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Repaying the ISS debt

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Abn Matar Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.11 22:43:00 - [61] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Mattduk Rumor has it they contracted Contraband Inc. against our Alliance back in early 2006, but until it can be proven I have to give them the benefit of the doubt. The ISS is, and has always been different from a normal alliance. We're only an 'Alliance' because that's the best way that EVE represents what we're wanting to do. The ISS is not a sum of ISK. It's not an Outpost. It's not even the sum of all it's outposts, and it's 0.0 access. It's the people in it, and the vision they believe in. Look at Pure Blind and Catch now. When ISS first set up it's service stations, they were pretty much miserable wastelands. Bits were worth it, but large chunks were only populated by the very occasional NPCer. Now look today. That's all changed. I still hold out hope for the future of the projects there, although accept that that's going to take the co-operation of people who have expressed a certain amount of hostility towards ISS. But regardless of what the future holds, they've been a total success. They've served to transform a bit of barren empty 0.0 into a real place to live. It's very easy, when faced with large numbers of hostiles, to lose sight of the vision. To get bogged down in the 'omg they swarmed us'. I've done it a few times over the last few weeks, and have had a few thoughts of going and trying to learn how to pirate, and work out the grudges. But then I remember, when there's those who post stuff about how they like something, anything that ISS has done for EVE, and remember why we started. Where the idea came from, and all we _have_ done since ISS was formed. That's an idea, and ideas cannot die. Tbh, it might aswell be that the Outposts were avalible to set-up and maintain at all that made people come to 0.0 as well as it could be you, Im saying this because many people seem to forget that IAC also supports neutrals in our space and will keep on doing that. Sorry for hijacking, just wanted to respond to your post. --------------------------------------------------
bigfatbird Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.11 22:43:00 - [62] I am poorer then ISS. Can you please make a donation to me too?
AlphaMav	Posted - 2007.01.12 00:07:00 - [63] This sounds like such a worthwhile cause that a wll be donation 1 isk to ISS. Seriously though, you do realise you have just thrown your isk away for a lost hope.
Crozon Crozon Corp	Posted - 2007.01.12 00:17:00 - [64] Originally by: Mandrake Knight I am a part of the eve universe entity so how does that not include me and everyone else? Yeesh... the OP is of the opinion that the Eve universe is better off for ISS having been created, not literally that you owe money to ISS! Debts of gratitude, maybe. The op felt that ISS had made such a difference that he/she felt like donating isk, not that ISS thugs will come knocking on your door for money (if they had thugs). Actually, wait maybe they meant yes that ISS is not actually an industrial alliance but the most uber PvPers in existence, and if you don't pay them money they'll pod you back to 0 sp! Reading comprehension ftw, oh and stay away from the veldspar for a while.
DriveCrash The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.12 01:28:00 - [65] Originally by: Abn Matar Im saying this because many people seem to forget that IAC also supports neutrals in our space and will keep on doing that. I'm sorry but I have to LOL at this, after all the flack ISS has gotten for being "neutral". How long until LV or whoever thinks thier enemys are useing your stations as stageing ground for invasions? lol. the irony is overwhelming.
weixing United Freedom Federation	Posted - 2007.01.12 02:11:00 - [66] iss is truely a great idea executed incorrectly. i hardly see any supposed debt eve owes to iss. sure on paper they looked great, and could of been. but taking a agressive and non neutral stance is a huge mistake that they deserve to be dismantled for. i do hope that another alliance will be created that follows in thier footsteps, or iss changes thier policies tho, because like i said before thier core idea's are very good.
