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Kinsy
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.01.11 14:59:00 -
[31]
Anyone else reaching for their tinfoil hat off this bob pets posting?
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Kinsy
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.01.11 14:59:00 -
[32]
Anyone else reaching for their tinfoil hat off this bob pets posting?
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Kalmanaka
The Graduates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.11 15:09:00 -
[33]
A long time ago when people weren't very smart yet, they used to associate things they didn't like or understand with some strange Deity that we now know wasn't real but was just dumb people being creatively ignorant.
Like if some goat herder's daughter got struck by lightning, everyone thought it was because she upset Zeus. Or like if some other goat herder reads some post on eve-o and blames it on BoB.....
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Kalmanaka
The Graduates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.11 15:09:00 -
[34]
A long time ago when people weren't very smart yet, they used to associate things they didn't like or understand with some strange Deity that we now know wasn't real but was just dumb people being creatively ignorant.
Like if some goat herder's daughter got struck by lightning, everyone thought it was because she upset Zeus. Or like if some other goat herder reads some post on eve-o and blames it on BoB.....
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n sx
The Tidemark
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.11 15:23:00 -
[35]
Honestly .... a noble gesture.
Personally, if you knew how many offline POS' they've left around the place you would hold onto your ISK and use it for something usefull.
Since you posted this thread we've removed a few, your donation would be as good as GONE. 
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solarwinds
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.11 16:32:00 -
[36]
 Originally by: elchief
We were once close friends and i personally like a lot of the iss around here ot was the odd strange one that bugged me.
I don't shoot IAC pilots because I hate them, I only shoot them because they're red to me. 'Tis the way of the soldier, nothing more, nothing less. I remember plenty of good natured local chats with IAC pilots and neutrality be damned, I certainly considered them friends. 
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Mattduk
Gallente
Universal Army
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Posted - 2007.01.11 16:34:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Nekumi
Originally by: Layla
DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions given in this post are entirely personal and should not be construed as reflecting those of my corporation, alliance or associates.
The Eve Universe as a whole owes ISS an immense debt for showing that investment by individual players can be used to bring something large and worthwhile into being. The ideals of ISS remain honorable and true to this day. The detractors of ISS may decry the detail of how ISS achieves their aim of opening up 0.0 to the Eve population, but I know that ISS has achieved its aims and paid billions in premiums to its share-holders in the process.
I see ISS as one of the few positive, progressive and exciting concepts within the Eve Universe. I would hate to see that destroyed.
I would like to pay something back to ISS in this, their hour of need. I shall be donating 500 million isk to an ISS Management character to help them in their current conflict.
I would like to invite other members of the Eve community to do the same.
This is not an "official" ISS post, nor has it even been cleared by their management. I am not associated with ISS. I have some shares, but I am not trying to revive their worth. I am trying in the only way I can to support an organisation which has far more positive aspects in Eve than its current detractors give it credit for.
I hope other players will join me in supporting ISS so that it can continue to be a positive force within Eve.
I think it's been established that throwing money at a problem won't solve it. What a waste of half a billion isk.
Crass generalisation that is often untrue. If I have a bill I need to pay, and no money to pay it, I have a problem, no? Throw some money at me, and I can now pay the bill, said problem eradicated.
However, if you still don't believe me, let me prove it once you've emptied your wallet into mine :P
Back on topic though, leave the poor fella alone.
I liked the idea of ISS, but I don't know enough, like most of the posters here, to comment on whether they are corrupt, clean, or otherwise. Rumor has it they contracted Contraband Inc. against our Alliance back in early 2006, but until it can be proven I have to give them the benefit of the doubt. That said, either this community is blessed with oodles of sheep, or ISS sure did upset a few. My opinion is that it is a combination of both.
