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R3ign
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Posted - 2007.04.16 10:39:00 -
[31]
Ppl who say titans in their current form should stay in game have obviously never fight under titan presence. If a titan is around all you can do is go to pos or dock and log off. Thats why they are ruining the game.
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.04.16 11:04:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: goodby4u
BOB's second titan fought back...Plus there were 2 other titans that died and one that got close to being built but the pos got brought down.
FFS, those are NOT combat situations.
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly
Radio is essential for Amarr, to call the much needed backup...
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Angus McLean
Gallente
Divinity Trials
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Posted - 2007.04.16 11:18:00 -
[33]
Titan - 120 Billion isk plus real weeks of peoples lives to construct. Also keeping it a secret while being built.
I dont know if anyone here has that kind of money, but 120 Billion isk is no laughing figure. It is one that is fairly hard to attain even for an alliance.
The thing I like about eve is the surprise. You get a fleet together, you see a recon in their fleet who opens a cyno, the enemy fleet warps out, and the next thing you realize your all dead.
Overpowered compared to the pricetag and manhours? No not really..Overpowered compared to everything else? Possibly.
But let me say this..if the titan lost its DD, CCP's hope for them being built would crash and people who have built them would complain.
A titan without its DD is useless...aside from the jumping people in and out, which is not worth the 120bil isk and more to maintain.
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Freedom Of Speech
Band of Brothers T-shirt |
ZOMGchampion
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Posted - 2007.04.16 11:26:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Angus McLean
Titan - 120 Billion isk plus real weeks of peoples lives to construct. Also keeping it a secret while being built.
I dont know if anyone here has that kind of money, but 120 Billion isk is no laughing figure. It is one that is fairly hard to attain even for an alliance.
The thing I like about eve is the surprise. You get a fleet together, you see a recon in their fleet who opens a cyno, the enemy fleet warps out, and the next thing you realize your all dead.
Overpowered compared to the pricetag and manhours? No not really..Overpowered compared to everything else? Possibly.
But let me say this..if the titan lost its DD, CCP's hope for them being built would crash and people who have built them would complain.
A titan without its DD is useless...aside from the jumping people in and out, which is not worth the 120bil isk and more to maintain.
See thats the problem, only the rich and powerful alliances can afford them, thus the medium-core gamer, playing EvE say around 2-4 hours a day cant compete.
Doesnt anyone fail to see the big picture when a large alliance owns say 5 titans?
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Glarion Garnier
Solar Wind
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Posted - 2007.04.16 11:32:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Jayne Tamm
i understand that its very expensive and i agree it shud be really powerful!!!
but what im tryin to say is that the ship is fine..its the doomsady weapon that isnt.
i posted acouple ideas about possible fixes a few weeks ago....
but basically 2 things that i thought that cud be changed to make it more balanced are as follows;
1) get rid of the whole dd firing through cyno!! thats just a ridiculous idea!! that makes the titan able to to destroy fleets without it putting itself in any danger!!
2) give the dd a charge up time! say once its activated....give it a period of say a minute or two to charge up. this i feel will just make the whole fight against a titan that little bit more interesting and even.
I Agree with the part that Titans should not be able to DD thru a cyno. Its like giving a player a cheat code to the game. I can only imagine once BOB has their 10 Titan fleet what will happen then.  .
One word Ownage.
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Gawain Hill
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Posted - 2007.04.16 11:38:00 -
[36]
Hey i just worked out a way to make titans useless
STOP FLYING AROUND IN 100 MAN FLEETS
just think if you flew around in gangs of 20 and 30 and just did raids and did small fast hits on the enemy in thier own territory and supprise attacks people wouldn't bother building a titan but what's easier to do raise a 150 man fleet to counter a 100 man fleet or have two people who can move a titan around and take out the whole fleet? (ofcause you need a few people who can fly titans)
just think no more big fleets no more big titans wow how strange is that?
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Kramer Verone
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.04.16 11:44:00 -
[37]
REMOVE OFFICER SMARTBOMBS
and then cap ships will be forced to require their support to survive, thus making support useful.
