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So, T2 lottery reseeded?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Martinez Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.12.01 15:05:00 - [121] last time i checked crusier construction 5 wasnt needed to get a agent that would give you a command ship bpo.
Akui Loa	Posted - 2006.12.01 15:22:00 - [122] You're right, because the way the Lotto currently works if you win a BPO you automatically are blessed with all the necessary skills to produce it effectively. Oh, wait... The point that some people seem to be missing is that a game mechanic that completely shuts out the vast majority of interested players is a lousy mechanic, no matter who wins. That is the point. Reseeding only perpetuates a horrible mechanic and makes an actual fix down the road that much more difficult to implement. Invention is a step in the right direction. Reseeding is not.
Silvero Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.01 15:39:00 - [123] As i have said before, Lotto is a bad show. What we should have is a auction, prior to this auction we get a list of the bpo's that's are going to get released and the resarchers can then choose which bpo's they are gonna bid on. And since this is a multiplayer game, groups of ppl should be able to team up in research team's where they can stack thier RP. like in corp's/alliances or even just a bunch of ppl. Bring the pvp to the labs aswell
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.01 15:56:00 - [124] Originally by: Silvero As i have said before, Lotto is a bad show. What we should have is a auction, prior to this auction we get a list of the bpo's that's are going to get released and the resarchers can then choose which bpo's they are gonna bid on. And since this is a multiplayer game, groups of ppl should be able to team up in research team's where they can stack thier RP. like in corp's/alliances or even just a bunch of ppl. Bring the pvp to the labs aswell Ummm I hope they reseed lost and destroyed tech II bpo. I hope those that dont like the tech II which works and now invention just keep on buying! Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead . Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:02:00 - [125] Originally by: Martinez Reading this thread has made me realize how dumb some of you people really are. 1. Getting rid of the lotto is dumb because there isnt a fair way to give out t2 bpos by any other way than by chance. hence LOTTO! 2. If you made it mission based, the people who play eve all day will win over people in school and work. 3. If you get rid of t2 bpos and make only copies, for the people who say that have no idea what it takes to produce t2 items. they are very skill intensive, take large amounts of time organizing components, ships, mins etc. so when Person A gets his 5 run bpc he doesnt have the skills or the know how to build the ** things. this will create even more of a shortage. 4. There are some ships and mods that have been lost or are not used. yes they should be reseeded. also the older bpos that got released and had much fewer released could use some reseeding, example hacs, interceptors, and a few mods. But the more recent t2 bpos released where released with much greater numbers, so they dont need to be reseeded. 5. FOR THE PEOPLE THAT SAY T2 MAKERS GET FREE MONEY, YOU ARE IDIOTS IF YOU THINK THAT. i would say 75% of t2 bpos make little to no profit. yes there are some bpos out there that make huge profit, a few hacs and a few mods. i know that the **ation, Propator, and Purifier make NO money. the time and effort it takes to make them just makes them not worth producing. So to wrap this up, t2 stuff is going to be continue to be seeded in the lotto. take the month or two in training get some agents and get in there and do it yourself. quit complaining! t3 will be done differently i am sure. You are an odd combination of intelligence and stupidity. I say that some some who likes the lotto concept. Wherever you went - here you are.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:28:00 - [126] This thread is just one more example that ignorance != bliss.
Sarf	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:37:00 - [127] If the T2 lotto was changed to a auction then only the very rich would get any T2 bpo. I know characters that are willing to drop 40bn on a T2 ship BPO. I have been playing since Beta, never gotten a T2 BPO in that entire time (running all 5 agents) and have no where near 40bn to buy a bpo. so in short a loto is the only fair way. I have no problem with doing both, but leave the guy that can't pay the HUGE prices a chance. Say 10% released by Auction and 90% by lotto. Basically have everyone bid for 1 month. and at the end of that month the top X bids get BPOs. mean while 90% of the PO are going out to the loto for anyone with RP to get.
