Did you just make use of 3rd party gambling sites against the EULA ?

OMG first !

The third party service IWANTISK has been shut down in game, and all ISK and assets have been confiscated after extensive and exhaustive investigation has brought forward compelling evidence of large-scale Real Money Trading. Permanent account suspensions have been issued against those involved.

All of them?

Would this affect lotteries too?

You may not use, transfer or assign any game assets for games of chance operated by third parties.

You may not use, transfer or assign any in game assets for games of chance operated by third parties.

CCP may terminate the EULA, close all your Accounts, and cancel all rights granted to you under the EULA if: (i) ... your account has been inactive for a number of 90 days

I don't get why such a drastic change around gambling is required here... Just a bit of fun?!

As per the other poster, I'd like more clarification on this bit too:
"CCP may terminate the EULA, close all your Accounts, and cancel all rights granted to you under the EULA if: (i) ... your account has been inactive for a number of 90 days"

I'm hoping you don't really have intention to bin inactive accounts through this...

CCP may terminate the EULA, close all your Accounts, and cancel all rights granted to you under the EULA if: (i) you fail to pay the fees when due; your account has been inactive for a number of 90 days; (

Good afternoon capsuleers!

Today we're here to announce some changes to the EVE Online EULA that are coming with the launch of EVE Online: Ascension.

You can read all about them in this Dev Blog, which includes a handy red-lined version of the new EULA that will come into effect on Tuesday, November 8th, 2016.

CCP may terminate the EULA, close all your Accounts, and cancel all rights granted to you under the EULA if: (i) your account has been inactive for a number of 90 days;

I think this is more just to keep their asses clear if they have to purge an account even if it's inactive for some reason. Or to keep on top of alpha clones that may never be used again because it's easier to just create a new one than try to remember the details of the old.

Can we have more details about "your account has been inactive for a number of 90 days;" ?

I keep on playing then taking hiatus for years, but eventually I always come back. So what the heck ?!

I'm positively surprised and pleased to see, that CCP is able to execute some bold changes for the better of the game.

Though I agree with the sentiment above, that purely ingame raffles or bets should be allowed.

Did you just make use of 3rd party gambling sites against the EULA ?

OMG first !

Though I agree with the sentiment above, that purely ingame raffles or bets should be allowed.

so if I read this correctly, me playing Hold'em with and for ISK is going to be shut down as well? I'm somehow failing to catch the drift here. Why would RMT require this kind of harsh measures against everyone in general, instead of applying the rules already in place to those caught breaking them, as it was till now? That's just gross...

I assume the 'we may purge accounts after 90 days of inactivity' clause is unlikely to ever be enacted, right?

This has been clarified in the OP

edit: page2snypa

This has been clarified in the OP

I think the major bit of this is that it's cost CCP a ton of money and manhours to investigate RMT in the cases named, and others. Time and again isk gambling sites seem to slip into RMT along the way - and CCP have had to investigate. Not to mention accusations true or false on these sites having to be investigated. So why not save time and just cut them out entirely.

Finally CCP puts the game back into the hands of players and CCP where it belongs.
Please do not ruin it and change your decision when you sit down with the CSM
They are only looking out for their masters not the normal playerbase.

Ascension, players will be prohibited from using in game assets and currency, as well as the EVE IP, to take part in or promote gambling services or other games of chance that are operated by third parties.

So do the changes made to the "Your Account" section no longer allow multiboxing if you are paying for them with PLEX?

"You may establish more than one (1) Account for each copy of the Software licensed. You are however not allowed to play EVE by using more than one account, at the same time, unless you pay a subscription fee for each of the accounts you intend to use for that purpose."

THIS needs clarification. Legally speaking, this means no more 10+ accounts. If that is the case me and my alts are done.

Can you elaborate on
"You may establish more than one (1) Account for each copy of the Software licensed. You are however not allowed to play EVE by using more than one account at the same time, unless you pay a subscription fee for the Software"?

How does this relate to alpha and omega's? It is pretty clear that CCP will write some code to prevent another Eve client from being launched whenver an alpha account is running. How does this relate to VMs and containers?

If I run the second Eve account in a container or VM to circumvent the restriction, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC with a different public IP than the first account, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a pet, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a sleeping baby, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a spouse who really isn't playing EVE, is that a EULA violation?


I don't mean to be annoying, but people are going to push this ability to multibox alpha's as far as they can just like they did with multi-input.

