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Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:38:00 - [1] You can't lost all you have when you piloting war ships. Course you have insurance. You can't lost all when you are mining, corse you have insuranse. But you can lost all when you trading. I'm have now this experience and just want to tell you about, seems that will be useful for beginner traders. You can lost all everywhere when you trading. Noone can protect your cargo. Nor your corp, CONCORD or your gang. Coruse you are at "High security" system. My Badger Mark II was destroyed in Kisogo system (SECURITI LEVEL 1.0). Higest security level system. Atacker was destroyed by CONCORD but I lost goods ~400 mils ISK. That was almost ALL my money, I made for 1.5 month of trading. That is equalent for 3 month TimeCode. I spent many many hours flying from one system to another. From one to another. And always was flying at "high sec" systems. And lost it all at once in 1.0 system. How that can be? Lets see a CONCORD letter: 2006.11.23 09:18 ----------------------- Victim: ***** Alliance: NONE Corp: State War Academy Destroyed: Badger Mark II System: Kisogo Security: 1.0 Involved parties: Name: Nurpicles (laid the final blow) Security: 1.5 Alliance: GoonSwarm Corp: GoonFleet Ship: Raven Weapon: Bane Torpedo Destroyed items: Nanofiber Internal Structure I Giant Secure Container (Cargo) Nocxium, Qty: 89305 Nocxium, Qty: 300695 Nanofiber Internal Structure I Giant Secure Container (Cargo) Nocxium, Qty: 390000 ----------- This must be a day when I made first good money using my existing money. But instead I lost them all. That was my tool to produce new ISKs. When you loosing ship you can buy some lower ship by insurance payment. When you lost goods you can't do anything. Fu**g life. Attackers just fit: 1. Some t1 torpedo lauchers 2. Target painter 3. Some shield extenders/damage controls 4. Warp scrambler 5. Passive targeter. Them lost: 1. 20 mils for insurance payment. 2. 5-10 mils for t1 fitting 3. 0.5 security status You can't evade possible destroying in ANY place in the game. If you have trading using industrial. Every industrial with 100mils+ cargo is potential victim. Keep in mind - THERE IS NO SAFE SYSTEMS. Keep in mind everytime. There is no method to evade this. If you have 500+ mils cargo and good fitting your industrial them just can lost 2 ships and get your cargo. Every player can destroy up to 4 ship in "highsec" 80 mils to lost vs possiblitty to get 200-500mils - good enought? If you have more ss you can make this numbers 160 vs 400-1 bil and more. -------------------- Just remember - there is no safe systems when you trading. To trade safe you need spent here 4 month and use transport ships. P.S. if you willing to help me to reimburse some lost money I'm accept donations. I'm do not need much of money just 100-150mils to restore my business. If you will donate me even 1 isk - I'll feel less sad about my loose. Thank you and good luck.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:41:00 - [2] Sorry I was posted this message by alt char, cousre do not want to be potential target for pirate alliances such as GoonSwarm
Robert Dobbs Church Of The Subgenius	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:42:00 - [3] Edited by: Robert Dobbs on 23/11/2006 12:43:27 Everyone's out to get you. If I have a chance to kill you and get your stuff, I will. Deal with it. Protect yourself. You are 100% safe nowhere! This isn't World of Warcraft. - --------- Listen to BoB Radio!!
Mirasta Caldari Enigma Enterprises Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:44:00 - [4] Shame on you goon fleet, killing this guys bussiness. No where is safe, it says it in the tutorial. You have become a victem of 'Eggs in one basket' syndrome. Of couse, You are now reading my sig.
radiogaga Caldari Thundercats	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:44:00 - [5] and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:45:00 - [6] You're telling us what all eve players should already know. YOu can be attacked anywhere at any time. This is common knowledge, it should not come as a surprise to you or anyone else about the possibility of being attacked in high sec. If you're moving large amounts of valuable cargo around, fit your ship accordingly and take proper precautions or fly a more durable ship and take proper precautions. Next time be more careful and don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Marsha11 Bad Karma.	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:47:00 - [7] Shame i wasn't there i would have killed you too. If i get any smack or any hate mail from people i gank then this is my standard response. I swear by this rule when i play eve and so does the rest of my corp. 'Do not fly what you cant afford to loose' That applies to any system in game... I hope you have learned a valueble lesson and that you recover from your loss... End
Marsha11 Bad Karma.	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:50:00 - [8] Originally by: Raquel Smith Cue the "Blame the victim" bullshiat. Who is at fault then? The ganker was an opportunist and he took advantage of an oportunity the same as anyone would in his situation. The gank appears to have been well executed and Kudos for a successful haul. There are a million things you can do to stop hauler gankers, but im not telling because i would put myself out of business. End
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:50:00 - [9] Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it I can't operate transport yet. So I can't be a trader first 4 month o gaming. Now I'm know that.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:52:00 - [10] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 23/11/2006 12:52:28 How does a 3 month old character earn 600M ISKs? --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
James Snowscoran Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:53:00 - [11] Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it I can't operate transport yet. So I can't be a trader first 4 month o gaming. Now I'm know that. Of course you can. But did you expect it to be risk free? -----
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:54:00 - [12] Originally by: Marsha11 Shame i wasn't there i would have killed you too. 'Do not fly what you cant afford to loose' That applies to any system in game... Eve just not friendly for traders. I can't protect my cargo by NPC or PC escort, can't insure it etc. Fighter will never loose all course it always have insurance.
Saldun Zexu	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:54:00 - [13] who said high-sec is safe to fly?
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:56:00 - [14] Edited by: Sakura Nihil on 23/11/2006 12:58:04 Originally by: Raquel Smith Cue the "Blame the victim" bullshiat. warms up engine...VROOOOOOM! Let's think about this, OP...you put 400million isk worth of goods into something that costs HALF A MILLION ISK. Am I the only one that sees the lack of logic in this? Would you ship a diamond ring to your wife overseas in a plastic bag? OF COURSE NOT, you'd make sure what was carrying it would protect the value of the items that it would contain. Not the best analogy, but it works - for crying out loud, tank your indy, or get a T2 one, or get a battleship to move extremely expensive things like that. This isn't the "ghetto" that lowsec is, for sure, but you think crime doesn't happen in the most secure areas in real life - no place is 100% safe, just safer.
D'Mur Pilru	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Marsha11 The ganker was an opportunist and he took advantage of an oportunity No, he's not, he's a ganker. I'm not opposed or in favor off what he does, but let's atleast label them for what they are: gankers. An opportunist takes chances when they happen to present themselves. For this ploy to work, you need to actively scan a cargo, and have a mate ready to scoop up the remainder. Premeditated crime this is called, not opportunity.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:00:00 - [16] Originally by: Debaro Zeir [Eve just not friendly for traders. Orly? Then why is it I've been able to move millions of ISK worth of stuff around for over a year now without problems? For the vast majority of people hauling and trading, its not a problem. Originally by: Debaro Zeir I can't protect my cargo by NPC or PC escort, can't insure it etc. Of course you can protect it. 1) fit your ship accordingly to guard against attacks. 2) Use instas 3) Avoid high sec piracy hot spots 4) Use a scout to check for possible pirates. Originally by: Debaro ZeirFighter will never loose all course it always have insurance.[/quote It was broadly agreed in another thread of this type that people should not get insurance payouts for ships lost to concord. This is something that CCP definitely should implement.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:00:00 - [17] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 23/11/2006 12:52:28 How does a 3 month old character earn 600M ISKs? That char is 2 month and 20+ days old character I'm spent REALLY much time to get this isks. I'm was trading and gaming not 1 hour a day. If you interested I got luck with a local hull conversion cargo at mission and some less rare items. So that was start points - my first 70mils. But that was a luck. Everything other I was spent trading. Coruse I'm good trader.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:01:00 - [18] Originally by: Sendraks Originally by: Raquel Smith Cue the "Blame the victim" bullshiat. Its like a person taking a poorly fitted BS onto a level 4 mission and then promptly losing it to the NPC rats. Sure, the rats blew your ship up, but its your fault for not fitting it properly to survive their attacks. Can you tell me good fitting for badger II? Main concept. Course there is very low PG.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:03:00 - [19] Originally by: D'Mur Pilru An opportunist takes chances when they happen to present themselves. For this ploy to work, you need to actively scan a cargo, and have a mate ready to scoop up the remainder. Premeditated crime this is called, not opportunity. You've contradicted yourself. Yes, the setting up the piracy vessels is premeditated, but the act of destroying a poorly fitted T1 vessel hauling millions of ISK is opportunistic. If there are no T1 vessels to destroy, there is no opportunity. The element of chance still very much exsists.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:04:00 - [20] Does this mean I have to stop moving Dread BPO's in a shuttle? WTB Veldspar BPO EVE-Files \| EVE-Search \| Monitor this Thread

PMolkenthin Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:04:00 - [21] Solution 1) Use an elite industrial, with hardeners if possible. These tough little bas**rds are rarely bother by suicide gankers. Solution 2) If 1 is not an option, buy a set of instas (you wont need these soon) and use your alt to scout for you.
Zantazar Caldari The Syndicate Inc Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:06:00 - [22] Debaro, I do sympathise, but in general, all these replies are correct in their content. You need to be very careful when hauling anything of any value ANYWHERE in Eve, even in 1.0 sec. However, please ignore the insulting remarks that the usual crowd of smug players have thrown at you. You have learned two lessons I feel, one is never to do what you did in that manner again, and the other is not to expect a mature reply from the majority of players in these forums (unfortunately) Regards, fly safe. Signature removed due to incorrect size (400X120px and 24000 bytes). Please review the forum rules or e-mail us with any questions. You can view you signature here - Petwraith I would sell my soul, my body, and my entire family for a Navy Raven. (Just kidding .... my soul is not for sale)
D'Mur Pilru	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:07:00 - [23] Originally by: Sendraks Originally by: D'Mur Pilru An opportunist takes chances when they happen to present themselves. For this ploy to work, you need to actively scan a cargo, and have a mate ready to scoop up the remainder. Premeditated crime this is called, not opportunity. You've contradicted yourself. Yes, the setting up the piracy vessels is premeditated, but the act of destroying a poorly fitted T1 vessel hauling millions of ISK is opportunistic. If there are no T1 vessels to destroy, there is no opportunity. The element of chance still very much exsists. The fact that he set out to shoot a hauler makes this a predetermined. the fact that the opportunity then presents itself is detached from the notion predetermined/opportunistic. If I set out to steal a car with a lockpick and pliers, the opportunity will hence present itself by default. If the opportunity were to never be present, the predetermination would be non-existant. I'm not saying that the act is right or wrong, just that you don't have to make it out like the ganker just happened to pass by with his mate, accidently scanned the cargo, and took his shot. He set out to make that shot.
Pottsey Gallente Acme Shipping Inc	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:07:00 - [24] Should have taken a passive shield tank then chance's are you wouldnt have died. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Debaro Zeir Can you tell me good fitting for badger II? Main concept. Course there is very low PG. Well, let me see. Warp stabs, to stop you being scrambled would be a start. Perhaps some nanos to align faster (I noted you already had those). In your mid slots, shield hardners, shield boosters, shield extenders, basically anything that makes the ship a harder target. Or how about some ECMs? Caladari vessels are popular high sec piracy vessels, a racial ECM for those vessels would make it harder to destroy you. There is a great thread on the crime and punishment forum about using a Badger for piracy. Worth a read if you want to learn about the fitting possibilities for one of these vessels. Of course you'll need the skills to fit everything properly, thats goes without saying. If you've not got the skills, then ask yourself whether you really should be moving 400million ISK worth of stuff around in the first place.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:10:00 - [26] Originally by: Zantazar Debaro, I do sympathise, but in general, all these replies are correct in their content. You need to be very careful when hauling anything of any value ANYWHERE in Eve, even in 1.0 sec. However, please ignore the insulting remarks that the usual crowd of smug players have thrown at you. You have learned two lessons I feel, one is never to do what you did in that manner again, and the other is not to expect a mature reply from the majority of players in these forums (unfortunately) Regards, fly safe. Thank you for warm words. :-)
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:10:00 - [27] Firstly, I'm sorry for your loss. I have to say however that it was entirely avoidable. Did you have no idea that it was a possibility to be ganked in high-sec? If so, then I'm afraid you need to read the forums more: 15-page Thread from 2-3 weeks ago on this very subject. All the information and tools are available to you but by your own will, you chose to ingore them and only come to the forums when something bad happened to you. There are ways of avoiding this sort of thing and its your own responsibility to keep yourself informed of possible dangers and threats to your ingame way of life. Its a tough lesson to learn, and I hope you get back on your feet.
James Snowscoran Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:11:00 - [28] Edited by: James Snowscoran on 23/11/2006 13:11:32 Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: Marsha11 Shame i wasn't there i would have killed you too. 'Do not fly what you cant afford to loose' That applies to any system in game... Eve just not friendly for traders. I can't protect my cargo by NPC or PC escort, can't insure it etc. Fighter will never loose all course it always have insurance. Actually, using the help of other players, you could have taken several steps to ensure the safety of your cargo: 1. Use a scout. Have him look out for suspicious hauler/battleship pairs lurking around high-traffic gates. 2. Use several haulers. If you had shipped 400 mill in 4 separate badger mark 2s, the ganker should only be able to pop one before concord nukes him. 3. Use an escort. A couple cruisers would have been able to protect you just fine- provided they are in the same corp as the hauler, they can guard the can that drops after a gank from getting scooped by a hostile hauler. Most highsec gankers would, faced with a hauler with escort, realize they can't make any money from popping it and let it pass. -----
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:11:00 - [29] Originally by: Sendraks Caladari vessels are popular high sec piracy vessels, a racial ECM for those vessels would make it harder to destroy you. ECM is worthless when griefers use passive targeters and badger 2s take upwards of 45 seconds to target something. The only thing to do is fit passive shield hardeners and shield extenders and hope for the best.
