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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Ravana 729
Imperial Guardians
25
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Posted - 2016.02.27 21:25:48 -
[421] - Quote
When other companies do not like an addon, they code their game so it's impossible to use it.
My wife plays for me sometimes while I instruct her because of the meds I'm on 90% of the time when I am in fleets or anything requiring extremely fast response time, so I really sympathize with people who would like to use third party apps for completely legitimate reasons. In many other games part of the joy of the game is fastidiously keeping up with addons and for some crazy amazing people, programming them. Many of these companies realize how this is just unpaid work done for them.
On a positive note at least they seem to be allowing blue responses?
I am pretty sure my wife ragequit her account because of CCP's complete lack of responsiveness to her concerns. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33424
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Posted - 2016.02.27 22:09:11 -
[422] - Quote
So... you don't use third party apps you use a third party?
That's pretty baller. If I could afford it I would hire people to fly my characters and RP command them in a room set up like the flight deck of the USS Enterprise. Probably even have uniforms.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
0
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Posted - 2016.02.28 00:34:05 -
[423] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=471349&find=unread
Windows is a 3rd party application<-----The decision to prohibit people from using portions of each game into one window needs to be reversed. I can understand input automation and broadcasts but this particular part needs to be recinded. You can already almost do it with clever window positioning of the clients. CCP needs to be less about a player cannot get advantage over another and should go in the direction of a account cannot gain a advantage. I run 16 accounts and while i am in compliance with these rulings i feel they need to be changed.
:edit If multiboxing is allowed according to the eula...shouldnt someone who is mulitboxing and not cheating or botting as free as possible to make each of those clients approach the same effectivness as if it were their sole account as humanly possible and only take human error and the time to click the buttons into account for any degradation.
Nuances matter. Might have legal take another look. |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 01:38:55 -
[424] - Quote
Just gonna leave this here...
"Third party applications are programs written to work within operating systems, but are written by individuals or companies other than the provider of the operating system. "
Eve is a 3rd party app. Not windows.
And since operating these 3rd party app's, does most certainly provide an advantage they are correctly and should remain against eula.
Daemun of Khanid
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Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
0
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:00:30 -
[425] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Just gonna leave this here...
"Third party applications are programs written to work within operating systems, but are written by individuals or companies other than the provider of the operating system. "
Eve is a 3rd party app. Not windows.
And since operating these 3rd party app's, does most certainly provide an advantage they are correctly and should remain against eula.
Stalk much? Windows is a application that operates at a high languge communcating a interface to the computers binary code.
Windows is not the computer or the computers native environment. |
Areen Sassel
78
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:04:36 -
[426] - Quote
If we're getting answers, I'd still like to know what this bit of the EULA means:
"You may not engage in any conduct that results in an Account containing items, objects, currency, character attributes, rank, or status that are inappropriate for the level or rank of the character contained in the Account, including without limitation arranging, making or accepting transfers of items to a character without adequate consideration, thereby augmenting or aggregating items in an Account and increasing its value for an Account sale."
EVE characters don't have a level or rank, so what's inappropriate? |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:06:33 -
[427] - Quote
Just posting in the directed thread.
"Windows is a application that operates at a high languge communcating a interface to the computers binary code." Does not make windows a 3rd party app.
Besides you can try to play semantics all you want.
"having overviews from other EVE clients as overlays on one EVE client would allow a player to get real time intel from all those other game instances without having to switch to the other windows. Similarly, overlays using elements from a second or multiple other EVE clients to allow the player to activate modules etc. on those other game instances without switching to the other client windows are clearly in violation of our rules."
Says it all. Doesn't matter if you like it, doesn't matter how you want to interpret the definition of a 3rd party app. You say you can do the same thing just using windows... then do it. Then the eula won't make any difference.
Daemun of Khanid
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Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
0
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:13:26 -
[428] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Just posting in the directed thread.
"Windows is a application that operates at a high languge communcating a interface to the computers binary code." Does not make windows a 3rd party app.
Besides you can try to play semantics all you want.
"having overviews from other EVE clients as overlays on one EVE client would allow a player to get real time intel from all those other game instances without having to switch to the other windows. Similarly, overlays using elements from a second or multiple other EVE clients to allow the player to activate modules etc. on those other game instances without switching to the other client windows are clearly in violation of our rules."
