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Sticky:[Carnyx] Sentry Drone Adjustments

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ashley Eoner 477	Posted - 2015.05.31 19:06:38 - [571] - Quote Maxi Dap wrote: I don't like these changes if that wasn't clear up until now..... but really the only bad thing here is the Garde nerf. The range on gardes is already less then reasonable. With 3 drone range modules on the Ishtar with perfect skills it has a 50km optimal, and at the same time that means that the speed and tank is not in the ranges that people complain about. The problem is the long range sentries, warden goes up to 125km and bouncers hit to 77 in optimal. If those ranges would be brought down to below 60km with 30km falloff tops, it would help with all the issues that people are having in pvp without gimping pve boats to hell and back. That would keep me smiling. No the real issue is the Ishtar and my evidence is this entire thread. Even the fellow advocating removing sentry drones completely is really just ranting against the Ishtar. Someone's tiericide of the ishtar didn't go right and CCP was warned when the changes were announced. Typical CCP they ignored the warnings and pushed on with the release (past examples supers titans etc). Now instead of fixing the broken hull CCP does it's typical thing and tries to nerf the hull's chosen weapon to the point that other hulls using the same weapon system become semi worthless. Then later on CCP will get around to nerfing the actual ishtar at a later time. Much like the tengu and many other nerfs we've seen over the last decade.
Fergus Runkle Truth and Reconciliation Council 57	Posted - 2015.05.31 20:04:01 - [572] - Quote Isn't the real issue the Drone Damage Amps? Drone ships were not (that I remember) classed as OP before the introduction of those modules. But their bonus's were setup to give them a good and competitive damage output without DDA's because they (the DDA's) did not exist at the time. Since the DDA's arrive we have seen use of drone ships spike. Are the DDA's more trouble than they are worth?
James Baboli Ferrous Infernum 822	Posted - 2015.05.31 21:14:51 - [573] - Quote Fergus Runkle wrote: Isn't the real issue the Drone Damage Amps? Drone ships were not (that I remember) classed as OP before the introduction of those modules. But their bonus's were setup to give them a good and competitive damage output without DDA's because they (the DDA's) did not exist at the time. Since the DDA's arrive we have seen use of drone ships spike. Are the DDA's more trouble than they are worth? Also omni tracking enhancers and the rest of the massive expansion of options for drones. Personally, I think that if you pulled a nerf to omni tracking modules such that they are 50% as effective, drones would be closer to properly balanced, as the issue if a combination of excess projection and high DPS. Talking more, Flying crazier, And drinking more Making battleships worth the warp
ashley Eoner 477	Posted - 2015.05.31 21:59:12 - [574] - Quote James Baboli wrote: Fergus Runkle wrote: Isn't the real issue the Drone Damage Amps? Drone ships were not (that I remember) classed as OP before the introduction of those modules. But their bonus's were setup to give them a good and competitive damage output without DDA's because they (the DDA's) did not exist at the time. Since the DDA's arrive we have seen use of drone ships spike. Are the DDA's more trouble than they are worth? Also omni tracking enhancers and the rest of the massive expansion of options for drones. Personally, I think that if you pulled a nerf to omni tracking modules such that they are 50% as effective, drones would be closer to properly balanced, as the issue if a combination of excess projection and high DPS. They already nerfed the crap out of omni tracking links. That's why faction links aren't worth it over t2 as there's only 1 point in percentage difference... Not to mention that CCP nerfed drones in anticipation of the modules being released. People have been whining that drones are OP since they were first introduced. It's the ishtar hull bonuses combined with the bandwidth to use 5 sentry drones that is the issue. On the vast majority of other hulls it's not even an issue as drones are in line with other battleship class weapons. It's always been silly to give a well tanked, small sig, fast cruiser battleship class weapons. That's why the rest of the HACs aren't using large turrets...
