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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Matt Faithbringer
Red Horde Rising
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 16:20:09 -
[481] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:A Comprehensive Missile Balance Package (In addition to the proposed Aegis changes.)
Remove Kinetic Pigeon Holes GÇó Condor gets a +10% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Buzzard gets a +5% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Hookbill gets a +20% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Hawk gets a 10% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Corax gets a +5% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Flycatcher gets a +10% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Cerberus gets a +5% damage bonus to light, heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Onyx gets a +5% damage bonus to light, heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Rook gets a +7.5% damage bonus to light, heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Navy Osprey gets a +10% damage bonus to light, heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Drake gets a +5% rate of fire bonus to heavy and heavy assault missiles (it's already benefiting from the 5% heavy missile buff); this makes it comparable to the Raven in terms of relationship between Battlecruisers and Battleships. GÇó Nighthawk gets a +7.5% damage bonus to heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Tengu Accelerated Ejection subsystem gets a +5% missile damage bonus
Nerf Light Missiles; Buff Rockets; Buff Heavy Missiles; Buff Torpedoes; Buff Heavy Assault Missiles GÇó Swap the explosion velocity bonus between rockets (+20m/sec) and light missiles (-20m/sec) GÇó In addition to the 5% damage buff to heavy missiles, decrease the explosion radius on all heavy missiles by -5m and increase the explosion radius on all heavy missiles by +10m/sec. GÇó All torpedoes receive a -33% reduction in explosion radius (which gives them slightly better damage application over cruise missiles) GÇó All heavy assault missiles receive a +20% increase to explosion velocity and -5m reduction in explosion radius
Nerf Bomber Capacity GÇó Reduce cargo capacity by 50-100m3 (torpedoes just received a huge volume reduction and their damage application is increasing quite significantly)
New Faction Missile Modules GÇó Mordu's Legion Ballistic Control System: 15% missile ROF, 7.5% missile damage GÇó Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System (updated): 12.5% missile ROF, 10% missile damage GÇó Mordu's Legion Missile Guidance Enhancer: 5% explosion velocity, 5% explosion radius, 15% missile velocity, -15% missile flight time GÇó Caldari Navy Missile Guidance Computer: 7.5% explosion radius, 7.5% explosion velocity, 7.5% missile velocity, 7.5% missile flight time GÇó Republic Fleet Missile Guidance Computer: 7.5% explosion radius, 7.5% explosion velocity, 7.5% missile velocity, 7.5% missile flight time (At least the addition of Faction modules will offset the recent MGC/MGE 'nerf'.)
Mordus Legion Ship Changes GÇó All missile damage bonuses for Mordu's Legion ships change to ROF bonuses. This results in a slight nerf to the Orthrus when utilizing RLMLs and a slight buff to the Barghest when utilizing torpedoes or cruise missiles.
Missile Naga GÇó The Naga gets reverted back to a missile Battlecruiser (yes, it was a missile behemoth to begin with): 5% torpedo and cruise missile damage and 10% missile velocity per level.
man that would be nice.. |
Mario Putzo
1460
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Posted - 2015.06.29 16:22:29 -
[482] - Quote
=( Don't change my Naga! |
bunzing heet
Demon-War-Lords SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 16:25:12 -
[483] - Quote
Matt Faithbringer wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:A Comprehensive Missile Balance Package (In addition to the proposed Aegis changes.)
