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So, T2 lottery reseeded?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.11.29 11:17:00 - [1] Edited by: Splagada on 29/11/2006 11:17:05 they told us so no? the "Doyenne has no cerberus BPO" bug wasnt fixed yet =( ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.29 11:18:00 - [2] I don't believe they ever promised it to be the instant Revelations was released. But yes, this "Dark Shikari has no Cerberus BPO" problem also needs to be fixed. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.11.29 11:19:00 - [3] hey get in queue lol :p ------ relaxed corp looking for members
maarud Einherjar Incorporated Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.29 11:26:00 - [4] Do any of the agents have new BPO's seeded or not? Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
solidshot Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.29 11:30:00 - [5] havnt seen any of the new t2 missiles showing yet
Lily Savage CryoTech	Posted - 2006.11.29 11:30:00 - [6] Originally by: maarud Do any of the agents have new BPO's seeded or not? None of my research agents have anything easily predictable.
Sovereign533 Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.11.29 11:31:00 - [7] Originally by: maarud Do any of the agents have new BPO's seeded or not? it all comes down to 1 word : nope we get invention instead... =( i only wish i could invent t2 bpo's... Originally by: Sovereign533 Time will tell, sooner or later, time will tell... Second sig removed, only 1 signature graphic please - Xorus ^_^WOOHOO!!! my Sig finally got nerfed... And now its been sigjacked, yarrrr!!! - Petwraith
Tachy	Posted - 2006.11.29 12:05:00 - [8] The 'Tachy got no Vagabond BPO' issue is still unfixed and all my agents don't know nothing of any coming patents neither. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Hohenheim OfLight Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.11.29 12:08:00 - [9] yes "The hoh does not have hel bpo problem" needs fixing to ---------------------------------------------- Gone but not forgotten
Thuul'Khalat Gallente Phoenix Wing	Posted - 2006.11.29 12:15:00 - [10] Originally by: Tachy The 'Tachy got no Vagabond BPO' issue is still unfixed and all my agents don't know nothing of any coming patents neither. With the wcs-nerf Vagabond prices will crash anyways --- We are Recruiting!
Lord WarATron Amarr Vanguard Frontiers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.29 12:18:00 - [11] I guess people could invent a Heavy Assault launcher II by invention. Not that anyone can use it or even t2 HAM ammo just now (Since the skill only came out today) --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
solidshot Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.29 12:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Lord WarATron I guess people could invent a Heavy Assault launcher II by invention. Not that anyone can use it or even t2 HAM ammo just now (Since the skill only came out today) didnt they say that you cant invent drones and ammo anyway?

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2006.11.29 12:27:00 - [13] There is a few other issues needed to be fixed to and that's the 'Chribba got no Veldspar BPO'-problem, and 'There is no Moon-sized Veldspar roid in Amarr for my Veldnought'-problem. ETA on fix? EVE-Files \| EVE-Search \| Monitor this Thread

Beastor	Posted - 2006.11.29 12:30:00 - [14] the lottery was complete and utter crap. I for one have had a r&d agent since the day they came out ... and still nothing ... I just hope they will never make the same mistake as with the original t2 bpo seeding ... it was crap from the beginning till the end.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2006.11.29 12:32:00 - [15] As long as anyone who is remotely connected to our has a tech II BPO is automaticly excluded from the lottery, it should work. Otherwise...the forum mods will have a hard time locking threads..... Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.11.29 14:47:00 - [16] was months ago, but would you believe a former corpmate of mine had a heat diss 2 bpo, omg, when i asked her how in the freaking hell she said it was because she smartly said NO to the TWO first offers of bpos she had from her agent. ****it!! THIRD offer lol i think i then lied in foetal position and cried for the rest of the day ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Lunadi Minmatar Solar Trade	Posted - 2006.11.29 14:52:00 - [17] Edited by: Lunadi on 29/11/2006 14:53:31 It would be greate to get a dev answer on this topic. I would like to know if: - the PBO lottery is going to be continued? - how often new BP & how many BP are going to be put on lottery? - what kind of BP is going to be put on lottery (or at least in what fields)? If too specific info is not possible due to some 'game design' issues, then maybe some more general information could be supllied, as long as it allows the players to make choices regarding reasearch & agent types. -------- hate my spelling? go play SCRABBLE!

Oveur	Posted - 2006.11.29 14:55:00 - [18] Hammer was on the night shift with me and isn't back in yet. He's been analyzing all this in all the changes required to the science & industry infrastructure in Revelations. He will be seeding quite a lot of Tech 2 BPOs to compensate for destroyed, deleted, banned, cooked, broiled, frozen or gone-medieval-on BPOs which have exited the economy. We want to keep a certain set of Tech 2 BPOs in usage on TQ. I believe he has a blog coming up about that. I'd expect to see the seeds come in Tuesday at least, perhaps earlier. Senior Producer EVE Online

Pepperami Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.29 14:56:00 - [19] Originally by: Oveur Hammer was on the night shift with me and isn't back in yet. He's been analyzing all this in all the changes required to the science & industry infrastructure in Revelations. He will be seeding quite a lot of Tech 2 BPOs to compensate for destroyed, deleted, banned, cooked, broiled, frozen or gone-medieval-on BPOs which have exited the economy. We want to keep a certain set of Tech 2 BPOs in usage on TQ. I believe he has a blog coming up about that. I'd expect to see the seeds come in Tuesday at least, perhaps earlier. Will the r&d seeded proto prints be upgraded now you can buy them off the market (like the ech1 and sba1?) [EVE TASK BAR?]
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.11.29 15:03:00 - [20] Originally by: Oveur Hammer was on the night shift with me and isn't back in yet. He's been analyzing all this in all the changes required to the science & industry infrastructure in Revelations. He will be seeding quite a lot of Tech 2 BPOs to compensate for destroyed, deleted, banned, cooked, broiled, frozen or gone-medieval-on BPOs which have exited the economy. We want to keep a certain set of Tech 2 BPOs in usage on TQ. I believe he has a blog coming up about that. I'd expect to see the seeds come in Tuesday at least, perhaps earlier. omg omg lights candles SEED ME DADDY!!! ------ relaxed corp looking for members

CCP Hammer	Posted - 2006.11.29 15:10:00 - [21] I've been meaning to write a big blog about all of this stuff but with the patch coming out everything has been so hectic I haven't made the time. We are going to seed more tech 2 stuff to the lottery, heck maybe more of EVERYTHING that's been will be in there. Seeing as how the number of pilots researching and using that stuff has tripled since the lottery started it seems like we could use some more blueprint originals out there. Anyway, looks for a big blog from me Soon TM.

Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.29 15:12:00 - [22] Originally by: CCP Hammer I've been meaning to write a big blog about all of this stuff but with the patch coming out everything has been so hectic I haven't made the time. We are going to seed more tech 2 stuff to the lottery, heck maybe more of EVERYTHING that's been will be in there. Seeing as how the number of pilots researching and using that stuff has tripled since the lottery started it seems like we could use some more blueprint originals out there. Anyway, looks for a big blog from me Soon TM. Interesting... Remember that I still need an Absolution BPO... Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2006.11.29 15:16:00 - [23] Edited by: MOOstradamus on 29/11/2006 15:16:32 Santa Hammerhead MOOCIFER Emerald/Alpha Oldtimer
Kalil d'Maelstromo The Establishment	Posted - 2006.11.29 15:17:00 - [24] Originally by: Thuul'Khalat Originally by: Tachy The 'Tachy got no Vagabond BPO' issue is still unfixed and all my agents don't know nothing of any coming patents neither. With the wcs-nerf Vagabond prices will crash anyways Prays this is true
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.29 15:25:00 - [25] I am a little concerned that if there's a 'release' in the traditional fashion, those that are actually 'doing' inventing are going to be the ones who miss out on the possible I-WIN-EVE buttons, where those that just sit and hoard RPs are the ones who actually have a chance to net a BPO. Not that I have any RPs either way, but the choice whether to actually be a 'researcher' and work for BPCs, vs. stilling still, doing nothing and hoping for a T2 BPO isn't all that appealing.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.29 15:27:00 - [26] I don't like the lottery. Not because its unfair (i mean it is, but thats beside the point) but because its dull and chance based. Would love to see mini-events or tasks or similar related to getting hte BPOs, tied to the RP agents. That'd be much better. -----------------------------------------------
Rusom Rokath Amarr Black Thorne Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.29 15:29:00 - [27] Edited by: Rusom Rokath on 29/11/2006 15:30:20 Originally by: CCP Hammer I've been meaning to write a big blog about all of this stuff but with the patch coming out everything has been so hectic I haven't made the time. We are going to seed more tech 2 stuff to the lottery, heck maybe more of EVERYTHING that's been will be in there. Seeing as how the number of pilots researching and using that stuff has tripled since the lottery started it seems like we could use some more blueprint originals out there. Anyway, looks for a big blog from me Soon TM. I hope you'll also take into account the profit margin of the bpo's, and demand/supply of the product. I'm sure you're aware that not all tech 2 stuff sells equally well, and that some prints are nice to have, but by no means something that makes you instantly rich. Don't let that part of the t2 market become as 'interesting' as the t1 market please.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.29 15:30:00 - [28] Originally by: Patch86 I don't like the lottery. Not because its unfair (i mean it is, but thats beside the point) but because its dull and chance based. Would love to see mini-events or tasks or similar related to getting hte BPOs, tied to the RP agents. That'd be much better. I'd settle for each 'invention' job having a small percentage chance of scoring the BPO if there's one available. (Chance increased by a 'good' invent job, but still not very high).
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.29 15:35:00 - [29] More tech II bpos PLEASE. I love you. Its Hammer time. Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead . Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
Smagd Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.29 15:49:00 - [30] Originally by: Chribba There is a few other issues needed to be fixed to and that's the 'Chribba got no Veldspar BPO'-problem, and 'There is no Moon-sized Veldspar roid in Amarr for my Veldnought'-problem. ETA on fix? So you can buy Tritanium and build Veldspar from it? Dude, you've got the game all backwards. Well, huh, I guess the next logical step would be an Asteroid Construction laser: Load your cargo with Ore, target a rock, shoot Veldspar from your cargo into the roid... That way you'd get your moon, too. -- Thukkers do
Gunstar Zero Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.29 16:46:00 - [31] I've got the same bug as others - I dont seem have a Crow BPO yet :-)
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.11.29 16:59:00 - [32] Originally by: Gunstar Zero I've got the same bug as others - I dont seem have a Crow BPO yet :-) i thought you guys had one on corp app??? ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Dr Brains	Posted - 2006.11.29 17:05:00 - [33] Edited by: Dr Brains on 29/11/2006 17:06:59 Originally by: Oveur Hammer was on the night shift with me and isn't back in yet. He's been analyzing all this in all the changes required to the science & industry infrastructure in Revelations. He will be seeding quite a lot of Tech 2 BPOs to compensate for destroyed, deleted, banned, cooked, broiled, frozen or gone-medieval-on BPOs which have exited the economy. We want to keep a certain set of Tech 2 BPOs in usage on TQ. I believe he has a blog coming up about that. I'd expect to see the seeds come in Tuesday at least, perhaps earlier. Originally by: CCP Hammer I've been meaning to write a big blog about all of this stuff but with the patch coming out everything has been so hectic I haven't made the time. We are going to seed more tech 2 stuff to the lottery, heck maybe more of EVERYTHING that's been will be in there. Seeing as how the number of pilots researching and using that stuff has tripled since the lottery started it seems like we could use some more blueprint originals out there. Anyway, looks for a big blog from me Soon TM. \o/ Just one thought. Theres already to much T2 ammo BPOs out there. Some ammo doesn't sell even at production price (for example Null L, Void L). The high sellers (tremor, aurora, spike) are making minimal profits, if you seed more, these will also go down to zero... And there should be some difference between T1 and T2.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.11.29 17:11:00 - [34] Edited by: Splagada on 29/11/2006 17:21:42 Originally by: Dr Brains \o/ Just one thought. Theres already to much T2 ammo BPOs out there. Some ammo doesn't sell even at production price (for example Null L, Void L). The high sellers (tremor, aurora, spike) are making minimal profits, if you seed more, these will also go down to zero... And there should be some difference between T1 and T2. Your and my post here should be in the features discussion tho :p but I agree!!! T2 ammo is awesome but clearly the downsides can be REALLY mean. cap recharge penalty on missiles (mostly caldari/active tanks), speed penalty on projective, etc etc the REAL problem is that usually you have 6 of them fitted, so it makes a big OUCH to hit an exponential penalty since we still dont have "unload all" option, we adapt, but i agree it's the main problem seriously 10%+ penalties on ammo make it really tough.... realize we usually have many launchers/guns :p ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Mack Dorgeans Camelot Innovations	Posted - 2006.11.29 17:23:00 - [35] Well, nice! I hope we see more prints soon. For heaven's sake, though, SEED THEM IN STAGES. The market doesn't need a sudden huge influx of new T2 production. It would probably be fairest to the current T2 BPO holders (myself included) to seed in additional existing BPOs in the order they were first released and staggered somewhat.
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.29 17:29:00 - [36] Ak and here I was thinking CCP had a nice well thought out solution to advancing tech. Randomly introducing more bpos seems a stupid idea. Of course those that have been destroyed/gone missing should be reseeded. But extras destroys the stability of the game.
Eamon Develara	Posted - 2006.11.29 17:30:00 - [37] I have a noobish question. How does the T2 loto work? Do you have to sign up for it or do you wake up one day with a T2 BPO in your hanger.
violator2k5 Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.29 17:31:00 - [38] imo u guys worry to much. you should know by now they would not abandon the lottery system so fast and that invention is by no means a replacement. 1 thing i feel should be pointed out is the number of bpos that are not even in production and have been for some time, due to players not being in game / around to produce from said bpo. would it be possible for ccp to factor this in too when deciding how many of which t2 bpos will be seeded. on another note there was mention of someone getting 3 offers before and turning down 2 of them for the 3rd. adding something to deal with this would be nice, people who deny a offer in a certain field does not get no more offers in that field until the next lottery. i would go into more detail about how i'd like to see the t2 lottery run but its probably all been said before and im sure ccp have in something in mind.
Evil Thug Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.11.29 17:32:00 - [39] Originally by: Aralis Ak and here I was thinking CCP had a nice well thought out solution to advancing tech. Randomly introducing more bpos seems a stupid idea. Of course those that have been destroyed/gone missing should be reseeded. But extras destroys the stability of the game. Read : I want to continue to print isk without making effort.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.11.29 18:17:00 - [40] Originally by: Mack Dorgeans Well, nice! I hope we see more prints soon. For heaven's sake, though, SEED THEM IN STAGES. The market doesn't need a sudden huge influx of new T2 production. It would probably be fairest to the current T2 BPO holders (myself included) to seed in additional existing BPOs in the order they were first released and staggered somewhat. The situation so far has been grossly unfair in favour of current T2 BPO holders, so whatever can be done to alleviate this, should be done.
Dr Sublime	Posted - 2006.11.29 19:29:00 - [41] Great, wish I had seen this before my main cashed in over 24k rp's thru various agents to try the new, highly promoted invention thingie ;(
Cheunger Perkone	Posted - 2006.11.29 20:01:00 - [42] What does it mean to be "seeded"? I've been wondering for awhile now.
Still Hart Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels	Posted - 2006.11.29 20:19:00 - [43] Well this ******* bites. I skipped training for R+D agent skills because there were no more seeded BPOs and then invention was going to replace it. Now I lost MONTHS of potential RP. Even if I do somehow manage to get my skills up before all the BPOs are gone again, I'll be so far behind other people that my chances to get one will be negligible. I'd love to see a RP cap but I know that's not gonna happen. I'll just have to be content with getting screwed on the stupid T2 BPO lottery yet again. Maybe I can get some RP before T3 comes out... _____________________
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2006.11.29 20:29:00 - [44] Edited by: Ramblin Man on 29/11/2006 20:35:02 Originally by: Cheunger What does it mean to be "seeded"? I've been wondering for awhile now. When a print is "seeded", it goes into the pool of "available" prints. These prints then trickle out over time (as opposed to all at once) through offers from randomly selected research agents (actually randomly selected points they've accumulated). Seeded prints are visible in the "predicted" fields of agents. So basically... it's the point where CCP starts up the lottery. That's afaik though, so anyone feel free to correct me if I've got something wrong. Originally by: Still Hart [...] I skipped training for R+D agent skills because there were no more seeded BPOs and then invention was going to replace it. Now I lost MONTHS of potential RP. Even if I do somehow manage to get my skills up before all the BPOs are gone again, I'll be so far behind other people that my chances to get one will be negligible. I'd love to see a RP cap but I know that's not gonna happen. I'll just have to be content with getting screwed on the stupid T2 BPO lottery yet again. Maybe I can get some RP before T3 comes out... CCP never said invention was going to replace the lottery system. Things they've said, off the top of my head, - T2 BPOs will remain the most efficient way to produce current T2 goods. - Invention is a correction-to rather than a replacement-for the T2 system. - T2 Rigs will have to be invented. (? Bit fuzzy on this one) - The path to T3 lies through invention. Don't blame them if you don't study the portends closely enough.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.29 20:32:00 - [45] Seeded can mean any way of things becoming available. You call it "seeding the market" whn things are made available on the market, for example. And its called "seeding" when you do something like put celestial objects in game. -----------------------------------------------
Alekseyev Karrde The Royal Guard Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2006.11.29 20:34:00 - [46] I am encouraged by this. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xendie Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.29 20:44:00 - [47] Originally by: Gunstar Zero I've got the same bug as others - I dont seem have a Crow BPO yet :-) are you still a crow addict? i dont think ive ever seen you fly anything else :) Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.29 20:44:00 - [48] Originally by: Still Hart Well this ******* bites. I skipped training for R+D agent skills because there were no more seeded BPOs and then invention was going to replace it. Now I lost MONTHS of potential RP. Even if I do somehow manage to get my skills up before all the BPOs are gone again, I'll be so far behind other people that my chances to get one will be negligible. I'd love to see a RP cap but I know that's not gonna happen. I'll just have to be content with getting screwed on the stupid T2 BPO lottery yet again. Maybe I can get some RP before T3 comes out... Uhm, you do realize that you need RPs to invent stuff, right? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Verus Potestas Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.11.29 20:45:00 - [49] /me sexors the thread. Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.11.29 20:51:00 - [50] YES! It's HAMMER TIME! I think there's spot for nice little "Cap Recharger II BPO" in my hangar We all know that Cap II > Every other BPO because with Cap II you can buy any other BPO out there! "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö" "A world without pain"
Lunadi Minmatar Solar Trade	Posted - 2006.11.29 21:38:00 - [51] Take into consideration that the new invention system may be badly balanced... ending up in crappy demand for most of datacores. I'm currently investing time into research, but I'm very worried if this 'experiment' will end up well. Datacore sellers (scientists) are actually on the worst position - they screwed if there is too much supply (too low price for datacores) or if the invention procedure is not profitable (resulting in low demand). The latter (invention profitability) can be the result of several factors - crappy invention effect (low run, ineficient, etc..), too high cost of other components, low chance of success. If the invention profitability fails, there will be no market for datacores. So there is not much alternative for a reasearcher - this is why I'm concerned with the lottery. But I think the main problem is - scientists don't have much use in eve atm (very few possibilities, with many fields easily replaceable by an alt char). -------- hate my spelling? go play SCRABBLE!