James Snowscoran Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:11:00 - [30] Edited by: James Snowscoran on 23/11/2006 13:11:32 Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: Marsha11 Shame i wasn't there i would have killed you too. 'Do not fly what you cant afford to loose' That applies to any system in game... Eve just not friendly for traders. I can't protect my cargo by NPC or PC escort, can't insure it etc. Fighter will never loose all course it always have insurance. Actually, using the help of other players, you could have taken several steps to ensure the safety of your cargo: 1. Use a scout. Have him look out for suspicious hauler/battleship pairs lurking around high-traffic gates. 2. Use several haulers. If you had shipped 400 mill in 4 separate badger mark 2s, the ganker should only be able to pop one before concord nukes him. 3. Use an escort. A couple cruisers would have been able to protect you just fine- provided they are in the same corp as the hauler, they can guard the can that drops after a gank from getting scooped by a hostile hauler. Most highsec gankers would, faced with a hauler with escort, realize they can't make any money from popping it and let it pass. -----
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:12:00 - [31] Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant All the information and tools are available to you but by your own will, you chose to ingore them and only come to the forums when something bad happened to you. Reading this forum is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay.
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:12:00 - [32] Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant All the information and tools are available to you but by your own will, you chose to ingore them and only come to the forums when something bad happened to you. Reading this forum is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:13:00 - [33] Originally by: Raquel Smith Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant All the information and tools are available to you but by your own will, you chose to ingore them and only come to the forums when something bad happened to you. Reading this forum is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay. It can make a useful substitute for common sense for those lacking any, however. ---------- IBTL \o/ It's great being in ur forums mixing ur memes, ain't it?
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:13:00 - [34] Originally by: Raquel Smith Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant All the information and tools are available to you but by your own will, you chose to ingore them and only come to the forums when something bad happened to you. Reading this forum is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay. It can make a useful substitute for common sense for those lacking any, however. ---------- IBTL \o/ It's great being in ur forums mixing ur memes, ain't it?
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:13:00 - [35] Originally by: Raquel Smith Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant All the information and tools are available to you but by your own will, you chose to ingore them and only come to the forums when something bad happened to you. Reading this forum is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay. It can make a useful substitute for common sense for those lacking any, however. ---------- IBTL \o/ It's great being in ur forums mixing ur memes, ain't it?
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:14:00 - [36] Originally by: James Snowscoran 3. Use an escort. A couple cruisers would have been able to protect you just fine- provided they are in the same corp as the hauler, they can guard the can that drops after a gank from getting scooped by a hostile hauler. Most highsec gankers would, faced with a hauler with escort, realize they can't make any money from popping it and let it pass. Rubbish. By the time the cruisers have time to respond the lethal volley is in flight and it's too late except for helping out CONCORD. Guarding a can is pointless since a ship can align, loot, and instawarp to a station.
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:14:00 - [37] Originally by: James Snowscoran 3. Use an escort. A couple cruisers would have been able to protect you just fine- provided they are in the same corp as the hauler, they can guard the can that drops after a gank from getting scooped by a hostile hauler. Most highsec gankers would, faced with a hauler with escort, realize they can't make any money from popping it and let it pass. Rubbish. By the time the cruisers have time to respond the lethal volley is in flight and it's too late except for helping out CONCORD. Guarding a can is pointless since a ship can align, loot, and instawarp to a station.
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:14:00 - [38] Originally by: James Snowscoran 3. Use an escort. A couple cruisers would have been able to protect you just fine- provided they are in the same corp as the hauler, they can guard the can that drops after a gank from getting scooped by a hostile hauler. Most highsec gankers would, faced with a hauler with escort, realize they can't make any money from popping it and let it pass. Rubbish. By the time the cruisers have time to respond the lethal volley is in flight and it's too late except for helping out CONCORD. Guarding a can is pointless since a ship can align, loot, and instawarp to a station.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:15:00 - [39] Originally by: D'Mur Pilru The fact that he set out to shoot a hauler makes this a predetermined. the fact that the opportunity then presents itself is detached from the notion predetermined/opportunistic. Not at all. If people didn't fly around in T1 haulers with millions of ISK worth of stuff, there simply wouldn't be the opportunity. Originally by: D'Mur Pilru If I set out to steal a car with a lockpick and pliers, the opportunity will hence present itself by default. If the opportunity were to never be present, the predetermination would be non-existant. This comparison is not valid. What you're actually set out to do is to steal a car loaded with gold bullion. Not a security van, but a regular car loaded with stuff that far exceeds the value of the car itself. Originally by: D'Mur Pilru I'm not saying that the act is right or wrong, just that you don't have to make it out like the ganker just happened to pass by with his mate, accidently scanned the cargo, and took his shot. He set out to make that shot. He set out to make the shot, but could only make the shot should someone present them with the opportunity to do so. Because the whole basis of the operation is based on another player presenting the opportunity of a) flying a poorly fitted ship that is b) loaded with millions of ISK worth of cargo, it is opportunistic. There are no guarantees that any ship fitting those criteria will come through the gate. You could have the same set up that patrols a number of systems looking for a similar target. This is still opportunistic, but the act of patrolling those systems is still premeditated.
KingAc Minmatar North Star Networks	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:15:00 - [40] Only noobs drives stuff woth over 50mille isk in a tech 1 indy this days.
KingAc Minmatar North Star Networks	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:15:00 - [41] Only noobs drives stuff woth over 50mille isk in a tech 1 indy this days.
KingAc Minmatar North Star Networks	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:15:00 - [42] Only noobs drives stuff woth over 50mille isk in a tech 1 indy this days.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:15:00 - [43] Originally by: D'Mur Pilru The fact that he set out to shoot a hauler makes this a predetermined. the fact that the opportunity then presents itself is detached from the notion predetermined/opportunistic. Not at all. If people didn't fly around in T1 haulers with millions of ISK worth of stuff, there simply wouldn't be the opportunity. Originally by: D'Mur Pilru If I set out to steal a car with a lockpick and pliers, the opportunity will hence present itself by default. If the opportunity were to never be present, the predetermination would be non-existant. This comparison is not valid. What you're actually set out to do is to steal a car loaded with gold bullion. Not a security van, but a regular car loaded with stuff that far exceeds the value of the car itself. Originally by: D'Mur Pilru I'm not saying that the act is right or wrong, just that you don't have to make it out like the ganker just happened to pass by with his mate, accidently scanned the cargo, and took his shot. He set out to make that shot. He set out to make the shot, but could only make the shot should someone present them with the opportunity to do so. Because the whole basis of the operation is based on another player presenting the opportunity of a) flying a poorly fitted ship that is b) loaded with millions of ISK worth of cargo, it is opportunistic. There are no guarantees that any ship fitting those criteria will come through the gate. You could have the same set up that patrols a number of systems looking for a similar target. This is still opportunistic, but the act of patrolling those systems is still premeditated.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:15:00 - [44] Originally by: D'Mur Pilru The fact that he set out to shoot a hauler makes this a predetermined. the fact that the opportunity then presents itself is detached from the notion predetermined/opportunistic. Not at all. If people didn't fly around in T1 haulers with millions of ISK worth of stuff, there simply wouldn't be the opportunity. Originally by: D'Mur Pilru If I set out to steal a car with a lockpick and pliers, the opportunity will hence present itself by default. If the opportunity were to never be present, the predetermination would be non-existant. This comparison is not valid. What you're actually set out to do is to steal a car loaded with gold bullion. Not a security van, but a regular car loaded with stuff that far exceeds the value of the car itself. Originally by: D'Mur Pilru I'm not saying that the act is right or wrong, just that you don't have to make it out like the ganker just happened to pass by with his mate, accidently scanned the cargo, and took his shot. He set out to make that shot. He set out to make the shot, but could only make the shot should someone present them with the opportunity to do so. Because the whole basis of the operation is based on another player presenting the opportunity of a) flying a poorly fitted ship that is b) loaded with millions of ISK worth of cargo, it is opportunistic. There are no guarantees that any ship fitting those criteria will come through the gate. You could have the same set up that patrols a number of systems looking for a similar target. This is still opportunistic, but the act of patrolling those systems is still premeditated.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:17:00 - [45] Originally by: Raquel Smith ECM is worthless when griefers use passive targeters and badger 2s take upwards of 45 seconds to target something. The only thing to do is fit passive shield hardeners and shield extenders and hope for the best. I'm thinking about damage control system, course badger have more armor then shield. Warp stabs is useless, course industrials is very slow going to warp. So damage control + passive shield hardeners+shield booster/shield boost apmlifier?
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:17:00 - [46] Originally by: Raquel Smith ECM is worthless when griefers use passive targeters and badger 2s take upwards of 45 seconds to target something. The only thing to do is fit passive shield hardeners and shield extenders and hope for the best. I'm thinking about damage control system, course badger have more armor then shield. Warp stabs is useless, course industrials is very slow going to warp. So damage control + passive shield hardeners+shield booster/shield boost apmlifier?
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:17:00 - [47] Originally by: Raquel Smith ECM is worthless when griefers use passive targeters and badger 2s take upwards of 45 seconds to target something. The only thing to do is fit passive shield hardeners and shield extenders and hope for the best. I'm thinking about damage control system, course badger have more armor then shield. Warp stabs is useless, course industrials is very slow going to warp. So damage control + passive shield hardeners+shield booster/shield boost apmlifier?
Ortu Konsinni KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:18:00 - [48] Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it I can't operate transport yet. So I can't be a trader first 4 month o gaming. Now I'm know that. Just for the record... Skill requirements for Transport Ships: Industry V Racial Industrial V That's a month of training, maximum. That's a month during which you should not be at risk of losing hundreds of millions of ISK flying a tech 1 hauler, since, as a new player, you won't have the means to accrue those hundreds of millions of ISK worth of assets. Once you have the skills for transport ships, flying a freighter is an extra week away. With your transport ship, you can safely trade and make money to afford that freighter. Plus you're already Caldari -- the Bustard is an awesome ship and the Charon is the biggest freighter there is. I'm not saying all that to nag you, just pointing out that training for transport ships does not take 4 months and is very, very much worth it if you carry expensive stuff. I then expanded on that. I understand that you've suffered a heavy loss and that you would've preferred the above knowledge be imparted to you beforehand, but it can't be helped. Anyway, learn and adapt, some things in life are better learned through experience than theory. You'll be fine. Anyway, a good setup for a Badger involves shield hardeners (1 EM, 2 invuln fields for example), as many small or medium shield extenders as you can fit, maybe a 10MN Afterburner, but you should have instas anyway, so you shouldn't need the afterburner. --- High quality pics of ALL EVE ships!
Ortu Konsinni KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:18:00 - [49] Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it I can't operate transport yet. So I can't be a trader first 4 month o gaming. Now I'm know that. Just for the record... Skill requirements for Transport Ships: Industry V Racial Industrial V That's a month of training, maximum. That's a month during which you should not be at risk of losing hundreds of millions of ISK flying a tech 1 hauler, since, as a new player, you won't have the means to accrue those hundreds of millions of ISK worth of assets. Once you have the skills for transport ships, flying a freighter is an extra week away. With your transport ship, you can safely trade and make money to afford that freighter. Plus you're already Caldari -- the Bustard is an awesome ship and the Charon is the biggest freighter there is. I'm not saying all that to nag you, just pointing out that training for transport ships does not take 4 months and is very, very much worth it if you carry expensive stuff. I then expanded on that. I understand that you've suffered a heavy loss and that you would've preferred the above knowledge be imparted to you beforehand, but it can't be helped. Anyway, learn and adapt, some things in life are better learned through experience than theory. You'll be fine. Anyway, a good setup for a Badger involves shield hardeners (1 EM, 2 invuln fields for example), as many small or medium shield extenders as you can fit, maybe a 10MN Afterburner, but you should have instas anyway, so you shouldn't need the afterburner. --- High quality pics of ALL EVE ships!
Ortu Konsinni KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:18:00 - [50] Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it I can't operate transport yet. So I can't be a trader first 4 month o gaming. Now I'm know that. Just for the record... Skill requirements for Transport Ships: Industry V Racial Industrial V That's a month of training, maximum. That's a month during which you should not be at risk of losing hundreds of millions of ISK flying a tech 1 hauler, since, as a new player, you won't have the means to accrue those hundreds of millions of ISK worth of assets. Once you have the skills for transport ships, flying a freighter is an extra week away. With your transport ship, you can safely trade and make money to afford that freighter. Plus you're already Caldari -- the Bustard is an awesome ship and the Charon is the biggest freighter there is. I'm not saying all that to nag you, just pointing out that training for transport ships does not take 4 months and is very, very much worth it if you carry expensive stuff. I then expanded on that. I understand that you've suffered a heavy loss and that you would've preferred the above knowledge be imparted to you beforehand, but it can't be helped. Anyway, learn and adapt, some things in life are better learned through experience than theory. You'll be fine. Anyway, a good setup for a Badger involves shield hardeners (1 EM, 2 invuln fields for example), as many small or medium shield extenders as you can fit, maybe a 10MN Afterburner, but you should have instas anyway, so you shouldn't need the afterburner. --- High quality pics of ALL EVE ships!