Remove Kinetic Pigeon Holes GÇó Condor gets a +10% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Buzzard gets a +5% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Hookbill gets a +20% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Hawk gets a 10% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Corax gets a +5% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Flycatcher gets a +10% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Cerberus gets a +5% damage bonus to light, heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Onyx gets a +5% damage bonus to light, heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Rook gets a +7.5% damage bonus to light, heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Navy Osprey gets a +10% damage bonus to light, heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Drake gets a +5% rate of fire bonus to heavy and heavy assault missiles (it's already benefiting from the 5% heavy missile buff); this makes it comparable to the Raven in terms of relationship between Battlecruisers and Battleships. GÇó Nighthawk gets a +7.5% damage bonus to heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Tengu Accelerated Ejection subsystem gets a +5% missile damage bonus
Nerf Light Missiles; Buff Rockets; Buff Heavy Missiles; Buff Torpedoes; Buff Heavy Assault Missiles GÇó Swap the explosion velocity bonus between rockets (+20m/sec) and light missiles (-20m/sec) GÇó In addition to the 5% damage buff to heavy missiles, decrease the explosion radius on all heavy missiles by -5m and increase the explosion radius on all heavy missiles by +10m/sec. GÇó All torpedoes receive a -33% reduction in explosion radius (which gives them slightly better damage application over cruise missiles) GÇó All heavy assault missiles receive a +20% increase to explosion velocity and -5m reduction in explosion radius
Nerf Bomber Capacity GÇó Reduce cargo capacity by 50-100m3 (torpedoes just received a huge volume reduction and their damage application is increasing quite significantly)
New Faction Missile Modules GÇó Mordu's Legion Ballistic Control System: 15% missile ROF, 7.5% missile damage GÇó Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System (updated): 12.5% missile ROF, 10% missile damage GÇó Mordu's Legion Missile Guidance Enhancer: 5% explosion velocity, 5% explosion radius, 15% missile velocity, -15% missile flight time GÇó Caldari Navy Missile Guidance Computer: 7.5% explosion radius, 7.5% explosion velocity, 7.5% missile velocity, 7.5% missile flight time GÇó Republic Fleet Missile Guidance Computer: 7.5% explosion radius, 7.5% explosion velocity, 7.5% missile velocity, 7.5% missile flight time (At least the addition of Faction modules will offset the recent MGC/MGE 'nerf'.)
Mordus Legion Ship Changes GÇó All missile damage bonuses for Mordu's Legion ships change to ROF bonuses. This results in a slight nerf to the Orthrus when utilizing RLMLs and a slight buff to the Barghest when utilizing torpedoes or cruise missiles.
Missile Naga GÇó The Naga gets reverted back to a missile Battlecruiser (yes, it was a missile behemoth to begin with): 5% torpedo and cruise missile damage and 10% missile velocity per level. man that would be nice..
All i can say is yes yes yes
Fly safe keep killing
And remember
I'm watching you !!!!
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Lisa Sophie d'Elancourt
Empusa.
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 16:50:45 -
[484] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:A Comprehensive Missile Balance Package (In addition to the proposed Aegis changes.)
Remove Kinetic Pigeon Holes GÇó Condor gets a +10% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Buzzard gets a +5% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Hookbill gets a +20% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Hawk gets a 10% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Corax gets a +5% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Flycatcher gets a +10% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Cerberus gets a +5% damage bonus to light, heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Onyx gets a +5% damage bonus to light, heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Rook gets a +7.5% damage bonus to light, heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Navy Osprey gets a +10% damage bonus to light, heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Drake gets a +5% rate of fire bonus to heavy and heavy assault missiles (it's already benefiting from the 5% heavy missile buff); this makes it comparable to the Raven in terms of relationship between Battlecruisers and Battleships. GÇó Nighthawk gets a +7.5% damage bonus to heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Tengu Accelerated Ejection subsystem gets a +5% missile damage bonus
Nerf Light Missiles; Buff Rockets; Buff Heavy Missiles; Buff Torpedoes; Buff Heavy Assault Missiles GÇó Swap the explosion velocity bonus between rockets (+20m/sec) and light missiles (-20m/sec) GÇó In addition to the 5% damage buff to heavy missiles, decrease the explosion radius on all heavy missiles by -5m and increase the explosion radius on all heavy missiles by +10m/sec. GÇó All torpedoes receive a -33% reduction in explosion radius (which gives them slightly better damage application over cruise missiles) GÇó All heavy assault missiles receive a +20% increase to explosion velocity and -5m reduction in explosion radius
Nerf Bomber Capacity GÇó Reduce cargo capacity by 50-100m3 (torpedoes just received a huge volume reduction and their damage application is increasing quite significantly)
New Faction Missile Modules GÇó Mordu's Legion Ballistic Control System: 15% missile ROF, 7.5% missile damage GÇó Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System (updated): 12.5% missile ROF, 10% missile damage GÇó Mordu's Legion Missile Guidance Enhancer: 5% explosion velocity, 5% explosion radius, 15% missile velocity, -15% missile flight time GÇó Caldari Navy Missile Guidance Computer: 7.5% explosion radius, 7.5% explosion velocity, 7.5% missile velocity, 7.5% missile flight time GÇó Republic Fleet Missile Guidance Computer: 7.5% explosion radius, 7.5% explosion velocity, 7.5% missile velocity, 7.5% missile flight time (At least the addition of Faction modules will offset the recent MGC/MGE 'nerf'.)