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1176	Posted - 2015.06.01 01:16:12 - [575] - Quote Fergus Runkle wrote: Isn't the real issue the Drone Damage Amps? Drone ships were not (that I remember) classed as OP before the introduction of those modules. But their bonus's were setup to give them a good and competitive damage output without DDA's because they (the DDA's) did not exist at the time. Since the DDA's arrive we have seen use of drone ships spike. Are the DDA's more trouble than they are worth? that is the key tipping point Tech 3's need to be multi-role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists. ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist, nerf sentries, -3 slots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster eagle worth using
StuRyan Space Mutts Dramatic Exit. 56	Posted - 2015.06.01 01:41:20 - [576] - Quote Still the problem I see is that if you train your character to be a specialist drone boat pilot with sentries, good on you. I'd prefer to see sentries have a penalty such as +50% to ship signature which is reduced per level of a skill Sentry stabilization or something silly. I've never had an issue with the AoE titan, drone balls, SC's and Carriers, sub cap dreads etc. If you change one bottleneck you create another somewhere else and really CCP should be looking more into trying to influence the players as apposed to taking the easy route 99 times out of 100 to fix something that has been created through time, effort and a lot of practice. Ishtar drone PVP fits work because time as been spent perfecting it. I am really dissapointed the CSM can't see past their own agenda at times.
Kinete Jenius Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 27	Posted - 2015.06.01 04:57:09 - [577] - Quote James Baboli wrote: Fergus Runkle wrote: Isn't the real issue the Drone Damage Amps? Drone ships were not (that I remember) classed as OP before the introduction of those modules. But their bonus's were setup to give them a good and competitive damage output without DDA's because they (the DDA's) did not exist at the time. Since the DDA's arrive we have seen use of drone ships spike. Are the DDA's more trouble than they are worth? Also omni tracking enhancers and the rest of the massive expansion of options for drones. Personally, I think that if you pulled a nerf to omni tracking modules such that they are 50% as effective, drones would be closer to properly balanced, as the issue if a combination of excess projection and high DPS. Well having used a variety of ships and doctrines running vanguards over the last +2.5 years I'd like to share some of my experiences of turrets vs drone boats. First off I'd like to note that the incursion community I commonly see James in is Warp To Me and they don't allow drone damaged based boats. They do allow some drone boats but they have to rely on turrets for most of the dps output. WTM's reasoning is that turreted ships apply superior DPS in a superior manner (according to them and James). James personally argued against me bringing a drone DPS heavy boat because drones were inferior dps. So I am quite amused to see James is here declaring that drone dps suddenly now has an "excess of projection and high dps". Second off I've ran two battleships in my fleet that had tracking based bonuses (nightmare and dominix). Since gardes are supposed to be the short ranged drone it's not fair to compare it to tachyons. So lets do a quick comparison of a garde II equipped VG domi vs a mega pulse laser equiped NM. All skills V with no implants 4x dda vs 4x heat sink Megapulsemare with imperial multifrequency and 2x TC tracking scripts = .095 tracking 971 dps (1116 overheat) conflag is .067 tracking 1083 dps (1246 overheat) Dominix with garde IIs and 2x tracking scripts hits .081 tracking 748 dps At range scorchmare with 2x tc tracking and 1x optimal = .071 tracking with 50.7 km optimal 774 dps (890 Overheat) Domi with garde Iis and 2x tracking with 1x optimal = .081 tracking with 47.4 km optimal 748 dps What do we see here? When comparing drone boat vs turret boat in a semi apples to apples comparison we see that drones themselves aren't terribly out of whack. What is interesting is once you add in implants the drone boat sees NO improvement in dps while the turreted ship sees massive improvements in DPS. Suddenly up close numbers for the Nightmare changes to .101 tracking with 1095 dps (1259 overheat) conflag becomes .071 at 1222 dps (1405 overheat) At ranged values for the scorchmare changes to .076 tracking with 873 dps (1004 overheat) Now if you compare garde II capability on a non tracking/range bonused hull then things go south quickly for drones. SO basically in short it seems the only time gardes are competitive is when using one of two hulls. One of those hulls of course is the ishtar which people spent the entire thread complaining about and which never actually uses gardes. I'm too lazy to go through and do the math for the other sentry drones.
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 746	Posted - 2015.06.01 07:29:44 - [578] - Quote Yes, people got their panties all twisted because someone realized drone assist actually works, and drones got some equipment so that drone boats had similar options to turret boats. What's sad is that there is still much love needed to drones to make them far less painful to wrangle to the drone user. Yet here we are getting the Devs to nerf drones back into third class citizen status. People will always complain about whatever is killing them. Sentries do present challenges that don't fit neatly into the box that most PvP pilots want to fly in. They are in no way over powered.
