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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Amthrianius Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.05 12:44:00 - [31] Edited by: Amthrianius on 05/12/2006 12:43:50 sift probes are slower to scan than the length of time before they expire. Which means they expire before you get results, unless your in a cov ops ship, which you shouldn't "have" to be in for exploration. Originally by: ASCN Member Mr Testy > mabee next year i can meet some bob at fanfest and beat them up
Abbadon Wrath	Posted - 2006.12.05 12:51:00 - [32] Originally by: Amthrianius Edited by: Amthrianius on 05/12/2006 12:43:50 sift probes are slower to scan than the length of time before they expire. Which means they expire before you get results, unless your in a cov ops ship, which you shouldn't "have" to be in for exploration. train signal aqusition, reduces scan time by 5% or 10%
Rath Etzam	Posted - 2006.12.05 13:08:00 - [33] It's been stated before but some kind of general indication, with a probe or something, would be really nice. The current situation does not make exploration anything worth doing. Regarding some indication, I don't bother if I have to work half an hour or hour to finally nail something down, but currently noone knows if to scan the same system again, use different race's probes or move on to another system.
stingOnExit	Posted - 2006.12.05 13:10:00 - [34] Edited by: stingOnExit on 05/12/2006 13:14:55 We have done some missions in the tenal COSMOS complex. The difficulty is like a 10 complex or above. Nice challenge with some nice surpice and new enemies (Kamikaze drones, yay) Your art team has done a very good job. The mission, where you are supposed to get the harvester and/or the skillbook as a reward depends on luck. Some got the items upon completion of the mission, some not. All rats dropped no loot, but thats a known problem.
Sphynx Stormlord Gallente Anqara Industries Serenus Letum	Posted - 2006.12.05 13:46:00 - [35] It would seem somewhat unreasonable that one is frequently not finding anything with exploration. Other indications (eg agent missions) would sugest that each system in empire is teaming with pirates, hidden stargates, roid fields, and other such things.
Nyack GREY COUNCIL Breidablik	Posted - 2006.12.05 14:25:00 - [36] yep some indication when u do scan would be nice.. such as: "no deadspace signature could be found but the scanner picked up some static indicating something is in the system" u still have to do proper scans if there are multiple stuff in the system so just because you found one doesnt imply that it is the only one and seed some low value sites to pay back the probes atleast =)
Chalice Ghant	Posted - 2006.12.05 14:28:00 - [37] So , did I read this thread correctly? Theres a chance of finding the new exploration sites in empire as well as 0.0?
Sykosys Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.12.05 16:36:00 - [38] I have a question regarding probing. Does the probe (Minmatar Frigate) get a bonus for exploration scanning? I knew before kali (Revelations) that the probe was supposed to get a bonus for scanning, but it did not get a bonus for actual moon scanning. I am curious if it is the same with the new probes launchers. Im still 19 days away, but currently training, astro 5.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.05 18:17:00 - [39] Originally by: Amthrianius Edited by: Amthrianius on 05/12/2006 12:43:50 sift probes are slower to scan than the length of time before they expire. Which means they expire before you get results, unless your in a cov ops ship, which you shouldn't "have" to be in for exploration. With signal reduction level 2 and fast fingers you can warp to the result just before the probe expires when using a normal ship ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Okotomi Anki	Posted - 2006.12.05 19:26:00 - [40] Nice thread. So many whiners in one place... Would be nice to blow it up with all of them going to HELL Short summary: 1. Make all probes equal across sensor types 2. Make them find the signature on first scan 3. Make them require only tritanium to buid 4. If there are no signatures in system you should receive a warning when trying to launch an exploration probe 5. Fun in EVE is point and click for all the community but some sickos who enjoy making stupid "effort" to get their reward (obviously, masochists or retards). 6. Almost forgot, lower the skill requirements for exploration probes down to Astrometrics 3, thanks. For those who say exploration system requires no brain but dumb clicking the "analyze" button for hours - YES, YOU WILL NEVER GET ANYTHING FROM EXPLORATION, because you are not suited for this kind of fun. Go run missions then. Preferably old ones. I heard, there are new missions where people getting owned, so ask your corpmates what missions to decline. ===== FOR THE DEVS (you, LeMonde) ======= 1. Since this system is very shady and unclear (for good as ppl mentioned), make sure YOU test it well first. It would be disappointing to get low feedback only because of some bug preventing ppl from exploring properly. Bugged distribution or in-system positioning comes to mind. 2. Make reward match the effort. As people said, in some sites difficulty is harder than 10/10 complex, but reward is obviously crap compared to 10/10. Dont forget you have to find this site first while 10/10 is static and even marked on starmap. I'd say nerf static complexes and boost dynamic ones if the balance is what you are after. 3. Create widely distibuted low-reward easy-to-find alternatives for whiners, let them have a candy (may they choke with it )

