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The crablitt	Posted - 2007.04.16 08:44:00 - [1] Titans - Big big ships, big badda boom iwin button. Jump portals, immune to all EW, almost immune to interdictors when fit with officer smartbomb. In my opinion, the extent of capital ships in EvE should have stayed at Dreadnaught and Carriers (not motherships, just Thanatos, Chimera, Archon and Nidhoggur). Titans should not have been put into EvE, why? Well OK, I've lost 2 ships to a Titan now, extremely annoying, I have lost a Maelstrom and a Vagabond, I am annoyed that a press of a button did that, and popped almost everyone of my fleet too. We WANTED to fight, we WANTED to play EVE, now I find myself leaving alliance warfare and going to empire. Its almost like CCP put the doomsday thing in as a damn 'get rid of lag now' button, it wouldnt even surprise me if that was true. There is no reason to put them in the game, they make no sense. Down with Titans or at least Doomsday Devices! Titans will ruin EvE and territorial warfare in the long run.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.04.16 08:47:00 - [2] The DD weapon was implamented to decrease blobs...I think its fair to have a ship that costs 100bil+be very...very...powerfull. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
The crablitt	Posted - 2007.04.16 08:50:00 - [3] Originally by: goodby4u The DD weapon was implamented to decrease blobs...I think its fair to have a ship that costs 100bil+be very...very...powerfull. Its fair to allow it to create a jump portal, and use a lot of capital sized weapons. The DD isnt fair, and by CCPs standings a bad way to implement an anti-blob system. Titans will ruin EvE and territorial warfare in the long run.
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.04.16 08:50:00 - [4] Hmm as far as i know the lolalition got theyr own titan, just use them ingame instead whining. --- Cheap paint ftw
The crablitt	Posted - 2007.04.16 08:52:00 - [5] Originally by: Valandril Hmm as far as i know the lolalition got theyr own titan, just use them ingame instead whining. They do, and everything dies before we warp into a hostile fleet, so..... Titans will ruin EvE and territorial warfare in the long run.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.04.16 08:53:00 - [6] Originally by: The crablitt Originally by: goodby4u The DD weapon was implamented to decrease blobs...I think its fair to have a ship that costs 100bil+be very...very...powerfull. Its fair to allow it to create a jump portal, and use a lot of capital sized weapons. The DD isnt fair, and by CCPs standings a bad way to implement an anti-blob system. If its so unfair why dont you fly one?Secondly im sure fleets of battleships you could buy with the cost of a titan could probably do more alpha strike then 76k. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
Jayne Tamm	Posted - 2007.04.16 08:56:00 - [7] i love big ships!!! its one of the main reasons i got into this game!!!! but i too believe the dd weapon is overpowered! if it was implemented to help fight against blobs......its not working...as blobs are still a huge problem in eve and ccp needs to look into this a lot more rather than just puttin a huge weapon on a ship and sayin...yeah that will sort it. titans and motherships are awesome..and just make the whole space feel that much better! however i do feel that the DD is a problem..and needs to be looked at and refined..big time!
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.04.16 08:58:00 - [8] Edited by: Valandril on 16/04/2007 08:54:48 Originally by: The crablitt Originally by: Valandril Hmm as far as i know the lolalition got theyr own titan, just use them ingame instead whining. They do, and everything dies before we warp into a hostile fleet, so..... Titans will ruin EvE and territorial warfare in the long run. And we got new age prophercy ! Titans will ruin eve ! No one is safe ! U will never know is beltmining safe atm coz titan will warping and kill u ! /me do some strange gestures with his hands We are too weak to use our titan so lets nerf all titans ! Lets take theyr advantage ! Nerf nerf nerf Now seriously, alliance 0.0 warfare is not about single persons but whole alliances. Don't like it ? Stick with piracy --- Cheap paint ftw
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.04.16 08:59:00 - [9] Originally by: Jayne Tamm i love big ships!!! its one of the main reasons i got into this game!!!! but i too believe the dd weapon is overpowered! if it was implemented to help fight against blobs......its not working...as blobs are still a huge problem in eve and ccp needs to look into this a lot more rather than just puttin a huge weapon on a ship and sayin...yeah that will sort it. titans and motherships are awesome..and just make the whole space feel that much better! however i do feel that the DD is a problem..and needs to be looked at and refined..big time! Once again i must say its one hell of an expensive ship,it should be able to kill its weight,its also very rare. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.04.16 09:02:00 - [10] He does have a point tho. It's not that a ship that costs 100mil is that powerful, fair enough. It's more that such a ship was in the game in the first place. IMO ships like this that can only be built by large alliance (or are supposed to be) add value to the game, giving people a goal to aim at, however on the combat side of things it would be better to have defensive bonuses to your fleet or something, making it a good front line ship, rather than just a one-shot wonder. The DD needs looking at. sgb

The crablitt	Posted - 2007.04.16 09:03:00 - [11] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: The crablitt Originally by: goodby4u The DD weapon was implamented to decrease blobs...I think its fair to have a ship that costs 100bil+be very...very...powerfull. Its fair to allow it to create a jump portal, and use a lot of capital sized weapons. The DD isnt fair, and by CCPs standings a bad way to implement an anti-blob system. If its so unfair why dont you fly one?Secondly im sure fleets of battleships you could buy with the cost of a titan could probably do more alpha strike then 76k. Also them fleets go boom or are left with hardly any HP in 1 press of a button from a Titan. I am fighting a force with a Titan, and fighting with a force that has a Titan. I have to say, I am so far behind being able to PvP in 0.0, the way I liked and enjoyed it, I am considering quiting EvE. Obviously you dont play the game if you dont like it, however I liked it before Titans come into play. EvE's POS wars/territorial battles were so much more fun with just battleships/support/tacklers/dreads. You had to be tactical, you had to think about what you were doing. Now all I can do is just dock or safe spot when a titan comes into play. I am practically useless, we've tried catching the Titan, but the large bubbles we keep placing go boom to fast, and by that time the titan has warped. Its fustrating, so maybe see this thread as a big whine from me, however CCP made Titans tooooooo good. Ok, it takes lots of logistics and isk to build and use, but once its being used, a single ship can scare a 100 man fleet off, because its classed as a Titan. Titans will ruin EvE and territorial warfare in the long run.
Ifni Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.04.16 09:03:00 - [12] What's the real issue here? Broken game mechanics, or disappointment at your own performance. If the loss of 2 ships sends you back to Empire, why are you taking part in Alliance level combat? The generally touted phrase is "if you can't afford to lose it, don't fly it." That applies to Titans too. 120b++ to buy the bpo's and build, and then there's the running costs. It's not cheap to fire the jump portal or doomsday. It sucks, for you, that you died. But really, Titans are reasonably fine as they are. Just remember that not even a tenth of the player base has seen one yet. You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
Miss KillSome Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.04.16 09:07:00 - [13] easy solution: dont creat blobs that are worth DDing.. DD triggering costs alot, so i dont think that in few months everybody would run across low sec and DD u in belt just to get u killed.. Be in small groups and u wont be viable target to DD.
Jayne Tamm	Posted - 2007.04.16 09:11:00 - [14] i understand that its very expensive and i agree it shud be really powerful!!! but what im tryin to say is that the ship is fine..its the doomsady weapon that isnt. i posted acouple ideas about possible fixes a few weeks ago.... but basically 2 things that i thought that cud be changed to make it more balanced are as follows; 1) get rid of the whole dd firing through cyno!! thats just a ridiculous idea!! that makes the titan able to to destroy fleets without it putting itself in any danger!! 2) give the dd a charge up time! say once its activated....give it a period of say a minute or two to charge up. this i feel will just make the whole fight against a titan that little bit more interesting and even.
Spaced Skunk D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.04.16 09:11:00 - [15] Originally by: smallgreenblur He does have a point tho. It's not that a ship that costs 100mil is that powerful, fair enough. It's more that such a ship was in the game in the first place. IMO ships like this that can only be built by large alliance (or are supposed to be) add value to the game, giving people a goal to aim at, however on the combat side of things it would be better to have defensive bonuses to your fleet or something, making it a good front line ship, rather than just a one-shot wonder. The DD needs looking at. sgb I really agree with this statement to be honest. I havent flet the wrath of a doomsday yet, I was close to yesterday though, takeaway arrived at the right time man (Laters, foods here style!) I have no idea of the Logistics needed to actually run a Titan, however I think the Doomsday devices are overpowered. Titans should grant thier fleet a bonus, like they do atm, not sure if the gang bonus they give is for all gang members or just if the dudes set as commander like how gang bonuses work normally. Theres so much potential to have a big epic battle if a Titan comes in, jumps in his fleet, but doesnt use a doomsday device to end most of it the second the doomsday goes off. So for my vote, it would be to re-think about the Titans role, but remove Doomsday Devices from the game.
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.04.16 09:12:00 - [16] Originally by: Miss KillSome easy solution: dont creat blobs that are worth DDing.. DD triggering costs alot, so i dont think that in few months everybody would run across low sec and DD u in belt just to get u killed.. Be in small groups and u wont be viable target to DD. Do you even understand the problem? sgb
Stelteck Minmatar Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.04.16 09:12:00 - [17] The problem of the titan and especially its doomsday weapon is the following : When the ennemy have a titan, the best thing to do is to hide. When every side have a titan, every side hide. It prevents both side to engage in fleet battle (Or at least decrease the amount of battle in a conflit). It makes eve boring. Stelteck. Tau ceti FEDERATION F-NAVY "Brakes are for cowards"
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.04.16 09:14:00 - [18] Edited by: goodby4u on 16/04/2007 09:11:50 Originally by: The crablitt Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: The crablitt Originally by: goodby4u The DD weapon was implamented to decrease blobs...I think its fair to have a ship that costs 100bil+be very...very...powerfull. Its fair to allow it to create a jump portal, and use a lot of capital sized weapons. The DD isnt fair, and by CCPs standings a bad way to implement an anti-blob system. If its so unfair why dont you fly one?Secondly im sure fleets of battleships you could buy with the cost of a titan could probably do more alpha strike then 76k. Also them fleets go boom or are left with hardly any HP in 1 press of a button from a Titan. I am fighting a force with a Titan, and fighting with a force that has a Titan. I have to say, I am so far behind being able to PvP in 0.0, the way I liked and enjoyed it, I am considering quiting EvE. Obviously you dont play the game if you dont like it, however I liked it before Titans come into play. EvE's POS wars/territorial battles were so much more fun with just battleships/support/tacklers/dreads. You had to be tactical, you had to think about what you were doing. Now all I can do is just dock or safe spot when a titan comes into play. I am practically useless, we've tried catching the Titan, but the large bubbles we keep placing go boom to fast, and by that time the titan has warped. Its fustrating, so maybe see this thread as a big whine from me, however CCP made Titans tooooooo good. Ok, it takes lots of logistics and isk to build and use, but once its being used, a single ship can scare a 100 man fleet off, because its classed as a Titan. 100 man fleet of bses costs(without mods)10billion,titan is 100billion+ If the fleet had a brain and wanted to kill that titan all they really need to do is equip hardeners specific to the titan..Bump it and continually bubble it till it dies. And tbh a titan pilot wont be looking for single targets,so warp a small group in to kill it...If it DD's then warp your bigger group in to pound it into submission. Tbh DD's or titans are not the problems,the bubbles are...Mainly because titans can pop them easily with officer smartbombs which shouldnt be the case. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
Darqion Zenix	Posted - 2007.04.16 09:15:00 - [19] im new, so what i think matters little im sure.. the idea of a titan is very nice imo, a very big ship, that had a whole alliance working on it, and it should have a real benefit when decided to put in use. altho i dont see destroying an entire fleet in a button pressed, is the benefit i was hoping for. as mentioned, people PVP to do just that.. pvp. they wanna fight, and with something destroying a entire fleet in a second fighting doesnt even come into play, and thus PVP is no more. problem is tho, that once something makes it into a game, its VERY rare to see a 100% overhaul of its uses. tho maybe in eve its commenplace, so yea :p
The crablitt	Posted - 2007.04.16 09:17:00 - [20] Originally by: Stelteck The problem of the titan and especially its doomsday weapon is the following : When the ennemy have a titan, the best thing to do is to hide. When every side have a titan, every side hide. It prevents both side to engage in fleet battle (Or at least decrease the amount of battle in a conflit). It makes eve boring. Stelteck. Amen. Titans will ruin EvE and territorial warfare in the long run.

Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.04.16 09:30:00 - [21] Originally by: goodby4u If the fleet had a brain and wanted to kill that titan all they really need to do is equip hardeners specific to the titan..Bump it and continually bubble it till it dies. Stop using that cheap argument and try it for yourself. Alot of people have fought titans with quite some tactical talent amongst them, and yet no titan has been killed in combat. It's NOT easy. Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Radio is essential for Amarr, to call the much needed backup...
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.04.16 09:45:00 - [22] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: goodby4u If the fleet had a brain and wanted to kill that titan all they really need to do is equip hardeners specific to the titan..Bump it and continually bubble it till it dies. Stop using that cheap argument and try it for yourself. Alot of people have fought titans with quite some tactical talent amongst them, and yet no titan has been killed in combat. It's NOT easy. BOB's second titan fought back...Plus there were 2 other titans that died and one that got close to being built but the pos got brought down. And a mothership also went down by MC under this same tactic...Got close to living but died nonetheless. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
Hazkr Rwzk	Posted - 2007.04.16 09:54:00 - [23] the only thign overpwoered about the DD is a titan can cyno in DD and cyno out straight away. i don't mind that big old ship beign there and wiping out some of our ships but atleast force it to stay there long enough for us to counter act. i think there should be a 5 minute delay between DDs and being able to jump.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.04.16 09:55:00 - [24] Originally by: Hazkr Rwzk the only thign overpwoered about the DD is a titan can cyno in DD and cyno out straight away. i don't mind that big old ship beign there and wiping out some of our ships but atleast force it to stay there long enough for us to counter act. i think there should be a 5 minute delay between DDs and being able to jump. Then you'd hate the fact that that cyno could launch a DD __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
Karma Coma The Rising Stars	Posted - 2007.04.16 09:59:00 - [25] Just wanted to add that the game had a complete overhaul for the purpose of making engagements last longer... yet then the ultimate weapon is introduced, this goes against the way the game 'should' be developing and, in on its own, would warrent looking into dds. just my 2 cents
Gibbal Slogspit Buffed Rumpuss Zit Dids	Posted - 2007.04.16 10:03:00 - [26] Originally by: Karma Coma Just wanted to add that the game had a complete overhaul for the purpose of making engagements last longer... yet then the ultimate weapon is introduced, this goes against the way the game 'should' be developing and, in on its own, would warrent looking into dds. just my 2 cents Very much true, they boost HP and everything to make them longer, so whats the deal with the DD?
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.04.16 10:05:00 - [27] Originally by: goodby4u The DD weapon was implamented to decrease blobs...I think its fair to have a ship that costs 100bil+be very...very...powerfull. Clearly it has worked. People don't blob any more. If anything the existance of titans and the process of building them encourages blobbing. -
Amitabh Bachchan	Posted - 2007.04.16 10:09:00 - [28] Edited by: Amitabh Bachchan on 16/04/2007 10:06:40 Originally by: Stelteck The problem of the titan and especially its doomsday weapon is the following : When the ennemy have a titan, the best thing to do is to hide. When every side have a titan, every side hide. It prevents both side to engage in fleet battle (Or at least decrease the amount of battle in a conflit). It makes eve boring. Stelteck. If you bring equal numbers, then people fight. If you bring 300 vs 90, then the 90 will of course titan blast Why are the ships not setup to tank titan blasts?
Spaced Skunk D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.04.16 10:13:00 - [29] Edited by: Spaced Skunk on 16/04/2007 10:09:35 I never got the blob concept. If you have say 300 online in your alliance, you say, hey we got an op going, if you wanna join in ask for gang yadda yadda. So the gang ends up being 200 strong, not because the force is rubbish and needs the numbers to win, but because they wanna join in and play EvE. Why would CCP want to nerf the ammount of people that want to get involved?
The crablitt	Posted - 2007.04.16 10:23:00 - [30] Originally by: Spaced Skunk Edited by: Spaced Skunk on 16/04/2007 10:09:35 I never got the blob concept. If you have say 300 online in your alliance, you say, hey we got an op going, if you wanna join in ask for gang yadda yadda. So the gang ends up being 200 strong, not because the force is rubbish and needs the numbers to win, but because they wanna join in and play EvE. Why would CCP want to nerf the ammount of people that want to get involved? If it is indeed an organised alliance, the details would have been placed into an alliance mail, thus many people attend knowing about it a few days before. So your statement it very true imo, and obviously relevant only if the Titans Doomsday Module was infact designed to reduce large fleets to the only ships that seen to count these days; Capital ships. Titans will ruin EvE and territorial warfare in the long run.

