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Murauke
EvE Cookie Collective
0
   |
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:42:00 -
[61] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:xxanjoahir wrote:Too many people getting caught up with the whole argument of more isk in empire discussion...
Nerfing something isn't always the answer...buffing something is also good for the game.
So far its been an argument from null sec saying "its empty becuase most have moved to empire for more isk/hour...by removing/nerfing high sec incursions it will force more people back to null sec and more targets"...
High secers are replying saying "becuase we want to play the game in high sec we are condemned to not enjoying the game as much as null sec dwellers" - counter argument of "more isk for those incursion in null / low sec"...
And a suggestion that LP's are removed for High sec incursions....
Miss anything?
The problem with buffing the isk from other activities is that there unintended consequences (needing to buff all the other activities from mining to whatever) Nerf is always used because you normally nerf a new item after it has been tested and results gained. Since incursions have been in for awhile now the results are in and they say that the high sec side of incursions are too high. I am not about nerfing incursions I am about nerfing the high sec side and moving them to low and null. The idea of eve is not to stay in highsec. I know this is the "casual side" of the game but people only use this reasoning because CCP has not done enough to allow the casual player to enter null and 0.0 A great suggestion made on the forum was to incorporate safe zones deep in npc 0.0 areas to attract more people into 0.0
The results show only one thing....null sec is the broken entity not high sec incursions...
Leave Incursions the way they are they are every has the right to earn isk and have fun like everyone else regardless of which sector they play the game...
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Gaitrie
DPB Corporation
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:45:00 -
[62] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:[quote=xxanjoahir]
A great suggestion made on the forum was to incorporate safe zones deep in npc 0.0 areas to attract more people into 0.0
That is a great Idea. I myself have not been at all in null sec and having those save spots would definitely lure me in more.
The game is being marketed as a big sandbox - why is CCP then forcing me in a way to go to a particular area. If it is really a sandbox game then I can go and do whatever I want to do in either high sec or low/null sec and I should have at-least something to do in those area's.
The problem what I think is is that the people that have loads of isk to spend complain about the game - not being a challenge and the people that have no isk at all - complaining making isk is hard.
But I have to say that null sec should be more rewarding to get more people in it. and yes those save spots are a great idea
>>> Mine is Bigger than Yours ! <<< |
Murauke
EvE Cookie Collective
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:49:00 -
[63] - Quote
Gaitrie wrote:[quote=BolsterBomb][quote=xxanjoahir]
But I have to say that null sec should be more rewarding to get more people in it. and yes those save spots are a great idea
This - Null sec needs more reward, didnt you just have a anom buff? |
Everseeker
Northgate
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:54:00 -
[64] - Quote
I love the fact that a good number of the players advocating a complete removal of hisec incursions are members of lowsec/nullsec alliances... |
Trainwreck McGee
Ghost Ship Inc.
150
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:57:00 -
[65] - Quote
just heavily nerf high sec rewards. Its insane how much the bears can make with no risk.
CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |
TriadSte
3rd Division
26
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 19:16:00 -
[66] - Quote
Everyone posting here against Incursion rewards are retards.
No risk? You crazy...
3 Logis are needed to keep a fleet alive meaning the amount of incoming DPS is huge. No risk pfft....grow up.
The better fleets are few and far between, Getting the better fleets together takes time and preparation. Why shouldn't people be allowed to make good isk in high sec? Is there some law against it?
Alot of Incursion runners are null sec alts making isk for the null sec operations. Building titans and super isn't cheap for any alliance and at least this way it's legit.
Unlike the RMT that goes down in the big alliances in null to fund operations
Oops did I say that? 
That CCP know about and do nothing..
Oops did I say that too 
Because of the above I don't think CCP will dull these down because it goes towards CCPs end game.
0.0 pew pew |
Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp
BricK sQuAD.
148
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 19:37:00 -
[67] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:Everyone posting here against Incursion rewards are retards. No risk? You crazy... 3 Logis are needed to keep a fleet alive meaning the amount of incoming DPS is huge. No risk pfft....grow up. The better fleets are few and far between, Getting the better fleets together takes time and preparation. Why shouldn't people be allowed to make good isk in high sec? Is there some law against it? Alot of Incursion runners are null sec alts making isk for the null sec operations. Building titans and super isn't cheap for any alliance and at least this way it's legit. Unlike the RMT that goes down in the big alliances in null to fund operations Oops did I say that? That CCP know about and do nothing.. Oops did I say that too Because of the above I don't think CCP will dull these down because it goes towards CCPs end game. 0.0 pew pew
they are no risk, those 3 logi's in vg sites is over kill you can easily get away with 2(we do often) most of the time, only reason you have a 3rd is for random server farts and dc's.
the argument that 0.0 players are using incursions to fund 0.0 activity is the reason they need to be brought into line. 4-5mil payouts for high sec vg is about what it should be.
CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
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Admiral Yamamoto
Aperture Harmonics
K162
2
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Posted - 2011.12.08 19:52:00 -
[68] - Quote
Wallet
I posted this in the other incursion thread... Humans have to eat, ****, get drinks, etc. No fleet is going to be able to maintain a 150m/ an hour fleet for any duration.
If you take a 5 minute break, you drop your isk / hour down by 20-30 mil isk.
The wallet screens I posted is for a friday-sunday farm session i thought I'd try out after all these posts started popping up. You'll see that my wallet fluctuates anywhere from 65 mil an hour (when we lost a bunch of sites, had to get logistics stuff sorted out) to about 112 million isk an hour.
For the higher end of the wallet blinkies, it was because we got lucky and had a lot of NCOs pop up off peak hours, and were dominating the shield fleet that tried to compete with us... Which means while our isk per hour increased, theirs decreased.
Our fleet composition was above average for this, it wasnt 2 logis / 9 legions, but it was pretty decent.
Highsec level 4s payout about 60 million isk / hour for as long as you can keep your eyes open. If you run for a good corp and get decent isk/lp conversion, that number can go higher. There were reports of the one guy who was cherry picking level 4s from different agents in specific ships tailored for individual missions, declining missions like a maniac and getting well over 200 mil / isk per hour from level 4s... I would compare this activity to the super legion fleet raking in 150 mil / hour. The average incursion player is making sub 100 mil an hour average.
If you nerf highsec incursions, people will just revert back to level 4 grinding. No risk, no having to wait for other people to move their car, no competition, a steady stream of isk straight to the wallet.
TL;DR, if you nerf one, nerf the other :) |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 19:56:00 -
[69] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:
The better fleets are few and far between, Getting the better fleets together takes time and preparation. Why shouldn't people be allowed to make good isk in high sec? Is there some law against it?
I don't think high sec in general should be nerfed. I do think low sec needs some sort of boost because there are precious little isk making opportunities there.
But the amount of isk must have some relationship to the amount of risk. High sec incursion runners are making between 166-247 isk per hour. Don't you agree that is a bit high? Do you think it should be more?
I'm thinking if they cut out the lp for high sec incursions that would put the figure at around 115-195 million isk per hour. Thats still not bad is it?
If incursions would occassionally hot drop tons tackle and cap ships - like happens in pvp then yes I would agree there is risk. But I get the sense they are just like other sleeper ai npcs. Once you learn how to beat them you can beat them again and again and again .... to the point where you are pretty much just farming them.
As for the guys who first figured out how to beat them - I hope they made good isk because being the first of the bunch was likely very challenging and risky. But now the community knows how to beat them. So keeping the rewards the same for the guys who are just following the cookie cutter directions of others, as they were for the guys who had to figure it out on their own doesn't make sense.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Xen0nn
PassThrough
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:18:00 -
[70] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Xen0nn wrote:An incursion fleet takes quite some effort, you have to find a fleet which can take a while some times, and if you're in one you have to hope youGÇÖre in a good one especially with a shiny ship. Perhaps you should look up the meaning of the word 'effort'. Sitting in a queue and paying an entrance fee once (buying a shiny ship) is not effort. Next you're going to claim that incursions are risky. 
Waiting in a chat room in my Logi clone for me takes effort, effort as I have to advertise and pay attention to possible invites, more effort then Anom ratting at least.
So you're telling us null sec Anoms are more risky then Incursions?
Either way my point which you clearly missed (Obvious troll is obvious) is that null vs high sec doesn't really count here as there clearly isn't more risk in null sec, and that the play style of null sec doesn't suit everyone, so should they make less because of it?
This does however not say that Isk gain might be a bit over the top in Incursions. |
Jonas Xiamon
33
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:22:00 -
[71] - Quote
xxanjoahir wrote: Incursions
a great form of PVP
Oh...
Questions, comments, complaints?
Please feel free to reply,
I'll be serving coffee and ice cream soon. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
251
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:26:00 -
[72] - Quote
xxanjoahir wrote:Wasn't there a coalition of alliance that disbanded this year that provided the game play you seek?
Why do you think they didnt survive?
If you're talking about the NC, then I pretty much know why they didn't survive, yes.
