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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
BustyBounty
Caldari
Vengeance of the Fallen
Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.25 04:43:00 -
[91]
Edited by: BustyBounty on 25/11/2006 04:44:11
i dont really see the reasoning behind stopping skills training on cancelled accounts.
people who were training alts just arent going to bother , its not like they were actually playing and using server resources anyway so it just means ccp make less money every 2months or however long people were leaving there accounts inactive.
or is this just to screw people out of more money hoping they will now pay for there alts accounts every month even if they arent going to actually play them.
btw i doubt its just skills people were using it for , it wouldnt suprise me if people were doing it for research jobs etc to.
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My opinions are my own and not that of the alliance I belong to. |
Kaell Meynn
Divergence
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Posted - 2006.11.25 04:47:00 -
[92]
 Quote:
The CPU on the Gila has been increased to 380tf, the HeliosÆ to 290tf, CheetahÆs to 275tf and AnathemaÆs to 280tf.
Was happy the buzzard was made so its not so much better cpu-wise than the others finally, but I now think by "Gila" you mean "Buzzard" so the change isn't so good anymore. If this is not the case, WTF is a "Gila" please?
Quote:
Advanced Large Ship Assembly Array volume has been increased 18,500,000 m3.
You mean CAPACITY, not VOLUME correct?
And lastly.... whats with this ECM for caldari only change? I don't fly Caldari ships, even though I started as one. I chose to train Gallente ships, but with heavy ECM skills (almost maxed) and now they're useless? Are you going to do this to all the other EW? So only gallente ships can use damps effectively? Or is Caldari the cool race so they can use all the other races EW and thier "own", but all the other races dont get to use ECM effectively? WTH?
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Pellaeon DuGalle
Caldari
Deep Black Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.25 04:54:00 -
[93]
I too am wondering as to the logic behind the no-skill-training-without-payment. As I see it, there can be 2 reasons why this was implemented, both of which I don't believe to hold water. Analysis is from a CCP-business point of view.
1) Gameplay reasons. If you're not activly playing, then you shouldn't skill up. Its unfair to those who are actually doing stuff.
This arguemnt doesn't work logically because of the inherent nature of EVE skill training. Being time based and click-and-forget means a person who has set a long skill training and not subscribed for a while and a person who has continuely subscribed have had the same opportunity cost as each other: the training time. At the end of the skill training they would be equal in ability. Hence this change can't have been for game balancing reasons. It should be noted that nobody is whining about the current system being unfair or what-not.
2) Financial. You don't pay, you don't play.
Fair enough. Except given CCP is trying to make a profit, its my belief that they can make *more* money by letting people train when they don't subscribe. Keep in mind it costs CCP *nothing* in terms of ongoing monetary costs to let charactors skill train; the servors just happily tick over by themselves.
There are two kinds of people who set long training times and un-subscribe: Those that come back and those that don't.
If the player does come back, then yes, there is a difference between skill-trained and not-skill trained. If the skill continued to be trained, the player would get a free month or two of skill training. This of course looks unfair for CCP. However, given that the time it takes to train *all* the skills in EVE is rapidly approaching 30 years, surely losing the subscription costs for a couple months is worth getting a player to come back and play for a couple extra years. Result is CCP is obtaining a large financial inflow in the future, while not having to pay anything now.
If the player does not come back, there is no difference between having the skill trained or not trained. CCP gains and loses nothing either way.
If the player doesn't intend to come back, but might consider doing so, then surely a completed Battleship V skill may help sway them back to EVE. It definatly can't decrease their chances of comming back. For this reason CCP could easily have a statistically significant rate of returning *paying* players as long as they can train skills while not subscribed (With the right data and enough time, I'm sure this is provable using econometrics). End result of this situation is CCP has a possible upside financially without any financial outlay.
Marketing
Before I signed up to EVE, I saw the whole skill training system as a huge brownie point in favor of CCP. Letting people train skills why not subscribed showed me CCP cared more about the community then squeezing the last penny from the game. This is a huge contrast to saw Blizzard or Sony, and gives me faith that CCP will take care of me in the long run, not just in terms of pricing. To change this is to lose this wonderful marketing tool, and us players will lose the ability to point to this feature and tell our friends how wonderfully generous CCP is.
So please Kieron, have a word with somebody. If CCP honestly benifit in the long run, then so be it (and please explain how). But as I see it now, the losses far outweight the gains, and CCP and the player community both suffer.
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"There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." |
Kesslan Osefice
Panther's Paw Industries Ltd
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Posted - 2006.11.25 05:19:00 -
[94]
For those claiming metalurgy and refining efficiency are now useless due to the fact their not needed for the ore related skills, look at it again.