Says it all. Doesn't matter if you like it, doesn't matter how you want to interpret the definition of a 3rd party app. You say you can do the same thing just using windows... then do it. Then the eula won't make any difference.
A. It makes windows a app and last i checked ccp does not have any IP on windows. B.If the issue is getting real time data without clicking on the client then that would mean running more than 1 app at a time would be a bannable offense because having more than one window does give real time data.
words matter. I feel you have been pretty outdone. Thanks for playing. |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:21:06 -
[429] - Quote
Just gonna post this for you one more time...
"Third party applications are programs written to work within operating systems, but are written by individuals or companies other than the provider of the operating system. "
And from another source...
"Third party software refers to programs that are developed by companies other than the company that developed the computer's operating system."
So unless you can tell me what operating system windows operates under then you're just continuing to speak out of the wrong orifice. Your argument reeks of desperation at defending your isk cow. Your own argument defeats itself. The ability to combine multiple client interface elements into a single window unarguably presents an advantage to the user. Your own arguments state that, although you claim you can do the same thing with windows itself without 3rd party software, doing so is more difficult. So there you go, the extra software makes it easier i.e. present an advantage.
Daemun of Khanid
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Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
0
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:22:51 -
[430] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Just gonna post this for you one more time...
"Third party applications are programs written to work within operating systems, but are written by individuals or companies other than the provider of the operating system. "
And from another source... "Third party software refers to programs that are developed by companies other than the company that developed the computer's operating system."
So unless you can tell me what operating system windows operates under then you're just continuing to speak out of the wrong orifice. Your argument reeks of desperation at defending your isk cow.
You keep posting a quote from wisegeeks like it matters? |
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Buzz Orti
State War Academy Caldari State
141
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:24:48 -
[431] - Quote
Am I supposed to read 20 pages which would be more than technical? Or am I supposed to read 10 pages which would be technical? Or am I supposed to read 4 pages which would be more manageable? Or am I supposed to read 1 or 2 pages to make it easier to deal with?
I think that to expect CCP to do things that would hinder them or be worst to them is going to lead to that and other obvious consequences.
Why and how could they implement 3rd party systems which are allowed even though it would cause too much stress on their system to try to implement them or integrate them?
Why should they publish system designs which were created to keep the system functional if it is going to be used against them?
I won't go over the rest of the details in this thread at this time yet. There exists such thing as feasibility. The fact that they kept the game feasible after all those years already is their greatest achievement and record.
I don't even think that it is possible for them to know all the details internally at all times.
I can't even program in Python yet which is one of the main coding requirements for this (coding) system. It is in great part what allowed them to port legacy code with such efficiency (if not the most, as mentionned above).
Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.
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Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
0
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:24:52 -
[432] - Quote
"a program (as a word processor or a spreadsheet) that performs one of the major tasks for which a computer is used" from the dictionary. Id say being a interface that communicates high language to binary fits that role. |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:26:03 -
[433] - Quote
Death Reactor wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Just gonna post this for you one more time...
"Third party applications are programs written to work within operating systems, but are written by individuals or companies other than the provider of the operating system. "
And from another source... "Third party software refers to programs that are developed by companies other than the company that developed the computer's operating system."
So unless you can tell me what operating system windows operates under then you're just continuing to speak out of the wrong orifice. Your argument reeks of desperation at defending your isk cow. You keep posting a quote from wisegeeks like it matters?
Edit: look up the definition of third party software for yourself. The source doesn't matter the answer is the same. (hence the second source definition I added in on that last post)
Daemun of Khanid
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Buzz Orti
State War Academy Caldari State
141
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:29:46 -
[434] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:...what operating system windows operates under then ... Windows does not operate under an operating system for the simple reason that it is an operating system. Negative logic rule.
Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.
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Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:30:21 -
[435] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Death Reactor wrote:"a program (as a word processor or a spreadsheet) that performs one of the major tasks for which a computer is used" from the dictionary. Id say being a interface that communicates high language to binary fits that role. Making up your own definitions doesn't really have binding on a EULA written up by lawyers that are better at this whole semantics game than you are.
Sorry i didnt make it up. the dictionary did. Lot more credible than your wisegeeks link. Simply put when you get to the heart of it windows is a application and words matter and any lawyer will tell you this. 3rd party application is any application not developed by ccp. |
Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:31:07 -
[436] - Quote
Buzz Orti wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:...what operating system windows operates under then ... Windows does not operate under an operating system for the simple reason that it is an operating system. Negative logic rule.
