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Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:12:00 - [31] Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant All the information and tools are available to you but by your own will, you chose to ingore them and only come to the forums when something bad happened to you. Reading this forum is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay.
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:12:00 - [32] Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant All the information and tools are available to you but by your own will, you chose to ingore them and only come to the forums when something bad happened to you. Reading this forum is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:13:00 - [33] Originally by: Raquel Smith Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant All the information and tools are available to you but by your own will, you chose to ingore them and only come to the forums when something bad happened to you. Reading this forum is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay. It can make a useful substitute for common sense for those lacking any, however. ---------- IBTL \o/ It's great being in ur forums mixing ur memes, ain't it?
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:13:00 - [34] Originally by: Raquel Smith Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant All the information and tools are available to you but by your own will, you chose to ingore them and only come to the forums when something bad happened to you. Reading this forum is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay. It can make a useful substitute for common sense for those lacking any, however. ---------- IBTL \o/ It's great being in ur forums mixing ur memes, ain't it?
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:13:00 - [35] Originally by: Raquel Smith Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant All the information and tools are available to you but by your own will, you chose to ingore them and only come to the forums when something bad happened to you. Reading this forum is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay. It can make a useful substitute for common sense for those lacking any, however. ---------- IBTL \o/ It's great being in ur forums mixing ur memes, ain't it?
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:14:00 - [36] Originally by: James Snowscoran 3. Use an escort. A couple cruisers would have been able to protect you just fine- provided they are in the same corp as the hauler, they can guard the can that drops after a gank from getting scooped by a hostile hauler. Most highsec gankers would, faced with a hauler with escort, realize they can't make any money from popping it and let it pass. Rubbish. By the time the cruisers have time to respond the lethal volley is in flight and it's too late except for helping out CONCORD. Guarding a can is pointless since a ship can align, loot, and instawarp to a station.
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:14:00 - [37] Originally by: James Snowscoran 3. Use an escort. A couple cruisers would have been able to protect you just fine- provided they are in the same corp as the hauler, they can guard the can that drops after a gank from getting scooped by a hostile hauler. Most highsec gankers would, faced with a hauler with escort, realize they can't make any money from popping it and let it pass. Rubbish. By the time the cruisers have time to respond the lethal volley is in flight and it's too late except for helping out CONCORD. Guarding a can is pointless since a ship can align, loot, and instawarp to a station.
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:14:00 - [38] Originally by: James Snowscoran 3. Use an escort. A couple cruisers would have been able to protect you just fine- provided they are in the same corp as the hauler, they can guard the can that drops after a gank from getting scooped by a hostile hauler. Most highsec gankers would, faced with a hauler with escort, realize they can't make any money from popping it and let it pass. Rubbish. By the time the cruisers have time to respond the lethal volley is in flight and it's too late except for helping out CONCORD. Guarding a can is pointless since a ship can align, loot, and instawarp to a station.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:15:00 - [39] Originally by: D'Mur Pilru The fact that he set out to shoot a hauler makes this a predetermined. the fact that the opportunity then presents itself is detached from the notion predetermined/opportunistic. Not at all. If people didn't fly around in T1 haulers with millions of ISK worth of stuff, there simply wouldn't be the opportunity. Originally by: D'Mur Pilru If I set out to steal a car with a lockpick and pliers, the opportunity will hence present itself by default. If the opportunity were to never be present, the predetermination would be non-existant. This comparison is not valid. What you're actually set out to do is to steal a car loaded with gold bullion. Not a security van, but a regular car loaded with stuff that far exceeds the value of the car itself. Originally by: D'Mur Pilru I'm not saying that the act is right or wrong, just that you don't have to make it out like the ganker just happened to pass by with his mate, accidently scanned the cargo, and took his shot. He set out to make that shot. He set out to make the shot, but could only make the shot should someone present them with the opportunity to do so. Because the whole basis of the operation is based on another player presenting the opportunity of a) flying a poorly fitted ship that is b) loaded with millions of ISK worth of cargo, it is opportunistic. There are no guarantees that any ship fitting those criteria will come through the gate. You could have the same set up that patrols a number of systems looking for a similar target. This is still opportunistic, but the act of patrolling those systems is still premeditated.
KingAc Minmatar North Star Networks	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:15:00 - [40] Only noobs drives stuff woth over 50mille isk in a tech 1 indy this days.

KingAc Minmatar North Star Networks	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:15:00 - [41] Only noobs drives stuff woth over 50mille isk in a tech 1 indy this days.
