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arkarsk Provenance.	Posted - 2006.11.24 07:29:00 - [151] Originally by: Galimiy Portret This same guys just killed my hauler with some stuff. Now, I understand the risk of EVE and bla bla bla, this is not the problem. The problem is that my KM is on Goon KB, but no loss mail for the raven the guy used. I am going to report this guy for exploiting because his ships should have been popped by CONCORD. And my mail is not the only one... http://killboard.goonfleet.com/player/Nurpicles Check again 4 kills, 4 loss mails. Even with those there... people dont usually post lossmails from PvE, meaning a concord lossmail. Killboards are meant only to display pvp kills and losses. Dont be so quick to petition - its people like you that abuse and clog up an already strained system. -----------------
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:06:00 - [152] Originally by: Galimiy Portret This same guys just killed my hauler with some stuff. Now, I understand the risk of EVE and bla bla bla, this is not the problem. The problem is that my KM is on Goon KB, but no loss mail for the raven the guy used. I am going to report this guy for exploiting because his ships should have been popped by CONCORD. And my mail is not the only one... http://killboard.goonfleet.com/player/Nurpicles So goonfleet do not taking care about. Thanks.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:09:00 - [153] Originally by: Ogdru Jahad They say that putting 200 bmsinto your cargo hold to lag out a scanner is a exploit. so what ya do is 500 seperate units of trit. Thank you. Interesting idea :-).
Galimiy Portret R.u.S.H. - Fanatics	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:05:00 - [154] Edited by: Galimiy Portret on 24/11/2006 12:16:06 Edited by: Galimiy Portret on 24/11/2006 12:15:25 Edited by: Galimiy Portret on 24/11/2006 12:14:14 Edited by: Galimiy Portret on 24/11/2006 12:11:14 Edited by: Galimiy Portret on 24/11/2006 12:10:33 Edited by: Galimiy Portret on 24/11/2006 12:10:03 Originally by: arkarsk Originally by: Galimiy Portret This same guys just killed my hauler with some stuff. Now, I understand the risk of EVE and bla bla bla, this is not the problem. The problem is that my KM is on Goon KB, but no loss mail for the raven the guy used. I am going to report this guy for exploiting because his ships should have been popped by CONCORD. And my mail is not the only one... http://killboard.goonfleet.com/player/Nurpicles Check again 4 kills, 4 loss mails. Even with those there... people dont usually post lossmails from PvE, meaning a concord lossmail. Killboards are meant only to display pvp kills and losses. Dont be so quick to petition - its people like you that abuse and clog up an already strained system. Hmm, ganking a hauler in highsec is eligble for posting on the KB, while the subsequent ship loss is not? KB whorage anyone? Well, heres yesterday's screenshot of that KB where you can't actually see that part of page with losses, but you can see the losses count in battleships and it's exactly 4 less than today. So, somebody has been busy tonight digging old KMs up or, hmm, maybe making them!? Linkage! ...now in RED
NightmareX Caldari MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:29:00 - [155] Edited by: NightmareX on 24/11/2006 12:30:01 Originally by: IroN HiDE HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA Noob Ehhhm, don't call others for noob when you are noob by your self by not reading the forum signature rules.
Galimiy Portret R.u.S.H. - Fanatics	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:30:00 - [156] Bah! Now GM have cofirmed that he lost his Raven after attack on my hauler. **, I hoped I had caved out another dirty exploiter. Well, sorry for bothering you. ...now in RED**
Wotar	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:33:00 - [157] Edited by: Wotar on 24/11/2006 12:33:31 Originally by: Galimiy Portret Bah! Now GM have cofirmed that he lost his Raven after attack on my hauler. ****, I hoped I had caved out another dirty exploiter. Well, sorry for bothering you. Well done for clogging up the petition queue with unecessary rubbish
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:45:00 - [158] Originally by: Wotar Well done for clogging up the petition queue with unecessary rubbish Making sure griefers get justice is entirely necessary.
