am i the only one who has noticed that the numbers in the blog for max value with skills/ships/plants don't add up?

some have a higher base value yet lower max? even though ships skills and plants are giving the same bonus and there is a new rig that gives a 25%

It will weed out the baddies...but still leaves the good ones to do this. the mechanisms won't be extremely hard for this. If the player(s) skill is above f1 spam monkey levels.

We already discussed the rig. The rig is only slated to give +1 command burst processor. The "25%" is a notation for tech II command processors.

some one who is cloaked can't hurt you

Spoken like someone who's never been scouted for a pipebomb.

3. Remove industrial boosts from the game. Turn the porpoise, orca and rorqual into battlecruiser hull size, battleship hull size and capital hull size mining barges. Go big or go home.

Do we know if the new mining BC booster will be able to mine also? I really hope so cuz sticking a character that usually mines into a boosting ship just to sit there and give boosts is very boring gameplay.

The combat boosters get guns also to help wth dps or other stuff, please give the mining booster the ability to mine also!

On the matter of skill refunds, I only feel Wing/Fleet Command deviate far enough from current function to deserve consideration for refunds if they are no longer needed for making large fleets. If fleets are allowed to form to max size with no skills then these two skills should be removed and refunded and the Burst range skills should be new skills that you get the skill books free and refunded SP so you can train if you want them, invest in other areas if you don't.

tl,dr: Passive bonuses remaining would be nice. Refund WC/FC if no longer needed for forming large fleets.

- During combat, when the fleet's collective remaining HP drops below 25% will you be able to swap charges from say... Shield Extension & Harmonizing to Armor Reinforcement & Energizing like you can with ammo and other charges or will it follow the "Run what you brung" mantra you've adopted? This module to charge change is slightly confusing aspect if you cannot change during combat timer.

- Likewise bursts cannot be stacked, will this include say a Leadership + Information specialist at 5 having Superiority & Hardening but NOT the Optimization prevent a Leadership 5/Information specialist 3 WITH said Optimization from boosting the fleet?
-- If so, will there be a 'flag' (such as free-move or the command positions) preventing such abuse?
-- If not, how will BIAB choose?

- The implants will be changed from a certain bonus to AoE radius, will CCP be reimbursing the focused implants?

2: Are you considering a 3rd rig slot as part of the command ship rebalance?

3: I know its coming in the 3rd blog, but can you give an idea of how extensive the changes to combat boosting ships (command ships in particular) are going to be? Are we talking minor grid/CPU adjustments, major overhauls, or just rebalancing within the ship class?

4: Has the design team planned for players twisting links. By twisting, I mean giving 2 buffs from 1 module by changing ammo types every cycle after max duration skills? Is this the designed intent for high skill play or do you see boosting modules more as utility high slot.

Lastly, I don't think you'll be seeing many Orcas, and unless they're very secure and/or rich, Rorq pilots boosting on field very often after the change. Hell, I bet skill injector prices will burst because of the leadership changes, many Orca pilots will repurpose or quit (probably ragequit after spending a few billion on skills and the now useless MF implant).

Not that anyone cares, but I'll be extracting all leadership skills and hold a candlelight vigil for anything relying on it (*cough* Fighters *cough*). Oh, and probably Cybernetics 5, as there'll be no implants requiring it of use anymore

pve is never taken into consideration when making changes like this, pve is what keeps feeding eve, isk, ships, everything, so we force boosters on grid of all types, mining links should stay off grid so we can continue to fill the markets without blowing up the prices, i can understand warfare links coming on grid, but when i run missions i do like to off grid boost or for ratting in null.

BUT AFK CLOAKING ISNT EVEN BEING ADDRESSED WHEN BRINING OFF GRID BOOSTERS ON GRID?! why not bring cloaky campers right on top of the closest ship in system after 10mins in hopes they die in a fire. this is an issue that has been around for a LONG time and there IS NO COUNTER, unlike scanning down a links ship. my links toon will be bio massed, he was trained to OGB for pve reasons/ system defense. im not giving ccp anymore money than i already do paying subs to extract, and im not wasting isk on them either seeing as isk/hr will diminish weather its mining, incursions, or other pve and production will slow.

IMHO more negative things will come of this as a whole than good. more accounts WILL cancel. the more casual player like myself doesn't log on to have the task load of a 2nd job, log on throw some links up and rat or mine, maybe start a couple jobs go to bed, now its gonna be, micro managing another toon, more so than even ratting in a carrier or anything else for that matter.

bringing links on grid could have been done better in a different way. getting rid of cloaky campers should be priority

end of rant, Eve is life and i care about what ive built in eve i have many friends here, hopefully someone at ccp gets it right one a these days

I have to agree .... on grid combat links are quite different than off grid mining boosts, but CCP apparently doesn't see it that way.