Silverbullet Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.29 21:42:00 - [52] Originally by: CCP Hammer I've been meaning to write a big blog about all of this stuff but with the patch coming out everything has been so hectic I haven't made the time. We are going to seed more tech 2 stuff to the lottery, heck maybe more of EVERYTHING that's been will be in there. Seeing as how the number of pilots researching and using that stuff has tripled since the lottery started it seems like we could use some more blueprint originals out there. Anyway, looks for a big blog from me Soon TM. Didnt you guys mess it up too much with the whole CE II BPO bizz already? There¦s really no need to do it again, so please only reseed lost T2 bpo¦s. That alone will do alot.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.11.29 21:48:00 - [53] Originally by: Silverbullet Didnt you guys mess it up too much with the whole CE II BPO bizz already? It is still messed up and this is their chance to finally fix it. But I understand that the T2 BPO owners will whine quite a bit.
Saladin Minmatar V I R I I Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.11.29 21:52:00 - [54] Anyone know if agents have handed out the t2 HAMs or t2 HAM ammo bpo's? Also, which agents will drop the t2 rig bpo's? I could see starship engineering being the logical choice, but you never know. ----
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.29 21:56:00 - [55] Originally by: Mack Dorgeans Well, nice! I hope we see more prints soon. For heaven's sake, though, SEED THEM IN STAGES. The market doesn't need a sudden huge influx of new T2 production. It would probably be fairest to the current T2 BPO holders (myself included) to seed in additional existing BPOs in the order they were first released and staggered somewhat. No offense, but you guys who own T2 BPOs have had ample time to do your thing and make more money than you can possibly ever spend. You don't need any compensation in the interest of "fairness" now.
Silas Vita	Posted - 2006.11.29 21:57:00 - [56] Originally by: Thuul'Khalat Originally by: Tachy The 'Tachy got no Vagabond BPO' issue is still unfixed and all my agents don't know nothing of any coming patents neither. With the wcs-nerf Vagabond prices will crash anyways You're forgetting that this ship will actually be better with this patch, cause vagabond pilots are forced not to use wcs. Not having wcs also means more Vagabonds blown up so there's a greater need for production. However the changes also mean that less ppl dare to fly the ship. Summed up i believe the demand on Vagabonds will be just the same now as pre-revelations. Question I'd like answered is how invention will affect the prices of the Vagabond and how much will an invented Vagabond cost altogether (including the matter of chance)?
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.29 21:58:00 - [57] Originally by: Evil Thug Originally by: Aralis Ak and here I was thinking CCP had a nice well thought out solution to advancing tech. Randomly introducing more bpos seems a stupid idea. Of course those that have been destroyed/gone missing should be reseeded. But extras destroys the stability of the game. Read : I want to continue to print isk without making effort. QFT. Seeding more tech 2 BPOs will increase the stability of the game, not destroy it.
Lord Artemis Filthy Wyrm	Posted - 2006.11.29 22:30:00 - [58] Originally by: CCP Hammer I've been meaning to write a big blog about all of this stuff but with the patch coming out everything has been so hectic I haven't made the time. We are going to seed more tech 2 stuff to the lottery, heck maybe more of EVERYTHING that's been will be in there. Seeing as how the number of pilots researching and using that stuff has tripled since the lottery started it seems like we could use some more blueprint originals out there. Anyway, looks for a big blog from me Soon TM. \O/ doin' the happy dance of hope. _____________________________ ... this space for rent ...
SSandra	Posted - 2006.11.29 23:36:00 - [59] Edited by: SSandra on 29/11/2006 23:49:24 I was hoping for this kind of announcement. Was gonna wait for it then decide which agents to cash out...very nice.
Ravelin Eb Minmatar Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.11.30 01:59:00 - [60] Amazing, now my 300k starship rp's might have some use. didnt get nothing first time around. maybe i strike lucky this time :(
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2006.11.30 04:21:00 - [61] Our prayers have been anwsered!
Mack Dorgeans Camelot Innovations	Posted - 2006.11.30 04:34:00 - [62] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Mack Dorgeans Well, nice! I hope we see more prints soon. For heaven's sake, though, SEED THEM IN STAGES. The market doesn't need a sudden huge influx of new T2 production. It would probably be fairest to the current T2 BPO holders (myself included) to seed in additional existing BPOs in the order they were first released and staggered somewhat. No offense, but you guys who own T2 BPOs have had ample time to do your thing and make more money than you can possibly ever spend. You don't need any compensation in the interest of "fairness" now. My point is that someone who won a T2 BPO within the past year gets a lot less out of it than someone who won a HAC BPO or such that was seeded much earlier and also makes the best profit margins. I won't even get into the cap recharger II BPO situation. As for me personally, I've been luckier than most, but I'm still a bit player in the T2 market. I have less than 10 billion isk in my wallet at the moment. That's not exactly tycoon status in EVE compared to some of the amounts I see getting thrown around on auctions. Releasing more of every past T2 BPO in the same round of the lottery would not only have a huge unknown impact on the economy, it would also limit the chances for people with very few points to ever win anything, because by the time they've built up a decent amount, everything will be gone again. A staggered release in the order of initial seeding would be better all around. They wouldn't need to be spaced as far apart as originally, but a massive T2 seeding over the course of just a couple of months would be worse for more than just the current BPO holders.
Father Weebles Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2006.11.30 07:01:00 - [63] Originally by: Mack Dorgeans Well, nice! I hope we see more prints soon. For heaven's sake, though, SEED THEM IN STAGES. The market doesn't need a sudden huge influx of new T2 production. It would probably be fairest to the current T2 BPO holders (myself included) to seed in additional existing BPOs in the order they were first released and staggered somewhat. like somebody said earlier.... you had your cake "Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control."
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2006.11.30 07:33:00 - [64] Edited by: Ramblin Man on 30/11/2006 07:34:42 Originally by: Cheunger Originally by: Ramblin Man Edited by: Ramblin Man on 29/11/2006 20:35:02 Originally by: Cheunger What does it mean to be "seeded"? I've been wondering for awhile now. When a print is "seeded", it goes into the pool of "available" prints. These prints then trickle out over time (as opposed to all at once) through offers from randomly selected research agents (actually randomly selected points they've accumulated). Seeded prints are visible in the "predicted" fields of agents. So basically... it's the point where CCP starts up the lottery. That's afaik though, so anyone feel free to correct me if I've got something wrong. So uhh, the T2 BPOs people own now are going to go back into the lottery? Yes and no. Originally by: Oveur [Hammer] will be seeding quite a lot of Tech 2 BPOs to compensate for destroyed, deleted, banned, cooked, broiled, frozen or gone-medieval-on BPOs which have exited the economy. We want to keep a certain set of Tech 2 BPOs in usage on TQ. Yes, it sounds like more of the "original T2" item BPOs are going to be seeded (to correct for ones not in use anymore [and probably account for increased server population]). No, the BPOs people own now are not going to go back on the lottery. (Wasn't quite sure what you were asking)
Jonask'ri Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.30 07:53:00 - [65] People who think this will lower price of T2, please think about the following argument :- If EXTRA T2 BPO's are reseeded through lottery, a fair number or most will fall into the hands of :- a)Those who already own T2 BPOs b)Those who want to make a quick ISK fortune by selling/auctioning said won BPO. If BPO falls to (a), monopoly is upkept. If BPO falls to (b), auction winner will most likely be those with a great amount of ISK - typically those with existing BPOs, monopoly is upkept. What has changed? Nothing. Some ****ed off players who now worry about CCP changing the rules on them... Best if you don't seed additional BPOs, and even if you do CCP, please don't do it through lottery. (I have almost 1mil RP i think too) ----- Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes Redwolf > No Solar System can be found with 'c_ck' in the beginning its name. Jonask'ri
Ultimate Poison	Posted - 2006.11.30 08:32:00 - [66] Originally by: Jonask'ri If EXTRA T2 BPO's are reseeded through lottery, a fair number or most will fall into the hands of :- a)Those who already own T2 BPOs b)Those who want to make a quick ISK fortune by selling/auctioning said won BPO. If BPO falls to (a), monopoly is upkept. If BPO falls to (b), auction winner will most likely be those with a great amount of ISK - typically those with existing BPOs, monopoly is upkept. Like all things in life, nothing is certain. There is only a chance that the above happens, there might be a few people that actuall enjoy producing and selling T2 stuff, like me for example. So to increase the chance of people like me having a bpo, ensure that a large amount of bpo's are seeded into the market. And I'm not talking 20, but more than a 100 should be sufficient to break any monopoly, kartel or ogolopoly.
Gunstar Zero Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.30 08:40:00 - [67] Originally by: Xendie Originally by: Gunstar Zero I've got the same bug as others - I dont seem have a Crow BPO yet :-) are you still a crow addict? i dont think ive ever seen you fly anything else :) I'm a creature of habit
Za Po Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.30 09:14:00 - [68] I've been wondering what happens to T2 BPOs belonging to characters that get banned, deleted, no-longer-used, or blown up with the BPO in their cargo. I don't expect a large number of these, but then again, BPOs aren't many to begin with. I'm looking forward to this blog.
Busenlilly	Posted - 2006.11.30 09:54:00 - [69] Edited by: Busenlilly on 30/11/2006 09:54:36 Didnt they actually say somewhere that they are going to remove all already owned RPs and start over with Revelations? So newer players do have a chance to win a BPO? I heard about serveral people that were kinda upset because of that.
Shadowsword Gallente COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.11.30 10:02:00 - [70] Originally by: Jonask'ri People who think this will lower price of T2, please think about the following argument :- If EXTRA T2 BPO's are reseeded through lottery, a fair number or most will fall into the hands of :- a)Those who already own T2 BPOs b)Those who want to make a quick ISK fortune by selling/auctioning said won BPO. If BPO falls to (a), monopoly is upkept. If BPO falls to (b), auction winner will most likely be those with a great amount of ISK - typically those with existing BPOs, monopoly is upkept. What has changed? Nothing. Some ***ed off players who now worry about CCP changing the rules on them... That will be the case for most* BPOs, yes, but there will be some that will keep their bpos and start making money with it, too. Besides, that means: - Hundreds of billions, maybe trillions, will go into the hands of those who get lucky and auction their BPOs. - More supply = prices going down a fair bit, espescially for high-value items/ships. - More demand for those avanced materials components used for T2 -> the whole POS industry will benefit from it -> Big T2 producers will have to pay more to build T2 stuff. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.11.30 10:07:00 - [71] Originally by: Busenlilly Edited by: Busenlilly on 30/11/2006 09:54:36 Didnt they actually say somewhere that they are going to remove all already owned RPs and start over with Revelations? So newer players do have a chance to win a BPO? I heard about serveral people that were kinda upset because of that. it's random. some people got Cerb bpos with 800 RP ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Xaildaine	Posted - 2006.11.30 10:09:00 - [72] Giving out T2 bpos in a lotto is a bad idea mmmk Hell ... T2 bpos themselves are a bad idea Why not a constant stream of Bpcs seeded through the lotto system weekly or monthly ... it would keep the market honest
Le Pecarosh	Posted - 2006.11.30 10:15:00 - [73] Seeding more T2 BPOs is not a solution to the problem. Problem being that many many many people are just tired of having to rat/mine/run missions for days, just to be able to buy 1 ship, or full rack of T2 launchers/guns. So, you'll seed more BPOs, and those BPOs will eventually end up with those who already have those T2 BPOs. Does CCP realize that many T2 BPO holders 'farm' (with their prices) so that they can get more ISK and get more T2 BPOs of same kind, so that they can keep on getting more and more ISK, so that they can get more monopoly on T2 production? The invention model was promising when it was announced, but implementation is... rather sad. If I invent something, I should have it forever. Not a **** 5-run BPC. If I invest time and ISK to train/get skills and datacores and whatever else - well, reward me with a chance to hold to my invention, not something temporary. For all I care, give me (as "invention") a T2 heavy missile launcher BPO, with extreme build times, so that I can produce 1-2 per day. I'd be happy, since I would be able to be self-sufficient (at least w/ T2 heavy missile launchers), and wouldn't need to rat/mine for days just to afford a rack of them. Invention involves LOTS more work than was needed to get T2 BPOs. What is the reasoning? And I am seriously tired of T2 BPO holders talking about "hard work they've put with research agents". I've managed to get R&D LVL4 agents in few days of CASUAL (few missions per day) LVL1/LVL2 mission running for agents from that corp. It took me more effort to get skills up to be able to effectively fit a Hawk w/ T2 standard launchers, then to start getting 70RP/day in High Physics Engineering (or something like that - not logged in now, can't check). Will be able to use 3 more agents in 4 days. Oh, it was REALLY lots of work...
Fubear Vogon Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.30 10:48:00 - [74] The lottery is the WORST idea in the game. You have twenty people who put equal amounts of effort into obtaining research agents, and only one person gets a T2 BPO which will pay out billions of ISK a month for the rest of their EVE career. I am sure if CCP ran the actual numbers, <PeopleRunningL4Agents>/<T2BPOsSeeded> is a hell of a lot less than 20/1. We now have the ability to purchase items with RP, so the T2 BPO's should be able to be purchased with RP. Example pricing could be: - T2 Ammo BPO - 3 months Research with an Agent - T2 Frigate Modules - 6 months Research with an Agent - T2 Cruiser Modules/Frigate Hulls - 9 Months Reseach - T2 BS Modules/Cruiser Hulls - 12 Months Research The times could obviously be reduced by Skills and running research missions. There are enough T2 BPO's that the market would not be flooded, and the average research character would get 5-10 BPO's a year, which seems to be a reasonable amount to me.
Lord WarATron Amarr Vanguard Frontiers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:01:00 - [75] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 30/11/2006 11:02:52 Is there any truth to the rumour that if you have, say, a million rp and CCP seed multiple bpos in your field, then you can claim em all. I.e You have a million RP 1. You get 5 Different Starship BPO offers. You have a week to claim 2. You claim the first. RP total is now 0 3. Wait a day for 100 RP Claim the second 4. RP is now 0. Repeat In other words - Tactical claiming of BPO's so you get more than 1 offer. I.E holding off claiming that t2 BPO for a few days to see if you get another offer :) --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:11:00 - [76] it's downtime !! my Doyenne is all warm and ready for you lovely bpos!! seriously got about 300k RP scattered on 2 chars =( ------ relaxed corp looking for members
VeNT Minmatar Freelancer Union Unaffiliated	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:31:00 - [77] Originally by: Splagada it's downtime !! my Doyenne is all warm and ready for you lovely bpos!! seriously got about 300k RP scattered on 2 chars =( only 300k? -------------------- Selena 001 > has VeNT left system? its gone really quiet!
Riggwelter Caldari Drinkers Appreciation Soiciety	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:32:00 - [78] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 30/11/2006 11:02:52 Is there any truth to the rumour that if you have, say, a million rp and CCP seed multiple bpos in your field, then you can claim em all. I.e You have a million RP 1. You get 5 Different Starship BPO offers. You have a week to claim 2. You claim the first. RP total is now 0 3. Wait a day for 100 RP Claim the second 4. RP is now 0. Repeat In other words - Tactical claiming of BPO's so you get more than 1 offer. I.E holding off claiming that t2 BPO for a few days to see if you get another offer :) When you accept the 1st offer all of your RP's with that agent are consumed and you start again with zero. You might be extradoanly lucky and get another BPO offer with a small no of RP but these days with the vast no's of RP out there it is very very unlikly.
Lord WarATron Amarr Vanguard Frontiers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:41:00 - [79] Originally by: Riggwelter Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 30/11/2006 11:02:52 Is there any truth to the rumour that if you have, say, a million rp and CCP seed multiple bpos in your field, then you can claim em all. I.e You have a million RP 1. You get 5 Different Starship BPO offers. You have a week to claim 2. You claim the first. RP total is now 0 3. Wait a day for 100 RP Claim the second 4. RP is now 0. Repeat In other words - Tactical claiming of BPO's so you get more than 1 offer. I.E holding off claiming that t2 BPO for a few days to see if you get another offer :) When you accept the 1st offer all of your RP's with that agent are consumed and you start again with zero. You might be extradoanly lucky and get another BPO offer with a small no of RP but these days with the vast no's of RP out there it is very very unlikly. Example - CCP run the formula and his number comes up on 1 of the Blueprints. Insted of claiming and loosing his RP, he waits 6 days so his RP can count Twice towards the next draw in that field. So lets say he got 3 offers then. He claims the first. Ok RP is now zero yeah? But those other 2 offers are still there...... so he waits however long it takes to get 1 rp and claims the second.... and so on. That is different from what you are saying. What I am saying is that this guy can tactically abuse the lottery to increase his chances of claiming BPO's for 1rp each --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
JerryB	Posted - 2006.11.30 14:56:00 - [80] Why continue with this lottery? Is there nothing more active to imagine for research activities? That's really boring to wait since 1 year 1/2 for nothing with nothing to do for my researcher job
Mamulos	Posted - 2006.11.30 16:02:00 - [81] I have in total 6 acccounts, with 66 R & D agents with all field, and guess what my agents didnt give me anything in the past patch ;-) i hope ill get some on this patch
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.30 16:16:00 - [82] Originally by: Lord WarATron Example - CCP run the formula and his number comes up on 1 of the Blueprints. Insted of claiming and loosing his RP, he waits 6 days so his RP can count Twice towards the next draw in that field. So lets say he got 3 offers then. He claims the first. Ok RP is now zero yeah? But those other 2 offers are still there...... so he waits however long it takes to get 1 rp and claims the second.... and so on. That is different from what you are saying. What I am saying is that this guy can tactically abuse the lottery to increase his chances of claiming BPO's for 1rp each Nope. When you get one offer it takes you out of the pool for more offers untill you accept or decline. If you accept, you get your BPO and then go back into the pool with whatever RP you gain daily. If you decline your block of RP is put back into the pool for future seeding.