Metalurgy still gives you a bonus to mining, refining effiency still boosts refinery efficency. Even with crappy standings, if you have refining efficency V you still get 100 percent on 50 percent refineries. And it STILL boosts those refineries that DONT have a base of 50. There are alot of them, especially in lowsec, but there are also some really crappy refineries to be found in Empire as well. Refining Efficency makes up for that.
Yay we finally have a forum:
http://pantherspaw.freehostia.com/ |
Shadow Lightbringer
Nightghosts Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.25 05:32:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Pellaeon DuGalle
There are two kinds of people who set long training times and un-subscribe: Those that come back and those that don't.
There are also those people who use this to train long skills on character that they are going to sell for ISK without having to pay the monthly fee for the whole training period.
I have always found that practice to be lame, I know a guy who does it, and for that reason I am happy to see this feature/bug go.
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Kathar Narka
Minmatar
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.25 05:40:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Pellaeon DuGalle
I too am wondering as to the logic behind the no-skill-training-without-payment. As I see it, there can be 2 reasons why this was implemented, both of which I don't believe to hold water. Analysis is from a CCP-business point of view.
1) Gameplay reasons. If you're not activly playing, then you shouldn't skill up. Its unfair to those who are actually doing stuff.
This arguemnt doesn't work logically because of the inherent nature of EVE skill training. Being time based and click-and-forget means a person who has set a long skill...
~~~
...2) Financial. You don't pay, you don't play.
Fair enough. Except given CCP is trying to make a profit, its my belief that they can make *more* money by letting people train when they don't subscribe. Keep in mind it costs CCP *nothing* in terms of ongoing monetary costs to let charactors skill train; the servors just happily tick over by themselves.
There are two kinds of people who set long training times and un-subscribe: Those that come back....
~~~
...Marketing
Before I signed up to EVE, I saw the whole skill training system as a huge brownie point in favor of CCP. Letting people train skills why not subscribed showed me CCP cared more about the community then squeezing the last penny from the game. This is a huge contrast to saw Blizzard or Sony, and gives me faith that CCP will take care of me in the long run, not just in terms of pricing. To change this is to lose this wonderful marketing tool, and us players will lose the ability to point to this feature and tell our friends how wonderfully generous CCP is.
So please Kieron, have a word with somebody. If CCP honestly benifit in the long run, then so be it (and please explain how). But as I see it now, the losses far outweight the gains, and CCP and the player community both suffer.
Though that was a long post...it says most everything I was thinking.
The idea that you are setting a long skill before exp is a sign that you intend to return & pay again when you can, and the new skill is an incentive to come back, b/c your character will remain useful thru time; rather than debating coming back knowing you are now even further from keeping up than before.
Having to leave for a month or more would force the character to begin falling too far behind with all the cool stuff coming in-game, all because a person had some RL responsibilities (overtime, university, family deaths), or temporary financial probs that we all deal with from time to time.
Please, reconsider this change. This game is too good & popular now to have to do something like this to bring that extra dollar, which leaves me wondering why this change is of any benefit at all right now.
On a lighter note, something like this would be more expected if CCP had just been bought out by Sony.  |
Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2006.11.25 05:40:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 25/11/2006 05:42:11
True but in practice you will find most refineries used (by those who make the most use out of refining) will be either 50% base refine stations or of the limited max refine POS variety.
I personally trained it for the purpose of Ice Processing, so I have little vested in this I am simply confused as to WHY it has been changed.
[Edit: Also metallurgy seems to have nothing to do with mining under this new system.... in fact any miners or refiners who trained the skill for either of those purpose are now lumbered with a research skill they may never use.]
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Pellaeon DuGalle
Caldari
Deep Black Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.25 06:08:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Shadow Lightbringer
Originally by: Pellaeon DuGalle
Stuff
There are also those people who use this to train long skills on character that they are going to sell for ISK without having to pay the monthly fee for the whole training period.
Yes, I agree that under the current system this could be an issue, but I believe the effect of such dodgyness is inherently minimised.
I'm going to make the assumption first that people are only going to pull the non-subscription trick on long skills, around a month long. I can't imagine anybody bothering for a week or two worth of training.
If this assumption is fairly true, then the only skills which would be abused would be the high ranking skills like battleship V or the various cap ships skills and what-not. I just think that the market price markup between a battleship 4 charactor and a battleship 5 charactor can't be huge enough that it warrents training up all the pre-req skills just to tap into this market and use this non-paying trick. Obviously you know a guy who does this, so yes, the market exists, but I'd hazard a guess that its not a huge one.
Also, I can't imagine there's that many people in EVE who can afford to or even desire to buy charactors with tens of millions of skillpoints. I certainly don't have several billion to spare, and if I did, buying a charactor wouldn't be high on the list. By the time I had the several billion is isk, my main should be able to do everything I want anyway.
