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Titans, the VOTE!

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TitusFlamininus Ars ex Discordia	Posted - 2007.04.16 14:05:00 - [61] Edited by: TitusFlamininus on 16/04/2007 14:02:02 Titans are simply sick because they are indistructable besides of meta-gaming. A Titan with best named Officer capacitor rechargers has a Cap-recharge time of less than 20s! This is beyond sickening. Titans are indistructable due to this cap recharge rate. They can cyno in, let off a big stinker and cyno out within mere seconds. Their DD will destroy any ship capable of holding a titan in place, and any nos-attempts are futile with such an insane recharge rate. Also add the fact that they make anything smaller than a BS useless due to insane amounts of lags. Soon, very soon, dual DD blasts will be a fact and any realistic BS fit can't survive that. So as a summary one can say that Titans have managed to do the following: Increase blobbing, ie. when fighting, it better be worth it! Make non capital support obsolete In the near future make any non-capital ship tactically useless Good going CCP with your Capitals-Online game
Amitabh Bachchan	Posted - 2007.04.16 14:51:00 - [62] Titans are simply sick because they are indistructable besides of meta-gaming. A Titan with best named Officer capacitor rechargers has a Cap-recharge time of less than 20s! This is beyond sickening. Such a setup costs even more than a Titan in the first place! A Titan with all best officer cap rechargers and relays hits the 200bil mark! But if someone had pumped out that much isk on the "I-Win" button, then who is to say there is anything wrong with it? 200bil can buy you 100 dreads, rendering such a Titan obsolete.
Belenkas Amarr	Posted - 2007.04.16 15:11:00 - [63] Edited by: Belenkas on 16/04/2007 15:11:32 IMHO just making the DD a rarer thing to see would fix the problem of unknown future with 10 titans on the field. 1. Remove this (dumbest idea ever I would say) remote-cyno-DD. It ruins the whole point of PvP - you don't have to PvP at all when you are sitting inside POS and clicking the I Win button. 2. Make it somewhat dangerous and the last plea of a Titan to fire his DoomsDay weapon. They have 6+ capital weapon mount points after all - give more PG, give better damage/tracking bonuses so it fires much better than any dread or whatever, make Titans use the weapons as main power. To fire DDD you would need to enter a 'siege' stage. Say 2 minutes to siege up and power up the DDD, then the blast happens wiping out entire t2(fitted) BS fleets, even hurting other capitals, however it costs 100% capacitor and the siege mode remains, and should you want to jump out now, you need to wait say 5 minutes to exit siege mode and whatever time to regenerate the cap to 70%(obviously cap recharges to that level much faster than 5 minutes). After all, it is named DoomsDay Device, so make it being used only when you are totally doomed. But to even out the danger of firing a DDD, add the bonus to firing it - destroys absolutely all, whatever fitted non-capitals, hurts capitals badly, or maybe even disable(unable to lock due to massive EM wave that came with the DDD damage) for 5 minutes(equal to unsiege time). The danger then for the Titan pilot is to get another 50 dread fleet jump on it, what would pretty much mean the end of the ship, unless it has good support. So in general what I want to say, this Titan ship and Doomsday weapon is an epic weapon that should only be used in epic battles. Otherwise, Titans should be used as superior to dreadnought weaponry platform(that should easily solo out 2 and more dreads on its own), brought to battle to fight. And only, ONLY when in big trouble, fire the DDD and hope to exit the field without getting lotsa more ships jump on you and having current capitals on field disabled for the time being. EDIT: when entering siege mode, no message should appear on field, allowing everyone to escape before it fires the DDD.