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Amitabh Bachchan
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Posted - 2007.04.16 11:48:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Amitabh Bachchan on 16/04/2007 11:45:21
Originally by: Jayne Tamm
1) get rid of the whole dd firing through cyno!! thats just a ridiculous idea!! that makes the titan able to to destroy fleets without it putting itself in any danger!!
2) give the dd a charge up time! say once its activated....give it a period of say a minute or two to charge up. this i feel will just make the whole fight against a titan that little bit more interesting and even.
1) = Excellent Idea. Currently, the Titan pilots with the highist killmails are the ones who show up mano a mano and let off a fart. The Titan pilots who are dead are the ones who hide in pos's and cyno blasts, since it forces people to scheme against them as they are never to be seen outside of a pos.
2) = Obsolete the use of a titan. But then again - add in a 2 min charge and give it 15x the damage, so it can hurt seiged capitals. Then again, perhaps not.
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Caldari Online
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Posted - 2007.04.16 11:52:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Gawain Hill
Hey i just worked out a way to make titans useless
STOP FLYING AROUND IN 100 MAN FLEETS
just think if you flew around in gangs of 20 and 30 and just did raids and did small fast hits on the enemy in thier own territory and supprise attacks people wouldn't bother building a titan but what's easier to do raise a 150 man fleet to counter a 100 man fleet or have two people who can move a titan around and take out the whole fleet? (ofcause you need a few people who can fly titans)
just think no more big fleets no more big titans wow how strange is that?
how do you propsoe taking over a region or a station or killing a pos with a 20-30 man gang
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Lucifer Fellblade
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.04.16 11:57:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Caldari Online
Originally by: Gawain Hill
Hey i just worked out a way to make titans useless
STOP FLYING AROUND IN 100 MAN FLEETS
just think if you flew around in gangs of 20 and 30 and just did raids and did small fast hits on the enemy in thier own territory and supprise attacks people wouldn't bother building a titan but what's easier to do raise a 150 man fleet to counter a 100 man fleet or have two people who can move a titan around and take out the whole fleet? (ofcause you need a few people who can fly titans)
just think no more big fleets no more big titans wow how strange is that?
how do you propsoe taking over a region or a station or killing a pos with a 20-30 man gang
Exactly, there isn't a way.
I'd rather see the mechanic for sovreignity change, not requiring these massive fleets, and titans could stay the same.
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Kaptein Trefot
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Posted - 2007.04.16 12:00:00 -
[41]
It was a huge mistake to implement Titans without also implementing some viable means to kill it in open combat. A ship that big and expensive should be able to do a ****laod of damage but it shouldn’t be impossible to kill. Implement means to kill it - maybe some big Tintan killing ships that has no other use than killing titans as in it cant to damage to anything but Titans.
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Spaced Skunk
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.16 12:01:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Amitabh Bachchan
Edited by: Amitabh Bachchan on 16/04/2007 11:45:21
Originally by: Jayne Tamm
1) get rid of the whole dd firing through cyno!! thats just a ridiculous idea!! that makes the titan able to to destroy fleets without it putting itself in any danger!!
2) give the dd a charge up time! say once its activated....give it a period of say a minute or two to charge up. this i feel will just make the whole fight against a titan that little bit more interesting and even.
1) = Excellent Idea. Currently, the Titan pilots with the highist killmails are the ones who show up mano a mano and let off a fart. The Titan pilots who are dead are the ones who hide in pos's and cyno blasts, since it forces people to scheme against them as they are never to be seen outside of a pos.
2) = Obsolete the use of a titan. But then again - add in a 2 min charge and give it 15x the damage, so it can hurt seiged capitals. Then again, perhaps not.
Changing the DD from a titan into an active damage mod for its guns/missiles is a great idea. <3.
