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Question about Corp Wars. No Concord protection? Un-consented PvP?EH?!

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Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:55:00 - [121] Originally by: Nev Clavain Originally by: Jenny Spitfire War decs or empire wars should have been consensual PVP. Low secs for non-consensual and null secs for free for all. High secs wars are lame and bad for new players experience. What happened to the Jenny Spitfire who said "eve is all about giving and receiving pain"? If the above statement is true, why should empire space be a cushy little zone in which receiving pain is consentual? I wonder about that, too. Well, chars can change minds. If this is an older mind or a new one I don't know.
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:15:00 - [122] Originally by: Nev Clavain Originally by: Gyvate Blacklight, Sorry pal, but I've got to give you a C minus in reading comprehension. Your paraphrase of what I said didn't quite cover it. Let me re-phrase. CCP has to protect their income stream by giving a lot of people an enjoyable game. The hardcore PvPrs are the minority, but they are especially welcome here. However if the rest of the Eve population splits, because nobody loves them, game over. You can sheer a sheep many times. You can only kill it once. -Gyvate The Sailing Man Vive elNorte No, you don't seem to understand. You are making assumptions not based on facts. People have been predicting doom and gloom for EVE on account of its PVP system since I joined the game 2 years ago and probably long before them. The simple fact of the matter is that EVE continues to grow. Obviously CCP are doing something right. Changing empire to a total safety zone would alienate a very key group of players who have supported this game through thick and thin. Learn to defend your self, or risk being dominated. On the empire-only side, there are many ways to defend your activities and assets without the need for shooting other players. AS the size of an organisation and its assets grow, you will need an equivalent fighting force to protect it, because otherwise someone will take it all away from you, for their own amusement or profit. That is EVE, as has already been said, its a brutal universe out there, and no one is going to protect you but you. I think you should divide that growth by 2, because half of it consists of second, third, forth accounts and half of that other half are people coming in to farm it and sell their wares on e-bay.
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:23:00 - [123] Originally by: BurnHard I think you should divide that growth by 2, because half of it consists of second, third, forth accounts and half of that other half are people coming in to farm it and sell their wares on e-bay. Plucking arbitrary figures out of thin air does not make for a convincing argument.
Malicia Skirj	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:27:00 - [124] Originally by: BurnHard I think you should divide that growth by 2, because half of it consists of second, third, forth accounts and half of that other half are people coming in to farm it and sell their wares on e-bay. Oooh...I've been looking for stats like that since I started now. Where did you find that info?
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:41:00 - [125] Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/01/2007 12:38:33 Originally by: Boris2k Originally by: Strel Samodelkin So let me get this straight, if I join a corp, another corp can just "declare war" (Privateers) on my corp, and attack my members, and I would NOT receive Concord protection? WHY?! Thats not good. Its why I'm not in a corp right now. I have a really great idea for a Caldari corporation with a "profit sharing" concept that would make it very successful! Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Better yet, Concorde should protect the corp that does not want to go to war. Agree or disagree? i couldnt be bothered reading 4 pages of dribble so if no one has already said it STFU noob, go elsewhere. Why do idiots like you post in a thread when you don't have the reading comprehension and/or desire to read the damn thread? We don't give a sh!t what your opinion is if you can't even be bothered to read the damn thread. You're the one that needs to STFU... Building the homestead
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:41:00 - [126] Does it matter ? the subscriber rate goes up, based on what Eve is NOW. Wether those subscribers are new or extyensions of existing ones does not matter, they pay, ccp receive, both are happy. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
Brian Ballbag	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:42:00 - [127] Originally by: BurnHard Originally by: Nev Clavain Originally by: BurnHard I think you should divide that growth by 2, because half of it consists of second, third, forth accounts and half of that other half are people coming in to farm it and sell their wares on e-bay. Plucking arbitrary figures out of thin air does not make for a convincing argument. Guess what, you will never know the real stats, because CCP won't tell you and if they attempt to tell you and you believe them then LMAO! I can hardly think of a person that has only one account. I can think of many who have 2, some who have 3, even one who has 9. If you think growth is not substantially growth in alts, which are more useful/required in this game than any other, then you need to get a clue. Lousy metagamers use more than one account,its them that needs to get a clue, and a life for that matter.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:44:00 - [128] Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/01/2007 12:43:25 Originally by: Rod Blaine Does it matter ? the subscriber rate goes up, based on what Eve is NOW. Wether those subscribers are new or extyensions of existing ones does not matter, they pay, ccp receive, both are happy. I think it does matter in some way. An extension of an old vet is far different than a new player to EVE who sticks around. Big difference IMO... Quote: Lousy metagamers use more than one account,its them that needs to get a clue, and a life for that matter. LOL, ok Mr. I have a life, lol... Building the homestead