Kind regards
Mattduk
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Sienis
Standard Operations Building Services
Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.11 16:41:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Sienis on 11/01/2007 16:38:29
Edited by: Sienis on 11/01/2007 16:38:12
Originally by: elchief
To be perfectly honest i do feel sorry for iss at the moment. We were once close friends and i personally like a lot of the iss around here ot was the odd strange one that bugged me.
However i do believe it what iss initially set out to acomplish and i do not believe there dreams are dead as of yet. They still control a couple of stations and im sure they can rebuild..
Dont pity them im sure they dont want it, Give them time to regroup im sure this sint the end of iss  i for one look forward to hearing/seeing/fighting them in the future
its good to see that there are still people on these forums that dont follow the "i smack at everything i can find" trend! i hope iac wont throw u out now :P
honestly, how ridiculous is it to hate a virtual entity ? kinda sad...
(my opinion not the one of corps bla bla bla yada yada yada)
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.11 18:14:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Mattduk
Rumor has it they contracted Contraband Inc. against our Alliance back in early 2006, but until it can be proven I have to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Well, for what it's worth, I'd like to make the assertion that ISS didn't do that. Now, given my position, that's a biased post, but ... well more rationally, what would have been the point? Contrary to popular belief, ISS isn't a rich alliance, and never has been. We've never been rich enough to hire mercs on a whim, and it's only under serious threat that we've done so.
And many thanks to the OP, for your support. (Moral or otherwise).
I'd like to re-assure everyone that the situation with the Marginis project isn't just plain sunk.
There will be a shareholder meeting about ... well recent events. If you have shares in ... I think it's any of the outposts, but certainly Cassini, Marginis or Borealis, you should have an EVEmail about it.
It may sound stupid, when 'hahaha, screw you all' is an option, but the ISS takes the trust the investors placed in us very seriously indeed. That's not just empty words. We've worked very hard for the last 20 months (yes, it has been that long since Marginis was built) to build a reputation for honest dealing with our shareholders. All along, there's been plenty of opportunities to 'take the money and run', but ... well to be perfectly honest, that's just not why we're playing EVE.
Speaking just for myself, I _want_ to build stuff. I want to make cool and interesting things happen. I think ISS can claim credit for the public outpost, and serving as the 'starting point' for a stockmarket. Seeing EGSE and it's brokers trading ISS funds is just so unbelievably cool, that I have to rub my eyes each time I look at it. It's a far cry from where we started, but ... well it's _long_ way from over yet.
I won't deny that the assault on our outpost projects is something I'm not overly happy about. I've personally put a lot of effort into the construction and development of those. But for all those declaring "The End of ISS" and that we should be ripping off our investors, and heading back to empire?
Not a chance. We're not dead yet.
The ISS is, and has always been different from a normal alliance. We're only an 'Alliance' because that's the best way that EVE represents what we're wanting to do. The ISS is not a sum of ISK. It's not an Outpost. It's not even the sum of all it's outposts, and it's 0.0 access. It's the people in it, and the vision they believe in.
Look at Pure Blind and Catch now. When ISS first set up it's service stations, they were pretty much miserable wastelands. Bits were worth it, but large chunks were only populated by the very occasional NPCer. Now look today. That's all changed. I still hold out hope for the future of the projects there, although accept that that's going to take the co-operation of people who have expressed a certain amount of hostility towards ISS. But regardless of what the future holds, they've been a total success. They've served to transform a bit of barren empty 0.0 into a real place to live.
It's very easy, when faced with large numbers of hostiles, to lose sight of the vision. To get bogged down in the 'omg they swarmed us'. I've done it a few times over the last few weeks, and have had a few thoughts of going and trying to learn how to pirate, and work out the grudges. But then I remember, when there's those who post stuff about how they like something, anything that ISS has done for EVE, and remember why we started. Where the idea came from, and all we _have_ done since ISS was formed.
That's an idea, and ideas cannot die.