Mordus Legion Ship Changes GÇó All missile damage bonuses for Mordu's Legion ships change to ROF bonuses. This results in a slight nerf to the Orthrus when utilizing RLMLs and a slight buff to the Barghest when utilizing torpedoes or cruise missiles.
Missile Naga GÇó The Naga gets reverted back to a missile Battlecruiser (yes, it was a missile behemoth to begin with): 5% torpedo and cruise missile damage and 10% missile velocity per level.
Very nice suggestions. +1 |
probag Bear
Xiong Offices
80
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 17:12:07 -
[485] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:However i would take it one step further and actually just remove the Range benefit entirely to a second module. To me it seems like an unneeded adjustment for 1, and is probably the reason these modules look wonky numbers wise compared to TC's and TE's. This would give us 1 module type with the following.
7.5% ER and 7.5% EV
Scripted either 15% ER and 7.5% EV (100% increase to ER script) 7.5% ER and 15% EV (100% increase to EV script)
This allows a player to option between the 2 application variables depending on the nature of the engagement.
Is the target being measured in the Sig/ER calculation, use the ER script Is the target being measured in the Speed/EV calculation, use the EV script.
This functions much more closely to TCs and TEs. In the sense
ER is your Missiles Optimal Range, the smaller the better - The smaller the explosion radius the more likely a target is going to be hit by the "shockwave" caused by the missile compared to TC the larger your optimal range, the more likely you are to score a hit vs a target EV is your Missiles Tracking Speed. the larger the better - The faster the "shockwave" moves the more likely a target is going to take damage inside the radius. compared to TC the faster your tracking speed the more likely you are to score a more direct hit vs a target.
This man has a great point that I can't believe anyone's thought of so far.
Tracking computers don't increase absolute range, they increase effective range for the purposes of damage application. Let's say you have a turret with a range-scripted TC that hits for 110 at 50km and 80 at 100km. If you turn off the TC, you now hit for 100 at 50km and 50 at 100km. You don't hit for 0 at 100km, you just hit for less.
Missiles do not and can not work the same way. Either they hit targets at a certain range for full damage, or they hit for 0 damage. "Range" is far from the same concept for both weapon systems.
Take missile range out of MGEs and MGTs. It's only causing problems right now. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1487
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 17:30:57 -
[486] - Quote
So, you asked for more feedback. You've got it...it's fairly unanimous...will there be another revision, or do the poor turret users with percentile envy have the only voice on missile balance? |
Fourteen Maken
Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance
186
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 17:37:20 -
[487] - Quote
Before anything is done mordu's legion ships should be nerfed: make the hulls slower for a start, then either remove the point range bonus and keep scram range bonus as is... or remove the scram range bonus and reduce point range bonus to 5% per level.
Nerf light missile flight time by ~20%
No split bonuses on new missile modules because -15% explosion radius + 15% explosion velocity =/= +30% tracking due to the way the missile formula works.
Also +6% missile flight time +6% missile velocity =/= +15% Optimal and +30% falloff. Delayed dps means missile range depends on what the target is doing and isn't true unless the target is stationary. So the modules are not even the same as turret equivalents as it stands now.
Instead: -30% explosion radius would be better than splitting it between exp velocity and radius and a closer equivalent to +30% tracking.
+30% missile velocity would be a truer range bonus than split between flight time and velocity.
