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Thou shall pew pew.

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Originally by: Geldorf Drakar

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I must say that I am severly dissapointed with CCP decision to include a voice client into EVE. As well I am supprised at CCPs naivety, thinking that Users would turn to an integrated voice client which they have to pay for, when nearly everyone has a TS or Vent server available for use, free I might add.

One must ask why anyone would prefer to use a integrated client that costs more to use and has vastly inferior quality than TS or Vent, not to mention the fact that TS and Vent contain features EVE Voice simply does not have.

Generally I support everything CCP does with EVE from new content to changes in modules but in this case I must strongly object. I am sure that had the time that was wasted upon EVE voice could have been better used to correct bugs and lag issues within EVE, rather than implimenting something inferior to the tools the EVE community allready has.

I wouldnt even be supprised if EVE voice causes increased lag issues.

Fix lag and bugs and develop new content before you start doing things that dont need to be done at all CCP.

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Originally by: Geldorf Drakar

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I must say that I am severly dissapointed with CCP decision to include a voice client into EVE. As well I am supprised at CCPs naivety, thinking that Users would turn to an integrated voice client which they have to pay for, when nearly everyone has a TS or Vent server available for use, free I might add.

One must ask why anyone would prefer to use a integrated client that costs more to use and has vastly inferior quality than TS or Vent, not to mention the fact that TS and Vent contain features EVE Voice simply does not have.

Generally I support everything CCP does with EVE from new content to changes in modules but in this case I must strongly object. I am sure that had the time that was wasted upon EVE voice could have been better used to correct bugs and lag issues within EVE, rather than implimenting something inferior to the tools the EVE community allready has.

I wouldnt even be supprised if EVE voice causes increased lag issues.

Fix lag and bugs and develop new content before you start doing things that dont need to be done at all CCP.

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Originally by: Geldorf Drakar

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As well I am supprised at CCPs naivety, thinking that Users would turn to an integrated voice client which they have to pay for, when nearly everyone has a TS or Vent server available for use, free I might add.

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Originally by: Geldorf Drakar

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One must ask why anyone would prefer to use a integrated client that costs more to use and has vastly inferior quality than TS or Vent, not to mention the fact that TS and Vent contain features EVE Voice simply does not have.

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Originally by: Geldorf Drakar

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I am sure that had the time that was wasted upon EVE voice could have been better used to correct bugs and lag issues within EVE, rather than implimenting something inferior to the tools the EVE community allready has.

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Originally by: Geldorf Drakar

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I wouldnt even be supprised if EVE voice causes increased lag issues.

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Originally by: Geldorf Drakar

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Fix lag and bugs and develop new content before you start doing things that dont need to be done at all CCP.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Edited by: Crumplecorn on 20/03/2007 23:28:55
Ha ha, having just tested Vivox by logging my main and my alt and talking to myself using the corp channel, I realised that the one area wher Vivox will truly pwn is in small scale stuff like this.

Voice chat with all the people in any channel (except local) is only one click away.

TS/Vent can't do that. And Vivox can do everything TS/Vent can do (except OOG, which is apparently coming in the future).

Vivox > All


Even if Vivox fails in the alliance/fleetop arena (and it may yet suceed), it really adds to Eve that anywhere where we could once type to each other we can now talk to each other instead with such ease.

Useless feature? Try 'one of the best additions in recent times'.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Edited by: Crumplecorn on 20/03/2007 23:28:55
Ha ha, having just tested Vivox by logging my main and my alt and talking to myself using the corp channel, I realised that the one area wher Vivox will truly pwn is in small scale stuff like this.

Voice chat with all the people in any channel (except local) is only one click away.

TS/Vent can't do that. And Vivox can do everything TS/Vent can do (except OOG, which is apparently coming in the future).

Vivox > All


Even if Vivox fails in the alliance/fleetop arena (and it may yet suceed), it really adds to Eve that anywhere where we could once type to each other we can now talk to each other instead with such ease.

Useless feature? Try 'one of the best additions in recent times'.

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Originally by: CHAOS100

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Edited by: Crumplecorn on 20/03/2007 23:28:55
Ha ha, having just tested Vivox by logging my main and my alt and talking to myself using the corp channel, I realised that the one area wher Vivox will truly pwn is in small scale stuff like this.

Voice chat with all the people in any channel (except local) is only one click away.

TS/Vent can't do that. And Vivox can do everything TS/Vent can do (except OOG, which is apparently coming in the future).

Vivox > All


Even if Vivox fails in the alliance/fleetop arena (and it may yet suceed), it really adds to Eve that anywhere where we could once type to each other we can now talk to each other instead with such ease.

Useless feature? Try 'one of the best additions in recent times'.

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Why would you want to talk to everyone in every channel? Seems like easy ability to spam and easy to embarass yourself in several ways I wont bother mentioning. And btw it IS possible in vent, as are many things... and people just don't use them... because those features are just THAT useful /sarcasm.

What if 1 person doesn't pay for vivox, then it will be pointless to make a voice mail to corp or to talk during any operation. Also, quality doesn't beat vent unfortunately.

It will probably cause lag in the same way gang bonuses cause lag in fleets.

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Originally by: Ice Conch

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In soviet russia, soap drops you!

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Originally by: Geldorf Drakar

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when nearly everyone has a TS or Vent server available for use, free I might add.