This needs no clarification. It's simple. You may have 10+ Omega accounts online at the same time, but only ONE Alpha account. This prevents the horde of Alpha gankers we're all worried about.

"CCP may terminate the EULA, close all your Accounts, and cancel all rights granted to you under the EULA if: (i) ... your account has been inactive for a number of 90 days"

this should only apply to accounts that had under 90 days of subscription. it would be awufull to delete characters with 15M SP or more.

It does need clarification. It specifically states you must pay for each account over the number one. That is the legal definition of what was posted.

Legally, in the United States, where I am based, that means that I must "pay a subscription fee" for each account that I wish to play on if I want to use them "at the same time". There is a very large difference in a "subscription fee" and using an in game item to keep an account in it's "Omega" state.

This needs clarification.

How will these new EULA changes affect Twitch streamers who occasionally raffle prizes off to their stream viewers?

I presume the whole hassle about gambling being officially prohibited from now on (RMT and protecting minors, meh, as if the laws established to do that and to ensure that we raise our children properly did a great job ensuring it in the first place, but that's just offhand off topic and for a different discussion entirely) does not affect free giveaways of items as rewards for a given action, e.g. the rewards for people supporting streamers are not exactly a gamble or "game of chance". Same goes for ingame lotteries for items run by corporations, you're paying ISK for tickets to win ships, not actual real world cash. If you use PLEX to sell for ISK and participate, that's allowed, the RMT goes to CCP itself...:)

Not this again. There was a long thread about this in general discussion. PLEX'd accounts are 'subscribed' accounts.
For purposes of the EULA, there is no difference between paying money for a sub and using PLEX for a sub.

It's a settled issue and pretty straight forward.

Spreading a lot of misinformation here. In-game lotteries are no different that third party casinos. Lottery = game of chance. None of this was ever about players paying real money to play in those casinos. It's about the casino's selling the ISK people wager for real money.

Either way, ALL games of chance are banned. Until CCP says otherwise, that includes lotteries no matter how small.

This has been clarified in the OP

Sad changes if im honest.
This game needs this sort of small but fun things, as the game itself is rather boring 90% of the time....

The OP clarification indicates this is a shortening of the window from 6 months to 3 months. The text being replaced doesn't say anything about any such 6 month window.

How will these new EULA changes affect Twitch streamers who occasionally raffle prizes off to their stream viewers?

Games of chance are not games of skill (poker), but as part of poker involves elements of chance where is the line ?

I'm sure Eve Online Hold'Em is covered by this ban on gambling as well.

I'm sure Eve Online Hold'Em is covered by this ban on gambling as well.

the alliance tournament is a gamble as well, if you get two teams of equal firepower and skill to play against each other, the outcome of that match is pure chance

Yeah, but it's run by the dev and not a third party. Straw man fail.

snip

Then suddenly, you change EULA. OK, CCP as a company can do that, any time, to change EULA and TOS, with or without notice. I can even accept that, I have no sense of entitlement on this at all.

But to TAKE AWAY something that has all been done within EULA, by applying the suddenly changed EULA to the previous periods and making any ISK gains from those void? You can say, ok from today, no more, fair enough. But to say, ok, no more from today, and we will take what you earned before too, because we changed the rules today and want to apply it to the time when this rule didn't exist.

But why should ALL players, and non offending staffs of the site should lose the ISK?

CCP cannot guarantee that our ISK trusted to a third party

the protecting minors crap doesn't care about which party it is, actually :)

TL:DR

I gave billions of my money to a guy and he got banned
*tears*
Why CCP, why?

CCP didn't change the EULA without notice. This dev blog was them giving notice that they will be changing it on Nov 8.

CCP didn't ban IWI over the changed EULA. They banned them for RMT, something which has always been against the rules.

Other gambling sites remain allowed until the changed EULA comes into force. They have the option for a graceful shutdown. They also have the option of keeping all the money they hold because today is when they decided to turn their legit gambling site into a scam.


Actually, that raises a question: Are gambling scams allowed under the new EULA ?
Operations which pretend to be a game of chance, but are really keeping all the ISK that they get their hand on. Nobody wins anything, because they aren't games of chance.

I'm sure Eve Online Hold'Em is covered by this ban on gambling as well.

CCP, I will talk about IWI specifically, that you shut down and disbanded today with immediate effect.

First off, no I don't need my ISK back from my IWI account. After I claimed all the winnings I have about 100b in IWI account and 160m tokens which is roughly 14 billions worth, so probably maximum 120b ISK loss from not being able to withdraw from IWI account any more.