Angelic Resolution The Arcanum	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:47:00 - [159] Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! if you own 400+mills you can afford a good T2 hauler and fitting on it People like you are ***** retarded because apparently you didn't read his post properly. T1 haulers are the only thing available to characters two months or less. So please, come up with more bull: Keep it to yourself. Come up with something that is actually helpful to a person like this, post it. As for the person who said "Use a scout", traders are solo. Should they need to have a scout everywhere they go? As stated: No space is safe. Think about what you're posting before pressing the post button. Having to type out this ** to people time and time again is just mind numbing. As for the OP, if you can dude: fit RCU's in the lows and shield extenders in the highs or even fit ECM's. Don't bother with insta's, in Kali you get warp to 0km's so insta's will just be a waiste of time. It's either that or wait a month or two training up for T2 haulers. Might also try moving things around in a ferox fitted with large shield extenders + expanders/mwd. Other then that, I've got nothing.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:55:00 - [160] Originally by: Angelic Resolution As for the person who said "Use a scout", traders are solo. Really? Is this written down somewhere or is this just a lousy attempt to form an argument on your part? There is nothing to stop a trader getting someone to scout for them if they think there is a risk of being attacked at a gate by a pirate. Given that this sort of piracy occurs most commonly in or around certain systems, this seems like a sensible precaution, Originally by: Angelic Resolution Should they need to have a scout everywhere they go? Should they even play at all? Stop trying to make out that what people are suggesting is prescriptive. Originally by: Angelic Resolution Having to type out this **** to people time and time again is just mind numbing. Reading your post was mind numbing.
Wotar	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:13:00 - [161] Originally by: Raquel Smith Originally by: Wotar Well done for clogging up the petition queue with unecessary rubbish Making sure griefers get justice is entirely necessary. lol, the griefer word again. So anyone who you say is a griefer should be petitioned regardless of whether they've done anything wrong? GG.
D'Mur Pilru	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:31:00 - [162] After all this, it's pretty obvious really...just don't use petitions anymore. Eve = everything goes. If you find an advantage, use it. The rest needs to adapt. Total freedom for all!
rubarb 257	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:59:00 - [163] This is an exploit. Its an exploit because the player who picked up the cargo was on a seperate unrelated account in order to bypass system security. I would suggest the following to improve security in high sec systems 1) Dropped loot can only be picked up by the person destroyed ( in another ship ) or one of his corp mates. Picking up a can created during a criminal act should in itself be a criminal act. Anyone else picking up the can should be flagged as involved in the incident and should be dealt with by concord. 2) Stop Insurance Payments on Ships destroyed by Concord. This would go a long way to stop high sec Exploit Ganking.
Galimiy Portret R.u.S.H. - Fanatics	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:02:00 - [164] Hey, if you don't petition, nothing happens. Just look at that Angel plex sploit. Er, well, it wasn't fixed until someone put it up on the boards, but you get it -- action is required if you see something suspicious. I didn't see that Raven pop, so I petition it, if I would have seen it pop, I wouldn't have petitioned. I didn't petition because I was mad, but because i was like: "Huh, what happened to that Raven?". Also, I thought that offering 100mil BSes for a fun gank with no profit (all my valuable stuff was popped) was suspicious. You know, I am not in a position to do that my self. Oh, yea, and if any of you Goons are wondering where your alliances' funds are going, it's prolly funding your CEO's alt popping innocent haulers in BSes in high sec. ...now in RED
The Enslaver Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:04:00 - [165] There is no safe space. Only safer space. -------- It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:13:00 - [166] Originally by: rubarb 257 This is an exploit. No it is not. We could end the discussion here, because it is emphatically not an exploit. Originally by: rubarb 257 Its an exploit because the player who picked up the cargo was on a seperate unrelated account in order to bypass system security. Oh noes, there are other people on other accounts doing stuff in an MMORPG! This is a multi-player game. Forming a "group" or "team" to undertake an act of piracy can hardly be considered an exploit. The idea of high sec security is to stop attacks (or act as a deterrent) against other vessels, not to protect people's cargo. Originally by: rubarb 257 1) I would suggest the following to improve security in high sec systems Dropped loot can only be picked up by the person destroyed ( in another ship ) or one of his corp mates. Picking up a can created during a criminal act should in itself be a criminal act. Anyone else picking up the can should be flagged as involved in the incident and should be dealt with by concord. No. No. No. There were some good ideas as to how sotlen cargo could be handled in the other thread on this issue. Having anyone who steals cargo automatically attacked by Concord is beyond stupid. The ideal should be to make this kind of high sec piracy more difficult, with greater overheads, than it currently has. Not remove it from the game completely. High sec should not be safe, but it should be difficult to do piracy in. Originally by: rubarb 257 2) Stop Insurance Payments on Ships destroyed by Concord. Yes. Yes. Yes. Originally by: rubarb 257 This would go a long way to stop high sec Exploit Ganking. Its high sec piracy. Resorting to the use of the words "exploit" "ganking" or "griefing" just undermines your argument.