It looks tidier as well. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
705
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 17:44:39 -
[488] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:A Comprehensive Missile Balance Package (In addition to the proposed Aegis changes.)
GÇó Buzzard gets a +5% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles...
Shortend for reading and a +1 with a slight change, the Buzzard shouldn't decloak for any other reason than gates or dropping probes, so a bonus for probing or virus coherence along those lines (for all covert ops) would fit here better.
But Arthur, you nailed it.
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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Kasia en Tilavine
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 18:16:48 -
[489] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote: 7.5% ER and 7.5% EV
Scripted either 15% ER and 7.5% EV (100% increase to ER script) 7.5% ER and 15% EV (100% increase to EV script)
This allows a player to option between the 2 application variables depending on the nature of the engagement.
Is the target being measured in the Sig/ER calculation, use the ER script Is the target being measured in the Speed/EV calculation, use the EV script.
This is pointless. ER is a more powerful value to begin with. It applies to both parts of the missile equation and is also a reductive value. Reducing ER by 50% doubles application. Increasing EV by 50% only increases application by 50%. No one would ever script for EV for any reason. Ever.
ER = Sig of your turrets shot
EV = Tracking
Total range of your missile = Optimal (missiles have no falloff)
These modules should not be boosting ER, as there is no way to reduce the sig of a turrets shot. However, ships cannot sig tank turrets. This needs to be dealt with in a later expansion by adding true sig tanking of turret shots or removing true sig tanking of missile systems. Either way works fine for me.
What about:
+15% to Explosion Velocity +5% to missile Velocity +7.5% to missile flight time
The 2 scripts would function as the scripts for turrets do. either massively improving your application at close range for hitting AB small ships that are scam disrupted from mid to close kiting ranges. 10-20km...
+30% to Explosion velocity +0% to missile Velocity +0% to missile flight time
The second script would be the equivalent of the long range script. No application bonus, but a small buff to optimal with a larger buff to falloff. Flight time is more analogous to fallout because your tracking application might be perfect, but you still have a chance to "miss" be virtue of the missiles not reaching your target, with Velocity being optimal, because the missiles reach your target faster and hit.
+0% to Explosion velocity +10% to missile velocity +15% to missile flight time
This would need to be coupled with the addition of true sig tanking from the turret application equation and the conversion of all rigor rigs into flare rigs, with all missiles getting equal ER to SigOfShot value for equivalent Turret system.
But CCP does not have the balls to do this.
In the meantime +1 to the comprehensive change to missile ships listed earlier....
|
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4481
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 19:30:21 -
[490] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:=( Don't change my Naga! Haha!
Fourteen Maken wrote:Before anything is done mordu's legion ships should be nerfed... I stopped reading at about this point.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Legion40k
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
97
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 20:12:42 -
[491] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:A Comprehensive Missile Balance Package (In addition to the proposed Aegis changes.)
Remove Kinetic Pigeon Holes
Nerf Light Missiles; Buff Rockets; Buff Heavy Missiles; Buff Torpedoes; Buff Heavy Assault Missiles
Nerf Bomber Capacity
New Faction Missile Modules
Mordus Legion Ship Changes
Missile Naga
I'm cool with this being an /actual/ balance pass on missiles. They're versatile but not OP when done like that ^^^^
Though I will note that as much as people want a missile Naga, it aint gonna happen let's be honest..rather than try to make more ships fire ze missilez lets just fix what we've got |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract O X I D E
412
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 20:25:25 -
[492] - Quote
Legion40k wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:A Comprehensive Missile Balance Package (In addition to the proposed Aegis changes.)
Remove Kinetic Pigeon Holes
Nerf Light Missiles; Buff Rockets; Buff Heavy Missiles; Buff Torpedoes; Buff Heavy Assault Missiles
Nerf Bomber Capacity
New Faction Missile Modules
Mordus Legion Ship Changes
Missile Naga
I'm cool with this being an /actual/ balance pass on missiles. They're versatile but not OP when done like that ^^^^ Though I will note that as much as people want a missile Naga, it aint gonna happen let's be honest..rather than try to make more ships fire ze missilez lets just fix what we've got I agree about Arthur's post, looks much better than what CCP has come up with and then nerfed because.... something.