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Amitabh Bachchan
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Posted - 2007.04.16 12:01:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Kaptein Trefot
It was a huge mistake to implement Titans without also implementing some viable means to kill it in open combat. A ship that big and expensive should be able to do a ****laod of damage but it shouldnÆt be impossible to kill. Implement means to kill it - maybe some big Tintan killing ships that has no other use than killing titans as in it cant to damage to anything but Titans.
Already exists. Called Spies 
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Hank Showbo
Neyi Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.16 12:05:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Amitabh Bachchan
Originally by: Kaptein Trefot
It was a huge mistake to implement Titans without also implementing some viable means to kill it in open combat. A ship that big and expensive should be able to do a ****laod of damage but it shouldnÆt be impossible to kill. Implement means to kill it - maybe some big Tintan killing ships that has no other use than killing titans as in it cant to damage to anything but Titans.
Already exists. Called Spies
and meta-gaming.
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Depp Knight
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.04.16 12:54:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Depp Knight on 16/04/2007 12:51:45
My 2 cents.
# DD cycle time should be longer.
# DD through a cyno should be nerfed or removed totally eg DD strength through a cyno will decrease the DD's power by a large margin, reducing its strength to only kill cruisers or smaller.
# When the DD is activated it should prevent the Titan from jumping out for a short period of time. ie 10 mins.
Apart from that, the titan is fine just only slightly overpowered.
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Kamikaaazi
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.04.16 12:59:00 -
[46]
nerf the DD but add other options against blobbing. Limit chars less than 1 year to high sec. Chars less than 2 years to low sec. If there are 100 ppl in system start kicking ppl with less skillpoints so in the end only top100 can be in the same system.
Blob of 400 t1 crapship pilots shouldnt kill (crash the server) 100 man high end t2 fitted fleet.
yarr |
Aterna
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Posted - 2007.04.16 13:01:00 -
[47]
You can put a pos into reinforced with 20-30 people. That isn't a valid argument. The problem comes into play when you try to kill the POS, and your 20-30 man capital fleet faces down an anti-capital fleet. Sovereignty does need changing, to reduce dependency on large numbers of people to ensure victory or to at least have a fighting chance.
The DD itself is fine, the problem I see is this:
I was Doomsday'd by Tom Mccash of Dusk and Dawn a few weeks ago. They set up bait for us: A hostile battleship was dangled at the gate, we began shooting it. during the chaos of the small engagement, a cyno was lit up. I didn't notice in time, and Tom Mccash jumped into the system. He immediately set off the doomsday. This wasn't some huge fleet battle, it was skewed in our favor quite a bit, and I think the max number of ships was below 10, both sides included. Before I could even warp away (I was in an interceptor, check the griefwatch killboards), The lagbomb hit, and I was in my pod when the dust settled. I checked local, and the Titan pilot was gone shortly after I had my pod at a safespot. He jumped in, DD'd us, and jumped out inside of 5 minutes, possibly 3.
Increase the amount of cap used to set off a DD. Make it percentage based, so that a Titan pilot could not use capacitor capacity rigs to push his max cap above the number needed to fire and cyno immediately after.
At the very least, with the ship's recharge rate, it should take a few minutes to be able to escape the system.
The ship may also cost a lot, but firing the Doomsday does not cost a lot. If anything, it costs so little that using it to kill a single T2 fitted battleship means you come out ahead if you are able to scoop the loot, and if not, you've cost them 50 mil in insurance, and you've only lost 20 mil worth of fuel. Jump portaling, does cost a lot of isk. Fuel cost is calculated by the mass of the ship, so jump portaling around a fleet of battleships and support is very costly, but very worth it.
Having been on the receiving end of a DD, having had the pleasure of doing a titan-assisted freighter op, I'd say the ships are a huge asset to any fleet. But the mechanics behind 0.0 warfare need to change, in order for people to stop forming 400 man gangs. Or perhaps mindsets need to change, and people should split their gangs up, feint a mass attack at one system, jump in a token array of capitals and make a show of shooting some stuff, while their real fleet puts POS into reinforced across an entire system.
