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High security systems is a fake

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Big Al The Aftermath	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:24:00 - [61] Looks like you learned a 400m isk lesson to not transport 400m isk worth of stuff in a ship that costs 700k Kill a farmer, win some isk!
Big Al The Aftermath	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:24:00 - [62] Looks like you learned a 400m isk lesson to not transport 400m isk worth of stuff in a ship that costs 700k Kill a farmer, win some isk!
Ortu Konsinni KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:25:00 - [63] Edited by: Ortu Konsinni on 23/11/2006 13:26:06 Originally by: Raquel Smith And during the time he's training for a transport ship he's not training trading skills which will permit him to actually afford the transport ship or have anything to put in it. Oh please. You can get around fine with mid-range levels in trading skills that are trained quickly, at least in the beginning. The rest is up to the player -- give priority to your safety (transport ships) or your ability to get more ISK in a given amount of time (trading skills). --- High quality pics of ALL EVE ships!
Ortu Konsinni KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:25:00 - [64] Edited by: Ortu Konsinni on 23/11/2006 13:26:06 Originally by: Raquel Smith And during the time he's training for a transport ship he's not training trading skills which will permit him to actually afford the transport ship or have anything to put in it. Oh please. You can get around fine with mid-range levels in trading skills that are trained quickly, at least in the beginning. The rest is up to the player -- give priority to your safety (transport ships) or your ability to get more ISK in a given amount of time (trading skills). --- High quality pics of ALL EVE ships!
Sean Dillon Caldari Snakes in a Pod	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:26:00 - [65] That must have been a good laugh for the goon pilot.
Sean Dillon Caldari Snakes in a Pod	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:26:00 - [66] That must have been a good laugh for the goon pilot.
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:26:00 - [67] Originally by: Raquel Smith Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant All the information and tools are available to you but by your own will, you chose to ingore them and only come to the forums when something bad happened to you. Reading this forum is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay. No, all this information is also available by talking to people ingame, but for those who don't talk to many people ingame, the forums are another place to gain information. What you seem to be saying is: 'Knowledge is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay.', in which case I strongly disagree.
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:26:00 - [68] Originally by: Raquel Smith Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant All the information and tools are available to you but by your own will, you chose to ingore them and only come to the forums when something bad happened to you. Reading this forum is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay. No, all this information is also available by talking to people ingame, but for those who don't talk to many people ingame, the forums are another place to gain information. What you seem to be saying is: 'Knowledge is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay.', in which case I strongly disagree.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:29:00 - [69] Originally by: Ortu Konsinni Just for the record... Skill requirements for Transport Ships: Industry V Racial Industrial V That's a month of training, maximum. That's a month during which you should not be at risk of losing hundreds of millions of ISK flying a tech 1 hauler, since, as a new player, you won't have the means to accrue those hundreds of millions of ISK worth of assets. Once you have the skills for transport ships, flying a freighter is an extra week away. With your transport ship, you can safely trade and make money to afford that freighter. Plus you're already Caldari -- the Bustard is an awesome ship and the Charon is the biggest freighter there is. I'm not saying all that to nag you, just pointing out that training for transport ships does not take 4 months and is very, very much worth it if you carry expensive stuff. I then expanded on that. I understand that you've suffered a heavy loss and that you would've preferred the above knowledge be imparted to you beforehand, but it can't be helped. Anyway, learn and adapt, some things in life are better learned through experience than theory. You'll be fine. Anyway, a good setup for a Badger involves shield hardeners (1 EM, 2 invuln fields for example), as many small or medium shield extenders as you can fit, maybe a 10MN Afterburner, but you should have instas anyway, so you shouldn't need the afterburner. I mean trader - not trasporter. I'm complete learning skills not much time ago. Also to be a trader I need to learn retail/broker relations/etc - I'm made most money not by transporting but but buying/reselling. That is eats orders :-). But when I have now enought money to make some fast 5-10% deals I'm got killed... Seems I need to spent extra month to learn transport ships and then continue... And yes, use instants. Good lesson anyway, but that is so hard to beging everythinh from nothing...