IDesert FoxI	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:21:00 - [51] Sorry to hear your loss, but EVE is cruel like that. If you make a mistake, or run into a bad crowd, then you will feel the pain. Its happened to all of us. Just the other week I lost 700mil when testing the tank on my friends Hulk mining barge. I got distracted and it went pop, but you just have to move on and enjoy earning all the money again. EVE is unfair, and that level of unpredictability makes it fun.
IDesert FoxI	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:21:00 - [52] Sorry to hear your loss, but EVE is cruel like that. If you make a mistake, or run into a bad crowd, then you will feel the pain. Its happened to all of us. Just the other week I lost 700mil when testing the tank on my friends Hulk mining barge. I got distracted and it went pop, but you just have to move on and enjoy earning all the money again. EVE is unfair, and that level of unpredictability makes it fun.
IDesert FoxI	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:21:00 - [53] Sorry to hear your loss, but EVE is cruel like that. If you make a mistake, or run into a bad crowd, then you will feel the pain. Its happened to all of us. Just the other week I lost 700mil when testing the tank on my friends Hulk mining barge. I got distracted and it went pop, but you just have to move on and enjoy earning all the money again. EVE is unfair, and that level of unpredictability makes it fun.
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:21:00 - [54] Originally by: Ortu Konsinni Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it I can't operate transport yet. So I can't be a trader first 4 month o gaming. Now I'm know that. Just for the record... Skill requirements for Transport Ships: Industry V Racial Industrial V That's a month of training, maximum. That's a month during which you should not be at risk of losing hundreds of millions of ISK flying a tech 1 hauler, since, as a new player, you won't have the means to accrue those hundreds of millions of ISK worth of assets. And during the time he's training for a transport ship he's not training trading skills which will permit him to actually afford the transport ship or have anything to put in it.
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:21:00 - [55] Originally by: Ortu Konsinni Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it I can't operate transport yet. So I can't be a trader first 4 month o gaming. Now I'm know that. Just for the record... Skill requirements for Transport Ships: Industry V Racial Industrial V That's a month of training, maximum. That's a month during which you should not be at risk of losing hundreds of millions of ISK flying a tech 1 hauler, since, as a new player, you won't have the means to accrue those hundreds of millions of ISK worth of assets. And during the time he's training for a transport ship he's not training trading skills which will permit him to actually afford the transport ship or have anything to put in it.
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:21:00 - [56] Originally by: Ortu Konsinni Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it I can't operate transport yet. So I can't be a trader first 4 month o gaming. Now I'm know that. Just for the record... Skill requirements for Transport Ships: Industry V Racial Industrial V That's a month of training, maximum. That's a month during which you should not be at risk of losing hundreds of millions of ISK flying a tech 1 hauler, since, as a new player, you won't have the means to accrue those hundreds of millions of ISK worth of assets. And during the time he's training for a transport ship he's not training trading skills which will permit him to actually afford the transport ship or have anything to put in it.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:23:00 - [57] Originally by: James Snowscoran 1. Use a scout. Have him look out for suspicious hauler/battleship pairs lurking around high-traffic gates. When you was last time in empire? Such pairs is lurking around almost EVERY gate on popular trade paths. I'm see them everywhere. Yellow. Yellow with bounty. But got killed by guy with good security. Originally by: James Snowscoran 2. Use several haulers. If you had shipped 400 mill in 4 separate badger mark 2s, the ganker should only be able to pop one before concord nukes him. Nor when I need to transport somthing 20-30 jumps and return :-). Originally by: James Snowscoran 3. Use an escort. A couple cruisers would have been able to protect you just fine- provided they are in the same corp as the hauler, they can guard the can that drops after a gank from getting scooped by a hostile hauler. Most highsec gankers would, faced with a hauler with escort, realize they can't make any money from popping it and let it pass. My cargo just burns up as you can see in kill letter :-). Them lost some money too, making unporffitable killing.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:23:00 - [58] Originally by: James Snowscoran 1. Use a scout. Have him look out for suspicious hauler/battleship pairs lurking around high-traffic gates. When you was last time in empire? Such pairs is lurking around almost EVERY gate on popular trade paths. I'm see them everywhere. Yellow. Yellow with bounty. But got killed by guy with good security. Originally by: James Snowscoran 2. Use several haulers. If you had shipped 400 mill in 4 separate badger mark 2s, the ganker should only be able to pop one before concord nukes him. Nor when I need to transport somthing 20-30 jumps and return :-). Originally by: James Snowscoran 3. Use an escort. A couple cruisers would have been able to protect you just fine- provided they are in the same corp as the hauler, they can guard the can that drops after a gank from getting scooped by a hostile hauler. Most highsec gankers would, faced with a hauler with escort, realize they can't make any money from popping it and let it pass. My cargo just burns up as you can see in kill letter :-). Them lost some money too, making unporffitable killing.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:23:00 - [59] Originally by: James Snowscoran 1. Use a scout. Have him look out for suspicious hauler/battleship pairs lurking around high-traffic gates. When you was last time in empire? Such pairs is lurking around almost EVERY gate on popular trade paths. I'm see them everywhere. Yellow. Yellow with bounty. But got killed by guy with good security. Originally by: James Snowscoran 2. Use several haulers. If you had shipped 400 mill in 4 separate badger mark 2s, the ganker should only be able to pop one before concord nukes him. Nor when I need to transport somthing 20-30 jumps and return :-). Originally by: James Snowscoran 3. Use an escort. A couple cruisers would have been able to protect you just fine- provided they are in the same corp as the hauler, they can guard the can that drops after a gank from getting scooped by a hostile hauler. Most highsec gankers would, faced with a hauler with escort, realize they can't make any money from popping it and let it pass. My cargo just burns up as you can see in kill letter :-). Them lost some money too, making unporffitable killing.
Big Al The Aftermath	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:24:00 - [60] Looks like you learned a 400m isk lesson to not transport 400m isk worth of stuff in a ship that costs 700k Kill a farmer, win some isk!
Big Al The Aftermath	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:24:00 - [61] Looks like you learned a 400m isk lesson to not transport 400m isk worth of stuff in a ship that costs 700k Kill a farmer, win some isk!
Big Al The Aftermath	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:24:00 - [62] Looks like you learned a 400m isk lesson to not transport 400m isk worth of stuff in a ship that costs 700k Kill a farmer, win some isk!
Ortu Konsinni KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:25:00 - [63] Edited by: Ortu Konsinni on 23/11/2006 13:26:06 Originally by: Raquel Smith And during the time he's training for a transport ship he's not training trading skills which will permit him to actually afford the transport ship or have anything to put in it. Oh please. You can get around fine with mid-range levels in trading skills that are trained quickly, at least in the beginning. The rest is up to the player -- give priority to your safety (transport ships) or your ability to get more ISK in a given amount of time (trading skills). --- High quality pics of ALL EVE ships!
Ortu Konsinni KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:25:00 - [64] Edited by: Ortu Konsinni on 23/11/2006 13:26:06 Originally by: Raquel Smith And during the time he's training for a transport ship he's not training trading skills which will permit him to actually afford the transport ship or have anything to put in it. Oh please. You can get around fine with mid-range levels in trading skills that are trained quickly, at least in the beginning. The rest is up to the player -- give priority to your safety (transport ships) or your ability to get more ISK in a given amount of time (trading skills). --- High quality pics of ALL EVE ships!
Sean Dillon Caldari Snakes in a Pod	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:26:00 - [65] That must have been a good laugh for the goon pilot.
Sean Dillon Caldari Snakes in a Pod	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:26:00 - [66] That must have been a good laugh for the goon pilot.
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:26:00 - [67] Originally by: Raquel Smith Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant All the information and tools are available to you but by your own will, you chose to ingore them and only come to the forums when something bad happened to you. Reading this forum is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay. No, all this information is also available by talking to people ingame, but for those who don't talk to many people ingame, the forums are another place to gain information. What you seem to be saying is: 'Knowledge is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay.', in which case I strongly disagree.
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:26:00 - [68] Originally by: Raquel Smith Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant All the information and tools are available to you but by your own will, you chose to ingore them and only come to the forums when something bad happened to you. Reading this forum is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay. No, all this information is also available by talking to people ingame, but for those who don't talk to many people ingame, the forums are another place to gain information. What you seem to be saying is: 'Knowledge is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay.', in which case I strongly disagree.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:29:00 - [69] Originally by: Ortu Konsinni Just for the record... Skill requirements for Transport Ships: Industry V Racial Industrial V That's a month of training, maximum. That's a month during which you should not be at risk of losing hundreds of millions of ISK flying a tech 1 hauler, since, as a new player, you won't have the means to accrue those hundreds of millions of ISK worth of assets. Once you have the skills for transport ships, flying a freighter is an extra week away. With your transport ship, you can safely trade and make money to afford that freighter. Plus you're already Caldari -- the Bustard is an awesome ship and the Charon is the biggest freighter there is. I'm not saying all that to nag you, just pointing out that training for transport ships does not take 4 months and is very, very much worth it if you carry expensive stuff. I then expanded on that. I understand that you've suffered a heavy loss and that you would've preferred the above knowledge be imparted to you beforehand, but it can't be helped. Anyway, learn and adapt, some things in life are better learned through experience than theory. You'll be fine. Anyway, a good setup for a Badger involves shield hardeners (1 EM, 2 invuln fields for example), as many small or medium shield extenders as you can fit, maybe a 10MN Afterburner, but you should have instas anyway, so you shouldn't need the afterburner. I mean trader - not trasporter. I'm complete learning skills not much time ago. Also to be a trader I need to learn retail/broker relations/etc - I'm made most money not by transporting but but buying/reselling. That is eats orders :-). But when I have now enought money to make some fast 5-10% deals I'm got killed... Seems I need to spent extra month to learn transport ships and then continue... And yes, use instants. Good lesson anyway, but that is so hard to beging everythinh from nothing...
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:29:00 - [70] Originally by: Ortu Konsinni Just for the record... Skill requirements for Transport Ships: Industry V Racial Industrial V That's a month of training, maximum. That's a month during which you should not be at risk of losing hundreds of millions of ISK flying a tech 1 hauler, since, as a new player, you won't have the means to accrue those hundreds of millions of ISK worth of assets. Once you have the skills for transport ships, flying a freighter is an extra week away. With your transport ship, you can safely trade and make money to afford that freighter. Plus you're already Caldari -- the Bustard is an awesome ship and the Charon is the biggest freighter there is. I'm not saying all that to nag you, just pointing out that training for transport ships does not take 4 months and is very, very much worth it if you carry expensive stuff. I then expanded on that. I understand that you've suffered a heavy loss and that you would've preferred the above knowledge be imparted to you beforehand, but it can't be helped. Anyway, learn and adapt, some things in life are better learned through experience than theory. You'll be fine. Anyway, a good setup for a Badger involves shield hardeners (1 EM, 2 invuln fields for example), as many small or medium shield extenders as you can fit, maybe a 10MN Afterburner, but you should have instas anyway, so you shouldn't need the afterburner. I mean trader - not trasporter. I'm complete learning skills not much time ago. Also to be a trader I need to learn retail/broker relations/etc - I'm made most money not by transporting but but buying/reselling. That is eats orders :-). But when I have now enought money to make some fast 5-10% deals I'm got killed... Seems I need to spent extra month to learn transport ships and then continue... And yes, use instants. Good lesson anyway, but that is so hard to beging everythinh from nothing...
AlleyKat Gallente The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:36:00 - [71] High Security IRL does not equal total security. So long as people are prepared to pay for the consequences of their actions - they will commit crimes. Another point to make is this: if no one risked anything in Jita etc in T1 haulers, then the gates would not be camped with gankers...think about it. If you want revenge, you do have kill rights - or you could hire a mercenary to hunt them down Recruiting!
AlleyKat Gallente The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:36:00 - [72] High Security IRL does not equal total security. So long as people are prepared to pay for the consequences of their actions - they will commit crimes. Another point to make is this: if no one risked anything in Jita etc in T1 haulers, then the gates would not be camped with gankers...think about it. If you want revenge, you do have kill rights - or you could hire a mercenary to hunt them down Recruiting!
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:43:00 - [73] Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: Marsha11 Shame i wasn't there i would have killed you too. 'Do not fly what you cant afford to loose' That applies to any system in game... Eve just not friendly for traders. I can't protect my cargo by NPC or PC escort, can't insure it etc. Fighter will never loose all course it always have insurance. Only if they fly t1 only, which for a trader is like flying around with a cargohold of veldspar. Run around with faction stuff, insurance does very little, same as for running around transporting a full load of nocx. And it's HIGH!!! security... can you read that. HIGH security... it doesn't say GOD MODE, or globe of major invunerability, or invunerabilitiy shield, or what have you. It says higher then low security security. Which is what you got, cops that arrive too late to do anything meaningful, while the smart criminal gets away with the loot.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:43:00 - [74] Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: Marsha11 Shame i wasn't there i would have killed you too. 'Do not fly what you cant afford to loose' That applies to any system in game... Eve just not friendly for traders. I can't protect my cargo by NPC or PC escort, can't insure it etc. Fighter will never loose all course it always have insurance. Only if they fly t1 only, which for a trader is like flying around with a cargohold of veldspar. Run around with faction stuff, insurance does very little, same as for running around transporting a full load of nocx. And it's HIGH!!! security... can you read that. HIGH security... it doesn't say GOD MODE, or globe of major invunerability, or invunerabilitiy shield, or what have you. It says higher then low security security. Which is what you got, cops that arrive too late to do anything meaningful, while the smart criminal gets away with the loot.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:02:00 - [75] Originally by: Debaro Zeir ...My Badger Mark II... 1 million ISK Originally by: Debaro Zeir ...almost ALL my money... ~400 million ISK Originally by: Debaro Zeir Just remember there is no safe systems when you trading. PRICELESS Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in?