What's your theory? |
Gaitrie
DPB Corporation
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:30:00 -
[73] - Quote
Do we actually know what CCP will do with the current Incursions ??
We have been speculating about stuff - people getting upset - blood pressure rising to a critical high :-)
maybe we shoudl wait and see what they are actually planning to do and then start the complain train
>>> Mine is Bigger than Yours ! <<< |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
251
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:40:00 -
[74] - Quote
xxanjoahir wrote:Cearain wrote:
No one has ever explained why its less risk to run an incursion in low sec than it is in null sec. If anything those who own sov where they are running incursions have much less risk than low sec and npc null sec. .
AND they pay out is more...
Please tell me how we're supposed to run incursions that appear in hostile space. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
251
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:43:00 -
[75] - Quote
Everseeker wrote:I love the fact that a good number of the players advocating a complete removal of hisec incursions are members of lowsec/nullsec alliances...
Whoever is advocating the complete removal of hisec incursions are pretty dumb, seeing as incursions are one of the best ways to get people to work together as a team, with a proper fleet composition, an FC, logis, etc. I'd go so far as to call incursions a stepping stone/learning stage for future PVP, and removing that kind of mechanism is dumb as rocks. |
Utrigas Hakaari
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:44:00 -
[76] - Quote
Jonas Xiamon wrote:xxanjoahir wrote: Incursions
a great form of PVP Oh...
PVP doesnt always have to be about blowing each other up! |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:53:00 -
[77] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:xxanjoahir wrote:Cearain wrote:
No one has ever explained why its less risk to run an incursion in low sec than it is in null sec. If anything those who own sov where they are running incursions have much less risk than low sec and npc null sec. .
AND they pay out is more... Please tell me how we're supposed to run incursions that appear in hostile space.
Right so the incursions in sov space are going to be run by the people who own sov there in relative safety. That is relative to npc null sec or low sec.
If we are looking at risk versus reward low sec and npc null sec should pay more than sov null sec. Certainly the low sec incursions should not pay worse than null sec. Would you agree?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
251
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:55:00 -
[78] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:3 Logis are needed to keep a fleet alive meaning the amount of incoming DPS is huge. No risk pfft....grow up.
Are you really trying to say that something which is as predictable as incursion sites is dangerous because you have to use a whole three logis?
Mother of god, I must be in mortal danger when I'm in nullsec fleets with 20+ logis.
(If incursion sites had been as unpredictable as PVP is, then I'd say incursions were risky. As it is, they're predictable and probably gamed down to a T by now.) |
Garbad theWeak
50
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:03:00 -
[79] - Quote
Anyone who thinks earning 80m an hour from incursions is game breaking needs to l2p.
Incursions is already risky (for pve). It takes a good bit of overhead time (flying to the system, organizing groups, and so on). And the final result is only marginally better than running level 4s or ratting, and significantly lower than you can earn in a lot of other ways. The only thing imbalanced about incurions is that it doesn't scale -- a low SP char earns as much as a skilled one. This means its much better than a lot of unskilled or uninvested chars could make before. But Incursions adds something eve didn't have before. It adds group raids, a reason for bears to form a community and play together. And that's a good thing.
Sincerely,
A guy who stopped running Incursions because they weren't profitable enough |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:10:00 -
[80] - Quote
Garbad theWeak wrote:Anyone who thinks earning 80m an hour from incursions is game breaking needs to l2p.
The issue is when they are making 2-3 xs that.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Garbad theWeak
50
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:12:00 -
[81] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Garbad theWeak wrote:Anyone who thinks earning 80m an hour from incursions is game breaking needs to l2p.
The issue is when they are making 2-3 xs that. Not possible, especially when you factor in travel time and LP research cost and the like. |
Utrigas Hakaari
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:15:00 -
[82] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Garbad theWeak wrote:Anyone who thinks earning 80m an hour from incursions is game breaking needs to l2p.
The issue is when they are making 2-3 xs that.
And by that they are already risking a lot in shiny ships... |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:24:00 -
[83] - Quote
Garbad theWeak wrote:Cearain wrote:Garbad theWeak wrote:Anyone who thinks earning 80m an hour from incursions is game breaking needs to l2p.
The issue is when they are making 2-3 xs that. Not possible, especially when you factor in travel time and LP research cost and the like.
Thats what a guy who was trying to defend the high sec incursions was saying. I don't think he would exagerate his income when he was trying to argue they shouldn't be nerfed.
