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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3313
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 19:39:32 -
[541] - Quote
Miz is disappointed; must be a day ending in "Y."
Other thoughts? |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
1565
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 19:43:43 -
[542] - Quote
Yes, do keep deflecting reasonable concerns with knee-jerk snark. That makes it look less stupid, I'm sure.
Any thoughts on how to prevent any potential speck build-up in the clone from being harvested by corpse collectors or are we just assuming no one will be doing anything but station spinning for the foreseeable future? |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3313
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 20:00:04 -
[543] - Quote
Actually even one speck would be a problem, never mind buildup.
It looks like the proposal is to have each pod carrying three charges of suspended antimatter. They're ... not big, but big enough.
If they decide we're a problem or the pod gets breached ... well. They're linked to the same protocols as the medical burn scanner (which isn't here). Pod breach means a kind of bright flash and a small expanding cloud of exotic plasma instead of a clone jump.
And, backup clone activates. |
Persephone Alleile
Tartarus Covert Operations
376
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 20:01:21 -
[544] - Quote
Who's footing the bill for these specialized pods and the teams of medical experts that will be monitoring the readings around the clock? The Society?
What happens when a potentially infected capsuleer hits a bubble camp? |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
1566
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 20:13:36 -
[545] - Quote
Much better. Needlessly risky (just have a quarantine, it's not exactly rocket surgery), untested, lacking good safeguards and unnecessary, but better than the initial offering.
Lacking quite a bit of information though. Who's 'they', what kind of oversight are we talking about, by who and so on and so forth? How quickly can the wetgraver hack and disable the antimatter charges and sell their corpse to the highest bidder? Etc. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3164
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 20:22:33 -
[546] - Quote
I dunno. ifGÇöand this is an ifGÇöwhat Aria's been shown is legitimately purpose-built pods for this situationGÇöand I can't imagine someone isn't looking to sell exactly that kind of design to CONCORD, if they haven't alreadyGÇöthen I'd have to imagine there's a catastrophic annihilation safeguard. I mean, what if the scanners detect speck buildup, despite the treatment?
If it was me coming up with this design (and I fully admit, it's not, so nobody has to worry about the pod cutting your hair and ripping your right arm off when you go to clean some rust), I'd be replacing the burn-scanner with a series of magnetic bottles containing roughly 200 kg of anitmatter, spread around the pod.
Of course... the resulting explosion from detonating the pod...
You know what? I think a 4-kilometer vaporization radius should be ok. Let's go with half a gram of anti-matter.
I mean, yeah, I'd go with 200kg of the stuff, but I like explosions. I've also been told I get a little excessive, sometimes. I think someone trying to get these things through safety inspection... they could probably get away with half a gram as a reasonable precaution against the detection of Kyonoke in the pod, or the unexpected breach of the pod.
Gotta admit, 'you'll blow up your whole goddamned hangar' is also a pretty good way to keep the egger in the pod for a week or two, too. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3314
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 20:28:19 -
[547] - Quote
Who's footing the bill: don't know.
Who's usually footing the bill for pods: ... also, don't know. Isn't that a little strange?
I'd guess it's whoever is usually providing the ISK to keep our warrior caste armed and active. |
DocHolliday ii
Horn and Brothers Ndrangheta.
9
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 00:19:50 -
[548] - Quote
ANALYSIS OF KYONOKE ANTIDOTE FUELS CALLS FOR INVESTIGATION AFTER WIDESPREAD TREATMENT BEGINS
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/analysis-of-kyonoke-antidote-fuels-calls-for-investigation-after-widespread-treatment-begins/
breaking news |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
1567
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:07:39 -
[549] - Quote
... still an antidote and apparently exposing Kyonoke to vacuum... kills it?
... really?
Also the "antidote" is apparently been rendered airborne. The "antidote" that has been previously described as uncomfortably invasive, and the platform is going to be de-orbited and disintegrated in the atmosphere. Again, after being exposed to vacuum, as this apparently kills Kyonoke now.
The aforementioned cure being a "structured bio-speck that acts as a counter for the Kyonoke speck, rendering it inert." concludes this delightful crap sandwich of a report that in one fell swoop contradicts roughly half a dozen previous ones if not more.
tl;dr: It's a speck, but apparently with genes, so it's more like a virus/bacterium/whatever and it now it's suddenly vulnerable to vacuum and the "cure" is an antidote that is also a "bio-speck" which by the way has been rendered airborne and mass produced. Still not tested in any satisfactory manner for that matter, and I doubt it'll be long before this gets pumped into other stations as well to quell any Kyonoke panic among the denizens.
