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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9111
   |
Posted - 2017.02.13 19:01:23 -
[1] - Quote
Pilots;
With the rapid escalation of events, rather than allow this to be scattered among a dozen threads, let's try to keep a concentrated collection of data and references for public review. I will be updating this post as frequently as possible, and all possible information on potential exposed populations, points of uncertainty, etc, will be noted in follow-on posts in this thread. Links to secondary threads will be included where helpful.
I strongly advise for further cooperation, and look forward to liaising with Gallente and Matari organizations should that become necessary.
Quarantine zones
- Muttokon II, orbital platform, Minmatari Republic, 900,000 potential exposed
- Oijanen II, Myrskaa, Caldari State, 36,000,000 potential exposed
- Efu V, Genolution station, Amarr Empire, unknown population exposed
- Postouvin IV, Astral Mining platform, Gallente Federation, 8,000,000 potential exposed
News
Coordinating groups
- Muttokon response: unknown.
- Oijanen response: Oijanen Response Group, involving Heiian Conglomerate, Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive, Arataka Research Consortium
- Efu reponse: Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
- Postouvin response: unknown
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9111
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Posted - 2017.02.13 19:03:59 -
[2] - Quote
(post reserved for additional updates)
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9111
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Posted - 2017.02.13 19:04:49 -
[3] - Quote
(post reserved for updates, but let's hope it doesn't get that far.)
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Sinjin Mokk
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
1150
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Posted - 2017.02.13 19:23:41 -
[4] - Quote
Thank you Ms. Priano.
I would again caution people to avoid speculation, remain vigilant and stay safe.
"Angels live, they never die,
Apart from us, behind the sky.
They're fading souls who've turned to ice,
So ashen white in paradise."
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Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
935
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Posted - 2017.02.13 19:36:49 -
[5] - Quote
If the authorities wish to avoid speculation they would do well to be a little less tight-lipped about what is going on. At this point their silence is inducing panic rather than sequestering it. This is not the behavior of people who are trying to keep public order; it's the behavior of someone trying to manifest the feeling of dreadful suspense in a holoreel audience.
"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1185
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Posted - 2017.02.13 19:46:37 -
[6] - Quote
I have medical and emergency security personnel, as well as facilities, capable of handling hundreds of thousands if not millions of freed slaves when need be. They can swiftly be repurposed into crisis teams for this particular purpose if necessary. If you require third party testimony to their efficacy, contact Samira Kernher, or SFRIM leadership who have both seen them in action.
Do allow for a few hours or more if we need to deploy Citadels for these efforts as there's obvious security issues organizing proper defenses.
I would also request neutral oversight of these efforts, as it'd appear nominally hostile entities will be operating around these places. SFRIM deploying into the lands of my kin is a matter of concern if such oversight is not in place and may even be considered hostile without it. |
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
937
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Posted - 2017.02.13 20:04:32 -
[7] - Quote
SFRIM has been prepared to procure or help procure consumables for those on board the orbital and a Citadel for staging purposes. For logistical reasons it was our intent that these be administered by another party. Beyond trust, which we have in bountiful amounts thanks to the nature of this effort, our other great concern is that this other party or parties take on the movement of what will amount to at least several freighter holds' volume of cargo. This is even more important now that there is the Efu incident to attend to as well.
Regardless of who ends up doing the "on the ground" component in Muttokon I hope nobody will be threatened by cargo vessels filled with food and medicine.
"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1185
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Posted - 2017.02.13 20:07:48 -
[8] - Quote
Capsuleer staging areas can contain so much more than just food and medicine, and SFRIM pilots are on record taking hostile military action against Tribal interests and people, even on our side of the border. If transparency and neutral oversight is for some reason unacceptable, that would make it far from unreasonable to suspect less... charitable intentions.
Imperial 'Cargo Vessels' are routinely found carrying human 'cargo' when they're discovered in our space. |
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
937
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Posted - 2017.02.13 20:19:52 -
[9] - Quote
If you have a neutral organization that would make you personally happy we are more than willing to consider it but for our part we have to be sure of the organization or person's ability to handle the logistics and, of course, there will have to be a trust component because the costs of what they will be entrusted with are, at minimum, in the billions.
I know of not a single time when SFRIM has made a pledge of humanitarian aid or international cooperation where it later acted in a duplicitous manner.
We cannot come at this like enemies. It will never work.
"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1185
|
Posted - 2017.02.13 20:26:50 -
[10] - Quote
Hard not to knowing that SFRIM are on record performing combat operations against my people even within our borders, and loyalists to the one nation that are actively and perpetually enslaving my people. I'm sure you can see why setting up a capsuleer staging citadel in our systems is thus a matter of concern without neutral oversight. |
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Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1805
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Posted - 2017.02.13 20:41:15 -
[11] - Quote
The speed at which this pathogen seems to spread from person to person would suggest an entire station or city would be infected within days, and that only the prompt quarantine responses thus far shown have been preventing the natural spread of the disease. And yet, it is still spreading.
The spread of this agent is not following a logical pattern. Cases are appearing in distant and unrelated locations suggesting it is not being carried there by infected individuals going about their regular travels. The alternative is that it is being spread purposely at random to maximize the chance of the agent escaping a quarantine. If this is the case, the culprits must be found.
Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle
Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Lord Consort of House Sarum
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Victoria Grey
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2017.02.13 20:57:22 -
[12] - Quote
I am on stand-bye for support in mainly Muttokon (but can help in Efu and Postouvin as there is likely a significant Matari presence there whether slaves or federation citizens). I can help bring supplies or fill any role Necessary.
Mizhara, I will coordinate with you if need arises for further action. Else I will likely patrol the system and surrounding systems for information and sometimes bring supplies or relief aid when I can. |
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
939
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Posted - 2017.02.13 20:58:30 -
[13] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Hard not to knowing that SFRIM are on record performing combat operations against my people even within our borders, and loyalists to the one nation that are actively and perpetually enslaving my people. I'm sure you can see why setting up a capsuleer staging citadel in our systems is thus a matter of concern without neutral oversight.
There is noting in SFRIM's history to even remotely suggest that our humanitarian efforts ever have been or ever will be anything other than what we promise. Seeing as you worried about underhandedness despite the facts and my assurances I ask again if there is an organization in particular that you think could play the role of neutral. I am happy to consider and lobby the board to approve anybody that can handle the operation.
In addition, if we were confident that another similarly supplied effort could be undertaken by you or some other Republic-aligned group, we would have no reservations about focusing on the Efu response exclusively.
"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9116
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Posted - 2017.02.13 21:06:20 -
[14] - Quote
I've made a small update, as it seems there is some dispute on who should administer or oversee the Muttokon quarantine.
Needless to say, while Ms. Del'thul is currently on deployment elsewhere, she's made repeated indications of attacking any operation by SFRIM in Matari space. While I'd hoped that humanitarian aid would be accepted without the usual rancor, that appears not to be the case.
As the situation evolves, and the discussion develops between Lord Tash-Murkon and Ms. Del'thul, I'll update the list.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
47
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Posted - 2017.02.13 21:06:23 -
[15] - Quote
As perhaps a "representative" I do have two Sigils and Bestower which can quickly be converted to personnel transports.
It is not much but I am wiling to assist should I be asked to do so.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1185
|
Posted - 2017.02.13 21:13:31 -
[16] - Quote
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon wrote:Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Hard not to knowing that SFRIM are on record performing combat operations against my people even within our borders, and loyalists to the one nation that are actively and perpetually enslaving my people. I'm sure you can see why setting up a capsuleer staging citadel in our systems is thus a matter of concern without neutral oversight. There is noting in SFRIM's history to even remotely suggest that our humanitarian efforts ever have been or ever will be anything other than what we promise. Seeing as you worried about underhandedness despite the facts and my assurances I ask again if there is an organization in particular that you think could play the role of neutral. I am happy to consider and lobby the board to approve anybody that can handle the operation. In addition, if we were confident that another similarly supplied effort could be undertaken by you or some other Republic-aligned group, we would have no reservations about focusing on the Efu response exclusively.
I actually have personal experience with... 'human cargo' being handed over to unknown parties by SFRIM and it took some serious efforts including aid from third parties to rectify the situation. So there is quite a bit in SFRIM's history to make it worrisome having SFRIM handling Muttokon unmonitored.
I believe through a third party this particular issue has been resolved and I'll have a facility in place soon, along with personnel and assets all used for similar emergency situations. Muttokon II is being handled. |
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
939
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Posted - 2017.02.13 21:25:44 -
[17] - Quote
I have to say though that it does not bode well for the future that billions in aid, freely and in good faith offered to innocents, would have been fired upon by someone just because the people that paid for it were the wrong sort.
For the sake of the nearly million lives in the balance I hope you are successful in securing the material to aid them. I cannot approve the shipment under direct threats of violence so the only thing you cannot stop me from offering are my prayers.
SFRIM is liberated to shift its primary focus to Efu. Other efforts underway that anticipate the need for additional pilots or material are encouraged to contact me. As the situation continues to develop we are very keen on cooperation to limit the human cost.
"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13
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Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
47
|
Posted - 2017.02.13 21:48:44 -
[18] - Quote
And so we united in word, but not in deeds?
I certainly understand the inherent mistrust of people, but how can we, the people of New Eden respond to what is evidently a large scale attack on many our populations. Each Empire was attacked. True it seems random and small. But now we know it is deliberate and a pattern.
I can understand the need for patriotism during certain times.
Let's do something unprecedented in New Eden and actually work together to resolving the epidemic.
Nationalism has no place here.
I will gladly jump into Matari space, despite being viewed as a suspect, or worse criminal for being perceived as Slaver.
I'll subject myself to search or even allow Republic Peacekeepers to inspect my ships to alleviate any concerns
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1796
|
Posted - 2017.02.13 21:49:42 -
[19] - Quote
I'm afraid to ask but what would this neutral third party be expected to do? Just monitor shipments going in and keep tabs on Amarrian warships being staged, if any? I'm on Mizhara's side for this, since I can only imagine that people going through what they are going through would probably not want those who once enslaved us offering a hand without our own around. Atleast I know I wouldn't. It has nothing to do with past actions, just common sense. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1185
|
Posted - 2017.02.13 21:58:02 -
[20] - Quote
It's not the aid that is objectionable. It's the documented history of aggression towards my people and the lesser known history of handing off my people to unknown parties during 'humanitarian aid' efforts. Which I also have documentation on. If letting you make cheap jabs about 'good faith' is the price to pay for ensuring the safety of my people, so be it. My reputation is understandably in tatters anyway so it makes little difference.
A rescue center and staging area for friendly capsuleer efforts will be in place shortly. |
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Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
Naquatech Syndicate
1963
|
Posted - 2017.02.13 22:08:14 -
[21] - Quote
I may or may not keep an eye on the situation in Postouvin or anything similar in the territory of Solitude.
Akrasjel Lanate
Founder and CEO of Naquatech Conglomerate
Executor of Naquatech Syndicate
Citizen of Solitude
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Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
48
|
Posted - 2017.02.13 22:18:20 -
[22] - Quote
Deitra Vess wrote:I'm afraid to ask but what would this neutral third party be expected to do? Just monitor shipments going in and keep tabs on Amarrian warships being staged, if any? I'm on Mizhara's side for this, since I can only imagine that people going through what they are going through would probably not want those who once enslaved us offering a hand without our own around. Atleast I know I wouldn't. It has nothing to do with past actions, just common sense.
I respect the reasoning behind this concern.
However not all Amarr will have an agenda beyond helping those in need.
My only issue is that if we continue to cling the old ways of suspicions and mistrust during a crisis such as this it wouldn't matter who wins the next fight if the outbreak is able to spread because we cannot resolve our differences.
Let's take care of those in need now, we can fight about it later.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1186
|
Posted - 2017.02.13 22:22:52 -
[23] - Quote
The matter is resolved. Muttokon II is covered and likely with more ISK, assets and personnel behind it than the previous 'solution'. |
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1797
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Posted - 2017.02.13 22:28:06 -
[24] - Quote
Casserina Leshrac wrote:Deitra Vess wrote:I'm afraid to ask but what would this neutral third party be expected to do? Just monitor shipments going in and keep tabs on Amarrian warships being staged, if any? I'm on Mizhara's side for this, since I can only imagine that people going through what they are going through would probably not want those who once enslaved us offering a hand without our own around. Atleast I know I wouldn't. It has nothing to do with past actions, just common sense. I respect the reasoning behind this concern. However not all Amarr will have an agenda beyond helping those in need. My only issue is that if we continue to cling the old ways of suspicions and mistrust during a crisis such as this it wouldn't matter who wins the next fight if the outbreak is able to spread because we cannot resolve our differences. Let's take care of those in need now, we can fight about it later.