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Originally by: CHAOS100

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Why would you want to talk to everyone in every channel? Seems like easy ability to spam and easy to embarass yourself in several ways I wont bother mentioning. And btw it IS possible in vent, as are many things... and people just don't use them... because those features are just THAT useful /sarcasm.

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Originally by: CHAOS100

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What if 1 person doesn't pay for vivox, then it will be pointless to make a voice mail to corp or to talk during any operation. Also, quality doesn't beat vent unfortunately.

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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That's actually my biggest problem with eve-voice. In order to be useful, everyone in the corp's going to have to get it. Or, I could just keep paying what's just 'not all that much' (to me) for a vent server.

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Originally by: Geldorf Drakar

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I must say that I am severly dissapointed with CCP decision to include a voice client into EVE. As well I am supprised at CCPs naivety, thinking that Users would turn to an integrated voice client which they have to pay for, when nearly everyone has a TS or Vent server available for use, free I might add.

One must ask why anyone would prefer to use a integrated client that costs more to use and has vastly inferior quality than TS or Vent, not to mention the fact that TS and Vent contain features EVE Voice simply does not have.

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Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr

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Do you really think there is any corp or alliance out there, which relies on voice communication that is going to have even close to the majority of its members buying this feature? No? So what's the point of anyone buying it if your corperation/alliance isn't going to use it because a large portion of your member base can't afford it?

I'm half expecting to see threads in recruitment asking for 'VOIP Only' but to be honest, it'll be their loss when they limit their recruitment pool to such an extent.

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Originally by: Tractormech

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I don't mine. Therefore mining is useless and should be removed from the game. DEVs stop working on mining and remove this useless feature.

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Originally by: Tractormech

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I don't mine. Therefore mining is useless and should be removed from the game. DEVs stop working on mining and remove this useless feature.

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Quote:

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Quote:

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I'm half expecting to see threads in recruitment asking for 'VOIP Only' but to be honest, it'll be their loss when they limit their recruitment pool to such an extent.

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We are talking about a bunch of people who pay 15 euros (or equiv) or a multiple of this per month for Eve, but can't afford an additional <1 euro for integrated voice.

This is a very small demographic, excluding it really won't cause you any problems.

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Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker

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I am going to get EVE Voice. This because the sound quality will be way better! TS/Vent sucks big time. The quality of the sound is Les horribles!

Viewed in that light, 10 dollar a year is to me nothing!

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Originally by: Hllaxiu

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Edited by: Hllaxiu on 21/03/2007 00:14:59

Quote:

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Quote:

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I'm half expecting to see threads in recruitment asking for 'VOIP Only' but to be honest, it'll be their loss when they limit their recruitment pool to such an extent.

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We are talking about a bunch of people who pay 15 euros (or equiv) or a multiple of this per month for Eve, but can't afford an additional <1 euro for integrated voice.

This is a very small demographic, excluding it really won't cause you any problems.

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I'm expecting alliances to say "Instead of giving that $1 (or 1 euro or pound or whatever) to CCP, send it via the paypal link to us, so we can buy a really awesome TS server!"

I mean, 1000 person alliance times $1 a month can buy a lot of server.

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Originally by: Vabjekf

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TS/Vent are better for anything you need voice com for.
As people have stated above, more controll, and the ability to not lose it if eve crashs <- important

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Originally by: Vabjekf

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As far as normal chatting? This is the internet, not some floozy voicemail service. Use text

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Originally by: Vabjekf

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Im actualy happy about this pay thing. It will ensure that nobody will use it because its not useful unless everyone has acess to it, but that would be disasterous as you would get wierdos trying to voice convo you to negotiate prices for isogen or something -_-

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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This is likely a troll, but I'll bite...

Originally by: Vabjekf

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TS/Vent are better for anything you need voice com for.
As people have stated above, more controll, and the ability to not lose it if eve crashs <- important

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Wrong, wrong, and getting fixed, respectively.

Originally by: Vabjekf

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As far as normal chatting? This is the internet, not some floozy voicemail service. Use text

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Find out what the second M in MMORPG is for.
You must have no friends or **** friends if you never talk to them.

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Originally by: Vabjekf

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Im actualy happy about this pay thing. It will ensure that nobody will use it because its not useful unless everyone has acess to it, but that would be disasterous as you would get wierdos trying to voice convo you to negotiate prices for isogen or something -_-

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Originally by: Vabjekf

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You have obviously never played a game that had intigrated free voice communication.

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Originally by: Vabjekf

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You become required to use it at all times everywhere. And you get to listen to random people laughing at themselves or freaking out or paniking or generaly being idiots and asses and whatnot. Little kids or high strung wierdos.

Its kind of funny at times. But the problem is that you are never able to turn it off or else you basicaly just may aswell turn the whole game off because nobody will play with you.

The fact that this has a required pay means that everyone can not expect everyone to have it, and therefore it will not become the default means of communication. This is a gigantic blessing. Because games like DDO which had intigrated voice where just terrible to play sometimes because you had to listen to play but listening was so painful=p

Voice is good for situations where it actualy helps. But all the time? Dont people ever like to listen to music anymore? Or just sit in silence sometimes?

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Edited by: Crumplecorn on 21/03/2007 01:16:16

Originally by: Vabjekf

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You become required to use it at all times everywhere. And you get to listen to random people laughing at themselves or freaking out or paniking or generaly being idiots and asses and whatnot. Little kids or high strung wierdos.

