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Jovius Marginus Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.24 20:53:00 - [31] Edited by: Jovius Marginus on 24/01/2007 20:52:47 Tiller your very right. I also hate it when people sit on station with Phoenix Dreads insta popping BS. That would qulify as a "solo pwnmobile" just as much since you cant keep them from docking. Mabe you can help me remember someone who I saw doing that in the Ama area that started with a 't'. edit Btw if you didn't catch the sarcasm Motherships are fine. The only real premotivated attempt to kill one was Outbreak and even they admitted with a force that equals the investment of a Mothership they are killable. Tiller tbh sounds like your just jeulous someone has a better solo pwn mobile than a dread on station. If you want a nerf than start with a docking delay for all capitals in low sec.
tiller MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.24 21:05:00 - [32] Edited by: tiller on 24/01/2007 21:02:57 Dreads are far from immune. One good bump from a nanophoon and a webber and the dread is gonna die to a few nos ship. Yes I do wish I had one
Jovius Marginus Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.24 21:15:00 - [33] So what your saying is bumping is the best way to kill a dread (which btw wont happen if the dread pilot has a brain/alt scout but w/e). Get 25b worth of nano phoons and take on a Mothership. Guess who wins.
Neon Genesis Gallente Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.01.24 21:36:00 - [34] Originally by: DeckardIRL Funniest thread of the day. All this coming from a pirate. Deck Seriously, why are you still allowed to post?
tiller MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.24 21:39:00 - [35] You cannot argue who should win a fight just using isk as a basis. Hell I used to fly around in a 4bill isk CNR, I didn't expect it to tank 20 ravens ?
LittleTerror Caldari MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.24 21:39:00 - [36] Only thing I agree with you on this Tiller is the built in stab limit but I think even 30 is to low, 50 built in stab would be better. It is 25 billion isk that some one has spent alot of time to get and should not lose so easyly, I can only dream of having such a ship, I'm way to lazy to get one at this time.
Jovius Marginus Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.24 21:41:00 - [37] Well Im sure you will agree that a Mothership is alot worse than 25 carriers and is just as killable as station dread so I don't see the problem.
tiller MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.24 21:42:00 - [38] Originally by: LittleTerror Only thing I agree with you on this Tiller is the built in stab limit but I think even 30 is to low, 50 built in stab would be better. It is 25 billion isk that some one has spent alot of time to get and should not lose so easyly, I can only dream of having such a ship, I'm way to lazy to get one at this time. Yup i think 30 is too low on 2nd thoughts. I know for one I'll never have the patience to mine such a ship or the luck to win the t2 lottery. Good luck to anyone who is aiming for one however, it's a hell of a target to set yourself... no doubt.
tiller MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.24 21:44:00 - [39] Originally by: Jovius Marginus Well Im sure you will agree that a Mothership is alot worse than 25 carriers and is just as killable as station dread so I don't see the problem. How is it just as killable as a dread, you can't really pin a mothership down. Sure cap drain it so it can't cyno or try and bump it, as you say with like 100 nanophoons (lol) I have a feeling you don't actually understand the game mechs fully. No offence.
Jovius Marginus Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.24 21:48:00 - [40] The only way to kill both a Mothership and station Dread is bumping which will never work if either pilot is smart. Therefore a smart Dread or Mothership pilot will never die. If you want to nerf one than you have to nerf the other as well. Also you seem to warn of a Mothership epidemic yet I see Dreads on station all over lowsec. Seems to be the new way to pirate.

Miz Cenuij Simply Smacktackular	Posted - 2007.01.24 21:50:00 - [41] IF devs nerf Battlestar Miz because some jelous bears are angry, I'll get real angry. I make no secret of where I hunt. Tiller, bring your corp, rent a whole alliance, buy a backobone and come take a shot like a man. Iam the Miz, I will cut you open, tear out your gibbards and feed them to a macro mining empire carebear. Empire scum make me sick, but someone who would call himself a pirate ranting on the forums because the green eyed monster has siezed him, makes me WTF rage. Cmon, i'll take all the lot of ya.. YARRRRRRRRRRRR. "Men are going to die.. and im going to kill them".
tiller MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.24 21:51:00 - [42] Originally by: Jovius Marginus The only way to kill both a Mothership and station Dread is bumping which will never work if either pilot is smart. Therefore a smart Dread or Mothership pilot will never die. If you want to nerf one than you have to nerf the other as well. Also you seem to warn of a Mothership epidemic yet I see Dreads on station all over lowsec. Seems to be the new way to pirate. You bump a dread so it cant dock, then web. nos and kill You bump a mothership (it cant dock btw), it just moves a little (it's mass is MASSIVE) then it warps away. I'm not saying it shouldn't be like this, hell it cost like 15 dreads, but it should have a weakness, or at least be banished to 0.0 where it was intended for.