Hajyt	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:54:00 - [128] Anybody have any stats on how many t2 bpo's are actually out there? vs The actual number of active accounts? The t2 market should be rarer than t1 definatly, but have to keep people from price gouging. If you hurt 100 people to make a game of 50k-75k more balanced...its a good tradeoff.
Zan Tu	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:55:00 - [129] See sig... "R&D Lottery: A Tax on people with poor math skills..."
Silvero Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.01 18:19:00 - [130] Originally by: Sarf If the T2 lotto was changed to a auction then only the very rich would get any T2 bpo. I know characters that are willing to drop 40bn on a T2 ship BPO. I have been playing since Beta, never gotten a T2 BPO in that entire time (running all 5 agents) and have no where near 40bn to buy a bpo. so in short a loto is the only fair way. I have no problem with doing both, but leave the guy that can't pay the HUGE prices a chance. Say 10% released by Auction and 90% by lotto. Basically have everyone bid for 1 month. and at the end of that month the top X bids get BPOs. mean while 90% of the PO are going out to the loto for anyone with RP to get. Previous post "And since this is a multiplayer game, groups of ppl should be able to team up in research team's where they can stack thier RP." RP != isk An auction using RP instead of isk ofc.
Martinez Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:04:00 - [131] For those complaining about the t2 lotto system, how would you do it? i have not seen one post on a better way yet. Only complaints on hows it not fair and WHAA!!! I also didnt know guns had been held to some players heads by i am guessing ccp, making it where they could not get to use the lotto system.
Malena Panic Gallente Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:24:00 - [132] Originally by: Martinez For those complaining about the t2 lotto system, how would you do it? i have not seen one post on a better way yet. Only complaints on hows it not fair and WHAA!!! You could read the thread and attempt to rebut the suggestions contained therein.
Martinez Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:29:00 - [133] you also could read the thread and see i did at the top of page 5.
Malena Panic Gallente Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:47:00 - [134] Originally by: Martinez you also could read the thread and see i did at the top of page 5. Calling a suggestion 'dumb' is not a rebuttal, dummy.
Martinez Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:57:00 - [135] I am starting to think you dont read well. ok let me break this down for you like i would a small child. the points i made after the " dumb " comment where in response to why getting rid of the lotto at this time wont work. so i will try again. 1. lotto system is in place and for t2 stuff its not going away. 2. no one has come up with a completely fair way to do the bpo give aways. 3. t2 bpo owners do have to work hard to keep their bpos producing. 4. most t2 bpos dont make unreal profit, like i said earlier alot of them make 0 money. 5. I didnt call peoples suggestions "dumb", i called the people themselves "dumb"
Malena Panic Gallente Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.12.01 21:22:00 - [136] Originally by: Martinez I am starting to think you dont read well. ok let me break this down for you like i would a small child. Again, not very constructive. Also not useful if you want people to read your arguments.
Popsikle Caffeine Commodities Company Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.01 21:27:00 - [137] Originally by: Martinez I am starting to think you dont read well. ok let me break this down for you like i would a small child. the points i made after the " dumb " comment where in response to why getting rid of the lotto at this time wont work. so i will try again. 1. lotto system is in place and for t2 stuff its not going away. 2. no one has come up with a completely fair way to do the bpo give aways. 3. t2 bpo owners do have to work hard to keep their bpos producing. 4. most t2 bpos dont make unreal profit, like i said earlier alot of them make 0 money. 5. I didnt call peoples suggestions "dumb", i called the people themselves "dumb" Ive been around for all of tech2, and with almost 1 million RP on my toons Ive yet to get an offer.... I dont see why now that the new contract system is in place the t2's cant be auctioned off for RP. It gives those of us who got ****** a higher chance of getting a bpo then those that already have them (assuming the same realitive RP/day) but those that actually worked for thier agents an even better chance. Whats the downside to that? __________________________________________ -= We Fly for our people =- -= I fly for Blood =-
Father Weebles Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2006.12.01 21:40:00 - [138] Originally by: Martinez 4. most t2 bpos dont make unreal profit, like i said earlier alot of them make 0 money. most of the tech2 stuff that everybody uses DO make ****loads of isk. Nobody uses cap batteries or shield transporters so theyre worth 0 but that isnt relevant since the stuff that ise used often (large armor reps II, energized adaptive nano II, invul field II, tech2 large guns etc etc) is incredibly profitable. "Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control."