The only "common" customers of this trick I'd guess would be the ebaying people (boo hiss), but they'd get run off fairly quickly anyway (killed in jita? but its saaafe...).
So the effect of charactor farming on CCP's bottom line, compared to significant numbers of returning long term players seems to be fairly small. A consideration yes, but it shouldn't be a large one.
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"There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." |
Cheese Burger
Fatalix Inc.
Schism.
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Posted - 2006.11.25 06:25:00 -
[99]
hmm I'm kind of surprised at the negativity towards skills not training on an inactive account, it seems like a no brainer to me... I mean if I don't "subscribe" to the gas company (i.e. pay my bill) my heater doesn't "train" (heat the house). Sure, thats not the best analogy seeing as how you could say that you're paying to fly around in space, not train your skills, but really, we're paying for both. There are some valid points, but I was under the impression (seems like I read it) that skills weren't really supposed to keep on training when the account was inactive, but they did and no one fixed it, thus it became a (temporary) "feature". I could be misinformed about that last sentance, that was just my understanding.
On a side note, "Note: Changes and additions may be added in the future during the ongoing Quality Assurance process. Such changes or additions will be highlighted with green text." warp to 0 is in green, does that mean it's a maybe?
Visit the Fatalix Inc. website today |
Pellaeon DuGalle
Caldari
Deep Black Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.25 06:46:00 -
[100]
Not sure what the various "feature" comments are about. But as I understand it, at one point in time the continued-skill training thing was actually advertised on this website as part of being EVE. So people thought this was a fundamental part of how EVE runs.
The green is simply to signify the sentence was added after the initial information release, so it'll be in the new patch. Its just green to keep a record of the order in which stuff happoned.
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"There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." |
Eveanne
Gallente
Sperm Trumpet Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.25 07:15:00 -
[101]
Warp-to-0 = IN
WCS Nerf = OUT
/me listens to the sound of snapping tendons as jaws drop
lol
x
E
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Cheese Burger
Fatalix Inc.
Schism.
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Posted - 2006.11.25 07:29:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Pellaeon DuGalle
Not sure what the various "feature" comments are about. But as I understand it, at one point in time the continued-skill training thing was actually advertised on this website as part of being EVE. So people thought this was a fundamental part of how EVE runs.
The green is simply to signify the sentence was added after the initial information release, so it'll be in the new patch. Its just green to keep a record of the order in which stuff happoned.
thanks for the clarification on the warp to 0, made more sense when I reread it, I was afraid they were going to add it at a later date, as for the training thing at the top of your post, it very well could have been like that and I could have been mistaken, but I still find it humorous that people are burning down the forums about inactive accounts getting nerfed.
Visit the Fatalix Inc. website today |
Larz63
Caldari
Penumbra Squadron
Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.11.25 07:32:00 -
[103]
Wow, the storyline for the new missions is great. I can't wait for the release. Even though I know the release is going to be a real PITA and will cause a crapload of problems for a little while, it will be well worth it in the end. Out of all the MMORPGS or whatever they are called, I still think this is the best out there as of now.
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Kaladr
Amarr
No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.11.25 07:42:00 -
[104]
Please please make sure WCS changes go in!   
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EVE-Central.com - Cross-region market view and trade finder |
Extreme
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.25 07:43:00 -
[105]
"optimizations
We never stop optimizing and improving our architecture"
Has the Eve mail system been fixed/improved finally?
All leaders mailsystems are broken, ineffective, needs an 'archive' function, NPC mail section, personnel section.
At the Eve gathering Las Vegas this year i had let my member from Costa Rica ask about this to the big boss CCP dude.
Opening eve mail and have to wait 1 minute before the mail appears still aint funny.
.
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Pellaeon DuGalle
Caldari
Deep Black Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.25 07:49:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Cheese Burger
I still find it humorous that people are burning down the forums about inactive accounts getting nerfed.
Heh, well when you put it that way it does seem kinda silly doesn't it? 
But I think what most people are concerned with is the inactive accounts concerned aren't going to be permanently inactive. A lot of us get bored on EVE once in a (long long) while, but everytime we leave we know when we come back we'll have a little something extra to welcome us back. But after this patch the welcome wagon will no longer be there, and as a result the urge to come back may not be as strong (heaven forbid).
And thats not to even mention the unfairness if the act of un-subscribing is not the person's fault (lost income, some sort of major accident, natural disaster, alien invasion etc).
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"There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." |
Vladimir Ramanov
Amarr
Low Grade Ore
The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2006.11.25 08:42:00 -
[107]
No fix to the cyno docking bug, i'm sick of seeing 15 cyno's outside of stations.