James Baboli Ferrous Infernum 823	Posted - 2015.06.01 07:30:54 - [579] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Yes, people got their panties all twisted because someone realized drone assist actually works, and drones got some equipment so that drone boats had similar options to turret boats. What's sad is that there is still much love needed to drones to make them far less painful to wrangle to the drone user. Yet here we are getting the Devs to nerf drones back into third class citizen status. People will always complain about whatever is killing them. Sentries do present challenges that don't fit neatly into the box that most PvP pilots want to fly in. They are in no way over powered. So, how do you counter massed ishtars, with no more than 150% the cost? Talking more, Flying crazier, And drinking more Making battleships worth the warp
Kinete Jenius Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 28	Posted - 2015.06.01 07:32:59 - [580] - Quote James Baboli wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: Yes, people got their panties all twisted because someone realized drone assist actually works, and drones got some equipment so that drone boats had similar options to turret boats. What's sad is that there is still much love needed to drones to make them far less painful to wrangle to the drone user. Yet here we are getting the Devs to nerf drones back into third class citizen status. People will always complain about whatever is killing them. Sentries do present challenges that don't fit neatly into the box that most PvP pilots want to fly in. They are in no way over powered. So, how do you counter massed ishtars, with no more than 150% the cost? I would nerf the ishtar into line with the other HACs.. Then I'd take bets around the office as to what will be the replacement target for all the rage.

afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1322	Posted - 2015.06.01 07:57:29 - [581] - Quote They might be - I lean towards probably not - but with the state of certain hulls it isn't possible to tell for sure. My biggest problem with the drone ships as a whole is that the fittings are far too generous. For example sitting large long range guns on any other battleship pretty much takes all the grid and/or needs fitting mods. Drone ships can stick in long range drones and have 100% of grid left for tank/neuts. There are so many ways to correct this - but we'll need to wait on CCP looking at it.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1322	Posted - 2015.06.01 08:35:12 - [582] - Quote James Baboli wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: Yes, people got their panties all twisted because someone realized drone assist actually works, and drones got some equipment so that drone boats had similar options to turret boats. What's sad is that there is still much love needed to drones to make them far less painful to wrangle to the drone user. Yet here we are getting the Devs to nerf drones back into third class citizen status. People will always complain about whatever is killing them. Sentries do present challenges that don't fit neatly into the box that most PvP pilots want to fly in. They are in no way over powered. So, how do you counter massed ishtars, with no more than 150% the cost? Well...I was going to say if they gave cerbs omni damage instead of the super-flavour kinetic lock - they'd stand a shot at long ranges. But they would also need double rigors or lose the applied damage war (no rigors means 45.7% application, rigors are 61.9%) hilariously thus giving the ishtar 14% more EHP available. Of course even WITH rigors the bloated caldari sig means they STILL lose the damage applied war, just not quite as badly. Worse still, if skirmish links are on both sides, the ishtars still do more damage across a wide breadth of range. And that's MWD ishtars, AB is much, much worse. So not even cerbs altered to be able to do omni damage could remotely compete. Perhaps cerbs with omni damage and double rigor II bonuses baked into the hulls.... Goes to show just how far out there ishtars currently are, really. The power creep needed to bring other HACs up is stupid. So damned stupid it demonstrates just how hard a nerf these goddamned hulls really need. The make the old Drake look like a a kestrel.
Kinete Jenius Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 28	Posted - 2015.06.01 08:41:15 - [583] - Quote afkalt wrote: They might be - I lean towards probably not - but with the state of certain hulls it isn't possible to tell for sure. My biggest problem with the drone ships as a whole is that the fittings are far too generous. For example sitting large long range guns on any other battleship pretty much takes all the grid and/or needs fitting mods. Drone ships can stick in long range drones and have 100% of grid left for tank/neuts. There are so many ways to correct this - but we'll need to wait on CCP looking at it. Well see the problem is you're not looking at the entire picture. Sure you can fit the drones easier but you're unable to overheat them or use implants to increase effectiveness. Your dps is also left hanging out in the open to be shot off the field (which in some situations can be a positive). What you're stating is one of the positives that helps to counter the negatives. EDIT : I have no issues fitting large long range guns on most of my fits without fitting mods. So I'm curious what you're trying to do that requires fitting mods.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1322	Posted - 2015.06.01 09:08:12 - [584] - Quote Tachs, 1400s and a tank are a total bastard to fit save the odd pirate boat. Tell you what, find me a ship and fit which can lay a similar amount of applied damage (remember ishtar resist profile means hybrids are out) down to ishtars at...say bouncer & curator ranges. Preferably something not onerously expensive for fleet war. Double bonus points if it is a HAC. Closest I can get is a scorch pulse apoc, but ishtars can drop drones and scurry out of their range whilst the drones keep shooting. Also when resists are factored in, there's very little between them - this latest nerf to the drones will make it slightly more viable though. Beams don't work because sniping is a joke thanks to probing. PvE is different because rats are stupid and the disadvantage of destroyable drones fades quickly in fleet warfare - ever tried killing a couple of hundred sentries...?