Doesnt need to operate under a operating system. |
Buzz Orti
State War Academy Caldari State
141
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:35:09 -
[437] - Quote
Death Reactor wrote:...windows is a application and words matter and any lawyer will tell you this. 3rd party application is any application not developed by ccp. 3rd party application in relation to ccp are other entities than the client - server. The server, ccp, is a party, the client, user is a second party, the 3rd party application programs (software and/or hardware) are a third party. Just because someone makes an operating system that ccp can run under or with doesn't mean that it is not a 3rd party. Windows also runs on it's own software by the way, as it does run on IBM hardware and clone as well.
Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:35:13 -
[438] - Quote
Buzz Orti wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:...what operating system windows operates under then ... Windows does not operate under an operating system for the simple reason that it is an operating system. Negative logic rule.
My point exactly.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:38:58 -
[439] - Quote
One
Two
Three
Four
As I said before...It's all moot anyway.
"We do not endorse or condone the use of player-made software or any other third party applications or software that confers an unfair benefit to players. We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications or other software that simply enhance player enjoyment in a way that maintains fair gameplay. However, if any third party application or other software is used to gain any unfair advantage, or is used for purposes beyond its intended use, or if the application or other software violates other parts of the EULA, we may fully enforce our rights to prohibit such use, including player bans. Please use player-made or other third party software at your own risk."
"We do consider overlays using elements of a second or multiple other EVE clients to be against the rules. It changes the way the game is played and grants the player unfair advantages over other players. For example, having overviews from other EVE clients as overlays on one EVE client would allow a player to get real time intel from all those other game instances without having to switch to the other windows. Similarly, overlays using elements from a second or multiple other EVE clients to allow the player to activate modules etc. on those other game instances without switching to the other client windows are clearly in violation of our rules."
Doesn't matter how you define a 3rd party app CCP go the extra mile and not only put the ball SOLELY in their court in determining what they will and will not allow but they also give very specific examples as to what they will NOT allow.
Have a nice day.
Daemun of Khanid
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7364
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:42:37 -
[440] - Quote
You can pop as many definitions as you want, it's pretty much irrelevant. A third party application is any application not developed by the first party developer. In this case the first party developer would be CCP, so they class anything outside of EVE as third party, including the operating system. You cannot chop up your EVE client regardless of whether or not you are doing it through you OS directly on an app installed on it.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Buzz Orti
State War Academy Caldari State
141
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:43:47 -
[441] - Quote
Death Reactor wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:...what operating system windows operates under then ... Buzz Orti: "Windows does not operate under an operating system for the simple reason that it is an operating system. Negative logic rule." Doesnt need to operate under a operating system.
Daemun Khanid wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:...what operating system windows operates under then ... Buzz Orti: "Windows does not operate under an operating system for the simple reason that it is an operating system. Negative logic rule." My point exactly. Exactly and windows is an operating system application which makes it a separate and special type of application as are all operating systems.
Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:45:21 -
[442] - Quote
See edited post above. You're too quick responding for me.
Daemun of Khanid
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Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:48:37 -
[443] - Quote
Buzz Orti wrote:Death Reactor wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:...what operating system windows operates under then ... Buzz Orti: "Windows does not operate under an operating system for the simple reason that it is an operating system. Negative logic rule." Doesnt need to operate under a operating system. Daemun Khanid wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:...what operating system windows operates under then ... Buzz Orti: "Windows does not operate under an operating system for the simple reason that it is an operating system. Negative logic rule." My point exactly. Exactly and windows is an operating system application which makes it a separate and special type of application as are all operating systems.
Except that any special relationship such as windows is not noted in the eula. There is no exception explicitly said.
and to my stalker "of or relating to a person or group besides the two primarily involved in a situation." 3rd party google+common knowledge. |
Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:49:51 -
[444] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You can pop as many definitions as you want, it's pretty much irrelevant. A third party application is any application not developed by the first party developer. In this case the first party developer would be CCP, so they class anything outside of EVE as third party, including the operating system. You cannot chop up your EVE client regardless of whether or not you are doing it through you OS directly on an app installed on it.