Brolly Caldari The Department of Justice	Posted - 2006.12.05 23:50:00 - [41] The idea of spending hours, in the same system, with nothing to do but waiting far from gaming. Is CCP planning on creating the first true masochistic experience online, and who seriously finds waiting for hours and pressing a button fun?. I'm probably comming across a tad snipey but that;s due to poor communication skills , the fact is eve seems to be declining in qaulity . I'm not saying this to flame or troll, I used to love eve but the current mentality of chance based fun is just bizzare. I think it would be better to have a different type based system where you are actually rewarded for some kinda effort. Why not fill some of the levels of failure with filler, then at least those who want a quick fix get something and those who want something greater will wait it out. On the test server I scanned a whole constellation and found nothing, this was obviously very disheartening. Surely you should be leading breadcrumbs to something great, having some communication with the player is a deffinate thing to do. It can be hard to know what you're doing or if you're doing it wrong if there is no communication. Another thought on exploration is that it's not very friendly to people who have little time in which to play. I'm gonna be busy now for 4 months and will have little eve time, why am I excluded from this part of the game. Other will say it's not denied, you just need to keep at it. Imagine having an hour to play eve a night, spending the majority of that painfully waiting in vein is not fun. Exploration could be pretty damn cool, I just wish the old system was used, i.e., find something on scanner, warp closer and reduce scan amount and then mwd to. Atm, the system is too bulky, poorly defined and a massive isk and time sink and you forgot the greatest part of any experience, fun. Before people troll, I do not want brainless swg, wow fun, I like a good challenge but only when it's genuinely challenging. If I had ú1 for every intelligent comment posted in general discussion, I'd be hideously in debt
Sabahl Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.05 23:58:00 - [42] I really only have one comment so far as the system itself seems like a pretty good one. Can you please make the exploration probes themselves smaller? Decrease the scanner probes and launcher volume at the same time if you will, but right now my main problem is that if I want to head into deep space to go probing I must carry multiple copies of sixteen different probe types. Seeing as the scan time is so long my number one ship of choice for the task has got to be a covert ops ship which has PANTS cargo space, and so I am limited to scanning only a few systems before I must head back for supplies. Given the amount of time it takes to probe out a system, the added burdon of repeatedly having to return to base for probe reloads is one I think is a bit too nasty.
Alexander Knott Starlancers	Posted - 2006.12.06 01:18:00 - [43] Originally by: Brolly Is CCP planning on creating the first true masochistic experience online, and who seriously finds waiting for hours and pressing a button fun?. Doesn't that statement also describe levelling in just about every other MMO ever made? ----- "I like to loot, especially going to the can of the battleship, sometimes there is a surprise inside, sometimes there is only carp..."
Lockefox Caldari The Clearwater Society	Posted - 2006.12.06 05:56:00 - [44] gotta say from what I've seen and heard there need to be some adjustments 1) skill: make the skills more similar to other probes and equal to the skill-trees required for COSMOS. 2) info: why not make a feature through either normal probes or the scanner or the special probes to find a "faint celestial signature." Could be a wreck, could be a complex, who knows, but at least it would cut down the time of scanning. 3) I agree with the varying levels of prizes. Give the empire people a few bones to actually make them know it's there and hide real goodies deeper (either in low-sec, 0.0 or low traffic areas). That's my 2isk on the issue, haven't had much time to really devote to testing this out, but with all the negative reports, I don't feel inclined to devote a day to really experimenting. ~Locke
Andy DuFraine Caldari Shinra	Posted - 2006.12.06 06:19:00 - [45] I love this new part of eve, the system is great and its the most fun ive had in a while going thru constellations trying to find hidden plex's/belts etc. 1.The rewards should be greater as signifigant time is being spent searching for theses areas. 2. Astrometrics skill requirement should not have been nerfed (whats done is done) 3 Exploration follow-up missions should be within the same constellation or region. Thanks for the new toys.
