EVE Search - So, T2 lottery reseeded?

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

So, T2 lottery reseeded?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Zosimos Sabina Amarr Loot	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:49:00 - [91] No, I'm not happy with T2. Having T2 bpo availability be similar to T1 would be an improvement in my eyes.
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:51:00 - [92] Edited by: Matori Kar on 30/11/2006 18:51:14 Originally by: BlueIceQueen Matori Kar how bout no....... seeding the prints to the extent of them being like t1 is a joke i think it was said best in the blueprints chan last night. those of you already looking to get t2 prints through RnD are to greedy. you get new content and demand more. cant you guys just be happy with what has been released so far? If CCP were to give me 1 bill isk a week for doing nothing then I would be happy.....but then I didnt win any good T2 BPOs did I - I didnt get a feking chance because they were all already gone before I could even approach an R&D agent... Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!!
BlueIceQueen	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:54:00 - [93] your not the only char to be in that boat. there are still people who have been playing since beta who havent even had a sniff of even 1 bpo through RnD unless they bought it
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:00:00 - [94] Originally by: BlueIceQueen your not the only char to be in that boat. there are still people who have been playing since beta who havent even had a sniff of even 1 bpo through RnD unless they bought it And that is supposed to be justification for keeping the system as it is? /sigh /shakes head The T1 system is based on minerals - minerals are an infinite resources. The T2 industry is based on BPO ownership, I think this sucks. It (imo) should be based on T2 materials, these are NOT an infinite supply, and would give POSs far far more importance than currently. T2 prices might crash, but they would still stay very profitable, because of limited resources. If 0.0 alliances don't want to fight over the control of T2 materials, that is their hard luck.....but it (imo) seems to make owning a chunk of 0.0 even more interesting, or at least getting involved in the logistics and material trade and transport.. Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!!
Slaaght Bana Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:03:00 - [95] Originally by: Chribba 'Chribba got no Veldspar BPO' ETA on fix? If you have a Veldspar BPO, you're going to need a lot of Trit. And for that you'll need a lot of Veldspar to get that Trit. .. and what we have there is known as a brain****! I endorse this signature! -Suvetar
Profhet Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:52:00 - [96] I think that this is where the economy/market fails in Eve. Your telling me if Honda was making a product that made them incredible profits, Toyota wouldnt work their asses off to either reverse engineer and improve or duplicate that product? I know that if anything Eve needs a ISK sink, it seems to me too many people have too much ISK, so why not make people who badly want T2 bpos spend the ISK to research for the bpos just like a "real" company would. ____________________________ FEED ON THE DYING
Malena Panic Gallente Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.11.30 20:29:00 - [97] Originally by: Matori Kar The T2 industry [...] should be based on T2 materials, these are NOT an infinite supply, and would give POSs far far more importance than currently. T2 prices might crash, but they would still stay very profitable, because of limited resources. If 0.0 alliances don't want to fight over the control of T2 materials, that is their hard luck.....but it (imo) seems to make owning a chunk of 0.0 even more interesting, or at least getting involved in the logistics and material trade and transport.. Bingo. Seeding the T2 BPOs on the market will bring the moribund T2 component production market to the fore, involving many more players, encouraging the further industrialization of 0.0, opening up many more opportunities for conflict and player interaction, etc. It's the right thing to do.
BlueIceQueen	Posted - 2006.11.30 20:36:00 - [98] Edited by: BlueIceQueen on 30/11/2006 20:36:09 Originally by: Matori Kar And that is supposed to be justification for keeping the system as it is? /sigh /shakes head The T1 system is based on minerals - minerals are an infinite resources. The T2 industry is based on BPO ownership, I think this sucks. It (imo) should be based on T2 materials, these are NOT an infinite supply, and would give POSs far far more importance than currently. T2 prices might crash, but they would still stay very profitable, because of limited resources. If 0.0 alliances don't want to fight over the control of T2 materials, that is their hard luck.....but it (imo) seems to make owning a chunk of 0.0 even more interesting, or at least getting involved in the logistics and material trade and transport.. lol you crak me up. i didnt say that as a justification more to put you at ease so that you know your not the only player in this game who is in the same situation. anyway as for the release of new t2 bpos as long as they dont flood the market like t1, I'm happy. if however they do flood the market with them then a lot of people will be smiling except those who own the t2 bpos now........ prices on t2 will fall...... 0.0 pos owners will get a nice isk intake monthly thanx to this which may drive component prices up or down a little due to the amount of people who are currently producing them. as for current situation i feel that it should be looked at in stages before addressing it any further and im sure ccp knows this already
DeODokktor Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2006.11.30 21:32:00 - [99] more t2 bpo's will not help. As it has been stated before. People who win often sell so the big t2 builders keep buying more bpo's.. -or- noobs start making the price so crap that no one wnats to produce. Bustard, Medium shld transporter II (Great examples).. they both went really rare even tho 1 producer of each module could keep the markets saturated. Reason: Undercutting made them **** near worth 0 so people quit building... Invention (depending on the ease of it) will bust monopolys and drive some of the really high priced items down (plus pick up on some of the undersupply problems).. new t2 bpo's would possibly drive prices to such crap that many modules&items would be on the market one month, off two..
