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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Serenity Steele
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate Operations Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.11 00:04:00 -
[31]
Good feedback so far, thank you!
I'd like to give a little history on the maps development, to help understand how best to use them. Call it a retro-blog if you will :)
Overall principle The overall principle of the design was prioritised: 1) Simplify the map of jumps so that key routes can be easily seen at a glance, while keeping the placement so that you could quickly find features on the 3d map and vice-versa. 2) Add systems 'out of region' that were really important - complexes, stations, refineries, short-cut routes across multiple regions etc. (There are 10+ systems from other regions on every map) 3) Provide as much data as possible without compromising 1), using symbols that enable to visually scan for the data. From a strategic standpoint, you need to short-list systems and constellations that are worth further research.
Black Background = IG Map Feel The black background is for professional printing press, keep with the game map feel. It's not meant that people will be printing it on their home/work/copy centre printers.
Rotated Sec Status The sec-status being sideways is the result of a design challenge. - In fast-paced 0.0 operations, it's important to see the routes and system name right, not sec status. - For finding NPC/mining locations, it's important to easily see the routes and sec status, not name of the system.
If sec status is oriented in the same direction (or same font) as the names of the systems, then in all 0.0 space (or "number-plate land" as it's been called), it becomes slow to visually scan for system names and vice-versa for sec status.
The 90 degree rotation was serendipity in a bug when rendering the maps once, but it was so effective at separating these two needs, is why it made it into the current version. It works very well on printed materials, not so well in a PDF!
Please keep the feedback coming :)
Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
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Serenity Steele
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate Operations Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.11 00:21:00 -
[32]
More retro-blog
Game map changes Map changes in-game can be divided into three groups:
- Outposts
Outpost Alert email and stickers cover these.
- Between expansion changes.
These are small, effect usually 1-4 regions and (so far) focus on de-crowding around +1 sec systems and highways. If the change removes jumps, black permanent marker pen ftw. instructions will be on the web site. If the change is adding jumps around +1s, chances are they won't really be strategically important OR not on a map you'll use anyway.
- The yearly expansions (eg. Revelations) map-changes have a heavy effect -So realistically, the major patches would be cause for a new edition. However, the current average player plays EvE for 6 months. For us old-timers, if the regions you play are effected, it does yes mean getting a new edition.
These are ofc. simply aspects of paper - but paper is cheaper than more screen-sapce on monitors
Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
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Elisa Day
Survey Division Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.11 01:59:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Elisa Day on 11/03/2007 01:57:09 Very nice!
I'm a really big fan of "information overload" myself, and these maps are lovely indeed.
I really do think that tilting the sec status numbers is pointless though, I can't speak for how it will look when it's on paper, but on the screen it's just enormously irritating and confusing.
Good job!
EDIT: Nice touch on the grid squares, just saw them, maybe there should be very faint grid lines over the map? Right now it's very difficult to tell what systems belong to which grid square.
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chrisreeves
Gallente Asgard Protectorate Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.11 02:17:00 -
[34]
WOW, Serenity, for some reason I like this even more that the other preview I saw. Waiting for that "> Pre-order soonÖ" link to be clickable :)
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Peri Stark
Gallente Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.03.11 04:51:00 -
[35]
I hate black backgrounds on the computer, i sure don't want them on paper. The main use of maps like these is to plan movements. There is just to much stuff jammed on the map that you can take your time and get off the in-game map if you need it.
I think I'll just stay with Ombey's maps. ================================================
Just because your paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you! |
Andargor theWise
Collateral Damage Unlimited Insomnia.
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Posted - 2007.03.11 04:55:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ombey /me looks at my 2d maps. Looks at Serentity's. Throws mine in the bin.
Nice one SS, looks very sexeh! I'll be buying one :)
If you stop making your maps, I'll get your pod, wherever you are, CONCORD be damned.
Save your pod. Make more maps. - Got grief?
Revelations MySQL Database |
Ombey
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Posted - 2007.03.11 07:32:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Andargor theWise
If you stop making your maps, I'll get your pod, wherever you are, CONCORD be damned.
Save your pod. Make more maps.
I'll keep doing them, I was just commenting on how nice SS's are. And now I'll get out of his thread, never to return --
ombeve |
Serenity Steele
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate Operations Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.11 10:02:00 -
[38]
Ombey!
No need to skip the thread - given the traffic exchange between our cross-linked mapping sites, there is a definite different needs for different people. Together we just make more total happy players
Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
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Mortania
Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.