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Xrak
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.11 18:32:00 -
[40]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Mattduk
Rumor has it they contracted Contraband Inc. against our Alliance back in early 2006, but until it can be proven I have to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Well, for what it's worth, I'd like to make the assertion that ISS didn't do that. Now, given my position, that's a biased post, but ... well more rationally, what would have been the point? Contrary to popular belief, ISS isn't a rich alliance, and never has been. We've never been rich enough to hire mercs on a whim, and it's only under serious threat that we've done so.
And many thanks to the OP, for your support. (Moral or otherwise).
I'd like to re-assure everyone that the situation with the Marginis project isn't just plain sunk.
There will be a shareholder meeting about ... well recent events. If you have shares in ... I think it's any of the outposts, but certainly Cassini, Marginis or Borealis, you should have an EVEmail about it.
It may sound stupid, when 'hahaha, screw you all' is an option, but the ISS takes the trust the investors placed in us very seriously indeed. That's not just empty words. We've worked very hard for the last 20 months (yes, it has been that long since Marginis was built) to build a reputation for honest dealing with our shareholders. All along, there's been plenty of opportunities to 'take the money and run', but ... well to be perfectly honest, that's just not why we're playing EVE.
Speaking just for myself, I _want_ to build stuff. I want to make cool and interesting things happen. I think ISS can claim credit for the public outpost, and serving as the 'starting point' for a stockmarket. Seeing EGSE and it's brokers trading ISS funds is just so unbelievably cool, that I have to rub my eyes each time I look at it. It's a far cry from where we started, but ... well it's _long_ way from over yet.
I won't deny that the assault on our outpost projects is something I'm not overly happy about. I've personally put a lot of effort into the construction and development of those. But for all those declaring "The End of ISS" and that we should be ripping off our investors, and heading back to empire?
Not a chance. We're not dead yet.
The ISS is, and has always been different from a normal alliance. We're only an 'Alliance' because that's the best way that EVE represents what we're wanting to do. The ISS is not a sum of ISK. It's not an Outpost. It's not even the sum of all it's outposts, and it's 0.0 access. It's the people in it, and the vision they believe in.
Look at Pure Blind and Catch now. When ISS first set up it's service stations, they were pretty much miserable wastelands. Bits were worth it, but large chunks were only populated by the very occasional NPCer. Now look today. That's all changed. I still hold out hope for the future of the projects there, although accept that that's going to take the co-operation of people who have expressed a certain amount of hostility towards ISS. But regardless of what the future holds, they've been a total success. They've served to transform a bit of barren empty 0.0 into a real place to live.
It's very easy, when faced with large numbers of hostiles, to lose sight of the vision. To get bogged down in the 'omg they swarmed us'. I've done it a few times over the last few weeks, and have had a few thoughts of going and trying to learn how to pirate, and work out the grudges. But then I remember, when there's those who post stuff about how they like something, anything that ISS has done for EVE, and remember why we started. Where the idea came from, and all we _have_ done since ISS was formed.
That's an idea, and ideas cannot die.
Great post.
Far too many people have just jumped on the "Down with ISS" bandwagon, without even actually thinking about it.
Originally by: Pwny McPwnerson
I would not put a bounty on a washing machine, for instance.
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Silvestri
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.11 18:35:00 -
[41]
Remember when I said the south is turing into two different sides... Still sad isn't it? I to used to chat with ISS. And I really wish it was like I hoped. Just shooty shooty like 2 brothers fighting....looks more like a brother stole the girl and all gloves came off....and now it's which brother has more friends for the big showdown... Sort of the way it seems no? You camp us take F4...We camp you get F4 back and Marginis...been alot of shooty shooty though...
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar
Aeden
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.01.11 18:56:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Chribba
Buy me.
You are too expensive even for Bob :)
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar
LuthorCorp Combat Division
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Posted - 2007.01.11 19:00:00 -
[43]
Sorry, If they got into a mess, then they can get out of it.
