And it could be yours if you just took it away from us.

Oh wait, now you have to deal with the awesome SOV mechanics. **** that, better to become pets of some renter, or just go do L4s or incursions. Oh well.

I guess thats what the so called null sec players did and it shouldnt be possible for people in high sec to make isk and enjoy it...

and it shouldnt be possible for people in high sec to make isk and enjoy it...

Point to a single post where I've said that. I dare you.

Make incursions only award LP and no isk, problem solved - they become isk sink instead of damn isk fountain

I must comment that the discussion from the goon and the OP has been a good read so far and I can see both opinions,

100m/h....

Well lets assume I have a 3 hours to farm.
I log on. Move to Incursion - 20minutes
I try to find a group - 20 minutes-30 minutes.
I get lucky and we are not missing a dps/logi for whole 2 hours and take only one 10 minute bio break.
Then I have to deal with 100 more people in system competing for same resource.
I end up getting 160m for 2 hours of active incursion running out of my 3 hours of game time.
I can refit my machariel and easily get more doing missions, its just even more borrrrinnng.


100m/h is of course possible but its not usual gameplay scenario. You need to have 8+ hours, off peak hours and 10 more people dedicated to farming non stop.

Having said that I do think VGs should be nerfed by about 30%. Forcing ppl into assaults and HQs which cant be done afk and where you actually need to pay at least a bit of attention.

100m/h....

Well lets assume I have a 3 hours to farm.
I log on. Move to Incursion - 20minutes
I try to find a group - 20 minutes-30 minutes.
I get lucky and we are not missing a dps/logi for whole 2 hours and take only one 10 minute bio break.
Then I have to deal with 100 more people in system competing for same resource.
I end up getting 160m for 2 hours of active incursion running out of my 3 hours of game time.
I can refit my machariel and easily get more doing missions, its just even more borrrrinnng.


100m/h is of course possible but its not usual gameplay scenario. You need to have 8+ hours, off peak hours and 10 more people dedicated to farming non stop.

Having said that I do think VGs should be nerfed by about 30%. Forcing ppl into assaults and HQs which cant be done afk and where you actually need to pay at least a bit of attention.

Mother of god. I haven't even remotely implied that people shouldn't be able to make isk in hisec, all I've said is that incursions pay out too well, and that nullsec is, on a day to day basis, empty compared to how it should be.

If you're in hisec, and you're not a complete dumbass who's flying around in a 1b+ isk boat (whether through fitted modules or cargohold content), or happen to fly a mackinaw/hulk/orca in gallente ice, chances are you're safe. You can of course screw up and lose a ship to rats, get wardecced or get owned by canflippers etc, in which case sucks to be you. Bottom line is, you don't need to always replenish your wallet regularly just to be able to play (unless you're one of those who buy plex to keep playing, in which case I suspect you're loving the new plex prices), at least not if you play smart. In lowsec or in nullsec, losing your ship is not only commonplace, it's to be expected. Whether you rat, mine, haul or PVP, chances are you'll lose your ship every time you undock. For that you need to replenish your wallet on a regular basis.

It's at this point you're effectively saying that the most logical way to do this, isn't to actually live in the space you've fought for, but to run incursions (or, let's be fair, the old ISK workhorse of botting L4s) in hisec, because the chance of losing your ship is much less in hisec, the reward is higher and it's more interesting than anoms. And it's at this point that I ask you, what the **** is the point of being in nullsec then? It certainly doesn't seem to be to create and be part of an independent empire with their own rules.

And how much do you think nullsec will be able to be buffed before people in hisec will start to whine about how nullsec is getting preferential treatment, there's no risk etc? Keep in mind we've had a fucktonne of people go absolutely apeshit over a relatively minor change in PI taxes.

I log on. Move to Incursion - 20minutes

I try to find a group - 20 minutes-30 minutes.

Waiting in a chat room in my Logi clone for me takes effort, effort as I have to advertise and pay attention to possible invites, more effort then Anom ratting at least.
So you're telling us null sec Anoms are more risky then Incursions?

Either way my point which you clearly missed (Obvious troll is obvious) is that null vs high sec doesn't really count here as there clearly isn't more risk in null sec, and that the play style of null sec doesn't suit everyone, so should they make less because of it?

However I do agree that the isk gain in Incursions is a bit high.

Yes, you did. You basically said it was a good thing that players could fund all activities, be it their nullsec PVP or hisec hijinks through hisec incursions.

As to arguments "against hisec incursions"
a) In general.
b) We know nullsec has always had the lesser population compared to hisec, but have you even kept an eye out on the numbers of online people in nullsec prior to, and after the anom nerf? It didn't take long after the anom nerf for whole regions to become empty shells of their former selves. vOv
c) Yes. Have you heard of awoxers?

But, since incursions are fine, what do you propose should be done with nullsec to incentivize people to actually live out there again in pre-anom nerf numbers or higher?

Last i checked low/null sec Incursions sites be it Vanguard, Assault or HQ's, pays better then the same ones in high-sec.
So when did it change, that a group activity in high-sec pays out more, than by doing the same group activity in low/null?

On balance PVE should be about having fun with a group of friends or a group of people who you have never met before....

a+b. why put lucrative area's in null sec when most of the people who sign in into the game are based in high sec...other than to hope people move into null sec?

c. Have you heard of those people who do the same in incursions sites?

Null sec should be about eco systems, territories, defence, offence, treaties in reality people move to null sec is becuase they want chest beating PVP which they want on their door step, Industry these days well is non existant becuase you can 23/7 bot mine in empire

- like you said null sec is empty there are no fleets wanting to travel for long periods of time most fights are occuring in systems for a reason. Looking at todays most violent system is NY5 which i guess is becuase of the level 5 agents around that area...M-O tribute entry point...

Lastly remove the "I win" button.... Null sec was awesome in the days of IAC plenty of targets willing to fight now all i hear is "leave it they will hot drop us"...