Personally I agree with you on that. My only reason in this instance is; its a devastating event leaving them helpless, followed by Amarr coming to remove them from the contaminated areas and offer aid. They more than likely have the best of intentions (I have no evidence against that aside from a questionable track record). The psychological effect however is another thing. |
James Syagrius
Reclamation Technologies
1493
|
Posted - 2017.02.13 22:37:55 -
[25] - Quote
Good attentions aside, I would caution patience. Quarantine seems a rational precaution until more is known.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
724
|
Posted - 2017.02.13 22:44:09 -
[26] - Quote
We at Hoi Andrapodistai have responded to this crisis by transferring 12,500 filthy Minmatar slaves TO the Efu V Moon 1 Genolution Station.
It is our hope that these slaves will become infected and before they glorify God in their deaths will allow my Science Graduates to isolate the pathogen and weaponize it against the Minmatar. |
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
48
|
Posted - 2017.02.13 22:47:38 -
[27] - Quote
Deitra Vess wrote:Personally I agree with you on that. My only reason in this instance is; its a devastating event leaving them helpless, followed by Amarr coming to remove them from the contaminated areas and offer aid. They more than likely have the best of intentions (I have no evidence against that aside from a questionable track record). The psychological effect however is another thing.
Well I think the issues like in the centuries of hatred. We have an opportunity to put that aside. It may not right all the wrongs but it would be a step.
Historically Amarr transports were used for slave transports. However, they would be perfect for the movement of qualified personnel into the quarantine zone. Or move low-risk civilians out.
If it makes the Republic happy to have me under their guns and my ship boarded by the secuirty and medical personnel I can accept that.
Many independent contractors would want to help we just need some coordination and perhaps a list of supplies that are starting to run low.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Veronique Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.02.13 22:52:25 -
[28] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:We at Hoi Andrapodistai have responded to this crisis by transferring 12,500 filthy Minmatar slaves TO the Efu V Moon 1 Genolution Station.
It is our hope that these slaves will become infected and before they glorify God in their deaths will allow my Science Graduates to isolate the pathogen and weaponize it against the Minmatar.
Are you planning to run the gauntlet of security to make your "shipment'?
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Sinti Vailatti
Angelis Exploration
245
|
Posted - 2017.02.13 22:56:17 -
[29] - Quote
So...
Anyone here know what "false flag" means?
Asking for some friends.
GÇ£Where must we go...we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves?GÇ¥
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1186
|
Posted - 2017.02.13 22:59:31 -
[30] - Quote
There are four different nations seemingly under attack at this point. There is no reason at all to risk the people or capsuleers involved by allocating yourself to the one nation you're likely an avowed enemy of when others are already covering that location. Good will and hearty huggles and so on are all well and good, but none of those things trump the primary priority here: The people affected by these attacks. The best help they can get is from their own people.
Billions are already spent and at work for Muttokon II simply on the off-chance capsuleers may gain humanitarian access. These people are being cared for as much as they can at this point, and if you seek to help people involved in this crisis I'm sure the other nations' loyalists will have room for you just like this one already has garnered a list of capsuleers ready to deploy. |
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H1de0
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
26
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Posted - 2017.02.13 23:13:13 -
[31] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:Good attentions aside, I would caution patience. Quarantine seems a rational precaution until more is known.
Agree.
I believe we have offered our resources to the parties in charge more the once since this outbreak caught public traction. Other then that there is little more we can provide and trying to overshadow local authorities with our no-matter-how-righteously-driven actions would only make the situation more tense.
Let us remain in the background and on alert for any new developments should they emerge.
Decrypting the Sleeper cache..
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Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
49
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Posted - 2017.02.13 23:17:50 -
[32] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:There are four different nations seemingly under attack at this point. There is no reason at all to risk the people or capsuleers involved by allocating yourself to the one nation you're likely an avowed enemy of when others are already covering that location. Good will and hearty huggles and so on are all well and good, but none of those things trump the primary priority here: The people affected by these attacks. The best help they can get is from their own people.
Billions are already spent and at work for Muttokon II simply on the off-chance capsuleers may gain humanitarian access. These people are being cared for as much as they can at this point, and if you seek to help people involved in this crisis I'm sure the other nations' loyalists will have room for you just like this one already has garnered a list of capsuleers ready to deploy.
Please do not misunderstand me. First I would not travel that far into Republic Space without an armed escort. I would be insistent on it simply because of the confusion of relief efforts coming off of Amarr Transport vs that of Matari ship. It vexes me to see nothing happening with the space elevator except the possibility of it plummeting into the atmosphere of an inhabited planet thus making the situation worse.
I am of the opinion that all of these issues are connected and perhaps all of our best answers come from Muttokon since it is "ground zero."
But you are right, no use in traveling to Muttokon when we have the contagion now in Efu. It is closer and I check out things there. If I do find out anything useful I will be happy to share.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1187
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Posted - 2017.02.13 23:22:32 -
[33] - Quote
And should Muttokon II prove to be fully cared for and won't need any capsuleer aid at all, I'm certain my personal and other people's emergency response assets can be transferred under the control of parties handling the other crisis centers in other nations. |
Veronique Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.02.13 23:26:37 -
[34] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:We at Hoi Andrapodistai have responded to this crisis by transferring 12,500 filthy Minmatar slaves TO the Efu V Moon 1 Genolution Station.
It is our hope that these slaves will become infected and before they glorify God in their deaths will allow my Science Graduates to isolate the pathogen and weaponize it against the Minmatar.
Just from catching up on all the forums. You realize you seem to be likely suspect in all these outbreaks across New Eden right?
And now publicly admitting on the Summit that you would "weaponize" them against the Minmatar People. You do realize that this started in Republic Space right?
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Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
49
|
Posted - 2017.02.13 23:31:41 -
[35] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:And should Muttokon II prove to be fully cared for and won't need any capsuleer aid at all, I'm certain my personal and other people's emergency response assets can be transferred under the control of parties handling the other crisis centers in other nations.
Of course I do. You have been on this watch since the beginning. I have no doubts in your compassion in regards to the seriousness of the situation. It affects us all.
You have humbled me and I am honored that you would this despite the challenges you may face for your good intentions.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Aradina Varren
Alexylva Paradox
84
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Posted - 2017.02.13 23:53:53 -
[36] - Quote
The common assumption as to how its spread so far seems to be that people have breached the quarantine, or that it was a targeted attack, but what if the contagion doesn't show symptoms immediately? All of the initial victims were infected from a common source and then traveled to these locations where the disease, whatever it is, became active and spread. We should consider looking for common areas between the locations, and also being prepared for more outbreaks if this is the case.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9124
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Posted - 2017.02.14 07:51:52 -
[37] - Quote
Without a doubt, the idea of a patient zero, or an initial infection pool, is a reasonable one. If these outbreaks are the same disease, then they are likely from a common source. There's a reason Oijanen Response Group (ORG) marines have attempted to locate the black box of the Oijanen frigate crash, or any logs about the same.
The major issue with any disease is the latent period before symptoms are evident. This appears to progress quickly, which is honestly helpful -- but even two days' incubation merits appropriate delays on transit. If all stations in the State institute a mandatory lag on travel, forcing ships at dock to remain isolated for several days before docking and transit of crew and passengers, then plague-bearing ships will have crew manifesting symptoms. While this will be a significant burden for corporations operating their supply chains on a just-in-time basis, the public safety gains from a mandatory quarantine period on ships arriving in dock would be tremendous.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Haru'kai Vidaraltyr
6
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Posted - 2017.02.14 09:14:23 -
[38] - Quote
The actions reported here are perfect examples of what I was talking about. Capsuleers all going off half-cocked with no co-ordination, no actual idea of what they are responding to, and risking all sorts of potential inter-empire conflicts in the arrogant belief that they are the only ones capable of solving this threat.
It's actually amusing that some of you think that the majority of capsuleers are in any way as moral as you like to make out. How long before your valuable assets attract the eye of the piratical, and in the ensuing attacks, the quarantine is broken?
Why can't you simply put your egos to one side for a moment and wait until the appropriate authorities ask for your aid?
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.
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Julianni Avala
Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
135
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Posted - 2017.02.14 09:30:18 -
[39] - Quote
Haru'kai Vidaraltyr wrote:The actions reported here are perfect examples of what I was talking about. Capsuleers all going off half-cocked with no co-ordination, no actual idea of what they are responding to, and risking all sorts of potential inter-empire conflicts in the arrogant belief that they are the only ones capable of solving this threat.
It's actually amusing that some of you think that the majority of capsuleers are in any way as moral as you like to make out. How long before your valuable assets attract the eye of the piratical, and in the ensuing attacks, the quarantine is broken?
Why can't you simply put your egos to one side for a moment and wait until the appropriate authorities ask for your aid?
Mister Vidaraltyr, I would like to correct you in that there's no coordination. There is. There are a number of parties involved in it.
This is not about ego. This is a situation in which everyone, everywhere, should be concerned. To coordinate efforts in way of aid is showing humanity. While I agree that most capusleers seem to have found themselves lost in this concept, that doesn't mean that it's entirely gone.
I can say that I do, however, understand your concern about pirates. |
Desiderya
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
1183
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 13:55:32 -
[40] - Quote
I'll get in touch. Maybe there is something I can do.
Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
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Soldarius
O C C U P Y
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1568
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 15:14:38 -
[41] - Quote
I'm going to suggest that including the Astral Mining incident in the OP's list at this point is premature. While I cannot rule out such an event, there is no evidence of any sort of biological event there. It looks more like some sort of military coup. If it were a bio-chem attack or outbreak, would not someone have signaled for help by now? Or maybe sent out a warning?
edit: ok wait. The original press release states a bunch of things that are not known to be true. Since when is there an Astral Mining facility in Postouvin? And that space is known to be devoid of good mineral deposits like Radiant Hemorphite.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Sinjin Mokk
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
1152
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 15:48:28 -
[42] - Quote
Well...
It seems that things have taken quite a turn for the worse.
Please continue to trust your local governments and CONCORD who surely have your best interests in mind.
"Angels live, they never die,
Apart from us, behind the sky.
They're fading souls who've turned to ice,
So ashen white in paradise."
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9126
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 15:59:52 -
[43] - Quote
"It's never Kyonoke."
Until it is.
Containment is now the absolute priority.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9127
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 16:07:13 -
[44] - Quote
Alright.
This is a blessing that is very, very well disguised. Sort of.
The advantage is this: Kyonoke is absolutely lethal, and fast-acting. The time of incubation is so brief that even a relatively short quarantine period on shipping can achieve significant returns on exposure of diseased persons, and the ability of the infected to expose themselves to others is likewise brief before they begin manifesting symptoms.
The disadvantage is this: this is a contagion that is able to survive harsh conditions, which means that contaminants that would usually be destroyed by exposure to vacuum might not be destroyed in this case. At the same time, the Kyonoke sample was found within the asteroid in question, not on its surface, which might mean that it is still vulnerable to radiation.
The question is what the Caldari Navy has learned about Kyonoke since its initial discovery and the establishment of their cordon.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1192
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 16:12:24 -
[45] - Quote
One thing is for damn sure. The Muttokon II space elevator plaform will need to be protected. That thing going up in flames while in orbit? The entire planet might feel the effects. Stage your combat ships, ladies and gentlemen. We might yet prove needed. |
Sinti Vailatti
Angelis Exploration
245
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 16:20:08 -
[46] - Quote
I like the SCOPE.
Reporter: Hey Boss, they confirmed it! There's a KYONOKE OUTBREAK on Myrskaa on Oijanen II!!
Managing Editor: Oh my God, that's horrible! Quick! Run that piece on how to combat Angel Cartel ships!
Reporter: Um..boss..how is that going to help...
Managing Editor: Shut up and run that Anti-Angel broadcast NOW!
Reporter: But...Kyonoke...
Manging Editor: FINE. Put something on the scroll...now AIR THAT VIDEO OR YOU'RE FIRED!!!
F*cking assh*les..
GÇ£Where must we go...we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves?GÇ¥
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1192
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 16:24:23 -
[47] - Quote
Takes time to get any segment set up. A ticker can be modified on the fly. I can understand them wanting to get the word out while still hammering out the actual news piece. |
Sinti Vailatti
Angelis Exploration
246
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 16:33:04 -
[48] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Takes time to get any segment set up. A ticker can be modified on the fly. I can understand them wanting to get the word out while still hammering out the actual news piece.
Really? REALLY?
GÇ£Where must we go...we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves?GÇ¥
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9127
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 16:35:48 -
[49] - Quote
In other news, I've been informed by staff that the Kyonoke pathogen has a variable incubation period, which means a brief quarantine for transit is not sufficient.
Further statements will follow a consultation with the medical personnel.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
938
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 18:54:21 -
[50] - Quote
Given the first place to go into lockdown was a freight platform, it'll be a damn good day for the big four if it ends with just these sites.
Else it's going to be a big, damn, mess.
Proud pilot of the Imperium
Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1192
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 18:59:35 -
[51] - Quote
Sinti Vailatti wrote:Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Takes time to get any segment set up. A ticker can be modified on the fly. I can understand them wanting to get the word out while still hammering out the actual news piece. Really? REALLY?