Hank Showbo Neyi Industries	Posted - 2007.04.16 17:01:00 - [64] Originally by: TitusFlamininus Edited by: TitusFlamininus on 16/04/2007 14:02:02 Titans are simply sick because they are indistructable besides of meta-gaming. A Titan with best named Officer capacitor rechargers has a Cap-recharge time of less than 20s! This is beyond sickening. Titans are indistructable due to this cap recharge rate. They can cyno in, let off a big stinker and cyno out within mere seconds. Their DD will destroy any ship capable of holding a titan in place, and any nos-attempts are futile with such an insane recharge rate. Also add the fact that they make anything smaller than a BS useless due to insane amounts of lags. Soon, very soon, dual DD blasts will be a fact and any realistic BS fit can't survive that. So as a summary one can say that Titans have managed to do the following: Increase blobbing, ie. when fighting, it better be worth it! Make non capital support obsolete In the near future make any non-capital ship tactically useless Good going CCP with your Capitals-Online game Thats a pretty sick actually...what cap rechargers/mods are we talking about?
Taipan Gedscho Muzzletov Gewaltski Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.16 17:09:00 - [65] i dont get it... people wanted bigger smartbombs. people got bigger smartbombs. why isnt everybody happy? Only you can save mmorpgs - Stop crying for nerfs today!
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.04.16 17:09:00 - [66] i vote nay
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2007.04.16 17:34:00 - [67] Originally by: ZOMGchampion Originally by: Angus McLean Titan - 120 Billion isk plus real weeks of peoples lives to construct. Also keeping it a secret while being built. I dont know if anyone here has that kind of money, but 120 Billion isk is no laughing figure. It is one that is fairly hard to attain even for an alliance. The thing I like about eve is the surprise. You get a fleet together, you see a recon in their fleet who opens a cyno, the enemy fleet warps out, and the next thing you realize your all dead. Overpowered compared to the pricetag and manhours? No not really..Overpowered compared to everything else? Possibly. But let me say this..if the titan lost its DD, CCP's hope for them being built would crash and people who have built them would complain. A titan without its DD is useless...aside from the jumping people in and out, which is not worth the 120bil isk and more to maintain. See thats the problem, only the rich and powerful alliances can afford them, thus the medium-core gamer, playing EvE say around 2-4 hours a day cant compete. Doesnt anyone fail to see the big picture when a large alliance owns say 5 titans? 2 things to note. 1: EvE is about friendships, we should know that and most do know that. If you argue against it the ntake alook around, everything is based on Commands, corporations alliances. 2: You cant compete with..? No one is going to DD you if your alone NPC'ing, and if your out in 0.0 expect to get camped/blobbed/DD'd anyways. So the casual gamer never should find himself in that kind of situation unless he's in enemy territory or hes attacking a titan he found.. ---------------- Freedom Of Speech Band of Brothers T-shirt
korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.04.16 17:38:00 - [68] Edited by: korrey on 16/04/2007 17:35:35 Originally by: TitusFlamininus Edited by: TitusFlamininus on 16/04/2007 14:02:02 Titans are simply sick because they are indistructable besides of meta-gaming. A Titan with best named Officer capacitor rechargers has a Cap-recharge time of less than 20s! This is beyond sickening. Titans are indistructable due to this cap recharge rate. They can cyno in, let off a big stinker and cyno out within mere seconds. Their DD will destroy any ship capable of holding a titan in place, and any nos-attempts are futile with such an insane recharge rate. Also add the fact that they make anything smaller than a BS useless due to insane amounts of lags. Soon, very soon, dual DD blasts will be a fact and any realistic BS fit can't survive that. So as a summary one can say that Titans have managed to do the following: Increase blobbing, ie. when fighting, it better be worth it! Make non capital support obsolete In the near future make any non-capital ship tactically useless Good going CCP with your Capitals-Online game Haha 20 second cap recharge time on a titan...I would like someone to show me these STACKED figures. Unless of course you forgot to add