JeanPierre	Posted - 2006.11.30 16:30:00 - [83] Originally by: Mack Dorgeans Well, nice! I hope we see more prints soon. For heaven's sake, though, SEED THEM IN STAGES. The market doesn't need a sudden huge influx of new T2 production. It would probably be fairest to the current T2 BPO holders (myself included) to seed in additional existing BPOs in the order they were first released and staggered somewhat. Fairest? Oh come on. I've never begrudged you Insta-Money guys your BPO's, never complained about the lottery to my knowledge, but don't start whining about "fair" after you've had such a long time to milk the market as you have, based on little more than having the luck to get a T2 BPO. It's fine you've had this time and such, good on you, but "fair"? Lordy be. As you guys are so often fond of reminding others when they complain that you have T2 BPO's and they don't, life ain't fair. Geesh. Now I've heard it all.
Mr Vrix Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.11.30 16:40:00 - [84] Its actually a catch 22 situation. If your fortunate enough to own a T2 BPO, your more likely to let the Rp`s roll along. If you do not own a T2 BPO, your more likely to exchange the RP`s for the datacores. Not saying it will be that way for everyone, but it is a dilema I am thinking about now, not owning a BPO but have a stack of RP`s. I was thinking about using something in-game already. We gain RP`s from doing two things, let the RP`s roll along, or do missions for the agents, and gain more RP`s that way. Would it be possible say, the rolled RP`s go towards the lottery, and the mission RP`s go towards datacores? That maybe the wrong way round, but if there was some sort of exchange feature, say 10 rolled over for 5 mission RP`s, that sort of thing then everyone could be happy. Hopefully I put the idea down correctly.
Mack Dorgeans Camelot Innovations	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:26:00 - [85] Everyone complains about T2 BPO seeding until they win one. The fact is, all the times I've won (Basilisk, Nemesis, Astarte, Piranha Fury, and Skiff), I had worked up points by doing daily missions for the agents. Three of the wins were from agents in low-sec, where fewer players are likely to have points built up. I played the percentages and got lucky. I sold the missile print after a little research done to it, sold the Skiff after it had lost most of its value, and traded the Basilisk for an Oneiros print. The Nemesis isn't even worth building for the profit margin it has in most markets, so I make BPCs out of it. Obviously the Astarte is my pride and joy, and it does make good money, but it is by no means on the level of a HAC BPO or some of the nicer modules. Sure, I could sell it for a large cash infusion and wisely invest that cash to make myself money faster than I do by building Astartes, but I LIKE to build things. My corpmates also like that they can get at-cost Astartes to fly. I'm all for a better system than the lottery, but invention isn't it, at least not yet. Invention is an interesting concept, but so far it looks like it's a lot more work for a poor-stats BPC. The lottery may not be great, but it's a system anyone can use. I know a guy who got a Crane BPO with a level 1 agent he never did missions for and had only built up 11k points with. If a player wants T2 prints and doesn't at least have one agent running, they have no room to complain about the system. As far as my suggestion for seeding additional copies of the older BPOs over time rather than all in one period of a few months, it doesn't help me personally in any way. If they're all seeded quickly, I have better chances to win more because I have several agents with a lot of points right now, and the longer it takes for the BPOs to be awarded, the more players (and points) there are competing with me. As for my "monopoly" on the prints I currently own, again most of them have thin profit margins and won't be significantly affected by any form of additional T2 BPO seeding, lottery or not. The only one I stand much chance of losing profits on is the Astarte, but again I like having the print because my friends and I can fly the ship, so I'll never sell it. People can whine at T2 BPO owners like me all they want if it makes them feel better, but the bottom line is no matter what the system, some people are going to have multiple T2 BPOs and others will have none. If it were more of a direct system where you had to do x, y, and z to be guaranteed of getting a BPO, you can be sure the big production corps and alliances with the largest resources and manpower are going to find ways to corner the market on the prints. In my mind, that's even worse than the random system we have now. If it were up to me, all T2 BPOs would go directly to the markets once all the lottery copies have been in circulation for maybe 1.5 to 2 years, but it will never happen. I also think copy times on T2 should be equal to build times, which would give T2 BPO owners more reason to make BPCs and then get them into the hands of people who want to skill for building T2 but don't own their own BPOs. But, hey, that's just my opinion.
Kahor Minmatar Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:51:00 - [86] Edited by: Kahor on 30/11/2006 17:55:11 Hehe, after telling us one year ago that CCP (and noone for that matter) wasn't happy with the way t2 bpos were seeded, they do it all over again. I am sorry but this is just plain stupid, seed t2 bpos, but not through a lottery. thank you. ---------------- An eye for an eye make a whole world blind.
Dreamdancer Minmatar Ceryshen Strategic Analysis Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:01:00 - [87] Quick question... Has any of the T2 rigging BPO's been seeded yet? The T2 rigs are listed on the market but have yet to see one for sale. Of course considering the salvaged bits required to make them and the time consuming effort to get those said bits they may simply not have had time to start cranking them out yet. We are recruiting!
Chunzen Frunghen Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:13:00 - [88] Edited by: Chunzen Frunghen on 30/11/2006 18:19:46 Edited by: Chunzen Frunghen on 30/11/2006 18:18:04 The lottery is really something hard to win, and lots of players are somewhat disapointed with invention. i personaly think that is too early to know what will change in the t2 market from now on... If after some time invention turns on a failure, then CCP should make a way that players can get t2 BPOS from invention. The invention should be made using a t1 BPO, and if the invention process fail, you loose the BPO , if everything goes right you get a "special edition" T2 bpo. These Bpos should be very ineficient, no Me/Pe research on them, and the manufacturing time should be really high (maybe around 10 times the normal t2 bpo production time, maybe more depending of the item). This way, small corps will have a (slow) way to produce tech 2 items and this can bring more fair prices to some t2 items and ships. Sorry if my english is not good at all...
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:18:00 - [89] Just seed all the god**** T2 BPOs to the market and leave the whole thing in the hands of the T2 component/material producers, which is what the fracking T2 market should be based on Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!!
BlueIceQueen	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:46:00 - [90] Matori Kar how bout no....... seeding the prints to the extent of them being like t1 is a joke i think it was said best in the blueprints chan last night. those of you already looking to get t2 prints through RnD are to greedy. you get new content and demand more. cant you guys just be happy with what has been released so far?
Zosimos Sabina Amarr Loot	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:49:00 - [91] No, I'm not happy with T2. Having T2 bpo availability be similar to T1 would be an improvement in my eyes.
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:51:00 - [92] Edited by: Matori Kar on 30/11/2006 18:51:14 Originally by: BlueIceQueen Matori Kar how bout no....... seeding the prints to the extent of them being like t1 is a joke i think it was said best in the blueprints chan last night. those of you already looking to get t2 prints through RnD are to greedy. you get new content and demand more. cant you guys just be happy with what has been released so far? If CCP were to give me 1 bill isk a week for doing nothing then I would be happy.....but then I didnt win any good T2 BPOs did I - I didnt get a feking chance because they were all already gone before I could even approach an R&D agent... Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!!
BlueIceQueen	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:54:00 - [93] your not the only char to be in that boat. there are still people who have been playing since beta who havent even had a sniff of even 1 bpo through RnD unless they bought it
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:00:00 - [94] Originally by: BlueIceQueen your not the only char to be in that boat. there are still people who have been playing since beta who havent even had a sniff of even 1 bpo through RnD unless they bought it And that is supposed to be justification for keeping the system as it is? /sigh /shakes head The T1 system is based on minerals - minerals are an infinite resources. The T2 industry is based on BPO ownership, I think this sucks. It (imo) should be based on T2 materials, these are NOT an infinite supply, and would give POSs far far more importance than currently. T2 prices might crash, but they would still stay very profitable, because of limited resources. If 0.0 alliances don't want to fight over the control of T2 materials, that is their hard luck.....but it (imo) seems to make owning a chunk of 0.0 even more interesting, or at least getting involved in the logistics and material trade and transport.. Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!!
Slaaght Bana Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:03:00 - [95] Originally by: Chribba 'Chribba got no Veldspar BPO' ETA on fix? If you have a Veldspar BPO, you're going to need a lot of Trit. And for that you'll need a lot of Veldspar to get that Trit. .. and what we have there is known as a brain****! I endorse this signature! -Suvetar
Profhet Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:52:00 - [96] I think that this is where the economy/market fails in Eve. Your telling me if Honda was making a product that made them incredible profits, Toyota wouldnt work their asses off to either reverse engineer and improve or duplicate that product? I know that if anything Eve needs a ISK sink, it seems to me too many people have too much ISK, so why not make people who badly want T2 bpos spend the ISK to research for the bpos just like a "real" company would. ____________________________ FEED ON THE DYING
Malena Panic Gallente Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.11.30 20:29:00 - [97] Originally by: Matori Kar The T2 industry [...] should be based on T2 materials, these are NOT an infinite supply, and would give POSs far far more importance than currently. T2 prices might crash, but they would still stay very profitable, because of limited resources. If 0.0 alliances don't want to fight over the control of T2 materials, that is their hard luck.....but it (imo) seems to make owning a chunk of 0.0 even more interesting, or at least getting involved in the logistics and material trade and transport.. Bingo. Seeding the T2 BPOs on the market will bring the moribund T2 component production market to the fore, involving many more players, encouraging the further industrialization of 0.0, opening up many more opportunities for conflict and player interaction, etc. It's the right thing to do.
BlueIceQueen	Posted - 2006.11.30 20:36:00 - [98] Edited by: BlueIceQueen on 30/11/2006 20:36:09 Originally by: Matori Kar And that is supposed to be justification for keeping the system as it is? /sigh /shakes head The T1 system is based on minerals - minerals are an infinite resources. The T2 industry is based on BPO ownership, I think this sucks. It (imo) should be based on T2 materials, these are NOT an infinite supply, and would give POSs far far more importance than currently. T2 prices might crash, but they would still stay very profitable, because of limited resources. If 0.0 alliances don't want to fight over the control of T2 materials, that is their hard luck.....but it (imo) seems to make owning a chunk of 0.0 even more interesting, or at least getting involved in the logistics and material trade and transport.. lol you crak me up. i didnt say that as a justification more to put you at ease so that you know your not the only player in this game who is in the same situation. anyway as for the release of new t2 bpos as long as they dont flood the market like t1, I'm happy. if however they do flood the market with them then a lot of people will be smiling except those who own the t2 bpos now........ prices on t2 will fall...... 0.0 pos owners will get a nice isk intake monthly thanx to this which may drive component prices up or down a little due to the amount of people who are currently producing them. as for current situation i feel that it should be looked at in stages before addressing it any further and im sure ccp knows this already
DeODokktor Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2006.11.30 21:32:00 - [99] more t2 bpo's will not help. As it has been stated before. People who win often sell so the big t2 builders keep buying more bpo's.. -or- noobs start making the price so crap that no one wnats to produce. Bustard, Medium shld transporter II (Great examples).. they both went really rare even tho 1 producer of each module could keep the markets saturated. Reason: Undercutting made them **** near worth 0 so people quit building... Invention (depending on the ease of it) will bust monopolys and drive some of the really high priced items down (plus pick up on some of the undersupply problems).. new t2 bpo's would possibly drive prices to such crap that many modules&items would be on the market one month, off two..
Serapis Aote TBC	Posted - 2006.11.30 21:40:00 - [100] Originally by: Malena Panic Originally by: Matori Kar The T2 industry [...] should be based on T2 materials, these are NOT an infinite supply, and would give POSs far far more importance than currently. T2 prices might crash, but they would still stay very profitable, because of limited resources. If 0.0 alliances don't want to fight over the control of T2 materials, that is their hard luck.....but it (imo) seems to make owning a chunk of 0.0 even more interesting, or at least getting involved in the logistics and material trade and transport.. Bingo. Seeding the T2 BPOs on the market will bring the moribund T2 component production market to the fore, involving many more players, encouraging the further industrialization of 0.0, opening up many more opportunities for conflict and player interaction, etc. It's the right thing to do. This was always the right answer. It gets more players involved in more aspects of eve. t2 industry is the only real major flaw going in EVE now. If they fixed it by making it a resource based economic engine, as opposed to limited production based engine it would work better. I honestly do not understand why they continue witht the t2 lottery. If they want to keep R&D, just have it so R&D agents give out points and you can trade them in for BPC's at given amounts. As it stands now the market is just stupid, the only people that defend it our those who have the BPO's and even most of them no longer defend it.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.30 21:43:00 - [101] Make invention easier. Theres the answer. Currently, Invention appears to be so expensive and so much effort, you might aswell just buy the 200% mark up one from a BPO owner. That would be a failure. Invention should be letting people create T2 at, say 3x the BPO builder's cost. If the BPO owner wants to sell consistently, they have to lower their price to compete. It brings a real market element. ATM, the only people who can build T2 are "lottery winners", which really does bork up the market. Invention was the golden opportunity to change that- but has missed the mark. It's not even like you couldn't fluff it: "As New Eden's scientists progress with their inventive tasks, their methods are being continually streamlined and improved...." -----------------------------------------------
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.30 22:06:00 - [102] I would be stunned to find that CCP didn't have control of the probabilities of the invention process, and were able to adjust it upwards if it was proving too inefficient.
Ariel Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.30 22:21:00 - [103] Would seeding T2 BPOs to the NPC market increase component demands by an insane amount? Wouldn't this cause a mass movement of people into 0.0 in order to setup moon mining operations, and cause tons of wars and fights over prime territory? Isn't getting people out into 0.0 and 'player interaction' exactly what CCP and most of the regulars on this board constantly preach? Seeding T2 BPOs to NPC would be perfect for both of those factors!
Sir Emi Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.30 23:33:00 - [104] Edited by: Sir Emi on 30/11/2006 23:33:41 The T2 BPOs to start with was a wrong choice, for the player who got it would be chained to that BPO and taking all the fun of his game. Invention is a good thing, if the T2 would have started with Invention only, no T2 BPO's, Eve would have been a better playground :) Oh well, we learn and move on. New stuff is great, good job on Invention. Space Odyssey Maker... http://www.spaceo.net
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2006.11.30 23:38:00 - [105] Simple Fact: It's easier to unnerf Invention that nerf it. No... really. Remember when T2 Laser Crystal copy times were too quick? CCP addressed that fairly rapidly, and there was still a glut of prints on the market post-print-drop. Imagine that with the entire T2 market. Now imagine CCP's situation after the market is flooded with BPCs. What do they do? What can they do?! Better to take baby steps by unnerfing something market-related than to bjork the whole market by being overzealous (no offense to Amarr intended).
Pooka Caldari United Space Aillance USA	Posted - 2006.12.01 00:30:00 - [106] Edited by: Pooka on 01/12/2006 00:30:22 Yes please bring back the T2 BPO loyto AND invention. Something for everyone = win / win Proud memmber of the 3 Word: p·ca (POO-kuh) [pu:k@] Meaning: p·ca = goblin, sprite, pooka
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2006.12.01 00:31:00 - [107] Guys enough with the expert market statistician crap, just let them seed the T2 BPOS. The lottery is here to stay, there's no fighting it.
Akui Loa	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:09:00 - [108] Edited by: Akui Loa on 01/12/2006 02:11:10 Let's start this bit of work off with a solid foundation, shall we? No use in raising questions or making suggestions if the goal of the solution and actual nature of the problem isn't defined clearly, right? So what is the goal? Well, what are we doing? Debating a game mechanic within a science fiction multiplayer gaming universe. Right now you might be having and epiphany or questioning your own existance. Ignore that. This is more important. Ok. So what is in essence the goal of a good solid competitive mmorpg game mechanic? How about... To provide a reasonably balanced and rewarding set of game mechanics designed to facilitate and encourage player to player and player to environment interaction within the gaming environment in the interest of positive gameplay, competition, and growth. In this case, Research. The whole enchilda. Sounds tasty doesn't it? Mmm. Enchiladas. Everyone loves enchiladas. Ok, not everyone. For the sake of argument lets say the entire EVE playerbase who is interested in the entire fact of gameplay known as Research loves enchiladas. Trust me. The idea is to jam pack our Research Enchilada with the above tastiness - the goal of any good mmorpg game mechanic. Now let's get back to the problem... Research basically boils down into two distinct portions, currently. The T2 BPO Lottery and Invention. Let's look at both compared to the given goal. T2 BPO Lottery... accumulate RP, random lotto to determine T2 BPO winners, once fully seeded system still exists but is pointless. Reasonable Balance... Everyone who invests in Science skills can generate RP through Research Agents. Check. Rewarding... The winners of the lottery in effect get to enjoy a lifetime supply of Mammoths crammed full of gold-foil wrapped enchiladas. Rewarding? Mmmm. Check. Facilitate Player to Player and Player to Environment Interaction... Hmm. This one is tricky. Once they have the T2 BPO they really don't ever need to bother with the Research system ever again. It could be argued they stimulate the economy, but so would any other form of T2 production not based on a lottery system. Fail. Positive Gameplay, Competition, Growth... The system rewards less than 1% of the Research population for putting forth a random amount of effort. Gameplay, fail. Competition, monopoly, fail. Growth, alienate new and old players alike who are attracted to a Research dynamic, fail. Invention... a resource (time, RP, ISK) intensive method of 'inventing' an inferior (ME, PE, limited run) copy of a T2 BPO. Reasonable Balance... by itself? Check. Coupled with the lottery? Fail. Rewarding... by itself? Check. Coupled with the lottery? It only becomes rewarding once you realize your chance of obtaining T2 BPs of any sort through your own effort is 0%. Fail. Facilitate Player to Player and Player to Environment Interaction? Check, no doubt. Positive Gameplay, Competition, and Growth... by itself? Check. Coupled with the lottery? Fail. So, currently, neither system fits out goal. They both fail. Why? Because the T2 BPO Lottery system is a mechanic designed to fail. You will never balance a system containing this mechanic because it doesn't work on a gameplay level. You choose to alienate your playerbase and remove an entire facet of gameplay. Not even Invention can save the Lotto system. Lotto, "They're starving for an opportunity to experience science and industrial gameplay? But there are no more enchiladas! Give them Invention! Let them eat cake!" We all know what happened to the last person to use that phrase. A lotto only works as a mechanic if the results are finite and recyclable. For all those 'that's how a lotto works irl' fans, a lotto blesses the winners with cash, not a cash printing machine. Eventually even the cash runs out.