Really. |
Corinne Lemmont
SOE Ladies Auxiliary
0
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 19:48:15 -
[52] - Quote
Blessings, capsuleers.
This situation is a frightening crisis, but I think that the capsuleer community is poised to provide significant assistance. I hope that political lines can be ignored while we focus on human needs.
My thanks to Ms. Priano and others for calls to coordinate support. To keep you informed about SOELA activity, earlier this morning before the Kyonote Plague confirmation was announced, my organization prepped 16 science specialists for transport to our research labs in Oijanen at the Mogul Outpost Sierra. Their transport is underway with assistance from Signal Cartel pilots. It is our hope that officials will work with us and permit us to offer support in the form of scientific and medical expertise.
Food and medical aid will obviously be a huge need; my Sisters of EVE contacts indicate that large shipments are being deployed with the expected cooperation of Caldari State and Myrskaa city officials. I don't yet know what role my organization may be asked to play in that effort. Things are far too fluid at the moment to make such predictions.
I will monitor this communique and respond accordingly as I can, but feel free to contact me directly.
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Victoria Grey
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 19:57:40 -
[53] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:One thing is for damn sure. The Muttokon II space elevator plaform will need to be protected. That thing going up in flames while in orbit? The entire planet might feel the effects. Stage your combat ships, ladies and gentlemen. We might yet prove needed.
Roger that Ms. Del'Thul. |
Aradina Varren
Alexylva Paradox
84
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 20:55:37 -
[54] - Quote
I'm currently in Oijanen, the system is very active since it's a pipeline from the Drone Regions to Jita, and some of the traffic is hostile, so anyone planning to station themselves in Oijanen should keep that in mind.
Mogul Outpost Sierra is a freeport Astrahus in the system and is a good location to stage from. Airaken is a highsec system that borders Oijanen, just 8 jumps to Jita, and could also be used if you don't want to move assets into lowsec. |
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
49
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 21:34:05 -
[55] - Quote
At this point I guess we need who are eyes in each of the infected systems and whether or not we can creating staging areas in them all to be ready.
Now all we need is confirmation that Kyonoke is at the other sites.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1193
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 21:38:06 -
[56] - Quote
I'm more curious who'll take on Aridia. That may possibly be the worst system outside of nullsec hubs to try and set up shop. |
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
49
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 21:44:02 -
[57] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:I'm more curious who'll take on Aridia. That may possibly be the worst system outside of nullsec hubs to try and set up shop.
I seem to recall that there are least two Federation Research stations that are withing two jumps.
So difficult but impossible.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Soldarius
O C C U P Y
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1568
|
Posted - 2017.02.15 16:07:45 -
[58] - Quote
KILL IT WITH FIRE! Since this plague is so fast acting, I see no problem with literally purifying every infected area to the maximum possible extent. Any other response would be a gross dereliction of duty.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9143
|
Posted - 2017.02.15 18:17:41 -
[59] - Quote
If there comes a time when the governing authorities in these areas call for purging quarantine zones, then we'll do so; with regret, surely, but with reason.
Until then, bombarding major population centers is not a step to be taken lightly, or independent of calls from those with a greater overall understanding of events.
As it stands, many of us who responded in the earliest days, before this was known to be Kyonoke, are already losing personnel over this. I see no reason to kill them, when there's a chance that quarantine and isolation may allow some of them to live.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Saya Ishikari
Akagi Initiative
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
545
|
Posted - 2017.02.15 18:53:32 -
[60] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:If there comes a time when the governing authorities in these areas call for purging quarantine zones, then we'll do so; with regret, surely, but with reason.
Until then, bombarding major population centers is not a step to be taken lightly, or independent of calls from those with a greater overall understanding of events.
As it stands, many of us who responded in the earliest days, before this was known to be Kyonoke, are already losing personnel over this. I see no reason to kill them, when there's a chance that quarantine and isolation may allow some of them to live.
I echo Priano-haani's sentiments on the matter. Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. But there is a line between doing what is necessary, and adoption of a simple solution merely because it presents itself as such.
"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117
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Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
637
|
Posted - 2017.02.15 19:22:15 -
[61] - Quote
Majority of what we can do right now (considering communication blackout and the fact that Caldari Navy dragged nearly all its divisions into this) consists of information collection and dessimination, which The Discourse crew will be on top of.
There is a saying among rescuers that "100 victims are better than 101" which essentially means that trying to help in a situation where you don't know what to do will only add to the problem. Right now it looks like the the professionals got it.
We will do what we can, explore potential scenarios, make sure the public is well informed without being a nuisance to the people who are the closest to the problem.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1205
|
Posted - 2017.02.15 19:28:52 -
[62] - Quote
All that can be done is be prepared. Stock up on assets and resources, ensure you have combat ships available in case they're needed in the right areas, and be ready for anything. That is all that can ever be done when lack of information is the key problem. |
Sterling Blades
Windstalker Security Corp
United Neopian Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.02.15 19:35:00 -
[63] - Quote
I am willing to volunteer the efforts of the United Neopian Federation to take on providing relief to Postouvin. We are not based immediately within Solitude, however we can quickly begin moving small Rapid Response Vessels into the region carrying supplies to setup staging in Niballe, and Oerse. We cannot provide a citadel directly into Postouvin for direct onsite measures, but our resources and personnell none the less can be swiftly diverted to helping maintain the situation there. |
Mynxee
Signal Cartel
EvE-Scout Enclave
304
|
Posted - 2017.02.15 22:52:35 -
[64] - Quote
My pilots are already assisting the SOE Ladies Auxiliary with transport of science and medical researchers to Oijanen. While it is true that most of us tend to operate in remote areas of space, many among our ranks stand ready to serve the good causes of New Eden and will deploy where we are needed in order to do that. Please don't hesitate to reach out to me if we can somehow support peaceful aid efforts relative to this crisis.
Lost in space, looking for sigs...
Blog: Cloaky Wanderer
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Gorion Wassenar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
159
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 00:27:31 -
[65] - Quote
The time to shut the door will come much sooner than you could possibly want. Stars preserves us I never wanted to see this genie out of its bottle again.
Rote Kapelle - NOW IN SLIGHTLY MORE LAW ABIDING FLAVOR!
"DRINK STARSI!" -¬-«GäóOwnership Group Chairman
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Sterling Blades
Windstalker Security Corp
United Neopian Federation
2
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 05:58:26 -
[66] - Quote
The first of several UNF Containment and Relief teams have arrived in Solitude, and are staged in Niballe at a freeport citadel that already exists there. Due to the nature of the suspected Kyonoke outbreak on the Astral Mining platform in Postouvin, All UNF C&R teams have Class 5A Self Contained HazMat gear, with minimum 2 hour internal air supplies and full HardVac ratings. Full primary and secondary quarantine measures will be instituted as necessary for all C&R Personnel that enter the Postouvin system. More Rapid Response units are being prepped to be moved from the Placid region, through Syndicate, and into Solitude for further staging. |
Desiderya
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
1185
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 08:55:39 -
[67] - Quote
Desiderya wrote:I'll get in touch. Maybe there is something I can do.
Scope News wrote: It's Kyonoke
Scratch that. I leave poking that particular beehive to people with more suicidal tendencies than me and wish you the best of luck. Keep in mind when talking about blowing planets up that this debris goes everywhere.
Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
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Agiri Falken
State War Academy
Caldari State
265
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 11:50:08 -
[68] - Quote
Sterling Blades wrote:The first of several UNF Containment and Relief teams have arrived in Solitude, and are staged in Niballe at a freeport citadel that already exists there. Due to the nature of the suspected Kyonoke outbreak on the Astral Mining platform in Postouvin, All UNF C&R teams have Class 5A Self Contained HazMat gear, with minimum 2 hour internal air supplies and full HardVac ratings. Full primary and secondary quarantine measures will be instituted as necessary for all C&R Personnel that enter the Postouvin system. More Rapid Response units are being prepped to be moved from the Placid region, through Syndicate, and into Solitude for further staging.
Just keep in mind that this particular germ, as I understand it, bypasses most any means to filter it out, yeah? Honest concern from this ground pounder for your men. |
Sterling Blades
Windstalker Security Corp
United Neopian Federation
2
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 12:23:55 -
[69] - Quote
Agiri Falken wrote:Sterling Blades wrote:The first of several UNF Containment and Relief teams have arrived in Solitude, and are staged in Niballe at a freeport citadel that already exists there. Due to the nature of the suspected Kyonoke outbreak on the Astral Mining platform in Postouvin, All UNF C&R teams have Class 5A Self Contained HazMat gear, with minimum 2 hour internal air supplies and full HardVac ratings. Full primary and secondary quarantine measures will be instituted as necessary for all C&R Personnel that enter the Postouvin system. More Rapid Response units are being prepped to be moved from the Placid region, through Syndicate, and into Solitude for further staging. Just keep in mind that this particular germ, as I understand it, bypasses most any means to filter it out, yeah? Honest concern from this ground pounder for your men.
I understand your concerns, and very much so am appreciative of it. I have made sure that all involved personnel have been thoroughly briefed on the nature of this particular prion, and then given personal discretion to back out of the operation if they so chose without fear of repercussion. All C&R teams that chose to stay actively a part of the operation have done so of their own free will, fully understanding that any possible contact with the Astral Mining platform in Postouvin(or even entering its relative proximity) may mean that they will become part of the quarantine, and completely cut off from exit if they are not infomorphs such as capsuleers or former clone mercs. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2948
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 15:26:54 -
[70] - Quote
Please bear in mind that one of the problems with Kyonoke is that the protein "speck" is too similar to normal proteins for scanners to pick it up very readily at all.
In other words, it can only really be tracked by its victims. It's maybe kind of a good thing that there's usually not a lot of delay before victims start appearing, but it can take much longer if the "speck" is in its "basic" state.
Paranoia's probably going to have to be the rule here. |
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Sterling Blades
Windstalker Security Corp
United Neopian Federation
2
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 16:00:32 -
[71] - Quote
That, I will not deny miss Aria, and am fully aware. Hence any proximal contact will be handled as exposure, and placed in further extended quarantine. Wish such weren't necessary, but these incidents do so require such paranoia.
Insofar we have established an operational center in Postouvin now, with primary staging still in Niballe, however we have kept all UNF vessels outside of the platform's proximity until additional C&R teams are in place, and it has been made clear that any entering C&R team to breach a certain cordon distance will be immediately marked as a quarantined casualty, and will not be allowed back past the cordon distance via remote disabling of any warp capabilities.
As much as it turns my gut, they are aware that any such attempts to get back after the 'No Return' distance will be met as a hostile act, and the vessel slagged with antimatter. Its a wretched state of affairs, but unfortunately pertinent that things not be allowed to escalate further and spread.
None of the C&R teams have been given any orders to enter proximity within 200km of the platform, and such shall remain the case in terms of orders given from top downward, until more information is known about the on platform situation, though Astral Mining has been less than forthcoming with specifics.
The situation across the board in all incidents is very much liquid, and still subject to change. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9166
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 21:07:16 -
[72] - Quote
Pilots, a small update. The majority of the details are still classified, but it would appear this is not the same as the original strain. The slower action is in fact quite problematic.
The major issue with any pathogen is the amount of time the infected have to pass the infection on before themselves becoming incapacitated. This is, for instance, one of the reasons why a variety of hemorrhagic fevers are both terrifying but ultimately not dangerous to the interstellar community at large: while extremely contagious, symptoms progress so rapidly that the reproduction rate in the population is actually impeded by it.
In a way, this is why your common cold or flu is much more successful as a pathogen: the symptoms are such that it isn't uncommon for those infected to continue working, travelling, and passing the pathogen to others.
Not so with the standard Kyonoke strain, where infection progresses so rapidly that the potential number of exposed is extremely small.
This is, however, not the standard strain.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1825
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 21:32:19 -
[73] - Quote
This increases the threat of the contagion significantly. As cold as it sounds, immediate, mandatory euthanasia for those infected is preferred at this point. Forcible isolation for all those potentially exposed.
Authorities must act quickly. If this is allowed to spread the effects will be devastating.
Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle
Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Lord Consort of House Sarum
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Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
Corelum Syndicate
794
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 21:42:36 -
[74] - Quote
I'll admit, the mention of a "digital transmission of a full report on the pathogen" had me salivating a bit. That they called it a "virus" made me put a forehead shaped dent in my desk.
I will echo the academic community's request for dissemination of the report, as I have a full division standing ready to start working on it. This is a matter for all of New Eden, not just Zainou.
Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
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H1de0
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
30
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 21:54:09 -
[75] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Pilots, a small update. The majority of the details are still classified, but it would appear this is not the same as the original strain. The slower action is in fact quite problematic. The major issue with any pathogen is the amount of time the infected have to pass the infection on before themselves becoming incapacitated. This is, for instance, one of the reasons why a variety of hemorrhagic fevers are both terrifying but ultimately not dangerous to the interstellar community at large: while extremely contagious, symptoms progress so rapidly that the reproduction rate in the population is actually impeded by it. In a way, this is why your common cold or flu is much more successful as a pathogen: the symptoms are such that it isn't uncommon for those infected to continue working, travelling, and passing the pathogen to others. Not so with the standard Kyonoke strain, where infection progresses so rapidly that the potential number of exposed is extremely small. This is, however, not the standard strain.