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:52:51 -
[445] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:See edited post above. You're too quick responding for me. As I was trying to say, it's all just semantics in an attempt to circumvent eula. 3rd party can be used to describe pretty much anything depending on what device or software you are considering the 1st party. Anything that runs in windows not written by microsoft is third party from the operating system. The operating system (if it's windows and microsoft didn't themselves manufacture the hardware) is considered 3rd party to the hard ware developer. If EvE is the 1st party than anything not written by CCP is 3rd party and they make it very clear that they have the leeway to determine what "3rd party" software involvement to allow and what not to allow.
Quoting myself because I simply can't edit fast enough to prevent double posting every time.
Daemun of Khanid
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Buzz Orti
State War Academy Caldari State
141
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:54:24 -
[446] - Quote
Death Reactor wrote:...
Except that any special relationship such as windows is not noted in the eula. There is no exception explicitly said.
and to my stalker "of or relating to a person or group besides the two primarily involved in a situation." 3rd party google+common knowledge.
^^ Correction: Windows also runs on it's own hardware (not software) by the way, as it does run on IBM hardware and clone as well.
Special relationship such as windows and MacOS or Linux?
What is your definition is those OSes and how it is related to in the EULA. Also, the 3rd party license is not the same as the EULA. The contract, not treaty or convention is the difference, if not an exception explicitly said, whether relevant or not, or omitted...
Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.
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Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:58:06 -
[447] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:See edited post above. You're too quick responding for me. As I was trying to say, it's all just semantics in an attempt to circumvent eula. 3rd party can be used to describe pretty much anything depending on what device or software you are considering the 1st party. Anything that runs in windows not written by microsoft is third party from the operating system. The operating system (if it's windows and microsoft didn't themselves manufacture the hardware) is considered 3rd party to the hard ware developer. If EvE is the 1st party than anything not written by CCP is 3rd party and they make it very clear that they have the leeway to determine what "3rd party" software involvement to allow and what not to allow. Quoting myself because I simply can't edit fast enough to prevent double posting every time. You can argue the definition all you want, I can accept the consideration of windows being 3rd party in relation to an EvE client. Fine and dandy, the eula still has the bases well and fully covered.
That leeway is simply unenforcment. Picking and choosing. |
Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
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Posted - 2016.02.28 03:00:18 -
[448] - Quote
Buzz Orti wrote:Death Reactor wrote:...
Except that any special relationship such as windows is not noted in the eula. There is no exception explicitly said.
and to my stalker "of or relating to a person or group besides the two primarily involved in a situation." 3rd party google+common knowledge. ^^ Correction:Windows also runs on it's own hardware (not software) by the way, as it does run on IBM hardware and clone as well. Special relationship such as windows and MacOS or Linux? What is your definition is those OSes and how it is related to in the EULA. Also, the 3rd party license is not the same as the EULA. The contract, not treaty or convention is the difference, if not an exception explicitly said, whether relevant or not, or omitted... Guess what. News for you. Everything runs on hardware, some simply need the help of windows to operate in. |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
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Posted - 2016.02.28 03:01:11 -
[449] - Quote
Death Reactor wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:See edited post above. You're too quick responding for me. As I was trying to say, it's all just semantics in an attempt to circumvent eula. 3rd party can be used to describe pretty much anything depending on what device or software you are considering the 1st party. Anything that runs in windows not written by microsoft is third party from the operating system. The operating system (if it's windows and microsoft didn't themselves manufacture the hardware) is considered 3rd party to the hard ware developer. If EvE is the 1st party than anything not written by CCP is 3rd party and they make it very clear that they have the leeway to determine what "3rd party" software involvement to allow and what not to allow. Quoting myself because I simply can't edit fast enough to prevent double posting every time. You can argue the definition all you want, I can accept the consideration of windows being 3rd party in relation to an EvE client. Fine and dandy, the eula still has the bases well and fully covered. That leeway is simply unenforcment. Picking and choosing.
Which they quite literally reserve the right to do in the licensing agreement you agreed to when you started your account(s).
Daemun of Khanid
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Buzz Orti
State War Academy Caldari State
141
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Posted - 2016.02.28 03:04:41 -
[450] - Quote
Guess what. News for you. Everything runs on hardware, some simply need the help of windows to operate in.[/quote] That is not news to me, and if you can make hardware and can't make OS to run software on, you will need to hire an entity to create it or do it or run it. Hardware is not designed to run software without OS. Even console systems like PS3 or other have their own OS.
So, you are interpreting some of the info you mention as if to try to steal from me or try to discredit me, or both.
Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.
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