The reason people want a missile Naga isn't necessarily out of dislike for the hybrid Naga, but currently if you want to fire large missiles you have 2 choices: 1) Battleship, with everything else that goes with flying a battleship 2) Bomber, limited to torps
Large drones (Sentries, because Medium and Heavy drones are quasi-mid-sized) can be used effectively on multiple platforms. Large hybrids have 2 non-BS hulls, lazors get 1 of course, and lastly projectiles can be fired from a mid-sized hull. Compare that with large missiles where you either fly a battleship hull which has multiple downsides to flying a Tier 3 BC, there are upsides as well, to be fair, or you can put torps on a bomber. The hybrid Naga does not have to be taken away, what if the Tornado and Naga both got missile bonuses to compliment their current bonuses? The end result would be that hybrids and missiles would both have 2 platforms with 2 different uses. The Tornado could, for example, get cruise bonuses while the Naga would get torpedo oriented bonuses, thereby increasing the number of choices, options, and viability of large missiles without taking anything away from turrets. With missile mods and some tweaks to missile speed the Tornado could use cruise missiles to take advantage of their delayed, but strong, alpha. The uses for a Torpedo Naga are, I am sure, quite obvious.
Just a thought.
Have a nice day, |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4484
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 22:08:21 -
[493] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:The uses for a Torpedo Naga are, I am sure, quite obvious. Ganking Tornados comes to mind...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract O X I D E
413
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 22:27:31 -
[494] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:The uses for a Torpedo Naga are, I am sure, quite obvious. Ganking Tornados comes to mind... UArty would still probably prevail. Unless people wanted to do close range torp ganking. Hmmm.... Freighters suddenly get missile launcher slots for Defenders? |
Cecil B Heimerdinger
My very own little corporation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 22:58:24 -
[495] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:The uses for a Torpedo Naga are, I am sure, quite obvious. Ganking Tornados comes to mind...
Torpnados |
GreyGryphon
The Spartains
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 00:29:20 -
[496] - Quote
Zola Kado wrote:Please change Golem bonus from
10% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness
to
5 or 7,5% bonus to Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion radius
Like other marauder weapon bonuses. A Golem bonused Target Painter is better than 5%/level bonus to explosion radius and only 2.4% worse than 7.5%/level. Honestly, the bonus for the Caldri Navy ships is one of the weakest ship bonuses; it is only slightly better than a t2 Rigor.
Arthur Aihaken wrote:A Comprehensive Missile Balance Package (In addition to the proposed Aegis changes.)
Nerf Light Missiles; Buff Rockets; Buff Heavy Missiles; Buff Torpedoes; Buff Heavy Assault Missiles GÇó Swap the explosion velocity bonus between rockets (+20m/sec) and light missiles (-20m/sec) GÇó In addition to the 5% damage buff to heavy missiles, decrease the explosion radius on all heavy missiles by -5m and increase the explosion velocity on all heavy missiles by +10m/sec. GÇó All torpedoes receive a -33% reduction in explosion radius (which gives them slightly better damage application over cruise missiles) GÇó All heavy assault missiles receive a +20% increase to explosion velocity and -5m reduction in explosion radius
Missile Naga GÇó The Naga gets reverted back to a missile Battlecruiser (yes, it was a missile behemoth to begin with): 5% torpedo and cruise missile damage and 10% missile velocity per level. Do you mean +30/-30 m/s for rockets and light missiles? That torpedo buff would be reverted very quickly because it is too strong. I would honestly love to see a missile buff, but buffing medium and large missiles would cause more problems than they solve. When you buff missiles too much, they hit everything too well. The damage function needs to change.
I do not think a missile Naga is a good idea when the only way to effectively apply missile damage is with a web or two. Also, increasing explosion velocity does not help as much as you would think.
Mario Putzo wrote:7.5% ER and 7.5% EV
Scripted either 15% ER and 7.5% EV (100% increase to ER script) 7.5% ER and 15% EV (100% increase to EV script)
This allows a player to option between the 2 application variables depending on the nature of the engagement.