Martinez Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.12.01 21:45:00 - [139] well i am guess the people complaining about not getting to do the lotto system are saying they dont have enough rp to get a t2 bpo. so there being a auction would only allow the people who have been playing along time and gotten alot of rp to get the bpos. that would make it even more unfair. at least if you start reseach you have a chance. that is where i dont understand why people are complaining really. everyone in eve is allowed to do those agents. the people who put the time in to train, run the research missions, and did the other missions to get a high enough standing are the ones that get the bpos. I myself have 5 agents, have gotten one bpo, the assualt launcher 2. I traded the assualt launcher bpo, for the purifier bpo. which i traded with the damnation and propator bpos for the sleipnir. the damnation and the propator i got because myself and a corpmate of mine worked our asses off to get them. so all of you crying about not getting stuff, STFU and go work for it. this whole thread is about people wanting free stuff, well like the real world, you have to work for 95% of what you get.
Martinez Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.12.01 21:56:00 - [140] i am going to point to the top of page five, as i said yes some bpos make really good money. some make huge money. but over all about 75% of the t2 bpos dont make money. so pointing out hacs, cap rechargers, and guns really doesnt help your point. its the fleet command ships other than the eos, the blockaid runners, the stealth bombers(which might be better after patch), logistics ships, and the mods that are worthless. hell until the lately after the changes made to them the sacrilidge sold for crap, same goes for the eagle and munin. all i am saying is dont base the whole t2 market on a small % of the bpos.
Za Po Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:09:00 - [141] Originally by: Silvero An auction using RP instead of isk ofc. Uhm... why do you want to give all new BPOs to the big alliances, giving no chance to small corps and independant researchers? Because this is the obvious consequence of an auction system, whether in RP or isk or whatever.
incist	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:11:00 - [142] Quote: Ive been around for all of tech2, and with almost 1 million RP on my toons Ive yet to get an offer.... I dont see why now that the new contract system is in place the t2's cant be auctioned off for RP. It gives those of us who got ****** a higher chance of getting a bpo then those that already have them (assuming the same realitive RP/day) but those that actually worked for thier agents an even better chance. Whats the downside to that? =) qft
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2006.12.01 23:01:00 - [143] So inane discussion on changing the lottery aside when is the blog due out?
Fren Mallow Gallente Bluestar Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.01 23:04:00 - [144] Edited by: Fren Mallow on 01/12/2006 23:25:57 Edited by: Fren Mallow on 01/12/2006 23:24:10 edited typos and word orders for (hopefully) better understanding For a game where you get told at every damn edge it's about PVP and PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT, those T2 Lotto is the biggest crap i've ever seen!! What should be the point of T2-Items!? They should be RARE, hard to get, uncommon, elite... (for who must be a question here also - the lucky ones? the 23/7er ones? the smartest ones? the griefiest ones?) Fine, nothing against that. But then CCP, tell us, which kind of player you prefer above the others! But why does CCP then put PLAYERS in charge for SUPPLEMENT of those rare items? I mean.. if it's all about the rareness of the items, why don't you give out the items instead of infinite-running-item-craft-mechanisms? What does RARE mean, anyways? I would say, a restricted number of created/supplied items per year or month or day.. (naturally in opposition to that, are unrare, common items aviable in infinite amounts ..maybe oly restricted by respawn rates of ore) However.. uncommon, RARE things DO HAVE A VALUE, ALLWAYS (you'll never get around this, never!) And in most (if not all) economies this planet has seen, TIME is the key to this. Either it's the time, which was needed to get the item crafted or it was the time needed to wait for it to fell from heaven or just materialize in your hangar. One unit Tritanium got it's value from the time, you need to obtain it from the roids (with the average aviable most advanced technic.. f.i.: covetor, strips aso.) and this time is then compared to every other crafting process and the items, which where created in those fields (running missions, complexes, mine moons .. aso) We have a market.. it's an unfree market with borders and restrictions.. so everything has a value to the people ON this market. Rareness of items DEMANDED