Laythun Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:20:00 - [167] wow people really hate them high sec pirates.. Hmm i guess i'll be in jita tonight 'camping' CEI's own Undercover Brother It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö
rubarb 257	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:24:00 - [168] I belive in RL it would be classed as handling stolen goods and it would end you in a lot of grief with the law. More likely it would be classed as you were involved in the robbery. Point is at the moment stolen cago's can be picked up under concords noses and they do nothing. The argument as to whether its called an exploit or not is irrelevant. The point is taking someone elses goods should be a criminal act. I aint saying stop piracy - I am saying punish the offenders when it happens in high sec.
Marsha11 Bad Karma.	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:27:00 - [169] Originally by: Galimiy Portret Bah! Now GM have cofirmed that he lost his Raven after attack on my hauler. ****, I hoped I had caved out another dirty exploiter. Well, sorry for bothering you. Thanks clogging up the queue with your waste of space petition. If it isn't enough that you clog the forums and waste our time you have to go and waste the dev's time too... Hauler killing in high sec empire is not an exploit. I have done it many times and nine times out of ten the fool who gets popped does one or more of the following. 1. Sends me hatemail. 2. Has a quick whine in local. 3. Posts a thread about how their life's posesions were in the hauler. 4. Files a petition for being 'exploited'. Number 1 goes straight to corp mail so we can all laugh it, number 2 brings a smile to my face for the rest of the day, number 3 clutters the forums on a topic no one cares about and number 4 gets them a response from the Dev's saying that hauler ganking is not an exploit and that they do not ban hauler killers unless there are trial accounts being used by the killer or the hauler scooping the loot, they then add they hope you recover from your loss (I think its policy to be nice). Hense i recieve no slap on the wrist, no ban, no warning and as such set up another battleship and make myself even more money. Its a good life End
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:32:00 - [170] Originally by: rubarb 257 I belive in RL it would be classed as handling stolen goods and it would end you in a lot of grief with the law. More likely it would be classed as you were involved in the robbery. Point is at the moment stolen cago's can be picked up under concords noses and they do nothing. The argument as to whether its called an exploit or not is irrelevant. The point is taking someone elses goods should be a criminal act. I aint saying stop piracy - I am saying punish the offenders when it happens in high sec. RL comparisons are silly and useless. Its a game. Also, said it before and I'll say it again: Your definition of 'griefer' and 'exploit' do not matter. They are completely insignificant. The only definition of these things that matter is CCP's. Is their game, they decide what's allowed and what's not. You're perfectly within your rights to say you disagree with the way things work, but CCP get the final say. Stop saying things are exploits, and people are griefers, when they're not.
D'Mur Pilru	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:36:00 - [171] Originally by: Marsha11 Hauler killing in high sec empire is not an exploit. Well, it's a good thing then that he didn't petition the killing off the hauler, but the fact that he thought the Raven got waway without being Concorded. People who can't read put a smile on my face, and if they put it on the board, we all have a good laugh about it.