Akui Loa	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:15:00 - [109] I'm personally in favor of what I like to call the B3 system. B3 stands for A Blueprint is a Blueprint is a Blueprint. No more BPOs, no more BPCs. Just BPs. BPs can have ME and PE researched. BPs also work for a limited number of runs. Lotto winners win high run, high quality BPs for T2 goods. Invention grinders get low run, low quality BPs for T2 goods. Save your RP and still get lucky on a Lotto BP or spend it on Datawidgets and get a immidiate but lower quality Invention BP. Give the current BPO owners a very high run BP. For the sake percentages and throwing out mechanics let's say an arbitrary 1000 runs. Once 100 of those runs are burned, seed another 100 run BP through the Lotto system.
Naal Morno ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:47:00 - [110] Ok, you people are all talking about seeding T2 bpos to market (and therefore removing any need for T1 items) to "revolutionize" 0.0 space due to materials items would need to be built... Here is the solution to your 0.0 enrgizing envy. Change build requirements of T1 stuff to include T2 comps. Your problems just got solved. _________________________________________ Once I thought T2 BPO Lottery is a problem... Then I've become a part of problem and I relized that previously I was just plain jealous.
Mack Dorgeans Camelot Innovations	Posted - 2006.12.01 04:01:00 - [111] Originally by: Patch86 Make invention easier. Theres the answer. Currently, Invention appears to be so expensive and so much effort, you might aswell just buy the 200% mark up one from a BPO owner. That would be a failure. Invention should be letting people create T2 at, say 3x the BPO builder's cost. If the BPO owner wants to sell consistently, they have to lower their price to compete. It brings a real market element. ATM, the only people who can build T2 are "lottery winners", which really does bork up the market. Invention was the golden opportunity to change that- but has missed the mark. It's not even like you couldn't fluff it: "As New Eden's scientists progress with their inventive tasks, their methods are being continually streamlined and improved...." FYI, 3x the T2 BPO holder's build cost is well above what I'm currently getting for Astartes. Oneiros I'm lucky if some fool is willing to pay 2x. Nemesis, well let's just say 1.3x is a darn good day in the major markets. These are just examples why it's not always easy to adjust things. Demand on a Cerberus or a Cap Recharger II makes 3x a rather cheap modifier, but not every T2 BPO was created equal.
Ira Theos	Posted - 2006.12.01 04:36:00 - [112] Ok Gentlemen, let's cut to the chase. It seems all the complaints about EVE being rigged in favor of the T2 CARTEL have not fallen on completely deaf ears. CCP says it is time to add to the T2 BPOs in circulation.... BUT DOES CCP HAVE THE WILL TO DO WHAT IS NECESSARY TO BREAK THE CARTEL?? I'm not sure they do. You will note the BPO GODS (CVA as an example already whining here to retain their Goose that lays the golden eggs. And I had to laugh when the other guy said he was a "small time T2 BPO player and he only had 10 billion in his account...LOL.) They will not release their sole grip on that Goose voluntarily. "A few" new BPOs will not accomplish anything as they will quickly be bought up by the BPO GODS who have most of the isk in the game anyway (due to CCPs royal screwup with the lottery in the first place). IF CCP WANTS TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD IN THIS GAME SO THAT THE HAVE-NOTS HAVE AN EQUAL CHANCE IN THIS GAME TO ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING, THEY NEED TO CONTINUE TO PUMP BPOs INTO THE SYSTEM UNTIL THE CARTEL MEMBERS ARE BROKE FROM ATTEMPTING TO BUY OUT THE BPOs AS THEY ARE ISSUED. Personally I am very doubtful they will do this because of their lack of understanding of basic economics. If they understood this, they would never have introduced the lottery to begin with. It has disrupted the game and created a monster and it will take radical "Trust Busting" to correct the problem and bring a level playing field back to the game for all players. (NO I'M NOT SAYING ALL PLAYERS SHOULD HAVE THE SAME ISK!!! I'M SAYING ALL PLAYERS SHOULD HAVE THE SAME OPPORTUNITY TO ACQUIRE ISK THROUGH THE GAME SYSTEM AND NOT BE GIVEN EXCLUSIVE ALL-POWERFUL ISK-PRINTING RIGHTS BY VIRTUE OF A FLAWED AND ARBITRARY DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM.) Why should they do this? One reason.... TO AVOID SUBSCRIPTION LOSS..... FROM A) PLAYERS WHO WILL QUIT WHEN THEY REALIZE THAT THEY CANNOT HOPE TO COMPETE IN ANY ACTIVITY WITH THE BPO GODS, AND B) PEOPLE IN THE GAMING COMMUNITY WHO ARE INCREASINGLY AWARE OF THE IMBALANCE IN EVE AND WHO WILL BE DISSUADED FROM EVER SUBSCRIBING BECAUSE THEY KNOW THE GAME IS "RIGGED". WHO WANTS TO PLAY POKER, WHEN THEY KNOW THE DECK IS "STACKED"? NOBODY!
Le Pecarosh	Posted - 2006.12.01 05:04:00 - [113] Originally by: Naal Morno Ok, you people are all talking about seeding T2 bpos to market (and therefore removing any need for T1 items) to "revolutionize" 0.0 space due to materials items would need to be built... Here is the solution to your 0.0 enrgizing envy. Change build requirements of T1 stuff to include T2 comps. Your problems just got solved. Oh, T2 BPO thread wouldn't be complete without your valuable input, would it? And your sig does reflect it well, you (and many other T2 BPO holders) are a part of a problem...
Wicke Gallente Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.01 05:31:00 - [114] How do you expect the BIG alliances to build Titans w/o the free money every day. So, is the t2 bpo the ISK sink? Its just the ways to the means.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Two Brothers Mining Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.01 05:43:00 - [115] Originally by: Wicke How do you expect the BIG alliances to build Titans w/o the free money every day. So, is the t2 bpo the ISK sink? Its just the ways to the means. And the "free money" you're talking about is coming from T2 BPOs? Do you happen to be T2 BPO owner, by any chance?
Wicke Gallente Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.01 06:06:00 - [116] Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Wicke How do you expect the BIG alliances to build Titans w/o the free money every day. So, is the t2 bpo the ISK sink? Its just the ways to the means. And the "free money" you're talking about is coming from T2 BPOs? Do you happen to be T2 BPO owner, by any chance? No. My numerous RnD agents seem to be lazy. Wouldve been nice tho. Multiplying ISk instead of adding ISK wouldve made my eve life much easier. (ty to all my friends who give me good prices, you guys are the exception of course)
oodin Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.01 12:22:00 - [117] Originally by: Splagada was months ago, but would you believe a former corpmate of mine had a heat diss 2 bpo, omg, when i asked her how in the freaking hell she said it was because she smartly said NO to the TWO first offers of bpos she had from her agent. ****it!! THIRD offer lol i think i then lied in foetal position and cried for the rest of the day
JeanPierre	Posted - 2006.12.01 13:07:00 - [118] Originally by: Naal Morno Ok, you people are all talking about seeding T2 bpos to market (and therefore removing any need for T1 items) to "revolutionize" 0.0 space due to materials items would need to be built... Here is the solution to your 0.0 enrgizing envy. Change build requirements of T1 stuff to include T2 comps. Your problems just got solved. You're right. The problem of inexpensive ships for new players would go away. ****, why didn't I see this before? We should also encourage CCP to charge up the new player credit cards to their credit limit. That'll show'em.
Martinez Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.12.01 14:29:00 - [119] Reading this thread has made me realize how dumb some of you people really are. 1. Getting rid of the lotto is dumb because there isnt a fair way to give out t2 bpos by any other way than by chance. hence LOTTO! 2. If you made it mission based, the people who play eve all day will win over people in school and work. 3. If you get rid of t2 bpos and make only copies, for the people who say that have no idea what it takes to produce t2 items. they are very skill intensive, take large amounts of time organizing components, ships, mins etc. so when Person A gets his 5 run bpc he doesnt have the skills or the know how to build the ** things. this will create even more of a shortage. 4. There are some ships and mods that have been lost or are not used. yes they should be reseeded. also the older bpos that got released and had much fewer released could use some reseeding, example hacs, interceptors, and a few mods. But the more recent t2 bpos released where released with much greater numbers, so they dont need to be reseeded. 5. FOR THE PEOPLE THAT SAY T2 MAKERS GET FREE MONEY, YOU ARE IDIOTS IF YOU THINK THAT. i would say 75% of t2 bpos make little to no profit. yes there are some bpos out there that make huge profit, a few hacs and a few mods. i know that the **ation, Propator, and Purifier make NO money. the time and effort it takes to make them just makes them not worth producing. So to wrap this up, t2 stuff is going to be continue to be seeded in the lotto. take the month or two in training get some agents and get in there and do it yourself. quit complaining! t3 will be done differently i am sure.
Allen Deckard Gallente LFC Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.01 14:45:00 - [120] Personally with the new setup it seems to me the amount of t2 items would be fairly easy to control without over or under saturating the market. All it would take is adjusting the rp required to get the bpc's As far as not having the skills to produce said t2 item with your bpc as the above poster suggested? You realize you have to have those skills in order to have the agent correct? And if someone did get the bpc without the skills then it just opens market for buyers. The current lottery sucks. Not cause it aint fair. Not cause some get rich. Simply cause it only allows a select few to play in that portion of the game. There are alot of people that pay to play eve. T2 is an part that many never get the chance. It also requires no effort to get into just luck. Not much in eve is based soley on luck without any effort involved. By just adjusting what rp it takes to get the requred materials to make bpc's as the current new system add's some game play in making t2. It also self adjusts the market prices on items simply cause if something is over priced people will make the over priced item.
Martinez Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.12.01 15:05:00 - [121] last time i checked crusier construction 5 wasnt needed to get a agent that would give you a command ship bpo.
Akui Loa	Posted - 2006.12.01 15:22:00 - [122] You're right, because the way the Lotto currently works if you win a BPO you automatically are blessed with all the necessary skills to produce it effectively. Oh, wait... The point that some people seem to be missing is that a game mechanic that completely shuts out the vast majority of interested players is a lousy mechanic, no matter who wins. That is the point. Reseeding only perpetuates a horrible mechanic and makes an actual fix down the road that much more difficult to implement. Invention is a step in the right direction. Reseeding is not.
Silvero Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.01 15:39:00 - [123] As i have said before, Lotto is a bad show. What we should have is a auction, prior to this auction we get a list of the bpo's that's are going to get released and the resarchers can then choose which bpo's they are gonna bid on. And since this is a multiplayer game, groups of ppl should be able to team up in research team's where they can stack thier RP. like in corp's/alliances or even just a bunch of ppl. Bring the pvp to the labs aswell
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.01 15:56:00 - [124] Originally by: Silvero As i have said before, Lotto is a bad show. What we should have is a auction, prior to this auction we get a list of the bpo's that's are going to get released and the resarchers can then choose which bpo's they are gonna bid on. And since this is a multiplayer game, groups of ppl should be able to team up in research team's where they can stack thier RP. like in corp's/alliances or even just a bunch of ppl. Bring the pvp to the labs aswell Ummm I hope they reseed lost and destroyed tech II bpo. I hope those that dont like the tech II which works and now invention just keep on buying! Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead . Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:02:00 - [125] Originally by: Martinez Reading this thread has made me realize how dumb some of you people really are. 1. Getting rid of the lotto is dumb because there isnt a fair way to give out t2 bpos by any other way than by chance. hence LOTTO! 2. If you made it mission based, the people who play eve all day will win over people in school and work. 3. If you get rid of t2 bpos and make only copies, for the people who say that have no idea what it takes to produce t2 items. they are very skill intensive, take large amounts of time organizing components, ships, mins etc. so when Person A gets his 5 run bpc he doesnt have the skills or the know how to build the ** things. this will create even more of a shortage. 4. There are some ships and mods that have been lost or are not used. yes they should be reseeded. also the older bpos that got released and had much fewer released could use some reseeding, example hacs, interceptors, and a few mods. But the more recent t2 bpos released where released with much greater numbers, so they dont need to be reseeded. 5. FOR THE PEOPLE THAT SAY T2 MAKERS GET FREE MONEY, YOU ARE IDIOTS IF YOU THINK THAT. i would say 75% of t2 bpos make little to no profit. yes there are some bpos out there that make huge profit, a few hacs and a few mods. i know that the **ation, Propator, and Purifier make NO money. the time and effort it takes to make them just makes them not worth producing. So to wrap this up, t2 stuff is going to be continue to be seeded in the lotto. take the month or two in training get some agents and get in there and do it yourself. quit complaining! t3 will be done differently i am sure. You are an odd combination of intelligence and stupidity. I say that some some who likes the lotto concept. Wherever you went - here you are.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:28:00 - [126] This thread is just one more example that ignorance != bliss.
Sarf	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:37:00 - [127] If the T2 lotto was changed to a auction then only the very rich would get any T2 bpo. I know characters that are willing to drop 40bn on a T2 ship BPO. I have been playing since Beta, never gotten a T2 BPO in that entire time (running all 5 agents) and have no where near 40bn to buy a bpo. so in short a loto is the only fair way. I have no problem with doing both, but leave the guy that can't pay the HUGE prices a chance. Say 10% released by Auction and 90% by lotto. Basically have everyone bid for 1 month. and at the end of that month the top X bids get BPOs. mean while 90% of the PO are going out to the loto for anyone with RP to get.
Hajyt	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:54:00 - [128] Anybody have any stats on how many t2 bpo's are actually out there? vs The actual number of active accounts? The t2 market should be rarer than t1 definatly, but have to keep people from price gouging. If you hurt 100 people to make a game of 50k-75k more balanced...its a good tradeoff.
Zan Tu	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:55:00 - [129] See sig... "R&D Lottery: A Tax on people with poor math skills..."
Silvero Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.01 18:19:00 - [130] Originally by: Sarf If the T2 lotto was changed to a auction then only the very rich would get any T2 bpo. I know characters that are willing to drop 40bn on a T2 ship BPO. I have been playing since Beta, never gotten a T2 BPO in that entire time (running all 5 agents) and have no where near 40bn to buy a bpo. so in short a loto is the only fair way. I have no problem with doing both, but leave the guy that can't pay the HUGE prices a chance. Say 10% released by Auction and 90% by lotto. Basically have everyone bid for 1 month. and at the end of that month the top X bids get BPOs. mean while 90% of the PO are going out to the loto for anyone with RP to get. Previous post "And since this is a multiplayer game, groups of ppl should be able to team up in research team's where they can stack thier RP." RP != isk An auction using RP instead of isk ofc.
Martinez Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:04:00 - [131] For those complaining about the t2 lotto system, how would you do it? i have not seen one post on a better way yet. Only complaints on hows it not fair and WHAA!!! I also didnt know guns had been held to some players heads by i am guessing ccp, making it where they could not get to use the lotto system.
Malena Panic Gallente Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:24:00 - [132] Originally by: Martinez For those complaining about the t2 lotto system, how would you do it? i have not seen one post on a better way yet. Only complaints on hows it not fair and WHAA!!! You could read the thread and attempt to rebut the suggestions contained therein.
Martinez Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:29:00 - [133] you also could read the thread and see i did at the top of page 5.
Malena Panic Gallente Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:47:00 - [134] Originally by: Martinez you also could read the thread and see i did at the top of page 5. Calling a suggestion 'dumb' is not a rebuttal, dummy.
Martinez Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:57:00 - [135] I am starting to think you dont read well. ok let me break this down for you like i would a small child. the points i made after the " dumb " comment where in response to why getting rid of the lotto at this time wont work. so i will try again. 1. lotto system is in place and for t2 stuff its not going away. 2. no one has come up with a completely fair way to do the bpo give aways. 3. t2 bpo owners do have to work hard to keep their bpos producing. 4. most t2 bpos dont make unreal profit, like i said earlier alot of them make 0 money. 5. I didnt call peoples suggestions "dumb", i called the people themselves "dumb"
Malena Panic Gallente Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.12.01 21:22:00 - [136] Originally by: Martinez I am starting to think you dont read well. ok let me break this down for you like i would a small child. Again, not very constructive. Also not useful if you want people to read your arguments.
Popsikle Caffeine Commodities Company Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.01 21:27:00 - [137] Originally by: Martinez I am starting to think you dont read well. ok let me break this down for you like i would a small child. the points i made after the " dumb " comment where in response to why getting rid of the lotto at this time wont work. so i will try again. 1. lotto system is in place and for t2 stuff its not going away. 2. no one has come up with a completely fair way to do the bpo give aways. 3. t2 bpo owners do have to work hard to keep their bpos producing. 4. most t2 bpos dont make unreal profit, like i said earlier alot of them make 0 money. 5. I didnt call peoples suggestions "dumb", i called the people themselves "dumb" Ive been around for all of tech2, and with almost 1 million RP on my toons Ive yet to get an offer.... I dont see why now that the new contract system is in place the t2's cant be auctioned off for RP. It gives those of us who got ****** a higher chance of getting a bpo then those that already have them (assuming the same realitive RP/day) but those that actually worked for thier agents an even better chance. Whats the downside to that? __________________________________________ -= We Fly for our people =- -= I fly for Blood =-
Father Weebles Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2006.12.01 21:40:00 - [138] Originally by: Martinez 4. most t2 bpos dont make unreal profit, like i said earlier alot of them make 0 money. most of the tech2 stuff that everybody uses DO make ****loads of isk. Nobody uses cap batteries or shield transporters so theyre worth 0 but that isnt relevant since the stuff that ise used often (large armor reps II, energized adaptive nano II, invul field II, tech2 large guns etc etc) is incredibly profitable. "Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control."