in your stacking penalty on your mods. And even if it was possible to get a Titan to cap recharge in 20 seconds...what does it matter lol. You guys are all arguing uselessly. If you fit it to recharge in 20 sec then you probably used all your slots..meaning? No one would do it and its pointless. I can get a ferox to field a Mega Pulse Laser II...does this mean im amazing and should be nerfed? Or does this mean no one gives a flip? I can get a zealot to fly 25km/s, does this mean it should be nerfed, or does this mean I was bored and came up with a completely useless setup that will help me nil in a combat engagement?... my word people.. ----------- 24.01.06 Small patch that addresses some minor balancing issues 1) All minmatar pilots have been deleted
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2007.04.16 17:41:00 - [69] Final word of note... x~ Dreads + Support fleet = Dead titan. ---------------- Freedom Of Speech Band of Brothers T-shirt
Liang Nuren Red 42 CORE.	Posted - 2007.04.16 18:29:00 - [70] Word of note: It doesn't matter how big your blob is if you want to kill the Titan. You'll likely never see the Titan. This is what you'll see (and I've seen this a few times): 2 blobs are clashing Titan pilot enters system Half of each blob dies Titan pilot leaves system Total elapsed time: 1-2 minutes tops. Ok, so lets bring 100 dreads and 500 support staff to kill a single Titan. Titan remote DDD, 450 of your support staff is dead, and 1 minute later, the Titan disappears from local. Yay. Hmmmmmm... More interestingly: 1 mom vs 50-100 blob of BS. All the mom's fighters die. 100+ points of scram on the mom (silly FC.. heh heh heh.) Mom jumps out. Simply put: Complete EW immunity needs to go away, and remote DDD should go away. As it stands, 100,000 people in officer fitted battleships are likely to either A) never see the Titan/MOM or B) get Remote DDD'd and watch the Titan pilot leave local 1 minute later. Liang

Dregann Amarr Trading Company	Posted - 2007.04.16 18:46:00 - [71] Titan are going to bring the end of eve tbh
Lars Intarestum	Posted - 2007.04.16 19:13:00 - [72] Edited by: Lars Intarestum on 16/04/2007 19:09:59 I'm just a noob, but I noticed "1 Titan = 50 Dreads"... Has there ever been a 50 Dread fleet? I can imagine getting that many highly skilled pilots in one place at one time and managing to pin down a titan so that you could repeatedly bounce the aforementioned Dreads long enough for their guns to tear the titan down to be rather difficult... 'Cause, bubbles are pretty useless since the Titan's going to kill them with smartbombs. Fighters are pretty useless with those same smartbombs. Anything smaller than a BS is going to go pop from the DD. The BSes would add some damage, I guess, but then again, the Titan will have its own support fleet. So, I'm guessing in order to take down a Titan, you'll need a Titan and X Dreads, foreknowledge of where the Titan will be, perfect timing and fairly horrible piloting on the part of the Titan's pilot. Ummm... That doesn't seem very easy at all, even given equal resources spent.
VanNostrum	Posted - 2007.04.16 19:19:00 - [73] I dunno what the fuss about DD is, i survived all the DDs i just wasn't there
ispyozs	Posted - 2007.04.16 19:38:00 - [74] there is nothing wrong with the ships or the lag in eve. i want roleplay in the station.cus thats what is cool "walking on stations"
Badhands Gallente Gottland Production Transport Mines	Posted - 2007.04.16 19:50:00 - [75] The ONLY problem with titans is that they never have to be vulnerable to use their DD. I am not against 100% ewar immunity. I am not against their cap recharge rate. I am not against anything except for (you guessed it) cyno DD.
Vishnej Demonic Retribution Pure.	Posted - 2007.04.16 20:22:00 - [76] Equating "well, he worked for it - so it must be fair" with a good effect on gameplay is fallacious. For example: In 2009, CCP will begin selling a 1-system CONCORD task force that will follow your standings for 3.5 trillion isk. This makes PvP in that system impossible, and grant you permanent ownership. "It's fair, because it's so expensive." Not really. Fair is a term used in many different contexts - and the point is that such a task force would have a negative effect on the game. Currently titans are too powerful, and control too much of the battle for too little vulnerability. They actively discourage actually engaging, not blobs. The titan-owning side gets to blob all they want, and their blob has drastically increased mobility due to the jump bridge.