Marsha11 Bad Karma.	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:40:00 - [172] Originally by: D'Mur Pilru Originally by: Marsha11 Hauler killing in high sec empire is not an exploit. Well, it's a good thing then that he didn't petition the killing off the hauler, but the fact that he thought the Raven got waway without being Concorded. People who can't read put a smile on my face, and if they put it on the board, we all have a good laugh about it. Suppose it was a valid petition, i always go down with my ship, even im not that low... Plus i hate ratting my sec status back up 'shudders'. Most boring day of my life once a month. End
Galimiy Portret R.u.S.H. - Fanatics	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:42:00 - [173] Originally by: D'Mur Pilru Originally by: Marsha11 Hauler killing in high sec empire is not an exploit. Well, it's a good thing then that he didn't petition the killing off the hauler, but the fact that he thought the Raven got waway without being Concorded. People who can't read put a smile on my face, and if they put it on the board, we all have a good laugh about it. What he said. Hehe. Btw, those things were gonna used in RA space for fighting and since Goons and RA are allied, that guy just shot himself in the foot. Well, okay it wasn't written all other my alt that he's an RA alt. So, meh... ...now in RED
D'Mur Pilru	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:43:00 - [174] Originally by: Marsha11 Suppose it was a valid petition, i always go down with my ship, even im not that low... And if anyone should ever think someone is cheating, they shouldn't petition, because we all know that noone ever acts cheap in Eve. Honour being so important to all 30000 players; right? Why are you in his face because he petitioned what he thought was at fault? Got something to hide perchance?
Marsha11 Bad Karma.	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:52:00 - [175] Originally by: D'Mur Pilru Originally by: Marsha11 Suppose it was a valid petition, i always go down with my ship, even im not that low... And if anyone should ever think someone is cheating, they shouldn't petition, because we all know that noone ever acts cheap in Eve. Honour being so important to all 30000 players; right? Why are you in his face because he petitioned what he thought was at fault? Got something to hide perchance? Im not in HIS face in particular, i must admit i didn't take in what he filed the petition for at first hense my correction. End
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:54:00 - [176] Originally by: rubarb 257 Point is at the moment stolen cago's can be picked up under concords noses and they do nothing. Thats because its not their job. What should happen is the cargo be flagged as stolen. If anyone carrying the cargo runs into a Customs Patrol, the cargo is confisicated, they get fined and take a sec hit. If the theif is wily enough to evade customs patrols, they can make off with the loot, especially if they can get it out to low sec. I agree that there should be a system in place to make it difficult to escape with stolen cargo, but it shouldn't prevent it happening entirely. Originally by: rubarb 257 The argument as to whether its called an exploit or not is irrelevant. Its entirely relevant when you claim its an exploit. Commiting a criminal act in eve is one thing, labelling it an "exploit" is something else. Originally by: rubarb 257 The point is taking someone elses goods should be a criminal act. Yes, and the necessary mechanics do exist within game for a player to get revenge for that criminal act. However, I do think these could be improved. Originally by: rubarb 257 I aint saying stop piracy - I am saying punish the offenders when it happens in high sec. You can only punish someone if they are caught. Right now, people lose their ships to Concord for this kind of piracy but I garee that they shouldn't get their insurance back. People should be punished for having stolen cargo "if" they are caught. There should always be a way to avoid being caught within the game mechanics.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.24 15:43:00 - [177] Originally by: Rojita I think being able to attack anybody anywhere is an acceptable design choice. Being able to make a profit out of attacking players you don't know is NOT an acceptable design. Brain......hurting. Argument.....nonsensical........ Originally by: Rojita There should not be any game rewards for ruining the experience of other players. Agree. And as I understand it, there are clear rules on what is determined griefing by CCP and those players who do grief others receive punishment.
Laythun Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.24 15:45:00 - [178] Originally by: Rojita I think being able to attack anybody anywhere is an acceptable design choice. Being able to make a profit out of attacking players you don't know is NOT an acceptable design. There should not be any game rewards for ruining the experience of other players. so i should have to gank and pirate my friends?? are u crazy? Listen, 'ruining' the experience of other players is what pvp is all about. if u dont want that then u should be play X3 or some other single player non pvp game. CEI's own Undercover Brother It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö
Galimiy Portret R.u.S.H. - Fanatics	Posted - 2006.11.24 16:04:00 - [179] Well, thanks guys for a nice discussion, I have to fly off, need to shave my armpits. Fly safe. ...now in RED
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.24 16:06:00 - [180] Originally by: Galimiy Portret Fly safe. Shave safe!

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