Sabahl Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.06 07:33:00 - [46] I would love to see smaller exploration probes scan more quickly than the larger ones. When you have found a deep space signature it is SO annoying having to wait hours until you find exactly the right probe for the job. Case in point, last night I found a signature with a quest probe. So far if has taken me 3 hours with pursuits and I STILL have not found the deadspace signature which I know for a fact is out there. Make the probes like ammo and able to confer bonuses or negatives to the scan launchers. Smaller probes give tweaks to the scanning time.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.06 08:39:00 - [47] Originally by: Sabahl When you have found a deep space signature it is SO annoying having to wait hours until you find exactly the right probe for the job. Tbh closing in on a found signature is pants easy, takes 1 or 2 probes if youre lucky and 3 if youre unlocky. Finding the actual signature is what hurts ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.06 09:01:00 - [48] Originally by: Qual The system seems fine. Once we get Recon Launchers later today, we are home free. Even without them ive got a scan time of about 4 minutes, which give me at least 10 attempts on a quest probe. Sure you then have to hit the right probe time as well to get a real chance. This is fine: The site SHOULD NOT be easy to find. If they where, they would have to not give much bonus as everyone would be doing them. They are not complexes on demand... Recon probe is not usable with exploration probes. And remember that while you are waiting for the scan on exploration, the hunters are scanning YOU.
Sabahl Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.06 09:29:00 - [49] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Sabahl When you have found a deep space signature it is SO annoying having to wait hours until you find exactly the right probe for the job. Tbh closing in on a found signature is pants easy, takes 1 or 2 probes if youre lucky and 3 if youre unlocky. Finding the actual signature is what hurts If I hadn;t been probing around the Wicked Creek COSMOS area I would agree with you. But over the last 24 hours I have found two areas which have either been incredibly difficult (6+ scans) to find with pursuits or else have refused, point blank, to appear on pursuit probes even though they should have been 1.08 AU away according to my quest probing. The first one turned out to be a Bistot roid field. The second....no idea because after wasting 6 pursuit probes, at least one of each of the four varieties, I have STILL not found it. Either pursuit probes do not have the correct scan strengths, the complex moved before I pinpointed it or else the quest probe gave a completely false reading. Going to try again with quest probes this evening and see what happens. Chat me in game this evening, Josh, and lets compare notes.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.06 09:30:00 - [50] You are a bit unfair, let's try to readress your reply: Originally by: Okotomi Anki Nice thread. So many whiners in one place... Would be nice to blow it up with all of them going to HELL Short summary: 1. Make all probes equal across sensor types I find it sensate, currently for a full set you need to bring 16 differents kinds of probes. And whe have no knoledge ot the possible tipes of signal from the different targets. The other solution will be to give at least an approximate indication of the different target for the different probes, so that it is possible to bring only the ones for the class of targets we are seeking. Originally by: Okotomi Anki 2. Make them find the signature on first scan No one asked that. Some asked for a "possible target" signal. Originally by: Okotomi Anki 3. Make them require only tritanium to buid Again no one asked that. A different thing is that the cost of producing the probes must be commensurate to the chance of finding something. My first set of probes costed about 55K each to produce, but the next will be higher as the strontium clatrates have almost dubled. Good for the ice miners, but it means that a basic scan of a system cost at least 250K in long range probes, 1 million if you want to use all 4 racial kinds. If I need to scan 10 system before finding something, it should be worth the time and materials used. Originally by: Okotomi Anki 4. If there are no signatures in system you should receive a warning when trying to launch an exploration probe No, it was after the first scan. I am a bit dubious too if it will be a good idea. Originally by: Okotomi Anki 5. Fun in EVE is point and click for all the community but some sickos who enjoy making stupid "effort" to get their reward (obviously, masochists or retards). Most of the effort is getting to the system in low sec, dodging hunters, sitting there for 1 hour waiting the results of multiple scans is mostly unalleviated boredoom (unalleviated as you can't go AFK, as you can be scanned and attaccked at every moment - and no, I am not even suggesting to go AFK while scanning). Originally by: Okotomi Anki 6. Almost forgot, lower the skill requirements for exploration probes down to Astrometrics 3, thanks. Have been done and it was right - the high skill probes must be those more precise and those for hunting ships. Originally by: Okotomi Anki 1. Since this system is very shady and unclear (for good as ppl mentioned), make sure YOU test it well first. It would be disappointing to get low feedback only because of some bug preventing ppl from exploring properly. Bugged distribution or in-system positioning comes to mind. A bit blunt but right. BTW the signals are still moving if you change session? Originally by: Okotomi Anki 2. Make reward match the effort. As people said, in some sites difficulty is harder than 10/10 complex, but reward is obviously crap compared to 10/10. Dont forget you have to find this site first while 10/10 is static and even marked on starmap. I'd say nerf static complexes and boost dynamic ones if the balance is what you are after. To add sometime the person finding the site will be a explorer thinking to sell the bookmark, in an exploration ship, not a fighting one. Originally by: Okotomi Anki 3. Create widely distibuted low-reward easy-to-find alternatives for whiners, let them have a candy (may they choke with it ) I have a candy tooth, so feel free to do that.