Hardy Evar	Posted - 2007.04.16 20:25:00 - [77] to the peeps saying a titan = 50 dreads or enough bss to pop a titan and therefore its balanced then basically ure missing the point. Eve is balanced so that a sinlge pilot with a 100mil ship should never be equal in any way shape or form to 100 pilots with a 1mil ship. Granted the titan isnt as powerful as 70 odd dreads but it is imo overpowered as no single pilot should be soo effective - its takes away from what makes eve combat which is the neccesary teamwork to get a campaign done. Secondly eve alliance warfare should be about enjoyable combat. Fighting against an alliance with a titan is extrememly boring. In order to actually kill one youd need the titan pilot to make a mistake essentially and therefore actually fighting one is pretty pointless - you cant sit about all day with enough cap ships to actually pop it and enough dictors to keep it held down while its smartboming your interdiction spheres.No competent titans pilot should ever die (atleat not while hes online anyway aggro timers is a different thing). It discourages fleet combat which imo is a bad thing and the cost of using the DDD is far too low. It currently costs a couple of hundred mil isk ish (i think?) and large alliances happily use it to pop any small gang (seen it fired at gangs of less that 20peeps before). DDD activation should cost atleast a couple of bil isk and it should be for RARE occasions where u are completely outnubmered and its absolutely neccesary to use it. It should not be able to activate it remotely titan should not be able to jump into a system fire dd are escape before any tackler has a chance to put probes down (think titan + mom jump in .. titan fires ddd .. mom transfers cap to titan .. titan jumps out a few secs after ddd goes off. ZERO risk to titan) on the other foot bs should not be able to tank a ddd imo
Vishnej Demonic Retribution Pure.	Posted - 2007.04.16 20:26:00 - [78] Originally by: Gawain Hill Hey i just worked out a way to make titans useless STOP FLYING AROUND IN 100 MAN FLEETS just think if you flew around in gangs of 20 and 30 and just did raids and did small fast hits on the enemy in thier own territory and supprise attacks people wouldn't bother building a titan but what's easier to do raise a 150 man fleet to counter a 100 man fleet or have two people who can move a titan around and take out the whole fleet? (ofcause you need a few people who can fly titans) just think no more big fleets no more big titans wow how strange is that? And against POS targets?
Wiktorja Caldari W.A.R.S.	Posted - 2007.04.16 20:28:00 - [79] If Titans were CCP's way to deal with blobs, wouldn't it be safe to say that by the time they were wide spread enough to do that task, there wouldn't be any blobs of anything but Titans anyways? That's probably an extreme statement but might not be too far from the truth.
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.04.16 20:47:00 - [80] Originally by: ispyozs there is nothing wrong with the ships or the lag in eve. i want roleplay in the station.cus thats what is cool "walking on stations" You too ? --- Cheap paint ftw

Shebee Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.04.16 20:48:00 - [81] Your just jealous, you wouldnt be whining if youd own a titan yourself. and killing noobs.
JenDen Caldari LFS Corp	Posted - 2007.04.16 21:15:00 - [82] Originally by: Angus McLean Final word of note... x~ Dreads + Support fleet = Dead titan. Heh, you're missing something this topic is all about. Not even gang of dreads can do what titan can - warp in, insta-kill most of your "support fleet" and warp out safely.