Kinete Jenius Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 28	Posted - 2015.06.01 09:51:16 - [585] - Quote afkalt wrote: Tachs, 1400s and a tank are a total bastard to fit save the odd pirate boat. Tell you what, find me a ship and fit which can lay a similar amount of applied damage (remember ishtar resist profile means hybrids are out) down to ishtars at...say bouncer & curator ranges. Preferably something not onerously expensive for fleet war. Double bonus points if it is a HAC. Closest I can get is a scorch pulse apoc, but ishtars can drop drones and scurry out of their range whilst the drones keep shooting. Also when resists are factored in, there's very little between them - this latest nerf to the drones will make it slightly more viable though. Beams don't work because sniping is a joke thanks to probing. PvE is different because rats are stupid and the disadvantage of destroyable drones fades quickly in fleet warfare - ever tried killing a couple of hundred sentries...? Are you trying to fit those with a double plate fit? I've already said the ishtar needs nerfed. Pretty indicative that I have no answer to your request about finding a ship and fit. I've never tried to kill 100 sentries in one sitting but I have had to kill 5 or so at a time. So it's clear you're talking from the perspective of a medium to large fleet pilot. As a solo and small fleet person I see things a bit differently these days. I actually dig the ishtar for doing stuff in "dangerous" areas.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1322	Posted - 2015.06.01 10:29:13 - [586] - Quote With everything else empty 8 tachs uses 26726.4/26250 grid on an apoc/baddon. Already 2% over. 1400 arty on a mael uses 25740/26250 leaving you 510 for everything else. 425 rails are kinder, but then gallente is the master race
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 746	Posted - 2015.06.01 10:56:16 - [587] - Quote afkalt wrote: Tachs, 1400s and a tank are a total bastard to fit save the odd pirate boat. Tell you what, find me a ship and fit which can lay a similar amount of applied damage (remember ishtar resist profile means hybrids are out) down to ishtars at...say bouncer & curator ranges. Preferably something not onerously expensive for fleet war. Double bonus points if it is a HAC. Closest I can get is a scorch pulse apoc, but ishtars can drop drones and scurry out of their range whilst the drones keep shooting. Also when resists are factored in, there's very little between them - this latest nerf to the drones will make it slightly more viable though. Beams don't work because sniping is a joke thanks to probing. PvE is different because rats are stupid and the disadvantage of destroyable drones fades quickly in fleet warfare - ever tried killing a couple of hundred sentries...? Here is where I have to point out it's a tactical problem. Sniping is a joke because of probing? How are they warping to you with sentries out? How are they instantly deploying sentries in a dispersed pattern after warping to you while tackling so you don't just microjump or warp away? Every post I see seems to assume More enemies than allies (change your tactics), flying into a prepared battlefield of dispersed drones that can't be bombed (are you trying to lose?), insisting on ships using short range weapons for the higher dps, and then complaining that you are being kitted(duh)by ships that have a limited sphere of engagement as if you had nothing different you could do. Stop engaging the Ishtar. It's harmless if you kill the sentries which just are not that tough. If you are being kitted in scrambler range maybe it's time to look at flying a different way. The reason the Ishtar is so tough is because it's forcing a change in how battles are fought. The tactics that will work against them mean you will lose against traditional setups. It's kinda like rock paper scissors, instead of rock, bigger rock, yet more rocks.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1322	Posted - 2015.06.01 11:35:21 - [588] - Quote And every 'counter' I've seen has been from people who have clearly not done battle with these ships over strategic assets. Disengaging is NEVER an option. Stop engaging the ship indeed, like that's an option in a POS fight. It's frankly pretty offensive to suggest that the entire Eve player base who actually fight these things over assets are too stupid or lazy to get a counter. The fact people think sniping is viable is hilarious. You have bubbles all over you before you know what's going on, then you're going nowhere. Also abandoning and dropping more sentries is a thing. But yeah by all mean keep deluding yourselves that the entire player base except you, the sun tzu of Eve, can't figure out the obvious counter.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2015.06.01 13:09:19 - [589] - Quote Obidiah Kane wrote: I learn the Ishtar then... I learn the Loki then... I learn the Svipul then... I learn the Domi then... you are nerfing a lot of ships that new players set as desire targets...is there anyway you could advise us of your rebalance timetable in advance? ie. if you had told me end of last year the Ishtar and Domi I had been training toward (with my PVE toon) were going to have their balls cut off I would have gone Amarr/ Caldari like everyone else, and not wasted months of sub training 'meh' skills I thought were 'Wooo!' skills. :( Sorry, just grumpy, everything seems to devalue after I have learnt it. The loki got nerfed In what way?