This is indeed a very interesting development.
For primary we are now aware that the pathogen is able to traverse larger distances in it's "basic" state hence we must assume that the measures taken to isolate it could have proven unsuccessful. On what scale, only time will tell.
For secondary, since this is a non-standard strain, it seems the pathogen has undergone a mutation of sorts. Organics do not evolve in constant, finite environments. For the adaptation process to begin they need a catalyst, a change in their surroundings. Since the original strain was isolated and left host-less, the mutation process must have taken place outside of it's place of origin in Taisy.
Three possibilities come to mind:
1. A second (or multiple) "pit" exists.
2. The original sample has managed to leak somehow.
3. The new strain has been engineered.
Decrypting the Sleeper cache..
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Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1826
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 21:55:32 -
[76] - Quote
The lack of cases in recent history strongly suggests the mutation to this strain was not natural. Someone almost certainly engineered it to be more deadly and more easily spread.
Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle
Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Lord Consort of House Sarum
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Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
546
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 23:02:26 -
[77] - Quote
The fact that hosts can use FTL travel does not constitute a "mutation". |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
2036
|
Posted - 2017.02.17 01:19:11 -
[78] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Pilots, a small update. The majority of the details are still classified, but it would appear this is not the same as the original strain. The slower action is in fact quite problematic. The major issue with any pathogen is the amount of time the infected have to pass the infection on before themselves becoming incapacitated. This is, for instance, one of the reasons why a variety of hemorrhagic fevers are both terrifying but ultimately not dangerous to the interstellar community at large: while extremely contagious, symptoms progress so rapidly that the reproduction rate in the population is actually impeded by it. In a way, this is why your common cold or flu is much more successful as a pathogen: the symptoms are such that it isn't uncommon for those infected to continue working, travelling, and passing the pathogen to others. Not so with the standard Kyonoke strain, where infection progresses so rapidly that the potential number of exposed is extremely small. This is, however, not the standard strain.
However, one must not forget that Kyonoke, being a prion, has a far more stable protein structure as to allow them to retain infectivity even under prolonged exposure to conditions that would denature a virus. They tend to linger around for much longer even after all potential hosts are eradicated. In the case of Kyonoke, it seemed like the prion could linger pretty much indefinitely even after all the hosts are dead. This would make the prion ideal for area denial attacks for anyone who wishes to utilise it as a weapon.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2951
|
Posted - 2017.02.17 03:25:18 -
[79] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:Pilots, a small update. The majority of the details are still classified, but it would appear this is not the same as the original strain. The slower action is in fact quite problematic. The major issue with any pathogen is the amount of time the infected have to pass the infection on before themselves becoming incapacitated. This is, for instance, one of the reasons why a variety of hemorrhagic fevers are both terrifying but ultimately not dangerous to the interstellar community at large: while extremely contagious, symptoms progress so rapidly that the reproduction rate in the population is actually impeded by it. In a way, this is why your common cold or flu is much more successful as a pathogen: the symptoms are such that it isn't uncommon for those infected to continue working, travelling, and passing the pathogen to others. Not so with the standard Kyonoke strain, where infection progresses so rapidly that the potential number of exposed is extremely small. This is, however, not the standard strain. However, one must not forget that Kyonoke, being a prion, has a far more stable protein structure as to allow them to retain infectivity even under prolonged exposure to conditions that would denature a virus. They tend to linger around for much longer even after all potential hosts are eradicated. In the case of Kyonoke, it seemed like the prion could linger pretty much indefinitely. This would make the prion ideal for area denial attacks for anyone who wishes to utilise it as a weapon.
It might be a little misleading to call it a prion, really. I mean, it's more like a tactical destroyer protein with "virus-like" (sharpshooter/propulsion) and "prion-like" (defensive) modes. Apparently it's not always so sturdy-- maybe there might be a way to force all of it into "advanced" form and then hit it with something that breaks it up? |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
2036
|
Posted - 2017.02.17 06:29:17 -
[80] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:Pilots, a small update. The majority of the details are still classified, but it would appear this is not the same as the original strain. The slower action is in fact quite problematic. The major issue with any pathogen is the amount of time the infected have to pass the infection on before themselves becoming incapacitated. This is, for instance, one of the reasons why a variety of hemorrhagic fevers are both terrifying but ultimately not dangerous to the interstellar community at large: while extremely contagious, symptoms progress so rapidly that the reproduction rate in the population is actually impeded by it. In a way, this is why your common cold or flu is much more successful as a pathogen: the symptoms are such that it isn't uncommon for those infected to continue working, travelling, and passing the pathogen to others. Not so with the standard Kyonoke strain, where infection progresses so rapidly that the potential number of exposed is extremely small. This is, however, not the standard strain. However, one must not forget that Kyonoke, being a prion, has a far more stable protein structure as to allow them to retain infectivity even under prolonged exposure to conditions that would denature a virus. They tend to linger around for much longer even after all potential hosts are eradicated. In the case of Kyonoke, it seemed like the prion could linger pretty much indefinitely. This would make the prion ideal for area denial attacks for anyone who wishes to utilise it as a weapon. It might be a little misleading to call it a prion, really. I mean, it's more like a tactical destroyer protein with "virus-like" (sharpshooter/propulsion) and "prion-like" (defensive) modes. Apparently it's not always so sturdy-- maybe there might be a way to force all of it into "advanced" form and then hit it with something that breaks it up?
You do realise that a prion is, by definition, a protein with virus-like infective and replicative ability, right? Only difference between Kyonoke and the other prions is that Kyonoke is airborne while the rest can only infect by direct ingestion of contaminated material.
The difference between a prion and a virus is that a virus carries genetic material while a prion doesn't. It replicates by simply attaching itself to a host protein and forces it to fold into an infectious structure that is identical to the prion's.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2953
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Posted - 2017.02.17 07:12:57 -
[81] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:You do realise that a prion is, by definition, a protein with virus-like infective and replicative ability, right? Only difference between Kyonoke and the other prions is that Kyonoke is airborne while the rest can only infect by direct ingestion of contaminated material.
The difference between a prion and a virus is that a virus carries genetic material while a prion doesn't. It replicates by simply attaching itself to a host protein and forces it to fold into an infectious structure that is identical to the prion's.
And yet the literature on Kyonoke consistently refers to it as a "speck" instead of a "prion." I'm guessing that's because the Kyonoke speck has some pretty anomalous characteristics as prions go. For instance: aggressive rapid-onset infection and only limited "lifespan" outside a host in its advanced configuration. I'm fuzzy on how that works, but, apparently it does.
Technical language isn't a magical or mechanical thing, Mr. Egivand; it neither dictates reality nor requires rigid adherence to preexisting structures. If you run into something that doesn't really fit the category it's in, you can make a new category. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9173
|
Posted - 2017.02.17 17:22:10 -
[82] - Quote
An update, pilots. Now, the spread of the Kyonoke pathogen is clearly some form of terror attack. At the same time, the timescale appears to be relatively more brief than we'd thought.
The notables from this report:
- The cordon was breached without Caldari Navy detection.
- The breach occurred some time within the last two weeks, which immediately precedes the first outbreaks.
- The method of transmission from this location to others is as-yet-unknown, but could have been directly to Oijanen, or directly to another location that then served as a hub for dispersal.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Doctor Valate
Delve Medical Services
81
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Posted - 2017.02.17 17:37:59 -
[83] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:An update, pilots. Now, the spread of the Kyonoke pathogen is clearly some form of terror attack. At the same time, the timescale appears to be relatively more brief than we'd thought.
Well, we can rule out some more hypotheses now. That narrows things down quite a bit.
Doctor Valerie Valate. Not to be confused with the other Valerie Valate.
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Mynxee
Signal Cartel
EvE-Scout Enclave
306
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Posted - 2017.02.17 17:41:59 -
[84] - Quote
I find myself wondering if someone who had an agenda against capsuleers could use this speck/prion to sabotage and infect the source material used to grow our clones. This occurred to me as I was pondering how capsuleers might escape the effects of an infected body by clone jumping. Now there is a sobering thought indeed. In keeping up with the fast moving news reports and speculation, I might have missed discussion about it elsewhere. Has IKAME or anyone addressed this angle yet?
Lost in space, looking for sigs...
Blog: Cloaky Wanderer
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1230
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Posted - 2017.02.17 17:44:04 -
[85] - Quote
Unfortunately, it doesn't make much difference in terms of what we can do about it. Our scientists have nothing to work with, our medical or engineering minded have little data to use in their preparation work and - fortunately - it doesn't appear that those of us of the more martial persuasion have any uses just yet.
So until more data is released, we remain at 'prepare, for damn near all eventualities' stages.
The only light at the end of this tunnel however, is that there is some malicious intent behind it, which means there's someone out there in dire need of experiencing the wrath of capsuleers first hand. |
Hetu Hegirin
Otherwhere Circle
54
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Posted - 2017.02.17 18:06:11 -
[86] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:- The method of transmission from this location to others is as-yet-unknown, but could have been directly to Oijanen, or directly to another location that then served as a hub for dispersal.
My initial suspicion is the Freedom Extension freight-handling platform, due in part to the timing. I must ask myself, why move the contagion from Taisy to Muttokon and not a Caldari freight hub? What made Muttokon a target?
Based on my calculations, there are several configurations of jump-capable ships that, if travelling from Taisy to Muttokon, would have to waypoint in Oijanen. |
Aradina Varren
Alexylva Paradox
88
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Posted - 2017.02.17 23:59:01 -
[87] - Quote
Oijanen has incredibly large amounts of cyno/Jump Freighter traffic. Narrowing it down would be impossible, however most of them simply cyno in and warp to highsec via Airaken. |
Aradina Varren
Alexylva Paradox
88
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Posted - 2017.02.18 14:20:27 -
[88] - Quote
And here it is.
So, that's two confirmed Kyonoke. It's a very censored release though. Doesn't tell us much except that it is Kyonoke, and that they knew that from day one. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9178
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Posted - 2017.02.18 17:25:29 -
[89] - Quote
Alright. Index post updated.
That's Postouvin and Oijanen. I wonder at the status of Muttokon and Efu.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1239
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Posted - 2017.02.18 17:33:21 -
[90] - Quote
Nothing new from our side. Local customs offices have been reinforced and will probably go pop tonight, but from a capsuleer point of view the system is otherwise pretty much quiet. Until the authorities release more information, or the press manages to get some anyway, we know nothing new here.
I know some people are working on getting information from groundside and trying to work out shipment and transit schedules and manifests, but we have nothing concrete as of yet. I'm sure they'll find something eventually, unless the authorities have sanitized the databanks even more vigorously than expected. |
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9188
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Posted - 2017.02.20 17:02:56 -
[91] - Quote
Index post update; Efu situation confirmed. It appears that the station's indeed suffering an outbreak of Kyonoke, and that the Society is taking direct involvement. Indeed, Elder Mentor Matshi Raish himself is taking the laudable step of overseeing the operation from the station itself.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
647
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Posted - 2017.02.20 22:33:00 -
[92] - Quote
They seem to be confident enough to contain it within the station and even stage their crisis center on board of it. Call me a fanboy now, but I like Matshi Raish's personal approach to this, it's inspiring.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
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Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
57
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Posted - 2017.02.21 00:04:32 -
[93] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Alright. Index post updated.
That's Postouvin and Oijanen. I wonder at the status of Muttokon and Efu.
It's Kyonoke there as well
I suspect something drastic will have to be done about the station since it will be a matter of time before it is considered a hazard.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9211
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Posted - 2017.02.22 17:15:14 -
[94] - Quote
Muttokon confirmed Kyonoke.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Hetu Hegirin
Otherwhere Circle
58
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Posted - 2017.02.22 17:20:43 -
[95] - Quote
RSS Conference has confirmed Kyonoke on Muttokon Freedom Extension platform.
Dreadful, but anticipated. Based on the specific fatality rate for the ten-day period leading up to the SoCT presser, I would not be surprised if the number of dead now in high orbit above Muttokon exceeded 150000.
Foremothers preserve your children. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9216
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Posted - 2017.02.25 17:53:37 -
[96] - Quote
An update, pilots. The circumstances surrounding this are unknown. However, this certainly explains the early presence of Home Guard troops in Myrskaa.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9243
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Posted - 2017.02.28 13:25:24 -
[97] - Quote
Another update, pilots. I apologize for the delay in posting this, as I've been away on consultations in Isseras.
We should soon know if the quarantines were enacted in time, given known incubation times.
The Kyonoke Response Group continues to advise delays on transit, preparation of a supply stockpile, and administrative preparations for new or expanded quarantine zones until such time as the crisis is past.