Dracu1a Gallente Warrior Nation United	Posted - 2007.04.16 21:26:00 - [83] Some good points here. Some bad ones. Heres what I say: Lots of people dont like cyno-dd. In its current state I dont either. But I think (someone mentioned it in the last page) that cyno-dd's should remain, BUT the damage should be vastly reduced allowing it only to really affect t1 cruisers and below, while still damaging some of the higher end ships. The cost to do cyno-dd should also be increased a ton. They still COULD have a place, but in their current state, no plz change. If the titan decides to use its DD on an enemy fleet that is currently pounding him, he should be able to use it for MAX damage, but also have his cap gimped significantly. This would make him havea VERY viable last stand (possibly even increase DD damage when used in this instance) but still be hurting from its cap reduction (aka. not able to immediately jump out) There should be special capital sized turrets that can fire relatively quick and have good tracking/range so it can still be of use during battle, causing severe dmg to battleship sized ships. Think of it somewhat as modified dread weapons. I think they should also have a much higher multiplier for gang mods. Meaning if it decides to play the support role (Warefare links in highslots instead of guns) the support it throws out should be MUCH greater than those of Command Ships. Thoughts?
Dimitri Forgroth The Bolt	Posted - 2007.04.16 21:43:00 - [84] Originally by: korrey Haha 20 second cap recharge time on a titan...I would like someone to show me these STACKED figures. Unless of course you forgot to add in your stacking penalty on your mods. And even if it was possible to get a Titan to cap recharge in 20 seconds...what does it matter lol. You guys are all arguing uselessly. If you fit it to recharge in 20 sec then you probably used all your slots..meaning? No one would do it and its pointless. 1) Cap recharge is not stacked. 2) A titan adds very little to te "front-line" apart from maybe a bit of awe. With a cap recharge setup it can cyno into a system, fire the DD, and be out within a minute NO RISK.
Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.04.16 21:47:00 - [85] Originally by: korrey Haha 20 second cap recharge time on a titan...I would like someone to show me these STACKED figures. Unless of course you forgot to add in your stacking penalty on your mods. And even if it was possible to get a Titan to cap recharge in 20 seconds...what does it matter lol. You guys are all arguing uselessly. Are you an idiot? There is no stacking penalty on cap recharge modules. Quote: If you fit it to recharge in 20 sec then you probably used all your slots..meaning? No one would do it and its pointless. I can get a ferox to field a Mega Pulse Laser II...does this mean im amazing and should be nerfed? Or does this mean no one gives a flip? What good is a ferox with a mega pulse on it? The titan with the all cap recharge mods can never be killed and can kill an entire support fleet once an hour. Your mega pulse ferox can do what? Quote: I can get a zealot to fly 25km/s, does this mean it should be nerfed, or does this mean I was bored and came up with a completely useless setup that will help me nil in a combat engagement?... my word people.. The 25km/sec zealot cant actually reach that speed without prepositioned logistics ships to cap boost it, and last I checked it cant kill a fleet of BS every hour.
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2007.04.16 22:40:00 - [86] well this argument has some point in my eyes. my opinion is that ccps move to implement capital class vessels for pos destruction, motherships and carriers for support and titans for overwhelming strategic and psychological power will shift the current terretorial warfare into one position where only the wealthiest ppl will be able to participate in this, as dreadnaughts and motherships and titans will become a standard in such engagements without room for the comon pilot with his cruiser. also this means that small alliances are dead from this stage on. isk play a big role in eve. and isk inflation is a big problem also. ccp brought in stuff which requires huge amouts of isk and therefore forces ppl to heat the inflation by isk farming (WoW grind anyone ?). ofc one must say that ccp created a huge isk sink aswell since loosing dreadnaughts is an inevitable part of alliance warfare. the saddest point is that the small and average man who fights in cruisers and battleships in average gangs ranging from 5 to 20 man will not have any significant impact on the outcome of alliance warfare as the only thing which counts atm is isk (for dreads, pos and stuff) and skillpoints of veteran players (which enables the whole madness). the rest of eve got shafted. also one argument is eve's playability. theres no way eve can support this intended way of gaming due to performance issues aka lag, freezeups, node deaths etc. imo pos warfare should be overhauled. territory shouldnt be gained by simple capture