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Debaro Zeir
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Posted - 2006.11.23 12:38:00 -
[1]
You can't lost all you have when you piloting war ships. Course you have insurance. You can't lost all when you are mining, corse you have insuranse. But you can lost all when you trading.
I'm have now this experience and just want to tell you about, seems that will be useful for beginner traders.
You can lost all everywhere when you trading. Noone can protect your cargo. Nor your corp, CONCORD or your gang. Coruse you are at "High security" system.
My Badger Mark II was destroyed in Kisogo system (SECURITI LEVEL 1.0). Higest security level system. Atacker was destroyed by CONCORD but I lost goods ~400 mils ISK. That was almost ALL my money, I made for 1.5 month of trading. That is equalent for 3 month TimeCode. I spent many many hours flying from one system to another. From one to another. And always was flying at "high sec" systems. And lost it all at once in 1.0 system.
How that can be?
Lets see a CONCORD letter:
2006.11.23 09:18
-----------------------
Victim: *******
Alliance: NONE
Corp: State War Academy
Destroyed: Badger Mark II
System: Kisogo
Security: 1.0
Involved parties:
Name: Nurpicles (laid the final blow)
Security: 1.5
Alliance: GoonSwarm
Corp: GoonFleet
Ship: Raven
Weapon: Bane Torpedo
Destroyed items:
Nanofiber Internal Structure I
Giant Secure Container (Cargo)
Nocxium, Qty: 89305
Nocxium, Qty: 300695
Nanofiber Internal Structure I
Giant Secure Container (Cargo)
Nocxium, Qty: 390000
-----------
This must be a day when I made first good money using my existing money. But instead I lost them all. That was my tool to produce new ISKs. When you loosing ship you can buy some lower ship by insurance payment. When you lost goods you can't do anything. Fu****g life.
Attackers just fit:
1. Some t1 torpedo lauchers
2. Target painter
3. Some shield extenders/damage controls
4. Warp scrambler
5. Passive targeter.
Them lost:
1. 20 mils for insurance payment.
2. 5-10 mils for t1 fitting
3. 0.5 security status
You can't evade possible destroying in ANY place in the game. If you have trading using industrial. Every industrial with 100mils+ cargo is potential victim.
Keep in mind - THERE IS NO SAFE SYSTEMS. Keep in mind everytime. There is no method to evade this.
If you have 500+ mils cargo and good fitting your industrial them just can lost 2 ships and get your cargo.
Every player can destroy up to 4 ship in "highsec" 80 mils to lost vs possiblitty to get 200-500mils - good enought? If you have more ss you can make this numbers 160 vs 400-1 bil and more.
--------------------
Just remember - there is no safe systems when you trading. To trade safe you need spent here 4 month and use transport ships.
P.S. if you willing to help me to reimburse some lost money I'm accept donations. I'm do not need much of money just 100-150mils to restore my business. If you will donate me even 1 isk - I'll feel less sad about my loose. Thank you and good luck.
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Debaro Zeir
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Posted - 2006.11.23 12:41:00 -
[2]
Sorry I was posted this message by alt char, cousre do not want to be potential target for pirate alliances such as GoonSwarm
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Robert Dobbs
Church Of The Subgenius
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Posted - 2006.11.23 12:42:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Robert Dobbs on 23/11/2006 12:43:27
Everyone's out to get you. If I have a chance to kill you and get your stuff, I will.
Deal with it. Protect yourself. You are 100% safe nowhere!
This isn't World of Warcraft.
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Listen to BoB Radio!! |
Mirasta
Caldari
Enigma Enterprises
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.23 12:44:00 -
[4]
Shame on you goon fleet, killing this guys bussiness.
No where is safe, it says it in the tutorial. You have become a victem of 'Eggs in one basket' syndrome.
Of couse, You are now reading my sig. |
radiogaga
Caldari
Thundercats
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Posted - 2006.11.23 12:44:00 -
[5]
and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !!
if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it
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Sendraks
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.23 12:45:00 -
[6]
You're telling us what all eve players should already know.
YOu can be attacked anywhere at any time.
This is common knowledge, it should not come as a surprise to you or anyone else about the possibility of being attacked in high sec.