Its kind of funny at times. But the problem is that you are never able to turn it off or else you basicaly just may aswell turn the whole game off because nobody will play with you.

The fact that this has a required pay means that everyone can not expect everyone to have it, and therefore it will not become the default means of communication. This is a gigantic blessing. Because games like DDO which had intigrated voice where just terrible to play sometimes because you had to listen to play but listening was so painful=p

Voice is good for situations where it actualy helps. But all the time? Dont people ever like to listen to music anymore? Or just sit in silence sometimes?

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I don't know exactly how the systems you are referring to are implemented, but in Vivox each channel is essentially its own voice server. This problem will occur no more with Vivox than it did with TS/Vent.

For those for whom VOIP will be required, it already is required. For the rest of us, it will always be optional.

Plus in Eve you can shoot people who act the maggot.

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Originally by: Smagd

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Originally by: Geldorf Drakar

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As well I am supprised at CCPs naivety, thinking that Users would turn to an integrated voice client which they have to pay for, when nearly everyone has a TS or Vent server available for use, free I might add.

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You have someone who provides free TS servers? As in noone has to pay their bandwidth? Sign me up please, I'll bring 400 alliance mates.

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Originally by: Armin Novastorm

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Edited by: Crumplecorn on 21/03/2007 01:16:16

Originally by: Vabjekf

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You become required to use it at all times everywhere. And you get to listen to random people laughing at themselves or freaking out or paniking or generaly being idiots and asses and whatnot. Little kids or high strung wierdos.

Its kind of funny at times. But the problem is that you are never able to turn it off or else you basicaly just may aswell turn the whole game off because nobody will play with you.

The fact that this has a required pay means that everyone can not expect everyone to have it, and therefore it will not become the default means of communication. This is a gigantic blessing. Because games like DDO which had intigrated voice where just terrible to play sometimes because you had to listen to play but listening was so painful=p

Voice is good for situations where it actualy helps. But all the time? Dont people ever like to listen to music anymore? Or just sit in silence sometimes?

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I don't know exactly how the systems you are referring to are implemented, but in Vivox each channel is essentially its own voice server. This problem will occur no more with Vivox than it did with TS/Vent.

For those for whom VOIP will be required, it already is required. For the rest of us, it will always be optional.

Plus in Eve you can shoot people who act the maggot.

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Not in high sec, but im guessin you almost never go there.

P.S. Cant find the difficulty slider, can you help me locate it?

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Originally by: Armin Novastorm

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Edited by: Crumplecorn on 21/03/2007 01:16:16

Originally by: Vabjekf

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You become required to use it at all times everywhere. And you get to listen to random people laughing at themselves or freaking out or paniking or generaly being idiots and asses and whatnot. Little kids or high strung wierdos.

Its kind of funny at times. But the problem is that you are never able to turn it off or else you basicaly just may aswell turn the whole game off because nobody will play with you.

The fact that this has a required pay means that everyone can not expect everyone to have it, and therefore it will not become the default means of communication. This is a gigantic blessing. Because games like DDO which had intigrated voice where just terrible to play sometimes because you had to listen to play but listening was so painful=p

Voice is good for situations where it actualy helps. But all the time? Dont people ever like to listen to music anymore? Or just sit in silence sometimes?

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I don't know exactly how the systems you are referring to are implemented, but in Vivox each channel is essentially its own voice server. This problem will occur no more with Vivox than it did with TS/Vent.

For those for whom VOIP will be required, it already is required. For the rest of us, it will always be optional.

Plus in Eve you can shoot people who act the maggot.

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Not in high sec, but im guessin you almost never go there.

P.S. Cant find the difficulty slider, can you help me locate it?

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Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr

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Do you really think there is any corp or alliance out there, which relies on voice communication that is going to have even close to the majority of its members buying this feature? No? So what's the point of anyone buying it if your corperation/alliance isn't going to use it because a large portion of your member base can't afford it?

I'm half expecting to see threads in recruitment asking for 'VOIP Only' but to be honest, it'll be their loss when they limit their recruitment pool to such an extent.

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Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr

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Do you really think there is any corp or alliance out there, which relies on voice communication that is going to have even close to the majority of its members buying this feature? No? So what's the point of anyone buying it if your corperation/alliance isn't going to use it because a large portion of your member base can't afford it?

I'm half expecting to see threads in recruitment asking for 'VOIP Only' but to be honest, it'll be their loss when they limit their recruitment pool to such an extent.

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Originally by: Soulita

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Edited by: Soulita on 21/03/2007 02:14:10
Edited by: Soulita on 21/03/2007 02:05:25

Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr

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Do you really think there is any corp or alliance out there, which relies on voice communication that is going to have even close to the majority of its members buying this feature? No? So what's the point of anyone buying it if your corperation/alliance isn't going to use it because a large portion of your member base can't afford it?

I'm half expecting to see threads in recruitment asking for 'VOIP Only' but to be honest, it'll be their loss when they limit their recruitment pool to such an extent.

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Exactly.

Voip is anti-social because it costs extra, and because it splits the community. Fairly bad for a piece of software that is meant for communication.

Also fairly bad to introduce anti-social software into an mmorpg. Sort of counter-productive.