Serapis Aote TBC	Posted - 2006.11.30 21:40:00 - [100] Originally by: Malena Panic Originally by: Matori Kar The T2 industry [...] should be based on T2 materials, these are NOT an infinite supply, and would give POSs far far more importance than currently. T2 prices might crash, but they would still stay very profitable, because of limited resources. If 0.0 alliances don't want to fight over the control of T2 materials, that is their hard luck.....but it (imo) seems to make owning a chunk of 0.0 even more interesting, or at least getting involved in the logistics and material trade and transport.. Bingo. Seeding the T2 BPOs on the market will bring the moribund T2 component production market to the fore, involving many more players, encouraging the further industrialization of 0.0, opening up many more opportunities for conflict and player interaction, etc. It's the right thing to do. This was always the right answer. It gets more players involved in more aspects of eve. t2 industry is the only real major flaw going in EVE now. If they fixed it by making it a resource based economic engine, as opposed to limited production based engine it would work better. I honestly do not understand why they continue witht the t2 lottery. If they want to keep R&D, just have it so R&D agents give out points and you can trade them in for BPC's at given amounts. As it stands now the market is just stupid, the only people that defend it our those who have the BPO's and even most of them no longer defend it.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.30 21:43:00 - [101] Make invention easier. Theres the answer. Currently, Invention appears to be so expensive and so much effort, you might aswell just buy the 200% mark up one from a BPO owner. That would be a failure. Invention should be letting people create T2 at, say 3x the BPO builder's cost. If the BPO owner wants to sell consistently, they have to lower their price to compete. It brings a real market element. ATM, the only people who can build T2 are "lottery winners", which really does bork up the market. Invention was the golden opportunity to change that- but has missed the mark. It's not even like you couldn't fluff it: "As New Eden's scientists progress with their inventive tasks, their methods are being continually streamlined and improved...." -----------------------------------------------
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.30 22:06:00 - [102] I would be stunned to find that CCP didn't have control of the probabilities of the invention process, and were able to adjust it upwards if it was proving too inefficient.
Ariel Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.30 22:21:00 - [103] Would seeding T2 BPOs to the NPC market increase component demands by an insane amount? Wouldn't this cause a mass movement of people into 0.0 in order to setup moon mining operations, and cause tons of wars and fights over prime territory? Isn't getting people out into 0.0 and 'player interaction' exactly what CCP and most of the regulars on this board constantly preach? Seeding T2 BPOs to NPC would be perfect for both of those factors!
Sir Emi Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.30 23:33:00 - [104] Edited by: Sir Emi on 30/11/2006 23:33:41 The T2 BPOs to start with was a wrong choice, for the player who got it would be chained to that BPO and taking all the fun of his game. Invention is a good thing, if the T2 would have started with Invention only, no T2 BPO's, Eve would have been a better playground :) Oh well, we learn and move on. New stuff is great, good job on Invention. Space Odyssey Maker... http://www.spaceo.net
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2006.11.30 23:38:00 - [105] Simple Fact: It's easier to unnerf Invention that nerf it. No... really. Remember when T2 Laser Crystal copy times were too quick? CCP addressed that fairly rapidly, and there was still a glut of prints on the market post-print-drop. Imagine that with the entire T2 market. Now imagine CCP's situation after the market is flooded with BPCs. What do they do? What can they do?! Better to take baby steps by unnerfing something market-related than to bjork the whole market by being overzealous (no offense to Amarr intended).
Pooka Caldari United Space Aillance USA	Posted - 2006.12.01 00:30:00 - [106] Edited by: Pooka on 01/12/2006 00:30:22 Yes please bring back the T2 BPO loyto AND invention. Something for everyone = win / win Proud memmber of the 3 Word: p·ca (POO-kuh) [pu:k@] Meaning: p·ca = goblin, sprite, pooka
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2006.12.01 00:31:00 - [107] Guys enough with the expert market statistician crap, just let them seed the T2 BPOS. The lottery is here to stay, there's no fighting it.