No really, is it really just me? New Eden can't possibly have been this stupid all along.
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Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
681
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:14:38 -
[550] - Quote
If your statements were more constructive in nature we just might've listened to them.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
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Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2164
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:21:52 -
[551] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:... still an antidote and apparently exposing Kyonoke to vacuum... kills it?
... really?
Also the "antidote" is apparently been rendered airborne. The "antidote" that has been previously described as uncomfortably invasive, and the platform is going to be de-orbited and disintegrated in the atmosphere. Again, after being exposed to vacuum, as this apparently kills Kyonoke now.
The aforementioned cure being a "structured bio-speck that acts as a counter for the Kyonoke speck, rendering it inert." concludes this delightful crap sandwich of a report that in one fell swoop contradicts roughly half a dozen previous ones if not more.
tl;dr: It's a speck, but apparently with genes, so it's more like a virus/bacterium/whatever and it now it's suddenly vulnerable to vacuum and the "cure" is an antidote that is also a "bio-speck" which by the way has been rendered airborne and mass produced. Still not tested in any satisfactory manner for that matter, and I doubt it'll be long before this gets pumped into other stations as well to quell any Kyonoke panic among the denizens.
No really, is it really just me? New Eden can't possibly have been this stupid all along.
What if it's the 'journalist' who is stupid?
Much of the 'reporting' I am seeing thus far gave me the impression that the press had been rushing out the news without going through the editor and without doing many of the proper research to ensure accuracy.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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James Syagrius
Reclamation
1658
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:27:27 -
[552] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:... still an antidote and apparently exposing Kyonoke to vacuum... kills it? ... really?
Also the "antidote" is apparently been rendered airborne. The "antidote" that has been previously described as uncomfortably invasive, and the platform is going to be de-orbited and disintegrated in the atmosphere. Again, after being exposed to vacuum, as this apparently kills Kyonoke now.
The aforementioned cure being a "structured bio-speck that acts as a counter for the Kyonoke speck, rendering it inert." concludes this delightful crap sandwich of a report that in one fell swoop contradicts roughly half a dozen previous ones if not more.
tl;dr: It's a speck, but apparently with genes, so it's more like a virus/bacterium/whatever and it now it's suddenly vulnerable to vacuum and the "cure" is an antidote that is also a "bio-speck" which by the way has been rendered airborne and mass produced. Still not tested in any satisfactory manner for that matter, and I doubt it'll be long before this gets pumped into other stations as well to quell any Kyonoke panic among the denizens.
No really, is it really just me? New Eden can't possibly have been this stupid all along.
No it is not just you Madame. But who are we to question their 'absolute truth'.
Jaret Victorian wrote:If your statements were more constructive in nature we just might've listened to them. Of course, after all you are only relevant if you agree....
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3317
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:34:08 -
[553] - Quote
It sounds like people treated with Agent 0410 are being treated as unambiguously cured and safe to transport out of quarantine. Maybe those schematics are just someone's hopeful project rather than a real thing.
I should send out some queries.... |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
1569
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:35:48 -
[554] - Quote
If anyone reading this board had even the slightest power to do anything about this, that would probably have mattered more. People who have made efforts to contribute to this situation have been outright blocked from doing so with no explanation for why or how, and there is quite literally nothing to be constructive about.
There is no path open towards being constructive when you're blocked from it, so all that remains is being a spectator, reacting to the information we're given. Even if you somehow could expect spectator commentary to be constructive, it's doubly impossible when the information we're given is wholly unreliable and demonstrably self-contradictory and unreliable.
Which bits can be considered to be true? Which bits are falsehoods, intentionally or not? There's blatant incompetence on display, but there's no way to tell for sure where. Is it the reporters completely butchering the information they are given? Is it their sources? If so, which of their sources and which parts?
If previous reports can't be trusted because these new ones contradict them, what's the veracity of these reports?
The only constructive thing I can do at this point, partly because the powers that be decided to block some people from contributing while others got access - through a selection process I have no information on either, but certainly wasn't determined on competency, interest or efforts made in regards to this crisis -, is sift through this wreck field of a media feed and point out the parts that don't make sense. The parts that contradict each other. The parts that may or may not be false or untrustworthy.
Our cluster, our people were and are at risk here and this right here? It's not exactly inspiring confidence in how this threat to them is being handled, and that's worth talking about.