tiller MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.24 21:52:00 - [43] Edited by: tiller on 24/01/2007 21:49:18 Originally by: Miz Cenuij IF devs nerf Battlestar Miz because some jelous bears are angry, I'll get real angry. I make no secret of where I hunt. Tiller, bring your corp, rent a whole alliance, buy a backobone and come take a shot like a man. Iam the Miz, I will cut you open, tear out your gibbards and feed them to a macro mining empire carebear. Empire scum make me sick, but someone who would call himself a pirate ranting on the forums because the green eyed monster has siezed him, makes me WTF rage. Cmon, i'll take all the lot of ya.. YARRRRRRRRRRRR. lol nice reply ... man your one evil mofo Wait, thats no moon, it's Miz
Jovius Marginus Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.24 21:54:00 - [44] Edited by: Jovius Marginus on 24/01/2007 21:51:08 Well seeing as how a blob of light drones can stop my carrier from warping I fail to see how 25b worth of ships cant stop a mothership. If mass is really a problem just set 25 carriers around it so it keeps getting little bumps. Undock at Jita 4-4 in a BS and try to warp. You'll see what I mean. In the end with enough Dreads and carriers you can melt the thing like butter. Outbreak only used BS and got it to half armor. Imagine 25 carriers all attacking it with BS support and you have a Mothership kill. Also you wont kill a station Dread if he has scouts or he just pops the nano BS first.
Davlin Lotze Raging Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.24 22:11:00 - [45] Quote: The fact that the 'solopwnmobile' does exist, even though there was never intended to be any in game.. is that not a problem ? This is simply unsubstantiated nonsense. Unless: 1) My momship can use jump gates. 2) Somehow I can monitor\scout adjacent systems and probe out targets. Maybe tiller is aware of fighters that can jump through the gate and probe\scout the next system over? :p 3) My scan resolution is 5 times what it appears to be even after my sensor boosters are figured in. I recall a thread on "Gate camping by Tiller" that says you need 500 to lock anything down. How can I be a "solopwnmobile" if I cannot achieve that standard? Could there be killmail after killmail after killmail on the EST killboard that unequivocally shows that the killing effectiveness of a momship is greatly enhanced by the presence of SUPPORT in the form of fast locking tacklers????? 4) All battleships are prohibited from using nano's. Same for haulers. I might be able to get a lock on them then. 5) The sentries won't target my fighters\drones. Wow, what a wonderful world that would be. My 350k+ shields hardened to almost 90% across the board can tank forever those pesky sentries in this world Tiller paints for us where my Wyvern is a solopwnmobile. On the other hand, if sentries target fighters\drones then having support present is useful along with some good timing in terms of when to utilize fighters\drones. But again, under that scheme, the momship is no longer a solopwnmobile, right? Well every point listed above is clearly not the way things are in Eve with Momships. The fact is they require a fair amount of support to efficiently kill(or kill at all in many cases dealing with pilots who have a pulse and both lobes of their brain functioning) a majority of the stuff that runs through low sec gates near you. Once upon a time people stalked the Establishment's Nyx not only for the chance to combat that formidable ship but also because of rumors that it carried in it's belly, Demundus' vindicator or Rawthorn's CNR. One wonders why such formidable hardware is carried around within the bowels of such a beast of a "solopwnmobile"? Was it just extravagance or perhaps just necessary support that greatly enhanced the killing power of that magnificent Nyx????
tiller MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.24 22:21:00 - [46] Originally by: Davlin Lotze Once upon a time people stalked the Establishment's Nyx not only for the chance to combat that formidable ship but also because of rumors that it carried in it's belly, Demundus' vindicator or Rawthorn's CNR. One wonders why such formidable hardware is carried around within the bowels of such a beast of a "solopwnmobile"? Was it just extravagance or perhaps just necessary support that greatly enhanced the killing power of that magnificent Nyx???? Valid points, but maybe it carried around those ships as the owners knew they were 99% safe to leave them there. A Vindi and CNR is no protection at all in the grand scheme of things....
Davlin Lotze Raging Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.24 22:43:00 - [47] Edited by: Davlin Lotze on 24/01/2007 22:40:27 Originally by: tiller Originally by: Davlin Lotze Once upon a time people stalked the Establishment's Nyx not only for the chance to combat that formidable ship but also because of rumors that it carried in it's belly, Demundus' vindicator or Rawthorn's CNR. One wonders why such formidable hardware is carried around within the bowels of such a beast of a "solopwnmobile"? Was it just extravagance or perhaps just necessary support that greatly enhanced the killing power of that magnificent Nyx???? Valid points, but maybe it carried around those ships as the owners knew they were 99% safe to leave them there. A Vindi and CNR is no protection at all in the grand scheme of things.... -misclick- stay tuned lol
Dr Slice MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.24 22:50:00 - [48] Slightly off-topic here but I've been wondering: Two to three years from now, when our Captial Ship population has exploded, what will the game be like? 40 vs. 40 Dread wars on a consistent basis? What happens when every fourth pilot in the game is Cap ship capable?