If Voip was free, like voice com is in many other games, it might make sense.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Soulita

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Edited by: Soulita on 21/03/2007 02:14:10
Edited by: Soulita on 21/03/2007 02:05:25

Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr

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Do you really think there is any corp or alliance out there, which relies on voice communication that is going to have even close to the majority of its members buying this feature? No? So what's the point of anyone buying it if your corperation/alliance isn't going to use it because a large portion of your member base can't afford it?

I'm half expecting to see threads in recruitment asking for 'VOIP Only' but to be honest, it'll be their loss when they limit their recruitment pool to such an extent.

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Exactly.

Voip is anti-social because it costs extra, and because it splits the community. Fairly bad for a piece of software that is meant for communication.

Also fairly bad to introduce anti-social software into an mmorpg. Sort of counter-productive.

If Voip was free, like voice com is in many other games, it might make sense.

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To find out why this argument is crap, read up.

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Originally by: Depp Knight

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If the voice client crashes when the game is down then that would just suck, period. DoesnÆt matter what other features it has, thatÆs a huge flaw. I honestly believe if that was the case that most large alliance would continue to use their 3rd party program for voice communication. Also the price is a bit steep. TS is not free but for a large corp/alliance to pay 15 dollars/euros or whatever it is per person, is expensive. Think about it, a 200 player alliance decides they want to use it, it will cost 3 grand total. Now what I do know that TS does not cost 3 grand to use every year. Also what if you leave a corp that use this eve speak and join one that doesnÆt. You have just pretty much wasted your cash for a feature that you will rarely use.

IMO itÆs just an up sell for a product. Just a way to get more money to CCP but unless the price drops down and the voice com doesnÆt crash and the maintenance of it is only used in large patch days then I donÆt see a reason for one to use it. Of course to have the ability to chat to anyone in the world of eve is great however would you pay for that plus eve subscription to chat to strangers?

From what I read it has some great features but the 2 major flaws, Price, and crashing is a step in the wrong direction.

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Originally by: Salusa VC

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You miss the point. If each and every one of your alliance mates pay up for IVC thats $4k.

I reckon you can get some dedicated TS/Vent bandwith for a fraction of that, dont you?

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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I mean, 1000 person alliance times $1 a month can buy a lot of server.

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Originally by: Latex Sandals

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That's an easy choice. I'll take the non-integrated server that is running on a second computer so that it doesn't lag out the main one.

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Originally by: Latex Sandals

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I'll take the free option that has superior sound quality and that doesn't crash when the game client does.

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Originally by: Baleorg

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in fact when you DONT subscribe you wont even notice its there since it wont

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Originally by: Esurnir

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Are graphist able to fix bug ? Are vivox people able to change the queuing system of the server ? No. They are people working for bug, they are people working for new content, most of new content manpower can't be switched to bug fixxing.

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Originally by: Karim alRashid

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I'd like to know what measures are taken to prevent devs, GMs, etc. from eavesdropping on enemy alliance/corp channels (where applicable).

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Originally by: Karim alRashid

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I'd like to know what measures are taken to prevent devs, GMs, etc. from eavesdropping on enemy alliance/corp channels (where applicable).

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Originally by: Cosmos Elf

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400 member corp total cost for Eve Voice:

$4000/year or $333.34/month

400 member corp total cost for Teamspeak:

$960/year or $80/month (Based on a quick google for prices. There is possibly cheaper hosting out there.)

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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Originally by: CHAOS100

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Edited by: Crumplecorn on 20/03/2007 23:28:55
Ha ha, having just tested Vivox by logging my main and my alt and talking to myself using the corp channel, I realised that the one area wher Vivox will truly pwn is in small scale stuff like this.

Voice chat with all the people in any channel (except local) is only one click away.

TS/Vent can't do that. And Vivox can do everything TS/Vent can do (except OOG, which is apparently coming in the future).

Vivox > All


Even if Vivox fails in the alliance/fleetop arena (and it may yet suceed), it really adds to Eve that anywhere where we could once type to each other we can now talk to each other instead with such ease.

Useless feature? Try 'one of the best additions in recent times'.

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Why would you want to talk to everyone in every channel? Seems like easy ability to spam and easy to embarass yourself in several ways I wont bother mentioning. And btw it IS possible in vent, as are many things... and people just don't use them... because those features are just THAT useful /sarcasm.

What if 1 person doesn't pay for vivox, then it will be pointless to make a voice mail to corp or to talk during any operation. Also, quality doesn't beat vent unfortunately.

It will probably cause lag in the same way gang bonuses cause lag in fleets.

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That's actually my biggest problem with eve-voice. In order to be useful, everyone in the corp's going to have to get it. Or, I could just keep paying what's just 'not all that much' (to me) for a vent server.

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Originally by: Diana Marc

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Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.

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Originally by: w0rmy

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Originally by: Baleorg

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in fact when you DONT subscribe you wont even notice its there since it wont

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Oh you mean like not noticing local appear?
The bug he wont have to experience because hes not using Vivox?

It has already caused bugs, the same thing CCP swore black and blue it wouldnt.
Whether we use it or not, we all get the bugs that come with it.

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Originally by: Cosmos Elf

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400 member corp total cost for Eve Voice:

$4000/year or $333.34/month

400 member corp total cost for Teamspeak:

$960/year or $80/month (Based on a quick google for prices. There is possibly cheaper hosting out there.)

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Originally by: Harisdrop

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What happens if you have two accounts. Does this VIVOX subscription work for both?

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Originally by: Baleorg

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Originally by: Harisdrop

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What happens if you have two accounts. Does this VIVOX subscription work for both?