the flag stuff (pos siege). territory should be gained by having the upper hand in a region like in the old days when ppl actually had to be in place for claiming space and not just jumpcloning to their dreads and roll on the battlefield within a timeframe dictated by pos fuel calculation. influence needs to be enforced by manpower in forms of patrols, roaming gangs and dedicated players who enjoy the battle. and not by anchoring 20 pos with a load of fuel in em so everything is fine. player must live and work in 0.0 to be able to claim their space. not just clonejumping between empire and 0.0 for getting supplies while the pos' hold the enemy in place for at least 3 days so u have sufficinet time to prepare and insure u never get any serious problems. i say reduce the pos spamming. make pos unimportant to soverenity. and implement a system of closing down markets (blockade) or deactivate stations and/or gates by player interaction. make it possible for players to aquire limited gate control by strategic actions vs. key instalations within enemy terretory or simply hack gates with deployable structures which can be destroyed by smaller taskforces. make it possible to implemtent lone pos structures which interefere with enemy pos so those are a tactical target in terms of upholding ones industrial structures by killing the interferring enemy pos. make pos spamm limits so single pos have more importance then spamming 20 at a time. make eve a game for everyone and not just for those who fly the big ships. encourage novice players to venture into 0.0 instead sucking roids in empire knowing that those who joined in 2003 rule 0.0 undisputted for all eternity. make big alliances easier to throw out of their space, easier to challange. competition is good for eve. Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.04.16 22:56:00 - [87] If you decrease damage of the DD, than people will just get more titans. Its only a matter of time, thats all. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.04.16 22:56:00 - [88] Edited by: welsh wizard on 16/04/2007 23:02:12 I think the ops underlying gripe mirrors that of many older players too. I'm not old enough to remember Cruisers being the pride of any gang but I've been around to see the supremacy and ultimate demise of the battleship fleet. Those days are effectively over with the introduction of capitals and super capitals, especially the titan. I'm of the opinion that every fleet should be built around a core of fleet battleships, instead the fleet is now built around a core of capital ships. The simple fact is capital ships can act alone if you stick enough of them together (exception being cyno ships), I'm not sure this is as CCP intended. The great ships of the past were lost without their support fleet, the aircraft carriers were sitting ducks without a frigate & destroyer screen as were battleships. Capital ships in Eve can operate with a little too much impunity, especially super capitals. So in summary I think many players miss the intense battleship fleet fights that decided who controlled the surrounding space. Now capital ships have to be employed and the kicker is, battleships don't. I can't believe there isn't an imposed limit on super capitals in an alliance tbh. I mean it really isn't going to be long before the major alliances are fielding 10 titans and 20 motherships. Who needs a support fleet with that sort of firepower? No-one. edit: Should have read Reto's post above before I posted. That's pretty much the nail on the head tbh.
Shardrael Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.04.16 23:06:00 - [89] ok just one point I wanted to clear up, people who say 76000 dmg is not that much or could be done by battleships etc. you are all fricking stupid. its 76,000 dmg times however many ships in range, with large fleets lets say 100 ships that is then over 7,600,000 dmg with the push of a button which becomes insanely overpowered when an alliance has two or more(not just bob anyone) imo either cut the range of the dd drastically(maybe to 50km), remove the remote cynoing of it, or limit these ships to 1 an alliance(the latter being my least favorite) when these ships become a little more common it will be down to the point where it is not feasible for any smaller group to takeover space without one or defend their space without one.(if fighting against an alliance with one in the hands of a good pilot) Originally by: Stamm Some people might have been convinced by the official announcement posted by Steelrat, but not me, I wasn't convinced until some random alt posts a brand new thread.
Helen STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.04.17 00:04:00 - [90] Edited by: Helen on 17/04/2007 00:00:58 Originally by: welsh wizard Capital ships in Eve can operate with a little too much impunity, especially super capitals. Shush you. You get impunied pretty good with lag as it is when flying a supercapital it tends to attract blobs for some reason...



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