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WTB new sig, evemail me please. |
ZOMGchampion
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Posted - 2007.04.16 13:18:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kamikaaazi
nerf the DD but add other options against blobbing. Limit chars less than 1 year to high sec. Chars less than 2 years to low sec. If there are 100 ppl in system start kicking ppl with less skillpoints so in the end only top100 can be in the same system.
Blob of 400 t1 crapship pilots shouldnt kill (crash the server) 100 man high end t2 fitted fleet.
Also no pre-WoW players allowed 
No but seriously, your idea is.......
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kliop
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Posted - 2007.04.16 13:19:00 -
[49]
how about making the dd's different...not doing damage but still helping a lot the fleet
like for example the caldari will break lock of everything for 3-5 mins...or somehow distract the sensors and thus reducing locking range etc...
the minmatar will make them unable to move...or at greatly reduced speeds... or not able to warp
and so on...
how long each effect will last is to be decided...
that way the titan will NEED the support fleet to finish of the oponents it wont be as strong as now but still it will be very usefull i think
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Aphotic Raven
Gallente
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.16 13:26:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Ifni
What's the real issue here?
Broken game mechanics, or disappointment at your own performance. If the loss of 2 ships sends you back to Empire, why are you taking part in Alliance level combat? The generally touted phrase is "if you can't afford to lose it, don't fly it."
That applies to Titans too. 120b++ to buy the bpo's and build, and then there's the running costs. It's not cheap to fire the jump portal or doomsday.
It sucks, for you, that you died. But really, Titans are reasonably fine as they are. Just remember that not even a tenth of the player base has seen one yet.
I've had a few deaths to them, I cant say I mind as you can deal with 1 titan reasonably easy if you setup right and dont act like a retard... the only thing that needs looking at imo is the potential cap regen of a titan... if its an anti blob weapon then dont force those trying to kill it to pull out the largest nos/neut battleship blob eves seen...
Its damn cool to see a titan though. If it becomes killable they will be a fine edition to eve in the long run.
Originally by: Dr Cupid
Let me tell you all that I'm really enjoying eve-beta, and can't wait for the real game to come out!
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Lord WarATron
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.04.16 13:32:00 -
[51]
Originally by: kliop
how about making the dd's different...not doing damage but still helping a lot the fleet
like for example the caldari will break lock of everything for 3-5 mins...or somehow distract the sensors and thus reducing locking range etc...
the minmatar will make them unable to move...or at greatly reduced speeds... or not able to warp
and so on...
how long each effect will last is to be decided...
that way the titan will NEED the support fleet to finish of the oponents it wont be as strong as now but still it will be very usefull i think
Intresting. So a Amarr Titan would fire off a NOS bomb, emptying their cap. A Caldari one would ECM bomb the lot of them, breaking all their locks. A Gallente one would probebly dampen them down for a short period of time, and the Minmatar one would just target paint them all......
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Billion Isk Mission |
zwerg
mUfFiN fAcToRy
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Posted - 2007.04.16 13:35:00 -
[52]
sry but stfu?!
... they call me "the lil one" :(
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Galen Silas
Gallente
Lucky Hydra Corp
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Posted - 2007.04.16 13:40:00 -
[53]
I can agree with the op in a way, it seems funny that ccp increased the hp of all the ships in the game to make fights last longer but then again they increase the damage of DD devices. Even though your not likely to run into a titan everyday but still. General fights do last a bit longer, but the odds are slightly still the same.
DD is a bit overpowered but it does make sense to have them in the game not only to make people realize the destructiveness of a Titan, but to also show who took the time to train for them, For the price it's definately fair. Not only this but if you think about it, it kinda evens it out. You know there is only those few titans out there.
