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EVE Voice - The Newest Addition To Useless Features

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Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:00:00 - [121] Originally by: Juwi Kotch Soulita, of course you are correct with the community splitting point. Since I don't like repetition either, I only say that you have explained it well enough several times already. Don't understand what's so difficult to see that... Juwi Kotch Not to get off topic here, but Juwi I just noticed your signature. Your ribbons dont match, they are out of order, and I very seriously dont think you deserve the light blue with 5 white stars. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Khadur Minmatar Spontaneous Defenestration	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:00:00 - [122] Proper vent > Vivox
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:08:00 - [123] Originally by: Grez 3) EVE-Voice uses the Vivox servers, not TQ, or any of the EVE servers. Meaning it doesn't induce strain on the server(s). It's just that the EVE-client has the nasty habit of freezing in certain situations (e. g. loading the grid). This is where the additional strain of the integrated Vivox functionality comes in. Originally by: Grez 5) Whilst some people prefer third-party programs, others don't have two screens, or run the game in windowed mode. Therefor, they cannot see who is talking without asking "Who said that?". Intergrating Vivox into EVE makes it easier to see who is talking, and what is going on. If Jimmybob says "Enemy coming", you can instantly see who said it, and who they are (he may be set as group A's scout). Or you could just teach the guys in your gang to include that kind of information when they talk.
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:22:00 - [124] Originally by: Salusa VC You miss the point. If each and every one of your alliance mates pay up for IVC thats $4k. I reckon you can get some dedicated TS/Vent bandwith for a fraction of that, dont you? You mean like trying to get people to donate real money for it? Good luck with that. With this feature, at least the only people who want it will be on it. $10 for a year is very reasonable and the extra features it has makes it cool. Apparently an FC will be able to see where people are, via the systemmap, when they talk so you won't even really have to ask where they are.
Grez Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:27:00 - [125] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Grez 3) EVE-Voice uses the Vivox servers, not TQ, or any of the EVE servers. Meaning it doesn't induce strain on the server(s). It's just that the EVE-client has the nasty habit of freezing in certain situations (e. g. loading the grid). This is where the additional strain of the integrated Vivox functionality comes in. This has nothing to do with Vivox. I don't think you fully understand how the EVE client works. EVE-Voice is done via a completely different server, it's got nothing to do with grid loading. The voice servers don't have anything to do with information being transfered between players in a grid. Hell, there's not even the need for it. Quote: Originally by: Grez 5) Whilst some people prefer third-party programs, others don't have two screens, or run the game in windowed mode. Therefor, they cannot see who is talking without asking "Who said that?". Intergrating Vivox into EVE makes it easier to see who is talking, and what is going on. If Jimmybob says "Enemy coming", you can instantly see who said it, and who they are (he may be set as group A's scout). Or you could just teach the guys in your gang to include that kind of information when they talk. I've been in numerious alliances, and it's all the same. Someone asks a question, ie, "Who can fly interdictors?" and players always reply "Me". This is only the tip of the iceberg, but you can see where I'm coming from, it simply makes things easier and that's all CCP is trying to do - make things easier for us. --- Cache Clearer
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:29:00 - [126] Originally by: Ogul What I don't like is that a CTD/disconnect will now disrupt all communications. I'm not understanding this or missing something. How does TS or Vent help in this regard? You can say I crashed and then what? You still can't do anything until you log back in.
Arii Smith Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:35:00 - [127] I am going to get this out of laziness, I am willing to pay the 85 cents a month just to not have to window out and join vent. I am not going to use this for fleet ops, I am going to use it for easy and fun social networking with my corpmates. Rather than window out and use vent in a private channel, or waste time typing when I am on a mission I can just talk. The real selling point of this is added convenience at a price I can more than accept.
