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Question about Corp Wars. No Concord protection? Un-consented PvP?EH?!

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Zaphod Jones Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.16 03:49:00 - [91] did poland ever say "yeah, why not, we agree to this war"
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.01.16 03:54:00 - [92] there seems a stressful overreaction to war in eve all down we are timid carebears except some select nutcases
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.16 03:55:00 - [93] Wardecs happen to people who bring attention to themselves. For example with posts like....this.
Gyvate Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.01.16 04:01:00 - [94] "The DEVS say it's a PvP game!!!" or "It's the DEV'S game and they can do what they want!!!" I don't normally post but this really gets my panties in a bunch. 2 fictions for the price of one. Let me 'splain. Eve Online is a business. It's not here for anyone to have fun except as is needed to make CCP money. Drill this into your head. You think the corporate world in Eve is tough, wait till your mortgage is due and the only thing that decides if you can pay it is whether or not a bunch of kids PAY FOR YOUR GAME! Fiction 1: The first fiction is that it's a PvP game. They love to say this in print because it makes the PvPrs feel that have a home here and keeps them from joining the 8 MILLION subscribers of WoW or some other game. Maybe CounterStrike. I've played pure PvP games and they have almost nothing to do if you don't like to PvP. Eve Online has lots to do for the PvE player and other than the wardec system (which as not been a part of Eve for 3 years) it's pretty safe for the so called Carebear. I'm not saying PvP is not encouraged. Of course it is, but the DEVS write plenty of code for the PvErs that pretty much shoots down their hardcore PvP mantras. It's all about something called CHURN. Remember this word, because you're going to see it again. Fiction 2: The second fiction is that the DEVS can do whatever they want with this game because it's theirs. Bwahahahaha! Give me a break. This game belongs to the CCP corp who will do whatever the guys in suits decide to do in order to make money. Wooo the disgruntled WoW, EQ, and SWG populations with the promise of almost unlimted non-consentual PvP. Give the PvE crowd reasonably safe occupations to carry out. Constantly work to keep the largest amount of the playerbase happy to avoid CHURN. The DEVS probably have to shte-can lots of their favorite ideas to keep the game going, to keep the money flowing, to keep their jobs. I'm sure other long time posters on this forum can give lots of examples. Let me sum up. Fiction 1: Don't believe everything you hear even from the DEVS. They have to play their part in the marketing machine and it's a pretty poor company that doesn't continue to market to it's paying customers. Why? If those paying customers feel unloved, they might CHURN. PvPrs like to be catered too. It's the only game that appears to. The other 70ish percent of the game that lives in high sec like to play without being shot at. Who is this game really for? Just look where the majority of the players are and you will know. Fiction 2: This is not somebody's BBS running a copy of Trade Wars. This is a business that has a gross income of at LEAST $750,000 a month, and they also have expenses, such as bandwidth, salaries, benefits, marketing, et cetera. If to many people get unhappy with their play experience, they CHURN and the income goes down. Anybody with a 6th grade education should be able to figure out what happens then. The DEVS are the humble servants of the playerbase and the suits that make decisions. Other tidbits. Many of you have invited the OP to depart for WoW or other games. Beware of what you wish for. Do you really want most empire players to leave and play something else? You'll find yourself playing another game as well when CCP pulls the plug on Eve. Grow up! It isn't all about them and their carebearish needs, but guess what? It's not all about your need to shoot everybody you see demonstrating the size of your gaming johnson. -Gyvate* The Sailing Man Viva elNorte! PS: Churn is a finance term for losing a subscriber, for those who didn't figure that one out yet.
Llynn Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 04:05:00 - [95] pvp isn't just pew pew, it's any activity in which you compete with other players. So yes, eve is a pvp game.
Hans Steinberg Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 04:06:00 - [96] There should be a button that you can press if you want to 'duel' with another character, just for fun, and you wouldn't lose a ship or anything because you'd stop taking damage when you had 1hp of structure left. Also, they should make it so that Caldari can only fight Gallente and only if you've pressed the button that says 'you can kill me now if you want'. Also, instead of being set in space, the game should be set in the fantasy world of Azeroth and... wait... am I being silly now? Anyway, on a serious note: if CCP changed the rules slightly to 'no war in 1.0 space' would anyone really be that bothered? --- Signature filesize exceeds max limit of 24000 bytes. Mail us if you have questions -Ivan K
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.01.16 04:32:00 - [97] Originally by: Hans Steinberg Anyway, on a serious note: if CCP changed the rules slightly to 'no war in 1.0 space' would anyone really be that bothered? Yes, for reasons I don't think needs to be reiterated a millionth time. /Ki
Benglada Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.16 04:36:00 - [98] consentual pvp makes me a sad panda. --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends. Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected]) Sig By Ortos
Corbin Devereux Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.16 04:55:00 - [99] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin So let me get this straight, if I join a corp, another corp can just "declare war" (Privateers) on my corp, and attack my members, and I would NOT receive Concord protection? WHY?! Thats not good. Its why I'm not in a corp right now. I have a really great idea for a Caldari corporation with a "profit sharing" concept that would make it very successful! Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Better yet, Concorde should protect the corp that does not want to go to war. Agree or disagree? GO BACK TO WOW!
