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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5294
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Posted - 2016.10.12 17:57:56 -
[121] - Quote
Brusanan wrote:How will these new EULA changes affect Twitch streamers who occasionally raffle prizes off to their stream viewers?
Oh for good's sake, raffles and lotteries are both gambling. That is there is a probability of winning a prize much larger than the stake you put down. Based on this simple and plain definition it is gambling. Best advice, don't do it.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Robin Wren
Attack Kittens
2
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Posted - 2016.10.12 17:58:24 -
[122] - Quote
It's a shame that eve bet which just did a fantastic job with the at streaming is also going to be nuked from orbit. If this is a knee jerk reaction to the mess happening over cs:go then it makes some sense, if this is simply about rmt then surely you are actually helping the people that want to destroy our game win.... Just my point of view on things.
We really need a black and white clarification on what is covered by games of chance.
Skill games? (they all involve an element of chance it seems) Third party services? (there is a chance 3rd party could walk, although it's low) Hosting services? Lotteries? (the big eve lottery being yet another victim)
Rip sandbox |
Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
98
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Posted - 2016.10.12 17:59:27 -
[123] - Quote
Hmm, tradehub network might not be happening now. Actually I have nothing of value to add and just want to have a post in this thread. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5294
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:01:08 -
[124] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Andre Vauban wrote:Can you elaborate on "You may establish more than one (1) Account for each copy of the Software licensed. You are however not allowed to play EVE by using more than one account at the same time, unless you pay a subscription fee for the Software"?
How does this relate to alpha and omega's? It is pretty clear that CCP will write some code to prevent another Eve client from being launched whenver an alpha account is running. How does this relate to VMs and containers?
If I run the second Eve account in a container or VM to circumvent the restriction, is that a EULA violation?
If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC, is that a EULA violation?
If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC with a different public IP than the first account, is that a EULA violation?
If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a pet, is that a EULA violation?
If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a sleeping baby, is that a EULA violation?
If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a spouse who really isn't playing EVE, is that a EULA violation?
I don't mean to be annoying, but people are going to push this ability to multibox alpha's as far as they can just like they did with multi-input.
These are really good questions. I have the same questions regarding VM and another physical machine (PC).
Good idea...posting your ideas about violating the EULA. I'm sure nothing bad will come of this.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Erika Mizune
The Soul Society The Methodical Alliance
2358
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:02:05 -
[125] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:baltec1 wrote: From what I can tell, IWI and casino were running a RMT operation while EVEbet were legit. So EVEbet gets time to get its **** in order before shutting down while the other two got nuked.
Coupled with this is the whole steam getting sued for in game gambling so CCP are pulling the plug before something stupid happens and some American lawyer goes after them.
Casino wasn't involved in RMT. They were banned for breaking a different rule. From the dev blog: Quote:The third party service EVE Casino has been shut down in game, and all ISK and assets have been confiscated after multiple and sustained breaches of our Developer License Agreement. Permanent account suspensions have been issued against those involved. But they were still banned for doing something that was against the rules at the time they did it.
Even if so, the isk they took from the bankers on Eve Casino was their own isk that they earned and had never touched the casino 'floor' because it wasn't even open yet - why did they take their isk?
Also it was pretty vague on the 'developer tos' violation.
DJ Yumene of Eve Radio | Blog | Sounds of New Eden | Eve Radio | My BPO Quest | Erika For CSM XI
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5294
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 18:06:27 -
[126] - Quote
Robin Wren wrote:It's a shame that eve bet which just did a fantastic job with the at streaming is also going to be nuked from orbit. If this is a knee jerk reaction to the mess happening over cs:go then it makes some sense, if this is simply about rmt then surely you are actually helping the people that want to destroy our game win.... Just my point of view on things.
We really need a black and white clarification on what is covered by games of chance.
Skill games? (they all involve an element of chance it seems) Third party services? (there is a chance 3rd party could walk, although it's low) Hosting services? Lotteries? (the big eve lottery being yet another victim)
Rip sandbox
Look, betting on things like "games of skill" is still gambling. The bookies/bookmakers typically set up algorithms to calculate the odds based on people's betting patterns. There is considerable literature on this and they all rely on probability theory...just as if you discussing roulette or craps. The only significant difference is that the probabilities over say a sports game are subjective probabilities.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Kaoraku Shayiskhun
The 1st Regiment Brotherhood of Spacers
6
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:07:13 -
[127] - Quote
Toobo wrote:Chribba's onto something here. There are many 'services' people pay for with ISK, such as TS hosting and websites, etc. What's up with all those?
You really can't read? Paying ISK for a service (especially for an ingame service) is not a gambling. Paying ISK for hosting a website not a gambling either.