If you're moving large amounts of valuable cargo around, fit your ship accordingly and take proper precautions or fly a more durable ship and take proper precautions.
Next time be more careful and don't put all your eggs in one basket.
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Marsha11
Bad Karma.
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Posted - 2006.11.23 12:47:00 -
[7]
Shame i wasn't there i would have killed you too.
If i get any smack or any hate mail from people i gank then this is my standard response. I swear by this rule when i play eve and so does the rest of my corp.
'Do not fly what you cant afford to loose'
That applies to any system in game...
I hope you have learned a valueble lesson and that you recover from your loss...
End 
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Marsha11
Bad Karma.
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Posted - 2006.11.23 12:50:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Raquel Smith
Cue the "Blame the victim" bullshiat.
Who is at fault then?
The ganker was an opportunist and he took advantage of an oportunity the same as anyone would in his situation.
The gank appears to have been well executed and Kudos for a successful haul.
There are a million things you can do to stop hauler gankers, but im not telling because i would put myself out of business. 
End
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Debaro Zeir
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Posted - 2006.11.23 12:50:00 -
[9]
Originally by: radiogaga
and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !!
if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it
I can't operate transport yet. So I can't be a trader first 4 month o gaming. Now I'm know that.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Boryokudan Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.11.23 12:52:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 23/11/2006 12:52:28
How does a 3 month old character earn 600M ISKs?
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Boryokudan Recruitment.
Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! |
James Snowscoran
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.23 12:53:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Debaro Zeir
Originally by: radiogaga
and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !!
if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it
I can't operate transport yet. So I can't be a trader first 4 month o gaming. Now I'm know that.
Of course you can. But did you expect it to be risk free?
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Debaro Zeir
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Posted - 2006.11.23 12:54:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Marsha11
Shame i wasn't there i would have killed you too.
'Do not fly what you cant afford to loose'
That applies to any system in game...
Eve just not friendly for traders. I can't protect my cargo by NPC or PC escort, can't insure it etc.
Fighter will never loose all course it always have insurance.
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Saldun Zexu
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Posted - 2006.11.23 12:54:00 -
[13]
who said high-sec is safe to fly?
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Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.23 12:56:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Sakura Nihil on 23/11/2006 12:58:04
Originally by: Raquel Smith
Cue the "Blame the victim" bullshiat.
*warms up engine*...VROOOOOOM!
Let's think about this, OP...you put 400million isk worth of goods into something that costs HALF A MILLION ISK. Am I the only one that sees the lack of logic in this? Would you ship a diamond ring to your wife overseas in a plastic bag? OF COURSE NOT, you'd make sure what was carrying it would protect the value of the items that it would contain.
Not the best analogy, but it works - for crying out loud, tank your indy, or get a T2 one, or get a battleship to move extremely expensive things like that. This isn't the "ghetto" that lowsec is, for sure, but you think crime doesn't happen in the most secure areas in real life - no place is 100% safe, just safer.
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D'Mur Pilru
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Posted - 2006.11.23 12:57:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Marsha11
The ganker was an opportunist and he took advantage of an oportunity
No, he's not, he's a ganker. I'm not opposed or in favor off what he does, but let's atleast label them for what they are: gankers.
An opportunist takes chances when they happen to present themselves. For this ploy to work, you need to actively scan a cargo, and have a mate ready to scoop up the remainder. Premeditated crime this is called, not opportunity.
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Sendraks
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.23 13:00:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Debaro Zeir
[Eve just not friendly for traders.
Orly? Then why is it I've been able to move millions of ISK worth of stuff around for over a year now without problems? For the vast majority of people hauling and trading, its not a problem.
Originally by: Debaro Zeir
I can't protect my cargo by NPC or PC escort, can't insure it etc.
Of course you can protect it.
1) fit your ship accordingly to guard against attacks.
2) Use instas
3) Avoid high sec piracy hot spots
4) Use a scout to check for possible pirates.
Originally by: Debaro ZeirFighter will never loose all course it always have insurance.[/quote
It was broadly agreed in another thread of this type that people should not get insurance payouts for ships lost to concord. This is something that CCP definitely should implement.