In the meantime, lack of information on the underlying criminal activity may result in hasty conclusions. We counsel patience.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Sinjin Mokk
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
1183
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Posted - 2017.02.28 15:24:22 -
[98] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:An update, pilots. Now, the spread of the Kyonoke pathogen is clearly some form of terror attack.]
I'm not entirely convinced this is a terror attack. It could easily be that one corporation or group within the State or Federation or Republic went in, took a sample and it got away from them. The sample they took was transported to the Republic where it caused the elevator outbreak. The subsequent outbreaks were caused by crew who had reshipped before the quarantine went into effect. A terrorist who was bent on causing several outbreaks would have targeted much more populated systems.
Consider these points:
1. The unprecedented involvement of the SoCT.
2. CONCORD and the SCOPE's continued attempts at distracting the general public with stories about Angel Cartel and Serpentis arrests.
3. The current incursion by Sansha forces at the EVE Gate systems and the silence of groups like the Servant Sisters of Eve.
4. No known terrorist group has come forward to claim responsibility.
In any criminal investigation, one must ask, "Who profits?" Who would profit from a terror attack on these backwater systems? Again and again, we can only speculate because facts are not easily wrested from the mouths of CONCORD.
"Angels live, they never die,
Apart from us, behind the sky.
They're fading souls who've turned to ice,
So ashen white in paradise."
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9246
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Posted - 2017.03.01 13:27:06 -
[99] - Quote
We will have to agree to disagree, Mr. Mokk. Given the inherent difficulty in controlling bioweapons, they make very little sense as a research target. What profit could be had?
That said, on to updates.
In the first place, a new Discourse has been released on recent developments.
In the second place, there was a frankly silly but related farce at a CEP meeting. Thearticle is linked.
In brief, on the second point, I would stress the aforementioned point on the difficulty of controlling bioweapons. If the Postouvin quarantine is breached, then there is no assurance that it will respect the Gallente-Caldari border. Ensuring containment is, as such, a truly interstellar concern.
Further updates as they occur.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9269
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Posted - 2017.03.03 16:17:58 -
[100] - Quote
News, pilots! The Society is convening an inquest at the Postouvin facility under construction.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Lauralite Anne Brezia
Wolf Brothers INC
United Neopian Federation
3
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Posted - 2017.03.03 16:35:36 -
[101] - Quote
I'll be keeping my eyes out in that direction. I have a JClone setup in Solitude as it stands, so whenever the SoCT structure is finished and access granted to capsuleers, I can be onsite shortly there afterward if I'm not already in the area dealing with UNF containment resources.
You want to know where I'm from huh? Well, it's a long way, and several Spacial Rifts removed, from this place.
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Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
80
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Posted - 2017.03.03 17:13:28 -
[102] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:News, pilots! The Society is convening an inquest at the Postouvin facility under construction.
Funny how this was a topic on the IGS Chat last night.
I find Elder Mentor Matshi Raish's comments to be... interesting
After all he is asking the Empires that have been afflicted to come together with the brightest minds to solve the issue something to my knowledge that has never happened
If this is a real Inquest, would not CONCORD be the authority to oversee such an unprecedented issue? Also are we looking at a criminal or medical situation?
There are many questions with this latest development.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9297
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Posted - 2017.03.04 16:02:35 -
[103] - Quote
CONCORD has not demonstrated much leadership on these sorts of things since its failed Operation Specter in YC115.
To be frank, that this effort is being undertaken by the Society, instead, gives me hope for a positive outcome.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9306
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Posted - 2017.03.05 03:07:04 -
[104] - Quote
Not sure this is news. Evidently Gallente civilians are concerned about the loss of rights of the civilians inside the Myrskaa quarantine zone.
Needless to say, quarantine shouldn't be breached because someone light years away is concerned about a single person. A quarantine breach could kill millions or billions.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
2075
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Posted - 2017.03.05 03:21:13 -
[105] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Not sure this is news. Evidently Gallente civilians are concerned about the loss of rights of the civilians inside the Myrskaa quarantine zone. Needless to say, quarantine shouldn't be breached because someone light years away is concerned about a single person. A quarantine breach could kill millions or billions.
Classic Gallente! Freedom for all no matter the cost and no matter the consequence, they say!
I am going to exasperate over their stupidity. I am going to do it right now.
Spawn of a motherless female dog!
I need an entire bottle of whiskey.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9306
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Posted - 2017.03.05 03:24:03 -
[106] - Quote
I'll admit, Elmund, there are times when I sort of feel bad for those of you in the FDU.
Because, get this, those people have a say in your government.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
2077
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Posted - 2017.03.05 03:30:47 -
[107] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:I'll admit, Elmund, there are times when I sort of feel bad for those of you in the FDU.
Because, get this, those people have a say in your government.
And the FDU rep wonders why I kept binning the citizenship application forms and deleting them from my Evemail.
I will take a second bottle of whiskey.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Julianni Avala
Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
183
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Posted - 2017.03.05 03:31:02 -
[108] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Not sure this is news. Evidently Gallente civilians are concerned about the loss of rights of the civilians inside the Myrskaa quarantine zone. Needless to say, quarantine shouldn't be breached because someone light years away is concerned about a single person. A quarantine breach could kill millions or billions.
This is most troubling. It's understandable they'd be concerned over the rights of their people, just as most everyone elsewhere is concerned about those being held in quarantine across New Eden. But we all must look at the bigger picture here. As Priano-haani said, a quarantine breach would only make things worse.
I pray deeply that this does not escalate. If these protests turn violent and action has to be taken against them, it will only further fuel the fires that are beginning to be fed when it comes to "Us versus Them". Not only this, but if the nano-dome is breached, then may God have mercy on the entire planet.
We all must try to look at this rationally. Fighting against each other will help no one but whomever set this all up. They are likely watching this all with a smile on their face.
Chief Financial Officer, Head Diplomat
I-RED GalNet Site
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
2078
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Posted - 2017.03.05 03:46:07 -
[109] - Quote
The Gallente Humanist Association has at least one Alpha capsuleer in their ranks, which means that at least one of these protesting parties has the capability to get off-world and go do something really stupid in a quarantine zone. That means the worst possibility is well within their reach: sending a whole bunch of knuckleheads in bright t-shirts and holo-placards storming the nano-dome generators in an ill-advised attempt to free the quarantined citizens.
Let's hope they do not have the guts to do such a thing and stick to protesting outside the government buildings and being very annoying.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Doctor Valate
Delve Medical Services
88
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Posted - 2017.03.05 10:01:19 -
[110] - Quote
There may be a way to safely study the Kyonoke agent inside the quarantine zone, and to begin cleanup measures.
I am unsure about whether infected persons can be treated by this method though.
Doctor Valerie Valate. Not to be confused with the other Valerie Valate.
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1358
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Posted - 2017.03.05 10:58:01 -
[111] - Quote
One concern of theirs, the protestors that is, seems valid. It shouldn't be even remotely difficult to organize one-way unmanned deliveries of supplies and such into the quarantined areas. If there are still survivors in there, at any rate. So if "supplies are running low, with no further shipments of resources being permitted to pass through the cordon for more than a week" is the case, you have to wonder what's going on.
The Megas are many things, but they're not that incompetent nor lacking in the resources needed to do these things.
Odd to say the least. |
Julianni Avala
Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
183
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Posted - 2017.03.05 11:04:15 -
[112] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:One concern of theirs, the protestors that is, seems valid. It shouldn't be even remotely difficult to organize one-way unmanned deliveries of supplies and such into the quarantined areas. If there are still survivors in there, at any rate. So if "supplies are running low, with no further shipments of resources being permitted to pass through the cordon for more than a week" is the case, you have to wonder what's going on.
The Megas are many things, but they're not that incompetent nor lacking in the resources needed to do these things.
Odd to say the least.
As much as I hate to say it, the stopping of supplies may mean that those within the city are believed to be lost. It would be inefficient to deliver supplies when the people are either dead or on their deathbed. I don't mean to say that without heart. But it's the only reason I can think that they'd stop.
Chief Financial Officer, Head Diplomat
I-RED GalNet Site
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1358
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Posted - 2017.03.05 11:24:47 -
[113] - Quote
It is a possibility, but without confirmation of this eventuality the concerns raised remain valid. When they do not release this sort of information, it is only to be expected that there will be... reactions.
I am frankly surprised there hasn't been more violent attempts so far. |
Julianni Avala
Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
185
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Posted - 2017.03.05 11:27:22 -
[114] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:I am frankly surprised there hasn't been more violent attempts so far.
I wouldn't be surprised if there were soon.
Chief Financial Officer, Head Diplomat
I-RED GalNet Site
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TomHorn
Dragonaurs
281
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Posted - 2017.03.06 19:55:27 -
[115] - Quote
Gallente citizens should not expect any preferential treatment, everyone is being treated the same.
I dont mean to give any offence or to lay it on pretty thick, but i dont think any Gallente or citizens of any nation will be coming out of Myrskaa alive. Risk of making a mistake , by allowing someone out, that turns out to be infected by the pathogen , is to great a risk for the State to permit. Unless a cure is found , i think all inside Myrskaa will die.
Im sure, the State intelligence services are keeping close eye on the political climate within the Federation. Just in case , pressure from protest groups becomes to great and their government feels it needs to take action. |
Jack Jomar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
48
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Posted - 2017.03.07 13:24:11 -
[116] - Quote
While I can understand the concerns of my fellow citizens, my only response would be "What about the rights of the expatriate Gallenteans who have NOT been infected yet?".
Does something need to be done? Yes. Are the powers that be doing it? Probably, although we cannot currently see it (at least, not in any detail beyond the press releases). Should a bunch of protesters get involved? Only if they wish to get themselves and bunch of other innocents killed to assuage their need for action.
I feel bad for those who have lost, or are at least in the process of very probably losing their loved ones. But that doesn't make it right for them to endanger those who have avoided this catastrophe. It's harsh, but unless the SoCT can come up with something, it's what we have to live with, whether we like it or not.
So while the protesters are rightfully complaining about rights, the situation is this - the rights of the people dead or dying in that contamination zone end at the point of the rights of those who have not yet been infected to, y'know, not be infected. Just like the right of someone swinging their arms around ends at the point where another persons right not to get hit in the nose begins.
We should not be opening the borders of those zones. Instead, research and possible testing and deployment of cures within those zones is what is needed, if possible. These are the politics and rights of what is necessary to do the most good for the most people, both infected and non-infected.
My Wordpress Blog
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Skyweir Kinnison
The Scope
Gallente Federation
401
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Posted - 2017.03.08 08:31:49 -
[117] - Quote
Once again, people here misunderstand the nature of liberty and democracy.
I am the first to admit that the named organisations are prone to going off the deep end prematurely, but they are not fundamentally protesting that infected persons should be released from quarantine. They are raising the legitimate concern that the Caldari State - known for its brutal dismissal of individual rights - is deliberately starving the trapped millions to save a little money. They may be lost, but deserve a decent fate. It would be more humane to eradicate the zone, but of course that might mean the State which has already landed us all in this terror through seeking an advantage without due care and attention, might have to forego yet more illegal experimentation.
If those quarantined are already dead, say so. If they're not, feed them for Pity's sake.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
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TomHorn
Dragonaurs
283
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Posted - 2017.03.08 13:32:09 -
[118] - Quote
It is difficult situation, that is unfolding on Myrskaa. State are handling it with the due care and attention it requires, for those that remain inside the city and the families outside awaiting news, they are doing everything they can. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1368
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Posted - 2017.03.08 13:34:50 -
[119] - Quote
Except feeding them and providing them with necessary supplies and such. Because reasons. |
TomHorn
Dragonaurs
283
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 15:25:36 -
[120] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Except feeding them and providing them with necessary supplies and such. Because reasons.
I've heard those rumors Mizhara ,i cannot confirm or deny if they are true. If supplies are being stopped, im sure there will be an official statement about it.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3053
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Posted - 2017.03.08 16:19:45 -
[121] - Quote
Considering the virulence and lethality of the Kyonoke speck, I'd really be surprised if there was anyone in those places left alive. And, if they are, it's not like they could move safely to reach supplies.
Also, sending supplies means opening defenses, however briefly, which means risking letting the contamination spread.
We're in a plague scenario. Kindness ... I really like kind people, and I try not to be awful to people myself. In a case like this, though....
It could bury us all. |
Yuwei Sung
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.03.08 16:24:04 -
[122] - Quote
I would guess they're scared so stiff of the pathogen that no one wants to crack open the bubble and deliver the food. Kyonoke has borderline mystical reputation at this point.
Edit: Oh dear, someone beat me to my point five minutes ago! |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3053
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Posted - 2017.03.08 16:38:36 -
[123] - Quote
Yuwei Sung wrote:I would guess they're scared so stiff of the pathogen that no one wants to crack open the bubble and deliver the food. Kyonoke has borderline mystical reputation at this point.
Edit: Oh dear, someone beat me to my point five minutes ago!
Uh ... maybe kind of, but I think you're playing it in terms of people's motivations rather than the reasons.