Ephemeron The Syndicate Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.16 04:57:00 - [100] There's a simple solution to your war dec problem - move to NPC owned 0.0 region. You can dock at NPC stations in 0.0. I can assure you that you won't see any Privateer out there :-) Alternatively, you can take advantage of the MWD + Cloak warp trick, making you unstoppable for traveling in empire. Your only weakness will be undocking from some stations and warping away, but with some effort you can setup a bm in next grid that is aligned with your undock velocity - thus allowing you to insta warp after undock. With some effort and game know-how, you CAN be completely safe from all empire wars.
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 05:15:00 - [101] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 15/01/2007 21:10:02 Originally by: Patch86 Thats the whole point. It's one of its major selling points. it is, frankly, what makes it EVE. We pay the same subscription fees so why must we be killed when we do not want to? We play the game for fun and when we have the time to play eVe, we want to do our own stuffs. If we want to do business, we do business. If we want to PVP, we go to low sec or null sec to PVP. Getting griefed/ganked by someone in a battleship when you are in a hauler is not PVP! That's like saying "I bought Medieval Total War and I am not allowed to build a stormtroopers and AT-ATs, I paid for the game why can I not build Star Wars units? I wouldn't get beaten at this game online all the time if I could have my Imperial Star Destroyer wtfpwn that guy's cavalry from space". Play the game, if the game doesn't suit you go play another game. Blog
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 05:21:00 - [102] Originally by: Gyvate ... lots of stuff about people leaving the game because they don't like how it was designed and therefore ruining CPP's income stream... The game has always had non-concensual PvP and has steadily grown in subscriber numbers. Eve may never be a mainstream MMO with subscriber numbers to rival WoW but it is a steadily growing niche game which appeals to a certain sector of the market. CPP's business is definitely succeeding and all the drama that comes out everytime someone posts in the general forum that they disagree with non-consensual PvP doesn't seem to have had a great deal of effect on one of the cornerstones of the game's design over the past three years does it? Blog
Gyvate Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.01.16 05:37:00 - [103] Blacklight, Sorry pal, but I've got to give you a C minus in reading comprehension. Your paraphrase of what I said didn't quite cover it. Let me re-phrase. CCP has to protect their income stream by giving a lot of people an enjoyable game. The hardcore PvPrs are the minority, but they are especially welcome here. However if the rest of the Eve population splits, because nobody loves them, game over. You can sheer a sheep many times. You can only kill it once. -Gyvate The Sailing Man Vive elNorte
SSgt Sniper Gallente Zekarus Ltd.	Posted - 2007.01.16 05:56:00 - [104] Originally by: Gyvate Blacklight, Sorry pal, but I've got to give you a C minus in reading comprehension. Your paraphrase of what I said didn't quite cover it. Let me re-phrase. CCP has to protect their income stream by giving a lot of people an enjoyable game. The hardcore PvPrs are the minority, but they are especially welcome here. However if the rest of the Eve population splits, because nobody loves them, game over. You can sheer a sheep many times. You can only kill it once. -Gyvate The Sailing Man Vive elNorte Amen. --------- Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances. However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first.