Is the target being measured in the Sig/ER calculation, use the ER script Is the target being measured in the Speed/EV calculation, use the EV script.
This functions much more closely to TCs and TEs. In the sense The missile damage equation does not work that way. Everyone would use the ER script because it would be better in every situation. People assume that rigor rigs are better than flare rigs only because of the increase in damage for small targets. This is not entirely true. T2 rigors give a 25% bonus while T2 flares give a 20% bonus when applied to the missile equation.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1199
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 02:23:28 -
[497] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:=( Don't change my Naga!
I support all Arthur's suggested changes, except for the Naga. I like it as a turret boat.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4488
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 05:37:10 -
[498] - Quote
GreyGryphon wrote:Do you mean +30/-30 m/s for rockets and light missiles? That torpedo buff would be reverted very quickly because it is too strong. I would honestly love to see a missile buff, but buffing medium and large missiles would cause more problems than they solve. When you buff missiles too much, they hit everything too well. The damage function needs to change.
I do not think a missile Naga is a good idea when the only way to effectively apply missile damage is with a web or two. Also, increasing explosion velocity does not help as much as you would think. No, I meant basically switch the explosion velocity bonus between rockets and light missiles (I believe the difference is -¦20m/s, but I could be mistaken). Rockets get slightly better damage application to encourage more use and it's a slight nerf to light missiles. The "buff" is actually just a slight rollback from the original heavy missile nerf and improved damage application for heavy assault missiles so that there's a reasonable short-range alternative to rapid light missile launchers. As for large missiles, torpedoes are already seeing a volume decrease - this is simply to address the poor damage application vs. cruise missiles. And yes, while this does benefit bombers - I did propose a capacity nerf to offset this somewhat.
An increase to explosion velocity is always beneficial, and adjusting it has less adverse effects than tweaking raw damage, rate of fire or explosion radius. I believe the bonus I indicated for the Naga was missile velocity, so basically it delivers raw damage over range. The Naga overshadows the Rokh, and I'd really rather see the bonuses from the Naga switched to the Rokh so it becomes a dedicated sniper and the Naga a support missile gunboat.
For the sake of discussion, let's assume we don't want the Naga to overshadow any of the other existing missile platforms. It would probably make more sense to give it some bonuses along these lines:
GÇó 10% bonus to torpedo and cruise missile velocity GÇó 10% bonus to torpedo and cruise missile flight time
This gives it the longest large missile base range which could lead to some interesting fleet/bombardment options.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4489
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 07:07:14 -
[499] - Quote
So CCP Rise, Aegis is out in just over a week. Any chance on joining the discussion or relenting on some of the stat nerfs?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Kasia en Tilavine
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 07:59:42 -
[500] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:So CCP Rise, Aegis is out in just over a week. Any chance on joining the discussion or relenting on some of the stat nerfs?
The best they would give us is "going live with these modules, we'll see how they do!". And given the next month of people using them to see if they are worth it, we will see them declare OP success. Meanwhile, in terms of total damage dealt increases with missiles, "the logs will show nothing".
These modules replace Ballistic Controls, Tanking modules, Tackle, E-war, or other midslot utility. Each of those things either make missiles do more damage, or give missile ships more staying power on grid through tank/enemy disruption/self support, or hold enemy ships in place (tackle) longer, allowing missiles to be fired for longer, thus doing more damage.
Considering that July will be the month of experimenting with these live on TQ... If AUGUST sees more total PVP missile damage done, then OP success. Because the decrease in Tank/E-war/Tackle/rawDPS is being successfully compensated for with more application, and there are use cases for these modules to be helpful to groups. Whether these relegate missile ships to tankless back line snipers to make your blaster tackle more potent on the enemy, or decloak wonder-death, then they have ultimately found use by the comunity. Which i guess works out to a net gain for missile ships.
I for one wouldn't mind flying no tank long range missile ships that hide behind the back line logi and hammer on larger targets or tackled targets to help break them. Their potential power in allowing Rapid fit Caracals to put dps pressure on "safe" logi or e-war ships just kiting the field might be something tremendously useful.