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 680	Posted - 2015.06.01 15:21:09 - [590] - Quote afkalt wrote: ....Tell you what, find me a ship and fit which can lay a similar amount of applied damage (remember ishtar resist profile means hybrids are out) down to ishtars at...say bouncer & curator ranges. Preferably something not onerously expensive for fleet war. Double bonus points if it is a HAC.... Heavy beam Zealot with logi, do I win now? Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!

James Baboli Ferrous Infernum 826	Posted - 2015.06.01 15:27:05 - [591] - Quote elitatwo wrote: afkalt wrote: ....Tell you what, find me a ship and fit which can lay a similar amount of applied damage (remember ishtar resist profile means hybrids are out) down to ishtars at...say bouncer & curator ranges. Preferably something not onerously expensive for fleet war. Double bonus points if it is a HAC.... Heavy beam Zealot with logi, do I win now? H. Beam zealot comes medium close. Every fit I found for it that matched damage and range either had cap or tank issues though. Talking more, Flying crazier, And drinking more Making battleships worth the warp
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 453	Posted - 2015.06.01 16:20:29 - [592] - Quote ashley Eoner wrote: Mr Mac wrote: Amanda MonteCarlo wrote: Couple of fun facts about drones - current stats compared to other weapon systems - no skill bonuses applied. Tracking: bouncer - 0.019 1400's - 0.009 curator - 0.028 tachyon beam - 0.014 warden - 0.012 425 rail - 0.01 Yup 2x the tracking than large guns (except wardens) - maybe more tracking nerfs are required? Damage: 0 lvl skills, faction medium range ammo(you need it to have similiar range as drones). bouncer - 24dps - 36+54km range 1400's with titanium sabot - 13dps - 48+35km range Tachyon with standard - 16dps - 53+20km range Curator - 26dps - 42+12km range 425 rail with lead- 14dps - 58+24km range Warden - 22dps - 60+42km range Eve if you count hat domi has 7.5 effective drones vs 8-10 effective turrets of battleships the damage at range is way better for drones boats. Maybe DPS should be decreased a bit more. Also projectiles suck, AC's need more range - barrage would be ok-ish if it had +100% fallof and selectable damage, and arty can't fit on anything. Then make all weapon hardpoints destroyable. Lock a turret/launcher then destroy and see what will happen later. Drones very fragile I find it interesting that Amanda is comparing t2 sentry drones against guns using t1 ammo. Thus negating most of the benefits of using t2 turrets. Use T2 ammo and tracking halved on turrets. Thanks for the laugh! I welcome these changes, even though I have 13 Rattlesnakes hulls unsold. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1322	Posted - 2015.06.01 16:23:41 - [593] - Quote James Baboli wrote: elitatwo wrote: afkalt wrote: ....Tell you what, find me a ship and fit which can lay a similar amount of applied damage (remember ishtar resist profile means hybrids are out) down to ishtars at...say bouncer & curator ranges. Preferably something not onerously expensive for fleet war. Double bonus points if it is a HAC.... Heavy beam Zealot with logi, do I win now? H. Beam zealot comes medium close. Every fit I found for it that matched damage and range either had cap or tank issues though. And get dunked hard when Ishtars bum rush them and drop curators. The zealots evaporated when we did this.
Wolfensrevenge Black Aces Against ALL Authorities 4	Posted - 2015.06.01 16:51:18 - [594] - Quote Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: Ishtar still not fixed by this. Xaxaxa Agreed as long as you can drop sentrys on field and then burn 150km away this issue will continue. But rather than fix control range they just nurf it until its a worthless ship.