Martinez Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.12.01 21:45:00 - [139] well i am guess the people complaining about not getting to do the lotto system are saying they dont have enough rp to get a t2 bpo. so there being a auction would only allow the people who have been playing along time and gotten alot of rp to get the bpos. that would make it even more unfair. at least if you start reseach you have a chance. that is where i dont understand why people are complaining really. everyone in eve is allowed to do those agents. the people who put the time in to train, run the research missions, and did the other missions to get a high enough standing are the ones that get the bpos. I myself have 5 agents, have gotten one bpo, the assualt launcher 2. I traded the assualt launcher bpo, for the purifier bpo. which i traded with the damnation and propator bpos for the sleipnir. the damnation and the propator i got because myself and a corpmate of mine worked our asses off to get them. so all of you crying about not getting stuff, STFU and go work for it. this whole thread is about people wanting free stuff, well like the real world, you have to work for 95% of what you get.
Martinez Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.12.01 21:56:00 - [140] i am going to point to the top of page five, as i said yes some bpos make really good money. some make huge money. but over all about 75% of the t2 bpos dont make money. so pointing out hacs, cap rechargers, and guns really doesnt help your point. its the fleet command ships other than the eos, the blockaid runners, the stealth bombers(which might be better after patch), logistics ships, and the mods that are worthless. hell until the lately after the changes made to them the sacrilidge sold for crap, same goes for the eagle and munin. all i am saying is dont base the whole t2 market on a small % of the bpos.
Za Po Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:09:00 - [141] Originally by: Silvero An auction using RP instead of isk ofc. Uhm... why do you want to give all new BPOs to the big alliances, giving no chance to small corps and independant researchers? Because this is the obvious consequence of an auction system, whether in RP or isk or whatever.
incist	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:11:00 - [142] Quote: Ive been around for all of tech2, and with almost 1 million RP on my toons Ive yet to get an offer.... I dont see why now that the new contract system is in place the t2's cant be auctioned off for RP. It gives those of us who got ****** a higher chance of getting a bpo then those that already have them (assuming the same realitive RP/day) but those that actually worked for thier agents an even better chance. Whats the downside to that? =) qft
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2006.12.01 23:01:00 - [143] So inane discussion on changing the lottery aside when is the blog due out?
Fren Mallow Gallente Bluestar Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.01 23:04:00 - [144] Edited by: Fren Mallow on 01/12/2006 23:25:57 Edited by: Fren Mallow on 01/12/2006 23:24:10 edited typos and word orders for (hopefully) better understanding For a game where you get told at every damn edge it's about PVP and PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT, those T2 Lotto is the biggest crap i've ever seen!! What should be the point of T2-Items!? They should be RARE, hard to get, uncommon, elite... (for who must be a question here also - the lucky ones? the 23/7er ones? the smartest ones? the griefiest ones?) Fine, nothing against that. But then CCP, tell us, which kind of player you prefer above the others! But why does CCP then put PLAYERS in charge for SUPPLEMENT of those rare items? I mean.. if it's all about the rareness of the items, why don't you give out the items instead of infinite-running-item-craft-mechanisms? What does RARE mean, anyways? I would say, a restricted number of created/supplied items per year or month or day.. (naturally in opposition to that, are unrare, common items aviable in infinite amounts ..maybe oly restricted by respawn rates of ore) However.. uncommon, RARE things DO HAVE A VALUE, ALLWAYS (you'll never get around this, never!) And in most (if not all) economies this planet has seen, TIME is the key to this. Either it's the time, which was needed to get the item crafted or it was the time needed to wait for it to fell from heaven or just materialize in your hangar. One unit Tritanium got it's value from the time, you need to obtain it from the roids (with the average aviable most advanced technic.. f.i.: covetor, strips aso.) and this time is then compared to every other crafting process and the items, which where created in those fields (running missions, complexes, mine moons .. aso) We have a market.. it's an unfree market with borders and restrictions.. so everything has a value to the people ON this market. Rareness of items DEMANDED translates into high prices, ALLWAYS! So why do you give the Supplement into the hands of a few, instead of the items to a broader mass, if it's for rareness only?! It's all about the rare ITEMS!!! Comming to the point for all of this... The PLAYERS want a "fair" system, where EVERYBODY gets the same chance for such a ITEM, not for the BP! The PLAYERS don't want to upset the people with only 2-4h playing time per week! The PLAYERS don't want to upset the people who are here 23/7! The PLAYERS don't want isk-printing machines for an elite of players! We ARE THE PLAYERS! I'm a player, and I DON'T WANT TO BE UPSET! Solution might be... Give out restricted BP's ONLY from now on.. AND keep the lottery going on FOREVER. What would you loose by this, CCP?! No Dev has given an answer to this 100x brought up suggestion by now!!! Or srew with it and let invention happen to the system NOW and let the market deal with it. Make it hard for those T2 stuff (at the moment it already looks like), make it fu*** damn hard, make it so sty damn hard as you can, but don't upset ME, cause I'M A PLAYER! I really can't see the point in making an elite of players.. I really can't see the point in upset >95% of your customers, CCP! I really can't understand how you on one side, propagate a PLAYER DRIVEN COMMUNITY and CONTENT and MARKET* and all that stuff with REAL competition and at the other side implement such an UNFAIR system, in the eyes of so many of your customers... I really don't get the point behind this. T2 LOTTO with infinite running BP comming OUT of the process is UNFAIR CCP and UPSETS ME!
BlueIceQueen	Posted - 2006.12.02 02:13:00 - [145] Originally by: Fren Mallow I really can't see the point in upset >95% of your customers, CCP! customers are usually those who pay, NOT those who use their isk to buy gtc's which probably 30% if not more of the eve community does. Originally by: Fren Mallow I really can't understand how you on one side, propagate a PLAYER DRIVEN COMMUNITY and CONTENT and MARKET and all that stuff with REAL competition and at the other side implement such an UNFAIR system, in the eyes of so many of your customers... I really don't get the point behind this. i think your views on the market need to be broaderned if you think of the market as one whole. there are several markets in game ranging from faction, T2 and T1 with several sub divisions ships / mods / trade goods and so on. Originally by: Fren Mallow T2 LOTTO with infinite running BP comming OUT of the process is UNFAIR CCP and UPSETS ME! blueicequeen* passes Fern Mallow a box of tissues
Fren Mallow Gallente Bluestar Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.02 02:42:00 - [146] Originally by: BlueIceQueen Originally by: Fren Mallow I really can't see the point in upset >95% of your customers, CCP! customers are usually those who pay, NOT those who use their isk to buy gtc's which probably 30% if not more of the eve community does. Any numbers ready to back this up, or is this just a "wise" imagination from you? And even if only 70% of the players where game time payers by their own hand.. what does this change on the statement I made? Aren't 70% percent of PLAYERS worth to be heard over? Are you allready that high above those 70%, that you don't have to care about their thoughts?! Makes me think, your're one of the more luky T2 bpo holder.. Originally by:* BlueIceQueen Originally by: Fren Mallow I really can't understand how you on one side, propagate a PLAYER DRIVEN COMMUNITY and CONTENT and MARKET and all that stuff with REAL competition and at the other side implement such an UNFAIR system, in the eyes of so many of your customers... I really don't get the point behind this. i think your views on the market need to be broaderned if you think of the market as one whole. there are several markets in game ranging from faction, T2 and T1 with several sub divisions ships / mods / trade goods and so on. Nice try, mate. All those markets relate to each other OVER an universe-wide-currency, called ISK. Every damn item in Eve on the market gets compared by this little feature to all other items. News for ya? And btw. what do several submarkets have to do with the problem, that some "by whatever method" selected players BECOME forever suppliers of items (and by that a wealthy Elite), which should be RARE by definition (from CCP)? - Where EVERYBODY on this planet knows, that RARE items are high priced? What would be the problem for EVE, when the next lottery only puts out run restricted BPs? Wouldn't that be even better, than what we have now? Every know and then one can get lucky, instead of alltime-luckie's.. Come on.. give me an answer on this, which took you longer than 5sec to think about. Originally by: BlueIceQueen Originally by: Fren Mallow T2 LOTTO with infinite running BP comming OUT of the process is UNFAIR CCP and UPSETS ME! blueicequeen* passes Fern Mallow a box of tissues Anybody else with a 1min no-brain-reply?!
Matrix Aran Legio Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.02 06:19:00 - [147] You could just hold onto your RP's and farm the exploration sites for datacores :) ---- Originally by: Wrangler It's a neuralizer.
CelticWarrior Lords Of Guile Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.12.02 09:31:00 - [148] I believe a large release of T2 BPO's in some fields is called for. With the Hyperion, Rokh and Megathron now all fielding Large Hybrid Turrets the demand for these weapons sees the Caldari's Rokh joining the Gallente Race ships for the same weapons which are shall we say already "fully priced" on the market. The Minmatar's new Maelstrom has 8 Turret points compared to the Tempest's 6 and so it could be argued with 1400mm T2 selling for 15 mill a bit of new Bpo love here as well is in order, plus some autocannons.We probably also need to factor in the Amarr, some of who are unhappy with the cap on there new ship and are busily training up for minmatar weapons (by adding the new 5% damage to projectiles and not to the minmatar battleships the amarr crossdressing decision was predictable). Also with the bonuses on these new ships like the Maelstrom coming with its shield bonus we could use some new Armor/Shield Rep and Hardners, Invuln etc Bpo's of the large variety and medium for the Battlecruisers. Thats just a quick list, i'm sure the same can be argued for the Battlecruisers as more Turret/Launcher Hardpoints = more demand on the market which usually leads to rampant inflation in Eve. With the price of weapons and tanking equipment already unbearable to a large group of the playerbase who only have a couple of hours to play at a time its time for CCP to put the brakes on this runaway train of a market. At the end of the day its the casual player subscripions where a game like Eve makes its profit from.
Swedde Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.02 09:57:00 - [149] Edited by: Swedde on 02/12/2006 09:59:21 What about this.. 3 ideas 1. Keep all current BPOs, don't seed any more. Have agents seed new shinny BPCs in 5, 10 or 20 runs. Have a stable amount of BPCs. 2. Turn all current BPOs into BPCs with a year and halfs supply of runs, ie if you can produce 1 item per day make it in to a 500 run BPC. Most T2 producers look at 1 years return or so. Again seed a fair and stable amount of BPCs (5-20 runs) through R&D agents. 3. The problem with the current system is that people have paid a lot if isks for their BPOs so, have a system where CCP EVE international buys all current issued BPOs for a fair and good isk price. Set a time limit as to when trades have to be made and then take all T2 BPOs out of circulation. Implement BPCs system as above. Pros: This would make people work for the copies (with agents) and everybody would have a much better chance of making a good amount of isk (not obsene). BPCs trading and R&D agents+research gets new needed life. CCP would be able to control the market slightly with the amount of seeding of BPCs, at the end of the day a high price on T2 items will eventually turn people away from playing this game. If you are serious about EVE (and you want to win your fights) you need to use T2 stuff. Cons Probably missed something obvious EDIT: Spelling DomDiDiDomDom...
Hertford Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.02 10:27:00 - [150] T2 Production should be limited by the supply of available materials and components, not by the number of BPO's/BPC's.
booh	Posted - 2006.12.02 11:33:00 - [151] Without keeping T2 elite this game looses half of quality. You need a lot of skilling to be able to use T2 stuff, specially with turret guns, that have a skill tree. If you get T2 stuff cheap, everyone will use it and then it's same as everyone would use T1 - you'll have no difference between players. One of the charms in EVE is that it hurts you when you loose stuff, just like RL. You have to work for your fun. And just like in RL it's unfair that some people have easy money. I put much effort in this game and this is what keeps me playing when I'm bored and unmotivated. If EVE would be like WOW, where you don't loose much when killed, I'd quit this game long time ago. Yes, I have T2 BPOs. I had them one year and a half before they became big ISK makers, before that I barely sold it with very low profit. They've been profitable for last 6 months. And T2 doesn't mean only source of wealth. I know people that have 10 times more money than me without owning T2 BPOs.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.12.02 12:34:00 - [152] yeah basically, as long as i dont have one, reseed, when i have one, dont reseed if that system some consider so unfair is so bad, then why most of those people started an agent in the first place? heck i hope i get one one day!! ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:05:00 - [153] Originally by: Busenlilly Edited by: Busenlilly on 30/11/2006 09:54:36 Didnt they actually say somewhere that they are going to remove all already owned RPs and start over with Revelations? So newer players do have a chance to win a BPO? I heard about serveral people that were kinda upset because of that. Yeah, a tad upset. I would leave eve the same day. Doing research for 2 years now, hoping patch after patch that R&D gets fixed and then seing rp's reset.
Fren Mallow Gallente Bluestar Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.02 14:44:00 - [154] Edited by: Fren Mallow on 02/12/2006 14:45:02 Originally by: booh Without keeping T2 elite this game looses half of quality. What for a quality?! You mean a thick line, which separates those with a unlimited T2-BPO from those with no such BP?! Again: MAKE T2 ITEMS rare - but DON'T put the bootleneck in form of UNLIMITED BPO's for said items in the hands of an elite of PLAYERS, cause this sucks for all other players!!! Originally by: booh You need a lot of skilling to be able to use T2 stuff, specially with turret guns, that have a skill tree. If you get T2 stuff cheap, everyone will use it and then it's same as everyone would use T1 - you'll have no difference between players. YOU simply can'T read, what MANY Players allready mentioned, over and over and over again!! Nobody said ANYTHING about, that T2 shouldn't be RARE.. its a fine concept! But don't put the supply of those rare items in the hands of an elite of players by giving them unlimited BP's!!! Make the lotto run forever, so everybody has the chance to get his hands on a rare restricted BPC!!! What would be the drawback, please?!?! Originally by: booh One of the charms in EVE is that it hurts you when you loose stuff, just like RL. You have to work for your fun. And just like in RL it's unfair that some people have easy money. /signed. But why do you want to create an elite of players?!?! Originally by: booh I put much effort in this game and this is what keeps me playing when I'm bored and unmotivated. If EVE would be like WOW, where you don't loose much when killed, I'd quit this game long time ago. Yuo just can't read creafully.. Originally by: booh Yes, I have T2 BPOs. I had them one year and a half before they became big ISK makers, before that I barely sold it with very low profit. They've been profitable for last 6 months. And T2 doesn't mean only source of wealth. I know people that have 10 times more money than me without owning T2 BPOs. Fine.. But then they hadn't made their isk by OWNING a isk printing machine.. did they?! Cheers The point stand: don't put the supplement of rare items in the hands of players, by giving them BPO's and having the idea to restrict the supplement of said items by the number of BPO's. Give out restricted rund BPC's, so even a 1month old char has the chance to win something in future.. Please CCP.
Swedde Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.02 15:10:00 - [155] Originally by: Ishmael Hansen Originally by: Busenlilly Edited by: Busenlilly on 30/11/2006 09:54:36 Didnt they actually say somewhere that they are going to remove all already owned RPs and start over with Revelations? So newer players do have a chance to win a BPO? I heard about serveral people that were kinda upset because of that. Yeah, a tad upset. I would leave eve the same day. Doing research for 2 years now, hoping patch after patch that R&D gets fixed and then seing rp's reset. Yeah that wouldn't work.. RPs need to used for something.. reset would just upset a lot of people. In essence I think invention sounds like a good concept and it need some time to mature. Maybe give people the opportunity to trade RP for isk between them also. I still think as my above post that the first (and biggest) mistake was to issue T2 items as BPOs and not as BPCs, and if removed fairly compensate players for losing their BPOs. DomDiDiDomDom...
booh	Posted - 2006.12.02 17:44:00 - [156] Reply to Fren Mallow. I see your point. But tell me what a one month player can do with a T2 BPC? Sell it to one that has too much ISK so he can make more out of it? He can do that now with RP and sell datacores and he doesn't need building skills for that. Why should someone train industry for a limited BPC and then wait 4 months till he gets another one so he can make use of building skills again for a little money. Even in your wildest dreams you can't expect BPCs poping out from agents to your assets every 2 weeks. That above mentioned n00b player can just run invention with the skills he used for RD agents and get T2 BPCs. Now he has two sources of money, datacores + invention. Elite players are a must, you can't have progress without a goal. Well 70% of T2 BPOs are not ISK printing machines, they are pretty useless. The rest is comparable to people that have exclusive access to 10/10 complexes, getting 2b+ per day out of it. Nobody whines about that... And one month old chars have the chance of winning BPOs on lottery as long as they have RD agents. And one last thing. New players with much ISK get bored very easily. I've seen it. I gave a lot of money to players that were new in the game. They had all they needed, didn't needed to work for it. Once they came to the point where they would need to make money themselves, they got bored and quit. I call it the "Paris Hilton" sindrome. Same with accounts bought on ebay. New players jump right into battleships and HACs, not a good idea, they get bored even faster. Not saying anything about this anymore. -------------- The only mistake CCP made is that they haven't seeded more BPOs with the growing playerbase. They waited to long with it. This way those that already have the BPOs made huge amount of ISK and are prepared to buy more BPOs. But hey, thats life. If they would have done it a year ago, ISK would be spread a bit more and the profits wouldn't be as huge as they are atm. Over and out.
BurnHard	Posted - 2006.12.02 17:45:00 - [157] ....and so in conclusion....what, if anything, is going to be seeded and when?
Father Weebles Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2006.12.02 18:03:00 - [158] 425mm IIs going for 22mil in jita "Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control."