I will never tie anyone down and force them to listen to me, be it you capsuleers or the baseliners reading these boards. That does not mean I can't or even shouldn't voice these concerns. Kyonoke is one thing, but these reports and these proceedings are frankly worse nightmare fuel. |
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
682
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:36:04 -
[555] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:Jaret Victorian wrote:If your statements were more constructive in nature we just might've listened to them. Of course, after all you are only relevant if you agree.... I didn't say that, but after reviewing the last 6 or so pages of this thread all I got was a headache. If you don't like how things are - organize, do something. Start with reviewing all available information, writing it on board, picking out things you consider out of place, start asking questions - constructively. Apply science. If you don't have the facilities - talk to relevant people, interview, record, publish. Spread the word, attract attention, drive it. Get people to follow you, lead them to your goal.
Anger will only give you so many patient responses, after that you will get nothing or anger in return.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
1569
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:47:53 -
[556] - Quote
This is the board. The things that are out of place have been pointed out and questioned. 'Applying science' either requires data to work with or if you're simply talking about the method, reliable information. I personally funded and secured facilities for scientific pursuits, medical research and more for that matter, and enlisted both the science crews and capsuleers I employ and opened it up to anyone else seeking such facilities. Oh and I spread the word about that as well.
If this is insufficient, I wonder what exactly what you would consider sufficient to be able to speak on this subject? |
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
684
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:55:43 -
[557] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:This is the board. The things that are out of place have been pointed out and questioned. 'Applying science' either requires data to work with or if you're simply talking about the method, reliable information. I personally funded and secured facilities for scientific pursuits, medical research and more for that matter, and enlisted both the science crews and capsuleers I employ and opened it up to anyone else seeking such facilities. Oh and I spread the word about that as well.
If this is insufficient, I wonder what exactly what you would consider sufficient to be able to speak on this subject? Can you point me to this post of yours where you did all the things above? If you can, I will read it consult with my friend biochemist, if she has time for me. Otherwise, I'm not beating the air like the last couple of pages, I'm out, because for all I know we just saved these millions. If not, well, that is why the so much popular "glass it" option is still on the table.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
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Hetu Hegirin
Otherwhere Circle
117
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:57:07 -
[558] - Quote
I seem to recall the ravings of a man on a galnet social platform that the Drifters would cure the Kyonoke outbreak. Now that there is confirmation of Sisters involvement, it doesn't sound quite as lunatic. On the other hand...
In some respects this is almost in line with what I expected from he established powers, but with each successive press release, more questions are raised than answered, and the contradictions don't instill confidence in any impending resolutions. If I were more paranoid, I might think a deliberate 'muddying of the waters' is at play.
There is a good deal to digest in this, certainly not all of it substantive, but I hope more data is to come. Perhaps more structured discussions amongst dedicated parties would yield some truth.
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Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2164
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:58:34 -
[559] - Quote
Jaret Victorian wrote:Mizhara Del'thul wrote:This is the board. The things that are out of place have been pointed out and questioned. 'Applying science' either requires data to work with or if you're simply talking about the method, reliable information. I personally funded and secured facilities for scientific pursuits, medical research and more for that matter, and enlisted both the science crews and capsuleers I employ and opened it up to anyone else seeking such facilities. Oh and I spread the word about that as well.
If this is insufficient, I wonder what exactly what you would consider sufficient to be able to speak on this subject? Can you point me to this post of yours where you did all the things above? If you can, I will read it consult with my friend biochemist, if she has time for me. Otherwise, I'm not beating the air like the last couple of pages, I'm out, because for all I know we just saved these millions. If not, well, that is why the so much popular "glass it" option is still on the table.
We just saved 'millions' via methods of dubious efficacy that may or may not actually be a time bomb of the figurative sense.
Of course we are going to question it vigorously.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
1569
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 02:01:33 -
[560] - Quote
@ Jaret: Since it covers a range of subjects, you'll find some of it in the Muttokon Containment and Staging thread and the rest in the relevant threads and places. If you are after one single public repository I should probably point out that there is no such thing made by anyone as far as I've been made aware.
That is simply the nature of an organic board such as this and I do not have the necessary skills to create galnet portals with different structures. |
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Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
684
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 02:03:55 -
[561] - Quote
Sending me on a voyage trough your threads with vague "it exists" doesn't help with convincing me or other people. 1. I can't keep my eye on everything. 2. I have more important matters to attend. Like a full 12 hour sleep, for starters.
Here is a question though. Why do your eyes see? On a basic level, they just do. For more information you may need to talk to an oculist.