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does your creditcard subscription work for both accounts?
no... of course not... each account has its own subscription, silly :-P

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Originally by: Benco97

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What you going to do, give them you're server details so they can log on to your ventrillo or simply use the eve voice ans send them a mighty "ARR!"
I rest my case.

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Originally by: Winterblink

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To be honest, I was pretty skeptical about it, I mean I've used TS or Ventrilo for tons of different MMOs. They're definitely not perfect, but they get the job done overall.

Then I went to Fanfest, and heard about the possibilities the Vivox solution offers.

My biggest issue was that CCP was just going to toss in a VOIP feature adding no value, for a few extra bucks a month from people. But the possibilities for integration into EVE are quite astonishing. I don't know many who weren't impressed who were there. Would all of those possibilities be here during the first implementation? It was basically stated that the feature set supported would be up to CCP, and if they include basic stuff to start and add more robust features later when things have settled then that's fine by me.

Thing is, there's a lot this can offer that TS and Ventrilo cannot. We may not be seeing it right now (and may not for a while, or even ever in the case of some things), but the possibilities are quite intriguing.

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Originally by: Soulita

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I have said it before and will say it again. By splitting the community, as it is doing the way it is introduced, it is an anti-social feature and has no place in an mmorpg.

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Originally by: Winterblink

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Originally by: Soulita

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I have said it before and will say it again. By splitting the community, as it is doing the way it is introduced, it is an anti-social feature and has no place in an mmorpg.

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So you're basically against the disparity between the haves and have-nots, not against the feature itself or the additional charges for it, if I'm reading your entire post right.

Personally I don't agree with your labeling of the feature as "antisocial", but I can understand where you're coming from.

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Originally by: Soulita

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The problem with the feature is, it is in effect an add on that costs RL extra money. Splitting the community and breaking CCPs promise not to charge extra for add ons.

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Originally by: Gaia Thorn

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o yeah forgot.

What happend to all eve exspansions are FREE ??
Seeing that this is a exspansion to the game ccp is sorta breking their biggest selling point.
For me this is a slippery slope when introducing "premium" features to the game.

This could lead to us paying for expansions and hell even ships and mods if you want to make it extreme.
T1 = start stuff
T2 = better T1 stuff
T3 = solo pwn mobile stuff for RL cash

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Originally by: Winterblink

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Originally by: Soulita

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The problem with the feature is, it is in effect an add on that costs RL extra money. Splitting the community and breaking CCPs promise not to charge extra for add ons.

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CCP's "promise" was not to charge extra for expansion content. You don't NEED this to play EVE, not having it won't keep you from flying to any place you want, or getting access to new ships and gear. The Voice stuff is not new complexes, new NPCs, new deployable gear for POSes, or anything like that.

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Originally by: Soulita

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This is not entirely correct. If a corp of your friends for example turns "Voip only", and you dont have it, then in effect you wont be able to effectively fly complexes, hunt new npcs etc etc with them.

There is a difference between primary directly visible effects, and those that are more indirect but still true and just as important.

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Originally by: Winterblink

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Originally by: Soulita

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This is not entirely correct. If a corp of your friends for example turns "Voip only", and you dont have it, then in effect you wont be able to effectively fly complexes, hunt new npcs etc etc with them.

Making the feature

a) anti-social
b) limiting access to game content to you (if you dont want to switch friends because of the new 'feature')

There is a difference between primary directly visible effects, and those that are more indirect but still true and just as important.

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TS and Ventrilo do that right now when it comes to fleet combat.

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Originally by: Soulita

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Somehow yes, but there is a difference.

Alliances or corps using Vent or TS can invite you to fly with them. They just give you a guest access to their TS or Vent. This will cost you nothing. Look at Burn Edens downtime TS for example. Unlike vivox this has a community combining effect, not a splitting one like vivox.

If you want to fly with a corp or alliance that uses vivox you would have to subscribe to vivox and pay for it. Fairly big difference.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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And Vivox can do everything TS/Vent can do

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Originally by: Cosmos Elf

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400 member corp total cost for Eve Voice:

$4000/year or $333.34/month

400 member corp total cost for Teamspeak:

$960/year or $80/month (Based on a quick google for prices. There is possibly cheaper hosting out there.)

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Originally by: Winterblink

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You seem to be bouncing between two main points: cost (barrier to entry, if you will), and exclusion from content.

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Originally by: Winterblink

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Now previously you posted a suggestion for them to bump the monthly subscription cost up so everyone gets the feature. I read that as that you're really not concerned about the cost of the feature, correct? Yet as evidenced above, you still keep coming back to it as a point of contention.

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Originally by: Winterblink

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If that's so, then your argument of it being antisocial (the exclusion bit) is entirely without merit, since you have no issues with the barrier to entry. Thus whether it's integrated into the default subscription or not doesn't seem to matter, based on the rest of your posts.

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Originally by: Winterblink

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Just trying to understand what your issue with it really is, that's all.

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Originally by: Soulita

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The more people use vivox, the less extra charge is neccesary per person to break even or make a profit with it.

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Originally by: Soulita

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Still, a slight increase of subscription fee for everyone (lets say 1% to 3%) would have a similar financial effect for CCP/vivox as charging a lot extra for it for some (around 7% as it is now), while at the same time bringing the added benefit that vivox could turn from a community splitting into a community combining feature, since everyone could use it.