One thing I'd like to respectfully mention, Ms. Sung: talking about something like "mystical reputation" makes it sound like an urban legend. It isn't one. It's a real thing with really anomalous and scary characteristics, including breaching environment suits. It's already bypassed a couple smaller-scale quarantines on its way to our current apparently-stable situation.
It's pretty important not to understate how deadly this stuff is. At this point, arguments based in dispassionate threat analysis can be hard to distinguish from arguments founded in irrational fear and panic. Given places like the Federation where public sentiment can have a lot of sway over the course of events, it's going to be a little important to control public perceptions.
If they start to think the threat's being overstated and the authorities are being needlessly cruel out of cowardice ... well. We're already maybe seeing a little of what will happen. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1368
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 16:39:02 -
[124] - Quote
It would frankly be child's play to use unmanned cargo drones for such purposes, and if the idea is that everyone are already dead then it should be an equally simple matter to simply make that announcement. Unless you're claiming these forces are so staggeringly inept and incompetent that they can't achieve some very simple one-way deliveries into a quarantine area.
It's got exactly **** all to do with 'kindness' and everything to do with basic humanity and the immeasurable worth of doing whatever can be done to preserve any survivors for information gathering purposes on top of that basic measure of humanitarian aid. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3053
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 16:45:57 -
[125] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:It would frankly be child's play to use unmanned cargo drones for such purposes, and if the idea is that everyone are already dead then it should be an equally simple matter to simply make that announcement. Unless you're claiming these forces are so staggeringly inept and incompetent that they can't achieve some very simple one-way deliveries into a quarantine area.
It's got exactly **** all to do with 'kindness' and everything to do with basic humanity and the immeasurable worth of doing whatever can be done to preserve any survivors for information gathering purposes on top of that basic measure of humanitarian aid.
Passing an unmanned cargo drone is still passing something, Miz. In the case of self-contained orbital facilities, maybe that's doable without risk. In the case of a planetary city, though ... (I admit that's mostly what I was thinking of) ... or of a few sealed decks on an otherwise-unaffected station.... |
Jev North
Anshar Incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
699
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 16:59:18 -
[126] - Quote
I'd love to speak in defense of the basic respect for humanity of the State.
But I couldn't say what's really going on. I'm not an expert on extreme biohazard quarantine procedures, city-sized nanoshield operation, don't have boots on the ground, and am certainly not going to wildly speculate on happenings based on vague rumors as told by possibly biased sources.
But hey! Here's a Scope piece heavily implying things.
Maybe State officials really are a bunch of monsters!
To err is human, to forgive divine; neither are alliance policy.
|
Yuwei Sung
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 17:02:31 -
[127] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Uh ... maybe kind of, but I think you're playing it in terms of people's motivations rather than the reasons.
One thing I'd like to respectfully mention, Ms. Sung: talking about something like "mystical reputation" makes it sound like an urban legend. It isn't one. It's a real thing with really anomalous and scary characteristics, including breaching environment suits. It's already bypassed a couple smaller-scale quarantines on its way to our current apparently-stable situation.
It's pretty important not to understate how deadly this stuff is. At this point, arguments based in dispassionate threat analysis can be hard to distinguish from arguments founded in irrational fear and panic. Given places like the Federation where public sentiment can have a lot of sway over the course of events, it's going to be a little important to control public perceptions.
If they start to think the threat's being overstated and the authorities are being needlessly cruel out of cowardice ... well. We're already maybe seeing a little of what will happen.
I just meant in the sense that you brought up the notion of "Maybe it would be a bad idea to open the doors even for a minute", as an explanation re: the apparent starving of the city population, which other people seemed to be overlooking. You did frame it as logical rather than emotional, though I'll comment I never said it was an unjust state of terror!
Neither did I say that said mystical reputation was unfairly earned. Hopefully anyone reading didn't take me as downplaying the legitimately (at present) inexplicable properties of the pathogen, and the threat it represents.
However, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the plague has sort of come to be viewed as a sort of unstoppable, pseudo-divine force like a pandemic of yore, and not a problem to be reasonably solved. Which is stupid. It isn't a problem yet, but excessive caution in dealing with it could eventually become crippling. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1368
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 17:08:23 -
[128] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Mizhara Del'thul wrote:It would frankly be child's play to use unmanned cargo drones for such purposes, and if the idea is that everyone are already dead then it should be an equally simple matter to simply make that announcement. Unless you're claiming these forces are so staggeringly inept and incompetent that they can't achieve some very simple one-way deliveries into a quarantine area.
It's got exactly **** all to do with 'kindness' and everything to do with basic humanity and the immeasurable worth of doing whatever can be done to preserve any survivors for information gathering purposes on top of that basic measure of humanitarian aid. Passing an unmanned cargo drone is still passing something, Miz. In the case of self-contained orbital facilities, maybe that's doable without risk. In the case of a planetary city, though ... (I admit that's mostly what I was thinking of) ... or of a few sealed decks on an otherwise-unaffected station....
Step one: Filled cargo drones placed at quarantine perimeter in suitable area.
Step two: Expand quarantine in that location to cover the cargo drones and the entry point.
Step three: Send in cargo drones.
Insert situation specific technology or resources as required, no outwards breach even remotely possible.
We have mastered one way delivery systems in every other situation that requires it since before any of us bothered lobbing bits of tech or people into space. This is not even remotely difficult to achieve in any way, so that begs the question: Why is it not being done? I refuse to believe they are so unbelievably useless that they can't put this into action safely and effectively, so something else must be the reason. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3054
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 17:12:17 -
[129] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:I refuse to believe they are so unbelievably useless that they can't put this into action safely and effectively, so something else must be the reason.
It might be a technical problem. Do you know what the characteristics of a "nanoshield" are, Miz? 'Cause I don't.
There's a probably quite dead city on one side of this one, and a whole planetary population on the other, so I think they're going to be reluctant to do anything that requires them to, oh, say, switch it off, even briefly. |
Ashihei Shikkoken
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 17:13:20 -
[130] - Quote
Jev North wrote:But hey! Here's a Scope piece heavily implying things.
Sure would like to know who among State Peacekeepers has been leaking information to the Scope.
Also, those protesting should know, escalating the situation with STPC won't end well. See New Caldari Prime YC115.
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NOH pé+pâüpé+pâ¦
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|
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1368
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 17:18:04 -
[131] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Mizhara Del'thul wrote:I refuse to believe they are so unbelievably useless that they can't put this into action safely and effectively, so something else must be the reason. It might be a technical problem. Do you know what the characteristics of a "nanoshield" are, Miz? 'Cause I don't. There's a probably quite dead city on one side of this one, and a whole planetary population on the other, so I think they're going to be reluctant to do anything that requires them to, oh, say, switch it off, even briefly.
Always a possibility, but it sounds more like an excuse to cave to cowardice to me. If there are people still alive in there, they've damn well earned a fighting chance. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3055
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 17:45:24 -
[132] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Always a possibility, but it sounds more like an excuse to cave to cowardice to me. If there are people still alive in there, they've damn well earned a fighting chance.
Maybe. It's possible my cultural background just makes me more trusting of authority. I remember there was some speculation about Caldari (and associated peoples, because: Achur) needing to be "told what to do" back when I gave my oath to the Praefecta, and there might be a little truth to that. (Whether it's really about cultural background or not, I, personally, definitely take orders a little too well.)
Also, the Caldari have this kind of ethic where it's perfectly okay to cut people loose if they become a threat to your community's survival, or even just a troublesome burden (how troublesome varies).
Actually, it's pretty much a responsibility to do exactly that. If it's a hard winter and food's run low, it's maybe time for Grandmother and Grandfather to go join the Ancestors. And, if Grandfather doesn't want to go, it's maybe Eldest Son's responsibility to kick him out the door. Being able to carry out that kind of heart-wrenching duty is part of the Caldari definition of strength.
That might be what's at work. Or, it could be the other, more technical, thing. Or, yes, fear, maybe.
But, Miz, we're not really in a very good position to speculate, or to judge. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1368
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 17:55:15 -
[133] - Quote
Apparently not, according to the latest release the SoCT has begun "genetic research on the latest strain of Kyonoke, in an attempt to "either create a vaccine, or an inhibitor with the intention of limiting the spread of the deadly pathogen"."
Genetic research. On a prion.
Apparently the reports of it being even remotely related to a prion disease was nonsense, or this report is nonsense, or...
Spirits below, is there really nothing reported on this damned travesty that can be taken at face value? There's so much disinformation, intentional or not, that you almost have to assume it's intentional. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9318
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 17:59:04 -
[134] - Quote
It's not exactly uncommon for journalists to lack technical background.
You'd think they'd have their biotech commentators review it but, well, news agencies want the news out yesterday.
Edit: The latest new, as Ms. Del'thul indicates, is on the construction and continued development of the Kyonoke Inquest facility in Postouvin.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3055
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 18:20:04 -
[135] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Apparently not, according to the latest release the SoCT has begun "genetic research on the latest strain of Kyonoke, in an attempt to "either create a vaccine, or an inhibitor with the intention of limiting the spread of the deadly pathogen"."
Genetic research. On a prion.
Apparently the reports of it being even remotely related to a prion disease was nonsense, or this report is nonsense, or...
Spirits below, is there really nothing reported on this damned travesty that can be taken at face value? There's so much disinformation, intentional or not, that you almost have to assume it's intentional.
Oh, dear. Okay.
Uh ... going to indulge in a bit of wild speculation, now.
Let's set aside the possibility of this being some Ancient-created nano-plague with some components (like nanite factories) we're not being told about. 'Cause if Ancient tech is actively involved, it might have properties that may as well be magic. To this day we don't completely understand the principles behind some of the reverse-engineered stuff we use daily. The example I know of for sure is Takmahl shield emitters; it's where the Caldari got a lot of their shield tech. We know how to build them, but not, on a deep level, why they work.
Let's leave all that out.
So ... the Kyonoke speck has two configurations we know of: a virus-like "advanced" configuration and a prion-like "basic" configuration. Let's assume for now that these really are the only two forms.
What if ... the Kyonoke speck's advanced form really is a virus? As in, full-fledged quasi-microorganism that invades cells and repurposes them to make more of itself. Exactly what we think of as a virus. This virus, like any virus, is subject to mutation. It also has a limited lifespan, and doesn't stick around for all that long outside a host.
Only: in addition to viral structures, cells infected with advanced Kyonoke also produce the "basic" Kyonoke prion.
Basic Kyonoke prions act mostly like normal prions. They're highly stable, can lurk just about anywhere indefinitely, and take much longer to cause disease. Only-- what if "basic" Kyonoke prions can latch on or wedge into DNA strands (which are, themselves, proteins, after all) and set the cell up to make advanced Kyonoke?
If we assume that the prions will eventually break down an unusually wide variety of protein structures into more prions, which then either individually or in some numbers have very limited but not statistically-insignificant odds of creating an advanced-form spawning cell, a situation might arise in which the odds of generating an advanced-form infection approach certainty.
Thus, the two forms aren't matters of a single speck having two configurations, but of a single "species" of disease producing two types of pathogen.
(Still doesn't explain the ability to bypass airtight seals, though.)
This would also mean that there really is a genetic code to study-- it just exists only in advanced Kyonoke.
Thoughts? |
Jev North
Anshar Incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
699
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 18:30:20 -
[136] - Quote
Nanomachines.
To err is human, to forgive divine; neither are alliance policy.
|
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1369
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 18:31:34 -
[137] - Quote
The disinformation, lack of information and general unwillingness to provide even the slightest of information that could allow the significant resources of capsuleer researchers and the countless baseliner employees we can leverage to provide this sort of help is starting to grate.
We are weeks into this situation and every damn one of our governments are clamming up to the point where it's damn near starting to look malicious. I swear by every spirit, soul and place I hold dear someone will die over this if it turns out their greed and power mongering is putting my people further at risk through this campaign of information blackout.
Solitude being a tad far from Muttokon, and separated by multiple logistical nightmare systems at that, the apparently inept Republic government had better start showing they are doing something beyond just sitting on a Kyonoke bomb waiting for it to go off, or people are going to start taking matters into their own hands and surgically cut off from such things, we capsuleers can't even help stop that from happening.
That this situation isn't a result of either massive incompetence or outright malice is starting to become a serious stretch at this point.
Edit: @Aria
All too possible, all too impossible to test and falsify without a damn sight more information. I'd rather not speculate too much about such doomsday scenarios when we have a demonstrable history of corrupt, power hungry and outright malicious governments not acting in our people's interests to begin with.
Either way, we're sitting here with our thumbs up our arses without the information needed to do anything we weren't already doing weeks and weeks ago and that was wearing thin already then. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3055
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 18:52:14 -
[138] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:That this situation isn't a result of either massive incompetence or outright malice is starting to become a serious stretch at this point.
Uh-- Miz? Again, maybe I'm just over-trusting of authority, but, it seems like if all five points of the CONCORD star are keeping mum it's probably for a very good reason.