CCP you may not care, but those who played in IWI in recent months will know. Toobo doesn't rage on ISK loss. Toobo doesn't shed a single drop of tear at 120b loss. 120b ISK loss doesn't hurt my in-game financial stability or activities - I am perfectly fine and able to write it off as a loss. And I cashed out over a trillion in September from multiple jackpots and big wins, so no, my RAGE about closing of IWI is not about ISK, in any way, whatsoever.

It's about the fact that CCP has made decision to shut down a players created/run project, and punishing everyone involved in it in a blanket bombing, with no warning or explanations.

I get that CCP must have evidence of some involved RMT-ing, but I have never RMT'ed in my whole eve career, CCP can look through any records of mine and YOU will KNOW that I never RMTed. But yet, I lost my ISK from your shutdown of IWI.

There must be many others. SOME bankers/players who made lots of ISK may have RMTed. Ban them. I don't like RMT tards anyway. Ban them for good. I'm happy with that.

But why should ALL players, and non offending staffs of the site should lose the ISK?

CCP cannot guarantee that our ISK trusted to a third party, especially out of game site, will be safe and will be returned. I understand that too and accept that. But people got screwed not because IWI staff or anyone 'scammed' us or 'stole' our ISK, but because CCP has destroyed all means for them to pay back the players. It is NOT IWI that caused the loss of ISK and no return/reimbursement to players, it is CCP decision to implement a blanket ban and confiscation of all assets and ISK that have caused the loss for the players.

This is unacceptable, because whether it's 1 ISK or 10b ISK or 10t ISK, players have taken loss, not through any failure in game play choices in-game, not because they got 'scammed' or got tricked by a better player, but because DEV made the decision to forcefully disband the IWI corp and take all ISK from bankers wallets - it is the DEV action that caused this loss to the players.

I don't care whether this is fair or not. I don' believe in fair world, neither IRL or in-game. So I'm not raging because CCP has done anything 'unfair'. I'm not happy because the Dev took an action which only Dev/GM can take, with no chance of player response, and no chance of non-RMT involved bankers to pay back the other players. This is not question of 'fair' or not, it's about CCP implementing an action with no warning, to which all players are powerless to and can only suffer from.

CCP could have banned the RMT-ers, bankers or players or whoever, gambling or not. But why do this to everyone?

Especially considering that EVE-Bet has time to 'wind down' and pay out/settle with players in civilised manner?

Has CCP discussed with player-base/CSM about what we think about third party asset/isk transfers and such? Has there been any announcement that CCP is 'reviewing' the situation? Has there been any notice to the sites like IWI that they should stop taking deposits and start paying out the players, in good will, in a civilised manner?

It's not about the ISK, it's not about RMT, it's about CCP carpet bombing quite significant number of players regardless of what they have done, while many people involved (be it a staff or players) have possibly never broken any EULA while that was in effect.

So look, what CCP has done is this.

We, as players, did things which were never banned in EULA, had fun, built community, made some ISK (or lost ISK, for most people), got inspired, and the operation funded the most advertised EVE events in recent years, and all that.

Then suddenly, you change EULA. OK, CCP as a company can do that, any time, to change EULA and TOS, with or without notice. I can even accept that, I have no sense of entitlement on this at all.

But to TAKE AWAY something that has all been done within EULA, by applying the suddenly changed EULA to the previous periods and making any ISK gains from those void? You can say, ok from today, no more, fair enough. But to say, ok, no more from today, and we will take what you earned before too, because we changed the rules today and want to apply it to the time when this rule didn't exist.

Seriously CCP. You are getting something really rare here. I've won trillions and lost trillions. My life time winning is over 117 TRILLIONS. Toobo doesn't shed a drop of tear or rage at ISK loss, especially considering I only lost 120b isk maximum on this as I have habit of cashing out regularly.

But what you've done to IWI, that's just stupid. And you get a single drop of Toobo tear but with no salt in it, but lots of RAGE from Toobo who nobody has ever seen rage in EVE.

You destroyed ISK. Crap but that can happen.

You destroyed community. Sad, but it can be built again through other means.

You destroyed player experience and the trust in the system of game management. That is beyond sad.

That's all. You are beyond sad.


Toobo.

TL:DR

I gave billions of my money to a guy and he got banned
*tears*
Why CCP, why?

Did you read his post?