And whilst on the subject of Cyno's, any chance of fixing Recon's, it's only been a year now.
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Dark Stryker
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Posted - 2006.11.25 09:05:00 -
[108]
I think not allowing skills to train when your account is closed is pretty bad idea, especially to change it after this time, i for one cant play all the time and incentive to come back is the fact that im not completely fallen out of the loop because i can atleast train some skills while not being able to play. |
Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2006.11.25 09:35:00 -
[109]
ôNamed versions of capacitor power relays, capacitor flux coils and power diagnostic systems now give better bonuses than their standard tech 1 counterparts.ö
What about shield relays & shield flux? Shield tanker are still stuck with named modules being the same as T1.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Shadow Lightbringer
Nightghosts Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.25 09:44:00 -
[110]
Regardless of the reason for having to cancel the subscription, to expect that CCP must allow you to advance your skill training when you are not paying for service to the game is rather unfair. Just because you are having problems paying doesn't mean that CCP needs to be a charity
I understand that up to now they have looked the other way and allowed it to happen. But, going by another post by Kieron, the practice has reached a point on TQ and Serenity that they consider it abusive, and have such decided the time has come to stop it.
I doubt there will be much fallout from this decision. People will adjust to the change like they always have in the past. 
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Vladimir Ramanov
Amarr
Low Grade Ore
The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2006.11.25 09:52:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Shadow Lightbringer
I understand that up to now they have looked the other way and allowed it to happen. But, going by another post by Kieron, the practice has reached a point on TQ and Serenity that they consider it abusive, and have such decided the time has come to stop it.
Quite true, I'v know of several people who have canceled their account for a month whilst BS 5 trains, pretty much an exploit in my books.
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Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.25 09:59:00 -
[112]
CCP in "players have to pay a subscription to improve their characters shocker" (more news at 11.) 
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.11.25 10:03:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/11/2006 10:07:55
Well, about the WCS changes, I can tell you that they have the penalties on SiSi, and its running the same version as the patch notes are talking about. Not sure if that means it will make it into Tranquility or not, but it seems very likely to me.
And as Blindman says... command ships having less hp than battlecruisers feels a bit sad tbh. I know ccp dont want to make the difference between t2 and t1 ships a major factor, but do you really want t2 battlecruisers to have LESS hp than t1?
Right now on SiSi though, the Cyclone and the Sleipnir have the same amount of hp, with Sleipnir only having better resists.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Ather Ialeas
Amarr
Karjala Inc.
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.25 10:11:00 -
[114]
I need a confirmation on this one:
Items are no longer lost when direct trading between players.
What does this actually mean? This alerted me because I recently made a direct trade with my alt moving a certain precious implant and it disappeared. I forgot it and because of my hazy memories I've thought that I actually refined it by accident...but could this be some sort of petitionable bug since I'm not 100% sure that I did refine that particular item.
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HypnotiX
Underground Revolution
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Posted - 2006.11.25 10:46:00 -
[115]
OMG if you guys dont change the stabs anymore i swear i will quit!
and no you cant have my stuff leeches
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Jennifer Payne
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Posted - 2006.11.25 11:19:00 -
[116]
What exactly are you trying to accomplish with the removal of the option to save passwords?
Are you trying to prevent other people than the account owner from logging in, when they somehow get access to the account owner's computer? I fail to understand the reasoning behind this move. To me it looks like it's about protecting people from their own stupidity, which is something I can do fine without.
As it stands, people have an option(!) to save their passwords and are not forced to. So it's up to every individual to chose this added "security" (whatever that may be) by not ticking that option. Why remove this choice?
I think it will be a major annoyance not having the option to save my passwords anymore! Please rethink that idea!
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D'Jannek
Amarr
StateCorp
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Posted - 2006.11.25 11:30:00 -
[117]
Question: Are standings in local likely to make it in? I can't see any reference to them in the patch notes.
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AV3NG3R
Caldari
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2006.11.25 11:35:00 -
[118]
Hmm - no mention of changes to local...
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Moadyb
The Raven Warriors
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Posted - 2006.11.25 11:41:00 -
[119]
There is actually alot of stuff on Sisi NOW that are not in the patch notes; HAC changes (Deimos, Munin), skill requirement changes for Command ships, changes in some modules (like interia stabilizers), boosts to plates and hp extenders, etc, etc.
There is a bunch of other stuff, but I rather keep my mouth shut 
We have to leave some room to hot fixes later on, don't we? 
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.11.25 11:48:00 -
[120]
Im going to post this again to make sure it doesnt go unnoticed:
What about the 100 km range of Heavy Assault Javelin missiles? Its STILL that way on SiSi.
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