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:07:00 - [76] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Debaro Zeir ...My Badger Mark II... 1 million ISK Actually 3.5 mils - badger, 2 conts and t2 afterburner.
Bistot Kid Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:17:00 - [77] I do feel very sorry for you mate. All you'll get here is people calling you an idiot and telling you how wonderful and brave the Raven pilot who blew you up was. Pick up and start again, don't let them make you leave Eve. Shame on GoonFleet though. I always had you down as some ballsy guys who were taking on the big established alliances, not using your huge power to bully the little guy.
Zebler Four Horsemen	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:18:00 - [78] Suicide Raven: 6 T1 torp launchers, with 4 t1 BCU. 2 t1 painters, web, sensor booster, cargo scanner, passive targetter Damage control in the remaining low slot With reasonable skills they are going to hit for around 700 dmg per torp. ROF is about 10 seconds. Ship will last to concord for about 20 seconds, so thats 3 salvos. 3x6x700= 12,600 dmg Please don't tell people to tank a T1 hauler, it just doesn't work. Also, please don't think I am a high sec ganker. I prefer combat against people who are ready to fight back......
Baleorg Gallente Guys of Sarcasm	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:23:00 - [79] Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! "but it says badger II" so its not t1 right? ;) --- BTW: A GOOD Cache-Cleaner
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:24:00 - [80] Originally by: Bistot Kid All you'll get here is people calling you an idiot and telling you how wonderful and brave the Raven pilot who blew you up was. Why don't you read the thread first? Also, 1 pilot in Goonfleet != all of Goonfleet.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:29:00 - [81] Never haul more than what it costs to suicide you. Ever heard of making two runs, if you can't fly a transport or freighter? Or hiring a freighter for just a few million? Vix3n can help you with that. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Eilene Fernite	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:30:00 - [82] If you can't afford/fly a t2 hauler, pay someone else to haul your stuff for you. There's the player courier missions for that. After Kali, there'll be contracts. There is no reason why you have to fly around with 500 mil in a paper bag.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:31:00 - [83] Originally by: Bistot Kid All you'll get here is people calling you an idiot and telling you how wonderful and brave the Raven pilot who blew you up was. And the "making stuff up award goes to..." Seriously, the worst posts in this thread are from the high and mighty types such as yourself and some earlier posters, who are totally unable to see the useful information others have imparted. Sure people aren't being sympathetic, but then, why should they be? Many people here have not lost ships to high sec gate gankers because they did read the forums and did make preparations. When they do lose a ship, they don't come here and make out that "high sec is not safe" like its some whiny revelation. Plus, you also operate under the delusion that anyone who doesn't automatically sympathise with the OP like a mindless sheep, must be a "ebil piwate" of some sort. This is rarely the truth, but instead you find people are "pro-piracy" because it enriches their eve gameplay, even though they don't pirate themselves.
Max Teranous Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:36:00 - [84] Originally by: Raquel Smith Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant All the information and tools are available to you but by your own will, you chose to ingore them and only come to the forums when something bad happened to you. Reading this forum is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay. Maybe not, but the player guide certainly is a good thing to read: Originally by: player guide Don't expect CONCORD to keep you immune to attacks or ship losses. Like in the real world, law enforcers often arrive too late at the scene of the crime, and even though they able to punish the criminal, they can't always prevent the crime. High security does not = 100% safety. For example, the last T2 BPO BDCI bought was hauled in a CNR. Try to suicide that Max --------------------
DefJam101 Gallente Praxiteles Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:37:00 - [85] The OP was pretty lolz. Unless english ain't his first language. Either way don't "eggs in one basket" Plus you were too rich for your own good(at only 3 months) anyways =/ Im going on 5 and only have 90 mill, max of 150. ***
Giant Haystacks Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:43:00 - [86] Edited by: Giant Haystacks on 23/11/2006 14:44:03 A Badger II can easily be tanked to survive sucide Raven's. 3x Med Extender II 3x Invul II 2x PDU II Damage Control I 4076 sheild HP with average res of 72%, 1016 armor HP wilh avg res of 41 and 1016 structure hp with 50%. Thats about 18.3k effective hp, compared to 3.3k with no tank. A T1 fitted raven with max skills will do about 4.5k damage per volley, so the untanked badger gets instapopped but the tanked one needs 5 volleys, which the Raven can't fire before being killed by Concord.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:51:00 - [87] i haven't read most of this thread, since i doubt there's anything new, but to the op: sorry but live and learn. most of the people here would bend over and gladly and unknowningly let the eve guys give it to them from behind so you won't get anything useful arguing with them. anyone that belives that a 40 percent of ship cost penality and some time is enough to allows a system to be called high security must have sucked quite a bit.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:54:00 - [88] Originally by: Nimie most of the people here would bend over and gladly and unknowningly let the eve guys give it to them from behind so you won't get anything useful arguing with them. Obviously, because there is no chance that we could be correct in anyway at all.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:58:00 - [89] Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant Why don't you read the thread first? Also, 1 pilot in Goonfleet != all of Goonfleet. Goonfleet CEO do not answer me yet. I'm waiting for his answer
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:59:00 - [90] Originally by: Zebler Suicide Raven: 6 T1 torp launchers, with 4 t1 BCU. 2 t1 painters, web, sensor booster, cargo scanner, passive targetter Damage control in the remaining low slot With reasonable skills they are going to hit for around 700 dmg per torp. ROF is about 10 seconds. Ship will last to concord for about 20 seconds, so thats 3 salvos. 3x6x700= 12,600 dmg Please don't tell people to tank a T1 hauler, it just doesn't work. Also, please don't think I am a high sec ganker. I prefer combat against people who are ready to fight back...... Thank you. Very usefull estimation.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:00:00 - [91] Originally by: Sendraks Originally by: Nimie most of the people here would bend over and gladly and unknowningly let the eve guys give it to them from behind so you won't get anything useful arguing with them. Obviously, because there is no chance that we could be correct in anyway at all. it's possible, but it's not like whether or not you're correct is random. a 40m cost to sucide gank is too low of a cost that many players can afford. when too many players can afford to break the law, the law will be broken. that's why high sec cannot correctly be called high sec. it is misleading.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:03:00 - [92] Originally by: DefJam101 The OP was pretty lolz. Unless english ain't his first language. Either way don't "eggs in one basket" Plus you were too rich for your own good(at only 3 months) anyways =/ Im going on 5 and only have 90 mill, max of 150. Yes. That is not my native language. - How much time you spending eve everyday? - How much cost your assets? I'm not "too rich" I'm just a trader. You have BS with fitting - like 200 mils isn't it? And you making money on BS. I have just money and trying to make ISK using ISK. That is my tool to do that :-).
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:05:00 - [93] Originally by: Giant Haystacks Edited by: Giant Haystacks on 23/11/2006 14:44:03 A Badger II can easily be tanked to survive sucide Raven's. 3x Med Extender II 3x Invul II 2x PDU II Damage Control I 4076 sheild HP with average res of 72%, 1016 armor HP wilh avg res of 41 and 1016 structure hp with 50%. Thats about 18.3k effective hp, compared to 3.3k with no tank. A T1 fitted raven with max skills will do about 4.5k damage per volley, so the untanked badger gets instapopped but the tanked one needs 5 volleys, which the Raven can't fire before being killed by Concord. Great thanks! I'm was waiting for such info all thread :-). 2x PDU II == power diagnostic?
Yumi Katanawe Caldari Demon Womb	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:05:00 - [94] Originally by: Raquel Smith safe gameplay. And that's just what the CCP folks had in mind when they designed EVE. This game is about player interaction and conflict, there is not anything 100% safe.
Robert Dobbs Church Of The Subgenius	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:13:00 - [95] Originally by: Debaro Zeir Great thanks! I'm was waiting for such info all thread :-). 2x PDU II == power diagnostic? You're still not safe, even with this setup. Just so you know. - --------- Listen to BoB Radio!!
Nimie	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:14:00 - [96] Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: Giant Haystacks Edited by: Giant Haystacks on 23/11/2006 14:44:03 A Badger II can easily be tanked to survive sucide Raven's. 3x Med Extender II 3x Invul II 2x PDU II Damage Control I 4076 sheild HP with average res of 72%, 1016 armor HP wilh avg res of 41 and 1016 structure hp with 50%. Thats about 18.3k effective hp, compared to 3.3k with no tank. A T1 fitted raven with max skills will do about 4.5k damage per volley, so the untanked badger gets instapopped but the tanked one needs 5 volleys, which the Raven can't fire before being killed by Concord. Great thanks! I'm was waiting for such info all thread :-). 2x PDU II == power diagnostic? yes, but most traders obviously won't be able to wear those. those 3x inv 2's also cost more than a transport ship. that setup also gimps the trading ablity of most traders. the extenders will also make you ship larger.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:16:00 - [97] Originally by: Robert Dobbs Originally by: Debaro Zeir Great thanks! I'm was waiting for such info all thread :-). 2x PDU II == power diagnostic? You're still not safe, even with this setup. Just so you know. Probally gunkers will try another target as this fitting raisung my chances. But of course them can use 2 ravens and I know about that :-).
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:22:00 - [98] Originally by: Nimie it's possible, but it's not like whether or not you're correct is random. a 40m cost to sucide gank is too low of a cost that many players can afford. when too many players can afford to break the law, the law will be broken. You'll already find a comment, in this thread, from me, about the general agreement in another thread that people should not get insurance payouts due to Concord related losses. I by no means think the existing system is perfect and needs refinement. That does not mean it should be removed, but certainly there should be greater overheads for the pirates. Originally by: Nimie that's why high sec cannot correctly be called high sec. it is misleading. I fail to see how its misleading. High sec space is just that, high security, not total security. It is certainly much more secure than low sec and decidedly more so than 0.0. High sec doesn't mean 100% safe and nowhere does the game give the impression that it is. Thats something dreamt up by players.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:24:00 - [99] Edited by: Sendraks on 23/11/2006 15:24:32 Originally by: Debaro Zeir Probally gunkers will try another target as this fitting raising my chances. But of course them can use 2 ravens and I know about that :-). THATS the spirit! Ultimately in Eve, short of being docked, there is no way to make yourself 100% safe. If you're in T2 hauler, you'll still lose your cargo if you get set upon by 5 torp raven high sec pirates, but its less likely to happen as you're not obviously easy pickings. You do everything you can to improve your chances of survival. Thats all you can do.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:28:00 - [100] Edited by: Nimie on 23/11/2006 15:32:35 Edited by: Nimie on 23/11/2006 15:30:55 Originally by: Nimie that's why high sec cannot correctly be called high sec. it is misleading. I fail to see how its misleading. High sec space is just that, high security, not total security. It is certainly much more secure than low sec and decidedly more so than 0.0. High sec doesn't mean 100% safe and nowhere does the game give the impression that it is. Thats something dreamt up by players. well, thanks for earlier comment. i would still have to disagree and say saying it's high sec is misleading. high sec is actually more dangerous for a hauler than low space and 0.0 space. they should at least call it medium sec and say that even in an empire's capital the crime rate can be high. Originally by: Debaro Zeir Edited by: Debaro Zeir on 23/11/2006 15:18:51 Originally by: Robert Dobbs Originally by: Debaro Zeir Great thanks! I'm was waiting for such info all thread :-). 2x PDU II == power diagnostic? You're still not safe, even with this setup. Just so you know. Probally gunkers will try another target as this fitting raising my chances. But of course them can use 2 ravens and I know about that :-). this won't happen. the moment they see your nox they'll attack you.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:30:00 - [101] Edited by: Nimie on 23/11/2006 15:31:07 blah
Taedrin Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:37:00 - [102] Though this may not have been Jita, rule #4 still applies. The Unwritten Rules of EVE: 1) Never undock a ship that you can't afford to lose (fittings and cargo, included) 2) No space is safe space 3) ALWAYS get FULL insurance on any ship you fly. 4) Never haul more than 20 million worth of goods into Jita in a T1 hauler 5) Always keep local open in low sec space 6) Always check the map for activity when traveling through low sec 7) Always use warp-to-0km (instas) when traveling in low sec, especially in 0.0 8) Never go AFK in a low sec system while undocked 9) Never mine solo in a barge/exhumer in low sec 10) Always make safespots in low sec systems that you visit frequently
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:43:00 - [103] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 23/11/2006 12:52:28 How does a 3 month old character earn 600M ISKs? Mining and trading 24/7? Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:46:00 - [104] Originally by: Nimie high sec is actually more dangerous for a hauler than low space and 0.0 space. Care to elaborate as to why you think this? Originally by: Nimie they should at least call it medium sec and say that even in an empire's capital the crime rate can be high. No. Why should they call it medium sec? Low sec is called low sec, because the security forces there are low. High sec is called high sec, because the security forces there are high. Calling it medium sec makes no sense. High security is not the same as "safe space" and it is not labelled as such. The game manual and game makes it quite clear that you can be attacked there, so I fail to see why it should rebadged just because some players make assumptuons about the meaning of "high sec." As for the crime rate being high, again I don't see this myself. In fact, I've never seen an incidence high sec piracy. Sure I've been attacked in my hauler in low sec, and escaped time and again, but never in high sec.