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 746	Posted - 2015.06.01 17:06:30 - [595] - Quote afkalt wrote: And every 'counter' I've seen has been from people who have clearly not done battle with these ships over strategic assets. Disengaging is NEVER an option. Stop engaging the ship indeed, like that's an option in a POS fight. It's frankly pretty offensive to suggest that the entire Eve player base who actually fight these things over assets are too stupid or lazy to get a counter. The fact people think sniping is viable is hilarious. You have bubbles all over you before you know what's going on, then you're going nowhere. Also abandoning and dropping more sentries is a thing. But yeah by all mean keep deluding yourselves that the entire player base, except you the sun tzu of Eve, can't figure out the "obvious" counters. Edit: Ishtars DO have counters, however without exception those counters are so contrived and/or require so many more people that it's is simpler and more effective to simply....pilot ishtars and more logi. Yet you can use their attack on a strategic objective to your advantage. You don't have to fly into their engagement envelope, there are ships that outrange it. If you are forcing the Ishtars to move from where they set up, you are depleting a very limited resource. I'm not claiming to be the Sun Tzu of EVE. I just have difficulty accepting that a little extra tracking on a sentry drone turns it from a joke to overpowered, and that the only options for drones are to either reduce them to near uselessness or make them broken strong. Every encounter against Ishtars I hear is claiming that they are doing several things simultaneously that are mutually exclusive. Some of that is allowed for in the nature of Sentry drones, and some is not. For one, I don't see as how targeting the sentries themselves can be totally off the table. That Ishtar may have 90% Kin resist, but sure as heck the drones don't. As far as I recall, you can microjump in bubbles. You also don't have to equip your whole fleet with the same weapons. It gets more ridiculous the more people you assume are defending the POS. Ishtar is a one trick pony and if you fight it outside it's comfort zone it will lose. Regardless... If the problem is the Ishtar, deal with that. Don't cripple the weapon system so that it only works on the one ship everyone is complaining about.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1323	Posted - 2015.06.01 17:49:02 - [596] - Quote But it's not just tracking. It's tracking, effective range, tank, speed, resist profile. It has it ALL and in a single fit to boot. I said on page 1, that the problem sits in hulls. I stand by that. There may be problems beyond this with sentries but we can't tell because of the noise from the bonused hulls. The Ishtar remains an overpowered monster on steroids compared to all the peer groups. All the theory is lovely, but their on field performance and the go to ship for just about everything tells a different story. They are far too good at far too much at the same time. Go look at the likes of gorgon empire, they use them properly.
Syn Shi School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 176	Posted - 2015.06.01 17:51:34 - [597] - Quote Last night on Fintarue's stream people were complaining that light drones were OP because instead of shooting the drones that were on top of them they chose to chase the Tristan that was kiting them from 120km away.
ashley Eoner 478	Posted - 2015.06.01 19:07:45 - [598] - Quote GankYou wrote: Use T2 ammo and tracking is decreased even further on turrets. Thanks for the laugh! I welcome these changes, even though I have 13 Rattlesnakes hulls unsold. On some weapon systems there's a minor decrease in tracking. What makes me laugh is you're ignoring the post showing gardes have inferior stats when compared to other similar ranged turrets.
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 454	Posted - 2015.06.01 20:42:14 - [599] - Quote "Minor increase". People don't seem to play the game, and when they do they play in Ishtars, Gilas, Rattlesnakes. Drones are the new missiles, but only for brain-dead PvP. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
Electra Magnetic Old Spice Syndicate Intrepid Crossing 24	Posted - 2015.06.01 21:33:20 - [600] - Quote This should have been thought out more. Nerfing an entire weapon system because of imbalance caused by one hull is backwards logic. There is nothing wrong with sentry drones. You take the additional risk to have your guns outside your ship vulnerable to bombs, smartbombs, and other ships, you should be rewarded for that risk with a benefit such as the extra damage they offer. What happened to the CCP that was like "risk reward". Now you are taking the reward away and leaving only risk to the pilots that use this weapon system. stupid. Fine, fix the ishtar by removing some bandwidth or drone capacity, but don't make all the other hulls that use sentries useless because you nerfed the range, tracking, and damage of their weapons of choice. Its not like new pilots cannot train them. If someone told me that missiles would get a 20% range nerf and have a 50% chance of missing, I wouldnt bother training them and using them either.



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