Akui Loa	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:09:00 - [108] Edited by: Akui Loa on 01/12/2006 02:11:10 Let's start this bit of work off with a solid foundation, shall we? No use in raising questions or making suggestions if the goal of the solution and actual nature of the problem isn't defined clearly, right? So what is the goal? Well, what are we doing? Debating a game mechanic within a science fiction multiplayer gaming universe. Right now you might be having and epiphany or questioning your own existance. Ignore that. This is more important. Ok. So what is in essence the goal of a good solid competitive mmorpg game mechanic? How about... To provide a reasonably balanced and rewarding set of game mechanics designed to facilitate and encourage player to player and player to environment interaction within the gaming environment in the interest of positive gameplay, competition, and growth. In this case, Research. The whole enchilda. Sounds tasty doesn't it? Mmm. Enchiladas. Everyone loves enchiladas. Ok, not everyone. For the sake of argument lets say the entire EVE playerbase who is interested in the entire fact of gameplay known as Research loves enchiladas. Trust me. The idea is to jam pack our Research Enchilada with the above tastiness - the goal of any good mmorpg game mechanic. Now let's get back to the problem... Research basically boils down into two distinct portions, currently. The T2 BPO Lottery and Invention. Let's look at both compared to the given goal. T2 BPO Lottery... accumulate RP, random lotto to determine T2 BPO winners, once fully seeded system still exists but is pointless. Reasonable Balance... Everyone who invests in Science skills can generate RP through Research Agents. Check. Rewarding... The winners of the lottery in effect get to enjoy a lifetime supply of Mammoths crammed full of gold-foil wrapped enchiladas. Rewarding? Mmmm. Check. Facilitate Player to Player and Player to Environment Interaction... Hmm. This one is tricky. Once they have the T2 BPO they really don't ever need to bother with the Research system ever again. It could be argued they stimulate the economy, but so would any other form of T2 production not based on a lottery system. Fail. Positive Gameplay, Competition, Growth... The system rewards less than 1% of the Research population for putting forth a random amount of effort. Gameplay, fail. Competition, monopoly, fail. Growth, alienate new and old players alike who are attracted to a Research dynamic, fail. Invention... a resource (time, RP, ISK) intensive method of 'inventing' an inferior (ME, PE, limited run) copy of a T2 BPO. Reasonable Balance... by itself? Check. Coupled with the lottery? Fail. Rewarding... by itself? Check. Coupled with the lottery? It only becomes rewarding once you realize your chance of obtaining T2 BPs of any sort through your own effort is 0%. Fail. Facilitate Player to Player and Player to Environment Interaction? Check, no doubt. Positive Gameplay, Competition, and Growth... by itself? Check. Coupled with the lottery? Fail. So, currently, neither system fits out goal. They both fail. Why? Because the T2 BPO Lottery system is a mechanic designed to fail. You will never balance a system containing this mechanic because it doesn't work on a gameplay level. You choose to alienate your playerbase and remove an entire facet of gameplay. Not even Invention can save the Lotto system. Lotto, "They're starving for an opportunity to experience science and industrial gameplay? But there are no more enchiladas! Give them Invention! Let them eat cake!" We all know what happened to the last person to use that phrase. A lotto only works as a mechanic if the results are finite and recyclable. For all those 'that's how a lotto works irl' fans, a lotto blesses the winners with cash, not a cash printing machine. Eventually even the cash runs out.
Akui Loa	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:15:00 - [109] I'm personally in favor of what I like to call the B3 system. B3 stands for A Blueprint is a Blueprint is a Blueprint. No more BPOs, no more BPCs. Just BPs. BPs can have ME and PE researched. BPs also work for a limited number of runs. Lotto winners win high run, high quality BPs for T2 goods. Invention grinders get low run, low quality BPs for T2 goods. Save your RP and still get lucky on a Lotto BP or spend it on Datawidgets and get a immidiate but lower quality Invention BP. Give the current BPO owners a very high run BP. For the sake percentages and throwing out mechanics let's say an arbitrary 1000 runs. Once 100 of those runs are burned, seed another 100 run BP through the Lotto system.