KingAc Minmatar North Star Networks	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:15:00 - [42] Only noobs drives stuff woth over 50mille isk in a tech 1 indy this days.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:15:00 - [43] Originally by: D'Mur Pilru The fact that he set out to shoot a hauler makes this a predetermined. the fact that the opportunity then presents itself is detached from the notion predetermined/opportunistic. Not at all. If people didn't fly around in T1 haulers with millions of ISK worth of stuff, there simply wouldn't be the opportunity. Originally by: D'Mur Pilru If I set out to steal a car with a lockpick and pliers, the opportunity will hence present itself by default. If the opportunity were to never be present, the predetermination would be non-existant. This comparison is not valid. What you're actually set out to do is to steal a car loaded with gold bullion. Not a security van, but a regular car loaded with stuff that far exceeds the value of the car itself. Originally by: D'Mur Pilru I'm not saying that the act is right or wrong, just that you don't have to make it out like the ganker just happened to pass by with his mate, accidently scanned the cargo, and took his shot. He set out to make that shot. He set out to make the shot, but could only make the shot should someone present them with the opportunity to do so. Because the whole basis of the operation is based on another player presenting the opportunity of a) flying a poorly fitted ship that is b) loaded with millions of ISK worth of cargo, it is opportunistic. There are no guarantees that any ship fitting those criteria will come through the gate. You could have the same set up that patrols a number of systems looking for a similar target. This is still opportunistic, but the act of patrolling those systems is still premeditated.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:15:00 - [44] Originally by: D'Mur Pilru The fact that he set out to shoot a hauler makes this a predetermined. the fact that the opportunity then presents itself is detached from the notion predetermined/opportunistic. Not at all. If people didn't fly around in T1 haulers with millions of ISK worth of stuff, there simply wouldn't be the opportunity. Originally by: D'Mur Pilru If I set out to steal a car with a lockpick and pliers, the opportunity will hence present itself by default. If the opportunity were to never be present, the predetermination would be non-existant. This comparison is not valid. What you're actually set out to do is to steal a car loaded with gold bullion. Not a security van, but a regular car loaded with stuff that far exceeds the value of the car itself. Originally by: D'Mur Pilru I'm not saying that the act is right or wrong, just that you don't have to make it out like the ganker just happened to pass by with his mate, accidently scanned the cargo, and took his shot. He set out to make that shot. He set out to make the shot, but could only make the shot should someone present them with the opportunity to do so. Because the whole basis of the operation is based on another player presenting the opportunity of a) flying a poorly fitted ship that is b) loaded with millions of ISK worth of cargo, it is opportunistic. There are no guarantees that any ship fitting those criteria will come through the gate. You could have the same set up that patrols a number of systems looking for a similar target. This is still opportunistic, but the act of patrolling those systems is still premeditated.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:17:00 - [45] Originally by: Raquel Smith ECM is worthless when griefers use passive targeters and badger 2s take upwards of 45 seconds to target something. The only thing to do is fit passive shield hardeners and shield extenders and hope for the best. I'm thinking about damage control system, course badger have more armor then shield. Warp stabs is useless, course industrials is very slow going to warp. So damage control + passive shield hardeners+shield booster/shield boost apmlifier?
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:17:00 - [46] Originally by: Raquel Smith ECM is worthless when griefers use passive targeters and badger 2s take upwards of 45 seconds to target something. The only thing to do is fit passive shield hardeners and shield extenders and hope for the best. I'm thinking about damage control system, course badger have more armor then shield. Warp stabs is useless, course industrials is very slow going to warp. So damage control + passive shield hardeners+shield booster/shield boost apmlifier?
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:17:00 - [47] Originally by: Raquel Smith ECM is worthless when griefers use passive targeters and badger 2s take upwards of 45 seconds to target something. The only thing to do is fit passive shield hardeners and shield extenders and hope for the best. I'm thinking about damage control system, course badger have more armor then shield. Warp stabs is useless, course industrials is very slow going to warp. So damage control + passive shield hardeners+shield booster/shield boost apmlifier?
Ortu Konsinni KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:18:00 - [48] Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it I can't operate transport yet. So I can't be a trader first 4 month o gaming. Now I'm know that. Just for the record... Skill requirements for Transport Ships: Industry V Racial Industrial V That's a month of training, maximum. That's a month during which you should not be at risk of losing hundreds of millions of ISK flying a tech 1 hauler, since, as a new player, you won't have the means to accrue those hundreds of millions of ISK worth of assets. Once you have the skills for transport ships, flying a freighter is an extra week away. With your transport ship, you can safely trade and make money to afford that freighter. Plus you're already Caldari -- the Bustard is an awesome ship and the Charon is the biggest freighter there is. I'm not saying all that to nag you, just pointing out that training for transport ships does not take 4 months and is very, very much worth it if you carry expensive stuff. I then expanded on that. I understand that you've suffered a heavy loss and that you would've preferred the above knowledge be imparted to you beforehand, but it can't be helped. Anyway, learn and adapt, some things in life are better learned through experience than theory. You'll be fine. Anyway, a good setup for a Badger involves shield hardeners (1 EM, 2 invuln fields for example), as many small or medium shield extenders as you can fit, maybe a 10MN Afterburner, but you should have instas anyway, so you shouldn't need the afterburner. --- High quality pics of ALL EVE ships!