R3ign	Posted - 2007.04.16 10:39:00 - [31] Ppl who say titans in their current form should stay in game have obviously never fight under titan presence. If a titan is around all you can do is go to pos or dock and log off. Thats why they are ruining the game.
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.04.16 11:04:00 - [32] Originally by: goodby4u BOB's second titan fought back...Plus there were 2 other titans that died and one that got close to being built but the pos got brought down. FFS, those are NOT combat situations. Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Radio is essential for Amarr, to call the much needed backup...
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2007.04.16 11:18:00 - [33] Titan - 120 Billion isk plus real weeks of peoples lives to construct. Also keeping it a secret while being built. I dont know if anyone here has that kind of money, but 120 Billion isk is no laughing figure. It is one that is fairly hard to attain even for an alliance. The thing I like about eve is the surprise. You get a fleet together, you see a recon in their fleet who opens a cyno, the enemy fleet warps out, and the next thing you realize your all dead. Overpowered compared to the pricetag and manhours? No not really..Overpowered compared to everything else? Possibly. But let me say this..if the titan lost its DD, CCP's hope for them being built would crash and people who have built them would complain. A titan without its DD is useless...aside from the jumping people in and out, which is not worth the 120bil isk and more to maintain. ---------------- Freedom Of Speech Band of Brothers T-shirt
ZOMGchampion	Posted - 2007.04.16 11:26:00 - [34] Originally by: Angus McLean Titan - 120 Billion isk plus real weeks of peoples lives to construct. Also keeping it a secret while being built. I dont know if anyone here has that kind of money, but 120 Billion isk is no laughing figure. It is one that is fairly hard to attain even for an alliance. The thing I like about eve is the surprise. You get a fleet together, you see a recon in their fleet who opens a cyno, the enemy fleet warps out, and the next thing you realize your all dead. Overpowered compared to the pricetag and manhours? No not really..Overpowered compared to everything else? Possibly. But let me say this..if the titan lost its DD, CCP's hope for them being built would crash and people who have built them would complain. A titan without its DD is useless...aside from the jumping people in and out, which is not worth the 120bil isk and more to maintain. See thats the problem, only the rich and powerful alliances can afford them, thus the medium-core gamer, playing EvE say around 2-4 hours a day cant compete. Doesnt anyone fail to see the big picture when a large alliance owns say 5 titans?
Glarion Garnier Solar Wind	Posted - 2007.04.16 11:32:00 - [35] Originally by: Jayne Tamm i understand that its very expensive and i agree it shud be really powerful!!! but what im tryin to say is that the ship is fine..its the doomsady weapon that isnt. i posted acouple ideas about possible fixes a few weeks ago.... but basically 2 things that i thought that cud be changed to make it more balanced are as follows; 1) get rid of the whole dd firing through cyno!! thats just a ridiculous idea!! that makes the titan able to to destroy fleets without it putting itself in any danger!! 2) give the dd a charge up time! say once its activated....give it a period of say a minute or two to charge up. this i feel will just make the whole fight against a titan that little bit more interesting and even. I Agree with the part that Titans should not be able to DD thru a cyno. Its like giving a player a cheat code to the game. I can only imagine once BOB has their 10 Titan fleet what will happen then. . One word Ownage.
Gawain Hill	Posted - 2007.04.16 11:38:00 - [36] Hey i just worked out a way to make titans useless STOP FLYING AROUND IN 100 MAN FLEETS just think if you flew around in gangs of 20 and 30 and just did raids and did small fast hits on the enemy in thier own territory and supprise attacks people wouldn't bother building a titan but what's easier to do raise a 150 man fleet to counter a 100 man fleet or have two people who can move a titan around and take out the whole fleet? (ofcause you need a few people who can fly titans) just think no more big fleets no more big titans wow how strange is that?
Kramer Verone Amarr	Posted - 2007.04.16 11:44:00 - [37] REMOVE OFFICER SMARTBOMBS and then cap ships will be forced to require their support to survive, thus making support useful.
Amitabh Bachchan	Posted - 2007.04.16 11:48:00 - [38] Edited by: Amitabh Bachchan on 16/04/2007 11:45:21 Originally by: Jayne Tamm 1) get rid of the whole dd firing through cyno!! thats just a ridiculous idea!! that makes the titan able to to destroy fleets without it putting itself in any danger!! 2) give the dd a charge up time! say once its activated....give it a period of say a minute or two to charge up. this i feel will just make the whole fight against a titan that little bit more interesting and even. 1) = Excellent Idea. Currently, the Titan pilots with the highist killmails are the ones who show up mano a mano and let off a fart. The Titan pilots who are dead are the ones who hide in pos's and cyno blasts, since it forces people to scheme against them as they are never to be seen outside of a pos. 2) = Obsolete the use of a titan. But then again - add in a 2 min charge and give it 15x the damage, so it can hurt seiged capitals. Then again, perhaps not.
Caldari Online	Posted - 2007.04.16 11:52:00 - [39] Originally by: Gawain Hill Hey i just worked out a way to make titans useless STOP FLYING AROUND IN 100 MAN FLEETS just think if you flew around in gangs of 20 and 30 and just did raids and did small fast hits on the enemy in thier own territory and supprise attacks people wouldn't bother building a titan but what's easier to do raise a 150 man fleet to counter a 100 man fleet or have two people who can move a titan around and take out the whole fleet? (ofcause you need a few people who can fly titans) just think no more big fleets no more big titans wow how strange is that? how do you propsoe taking over a region or a station or killing a pos with a 20-30 man gang
Lucifer Fellblade Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.04.16 11:57:00 - [40] Originally by: Caldari Online Originally by: Gawain Hill Hey i just worked out a way to make titans useless STOP FLYING AROUND IN 100 MAN FLEETS just think if you flew around in gangs of 20 and 30 and just did raids and did small fast hits on the enemy in thier own territory and supprise attacks people wouldn't bother building a titan but what's easier to do raise a 150 man fleet to counter a 100 man fleet or have two people who can move a titan around and take out the whole fleet? (ofcause you need a few people who can fly titans) just think no more big fleets no more big titans wow how strange is that? how do you propsoe taking over a region or a station or killing a pos with a 20-30 man gang Exactly, there isn't a way. I'd rather see the mechanic for sovreignity change, not requiring these massive fleets, and titans could stay the same. ------

Kaptein Trefot	Posted - 2007.04.16 12:00:00 - [41] It was a huge mistake to implement Titans without also implementing some viable means to kill it in open combat. A ship that big and expensive should be able to do a ****laod of damage but it shouldn’t be impossible to kill. Implement means to kill it - maybe some big Tintan killing ships that has no other use than killing titans as in it cant to damage to anything but Titans.
Spaced Skunk D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.04.16 12:01:00 - [42] Originally by: Amitabh Bachchan Edited by: Amitabh Bachchan on 16/04/2007 11:45:21 Originally by: Jayne Tamm 1) get rid of the whole dd firing through cyno!! thats just a ridiculous idea!! that makes the titan able to to destroy fleets without it putting itself in any danger!! 2) give the dd a charge up time! say once its activated....give it a period of say a minute or two to charge up. this i feel will just make the whole fight against a titan that little bit more interesting and even. 1) = Excellent Idea. Currently, the Titan pilots with the highist killmails are the ones who show up mano a mano and let off a fart. The Titan pilots who are dead are the ones who hide in pos's and cyno blasts, since it forces people to scheme against them as they are never to be seen outside of a pos. 2) = Obsolete the use of a titan. But then again - add in a 2 min charge and give it 15x the damage, so it can hurt seiged capitals. Then again, perhaps not. Changing the DD from a titan into an active damage mod for its guns/missiles is a great idea. <3.
Amitabh Bachchan	Posted - 2007.04.16 12:01:00 - [43] Originally by: Kaptein Trefot It was a huge mistake to implement Titans without also implementing some viable means to kill it in open combat. A ship that big and expensive should be able to do a ****laod of damage but it shouldnÆt be impossible to kill. Implement means to kill it - maybe some big Tintan killing ships that has no other use than killing titans as in it cant to damage to anything but Titans. Already exists. Called Spies
Hank Showbo Neyi Industries	Posted - 2007.04.16 12:05:00 - [44] Originally by: Amitabh Bachchan Originally by: Kaptein Trefot It was a huge mistake to implement Titans without also implementing some viable means to kill it in open combat. A ship that big and expensive should be able to do a ****laod of damage but it shouldnÆt be impossible to kill. Implement means to kill it - maybe some big Tintan killing ships that has no other use than killing titans as in it cant to damage to anything but Titans. Already exists. Called Spies and meta-gaming.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.16 12:54:00 - [45] Edited by: Depp Knight on 16/04/2007 12:51:45 My 2 cents. # DD cycle time should be longer. # DD through a cyno should be nerfed or removed totally eg DD strength through a cyno will decrease the DD's power by a large margin, reducing its strength to only kill cruisers or smaller. # When the DD is activated it should prevent the Titan from jumping out for a short period of time. ie 10 mins. Apart from that, the titan is fine just only slightly overpowered.
Kamikaaazi Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.04.16 12:59:00 - [46] nerf the DD but add other options against blobbing. Limit chars less than 1 year to high sec. Chars less than 2 years to low sec. If there are 100 ppl in system start kicking ppl with less skillpoints so in the end only top100 can be in the same system. Blob of 400 t1 crapship pilots shouldnt kill (crash the server) 100 man high end t2 fitted fleet. yarr
Aterna	Posted - 2007.04.16 13:01:00 - [47] You can put a pos into reinforced with 20-30 people. That isn't a valid argument. The problem comes into play when you try to kill the POS, and your 20-30 man capital fleet faces down an anti-capital fleet. Sovereignty does need changing, to reduce dependency on large numbers of people to ensure victory or to at least have a fighting chance. The DD itself is fine, the problem I see is this: I was Doomsday'd by Tom Mccash of Dusk and Dawn a few weeks ago. They set up bait for us: A hostile battleship was dangled at the gate, we began shooting it. during the chaos of the small engagement, a cyno was lit up. I didn't notice in time, and Tom Mccash jumped into the system. He immediately set off the doomsday. This wasn't some huge fleet battle, it was skewed in our favor quite a bit, and I think the max number of ships was below 10, both sides included. Before I could even warp away (I was in an interceptor, check the griefwatch killboards), The lagbomb hit, and I was in my pod when the dust settled. I checked local, and the Titan pilot was gone shortly after I had my pod at a safespot. He jumped in, DD'd us, and jumped out inside of 5 minutes, possibly 3. Increase the amount of cap used to set off a DD. Make it percentage based, so that a Titan pilot could not use capacitor capacity rigs to push his max cap above the number needed to fire and cyno immediately after. At the very least, with the ship's recharge rate, it should take a few minutes to be able to escape the system. The ship may also cost a lot, but firing the Doomsday does not cost a lot. If anything, it costs so little that using it to kill a single T2 fitted battleship means you come out ahead if you are able to scoop the loot, and if not, you've cost them 50 mil in insurance, and you've only lost 20 mil worth of fuel. Jump portaling, does cost a lot of isk. Fuel cost is calculated by the mass of the ship, so jump portaling around a fleet of battleships and support is very costly, but very worth it. Having been on the receiving end of a DD, having had the pleasure of doing a titan-assisted freighter op, I'd say the ships are a huge asset to any fleet. But the mechanics behind 0.0 warfare need to change, in order for people to stop forming 400 man gangs. Or perhaps mindsets need to change, and people should split their gangs up, feint a mass attack at one system, jump in a token array of capitals and make a show of shooting some stuff, while their real fleet puts POS into reinforced across an entire system. - - - WTB new sig, evemail me please.
ZOMGchampion	Posted - 2007.04.16 13:18:00 - [48] Originally by: Kamikaaazi nerf the DD but add other options against blobbing. Limit chars less than 1 year to high sec. Chars less than 2 years to low sec. If there are 100 ppl in system start kicking ppl with less skillpoints so in the end only top100 can be in the same system. Blob of 400 t1 crapship pilots shouldnt kill (crash the server) 100 man high end t2 fitted fleet. Also no pre-WoW players allowed No but seriously, your idea is.......
kliop	Posted - 2007.04.16 13:19:00 - [49] how about making the dd's different...not doing damage but still helping a lot the fleet like for example the caldari will break lock of everything for 3-5 mins...or somehow distract the sensors and thus reducing locking range etc... the minmatar will make them unable to move...or at greatly reduced speeds... or not able to warp and so on... how long each effect will last is to be decided... that way the titan will NEED the support fleet to finish of the oponents it wont be as strong as now but still it will be very usefull i think
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.04.16 13:26:00 - [50] Originally by: Ifni What's the real issue here? Broken game mechanics, or disappointment at your own performance. If the loss of 2 ships sends you back to Empire, why are you taking part in Alliance level combat? The generally touted phrase is "if you can't afford to lose it, don't fly it." That applies to Titans too. 120b++ to buy the bpo's and build, and then there's the running costs. It's not cheap to fire the jump portal or doomsday. It sucks, for you, that you died. But really, Titans are reasonably fine as they are. Just remember that not even a tenth of the player base has seen one yet. I've had a few deaths to them, I cant say I mind as you can deal with 1 titan reasonably easy if you setup right and dont act like a retard... the only thing that needs looking at imo is the potential cap regen of a titan... if its an anti blob weapon then dont force those trying to kill it to pull out the largest nos/neut battleship blob eves seen... Its damn cool to see a titan though. If it becomes killable they will be a fine edition to eve in the long run. Originally by: Dr Cupid Let me tell you all that I'm really enjoying eve-beta, and can't wait for the real game to come out!

Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.16 13:32:00 - [51] Originally by: kliop how about making the dd's different...not doing damage but still helping a lot the fleet like for example the caldari will break lock of everything for 3-5 mins...or somehow distract the sensors and thus reducing locking range etc... the minmatar will make them unable to move...or at greatly reduced speeds... or not able to warp and so on... how long each effect will last is to be decided... that way the titan will NEED the support fleet to finish of the oponents it wont be as strong as now but still it will be very usefull i think Intresting. So a Amarr Titan would fire off a NOS bomb, emptying their cap. A Caldari one would ECM bomb the lot of them, breaking all their locks. A Gallente one would probebly dampen them down for a short period of time, and the Minmatar one would just target paint them all...... -- Billion Isk Mission
zwerg mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.04.16 13:35:00 - [52] sry but stfu?! ... they call me "the lil one" :(
Galen Silas Gallente Lucky Hydra Corp	Posted - 2007.04.16 13:40:00 - [53] I can agree with the op in a way, it seems funny that ccp increased the hp of all the ships in the game to make fights last longer but then again they increase the damage of DD devices. Even though your not likely to run into a titan everyday but still. General fights do last a bit longer, but the odds are slightly still the same. DD is a bit overpowered but it does make sense to have them in the game not only to make people realize the destructiveness of a Titan, but to also show who took the time to train for them, For the price it's definately fair. Not only this but if you think about it, it kinda evens it out. You know there is only those few titans out there. Plus it shows other people even those who don't play how in depth eve gets with its material, and what you have to do to get it. I am hoping they make ships even bigger than the Titan. Like a mobile station able to jump out through a cyno and everything lol
kliop	Posted - 2007.04.16 13:42:00 - [54] Edited by: kliop on 16/04/2007 13:38:38 Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: kliop how about making the dd's different...not doing damage but still helping a lot the fleet like for example the caldari will break lock of everything for 3-5 mins...or somehow distract the sensors and thus reducing locking range etc... the minmatar will make them unable to move...or at greatly reduced speeds... or not able to warp and so on... how long each effect will last is to be decided... that way the titan will NEED the support fleet to finish of the oponents it wont be as strong as now but still it will be very usefull i think Intresting. So a Amarr Titan would fire off a NOS bomb, emptying their cap. A Caldari one would ECM bomb the lot of them, breaking all their locks. A Gallente one would probebly dampen them down for a short period of time, and the Minmatar one would just target paint them all...... see that is y i said about the minamatar...the rest can do what their race thing is...but the minmatar could web them...although u could make it so that all ships will get a signature of 2000.. but i like the idea about nos-ammar, ecm for a min or so cald, dampening for gallente again for short time ...and minmatar well i prefer the scramlling+web...by affecting hyperspace:P cause otherwise mataris will say it aint fair:P Edit ammar is better with a neutralizing dd^^
kliop	Posted - 2007.04.16 13:45:00 - [55] or amarr could have a dd that makes the mass of all ships affected twice or reduced teh agility or something? or maybe matar could do that:)
Trent Jager Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.04.16 13:46:00 - [56] There should be a 10-20min countdown after the titan has set off its ddd before it can active its jump drive. IÆve witnessed the d2 titan cynoing in, instantly setting off its ddd and jumping back out strait after it was finished. Although we took minimal losses and did complete the task we set out to accomplish. I find it a bit lame that there was no element of risk involved in this attack.
Morreia The Celestial Element	Posted - 2007.04.16 13:47:00 - [57] Originally by: Kamikaaazi nerf the DD but add other options against blobbing. Limit chars less than 1 year to high sec. Chars less than 2 years to low sec. If there are 100 ppl in system start kicking ppl with less skillpoints so in the end only top100 can be in the same system. Blob of 400 t1 crapship pilots shouldnt kill (crash the server) 100 man high end t2 fitted fleet. Somebody please kill this guy and help to further the human race by removing him for the gene pool.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.04.16 13:49:00 - [58] Originally by: Phelan Lore Originally by: goodby4u The DD weapon was implamented to decrease blobs...I think its fair to have a ship that costs 100bil+be very...very...powerfull. Clearly it has worked. People don't blob any more. If anything the existance of titans and the process of building them encourages blobbing. It doesnt very well no,but its an attempt. And the last part is quite interesting,their made to kill blobs but the only thing to kill it is a blob... __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
Johnny ReeRee The ReeRee Brigade	Posted - 2007.04.16 13:51:00 - [59] Originally by: R3ign Ppl who say titans in their current form should stay in game have obviously never fight under titan presence. If a titan is around all you can do is go to pos or dock and log off. Thats why they are ruining the game. Fly a dreadnought or a carrier? 120+ billion isk for a titan = what? 50 dreadnoughts? Run out a fleet of 50 dreadnoughts and fight the titan. Don't have 50 capitals to fight it? Too bad, so sad. If you don't make the same level of investment, you should expect to have a few problems.
Bein Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.04.16 13:57:00 - [60] Doomsdays are not anti-blob weapons. While the effects to the group hit by a doomsday are greater along with the group's size (as in, the bigger the group, the more ships lost), the effects to the individual hit by a doomsday are the exact same no matter what size the group is. A doomsday could be considered anti-blob only if the effects to the individual became decreased as gangs became smaller. But either way, a weapon that can destroy a potentially limitless number of ships without having to achieve lock, isn't affected by optimal range, falloff or tracking, doesn't expose the pilot to danger, and with an effective range greater than or equal to the range of any of its targets (~250km) is, by principle alone, overpowered. That is the bottom line.