Verus Potestas Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:51:00 - [105] You put 400mil worth of stuff in a ship which cost 800k, and expected it to be safe. TBH, the sentry guns should take people down who do that, and call it "Concord Enforced Natural Selection". Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Mak'shar Karrde Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:55:00 - [106] Originally by: Sendraks Originally by: Nimie high sec is actually more dangerous for a hauler than low space and 0.0 space. Care to elaborate as to why you think this? Well, ignoring everything else so far, in 0.0 you can secure the gates and make sure there are no neutrals/hostiles within a couple of jumps. While Empire is still pretty safe with scouts/instas; there is always the chance that the mega/raven/whatever sitting next to the gate will try his luck. At least for T1 haulers. You will never see my transporting anything worth more than ~45mil (the price of a T2 hauler) in a paper-thin ship in Empire. Not unless I have a couple billion in the bank anyway (not bloody likely). The only expensive things I need to transport through Empire can fit in a heavily tanked Battleship.
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:57:00 - [107] How many times do folks need to be told NOT to haul expensive items in paper thin ships. There are is no safe space it's an illusion put about by piwats ----------------------------------------------- Knowing all, when all is unknown.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.23 16:03:00 - [108] Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde Well, ignoring everything else so far, in 0.0 you can secure the gates and make sure there are no neutrals/hostiles within a couple of jumps. While Empire is still pretty safe with scouts/instas; there is always the chance that the mega/raven/whatever sitting next to the gate will try his luck. Well a hauler caught in 0.0 alone is far, far more screwed than a hauler in high sec. If the hauler in high sec can tank fire long enough, concord will destroy the threat. Thats not going to happen in 0.0 or low sec. Moving a hauler with expensive cargo through 0.0 you take precautions. At bare minimum you use intsas. Then beyond that you check the route ahead for ship kills and pod kills. You ask in Alliance chat for reports of hostiles in the area. For greater security you fly with an escort with other people from your corp. People who can attack hostiles and or help repair your ship. You can do that in both high sec and 0.0, but the added advantage of high sec is that concord will come help you out.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 16:09:00 - [109] Edited by: Debaro Zeir on 23/11/2006 16:10:10 Originally by: Nimie this won't happen. the moment they see your nox they'll attack you. Just see kill letter carefully. My nocx was in conts, so this was just blind killing. I has only 7 cu vapor miner I in my cargo. Them could see only that. But he tries and completely loose his money. Them got ~3 mils from rest of cargo. But I was loose much more.
Doragee Minmatar Unknown Society	Posted - 2006.11.23 16:24:00 - [110] Originally by: Debaro Zeir Edited by: Debaro Zeir on 23/11/2006 16:10:10 Originally by: Nimie this won't happen. the moment they see your nox they'll attack you. Just see kill letter carefully. My nocx was in conts, so this was just blind killing. I has only 7 cu vapor miner I in my cargo. Them could see only that. But he tries and completely loose his money. Them got ~3 mils from rest of cargo. But I was loose much more. Wrong...since at least 6 months cargo scanner show EVERYTHING..also stuff within sec.cans.! --
Di Jiensai Gallente Myster0ns	Posted - 2006.11.23 16:25:00 - [111] Originally by: Debaro Zeir Edited by: Debaro Zeir on 23/11/2006 16:10:10 Originally by: Nimie this won't happen. the moment they see your nox they'll attack you. Just see kill letter carefully. My nocx was in conts, so this was just blind killing. I has only 7 cu vapor miner I in my cargo. Them could see only that. But he tries and completely loose his money. Them got ~3 mils from rest of cargo. But I was loose much more. The contents of container show up on cargo scan as does anything in the normal hold. you cant hide from teh scanners. And just for the record, you learned a 3rd lessen by that incident: Highsec ganking is good money. Try it your self. and you dont realy need a Raven for it. a tech1 cruiser with lots of guns and damage output will do fine. Of course you might encounter the odd tanked indy, but they are so rare, its hardly a risk. Your loss then about 4M (high estimate) your gain? well, a lot. --- The Story of the Big-Bad-Nos-Domi and the Brutix Selfproclaimed last instance on Rightousness Issues
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 16:26:00 - [112] Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde At least for T1 haulers. You will never see my transporting anything worth more than ~45mil (the price of a T2 hauler) in a paper-thin ship in Empire. Not unless I have a couple billion in the bank anyway (not bloody likely). The only expensive things I need to transport through Empire can fit in a heavily tanked Battleship. And how much cargo can carry your 'heavy tanked battleship'? :-) May be better to use pair carrier + freighter? Just one year of skill training and I'm can trade very safe, yes :-).
Romeda	Posted - 2006.11.23 16:26:00 - [113] Sorry to see your loss, I really look down on people who use these high security gank tactics, although I don't think high security should be 100% safe, but industrial trade and business does need a mostly safe environment to operate. My advice is to invest in a T2 haller, Transport ships I think they are called, you would stand a better chance in one of those.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 16:27:00 - [114] Originally by: Doragee Originally by: Debaro Zeir Edited by: Debaro Zeir on 23/11/2006 16:10:10 Originally by: Nimie this won't happen. the moment they see your nox they'll attack you. Just see kill letter carefully. My nocx was in conts, so this was just blind killing. I has only 7 cu vapor miner I in my cargo. Them could see only that. But he tries and completely loose his money. Them got ~3 mils from rest of cargo. But I was loose much more. Wrong...since at least 6 months cargo scanner show EVERYTHING..also stuff within sec.cans.! Okay, thanks for information.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 16:32:00 - [115] Originally by: Romeda Sorry to see your loss, I really look down on people who use these high security gank tactics, although I don't think high security should be 100% safe, but industrial trade and business does need a mostly safe environment to operate. My advice is to invest in a T2 haller, Transport ships I think they are called, you would stand a better chance in one of those. Yes. I just can't trade using large turnover untill learn transport ships. So that will slow me down in my earnings. I will try courier missions instead of flying myself :-).
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 16:38:00 - [116] Originally by: Di Jiensai Originally by: Debaro Zeir Edited by: Debaro Zeir on 23/11/2006 16:10:10 Originally by: Nimie this won't happen. the moment they see your nox they'll attack you. Just see kill letter carefully. My nocx was in conts, so this was just blind killing. I has only 7 cu vapor miner I in my cargo. Them could see only that. But he tries and completely loose his money. Them got ~3 mils from rest of cargo. But I was loose much more. The contents of container show up on cargo scan as does anything in the normal hold. you cant hide from teh scanners. And just for the record, you learned a 3rd lessen by that incident: Highsec ganking is good money. Try it your self. and you dont realy need a Raven for it. a tech1 cruiser with lots of guns and damage output will do fine. Of course you might encounter the odd tanked indy, but they are so rare, its hardly a risk. Your loss then about 4M (high estimate) your gain? well, a lot. I don't know how to use that kind of experience in RL :-). But atacker loosing 0.5 of ss also. I don't know how much time need to gain it.
Tunajuice	Posted - 2006.11.23 16:41:00 - [117] Totally your fault, you can use instas and be 99.999999999% safe in empire. Also, you can fly a blockade runner or something with a little more beef if you have that expensive of cargo.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 16:44:00 - [118] Originally by: Tunajuice Totally your fault, you can use instas and be 99.999999999% safe in empire. Also, you can fly a blockade runner or something with a little more beef if you have that expensive of cargo. And I can't be caught on another end of the gate?
Zebler Four Horsemen	Posted - 2006.11.23 16:44:00 - [119] Edited by: Zebler on 23/11/2006 16:45:34 Originally by: Giant Haystacks Edited by: Giant Haystacks on 23/11/2006 14:44:03 A Badger II can easily be tanked to survive sucide Raven's. 3x Med Extender II 3x Invul II 2x PDU II Damage Control I 4076 sheild HP with average res of 72%, 1016 armor HP wilh avg res of 41 and 1016 structure hp with 50%. Thats about 18.3k effective hp, compared to 3.3k with no tank. A T1 fitted raven with max skills will do about 4.5k damage per volley, so the untanked badger gets instapopped but the tanked one needs 5 volleys, which the Raven can't fire before being killed by Concord. Its a good setup, I will give you that. That will protect you from the casual thoughtless ganker, but.... those 3xinvul field 2's are pushing 45mil, and are almost worth enough for a suicide attempt alone. Most ppl know to shoot Caldari with EM damage, and would know to do so after an alt scans your setup....so... Em resits is only 62% on shield. Calcs were done assuming 2nd best named DCU You need to do 10500 raw EM to take shield You need to do 2850 raw EM for armour and finally need 2225 EM on structure. Thats a total of 15575 raw damage, you might make it, you might not If you come across the wrong sort of person even with no cargo, they may just take you out in the hope of getting your mods.
Robert Dobbs Church Of The Subgenius	Posted - 2006.11.23 16:59:00 - [120] Originally by: Debaro Zeir And I can't be caught on another end of the gate? Are you still whining? - --------- Listen to BoB Radio!!
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 17:02:00 - [121] Originally by: Robert Dobbs Originally by: Debaro Zeir And I can't be caught on another end of the gate? Are you still whining? Who are you?
Typical Spy Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.23 17:05:00 - [122] A ganker also knows that 50% or more of your mods/cargo are going to be destroyed. A Ganker also knows that after he makes his kill, he cant kill again for at least 15 minutes (sometimes much longer) (this allowing better targets to pass by) and he can only make so many kills before he has to spend weeks fixing his security status. Also, I doubt a typical gank BS is going to do 15k modified damage before it gets owned. All that being said, you will only get ganked if you turn yourself into a juicey target. If your total cargo worth is only 50m isk a ganker prolly wont waste his time on you, seeing as he is likely to only get 25m isk and his insurance and modules had a cost. If you tank out even just a T1 hauler properly you can fairly safely carry upwards of 100m isk in goods. T2 raises that to 500m or so. While technically it is possible that 7 BSes all gank you even in a super tanked t2 hauler, I've never seen gankers with that level of cordination, need, and time. Still possible though, so use a freighter for highest security possible. ----- Selling all races battleships at great prices, convo me in game for details.
fivetide humidyear Gallente The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2006.11.23 17:12:00 - [123] Edited by: fivetide humidyear on 23/11/2006 17:16:18 Yep, of course you can be caught on the otherside of the gate but the attacker has much less time to lock you, get the cargo scan results up and make a decision to attack as you align to warp. Then he has to be close enough to scramble you to stop you warping away. I've been the "victim" of 3 high sec ganks and I learnt the same lesson from them all: Number 1 carrying loads of mission loot in the ours to jita pipe, scanned by badger mkII attacked by lone Brutix. attack barely scratched Occators shield. ROFL'd as attacker wtfbbq by concord Number 2 carrying even more expensive cargo up same pipe about to jump into kisogo, attacked by 3 caracals and 2 brutix's. now this time i had to repair some damage to the occators armour, about 500 iirc. that annoyed me. LOL'd even more at the we should have popped it comments in local, got some good loot from their cans too and enjoyed bumping a couple of pods around. Number 3 Ganka raven attacked me for not very much cargo, possibly for my mods, care to guess the result? Occator suffered light scratching to armour, not actually repaired that armour damage yet. What did I learn? Industrial level 5 was one of the best skills i've trained. The occator was iirc about 25 days training that was well worth it and I'm mainly trained in shooty shooty stuff. You get the added bonus of the blocade runner for low sec and speedy hauling. it's been said before, don't carry 400million in a tech one hauler. On my occ with extra passive hardners for, good DC etc i have resists in the high 80's to 90's on loads of armour and good resists on the hull, I would guess that it would take at least 3 ravens to be sure of popping it, especially in higher sec systems where the concord reaction is faster. Going to try that next time I can get onto sisi with some corpmates. you can't tank a tech 1 hauler enough to be sure of fending off a ganka raven, maybe a iteron 5 could do it comfortably but hell thats a few million for a skillbook away from transports anyway. (and the cost of the Occator) I've made a copy of this for when the same omg i got killed in high sec post appears next week.
scabbsssjr Gallente M'8'S	Posted - 2006.11.23 17:14:00 - [124] Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it I can't operate transport yet. So I can't be a trader first 4 month o gaming. Now I'm know that. Since you have 400m worth of mins in your t1 hauler, you know what you should do? CARGO CANS, **** by my second week in eve I was using them. What ever I say is my own views and not of my corp.
Lumee	Posted - 2006.11.23 17:29:00 - [125] With the upcomming "warp-to-0km" change in Kali on the "supposed" 28th of November, this will all be over... In the mean time, one hint: INSTA BOOKMARKS! Some people sell them for a lot, but you can make your own, it's easy, just long... Set a route but disable autopilot. 1. Plan your route first, then get a shuttle (faster) 2. Bookmark the object (gate or station), call it like... 1. Gate 3. Then fly your route, and place bookmarks (manual) about 12-13km past the target (gate or station), while keeping your trajectory lined up, and call it 1. Warp 4. Warp back to the previous point, then back to the Warp bookmark, and be ready to right-click the Gate bookmark and click Activate (or dock if station) to test it, then rinse and repeat for each waypoint. It takes a lot of practice to get them perfect everytime, but they work very well...
Typical Spy Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.23 17:33:00 - [126] Originally by: scabbsssjr Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it I can't operate transport yet. So I can't be a trader first 4 month o gaming. Now I'm know that. Since you have 400m worth of mins in your t1 hauler, you know what you should do? CARGO CANS, **** by my second week in eve I was using them. Um... what do cargo cans do to save you? Do what the above poster said, use a t2 hauler. By the time you have enough money/goods to need a t2 hauler, you should have had 3x the time needed to train for one. So just train for it and use it. ----- Selling all races battleships at great prices, convo me in game for details.