I mean, of the various sins laid at the Federation's door (self-righteousness, cultural imperialism, encouraging lewd and licentious behavior, naively maintaining an unsustainable and chaos-prone form of government), malice is probably the least-common.
In order for this to be the case, all of the following must be true:
1. The SOCT is malicious. (Pretty sure they're not incompetent; they're keeping an infection quarantined in a limited region of a densely-inhabited station.)
2. The Empire is malicious or incompetent.
3. The State is malicious. (Again, they stopped a planetside outbreak, so, probably not incompetent.)
4. The Republic is malicious or incompetent.
5. The Federation is incompetent. (Because, again: malicious? Maybe if you're Ms. Kim.)
Does that really scan in any way at all? It seems like supposing something like that of all five, often venomously-opposed, governments is the stretch.
What I'm getting from this is that what they're facing is something scary and bad (we kind of knew that), and there are quite a few people who would take very destructive advantage if they were clear on how to do that (we kind of knew that, too).
We don't have need to know, Miz. Probably it's safer that we don't. Data outlining safe interaction with Kyonoke also would indirectly outline how to safely transport and release it. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1369
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 19:07:46 -
[139] - Quote
Your naivete is endearing but in this case rather limiting. Every last one of our governments have a history of significant malice and underhandedness. The RSS has a fairly nasty history, the Federation's ugly underside has surfaced quite a few times even just in our careers as capsuleers, the State's Megacorporations and its culture is a prime example of one where sacrificing "for the greater good", i.e. more money and power to shareholders is common and given the Empire's willingness to inflict horror, slavery and destruction upon entire nations when it can I somewhat doubt they're above such things.
Yes, it most certainly scans that all these governments are more than willing and able to suppress information for as long as possible while trying to gain as much as possible in terms of bioweapon data and more. So far, the SoCT seems to be the only ones willing to part with even a fraction of the information they gather.
The simple fact of the matter is that they're not even willing to release information on whether or not there's survivors left in those sites, or any other of the countless pieces of information related to this situation that would pose absolutely zero danger to anyone.
You'll have to forgive me, but blind obedience towards those who have in the past proven more than once that they are more than capable of malicious intent is morally and ethically abhorrent to me. If they want me obedient and loyal, they have to damn well earn it. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3055
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 19:31:49 -
[140] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Your naivete is endearing but in this case rather limiting.
At the moment it seems to be "limiting" how much I feel like complaining about stuff that's beyond my power to change.
Anyway, considering the recent quarrel in the Caldari CEP over sharing information with the Federation, I don't think everybody's just hunkering down with their own little troves of secrets and trying to weaponize any possible advantage. ... much as Lai Dai and KK apparently might want to. |
|
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Hetu Hegirin
Otherwhere Circle
75
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 19:32:03 -
[141] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Solitude being a tad far from Muttokon, and separated by multiple logistical nightmare systems at that, the apparently inept Republic government had better start showing they are doing something beyond just sitting on a Kyonoke bomb waiting for it to go off, or people are going to start taking matters into their own hands and surgically cut off from such things, we capsuleers can't even help stop that from happening.
I have contacted Administrator Etbald with regard to this point. Given the cool reception ceded by Valklear General Elislar at the onset of the crisis, I do not anticipate much of a response. Perhaps word will circulate in a productive way, but I am doubtful. I would encourage concerned parties to contact their Tribal MPs in what manner is permitted by their Clans.
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Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1920
|
Posted - 2017.03.09 00:03:16 -
[142] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:2. The Empire is malicious or incompetent.
Certainly not this one either, as the Empire controls none of the current infection sites directly. There's been absolutely no word on our end about actions taken or stances to be held.
Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle
Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Lord Consort of House Sarum
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Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
88
|
Posted - 2017.03.09 01:07:26 -
[143] - Quote
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:2. The Empire is malicious or incompetent. Certainly not this one either, as the Empire controls none of the current infection sites directly. There's been absolutely no word on our end about actions taken or stances to be held.
And yet it was in Imperial Space. True they do not own the station around Efu.
But to even allow Kyonoke to exist inside Imperial borders does make one asks awkward questions about maliciousness and incompetence.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3060
|
Posted - 2017.03.09 04:36:56 -
[144] - Quote
Casserina Leshrac wrote:And yet it was in Imperial Space. True they do not own the station around Efu.
But to even allow Kyonoke to exist inside Imperial borders does make one asks awkward questions about maliciousness and incompetence.
Uh ... considering that it's basically undetectable until someone gets sick, Ms. Leshrac, I'm not sure it's being asked such a question that's awkward. |
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
726
|
Posted - 2017.03.09 12:31:23 -
[145] - Quote
The mistake all of you are making is thinking that Kyonoke is a purely natural, scientific phenomena that obeys scientific laws. Thus, you are all confused when the contagion seems to violate those laws (by being a prion with DNA or by somehow penetrating filters that by all accounts should be too small for it to pass through).
Instead, think of Kyonoke like the Bright Star that destroyed the Jove. It violated scientific laws, because it was an Act of God. Kyonoke is a tool sent by God to his Chosen that we might weaponize it and complete the genocidal extermination of the Minmatar people and finally dissolve this rotting corpse of the Golden Age into the glorious new Blood Age that awaits us. All of you so-called Imperial Loyalists should stop trying to send aid and instead get your Minmatar slaves infected in order that we might spread their infection among the Minmatar people.
Even so, may the Blood Age come quickly. Amen. Amarr Victor. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3060
|
Posted - 2017.03.09 13:37:02 -
[146] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:It violated scientific laws, because it was an Act of God. Kyonoke is a tool sent by God to his Chosen that we might weaponize it and complete the genocidal extermination of the Minmatar people and finally dissolve this rotting corpse of the Golden Age into the glorious new Blood Age that awaits us.
For something supernatural, it seems like it's responding well to current containment methods: nanoshield, whatever that is; whatever the SoCT has done to keep it from spreading through their station. Maybe those are secretly mystical rites or something, though. The SoCT does have a theocratic history, so, I guess you'd probably say that they're keeping the unfortunate souls you sent to that station from becoming infected through wicked profane rituals.
Given your deity's preferences, I'm guessing defying Him involves drawing arcane sigils on the bulkheads with gumdrops or something. |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
2081
|
Posted - 2017.03.09 14:32:38 -
[147] - Quote
If it appears supernatural, it means we do not understand it enough, not because it's magic.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3063
|
Posted - 2017.03.09 14:36:19 -
[148] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:If it appears supernatural, it means we do not understand it enough, not because it's magic.
Uh, Mr. Egivand, very respectfully, I think this statement is a little lost on both the people it looks like you might have aimed it at. For exactly opposite reasons. |
Yuwei Sung
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2017.03.09 14:56:03 -
[149] - Quote
I was reading Nauplius's post and getting excited to cite it as an example of what I was talking about yesterday, but then I got to the end and now am not sure quite what to think. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3063
|
Posted - 2017.03.09 15:06:25 -
[150] - Quote
Yuwei Sung wrote:I was reading Nauplius's post and getting excited to cite it as an example of what I was talking about yesterday, but then I got to the end and now am not sure quite what to think.
In most things, Mr. Nauplius is kind of an outlier.
A little context: his response to this was to thank me for revealing some secrets of Achur occultism and ask me for more. Which, I might very well produce at some point in a similar spirit.
If I do, I expect his reaction to those will be similar: he'll mine them for any little bit of occult insight he can derive. |
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Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
726
|
Posted - 2017.03.09 21:52:17 -
[151] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:For something supernatural, it seems like it's responding well to current containment methods: nanoshield, whatever that is; whatever the SoCT has done to keep it from spreading through their station. Maybe those are secretly mystical rites or something, though. The SoCT does have a theocratic history, so, I guess you'd probably say that they're keeping the unfortunate souls you sent to that station from becoming infected through wicked profane rituals.
Given your deity's preferences, I'm guessing defying Him involves drawing arcane sigils on the bulkheads with gumdrops or something.
You always have the most brilliant ideas, Ms. Jenneth. I had not considered that the SoCT might have contained Kyonoke
on its station (and thus prevented the infection of the slaves I delivered there) by means of arcane warding. I shall begin demonic magickal operations against these wards immediately. |
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
91
|
Posted - 2017.03.09 22:03:14 -
[152] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Yuwei Sung wrote:I was reading Nauplius's post and getting excited to cite it as an example of what I was talking about yesterday, but then I got to the end and now am not sure quite what to think. In most things, Mr. Nauplius is kind of an outlier. A little context: his response to this was to thank me for revealing some secrets of Achur occultism and ask me for more. Which, I might very well produce at some point in a similar spirit. If I do, I expect his reaction to those will be similar: he'll mine them for any little bit of occult insight he can derive.
Ms. Jenneth,
I really do enjoy seeing another Faith at work. I too would like to view a copy.
You have my word that I will not use it for any purpose aside to assuage my curiosity.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3073
|
Posted - 2017.03.10 01:36:35 -
[153] - Quote
Casserina Leshrac wrote:Ms. Jenneth,
I really do enjoy seeing another Faith at work. I too would like to view a copy.
You have my word that I will not use it for any purpose aside to assuage my curiosity.
....
....
... oh, gods and spirits....
.... ....
... ... ... okay.
....
Dear Diary,
My budding career as a satirist seems to be doomed. On the upside, I might have stumbled into an accidental career as a witch and adviser on occult matters to various Sani Sabik. I wonder if I can sell one of them this tritanium mine I opened on New Caldari last month.
Note to self: remember to order more leftover soup from the occult supply store.
-A |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1376
|
Posted - 2017.03.10 02:00:11 -
[154] - Quote
And now the witch tries to play her horrifying displays of eldritch brewmancy off as 'satire' to avoid facing divine justice for her heresy.
She must burn! |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9321
|
Posted - 2017.03.10 02:06:42 -
[155] - Quote
Will the newts please raise a hand?
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
2084
|
Posted - 2017.03.10 02:52:08 -
[156] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Will the newts please raise a hand?
I got better.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Lauralite Anne Brezia
Wolf Brothers INC
United Neopian Federation
3
|
Posted - 2017.03.10 09:01:44 -
[157] - Quote
All these individuals jumping to arcana... Shouldn't be trifling with such so quickly as the answer.
In any case, not sure how many people were turned into newts.
You want to know where I'm from huh? Well, it's a long way, and several Spacial Rifts removed, from this place.
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Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
726
|
Posted - 2017.03.10 12:23:34 -
[158] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:
....
....
... oh, gods and spirits....
.... ....
... ... ... okay.
....
Dear Diary,
My budding career as a satirist seems to be doomed. On the upside, I might have stumbled into an accidental career as a witch and adviser on occult matters to various Sani Sabik. I wonder if I can sell one of them this tritanium mine I opened on New Caldari last month.
Note to self: remember to order more leftover soup from the occult supply store.
-A
Ms. Jenneth GÇö
Please provide a translation for this latest spell; while I can feel the occult rhythm phrases like "... ... ... okay", I do need to know which Achuran spirit is being summoned by such incantations. Also, I don't know why you think I would want a tritanium mine on New Caldari. While my Mehatoor system home is rather poor in asteroid fields, it still contains enough Veldspar to produce frigates and destroyers, which are all I really need. I also don't understand your need for leftover soup; in my tradition, the liquids used in occult operations tend to be blood or holy water, and I rather think your people's use of leftover soup instead would constitute a significant downgrade of spiritual potential, unless you've somehow preserved partial knowledge of a deeply primordial rite that used such soup.
|
Jev North
Anshar Incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
704
|
Posted - 2017.03.10 13:40:47 -
[159] - Quote
What state of mind were you in when you figured out it was a toilet? Can you try summoning that again?
To err is human, to forgive divine; neither are alliance policy.
|
Yuwei Sung
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2017.03.10 14:03:41 -
[160] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:Ms. Jenneth GÇö
Please provide a translation for this latest spell; while I can feel the occult rhythm phrases like "... ... ... okay", I do need to know which Achuran spirit is being summoned by such incantations. Also, I don't know why you think I would want a tritanium mine on New Caldari. While my Mehatoor system home is rather poor in asteroid fields, it still contains enough Veldspar to produce frigates and destroyers, which are all I really need. I also don't understand your need for leftover soup; in my tradition, the liquids used in occult operations tend to be blood or holy water, and I rather think your people's use of leftover soup instead would constitute a significant downgrade of spiritual potential, unless you've somehow preserved partial knowledge of a deeply primordial rite that used such soup.
Mr. Nauplius/Whatever your last name is if that isn't it, I can't pretend to know you well, but you're doing like, a bit, right? Not to say you haven't killed a lot of people or what-have-you - I've heard enough about that - But this is just a farce to dress the whole thing up. You can't say things like this and expect people to believe you're a real human being.