He's talking about the players and how Eve Bet got time to properly honor last minute withdraws until the change goes in full effect but honest players on IWI didn't get the same.

CCP also closed and seized Eve Casino - Which haven't even been open yet! - they haven't accepted ANY ISK yet since it was still in testing, but yet all the bankers there have had their isk seized as well?

There are things that don't make sense here - I understand it's a risk to hand over your isk to these sites in the first place to feed your addiction, but they did give Eve Bet the benefit of the doubt.

Beyond that, it's a form of income that is completely immune to in-game interdiction of any kind. They have no stations to destroy, no logistics to disrupt, no ratters to gank. They were more untouchable by capsuleers than teh HK Fortizar.

Did you read his post?

He's talking about the players and how Eve Bet got time to properly honor last minute withdraws until the change goes in full effect but honest players on IWI didn't get the same.

CCP also closed and seized Eve Casino - Which haven't even been open yet! - they haven't accepted ANY ISK yet since it was still in testing, but yet all the bankers there have had their isk seized as well?

There are things that don't make sense here - I understand it's a risk to hand over your isk to these sites in the first place to feed your addiction, but they did give Eve Bet the benefit of the doubt.

Tell us where the bad bankers touched you. Ironic to see a goon posting about untouchable income, of all people. Technetium anyone?

so if I read this correctly, me playing Hold'em with and for ISK is going to be shut down as well? I'm somehow failing to catch the drift here. Why would RMT require this kind of harsh measures against everyone in general, instead of applying the rules already in place to those caught breaking them, as it was till now? That's just gross...

whats up with the talking about yourself in 3rd person?

Did you read his post?

He's talking about the players and how Eve Bet got time to properly honor last minute withdraws until the change goes in full effect but honest players on IWI didn't get the same.

CCP also closed and seized Eve Casino - Which haven't even been open yet! - they haven't accepted ANY ISK yet since it was still in testing, but yet all the bankers there have had their isk seized as well?

There are things that don't make sense here - I understand it's a risk to hand over your isk to these sites in the first place to feed your addiction, but they did give Eve Bet the benefit of the doubt.

Im rather curious how much ISK assets have been removed from the game by this.

Would CCP be willing to shed a little light on what kind of figure we would be looking at?

You mean the towers that could be reinforced to stop the moon mining? Apples meet oranges.

I't doesn't say gambling games, it says games of chance.

gamble
(-êg+ªm b+Öl)

v. -bled, -bling,
n. v.i.
1. to play at a game of chance for money or other stakes.
2. to stake or risk something of value, as money, on the outcome of something involving chance.

It's about whether such blanket punishment is justifiable.

I'm interpreting this as running external sites that deals with ISK/items etc is prohibited.

Is me securing supercap trades against the rules?

Is running a lottery for a titan, using the "Sell Orders" forum against the rules?

Is running an auction for a titan, using the "Sell Orders" forum against the rules?

/c

Updates & Clarifications:

The 90 day clause:

Our policy on inactive accounts has not changed, we have simply shortened the notice period from six months to three months due to a potentially higher volume of account creation.

This does not go far enough, and the EULA could be simplified greatly.

In-game items should not be exchangeable for ANY out of games goods or services, period.

so this doesn't mean our accoutns WILL be deleted after 90 days of not logging it. it just means that we'll be warned 90 days IF the supply of accounts becomes to many.

correct?


also with eve-bet being...outlawed........will we have some form of ingame betting (as its fun to bet on teams for the alliance tournament.)

Right now: CCP has the right to terminate your account immediately if you don't pay
After: CCP will notify you 90 days before terminating you if you don't pay
Reality: CCP hasn't ever used this clause

Why people are up in arms about getting 90 days notice to something CCP currently has the right to do immediately is beyond me.

Can you elaborate on
"You may establish more than one (1) Account for each copy of the Software licensed. You are however not allowed to play EVE by using more than one account at the same time, unless you pay a subscription fee for the Software"?

How does this relate to alpha and omega's? It is pretty clear that CCP will write some code to prevent another Eve client from being launched whenver an alpha account is running. How does this relate to VMs and containers?

If I run the second Eve account in a container or VM to circumvent the restriction, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC with a different public IP than the first account, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a pet, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a sleeping baby, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a spouse who really isn't playing EVE, is that a EULA violation?


I don't mean to be annoying, but people are going to push this ability to multibox alpha's as far as they can just like they did with multi-input.

I'm interpreting this as running external sites that deals with ISK/items etc is prohibited.