DrRockIT Caldari Asgard Schiffswerften Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.06 11:49:00 - [51] We did one of those secret 0.0 Deadspace 2 days ago which seemed a bit bugged. There where 2 stages, first one with a jumpgate surrounded by a forcefield and a POS + NPCs. We killed the NPCs, the force field and the POS to unlock the gate to the 2nd stage. There was a stronghold + some more NPCs. We killed the NPCs and the stronghold and shortly before his structure was gone a message in local told us that there will be one last wave of defence from the stronghold now....But nothing happened.. the stronghold didnt dropped something good and there was no wreck with nice stuff inside. just the standart T1 loot and a few rare rigcomponents. Can u plz check this mission in terms of Loot and if theres a bug which prevents the last wave to appear?
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.06 12:02:00 - [52] Originally by: Sabahl Either pursuit probes do not have the correct scan strengths, the complex moved before I pinpointed it or else the quest probe gave a completely false reading. Going to try again with quest probes this evening and see what happens. Chat me in game this evening, Josh, and lets compare notes. I wonder what scan types should be used on what complexes, i originally i assumed it was location based, ie complexes in minmatar thukker and angel space would user ladar probes. If its random then thats a pretty big pain in the ass though ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Rath Etzam	Posted - 2006.12.06 12:14:00 - [53] btw, can anyone confirm that you loose your probes on CTD? It was on test server, funny thing I could find my own probes with the new probes I deployed. Happened with Quest probes with still over 45 minutes remaining. On TQ, over 250K isk loss...
April Knox Caldari Trinity Nova	Posted - 2006.12.06 12:36:00 - [54] Salvaging requirements were lowered. Lower the skill requirements for exploration probes down to Astrometrics 3 as well! The opinions expressed here are my own, and in no way they represent Trinity Nova's.
Pantheon Lea Farmer Boyz	Posted - 2006.12.06 13:03:00 - [55] Originally by: April Knox Salvaging requirements were lowered. Lower the skill requirements for exploration probes down to Astrometrics 3 as well! If you try to spend some time ingame you would have noticed that the patch yesterday did just that. or maybe not... Pantheon Lea
Sabahl Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.06 13:10:00 - [56] One thing that annoys me is the dearth of information as to how exploration sites themselves have been implemented. Without the player written guide submitted in the modules forum I am guessing hardly anyone would have a clue as to how to search for these sites or how rare they may be. I think everyone would love to know the following... 1. What is the chance that a system will contain an exploration site? 2. If the answer to 1 is less than 100%, how often do exploration sites get relocated/respawn?
Fafer Jazz Associates R i s e	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:44:00 - [57] Edited by: Fafer on 06/12/2006 14:43:32 I still don't get racial probes. I've found a complex with gravimetric quest and signal strength was 0.066. Then i dropped magnetometric quest and signal strength was same although, it dropped me 0.5AU closer. Later, it turned out to be serpentis provincial hq. Shouldn't serpentis sites have strongest magnetometric signal? And btw, that site is just a killer. Double tanked absolution warped in with support cruiser heavily tanking him. Absolution was killed in 15 seconds (not by lag, but by rats). Awesome. Some 10-15 bs wrecking up to 300 damage perfect shots, along with cruisers and scrambling frigs as support. Don't know if my alliance mates finished it later, i went to bed. One more thing about it: i got 0.13 signal strength with sift probe on this one, but on drone complex i found earlier i got 0.16 signal strength with quest probe. does signal strength depends on complex difficulty? So far my opinion: - do not change complex spawn chance - do not change complex difficulties - do not change escalation path chance - make rewards a bit better - remove all static 10/10, 9/10 and 8/10 complexes!!! - make good documentation regarding probe racial types and complexes I'll keep exploring. Great idea CCP
Lena Carebear	Posted - 2006.12.06 16:03:00 - [58] Edited by: Lena Carebear on 06/12/2006 16:04:04 Originally by: Fafer So far my opinion: - do not change complex spawn chance - do not change complex difficulties - do not change escalation path chance - make rewards a bit better - remove all static 10/10, 9/10 and 8/10 complexes!!! - make good documentation regarding probe racial types and complexes I'll keep exploring. Great idea CCP / Signed But i prefer to Convert all Complexes above 2/10 to non Static hidden Complexes . Realy nice idea but the revards must be balanced.