DHB FooFighter FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.12 02:20:00 - [67] Originally by: DriveCrash Originally by: Abn Matar Im saying this because many people seem to forget that IAC also supports neutrals in our space and will keep on doing that. I'm sorry but I have to LOL at this, after all the flack ISS has gotten for being "neutral". How long until LV or whoever thinks thier enemys are useing your stations as stageing ground for invasions? lol. the irony is overwhelming. Uhh, LV are our enemies. I don't really give a rats ass what they think. -------------------------------------------- {2007.01.07 15:49:20 Notify Pretax Metron has initiated self-destruct of their Chimera}
Bacilius The Tidemark Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.12 03:21:00 - [68] Originally by: DriveCrash Originally by: Abn Matar Im saying this because many people seem to forget that IAC also supports neutrals in our space and will keep on doing that. I'm sorry but I have to LOL at this, after all the flack ISS has gotten for being "neutral". How long until LV or whoever thinks thier enemys are useing your stations as stageing ground for invasions? lol. the irony is overwhelming. You've stated the difference and you still can't see it. This is the exactly the problem IAC pilots have had with ISS... you can never see the forest for the trees... ISS proclaimed neutrality and did nothing to secure its space for itself and its close neighbours IAC. IAC considered itself allies of ISS but were REPEATEDLY treated with contempt, all the while actively defending neutrals in its space. The argument over neutral entities in Eve has been settled and ISS themselves have modified their charter accordingly, however little has changed within the vision itself. While that vision has achieved marvellous things since its conception, it is still ultimately flawed in its execution and will be so long as ISS management attempt to try to play a-political in conquerable space. Perhaps the ISS dream can still become reality and skilled diplomacy is a possible avenue to achieving a balance within the rigorous politics of 0.0, but I can assure you that diplomacy within the current ISS structure is weaker than the ISSN itself. Your charter merely gives you a framework for your management to work to, not an excuse for that management to point to it and cry foul when their isk-fueled arrogance causes thousands of previous allies to turn on them en-masse. For all the smack, innuendo, possibilities and reasoning behind the conflict in Catch, one thing holds true and should be seriously questioned by ISS internally if they have the fortitude to do so with neither contempt nor resentment over recent events... IAC are an alliance that shared similar values, policy and spacelanes since ISS and IAC both made their respective moves into the 'wastelands'. Why would such a long-term ally with such synergistic ideals develop such intense hatred of your organisation? IAC have no reason whatsoever for wanting to own or maintain ISS stations in Catch, expansion is an uneducated viewpoint that fails in so many areas of logic. The existence of an alliance of ISS's size, industrial capabilities and ethics so close to IAC trade and refine points could only ever benefit IAC economically and politically. Removing that alliance from the area and taking on the maintenance of possibly several more Outposts that have no economic benefit whatsoever, is not only impractical but also irrational, if it weren't for the ill-will and potentially irreversible relations between the average IAC pilot and the ISS alliance itself. Ask yourself these questions and prepare yourself for some hard answers.. and maybe, just maybe your dream will live to thrive once more. Treat the question with the contempt felt by our pilots in recent months and you will probably find your ideological remnants in the realm of the necro-posts.
Lady Ganker	Posted - 2007.01.12 11:51:00 - [69] Can I have your money plz? I promise you it will be spend better then to dead iss.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.12 12:15:00 - [70] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 12/01/2007 12:11:46 You just wasted 500mil. ISS, as N SX stated, have let deathstars go limp and unfueled in F4 and we have destroyed those. A deathstar costs about 500mil to construct and another 75 to 100mil evey 2 weeks to run. They smoke billions like cigars. Might as well send it to Nypher so he can insure another dread. Or send it to one of teh ISS carrier pilots to reimburse them after we destroyed their ships. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
elchief Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.12 12:21:00 - [71] Quote: its good to see that there are still people on these forums that dont follow the "i smack at everything i can find" trend! i hope iac wont throw u out now :P Despite what a lot of people think the majority of people dont hate iss on a personal level it is in fact the things done by a few leaders in the past.. Infact even while we fight with iss we quite often can have a good local banter with them, Ofcourse there are smackers on both sides but that cant be helped. IAC wont kick me for my opinion they arent the tyrrants a lot of people seem to think they are
Bacilius The Tidemark Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.12 13:37:00 - [72] Originally by: Sienis its good to see that there are still people on these forums that dont follow the "i smack at everything i can find" trend! i hope iac wont throw u out now :P Hehe I'd like to see someone kick Chief... just to see him kick back
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2007.01.12 17:29:00 - [73] Originally by: elchief ...Infact even while we fight with iss we quite often can have a good local banter with them... Oh well, if that's the case then I guess it's ok to attempt to destroy their alliance. I'm sure they are in full agreement with you on that front, because, well, they are having 'good local banter' with you.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.12 17:59:00 - [74] "Diplomatic Contacts - Bacilius & Kaylana Syi." Look, guys, I know you're the diplomatic contacts for IAC and everything, but is it utterly necessary to smack ISS at every opportunity possible?