Matrix Aran Legio Immortalis	Posted - 2007.01.16 07:17:00 - [105] Originally by: Gyvate Blacklight, Sorry pal, but I've got to give you a C minus in reading comprehension. Your paraphrase of what I said didn't quite cover it. Let me re-phrase. CCP has to protect their income stream by giving a lot of people an enjoyable game. The hardcore PvPrs are the minority, but they are especially welcome here. However if the rest of the Eve population splits, because nobody loves them, game over. You can sheer a sheep many times. You can only kill it once. -Gyvate The Sailing Man Vive elNorte The eve population has grown through times alot worse than the current era of Privateers. The fact is Privateers is playing well within the rules. They're doing what BoB could never really do but has allways wanted, which is wardeck all of Eve. Wars have been like this from day one and there have be much greater atempts to kill people ilegaly that haven't put people off eve. Blacklight had it right, what you're asking for is something thats not on the box. Noowhere does CCP claim, not even in the tutorials nowadays that Empire space is safe. ----
Mazzarins Demise	Posted - 2007.01.16 08:06:00 - [106] Originally by: Gyvate Blacklight, Sorry pal, but I've got to give you a C minus in reading comprehension. Your paraphrase of what I said didn't quite cover it. Let me re-phrase. CCP has to protect their income stream by giving a lot of people an enjoyable game. The hardcore PvPrs are the minority, but they are especially welcome here. However if the rest of the Eve population splits, because nobody loves them, game over. You can sheer a sheep many times. You can only kill it once. -Gyvate The Sailing Man Vive elNorte It's as if he is foretelling of a split between Non-Con PVP and Con-PVP a la Ultima Online and the Felucca & Trammel split. shudders
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.16 10:02:00 - [107] Originally by: SSgt Sniper Originally by: Gyvate Blacklight, Sorry pal, but I've got to give you a C minus in reading comprehension. Your paraphrase of what I said didn't quite cover it. Let me re-phrase. CCP has to protect their income stream by giving a lot of people an enjoyable game. The hardcore PvPrs are the minority, but they are especially welcome here. However if the rest of the Eve population splits, because nobody loves them, game over. You can sheer a sheep many times. You can only kill it once. -Gyvate The Sailing Man Vive elNorte Amen. In itself true of course, but you're missing one point. Many of the industrialists/non-pvpers realize how much PvP is an integral part of Eve. You can't just remove non-consentual PvP from highsec without ruining the game. Fortunately most people in Eve seem to realize this, or else we wouldn't be seeing rising subscription numbers now would we? Eve has a working economy to some extent. We have resource gathering (mining), conversion into consumable goods (i.e. manufacturing) and consumption (i.e. PvP). If you were to significantly reduce PvP by removing nonconsentual PvP from Highsec, you'd have a significant drop in consumption. Less ships that get blown up means less ships that need to be bought means less ships that have to be built means less minerals that have to be mined. I.e. recession. The builders and miners live in a symbiotic relationship with the PvPers.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 10:12:00 - [108] No, the main reason against consentuality is the fact that every activity in Eve is a tool, and that all tools can be used in any space to combat the use of any tool by your chosen enemy. You are not safe from economic pvp, combat pvp, pshychological pvp or political pvp anywhere in Eve. And making one exception breaks the balance. If you disable high sec pvp, you disable the possibility for one corp to disrupt his enemies' economic efforts. Yes, the main idea of Eve is corporate competition on any front possible. That competition can only lead somewhere if there's no consentuality involved. Unless of course you would consider the 'pistols at dawn' system of most other mmo's to be competition. I don't. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
insanebe Caldari soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2007.01.16 10:20:00 - [109] high sec pvp is already disabled ....join a n00b corp knowledge is power.... guard it well
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.16 10:47:00 - [110] Originally by: Rod Blaine No, the main reason against consentuality is the fact that every activity in Eve is a tool, and that all tools can be used in any space to combat the use of any tool by your chosen enemy. You are not safe from economic pvp, combat pvp, pshychological pvp or political pvp anywhere in Eve. And making one exception breaks the balance. If you disable high sec pvp, you disable the possibility for one corp to disrupt his enemies' economic efforts. Yes, the main idea of Eve is corporate competition on any front possible. That competition can only lead somewhere if there's no consentuality involved. Unless of course you would consider the 'pistols at dawn' system of most other mmo's to be competition. I don't. While I agree with the concept, within Eve I don't think it stands up to scrutiny completely. With the ability to keep alts in noobcorps and do just about anything still, it is possible for people/corps/alliances to secure their economic base effectively from enemies if they really want to. Also the fact that your stuff is completely and utterly safe within a station breaks it IMO. The smartest/most dedicated enemies can and will evade this kind of competition if they want to. For me its more a matter of keeping consumption up so the economy keeps going.