Now if CCP actually sat down with miners to find out how they do mining ops .....


Oh wait, nevermind. They don't do that.

I don't see the issue with needing to put an asset on grid in order to reap the benefits. When you can just keep an orca safely tucked on the undock what is the downside to using it? Why would anyone with access to an orca not use one?

Well I geuss I am a super-minority here then. Anybody else use their Rorq for hauling/surveying/faction dread ratting?

[quote=Balder Verdandi]

... or instead of an mwd you could oh idk fit a web or two to the miners?

but i may just be crazy

I do not like this change as I see it following CCP's consistent theme of only making changes to the game to make combat less likely to occur.

For me, when gang links are used it is almost exclusively for tackling. Usually that would mean the Interdiction Maneuvers link, but some others help a little as well. Removing the point range bonus already applied to your tackler as soon as the land on grid will be another huge nerf to tackling. These point bonuses are needed because CCP has already gone out of their way to give every advantage in the book to your intended target. Not only are at baseline they likely to be 100km off your warp in and algined, but MWD's now more or less accelerate at afterburner speeds following the old, over-zealous "nano-nerfs" affecting every ship that fits a MWD. You probably need a long range scram with your long range point as well because they gave them the escape tool of the MJD as well. Good lucky keeping them there with your webs that are not as effective as they were originally intended to be. And of course how will you even know when to look for your target or if they unsubbed a year ago now that CCP apparently removed the watchlist to make eve once again a less risky place. I could keep going forever.

On top of everything, in typical CCP fashion they go one step further from what was intended in the first place of their redesign and remove all bonuses from the gang skills themselves?

This discussion is running in circles... plenty of people already pointed out the current broken "get benefits for zero risk" mechanic of possed boosts; I have yet to see a response addressing that argument from a miner other than "this is how miners do things for I.don't.know.how.long and we are (for some reason) entitled to it!"

Anyone feel free to link me a post I might have missed reading in this thread addressing it.

This discussion is running in circles... plenty of people already pointed out the current broken "get benefits for zero risk" mechanic of possed boosts; I have yet to see a response addressing that argument from a miner other than "this is how miners do things for I.don't.know.how.long and we are (for some reason) entitled to it!"

Anyone feel free to link me a post I might have missed reading in this thread addressing it.

Miners have repeatedly pointed out the risk vs. reward problem of forcing the Rorqual on to the field - the risk becomes ridiculously high versus the reward.

And 3 Tech 3 Destroyers with 1 logi frig can wipe out an entire mining fleets even of procurers and then if they brought enough ammo they kill the orca too.

Miners have repeatedly pointed out the risk vs. reward problem of forcing the Rorqual on to the field - the risk becomes ridiculously high versus the reward.

Without going into a ton of detail which would be wasted deep in a thread.

Why not add a new module called "Industrial Relay" which can be fit to any industrial boost ship (porpoise/orca/rorqual) and allow for relaying of industrial boosts from any Rorqual with an active Industrial Core. At the same time go ahead and remove the ability to boost from within a POS shield and force break tether like all other boosts. Also while we're at it reduce the Industrial Core cycle time to 1 minute and the fuel requirement accordingly.

With this you allow for boosting pilots to avoid sitting directly in warpable anoms/belts for 5 minute intervals; at the same time attaching the burst effect to mobile ships which can move with the mining fleet through large belts without having to turn off the industrial core, slowboat/warp out and back to a new location, and repeat. All this while still leaving enough vulnerability to be caught, but not overly-so for a non-combat activity.



FYI-I'm not exactly changing my stance on my previous post. I'm still against the requirement of the Industrial Core for providing boosts. However, if use of the Industrial Core allowed for the bonus of being able to position anywhere in system and relaying those boosts through other ships with an active Relay Module then I can see a balance being obtained.

the industrial core is no longer needed you only need it for MAX boosts if you are willing to take that extra risk

T1 Industrial Core (while active)

+25% bonus to Mining Foreman Burst strength

+100% bonus to Mining Foreman and Shield Command Burst Area of Effect Range


T2 Industrial Core (while active)

+30% bonus to Mining Foreman Burst strength

+200% bonus to Mining Foreman and Shield Command Burst Area of Effect Range