Naal Morno ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:47:00 - [110] Ok, you people are all talking about seeding T2 bpos to market (and therefore removing any need for T1 items) to "revolutionize" 0.0 space due to materials items would need to be built... Here is the solution to your 0.0 enrgizing envy. Change build requirements of T1 stuff to include T2 comps. Your problems just got solved. _________________________________________ Once I thought T2 BPO Lottery is a problem... Then I've become a part of problem and I relized that previously I was just plain jealous.
Mack Dorgeans Camelot Innovations	Posted - 2006.12.01 04:01:00 - [111] Originally by: Patch86 Make invention easier. Theres the answer. Currently, Invention appears to be so expensive and so much effort, you might aswell just buy the 200% mark up one from a BPO owner. That would be a failure. Invention should be letting people create T2 at, say 3x the BPO builder's cost. If the BPO owner wants to sell consistently, they have to lower their price to compete. It brings a real market element. ATM, the only people who can build T2 are "lottery winners", which really does bork up the market. Invention was the golden opportunity to change that- but has missed the mark. It's not even like you couldn't fluff it: "As New Eden's scientists progress with their inventive tasks, their methods are being continually streamlined and improved...." FYI, 3x the T2 BPO holder's build cost is well above what I'm currently getting for Astartes. Oneiros I'm lucky if some fool is willing to pay 2x. Nemesis, well let's just say 1.3x is a darn good day in the major markets. These are just examples why it's not always easy to adjust things. Demand on a Cerberus or a Cap Recharger II makes 3x a rather cheap modifier, but not every T2 BPO was created equal.
Ira Theos	Posted - 2006.12.01 04:36:00 - [112] Ok Gentlemen, let's cut to the chase. It seems all the complaints about EVE being rigged in favor of the T2 CARTEL have not fallen on completely deaf ears. CCP says it is time to add to the T2 BPOs in circulation.... BUT DOES CCP HAVE THE WILL TO DO WHAT IS NECESSARY TO BREAK THE CARTEL?? I'm not sure they do. You will note the BPO GODS (CVA as an example already whining here to retain their Goose that lays the golden eggs. And I had to laugh when the other guy said he was a "small time T2 BPO player and he only had 10 billion in his account...LOL.) They will not release their sole grip on that Goose voluntarily. "A few" new BPOs will not accomplish anything as they will quickly be bought up by the BPO GODS who have most of the isk in the game anyway (due to CCPs royal screwup with the lottery in the first place). IF CCP WANTS TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD IN THIS GAME SO THAT THE HAVE-NOTS HAVE AN EQUAL CHANCE IN THIS GAME TO ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING, THEY NEED TO CONTINUE TO PUMP BPOs INTO THE SYSTEM UNTIL THE CARTEL MEMBERS ARE BROKE FROM ATTEMPTING TO BUY OUT THE BPOs AS THEY ARE ISSUED. Personally I am very doubtful they will do this because of their lack of understanding of basic economics. If they understood this, they would never have introduced the lottery to begin with. It has disrupted the game and created a monster and it will take radical "Trust Busting" to correct the problem and bring a level playing field back to the game for all players. (NO I'M NOT SAYING ALL PLAYERS SHOULD HAVE THE SAME ISK!!! I'M SAYING ALL PLAYERS SHOULD HAVE THE SAME OPPORTUNITY TO ACQUIRE ISK THROUGH THE GAME SYSTEM AND NOT BE GIVEN EXCLUSIVE ALL-POWERFUL ISK-PRINTING RIGHTS BY VIRTUE OF A FLAWED AND ARBITRARY DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM.) Why should they do this? One reason.... TO AVOID SUBSCRIPTION LOSS..... FROM A) PLAYERS WHO WILL QUIT WHEN THEY REALIZE THAT THEY CANNOT HOPE TO COMPETE IN ANY ACTIVITY WITH THE BPO GODS, AND B) PEOPLE IN THE GAMING COMMUNITY WHO ARE INCREASINGLY AWARE OF THE IMBALANCE IN EVE AND WHO WILL BE DISSUADED FROM EVER SUBSCRIBING BECAUSE THEY KNOW THE GAME IS "RIGGED". WHO WANTS TO PLAY POKER, WHEN THEY KNOW THE DECK IS "STACKED"? NOBODY!
Le Pecarosh	Posted - 2006.12.01 05:04:00 - [113] Originally by: Naal Morno Ok, you people are all talking about seeding T2 bpos to market (and therefore removing any need for T1 items) to "revolutionize" 0.0 space due to materials items would need to be built... Here is the solution to your 0.0 enrgizing envy. Change build requirements of T1 stuff to include T2 comps. Your problems just got solved. Oh, T2 BPO thread wouldn't be complete without your valuable input, would it? And your sig does reflect it well, you (and many other T2 BPO holders) are a part of a problem...