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:00:00 - [111] Let me approach this from another angle. Suppose there was no non-consensual PVP. The op can happily form his mining/trading corp and get busy. They find themselves a lovely .5 system with loads of kernite to mine, they are the sole suppliers of module x to the entire region. One day they log on to discover that a rival mining/trading corp has decided to settle in their home system. These guys have a timezone advantage so by the time the corp miners get online on respaawn days all the best rocks are already spacedust. To add insult to injury the new upstarts are also selling module x all over their region...at a discount. In short the OP's corp's carebears have been out PVP'd by Corp #2. They now have a few options. 1. Move their whole operation to greener pastures(provided any can be found) 2. Disband/merge with the usurper. 3. Quit EVE in disgust. Under a non-consensual system option 4: Hiring mercs/wardeccing to drive off opposition is still possible. Onder a consensual system they are back to the first three options only, there is literally nothing they can do about their competitors. Oh wait lets take this one step further. Is the OP implieng that ALL PVP be removed from High-sec? well in that case I am afraid that market modules will forthwith be sold only a standardised price. Undercutting your trade rivals cannot be allowed, after all, that is NON-CONSENSUAL PVP. It simply takes place inside the stations and does not involve anybody being blown up! SO now.....what are we left with in high sec? A load of mission runners who are now unable to sell the mods they loot. And a load of miners who cannot hope to sell their wares for anything but the regional fixed average. Oh and a lot of traders with nothing to do at all except move mods between stations for no profit whatsoever. EVE PVP encompasses far far more than simply the shooty shooty parts. DOnt fix it please, it simply ain't broke! Oh and Jenny....are you feeling alright? We are all worried about you! F4T4L - Recruitment and Corp Charter
Ilea Celentay Veiled Justice	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:18:00 - [112] Originally by: Noluck Ned They now have a few options. 1. Move their whole operation to greener pastures(provided any can be found) 2. Disband/merge with the usurper. 3. Quit EVE in disgust. With the current mechanics you missed important option #4... They could war dec the corp and fight them out of 'their' space. Change non-consensual PvP war decs and corporations loose the ability to fight away the opposition. I dislike the fact that Newbi corps are used to shelter people from War. In my opinion if smaller corps had a risk of War from piwates, and there was no NPC corps to hind in current corps would be bigger and strong, rather than having this mass of 5-15 member corps you would see much larger corps with much more industrial and PvP strength. Its simple, dont give people a save-haven and they will band together to fight and that i think would make everyone more happy. I think removing NPC corp 'sage-haven' would make this issue less of a problem, not worse. Bigger corps are the key. To the OP; if your scared of empire war decs there are a lot of Anti-piwate corps or PvP players that would happily fight against the piwates, sometimes even for free. Don't shy out because YOU don't want to fight, dodging war targets and working to over come them makes Eve a more enjoyable place. If your idea is so good for a corp; I am sure you could afford to keep and support PvP members that would easily defend your corporation from Empire wars. The simple saying, Adapt to it works wonders. - Faction\|Tech1 Ship Info \|\| Rig Factory
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:29:00 - [113] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire War decs or empire wars should have been consensual PVP. Low secs for non-consensual and null secs for free for all. High secs wars are lame and bad for new players experience. What happened to the Jenny Spitfire who said "eve is all about giving and receiving pain"? If the above statement is true, why should empire space be a cushy little zone in which receiving pain is consentual? If you are a small corp and a new player it really isn't hard at alll to avoid a war dec. I've been there and done it myself when it was necessary. No one can be bothered to chase someone half way across empire just to kill a few t1 fitted frigates. However if its just an empire corp of experienced players with fat ships loaded with expensive modules, then they should be able to defend themselves no?
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:33:00 - [114] Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/01/2007 11:35:43 Originally by: Cipher7 Edited by: Cipher7 on 16/01/2007 03:55:11 Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Did George Bush call S.addam and ask him if he wanted to have a war? War is never consentual. That's why they call it war. There are so many political stages ramping up to war IRL that simply do not exist in EVE... If S.addam had complied with the UN, and proven to the world unequivocally there was no WMD, there would not have been a war. Because S.addam was defiant, he gave the US one foot in the door, and we chose to break the door down... There was no WMD, all S.addam had to do was prove it... You simply don't have ANYTHING like that in EVE. Empire corp wars are usually not legitimate in any way. They are simply used for some griefing corp to put the smackdown on some noob corp... It's the same old broken record... Same a$$holes declaring war on noobs, because real PvP is too hard for them... The war declaration system really can't be revamped without making it very complicated & political, something CCP simply just not have the brains for IMO, or care to put in the effort... They'd rather work on making PvP more complicated by introducing Heat and the like... CCP has spoken on this with their unwillingness to make the corp warfare declaration system anything more than a noob PC corp griefing tactic, they choose to leave it as such... You have to deal with it if you want to play EVE. 1) Disband and play in an NPC corp. 2) Deal with the a$$holes, fight back or bore them away. 3) Quit EVE and play another game. Building the homestead