Boris2k Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:50:00 - [129] Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/01/2007 12:38:33 Originally by: Boris2k Originally by: Strel Samodelkin So let me get this straight, if I join a corp, another corp can just "declare war" (Privateers) on my corp, and attack my members, and I would NOT receive Concord protection? WHY?! Thats not good. Its why I'm not in a corp right now. I have a really great idea for a Caldari corporation with a "profit sharing" concept that would make it very successful! Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Better yet, Concorde should protect the corp that does not want to go to war. Agree or disagree? i couldnt be bothered reading 4 pages of dribble so if no one has already said it STFU noob, go elsewhere. Why do idiots like you post in a thread when you don't have the reading comprehension and/or desire to read the damn thread? We don't give a sh!t what your opinion is if you can't even be bothered to read the damn thread. You're the one that needs to STFU... right so im the idiot for loving eve for what it is and telling the ** to stfu cause he would rather play a single player game with save/load. if ppl dont like it, they leave, simple, but dont come in here complaining about what eve has been since its launch expecting sympathy, and after the first 3 or so posts about comparing this to Wow and actualyl seeing ppl AGREEING?!?!? with him, i thought i would save myself the trauma of reading more ***ing.
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:52:00 - [130] Originally by: Rod Blaine Does it matter ? the subscriber rate goes up, based on what Eve is NOW. Wether those subscribers are new or extyensions of existing ones does not matter, they pay, ccp receive, both are happy. Actually in the context of the OP it doesn't matter at all. It's just that someone always brings up "subscriber numbers are growing!" as a justification for absolutely everything and "subscriber numbers would grow even more if...!" and "subscriber numbers will fall when....!".. it doesn't actually mean any particular "thing" and subscriber numbers are related at all. However, one thing is for sure: the kind of people in-game are most definately the kind of people who like playing this game. And more people who like playing this game are continuing to play it . Whether that is good or bad is a value judgement. Personally I think it's bad but thats just an opinion. More particularly, because I value honour, fairness, creativity and building I am not inclined to support playstyles like PA and the kind of player they attract into the game. I don't even think it's "good for eve", "is what makes eve what it is" - I believe Eve is what it is despite players like this, not because of them.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:52:00 - [131] Not only empire wars are CORRECT as they are now. As should be enforced players to leave NPC corps. Everyone after 2 moths playing should be passive of war declaration. that is the game. Find friends you you cant fight alone. 90% of players was never war declared. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:56:00 - [132] Originally by: Ilea Celentay Originally by: Noluck Ned They now have a few options. 1. Move their whole operation to greener pastures(provided any can be found) 2. Disband/merge with the usurper. 3. Quit EVE in disgust. With the current mechanics you missed important option #4... No, I said "Assume there was no non-consensual pvp" In that case opton 4 is no option...which I mentioned... F4T4L - Recruitment and Corp Charter
Cyrano Tyranus	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:56:00 - [133] Just make sure all your Corp CEO is an ALT (and some others who are Alts as well) then you can all leave the Corp and do you own things (this will Put you back into a Noob corp) dont log in any Alts for a Couple of days and let the corp who wardeced you continue to spend Isk after Isk on wardeccing a corp which they cant hit/find. I dont know how much this would cost the Wardeccing Company but it would stop them attacking you as you will now be in a noob corp so they cant get at you So your CEO = Alt Top Corp Officers (roles)= Alt Rank and File Corp members = Main Characters
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:56:00 - [134] Originally by: Ilea Celentay Originally by: Noluck Ned They now have a few options. 1. Move their whole operation to greener pastures(provided any can be found) 2. Disband/merge with the usurper. 3. Quit EVE in disgust. With the current mechanics you missed important option #4... No, I said "Assume there was no non-consensual pvp" In that case opton 4 is no option...which I mentioned... F4T4L - Recruitment and Corp Charter
Cyrano Tyranus	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:56:00 - [135] Just make sure all your Corp CEO is an ALT (and some others who are Alts as well) then you can all leave the Corp and do you own things (this will Put you back into a Noob corp) dont log in any Alts for a Couple of days and let the corp who wardeced you continue to spend Isk after Isk on wardeccing a corp which they cant hit/find. I dont know how much this would cost the Wardeccing Company but it would stop them attacking you as you will now be in a noob corp so they cant get at you So your CEO = Alt Top Corp Officers (roles)= Alt Rank and File Corp members = Main Characters
Rabb Darktide Independent Fleet O X I D E	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:02:00 - [136] Originally by: Cyrano Tyranus Just make sure all your Corp CEO is an ALT (and some others who are Alts as well) then you can all leave the Corp and do you own things (this will Put you back into a Noob corp) dont log in any Alts for a Couple of days and let the corp who wardeced you continue to spend Isk after Isk on wardeccing a corp which they cant hit/find. Or, to really annoy them.. Log in in the morning, go to work, and let them camp you in the station all day waiting for you to undock..