translates into high prices, ALLWAYS! So why do you give the Supplement into the hands of a few, instead of the items to a broader mass, if it's for rareness only?! It's all about the rare ITEMS!!! Comming to the point for all of this... The PLAYERS want a "fair" system, where EVERYBODY gets the same chance for such a ITEM, not for the BP! The PLAYERS don't want to upset the people with only 2-4h playing time per week! The PLAYERS don't want to upset the people who are here 23/7! The PLAYERS don't want isk-printing machines for an elite of players! We ARE THE PLAYERS! I'm a player, and I DON'T WANT TO BE UPSET! Solution might be... Give out restricted BP's ONLY from now on.. AND keep the lottery going on FOREVER. What would you loose by this, CCP?! No Dev has given an answer to this 100x brought up suggestion by now!!! Or srew with it and let invention happen to the system NOW and let the market deal with it. Make it hard for those T2 stuff (at the moment it already looks like), make it fu*** damn hard, make it so sty damn hard as you can, but don't upset ME, cause I'M A PLAYER! I really can't see the point in making an elite of players.. I really can't see the point in upset >95% of your customers, CCP! I really can't understand how you on one side, propagate a PLAYER DRIVEN COMMUNITY and CONTENT and MARKET* and all that stuff with REAL competition and at the other side implement such an UNFAIR system, in the eyes of so many of your customers... I really don't get the point behind this. T2 LOTTO with infinite running BP comming OUT of the process is UNFAIR CCP and UPSETS ME!
BlueIceQueen	Posted - 2006.12.02 02:13:00 - [145] Originally by: Fren Mallow I really can't see the point in upset >95% of your customers, CCP! customers are usually those who pay, NOT those who use their isk to buy gtc's which probably 30% if not more of the eve community does. Originally by: Fren Mallow I really can't understand how you on one side, propagate a PLAYER DRIVEN COMMUNITY and CONTENT and MARKET and all that stuff with REAL competition and at the other side implement such an UNFAIR system, in the eyes of so many of your customers... I really don't get the point behind this. i think your views on the market need to be broaderned if you think of the market as one whole. there are several markets in game ranging from faction, T2 and T1 with several sub divisions ships / mods / trade goods and so on. Originally by: Fren Mallow T2 LOTTO with infinite running BP comming OUT of the process is UNFAIR CCP and UPSETS ME! blueicequeen* passes Fern Mallow a box of tissues
Fren Mallow Gallente Bluestar Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.02 02:42:00 - [146] Originally by: BlueIceQueen Originally by: Fren Mallow I really can't see the point in upset >95% of your customers, CCP! customers are usually those who pay, NOT those who use their isk to buy gtc's which probably 30% if not more of the eve community does. Any numbers ready to back this up, or is this just a "wise" imagination from you? And even if only 70% of the players where game time payers by their own hand.. what does this change on the statement I made? Aren't 70% percent of PLAYERS worth to be heard over? Are you allready that high above those 70%, that you don't have to care about their thoughts?! Makes me think, your're one of the more luky T2 bpo holder.. Originally by:* BlueIceQueen Originally by: Fren Mallow I really can't understand how you on one side, propagate a PLAYER DRIVEN COMMUNITY and CONTENT and MARKET and all that stuff with REAL competition and at the other side implement such an UNFAIR system, in the eyes of so many of your customers... I really don't get the point behind this. i think your views on the market need to be broaderned if you think of the market as one whole. there are several markets in game ranging from faction, T2 and T1 with several sub divisions ships / mods / trade goods and so on. Nice try, mate. All those markets relate to each other OVER an universe-wide-currency, called ISK. Every damn item in Eve on the market gets compared by this little feature to all other items. News for ya? And btw. what do several submarkets have to do with the problem, that some "by whatever method" selected players BECOME forever suppliers of items (and by that a wealthy Elite), which should be RARE by definition (from CCP)? - Where EVERYBODY on this planet knows, that RARE items are high priced? What would be the problem for EVE, when the next lottery only puts out run restricted BPs? Wouldn't that be even better, than what we have now? Every know and then one can get lucky, instead of alltime-luckie's.. Come on.. give me an answer on this, which took you longer than 5sec to think about. Originally by: BlueIceQueen Originally by: Fren Mallow T2 LOTTO with infinite running BP comming OUT of the process is UNFAIR CCP and UPSETS ME! blueicequeen* passes Fern Mallow a box of tissues Anybody else with a 1min no-brain-reply?!