The lp was calculated at a pretty easy to get 2.5k per lp. When you have the pick of all the lp stores as well as unique items in the concord store its pretty easy to get. I would imagine some people through research etc could get more than that for the lp.
As far as travel time. I see incursions in allot of the same places over and over. But whatever, how long does it take to hit autopilot?
If not autopilot and you are going to do the jumps yourself its just a matter of 15 minutes or so and then you run them in the same constellation right?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp
BricK sQuAD.
148
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:42:00 -
[84] - Quote
Xen0nn wrote:Smoking Blunts wrote:Utrigas Hakaari wrote:Cearain wrote:Garbad theWeak wrote:Anyone who thinks earning 80m an hour from incursions is game breaking needs to l2p.
The issue is when they are making 2-3 xs that. And by that they are already risking a lot in shiny ships... there is no risk if you are not an idiot. id like for the old rules on war decs passing to members of the same fleet to be reintroduced tbh, then there would be real risk to incursions. There is always the risk if in pug that some idiot (mostly Logi) doesn't pay attention causing your ship to go pop, and it's quite quickly achieved.
any smart group, would run the 3 logi's with there corp or known group of friends, dps is disposible and easy to pick up, the logi's are you back bone
CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
|
Xen0nn
PassThrough
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:47:00 -
[85] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:
any smart group, would run the 3 logi's with there corp or known group of friends, dps is disposible and easy to pick up, the logi's are you back bone
But from my experience in some occasions it can take quite some focus from the logies, or it can go wrong quite easily.
But I agree with a group of friends it will make it less risky, however many players simply pug via BTL. |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:53:00 -
[86] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Cearain wrote:Right so the incursions in sov space are going to be run by the people who own sov there in relative safety. That is relative to npc null sec or low sec. They're still vulnerable to roaming gangs and the like. My point with "hostile space" is that travelling to, and running incursions in hostile space, be that NPC or SOV nullsec, or even in lowsec, is prone to gatecamps and hostile gangs which may be designed specifically to cut incursion fleets to ribbons. You don't have that in hisec incursions. At least in lowsec and npc nullsec, you can dock up. SOV nullsec isn't quite as easy to wait out hostiles. Cearain wrote:If we are looking at risk versus reward low sec and npc null sec should pay more than sov null sec. Certainly the low sec incursions should not pay worse than null sec. Would you agree? Actually, I wouldn't be opposed to limit incursions to hisec only, since it's more of a nuisance with the cynojamming etc. As I've said before, they're good tools for training people to work together in moderately tight fleet compositions. vOv.
I think you agree that there seems to be no reason to think low sec incursions are less risky than null sec incursions.
CCP always pretends that the risk gets worse gradually as the sec status of a system goes down. But in reality the risk basically just hits a cliff when you go from .5 to .4. The more they acknowledge this the more balanced the game will be.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp
BricK sQuAD.
148
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:54:00 -
[87] - Quote
Xen0nn wrote:Smoking Blunts wrote:
any smart group, would run the 3 logi's with there corp or known group of friends, dps is disposible and easy to pick up, the logi's are you back bone
But from my experience in some occasions it can take quite some focus from the logies, or it can go wrong quite easily. But I agree with a group of friends it will make it less risky, however many players simply pug via BTL.
the vg sites are easy as pie. the bs site is the only taxing in the slightest site and thats just cos the rats spred aggro. the other 2 are so easy its not funny.
no idea what BTL is
CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
|
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:54:00 -
[88] - Quote
Utrigas Hakaari wrote:Cearain wrote:Garbad theWeak wrote:Anyone who thinks earning 80m an hour from incursions is game breaking needs to l2p.
The issue is when they are making 2-3 xs that. And by that they are already risking a lot in shiny ships...
No they make that in high sec.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Xen0nn
PassThrough
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:58:00 -
[89] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:Xen0nn wrote:Smoking Blunts wrote:
any smart group, would run the 3 logi's with there corp or known group of friends, dps is disposible and easy to pick up, the logi's are you back bone
But from my experience in some occasions it can take quite some focus from the logies, or it can go wrong quite easily. But I agree with a group of friends it will make it less risky, however many players simply pug via BTL. the vg sites are easy as pie. the bs site is the only taxing in the slightest site and thats just cos the rats spred aggro. the other 2 are so easy its not funny. no idea what BTL is
BTL PUB, is an Incursion LFG chan. |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
307
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:08:00 -
[90] - Quote
0.0 guys have the chance to do them.
Also 0.0 pay is almost twice the high sec pay.
So why is 0.0 people complaining? |
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