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.02 18:05:00 - [159] Originally by: booh The rest is comparable to people that have exclusive access to 10/10 complexes, getting 2b+ per day out of it. Nobody whines about that... Because they a) have to spend 1-2 hours playtime each day for that and b) have to defend it. You also can make compareable money by 0.0 mining and selling the mins in the hub system. But it involves risks and effort.
Hayah Theos	Posted - 2006.12.02 19:23:00 - [160] Edited by: Hayah Theos on 02/12/2006 19:34:40 Edited by: Hayah Theos on 02/12/2006 19:26:36 Mr. booh, LOL!! Everytime I read your posts, I have to laugh because you are so clearly an example of the problem with the T2 CARTEL Hegemony! OK Fellow Peasants! Let's review Mr. booh's comments. let's read between the lines. "Without keeping T2 elite this game looses half of quality." YEAH, I BET! YOUR HALF? LOL! "One of the charms in EVE is that it hurts you when you lose stuff, just like RL. You have to work for your fun." YEAH, AND WHEN YOU CAN JUST REBUILD YOUR T2 SHIP AT MATERIAL COST VS THE CARTEL PRICE, YOU HURT JUST LIKE THE REST OF US PEASANTS, RIGHT? LOL! "And just like in RL it's unfair that some people have easy money." SO YOU ADMIT THAT BEING GIVEN THE GOOSE THAT LAYS THE GOLDEN EGG BY CCP HAS PROVIDED YOU AN OUTRAGEOUSLY UNBALANCED SOURCE OF ISK. LOL! "I put much effort in this game and this is what keeps me playing when I'm bored and unmotivated." YEAH, I GUESS IT IS HARD TO STAY ENTERTAINED WHEN YOU'RE KING. I WONDER WHAT THE PEASANTS DO FOR ENTERTAINMENT? LOL! "But tell me what a one month player can do with a T2 BPC? Sell it to one that has too much ISK so he can make more out of it?" GUESS YOU DESCRIBED YOURSELF PRETTY WELL THERE T2 KING. LOL! "Elite players are a must, you can't have progress without a goal." SO WHAT'S YOUR GOAL T2 KING? NOW THAT YOU OWN THE GAME? LOL! "Well 70% of T2 BPOs are not ISK printing machines, they are pretty useless. The rest is comparable to people that have exclusive access to 10/10 complexes, getting 2b+ per day out of it. Nobody whines about that..." YES, AND I WONDER HOW MANY OF THOSE COMPLEXES ARE CONTROLLED BY THE LIKES OF ASCN, BOB, CVS, OR RA? IN OTHER WORDS BY OTHER T2 BPO CARTEL MEMBERS? 2 BILLION ISK A DAY EH? LOL! "And one month old chars have the chance of winning BPOs on lottery as long as they have RD agents." WHICH BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION WILL BE PURCHASED BY YOU OR SOME OTHER CARTEL MEMBER TO MAINTAIN YOUR ROYAL STATUS. LOL! AND FINALLY, THE FUNNIEST THING YOU SAID YET!! "And one last thing. New players with much ISK get bored very easily. I've seen it. I gave a lot of money to players that were new in the game. They had all they needed, didn't needed to work for it. Once they came to the point where they would need to make money themselves, they got bored and quit. I call it the "Paris Hilton" sindrome. Same with accounts bought on ebay. New players jump right into battleships and HACs, not a good idea, they get bored even faster." YES! IT REALLY IS HARD TO GET GOOD HELP THESE DAYS, ISN'T IT? I MEAN WHEN YOU CAN AFFORD TO BUY THEIR ACCOUNTS ON E-BAY AND OUTFIT THESE PEASANTS IN THE LATEST BSs, HACs, AND T2 MODS, THE LEAST THEY COULD DO IS SHOW A LITTLE 'ESPRIT DE CORP'. LOL! "The only mistake CCP made is that they haven't seeded more BPOs with the growing playerbase. They waited to long with it. This way those that already have the BPOs made huge amount of ISK and are prepared to buy more BPOs. But hey, thats life." NO, THAT'S A BAD GAME DESIGN THAT CAN AND SHOULD BE CORRECTED. LOL! "If they would have done it a year ago, ISK would be spread a bit more and the profits wouldn't be as huge as they are atm." AND MAYBE IF YOU JUST PAID FOR A ROUND OF CAKE FOR EVERYONE, THEY MIGHT QUIT COMPLAINING? LOL!
Fren Mallow Gallente Bluestar Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.02 19:41:00 - [161] @booh Originally by: booh But tell me what a one month player can do with a T2 BPC? Sell it to one that has too much ISK so he can make more out of it? He can do that now with RP and sell datacores and he doesn't need building skills for that. Are you implying, that for winning a T2-BPO now, it is a must to have sufficient industry-skills in production?! I don't think, that's applicable for at least 50% of the T2-BPO-Lottery fanboys here.. do you? Originally by: booh Why should someone train industry for a limited BPC and then wait 4 months till he gets another one so he can make use of building skills again for a little money. Even in your wildest dreams you can't expect BPCs poping out from agents to your assets every 2 weeks. I really wonder if you ever had produced anything.. wanna know something?.. I have no access to T1 Cruiser and above BPO's.. with what, do you think, I build Brutixes at competitive prices, eh?! ...right, with BPC's my friend. So, I really can't see a point here. Originally by: booh That above mentioned n00b player can just run invention with the skills he used for RD agents and get T2 BPCs. Now he has two sources of money, datacores + invention. All players, who at the moment waste their RP's on invention, instead of waiting for a T2-BPO are false winded, if ya ask me ;) Those T2-BPO-Lotto is destructive to invention, actually.. don't know how that evolves in future naturally. But BPC's would help a lot, by making the people used to the invention-chain, instead of this lotto-system with only a few luckies. Originally by: booh Elite players are a must, you can't have progress without a goal. Erm... do you mix up "Self-Made-Elite" with "Elite-by-chance" here? And where's this progress you speak of, I would also like to know? The goal - the jackpot BPO - is clear, but I can't see where this creates progress or even creates a "Self-Made-Elite"!? And another point about progress: I can pvp in combat, I can pvp in market, I can pvp in T1 production.. but I can't pvp in T2 production.. thats a major flaw. With BPC's given out, there would a glimpse of a chance, that everyone, who wants to pvp in T2 production can try. This would be progress, if ya ask me. Originally by: booh Well 70% of T2 BPOs are not ISK printing machines, they are pretty useless. The rest is comparable to people that have exclusive access to 10/10 complexes, getting 2b+ per day out of it. Nobody whines about that... Start a thread about that and bring arguments to adjust the mechanics for a better game-experience for all of us. I'm argumenting here for changing the lottery-system as it is.. Originally by: booh And one month old chars have the chance of winning BPOs on lottery as long as they have RD agents. Hm.. they merely will sell those BPO's, not?! Who will buy them, most of the time? Do you really think, that the rare isk-printing machines should get in the hands of a few allready wealthy? What would be the problem, when those Lottery would spit out BPC's instead? I'm sure, the wealth would be spread more.. The rareness of the items wouldn't get touched by this, as the absolute numbers of items is fixed.. We even would have a new pvp-arena.. T2 production, based on BPC's anybody can sell and MOST IMPORTANT: buy. Originally by: booh And one last thing. New players with much ISK get bored very easily. I've seen it. I gave a lot of money to players that were new in the game. They had all they needed, didn't needed to work for it. Once they came to the point where they would need to make money themselves, they got bored and quit. I call it the "Paris Hilton" sindrome. Same with accounts bought on ebay. New players jump right into battleships and HACs, not a good idea, they get bored even faster. Ah yes.. and if a 1-month old noob wins a BPO, that will be better than if he wins a BPC. Clear. You made your point ;) Cheers
Keshi Linegod Amarr Pod Squad Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.02 20:18:00 - [162] Originally by: Hertford T2 Production should be limited by the supply of available materials and components, not by the number of BPO's/BPC's. /signed It is going to have to move in this dirrection if the devs ever want T2 to become the new T1 when T3 comes out. -------------------------------------------------- Loyal servant of the Amarr empire. Why the hell an't my picture showing up.......
Hayah Theos	Posted - 2006.12.02 21:21:00 - [163] BUMP
Tuco Santeriia	Posted - 2006.12.03 04:46:00 - [164] Why not eliminate Tech 2 BPOs altogether? Keep the lottery as-is, but convert ALL Tech 2 BPOs to high-run BPCs - say 100 runs for ships, 2000 for modules, and 5000 for ammo. This way you make R&D more dynamic, you get a better chance for diversity in the market, and you incorporate more players into the research game. It seems like it's the permanent nature of the BPOs that is the major problem with the system, so just make everything temporary.
mrevilbe	Posted - 2006.12.03 05:44:00 - [165] personally i think tech 2 is just a load of crap, i would be happy if all tech 2 bpos were made into tech 1 and all these ...so called elite players can start equiping faction stuff ...but oh wait they wont, because its actaully expensive :P
Fren Mallow Gallente Bluestar Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.03 11:57:00 - [166] waits for the T2-Fanboys and their alt's to walk in and make comments, without ANY arguments Question ALLREADY stands: What would be the drawback of having the lottery giving out restricted BP's instead of BPO's? No Fanboy actually has given us an argument till now.. only their whining: I want a BPO, period. That's just laughable. (I'm naturally aware, that the earned RP's in their numbers per player should be refelcted somehow by this and also that the restriction shouldn't be only by Copies... it's just the main idea behind this.. but what's the main concern about it?!) --------------------------------------------- Never fix a running system! http://www.bluestar-enterprises.de.vu
Hertford Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.03 12:52:00 - [167] Originally by: Fren Mallow Question ALLREADY stands: What would be the drawback of having the lottery giving out restricted BP's instead of BPO's? Exacerbating the current situation where total number of production runs per unit of time is limited by blueprints.
d026 Herrscher der Zeit	Posted - 2006.12.03 12:57:00 - [168] most of the tII items are not rare (exept probably for some tIi ships). i never had a problem to find my tII guns and tII moods, why shouldnt this apply for tII ships aswell i wonder..?
MerloveForsakenOne	Posted - 2006.12.03 13:07:00 - [169] Edited by: MerloveForsakenOne on 03/12/2006 13:09:26 Consider the time and money spent on EVE>> chances of receving a T2 BPO well started research agents when they first came out and hMMMMM 3 years 3months and what to show for it SQUAT So lottery hmmm well All one can hope is my name is in many many thousands of times..
MerloveForsakenOne	Posted - 2006.12.03 13:08:00 - [170] Consider the time and money spent on EVE>> chances of receving a T2 BPO well started research agents when they first came out and hMMMMM 3 years 3months and what to show for it SQUAT So lottery hmmm well All one can hope is my name is in many many thousands of times..
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.12.03 13:13:00 - [171] @booh lol, can you be more obvious??
Gloria Stitz	Posted - 2006.12.03 13:21:00 - [172] I like the logic behind issuing new BPOs. Larger population, more bpos seeded - 100% common sense. Now, can we apply the same logic to research slots? Please ------------- 'Don't try to learn Eve all at once, otherwise your brain will explode' - Albert Einstein ------------
The Hardman Amarr Sausage Commandos	Posted - 2006.12.03 13:48:00 - [173] But thanks to player built stuff, research slots have increased (I thought).
Makhan	Posted - 2006.12.03 15:10:00 - [174] Edited by: Makhan on 03/12/2006 15:10:08 Originally by: The Hardman But thanks to player built stuff, research slots have increased (I thought). Not everybody has access to POSes, and the wait time for material research is still ridiculous. But yeah keep the lottery as is.
Mordanian Ryff	Posted - 2006.12.04 22:23:00 - [175] How about this as a concept for improving not only research as a skill, but BP seeding in general: Set a RP basepoint on each BPO - similar to the scale of the LP offers. Give everyone who is eligible for a specific BPO a raffle ticket for each X RP's above the basepoint, then randomly select winners. If the winner declines the BPO, it will go to another from the pool. If the winner accepts the BPO, he trades ALL RP's for that agent for the BPO. This would do two things: first, reduce the chances of people getting BPO's in consecutive lotteries (thus spreading the wealth), still incorporate a heavy element of chance, and encourage people to actually run research missions to get RP's. The biggest problem I see with the lottery-based system currently in effect is that you don't have to actually run any missions or expend any resources to acquire RP's and thus a BPO. This is diametrically not only to reality but to the LP system where those who devote the hours and time to running missions can eventually score that Navy Raven or Megathron.
DeODokktor Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2006.12.05 01:44:00 - [176] Originally by: Popsikle Ive been around for all of tech2, and with almost 1 million RP on my toons Ive yet to get an offer.... I dont see why now that the new contract system is in place the t2's cant be auctioned off for RP. It gives those of us who got ****** a higher chance of getting a bpo then those that already have them (assuming the same realitive RP/day) but those that actually worked for thier agents an even better chance. Whats the downside to that? Because some of us would turn 8 accounts into 32 accounts earning 67,000+ rp/day (or 200,000+ if in starship).. so lets see.. you have been here for a few years and in 5 days I could match your RP .. I must admit, I do like the idea of it.
Dra0cht	Posted - 2006.12.05 02:32:00 - [177] Originally by: Hayah Theos Several excellent rants... Yes, you tore the T2 monopolists to shreds, well said sir Comon CCP, stick to your guns, break the cartel, never mind all the nonsence and dribble the monopolists and their apologists spew out, its time for a re-balancing of EVE, this is NOT RL, and just like RL there is no such thing as the fictional 'free-market'. You won't get any flak or negative feedback from 99% of the EVE playerbase, however you will get much more happy and T2 using players. The only people who do deserve a wee bit of sympathy are those ordinary joe's who got ripped off by the T2 cartel, never mind they will soon get over it
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2006.12.05 06:50:00 - [178] Originally by: Dra0cht Originally by: Hayah Theos Several excellent rants... Yes, you tore the T2 monopolists to shreds, well said sir Comon CCP, stick to your guns, break the cartel, never mind all the nonsence and dribble the monopolists and their apologists spew out, its time for a re-balancing of EVE, this is NOT RL, and just like RL there is no such thing as the fictional 'free-market'. You won't get any flak or negative feedback from 99% of the EVE playerbase, however you will get much more happy and T2 using players. The only people who do deserve a wee bit of sympathy are those ordinary joe's who got ripped off by the T2 cartel, never mind they will soon get over it Umm, aren't you an anti-monopolist and anti-lottery apologist? Label-based arguments 4tw!
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.12.05 08:56:00 - [179] [german voice] i kreated a monssster! ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.12.05 09:56:00 - [180] Originally by: Hayah Theos Stuff in caps, LOL! Why do you write all in caps, and always put a LOL! after each sentence? It makes you look childish, and turn your arguments into useless rabble. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2006.12.05 10:28:00 - [181] Originally by: Father Weebles 425mm IIs going for 22mil in jita I bought 100 @ 8mil when the Rokh was announced... Time to unload probably. Originally by: "Cy4n1d3" You can't PVP with 4 mids.
Vanesa Garcia Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.12.05 10:40:00 - [182] Eve is elite game which run by cartels. Always been and always will be. Don't like? Go play WoW and kiss the goblin a$$. Some of you complain that you don't have t2 BPO or can't afford T2 equipment, but nobody feel sorry for you, so STFU. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ \| There are people kinda "living" and people kinda "dead" \| -----------------------------------------------------
Zirator Times of Ancar THE R0NIN	Posted - 2006.12.05 11:31:00 - [183] When can we expect Hammer to release his T2 blog?
Shin Ra BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2006.12.05 12:18:00 - [184] Ooh good, I missed out on 3 bpo offers over the summer cause i was on holiday.
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2006.12.05 12:44:00 - [185] Originally by: Shin Ra Ooh good, I missed out on 3 bpo offers over the summer cause i was on holiday. Ssh! This would be the point where Mr. Murphy takes notice and gives you no BPOs for Christmas.
NIkis	Posted - 2006.12.05 13:46:00 - [186] The lottery is certainly screwed so it needs to be changed I could've trained up some r&d agents but never bothered to, because chance to get a BPO nowadays (with current system) is slim to none Also if you look from the other side of the problem .. a player wants to be a builder, why not have his chance to build T2 stuff too ? The freedom of choice is impaired here if he cannot get T2 BPOs at some point because lottery is empty / others have monopoly on production. So ... first step would be a) to stop seeding isk-printing machines, and instead seed limited-run BPCs (not gimped by resource or time cost as the invention does at the moment) or b) seed them regularly (when an agent is depleted, reseed him). That in the end (given time) would be equivalent to seeding them to NPC market, but with a bit more involvement of players r&d-wise. Think devs are scared to reply here ? :)
Lord WarATron Amarr Vanguard Frontiers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.05 13:50:00 - [187] Originally by: NIkis Think devs are scared to reply here ? :) I think the Devs have too much brains than to reply here. Wait for Hammers blogs to clarify the position. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Mysterious Stranger Caldari Momentum.	Posted - 2006.12.05 13:50:00 - [188] Originally by: NIkis The lottery is certainly screwed so it needs to be changed I could've trained up some r&d agents but never bothered to, because chance to get a BPO nowadays (with current system) is slim to none Also if you look from the other side of the problem .. a player wants to be a builder, why not have his chance to build T2 stuff too ? The freedom of choice is impaired here if he cannot get T2 BPOs at some point because lottery is empty / others have monopoly on production. So ... first step would be a) to stop seeding isk-printing machines, and instead seed limited-run BPCs (not gimped by resource or time cost as the invention does at the moment) or b) seed them regularly (when an agent is depleted, reseed him). That in the end (given time) would be equivalent to seeding them to NPC market, but with a bit more involvement of players r&d-wise. Think devs are scared to reply here ? :) Invention is basically what you have already described. And you use RP's from agents to buy the datacores to conduct the research. It's probably the fairest system to be introduced at this time as it offers a chance for players to get involved in T2 development in a fair way based on the existing game mechanics and rules. Originally by: Sharkbait please for the love of god read the dam stickies
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.05 15:24:00 - [189] Originally by: CCP Hammer I've been meaning to write a big blog about all of this stuff but with the patch coming out everything has been so hectic I haven't made the time. We are going to seed more tech 2 stuff to the lottery, heck maybe more of EVERYTHING that's been will be in there. Seeing as how the number of pilots researching and using that stuff has tripled since the lottery started it seems like we could use some more blueprint originals out there. Anyway, looks for a big blog from me Soon TM. Any updates about the blog?