MicroNova BSoD Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.06 16:20:00 - [59] So far I have made all my attempts in Oimmo (.5) while flying an Anathema with the Scan Probe Launcher (duh) and all four flavors of the quest probes. I have Astrometrics 4, Astrometric Pinpointing 1, Astrometric Triangulation 1, and Signal Acquisition 3. #1 - Individually launched all 4 flavors of Quest Probes from a BM nowhere near any astral body. Scanned for everything except Salvage. Found nothing that would fall under "cosmic signature" however I did find several mission runners and their ships, as well as a few POS's. #2 - Using a planet as a starting point, made three BM's that allowed me to launch 4 of the differing flavors of 4au Quest Probes simultaneously, I was able to get two to overlap each other. Scanned for everything except salvage. Found no cosmic signatures, but lots of shuttles and some cans. I'm ok with spending some time to develop my understanding of how this should work, in other words, I don't need the game to tell me I didn't find anything when I can analyze the scanner and the map to determine it myself. (Having the scan tab flash red when the scan probes are done would be a nice feature, I don't want a pop-up box that gets in the way.) Things that I think I am doing right - 1) Using all four types of probes to scan the same area over and over. 2) Starting with Quest Probes and working my way down (well if I ever find anything to use the shorter range probes on). 3) Scanning in Empire. Things that I think I am doing wrong - 1) Trying to scan from BM's out in open space. 2) Scanning for more than Cosmic Signature (its nice to get something back from my time spent though). In the process of moving about, launching probes, scanning and cloaking I somehow lost a pile of Magnetometric Probes. I think this occurred when I tried to switch types while cloaked, the launcher unloads but they disappear. I filed a petition on it, has anyone else had this happen? I would experiment more but its like lighting isk on fire. Once a complex or asteroid field is found, is there a timer that starts to countdown before the event disappears, like with missions and offers? My corp often schedules our lvl 4 missions based on how much time is left before the mission offer runs out. It would be a nice addition if it doesn't exist, then if we find something we don't really want to broach, we could offer a contract for the BM or a spur or passcard that lets the buyer into the plex.
Okotomi Anki	Posted - 2006.12.06 16:44:00 - [60] Originally by: Venkul Mul You are a bit unfair, let's try to readress your reply: Man, the first part of that post was meant to be pure sarcasm. What i have tried to say (no sarcasm this time): 1. There are some features we are unable to test if system is bugged. Let me explain: if you find one sig per 30 systems this could mean: (A) the distribution is meant to be so sparse or (B) in-system positioning is bugged and most signatures are just outside of reasonable range or (C) both. No way we could figure this out by ourselves. 2. Rewards are crap either by design or by bug. Of course, one could say "you're not supposed to get uber loot from every complex run". Sure, but the complex is static, there no other way to vary the reward (i.e. create jackpot) but make it random. Dynamic complexes are another story. You can match the reward to the difficulty of finding and running them, making it way less random. 3. No need to nerf the difficulty of finding. People complaining about dumb clicking are doing just that - dumbly clicking the button. They have no idea how to speed up the process. Let them be, dullness is ethernal state. All we can do is to create "adapted" content for them to be happy. 4. No need to give people the knowledge of whether the sig in the system or not. Giving this knowledge you remove the very mystics of exploration. When you leave the system after several hours of unsuccessfull scanning, you should have the "maybe i just didnt search well enough" kind of feeling. 5. No need to lower the cost of probes. 3m isk for a single system search is nothing. But it is insignificant matter, indeed, so drop the whiners another bone if you wish. 6. No need to lower skill requirements. We dont need every noob running around with cheap probes doing "exploration". Noobs have other important things to do, like learning what inertia stabilizer is for. 7. For testing purposes you could install current TQ build on SiSi with DS signatures enabled on directional scanner, would be enough for clearing alot of speculation about sig distribution and positioning.



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