I wonder why anybody surprised. Iron was against the rules for long time, couse CCP already said these things only allowed if everybody have the same chance for winning ingame things. Raffles for those only, who payed for him is brake this rule. CCP should step this much earlier. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5294
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 18:07:15 -
[128] - Quote
Erika Mizune wrote:Hesod Adee wrote:baltec1 wrote: From what I can tell, IWI and casino were running a RMT operation while EVEbet were legit. So EVEbet gets time to get its **** in order before shutting down while the other two got nuked.
Coupled with this is the whole steam getting sued for in game gambling so CCP are pulling the plug before something stupid happens and some American lawyer goes after them.
Casino wasn't involved in RMT. They were banned for breaking a different rule. From the dev blog: Quote:The third party service EVE Casino has been shut down in game, and all ISK and assets have been confiscated after multiple and sustained breaches of our Developer License Agreement. Permanent account suspensions have been issued against those involved. But they were still banned for doing something that was against the rules at the time they did it. Even if so, the isk they took from the bankers on Eve Casino was their own isk that they earned and had never touched the casino 'floor' because it wasn't even open yet - why did they take their isk? Also it was pretty vague on the 'developer tos' violation.
Because CCP can and you agreed to that when you agreed to the EULA.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Urziel99
Unified Research and Industrial
161
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:08:47 -
[129] - Quote
Erika Mizune wrote:Hesod Adee wrote:baltec1 wrote: From what I can tell, IWI and casino were running a RMT operation while EVEbet were legit. So EVEbet gets time to get its **** in order before shutting down while the other two got nuked.
Coupled with this is the whole steam getting sued for in game gambling so CCP are pulling the plug before something stupid happens and some American lawyer goes after them.
Casino wasn't involved in RMT. They were banned for breaking a different rule. From the dev blog: Quote:The third party service EVE Casino has been shut down in game, and all ISK and assets have been confiscated after multiple and sustained breaches of our Developer License Agreement. Permanent account suspensions have been issued against those involved. But they were still banned for doing something that was against the rules at the time they did it. Even if so, the isk they took from the bankers on Eve Casino was their own isk that they earned and had never touched the casino 'floor' because it wasn't even open yet - why did they take their isk? Also it was pretty vague on the 'developer tos' violation.
Word on the street is a violation of the TOS for use of the SSO and API for the gambling site. Can't verify though as I'm not a developer. |
Kaoraku Shayiskhun
The 1st Regiment Brotherhood of Spacers
6
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:08:53 -
[130] - Quote
Erika Mizune wrote:[quote=Hesod Adee][quote=baltec1] Even if so, the isk they took from the bankers on Eve Casino was their own isk that they earned and had never touched the casino 'floor' because it wasn't even open yet - why did they take their isk?
Also it was pretty vague on the 'developer tos' violation.
I think they wanted to punish them... |
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Robin Wren
Attack Kittens
3
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:09:57 -
[131] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Robin Wren wrote:It's a shame that eve bet which just did a fantastic job with the at streaming is also going to be nuked from orbit. If this is a knee jerk reaction to the mess happening over cs:go then it makes some sense, if this is simply about rmt then surely you are actually helping the people that want to destroy our game win.... Just my point of view on things.
We really need a black and white clarification on what is covered by games of chance.
Skill games? (they all involve an element of chance it seems) Third party services? (there is a chance 3rd party could walk, although it's low) Hosting services? Lotteries? (the big eve lottery being yet another victim)
Rip sandbox Look, betting on things like "games of skill" is still gambling. The bookies/bookmakers typically set up algorithms to calculate the odds based on people's betting patterns. There is considerable literature on this and they all rely on probability theory...just as if you discussing roulette or craps. The only significant difference is that the probabilities over say a sports game are subjective probabilities.
I work in the gambling industry and whilst I'm not currently a pml holder I know enough to work within the ukgc regs. I understand gambling, what I'm questioning is the wording of the eula.
Cheers though |
Elliott Spitzer
Sphincter Inc. Shadow of xXDEATHXx
3
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:10:32 -
[132] - Quote
Robin Wren wrote:Brusanan wrote:Robin Wren wrote:Games of chance are not games of skill (poker), but as part of poker involves elements of chance where is the line ? I'm sure Eve Online Hold'Em is covered by this ban on gambling as well. I't doesn't say gambling games, it says games of chance.
Here's what it says:
"In short, this addition to the EVE Online EULA means that as of the launch of EVE Online: Ascension, players will be prohibited from using in game assets and currency, as well as the EVE IP, to take part in or promote gambling services or other games of chance that are operated by third parties."
To me that says any third party gambling site will be banned, including Eve Online Hold 'em. |
Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
267
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:12:21 -
[133] - Quote
If Iron is flagged as RMT (I have no reason to accuse him as such, but since they are doing blanket punishment on all involved, just for the virtue of involvement, not actual evidence of involvement) - then will CCP remove his SP too? Which was bought using ISK he made from IWI, which is now all of sudden judged to be involved with RMT, including down to Bankers who just got hired a few weeks ago?