Kylana Darkfate Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.24 22:50:00 - [49] Originally by: Miz Cenuij IF devs nerf Battlestar Miz because some jelous bears are angry, I'll get real angry. I make no secret of where I hunt. Tiller, bring your corp, rent a whole alliance, buy a backobone and come take a shot like a man. Iam the Miz, I will cut you open, tear out your gibbards and feed them to a macro mining empire carebear. Empire scum make me sick, but someone who would call himself a pirate ranting on the forums because the green eyed monster has siezed him, makes me WTF rage. Cmon, i'll take all the lot of ya.. YARRRRRRRRRRRR. I do hope you're roleplaying, otherwise you might well be the saddest gamer on the planet. -------------------------------- "You see, no one would surrender to the Dread Pirate Westley." ...Well how about the Dread Pirate Kylana? ^_^
Davlin Lotze Raging Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.24 22:59:00 - [50] Edited by: Davlin Lotze on 24/01/2007 22:57:22 Edited by: Davlin Lotze on 24/01/2007 22:56:32 Originally by: Dr Slice Slightly off-topic here but I've been wondering: Two to three years from now, when our Captial Ship population has exploded, what will the game be like? 40 vs. 40 Dread wars on a consistent basis? What happens when every fourth pilot in the game is Cap ship capable? What data or factual basis are people using to suggest that this "explosion" in capship population will take place? And what is this talk of "capships" as some amorphous entity? They are not all equal to be sure. Traditional carriers and even dreads are ridiculously easy for regular fleets and even smallish groups to get rid of. I lost a regular carrier before the HP boost and in retrospect I would have never engaged in the first place under the circumstances unless my setup would have been radically different and the location of the battle could have been elsewhere(ie, not at a gate). (but sometimes the best lessons in Eve are taught when you are at the wrong end of a killmail :) ) Are people worried about more carriers\dreads? Or is this just a momships\titan thing? And if it's a momship\titan concern in regards to some idea that their numbers will greatly increase, then tell me how that occurs in light of their cost, the amount of support required during the build process, etc? Even the grandest of industrial alliances(D2) are not turning them out THAT rapidly. And aside from them, who are building in significant numbers?

Dr Slice MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.24 23:08:00 - [51] Originally by: Davlin Lotze Edited by: Davlin Lotze on 24/01/2007 22:57:22 Edited by: Davlin Lotze on 24/01/2007 22:56:32 Originally by: Dr Slice Slightly off-topic here but I've been wondering: Two to three years from now, when our Captial Ship population has exploded, what will the game be like? 40 vs. 40 Dread wars on a consistent basis? What happens when every fourth pilot in the game is Cap ship capable? What data or factual basis are people using to suggest that this "explosion" in capship population will take place? And what is this talk of "capships" as some amorphous entity? They are not all equal to be sure. Traditional carriers and even dreads are ridiculously easy for regular fleets and even smallish groups to get rid of. I lost a regular carrier before the HP boost and in retrospect I would have never engaged in the first place under the circumstances unless my setup would have been radically different and the location of the battle could have been elsewhere(ie, not at a gate). (but sometimes the best lessons in Eve are taught when you are at the wrong end of a killmail :) ) Are people worried about more carriers\dreads? Or is this just a momships\titan thing? And if it's a momship\titan concern in regards to some idea that their numbers will greatly increase, then tell me how that occurs in light of their cost, the amount of support required during the build process, etc? Even the grandest of industrial alliances(D2) are not turning them out THAT rapidly. And aside from them, who are building in significant numbers? Well I'm asking a very general question. Would you agree to the following statements: 1. As time goes on, the number of pilots capable of flying a Capital ship increases. 2. As time goes on, the number of Capital Ships encountered in the game increases (related to #1). Since the inception of these ships, more and more pilots are obtaining and piloting them. So in theory, a couple years from now, are you saying we will be seeing the same number of Cap ships in combat as we do now? The same thing happened in SWG. As time went on, more and more people began to unlock Jedi status. In time, instead of being rare (as they were intended to be) you reguarly saw 20 vs. 20 Jedi battles which ruined the game for some. This never happened early on in the game's career, only after a couple of years.