Hope that helped.

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Originally by: Winterblink

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Originally by: Soulita

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Hope that helped.

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Yes, but I still entirely disagree with you...TS..Vent...

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Originally by: Soulita

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Alliances or corps using Vent or TS can invite you to fly with them. They just give you guest access to their TS or Vent. This will cost you nothing. Look at Burn Edens downtime TS for example. This has a community combining effect, not a splitting one like vivox.

If you want to fly with a corp or alliance that uses vivox you would have to subscribe to vivox and pay for it. Fairly big difference, and not a good one.

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Originally by: Soulita

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Honestly winter, you are disappointing me a bit. Vivox is splitting the community as it is introduced atm, vivox costs more than it could/should etc. And you still keep protecting it?

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Originally by: Soulita

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Incorrect. It is very likely not everyone - actually maybe only a minority of people - will choose to purchase the vivox service - due to the relatively high extra cost (Around 7% extra).

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Originally by: Soulita

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The more people use vivox, the less extra charge is neccesary per person to break even or make a profit with it. Of course there is a limit on how cheap it can get due to bandwith useage.

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Originally by: Soulita

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Still, a slight increase of subscription fee for everyone (lets say 1% to 3%) would have a similar financial effect for CCP/vivox as charging a lot extra for it for some (around 7% as it is now). At the same time this would turn vivox from a community splitting into a community combining feature, since everyone could use it.

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Originally by: Ogul

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Basically this is just an increase in subscription fees by approx. 8% (monthly payment assumed), at some point everybody will just have to use it.

What I don't like is that a CTD/disconnect will now disrupt all communications. I haven't tried it, but does client lag influence voice communication too?

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Originally by: Winterblink

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Nobody HAS to use it...

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Originally by: Soulita

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This is not entirely correct. If a corp of your friends for example turns "Voip only", and you dont have it, then in effect you wont be able to effectively fly complexes, hunt new npcs etc etc with them.

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Originally by: Harisdrop

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I hope Vent and TS go the way of dual MWD.

It was a fad but now fleets that are run with VIVOX will run more efficient. People will get VIVOX cause its makes your gaming better. Soo sad we wont see you old schooler there.

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Originally by: Soulita

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And please winter, stop making me quote again what I already said. If you have no new arguments, let it be.

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Originally by: Winterblink

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Originally by: Soulita

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And please winter, stop making me quote again what I already said. If you have no new arguments, let it be.

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Please. All you seem to be able to do is say "you're wrong" and quote something you said earlier, instead of actually addressing what was said. That's not discussing, that's not even arguing (for the record, I was doing the former, not the latter).

And I "let it be" back when I said I understood what you were getting at, just disagreed with it.

fin

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Originally by: Soulita

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repeated stuff over and over getting more stressed with each post

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Originally by: Juwi Kotch

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Soulita, of course you are correct with the community splitting point. Since I don't like repetition either, I only say that you have explained it well enough several times already.

Don't understand what's so difficult to see that...

Juwi Kotch

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Originally by: Grez

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3)
EVE-Voice uses the Vivox servers, not TQ, or any of the EVE servers. Meaning it doesn't induce strain on the server(s).

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Originally by: Grez

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5)
Whilst some people prefer third-party programs, others don't have two screens, or run the game in windowed mode. Therefor, they cannot see who is talking without asking "Who said that?". Intergrating Vivox into EVE makes it easier to see who is talking, and what is going on. If Jimmybob says "Enemy coming", you can instantly see who said it, and who they are (he may be set as group A's scout).

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Originally by: Salusa VC

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You miss the point. If each and every one of your alliance mates pay up for IVC thats $4k.

I reckon you can get some dedicated TS/Vent bandwith for a fraction of that, dont you?

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Originally by: Ogul

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Originally by: Grez

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3)
EVE-Voice uses the Vivox servers, not TQ, or any of the EVE servers. Meaning it doesn't induce strain on the server(s).

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It's just that the EVE-client has the nasty habit of freezing in certain situations (e. g. loading the grid). This is where the additional strain of the integrated Vivox functionality comes in.

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Quote:

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Originally by: Grez

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5)
Whilst some people prefer third-party programs, others don't have two screens, or run the game in windowed mode. Therefor, they cannot see who is talking without asking "Who said that?". Intergrating Vivox into EVE makes it easier to see who is talking, and what is going on. If Jimmybob says "Enemy coming", you can instantly see who said it, and who they are (he may be set as group A's scout).

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Or you could just teach the guys in your gang to include that kind of information when they talk.

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Originally by: Ogul

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What I don't like is that a CTD/disconnect will now disrupt all communications.

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Originally by: Grez

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This has nothing to do with Vivox. I don't think you fully understand how the EVE client works. EVE-Voice is done via a completely different server, it's got nothing to do with grid loading. The voice servers don't have anything to do with information being transfered between players in a grid. Hell, there's not even the need for it.

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Originally by: Grez

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I've been in numerious alliances, and it's all the same. Someone asks a question, ie, "Who can fly interdictors?" and players always reply "Me". This is only the tip of the iceberg, but you can see where I'm coming from, it simply makes things easier and that's all CCP is trying to do - make things easier for us.

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Originally by: Derran

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Originally by: Ogul

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What I don't like is that a CTD/disconnect will now disrupt all communications.