Ortu Konsinni KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:18:00 - [49] Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it I can't operate transport yet. So I can't be a trader first 4 month o gaming. Now I'm know that. Just for the record... Skill requirements for Transport Ships: Industry V Racial Industrial V That's a month of training, maximum. That's a month during which you should not be at risk of losing hundreds of millions of ISK flying a tech 1 hauler, since, as a new player, you won't have the means to accrue those hundreds of millions of ISK worth of assets. Once you have the skills for transport ships, flying a freighter is an extra week away. With your transport ship, you can safely trade and make money to afford that freighter. Plus you're already Caldari -- the Bustard is an awesome ship and the Charon is the biggest freighter there is. I'm not saying all that to nag you, just pointing out that training for transport ships does not take 4 months and is very, very much worth it if you carry expensive stuff. I then expanded on that. I understand that you've suffered a heavy loss and that you would've preferred the above knowledge be imparted to you beforehand, but it can't be helped. Anyway, learn and adapt, some things in life are better learned through experience than theory. You'll be fine. Anyway, a good setup for a Badger involves shield hardeners (1 EM, 2 invuln fields for example), as many small or medium shield extenders as you can fit, maybe a 10MN Afterburner, but you should have instas anyway, so you shouldn't need the afterburner. --- High quality pics of ALL EVE ships!
Ortu Konsinni KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:18:00 - [50] Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it I can't operate transport yet. So I can't be a trader first 4 month o gaming. Now I'm know that. Just for the record... Skill requirements for Transport Ships: Industry V Racial Industrial V That's a month of training, maximum. That's a month during which you should not be at risk of losing hundreds of millions of ISK flying a tech 1 hauler, since, as a new player, you won't have the means to accrue those hundreds of millions of ISK worth of assets. Once you have the skills for transport ships, flying a freighter is an extra week away. With your transport ship, you can safely trade and make money to afford that freighter. Plus you're already Caldari -- the Bustard is an awesome ship and the Charon is the biggest freighter there is. I'm not saying all that to nag you, just pointing out that training for transport ships does not take 4 months and is very, very much worth it if you carry expensive stuff. I then expanded on that. I understand that you've suffered a heavy loss and that you would've preferred the above knowledge be imparted to you beforehand, but it can't be helped. Anyway, learn and adapt, some things in life are better learned through experience than theory. You'll be fine. Anyway, a good setup for a Badger involves shield hardeners (1 EM, 2 invuln fields for example), as many small or medium shield extenders as you can fit, maybe a 10MN Afterburner, but you should have instas anyway, so you shouldn't need the afterburner. --- High quality pics of ALL EVE ships!

IDesert FoxI	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:21:00 - [51] Sorry to hear your loss, but EVE is cruel like that. If you make a mistake, or run into a bad crowd, then you will feel the pain. Its happened to all of us. Just the other week I lost 700mil when testing the tank on my friends Hulk mining barge. I got distracted and it went pop, but you just have to move on and enjoy earning all the money again. EVE is unfair, and that level of unpredictability makes it fun.
IDesert FoxI	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:21:00 - [52] Sorry to hear your loss, but EVE is cruel like that. If you make a mistake, or run into a bad crowd, then you will feel the pain. Its happened to all of us. Just the other week I lost 700mil when testing the tank on my friends Hulk mining barge. I got distracted and it went pop, but you just have to move on and enjoy earning all the money again. EVE is unfair, and that level of unpredictability makes it fun.
IDesert FoxI	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:21:00 - [53] Sorry to hear your loss, but EVE is cruel like that. If you make a mistake, or run into a bad crowd, then you will feel the pain. Its happened to all of us. Just the other week I lost 700mil when testing the tank on my friends Hulk mining barge. I got distracted and it went pop, but you just have to move on and enjoy earning all the money again. EVE is unfair, and that level of unpredictability makes it fun.