Eve is waiting. |
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1490
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 08:41:26 -
[501] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:So CCP Rise, Aegis is out in just over a week. Any chance on joining the discussion or relenting on some of the stat nerfs?
You must be new here. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1203
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 09:03:55 -
[502] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:So CCP Rise, Aegis is out in just over a week. Any chance on joining the discussion or relenting on some of the stat nerfs?
Thank you for the laugh, Arthur.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
708
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 09:55:45 -
[503] - Quote
Kasia en Tilavine wrote:...I for one wouldn't mind flying no tank long range missile ships that hide behind the back line logi and hammer on larger targets or tackled targets to help break them. Their potential power in allowing Rapid fit Caracals to put dps pressure on "safe" logi or e-war ships just kiting the field might be something tremendously useful...Eve is waiting.
Just shortened for reading purposes. I hate to take the wind out of your sails but I did try the mods and I wouldn't give my hopes up. SiSi pvp is very different from what is going on on TQ but you will see trends and new metas happening and developing quickly but I couldn't see much of an increase of missile activity.
I did try torpedos on a Navy Raven and you could see a small improvement but not that much that you will see torpedo-nano Ravens again (Band of goofswarm, you still hold a grudge for so many years??).
Simply put, the mods are not strong enough to ditch a ballistic control for an enhancer or a shield extender for a computer, so CCP Rise, did you talk to the fellas yesterday and give us some good news?
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1490
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Posted - 2015.06.30 10:01:10 -
[504] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Simply put, the mods are not strong enough to ditch a ballistic control for an enhancer or a shield extender for a computer, so CCP Rise, did you talk to the fellas yesterday and give us some good news?
Or to swap out a PWNAGE for, really. |
ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
899
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Posted - 2015.06.30 10:58:23 -
[505] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:=( Don't change my Naga! I support all Arthur's suggested changes, except for the Naga. I like it as a turret boat.
Why? just get a talos....
No Worries
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Kryzin
Crack Rock Inc. Serenitas Solutus
0
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Posted - 2015.06.30 11:20:36 -
[506] - Quote
missile boats are in a bad shape as it is, these enhancements dont seem to buff them at all, apart from the heavy missile increase which is needed, i dont even use them as they are a waste of time, pve only. torps having 24 half to what 12? yea thats a great idea. sure they got alot of alpha but they are terrible for dps compared with gunships, range? whats that.. u gotta get in close to trap anyhow and then ur gonna get melted.
in all seriousness, missile boats are CPU poor, no ones gonna give up their ballistic slots for example for increased velocity as fire rate stays the same and dps is considerably then nerfed. at present equal for equal pew pew ships pwn missile boats EOS.
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
304
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Posted - 2015.06.30 11:23:46 -
[507] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:So CCP Rise, Aegis is out in just over a week. Any chance on joining the discussion or relenting on some of the stat nerfs? Thank you for the laugh, Arthur. It was laugh, but his missiles changes proposal crush Rise "balance package". I just realized that by learning missiles skills I learn for kinetic damage mostly. Weapon skills and supporting skills for only one type of damage. Whole "missiles have selectable damage" is lie. Using EM missiles with tengu is like using lasers on Moa.
"-What are you doing?"
"-Docking."(...)
-"It's not possible"
-"No, it's necessary."
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Kryzin
Crack Rock Inc. Serenitas Solutus
0
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Posted - 2015.06.30 11:29:18 -
[508] - Quote
Matt Faithbringer wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:A Comprehensive Missile Balance Package (In addition to the proposed Aegis changes.)