Darth Bob Dark Excession The Cartel.	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:47:00 - [128] - I have NEVER paid for voice communication (TS/Vent) before, so yes, it was completely free as far as I was concerned - Eve voice crashes when the game crashes, ok that's all, I won't use it. - so the old gang bonuses were creating lag, but 200 ppl talking to eachother on eve voice are ok? mmmkay... - less than $1 per month? I have 3 accounts and I know plenty ppl with more than that. so it's more than advertised for 90% of the community - All the ppl saying $10 is nothing: you can feel free to send it to me, you'll get about as much use from that as eve voice - [tinfoil hat] I'd like to keep important stuff on a channel that I know 100% sure is safe from devs, thank you very much
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:48:00 - [129] Edited by: Ogul on 21/03/2007 18:49:31 Originally by: Grez This has nothing to do with Vivox. I don't think you fully understand how the EVE client works. EVE-Voice is done via a completely different server, it's got nothing to do with grid loading. The voice servers don't have anything to do with information being transfered between players in a grid. Hell, there's not even the need for it. It's like this: Whenever you warp into a grid that is filled with a lot of ships (e. g. enemy fleet) the client window freezes (you cannot click anything, chat windows are not updating, etc.) until the grid has finally loaded. You are completely right by saying that I do not understand why this has to happen. What I do know is however, that the amount of data (ships on grid) cannot be transmitted to the client fast enough - hence the freeze. Vivox might be operating on different servers, but it is another case of data being transmitted to the eve client, which might or might not cause similar consequences. Time will tell. Originally by: Grez I've been in numerious alliances, and it's all the same. Someone asks a question, ie, "Who can fly interdictors?" and players always reply "Me". This is only the tip of the iceberg, but you can see where I'm coming from, it simply makes things easier and that's all CCP is trying to do - make things easier for us. If you want it easy, EVE might not be the game for you. No, just kidding - I despise those kinds of comments. But I would rather not have chat windows cluttering my screen, voice communication should be just that, not having to watch the screen to know everything I need to know would make things easier for me.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:53:00 - [130] Originally by: Derran Originally by: Ogul What I don't like is that a CTD/disconnect will now disrupt all communications. I'm not understanding this or missing something. How does TS or Vent help in this regard? You can say I crashed and then what? You still can't do anything until you log back in. To tell the FC that half his gang has crashed instead of jumping an enemy gatecamp. To find out if it is a good idea to try to log in again or you should stay logged out. Furthermore it will be a hassle to log in again and get a gang invite before you are able to hear what is going on.

Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.03.21 19:01:00 - [131] Originally by: Ogul To tell the FC that half his gang has crashed instead of jumping an enemy gatecamp. Wouldn't he already know this happen when they suddenly disappear from gang? Or when he asks what is happening and gets no response? I personally don't care either way really. It is still just a service you can feel free to use or not as an individual so I don't feel particularly obligated to defend or argue against it since it is a choice, not a requirement. The features that will be integrated into it will certainly be useful. I just like trying to understand some of the logic behind people feeling obligated to speak out against something that hasn't even been fully developed yet. It just doesn't make any sense to me.
Topaz Skydiver Minmatar Narrative Freshfood	Posted - 2007.03.21 19:29:00 - [132] Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 21/03/2007 19:26:03 Originally by: Derran Originally by: Ogul To tell the FC that half his gang has crashed instead of jumping an enemy gatecamp. Wouldn't he already know this happen when they suddenly disappear from gang? Or when he asks what is happening and gets no response? Well, for me it's a point. If you fly in a fleet, it's normal to lose one or 2 people every few gates due to cdt. Also not uncommon that someone's client freezes in a battle. Wonder, if voice-com still works then. We'll see. If someone cdt's while moving with a fleet, he usually just says it, then the FC asks him which ship he flies, he answers e.g. interceptor or BS and the FC decides, if the fleet moves on or waits. Something like that has happened in any fleet I've traveled with, I think. Every few jumps: 'I just crashed.' or 'Can you scramble me, I log back in.' or 'Is it clear ? Can I log back in ?'
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.21 20:24:00 - [133] Originally by: Derran Apparently an FC will be able to see where people are, via the systemmap, when they talk so you won't even really have to ask where they are. You mean the system map that might update the location of your gang mates once an hour if you're lucky? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.21 20:27:00 - [134] Originally by: Derran Originally by: Ogul To tell the FC that half his gang has crashed instead of jumping an enemy gatecamp. Wouldn't he already know this happen when they suddenly disappear from gang? Or when he asks what is happening and gets no response? Of course, what happens when the FC crashes? They say so, so the 2ic can take over quickly. Otherwise you wait on orders. The more important part of this, is the first that a lot of people ask when coming onto TS is "whats (system) like?" Oh, and some people in my corp also play BF2142 and use our same TS. See, we're friends, and like to play some games other than eve every once in a while. The same TS server covers all of that. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.03.21 21:18:00 - [135] Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Soulita And please winter, stop making me quote again what I already said. If you have no new arguments, let it be. Please. All you seem to be able to do is say "you're wrong" and quote something you said earlier, instead of actually addressing what was said. That's not discussing, that's not even arguing (for the record, I was doing the former, not the latter). And I "let it be" back when I said I understood what you were getting at, just disagreed with it. fin And this is why I just flame people - If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine.