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:21:00 - [54] Originally by: Ortu Konsinni Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it I can't operate transport yet. So I can't be a trader first 4 month o gaming. Now I'm know that. Just for the record... Skill requirements for Transport Ships: Industry V Racial Industrial V That's a month of training, maximum. That's a month during which you should not be at risk of losing hundreds of millions of ISK flying a tech 1 hauler, since, as a new player, you won't have the means to accrue those hundreds of millions of ISK worth of assets. And during the time he's training for a transport ship he's not training trading skills which will permit him to actually afford the transport ship or have anything to put in it.
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:21:00 - [55] Originally by: Ortu Konsinni Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it I can't operate transport yet. So I can't be a trader first 4 month o gaming. Now I'm know that. Just for the record... Skill requirements for Transport Ships: Industry V Racial Industrial V That's a month of training, maximum. That's a month during which you should not be at risk of losing hundreds of millions of ISK flying a tech 1 hauler, since, as a new player, you won't have the means to accrue those hundreds of millions of ISK worth of assets. And during the time he's training for a transport ship he's not training trading skills which will permit him to actually afford the transport ship or have anything to put in it.
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:21:00 - [56] Originally by: Ortu Konsinni Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it I can't operate transport yet. So I can't be a trader first 4 month o gaming. Now I'm know that. Just for the record... Skill requirements for Transport Ships: Industry V Racial Industrial V That's a month of training, maximum. That's a month during which you should not be at risk of losing hundreds of millions of ISK flying a tech 1 hauler, since, as a new player, you won't have the means to accrue those hundreds of millions of ISK worth of assets. And during the time he's training for a transport ship he's not training trading skills which will permit him to actually afford the transport ship or have anything to put in it.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:23:00 - [57] Originally by: James Snowscoran 1. Use a scout. Have him look out for suspicious hauler/battleship pairs lurking around high-traffic gates. When you was last time in empire? Such pairs is lurking around almost EVERY gate on popular trade paths. I'm see them everywhere. Yellow. Yellow with bounty. But got killed by guy with good security. Originally by: James Snowscoran 2. Use several haulers. If you had shipped 400 mill in 4 separate badger mark 2s, the ganker should only be able to pop one before concord nukes him. Nor when I need to transport somthing 20-30 jumps and return :-). Originally by: James Snowscoran 3. Use an escort. A couple cruisers would have been able to protect you just fine- provided they are in the same corp as the hauler, they can guard the can that drops after a gank from getting scooped by a hostile hauler. Most highsec gankers would, faced with a hauler with escort, realize they can't make any money from popping it and let it pass. My cargo just burns up as you can see in kill letter :-). Them lost some money too, making unporffitable killing.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:23:00 - [58] Originally by: James Snowscoran 1. Use a scout. Have him look out for suspicious hauler/battleship pairs lurking around high-traffic gates. When you was last time in empire? Such pairs is lurking around almost EVERY gate on popular trade paths. I'm see them everywhere. Yellow. Yellow with bounty. But got killed by guy with good security. Originally by: James Snowscoran 2. Use several haulers. If you had shipped 400 mill in 4 separate badger mark 2s, the ganker should only be able to pop one before concord nukes him. Nor when I need to transport somthing 20-30 jumps and return :-). Originally by: James Snowscoran 3. Use an escort. A couple cruisers would have been able to protect you just fine- provided they are in the same corp as the hauler, they can guard the can that drops after a gank from getting scooped by a hostile hauler. Most highsec gankers would, faced with a hauler with escort, realize they can't make any money from popping it and let it pass. My cargo just burns up as you can see in kill letter :-). Them lost some money too, making unporffitable killing.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:23:00 - [59] Originally by: James Snowscoran 1. Use a scout. Have him look out for suspicious hauler/battleship pairs lurking around high-traffic gates. When you was last time in empire? Such pairs is lurking around almost EVERY gate on popular trade paths. I'm see them everywhere. Yellow. Yellow with bounty. But got killed by guy with good security. Originally by: James Snowscoran 2. Use several haulers. If you had shipped 400 mill in 4 separate badger mark 2s, the ganker should only be able to pop one before concord nukes him. Nor when I need to transport somthing 20-30 jumps and return :-). Originally by: James Snowscoran 3. Use an escort. A couple cruisers would have been able to protect you just fine- provided they are in the same corp as the hauler, they can guard the can that drops after a gank from getting scooped by a hostile hauler. Most highsec gankers would, faced with a hauler with escort, realize they can't make any money from popping it and let it pass. My cargo just burns up as you can see in kill letter :-). Them lost some money too, making unporffitable killing.
Big Al The Aftermath	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:24:00 - [60] Looks like you learned a 400m isk lesson to not transport 400m isk worth of stuff in a ship that costs 700k Kill a farmer, win some isk!



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