TitusFlamininus Ars ex Discordia	Posted - 2007.04.16 14:05:00 - [61] Edited by: TitusFlamininus on 16/04/2007 14:02:02 Titans are simply sick because they are indistructable besides of meta-gaming. A Titan with best named Officer capacitor rechargers has a Cap-recharge time of less than 20s! This is beyond sickening. Titans are indistructable due to this cap recharge rate. They can cyno in, let off a big stinker and cyno out within mere seconds. Their DD will destroy any ship capable of holding a titan in place, and any nos-attempts are futile with such an insane recharge rate. Also add the fact that they make anything smaller than a BS useless due to insane amounts of lags. Soon, very soon, dual DD blasts will be a fact and any realistic BS fit can't survive that. So as a summary one can say that Titans have managed to do the following: Increase blobbing, ie. when fighting, it better be worth it! Make non capital support obsolete In the near future make any non-capital ship tactically useless Good going CCP with your Capitals-Online game
Amitabh Bachchan	Posted - 2007.04.16 14:51:00 - [62] Titans are simply sick because they are indistructable besides of meta-gaming. A Titan with best named Officer capacitor rechargers has a Cap-recharge time of less than 20s! This is beyond sickening. Such a setup costs even more than a Titan in the first place! A Titan with all best officer cap rechargers and relays hits the 200bil mark! But if someone had pumped out that much isk on the "I-Win" button, then who is to say there is anything wrong with it? 200bil can buy you 100 dreads, rendering such a Titan obsolete.
Belenkas Amarr	Posted - 2007.04.16 15:11:00 - [63] Edited by: Belenkas on 16/04/2007 15:11:32 IMHO just making the DD a rarer thing to see would fix the problem of unknown future with 10 titans on the field. 1. Remove this (dumbest idea ever I would say) remote-cyno-DD. It ruins the whole point of PvP - you don't have to PvP at all when you are sitting inside POS and clicking the I Win button. 2. Make it somewhat dangerous and the last plea of a Titan to fire his DoomsDay weapon. They have 6+ capital weapon mount points after all - give more PG, give better damage/tracking bonuses so it fires much better than any dread or whatever, make Titans use the weapons as main power. To fire DDD you would need to enter a 'siege' stage. Say 2 minutes to siege up and power up the DDD, then the blast happens wiping out entire t2(fitted) BS fleets, even hurting other capitals, however it costs 100% capacitor and the siege mode remains, and should you want to jump out now, you need to wait say 5 minutes to exit siege mode and whatever time to regenerate the cap to 70%(obviously cap recharges to that level much faster than 5 minutes). After all, it is named DoomsDay Device, so make it being used only when you are totally doomed. But to even out the danger of firing a DDD, add the bonus to firing it - destroys absolutely all, whatever fitted non-capitals, hurts capitals badly, or maybe even disable(unable to lock due to massive EM wave that came with the DDD damage) for 5 minutes(equal to unsiege time). The danger then for the Titan pilot is to get another 50 dread fleet jump on it, what would pretty much mean the end of the ship, unless it has good support. So in general what I want to say, this Titan ship and Doomsday weapon is an epic weapon that should only be used in epic battles. Otherwise, Titans should be used as superior to dreadnought weaponry platform(that should easily solo out 2 and more dreads on its own), brought to battle to fight. And only, ONLY when in big trouble, fire the DDD and hope to exit the field without getting lotsa more ships jump on you and having current capitals on field disabled for the time being. EDIT: when entering siege mode, no message should appear on field, allowing everyone to escape before it fires the DDD.
Hank Showbo Neyi Industries	Posted - 2007.04.16 17:01:00 - [64] Originally by: TitusFlamininus Edited by: TitusFlamininus on 16/04/2007 14:02:02 Titans are simply sick because they are indistructable besides of meta-gaming. A Titan with best named Officer capacitor rechargers has a Cap-recharge time of less than 20s! This is beyond sickening. Titans are indistructable due to this cap recharge rate. They can cyno in, let off a big stinker and cyno out within mere seconds. Their DD will destroy any ship capable of holding a titan in place, and any nos-attempts are futile with such an insane recharge rate. Also add the fact that they make anything smaller than a BS useless due to insane amounts of lags. Soon, very soon, dual DD blasts will be a fact and any realistic BS fit can't survive that. So as a summary one can say that Titans have managed to do the following: Increase blobbing, ie. when fighting, it better be worth it! Make non capital support obsolete In the near future make any non-capital ship tactically useless Good going CCP with your Capitals-Online game Thats a pretty sick actually...what cap rechargers/mods are we talking about?
Taipan Gedscho Muzzletov Gewaltski Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.16 17:09:00 - [65] i dont get it... people wanted bigger smartbombs. people got bigger smartbombs. why isnt everybody happy? Only you can save mmorpgs - Stop crying for nerfs today!
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.04.16 17:09:00 - [66] i vote nay
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2007.04.16 17:34:00 - [67] Originally by: ZOMGchampion Originally by: Angus McLean Titan - 120 Billion isk plus real weeks of peoples lives to construct. Also keeping it a secret while being built. I dont know if anyone here has that kind of money, but 120 Billion isk is no laughing figure. It is one that is fairly hard to attain even for an alliance. The thing I like about eve is the surprise. You get a fleet together, you see a recon in their fleet who opens a cyno, the enemy fleet warps out, and the next thing you realize your all dead. Overpowered compared to the pricetag and manhours? No not really..Overpowered compared to everything else? Possibly. But let me say this..if the titan lost its DD, CCP's hope for them being built would crash and people who have built them would complain. A titan without its DD is useless...aside from the jumping people in and out, which is not worth the 120bil isk and more to maintain. See thats the problem, only the rich and powerful alliances can afford them, thus the medium-core gamer, playing EvE say around 2-4 hours a day cant compete. Doesnt anyone fail to see the big picture when a large alliance owns say 5 titans? 2 things to note. 1: EvE is about friendships, we should know that and most do know that. If you argue against it the ntake alook around, everything is based on Commands, corporations alliances. 2: You cant compete with..? No one is going to DD you if your alone NPC'ing, and if your out in 0.0 expect to get camped/blobbed/DD'd anyways. So the casual gamer never should find himself in that kind of situation unless he's in enemy territory or hes attacking a titan he found.. ---------------- Freedom Of Speech Band of Brothers T-shirt
korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.04.16 17:38:00 - [68] Edited by: korrey on 16/04/2007 17:35:35 Originally by: TitusFlamininus Edited by: TitusFlamininus on 16/04/2007 14:02:02 Titans are simply sick because they are indistructable besides of meta-gaming. A Titan with best named Officer capacitor rechargers has a Cap-recharge time of less than 20s! This is beyond sickening. Titans are indistructable due to this cap recharge rate. They can cyno in, let off a big stinker and cyno out within mere seconds. Their DD will destroy any ship capable of holding a titan in place, and any nos-attempts are futile with such an insane recharge rate. Also add the fact that they make anything smaller than a BS useless due to insane amounts of lags. Soon, very soon, dual DD blasts will be a fact and any realistic BS fit can't survive that. So as a summary one can say that Titans have managed to do the following: Increase blobbing, ie. when fighting, it better be worth it! Make non capital support obsolete In the near future make any non-capital ship tactically useless Good going CCP with your Capitals-Online game Haha 20 second cap recharge time on a titan...I would like someone to show me these STACKED figures. Unless of course you forgot to add in your stacking penalty on your mods. And even if it was possible to get a Titan to cap recharge in 20 seconds...what does it matter lol. You guys are all arguing uselessly. If you fit it to recharge in 20 sec then you probably used all your slots..meaning? No one would do it and its pointless. I can get a ferox to field a Mega Pulse Laser II...does this mean im amazing and should be nerfed? Or does this mean no one gives a flip? I can get a zealot to fly 25km/s, does this mean it should be nerfed, or does this mean I was bored and came up with a completely useless setup that will help me nil in a combat engagement?... my word people.. ----------- 24.01.06 Small patch that addresses some minor balancing issues 1) All minmatar pilots have been deleted
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2007.04.16 17:41:00 - [69] Final word of note... x~ Dreads + Support fleet = Dead titan. ---------------- Freedom Of Speech Band of Brothers T-shirt
Liang Nuren Red 42 CORE.	Posted - 2007.04.16 18:29:00 - [70] Word of note: It doesn't matter how big your blob is if you want to kill the Titan. You'll likely never see the Titan. This is what you'll see (and I've seen this a few times): 2 blobs are clashing Titan pilot enters system Half of each blob dies Titan pilot leaves system Total elapsed time: 1-2 minutes tops. Ok, so lets bring 100 dreads and 500 support staff to kill a single Titan. Titan remote DDD, 450 of your support staff is dead, and 1 minute later, the Titan disappears from local. Yay. Hmmmmmm... More interestingly: 1 mom vs 50-100 blob of BS. All the mom's fighters die. 100+ points of scram on the mom (silly FC.. heh heh heh.) Mom jumps out. Simply put: Complete EW immunity needs to go away, and remote DDD should go away. As it stands, 100,000 people in officer fitted battleships are likely to either A) never see the Titan/MOM or B) get Remote DDD'd and watch the Titan pilot leave local 1 minute later. Liang

Dregann Amarr Trading Company	Posted - 2007.04.16 18:46:00 - [71] Titan are going to bring the end of eve tbh
Lars Intarestum	Posted - 2007.04.16 19:13:00 - [72] Edited by: Lars Intarestum on 16/04/2007 19:09:59 I'm just a noob, but I noticed "1 Titan = 50 Dreads"... Has there ever been a 50 Dread fleet? I can imagine getting that many highly skilled pilots in one place at one time and managing to pin down a titan so that you could repeatedly bounce the aforementioned Dreads long enough for their guns to tear the titan down to be rather difficult... 'Cause, bubbles are pretty useless since the Titan's going to kill them with smartbombs. Fighters are pretty useless with those same smartbombs. Anything smaller than a BS is going to go pop from the DD. The BSes would add some damage, I guess, but then again, the Titan will have its own support fleet. So, I'm guessing in order to take down a Titan, you'll need a Titan and X Dreads, foreknowledge of where the Titan will be, perfect timing and fairly horrible piloting on the part of the Titan's pilot. Ummm... That doesn't seem very easy at all, even given equal resources spent.
VanNostrum	Posted - 2007.04.16 19:19:00 - [73] I dunno what the fuss about DD is, i survived all the DDs i just wasn't there
ispyozs	Posted - 2007.04.16 19:38:00 - [74] there is nothing wrong with the ships or the lag in eve. i want roleplay in the station.cus thats what is cool "walking on stations"
Badhands Gallente Gottland Production Transport Mines	Posted - 2007.04.16 19:50:00 - [75] The ONLY problem with titans is that they never have to be vulnerable to use their DD. I am not against 100% ewar immunity. I am not against their cap recharge rate. I am not against anything except for (you guessed it) cyno DD.
Vishnej Demonic Retribution Pure.	Posted - 2007.04.16 20:22:00 - [76] Equating "well, he worked for it - so it must be fair" with a good effect on gameplay is fallacious. For example: In 2009, CCP will begin selling a 1-system CONCORD task force that will follow your standings for 3.5 trillion isk. This makes PvP in that system impossible, and grant you permanent ownership. "It's fair, because it's so expensive." Not really. Fair is a term used in many different contexts - and the point is that such a task force would have a negative effect on the game. Currently titans are too powerful, and control too much of the battle for too little vulnerability. They actively discourage actually engaging, not blobs. The titan-owning side gets to blob all they want, and their blob has drastically increased mobility due to the jump bridge.
Hardy Evar	Posted - 2007.04.16 20:25:00 - [77] to the peeps saying a titan = 50 dreads or enough bss to pop a titan and therefore its balanced then basically ure missing the point. Eve is balanced so that a sinlge pilot with a 100mil ship should never be equal in any way shape or form to 100 pilots with a 1mil ship. Granted the titan isnt as powerful as 70 odd dreads but it is imo overpowered as no single pilot should be soo effective - its takes away from what makes eve combat which is the neccesary teamwork to get a campaign done. Secondly eve alliance warfare should be about enjoyable combat. Fighting against an alliance with a titan is extrememly boring. In order to actually kill one youd need the titan pilot to make a mistake essentially and therefore actually fighting one is pretty pointless - you cant sit about all day with enough cap ships to actually pop it and enough dictors to keep it held down while its smartboming your interdiction spheres.No competent titans pilot should ever die (atleat not while hes online anyway aggro timers is a different thing). It discourages fleet combat which imo is a bad thing and the cost of using the DDD is far too low. It currently costs a couple of hundred mil isk ish (i think?) and large alliances happily use it to pop any small gang (seen it fired at gangs of less that 20peeps before). DDD activation should cost atleast a couple of bil isk and it should be for RARE occasions where u are completely outnubmered and its absolutely neccesary to use it. It should not be able to activate it remotely titan should not be able to jump into a system fire dd are escape before any tackler has a chance to put probes down (think titan + mom jump in .. titan fires ddd .. mom transfers cap to titan .. titan jumps out a few secs after ddd goes off. ZERO risk to titan) on the other foot bs should not be able to tank a ddd imo
Vishnej Demonic Retribution Pure.	Posted - 2007.04.16 20:26:00 - [78] Originally by: Gawain Hill Hey i just worked out a way to make titans useless STOP FLYING AROUND IN 100 MAN FLEETS just think if you flew around in gangs of 20 and 30 and just did raids and did small fast hits on the enemy in thier own territory and supprise attacks people wouldn't bother building a titan but what's easier to do raise a 150 man fleet to counter a 100 man fleet or have two people who can move a titan around and take out the whole fleet? (ofcause you need a few people who can fly titans) just think no more big fleets no more big titans wow how strange is that? And against POS targets?
Wiktorja Caldari W.A.R.S.	Posted - 2007.04.16 20:28:00 - [79] If Titans were CCP's way to deal with blobs, wouldn't it be safe to say that by the time they were wide spread enough to do that task, there wouldn't be any blobs of anything but Titans anyways? That's probably an extreme statement but might not be too far from the truth.
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.04.16 20:47:00 - [80] Originally by: ispyozs there is nothing wrong with the ships or the lag in eve. i want roleplay in the station.cus thats what is cool "walking on stations" You too ? --- Cheap paint ftw

Shebee Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.04.16 20:48:00 - [81] Your just jealous, you wouldnt be whining if youd own a titan yourself. and killing noobs.
JenDen Caldari LFS Corp	Posted - 2007.04.16 21:15:00 - [82] Originally by: Angus McLean Final word of note... x~ Dreads + Support fleet = Dead titan. Heh, you're missing something this topic is all about. Not even gang of dreads can do what titan can - warp in, insta-kill most of your "support fleet" and warp out safely.
Dracu1a Gallente Warrior Nation United	Posted - 2007.04.16 21:26:00 - [83] Some good points here. Some bad ones. Heres what I say: Lots of people dont like cyno-dd. In its current state I dont either. But I think (someone mentioned it in the last page) that cyno-dd's should remain, BUT the damage should be vastly reduced allowing it only to really affect t1 cruisers and below, while still damaging some of the higher end ships. The cost to do cyno-dd should also be increased a ton. They still COULD have a place, but in their current state, no plz change. If the titan decides to use its DD on an enemy fleet that is currently pounding him, he should be able to use it for MAX damage, but also have his cap gimped significantly. This would make him havea VERY viable last stand (possibly even increase DD damage when used in this instance) but still be hurting from its cap reduction (aka. not able to immediately jump out) There should be special capital sized turrets that can fire relatively quick and have good tracking/range so it can still be of use during battle, causing severe dmg to battleship sized ships. Think of it somewhat as modified dread weapons. I think they should also have a much higher multiplier for gang mods. Meaning if it decides to play the support role (Warefare links in highslots instead of guns) the support it throws out should be MUCH greater than those of Command Ships. Thoughts?
Dimitri Forgroth The Bolt	Posted - 2007.04.16 21:43:00 - [84] Originally by: korrey Haha 20 second cap recharge time on a titan...I would like someone to show me these STACKED figures. Unless of course you forgot to add in your stacking penalty on your mods. And even if it was possible to get a Titan to cap recharge in 20 seconds...what does it matter lol. You guys are all arguing uselessly. If you fit it to recharge in 20 sec then you probably used all your slots..meaning? No one would do it and its pointless. 1) Cap recharge is not stacked. 2) A titan adds very little to te "front-line" apart from maybe a bit of awe. With a cap recharge setup it can cyno into a system, fire the DD, and be out within a minute NO RISK.
Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.04.16 21:47:00 - [85] Originally by: korrey Haha 20 second cap recharge time on a titan...I would like someone to show me these STACKED figures. Unless of course you forgot to add in your stacking penalty on your mods. And even if it was possible to get a Titan to cap recharge in 20 seconds...what does it matter lol. You guys are all arguing uselessly. Are you an idiot? There is no stacking penalty on cap recharge modules. Quote: If you fit it to recharge in 20 sec then you probably used all your slots..meaning? No one would do it and its pointless. I can get a ferox to field a Mega Pulse Laser II...does this mean im amazing and should be nerfed? Or does this mean no one gives a flip? What good is a ferox with a mega pulse on it? The titan with the all cap recharge mods can never be killed and can kill an entire support fleet once an hour. Your mega pulse ferox can do what? Quote: I can get a zealot to fly 25km/s, does this mean it should be nerfed, or does this mean I was bored and came up with a completely useless setup that will help me nil in a combat engagement?... my word people.. The 25km/sec zealot cant actually reach that speed without prepositioned logistics ships to cap boost it, and last I checked it cant kill a fleet of BS every hour.
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2007.04.16 22:40:00 - [86] well this argument has some point in my eyes. my opinion is that ccps move to implement capital class vessels for pos destruction, motherships and carriers for support and titans for overwhelming strategic and psychological power will shift the current terretorial warfare into one position where only the wealthiest ppl will be able to participate in this, as dreadnaughts and motherships and titans will become a standard in such engagements without room for the comon pilot with his cruiser. also this means that small alliances are dead from this stage on. isk play a big role in eve. and isk inflation is a big problem also. ccp brought in stuff which requires huge amouts of isk and therefore forces ppl to heat the inflation by isk farming (WoW grind anyone ?). ofc one must say that ccp created a huge isk sink aswell since loosing dreadnaughts is an inevitable part of alliance warfare. the saddest point is that the small and average man who fights in cruisers and battleships in average gangs ranging from 5 to 20 man will not have any significant impact on the outcome of alliance warfare as the only thing which counts atm is isk (for dreads, pos and stuff) and skillpoints of veteran players (which enables the whole madness). the rest of eve got shafted. also one argument is eve's playability. theres no way eve can support this intended way of gaming due to performance issues aka lag, freezeups, node deaths etc. imo pos warfare should be overhauled. territory shouldnt be gained by simple capture the flag stuff (pos siege). territory should be gained by having the upper hand in a region like in the old days when ppl actually had to be in place for claiming space and not just jumpcloning to their dreads and roll on the battlefield within a timeframe dictated by pos fuel calculation. influence needs to be enforced by manpower in forms of patrols, roaming gangs and dedicated players who enjoy the battle. and not by anchoring 20 pos with a load of fuel in em so everything is fine. player must live and work in 0.0 to be able to claim their space. not just clonejumping between empire and 0.0 for getting supplies while the pos' hold the enemy in place for at least 3 days so u have sufficinet time to prepare and insure u never get any serious problems. i say reduce the pos spamming. make pos unimportant to soverenity. and implement a system of closing down markets (blockade) or deactivate stations and/or gates by player interaction. make it possible for players to aquire limited gate control by strategic actions vs. key instalations within enemy terretory or simply hack gates with deployable structures which can be destroyed by smaller taskforces. make it possible to implemtent lone pos structures which interefere with enemy pos so those are a tactical target in terms of upholding ones industrial structures by killing the interferring enemy pos. make pos spamm limits so single pos have more importance then spamming 20 at a time. make eve a game for everyone and not just for those who fly the big ships. encourage novice players to venture into 0.0 instead sucking roids in empire knowing that those who joined in 2003 rule 0.0 undisputted for all eternity. make big alliances easier to throw out of their space, easier to challange. competition is good for eve. Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.04.16 22:56:00 - [87] If you decrease damage of the DD, than people will just get more titans. Its only a matter of time, thats all. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.04.16 22:56:00 - [88] Edited by: welsh wizard on 16/04/2007 23:02:12 I think the ops underlying gripe mirrors that of many older players too. I'm not old enough to remember Cruisers being the pride of any gang but I've been around to see the supremacy and ultimate demise of the battleship fleet. Those days are effectively over with the introduction of capitals and super capitals, especially the titan. I'm of the opinion that every fleet should be built around a core of fleet battleships, instead the fleet is now built around a core of capital ships. The simple fact is capital ships can act alone if you stick enough of them together (exception being cyno ships), I'm not sure this is as CCP intended. The great ships of the past were lost without their support fleet, the aircraft carriers were sitting ducks without a frigate & destroyer screen as were battleships. Capital ships in Eve can operate with a little too much impunity, especially super capitals. So in summary I think many players miss the intense battleship fleet fights that decided who controlled the surrounding space. Now capital ships have to be employed and the kicker is, battleships don't. I can't believe there isn't an imposed limit on super capitals in an alliance tbh. I mean it really isn't going to be long before the major alliances are fielding 10 titans and 20 motherships. Who needs a support fleet with that sort of firepower? No-one. edit: Should have read Reto's post above before I posted. That's pretty much the nail on the head tbh.
Shardrael Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.04.16 23:06:00 - [89] ok just one point I wanted to clear up, people who say 76000 dmg is not that much or could be done by battleships etc. you are all fricking stupid. its 76,000 dmg times however many ships in range, with large fleets lets say 100 ships that is then over 7,600,000 dmg with the push of a button which becomes insanely overpowered when an alliance has two or more(not just bob anyone) imo either cut the range of the dd drastically(maybe to 50km), remove the remote cynoing of it, or limit these ships to 1 an alliance(the latter being my least favorite) when these ships become a little more common it will be down to the point where it is not feasible for any smaller group to takeover space without one or defend their space without one.(if fighting against an alliance with one in the hands of a good pilot) Originally by: Stamm Some people might have been convinced by the official announcement posted by Steelrat, but not me, I wasn't convinced until some random alt posts a brand new thread.
Helen STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.04.17 00:04:00 - [90] Edited by: Helen on 17/04/2007 00:00:58 Originally by: welsh wizard Capital ships in Eve can operate with a little too much impunity, especially super capitals. Shush you. You get impunied pretty good with lag as it is when flying a supercapital it tends to attract blobs for some reason...

Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.17 00:08:00 - [91] Originally by: Belenkas Edited by: Belenkas on 16/04/2007 15:11:32 2. To fire DDD you would need to enter a 'siege' stage. Say 2 minutes to siege up and power up the DDD, then the blast happens wiping out entire t2(fitted) it fires the DDD. Your kidding right. If I have read your post correctly, your solution will provide one thing. No one will get DD'd. 2 mins to siege up? Thats a joke, Tell me, name one ship that wont warp in 1 min let alone 2. The DD alreadys gives something like 15secs. You can warp a bs in less time than that. Thats your warning right there. The problem is if you are loading grid just after the DD has been activated and that is just good piloting by the titan pilot/ or lucky. The DD itself is not the problem, it is not too powerful at all. The problem lies in 3 areas. The titan can jump out straight after the DD. The titan can remote DD and the titan DD rof is to short.
Ahz	Posted - 2007.04.17 00:33:00 - [92] And Titan can cloak.
Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.04.17 00:36:00 - [93] Originally by: welsh wizard The simple fact is capital ships can act alone if you stick enough of them together (exception being cyno ships), I'm not sure this is as CCP intended. The great ships of the past were lost without their support fleet, the aircraft carriers were sitting ducks without a frigate & destroyer screen as were battleships. Capital ships in Eve can operate with a little too much impunity, especially super capitals. So in summary I think many players miss the intense battleship fleet fights that decided who controlled the surrounding space. Now capital ships have to be employed and the kicker is, battleships don't. I can't believe there isn't an imposed limit on super capitals in an alliance tbh. I mean it really isn't going to be long before the major alliances are fielding 10 titans and 20 motherships. Who needs a support fleet with that sort of firepower? No-one. edit: Should have read Reto's post above before I posted. That's pretty much the nail on the head tbh. Some nifty ideas for sovereignty control aswell. Agreed. A temporary fix I suggested earlier was implementing static POS reinforcement times. IE you get say 3 options for how long a pos is in reinforcement(and you have to have enough fuel to cover the option you choose). Say 1 hour, 1 day, and 3 days reinforcement options. That way putting multiple POSes into reinforced at simultaneously actually has an effect.
korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.04.17 01:02:00 - [94] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: korrey Haha 20 second cap recharge time on a titan...I would like someone to show me these STACKED figures. Unless of course you forgot to add in your stacking penalty on your mods. And even if it was possible to get a Titan to cap recharge in 20 seconds...what does it matter lol. You guys are all arguing uselessly. Are you an idiot? There is no stacking penalty on cap recharge modules. Quote: If you fit it to recharge in 20 sec then you probably used all your slots..meaning? No one would do it and its pointless. I can get a ferox to field a Mega Pulse Laser II...does this mean im amazing and should be nerfed? Or does this mean no one gives a flip? What good is a ferox with a mega pulse on it? The titan with the all cap recharge mods can never be killed and can kill an entire support fleet once an hour. Your mega pulse ferox can do what? Quote: I can get a zealot to fly 25km/s, does this mean it should be nerfed, or does this mean I was bored and came up with a completely useless setup that will help me nil in a combat engagement?... my word people.. The 25km/sec zealot cant actually reach that speed without prepositioned logistics ships to cap boost it, and last I checked it cant kill a fleet of BS every hour. Did you totally misread what I said? What I pointed out was that if you can get a Cap ship to recharge in 20 seconds...good for you. You will have no tank and no one will actually fit it like so. Meaning the argument is useless. With the zealot, yes again I pointed out that it will do no good that it can fly fast. Again pointing out that a cap recharged titan is pointless. And point number 3 I forgot to mention: Any pilot with a competent tank can tank a DD in a battleship. Smaller ships? No, but you have a quarter of a minute to warp out, easily enough time. ----------- 24.01.06 Small patch that addresses some minor balancing issues 1) All minmatar pilots have been deleted
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2007.04.17 01:08:00 - [95] Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 17/04/2007 00:36:25 Originally by: welsh wizard The simple fact is capital ships can act alone if you stick enough of them together (exception being cyno ships), I'm not sure this is as CCP intended. The great ships of the past were lost without their support fleet, the aircraft carriers were sitting ducks without a frigate & destroyer screen as were battleships. Capital ships in Eve can operate with a little too much impunity, especially super capitals. So in summary I think many players miss the intense battleship fleet fights that decided who controlled the surrounding space. Now capital ships have to be employed and the kicker is, battleships don't. I can't believe there isn't an imposed limit on super capitals in an alliance tbh. I mean it really isn't going to be long before the major alliances are fielding 10 titans and 20 motherships. Who needs a support fleet with that sort of firepower? No-one. edit: Should have read Reto's post above before I posted. That's pretty much the nail on the head tbh. Some nifty ideas for sovereignty control aswell. Agreed. A temporary fix I suggested earlier was implementing static POS reinforcement times. IE you get say 3 options for how long a pos is in reinforcement(and you have to have enough fuel to cover the option you choose). Say 1 hour, 1 day, and 3 days reinforcement options. That way putting multiple POSes into reinforced at simultaneously actually has an effect. EDIT: And it wouldnt hurt for the new T2 BSes be anti-caps ship platforms. Perhaps give them hac resists plus bonuses to XL weapons or give them a very large damage bonus vs capitals but limit them to only 4 or 5 guns. HAHA your idea for T2 Battleships would absolutely pwn EvE. Hac like resistances and a few XL guns with 2 Rapiers and go to town instapopping Battleships. Nice one... ---------------- Freedom Of Speech Band of Brothers T-shirt
Terianna Eri Amarr STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.04.17 01:11:00 - [96] Originally by: korrey Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: korrey Haha 20 second cap recharge time on a titan...I would like someone to show me these STACKED figures. Unless of course you forgot to add in your stacking penalty on your mods. And even if it was possible to get a Titan to cap recharge in 20 seconds...what does it matter lol. You guys are all arguing uselessly. Are you an idiot? There is no stacking penalty on cap recharge modules. Quote: If you fit it to recharge in 20 sec then you probably used all your slots..meaning? No one would do it and its pointless. I can get a ferox to field a Mega Pulse Laser II...does this mean im amazing and should be nerfed? Or does this mean no one gives a flip? What good is a ferox with a mega pulse on it? The titan with the all cap recharge mods can never be killed and can kill an entire support fleet once an hour. Your mega pulse ferox can do what? Quote: I can get a zealot to fly 25km/s, does this mean it should be nerfed, or does this mean I was bored and came up with a completely useless setup that will help me nil in a combat engagement?... my word people.. The 25km/sec zealot cant actually reach that speed without prepositioned logistics ships to cap boost it, and last I checked it cant kill a fleet of BS every hour. Did you totally misread what I said? What I pointed out was that if you can get a Cap ship to recharge in 20 seconds...good for you. You will have no tank and no one will actually fit it like so. Meaning the argument is useless. With the zealot, yes again I pointed out that it will do no good that it can fly fast. Again pointing out that a cap recharged titan is pointless. And point number 3 I forgot to mention: Any pilot with a competent tank can tank a DD in a battleship. Smaller ships? No, but you have a quarter of a minute to warp out, easily enough time. The issue is that if the titan can recharge its cap in 20 seconds, that means it can cyno out in 20 seconds. Which means that it doesn't really need to tank. Because nothing is going to blow it up in those 20 seconds after the DD. Even if you had a dread fleet already in the system, and aligned, you'd still have only... about 10-15 seconds to lock, fire, and blow it up. And titans have a lot of hp to burn through. __________________________________ <-- Behold, the eve-o forums
Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.04.17 01:11:00 - [97] Originally by: korrey Did you totally misread what I said? What I pointed out was that if you can get a Cap ship to recharge in 20 seconds...good for you. You will have no tank and no one will actually fit it like so. Meaning the argument is useless. Except its not? Why would a titan need a tank? It has a negligible contribution to the front line, a dread does way more damage than a titan. The titan is only good for the jump bridge and the DD, both of which require massive amounts of cap but no tank. A titan is essentially invulnerable if it fitted all cap mods because it can just cyno out whenever its in danger. Quote: With the zealot, yes again I pointed out that it will do no good that it can fly fast. Again pointing out that a cap recharged titan is pointless. How is a cap recharged titan pointless? It fulfills all the functions of the titan and gives it virtual immunity to being destroyed. While the 25km/sec zealot is comepletely pointless and cannot do any of the things a standard fit zealot can. What did you think the titan's role was? Actually use its guns? When a cheap dread does more than twice as much damage? Quote: And point number 3 I forgot to mention: Any pilot with a competent tank can tank a DD in a battleship. Smaller ships? No, but you have a quarter of a minute to warp out, easily enough time. False. A standard fleet setup basically means ships like the geddon will have to sacrafice a lot of damage to tank a DD. In addition you aint gonna be supporting your dread fleet after that DD, which means the side that has the titan can bring in their own support fleet and wipe out your dreads. Lag means you cant warp out most of the time.
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.04.17 01:19:00 - [98] Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 17/04/2007 01:15:39 I still don't understand how they ever made it in game. They removed drone dmg mods before they got ingame because it was too overpowering, but a ship that can cyno in, destroy a fleet and cyno out straight away somehow isn't considered to be overpowered. I've never been DD'd either, I just always thought the concept was retarded. It defeats the whole point of this game. Anyone who uses the 'anti-blob' argument is missing the point. A titan isn't going to make you use smaller gangs, I really shouldn't have to explain why. Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.04.17 01:19:00 - [99] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: korrey Did you totally misread what I said? What I pointed out was that if you can get a Cap ship to recharge in 20 seconds...good for you. You will have no tank and no one will actually fit it like so. Meaning the argument is useless. Except its not? Why would a titan need a tank? It has a negligible contribution to the front line, a dread does way more damage than a titan. The titan is only good for the jump bridge and the DD, both of which require massive amounts of cap but no tank. A titan is essentially invulnerable if it fitted all cap mods because it can just cyno out whenever its in danger. Quote: With the zealot, yes again I pointed out that it will do no good that it can fly fast. Again pointing out that a cap recharged titan is pointless. How is a cap recharged titan pointless? It fulfills all the functions of the titan and gives it virtual immunity to being destroyed. While the 25km/sec zealot is comepletely pointless and cannot do any of the things a standard fit zealot can. What did you think the titan's role was? Actually use its guns? When a cheap dread does more than twice as much damage? Quote: And point number 3 I forgot to mention: Any pilot with a competent tank can tank a DD in a battleship. Smaller ships? No, but you have a quarter of a minute to warp out, easily enough time. False. A standard fleet setup basically means ships like the geddon will have to sacrafice a lot of damage to tank a DD. In addition you aint gonna be supporting your dread fleet after that DD, which means the side that has the titan can bring in their own support fleet and wipe out your dreads. Lag means you cant warp out most of the time. If a titan has no tank, it will die eventually. Much quicker than a tanked titan. So lets see...15km inties bumping titans from warping + no tank = ... ----------- 24.01.06 Small patch that addresses some minor balancing issues 1) All minmatar pilots have been deleted
Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.04.17 01:24:00 - [100] Originally by: korrey If a titan has no tank, it will die eventually. Much quicker than a tanked titan. So lets see...15km inties bumping titans from warping + no tank = ... =titan cynos out. Do you not know how to read?

Dimitrios Ypsilanti	Posted - 2007.04.17 01:31:00 - [101] Kind of agree that Eve is becoming a game completely dominated by the uber rich. I can only imagine what it's going to be like trying to join the game two years from now: insanely steep learning curve, six months before you have a prayer of holding your own in 1 on 1 combat, sitting cloaked in a rifter watching gates in fleet engagements while the big ships have their fun. The handwriting's on the wall and it's saying that there'll be less room for the little fish in the future. That's why after only four months in the game I'm more than halfway to a dread of my own. Welcome to the eve of the future.
korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.04.17 02:06:00 - [102] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: korrey If a titan has no tank, it will die eventually. Much quicker than a tanked titan. So lets see...15km inties bumping titans from warping + no tank = ... =titan cynos out. Do you not know how to read? I bolded and underlined the part you missed. You do know you can bump the ship out of warp with a few fast inties right?.. ----------- 24.01.06 Small patch that addresses some minor balancing issues 1) All minmatar pilots have been deleted
Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.04.17 02:13:00 - [103] Originally by: korrey Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: korrey If a titan has no tank, it will die eventually. Much quicker than a tanked titan. So lets see...15km inties bumping titans from warping + no tank = ... =titan cynos out. Do you not know how to read? I bolded and underlined the part you missed. You do know you can bump the ship out of warp with a few fast inties right?.. I bolded and underlined the part you missed. You do know that cynoing has nothing to do with warping right?
xHalcyonx Amarr EmpiresMod	Posted - 2007.04.17 02:22:00 - [104] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: korrey Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: korrey If a titan has no tank, it will die eventually. Much quicker than a tanked titan. So lets see...15km inties bumping titans from warping + no tank = ... =titan cynos out. Do you not know how to read? I bolded and underlined the part you missed. You do know you can bump the ship out of warp with a few fast inties right?.. I bolded and underlined the part you missed. You do know that cynoing has nothing to do with warping right? Let me clarify. If titan is not aligned it can't warp. If the titan has sufficient cap, it cyno's away. A simple solution would be to make the titan use 25% of its cap to fire it's DD. As it stands now, the titan uses less then 4% of its cap to fire the DD at maximum. With maximum cap skills it's a little less 2% of the total cap allowing an instant cyno out of system.
MasterDecoy Gallente Raddick Explorations NxT LeveL	Posted - 2007.04.17 02:28:00 - [105] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: korrey Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: korrey If a titan has no tank, it will die eventually. Much quicker than a tanked titan. So lets see...15km inties bumping titans from warping + no tank = ... =titan cynos out. Do you not know how to read? I bolded and underlined the part you missed. You do know you can bump the ship out of warp with a few fast inties right?.. I bolded and underlined the part you missed. You do know that cynoing has nothing to do with warping right? no, but warp scrambling does, oh, wait... would inties even be able to bump it is what i want to know as i was under the impression that only bigger things (nano[minnie dread] whatchamacallit) could possibly hope to bump it out of alignment? plus, where the **** are you gonna find many 15k inties anyways? and back on topic, nerf titans into oblivion. and while you're at it, nerf pos warfare, lag and venereal deseases
Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.04.17 02:35:00 - [106] Edited by: Gamesguy on 17/04/2007 02:32:04 Originally by: MasterDecoy no, but warp scrambling does, oh, wait... would inties even be able to bump it is what i want to know as i was under the impression that only bigger things (nano[minnie dread] whatchamacallit) could possibly hope to bump it out of alignment? plus, where the **** are you gonna find many 15k inties anyways? You cant bump a capital with anything less than a battleship, and even with battleships its hard(the carrier/dread moves like 5 degrees off alignment at the most). With a supercapital? The official dev response is you need a pair of nano naglfars, too bad nanos were nerfed into oblivion since that comment...
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.04.17 03:35:00 - [107] Originally by: goodby4u The DD weapon was implamented to decrease blobs...I think its fair to have a ship that costs 100bil+be very...very...powerfull. It does not however, all it does is increase them.
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.04.17 03:37:00 - [108] Originally by: korrey Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: korrey Did you totally misread what I said? What I pointed out was that if you can get a Cap ship to recharge in 20 seconds...good for you. You will have no tank and no one will actually fit it like so. Meaning the argument is useless. Except its not? Why would a titan need a tank? It has a negligible contribution to the front line, a dread does way more damage than a titan. The titan is only good for the jump bridge and the DD, both of which require massive amounts of cap but no tank. A titan is essentially invulnerable if it fitted all cap mods because it can just cyno out whenever its in danger. Quote: With the zealot, yes again I pointed out that it will do no good that it can fly fast. Again pointing out that a cap recharged titan is pointless. How is a cap recharged titan pointless? It fulfills all the functions of the titan and gives it virtual immunity to being destroyed. While the 25km/sec zealot is comepletely pointless and cannot do any of the things a standard fit zealot can. What did you think the titan's role was? Actually use its guns? When a cheap dread does more than twice as much damage? Quote: And point number 3 I forgot to mention: Any pilot with a competent tank can tank a DD in a battleship. Smaller ships? No, but you have a quarter of a minute to warp out, easily enough time. False. A standard fleet setup basically means ships like the geddon will have to sacrafice a lot of damage to tank a DD. In addition you aint gonna be supporting your dread fleet after that DD, which means the side that has the titan can bring in their own support fleet and wipe out your dreads. Lag means you cant warp out most of the time. If a titan has no tank, it will die eventually. Much quicker than a tanked titan. So lets see...15km inties bumping titans from warping + no tank = ... = cyno
Distrans The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.04.17 07:08:00 - [109] Originally by: Liang Nuren ... Simply put: Complete EW immunity needs to go away, and remote DDD should go away. ... Liang Big Yes, and soon áááááááá
The crablitt	Posted - 2007.04.17 07:22:00 - [110] Edited by: The crablitt on 17/04/2007 07:18:03 Originally by: xHalcyonx Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: korrey Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: korrey If a titan has no tank, it will die eventually. Much quicker than a tanked titan. So lets see...15km inties bumping titans from warping + no tank = ... =titan cynos out. Do you not know how to read? I bolded and underlined the part you missed. You do know you can bump the ship out of warp with a few fast inties right?.. I bolded and underlined the part you missed. You do know that cynoing has nothing to do with warping right? Let me clarify. If titan is not aligned it can't warp. If the titan has sufficient cap, it cyno's away. A simple solution would be to make the titan use 25% of its cap to fire it's DD. As it stands now, the titan uses less then 4% of its cap to fire the DD at maximum. With maximum cap skills it's a little less 2% of the total cap allowing an instant cyno out of system. If it did use 25% of the cap, I think tbh the pilots would fit for cap recharge, and still be in and out anyway. The doomsday device makes NO SENSE, CCP need to change it. Titans will ruin EvE and territorial warfare in the long run.

Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.17 08:23:00 - [111] Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 17/04/2007 02:32:04 Originally by: MasterDecoy no, but warp scrambling does, oh, wait... would inties even be able to bump it is what i want to know as i was under the impression that only bigger things (nano[minnie dread] whatchamacallit) could possibly hope to bump it out of alignment? plus, where the **** are you gonna find many 15k inties anyways? You cant bump a capital with anything less than a battleship, and even with battleships its hard(the carrier/dread moves like 5 degrees off alignment at the most). With a supercapital? The official dev response is you need a pair of nano naglfars, too bad nanos were nerfed into oblivion since that comment... That's not even close to true, both capitals and supercapitals can be bumped by battleships just fine. The model doesn't re-orient at more than a certain, rather low, rate but the vector changes and with it it's real orientation necessary for warp, not the visual and meaningless one. That doesn't make titans anymore killable though, just regular capitals.
Amitabh Bachchan	Posted - 2007.04.17 08:26:00 - [112] Originally by: Lars Intarestum Edited by: Lars Intarestum on 16/04/2007 19:09:59 I'm just a noob, but I noticed "1 Titan = 50 Dreads"... Has there ever been a 50 Dread fleet? There have been 100man dread fleets if I remember correctly. Seeing 50 person dread fleets are more common nowadays. Not that it matters, since DD is obsolete if you fly dreads. If titan cynoes in with 20 sec cap recharge to DD and cyno out, a 1 volley from 50 seiged dreads would kill it.
Horus Dark	Posted - 2007.04.17 08:35:00 - [113] They are to hard to kill imo. Yes they are expensive..but because they are almost not killable you will see a steady increase of them over all times. Meaning over a few years you would have dreads all over the place.
jeffb GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.04.17 08:55:00 - [114] The correct cap recharge time is closer to 7 seconds. Stolen from i forget where, [ TheRat ] 6750 (base cap regen) * 0.75 (eso V) * 0.64^5 (5 x 36%) * 0.67.5^8 (8 x 32.5% cap relay) * 0.8^2 (2 x 20% rigs) * 0.85 (1 x 15% rig) * 0.62.5 (avatar bonus) = ~7 seconds.
Delezar Hellfire-Empire	Posted - 2007.04.17 09:46:00 - [115] Edited by: Delezar on 17/04/2007 09:42:49 As posted above, the majority of eve hasn't seen a titan yet and probably never will. So how can a ship ruining the game when most of the people are not affected by it. It probably ruins your style of play, but that happened to alot of people when warpcore stabs were nerfed. It's adapt or die in eve, the blob had to relearn some things when interdictors were introduced too. As a hint, 'hiding' from a titan will not result in a kill of one. There are some entities in the game that push the ships they have to their limits just to see what they can do, for supercapitals look at The Establishment's Hera or how MC uses their super capitals. I don't see how any of the kills of the supercapitals so far can be branded as a 'kill by metagaming'. Titan #1 'Steve' killed while the pilot disconnected (by choice or bad luck doesn't really matter) with agression and getting probed, seems fine to me. ASCN fleet commanders could have noticed that the titan was offline and probe for it themselves to defend it, they didn't Titan #2 'Tigerente' was killed by using a spy ingame, I don't know about you, but I experienced spying first hand more then 2 years ago, so it is hardly new. It might be called lame, but that is highly dependend on the point of view. Titan #3 Didn't have a name yet since it wasn't hatched, but it falls basicly into spying as well, since there is no way to see the jobs otherwise. That the server was not really supporting a fight of that magnitude was another thing, but hardly in the hands of the players. Is it lame? Another question that won't get an objective answer. Mom #1 Probably the only real fight over a Supercapital and well done, but some might even say here it was lame, since it was blobbed and bumped. Mom #2 Well, same as Titan #3 basicly. So why don't you whiners just keep developing tactics and try them out instead of improving your eloquence and argumentation skills on the forums? Just making a doomsday prophecy isn't really doing anything.
The crablitt	Posted - 2007.04.17 09:54:00 - [116] Originally by: Delezar Edited by: Delezar on 17/04/2007 09:42:49 As posted above, the majority of eve hasn't seen a titan yet and probably never will. So how can a ship ruining the game when most of the people are not affected by it. It probably ruins your style of play, but that happened to alot of people when warpcore stabs were nerfed. It's adapt or die in eve, the blob had to relearn some things when interdictors were introduced too. As a hint, 'hiding' from a titan will not result in a kill of one. There are some entities in the game that push the ships they have to their limits just to see what they can do, for supercapitals look at The Establishment's Hera or how MC uses their super capitals. I don't see how any of the kills of the supercapitals so far can be branded as a 'kill by metagaming'. Titan #1 'Steve' killed while the pilot disconnected (by choice or bad luck doesn't really matter) with agression and getting probed, seems fine to me. ASCN fleet commanders could have noticed that the titan was offline and probe for it themselves to defend it, they didn't Titan #2 'Tigerente' was killed by using a spy ingame, I don't know about you, but I experienced spying first hand more then 2 years ago, so it is hardly new. It might be called lame, but that is highly dependend on the point of view. Titan #3 Didn't have a name yet since it wasn't hatched, but it falls basicly into spying as well, since there is no way to see the jobs otherwise. That the server was not really supporting a fight of that magnitude was another thing, but hardly in the hands of the players. Is it lame? Another question that won't get an objective answer. Mom #1 Probably the only real fight over a Supercapital and well done, but some might even say here it was lame, since it was blobbed and bumped. Mom #2 Well, same as Titan #3 basicly. So why don't you whiners just keep developing tactics and try them out instead of improving your eloquence and argumentation skills on the forums? Just making a doomsday prophecy isn't really doing anything. You dont agree that cynoing in, doomsdaying a fleet, cynoing out inside 20 seconds is wrong? BTW your 'apapt or die' is inrellevant in this argument...why? For the simple fact that Titans are such big scale. Its not like OMG nerf ECM, or OMG nerf stabs, this is about 1 ship, that in 20 seconds has the potential to completely destroy a 200 man BS fleet! So yea, currently the only super capital thats gone down in battle is a mothership, the two titans killed were when the pilots werent even on the game. Also...do you have a plan on how to kill a Titan? I was really like to hear it tbh. Titans will ruin EvE and territorial warfare in the long run.
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.04.17 10:45:00 - [117] Originally by: Delezar Mom #1 Probably the only real fight over a Supercapital and well done, but some might even say here it was lame, since it was blobbed and bumped. You're so caught up on principle you're completly forgeting this is a game, a titan DD'ing 200 people end up with 399 people with nothing to do and hours wasted. That comment up there seems to imply you have no concept of what it takes to kill a super-capital. It was blobbed and bumped? How else do you expect a ship invulrable to ECM to be killed? Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
NotAVirus DotExe	Posted - 2007.04.17 11:16:00 - [118] Originally by: Delezar So why don't you whiners just keep developing tactics and try them out instead of improving your eloquence and argumentation skills on the forums? Just making a doomsday prophecy isn't really doing anything. Any non-idiot titan pilot is going to sit cloaked in a safe spot, completely undetectable, until a gangmember drops a cyno on the enemy fleet. Then the titan will activate the DD(which has a 10 second activation) and then either recloak or cyno out. Either way, there is literally no way whatsoever that you're even going to see the titan. Please, why don't you tell us whiners what sort of brilliant tactics you can think up to counter that.
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2007.04.17 19:39:00 - [119] Edited by: Angus McLean on 17/04/2007 19:36:13 You guys realize it takes time to drop Cyno fields right? Any good fleet commander would have a tach geddon pop recons on the battlefield. Most likely you will want to kill battleships, but most people know the costs of killing an enemy battleship or stopping them from cynoing cap ships on you. (Edit: Meaning most people will see a recon and go "Bobby, stop shooting at that faction tanked scorpion and pop this recon in case hes making a cyno." Once its popped...you resume your buisness. ---------------- Freedom Of Speech Band of Brothers T-shirt
Bein Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.04.17 19:44:00 - [120] Originally by: Amitabh Bachchan Originally by: Lars Intarestum Edited by: Lars Intarestum on 16/04/2007 19:09:59 I'm just a noob, but I noticed "1 Titan = 50 Dreads"... Has there ever been a 50 Dread fleet? There have been 100man dread fleets if I remember correctly. Seeing 50 person dread fleets are more common nowadays. Not that it matters, since DD is obsolete if you fly dreads. If titan cynoes in with 20 sec cap recharge to DD and cyno out, a 1 volley from 50 seiged dreads would kill it. The equation for locking a titan in a dreadnought (Revelation with Signature Analysis V locking an Avatar, no sensor booster, and in siege mode): (10000/((55mm1.25).25))/(asinh(1425m)) = 73.14 seconds And that's assuming that the titan is actually in range (doomsdays have a 250km range) and the dreadnought has the appropriate ammo type loaded. Even with a sensor booster II fitted, it would take 45.7 seconds to lock, meaning a titan could get out in time, and with two SB IIs it would still be more than 30 seconds. Not to mention that its a lot more difficult to get fifty (its actually more like 67 if its only one shot, and more like 90 if you count innate armor EM resists for the revelation example, and double that if you have to use a longer range crystal like microwave XL) dreadnoughts together than it is to have one titan pilot around doing his own thing, and the phoenix and naglfar will be less useful since they use missiles, which won't reach the target in time or will get blown up in flight by smartbombs and the doomsday itself. That, and, while the titan can move and warp around all it wants, dreadnoughts in siege are completely immobile. If you seriously think that one-shotting another ship before it can attack or get away is a justifiable counter, you need to get a grip. Especially when even THAT won't work.

Morgaine Legray	Posted - 2007.04.17 19:58:00 - [121] sadly this game has gone to ****. It supports the super wealthy, and gives the little guy, the 'newb' if you will, the 1 year player, no chance to compete. Thats why I hit uninstall, I suggest others do the same, maybe ccp will take a hint.
Red Crown Kudzu Collective	Posted - 2007.04.17 22:06:00 - [122] Fleet warfare - 1. Fleet A Enters system 2. Titan A Enters system 2. Fleet B Enters system 3. Titan B Enters system 4. Titan A BBQs fleet B 5. Titan B BBQs fleet A 6. ??? 7. Profit! Why not just save us the trouble and isotopes and SD the fleets? Fun for the whole family. This is a problem CCP.... - "The Mains Created the alts They rebelled They look...and feel...human Some are programmed to think they are human There are many alts. And they have a plan." - Forumstar Galactica
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.17 22:42:00 - [123] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 17/04/2007 22:38:39 Originally by: Angus McLean Edited by: Angus McLean on 17/04/2007 19:36:13 You guys realize it takes time to drop Cyno fields right? Any good fleet commander would have a tach geddon pop recons on the battlefield. Most likely you will want to kill battleships, but most people know the costs of killing an enemy battleship or stopping them from cynoing cap ships on you. (Edit: Meaning most people will see a recon and go "Bobby, stop shooting at that faction tanked scorpion and pop this recon in case hes making a cyno." Once its popped...you resume your buisness. And i think you are playing different game than i do. In "my" EVE every ship except noobship can drop cyno in time it takes to activate one module. Then cynoing in titan takes another 2 clicks. Total time - abt 3 seconds (+ time it takes to load next system for capital ship). Next time before you start being smartass check cyno req's and cooldown. Or just buy one and fit it on t1 frig + launch it. EDIT: im not even 100% sure if noobship cant fit cyno gen... prolly not enough space to fit fuel tho.
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2007.04.17 23:16:00 - [124] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 17/04/2007 22:38:39 Originally by: Angus McLean Edited by: Angus McLean on 17/04/2007 19:36:13 You guys realize it takes time to drop Cyno fields right? Any good fleet commander would have a tach geddon pop recons on the battlefield. Most likely you will want to kill battleships, but most people know the costs of killing an enemy battleship or stopping them from cynoing cap ships on you. (Edit: Meaning most people will see a recon and go "Bobby, stop shooting at that faction tanked scorpion and pop this recon in case hes making a cyno." Once its popped...you resume your buisness. And i think you are playing different game than i do. In "my" EVE every ship except noobship can drop cyno in time it takes to activate one module. Then cynoing in titan takes another 2 clicks. Total time - abt 3 seconds (+ time it takes to load next system for capital ship). Next time before you start being smartass check cyno req's and cooldown. Or just buy one and fit it on t1 frig + launch it. EDIT: im not even 100% sure if noobship cant fit cyno gen... prolly not enough space to fit fuel tho. Oh how right you are, I should start playing eve. Not- cynosural field generator I max velocity bonus -100 Activation time / duration 600.00 sec Tech Level 1 Consumption type Liquid Ozone Consumption Quantity 500 ---------------- Freedom Of Speech Band of Brothers T-shirt
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2007.04.17 23:17:00 - [125] With skills that can be reduced, but it still takes the upwards of a minute or so to create.. ---------------- Freedom Of Speech Band of Brothers T-shirt
ArtemisEntreri Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.04.17 23:49:00 - [126] Originally by: Angus McLean With skills that can be reduced, but it still takes the upwards of a minute or so to create.. It activates immediately, it takes 10 minutes to deactiveate, so you pop up cyno and jump in immediately. There is no delay
Farjung Gallente TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.17 23:50:00 - [127] Originally by: Angus McLean With skills that can be reduced, but it still takes the upwards of a minute or so to create.. That's how long the field is up. ;\| --- Wave of Mutilation 2
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2007.04.18 00:57:00 - [128] I give up... ---------------- Freedom Of Speech Band of Brothers T-shirt
Slaptastic	Posted - 2007.04.18 00:58:00 - [129] Can we live without nerfing 1 module? Thats my question to the Eve-o users..
Turin Shroud Gallente Fermentation Process	Posted - 2007.04.18 01:15:00 - [130] You do realise if you kill the cyno the dd doesnt do any damage, if you cant kill a ship with a fleet in 15 seconds, then meh

Lynal Gallente Peregrin Avionics	Posted - 2007.04.18 03:02:00 - [131] Originally by: The crablitt Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: The crablitt Originally by: goodby4u The DD weapon was implamented to decrease blobs...I think its fair to have a ship that costs 100bil+be very...very...powerfull. Its fair to allow it to create a jump portal, and use a lot of capital sized weapons. The DD isnt fair, and by CCPs standings a bad way to implement an anti-blob system. If its so unfair why dont you fly one?Secondly im sure fleets of battleships you could buy with the cost of a titan could probably do more alpha strike then 76k. Also them fleets go boom or are left with hardly any HP in 1 press of a button from a Titan. I am fighting a force with a Titan, and fighting with a force that has a Titan. I have to say, I am so far behind being able to PvP in 0.0, the way I liked and enjoyed it, I am considering quiting EvE. Obviously you dont play the game if you dont like it, however I liked it before Titans come into play. EvE's POS wars/territorial battles were so much more fun with just battleships/support/tacklers/dreads. You had to be tactical, you had to think about what you were doing. Now all I can do is just dock or safe spot when a titan comes into play. I am practically useless, we've tried catching the Titan, but the large bubbles we keep placing go boom to fast, and by that time the titan has warped. Its fustrating, so maybe see this thread as a big whine from me, however CCP made Titans tooooooo good. Ok, it takes lots of logistics and isk to build and use, but once its being used, a single ship can scare a 100 man fleet off, because its classed as a Titan. no offense, but it sounds as if you're thinking too tactically and not strategically enough. as others have said, titans aren't about 1v1, their about fleet vs fleet. against something like that, you gotta think strategically... not tactically. kinda a sacrifice the pawn to get checkmate thing... sorry, your first wave of ships is gonna get one shotted, but you already knew that was going to happen... now when you're second wave of ships arrives... but wait, you did leave most of your fleet behind until after that titan had fired off its DD right?
Tearavygh Quillam Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 07:33:00 - [132] Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 17/04/2007 02:32:04 Originally by: MasterDecoy no, but warp scrambling does, oh, wait... would inties even be able to bump it is what i want to know as i was under the impression that only bigger things (nano[minnie dread] whatchamacallit) could possibly hope to bump it out of alignment? plus, where the **** are you gonna find many 15k inties anyways? You cant bump a capital with anything less than a battleship, and even with battleships its hard(the carrier/dread moves like 5 degrees off alignment at the most). With a supercapital? The official dev response is you need a pair of nano naglfars, too bad nanos were nerfed into oblivion since that comment... That's not even close to true, both capitals and supercapitals can be bumped by battleships just fine. The model doesn't re-orient at more than a certain, rather low, rate but the vector changes and with it it's real orientation necessary for warp, not the visual and meaningless one. That doesn't make titans anymore killable though, just regular capitals. I'm also adding the fact that you can bump a ship into warp too. The ones that say "sure, if you're a retard, yes" should think first how can you control the resultant vector of 20-25 vectors. Titans are too overpowered because of 3 facts: - cyno in/ cyno out at will. - remote DD detonation (only a titan can fit a DD) - total immunity to EW. At least all of them should be nerfed to some extent. And then you say "well, it costs 120bil, i want it to be invincible", no, invincibility shouldn't be bought.
Tearavygh Quillam Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 07:45:00 - [133] Originally by: Turin Shroud You do realise if you kill the cyno the dd doesnt do any damage, if you cant kill a ship with a fleet in 15 seconds, then meh That's not it. Let's say your fleet lies into a 20km radius sphere, which is a lot. What happens is: - a covert stays at 100km from that sphere. - a cyno ship warps in, activates the cyno. - the cyno ship is blown up by 5 snipers in 10 secs. - the DD gets activated via the cyno because you can't target a cyno field, you need smartbombs to destroy it. - you can't warp to that cyno as it's too close to you. - maybe some inties will get in fast, but how many fleet inties fly away with smartbombs and go 7km/s+. So, as you see, it's pretty tricky for the defender, but it's pretty easy for the attacker.
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.04.18 08:42:00 - [134] Originally by: Turin Shroud You do realise if you kill the cyno the dd doesnt do any damage, if you cant kill a ship with a fleet in 15 seconds, then meh You're aware that blowing up the ship doesn't destroy the cyno right?
Tommy Vercetti Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.18 10:29:00 - [135] Originally by: Ifni What's the real issue here? Broken game mechanics, or disappointment at your own performance. If the loss of 2 ships sends you back to Empire, why are you taking part in Alliance level combat? The generally touted phrase is "if you can't afford to lose it, don't fly it." That applies to Titans too. 120b++ to buy the bpo's and build, and then there's the running costs. It's not cheap to fire the jump portal or doomsday. It sucks, for you, that you died. But really, Titans are reasonably fine as they are. Just remember that not even a tenth of the player base has seen one yet. Dude, even BoB pilots say certain aspects of the titan are overpowered. It's got nothing to do with whose side you're on, and more that your interests will be nerfed for the sake of some balance. Half your post talks more about slanging crap on the other side then even talking about the damn ship. Originally by: Pestillence It's a game where we fly around in eggs with tubes up our arses. If I want reality I'll go outside.
The crablitt	Posted - 2007.04.18 11:16:00 - [136] Originally by: Lynal no offense, but it sounds as if you're thinking too tactically and not strategically enough. as others have said, titans aren't about 1v1, their about fleet vs fleet. against something like that, you gotta think strategically... not tactically. kinda a sacrifice the pawn to get checkmate thing... sorry, your first wave of ships is gonna get one shotted, but you already knew that was going to happen... now when you're second wave of ships arrives... but wait, you did leave most of your fleet behind until after that titan had fired off its DD right? The thing is, titans seem to be in and out. The way I see it, you cant catch a titan once its cyno'd out, and from my experience from the cyno going down to the titan jumping in and out, its been like 30 seconds. CCP should make them killable, and they should nerf the DD. More than 1 Titan = no support or BS in the fight. So ISK IN EVE > SKILL? Titans will ruin EvE and territorial warfare in the long run.
Dionisius Gallente Ordem dos Templarios Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.04.18 11:37:00 - [137] Then why doesn't CCP makes a specific ship for poping cynos?It would give everyone a chance, not some recon, some capital support ship, cruiser sized for instance. And make cyno disrupting probes, like a probe launched at a cynofield to kill it or stop transit of the thing for lets say almost a minute. _______________________ What we have here is total lack of respect for the law...
Hank Showbo Neyi Industries	Posted - 2007.04.18 14:35:00 - [138] Originally by: Dionisius Then why doesn't CCP makes a specific ship for poping cynos?It would give everyone a chance, not some recon, some capital support ship, cruiser sized for instance. And make cyno disrupting probes, like a probe launched at a cynofield to kill it or stop transit of the thing for lets say almost a minute. That would mean all capitals get nerfed.
Kazuo Ishiguro	Posted - 2007.04.18 15:12:00 - [139] Originally by: Caldari Online how do you propsoe taking over a region or a station or killing a pos with a 20-30 man gang I envision a role for fixed stealth bombers here - give them (expensive) bombs so large that only one or two can be carried by a single bomber. Set the numbers so that a precision strike by a few dozen bombers (i.e. within a few seconds of each other) is enough to get a titan/capital ship/POS well into structure. If used correctly, the bombers would be immune to most weapons cruiser-sized or larger. It would be up to the rest of the fleet to pin down the target for just long enough. As a bonus, this would give destroyers an important counter-role. ------ Top speed calculation spreadsheet - updated for the recent speed nerf Army of doom headcount: 26,045
Dionisius Gallente Ordem dos Templarios Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.04.18 17:07:00 - [140] Originally by: Hank Showbo Originally by: Dionisius Then why doesn't CCP makes a specific ship for poping cynos?It would give everyone a chance, not some recon, some capital support ship, cruiser sized for instance. And make cyno disrupting probes, like a probe launched at a cynofield to kill it or stop transit of the thing for lets say almost a minute. That would mean all capitals get nerfed. No, it would meant that all players would get a even chance in battle, you could make that cap support ship cloakable for instance. Thus not needing to nerf ships, and for what i read you could had some cap drainage to the DD activation, that would be reasonable also. _______________________ What we have here is total lack of respect for the law...