DHB FooFighter FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.12 18:02:00 - [75] Originally by: James Lyrus "Diplomatic Contacts - Bacilius & Kaylana Syi." Look, guys, I know you're the diplomatic contacts for IAC and everything, but is it utterly necessary to smack ISS at every opportunity possible? Yes -------------------------------------------- {2007.01.07 15:49:20 Notify Pretax Metron has initiated self-destruct of their Chimera}
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.12 18:04:00 - [76] Originally by: DHB FooFighter Originally by: James Lyrus "Diplomatic Contacts - Bacilius & Kaylana Syi." Look, guys, I know you're the diplomatic contacts for IAC and everything, but is it utterly necessary to smack ISS at every opportunity possible? Yes OK then. 's long as that's understood. Personally, I find it difficult to have diplomatic discussions under such circumstances, but hey, as long as it's for positive reasons, then that's fair enough.
DHB FooFighter FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.12 18:08:00 - [77] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: DHB FooFighter Originally by: James Lyrus "Diplomatic Contacts - Bacilius & Kaylana Syi." Look, guys, I know you're the diplomatic contacts for IAC and everything, but is it utterly necessary to smack ISS at every opportunity possible? Yes OK then. 's long as that's understood. Personally, I find it difficult to have diplomatic discussions under such circumstances, but hey, as long as it's for positive reasons, then that's fair enough. I believe it was when Count snubbed Kay by saying he would rather go to bed then discuss diplomacy that we gave up trying to talk to you. -------------------------------------------- {2007.01.07 15:49:20 Notify Pretax Metron has initiated self-destruct of their Chimera}
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.12 18:16:00 - [78] Originally by: DHB FooFighter Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: DHB FooFighter Originally by: James Lyrus "Diplomatic Contacts - Bacilius & Kaylana Syi." Look, guys, I know you're the diplomatic contacts for IAC and everything, but is it utterly necessary to smack ISS at every opportunity possible? Yes OK then. 's long as that's understood. Personally, I find it difficult to have diplomatic discussions under such circumstances, but hey, as long as it's for positive reasons, then that's fair enough. I believe it was when Count snubbed Kay by saying he would rather go to bed then discuss diplomacy that we gave up trying to talk to you. Yes, I noticed. Still, wars have been fought over lesser things I guess.
Butter Dog Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2007.01.12 19:15:00 - [79] I believe ISS lost the right to expect diplomatic pleasantries when they tried (and failed) to wipe IAC from the map and claim all three of their stations for themselves. Call me a crazy old fool but that just might have something to do with IAC's attitude. ----------
Thor Payne ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.12 19:59:00 - [80] Edited by: Thor Payne on 12/01/2007 19:59:39 Originally by: Butter Dog I believe ISS lost the right to expect diplomatic pleasantries when they tried (and failed) to wipe IAC from the map and claim all three of their stations for themselves. Call me a crazy old fool but that just might have something to do with IAC's attitude. Butter Dog, your a crazy old fool.
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.12 22:09:00 - [81] Originally by: DriveCrash Originally by: Abn Matar Im saying this because many people seem to forget that IAC also supports neutrals in our space and will keep on doing that. I'm sorry but I have to LOL at this, after all the flack ISS has gotten for being "neutral". How long until LV or whoever thinks thier enemys are useing your stations as stageing ground for invasions? lol. the irony is overwhelming. TBH i don't know why ISS lets the graduates stay in their alliance. You fools smack on the boards as badly as you do in local. ISS wonders why so many people hate them. It's because frankly you guys believe yourselves above everyone in eve and you act like egotistical ***s to everyone not in ISS. TGRAD exemplify this to such a high degree it's unbelievable. If ISS ever managed to reign in it's idiots then people might not be hellbent on destroying it. Manlove by Zaphod Jones**
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.12 22:50:00 - [82] Originally by: James Lyrus Yes, I noticed. Still, wars have been fought over lesser things I guess. The war was fought because of the continued attitude of Count T towards IAC leadership. You might not counted us as friends and thought we were volatile but we are residents of one of the most volatile areas of EVE. Our concerns were OUR concerns. Treating us like we didn't exist while working hard with our enemies, financially and logistically was a bad decision. Had you been truely apolitical, you would have thought about the consequences of your actions. Being neutral, and apolitical, doesn't mean you are blind to what OTHER people feel. In other words, ISS brought it on yourselves. IAC is perma -10 to ISS. You know I am not a bad person James, we had some good chats and had Count T not acted the way they acted when victory was in sight SoV might have never changed hands for KDF. It can be said that if ISS ever needed new leadership I'd put my shareholder vote, yeah you heard me right , in action for you James. You definately have their best interest at heart and choose you words carefully. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
celous Caldari Dark Skyes	Posted - 2007.01.12 22:51:00 - [83] IAC shut up SOD STFU why? talking crap! IAC sucks and works with Pirates and u wounder ISS wasnt so friendly? IAC and AAA will come to an end soon.
