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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16830
|
Posted - 2015.08.07 21:22:01 -
[61] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Also, can we get the difference between GÇ£lessGÇ¥ and GÇ£fewerGÇ¥ right, please?
Hopefully
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Jacob Gault
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.08.07 21:28:28 -
[62] - Quote
You know it be good if more plex cards get seed help keep the cost around 1b and under! You can't tell me people will stop selling them if they stay around 1b.
Or.
CCP could do a bigger plex sale hoping to flood the market with more of them.. I would like to see them go for $10 a pop.. I bet it would flood the markert hard.. only would do it for 30 day with limit of 1 per account being sold.. just idea |

Hal Morsh
Delusions of Granduer Two Drink Minimum
371
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Posted - 2015.08.07 21:41:13 -
[63] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Also, can we get the difference between GÇ£lessGÇ¥ and GÇ£fewerGÇ¥ right, please?
A thumbs down button would solve so many of your issues. Figure that one out.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25532
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Posted - 2015.08.07 21:42:14 -
[64] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:Tippia wrote:Also, can we get the difference between GÇ£lessGÇ¥ and GÇ£fewerGÇ¥ right, please? A thumbs down button would solve so many of your issues. Figure that one out. Cry more. Countable and uncountable words is not rocket surgery.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
890
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Posted - 2015.08.07 21:51:29 -
[65] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:Malcanis wrote:At the end of the day, I think CCP are going to be confronted with the necessity of lowering their price point. It may seem counter-intuitive, but they're better off with 15 customers paying $10 each than they are with 10 customers paying $15 each. And not just a bit better - a lot better off. Also ingame. CCP doesn't control the price ingame. A price reduction ingame would be a side effect of what Malcanis is proposing. |

Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
452
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Posted - 2015.08.07 21:56:24 -
[66] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Nicolai Serkanner wrote:Malcanis wrote:At the end of the day, I think CCP are going to be confronted with the necessity of lowering their price point. It may seem counter-intuitive, but they're better off with 15 customers paying $10 each than they are with 10 customers paying $15 each. And not just a bit better - a lot better off. Also ingame. CCP doesn't control the price ingame. A price reduction ingame would be a side effect of what Malcanis is proposing.
I didn't say what exact effect the price would have ingame, only better ;)
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
8949
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Posted - 2015.08.07 22:02:09 -
[67] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Hal Morsh wrote:Tippia wrote:Also, can we get the difference between GÇ£lessGÇ¥ and GÇ£fewerGÇ¥ right, please? A thumbs down button would solve so many of your issues. Figure that one out. Cry more. Countable and uncountable words is not rocket surgery. Just yesterday I did surgery on a live atomic bomb while passing the time waiting for FO4 to be released by playing FO3.
No rocket surgery of late, though.
Mr Epeen 
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Panthe3 Black
The Branded Few Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2015.08.08 02:53:32 -
[68] - Quote
come on 2b pr plex woot watch my wallet grow |

Daerrol
Krieger Industries Inc. Phoebe Freeport Republic
219
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Posted - 2015.08.08 03:04:59 -
[69] - Quote
I found 3 Paycheques while cleaning m car today. Going to PLEX me a new Carrier/Marauder/Dread tonight. #noshame #don'tbejelly |

Lulu Lunette
Custodes Olim United Systems of Aridia
67
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Posted - 2015.08.08 03:06:33 -
[70] - Quote
So much for a PLEX now
@lunettelulu7
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Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
56
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Posted - 2015.08.08 03:31:04 -
[71] - Quote
Ioci wrote:They were floating around a billion just before the ISBox policy changes too.
Many threads were made.
Then they died. Only absolute morons were paying "around 1b" for plex before the REPEATER policy change.
I was still buying daily for 830m AT MOST during that era. So I never really saw a drop in prices.
Mr Epeen wrote:That's the problem right there, in my opinion. Remember when a million was huge? I do. I was over the moon when my wallet hit 100m. And I earned it. I didn't buy it from CCP. Then came PLEX. CCP's answer to attracting all those millennials coming of age into the game. Now a billion is nothing. I feel barely adequate with my current worth of around 140b. What a failed experiment PLEX turned out to be for actual gamers. Great for CCP, though, so it's here to stay. Unfortunately. Mr Epeen  Far from being a failure for the gamers. If nothing else once PLex was introduced gold spammers pretty much vanished.
I would argue there are plenty of other things that could be listed as being good for the playerbase but what would be the point? |

Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
365
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Posted - 2015.08.08 04:23:55 -
[72] - Quote
Someone told me once - oh boy these officier gear is so dqmn expensive do to rare factor... hmm this damn plex like dirt is almost everywhere but cost higher than some of the officier mods already.
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Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
51
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Posted - 2015.08.08 04:51:41 -
[73] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:At the end of the day, I think CCP are going to be confronted with the necessity of lowering their price point. It may seem counter-intuitive, but they're better off with 15 customers paying $10 each than they are with 10 customers paying $15 each. And not just a bit better - a lot better off. 15$ for a PLEX? PLEX costs 20Gé¼ (~ 21$ at the moment) here. A few years ago, when Euro was worth more, it was almost ~30$ for PLEX.
Where can you get it for 15$? |

Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32157
|
Posted - 2015.08.08 08:01:07 -
[74] - Quote
A six pack from the CCP store, from a US ip address.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2015.08.08 09:29:25 -
[75] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:At the end of the day, I think CCP are going to be confronted with the necessity of lowering their price point. It may seem counter-intuitive, but they're better off with 15 customers paying $10 each than they are with 10 customers paying $15 each. And not just a bit better - a lot better off. That's 5 more who might buy Aurum, for one.
A signature :o
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
61
|
Posted - 2015.08.08 11:06:42 -
[76] - Quote
Adriana Nolen wrote:I'm sure all of us are space rich but 
I don't see what the issue is, the players set the price. |

Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
72
|
Posted - 2015.08.08 11:30:10 -
[77] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:TL;DR too much salt i am sure.. but my response to these is the same..
So?
You can make 1b isk in about 4 hours in a c4 wormhole. If you and another friend run it you can make more.
It really is not hat hard to make 1b isk.
1 bill plex prices aren't the problem. It's how fast the prices rose to that amount that is raising alarms of a Plex Inflation. At this rate the plex prices are gonna hit the 2 bill mark by the end of this year.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
72
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Posted - 2015.08.08 11:43:43 -
[78] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Tippia wrote:Wohoo! More cash for less. \o/ Daniela Doran wrote:Wrong! People will stop plexing and either quit because too expensive or pay the 3 months/6months package from account management. Either way is bad because the rising plex prices is due to the rapid decline in subscribers and this is still summer. Makes you wonder what's gonna happen to eve when school starts. Do you have any actual numbers on that decline? And have you taken into account the regular player activity behaviour during summer and early autumn? Also keep in mind the bulk of the playerbase is in their 30's here. Some 60% I think it was. 10-15% in their 40's. ~25% in their 20's. A large percentage of players according to CCP are into tech, computer related, IT jobs. Why does it matter when school starts? So wrong on so many things, Dan.
I'm just going by the rise in number of online users I see during the summer versus the school semesters. In summer of 2013 during peak times the online numbers was around 42k - 50k versus an average of 28k-34k during peak time school months. This summer during peak times the online numbers is around 27k-33k versus an average of 17k-22k during peak time school months. With this trend it's safe to assume that more younger people from ages 17-25 play eve more in the summer time. |

Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
61
|
Posted - 2015.08.08 11:45:24 -
[79] - Quote
Tackninja wrote:Quote:no my rl money doesnt really get taxed for sitting around so neither should my plex its like people investing in gold irl, plex is new eden gold Actually it does. It is a type of capital gains tax. But still, EVE is not "real" world. So them applying a tax is plausible and would potentially help lower PLEX costs.
Don't see the point, they're just an in-game item so shouldn't be treated any differently.
There will be a point at which people are not prepared to buy them and then you will reach a level of more stability. Although it may be difficult to see when it reaches that point if a lot of players are buying them to hang on to them to make a profit. But that's the risk they take. |