Mariosav	Posted - 2007.04.18 17:41:00 - [141] Quote: Once again i must say its one hell of an expensive ship,it should be able to kill its weight,its also very rare. yeah, because only alliances with uber complexes can afford them
Adamantium Beams Section XIII	Posted - 2007.04.18 20:09:00 - [142] Originally by: Mariosav Quote: Once again i must say its one hell of an expensive ship,it should be able to kill its weight,its also very rare. yeah, because only alliances with uber complexes can afford them Or uber pets
Turin Shroud Gallente Fermentation Process	Posted - 2007.04.18 21:47:00 - [143] Originally by: welsh wizard Originally by: Turin Shroud You do realise if you kill the cyno the dd doesnt do any damage, if you cant kill a ship with a fleet in 15 seconds, then meh You're aware that blowing up the ship doesn't destroy the cyno right? er yes it does, go try.
The crablitt	Posted - 2007.04.19 08:33:00 - [144] Originally by: Dionisius Originally by: Hank Showbo Originally by: Dionisius Then why doesn't CCP makes a specific ship for poping cynos?It would give everyone a chance, not some recon, some capital support ship, cruiser sized for instance. And make cyno disrupting probes, like a probe launched at a cynofield to kill it or stop transit of the thing for lets say almost a minute. That would mean all capitals get nerfed. No, it would meant that all players would get a even chance in battle, you could make that cap support ship cloakable for instance. Thus not needing to nerf ships, and for what i read you could had some cap drainage to the DD activation, that would be reasonable also. Even if it required quite a bit of cap, you can get like a 7 second cap recharge on a titan if you invest a lot of isk. Having said that, I dont think a Titan should be able to cyno out straight away, even if its cap is recharged. It should be given a cyno-out delay providing its fired its doomsday weapon. Something in the lines of 20 minutes. Titans will ruin EvE and territorial warfare in the long run.
ReePeR McAllem The Carebear Stare Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.19 08:53:00 - [145] Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.
Tregaron Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2007.04.19 09:02:00 - [146] Half the people in this forum moaning ain't even seen a titan. DD weapons are nerved (can only be used 1s then u got to sit at a pos and recharge it) oh btw get 60 kessi all shoot a full volly you do more damage than a DD Talk to anyone who got poped by a titan and they'll say it was worth the chance to see the DD 2007.03.26 03:26 Victim: Alliance: THE R0CK Corp: The Keep Destroyed: Pilgrim System: EC-P8R Security: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: (laid the final blow) Security: 5.0 Alliance: Dusk and Dawn Corp: Asgard Schiffswerften Ship: Erebus Weapon: Aurora Ominae Destroyed items: Medium Nosferatu II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II 10MN Afterburner II Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I Medium Armor Repairer II Co-Processor II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II N-Type Explosive Hardener I Ogre II (Drone Bay) Wasp II (Drone Bay) Berserker II (Drone Bay) [/url]
Dionisius Gallente Ordem dos Templarios Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.04.19 09:20:00 - [147] Originally by: The crablitt Originally by: Dionisius Originally by: Hank Showbo Originally by: Dionisius Then why doesn't CCP makes a specific ship for poping cynos?It would give everyone a chance, not some recon, some capital support ship, cruiser sized for instance. And make cyno disrupting probes, like a probe launched at a cynofield to kill it or stop transit of the thing for lets say almost a minute. That would mean all capitals get nerfed. No, it would meant that all players would get a even chance in battle, you could make that cap support ship cloakable for instance. Thus not needing to nerf ships, and for what i read you could had some cap drainage to the DD activation, that would be reasonable also. Even if it required quite a bit of cap, you can get like a 7 second cap recharge on a titan if you invest a lot of isk. Having said that, I dont think a Titan should be able to cyno out straight away, even if its cap is recharged. It should be given a cyno-out delay providing its fired its doomsday weapon. Something in the lines of 20 minutes. Add power consumption and that delay to cyno out and it would be sweet, the Titan would not be a pwnmobile no more. _______________________ What we have here is total lack of respect for the law...
Drasked North Face Force Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.19 09:23:00 - [148] Titans would be balanced if; 1.) They are affected by EW 2.) Can't DD trough a cyno
Gabriel Roberts Minmatar Brecken Solutions	Posted - 2007.04.19 10:33:00 - [149] Originally by: Tregaron Half the people in this forum moaning ain't even seen a titan. DD weapons are nerved (can only be used 1s then u got to sit at a pos and recharge it) oh btw get 60 kessi all shoot a full volly you do more damage than a DD Talk to anyone who got poped by a titan and they'll say it was worth the chance to see the DD Killmail stuff Unfortunately 60 kessies can't insta pop 200+ ships or more at once, however 1 kessie with a cyno can. So every time I get popped by a dd I should be grateful because I got to see it....no. Why are people arguing about being able to blow up a cyno? By the time the lag has rolled around your all dead anyway, if you're talking about hitting the cyno before the IWB jumps in then you're delusional. Once you get to the cyno the titan is gone or he instapops you with officer smartbombs, that's if your fortunate enough no to warp in front of an enemy pos. Cost is irrelevant, by this time next year there will 20 or more Titans around all unkillable unless some of them sucumb to the dreaded logoff or metagame tactic. In truth I don't mind anything except for the remote dd'n, it should have to warp it's big ugly ass into the fight. I like the capital warp scramblers and webbers idea. Nothing like watching dreads and titans cruise close range to each other while they're firing off shots, carriers and motherships off in the distance with fighters swarming about (off course the niddy's would be up close desperately trying to keep the other capitals armor/shield up). All other ships that survied the DD(s) in the swarm cruising in out of the capital ship cluster $#%)!.... good times.
The crablitt	Posted - 2007.04.19 10:42:00 - [150] Originally by: Gabriel Roberts Originally by: Tregaron Half the people in this forum moaning ain't even seen a titan. DD weapons are nerved (can only be used 1s then u got to sit at a pos and recharge it) oh btw get 60 kessi all shoot a full volly you do more damage than a DD Talk to anyone who got poped by a titan and they'll say it was worth the chance to see the DD Killmail stuff Unfortunately 60 kessies can't insta pop 200+ ships or more at once, however 1 kessie with a cyno can. So every time I get popped by a dd I should be grateful because I got to see it....no. Why are people arguing about being able to blow up a cyno? By the time the lag has rolled around your all dead anyway, if you're talking about hitting the cyno before the IWB jumps in then you're delusional. Once you get to the cyno the titan is gone or he instapops you with officer smartbombs, that's if your fortunate enough no to warp in front of an enemy pos. Cost is irrelevant, by this time next year there will 20 or more Titans around all unkillable unless some of them sucumb to the dreaded logoff or metagame tactic. In truth I don't mind anything except for the remote dd'n, it should have to warp it's big ugly ass into the fight. I like the capital warp scramblers and webbers idea. Nothing like watching dreads and titans cruise close range to each other while they're firing off shots, carriers and motherships off in the distance with fighters swarming about (off course the niddy's would be up close desperately trying to keep the other capitals armor/shield up). All other ships that survied the DD(s) in the swarm cruising in out of the capital ship cluster $#%)!.... good times. Sounds fun and epic, but there isnt a place for me in that story. Unless you mention the Doomsday victims. Titans will ruin EvE and territorial warfare in the long run.

Rexthor Hammerfists Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.19 10:50:00 - [151] the problem with titans is that they are so hard to kill, there is no reason to take it to the battlefield.. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
Belenkas Amarr	Posted - 2007.04.19 11:13:00 - [152] Thats the whole point of the bad side of Titan. It doesn't need to show up in the battlefield to do it's (current) main role. Change that, as well as instant cyno-out after DDD, and you remove the 'unkillable' part of Titan. Doesn't need to be 20 minutes wait out(that would definitely mean death everytime anyone uses a DDD), make it 1-5 minutes movement blocking after DDD is fired and you give a tactic for the opposition to counter the Titan. Although I would much more like to see Titan change a role from DDD-platform to something else, more reasonable. Give it insane gang bonuses, add superior weapons, make it possible to carry tons of battleships inside(preferably in the form of people docked, so they can undock when needed and not need to risk to hover to the ship maint array in a pod), whatever, but not the DDD-platform. It is a weapon which should be used only in epic battles on rare occasions when Titan pilot is in deep crap. Or then name the DDD to Titan Smartbomb and move it to smartbombs category, because right now it is just that. No way it could be named Doomsday device in it's current form.
Dionisius Gallente Ordem dos Templarios Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.04.19 11:58:00 - [153] Originally by: Belenkas Thats the whole point of the bad side of Titan. It doesn't need to show up in the battlefield to do it's (current) main role. Change that, as well as instant cyno-out after DDD, and you remove the 'unkillable' part of Titan. Doesn't need to be 20 minutes wait out(that would definitely mean death everytime anyone uses a DDD), make it 1-5 minutes movement blocking after DDD is fired and you give a tactic for the opposition to counter the Titan. Although I would much more like to see Titan change a role from DDD-platform to something else, more reasonable. Give it insane gang bonuses, add superior weapons, make it possible to carry tons of battleships inside(preferably in the form of people docked, so they can undock when needed and not need to risk to hover to the ship maint array in a pod), whatever, but not the DDD-platform. It is a weapon which should be used only in epic battles on rare occasions when Titan pilot is in deep crap. Or then name the DDD to Titan Smartbomb and move it to smartbombs category, because right now it is just that. No way it could be named Doomsday device in it's current form. Why do i get the feeling that some*(ALOT) of people only see the nerfbat in front of their eyes until the given item that they want to nerf so badly is either ruined beyond use or in their possession? _______________________ What we have here is total lack of respect for the law...
Belenkas Amarr	Posted - 2007.04.19 14:17:00 - [154] I dont want Titan to be nerfed. I just don't like the current state of it. Hell, it shouldn't be nerfed but seriously boosted on fleet support side and weapons usage. Having IWIN button which costs 120bil to build and 40mil to launch(approx numbers) is not good for game. And everyone knows that, doesn't matter whether they have the Titan or not.
Augeas	Posted - 2007.04.19 15:02:00 - [155] How about... 1. Remove the remote DD. 2. 2 new modules - Inferior and Superior Cynosural Interdictors. Inferior: Prevents motherships from cynoing out. Can only be fitted to Motherships and Titans. Superior: Prevents Titans from cynoing out. Can only be fitted to Titans. Set a Titan, to catch a Titan? (I doubt that this is an original idea, but it sounds interesting)
Trojanman190 Caldari The Conflagration	Posted - 2007.04.19 15:22:00 - [156] I think they should be given an exhaust port that leads directly to the core of the titan. This exhaust port should have a trench built into the surface of the titan leading directly to the port. This trench should be well defended with turrets [If they knew it was a weakness they wouldn't have built it into the design, but since it was so heavily defended they must have known about it...] Yeah... just kidding. If the titan is anti-blob then leave all of its offensive capabilities where they are. Let it shoot through cynos and all that. Maybe even make its DD a little more powerful. Leave it's ability to jump fleets and be immune to ewar and all that kinda jazz. Now, prevent the titan from fitting smart bombs. Any smart bombs. Now it needs a support fleet to stave off bumpers. Remove most of its tanking ability. Give it pathetic tanking ability. Maybe like a regular blah carrier. Now its support fleet needs repping carriers to keep it alive. The repping carriers and the titan are vulnerable to dreads, so dreads will be needed do defend the fleet. But the dreads are vulnerable to massed battleships.... so that will need to be countered... but back to the bumpers. Inteceptors and the like will be needed to keep them from bumping the titan. This solution keeps the value and the use of the Titan the same. It is a doomsday weapon that can blow tons and tons of stuff up at once. Its still worth billions, but now its not the solo death machine with all the crazy tanking ability. Now titans can become the center of fleet combat. You might be thinking that all this does is move the blob to the titan. Well it does but there might be another way to solve that. Allow dreads and titans to fit area of effect cannon type weapons. Think flak guns but really really big. They have horrible tracking speeds and are pretty much worthless on anything smaller than a battleship. If the canon misses, no boom. If it hits, it could have an effect similar to a smart bomb. If nothing else changes at all, it would be a good fix to make it vulnerable to scramblers. At least then it would have to finish any battles it started.
Derrios Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.04.19 16:47:00 - [157] there is much QQ in this thread. ----------------------------------------------- I got something to put in you. at the *** bar.
xXHitmanXx	Posted - 2007.04.19 17:05:00 - [158] Titans are good as well as the dd. Reason why i say this is bcz there are ways of taking them down and surviveing dd. The most popular way as of right now to take down a titan is they try to log and the oppisite side gank it :p Other then that u got to bump him and nos the crap out of it so it cant jump out. There r fitting that u can put on your ship to survive it. My alliance has got in a fight with orange species (how ever u spell his name) if u know who he is he has a titan and we have engaged it many of times and survived his dd very well and still putting up a good fight agianst his fleet. Also ccp wouldnt allow a titan to be in the game if it wasnt able to go down. Sooner or later ppl will know what to do and trust me when u take down a 100+ bill ship or however much it cost u will feel great knowing that u and your buds just made a corp/alliance very upset :p
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.19 17:12:00 - [159] Originally by: Distrans Originally by: Liang Nuren ... Simply put: Complete EW immunity needs to go away, and remote DDD should go away. ... Liang Big Yes, and soon Then why the hell would anyone want to spend 200+ Billion on one? Sure theer are parts that should be charge like this instant recharge rate people are harping about but if someone is going to spend that much, it better damn well be worth it. Anyone who is expecting them to remove any parts of the titan's abilities is just plain out kidding themselves. They are out there and they required alot of work. While those 'big' alliances can make these ships, it still requires a massive effort and alot of time (not including 3+ months of training to pilot and use its specific modules) to actually get these out. So for those arguing nerf, imagine how all those people who put all those hours into effort are going to feel when they see 200+ Billion go down the crapper.
Druadan Gallente Aristotle Enterprises Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.04.20 10:37:00 - [160] I've not had the fortune to witness a titan yet, but the way I see it the problem is the flexibility of offensive timing that the titan has. To be able to cyno in, detonate such a hugely destructive weapon, and then still have enough cap to cyno back out immediately, is ridiculous. If this was meant to stop blobbing, then surely we can infer that CCP intended us to use guerrilla tactics to take it out? Or perhaps to evade the titan and use hit and run gangs so that the titan would have to choose which assault to use it's DDD on? But the fact that the titan can cyno in, destroy a fleet, and cyno out makes it a guerrilla weapon of mass destruction itself. Remove that ability and you solve a large portion of the problem, so make the DDD use a monstrous amount of cap so that it has to recharge to cyno out. Of course, you then need to nerf its awesome cap recharge ability. __________________________________________________ "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire

The Armin Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.04.20 11:17:00 - [161] Titans isn't overpowered (: Titans/Motherships+Smartbombs maybe is though cause the sheer size of the titan/ms gives them an insane range... Soo imo either, boost dictor bubble hp, or nerf the smartbombs. Titans are fine.
Distrans The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.04.20 12:53:00 - [162] Originally by: Derran Originally by: Distrans Originally by: Liang Nuren ... Simply put: Complete EW immunity needs to go away, and remote DDD should go away. ... Liang Big Yes, and soon Then why the hell would anyone want to spend 200+ Billion on one? Sure theer are parts that should be charge like this instant recharge rate people are harping about but if someone is going to spend that much, it better damn well be worth it. Anyone who is expecting them to remove any parts of the titan's abilities is just plain out kidding themselves. They are out there and they required alot of work. While those 'big' alliances can make these ships, it still requires a massive effort and alot of time (not including 3+ months of training to pilot and use its specific modules) to actually get these out. So for those arguing nerf, imagine how all those people who put all those hours into effort are going to feel when they see 200+ Billion go down the crapper. I could not care less for what people deserve in this game for spending 200+B but I know just every other player deserves the possibility to bring the thing down. And adjusting DD-use and non-tackle wont make the ships worthless. So where is U'K's Capital Shipyard!? áááááááá
Tassill Minmatar GREY COUNCIL Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.02 11:34:00 - [163] I think titans are a mighty lame idea that ccp implemented because they realised that it was easier to disscourage blobbing than fix the game mechanics that make blobs effective. Their fix to the blob issue was not to find a way to allow combat without blobs, rather it was a way to penilise peope who use blobs thus disscouraging blobbing. Its like having a free car park however it dosent have enough spaces for those who it is provided for. So the clever managment say "ahh we can introdcue pay for parking to disscourage people from driving", rather than just increasing the spaces and fixing the problem. Of course this dosent work in practice, as most people have little choice about whether or not they drive (at least thats the case here in Australia where distances are large and public transport crappy). And the same applies to blobbing, CCP havent offered an alternitive to it or even attempted to fix the real issue. Rather they have introduced this "cost" of blobbing to penilise the people who have no choice in the matter. So now we are forced to continue to blob with the ever present threat of being doomsdayed by "the man in the big ship".... Well done ccp another great inititave!! The fact is that ccp keep implementing these stupid ideas that have knock on effects that they dont seem to consider. Ideas like the increase in hp.... what a great way to increase combat time that was . All it has realy achieved is that now blobs need to be corispondingly larger to be as effective... once again well done ccp. At the mean time they are nerfing the ships that excell at solo pvp, rather than boosting the races that miss similar ships... hmm now that my solo pvp ship has been nerfed i might go join a gang... wait do ccp want me to blob? /me Sigh Since we seem to be stuck with titans tho i think that the doomsday weapon should be removed from the game... give them a big damage bonus to turrents and a tracking bonus or something. Another thing which should be changed is that cap rechargers should be stacking nerfed!!! Up until now their was no real advantage to having a 10 second cap recharge time on any ship. However since a titan doesnt need a tank and is only vunerable to nos this seems to be the current rage. This needs to be changed to remove the rediculus jump in.. doomsday.... jump out all in less than a min c**p that is going on. End Rant Tassill
Andreya	Posted - 2007.05.02 12:00:00 - [164] titans are horrible, CCP stop exampind to bigger ships and continue to expand to more types fo cruisers/frigs and destroyers whats even worse is eventually every 0.0 alliance will have titans and what the hell will be the point of rbinging in a smaller fleet to engage. when they will just nuke you. Titans should be abolished, replace with with mobile stations or somethin :P (and motherships shouldnt be scram-proof)
Redora Gallente Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.02 12:55:00 - [165] Edited by: Redora on 02/05/2007 12:54:41 Edited by: Redora on 02/05/2007 12:52:14 I've never seen a Titan myself, but after some thought, I'm really at a loss as to it's purpose. Bonuses seem to indicate a somewhat... Schizophrenic thought process. Erebus Bonii: Gallente Titan Skill Bonuses: 10% bonus to Capital Hybrid Turret damage per level 7.5% bonus to gang membersGÇÖ maximum armor HP per level 99% reduction in CPU need for Capital Jump Bridge Array 99% reduction in CPU need for Aurora Ominae 99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare What DOES one do with it? Honestly, most other ships in Eve seem to have a niche into which they fit... Everyman Ships: Friggies: Cheap, toss away ships for small gangs. Inties: Hold enemies down until bigger ships get there. Assault Frigates: The "Anti-Inty" (or so I'm told) and destroyer/cruiser sized DPS in a frigate sized package. Destroyers: The Anti-Frigate. Interdictors: Interceptors writ large. Cruisers: Heavier firepower for small gangs. HAC: Battlecruiser/Battleship sized DPS in a Cruiser sized package. The "better" weapon to combat the "bigger" weapon. Battlecruisers: Faster, less armoured, but somewhat similar DPS to a Battleship (more prevalent in T2 BC, yes.) Command Ships: Gang bonuses and Battleship sized DPS in an uber tank. The ultimate for small/medium 'raid' gangs. Battleships: Big, slow, cumbersome ships for larger fleet ops, taking out POS, support of Dreads, camping, etc. Territorial warfare style ops. Capital Ships: Dreadnoughts: POS Removal. 3 turret/launcher slots (respective of their bonuses) and a 99% CPU reduction on a module that makes them immobile, like their targets. Carriers: Remote Power Projection. Fighters warp with the assigned controller (or target). Mom: A bigger Carrier, with a Gang Mod Bonus and a Clone Vat bay. So it moves other stuff/pilots to a designated area where they then commence ops. Titan:?? A bigger dread? Except the DDD doesn't render it vulnerable as the Siege Module does a Dread. With respect to real-world functionality, what DOES a Titan do/represent? All of it's functions are already filled, except the "Cyno in, pop fleet, cyno out" aspect. You don't fit guns on it (So the gunnery bonus is worthless, yeah?) because you don't take it into combat (As the opposing fleet will bump/nos it until it dies...), and who wants a 'mere' 6 capital sized guns anyhow, when you can have 18 (with siege mod) on a dread that costs 1/100th of the cost? It can't project power like a Carrier/Mom can, as it can't deploy fighters/assign fighters to controllers. Command ships and Mom's already fill "gang support", and likely do it somewhat better since they remain on the field of battle (or at least in system...) Having never seen a Titan (beyond ASCN's movie) all I can say is it seems to need a PURPOSE, not just be the 'anti-blob.' [Edits: Spelling and attempts to remove fallacious arguments. ] --- Redora Quote: # Logging off immediately after jumping into a warp disruptor bubble no longer grants invulnerability, much to the delight of gate campers everywhere.
AS Patriot StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.05.02 13:18:00 - [166] Hmm the DDD is indeed a nice weapon of mass destruction. But in order to make the titans be more funny to use would be like to make them more like huge gunboats instead maybe? and a siege module... Fitting 7 cannons + a siege module plus a bunch of weapon bonuses could actually make the Titan a little more funnier in game aspect, rather than just a DDD deployer and Jump bridge maker (which is a nice thing indeed!) __________________________________________________ The best corp out there:
zwerg mUfFiN fAcToRy Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.02 13:25:00 - [167] so you got ownt by ddd..... and u ****ed off.... and u cried about it and couldnt sleep.... then u slapped and cut yourself.... and cried even more.... sry, but it sounds u fit into WoW more than in eve m8 ... eve's youngest piwat Yarrrr :)
Fubear Vogon Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.05.02 13:31:00 - [168] The Titan as a ship is fine when used in its 'intended' role - that of a mobile logistics station. It is the doomsday that is causing the problems. No doomsday should be used hourly with almost no cost (Anyone spending 50Bil+ on the ship is not going to go broke over 20Mil a shot). The doomsday should be a 'last resort' weapon only, extremely powerfull but also extremely difficult and expensive to use - only then will it start living up to its name. Right now the only reason NOT to doomsday that lone BS you see is the chance that you might have the chance to get more kills in the next hour - the loot alone will probably pay for you DD bill. I would make the following change to the Doomsday device: - Double the damage - 99% cap reduction on activation - No remote doomsday functionality - Increase fuel cost to somewhere around 5-10Billion - Increase recharge time to 24 hours This would make the weapon more of a tactical option to be deployed only when the situation demands it, rather than the 'doomsday as many and as often as you can' approach we currently see in use. While having a Titan jump in and nuke your fleet is fun the first time, when it happens every time you try and have a fight it get olds real quick. The only way to contribute to alliance level combat these days is to fly a capital ship. You should not have to have over 20Mil SP to take part in alliance level combat!
Evil Thug Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.02 16:09:00 - [169] Originally by: Trent Jager There should be a 10-20min countdown after the titan has set off its ddd before it can active its jump drive. I’ve witnessed the d2 titan cynoing in, instantly setting off its ddd and jumping back out strait after it was finished. Although we took minimal losses and did complete the task we set out to accomplish. I find it a bit lame that there was no element of risk involved in this attack. There is risk, that he will never download grid, moron.
Shidhe Minmatar The Babylon5 Consortuim Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.02 16:32:00 - [170] The problem with DD being anti-blob is that it takes out most of the grid (the local playing area). To discourage blobs it should take out an average blob, not a whole battlefield. If the radius was 50 Km or thereabouts it might encourage people to spread out battles over the whole grid rather than risk all their ships in one go (i.e. we might get some reason for manouverability and tactics).

Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.05.02 17:44:00 - [171] Originally by: Fubear The Titan as a ship is fine when used in its 'intended' role - that of a mobile logistics station. It is the doomsday that is causing the problems. No doomsday should be used hourly with almost no cost (Anyone spending 50Bil+ on the ship is not going to go broke over 20Mil a shot). The doomsday should be a 'last resort' weapon only, extremely powerfull but also extremely difficult and expensive to use - only then will it start living up to its name. Right now the only reason NOT to doomsday that lone BS you see is the chance that you might have the chance to get more kills in the next hour - the loot alone will probably pay for you DD bill. I would make the following change to the Doomsday device: - Double the damage - 99% cap reduction on activation - No remote doomsday functionality - Increase fuel cost to somewhere around 5-10Billion - Increase recharge time to 24 hours This would make the weapon more of a tactical option to be deployed only when the situation demands it, rather than the 'doomsday as many and as often as you can' approach we currently see in use. While having a Titan jump in and nuke your fleet is fun the first time, when it happens every time you try and have a fight it get olds real quick. The only way to contribute to alliance level combat these days is to fly a capital ship. You should not have to have over 20Mil SP to take part in alliance level combat! this is the stupidest solution in this entire thread In your way a titan is a throwaway smartbomb since you will lose it everytime you use your doomsday device. Titan is fine in its intended role. Why make a 120bill ship useless? Just because a titan killed you once doesn't mean it should be downgraded to an overpriced smartbombing raven. Titans are fine as it is. They've been killed before, a couple of dreadnaughts and 5 dictors and your titan will be dead. It's fine as it is. (As it is, most motherships actually have a more powerful tank then a titan anyway)
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.02 17:48:00 - [172] I'm going with remove remote DDD and Titans will be fine. Forcing them onto the battlefield allows a few seconds more warning to warp out and prevents sitting in a POS and firing of DDD. Risk versus reward comes back in to play. sgb
Spy4Hire	Posted - 2007.05.02 18:16:00 - [173] Yeah, it's funny. CCP introduced the Big Daddy of battleboats, gave it the ultimate blob-buster... ... but made the only way to even come close to killing it is with tada a BLOB! And the hope that some poor sod logs out or crashes due to the blob induced lag and their poor, defenseless Titan is just so much the sitting duck. Keep the DD, but put more restrictions on the use of the thing.
The Economist	Posted - 2007.05.02 18:44:00 - [174] Edited by: The Economist on 02/05/2007 18:41:38 DD Counter: Warp out. It doesn't activate instantly. You have more than enough warning to any ship out including bs. The downtime between firings can also be used to neutralise the threat by baiting the titan into dd'ing nothing then you have lots of dd free time to fight. To the ppl saying titans kill fleet combat, no-one engage when there are titans around, when both sides have titans no-one fights etc etc......come down south. [Oh and losing a vaga to a dd.....]
Kyodai Koga Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.05.02 21:15:00 - [175] /signed with the OP. /agree also with stelteck on first page, when Titans are in play, you hide, and hiding isn't fun. I'm personally convinced that only those who put winning above all other goals (like having fun, mind you) are ok with the way Titans are actually. To those that thinks I could be biaised: in fact I find even more boring to fight alongside a Titan than against it (it's either stealing or scaring my targets, sigh). If Titans stay the way they are, the only thing I could hope is that when every alliance in play will have one, players will agree not to use them anymore and get back to the good ol' days where I enjoyed fleet fighting (well, apart from the lag, but that's another topic). Titans should be logistic and support ships, not pwnmobiles. They are a fantastic concept and seeing so much coordinated efforts from a player community to acquire one in a mmorpg is really great but, the way they have been implemented, they aren't balanced imho and need to be deeply modified, because they aren't bringing more fun to the game, they are in fact creating more legitimate complains from the playerbase. Also and to finish this post: the argument of the isk/time cost isn't relevant in the context of a game, where inflation is crawling because anyone can create wealth from nothing. Pushing this reflection will end up with situations where a group of people can ruin the game of other players because they've put sufficient time in it. I say no Sir, it's not the way you lead what remains a game
Poke InTheEye Anti-BoB Flash Mob	Posted - 2007.05.02 21:45:00 - [176] Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: kliop how about making the dd's different...not doing damage but still helping a lot the fleet like for example the caldari will break lock of everything for 3-5 mins...or somehow distract the sensors and thus reducing locking range etc... the minmatar will make them unable to move...or at greatly reduced speeds... or not able to warp and so on... how long each effect will last is to be decided... that way the titan will NEED the support fleet to finish of the oponents it wont be as strong as now but still it will be very usefull i think Intresting. So a Amarr Titan would fire off a NOS bomb, emptying their cap. A Caldari one would ECM bomb the lot of them, breaking all their locks. A Gallente one would probebly dampen them down for a short period of time, and the Minmatar one would just target paint them all...... I think it would be more fitting if the amarr titan would fire off a bomb that made everyone's weapons only de EM damage. NO BOB!!!!
Jordan Musgrat Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.02 22:24:00 - [177] Remove the remote DD and give it access to the bombs you will eventually give stealth bombers. Make it good at going into battles head on- right now it's best at sitting at a pos and one-clicking hostile fleets. (When again are stealth bombers going to become useful?) Either that, or make the DD less powerful. 25k damage still instapops most stuff, and gives some BS a reasonable chance of surviving. The most powerful ship in the game should not be relegated to sitting at poses, making jump portals, and remote-pwning fleets. Also, when is the last time a titan used capital weapons? That needs to change. ----------- Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0...
Alexander Knott Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.02 23:27:00 - [178] Maybe give the DD an (enormous) explosion radius like missiles? Full damage to capitals on down to almost no damage to small craft. Or just remove the thing -- it's not a fun game mechanic and the jump bridge alone more than justifies the expense of the Titan (jump bridge means you never have to jump into a hostile gate camp). ----- "I like to loot, especially going to the can of the battleship, sometimes there is a surprise inside, sometimes there is only carp..."
Tassill Minmatar GREY COUNCIL Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.03 03:43:00 - [179] Edited by: Tassill on 03/05/2007 03:40:25 I have seen a lot of post's in this thread that say "well if u can afford a 100 bil ship then u should be able to pwn any thing" but that just doesnt make sence. Eg 2 bil isk faction bs vs 2 bil worth of intys... intys win or 10 bil isk faction fitted carrier vs 10 bil worth of bs... bs win 50 bil isk mom vs 50 bil of bs ... bs win now the titan 100 bil + titan vs 100-200-300 bil worth of bs.. titan jumps in dd's.... kills many of them or maby if he is lucky all of them then jumps out. Or if he is afraid of the alpha strike, he sends in cov ops with cyno gen 300 km from the fleet pops cyno and remote dd's. its just rediculus
Kyodai Koga Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.05.03 12:55:00 - [180] @Tassil And that's not taking in consideration the human resource question, ie: 1 player in a Titan can own or at least hamper the capacity to play of hundreds of players in smaller ships. 1 > hundreds (and i'm not talking about hundreds of noobships, mind you, but a full fleet of t2 fitted ships), where's the balance and the logic with this kind of situation in a game ? Also, hiding this ship is too easy, logoffsky and hiding it in POSes come to mind. If the DD remains the same, make it generate a 1 hour aggression timer so it doesn't disappear if the pilot logoff, and don't let it enter forcefields too for one hour, maybe then could we try to catch it, and even in this case it could still jump out thank to its uber cap regen... I think CCP clearly knows there's a problem with Titans, they're just too afraid of the complains that will follow from biggest alliances (which are actually more than happy to own such ships) if they happen to nerf it the way it needs to be.