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.12 22:53:00 - [84] Originally by: celous IAC shut up SOD STFU why? talking crap! IAC sucks and works with Pirates and u wounder ISS wasnt so friendly? IAC and AAA will come to an end soon. umm ok awesome arguement right there Manlove by Zaphod Jones
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.12 22:54:00 - [85] Originally by: celous IAC shut up SOD STFU why? talking crap! IAC sucks and works with Pirates and u wounder ISS wasnt so friendly? IAC and AAA will come to an end soon. you made me LOL IRL Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
tigress Gallente Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.13 00:13:00 - [86] Oh, I see my peons are hard at work here :). Anyways, It is a bit late to discuss why right now. Maybe everyone should focus on "what next" instead? And some forum smack never hurt anyone but their egos, and thank you ISS (well UK) for bringing the pew pew.
Crozon Crozon Corp	Posted - 2007.01.13 00:39:00 - [87] Originally by: Murukan TBH i don't know why ISS lets the graduates stay in their alliance. You fools smack on the boards as badly as you do in local. Pot...kettle... oh smack-master.
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.01.13 00:40:00 - [88] Originally by: celous IAC shut up SOD STFU why? talking crap! IAC sucks and works with Pirates and u wounder ISS wasnt so friendly? IAC and AAA will come to an end soon. ISS had teh muffin factory....oh sorry the mUfFiN FaCtOrY in their alliance for a short while. Pot meet kettle?
Gustak Siskowet Black Ice Wreckage	Posted - 2007.01.13 02:39:00 - [89] Back on topic. I agree with the OP. I am not rich, but as soon as I finish this post, I am sending 100M isk to ISS (Nyphur) to help defay expenses and losses from the recent conflicts. About a year ago ISS offered our small corporation a place in Pure Blind as moon miners, with the hope of living in a civilian society in 0.0 space. We left for reasons of our own before the conflicts with IAC and D2 arose. I have always found ISS management to be visionary, idealistic, principled, and civil. And these attributes rubbed off on most of the people in the very loose confederations of independent corporations that was ISS at that time. As long as I have the soapbox though, I will say that I was somewhat disappointed in the ISS retrenchment and charter changes a few months ago, since (seems to me) those changes focused more on building and protecting ISS shareholder assets and less on building the civilian ISS community. I understand how difficult the political situation had and has become, but I an still idealistic and naive enough to suggest that perhaps if ISS refocuses on the original ideals of building that civilian community in 0.0, the EVE community will still have a lot to learn from you.
Gustak Siskowet Black Ice Wreckage	Posted - 2007.01.13 02:39:00 - [90] Back on topic. I agree with the OP. I am not rich, but as soon as I finish this post, I am sending 100M isk to ISS (Nyphur) to help defay expenses and losses from the recent conflicts. About a year ago ISS offered our small corporation a place in Pure Blind as moon miners, with the hope of living in a civilian society in 0.0 space. We left for reasons of our own before the conflicts with IAC and D2 arose. I have always found ISS management to be visionary, idealistic, principled, and civil. And these attributes rubbed off on most of the people in the very loose confederations of independent corporations that was ISS at that time. As long as I have the soapbox though, I will say that I was somewhat disappointed in the ISS retrenchment and charter changes a few months ago, since (seems to me) those changes focused more on building and protecting ISS shareholder assets and less on building the civilian ISS community. I understand how difficult the political situation had and has become, but I an still idealistic and naive enough to suggest that perhaps if ISS refocuses on the original ideals of building that civilian community in 0.0, the EVE community will still have a lot to learn from you.

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