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:33:00 - [115] Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/01/2007 11:35:43 Originally by: Cipher7 Edited by: Cipher7 on 16/01/2007 03:55:11 Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Did George Bush call S.addam and ask him if he wanted to have a war? War is never consentual. That's why they call it war. There are so many political stages ramping up to war IRL that simply do not exist in EVE... If S.addam had complied with the UN, and proven to the world unequivocally there was no WMD, there would not have been a war. Because S.addam was defiant, he gave the US one foot in the door, and we chose to break the door down... There was no WMD, all S.addam had to do was prove it... You simply don't have ANYTHING like that in EVE. Empire corp wars are usually not legitimate in any way. They are simply used for some griefing corp to put the smackdown on some noob corp... It's the same old broken record... Same a$$holes declaring war on noobs, because real PvP is too hard for them... The war declaration system really can't be revamped without making it very complicated & political, something CCP simply just not have the brains for IMO, or care to put in the effort... They'd rather work on making PvP more complicated by introducing Heat and the like... CCP has spoken on this with their unwillingness to make the corp warfare declaration system anything more than a noob PC corp griefing tactic, they choose to leave it as such... You have to deal with it if you want to play EVE. 1) Disband and play in an NPC corp. 2) Deal with the a$$holes, fight back or bore them away. 3) Quit EVE and play another game. Building the homestead
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:38:00 - [116] Originally by: Gyvate Blacklight, Sorry pal, but I've got to give you a C minus in reading comprehension. Your paraphrase of what I said didn't quite cover it. Let me re-phrase. CCP has to protect their income stream by giving a lot of people an enjoyable game. The hardcore PvPrs are the minority, but they are especially welcome here. However if the rest of the Eve population splits, because nobody loves them, game over. You can sheer a sheep many times. You can only kill it once. -Gyvate The Sailing Man Vive elNorte No, you don't seem to understand. You are making assumptions not based on facts. People have been predicting doom and gloom for EVE on account of its PVP system since I joined the game 2 years ago and probably long before them. The simple fact of the matter is that EVE continues to grow. Obviously CCP are doing something right. Changing empire to a total safety zone would alienate a very key group of players who have supported this game through thick and thin. Learn to defend your self, or risk being dominated. On the empire-only side, there are many ways to defend your activities and assets without the need for shooting other players. AS the size of an organisation and its assets grow, you will need an equivalent fighting force to protect it, because otherwise someone will take it all away from you, for their own amusement or profit. That is EVE, as has already been said, its a brutal universe out there, and no one is going to protect you but you.
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:38:00 - [117] Originally by: Gyvate Blacklight, Sorry pal, but I've got to give you a C minus in reading comprehension. Your paraphrase of what I said didn't quite cover it. Let me re-phrase. CCP has to protect their income stream by giving a lot of people an enjoyable game. The hardcore PvPrs are the minority, but they are especially welcome here. However if the rest of the Eve population splits, because nobody loves them, game over. You can sheer a sheep many times. You can only kill it once. -Gyvate The Sailing Man Vive elNorte No, you don't seem to understand. You are making assumptions not based on facts. People have been predicting doom and gloom for EVE on account of its PVP system since I joined the game 2 years ago and probably long before them. The simple fact of the matter is that EVE continues to grow. Obviously CCP are doing something right. Changing empire to a total safety zone would alienate a very key group of players who have supported this game through thick and thin. Learn to defend your self, or risk being dominated. On the empire-only side, there are many ways to defend your activities and assets without the need for shooting other players. AS the size of an organisation and its assets grow, you will need an equivalent fighting force to protect it, because otherwise someone will take it all away from you, for their own amusement or profit. That is EVE, as has already been said, its a brutal universe out there, and no one is going to protect you but you.
Mira deVorsha Caldari Boards.ie	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:53:00 - [118] Originally by: Olixia Castitatis Gods, please tell me this thread is a troll thread... Today is bring your carebear to work day. Didn't you get that memo?
Mira deVorsha Caldari Boards.ie	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:53:00 - [119] Originally by: Olixia Castitatis Gods, please tell me this thread is a troll thread... Today is bring your carebear to work day. Didn't you get that memo?
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:55:00 - [120] Originally by: Nev Clavain Originally by: Jenny Spitfire War decs or empire wars should have been consensual PVP. Low secs for non-consensual and null secs for free for all. High secs wars are lame and bad for new players experience. What happened to the Jenny Spitfire who said "eve is all about giving and receiving pain"? If the above statement is true, why should empire space be a cushy little zone in which receiving pain is consentual? I wonder about that, too. Well, chars can change minds. If this is an older mind or a new one I don't know.

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