Whoever is advocating the complete removal of hisec incursions are pretty dumb, seeing as incursions are one of the best ways to get people to work together as a team, with a proper fleet composition, an FC, logis, etc. I'd go so far as to call incursions a stepping stone/learning stage for future PVP, and removing that kind of mechanism is dumb as rocks.

Even when incursions occur in null sec or low sec no one goes.... NO ONE.... Not even the sov holding alliance goes to complete them...AND you complain about having no ways of making ISK depsite a site being on your door step?

This 100%

No one is stopping anyone from doing losec/nullsec incursions. If they were a hisec-only feature I'd understand but that's not true.

nullsec is, on a day to day basis, empty compared to how it should be...

[. . .]

In lowsec or in nullsec, losing your ship is not only commonplace, it's to be expected. Whether you rat, mine, haul or PVP, chances are you'll lose your ship every time you undock.

Bottom line is, you don't need to always replenish your wallet regularly just to be able to play

If they are going to remove them a good alternative would be to just cut them back if they kept them on in a few different constellations. Maybe just low sec areas? At least some of the highsec incursion people would keep doing the lowsec ones if the highsec ones stopped. Do they want more people in lowsec? That might be a good way to do it.

I find it hard to believe that they'd just remove something like that without some sort of viable replacement. Maybe another priate faction will do the same thing with just a little twist. So the people doing them don't suddenly feel like they were left with nothing.

This 100%

No one is stopping anyone from doing losec/nullsec incursions. If they were a hisec-only feature I'd understand but that's not true.

Last few times we've had incursions in our space, we have gone and dealt with it because it disrupts JBs. vOv

The issue the complainers have obviously isn't that hisec is more profitable; it's not. It's that killing carebears isn't as profitable as being one.

Why do an incursion where your bear fleet can get hotdropped when you can just move the fleet to a CONCORD-protected and more readily available incursion in hisec? I mean like what's the point man?

Some of our guys are up billions because they've killed/scammed so many ice miners. vOv

Plus, nothing is stopping the hotdrop fleet from getting in different ships and doing some nullsec incursions of their own, making more money than the hisec bears.

Why do an incursion where your bear fleet can get hotdropped when you can just move the fleet to a CONCORD-protected and more readily available incursion in hisec? I mean like what's the point man?

Why do an incursion where your bear fleet can get hotdropped when you can just move the fleet to a CONCORD-protected and more readily available incursion in hisec? I mean like what's the point man?

Is nullsec empty or do you lose your ship often? Which is it? Can't be both empty and high risk.

More proof that this obviously has nothing to do with hisec vs. nullsec. It's about what you've chosen to do in-game doesn't get you as much net profit as what someone else chose to do in-game. That sucks. HTFU, as the l337 anti-bears like to say, and stop losing so many ships, or run some of the nullsec incursions that go untouched.

Oh ok, it sounds like profitable PvP is alive and well. Why exactly are you complaining about the isk in hisec again? ...

Why bother risking their bear fleet getting hotdropped in turn when they can run incursions in CONCORD-protected territory instead?

I get more profit by doing market fuckery in Jita, than I ever would by futzing about with incursions, especially because I can't stand the wowesque shorthand speak they vomit forth in incursion channels. What I do, though, doesn't help inflate ISK, though.

This just feels like some sort of elitism. Fleet mechanics have relied on roles similar to other games long before incursions. the only change is applying them to PvE and PUG's. Seems like expected progression really.

Looks like I miss-attributed a post on the second part

Of course it is elitism, only it isn't where I expect you think it is.

I wouldn't be complaining if they had actually typed things out instead of going wowesque or SMS-shorthand if you must.


I'm not sure what you mean that you mis-attributed it, as I do make the majority of my isk on the markets, but oh well, less typing. I'll run with it.

And heh, "stop losing so many ships". It's like you think I lose a lot of ships during fights. I lose ships, yes, but I don't lose a fucktonne of them, and the ships I do lose, I've replaced handily through my hisec activities. Doesn't change the fact that I get a better return for my time investment in hisec than I would ever get in nullsec, and that this is gayer than gay tony on ice.

So one playstyle is more profitable than another, interesting. Welcome to the sandbox.

One playstyle is so much more profitable than every other playstyle its stupid to do anything else. Welcome to the railroad.

the isk/h for Vanguards is wrong and i dont mean a little wrong i mean ******* stupidly wrong. ill pointout at this point that i have actually run soem incursions and making 80-100mil an hour is nice and all, but that much in empire is plain wrong

One playstyle is so much more profitable than every other playstyle its stupid to do anything else. Welcome to the railroad.

Both.

It's empty if you just go roaming around. You lose ships if you go kick over some structure so people actually have something to defend.

This isn't rocket science.

There's more to the question than A or B. When you have 10B ISK net worth, it's easy to make a billion ISK a month without undocking. It's about return on investment: 1% is stupidly easy to find, 3% is harder, and so forth. Churning over 1% deals will earn billions a day if you have enough capital to invest.

Why do an incursion where your bear fleet can get hotdropped when you can just move the fleet to a CONCORD-protected and more readily available incursion in hisec? I mean like what's the point man?

Really? Zim here says he makes more money playing the market and his buddies ganking and ransoming than what's paid out by hisec incursions... Which is it?

Really? Zim here says he makes more money playing the market and his buddies ganking and ransoming than what's paid out by hisec incursions... Which is it?

According to you nullsec should be an isk fountain seeing as it's so empty there's practically zero risk, right? Should the sanctums be nerfed further because risk is so low simply due to lack of population?

Until the payouts from nullsec PvE are large enough to mitigate losses from camps, ganks, hotdrops, and time spent competing for content, and still remain more profitable than hisec PvE, they're not going out there.

You want them out there to roflstomp them. That's your playstyle, it's not theirs. The issue is the predatory attitude; if you're using that space to shoot anything that moves it's naive to expect anyone other than like-minded people to be there with you.

My point still stands that other hisec activities other than incursions still generate more wealth than incursions (for the same or less risk).

Yet hisec incursion payouts need to be nerfed for some reason...

Zim is full of it.

Possibly trading the rest is bs.

So CCP might as well shut down nullsec then. Hisec and hello kitty for all.