Mak'shar Karrde Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.23 17:40:00 - [127] Originally by: Sendraks Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde Well, ignoring everything else so far, in 0.0 you can secure the gates and make sure there are no neutrals/hostiles within a couple of jumps. While Empire is still pretty safe with scouts/instas; there is always the chance that the mega/raven/whatever sitting next to the gate will try his luck. Well a hauler caught in 0.0 alone is far, far more screwed than a hauler in high sec. If the hauler in high sec can tank fire long enough, concord will destroy the threat. Thats not going to happen in 0.0 or low sec. Moving a hauler with expensive cargo through 0.0 you take precautions. At bare minimum you use intsas. Then beyond that you check the route ahead for ship kills and pod kills. You ask in Alliance chat for reports of hostiles in the area. For greater security you fly with an escort with other people from your corp. People who can attack hostiles and or help repair your ship. You can do that in both high sec and 0.0, but the added advantage of high sec is that concord will come help you out. Well a solo hauler travelling through 0.0 with no intel deserves to be shot really. Even I would find that a hard target to resist. The difference is that in Empire you can only react to a situation. In 0.0 you can predict any threat and neutralise it before you send the haulers through. Not that I think Empire should be safer. I think it's fine as is, you really shouldn't transport that much wealth in such an inadequate ship. As to how much I can carry in my Battleship... Well not a lot, obviously, the only expensive things (50+ mil) I have to haul are usually loot/implants. I'm not much of a trader (though I can fly a transport ship). I'm eternally poor and can't justify buying the Freighter skill book considering how little use I would get out of it.
Taedrin Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2006.11.23 17:41:00 - [128] Actually, supposedly you can shrink wrap your cargo and cargo scanners (supposedly) won't see through it. Of course they may presume that if you went through the effort to shrink wrap it, it has to be something good. But that's why you should go around hauling shrinkwrapped trit every once inawhile, just to watch suicide gate campers get popped for .1m¦ of trit
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 17:49:00 - [129] Originally by: fivetide humidyear Edited by: fivetide humidyear on 23/11/2006 17:16:18 you can't tank a tech 1 hauler enough to be sure of fending off a ganka raven, maybe a iteron 5 could do it comfortably but hell thats a few million for a skillbook away from transports anyway. (and the cost of the Occator) I've made a copy of this for when the same omg i got killed in high sec post appears next week. Thank you for that story.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 17:51:00 - [130] Originally by: Taedrin Actually, supposedly you can shrink wrap your cargo and cargo scanners (supposedly) won't see through it. Of course they may presume that if you went through the effort to shrink wrap it, it has to be something good. But that's why you should go around hauling shrinkwrapped trit every once inawhile, just to watch suicide gate campers get popped for .1m¦ of trit What is shrink wrap of cargo? I don't unserstand.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 17:52:00 - [131] Originally by: Lumee With the upcomming "warp-to-0km" change in Kali on the "supposed" 28th of November, this will all be over... In the mean time, one hint: INSTA BOOKMARKS! Some people sell them for a lot, but you can make your own, it's easy, just long... Set a route but disable autopilot. 1. Plan your route first, then get a shuttle (faster) 2. Bookmark the object (gate or station), call it like... 1. Gate 3. Then fly your route, and place bookmarks (manual) about 12-13km past the target (gate or station), while keeping your trajectory lined up, and call it 1. Warp 4. Warp back to the previous point, then back to the Warp bookmark, and be ready to right-click the Gate bookmark and click Activate (or dock if station) to test it, then rinse and repeat for each waypoint. It takes a lot of practice to get them perfect everytime, but they work very well... Thanks for that description. I'm made some instas already, but I don't have them for all paths :-)
scabbsssjr Gallente M'8'S	Posted - 2006.11.23 18:05:00 - [132] Originally by: Typical Spy Originally by: scabbsssjr Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it I can't operate transport yet. So I can't be a trader first 4 month o gaming. Now I'm know that. Since you have 400m worth of mins in your t1 hauler, you know what you should do? CARGO CANS, **** by my second week in eve I was using them. Um... what do cargo cans do to save you? Do what the above poster said, use a t2 hauler. By the time you have enough money/goods to need a t2 hauler, you should have had 3x the time needed to train for one. So just train for it and use it. If your goods are in cargo cans. I am 99% sure thay can't be scanned, meaning they won't know if your worth attacking or not. What ever I say is my own views and not of my corp.
Jacob Holland Gallente FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.23 18:07:00 - [133] Edited by: Jacob Holland on 23/11/2006 18:08:22 Edited by: Jacob Holland on 23/11/2006 18:08:01 Originally by: Debaro Zeir Can you tell me good fitting for badger II? Main concept. Course there is very low PG. Start off by resigning yourself to 6k m3 cargo, then add Medium F-s9 Regolith Shield Extenders, with Power Diagnostic Systems in the lows, a little Engineering and Shield Upgrades you can fit four without trouble. You then need to make the choice between using an EM Hardener and an Invulnerability Field (boosts your resistances quite a chunk meaning you take less damage but need to be turned on every time you jump) or a Visceostatic EM Ward Salubrity/Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II and another Extender (IIRC this one needs to be small) (more shield HP but lower resistances, the primary advantage is that Resistance Amplifiers are always running - so if you need to run for a biobreak on a long haul you won't be defenceless). Tanking your hauler won't make it invulnerable, you may still lose the ship to a well set camp - but it will improve your chances and boost the costs for the gankers, 4k shield takes a while to chew through after all . Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
Taedrin Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2006.11.23 18:22:00 - [134] Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: Taedrin Actually, supposedly you can shrink wrap your cargo and cargo scanners (supposedly) won't see through it. Of course they may presume that if you went through the effort to shrink wrap it, it has to be something good. But that's why you should go around hauling shrinkwrapped trit every once inawhile, just to watch suicide gate campers get popped for .1m¦ of trit What is shrink wrap of cargo? I don't unserstand. A shrink wrapped package is created when you create a courier mission. The items that you enter into the courier mission are all packaged together into one parcel (the shrink wrapped form). The parcel is not a container, but a unique item so (theoretically) scanners can't see through it. When shrink wrapping items, make sure that the courier missions is made to be available ONLY to you.
Henry Loenwind	Posted - 2006.11.23 18:30:00 - [135] So now you learned another lesson: Never try to tell noobs what is not safe in EVE---you'll be flamed to death by all those forum idiots.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 18:30:00 - [136] Edited by: Debaro Zeir on 23/11/2006 18:30:10 Originally by: scabbsssjr If your goods are in cargo cans. I am 99% sure thay can't be scanned, meaning they won't know if your worth attacking or not. As noticed twice before in this topic cargo ship scanner showing contaners cargo as well as ship cargo. So that is 1% :-). And BTW my cargo was in cargo conts.
Di Jiensai Gallente Myster0ns	Posted - 2006.11.23 19:06:00 - [137] Originally by: Debaro Zeir I don't know how to use that kind of experience in RL :-). But atacker loosing 0.5 of ss also. I don't know how much time need to gain it. The attacker looses 0.2 security, which takes roughly 1 hour ratting in 0.0 space to recover. --- The Story of the Big-Bad-Nos-Domi and the Brutix Selfproclaimed last instance on Rightousness Issues
Allen Deckard Gallente WTB Supplies	Posted - 2006.11.23 19:14:00 - [138] k now the man has learned not to fly what he cant afford to loose. But then again now he has no isk. So only thing he can afford to loose is an ibis. This makes making isk near impossible. Kind of a catch 22 :)
ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.23 20:04:00 - [139] Originally by: Debaro Zeir If posting a mail ensure you correctly snip the name of the player who killed you - Xorus You can't lost all you have when you piloting war ships. Course you have insurance. You can't lost all when you are mining, corse you have insuranse. But you can lost all when you trading. I'm have now this experience and just want to tell you about, seems that will be useful for beginner traders. You can lost all everywhere when you trading. Noone can protect your cargo. Nor your corp, CONCORD or your gang. Coruse you are at "High security" system. My Badger Mark II was destroyed in Kisogo system (SECURITI LEVEL 1.0). Higest security level system. Atacker was destroyed by CONCORD but I lost goods ~400 mils ISK. That was almost ALL my money, I made for 1.5 month of trading. That is equalent for 3 month TimeCode. I spent many many hours flying from one system to another. From one to another. And always was flying at "high sec" systems. And lost it all at once in 1.0 system. How that can be? Lets see a CONCORD letter: 2006.11.23 09:18 ----------------------- Victim: ******* Alliance: NONE Corp: State War Academy Destroyed: Badger Mark II System: Kisogo Security: 1.0 Involved parties: Name: snip (laid the final blow) Security: 1.5 Alliance: snip Corp: snip Ship: Raven Weapon: Bane Torpedo Destroyed items: Nanofiber Internal Structure I Giant Secure Container (Cargo) Nocxium, Qty: 89305 Nocxium, Qty: 300695 Nanofiber Internal Structure I Giant Secure Container (Cargo) Nocxium, Qty: 390000 ----------- This must be a day when I made first good money using my existing money. But instead I lost them all. That was my tool to produce new ISKs. When you loosing ship you can buy some lower ship by insurance payment. When you lost goods you can't do anything. Fu****g life. Attackers just fit: 1. Some t1 torpedo lauchers 2. Target painter 3. Some shield extenders/damage controls 4. Warp scrambler 5. Passive targeter. Them lost: 1. 20 mils for insurance payment. 2. 5-10 mils for t1 fitting 3. 0.5 security status You can't evade possible destroying in ANY place in the game. If you have trading using industrial. Every industrial with 100mils+ cargo is potential victim. Keep in mind - THERE IS NO SAFE SYSTEMS. Keep in mind everytime. There is no method to evade this. If you have 500+ mils cargo and good fitting your industrial them just can lost 2 ships and get your cargo. Every player can destroy up to 4 ship in "highsec" 80 mils to lost vs possiblitty to get 200-500mils - good enought? If you have more ss you can make this numbers 160 vs 400-1 bil and more. -------------------- Just remember - there is no safe systems when you trading. To trade safe you need spent here 4 month and use transport ships. P.S. if you willing to help me to reimburse some lost money I'm accept donations. I'm do not need much of money just 100-150mils to restore my business. If you will donate me even 1 isk - I'll feel less sad about my loose. Thank you and good luck. Welcome to the purpose of Transport Ships. Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
Epidemis	Posted - 2006.11.23 20:17:00 - [140] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 23/11/2006 12:52:28 How does a 3 month old character earn 600M ISKs? This char is 1 month old and I have the balance of 100m isk, dont think it's impossible to get 600M in 3 months.
Big Al The Aftermath	Posted - 2006.11.23 22:02:00 - [141] Originally by: Bistot Kid All you'll get here is people calling you an idiot and telling you how wonderful and brave the Raven pilot who blew you up was. The goon was wonderful and brave. Bad show though, recyclable alts in catalysts is what we expect from you! Kill a farmer, win some isk!
Bistot Kid Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.23 22:54:00 - [142] Originally by: Sendraks Seriously, the worst posts in this thread are from the high and mighty types such as yourself and some earlier posters LOL. I call this "RL PVP" as it looks like it's wound you up a bit!
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.23 23:58:00 - [143] Originally by: PMolkenthin Solution 1) Use an elite industrial, with hardeners if possible. These tough little bas**rds are rarely bother by suicide gankers. Solution 2) If 1 is not an option, buy a set of instas (you wont need these soon) and use your alt to scout for you. Non-solution: 1) less than 3 mont - can't fly an elite industrial as he has trained trading, not shiphandling skills, and even more can't fit one as he has'n trained the complementari skills; 2) ista prices is about 100 mil for region, right? 25% of his total capital, and as a trader he would need more than 1 region, and to end it the ista will be nerfed in revelation, good move buyin them. Alt scouting in high security is useless. The gankers use passive targeting, and detecting them with 50-100 persons in local is next to impossible. Possible solution is a player board of know gankers names, to add to the buddy list, but that will add to lag. Can't get why the deleted name in the OP post. Seen plenty of names in the forums. Nothing against posting one in the rules. It is something new or only a overzealous moderator?
darkmancer	Posted - 2006.11.24 00:00:00 - [144] The loss sucks but that eve sometimes. It's a harsh game but its better for it. Though 1 thing that annoys me is that concorde doesnt pick up the can and take it to the nearest station. You should never be safe in eve, but you should expect the 'police' to work in a vaguely inteligent way. --------------------------------------------------------------- Navy Apoc For Sale! Bidding starts at 850 mil [url="http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=
IntegralHellsing Gallente Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.11.24 00:11:00 - [145] Shame on you, goonies! some lessons. 1. Never trust any solarsystem. be sure to fit passive tanks. 2. 1 WCS is helpful. 3. If you see someone (BS/Kessy) sitting on gate doing nothing, prepare to run. 4. perhaps use insta? ------------------------------
IroN HiDE GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.11.24 00:11:00 - [146] HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA Noob
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.24 00:18:00 - [147] Originally by: Debaro Zeir Edited by: Debaro Zeir on 23/11/2006 16:10:10 Originally by: Nimie this won't happen. the moment they see your nox they'll attack you. Just see kill letter carefully. My nocx was in conts, so this was just blind killing. I has only 7 cu vapor miner I in my cargo. Them could see only that. But he tries and completely loose his money. Them got ~3 mils from rest of cargo. But I was loose much more. From what I have found in others threads, nothing block cargo scanners.