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.03.21 21:51:00 - [136] Voice client is a crappy idea. We didn't need it. You should spend your resources on things that actually improve the game.
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.03.21 23:29:00 - [137] Originally by: Cipher7 Voice client is a crappy idea. We didn't need it. You should spend your resources on things that actually improve the game. Your ignorance is stunning, did you read the thread at all? Did you find out anything at all about vivox before you posted?
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.03.21 23:34:00 - [138] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Originally by: Cipher7 Voice client is a crappy idea. We didn't need it. You should spend your resources on things that actually improve the game. Your ignorance is stunning, did you read the thread at all? Did you find out anything at all about vivox before you posted? First of all, yes I've read the thread. Secondly, yo momma. And thirdly, if you don't have anything constructive to say then shut your cakehole. Sincerely, Cipher7
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.03.21 23:35:00 - [139] Originally by: Cipher7 And thirdly, if you don't have anything constructive to say then shut your cakehole. Quoted for Irony - If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine.
Anon I'muss	Posted - 2007.03.21 23:41:00 - [140] IMO its a good idea, which if I could afford another VoIP system I'd probably get. But I already have a TS server, which I pay for. I can use it for chats with friends who don't own (or want to) EVE. I have loaned it out to my WoW guild and to several Super Groups on City of Heroes. The Vivox service might be better, it might have more features than TS (wouldn't be hard) it might sound nicer than Vent but the bottom line is its part of a game making it difficult for people who don't own the game to use. If they make a system that anyone can sign up to use, and be able to join in game channels without actually owning EVE than it will be more useful than the existing VoIP systems. Until then I and I suspect many others will stick with TS and Vent! _________________________________________________________ My main forum alt...

Fuujin hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.21 23:42:00 - [141] Amazing how many people are so adamant against it. If you dont have a use for it then dont use it, i'm more than sure many people will however. I know i will on certain occasions, certainly not for fleet ops but it does have its uses.
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.03.22 02:18:00 - [142] Originally by: Fuujin Amazing how many people are so adamant against it. If you dont have a use for it then dont use it, i'm more than sure many people will however. I know i will on certain occasions, certainly not for fleet ops but it does have its uses. The problem is that it's so stupid it's insulting. CCP wants to charge several times the cost of our external solutions for their own inferior solution. Like so many other things, they can't admit that they're wrong and try to improve it, instead they must be bullheaded and do their own thing(or in this case, enjoy kickbacks from Vivox). ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic
Sazumaan Johnza Raven Enterprises Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.03.22 03:19:00 - [143] This thread is all over the show with assumptions. 1. The integration has taken a lot longer than previously planned. At this stage Vivox needs to monetize the "basic implementation" of the client to get an understanding of risk. 2. Within 2-3 months of release, Vivox/CCP will have a good understanding of uptake and Vivox subscriber estimated growth of going forward. 3. The rate of uptake will likely determine the extent and speed of Vivox customisation for the roll-out of Vivox 2 & 3 and beyond. Don't think for one moment that they will stop with what has been put in place so far. That would be a bit of a waste of time. 4. Vivox has learnt a few things from implementations with other MMO titles. They would have already made suggestions to CCP as to which features to introduce first (to maximise the player value perception and thus get more people to pay the annual Voice fee). 5. We all know that CCP does things big and so I would say that they will work with Vivox to create something super-integrated and customised, offering value over and above a TS/Vent solution. Otherwise I don't think they would have started this project in the first place. We are comparing an early-phase product (Voice) VS fully deployed products (Vent/TS). Another thing to remember is that value of a network increases exponentially by new members joining. Perhaps there will be a point where enough people are using Vivox where it just doesn't make sense not to have it. (That is, if they can make it more useful than TS/Vent). Lastely there will probably be situations where TS/Vent. remain a better solution for whatever reason. And that's fine. They can all perfectly well co-exist...the question is , are you enjoying the game more or less prior to Vivox release. If the answer is yes for a large proportion of the player base, I would say it's mission accomplished. - Sazu
Sgt Napalm Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2007.03.22 03:25:00 - [144] Not worth it