Wicke Gallente Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.01 05:31:00 - [114] How do you expect the BIG alliances to build Titans w/o the free money every day. So, is the t2 bpo the ISK sink? Its just the ways to the means.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Two Brothers Mining Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.01 05:43:00 - [115] Originally by: Wicke How do you expect the BIG alliances to build Titans w/o the free money every day. So, is the t2 bpo the ISK sink? Its just the ways to the means. And the "free money" you're talking about is coming from T2 BPOs? Do you happen to be T2 BPO owner, by any chance?
Wicke Gallente Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.01 06:06:00 - [116] Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Wicke How do you expect the BIG alliances to build Titans w/o the free money every day. So, is the t2 bpo the ISK sink? Its just the ways to the means. And the "free money" you're talking about is coming from T2 BPOs? Do you happen to be T2 BPO owner, by any chance? No. My numerous RnD agents seem to be lazy. Wouldve been nice tho. Multiplying ISk instead of adding ISK wouldve made my eve life much easier. (ty to all my friends who give me good prices, you guys are the exception of course)
oodin Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.01 12:22:00 - [117] Originally by: Splagada was months ago, but would you believe a former corpmate of mine had a heat diss 2 bpo, omg, when i asked her how in the freaking hell she said it was because she smartly said NO to the TWO first offers of bpos she had from her agent. ****it!! THIRD offer lol i think i then lied in foetal position and cried for the rest of the day
JeanPierre	Posted - 2006.12.01 13:07:00 - [118] Originally by: Naal Morno Ok, you people are all talking about seeding T2 bpos to market (and therefore removing any need for T1 items) to "revolutionize" 0.0 space due to materials items would need to be built... Here is the solution to your 0.0 enrgizing envy. Change build requirements of T1 stuff to include T2 comps. Your problems just got solved. You're right. The problem of inexpensive ships for new players would go away. ****, why didn't I see this before? We should also encourage CCP to charge up the new player credit cards to their credit limit. That'll show'em.
Martinez Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.12.01 14:29:00 - [119] Reading this thread has made me realize how dumb some of you people really are. 1. Getting rid of the lotto is dumb because there isnt a fair way to give out t2 bpos by any other way than by chance. hence LOTTO! 2. If you made it mission based, the people who play eve all day will win over people in school and work. 3. If you get rid of t2 bpos and make only copies, for the people who say that have no idea what it takes to produce t2 items. they are very skill intensive, take large amounts of time organizing components, ships, mins etc. so when Person A gets his 5 run bpc he doesnt have the skills or the know how to build the ** things. this will create even more of a shortage. 4. There are some ships and mods that have been lost or are not used. yes they should be reseeded. also the older bpos that got released and had much fewer released could use some reseeding, example hacs, interceptors, and a few mods. But the more recent t2 bpos released where released with much greater numbers, so they dont need to be reseeded. 5. FOR THE PEOPLE THAT SAY T2 MAKERS GET FREE MONEY, YOU ARE IDIOTS IF YOU THINK THAT. i would say 75% of t2 bpos make little to no profit. yes there are some bpos out there that make huge profit, a few hacs and a few mods. i know that the **ation, Propator, and Purifier make NO money. the time and effort it takes to make them just makes them not worth producing. So to wrap this up, t2 stuff is going to be continue to be seeded in the lotto. take the month or two in training get some agents and get in there and do it yourself. quit complaining! t3 will be done differently i am sure.
Allen Deckard Gallente LFC Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.01 14:45:00 - [120] Personally with the new setup it seems to me the amount of t2 items would be fairly easy to control without over or under saturating the market. All it would take is adjusting the rp required to get the bpc's As far as not having the skills to produce said t2 item with your bpc as the above poster suggested? You realize you have to have those skills in order to have the agent correct? And if someone did get the bpc without the skills then it just opens market for buyers. The current lottery sucks. Not cause it aint fair. Not cause some get rich. Simply cause it only allows a select few to play in that portion of the game. There are alot of people that pay to play eve. T2 is an part that many never get the chance. It also requires no effort to get into just luck. Not much in eve is based soley on luck without any effort involved. By just adjusting what rp it takes to get the requred materials to make bpc's as the current new system add's some game play in making t2. It also self adjusts the market prices on items simply cause if something is over priced people will make the over priced item.

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.