Galimiy Portret R.u.S.H. - Fanatics	Posted - 2006.11.24 00:22:00 - [148] This same guys just killed my hauler with some stuff. Now, I understand the risk of EVE and bla bla bla, this is not the problem. The problem is that my KM is on Goon KB, but no loss mail for the raven the guy used. I am going to report this guy for exploiting because his ships should have been popped by CONCORD. And my mail is not the only one... http://killboard.goonfleet.com/player/Nurpicles ...now in RED
Marsha11 Bad Karma.	Posted - 2006.11.24 00:49:00 - [149] Edited by: Marsha11 on 24/11/2006 00:50:02 I posted on this thread earlier a pretty final and end of discussion comment. Now there is 4 (Edit: I just started page 5, what a joke...) pages of unessaccery whining because people cant learn once and for all if they expect to be able to haul millions or even billions of isk worth of stuff in a T1 hauler on auto pilot they are stupid and wrong. I stopped reading at the top of page 3 because i got so bored of reading about how someone isn't gonna get sleep tonight over some GAME money they lost that i contemplated starting a relief fund I dont know why i find it so annoying to be honest, its people that haul stuff around like they are the invincible Sultan of Jita that keep my wallet full so i can by endless high end faction mods for my ships... I think it might be something to do with the fact these threads of pointless drivel clutter up the forums and get in the way of all the interesting things people are trying to talk about. Can i just say to all the cry babies that think they should be able to haul this stuff around safely that my fellow gankers and I will be waiting at every **** high sec gate in every corner of EVE until you have nothing left to be worth the sec status... Good Day. End
Ogdru Jahad Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.24 07:13:00 - [150] They say that putting 200 bmsinto your cargo hold to lag out a scanner is a exploit. so what ya do is 500 seperate units of trit. -
arkarsk Provenance.	Posted - 2006.11.24 07:29:00 - [151] Originally by: Galimiy Portret This same guys just killed my hauler with some stuff. Now, I understand the risk of EVE and bla bla bla, this is not the problem. The problem is that my KM is on Goon KB, but no loss mail for the raven the guy used. I am going to report this guy for exploiting because his ships should have been popped by CONCORD. And my mail is not the only one... http://killboard.goonfleet.com/player/Nurpicles Check again 4 kills, 4 loss mails. Even with those there... people dont usually post lossmails from PvE, meaning a concord lossmail. Killboards are meant only to display pvp kills and losses. Dont be so quick to petition - its people like you that abuse and clog up an already strained system. -----------------
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:06:00 - [152] Originally by: Galimiy Portret This same guys just killed my hauler with some stuff. Now, I understand the risk of EVE and bla bla bla, this is not the problem. The problem is that my KM is on Goon KB, but no loss mail for the raven the guy used. I am going to report this guy for exploiting because his ships should have been popped by CONCORD. And my mail is not the only one... http://killboard.goonfleet.com/player/Nurpicles So goonfleet do not taking care about. Thanks.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:09:00 - [153] Originally by: Ogdru Jahad They say that putting 200 bmsinto your cargo hold to lag out a scanner is a exploit. so what ya do is 500 seperate units of trit. Thank you. Interesting idea :-).
Galimiy Portret R.u.S.H. - Fanatics	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:05:00 - [154] Edited by: Galimiy Portret on 24/11/2006 12:16:06 Edited by: Galimiy Portret on 24/11/2006 12:15:25 Edited by: Galimiy Portret on 24/11/2006 12:14:14 Edited by: Galimiy Portret on 24/11/2006 12:11:14 Edited by: Galimiy Portret on 24/11/2006 12:10:33 Edited by: Galimiy Portret on 24/11/2006 12:10:03 Originally by: arkarsk Originally by: Galimiy Portret This same guys just killed my hauler with some stuff. Now, I understand the risk of EVE and bla bla bla, this is not the problem. The problem is that my KM is on Goon KB, but no loss mail for the raven the guy used. I am going to report this guy for exploiting because his ships should have been popped by CONCORD. And my mail is not the only one... http://killboard.goonfleet.com/player/Nurpicles Check again 4 kills, 4 loss mails. Even with those there... people dont usually post lossmails from PvE, meaning a concord lossmail. Killboards are meant only to display pvp kills and losses. Dont be so quick to petition - its people like you that abuse and clog up an already strained system. Hmm, ganking a hauler in highsec is eligble for posting on the KB, while the subsequent ship loss is not? KB whorage anyone? Well, heres yesterday's screenshot of that KB where you can't actually see that part of page with losses, but you can see the losses count in battleships and it's exactly 4 less than today. So, somebody has been busy tonight digging old KMs up or, hmm, maybe making them!? Linkage! ...now in RED
NightmareX Caldari MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:29:00 - [155] Edited by: NightmareX on 24/11/2006 12:30:01 Originally by: IroN HiDE HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA Noob Ehhhm, don't call others for noob when you are noob by your self by not reading the forum signature rules.
Galimiy Portret R.u.S.H. - Fanatics	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:30:00 - [156] Bah! Now GM have cofirmed that he lost his Raven after attack on my hauler. **, I hoped I had caved out another dirty exploiter. Well, sorry for bothering you. ...now in RED**
Wotar	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:33:00 - [157] Edited by: Wotar on 24/11/2006 12:33:31 Originally by: Galimiy Portret Bah! Now GM have cofirmed that he lost his Raven after attack on my hauler. ****, I hoped I had caved out another dirty exploiter. Well, sorry for bothering you. Well done for clogging up the petition queue with unecessary rubbish
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:45:00 - [158] Originally by: Wotar Well done for clogging up the petition queue with unecessary rubbish Making sure griefers get justice is entirely necessary.
Angelic Resolution The Arcanum	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:47:00 - [159] Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it People like you are ***** retarded because apparently you didn't read his post properly. T1 haulers are the only thing available to characters two months or less. So please, come up with more bull: Keep it to yourself. Come up with something that is actually helpful to a person like this, post it. As for the person who said "Use a scout", traders are solo. Should they need to have a scout everywhere they go? As stated: No space is safe. Think about what you're posting before pressing the post button. Having to type out this ** to people time and time again is just mind numbing. As for the OP, if you can dude: fit RCU's in the lows and shield extenders in the highs or even fit ECM's. Don't bother with insta's, in Kali you get warp to 0km's so insta's will just be a waiste of time. It's either that or wait a month or two training up for T2 haulers. Might also try moving things around in a ferox fitted with large shield extenders + expanders/mwd. Other then that, I've got nothing.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:55:00 - [160] Originally by: Angelic Resolution As for the person who said "Use a scout", traders are solo. Really? Is this written down somewhere or is this just a lousy attempt to form an argument on your part? There is nothing to stop a trader getting someone to scout for them if they think there is a risk of being attacked at a gate by a pirate. Given that this sort of piracy occurs most commonly in or around certain systems, this seems like a sensible precaution, Originally by: Angelic Resolution Should they need to have a scout everywhere they go? Should they even play at all? Stop trying to make out that what people are suggesting is prescriptive. Originally by: Angelic Resolution Having to type out this **** to people time and time again is just mind numbing. Reading your post was mind numbing.
Wotar	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:13:00 - [161] Originally by: Raquel Smith Originally by: Wotar Well done for clogging up the petition queue with unecessary rubbish Making sure griefers get justice is entirely necessary. lol, the griefer word again. So anyone who you say is a griefer should be petitioned regardless of whether they've done anything wrong? GG.
D'Mur Pilru	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:31:00 - [162] After all this, it's pretty obvious really...just don't use petitions anymore. Eve = everything goes. If you find an advantage, use it. The rest needs to adapt. Total freedom for all!
rubarb 257	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:59:00 - [163] This is an exploit. Its an exploit because the player who picked up the cargo was on a seperate unrelated account in order to bypass system security. I would suggest the following to improve security in high sec systems 1) Dropped loot can only be picked up by the person destroyed ( in another ship ) or one of his corp mates. Picking up a can created during a criminal act should in itself be a criminal act. Anyone else picking up the can should be flagged as involved in the incident and should be dealt with by concord. 2) Stop Insurance Payments on Ships destroyed by Concord. This would go a long way to stop high sec Exploit Ganking.
Galimiy Portret R.u.S.H. - Fanatics	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:02:00 - [164] Hey, if you don't petition, nothing happens. Just look at that Angel plex sploit. Er, well, it wasn't fixed until someone put it up on the boards, but you get it -- action is required if you see something suspicious. I didn't see that Raven pop, so I petition it, if I would have seen it pop, I wouldn't have petitioned. I didn't petition because I was mad, but because i was like: "Huh, what happened to that Raven?". Also, I thought that offering 100mil BSes for a fun gank with no profit (all my valuable stuff was popped) was suspicious. You know, I am not in a position to do that my self. Oh, yea, and if any of you Goons are wondering where your alliances' funds are going, it's prolly funding your CEO's alt popping innocent haulers in BSes in high sec. ...now in RED
The Enslaver Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:04:00 - [165] There is no safe space. Only safer space. -------- It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:13:00 - [166] Originally by: rubarb 257 This is an exploit. No it is not. We could end the discussion here, because it is emphatically not an exploit. Originally by: rubarb 257 Its an exploit because the player who picked up the cargo was on a seperate unrelated account in order to bypass system security. Oh noes, there are other people on other accounts doing stuff in an MMORPG! This is a multi-player game. Forming a "group" or "team" to undertake an act of piracy can hardly be considered an exploit. The idea of high sec security is to stop attacks (or act as a deterrent) against other vessels, not to protect people's cargo. Originally by: rubarb 257 1) I would suggest the following to improve security in high sec systems Dropped loot can only be picked up by the person destroyed ( in another ship ) or one of his corp mates. Picking up a can created during a criminal act should in itself be a criminal act. Anyone else picking up the can should be flagged as involved in the incident and should be dealt with by concord. No. No. No. There were some good ideas as to how sotlen cargo could be handled in the other thread on this issue. Having anyone who steals cargo automatically attacked by Concord is beyond stupid. The ideal should be to make this kind of high sec piracy more difficult, with greater overheads, than it currently has. Not remove it from the game completely. High sec should not be safe, but it should be difficult to do piracy in. Originally by: rubarb 257 2) Stop Insurance Payments on Ships destroyed by Concord. Yes. Yes. Yes. Originally by: rubarb 257 This would go a long way to stop high sec Exploit Ganking. Its high sec piracy. Resorting to the use of the words "exploit" "ganking" or "griefing" just undermines your argument.
Laythun Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:20:00 - [167] wow people really hate them high sec pirates.. Hmm i guess i'll be in jita tonight 'camping' CEI's own Undercover Brother It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö
rubarb 257	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:24:00 - [168] I belive in RL it would be classed as handling stolen goods and it would end you in a lot of grief with the law. More likely it would be classed as you were involved in the robbery. Point is at the moment stolen cago's can be picked up under concords noses and they do nothing. The argument as to whether its called an exploit or not is irrelevant. The point is taking someone elses goods should be a criminal act. I aint saying stop piracy - I am saying punish the offenders when it happens in high sec.
Marsha11 Bad Karma.	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:27:00 - [169] Originally by: Galimiy Portret Bah! Now GM have cofirmed that he lost his Raven after attack on my hauler. ****, I hoped I had caved out another dirty exploiter. Well, sorry for bothering you. Thanks clogging up the queue with your waste of space petition. If it isn't enough that you clog the forums and waste our time you have to go and waste the dev's time too... Hauler killing in high sec empire is not an exploit. I have done it many times and nine times out of ten the fool who gets popped does one or more of the following. 1. Sends me hatemail. 2. Has a quick whine in local. 3. Posts a thread about how their life's posesions were in the hauler. 4. Files a petition for being 'exploited'. Number 1 goes straight to corp mail so we can all laugh it, number 2 brings a smile to my face for the rest of the day, number 3 clutters the forums on a topic no one cares about and number 4 gets them a response from the Dev's saying that hauler ganking is not an exploit and that they do not ban hauler killers unless there are trial accounts being used by the killer or the hauler scooping the loot, they then add they hope you recover from your loss (I think its policy to be nice). Hense i recieve no slap on the wrist, no ban, no warning and as such set up another battleship and make myself even more money. Its a good life End
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:32:00 - [170] Originally by: rubarb 257 I belive in RL it would be classed as handling stolen goods and it would end you in a lot of grief with the law. More likely it would be classed as you were involved in the robbery. Point is at the moment stolen cago's can be picked up under concords noses and they do nothing. The argument as to whether its called an exploit or not is irrelevant. The point is taking someone elses goods should be a criminal act. I aint saying stop piracy - I am saying punish the offenders when it happens in high sec. RL comparisons are silly and useless. Its a game. Also, said it before and I'll say it again: Your definition of 'griefer' and 'exploit' do not matter. They are completely insignificant. The only definition of these things that matter is CCP's. Is their game, they decide what's allowed and what's not. You're perfectly within your rights to say you disagree with the way things work, but CCP get the final say. Stop saying things are exploits, and people are griefers, when they're not.
D'Mur Pilru	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:36:00 - [171] Originally by: Marsha11 Hauler killing in high sec empire is not an exploit. Well, it's a good thing then that he didn't petition the killing off the hauler, but the fact that he thought the Raven got waway without being Concorded. People who can't read put a smile on my face, and if they put it on the board, we all have a good laugh about it.