Dekiri Exanimo Inc	Posted - 2007.01.24 23:19:00 - [52] Edited by: Dekiri on 24/01/2007 23:16:40 Tiller is 100% right on this one. Motherships should not be able to enter lowsec if you ask me. I also think that titan and mothership killing needs a fix. They should introduce bubbles you can deploy from dictors that can stop them from jumping and warping and that cost like 1-2bil each shot for motherships and like 5bil for titans. The ship carrying it could be destroyed and loose it so they would have to be used carefully, but that would make it a lot more interesting. And of course your fleet would still have to kill it and the support around. If it stays like it is now we will sooner or later have so many motherships and titans around that regular fights without them can't even really happen anymore on alliance level. --------------------------------- Exanimo Inc. - Mercs for hire Join channel "CONTRACT EXAN" in game if you wish to hire Exanimo Inc. Or contact cptblood or kakanur
Zaethiel Murder-Death-Kill X-PACT	Posted - 2007.01.25 00:20:00 - [53] ALLOW DICTOR BUBBLES AND WARP BUBBLES INTO LOW SEC! _________________________________________
Miz Cenuij Simply Smacktackular	Posted - 2007.01.25 00:27:00 - [54] Just for the record though, I do have some upstanding fellow highwaymen who partake in the bloodletting with me. A few tacklers and a few providing dread/carrier support, which kinda invalidates the argument that a mothership is a stand alone "I win button". Without these guys/and a girl I woudnt manage to tackle much and/or fight off large fleets. "Men are going to die.. and im going to kill them".
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2007.01.25 00:48:00 - [55] just a question, if you had a few friends with you right next to your mothership, can they just store it inside if they were starting to die?
Miz Cenuij Simply Smacktackular	Posted - 2007.01.25 00:51:00 - [56] Not the cap pilots, but the bs pilots yes. If they eject whilst taking fire within range of me I can scoop thier ships up. "Men are going to die.. and im going to kill them".
Davlin Lotze Raging Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.25 01:37:00 - [57] Originally by: Dr Slice Originally by: Davlin Lotze Edited by: Davlin Lotze on 24/01/2007 22:57:22 Edited by: Davlin Lotze on 24/01/2007 22:56:32 Originally by: Dr Slice Slightly off-topic here but I've been wondering: Two to three years from now, when our Captial Ship population has exploded, what will the game be like? 40 vs. 40 Dread wars on a consistent basis? What happens when every fourth pilot in the game is Cap ship capable? What data or factual basis are people using to suggest that this "explosion" in capship population will take place? And what is this talk of "capships" as some amorphous entity? They are not all equal to be sure. Traditional carriers and even dreads are ridiculously easy for regular fleets and even smallish groups to get rid of. I lost a regular carrier before the HP boost and in retrospect I would have never engaged in the first place under the circumstances unless my setup would have been radically different and the location of the battle could have been elsewhere(ie, not at a gate). (but sometimes the best lessons in Eve are taught when you are at the wrong end of a killmail :) ) Are people worried about more carriers\dreads? Or is this just a momships\titan thing? And if it's a momship\titan concern in regards to some idea that their numbers will greatly increase, then tell me how that occurs in light of their cost, the amount of support required during the build process, etc? Even the grandest of industrial alliances(D2) are not turning them out THAT rapidly. And aside from them, who are building in significant numbers? Well I'm asking a very general question. Would you agree to the following statements: 1. As time goes on, the number of pilots capable of flying a Capital ship increases. 2. As time goes on, the number of Capital Ships encountered in the game increases (related to #1). Since the inception of these ships, more and more pilots are obtaining and piloting them. So in theory, a couple years from now, are you saying we will be seeing the same number of Cap ships in combat as we do now? The same thing happened in SWG. As time went on, more and more people began to unlock Jedi status. In time, instead of being rare (as they were intended to be) you reguarly saw 20 vs. 20 Jedi battles which ruined the game for some. This never happened early on in the game's career, only after a couple of years. I think it's happening now if we separate "capships" into two groups, "tier 1" and "tier 2" caps. With tier 1 being basic carriers and dreads and tier 2 being moms and titans. I think tier 1 capships will continue to become plentiful and I would expect some really ingenious configurations involving multiple carriers in a mutually supporting tactical arrangement being brought to bare against their opposition. However, I just don't see any tangible data or other information to suggest tier 2 caps will negligably expand in numbers. Cost, needs for support, amazing difficulties associated with building them, etc, will keep numbers down.
Xendie Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.25 03:37:00 - [58] 6-10 carriers+neuts+nos 6-10 bumpers with nos cyno in some dreads and go to town its doable tiller, its just not doable with your little gatecamp drake. you have to scale up. Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent? Quote: jake sisko > its f-e's bob dev alt making lag
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.25 03:42:00 - [59] Originally by: Xendie 6-10 carriers+neuts+nos 6-10 bumpers with nos cyno in some dreads and go to town its doable tiller, its just not doable with your little gatecamp drake. you have to scale up. Every thing seems easier on paper Show me a vid of an explosion and then we'll talk
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.01.25 04:13:00 - [60] For 50b isk can I buy one of those dev ships with 100% resistances?



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