Matrix Aran Legio Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.02 06:19:00 - [147] You could just hold onto your RP's and farm the exploration sites for datacores :) ---- Originally by: Wrangler It's a neuralizer.
CelticWarrior Lords Of Guile Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.12.02 09:31:00 - [148] I believe a large release of T2 BPO's in some fields is called for. With the Hyperion, Rokh and Megathron now all fielding Large Hybrid Turrets the demand for these weapons sees the Caldari's Rokh joining the Gallente Race ships for the same weapons which are shall we say already "fully priced" on the market. The Minmatar's new Maelstrom has 8 Turret points compared to the Tempest's 6 and so it could be argued with 1400mm T2 selling for 15 mill a bit of new Bpo love here as well is in order, plus some autocannons.We probably also need to factor in the Amarr, some of who are unhappy with the cap on there new ship and are busily training up for minmatar weapons (by adding the new 5% damage to projectiles and not to the minmatar battleships the amarr crossdressing decision was predictable). Also with the bonuses on these new ships like the Maelstrom coming with its shield bonus we could use some new Armor/Shield Rep and Hardners, Invuln etc Bpo's of the large variety and medium for the Battlecruisers. Thats just a quick list, i'm sure the same can be argued for the Battlecruisers as more Turret/Launcher Hardpoints = more demand on the market which usually leads to rampant inflation in Eve. With the price of weapons and tanking equipment already unbearable to a large group of the playerbase who only have a couple of hours to play at a time its time for CCP to put the brakes on this runaway train of a market. At the end of the day its the casual player subscripions where a game like Eve makes its profit from.
Swedde Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.02 09:57:00 - [149] Edited by: Swedde on 02/12/2006 09:59:21 What about this.. 3 ideas 1. Keep all current BPOs, don't seed any more. Have agents seed new shinny BPCs in 5, 10 or 20 runs. Have a stable amount of BPCs. 2. Turn all current BPOs into BPCs with a year and halfs supply of runs, ie if you can produce 1 item per day make it in to a 500 run BPC. Most T2 producers look at 1 years return or so. Again seed a fair and stable amount of BPCs (5-20 runs) through R&D agents. 3. The problem with the current system is that people have paid a lot if isks for their BPOs so, have a system where CCP EVE international buys all current issued BPOs for a fair and good isk price. Set a time limit as to when trades have to be made and then take all T2 BPOs out of circulation. Implement BPCs system as above. Pros: This would make people work for the copies (with agents) and everybody would have a much better chance of making a good amount of isk (not obsene). BPCs trading and R&D agents+research gets new needed life. CCP would be able to control the market slightly with the amount of seeding of BPCs, at the end of the day a high price on T2 items will eventually turn people away from playing this game. If you are serious about EVE (and you want to win your fights) you need to use T2 stuff. Cons Probably missed something obvious EDIT: Spelling DomDiDiDomDom...
Hertford Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.02 10:27:00 - [150] T2 Production should be limited by the supply of available materials and components, not by the number of BPO's/BPC's.

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