Rabb Darktide Independent Fleet O X I D E	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:02:00 - [137] Originally by: Cyrano Tyranus Just make sure all your Corp CEO is an ALT (and some others who are Alts as well) then you can all leave the Corp and do you own things (this will Put you back into a Noob corp) dont log in any Alts for a Couple of days and let the corp who wardeced you continue to spend Isk after Isk on wardeccing a corp which they cant hit/find. Or, to really annoy them.. Log in in the morning, go to work, and let them camp you in the station all day waiting for you to undock..
Boris2k Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:03:00 - [138] Originally by: Cyrano Tyranus Just make sure all your Corp CEO is an ALT (and some others who are Alts as well) then you can all leave the Corp and do you own things (this will Put you back into a Noob corp) dont log in any Alts for a Couple of days and let the corp who wardeced you continue to spend Isk after Isk on wardeccing a corp which they cant hit/find. I dont know how much this would cost the Wardeccing Company but it would stop them attacking you as you will now be in a noob corp so they cant get at you So your CEO = Alt Top Corp Officers (roles)= Alt Rank and File Corp members = Main Characters there is also 1.leave the game or 2.deal with it
Boris2k Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:03:00 - [139] Originally by: Cyrano Tyranus Just make sure all your Corp CEO is an ALT (and some others who are Alts as well) then you can all leave the Corp and do you own things (this will Put you back into a Noob corp) dont log in any Alts for a Couple of days and let the corp who wardeced you continue to spend Isk after Isk on wardeccing a corp which they cant hit/find. I dont know how much this would cost the Wardeccing Company but it would stop them attacking you as you will now be in a noob corp so they cant get at you So your CEO = Alt Top Corp Officers (roles)= Alt Rank and File Corp members = Main Characters there is also 1.leave the game or 2.deal with it
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:11:00 - [140] Quote: right so im the idiot for loving eve for what it is and telling the ** to stfu cause he would rather play a single player game with save/load. if ppl dont like it, they leave, simple, but dont come in here complaining about what eve has been since its launch expecting sympathy, and after the first 3 or so posts about comparing this to Wow and actualyl seeing ppl AGREEING?!?!? with him, i thought i would save myself the trauma of reading more ***ing. If someone does not have the stomach for PvP, you tell them to leave the game, fine... If you don't have the stomach for these threads, then leave, STFU... Fair enough right? Building the homestead
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:11:00 - [141] Quote: right so im the idiot for loving eve for what it is and telling the ** to stfu cause he would rather play a single player game with save/load. if ppl dont like it, they leave, simple, but dont come in here complaining about what eve has been since its launch expecting sympathy, and after the first 3 or so posts about comparing this to Wow and actualyl seeing ppl AGREEING?!?!? with him, i thought i would save myself the trauma of reading more ***ing. If someone does not have the stomach for PvP, you tell them to leave the game, fine... If you don't have the stomach for these threads, then leave, STFU... Fair enough right? Building the homestead
Wotar	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:20:00 - [142] OP: stop trolling
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:26:00 - [143] Edited by: Nev Clavain on 16/01/2007 13:23:40 Originally by: BurnHard Originally by: Nev Clavain Originally by: BurnHard I think you should divide that growth by 2, because half of it consists of second, third, forth accounts and half of that other half are people coming in to farm it and sell their wares on e-bay. Plucking arbitrary figures out of thin air does not make for a convincing argument. Guess what, you will never know the real stats, because CCP won't tell you and if they attempt to tell you and you believe them then LMAO! I can hardly think of a person that has only one account. I can think of many who have 2, some who have 3, even one who has 9. If you think growth is not substantially growth in alts, which are more useful/required in this game than any other, then you need to get a clue. I know literally hundreds of people with one account. Sure they may be lying to conceal the identities of other accounts. You however admit yourself that we aren't ever going to know for sure, and then proceed to tell me how it is. Defeating your own argument ftl. In any case if you actually read the post I was responding to in order to get some context for what I was saying before humping my leg like a horny dog, you'll see that where the growth comes from is largely irrelevant. My post on this matter was in response to yet another 'EVE is dying because of non-consentual PvP' post. The fact that EVE is growing refutes this. Where the growth comes from is irrelevant. If the game appeals to its niche market enough that they want 2 or 3 accounts, then it is doing great financially speaking, just as well as if it attracts new people. Now try not to take it personally this time posting things like 'you need to get a clue.' Or you can keep plucking figures out of thin air.... edit: oh i see you already answered your own problem, yes it is a matter of context. Well congratulations.