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:29:00 - [70] Originally by: Ortu Konsinni Just for the record... Skill requirements for Transport Ships: Industry V Racial Industrial V That's a month of training, maximum. That's a month during which you should not be at risk of losing hundreds of millions of ISK flying a tech 1 hauler, since, as a new player, you won't have the means to accrue those hundreds of millions of ISK worth of assets. Once you have the skills for transport ships, flying a freighter is an extra week away. With your transport ship, you can safely trade and make money to afford that freighter. Plus you're already Caldari -- the Bustard is an awesome ship and the Charon is the biggest freighter there is. I'm not saying all that to nag you, just pointing out that training for transport ships does not take 4 months and is very, very much worth it if you carry expensive stuff. I then expanded on that. I understand that you've suffered a heavy loss and that you would've preferred the above knowledge be imparted to you beforehand, but it can't be helped. Anyway, learn and adapt, some things in life are better learned through experience than theory. You'll be fine. Anyway, a good setup for a Badger involves shield hardeners (1 EM, 2 invuln fields for example), as many small or medium shield extenders as you can fit, maybe a 10MN Afterburner, but you should have instas anyway, so you shouldn't need the afterburner. I mean trader - not trasporter. I'm complete learning skills not much time ago. Also to be a trader I need to learn retail/broker relations/etc - I'm made most money not by transporting but but buying/reselling. That is eats orders :-). But when I have now enought money to make some fast 5-10% deals I'm got killed... Seems I need to spent extra month to learn transport ships and then continue... And yes, use instants. Good lesson anyway, but that is so hard to beging everythinh from nothing...

AlleyKat Gallente The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:36:00 - [71] High Security IRL does not equal total security. So long as people are prepared to pay for the consequences of their actions - they will commit crimes. Another point to make is this: if no one risked anything in Jita etc in T1 haulers, then the gates would not be camped with gankers...think about it. If you want revenge, you do have kill rights - or you could hire a mercenary to hunt them down Recruiting!
AlleyKat Gallente The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:36:00 - [72] High Security IRL does not equal total security. So long as people are prepared to pay for the consequences of their actions - they will commit crimes. Another point to make is this: if no one risked anything in Jita etc in T1 haulers, then the gates would not be camped with gankers...think about it. If you want revenge, you do have kill rights - or you could hire a mercenary to hunt them down Recruiting!
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:43:00 - [73] Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: Marsha11 Shame i wasn't there i would have killed you too. 'Do not fly what you cant afford to loose' That applies to any system in game... Eve just not friendly for traders. I can't protect my cargo by NPC or PC escort, can't insure it etc. Fighter will never loose all course it always have insurance. Only if they fly t1 only, which for a trader is like flying around with a cargohold of veldspar. Run around with faction stuff, insurance does very little, same as for running around transporting a full load of nocx. And it's HIGH!!! security... can you read that. HIGH security... it doesn't say GOD MODE, or globe of major invunerability, or invunerabilitiy shield, or what have you. It says higher then low security security. Which is what you got, cops that arrive too late to do anything meaningful, while the smart criminal gets away with the loot.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:43:00 - [74] Originally by: Debaro Zeir Originally by: Marsha11 Shame i wasn't there i would have killed you too. 'Do not fly what you cant afford to loose' That applies to any system in game... Eve just not friendly for traders. I can't protect my cargo by NPC or PC escort, can't insure it etc. Fighter will never loose all course it always have insurance. Only if they fly t1 only, which for a trader is like flying around with a cargohold of veldspar. Run around with faction stuff, insurance does very little, same as for running around transporting a full load of nocx. And it's HIGH!!! security... can you read that. HIGH security... it doesn't say GOD MODE, or globe of major invunerability, or invunerabilitiy shield, or what have you. It says higher then low security security. Which is what you got, cops that arrive too late to do anything meaningful, while the smart criminal gets away with the loot.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:02:00 - [75] Originally by: Debaro Zeir ...My Badger Mark II... 1 million ISK Originally by: Debaro Zeir ...almost ALL my money... ~400 million ISK Originally by: Debaro Zeir Just remember there is no safe systems when you trading. PRICELESS Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in?
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:07:00 - [76] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Debaro Zeir ...My Badger Mark II... 1 million ISK Actually 3.5 mils - badger, 2 conts and t2 afterburner.
Bistot Kid Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:17:00 - [77] I do feel very sorry for you mate. All you'll get here is people calling you an idiot and telling you how wonderful and brave the Raven pilot who blew you up was. Pick up and start again, don't let them make you leave Eve. Shame on GoonFleet though. I always had you down as some ballsy guys who were taking on the big established alliances, not using your huge power to bully the little guy.
Zebler Four Horsemen	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:18:00 - [78] Suicide Raven: 6 T1 torp launchers, with 4 t1 BCU. 2 t1 painters, web, sensor booster, cargo scanner, passive targetter Damage control in the remaining low slot With reasonable skills they are going to hit for around 700 dmg per torp. ROF is about 10 seconds. Ship will last to concord for about 20 seconds, so thats 3 salvos. 3x6x700= 12,600 dmg Please don't tell people to tank a T1 hauler, it just doesn't work. Also, please don't think I am a high sec ganker. I prefer combat against people who are ready to fight back......