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Posted - 2007.03.11 10:42:00 -
[39]
Clearly you've put a ton of work into these. They do feel a little over produced, now though; when compared to the original EON ad. I was hyper pumped about the maps when that add came out. These feel too cluttered.
As for the sideways numbers, clever solution to the problem. I'd contend that outside of 0.0, low, high that the vast majority of people don't care about the exact sec status and it would leave you more room for describing the station. Right now the tiny black pips on a black background almost completely disappear.
That said, I'd pay good money for these if they came with a soft copy that allowed me to remove or append data as was useful to me. ---
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.03.11 11:06:00 -
[40]
It takes a while to learn to read that map. But, it's ok. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.03.11 11:36:00 -
[41]
What you're saying about putting the sec status sideways makes a lot of sense, but it's a compromise that doesn't suit everyone. Maybe just use color, no numbers, or some other non textual symbol like a pie diagram (1 slice per sec point).
Personally all I care about when it comes to sec is whether its under 0.5 or 0.0 anyway.
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - -
"186,282 miles per second; It's not just a good idea, it's the law." |
Aero089
Exiled.
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Posted - 2007.03.11 11:50:00 -
[42]
Oh come on, why Querious?! You're giving the enemy an advantage here! Your signature is too coo so we nerfed it. |
Barbicane
Minmatar The Gun Club Zzz
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Posted - 2007.03.11 12:59:00 -
[43]
Oh, I really want one of these maps. Any idea of what the price will be?
My only concern is about the readability for the big regions like Domain or Metropolis. Are they still squeezed onto just one page? Any chance of getting a preview for one of those regions?
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Serenity Steele
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate Operations Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.11 16:08:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Serenity Steele on 11/03/2007 16:09:36
Originally by: Johnathan Roark I will probably be getting one depending on cost. The black background scares me as far as cost is concerned. The sec status being sideways is my only concern, basically you have to turn the map to read it easy. Do you have an estimate on how much its going to cost? $20, $30, $40, $50?
The printing company quotations I gathered indicate <=$20 using high-quality printing and coated paper based on a fixed pre-order minimum run :)
The final price and print quality will be up to CCP.
Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
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DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes The OSS
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Posted - 2007.03.11 17:03:00 -
[45]
Edited by: DrAtomic on 11/03/2007 17:01:23 Looks cool, however....
I'd put some more spacing between the complex and belt indicator, it's hard to see now even in the PDF form and will be less readable in printed form.
Also i'd like to see a mineral indicator for everything up from and including omber.
Ow and another print concern, please make it so that they are easy flipable and make page references to exit systems. ----------------------------------------------- My Top 10 List |
Sable Lowell
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.11 17:15:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Bosie Black background is bad is this will cost me a fortune in ink to print out. I'll be sticking with Ombey's maps for now thanks.
If I understand correctly, this maps are for sale as a book, not to be printed out.
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Xenofur
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.11 18:55:00 -
[47]
will make them more expensive, but i'd suggest putting some of the extra info on seperate transparent plastic overlay sheets and make the ring binder you seem to use such that people can open it and change stuff around, thus basically creating maps that contain the info they need.
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Barbicane
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.03.11 19:06:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Xenofur will make them more expensive, but i'd suggest putting some of the extra info on seperate transparent plastic overlay sheets and make the ring binder you seem to use such that people can open it and change stuff around, thus basically creating maps that contain the info they need.
I thought about that too, but let's face it - it's probably going to make the end product much more expensive.
I'd be willing to pay approx $30 for the way it is now (provided quality is good) or perhaps $35 with those transparent overlays. I doubt the extra $5 will cover the added costs though.
What about you?
-- I'm looking for a new corp |
Valarkin
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Posted - 2007.03.11 19:51:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Serenity Steele Ombey!
No need to skip the thread - given the traffic exchange between our cross-linked mapping sites, there is a definite different needs for different people. Together we just make more total happy players
Just so. I guess I kinda forgot to mention how cool I think yours look Serenity. As has been said before though, I think of your format as more a coffee table book (or would that be glossy religious tract: Have you found Eve?) than a keep it on the desk for 'work' kinda thing.
It just occurred to me that really, you are offering the Atlas while Ombey is offering the AAA route planner maps. It might be that those classifications could serve as a useful statement of differentiation between the projects.
The glossy print format you are using means that any changes to the universe will require a new printing run to incorporate. The same holds true for any errors or omissions in the editorial or printing processes. This then limits its usefulness as a route planner or tactical tool.