Why does an airborne vaccine work and why is it employed? It just does and because it is fast enough for basic level. For more information you need to talk to an acual virologist.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
1569
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 02:11:37 -
[562] - Quote
Do you apply these standards and requirements to everyone else, yourself included then? Not that it matters if you believe me or not. You made a list of things to do, and it's verifiable that I've demonstrably done so. It'll have to do. |
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
684
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 02:15:21 -
[563] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Do you apply these standards and requirements to everyone else, yourself included then? Not that it matters if you believe me or not. You made a list of things to do, and it's verifiable that I've demonstrably done so. It'll have to do. I would consider it professional to provide you at least two sources on points if I ever were to convince you of something.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3164
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 02:24:34 -
[564] - Quote
Jaret Victorian wrote: Here is a question though. Why do your eyes see? On a basic level, they just do. For more information you may need to talk to an oculist.
On a basic level, that's not an answer, it's just a precondition for the question. For more information, you could consult anyone with a primary-school education to learn that light bounces off objects which absorb certain wavelengths, and the remaining wavelengths stimulate the rods and cones in your eyes, which trigger an electrochemical receptor in your retina, and your brain uses all of the aggregate stimulus to create an interpretation that you tell yourself you're 'seeing'.
Mother Matar, any ten-year-old in the Republic can tell you that. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3164
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 02:25:46 -
[565] - Quote
Jaret Victorian wrote:Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Do you apply these standards and requirements to everyone else, yourself included then? Not that it matters if you believe me or not. You made a list of things to do, and it's verifiable that I've demonstrably done so. It'll have to do. I would consider it professional to provide you at least two sources on points if I ever were to convince you of something.
Except, you know, if you want to convince her of what you'd do to convince her. Cuz you just didn't provide at least two sources demonstrating that pattern of behavior.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3318
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 02:28:11 -
[566] - Quote
So-- just to note in passing: we do now (or Zainou Biotech does, and has, for many years) have the technology for the basic building block of an upload civilization. That is, we can upload a person to a computer, and have it still function as that person (practically if not legally).
I wonder how hard it really is to simulate a bunch of other human biology, comparatively. Even if it's about the same....
It seems like worries about unpredictability and so on might be a little out of date? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3165
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 02:50:10 -
[567] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:So-- just to note in passing: we do now (or Zainou Biotech does, and has, for many years) have the technology for the basic building block of an upload civilization. That is, we can upload a person to a computer, and have it still function as that person (practically if not legally).
I wonder how hard it really is to simulate a bunch of other human biology, comparatively. Even if it's about the same....
It seems like worries about unpredictability and so on might be a little out of date?
I dunno, to simulate the biology, you'd have to be able to simulate all of the environmental variables perfectly, including the pathogen... and if you already understand the pathogen perfectly, well, you've already got the cure, don't you? |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3318
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 03:01:56 -
[568] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:So-- just to note in passing: we do now (or Zainou Biotech does, and has, for many years) have the technology for the basic building block of an upload civilization. That is, we can upload a person to a computer, and have it still function as that person (practically if not legally).
I wonder how hard it really is to simulate a bunch of other human biology, comparatively. Even if it's about the same....
It seems like worries about unpredictability and so on might be a little out of date? I dunno, to simulate the biology, you'd have to be able to simulate all of the environmental variables perfectly, including the pathogen... and if you already understand the pathogen perfectly, well, you've already got the cure, don't you?
True. And there are some complexities involved that go fractal fast.
Still ... in terms of just how the cure functions in things like interacting with subjects over the course of generations, it seems like a few good simulations under different conditions would help a lot.
It seems like authorities, even in the State, are moving towards shifting people out of quarantine once treated. You might not trust authorities very much, Arrendis, but this much is definitely true: the Caldari higher-ups were more likely to order everybody vaporized if there was a doubt, and give a firm middle finger to the Inquest, than to risk their families by letting people walk free who shouldn't have been allowed to.
Apparently 0410 has a lot of official confidence. |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2165
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 03:35:10 -
[569] - Quote
The Caldari elites are beholden to shareholders who can be swayed by public opinion. Considering the fanfare surrounding 0410, did you think the Caldari elites will risk hurting the bottom line by advocating mass sterilisation and other extreme measures?
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3319
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 03:38:43 -
[570] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:The Caldari elites are beholden to shareholders who can be swayed by public opinion. Considering the fanfare surrounding 0410, did you think the Caldari elites will risk hurting the bottom line by advocating mass sterilisation and other extreme measures?
Yes.
They already did. Guess who sponsored the "glass everybody" option, alongside the Amarr, at the final Inquest vote? |
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