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Debaro Zeir
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Posted - 2006.11.23 13:00:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 23/11/2006 12:52:28
How does a 3 month old character earn 600M ISKs?
That char is 2 month and 20+ days old character
I'm spent REALLY much time to get this isks. I'm was trading and gaming not 1 hour a day. If you interested I got luck with a local hull conversion cargo at mission and some less rare items. So that was start points - my first 70mils. But that was a luck. Everything other I was spent trading. Coruse I'm good trader.
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Debaro Zeir
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Posted - 2006.11.23 13:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sendraks
Originally by: Raquel Smith
Cue the "Blame the victim" bullshiat.
Its like a person taking a poorly fitted BS onto a level 4 mission and then promptly losing it to the NPC rats. Sure, the rats blew your ship up, but its your fault for not fitting it properly to survive their attacks.
Can you tell me good fitting for badger II? Main concept. Course there is very low PG.
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Sendraks
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.23 13:03:00 -
[19]
Originally by: D'Mur Pilru
An opportunist takes chances when they happen to present themselves. For this ploy to work, you need to actively scan a cargo, and have a mate ready to scoop up the remainder. Premeditated crime this is called, not opportunity.
You've contradicted yourself.
Yes, the setting up the piracy vessels is premeditated, but the act of destroying a poorly fitted T1 vessel hauling millions of ISK is opportunistic.
If there are no T1 vessels to destroy, there is no opportunity. The element of chance still very much exsists.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.23 13:04:00 -
[20]
Does this mean I have to stop moving Dread BPO's in a shuttle?
WTB Veldspar BPO
EVE-Files | EVE-Search | Monitor this Thread |
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PMolkenthin
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.23 13:04:00 -
[21]
Solution 1) Use an elite industrial, with hardeners if possible. These tough little bas**rds are rarely bother by suicide gankers.
Solution 2) If 1 is not an option, buy a set of instas (you wont need these soon) and use your alt to scout for you.
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Zantazar
Caldari
The Syndicate Inc
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.23 13:06:00 -
[22]
Debaro, I do sympathise, but in general, all these replies are correct in their content. You need to be very careful when hauling anything of any value ANYWHERE in Eve, even in 1.0 sec.
However, please ignore the insulting remarks that the usual crowd of smug players have thrown at you. You have learned two lessons I feel, one is never to do what you did in that manner again, and the other is not to expect a mature reply from the majority of players in these forums (unfortunately)
Regards, fly safe.
Signature removed due to incorrect size (400X120px and 24000 bytes). Please review the forum rules or e-mail us with any questions. You can view you signature here - Petwraith
I would sell my soul, my body, and my entire family for a Navy Raven. (Just kidding .... my soul is not for sale)
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D'Mur Pilru
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Posted - 2006.11.23 13:07:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sendraks
Originally by: D'Mur Pilru
An opportunist takes chances when they happen to present themselves. For this ploy to work, you need to actively scan a cargo, and have a mate ready to scoop up the remainder. Premeditated crime this is called, not opportunity.
You've contradicted yourself.
Yes, the setting up the piracy vessels is premeditated, but the act of destroying a poorly fitted T1 vessel hauling millions of ISK is opportunistic.
If there are no T1 vessels to destroy, there is no opportunity. The element of chance still very much exsists.
The fact that he set out to shoot a hauler makes this a predetermined. the fact that the opportunity then presents itself is detached from the notion predetermined/opportunistic.
If I set out to steal a car with a lockpick and pliers, the opportunity will hence present itself by default. If the opportunity were to never be present, the predetermination would be non-existant.
I'm not saying that the act is right or wrong, just that you don't have to make it out like the ganker just happened to pass by with his mate, accidently scanned the cargo, and took his shot. He set out to make that shot.
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Pottsey
Gallente
Acme Shipping Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.23 13:07:00 -
[24]
Should have taken a passive shield tank then chance's are you wouldnt have died.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Sendraks
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.23 13:07:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Debaro Zeir
Can you tell me good fitting for badger II? Main concept. Course there is very low PG.
Well, let me see.