Is me securing supercap trades against the rules?

Is running a lottery for a titan, using the "Sell Orders" forum against the rules?

Is running an auction for a titan, using the "Sell Orders" forum against the rules?

/c

I'm interpreting this as running external sites that deals with ISK/items etc is prohibited.

Is me securing supercap trades against the rules?

Is running a lottery for a titan, using the "Sell Orders" forum against the rules?

Is running an auction for a titan, using the "Sell Orders" forum against the rules?

/c

Chribba's onto something here. There are many 'services' people pay for with ISK, such as TS hosting and websites, etc. What's up with all those?

Can you elaborate on
"You may establish more than one (1) Account for each copy of the Software licensed. You are however not allowed to play EVE by using more than one account at the same time, unless you pay a subscription fee for the Software"?

How does this relate to alpha and omega's? It is pretty clear that CCP will write some code to prevent another Eve client from being launched whenver an alpha account is running. How does this relate to VMs and containers?

If I run the second Eve account in a container or VM to circumvent the restriction, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC with a different public IP than the first account, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a pet, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a sleeping baby, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a spouse who really isn't playing EVE, is that a EULA violation?


I don't mean to be annoying, but people are going to push this ability to multibox alpha's as far as they can just like they did with multi-input.

Thank you. What I wanted to say in more succinct manner.

What on earth are you doing?? I get that there are problems, but this change will kill all of the good things that are funded by those sites, like EVE NT.

Also, how completely self-serving is it that you waited to announce this until the week after they produced an AT show twice as good as the one produced by CCP? Really, did you delay the announcement just to get that last bit of betting funded community effort out before you killed them?

Right now: CCP has the right to terminate your account immediately if you don't pay
After: CCP will notify you 90 days before terminating you if you don't pay
Reality: CCP hasn't ever used this clause

Why people are up in arms about getting 90 days notice to something CCP currently has the right to do immediately is beyond me.

From what I can tell, IWI and casino were running a RMT operation while EVEbet were legit. So EVEbet gets time to get its **** in order before shutting down while the other two got nuked.

Coupled with this is the whole steam getting sued for in game gambling so CCP are pulling the plug before something stupid happens and some American lawyer goes after them.

From what I can tell, IWI and casino were running a RMT operation while EVEbet were legit. So EVEbet gets time to get its **** in order before shutting down while the other two got nuked.

Coupled with this is the whole steam getting sued for in game gambling so CCP are pulling the plug before something stupid happens and some American lawyer goes after them.

The third party service EVE Casino has been shut down in game, and all ISK and assets have been confiscated after multiple and sustained breaches of our Developer License Agreement. Permanent account suspensions have been issued against those involved.

How will these new EULA changes affect Twitch streamers who occasionally raffle prizes off to their stream viewers?

These are really good questions.
I have the same questions regarding VM and another physical machine (PC).

Casino wasn't involved in RMT. They were banned for breaking a different rule. From the dev blog:



But they were still banned for doing something that was against the rules at the time they did it.

It's a shame that eve bet which just did a fantastic job with the at streaming is also going to be nuked from orbit. If this is a knee jerk reaction to the mess happening over cs:go then it makes some sense, if this is simply about rmt then surely you are actually helping the people that want to destroy our game win.... Just my point of view on things.

We really need a black and white clarification on what is covered by games of chance.

Skill games? (they all involve an element of chance it seems)
Third party services? (there is a chance 3rd party could walk, although it's low)
Hosting services?
Lotteries? (the big eve lottery being yet another victim)

Rip sandbox

Chribba's onto something here. There are many 'services' people pay for with ISK, such as TS hosting and websites, etc. What's up with all those?

Even if so, the isk they took from the bankers on Eve Casino was their own isk that they earned and had never touched the casino 'floor' because it wasn't even open yet - why did they take their isk?

Also it was pretty vague on the 'developer tos' violation.

Even if so, the isk they took from the bankers on Eve Casino was their own isk that they earned and had never touched the casino 'floor' because it wasn't even open yet - why did they take their isk?

Also it was pretty vague on the 'developer tos' violation.

[quote=Hesod Adee][quote=baltec1]
Even if so, the isk they took from the bankers on Eve Casino was their own isk that they earned and had never touched the casino 'floor' because it wasn't even open yet - why did they take their isk?

Also it was pretty vague on the 'developer tos' violation.