Grez Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.22 04:35:00 - [145] Edited by: Grez on 22/03/2007 04:32:38 The EVE-Voice system puts NO strain on TQ or any part of EVE. All it does is use EVE's UI to relay information that's going to the VIVOX servers, NOT TQ. Those arguing about the price: Yes, it costs more in total than a TS or Vent server for the same amount of people, but... One person has to pay for that TS or Vent server, and members of the corperation or whatnot might not have paypal, or feel safe sending money to that person in real life for a donation. It's also risky when, say a CEO can't buy a TS or Vent server, but a member can and does, and uses it to preasure the CEO to give him director, or such. This way, a small corperation can all spend just $10 each to enable EVE-Voice, and use it to chat amongst themselves, without having to signup to a third-party for voice support. Which is also a task in itself (finding a good third-party suplier). Yes this may not be worth it for the thousand-large alliances, but it was never designed for that. It was designed to help the smaller corperations AGAINST the larger ones that have the people and resources to buy a Teamspeak or Ventrilo server. For god sake people, do your ***** research before you mouth off spouting your tinfoil hat bull**. Half of you have no idea why this was done, or how it works. If you don't know, then why do you then pretend to, and post it? Vivox worked on EVE-Voice, with I'd imagine a few developers in EVE (and writing UI implimention is nothing for these guys - they write far harder stuff for a living), meaning it took nothing away from content/bug fixing/whatever other area you say is most important to EVE. --- Cache Clearer
Maglorre	Posted - 2007.03.22 04:52:00 - [146] Originally by: Vendito Will also be interesting when we can walk in stations and have Kariokee bars... As long as we can also have big sharp pointy things that we can stab these people in the head with then I'm all for it. Particularly if doing so would strangle them with their own headset cables.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 05:25:00 - [147] Edited by: Ryysa on 22/03/2007 05:23:32 Small summary of positive and negative points. Positive: 1. Complete integration into the game, one-click voicechat in any place in the game. 2. No need for 3rd party applications. (I really can't find anything more...) Negative: 1. Complete integration into the game - if game crashes/disconnects, so does your VoIP. Also, if for example you would like to play some <insert game here> for a change with your friends and use VoIP you would still have to have a 3rd party program or hope that VoIP is integrated with that game. However, this will solve itself once ALL multiplayer games incorporate VoIP. 2. Steep price, cost/user is about 3 times less with current 3rd party software, not to mention that for example TeamSpeak can be hosted for free(excluding hosting costs) on a shell you have to host your corporate website/services or even just on a random box you use for work in the IT department in a datacentre. 3. Introducing the "Premium" RL money-reward scheme into EvE. I think if this is pursued, it will destroy this online community. This is just the first step. 4. Strain on the game interface in the EvE client. Did you know that while you are playing eve, about 66% of your computer's resources are used on rendering/processing the UI? Try hitting ctrl+tab for a change when running fraps FPS counter. Over all, I can say that the negatives currently heavily outweigh the positives. Suggestion: 1. Make the voice free, or transparently free (increase subscription cost for EVERYONE). This will deal with the majority of disadvantages, while still retaining the advantages imo. N.F.F. Recruitment
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.03.22 05:40:00 - [148] The problem with the vivox "solution" is that it does not take into account HOW the gaming population uses voice comms. We don't only use voice comms for fleet ops, we use it for late night bull sessions even when Eve is down. I know several gaming clans who use the same comms server for multiple games. Vivox is a bad solution because it is integrated into the Eve client, making it less functional than Teamspeak, while at the same time adding more code to the Eve client and taking up clock cycles. I don't know if you realize this but most top end alliances run bare minimum HUDs, why would they waste clock cycles on Vivox functionality such as finding out where other gang members are, I assume that functionality needs extra packets going back and forth, and extra processing overhead for displaying who is speaking and so forth. Doesn't that go against "Need for Speed?" Need for Speed doesn't mean adding more syruppy bullschit to the client to degrade its performance.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE The Foundation.	Posted - 2007.03.22 10:54:00 - [149] Just imagine the revenue if only the 5 largest alliances had all its members in vivox. WTF! 60 thousand dollars.. where probably currently their combined expenditure on voice is less than 100 dollars per year. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:03:00 - [150] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 22/03/2007 11:01:58 Originally by: Cipher7 The problem with the vivox "solution" is that it does not take into account HOW the gaming population uses voice comms. And the problem with your post is that is does exactly the same. Oh, and also you flat out state opinion as fact. But that's par for the course in this thread. - If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine.



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