Baleorg Gallente Guys of Sarcasm	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:23:00 - [79] Originally by: radiogaga and you mistake is "Destroyed: Badger Mark II" NEVER HAUL EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE STUFF IN T1 HAULERS !! "but it says badger II" so its not t1 right? ;) --- BTW: A GOOD Cache-Cleaner
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:24:00 - [80] Originally by: Bistot Kid All you'll get here is people calling you an idiot and telling you how wonderful and brave the Raven pilot who blew you up was. Why don't you read the thread first? Also, 1 pilot in Goonfleet != all of Goonfleet.

Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:29:00 - [81] Never haul more than what it costs to suicide you. Ever heard of making two runs, if you can't fly a transport or freighter? Or hiring a freighter for just a few million? Vix3n can help you with that. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Eilene Fernite	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:30:00 - [82] If you can't afford/fly a t2 hauler, pay someone else to haul your stuff for you. There's the player courier missions for that. After Kali, there'll be contracts. There is no reason why you have to fly around with 500 mil in a paper bag.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:31:00 - [83] Originally by: Bistot Kid All you'll get here is people calling you an idiot and telling you how wonderful and brave the Raven pilot who blew you up was. And the "making stuff up award goes to..." Seriously, the worst posts in this thread are from the high and mighty types such as yourself and some earlier posters, who are totally unable to see the useful information others have imparted. Sure people aren't being sympathetic, but then, why should they be? Many people here have not lost ships to high sec gate gankers because they did read the forums and did make preparations. When they do lose a ship, they don't come here and make out that "high sec is not safe" like its some whiny revelation. Plus, you also operate under the delusion that anyone who doesn't automatically sympathise with the OP like a mindless sheep, must be a "ebil piwate" of some sort. This is rarely the truth, but instead you find people are "pro-piracy" because it enriches their eve gameplay, even though they don't pirate themselves.
Max Teranous Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:36:00 - [84] Originally by: Raquel Smith Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant All the information and tools are available to you but by your own will, you chose to ingore them and only come to the forums when something bad happened to you. Reading this forum is not and should not be a prerequisite for safe gameplay. Maybe not, but the player guide certainly is a good thing to read: Originally by: player guide Don't expect CONCORD to keep you immune to attacks or ship losses. Like in the real world, law enforcers often arrive too late at the scene of the crime, and even though they able to punish the criminal, they can't always prevent the crime. High security does not = 100% safety. For example, the last T2 BPO BDCI bought was hauled in a CNR. Try to suicide that Max --------------------
DefJam101 Gallente Praxiteles Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:37:00 - [85] The OP was pretty lolz. Unless english ain't his first language. Either way don't "eggs in one basket" Plus you were too rich for your own good(at only 3 months) anyways =/ Im going on 5 and only have 90 mill, max of 150. ***
Giant Haystacks Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:43:00 - [86] Edited by: Giant Haystacks on 23/11/2006 14:44:03 A Badger II can easily be tanked to survive sucide Raven's. 3x Med Extender II 3x Invul II 2x PDU II Damage Control I 4076 sheild HP with average res of 72%, 1016 armor HP wilh avg res of 41 and 1016 structure hp with 50%. Thats about 18.3k effective hp, compared to 3.3k with no tank. A T1 fitted raven with max skills will do about 4.5k damage per volley, so the untanked badger gets instapopped but the tanked one needs 5 volleys, which the Raven can't fire before being killed by Concord.
Nimie	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:51:00 - [87] i haven't read most of this thread, since i doubt there's anything new, but to the op: sorry but live and learn. most of the people here would bend over and gladly and unknowningly let the eve guys give it to them from behind so you won't get anything useful arguing with them. anyone that belives that a 40 percent of ship cost penality and some time is enough to allows a system to be called high security must have sucked quite a bit.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:54:00 - [88] Originally by: Nimie most of the people here would bend over and gladly and unknowningly let the eve guys give it to them from behind so you won't get anything useful arguing with them. Obviously, because there is no chance that we could be correct in anyway at all.
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:58:00 - [89] Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant Why don't you read the thread first? Also, 1 pilot in Goonfleet != all of Goonfleet. Goonfleet CEO do not answer me yet. I'm waiting for his answer
Debaro Zeir	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:59:00 - [90] Originally by: Zebler Suicide Raven: 6 T1 torp launchers, with 4 t1 BCU. 2 t1 painters, web, sensor booster, cargo scanner, passive targetter Damage control in the remaining low slot With reasonable skills they are going to hit for around 700 dmg per torp. ROF is about 10 seconds. Ship will last to concord for about 20 seconds, so thats 3 salvos. 3x6x700= 12,600 dmg Please don't tell people to tank a T1 hauler, it just doesn't work. Also, please don't think I am a high sec ganker. I prefer combat against people who are ready to fight back...... Thank you. Very usefull estimation.



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