Look, betting on things like "games of skill" is still gambling. The bookies/bookmakers typically set up algorithms to calculate the odds based on people's betting patterns. There is considerable literature on this and they all rely on probability theory...just as if you discussing roulette or craps. The only significant difference is that the probabilities over say a sports game are subjective probabilities.

I't doesn't say gambling games, it says games of chance.

Here's what it says:

"In short, this addition to the EVE Online EULA means that as of the launch of EVE Online: Ascension, players will be prohibited from using in game assets and currency, as well as the EVE IP, to take part in or promote gambling services or other games of chance that are operated by third parties."

To me that says any third party gambling site will be banned, including Eve Online Hold 'em.

If Iron is flagged as RMT (I have no reason to accuse him as such, but since they are doing blanket punishment on all involved, just for the virtue of involvement, not actual evidence of involvement) - then will CCP remove his SP too? Which was bought using ISK he made from IWI, which is now all of sudden judged to be involved with RMT, including down to Bankers who just got hired a few weeks ago?

WTF is going on seriously.

I work in the gambling industry and whilst I'm not currently a pml holder I know enough to work within the ukgc regs. I understand gambling, what I'm questioning is the wording of the eula.

Cheers though

If Iron is flagged as RMT (I have no reason to accuse him as such, but since they are doing blanket punishment on all involved, just for the virtue of involvement, not actual evidence of involvement) - then will CCP remove his SP too? Which was bought using ISK he made from IWI, which is now all of sudden judged to be involved with RMT, including down to Bankers who just got hired a few weeks ago?

WTF is going on seriously.

Have i read the new EULA correctly?

I can set up and run a 'eve online gambling site' just like the ones that are running or where running before closed for RMT, providing that it is a scam and the only 'winner 'is me?

If Iron is flagged as RMT (I have no reason to accuse him as such, but since they are doing blanket punishment on all involved, just for the virtue of involvement, not actual evidence of involvement) - then will CCP remove his SP too? Which was bought using ISK he made from IWI, which is now all of sudden judged to be involved with RMT, including down to Bankers who just got hired a few weeks ago?

WTF is going on seriously.

Whats going on? You cry couse your favourite toy got called back, couse people can choke from it.

What the hell would you btw call a raffle, when you can play only, if you pay, and your chances multiply if you pay more?

CCP warned everybody about RMT in a devblog long time ago. https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/overlays-isk-buyer-amnesty-and-account-security/ Amnesty period is over.

Have i read the new EULA correctly?

I can set up and run a 'eve online gambling site' just like the ones that are running or where running before closed for RMT, providing that it is a scam and the only 'winner 'is me?

You really can't read? Paying ISK for a service (especially for an ingame service) is not a gambling. Paying ISK for hosting a website not a gambling either.

I wonder why anybody surprised. Iron was against the rules for long time, couse CCP already said these things only allowed if everybody have the same chance for winning ingame things. Raffles for those only, who payed for him is brake this rule. CCP should step this much earlier.

A raffle is gambling.

Sssssh dude, that was irony, I wanted to hear the answer from her

Of course then you have to prove that there is a minor competing in the tournament. Good luck with that.

This prevents the horde of Alpha gankers we're all worried about.

Right now: CCP has the right to terminate your account immediately if you don't pay
After: CCP will notify you 90 days before terminating you if you don't pay
Reality: CCP hasn't ever used this clause

Why people are up in arms about getting 90 days notice to something CCP currently has the right to do immediately is beyond me.

CCP may terminate the EULA, close all your Accounts, and cancel all rights granted to you under the EULA if: (i) your account has been inactive for a number of 90 days;

Why do you think gambling IRL is restricted in many countries?
Because gambling is bad, mkay.

sure, and where is the proof that any minors that need protecting are playing on EveBet or similar sites? same thing :)

nope, it's because the authorities feel a need to substitute parents that are too stupid to properly teach their kids about things that are unhealthy for life. Why in the world is it, that I don't need anything restricted, and despite not needing it, I know enough about this or that being bad for me, to not end up homeless after having lost everything to gambling, or even dead from drug overdose?

In fact (a little overstretched, just to prove my point), remove any restrictions on anything, you'll leave more breathing and living room for people intelligent enough not to need being told what's wrong for their life.

Here's a question:

Let's say I want a Black Ops BPC, but I have no skill.
Then I talk with some alliance dude on Discord and he's willing to help.
So I give him enough ISK to buy a single run BPC, required data cores, and the job installation fee. Also a bit of ISK for his trouble.
In short, I reach a deal with a dude through an external service, and hand over my ISK for a chance based outcome.
Am I breaking the new EULA?