Known Issues & Workarounds - The forum to fix the issues of Eve... Godhelp us if the Devs start trying to. |
Lunamariea Hawke
Gallente
Combined industrial
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Posted - 2007.01.11 19:40:00 -
[44]
People do seem to have missed the whole point of why ISS is having such problems and losing..... Its not IAC, its not D2, it is however all the others who are jumping into the fight to get attention. Take the last conflict between D2 and ISS up north a few months ago, d2 set iss pilots to red, suddenly all the other locals join in so that they can look good. most of these hangers on wouldnt dream of setting someone as big as the ISS (were) to red on their own.
The whole point of this is that what is happening today will one day happen exactly the same way to all the other big alliances i.e d2 an LV. Once there is a winning side all the outsiders want a piece as well. You only have to read the forums to see all these 'winning side heroes' declaring their intent to fight.
Moral of the story: Don't kick a man while he is down or indeed laugh at others misfortunes, cause its coming to you someday.......
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Randay
Cytoserocin Reactive Electron Phase Enhancements
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Posted - 2007.01.11 19:47:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
Originally by: Chribba
Buy me.
You are too expensive even for Bob :)
fai dollah chribba chribba?
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Maria Ravenwind
Infinity Enterprises
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.11 20:18:00 -
[46]
I don't think donating isk will help ISS's situation. Actually, stating that you want to support ISS will help more than the actual isk. As stated by someone above, throwing money at the situation obviously doesn't fix it.
But on the second hand, why would anyone think that ISS is over and done with? Losing a number of outposts to overwhelming odds doesn't wipe you off the map, let alone out of the game. As James said, ISS founded public outposts and a growing stock market. They are firmly implanted in the world of EVE.
Now, even though I know what they are going through by losing outposts, I'm glad for ISS. They have spent a long time in the same spot. This is going to force them to adapt. They will move to other parts of the universe. They will build more outposts and handle the politics of the areas in different ways.
But the key for ISS will be that the higher ups learn their lesson. Claiming neutrality does not make you better than everyone else. You cant treat your neighbors like they are poor orphans. They won't tolerate that for long.
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Kalmanaka
The Graduates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.11 21:07:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Kalmanaka on 11/01/2007 21:05:09
It is possible for someone to be completely neutral. What is not possible for everyone around to see them as neutral.
The problem was not in ISS trying to be neutral, the problem was in the alliances around them seeing them that way.
Being neutral means you do business with whoever walks up and wants to. If you see your enemy doing business with ISS, then in your eyes ISS is not neutral. Perception is reality. You will accuse them of not being neutral and scream and shout and cry and moan but in reality it's your own bias that is at fault. That doesn't matter though because perception is reality.
There are still some companies in the USA that are remembered for doing business with Germany during WWII and there are still people that boycott them for it.
*edit* censor filter caught a word, edited for clarity
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R3dSh1ft
Caldari
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.11 21:10:00 -
[48]
It would be nice to believe this were true, but infact ISS outposts were a breeding ground for piracy, hostile invations and market corruption of 0.0 for the length of their stay in catch.
______________________________________
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Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.11 21:15:00 -
[49]
Originally by: R3dSh1ft
It would be nice to believe this were true, but infact ISS outposts were a breeding ground for piracy, hostile invations and market corruption of 0.0 for the length of their stay in catch.
That's your perception... which kinda proves the point really.
And neutrals are kinda like that... they can't take any side, so they can't stop the "evil" side either... cause that's all in the eye of the beholder.
For me ISS doesn't deserve this, after years of hard work, and all they've accomplished, having you guys... and bandwagon brothers trying to destroy them... is just plain stupid.
But ego's and the desire to do the shootie shootie will get in the way of just making this stop. But IMO, what's being done now, is not just not good for ISS, it's not good for the whole of EVE.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2007.01.11 21:17:00 -
[50]
Originally by: 0August0
Sort of puts paid to CCPs vision of getting more empire dwellers into lowsec.