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I'm not understanding this or missing something. How does TS or Vent help in this regard? You can say I crashed and then what? You still can't do anything until you log back in.

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Originally by: Ogul

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To tell the FC that half his gang has crashed instead of jumping an enemy gatecamp.

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Originally by: Derran

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Originally by: Ogul

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To tell the FC that half his gang has crashed instead of jumping an enemy gatecamp.

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Wouldn't he already know this happen when they suddenly disappear from gang? Or when he asks what is happening and gets no response?

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Originally by: Derran

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Apparently an FC will be able to see where people are, via the systemmap, when they talk so you won't even really have to ask where they are.

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Originally by: Derran

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Originally by: Ogul

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To tell the FC that half his gang has crashed instead of jumping an enemy gatecamp.

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Wouldn't he already know this happen when they suddenly disappear from gang? Or when he asks what is happening and gets no response?

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Originally by: Winterblink

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Originally by: Soulita

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And please winter, stop making me quote again what I already said. If you have no new arguments, let it be.

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Please. All you seem to be able to do is say "you're wrong" and quote something you said earlier, instead of actually addressing what was said. That's not discussing, that's not even arguing (for the record, I was doing the former, not the latter).

And I "let it be" back when I said I understood what you were getting at, just disagreed with it.

fin

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Originally by: Cipher7

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Voice client is a crappy idea.

We didn't need it.

You should spend your resources on things that actually improve the game.

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Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf

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Originally by: Cipher7

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Voice client is a crappy idea.

We didn't need it.

You should spend your resources on things that actually improve the game.

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Your ignorance is stunning, did you read the thread at all? Did you find out anything at all about vivox before you posted?

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Originally by: Cipher7

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And thirdly, if you don't have anything constructive to say then shut your cakehole.

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Originally by: Fuujin

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Amazing how many people are so adamant against it. If you dont have a use for it then dont use it, i'm more than sure many people will however. I know i will on certain occasions, certainly not for fleet ops but it does have its uses.

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Originally by: Vendito

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Will also be interesting when we can walk in stations and have Kariokee bars...

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Originally by: Cipher7

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The problem with the vivox "solution" is that it does not take into account HOW the gaming population uses voice comms.

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Originally by: Gaia Thorn

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Still the thing that bothers me is the word "premium" gives the feeeling that only a selected few can use it.

Sure people will use it dont doubt that but see it from another perspective, this game was all about being cost free except your monthly subscription.
Now i know you feel like saying but this isnt ccp's program they just implemented it into THEIR game.

That is what ticks me of by implementing it into the game they inherit the program and it becomes a part of EVE.
And starts to compete with Vent or TS.

For me this is just a start to makes us more at ease with the concept of premium item's or even services.
And in the end you might even have to spend RL money to buy T4 items.
Cause they are deemed "premium".

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Originally by: Grez

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This has nothing to do with Vivox. I don't think you fully understand how the EVE client works. EVE-Voice is done via a completely different server, it's got nothing to do with grid loading. The voice servers don't have anything to do with information being transfered between players in a grid. Hell, there's not even the need for it.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Edited by: Crumplecorn on 20/03/2007 23:28:55
Ha ha, having just tested Vivox by logging my main and my alt and talking to myself using the corp channel, I realised that the one area wher Vivox will truly pwn is in small scale stuff like this.

Voice chat with all the people in any channel (except local) is only one click away.

TS/Vent can't do that. And Vivox can do everything TS/Vent can do (except OOG, which is apparently coming in the future).

Vivox > All


Even if Vivox fails in the alliance/fleetop arena (and it may yet suceed), it really adds to Eve that anywhere where we could once type to each other we can now talk to each other instead with such ease.

Useless feature? Try 'one of the best additions in recent times'.

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Originally by: Neon Genesis

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Edited by: Crumplecorn on 20/03/2007 23:28:55
Ha ha, having just tested Vivox by logging my main and my alt and talking to myself using the corp channel, I realised that the one area wher Vivox will truly pwn is in small scale stuff like this.

Voice chat with all the people in any channel (except local) is only one click away.

TS/Vent can't do that. And Vivox can do everything TS/Vent can do (except OOG, which is apparently coming in the future).

Vivox > All


Even if Vivox fails in the alliance/fleetop arena (and it may yet suceed), it really adds to Eve that anywhere where we could once type to each other we can now talk to each other instead with such ease.

Useless feature? Try 'one of the best additions in recent times'.

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I want to do voice ransoms, even just for the novelty.

Also, 9.95 for a year is an utter pittance.

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Originally by: Smagd

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You have someone who provides free TS servers? As in noone has to pay their bandwidth? Sign me up please, I'll bring 400 alliance mates.

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Originally by: Esurnir

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Are graphist able to fix bug ? Are vivox people able to change the queuing system of the server ? No. They are people working for bug, they are people working for new content, most of new content manpower can't be switched to bug fixxing.

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Originally by: hinch

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Originally by: Smagd

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You have someone who provides free TS servers? As in noone has to pay their bandwidth? Sign me up please, I'll bring 400 alliance mates.