Good afternoon capsuleers!

Today we're here to announce some changes to the EVE Online EULA that are coming with the launch of EVE Online: Ascension.

You can read all about them in this Dev Blog, which includes a handy red-lined version of the new EULA that will come into effect on Tuesday, November 8th, 2016.


Updates & Clarifications:

The 90 day clause:

Our policy on inactive accounts has not changed, we have simply shortened the notice period from six months to three months due to a potentially higher volume of account creation.

Don't need it, just needs to be possible. The American compulsion to sue then takes over.

Here's a question:

Let's say I want a Black Ops BPC, but I have no skill.
Then I talk with some alliance dude on Discord and he's willing to help.
So I give him enough ISK to buy a single run BPC, required data cores, and the job installation fee. Also a bit of ISK for his trouble.
In short, I reach a deal with a dude through an external service, and hand over my ISK for a chance based outcome.
Am I breaking the new EULA?

Not going to read through all this to see if anybody had called you guys out on it but here:

So to be clear, after years of free publicity as these sites sponsored places like EN24, CZ, alllllllll the podcasts that got you attention on twitch and gaming sites, after they carry your tournament this year for the first bit and do an arguably better job than you yourself have this year, after all that, you're just going to take a heaving dump on their chest and outright shut them down because of .........

What a great way to thank your playerbase for its years of service keeping your company afloat.


So your own media is sparse, who do you suggest pays the writers that generate interest in your game now? Who pays the streamers that give newer players a glimpse of a game they might get hooked on?

Your community held you up when you were down, and your response to that is to purposely gut everything that currently generates content from the player base.


EDIT: Not to mention, prohibition has literally never worked, people will still gamble.

Here's a question:

Let's say I want a Black Ops BPC, but I have no skill.
Then I talk with some alliance dude on Discord and he's willing to help.
So I give him enough ISK to buy a single run BPC, required data cores, and the job installation fee. Also a bit of ISK for his trouble.
In short, I reach a deal with a dude through an external service, and hand over my ISK for a chance based outcome.
Am I breaking the new EULA?

it's RMT

So how much ISK was taken out of your wallet?

I didn't do the gambling thing save a couple times I tried Somer Blink,so no big loss for me. And I think I lean towards the opinion that CCP should have never allowed it in the 1st place (same with ISBoxer). The legal implications shore up that belief for me.

All that said I will offer this one bit of Devil's Advocacy. CCP has a tendency to shoot it's self in the foot when making changes like this. Like with the whole skill que changes that lead to a decrease in logins. Or how the Sov changes almost guarantee there won't be another Asakai or B-R (ie huge battle that generates PR that leads to subs)

There will be negative unintended consequences behind this, because some people used the stuff the got from these gambling sites to create content, whether it's the guy who won that Cynabal that one time (and that led him to try solo pvp now he's doing it every day) or the shadowy "Broker-like" figure starting massive New Eden changing warsm (that generate real life news and thus subs) because some dude ticked him off.

I said clearly ISK loss is not the major issue. RMTers deserve to get banned and their stuff confiscated, and any ISK given to RMTers can be removed from the game. I totally agree with that. Although I cashed out trillions from IWI, my ISK are safe as they are mine and in my hand and I have never RMTed.

But it seems you don't know how banking system worked in IWI. Bankers banked with their own ISK, within the limit they can afford with their personal ISK gained through legitimate means. But CCP confiscated all ISK from all bankers. It was a blanket punishment and players and bankers who may not have been involved with RMT suffered loss. The amount is not the issue here. It's about whether such blanket punishment is justifiable.

Not going to read through all this to see if anybody had called you guys out on it but here:

So to be clear, after years of free publicity as these sites sponsored places like EN24, CZ, alllllllll the podcasts that got you attention on twitch and gaming sites, after they carry your tournament this year for the first bit and do an arguably better job than you yourself have this year, after all that, you're just going to take a heaving dump on their chest and outright shut them down because of .........

What a great way to thank your playerbase for its years of service keeping your company afloat.


So your own media is sparse, who do you suggest pays the writers that generate interest in your game now? Who pays the streamers that give newer players a glimpse of a game they might get hooked on?

Your community held you up when you were down, and your response to that is to purposely gut everything that currently generates content from the player base.


EDIT: Not to mention, prohibition has literally never worked, people will still gamble.