What does ISS offer to Empire dwellers that a whole bunch of other alliances don't? Positive standings? Safe passage? Docking rights? Permission to anchor POS? Farming local NPCs? It's a standard package that can be obtained in a lot of places. No-one in Empire is losing an opportunity.
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DiuxDium
Casting Shadows
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Posted - 2007.01.11 21:22:00 -
[51]
Do people truly believe this is the final act? Not just in the sense that ISS won't evaporate, but in the sense that this "war" is over. Wars never end; they just morph into something else. Wars don't end though. Repercussions even in a game world are ever-lasting. Simply a new set of actors, and a different background. The same old play though.
In before Act 3.
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Lilan Kahn
Amarr
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.11 21:25:00 -
[52]
Originally by: R3dSh1ft
It would be nice to believe this were true, but infact ISS outposts were a breeding ground for piracy, hostile invations and market corruption of 0.0 for the length of their stay in catch.
Same coud be said abut iac.
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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DjDangle
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2007.01.11 21:25:00 -
[53]
I bring joy and love to eve, can I have 500 mill deposited into my account too please. And all those willing please do not hesitate, phone lines are open now....
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Kylania
Gallente
Phoenix Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.11 21:26:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
Originally by: 0August0
Sort of puts paid to CCPs vision of getting more empire dwellers into lowsec.
What does ISS offer to Empire dwellers that a whole bunch of other alliances don't? Positive standings? Safe passage? Docking rights? Permission to anchor POS? Farming local NPCs? It's a standard package that can be obtained in a lot of places. No-one in Empire is losing an opportunity.
Empire dwellers will see that ISS, apparently a industrial concept where being neutral and accepting of others is what made 0.0 "safer", was destroyed by a group of other players for apparently no other reason than "we can". They'll realize that even if they were to come to 0.0 and build up something great everyone could share in, some bigger bully will just move in and destroy it all because "they can".
As long as 0.0 is mostly "everyone but us dies" Empire dwellers won't go there. It's not fun to lose your ship because some gangbanger decides you weren't blue. A lot of players don't want constant war and conflict, and right now that's all 0.0 offers unless you're not already in the big boy alliances. Nothing CCP has planned seems aimed at changing that, just making things more dangerous and costly in 0.0.
--
Lil Miner
Newbie Skills Roadmap | How to Build from a BPO |
affssssssd
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Posted - 2007.01.11 21:45:00 -
[55]
Edited by: affssssssd on 11/01/2007 21:41:39
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Omeega
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.01.11 21:54:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Kalmanaka
Being neutral means you do business with whoever walks up and wants to.
Wrong in my point of view.
As soon as you do business with someone you're chosing his side.
You can't just sell weapons to A and B and pretend that you are neutral.
You need to chose one side, always.
Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Signature removed for lack of EVE-Online related content - please email us if you want to know more (include a URL) - Jacques([email protected]) |
Admiral Feelgood
Even-Flow
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Posted - 2007.01.11 22:07:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Admiral Feelgood on 11/01/2007 22:05:26
Edited by: Admiral Feelgood on 11/01/2007 22:04:36
Edited by: Admiral Feelgood on 11/01/2007 22:04:10
Originally by: Omeega
Originally by: Kalmanaka
Being neutral means you do business with whoever walks up and wants to.
Wrong in my point of view.
As soon as you do business with someone you're chosing his side.
You can't just sell weapons to A and B and pretend that you are neutral.
You need to chose one side, always.
Well that's not really what neutral means. You'd have to not deal with anyone or even let people in your territory. Neutrality isn't practical for large organizations.
edit: ISS's revision of their policy to be a-political instead of neutral was a very good move on their part and one that should have come a lot earlier.
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Omeega
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.01.11 22:11:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Admiral Feelgood
Edited by: Admiral Feelgood on 11/01/2007 22:04:36
Edited by: Admiral Feelgood on 11/01/2007 22:04:10
Originally by: Omeega
Originally by: Kalmanaka
Being neutral means you do business with whoever walks up and wants to.