Tassill Minmatar GREY COUNCIL Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.03 14:59:00 - [181] Originally by: Kyodai Koga @Tassil And that's not taking in consideration the human resource question, ie: 1 player in a Titan can own or at least hamper the capacity to play of hundreds of players in smaller ships. 1 > hundreds (and i'm not talking about hundreds of noobships, mind you, but a full fleet of t2 fitted ships), where's the balance and the logic with this kind of situation in a game ? Also, hiding this ship is too easy, logoffsky and hiding it in POSes come to mind. If the DD remains the same, make it generate a 1 hour aggression timer so it doesn't disappear if the pilot logoff, and don't let it enter forcefields too for one hour, maybe then could we try to catch it, and even in this case it could still jump out thank to its uber cap regen... I think CCP clearly knows there's a problem with Titans, they're just too afraid of the complains that will follow from biggest alliances (which are actually more than happy to own such ships) if they happen to nerf it the way it needs to be. I aggree with you 100% their Kyodai. its one thing to come with some iskies and buy your alliance a nice ship and then put an active and capable pilot in it.. but its sooo much harder to organise a large fleet that is capable of achieving anything vs's an oponent who owns such a ship. IMO the man hours and effort that go into building a titan pale in comparison to the hours required to feed the monster that is a conventional fleet pvp.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.05.03 15:27:00 - [182] noone on earth however would ask for the nerf of the titan if they had one theirselves, so imho it's not a viable thread. Not even Mother Theresa would ask for a nerf if she had a titan
Ayumi Kuribayashi	Posted - 2007.05.03 16:35:00 - [183] These are my thoughts regarding the matter: To say that the solution to this problem is to fly in smaller groups is somewhat absurd given the nature of the game and the way PvP is carried out at this point. If you wanted to make this argument, you would definitely have to say that changes must be made to the fundamental mechanics of in-game sovereignty to fit the new standard fleet size. Another popular argument seems to be the sheer cost of the Titan and while it is a good point, I think someone else on the thread mentioned that no matter the cost, you should not be able to buy invincibility or let's just call it "near invincibility" since Titans can potentially be killed in the right circumstances. Many people feel that a Titan's ability to use its DD through a cyno is absurd. I am also of this opinion and I think it's somewhat of a general consensus at this point that this feature is imbalanced. If you are going to be killing something, there should be some sort of potential threat to you. Anything otherwise represents a serious imbalance in the game. CCP should remove this feature and require a Titan to present itself on the battlefield directly if it is to use its DD against enemies. Many people are arguing that the Titan's DD doesn't do that much damage considering the cost of the ship itself. Granted, while a 50-Dread fleet will outdamage a Titan on a single target volley for volley, consider the effect of the DD weapon across the entire potential battlefield. You'll quickly see that the damage potential far outweighs in a single shot what could potentially be done by 50 Dreads and on top of this, the Titan doesn't need to target lock either. Now I don't know exactly how a Titan's damage works, but perhaps the DD weapon would be a bit more balanced if it worked along the lines of splash damage from an explosion. I think the DD device should actually deal more damage than it does right now in the area directly surrounding the Titan and gradually deal less and less damage as the weapon affects ships at a further distance so that by the time you are about 250km from the Titan, it would only deal enough damage to kill a T1 frigate and bring a T1 cruiser into structure or barely kill it. You could divide the damage radius into 5 or 6 different distance ranges or something. Essentially, this nullifies the Titan's ability to completely decimate a fleet, but at the same time it gives the DD weapon a function in putting damage across the entire enemy fleet and weakening them for your own fleet to engage. Perhaps to increase the power somewhat, add on certain EW effects in conjunction with damage. Essentially then, the Titan becomes not a destroyer of fleets, but a valuable tool in crippling enemy fleets. While the combined damage across the entire enemy fleet would still be substantial, by taking away the Titan's ability to single handedly decimate it increases its vulnerability since there will likely be plenty of ships left it the wake to bring it down if its alone. I also agree with creating an increased lagtime between DD and a potential cyno in order to allow an enemy fleet to capitalize on an opportunity to take it down. Titans are fine as ships, what needs to be tweaked is their function. instead of making them stand-alone "I Win" buttons, CCP should work to incorporate them into fleets and give them viable and reasonable roles.
Donathan Slade Kay Korporation Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.05.03 17:06:00 - [184] I personally think that the DD is a little wee bit over powered. Think about the costs... 2.5 Mill in resources. 1 hour cool down - But this doesn't really matter to soembody who can pop ever ship smaller than a bb in a click.. and if you can afford a 100 billion ship.. whats a few million anyway? OVERPOWERED!!! And fleets run in fear just when a titan enters a system. Also, this ship only benefits fleets who have been playing since near the start of the game. The downside, good luck getting out of your titan and not allowing a corp member to steal it. From what I'm told, they can't jump themselves, they can't dock, and that go billions of isk.
Kyodai Koga Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.05.03 23:32:00 - [185] Originally by: Deathbarrage noone on earth however would ask for the nerf of the titan if they had one theirselves, so imho it's not a viable thread. Not even Mother Theresa would ask for a nerf if she had a titan I already said I've been involved in battles where I had a Titan on my side, and hell, it's even worse in terms of fun to have it with you because it either steals your targets or make them hide in POS/station. Imho, the only people who could honestly support the Titans are those that want to win at all cost, and I don't. It's like letting people use a grenade launcher in a football game: sure you'll win, but will I use one too ? Nope sorry, it's not what I consider fair and not what I think to be in line with the basic rules of the game. This Titan question is right in line with exploit and lame tactics problems in this game. It's getting ridiculous that players reach and support such extremities and broken game mecanics only to win, letting apart the main goal of a game which is to play it and have fun from it together.
Kamen SRBI Circle 0f Two	Posted - 2007.05.04 00:28:00 - [186] Nerf Titans, I'd say... Eve is a unique MMO, where unlike other MMO's even the "level 1 player" counts and there's not much segregation between rich and poor. The Carriers and Dreads have certain roles which have their place, but Titans are IMO spoiling the game due to their enormous power to wipe out fleets with no risk added. What happened to the rock-paper-scissors when Titans are in question?
Benglada Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.04 00:32:00 - [187] Edited by: Benglada on 04/05/2007 00:27:48 titans should be able to go in siege mode and use those sexy 6 cap guns tbh. --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends. Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected]) Sig By Ortos
Helen STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.04 00:33:00 - [188] Originally by: Kamen What happened to the rock-paper-scissors when Titans are in question? It died in horrendous lag due to being doomsday'd.
Beowulf Scheafer Gallente Hell Hounds	Posted - 2007.05.04 01:05:00 - [189] Edited by: Beowulf Scheafer on 04/05/2007 01:12:12 even tho i have not died yet to a DD, i think the DD is a problem. unfortunately one that is not easy solved. of course it is annyoing to spend hours or even days to set up a fleet and then get blasted in seconds (minutes because of lag???), but tbh i don't think this was beeing made to disencourage people to blob. creating a ship only killable in vast amounts of smaller ships for preventing vast amounts of ships beeing formed up just sounds stupid, and i don't think this was the intention of CCP on a titan. but, as it is, a titan is the largest form of artillery this game has, mainly because of the ability to launch it via cyno in another grid the titan itself is not in. of course the riskvsreward system has to give a 100bil+ ship a huge advantage over others, but i don't see the point taking the risk nearly completly off. now people mentioned the DD is just too overpowered and should be removed. to all you guys: this is definately not an option! no other ship has that high pre-requirements, both skill- and isk-wise. as a titan has no option to use a siegemode or something like that, its offensive capabilities are comparativly weak, especially considering thoose high prerequirements. so taking out the dd will just take the role of a titan off, making in more or less useless. now you could mention that it still can move fleets around, and thats basically right. but tell a titan pilot he has trained months, maybe year(s), just for beeing the mobile busstation for his m8's... on the other hand, there are alliances just not able to have a titan, maybe because of the lack for pilots, or for not having such a large infrastructure to build and maintain one. for thoose (like we are) a trespassing titan is something that is just not handable. again, for sure there has to be an advantage spending all that money and time. i have read it here before, and i personally think it is a reasonable solution, i would say to leave titans as they are, just take the hugest of the huge the option to be a strategic artillery, means force a titan to show up itself when it wants to blast a fleet off. by that the large alliances have to concider IF they use a DD, or if the risk of loosing the titan is just to large for not knowing where the other half of the foreign fleet is (forcing people to spread the large blob in at least 2 smaller ones is a positive side-effect of this in my oppinion). it will still be a hard task to kill such a behemoth, but ways easier than tracking a titan down that jumps in a ss-position, give everybody a run for their live, and just jump back out. but then again only my 2 cents...
Jordan Musgrat Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.04 03:23:00 - [190] I hope CCP is reading this. From what I can see, we all agree that the titan needs to be changed... Of course there will always be complaints as long as people are being DDed, but I think we all know that titans will only become more numerous, and that in their current state they are simply too powerful. Keeping in mind game mechanics, I don't think that the idea of splash damage is viable in its current state, so the best option is to simply remove remote DD. If you need to make the DD less powerful, then give it more of a reason to use capital weapons. Basically, make it useful on the field, not at a pos. ----------- Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0...

Kyodai Koga Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.05.04 12:06:00 - [191] I can't understand people who says that without the DD the Titan would not be worth the cost. It brings huge bonuses to a fleet from the ship itself, can be a great logistic support and on top of that you can jump portal. On its own this feature justify the cost of the ship, being able to bypass the choke points in a war is a tremendous advantage, bringing the fight where you want it, in the heart of the enemy position. DD isn't adapted to the game as it stands now, remove it completely and replace it with more fighting/supporting capacity in regular fleet combat so to use 100% of the ship you need to risk it into direct combat.
Alpha Prime Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.04 12:28:00 - [192] Edited by: Alpha Prime on 04/05/2007 12:28:36 Originally by: Kyodai Koga DD isn't adapted to the game as it stands now, remove it completely and replace it with more fighting/supporting capacity in regular fleet combat so to use 100% of the ship you need to risk it into direct combat. If ppl didnt bring 2-400 to fight 100, then ppl wouldnt need to use DD to even the numbers. When you attack 100 pilots with 200, you¦re asking for a DD. And i dont give a **** if you got lesser skillpoints and therefor need more ppl. /Edit: Imo, a titan should only be able to fire a DD while being there itself. DDs should not be usable through cynos. Bob farted, ASCN burped. And then there was a Nodecrash
Caffeine Junkie Caldari Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.05.04 13:50:00 - [193] Originally by: goodby4u The DD weapon was implamented to decrease blobs...I think its fair to have a ship that costs 100bil+be very...very...powerfull. Yes it should be, but there should also be a defence against it other than turning tail and running. ___________________
Kyodai Koga Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.05.04 15:14:00 - [194] Quote: If ppl didnt bring 2-400 to fight 100, then ppl wouldnt need to use DD to even the numbers. When you attack 100 pilots with 200, you¦re asking for a DD. And i dont give a **** if you got lesser skillpoints and therefor need more ppl. Would be true in a perfect world. Unfortunately, as it stands now, Titans are supporting big alliances which dispose of huge fleets, and don't hesitate to use the DD on smaller fleet to increase the gap even more. Out of the gameplay question, Titans are increasing the dynamic that tend to make the geopolitic of the game boring with the emergence of huge immovable blocks, with smaller alliances or corp left with joining one of these blocks or staying in empire. EvE need more nerves, more movement, more possibility for challengers to emerge and less POS spamming/camping. Titans aren't a step in the good direction, far from it imho.
Roan Morek	Posted - 2007.05.04 20:46:00 - [195] Originally by: Alpha Prime If ppl didnt bring 2-400 to fight 100, then ppl wouldnt need to use DD to even the numbers. When you attack 100 pilots with 200, you¦re asking for a DD. And i dont give a ** if you got lesser skillpoints and therefor need more ppl. The problem though, is the cost/benifit to engaging in combat vs DDing the enemy fleet away. If you can spend a few mil in fuel and a disposable cyno ship to wipe out an enemy fleet, why even risk battleships? Just DD everything you come across then send in the battleships to mop up. And it's not like the titan itself is in much risk, as it can cyno out within minutes of wiping out the enemy fleet. I'd like to see DD have an actual limited range rather than hitting the entire grid, and none of this firing through cyno bull**. If it functioned like some kind of super smart bomb, while at the same time efforts were made to adress the issues with the cap recharge of supercaps...
Jacob Holland Gallente FIRMA	Posted - 2007.05.05 14:33:00 - [196] The concept of the titan as a blob reducer was flawed from the beginning, their value requires that they be protected. The fact that a titan effectively makes any system secure and makes any system vulnerable with the only counter being another titan makes them unbalanced. The fights I've had where Titans have been (or have had the potential to be) fielded have been dominated by the titan or its threat - all very well but... When a fleet of T2 snipers 50 strong are set-up off the gate the option to jump in in small gangs is removed, with 'dictors or a large bubble to lock the gate down further even the option to jump in interceptors to get a sling on the snipers isn't possible. All that is left is to jump in snipers of your own in superior numbers or jump in even more ships mob handed and attempt to Leroy out of the camp. Add a single cyno frig with a titan in system or jump range and even that is impossible. It is normal for the DDD to be deployed on the far side of the gate from the snipers AFAIK - doing full damage to the jumpers but not effecting the friendly forces in the least. Add a few carriers with assigned fighters, loose drones from the snipers and the grid will take so long to load for the attacking forces that most won't even see what put them in the clone vat. Victory belongs to the side which brings the right force to bear first - in the case of an intermediate BS fleet with a Titan in support then the right force will, most likely, crash the node. -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
Zarrika Khan Caldari No Quarter. Academy	Posted - 2007.05.05 18:21:00 - [197] Originally by: Dracu1a Some good points here. Some bad ones. Heres what I say: Lots of people dont like cyno-dd. In its current state I dont either. But I think (someone mentioned it in the last page) that cyno-dd's should remain, BUT the damage should be vastly reduced allowing it only to really affect t1 cruisers and below, while still damaging some of the higher end ships. The cost to do cyno-dd should also be increased a ton. They still COULD have a place, but in their current state, no plz change. If the titan decides to use its DD on an enemy fleet that is currently pounding him, he should be able to use it for MAX damage, but also have his cap gimped significantly. This would make him havea VERY viable last stand (possibly even increase DD damage when used in this instance) but still be hurting from its cap reduction (aka. not able to immediately jump out) There should be special capital sized turrets that can fire relatively quick and have good tracking/range so it can still be of use during battle, causing severe dmg to battleship sized ships. Think of it somewhat as modified dread weapons. I think they should also have a much higher multiplier for gang mods. Meaning if it decides to play the support role (Warefare links in highslots instead of guns) the support it throws out should be MUCH greater than those of Command Ships. Thoughts? Ok, sure I have never faced a Titan or DDD in game however just reading all this and hearing about what they are capable of is enough to get a decent idea... 1. Cyno DDD should not do as much as when the Titan DDD's up close a personal. 2. Specific Capital weapons that the Titan gets a CPU reduction bonus (like Dreads get for Siege Modules) so they can use something else besides the ultimate smartbomb and serve another purpose in Fleet/POS capital warfare. Like you said, faster rate of fire or Damage bonus perhaps but only for Titans. 3. The option of playing the support role with serious bonus increases that out perform command ships is a great idea. I think that if someone skills for a Titan and the alliance has made the effort for the ship it should be able to do more than just nuke everything by proxy. DDD's need to be 'balanced' (TM), Titan needs to have other options or roles available to it so that skilling for one gives the pilot something more to do that, Cyno, Nuke, Cyno Out, check kill mails, post kill mails...
Ansuru Starlancer The Phoenix Rising Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.06 01:06:00 - [198] It costs a good bit to press that button to pop your ship. He's likely killing a few friendlies, too. Don't want to be DDed? Don't blob a Titan. Besides, you have time to kill their cyno ship and get out. To your last thought...about it being a "get rid of lag now" button? Yeah...CCP has stated time and again that the Titan is there to discourage blobs...laggy blobs that nobody likes anyway. omg people! Stop blobbing! These 1000 person fleets cramming into a system battles are ridiculous...that many pilots could put the POSes of an entire region into reinforced if they split up and struck separately, with the defenders never really sure where the next blow will land. Especially when a recon slipping through your camp could land a jump bridge right behind you at any moment...
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.05.06 11:27:00 - [199] well titan warps in, DD, every dictor in sight pops, titan jumps out
Glarion Garnier Solar Wind	Posted - 2007.05.06 17:11:00 - [200] Originally by: Kamikaaazi nerf the DD but add other options against blobbing. Limit chars less than 1 year to high sec. Chars less than 2 years to low sec. If there are 100 ppl in system start kicking ppl with less skillpoints so in the end only top100 can be in the same system. Blob of 400 t1 crapship pilots shouldnt kill (crash the server) 100 man high end t2 fitted fleet. Where does this idea come from can you explain your self. Why do you feel the way you feel. Start talking buddy. Or no one takes you seriously.

Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.06 17:29:00 - [201] Edited by: Wrayeth on 06/05/2007 17:25:47 Every time I see this thread, I just look at the title, shake my head, and continue on. Today, since this darned thing keeps getting bumped, I just need to point out what annoys me about it. Oddly enough, it's not the content which bothers me (I think titans need some serious nerfing, atm, but that's just my opinion). No--what bothers me is the title of the thread: "Titans: the VOTE". The VOTE? WTF? AFAIK, CCP hasn't become a democracy where the players can get together and vote for changes to the game (probably a good thing, since only a small percentage of the players read the forums, thus making the results of any voting here a non-representative sample). I could see a "poll" or a "petition", but a "vote" just makes me think the OP has been watching too much "reality" television. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Glarion Garnier Solar Wind	Posted - 2007.05.06 17:32:00 - [202] Edited by: Glarion Garnier on 06/05/2007 17:29:33 Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 06/05/2007 17:25:47 Every time I see this thread, I just look at the title, shake my head, and continue on. Today, since this darned thing keeps getting bumped, I just need to point out what annoys me about it. Oddly enough, it's not the content which bothers me (I think titans need some serious nerfing, atm, but that's just my opinion). No--what bothers me is the title of the thread: "Titans: the VOTE". The VOTE? WTF? AFAIK, CCP hasn't become a democracy where the players can get together and vote for changes to the game (probably a good thing, since only a small percentage of the players read the forums, thus making the results of any voting here a non-representative sample). I could see a "poll" or a "petition", but a "vote" just makes me think the OP has been watching too much "reality" television. I agree with your points. Then again the aspect of cyno + DD still remains. I havent been blown away by DD but I can sense the immense "imballance" it is .. just like cruise kestrels were in their time. So in a sence what Im saying is that this thread is about a subject that needs considering by the devs. and hence the thread needs to stay alive.
Nonym Ous	Posted - 2007.05.06 19:25:00 - [203] I would consider making some or all of the following changes: 1) Have the damage done by the DDD drop off with the square of the distance from the titan. If you're twice as far away, it does a quarter of the damage. 2) Vastly increase the cost of using the DDD, ensuring that it would only be used in extreme situations 3) Change the mechanics of the DDD so that using it actually makes the Titan vulnerable. 4) Change the mechanics of the Jump Bridge so that the titan can use its own jump bridge, and that it has to do that to travel between systems (ie, it can only travel through jump bridges and cannot cyno out). Also make it so that when activated, it essentially acts like a temporary (say 10-minute long) stargate that both alliances can use, and that can be activated from either side.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.06 20:19:00 - [204] Edited by: Kerfira on 06/05/2007 20:15:24 I think the main problem with threads like these are that the posters generally fall into 3 different groups: 1. The constructionists. The ones posting sensible tweaks to titans, like the removal of cyno-DD's, something which I think most people agree on. 2. The revisionists. The ones suggesting a complete change of Titans into something they have never been protrayed as. Like the ones turning them into non-offensive logistics platforms. 3. The abolitionists. Those that don't want titans in the game at all (usually because they don't have one), and propose changes that are so ridiculous that they'll make Titans completely worthless. People from #2 or #3 doesn't really contribute with anything useful to the discussion, but are unfortunately in the majority.... Titans are not going to go away, and unless CCP has completely changed their nature, they're not going to change into something completely different either. General advice: Stop whining!
zacuis Darkest Knights	Posted - 2007.05.06 20:52:00 - [205] i havent read this whole thread i admit but i totally agree that dd`s need to be removed. after spending many many hours stuck at a pos with 400 guys wanting to fight each other but neither side willing to do so as both sides had a titan insystem i believe ccp has made a momumental mistake. the dd has lead to less and less actual fighting for the majority of the people in the fleet, i admit its a great feeling to read your allince titan wiped out 100 hostile ships but would be much better had i actually got to help kill them. plz ccp if u only fix one thing this year plz make it dd`s. dont nerf them dont change them REMOVE THEM !!!
San Rintu	Posted - 2007.05.07 13:37:00 - [206] I have a couple of ideas to balance the Titan. Both a separate before anyone asks. 1) I believe that if the Titan was implemented to be an anti blob weapon, then that's what CCP need to change it to. Rather than the DD simply performing a system wipe radially, the DD should be targeted to detonate in a certain area with a far smaller yield. This way it could still be an anti blob weapon without the horrible 'beard' of cyno in DD cyno out and there being a pungent smell of burning pod system wide. I'm a fan of what has been said before about giving each race Titan some kind of tide turner such as the ECM, Neutralisers, web/scram and so on. 2) If people still like the blob warfare then maybe convert the Titan into a 'Death Star' type ship. It can simply warp in target a single ship and is able to destroy pretty much any ship in the battle with one super weapon...not all of them. This would of course be accompanied with a recharge time of several minutes. Being able to take out key ships in an engagement could make the Titan highly advantageous as it could take out an MS or Dread with a single shot and allow the rest of the fleet to concentrate on smaller targets.


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