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2352
|
Posted - 2015.08.08 11:55:40 -
[80] - Quote
As long as plex investors are allowed to drive the price of plex sales, they will continue to rise in price simply due to the actions of the investors. This is irregardless of any kind of supply & demand equation. Much like house prices rise despite not actually creating anything new simply because someone bought them and sold them three months later. The investors have control of the market and a steady rise in price with the odd price crash suits them perfectly. |

Salvos Rhoska
1244
|
Posted - 2015.08.08 12:02:08 -
[81] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:DaReaper wrote:TL;DR too much salt i am sure.. but my response to these is the same..
So?
You can make 1b isk in about 4 hours in a c4 wormhole. If you and another friend run it you can make more.
It really is not hat hard to make 1b isk. 1 bill plex prices aren't the problem. It's how fast the prices rose to that amount that is raising alarms of a Plex Inflation. At this rate the plex prices are gonna hit the 2 bill mark by the end of this year.
This is countermanded by the fact the higher value of PLEX rises in isk, the more incentive there is for players to RLM them to earn isk ingame.
You are correct that if the trend contiuned without that consideration, it would rise above 2b, but unless a cartel of PLEX holders managed to deliberately and at great effort shoehorn PLEX sales in at incremental values in each hub, PLEX will still enter the market from independants buying PLEX tonsell at isk value, and each unit the cartel sells would help match demand.
What concerns me more, is identifying and quantifying the largest PLEX consumers ingame. To my mind, this includes four groups:
-Multibox Miners, which are very sensitive to PLEX price changes in direct relation to how much ISK they can earn with them in accordance with mineral/ice prices in a given 30day period. This is the easiest to analyze. When the cost of PLEXing exceeds whatthe miner alt can produce in a month, they drop the account, leading to less demand. And not just for one multi-boxing miner, but ALL of them, at once, unless they are interested in training that toon at a loss while mining for aome other future purpose. Miners desubbing accounts should reduce demand, and lower prices. -Multitraining accounts, which is the province mostly of old and extremely rich vets, for whom the game itself has become a means to an end in terms of having pilots to do what they want with. These players are not sensitive to any ingame cost of any resource, merely CCP changes and their own enthusiasm with the game overall. -Persons who buy/sell characters. Their influence is difficult to guage owing to the sometimes astronomical costs and the ambiguity of tracing their activity. Nonetheless, PLEX sales run commensurate both as a means for them to raise capital to increase their stable by purchase of saleable capsuleers to sell for profit, but also indirectly in the sales of PLEX for other players raising capital to purchase those pilots from them. -And finally, the mythical PLEX traders. Do they exist? How organised and deliberate are they? Their ability to manipulate the market should be marginal as detailed above earlier, but there is a critical mass beyond which they can, at horrific temporary losses, raise prices high enough to recoup those losses by dumping at a certain threshold.
Sum total of these influences the price of PLEX, as the largest coherent groups of PLEX consumers and suppliers to the market.
My own gut conclusion, is the higher PLEX prices rise, the more an indication it is of less active accounts, in almost every instance, considering all variables. This is corroborated by looking at public and available server population figures.
Two caveats on a 1 year window from 2014: -Industry changes: Especially salvage/mineral conversion rates. This should have reduced inflation, and slowed PLEX price rises. Either this has resulted then either in people unsubbing, or, indirectly isk being invested elsewhere than in PLEXing an account. -Sov changes now: By reading of feedback, it seems many people have cut back on maintaining multiple accounts, which again should have resulted in less demand for PLEX and reduced prices.
Considering those, perhaps the inverse of my previous conclusion makes more sense in terms of account behavior. That current population is dumping isk into PLEX, rather than subbing. Which typically means they are on their way out, and no longer as confident in the games future, and expending ingame resources rather than RLM.
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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
334
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Posted - 2015.08.14 11:42:31 -
[82] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:In economic theory there is something called Giffen good (good, as in "goods and services"). These are goods which have a reversed supply-demand curve. That is, an increase in price results in a decrease in supply. It is possible that the PLEX is a Giffen good. To see how this could be, first let me recast what I mean by "the price of the PLEX".