Marsha11 Bad Karma.	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:40:00 - [172] Originally by: D'Mur Pilru Originally by: Marsha11 Hauler killing in high sec empire is not an exploit. Well, it's a good thing then that he didn't petition the killing off the hauler, but the fact that he thought the Raven got waway without being Concorded. People who can't read put a smile on my face, and if they put it on the board, we all have a good laugh about it. Suppose it was a valid petition, i always go down with my ship, even im not that low... Plus i hate ratting my sec status back up 'shudders'. Most boring day of my life once a month. End
Galimiy Portret R.u.S.H. - Fanatics	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:42:00 - [173] Originally by: D'Mur Pilru Originally by: Marsha11 Hauler killing in high sec empire is not an exploit. Well, it's a good thing then that he didn't petition the killing off the hauler, but the fact that he thought the Raven got waway without being Concorded. People who can't read put a smile on my face, and if they put it on the board, we all have a good laugh about it. What he said. Hehe. Btw, those things were gonna used in RA space for fighting and since Goons and RA are allied, that guy just shot himself in the foot. Well, okay it wasn't written all other my alt that he's an RA alt. So, meh... ...now in RED
D'Mur Pilru	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:43:00 - [174] Originally by: Marsha11 Suppose it was a valid petition, i always go down with my ship, even im not that low... And if anyone should ever think someone is cheating, they shouldn't petition, because we all know that noone ever acts cheap in Eve. Honour being so important to all 30000 players; right? Why are you in his face because he petitioned what he thought was at fault? Got something to hide perchance?
Marsha11 Bad Karma.	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:52:00 - [175] Originally by: D'Mur Pilru Originally by: Marsha11 Suppose it was a valid petition, i always go down with my ship, even im not that low... And if anyone should ever think someone is cheating, they shouldn't petition, because we all know that noone ever acts cheap in Eve. Honour being so important to all 30000 players; right? Why are you in his face because he petitioned what he thought was at fault? Got something to hide perchance? Im not in HIS face in particular, i must admit i didn't take in what he filed the petition for at first hense my correction. End
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:54:00 - [176] Originally by: rubarb 257 Point is at the moment stolen cago's can be picked up under concords noses and they do nothing. Thats because its not their job. What should happen is the cargo be flagged as stolen. If anyone carrying the cargo runs into a Customs Patrol, the cargo is confisicated, they get fined and take a sec hit. If the theif is wily enough to evade customs patrols, they can make off with the loot, especially if they can get it out to low sec. I agree that there should be a system in place to make it difficult to escape with stolen cargo, but it shouldn't prevent it happening entirely. Originally by: rubarb 257 The argument as to whether its called an exploit or not is irrelevant. Its entirely relevant when you claim its an exploit. Commiting a criminal act in eve is one thing, labelling it an "exploit" is something else. Originally by: rubarb 257 The point is taking someone elses goods should be a criminal act. Yes, and the necessary mechanics do exist within game for a player to get revenge for that criminal act. However, I do think these could be improved. Originally by: rubarb 257 I aint saying stop piracy - I am saying punish the offenders when it happens in high sec. You can only punish someone if they are caught. Right now, people lose their ships to Concord for this kind of piracy but I garee that they shouldn't get their insurance back. People should be punished for having stolen cargo "if" they are caught. There should always be a way to avoid being caught within the game mechanics.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.24 15:43:00 - [177] Originally by: Rojita I think being able to attack anybody anywhere is an acceptable design choice. Being able to make a profit out of attacking players you don't know is NOT an acceptable design. Brain......hurting. Argument.....nonsensical........ Originally by: Rojita There should not be any game rewards for ruining the experience of other players. Agree. And as I understand it, there are clear rules on what is determined griefing by CCP and those players who do grief others receive punishment.
Laythun Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.24 15:45:00 - [178] Originally by: Rojita I think being able to attack anybody anywhere is an acceptable design choice. Being able to make a profit out of attacking players you don't know is NOT an acceptable design. There should not be any game rewards for ruining the experience of other players. so i should have to gank and pirate my friends?? are u crazy? Listen, 'ruining' the experience of other players is what pvp is all about. if u dont want that then u should be play X3 or some other single player non pvp game. CEI's own Undercover Brother It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö
Galimiy Portret R.u.S.H. - Fanatics	Posted - 2006.11.24 16:04:00 - [179] Well, thanks guys for a nice discussion, I have to fly off, need to shave my armpits. Fly safe. ...now in RED
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.24 16:06:00 - [180] Originally by: Galimiy Portret Fly safe. Shave safe!
Pinpisa Jormao	Posted - 2006.11.24 23:40:00 - [181] Train to Freighter (5-6 weeks) if you do high sec cargo trucking of valuable stuff. No one will even bother trying to blow you up (except on very rare occasions) since freighters do not drop any loot. Other than that, depending on how much you need to carry, here are few better options: executioner, Large cargospace frigate, Battleship or Sigil t1 industrial with instas or warp to 0km 1-2 warp core stabilizers 3-4 inertial stabilizers (expanders)
Wendat Huron Lupus Industries	Posted - 2006.11.25 00:14:00 - [182] Hey mod guy, the killers name is still in the original post, read it all.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.25 00:28:00 - [183] Originally by: Pinpisa Jormao Train to Freighter (5-6 weeks) if you do high sec cargo trucking of valuable stuff. No one will even bother trying to blow you up (except on very rare occasions) since freighters do not drop any loot. Other than that, depending on how much you need to carry, here are few better options: executioner, Large cargospace frigate, Battleship or Sigil t1 industrial with instas or warp to 0km 1-2 warp core stabilizers 3-4 inertial stabilizers (expanders) Yes, but good fight ships ccan't carry much of cargo. So no good trading untill I'll have trasport.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.25 00:29:00 - [184] Originally by: Wendat Huron Hey mod guy, the killers name is still in the original post, read it all. It is not in killmail, so I can tell it in the rest of the post
Olghraah	Posted - 2006.11.25 07:48:00 - [185] I'm also in trading, and carry often 500m or more, (and have earned 1.5 bil in 2,5 months of trading). As it comes my cargo usually fits in a kestrel and i use that to transport, nobody takes notice of those. Ow and always make it a tough cookie to ***** so fit a good tank and dont forget those resistances.
FreelancerAlpha	Posted - 2006.11.25 09:18:00 - [186] Warp to 0 will solve a lot of this, but I dont think thats what the thread is about. Frankly I would have worded it another way: Pirates are carebears. They get insurance, they get the safe secure knowledge that a newby cant retaliate. They get to fly around in alts knowing that nobody who can afford to war dec is going to be their target. Traders on the other hand, put it all on the line. They have to generate massive capital, then they have to work hard to protect it. Comments like "You should have used an elite industrial" are somewhat stupid. If a trader is spending all his money on his ship like a pvper, where do his margins go? You cant expect a very new character to have a lot of money AND a really good setup. Do I have sympathy for him? Not really. He got what comes to ya when you develop a false sense of security. However his point is valid. Until pirates can stop being supplied by alts, the highest riskers in the 'verse are the traders. (I mean real traders. Screw you npc traders)
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.25 11:20:00 - [187] Originally by: FreelancerAlpha Warp to 0 will solve a lot of this, but I dont think thats what the thread is about. Frankly I would have worded it another way: Pirates are carebears. They get insurance, they get the safe secure knowledge that a newby cant retaliate. They get to fly around in alts knowing that nobody who can afford to war dec is going to be their target. Traders on the other hand, put it all on the line. They have to generate massive capital, then they have to work hard to protect it. Comments like "You should have used an elite industrial" are somewhat stupid. If a trader is spending all his money on his ship like a pvper, where do his margins go? You cant expect a very new character to have a lot of money AND a really good setup. Do I have sympathy for him? Not really. He got what comes to ya when you develop a false sense of security. However his point is valid. Until pirates can stop being supplied by alts, the highest riskers in the 'verse are the traders. (I mean real traders. Screw you npc traders) Yes you are got it all :-). But one thing - transport cost 45 mils, so that is not very expenive ship. But I can't operate it yet, course I'm a newbie :-). Seems only one good solution is instas as you say - warp to 0 or <2500m to gate. Will see. Only one my horror now - Jita undocking from 4-4 CNAP - there sometimes great lags, so my ship can be scanned/killed just on undock :-). In "high security" system. And as I can't activate damage controls/shield hardeners that is a problem. Seem I'll move my goods to another stations by portions of 50 mils and then will use instas.
Archangel Raphael	Posted - 2006.11.25 11:33:00 - [188] Atacker was destroyed by CONCORD but I lost goods ~400 mils ISK. That was almost ALL my money, I made for 1.5 month of trading. "That is equalent for 3 month TimeCode." the words between the quotation marks are the ones i really only noticed. so based on that line, are u someone that sells isk for game time codes? then im glad u lost all ure money,
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.25 11:48:00 - [189] Originally by: Archangel Raphael Atacker was destroyed by CONCORD but I lost goods ~400 mils ISK. That was almost ALL my money, I made for 1.5 month of trading. "That is equalent for 3 month TimeCode." the words between the quotation marks are the ones i really only noticed. so based on that line, are u someone that sells isk for game time codes? then im glad u lost all ure money, So you will be cursed by yourself feelings course that is gloating delight. You mistaked - I'm not selling ISKs. I'm making them, by moving goods from one place to another. From place where goods do not needed to place where them need. That is like blood and oxygen moving - I'm one of red corpuscle making gamers life easer, prices lower and goods - avaible. You are glady? May be your life path will be finished by leucaemia then.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.25 12:00:00 - [190] Originally by: Olghraah I'm also in trading, and carry often 500m or more, (and have earned 1.5 bil in 2,5 months of trading). As it comes my cargo usually fits in a kestrel and i use that to transport, nobody takes notice of those. Ow and always make it a tough cookie to ***** so fit a good tank and dont forget those resistances. btw as I spotted Condor good choice if you has < 150m of cargo course it flying 2800m/sec in MWD. Probe is good for <350m of cargo and flying 1800 m/sec. At this speeds ship will be hard to scanned and hard to attack by any weapon course gate aproaching time is 7-10 secs :-).
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.11.25 17:22:00 - [191] "Of course you can. But did you expect it to be risk free?" I don;t know why is it everytime this rubbish comes up it seems the risk needs to always be placed squarely on the transporters shoulders? Please detail to me exactly where the risk comes into play for the suicide gankers, who sit there camped out at gates, with everyone with the brain pee sized and larger passing them by knowing they are suicide gankers waiting for a hauler yet they can do nothing because concord protects them...This is a broken game mechanic PERIOD end of story and CCP needs to adress this utter BS. These players sit there in npc corps 100% protected and untouchable waititng for some sap in a hauler who even if he was escorted would still be a sitting duck. You cannot initiate combat on the gankers and you cannot war dec them, you cannot get revenge, ( they use alts ). So tell me again why is it okay for them to get to play eve with no risk? CCP fix this crap make scanning cargo a hostile action that concord pwns you for doing... I mean lets get real there is only 1 reason cargo gets scanned in empire and that is to decide if you are carrying enough to make you worth ganking, so I fail to see why it shouldnt be a hostile action flagging you to players and concord. then these empire gankers can also share part of the "risk" for once.
Nemon v3 Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2006.11.25 17:39:00 - [192] Ok guys, alot of *****ing here. This is EVE - great game. If you wana play "safe" go play game with "orcs" (we all know the name). This is what we lost - and accept it as nothing happen and move on. EMPIRE is suppose to be MORE secure, but RISK FREE? No. You need to always be aware - like in real life, you can get killed anywhere, anytime. -------------------------- 006.07.25 10:26 Victim: xxxxx Alliance: D-L Corp: Dark and Light inc. Destroyed: Bestower System: Niarja Security: 0.5 Involved parties: Name: black momba (laid the final blow) Security: 0.7 Alliance: None Corp: harrasment ltd. Ship: Raven Weapon: Devastator Cruise Missile Destroyed items: Civilian Shield Booster I 10MN Afterburner II Miner I Type-D Altered SS Overdrive Injector (Cargo) Type-D Altered SS Overdrive Injector (Cargo) Ship Scanner I Beta Hull Mod Expanded Cargo Zydrine, Qty: 1100000 (Cargo) -----------------------------------
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.26 11:54:00 - [193] Originally by: Nemon v3 Ok guys, alot of *****ing here. This is EVE - great game. If you wana play "safe" go play game with "orcs" (we all know the name). This is what we lost - and accept it as nothing happen and move on. EMPIRE is suppose to be MORE secure, but RISK FREE? No. You need to always be aware - like in real life, you can get killed anywhere, anytime. -------------------------- 006.07.25 10:26 Victim: xxxxx Alliance: D-L Corp: Dark and Light inc. Destroyed: Bestower System: Niarja Security: 0.5 Zydrine, Qty: 1100000 (Cargo) ----------------------------------- I'm very impressed. Seems my lost is 1/10 of yours. But compared to RL punishment system in EVE very soft. If you making in RL same crime twice - you are will be applies more hard punishment. But in eve only SS exist and when you killed another ship you can raise back your SS just in hour. So that just prevent "whole" noobie killing :-)
Jelly Heed	Posted - 2006.11.26 12:17:00 - [194] Originally by: Nemon v3 Ok guys, alot of *****ing here. This is EVE - great game. If you wana play "safe" go play game with "orcs" (we all know the name). This is what we lost - and accept it as nothing happen and move on. EMPIRE is suppose to be MORE secure, but RISK FREE? No. You need to always be aware - like in real life, you can get killed anywhere, anytime. W.O.W. yeah looks like it may be better now all the back stabbing, atack only if i am guaranteed to win, shoot you in the back while yr hunting types have all come over to eve, the original poster got screwd big time what a suportive comunity you are give him a break.................
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.26 13:42:00 - [195] Lol... I love these threads... makes me want to go out and high-sec gank... Because I said so...

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