While that is funny,he's also right. I don't think CCP has a choice giving that UK court case,but I also think this change is going to have a bad chilling effect on EVE, because like Grath said, the operations that got banned did drive a lot of value towards EVE, and i don't know if anything is going to be able to replace that.

Not going to read through all this to see if anybody had called you guys out on it but here:

So to be clear, after years of free publicity as these sites sponsored places like EN24, CZ, alllllllll the podcasts that got you attention on twitch and gaming sites, after they carry your tournament this year for the first bit and do an arguably better job than you yourself have this year, after all that, you're just going to take a heaving dump on their chest and outright shut them down because of .........

What a great way to thank your playerbase for its years of service keeping your company afloat.


So your own media is sparse, who do you suggest pays the writers that generate interest in your game now? Who pays the streamers that give newer players a glimpse of a game they might get hooked on?

Your community held you up when you were down, and your response to that is to purposely gut everything that currently generates content from the player base.


EDIT: Not to mention, prohibition has literally never worked, people will still gamble.

Not going to read through all this to see if anybody had called you guys out on it but here:

So to be clear, after years of free publicity as these sites sponsored places like EN24, CZ, alllllllll the podcasts that got you attention on twitch and gaming sites, after they carry your tournament this year for the first bit and do an arguably better job than you yourself have this year, after all that, you're just going to take a heaving dump on their chest and outright shut them down because of .........

What a great way to thank your playerbase for its years of service keeping your company afloat.


So your own media is sparse, who do you suggest pays the writers that generate interest in your game now? Who pays the streamers that give newer players a glimpse of a game they might get hooked on?

Your community held you up when you were down, and your response to that is to purposely gut everything that currently generates content from the player base.


EDIT: Not to mention, prohibition has literally never worked, people will still gamble.

I look forward to the day that they catch up with you too.

I look forward to the day that they catch up with you too.

Well after all the years i will quit eve now.
@ CP create some content and dont punish the Community for doing it.
Eve is a boring Game now not worth playing it anymore

The new EULA wording says nothing about giving notice:
It simply reserves CCP's right to close your accounts if any of them is inactive for 90 days.

What bothers me is the use of the word "all" that I've highlighted. That means that if you have several accounts and any one of them becomes inactive CCP may close ALL of them - even those that are fully subbed.

That may not be the intention, but it's what that wording means.

Exactly. It is exchange of RL work/material/server cost etc for ISK. Only difference is that there is no 'chance based gambling element' involved. IWI was said to be shut down not because it's a gambling site, but because of RMT. So it's a legit question to ask at this point what they mean by RMT. The whole revised EULA is so hastily worded and not clear on many issues, evndienced by lots of people here asking about scenarios whether that would be ok or not in the new EULA.

So how much ISK was taken out of your wallet?

Look, I'm pretty sure most people at CCP don't care if you want to gamble with ISK. And they might be fine with some gambling sites in an ideal world.

But we don't live in an ideal world. So CCP just decided to chuck the whole thing into the waste bin to be done with it and avoid any hassles that could involve IRL lawyers and costs.

So your own media is sparse, who do you suggest pays the writers that generate interest in your game now? Who pays the streamers that give newer players a glimpse of a game they might get hooked on?

TMC did all of the above mentioned.

Without RMTing it all.

I never took money from IWI. Was never offered the money. Was never given money to stream (in-game money). I provided on average the MOST views for CCP and Twitch for eve online (average for 9 months was 900 viewers), almost triple that of other streamers like Ironbank.

Longest EVE Online streamer, long time fansite / guide creator for EVE. I never needed nor took ISK from any gambling 3rd party to do what I do.

WTF...seriously, there is s a pretty clear definition of RMT, they found a way to exchange ISK for RL currency. That's it.

So ban RMT'ers and let the legit sites keep going is what you're saying?

Sites like the eve poker site that has existed for years?

I mean seriously boat, I know you're supposed to carry the hate boner flag for GSF after the war happened but this is dumb, people will still gamble, gambling has been in eve since time began, shutting down the sites that power the community wont do a damn thing to stop it and only serve to hurt the community.

So ban RMT'ers and let the legit sites keep going is what you're saying?

Sites like the eve poker site that has existed for years?

I mean seriously boat, I know you're supposed to carry the hate boner flag for GSF after the war happened but this is dumb, people will still gamble, gambling has been in eve since time began, shutting down the sites that power the community wont do a damn thing to stop it and only serve to hurt the community.