Consider how much Real Money I need to buy, say, 10 billion ISK via PLEX. As the ISK value of the PLEX increases, the price, in Real Money, of 10 billion ISK decreases. Normally one would expect this to increase the demand for PLEX. As the Real Money cost of 10 billion ISK drops, more players will opt to make the purchase. But if the PLEX is a Giffen good, then the reverse happens. The mechanism may be:
The number of people who would want a supercap is limited by the number of characters who have skills to fly them, not the super's price. Dropping the price of supers will have only a small effect on their demand. (I'm assuming a player does not want spare supers sitting about, they want most every one logged off in space with a pilot sitting in it.)
A player with little ISK can buy a super by using Real Money to buy PLEX, selling the PLEX for ISK and buying the super. As the ISK value of a PLEX increases, the number of PLEX the player need buy goes down. Increased ISK price leads to a reduced supply of PLEX. (Or, to put it another way, the decreasing price of ISK leads to decreasing demand for PLEX). This makes the PLEX a Giffen good.
A numerical example:
Say the ISK price of the PLEX increases by 10%. Any player deciding to make a big purchase now needs to buy 10% fewer PLEX. Lets say as a result of the better price, 5% more players decide to make such a purchase. Yes, the total players buying PLEX increases, and the total ISK bought increases, but as each now buys fewer PLEX, the total supply of PLEX goes down. Again, we have a Giffen good.
What this means for CCP: The increasing ISK value of the PLEX would reduce revenue, and hence is not in CCPGÇÖs best interest.
Your definition of a Giffen good is wrong. With a Giffen good, when prices go up, consumers buy even more, which is unintuitive, hence it's also called Giffen paradox. This has nothing to do with supply of the good in question. Supply in the case of a Giffen good behaves according to the standard model of supply-demand.
A good example of the Giffen effect I found on the internet:
A person has a daily budget of 3Gé¼ for lunch. He/She buys a piece of bread for 1Gé¼ and meat for 2Gé¼. Now the price of bread goes up to 1.50Gé¼. The person is still at his/her 3Gé¼ budget and therefore rather buys 2 pieces of bread and no meat.
The bread is the Giffen good. Normally the price hike should have brought lower demand. But since bread is food and therefore an essential product, we can not skip it. We could replace it with something else that is food, but the meat is too expensive. So within our budget we buy more bread despite the price increase.
I can't comment on the PLEX since I can't get enough data (I'm on a break from eve for more than a year now). I just couldn't let people with a wrong impression of what a Giffen good is.
Also, can someone explain what this thread is about?-á (Relax ! I'm just quoting Holgrak Blacksmith here.)
When life gives you lemons, swap letters and poof: melons, solemn melons.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
3204
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 12:16:20 -
[83] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:DaReaper wrote:TL;DR too much salt i am sure.. but my response to these is the same..
So?
You can make 1b isk in about 4 hours in a c4 wormhole. If you and another friend run it you can make more.
It really is not hat hard to make 1b isk. 1 bill plex prices aren't the problem. It's how fast the prices rose to that amount that is raising alarms of a Plex Inflation. At this rate the plex prices are gonna hit the 2 bill mark by the end of this year. Also, not everyone has a non-interrupted access to a darn C4 WH.
Nope , but everyone has acces to the high-sec markets .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Mehashi 'Kho
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
158
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 16:31:35 -
[84] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:irregardless
On topic, I'd buy plex on a bit more of a whim if our european prices were nearly as good as the us deals. Instead I sub as it's dramatically cheaper and spend a few days each month grinding for isk to spend, around 1 bil play-money each month. If plex were closer to sub prices I'd be buying plexes (1 per account) and selling them on the market so I could just play my fave gameplay without any grinding.
That cost disparity really becomes noticeable at 4 accounts as I have, or more as I know others have. Just throwing in my own personal reason why I'm not buying plexes despite being part of the target market of people who would rather pay for the convenience of a full wallet. |

Vauss Dutan
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 03:01:40 -
[85] - Quote
I logged in about a month ago using the 4 hours to buy a plex. I had 800mil, I'll get a plex I thought. Nope. |

Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32170
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 03:23:30 -
[86] - Quote
At the least, you have a reason to petition for your hours for PLEX reset.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3623
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 21:53:36 -
[87] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:In economic theory there is something called Giffen good (good, as in "goods and services"). These are goods which have a reversed supply-demand curve. That is, an increase in price results in a decrease in supply. It is possible that the PLEX is a Giffen good. To see how this could be, first let me recast what I mean by "the price of the PLEX".
Consider how much Real Money I need to buy, say, 10 billion ISK via PLEX. As the ISK value of the PLEX increases, the price, in Real Money, of 10 billion ISK decreases. Normally one would expect this to increase the demand for PLEX. As the Real Money cost of 10 billion ISK drops, more players will opt to make the purchase. But if the PLEX is a Giffen good, then the reverse happens. The mechanism may be:
The number of people who would want a supercap is limited by the number of characters who have skills to fly them, not the super's price. Dropping the price of supers will have only a small effect on their demand. (I'm assuming a player does not want spare supers sitting about, they want most every one logged off in space with a pilot sitting in it.)
A player with little ISK can buy a super by using Real Money to buy PLEX, selling the PLEX for ISK and buying the super. As the ISK value of a PLEX increases, the number of PLEX the player need buy goes down. Increased ISK price leads to a reduced supply of PLEX. (Or, to put it another way, the decreasing price of ISK leads to decreasing demand for PLEX). This makes the PLEX a Giffen good.
A numerical example:
Say the ISK price of the PLEX increases by 10%. Any player deciding to make a big purchase now needs to buy 10% fewer PLEX. Lets say as a result of the better price, 5% more players decide to make such a purchase. Yes, the total players buying PLEX increases, and the total ISK bought increases, but as each now buys fewer PLEX, the total supply of PLEX goes down. Again, we have a Giffen good.
What this means for CCP: The increasing ISK value of the PLEX would reduce revenue, and hence is not in CCPGÇÖs best interest. Your definition of a Giffen good is wrong. With a Giffen good, when prices go up, consumers buy even more, which is unintuitive, hence it's also called Giffen paradox. This has nothing to do with supply of the good in question. Supply in the case of a Giffen good behaves according to the standard model of supply-demand. A good example of the Giffen effect I found on the internet: A person has a daily budget of 3Gé¼ for lunch. He/She buys a piece of bread for 1Gé¼ and meat for 2Gé¼. Now the price of bread goes up to 1.50Gé¼. The person is still at his/her 3Gé¼ budget and therefore rather buys 2 pieces of bread and no meat. The bread is the Giffen good. Normally the price hike should have brought lower demand. But since bread is food and therefore an essential product, we can not skip it. We could replace it with something else that is food, but the meat is too expensive. So within our budget we buy more bread despite the price increase. I can't comment on the PLEX since I can't get enough data (I'm on a break from eve for more than a year now). I just couldn't let people with a wrong impression of what a Giffen good is. Yeah, its not a perfect use of the term. But here is what I was trying to say:
Giffen good: When the price goes up, demand goes up. Conversely: When price goes down, demand goes down. In Eve: The price of ISK is going down. That is the amount of real money needed to buy a big block of ISK is dropping, ISK is getting cheaper. So what's happening to the demand for ISK? Well, we cannot really buy ISK, we buy PLEX, and it could well be that the demand for PLEX is going down due to the drop in price of ISK. Now, that's not really a proper use of the term "Giffen good". But my point I made in my first post remains: The decreasing cost of ISK is causing a reduction in the demand for PLEX. Normally you would expect the opposite. If you get more ISK per PLEX, you would expect the number of PLEX sold by CCP to increase. But is may well be the opposite is in fact occurring.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
966
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 21:55:28 -
[88] - Quote
All I can say is that I'm ISKlovin' it.
Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.
I invented Tiericide
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Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
117
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 22:50:53 -
[89] - Quote
One month later. 1.1B isk. Da fuq |

TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1254
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 23:01:37 -
[90] - Quote
Keep on risin' baby.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
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