Shin Ra BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2006.12.05 16:08:00 - [190] I think they will post blogs here from now on.
Fren Mallow Gallente Bluestar Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.05 16:24:00 - [191] Edited by: Fren Mallow on 05/12/2006 16:45:57 Originally by: Vanesa Garcia Eve is elite game which run by cartels. Always been and always will be. Erm.. What is good on that, if you're right? Olygopolies, Cartells, Monopolies are in 99% of the cases a bad thing for the majority.. as the holders of those constructions earn way more for their "product" as it would be worth in a (real) competitor scenario. However.. you brought no arguments, just the ususal "we're affraid of a change".. which implies you're a member of one of those constructions. Originally by: Vanesa Garcia Don't like? Go play WoW and kiss the goblin a$$. Some of you complain that you don't have t2 BPO or can't afford T2 equipment, but nobody feel sorry for you, so STFU. And this is even worse.. it's just plain stupid to post such comments, cause they make you look like a fool, who's only argument is a rant (and possibly some arguments told by a fist). Cheers .
Shin Ra BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2006.12.05 16:40:00 - [192] Well they haven't been seeded yet after this new patch Explanation CCP ?
Ina Cyno	Posted - 2006.12.05 16:47:00 - [193] Originally by: Shin Ra Well they haven't been seeded yet after this new patch Explanation CCP ? The explanation is they don't care. Every week the number of subscribers is going up, which can only mean everyone is happy. Why should they care if a few people are unhappy like us with the current t2 situation, most subscribers aren't even aware that there are any problems. Vocal minority and all that.
Malena Perpetual Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.05 16:52:00 - [194] my guess is that CCP is going to wait and see just how invention pans out. We all know that the theory behind something something is one thing, but the implementation is another entirely.
Krysalis Sal Betesta	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:10:00 - [195] Awww.. I also was looking "sooo" forward for this.. alas checked them all & nada.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:12:00 - [196] Edited by: Aramendel on 05/12/2006 17:12:08 Originally by: Malena my guess is that CCP is going to wait and see just how invention pans out. We all know that the theory behind something something is one thing, but the implementation is another entirely. Very unlikey, considering pretty much everyone who has seen this thread & has RPs will stay the HELL away from invention till they have seeded the new t2 BPOs. Most likely all the business with the post kali patch and issues has prolly delayed that for a week or two. Hammer hasn't posted his blog about it either yet.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:14:00 - [197] had a Cerb bpo this morning!! Then i woke up and realized it was a dream NADA! damn R&D agents, they are as inefficient as the R&D in my company :p at least those are realistic ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:21:00 - [198] laughs Oh, the irony of rabbling about a lack of instant gratification (i.e. prints seeded today) from the lottery system.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:25:00 - [199] Quite frankly, I can't see the monopolies breaking with a re-seed. Average player will get a bpo, average player will rejoice, advertise a bid, and the folks who got blindingly rich off of their current tech II bpos will buy 'em up at a rediculous price. And believe it or not, this is a good thing...because 'average player' ain't gonna have the means to efficiently produce and distribute tech II ships at a rate that can feed the current demand. So the rich will remain rich...but the overall hope (in my case, anyway) is that with increased production capacity with the new blueprints, tech II ships will become more widely available and probably at a better price. So, yeah, I suppose a re-seed will be good...but to all the haters of current tech II bpo holders, don't delude yourselves into thinking that a re-seed will change the current distribution of wealth one little bit.
T'savong Lah Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:35:00 - [200] Edited by: T''savong Lah on 05/12/2006 17:38:48 If the lottery does work as intended lol then re-seeding the T2 BPOs should help drive the price of T2 goods down. Assuming that the influx of all the new bpos will drive component prices up, the cost of manufacturing these goods will obviously increase, except in cases where a corporation has a network that provides them with all the components in-house [ie. they produce everything themselves from start to finish]. Although the cost of these goods is going to rise, with the release of all the new BPs, supply of T2 mods such as HACs will increase. Assuming that some portion of the HAC BPOs remain out of the hands of the current T2 kingpins, the extra supply should help ease some of the demand for the uber expensive HACs such as Vagabonds and Cerbs [economics 101 - supply goes up, demand goes down, price follows demand]. Since everybody will want to sell their product, price slashing should ensue, and thus we have cheaper T2 goods. As Garrack said though, the current T2 BP holders will want to buy these new BPOs at ridiculously high prices in order to maintain dominance in the T2 market. So, in order to effectively break the monopoly, new players in the T2 market have to be introduced - the recipients of the new BPs have to produce them, and introduce competition to the current T2 holders.
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:44:00 - [201] Originally by: T'savong Lah ... with the release of all the new BPs, supply of T2 mods such as HACs will increase. Assuming that some portion of the HAC BPOs remain out of the hands of the current T2 kingpins, the extra supply should help ease some of the demand for the uber expensive HACs such as Vagabonds and Cerbs [economics 101 - supply goes up, demand goes down, price follows demand]. I wouldn't expect HAC prices to budge too much. Imo, there's a lot of demand that's going to have to be soaked up before prices drop (inow, people who are now using Stabbers/Nanophoons/Whatever instead of Vagas, who will switch to purchasing Vagas long before the price begins to approach "cheap"). The real result will probably come of whether or not HAC BPO owners spend the war chests on a successful price-fixing campaign or focus on acquiring addition prints (either HAC or otherwise). There's arguments for either, but who knows - HAC prints might not even be reseeded.
Genericforumalt Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2006.12.05 21:52:00 - [202] CCP, where are the T2 bpo seeds, Your breaking my heeaaarrrtTTtttt.
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.12.05 22:19:00 - [203] If I get a decent BPO Im not selling it for any price. I doubt Im alone. I think mot players with a few years under their belt will do the same. Even if I just sell copies and produce very few actual ships Im keep the original. Of course its hard to imagine Ill actually win one, but Im hoping. Wherever you went - here you are.
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2006.12.05 23:05:00 - [204] As the above poster I wouldn't part with my t2 bpo on principal. But anyway I am pretty disappointed by this, but I'm sure CCP has some reason for it. Even if it wasn't very nice of them to go back on their word without giving us the reasons.
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.12.05 23:20:00 - [205] Originally by: Martinez 5. FOR THE PEOPLE THAT SAY T2 MAKERS GET FREE MONEY, YOU ARE IDIOTS IF YOU THINK THAT. i would say 75% of t2 bpos make little to no profit. yes there are some bpos out there that make huge profit, a few hacs and a few mods. i know that the Damnation, Propator, and Purifier make NO money. the time and effort it takes to make them just makes them not worth producing. I'll take all those "unprofitable" T2 BPOs off your hands. I mean, why would you want them if they're so useless? Just escrow them to me, please.
Edison Frisk Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.06 01:15:00 - [206] I would imagine the delay is because of the recent patch and server issues, I would rather them work on that than seed more BPO's tbh, I can wait a 'little' longer
Edison Frisk Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.06 01:15:00 - [207] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Martinez 5. FOR THE PEOPLE THAT SAY T2 MAKERS GET FREE MONEY, YOU ARE IDIOTS IF YOU THINK THAT. i would say 75% of t2 bpos make little to no profit. yes there are some bpos out there that make huge profit, a few hacs and a few mods. i know that the Damnation, Propator, and Purifier make NO money. the time and effort it takes to make them just makes them not worth producing. I'll take all those "unprofitable" T2 BPOs off your hands. I mean, why would you want them if they're so useless? Just escrow them to me, please.
Lil Belle	Posted - 2006.12.06 01:58:00 - [208] When are these new bpos gonna be seeded?
Sessho Seki	Posted - 2006.12.06 02:06:00 - [209] Originally by: Lil Belle When are these new bpos gonna be seeded? Soon ™
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2006.12.06 02:09:00 - [210] Originally by: Lil Belle When are these new bpos gonna be seeded? Probably tomorrow, I recall something like this happening before actually.
Ray McCormack BIG	Posted - 2006.12.06 02:43:00 - [211] I think we may see Hammer's DevBlog about it before it's actually one. \| How To Afford A Tech II BPO \| the all mighty BIG industrial corp from hell with a slong the size of a walrus.
Shin Ra BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2006.12.06 12:13:00 - [212] Is it seeded now?
Celeste Coeval	Posted - 2006.12.06 12:16:00 - [213] look at all the greedy industrialists crooning away. "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2006.12.06 12:37:00 - [214] Originally by: Shin Ra Is it seeded now? Sadly no, and I'm starting to get very annoyed.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.06 12:46:00 - [215] It used to take a few days to actually reach the agent info iirc. I had an offer from an agent that didn't have any predictable patents listed yet. If I only hadn't been a minute too late for claiming it ... --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Imperil Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.06 13:32:00 - [216] Originally by: Tachy It used to take a few days to actually reach the agent info iirc. I had an offer from an agent that didn't have any predictable patents listed yet. If I only hadn't been a minute too late for claiming it ... When did you get the offer and what offer did you get? Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW!
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:33:00 - [217] Originally by: Celeste Coeval look at all the greedy industrialists crooning away. hey dont turn down the non-greedy-non-industrial that want to join the club SEED ME DADDY ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Krysalis Sal Betesta	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:36:00 - [218] Originally by: Splagada Originally by: Celeste Coeval look at all the greedy industrialists crooning away. hey dont turn down the non-greedy-non-industrial that want to join the club SEED ME DADDY
Cerwyn Taraman Minmatar Phoenix Tech Industries	Posted - 2006.12.06 15:50:00 - [219] Originally by: Oveur I'd expect to see the seeds come in Tuesday at least, perhaps earlier. /me checks the calendar. Any update on the ETA of these Oveur?
Lena Carebear	Posted - 2006.12.06 16:28:00 - [220] Edited by: Lena Carebear on 06/12/2006 16:29:10 its realy sad that the BPO's not already in the Labors ......... but that none response comes from the DEV's is realy POOR ....... like the whole information Policity in the last Weeks . PEASE DO NOT LET US IN THE DARK ...... We all spend the Money you Devs get from CCP every month
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2006.12.06 16:44:00 - [221] Originally by: Lena Carebear Edited by: Lena Carebear on 06/12/2006 16:29:10 its realy sad that the BPO's not already in the Labors ......... but that none response comes from the DEV's is realy POOR ....... like the whole information Policity in the last Weeks . PEASE DO NOT LET US IN THE DARK ...... We all spend the Money you Devs get from CCP every month Yes!! Now dance for me Oveur - you amuse me, oaf!
Caudex Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.06 17:47:00 - [222] Well usually they don't post unless they have any definate information, so it must be something like that. Although I can't imagine any debate on seeding T2 bpos to last more then 30 seconds. At any rate they could at least post telling us that they are busy from the patchday fallout or something and to expect them in sometime soon.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:04:00 - [223] Originally by: Imperil Originally by: Tachy It used to take a few days to actually reach the agent info iirc. I had an offer from an agent that didn't have any predictable patents listed yet. If I only hadn't been a minute too late for claiming it ... When did you get the offer and what offer did you get? That might have been about 1.5 years ago? Second orthird wave of BPOs. I would have gotten one of the explosive shield hardeners. If you do not claim the BPO within 5 days or a week, it goes back into the lottery, and I missed it by a minute. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Loyal Servant Caldari Cornhole Inc. The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:14:00 - [224] I would like to know when/if they are going to seed as well. I read into it like it was going to happen yesterday. So, what is up? It is a day later with no answer about the lottery. Click the button already please. Cornhole, Inc. - Cornholeing eve one system at a time. Member, The Sudden Death Squad [TSDS]
Jet Collins Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2006.12.06 19:00:00 - [225] Edited by: Jet Collins on 06/12/2006 19:00:11 I'm dieing to know!!!! WHATS THE STATUS OF THE NEW T2 BPO'S BEING SEEDED!!!!!!! Thanks for the reponce... PLEASE!!!!! Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!! Contact me in game for deatails about the corp. Mostly a PvE corp, with Jump clones avaiale in Empire and 0.0.
WhiskeyDP The Druids	Posted - 2006.12.06 19:07:00 - [226] i am sure most of the community are thrilled about it coming more bpo's. wonder what 85% of the tech2 bpo owners that have bpo's like purifier, nemesis and the third worthless bomber is called do they even make 1-2m profit per day beteween their bpo's, or all the t2 ammo owners or even most of the command ship owners. most of them `make what per day? 5-10m per ship? just seed bpo's on market at a very, very high price, like 100b for hac's. ccp should have changed the prices on t1 bpo's long time ago imo. they are all way too cheap. capitals alone should have costed atleast 10b and so on. as it is now there is and have been for a very long time way too much isk in this game and its ruining the game. putting in even more free bpo's will just ruin it even more. put the bpo's on either market(at a very high price) or even auction's(and plz dont flood the market at once if so). what this game needs is to offload a lot of the isk that is ingame and disallow all the GTC trades and **** that destroying this game ================== === eve is not all about isk, its about enjoying the game. lots of iskies is not the same as enjoying the game
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2006.12.06 19:36:00 - [227] Edited by: Gamer4liff on 06/12/2006 19:36:20 Originally by: WhiskeyDP i am sure most of the community are thrilled about it coming more bpo's. wonder what 85% of the tech2 bpo owners that have bpo's like purifier, nemesis and the third worthless bomber is called do they even make 1-2m profit per day beteween their bpo's, or all the t2 ammo owners or even most of the command ship owners. most of them `make what per day? 5-10m per ship? just seed bpo's on market at a very, very high price, like 100b for hac's. ccp should have changed the prices on t1 bpo's long time ago imo. they are all way too cheap. capitals alone should have costed atleast 10b and so on. as it is now there is and have been for a very long time way too much isk in this game and its ruining the game. putting in even more free bpo's will just ruin it even more. put the bpo's on either market(at a very high price) or even auction's(and plz dont flood the market at once if so). what this game needs is to offload a lot of the isk that is ingame and disallow all the GTC trades and **** that destroying this game No, Just no. I don't pretend to call the lottery "fair" or "work heavy" but this is not the solution. Seeding to the market at any price will make them just another kind of ship. T2 is supposed to be hard to get after all. What we have now is a system that rewards patience and investment, not some mindless grind for isk. Also calling them "free" is a pretty big misnomer, as it takes quite some time to raise the standings to get the high level agents, and quite a lot of skill training to use the maximum agents.
Krysalis Sal Betesta	Posted - 2006.12.06 20:30:00 - [228] Originally by: Gamer4liff Edited by: Gamer4liff on 06/12/2006 19:36:20 Originally by: WhiskeyDP i am sure most of the community are thrilled about it coming more bpo's. wonder what 85% of the tech2 bpo owners that have bpo's like purifier, nemesis and the third worthless bomber is called do they even make 1-2m profit per day beteween their bpo's, or all the t2 ammo owners or even most of the command ship owners. most of them `make what per day? 5-10m per ship? just seed bpo's on market at a very, very high price, like 100b for hac's. ccp should have changed the prices on t1 bpo's long time ago imo. they are all way too cheap. capitals alone should have costed atleast 10b and so on. as it is now there is and have been for a very long time way too much isk in this game and its ruining the game. putting in even more free bpo's will just ruin it even more. put the bpo's on either market(at a very high price) or even auction's(and plz dont flood the market at once if so). what this game needs is to offload a lot of the isk that is ingame and disallow all the GTC trades and **** that destroying this game No, Just no. I don't pretend to call the lottery "fair" or "work heavy" but this is not the solution. Seeding to the market at any price will make them just another kind of ship. T2 is supposed to be hard to get after all. What we have now is a system that rewards patience and investment, not some mindless grind for isk. Also calling them "free" is a pretty big misnomer, as it takes quite some time to raise the standings to get the high level agents, and quite a lot of skill training to use the maximum agents. I agree with Gamer4liff there.. but I do have to say that Whiskey has a point that Tech1 BPO's are way to cheap. IMO they should be worth much more, and even seed them original or not in to the lottery in some way. It would make the race for RP all the more challenging.
Martin Riley	Posted - 2006.12.06 21:56:00 - [229] Well i've been working hard to enter this t2 lottery, my rp/day are really low right now but it is worth a try(just 1 level 3 agent right now, planning to get multiple lvl4 working soon) A solution to this unfair t2 lottery would be removing all t2 bpos from the game (who cares about t2 bpo owners they are rich without deserving it), and fix invention so t2 item prices will be fair and will follow market rules and not monopoly/cartel rules.
VBboy Caldari The Phoenix Rising Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.06 22:03:00 - [230] for the last 8 months i've been doing Reasearch missions with a view to earning tickets for the lottery. I'm waiting for this blog so bad! I thought they were comming in yesterday with the patch?????? Anyone know where this Blog is or when is comming out... VB
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2006.12.06 22:20:00 - [231] Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY Welcome to Out of Context Theatre. Also, please seed some stuff. My corp has plenty of Caldari research agents just frothing with the urge to give us sexy sexy BPOs ;) ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
Genericforumalt Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:57:00 - [232] Hammer, any chance of that blog tonight?
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2006.12.07 11:59:00 - [233] Originally by: Jennie Marlboro Originally by: Ramblin Man Edited by: Ramblin Man on 07/12/2006 11:37:43 Originally by: Zirator I don't think it's a really bad thing the the BPO haven't been seeded yet. What is worse in my opinion is that Hammer stated in this topic that he will post a blog on this subject. But he still hasn't and he hasn't even explained his actions. I know that they are probably buis but CCP and EVE are known for good communication. But it looks like CCP is going Bliz on us. :( Just fyi, unless he snuck one in somewhere, Hammer didn't - Oveur volunteered him. Oveur did volunteer him, but Hammer followed up by promising a "big blog" about the reseeded lottery. imho, invention is a nonstarter till they get that done. No one I know is going to want to trade in their RPs for datacores while there's still the possibility of getting a T2 BPO with them, instead. Ah, my bad. So many forums; so little time.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:15:00 - [234] They need to make Data Interfaces more common if they want people to spend RP on datacores. As of now there are none for sale, no wonder no one will waste their RP for something they can't do. currently data interface is something only alliances can get hold on (0.0 exploration). Owning data interface is like owning SEVERAL t2 bpos if you have agents running.