Plus it shows other people even those who don't play how in depth eve gets with its material, and what you have to do to get it. I am hoping they make ships even bigger than the Titan. Like a mobile station able to jump out through a cyno and everything lol
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kliop
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Posted - 2007.04.16 13:42:00 -
[54]
Edited by: kliop on 16/04/2007 13:38:38
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: kliop
how about making the dd's different...not doing damage but still helping a lot the fleet
like for example the caldari will break lock of everything for 3-5 mins...or somehow distract the sensors and thus reducing locking range etc...
the minmatar will make them unable to move...or at greatly reduced speeds... or not able to warp
and so on...
how long each effect will last is to be decided...
that way the titan will NEED the support fleet to finish of the oponents it wont be as strong as now but still it will be very usefull i think
Intresting. So a Amarr Titan would fire off a NOS bomb, emptying their cap. A Caldari one would ECM bomb the lot of them, breaking all their locks. A Gallente one would probebly dampen them down for a short period of time, and the Minmatar one would just target paint them all......
see that is y i said about the minamatar...the rest can do what their race thing is...but the minmatar could web them...although u could make it so that all ships will get a signature of 2000.. but i like the idea about nos-ammar, ecm for a min or so cald, dampening for gallente again for short time ...and minmatar well i prefer the scramlling+web...by affecting hyperspace:P cause otherwise mataris will say it aint fair:P
Edit ammar is better with a neutralizing dd^^
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kliop
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Posted - 2007.04.16 13:45:00 -
[55]
or amarr could have a dd that makes the mass of all ships affected twice or reduced teh agility or something? or maybe matar could do that:)
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Trent Jager
Exanimo Inc
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.16 13:46:00 -
[56]
There should be a 10-20min countdown after the titan has set off its ddd before it can active its jump drive. IÆve witnessed the d2 titan cynoing in, instantly setting off its ddd and jumping back out strait after it was finished. Although we took minimal losses and did complete the task we set out to accomplish. I find it a bit lame that there was no element of risk involved in this attack.
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Morreia
The Celestial Element
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Posted - 2007.04.16 13:47:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Kamikaaazi
nerf the DD but add other options against blobbing. Limit chars less than 1 year to high sec. Chars less than 2 years to low sec. If there are 100 ppl in system start kicking ppl with less skillpoints so in the end only top100 can be in the same system.
Blob of 400 t1 crapship pilots shouldnt kill (crash the server) 100 man high end t2 fitted fleet.
Somebody please kill this guy and help to further the human race by removing him for the gene pool.
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
Free Trade Coalition
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Posted - 2007.04.16 13:49:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Phelan Lore
Originally by: goodby4u
The DD weapon was implamented to decrease blobs...I think its fair to have a ship that costs 100bil+be very...very...powerfull.
Clearly it has worked. People don't blob any more.
If anything the existance of titans and the process of building them encourages blobbing.
It doesnt very well no,but its an attempt.
And the last part is quite interesting,their made to kill blobs but the only thing to kill it is a blob...
__________________________________________
Yes it is great being amarr.
I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space. |
Johnny ReeRee
The ReeRee Brigade
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Posted - 2007.04.16 13:51:00 -
[59]
Originally by: R3ign
Ppl who say titans in their current form should stay in game have obviously never fight under titan presence. If a titan is around all you can do is go to pos or dock and log off. Thats why they are ruining the game.
Fly a dreadnought or a carrier?
120+ billion isk for a titan = what? 50 dreadnoughts? Run out a fleet of 50 dreadnoughts and fight the titan.
Don't have 50 capitals to fight it? Too bad, so sad. If you don't make the same level of investment, you should expect to have a few problems.
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Bein Glorious
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.04.16 13:57:00 -
[60]
Doomsdays are not anti-blob weapons. While the effects to the group hit by a doomsday are greater along with the group's size (as in, the bigger the group, the more ships lost), the effects to the individual hit by a doomsday are the exact same no matter what size the group is. A doomsday could be considered anti-blob only if the effects to the individual became decreased as gangs became smaller.
But either way, a weapon that can destroy a potentially limitless number of ships without having to achieve lock, isn't affected by optimal range, falloff or tracking, doesn't expose the pilot to danger, and with an effective range greater than or equal to the range of any of its targets (~250km) is, by principle alone, overpowered. That is the bottom line. |
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