WTF is going on seriously.
TOOBO RAGE.
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Robin Wren
Attack Kittens
3
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:12:28 -
[134] - Quote
Elliott Spitzer wrote:Robin Wren wrote:Brusanan wrote:Robin Wren wrote:Games of chance are not games of skill (poker), but as part of poker involves elements of chance where is the line ? I'm sure Eve Online Hold'Em is covered by this ban on gambling as well. I't doesn't say gambling games, it says games of chance. Here's what it says: "In short, this addition to the EVE Online EULA means that as of the launch of EVE Online: Ascension, players will be prohibited from using in game assets and currency, as well as the EVE IP, to take part in or promote gambling services or other games of chance that are operated by third parties." To me that says any third party gambling site will be banned, including Eve Online Hold 'em.
That's a fair cop
Shame |
Elliott Spitzer
Sphincter Inc. Shadow of xXDEATHXx
3
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:13:51 -
[135] - Quote
Toobo wrote:If Iron is flagged as RMT (I have no reason to accuse him as such, but since they are doing blanket punishment on all involved, just for the virtue of involvement, not actual evidence of involvement) - then will CCP remove his SP too? Which was bought using ISK he made from IWI, which is now all of sudden judged to be involved with RMT, including down to Bankers who just got hired a few weeks ago?
WTF is going on seriously.
What? They are doing this because there is a massive amount of evidence involved.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5294
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 18:15:05 -
[136] - Quote
Robin Wren wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Robin Wren wrote:It's a shame that eve bet which just did a fantastic job with the at streaming is also going to be nuked from orbit. If this is a knee jerk reaction to the mess happening over cs:go then it makes some sense, if this is simply about rmt then surely you are actually helping the people that want to destroy our game win.... Just my point of view on things.
We really need a black and white clarification on what is covered by games of chance.
Skill games? (they all involve an element of chance it seems) Third party services? (there is a chance 3rd party could walk, although it's low) Hosting services? Lotteries? (the big eve lottery being yet another victim)
Rip sandbox Look, betting on things like "games of skill" is still gambling. The bookies/bookmakers typically set up algorithms to calculate the odds based on people's betting patterns. There is considerable literature on this and they all rely on probability theory...just as if you discussing roulette or craps. The only significant difference is that the probabilities over say a sports game are subjective probabilities. I work in the gambling industry and whilst I'm not currently a pml holder I know enough to work within the ukgc regs. I understand gambling, what I'm questioning is the wording of the eula. Cheers though
Then you already know the answer. Further, CCP has indicated that betting on the AT must be wound down prior to Nov. 8th as well. In other words, they are going to prohibit that after Nov. 8.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
185
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:15:10 -
[137] - Quote
Have i read the new EULA correctly?
I can set up and run a 'eve online gambling site' just like the ones that are running or where running before closed for RMT, providing that it is a scam and the only 'winner 'is me?
u+É-¦ssn+¦ p+ɦ¥+¦ -ç,u+É+ö -¦ -çnq -Ä+¦+¦os +»,-¦
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5295
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 18:16:57 -
[138] - Quote
Toobo wrote:If Iron is flagged as RMT (I have no reason to accuse him as such, but since they are doing blanket punishment on all involved, just for the virtue of involvement, not actual evidence of involvement) - then will CCP remove his SP too? Which was bought using ISK he made from IWI, which is now all of sudden judged to be involved with RMT, including down to Bankers who just got hired a few weeks ago?
WTF is going on seriously.
Doesn't matter what they do, my understanding that 1ronbank will have his accounts banned--i.e. that character is now essentially irrelevant barring a reversal of this ban.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5295
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 18:18:50 -
[139] - Quote
Prt Scr wrote:Have i read the new EULA correctly?
I can set up and run a 'eve online gambling site' just like the ones that are running or where running before closed for RMT, providing that it is a scam and the only 'winner 'is me?
Go for it....then tell us how it works out...oh...wait...
Maybe you should consider playing the game without cheating?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Kaoraku Shayiskhun
The 1st Regiment Brotherhood of Spacers
6
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:19:16 -
[140] - Quote
Toobo wrote:If Iron is flagged as RMT (I have no reason to accuse him as such, but since they are doing blanket punishment on all involved, just for the virtue of involvement, not actual evidence of involvement) - then will CCP remove his SP too? Which was bought using ISK he made from IWI, which is now all of sudden judged to be involved with RMT, including down to Bankers who just got hired a few weeks ago?
WTF is going on seriously.
Whats going on? You cry couse your favourite toy got called back, couse people can choke from it.