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there are several people including myself who can offer TS servers to corps and alliance with any number of voice slots for ingame isk

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Originally by: Geldorf Drakar

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I must say that I am severly dissapointed with CCP decision to include a voice client into EVE. As well I am supprised at CCPs naivety, thinking that Users would turn to an integrated voice client which they have to pay for, when nearly everyone has a TS or Vent server available for use, free I might add.
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It's Obvious why people would want to use it , its because you can just start talking to people without having to send info for ts - vent and it will cause more outcomes in the game which is a good thing especialy if your bored. hey! just start talking !
But the part I dont like is the fee , EvE is already expensive imo and I dont know if many people will get
Voice so if you get it and not many people will then your screwd. I think it should be free for a while before they charge and I realy think that people who hang in Jita all day will get this and just talk crap lol.

Originally by: Swamp Ziro

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Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 22/03/2007 13:26:10

Originally by: Esurnir

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Are graphist able to fix bug ? Are vivox people able to change the queuing system of the server ? No. They are people working for bug, they are people working for new content, most of new content manpower can't be switched to bug fixxing.

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They are all getting paid from the same money-pool smarty pants. Don't hire vivox people, hire more bugfixers.

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Originally by: CCP Sharkbait

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think the problem is found. last startup now.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Swamp Ziro

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Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 22/03/2007 13:26:10

Originally by: Esurnir

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Are graphist able to fix bug ? Are vivox people able to change the queuing system of the server ? No. They are people working for bug, they are people working for new content, most of new content manpower can't be switched to bug fixxing.

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They are all getting paid from the same money-pool smarty pants. Don't hire vivox people, hire more bugfixers.

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Ooh, yeah, let's have people who are new to the code fixing the bugs.

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Originally by: Swamp Ziro

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Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 22/03/2007 14:05:29

Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Swamp Ziro

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Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 22/03/2007 13:26:10

Originally by: Esurnir

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Are graphist able to fix bug ? Are vivox people able to change the queuing system of the server ? No. They are people working for bug, they are people working for new content, most of new content manpower can't be switched to bug fixxing.

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They are all getting paid from the same money-pool smarty pants. Don't hire vivox people, hire more bugfixers.

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Ooh, yeah, let's have people who are new to the code fixing the bugs.

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Look I don't care. Don't hire vivox people and use the money to buy Sharkbait some beers, I don't give a damn.

Just don't waste money.

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Originally by: CCP Sharkbait

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think the problem is found. last startup now.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Swamp Ziro

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Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 22/03/2007 14:05:29

Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Swamp Ziro

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Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 22/03/2007 13:26:10

Originally by: Esurnir

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Are graphist able to fix bug ? Are vivox people able to change the queuing system of the server ? No. They are people working for bug, they are people working for new content, most of new content manpower can't be switched to bug fixxing.

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They are all getting paid from the same money-pool smarty pants. Don't hire vivox people, hire more bugfixers.

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Ooh, yeah, let's have people who are new to the code fixing the bugs.

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Look I don't care. Don't hire vivox people and use the money to buy Sharkbait some beers, I don't give a damn.

Just don't waste money.

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It's not a waste of money, and throwing money at problems doesn't solve them.


If that logic is going to be used, can I request that missions are removed, anyone who is employed to work on them be fired, and more money is put into real content? No? Thought not.

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Originally by: Swamp Ziro

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Swamp Ziro

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Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 22/03/2007 14:05:29

Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Swamp Ziro

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Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 22/03/2007 13:26:10

Originally by: Esurnir

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Are graphist able to fix bug ? Are vivox people able to change the queuing system of the server ? No. They are people working for bug, they are people working for new content, most of new content manpower can't be switched to bug fixxing.

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They are all getting paid from the same money-pool smarty pants. Don't hire vivox people, hire more bugfixers.

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Ooh, yeah, let's have people who are new to the code fixing the bugs.

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Look I don't care. Don't hire vivox people and use the money to buy Sharkbait some beers, I don't give a damn.

Just don't waste money.

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It's not a waste of money, and throwing money at problems doesn't solve them.


If that logic is going to be used, can I request that missions are removed, anyone who is employed to work on them be fired, and more money is put into real content? No? Thought not.

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No, because some people like missions. I've yet to see a person that likes vivox.

Also, throwing money at some problems DOES solve them, especially problems like "we don't have enough money!!:("

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Originally by: CCP Sharkbait

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think the problem is found. last startup now.

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Originally by: Swamp Ziro

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No, because some people like missions. I've yet to see a person that likes vivox.

Also, throwing money at some problems DOES solve them, especially problems like "we don't have enough money!!:

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Originally by: Gaia Thorn

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But that's just the thing if they would implement the feature of you buying T2 item straight away you would voilently reject it.
But slowly and incremently subject users to such functions and words will make them accustomed to it.

This is the feeling im getting that slowly creeping towards that goal.
1 GTC (RL money for ingame item/time)
2 Voice (start easing in premium services)
3 Items (start selling T2 item for RL cash to reduce load on market)
4 all out sales of everything ( buy youre way to the top)

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Originally by: Ryysa

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You do realize that by offering people TS servers for isk you have to pay for a commercial TS license, or you are infringing intellectual property laws. That means you have to pay them per slot.

If you aren't then you are basically doing software piracy (according to their license).

If someone sends them a mail about it/they find out about it, you can expect:
1. For your server to get blacklisted.
2. Your ISP getting a warning, and after that you might be facing a lawsuit.

Ofcourse, this does not really apply if you live in a country where copyright laws are not enforced.

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Originally by: Vendito

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security.

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Originally by: Grez

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The EVE-Voice system puts NO strain on TQ or any part of EVE. All it does is use EVE's UI to relay information that's going to the VIVOX servers, NOT TQ.

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