Warp stabs, to stop you being scrambled would be a start. Perhaps some nanos to align faster (I noted you already had those). In your mid slots, shield hardners, shield boosters, shield extenders, basically anything that makes the ship a harder target. Or how about some ECMs? Caladari vessels are popular high sec piracy vessels, a racial ECM for those vessels would make it harder to destroy you. There is a great thread on the crime and punishment forum about using a Badger for piracy. Worth a read if you want to learn about the fitting possibilities for one of these vessels.
Of course you'll need the skills to fit everything properly, thats goes without saying. If you've not got the skills, then ask yourself whether you really should be moving 400million ISK worth of stuff around in the first place.
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Debaro Zeir
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Posted - 2006.11.23 13:10:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Zantazar
Debaro, I do sympathise, but in general, all these replies are correct in their content. You need to be very careful when hauling anything of any value ANYWHERE in Eve, even in 1.0 sec.
However, please ignore the insulting remarks that the usual crowd of smug players have thrown at you. You have learned two lessons I feel, one is never to do what you did in that manner again, and the other is not to expect a mature reply from the majority of players in these forums (unfortunately)
Regards, fly safe.
Thank you for warm words. :-)
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Peter Stuyvesant
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.11.23 13:10:00 -
[27]
Firstly, I'm sorry for your loss.
I have to say however that it was entirely avoidable. Did you have no idea that it was a possibility to be ganked in high-sec? If so, then I'm afraid you need to read the forums more:
15-page Thread from 2-3 weeks ago on this very subject.
All the information and tools are available to you but by your own will, you chose to ingore them and only come to the forums when something bad happened to you. There are ways of avoiding this sort of thing and its your own responsibility to keep yourself informed of possible dangers and threats to your ingame way of life.
Its a tough lesson to learn, and I hope you get back on your feet.
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James Snowscoran
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.23 13:11:00 -
[28]
Edited by: James Snowscoran on 23/11/2006 13:11:32
Originally by: Debaro Zeir
Originally by: Marsha11
Shame i wasn't there i would have killed you too.
'Do not fly what you cant afford to loose'
That applies to any system in game...
Eve just not friendly for traders. I can't protect my cargo by NPC or PC escort, can't insure it etc.
Fighter will never loose all course it always have insurance.
Actually, using the help of other players, you could have taken several steps to ensure the safety of your cargo:
1. Use a scout. Have him look out for suspicious hauler/battleship pairs lurking around high-traffic gates.
2. Use several haulers. If you had shipped 400 mill in 4 separate badger mark 2s, the ganker should only be able to pop one before concord nukes him.
3. Use an escort. A couple cruisers would have been able to protect you just fine- provided they are in the same corp as the hauler, they can guard the can that drops after a gank from getting scooped by a hostile hauler. Most highsec gankers would, faced with a hauler with escort, realize they can't make any money from popping it and let it pass.
-----
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Raquel Smith
Caldari
Ferengi Commerce Authority
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Posted - 2006.11.23 13:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Sendraks
Caladari vessels are popular high sec piracy vessels, a racial ECM for those vessels would make it harder to destroy you.
ECM is worthless when griefers use passive targeters and badger 2s take upwards of 45 seconds to target something.
The only thing to do is fit passive shield hardeners and shield extenders and hope for the best.
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James Snowscoran
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.23 13:11:00 -
[30]
Edited by: James Snowscoran on 23/11/2006 13:11:32
Originally by: Debaro Zeir
Originally by: Marsha11
Shame i wasn't there i would have killed you too.
'Do not fly what you cant afford to loose'
That applies to any system in game...
Eve just not friendly for traders. I can't protect my cargo by NPC or PC escort, can't insure it etc.
Fighter will never loose all course it always have insurance.
Actually, using the help of other players, you could have taken several steps to ensure the safety of your cargo:
1. Use a scout. Have him look out for suspicious hauler/battleship pairs lurking around high-traffic gates.
2. Use several haulers. If you had shipped 400 mill in 4 separate badger mark 2s, the ganker should only be able to pop one before concord nukes him.
3. Use an escort. A couple cruisers would have been able to protect you just fine- provided they are in the same corp as the hauler, they can guard the can that drops after a gank from getting scooped by a hostile hauler. Most highsec gankers would, faced with a hauler with escort, realize they can't make any money from popping it and let it pass.
-----
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