Wrong in my point of view.
As soon as you do business with someone you're chosing his side.
You can't just sell weapons to A and B and pretend that you are neutral.
Well that's not really what neutral means. You'd have to not deal with anyone or even let people in your territory. Neutrality isn't practical for large organizations.
edit: ISS's revision of their policy to be a-political instead of neutral was a very good move on their part and one that should have come a lot earlier.
You need to chose one side, always.
Neutrality can't be applied to EVE unless you're self efficient and let anyone come screw you on your own territory and stations.
From the point when you say "I'm neutral but pirates killing us won't be able to dock in our stations" you're losing your neutrality.
Pirate A is attached to pirate B who's himself a good friend of a member of alliance C who knows in real life alliance D's leader.
Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.11 22:14:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kylania
Empire dwellers will see that ISS, apparently a industrial concept where being neutral and accepting of others is what made 0.0 "safer", was destroyed by a group of other players for apparently no other reason than "we can". They'll realize that even if they were to come to 0.0 and build up something great everyone could share in, some bigger bully will just move in and destroy it all because "they can".
As long as 0.0 is mostly "everyone but us dies" Empire dwellers won't go there. It's not fun to lose your ship because some gangbanger decides you weren't blue. A lot of players don't want constant war and conflict, and right now that's all 0.0 offers unless you're not already in the big boy alliances. Nothing CCP has planned seems aimed at changing that, just making things more dangerous and costly in 0.0.
Actually, throughout the 20 month history of ISS, I'd have thought that demonstrated the opposite. You can do things, out in 0.0, that change EVE forever. I like to think for the better, but I don't think anyone would argue the point that ISS has helped to reshape EVE to our vision.
The fact that it's _players_ that change that, and not ... well anyone else, is what makes EVE truly a fantastic and interesting experience.
I believe that CCP _do_ have plans that will make things a little easier, but ... well unfortunately the way EVE is is that things like POS warfare really do require coverage from multiple timezones.
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Herculite
Hunters Agency
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.11 22:17:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Kylania
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
Originally by: 0August0
Sort of puts paid to CCPs vision of getting more empire dwellers into lowsec.
What does ISS offer to Empire dwellers that a whole bunch of other alliances don't? Positive standings? Safe passage? Docking rights? Permission to anchor POS? Farming local NPCs? It's a standard package that can be obtained in a lot of places. No-one in Empire is losing an opportunity.
Empire dwellers will see that ISS, apparently a industrial concept where being neutral and accepting of others is what made 0.0 "safer", was destroyed by a group of other players for apparently no other reason than "we can". They'll realize that even if they were to come to 0.0 and build up something great everyone could share in, some bigger bully will just move in and destroy it all because "they can".
As long as 0.0 is mostly "everyone but us dies" Empire dwellers won't go there. It's not fun to lose your ship because some gangbanger decides you weren't blue. A lot of players don't want constant war and conflict, and right now that's all 0.0 offers unless you're not already in the big boy alliances. Nothing CCP has planned seems aimed at changing that, just making things more dangerous and costly in 0.0.
This thread should most likely be in general as its getting into more game vision than anything corporation related. Really I don't see what the big deal is. 0.0 is about getting shot at, shooting, getting resources, and building empires of a sort. You talk about empire dwellers but what you are really talking about are carebears. For carebears its not fun to lose your ship and they will stay in empire. Good for them, they don't have the mentality for a free-fire zone, and most likely just warped into a choke point in a raven without scouting. 0.0 is for players willing to take the risk for the big gain, yea it sucks to lose your ship, but if you couldn't then its not 0.0 its empire.
Basically what you are saying is you want empire like conditions in 0.0. Anyone is free to set up something like ISS in 0.0, and if all those mission runners got together they would have 1000's of pilots who could make any part of 0.0 safe for them, but what most of them want is someone ELSE to make it safe so they can make isk without risk. To heck with that.
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