An atlas tends to contain more static and historic information: political boundaries, census data, economic data, natural resources, landmarks, political information, things like that. I know that I would be much more interested in buying an annual atlas which showed the changes and activities of the previous year and all the information that Ombey's maps now do not or cannot show.
Anyhow, didn't mean to write a book....great job, both of ya.
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Xenofur
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.11 19:54:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Barbicane What about you?
Just throwing suggestions out. I wouldn't pay cash for tools that exist only to display complex data, but are in no way or form customizable anyhow.
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SeismicForce
Clear Horizon Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.11 21:49:00 -
[51]
The maps look very nice, a lot of work been put in there.
Only problem that I can forsee is that CCP might change more systems, jumps and belts around in their "Need for Speed" project. How are these changes going to be dealt with?
Another little thing, it would be good to note the out-of-region destination system's security level, there are quite a few high -> low sec jumps that could pose a problem for the unwary.
Keep up the good work
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Deckard Bishop
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.03.11 22:00:00 -
[52]
i use Ombey's maps at the mo.....
but i will be getting the book as well, i am impressed :)
does take a bit of time to learn to read it.... but i guess i will learn!!!!
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Sevarus James
Minmatar Meridian Dynamics FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.11 22:47:00 -
[53]
The only thing I wish was different......was that the damn book was on my desk now instead of "soon (tm)". Excellent work here...and on the mailing list, the outpost info is excellent as well.
Ubuntu 3d-Linux Desktop+EVE |
Serenity Steele
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate Operations Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.12 01:01:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Laboratus It takes a while to learn to read that map. But, it's ok.
The trick is to know what you want you're looking for. It's not necessary to memorise the entire legend.
Think of a scenario eg.; I want a low-sec system with loads of asteroid fields in a dead end and a refinery = So look for red circles, with low numbers and big arcs on the right, and a station nearby with a dot in the 'top-left' position. (or) My corp wants to build an refinery outpost somewhere with low moon count = Look for systems with a long arc on the left, with high numbers in grey systems. (or) I want to NPC and run complexes in low-sec = Look for bright-yellow complex indicators in red-circled systems. (or) I'm running from some empire war guys = Look at the systems and ways they connect, can you throw them off with a loop around through different gates rather than autopilot courses? etc.
Reading Station Services The dots are alphabetical in clock-wise direction starting at 12 o'clock; Clone, Factory, Lab, Refine.
Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
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Bull Frog
Amarr Great Roid Union N Transport Co. The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2007.03.12 22:50:00 -
[55]
Good God thats alot of work put into it I will give you that, but for me its just too involved to be of quick reference value, I mean thats what all this is about isnt it... speed. I can look up on multiple sites the info I need that you have here and some that you don't, in less time than it takes me to decode your system. It might be worth it to take a step back and say "Why am I making this all so complex?" Also color codes work wonders when you use more than just a few.
Still alot better than I could ever come up with.
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Serenity Steele
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Posted - 2007.03.13 02:15:00 -
[56]
Cheers :)
Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
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Shaner
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.03.17 00:25:00 -
[57]
oO awesome maps
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.17 00:35:00 -
[58]
Hmmm, looks funky and all, but not the top dog for me. The fact it can't be home-printed (black back ground), and that it'll cost money, go fundamentally against my instinct that all things pertaining to the internet should be free. Further, it's lack of customizability (due to the fact you just buy a print, and don't have the source material) is a big kkiller for an EVE map.
In terms of usability, I still prefer Ombey's venerable old maps. The black back ground, while *nice*, would make it impossible to write on and annotate (if you'd dream of annotating something you've paid for). The information overload makes it more difficult to use in a hurry, too, which is the only purpose in a hard copy map; if I had 10 minutes to look something up, I'd use the even-more-detailed online resources.
That said, if the price is right, I still might buy it as a collectors item --------
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roBurky
StateCorp
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Posted - 2007.03.17 01:31:00 -
[59]
I was excited about these maps way back when the preview was in E-ON, and have been ready to order ever since.
But this latest version in the preview PDF is a little disappointing. Why is sec status represented as symbols? It's not going to be much use for planning out a starbase location or picking a ratting/mining spot if the truesec isn't easy to read. ---
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Armin Novastorm
Gallente I-Omniscient-I
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Posted - 2007.03.17 02:24:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Ombey /me looks at my 2d maps. Looks at Serentity's. Throws mine in the bin.
Nice one SS, looks very sexeh! I'll be buying one :)
Nooooo@}!|||@$*($&(
I like yours!
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