Remove Kinetic Pigeon Holes GÇó Condor gets a +10% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Buzzard gets a +5% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Hookbill gets a +20% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Hawk gets a 10% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Corax gets a +5% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Flycatcher gets a +10% damage bonus to rockets and light missiles GÇó Cerberus gets a +5% damage bonus to light, heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Onyx gets a +5% damage bonus to light, heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Rook gets a +7.5% damage bonus to light, heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Navy Osprey gets a +10% damage bonus to light, heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Drake gets a +5% rate of fire bonus to heavy and heavy assault missiles (it's already benefiting from the 5% heavy missile buff); this makes it comparable to the Raven in terms of relationship between Battlecruisers and Battleships. GÇó Nighthawk gets a +7.5% damage bonus to heavy and heavy assault missiles GÇó Tengu Accelerated Ejection subsystem gets a +5% missile damage bonus
Nerf Light Missiles; Buff Rockets; Buff Heavy Missiles; Buff Torpedoes; Buff Heavy Assault Missiles GÇó Swap the explosion velocity bonus between rockets (+20m/sec) and light missiles (-20m/sec) GÇó In addition to the 5% damage buff to heavy missiles, decrease the explosion radius on all heavy missiles by -5m and increase the explosion radius on all heavy missiles by +10m/sec. GÇó All torpedoes receive a -33% reduction in explosion radius (which gives them slightly better damage application over cruise missiles) GÇó All heavy assault missiles receive a +20% increase to explosion velocity and -5m reduction in explosion radius
Nerf Bomber Capacity GÇó Reduce cargo capacity by 50-100m3 (torpedoes just received a huge volume reduction and their damage application is increasing quite significantly)
New Faction Missile Modules GÇó Mordu's Legion Ballistic Control System: 15% missile ROF, 7.5% missile damage GÇó Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System (updated): 12.5% missile ROF, 10% missile damage GÇó Mordu's Legion Missile Guidance Enhancer: 5% explosion velocity, 5% explosion radius, 15% missile velocity, -15% missile flight time GÇó Caldari Navy Missile Guidance Computer: 7.5% explosion radius, 7.5% explosion velocity, 7.5% missile velocity, 7.5% missile flight time GÇó Republic Fleet Missile Guidance Computer: 7.5% explosion radius, 7.5% explosion velocity, 7.5% missile velocity, 7.5% missile flight time (At least the addition of Faction modules will offset the recent MGC/MGE 'nerf'.)
Mordus Legion Ship Changes GÇó All missile damage bonuses for Mordu's Legion ships change to ROF bonuses. This results in a slight nerf to the Orthrus when utilizing RLMLs and a slight buff to the Barghest when utilizing torpedoes or cruise missiles.
Missile Naga GÇó The Naga gets reverted back to a missile Battlecruiser (yes, it was a missile behemoth to begin with): 5% torpedo and cruise missile damage and 10% missile velocity per level. man that would be nice..
i like alot of these suggestions but not really the mordus ones, as you forget how squishy those ships are so nerfing them would not go down very well.
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Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
896
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Posted - 2015.06.30 12:25:33 -
[509] - Quote
afkalt wrote:elitatwo wrote:Simply put, the mods are not strong enough to ditch a ballistic control for an enhancer or a shield extender for a computer, so CCP Rise, did you talk to the fellas yesterday and give us some good news? Or to swap out a PWNAGE for, really. They can improve your performance when you are in group and can benefit from mitigating stacking penalties. So it kind of makes sense if you consider that apparently gang/fleet work which is what most of these changes are aimed for - maybe.
Not really sure otherwise. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1492
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 12:43:54 -
[510] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:afkalt wrote:elitatwo wrote:Simply put, the mods are not strong enough to ditch a ballistic control for an enhancer or a shield extender for a computer, so CCP Rise, did you talk to the fellas yesterday and give us some good news? Or to swap out a PWNAGE for, really. They can improve your performance when you are in group and can benefit from mitigating stacking penalties. So it kind of makes sense if you consider that apparently gang/fleet work which is what most of these changes are aimed for - maybe. Not really sure otherwise.
Indeed, however imo, by the time stacking matters for the PWNAGE it's almost irrelevant. Plus they boost the whole gang, and spares are good, easier to fit compared to new mods AND the mods stack too.
Also trade tank or dps (unless you're a phoon).
So a huginn supported phoon fleet....maybe. Everyone else? Enjoy new stacking penalties on your rigs and use a TP like nothing has changed. |
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