Caudex Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:54:00 - [235] CCP, this is not something that you can afford to ignore, give us your reasoning please.
Monika Miner	Posted - 2006.12.07 16:49:00 - [236] Reply from CCP is still needed
VBboy Caldari The Phoenix Rising Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.07 17:44:00 - [237] ok this post is like a petition lol...it just gets bigger and bigger! lol you crazy people...lotteries ftw!
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2006.12.07 18:15:00 - [238] Originally by: VBboy ok this post is like a petition lol...it just gets bigger and bigger! lol you crazy people...lotteries ftw! Every thread eventually starts sounding like a petition - pretty sure there's a mathematic law there somewhere.
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.12.07 18:21:00 - [239] Alot of people waiting for the lotto before jumping into invention and then deciding if it was all worthwhile.... Interesting to see that they have NOT been seeding the missing and destroyed BPOs as they claimed/gave the impression they had been doing all along Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!!
WhiskeyDP The Druids	Posted - 2006.12.07 18:23:00 - [240] Edited by: WhiskeyDP on 07/12/2006 18:25:08 Originally by: Ramblin Man Edited by: Ramblin Man on 07/12/2006 11:35:38 No offense WhiskeyDP, but if you seeded T2 BPOs at outrageously high prices, then only those to whom a larger share of player money goes could afford them. Hmm, now who has a lot of money flowing in their direction(s)? Full set of HAC prints 4tw? Tbh, in all seriousness, it would lower the costs, as they'd be able to produce more and there would be limited competition. It wouldn't exactly increase equality between the proletariate and bourgeoisie though. seriously, plx enlighten me how owning more bpo's will lower the cost? i would rather put the bpo's on market at very, very high prices then seed XX amount of bpo's thru agents for free and ruin most of the market to fix a very little part of the t2 market that is messed up coz ppl must have a particular ship(read: hulk, ishtar, cerebrus, vagabond, zealot, demios and maybe manticore? not active anymore so dont know how the market is on ships. turrets: 425 and 1400projs maybe? cap2 ofc and some other modules) putting them on market at a ridiculous(sp?) price would do two things: take away lots of isk from the game and on those ships/modules that there is worth buying them: give more competition to market seeding the agents with all bpo's again would wreck most of the market just to fix a very little part of it instead. that is not a very good solution imo ================== === eve is not all about isk, its about enjoying the game. lots of iskies is not the same as enjoying the game
Drake Mezcal eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.07 21:14:00 - [241] Come on CCP, any response would be appreciated
Makhan	Posted - 2006.12.07 23:14:00 - [242] Originally by: WhiskeyDP seeding the agents with all bpo's again would wreck most of the market just to fix a very little part of it instead. that is not a very good solution imo What on earth are you talking about? It would not wreck the market in the least, it would just give more people the oppertunity to compete in the T2 market. Seeding more BPOs would help alleviate high prices and give more people the ships they need to enjoy the game.
dantes inferno Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2006.12.07 23:16:00 - [243] i wonder when and if this will get done? it would be the easiest way to reduce tech 2 prices as more bpo = more supply = less demand. unless ofc the monopolies in place buy up all the new bpos lol RAM is recruiting
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.12.07 23:27:00 - [244] Edited by: Matori Kar on 07/12/2006 23:26:57 Just put all the T2 BPOs on the market ffs. Leave control of T2 production to material supply where it feking should have been in the first place..also has the added benefit of ENCOURAGING people to get involved in low sec/0.0 moon mining and T2 material transport. Not much point owning all the T2 BPOs if you cant get the materials :) Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!!
dantes inferno Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2006.12.07 23:31:00 - [245] Quote: Just put all the T2 BPOs on the market ffs. Leave control of T2 production to material supply where it feking should have been in the first place..also has the added benefit of ENCOURAGING people to get involved in low sec/0.0 moon mining and T2 material transport. Not much point owning all the T2 BPOs if you cant get the materials :) christ no, then tech 2 would equal tech 1. the idea of needing stuff from 0.0 is already in tech 2 design in the form of that weired red mineral (forget the damn name lol) dont have to much of an affect, hell you could argue that even zyd and mega are supposed to be 0.0 only...but ccp would cave to the high sec players and make what ever material needed available in high sec as well...meaning tech 2 = tech 1 RAM is recruiting
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.12.07 23:34:00 - [246] Originally by: dantes inferno Quote: Just put all the T2 BPOs on the market ffs. Leave control of T2 production to material supply where it feking should have been in the first place..also has the added benefit of ENCOURAGING people to get involved in low sec/0.0 moon mining and T2 material transport. Not much point owning all the T2 BPOs if you cant get the materials :) christ no, then tech 2 would equal tech 1. the idea of needing stuff from 0.0 is already in tech 2 design in the form of that weired red mineral (forget the damn name lol) dont have to much of an affect, hell you could argue that even zyd and mega are supposed to be 0.0 only...but ccp would cave to the high sec players and make what ever material needed available in high sec as well...meaning tech 2 = tech 1 That would totally depend on the supply of T2 materials, which are limited. T1 materials (minerals) can be mined by anyone anywhere (near enough) T2 materials can not.... Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!!
dantes inferno Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2006.12.07 23:37:00 - [247] Quote: That would totally depend on the supply of T2 materials, which are limited. T1 materials (minerals) can be mined by anyone anywhere (near enough) T2 materials can not.... yes but the point im trying to make is that red mineral is supposed to be limeted to 0.0, but its freely availble anywere. zyd and mega is supposed to be 0.0 only..but ccp introduced zyd to low sec..and mega/zyd is available in 1.0 through level 4 missions. if this system is introduced - welcome high sec resident whining about how they cane compete, introduce materials available in high sec. makes tech 2 over available..meaning every one will fit tech 2 making it like tech 1. RAM is recruiting
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.12.07 23:41:00 - [248] Originally by: dantes inferno Quote: That would totally depend on the supply of T2 materials, which are limited. T1 materials (minerals) can be mined by anyone anywhere (near enough) T2 materials can not.... yes but the point im trying to make is that red mineral is supposed to be limeted to 0.0, but its freely availble anywere. zyd and mega is supposed to be 0.0 only..but ccp introduced zyd to low sec..and mega/zyd is available in 1.0 through level 4 missions. if this system is introduced - welcome high sec resident whining about how they cane compete, introduce materials available in high sec. makes tech 2 over available..meaning every one will fit tech 2 making it like tech 1. Can all T2 materials be made from minerals, including the 'red stuff'? No they can not, get it? Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!!
dantes inferno Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2006.12.07 23:43:00 - [249] Quote: Can all T2 materials be made from minerals, including the 'red stuff'? No they can not, get it? ok im baby speech for you you want material only avilable in 0.0 for tech 2 production ccp implement your idea high sec residents moan at this and how they cant compete ccp implement this material in one form or another in high sec over abundance of tech 2. simple enough or do you need a diagram? RAM is recruiting
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.12.07 23:46:00 - [250] Originally by: dantes inferno Quote: Can all T2 materials be made from minerals, including the 'red stuff'? No they can not, get it? ok im baby speech for you you want material only avilable in 0.0 for tech 2 production ccp implement your idea high sec residents moan at this and how they cant compete ccp implement this material in one form or another in high sec over abundance of tech 2. simple enough or do you need a diagram? /bang head against wall /sigh Do you know what materials are needed to build say a HAC? - go look it up, and where those materials come from... CCP only need to seed the market with BPOs the rest is already in the flipping game....just needs people to adjust to new market situation and opportunites, which would hopefully bring alot more people into low sec/0.0 Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!!
Sariboyan	Posted - 2006.12.07 23:49:00 - [251] This is starting to get abit ridiculos. Can they atleast release the DEV blogg so people know what's gonna happen ? Ive got several research agents and i dont want to take out my research points in datacores if they are gonna release more bpo's.
dantes inferno Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2006.12.07 23:52:00 - [252] Quote: CCP only need to seed the market with BPOs the rest is already in the flipping game....just needs people to adjust to new market situation and opportunites, which would hopefully bring alot more people into low sec/0.0 that would only work if material stayed as it is now. but people been as they are will try to get a increase in the materials needed to build hacs and to make them more available in high sec which is the entire point of my comment. and past expiriences show that ccp would cave in to a degree. the current system will work fine if the amount of bpo increase with the playerbase. RAM is recruiting
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.12.07 23:58:00 - [253] Originally by: dantes inferno Quote: CCP only need to seed the market with BPOs the rest is already in the flipping game....just needs people to adjust to new market situation and opportunites, which would hopefully bring alot more people into low sec/0.0 that would only work if material stayed as it is now. but people been as they are will try to get a increase in the materials needed to build hacs and to make them more available in high sec which is the entire point of my comment. and past expiriences show that ccp would cave in to a degree. the current system will work fine if the amount of bpo increase with the playerbase. The present system is dumb though, it gives a few people useless BPOs, a few okish BPOs, most are pretty good BPOs and a few are feking 'I won EVE already thank you very much' buttons. BUT, there is pretty much fek all other people can do about it, park BPO in safe place and print isks. With my idea, the people with BPOs but no materials can at least go out and fight over them... Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!!
Genericforumalt Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2006.12.08 00:06:00 - [254] Originally by: Matori Kar Originally by: dantes inferno Quote: CCP only need to seed the market with BPOs the rest is already in the flipping game....just needs people to adjust to new market situation and opportunites, which would hopefully bring alot more people into low sec/0.0 that would only work if material stayed as it is now. but people been as they are will try to get a increase in the materials needed to build hacs and to make them more available in high sec which is the entire point of my comment. and past expiriences show that ccp would cave in to a degree. the current system will work fine if the amount of bpo increase with the playerbase. The present system is dumb though, it gives a few people useless BPOs, a few okish BPOs, most are pretty good BPOs and a few are feking 'I won EVE already thank you very much' buttons. BUT, there is pretty much fek all other people can do about it, park BPO in safe place and print isks. With my idea, the people with BPOs but no materials can at least go out and fight over them... Even if they did change the system so you could buy T2 bpos, T2 bpos would benefit the richest only, rather than letting middle-class researchers win. alliances would be the only ones who could afford such things. Not to mention what would happen to all the research accounts, or the RP garnered from them. At any rate seeding them to market is an idiotic idea, and you should stop posting.
Lootcatcher	Posted - 2006.12.08 00:09:00 - [255] People train up different skills, the type of skills you train reflect on what you want want out of the game. You wanna use HACs and T2 guns you train gunnery, the people that trained science and industry get rewarded thru the T2 lottery or invention. Too many people whining about the T2 lottery are PVPers that just want cheap ships to go pvp with, they dont care how they are build, how many POSes are needed to make the advanced reactions/minerals. Train ALL the skills needed to build a HAC and THEN come back on this board to whine about the lottery, ill see you in about 4 months.
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.12.08 00:16:00 - [256] Originally by: Genericforumalt Originally by: Matori Kar Originally by: dantes inferno Quote: CCP only need to seed the market with BPOs the rest is already in the flipping game....just needs people to adjust to new market situation and opportunites, which would hopefully bring alot more people into low sec/0.0 that would only work if material stayed as it is now. but people been as they are will try to get a increase in the materials needed to build hacs and to make them more available in high sec which is the entire point of my comment. and past expiriences show that ccp would cave in to a degree. the current system will work fine if the amount of bpo increase with the playerbase. The present system is dumb though, it gives a few people useless BPOs, a few okish BPOs, most are pretty good BPOs and a few are feking 'I won EVE already thank you very much' buttons. BUT, there is pretty much fek all other people can do about it, park BPO in safe place and print isks. With my idea, the people with BPOs but no materials can at least go out and fight over them... Even if they did change the system so you could buy T2 bpos, T2 bpos would benefit the richest only, rather than letting middle-class researchers win. alliances would be the only ones who could afford such things. Not to mention what would happen to all the research accounts, or the RP garnered from them. At any rate seeding them to market is an idiotic idea, and you should stop posting. Yes, you would have to be rich to afford the market BPOs, they should be expensive. The lotto can still hand out free BPOs, and agents can still be used to get Invention materials. I would see the lotto being fazed out once CCP have T3 stuff ready to roll out, and Invention would be the ONLY way researchers/anyone can get into T3 - NO BPOs for T3 stuff. So how would that stop the so called middle class from getting into T2 production? It doesn't, it helps... It also has the benefit of putting more power into the hands of moon miners (hey, they get some cash for a change as demand would multiply)....It would also put more emphasis on moon mining and POS ownership (combat/alliances etc etc)....It would also make low sec/0.0 more desirable (POS ownership and T2 material transport)....OK, it would result in an increase of T2 stuff on the market, but 1: so what and 2: several Devs have already stated, balancing in game is based on the use of T2 gear anyway... Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!!
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.12.08 00:21:00 - [257] Originally by: Lootcatcher People train up different skills, the type of skills you train reflect on what you want want out of the game. You wanna use HACs and T2 guns you train gunnery, the people that trained science and industry get rewarded thru the T2 lottery or invention. Too many people whining about the T2 lottery are PVPers that just want cheap ships to go pvp with, they dont care how they are build, how many POSes are needed to make the advanced reactions/minerals. Train ALL the skills needed to build a HAC and THEN come back on this board to whine about the lottery, ill see you in about 4 months. My main alt can build Hacs/Cap ships, can fly Hacs, can use T2 guns, can run L4 missions, can run cosmos missions, can explore, can pvp, can run trade in low sec, can do alot of stuff....... just can't 'build' T2 stuff, because....NO BPOs... Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!!
Cerwyn Taraman Minmatar Phoenix Tech Industries	Posted - 2006.12.08 02:21:00 - [258] Don't know if its already been mentioned in this thread or not, but in the login and news items it says T2 BPOS being re-seeded in the patch on December 13th (next Wednesday!). Start rolling your dice now and hoping for good results!
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.12.08 08:23:00 - [259] Originally by: Cerwyn Taraman Don't know if its already been mentioned in this thread or not, but in the login and news items it says T2 BPOS being re-seeded in the patch on December 13th (next Wednesday!). Start rolling your dice now and hoping for good results! Weeeeeeeee!!! ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:02:00 - [260] Originally by: WhiskeyDP Edited by: WhiskeyDP on 07/12/2006 18:25:08 Originally by: Ramblin Man Edited by: Ramblin Man on 07/12/2006 11:35:38 ... Tbh, in all seriousness, it would lower the costs, as they'd be able to produce more and there would be limited competition. It wouldn't exactly increase equality between the proletariate and bourgeoisie though. seriously, plx enlighten me how owning more bpo's will lower the cost? Cost-to-player. I mis-spoke; a more correct word would have been price.
VBboy Caldari The Phoenix Rising Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:03:00 - [261] Next Wed it is then :) would still like to see this blog from Hammer but bring on the 13th! prays for an early Xmas Present VBboy
coolzero Gallente Horizon.Inc	Posted - 2006.12.08 17:32:00 - [262] ooow goodie do we get to see 50 million isk hulk now :P my god i hope so :) ive been mining my @#$ off to get the cash for it but its takes way to long(the hulk is way overpriced if you loose it you just get a fraction back from the insurance) Jack of all trades, master of none... Horizon-Inc (dutch only)
Lord Dynastron	Posted - 2006.12.08 18:38:00 - [263] Originally by: coolzero ooow goodie do we get to see 50 million isk hulk now :P my god i hope so :) ive been mining my @#$ off to get the cash for it but its takes way to long(the hulk is way overpriced if you loose it you just get a fraction back from the insurance) You will NEVER see 50 million isk Hulks unless A) The market nears saturation AND Mineral Prices go WAY down (cough Nocxium cough). Hulks cost 40-50 mil to build right now. B) Something better then a Hulk comes out. 100 mil would be a more realistic price... and if they seed extra (not just replacement) Hulk BPO's this might happen in a few months... ok...ok... quiet a few months.
VBboy Caldari The Phoenix Rising Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.13 19:43:00 - [264] Originally by: CCP Hammer I've been meaning to write a big blog about all of this stuff but with the patch coming out everything has been so hectic I haven't made the time. We are going to seed more tech 2 stuff to the lottery, heck maybe more of EVERYTHING that's been will be in there. Seeing as how the number of pilots researching and using that stuff has tripled since the lottery started it seems like we could use some more blueprint originals out there. Anyway, looks for a big blog from me Soon TM. Please Please make some time :) The community are going crazy as were all trying to guess whats going on behind the scenes!! I for one have no idea weather to hold onto the points i have or sell for Datacores and go down the invention route. How long are we looking at for re-seeding? Are all the BPO's going to be out there today or will they be seeded over a period of time? How many BPO's are being seeded...not sure if you can answer this but the community has no idea what to do regarding buying Tech 2 BPO's, Selling Tech 2 BPO's...the economy is unsettled and clarification in my opinion is really needed... VB
Exco Executor Occam's Razor Combine R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.02 12:35:00 - [265] CCP: Have you seeded all T2 BPO's you did plan to do, or you still in the process? www.occam-razor.com
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.02 12:45:00 - [266] i still got my "lack of sleipnir bpo" bug :( ------
Avery Cane	Posted - 2007.05.02 12:58:00 - [267] the bpos used to disappear from the agents info, according to my agents info the bpo lotto continues. so my fingers are still crossed.
Exco Executor Occam's Razor Combine R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.02 15:57:00 - [268] Btw... is the lottery totally random, or does your amount of RP's add your chances? www.occam-razor.com
Kane Jacobs North Star Networks Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.05.02 16:05:00 - [269] Originally by: Exco Executor Btw... is the lottery totally random, or does your amount of RP's add your chances? Every researchpoint counts as 1 ticket in the lottery and the more tickets you got the better is your chance at getting a bp.
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.02 16:09:00 - [270] Originally by: Avery Cane the bpos used to disappear from the agents info, according to my agents info the bpo lotto continues. so my fingers are still crossed. I just won bpo other day, crappy as it was I was still happy to win, flameburst precision light missle :) Join The Fight With Promo Today

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