What the hell would you btw call a raffle, when you can play only, if you pay, and your chances multiply if you pay more?
CCP warned everybody about RMT in a devblog long time ago. https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/overlays-isk-buyer-amnesty-and-account-security/ Amnesty period is over. |
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5295
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:21:02 -
[141] - Quote
Kaoraku Shayiskhun wrote:Toobo wrote:If Iron is flagged as RMT (I have no reason to accuse him as such, but since they are doing blanket punishment on all involved, just for the virtue of involvement, not actual evidence of involvement) - then will CCP remove his SP too? Which was bought using ISK he made from IWI, which is now all of sudden judged to be involved with RMT, including down to Bankers who just got hired a few weeks ago?
WTF is going on seriously. Whats going on? You cry couse your favourite toy got called back, couse people can choke from it. What the hell would you btw call a raffle, when you can play only, if you pay, and your chances multiply if you pay more? CCP warned everybody about RMT in a devblog long time ago. https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/overlays-isk-buyer-amnesty-and-account-security/ Amnesty period is over.
A raffle is gambling.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1213
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:21:07 -
[142] - Quote
Prt Scr wrote:Have i read the new EULA correctly?
I can set up and run a 'eve online gambling site' just like the ones that are running or where running before closed for RMT, providing that it is a scam and the only 'winner 'is me?
No. This has already been covered in the EULA. A while back There were common scams with people using API to "show wallet transactions" to prove they were legit isk doublers. CCP banned using external sites for scamming at that point as they were getting too many service tickets blaming the API. Your suggestion would fall into the same category. |
Jew Jew Binks
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:23:13 -
[143] - Quote
Kaoraku Shayiskhun wrote:Toobo wrote:Chribba's onto something here. There are many 'services' people pay for with ISK, such as TS hosting and websites, etc. What's up with all those? You really can't read? Paying ISK for a service (especially for an ingame service) is not a gambling. Paying ISK for hosting a website not a gambling either. I wonder why anybody surprised. Iron was against the rules for long time, couse CCP already said these things only allowed if everybody have the same chance for winning ingame things. Raffles for those only, who payed for him is brake this rule. CCP should step this much earlier.
it's RMT |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56839
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 18:25:35 -
[144] - Quote
Well, I never got involved with the various 3rd party gambling services and I didn't care if they operated using in-game assets / ISK.
However this latest change to the EULA / TOS seems like a knee-jerk reaction than a fully thought out decision based on factual information. Even if it is, the main thing I see happening here is CCP becoming more fascist.
CCP's Eve Online = The New Fatherland.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Kaoraku Shayiskhun
The 1st Regiment Brotherhood of Spacers
6
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:25:38 -
[145] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:A raffle is gambling.
Sssssh dude, that was irony, I wanted to hear the answer from her
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5296
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:29:52 -
[146] - Quote
Kaoraku Shayiskhun wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:A raffle is gambling. Sssssh dude, that was irony, I wanted to hear the answer from her
Dammit...sorry.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Dex Cordell
EVE University Ivy League
35
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:33:54 -
[147] - Quote
Urziel99 wrote:Of course then you have to prove that there is a minor competing in the tournament. Good luck with that.
sure, and where is the proof that any minors that need protecting are playing on EveBet or similar sites? same thing :) |
Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
173
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:34:40 -
[148] - Quote
Alan Mathison wrote:This prevents the horde of Alpha gankers we're all worried about.
Hi Alan, I'm sure you intended to make it clear that you have no idea who's worried about being ganked by an Alpha Clone player, let alone whether it encompasses the entire player base. So I helped you (italics mine).
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Oraac Ensor
708
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 18:35:42 -
[149] - Quote
Obil Que wrote: Right now: CCP has the right to terminate your account immediately if you don't pay After: CCP will notify you 90 days before terminating you if you don't pay Reality: CCP hasn't ever used this clause
Why people are up in arms about getting 90 days notice to something CCP currently has the right to do immediately is beyond me.
The new EULA wording says nothing about giving notice: Quote:CCP may terminate the EULA, close all your Accounts, and cancel all rights granted to you under the EULA if: (i) your account has been inactive for a number of 90 days; It simply reserves CCP's right to close your accounts if any of them is inactive for 90 days.
What bothers me is the use of the word "all" that I've highlighted. That means that if you have several accounts and any one of them becomes inactive CCP may close ALL of them - even those that are fully subbed.
That may not be the intention, but it's what that wording means. |
Geronimo McVain
EVE University Ivy League
218
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 18:38:02 -
[150] - Quote
IMHO CCPs PR crew should take a look at the donations some Casinos made and maybe replace it. It would be a shame if things like CZ went down the drain. If you want news sides and other things player sponsored then there must be enough (game)money involved. You don't have to like IWI and Co but they had some positive effects for Eve.
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