maarud Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:27:00 - [144] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Getting griefed/ganked by someone in a battleship when you are in a hauler is not PVP! Isn't that how you got your Vaga BPO, I'm pretty sure it is. Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:29:00 - [145] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 16/01/2007 13:26:40 Non-consensual PvP is one of the best things about Eve. Just think, without it you couldn't: * Use the threat of violence to stop people mining out your favourite asteroid belt * Use the threat of violence to stop people undercutting your prices * Sell your goods to as many people because there would be less demand for ships and modules. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Boris2k Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:32:00 - [146] Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 16/01/2007 13:26:40 Non-consensual PvP is one of the best things about Eve. Just think, without it you couldn't: * Use the threat of violence to stop people mining out your favourite asteroid belt * Use the threat of violence to stop people undercutting your prices * Sell your goods to as many people because there would be less demand for ships and modules. the threat of, or violence itself has solved more problems in the world than any other method.
DarkFenix Caldari Pilots From Honour	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:35:00 - [147] Originally by: Boris2k Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 16/01/2007 13:26:40 Non-consensual PvP is one of the best things about Eve. Just think, without it you couldn't: * Use the threat of violence to stop people mining out your favourite asteroid belt * Use the threat of violence to stop people undercutting your prices * Sell your goods to as many people because there would be less demand for ships and modules. the threat of, or violence itself has solved more problems in the world than any other method. QFT. It's the most time honoured method of diplomacy. If someone disagrees with you, hit him over the head with a big stick until he does. Rinse and repeat.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:40:00 - [148] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Fair enough. If this is the case I should be able to join any Caldari NPC Corporation at will. I'm currently stuck in "Caldari Provisions" Work your factions with the NPC corp of choice. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
RtoZ	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:40:00 - [149] I got Irked with the possibility of being dragged into a non consentual corp war pvp situation which would eat my income and slow down my progress (I want big shiny...), so here is what I did: I Quit corporations. One was taxing me too much and wanting me to be a meat shield and pay for all my own stuff while buying tech II items at very close to market average. The other was draining my mission running income and basically not helping when I needed it. They were liabilities so I dropped them to build my mission runner character solo. No taxes! You are not forced by the game mechanics to endure a pvp situation in high sec, apart from suicide gankers, which for 99% of the time are easily couterable by transporting valuable items in high hitpoint ships tanked to the max, which is viable now with warp to 0. You can also hide valuable items, I recently took a best ingame mod to put up on contract in Jita by actually fitting it to the ship instead of putting it in the cargo hold (not that most suicide gankers have a chance of taking down a pith shield booster/amp equipped CNR...). And if you stay in a busy system the chances of running into griefers are reduced, because fellow mission runners will identify them for you and put the word out. Much the same principle applies for high sec mining. So this thread is a storm in a teacup to be honest. Yes, you will be forced into non consentual pvp once in a blue moon, but if you play your cards right it will be just another minor expense. Having a high profile industrialist corp with no pvp protection wing is a bad idea. If you want to make something like that at the very least join one of the bigger alliances for protection. If you can't beat them (and you can't if you don't have any guns...), join them. Or make it covert, you do not actually need a corp structure to have a de facto corp, and a de facto corp with your friends reduces a ton of risk. The very intention of corporations in eve is to make players visible targets. The "noob corp problem" is not a problem, it is pvp players trying to get generally more sucessfull players than they are (from a isk perspective) out into the open to make them targets and steal their hard earned money. Devil's in the details. RtoZ
Malicia Skirj	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:42:00 - [150] Originally by: Boris2k the threat of, or violence itself has solved more problems in the world than any other method. Uh..."Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." - Salvor Hardin Sorry...I just couldn't resist. Foundation series flashbacks.

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