Come on, fess up. |
|
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3078
|
Posted - 2017.03.10 14:44:48 -
[161] - Quote
Yuwei Sung wrote:Mr. Nauplius/Whatever your last name is if that isn't it, I can't pretend to know you well, but you're doing like, a bit, right? Not to say you haven't killed a lot of people or what-have-you - I've heard enough about that - But this is just a farce to dress the whole thing up. You can't say things like this and expect people to believe you're a real human being.
Come on, fess up.
Mr. Nauplius has a ... very particular ... view of this world, Ms. Sung. It's literally magical, to him.
His god talks to him. He has summoned bhaalgorns and bound them to his will. (Sadly, his demon-summoning temple was destroyed, so there are now invisible bhaalgorns rampaging all around the Khanid Kingdom causing all sorts of mischief. It hasn't made the news, but demons are clever, you see.)
Where other people use words like "confirmation bias raised to an art form," Mr. Nauplius just sees his destiny. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1377
|
Posted - 2017.03.10 14:49:30 -
[162] - Quote
Or, and bear with me here... he's a clown given far too much attention and effort, encouraging him to wave that bladder and launch those pies with even more fervor. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3078
|
Posted - 2017.03.10 15:07:04 -
[163] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Or, and bear with me here... he's a clown given far too much attention and effort, encouraging him to wave that bladder and launch those pies with even more fervor.
Another long-running dispute (and not just with Miz). It's possible that Mr. Nauplius does actually really like being paid attention to, but ignoring him tends to result in him upping his game until it's impossible to ignore him anymore. He's ... a little dedicated to pursuing and publicizing his beliefs. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1377
|
Posted - 2017.03.10 15:38:39 -
[164] - Quote
I'd rather be burned himself out once rather than remain a perpetual bleeding wound people keep poking so it won't close. |
Yuwei Sung
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2017.03.10 15:48:18 -
[165] - Quote
I think I have to lean towards Miz's opinion. I've met both really stupid and properly insane people, and they're just not like this. Schizophrenics and other people who suffer from other forms of psychosis have messy, unfocused, and distinctly unamusing delusions and obsessions that they often even struggle to express with consistency. And even then they still know what the word "okay" means. He's far too perfectly ridiculous.
I'd guess he's just a run of the mill sociopath enjoying testing the limits of your credence. It doesn't work to deprive people like that of attention unless you keep it up even while they're doing bad things. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3078
|
Posted - 2017.03.10 16:37:59 -
[166] - Quote
Yuwei Sung wrote:I think I have to lean towards Miz's opinion. I've met both really stupid and properly insane people, and they're just not like this. Schizophrenics and other people who suffer from other forms of psychosis have messy, unfocused, and distinctly unamusing delusions and obsessions that they often even struggle to express with consistency. And even then they still know what the word "okay" means. He's far too perfectly ridiculous.
I'd guess he's just a run of the mill sociopath enjoying testing the limits of your credence. It doesn't work to deprive people like that of attention unless you keep it up even while they're doing bad things.
Edit: Better yet - Still foil him, but just do it without saying anything about it.
Tell you what, Ms. Sung: you and Miz work out how to get the whole capsuleer community, including the newer pilots, to ignore an extra-shiny (in a "blood is reflective and fire glows" kind of way), dramatic event, and I'll play along.
Maybe go ask Karmilla Strife Pryce to help you. The three of you seem to share a model of reality.
Until you can achieve that degree of virtuoso-level cat-herding, please excuse me if I do something that seems to actually work. |
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
92
|
Posted - 2017.03.10 17:08:37 -
[167] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Dear Diary,
My budding career as a satirist seems to be doomed. On the upside, I might have stumbled into an accidental career as a witch and adviser on occult matters to various Sani Sabik. I wonder if I can sell one of them this tritanium mine I opened on New Caldari last month.
Note to self: remember to order more leftover soup from the occult supply store.
-A
Alas we do seem to have that affect on people. 
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
|
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
726
|
Posted - 2017.03.10 17:58:55 -
[168] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:
His god talks to him. He has summoned bhaalgorns and bound them to his will. (Sadly, his demon-summoning temple was destroyed, so there are now invisible bhaalgorns rampaging all around the Khanid Kingdom causing all sorts of mischief. It hasn't made the news, but demons are clever, you see.)
Where other people use words like "confirmation bias raised to an art form," Mr. Nauplius just sees his destiny.
I'm sorry, Ms. Jenneth, but this is incorrect. The presence of demons in the Khanid Kingdom following the destruction of my demon summoning temple was confirmed by Gutter Press.
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3085
|
Posted - 2017.03.10 18:15:11 -
[169] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:I'm sorry, Ms. Jenneth, but this is incorrect. The presence of demons in the Khanid Kingdom following the destruction of my demon summoning temple was confirmed by Gutter Press.
I ... stand corrected? |
Maria Daphiti
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
240
|
Posted - 2017.03.10 18:19:27 -
[170] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Nauplius wrote:I'm sorry, Ms. Jenneth, but this is incorrect. The presence of demons in the Khanid Kingdom following the destruction of my demon summoning temple was confirmed by Gutter Press. I ... stand corrected?
Like, a *TOTALLY* reliable news source.
*eyeroll*
|
|
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Slayer Liberator
The Scope
Gallente Federation
150
|
Posted - 2017.03.11 14:14:06 -
[171] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:Not sure this is news. Evidently Gallente civilians are concerned about the loss of rights of the civilians inside the Myrskaa quarantine zone. Needless to say, quarantine shouldn't be breached because someone light years away is concerned about a single person. A quarantine breach could kill millions or billions. Classic Gallente! Freedom for all no matter the cost and no matter the consequence, they say! I am going to exasperate over their stupidity. I am going to do it right now. Spawn of a motherless female dog! I need an entire bottle of whiskey.
I may be Gallente but i need some whiskey too |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1394
|
Posted - 2017.03.11 17:00:21 -
[172] - Quote
Pelting a motorcade with rocks and raw fish seems to be one response to what appears to be a complete and utter failure to do anything useful to aid the victims at Myrskaa.
It would appear it's not just us foreigners that are a bit outraged at the incompetence and/or malice on display here. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3093
|
Posted - 2017.03.11 17:12:43 -
[173] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Pelting a motorcade with rocks and raw fish seems to be one response to what appears to be a complete and utter failure to do anything useful to aid the victims at Myrskaa. It would appear it's not just us foreigners that are a bit outraged at the incompetence and/or malice on display here.
Yeah. Well ...
It seems pretty clear that the decision's been made to treat those under quarantine as already lost. Just because there's kind of a tradition of doing such things doesn't make it easy, and it's been a few hundred years since kicking Grandfather out into the snow was actually a thing they've had to do.
And back then I don't think there were often videos of Gandfather and Grandmother stumbling around in the woods slowly freezing to death. |
Jev North
Anshar Incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
709
|
Posted - 2017.03.11 17:26:24 -
[174] - Quote
I really expected more stiff upper lips. Ah, well. Small disappointments.
To err is human, to forgive divine; neither are alliance policy.
|
Doctor Valate
Delve Medical Services
93
|
Posted - 2017.03.11 17:37:13 -
[175] - Quote
Hmm, a quick scribble calculation, and the infection rate is... oh.
Well, I think we can see why they weren't letting any supplies into the nanoshield dome. 25% fatalities thus far. At that rate, there won't be anyone left within a week or two.
Still, there is no excuse for no orders or contact from the authorities for a month. Isolation in this kind of situation creates paranoia, and paranoia results in people doing stupid things.
Doctor Valerie Valate. Not to be confused with the other Valerie Valate.
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Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1925
|
Posted - 2017.03.11 17:49:43 -
[176] - Quote
Odd that the footage showed signs of battle within the quarantine zone. Did those trapped take up arms in an attempt to breach the barrier? Whatever the case, the situation is tragic but people must accept the nature of the problem. Exposure means death, and that is it.
Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle
Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Lord Consort of House Sarum
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9326
|
Posted - 2017.03.11 17:58:29 -
[177] - Quote
Privation can lead to some unpleasant consequencse, Lord Newelle.
Honestly, the best thing the Peacekeepers in Myrskaa can do is keep themselves safe, and ideally uninfected.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Ashihei Shikkoken
State War Academy
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2017.03.11 19:04:02 -
[178] - Quote
Stopping work helps no one. A better protest would be showing up for your shift with a thicker wallet from the Home Guard shares you sold, or get those billions of citizens to short the PhySec futures index in unison.
Don't provide an unsolicited demonstration of why you aren't executive material.
pâîpé¦pé¿péñpâòpâ¦péú
NOH pé+pâüpé+pâ¦
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9326
|
Posted - 2017.03.12 00:39:30 -
[179] - Quote
Another of those 'updates' that barely merits the term. Unsurprisingly, Federation officials continue to use Myrskaa to distract from the situation on the Postouvin orbital, and ignore the massively increased difficulty in managing a quarantine in a planetary environment, compared to managing a quarantine for a population a quarter the size aboard a platform in hard vacuum.
Simply said, any properly-designed and -deployed orbital structure, as a matter of course, is easily cordoned into individual pockets of atmosphere that allow for isolation, observation, and continued provision of supplies without risk of exposure from one cordon to another.
A city on a world with a breathable and indeed temperate atmosphere is, by definition, not going to be as easily managed.
Needless to say, we of course will value any information that can be shared that might assist in this crisis.
However, I would advise Federal authorities to not create a diplomatic crisis to distract from their own quarantine, or to make light of the challenge State authorities face.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
TomHorn
Dragonaurs
284
|
Posted - 2017.03.12 03:10:39 -
[180] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Privation can lead to some unpleasant consequences, Lord Newelle.
Honestly, the best thing the Peacekeepers in Myrskaa can do is keep themselves safe, and ideally uninfected.
...and stop leaking footage to the Scope, it doesn't do anyone any good. I wonder how much the Scope paid him for his horror movie.
Look at the trouble he has caused across the State with his footage. He needs to be found, and an example made of him. This , is what happens to whistle blowers in the State.
Still no official statement yet Priano-Haani . I guess what is happening , is what we all expected. Total breakdown of law and order , violence , gangs , worse things. Your heart goes out to those stuck inside the nano shield, and their families.
|
|
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TomHorn
Dragonaurs
284
|
Posted - 2017.03.12 03:55:25 -
[181] - Quote
Doctor Valate wrote:Hmm, a quick scribble calculation, and the infection rate is... oh.
Well, I think we can see why they weren't letting any supplies into the nanoshield dome. 25% fatalities thus far. At that rate, there won't be anyone left within a week or two.
Still, there is no excuse for no orders or contact from the authorities for a month. Isolation in this kind of situation creates paranoia, and paranoia results in people doing stupid things.
Doc , i don't know much about the Kyonoke pathogen , i thought i read you could have the pathogen , for quite sometime before any symptoms showed. Soon as you showed signs of illness due to Kyonoke , death came very quickly. If that's the case, wouldn't it take much longer than one or two weeks.
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3097
|
Posted - 2017.03.12 05:45:14 -
[182] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:Doc , i don't know much about the Kyonoke pathogen , i thought i read you could have the pathogen , for quite sometime before any symptoms showed. Soon as you showed signs of illness due to Kyonoke , death came very quickly. If that's the case, wouldn't it take much longer than one or two weeks.
It depends on which form of the pathogen you have, pilot. "Advanced" Kyonoke is virus-like, and historically kills in a matter of hours. The strain we're seeing now might be a little less immediately deadly, though specifics are hard to come by, as are explanations of how this could have happened.
The "basic" form is more like a prion. It's a mass of protein like a prion, is durable like a prion, and kills like a prion-- just, again, quite a bit faster than most prions, causing death within a period measured in months.
Presumably, if you're in an environment infected with both basic and advanced Kyonoke, the advanced will almost certainly get you before the basic does. Eventually the advanced will die off, once the population's exhausted, leaving the basic waiting around for whoever wanders in next.
Uh-- about the "leaker," before: finding this person is probably pretty easy. It'll likely be one of the marines or peacekeepers who were inside the city trying to keep order when the nanoshield went up. Either that, or someone who got hold of a bit of working kit from a dead or dying soldier. Either way, it's someone inside the quarantine zone.
Considering that this person is apparently operating without orders, and is probably thoroughly doomed, it's a little hard to blame them for wanting their story told. |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
2020
|
Posted - 2017.03.12 07:59:56 -
[183] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Another of those ' updates' that barely merits the term.
"several more of the group commenting that the treatment of protestors by State Peacekeepers was "uncivilized, barbaric and shameful" after it was revealed that tear gas and non-lethal ballistics have been used to disperse crowds"
As opposed to what ? Slaver hounds, live ammunition, orbital strikes ?
What does the Federation do to disperse rioters ?
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
|
Aradina Varren
Alexylva Paradox
100
|
Posted - 2017.03.12 09:13:55 -
[184] - Quote
They provide free cakes and sandwiches cut into little triangles to pacify them. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1394
|
Posted - 2017.03.12 09:16:45 -
[185] - Quote
It's chilling that even when the report says "protesters", everyone immediately starts assuming "rioters". These are not the same thing in any reasonable society. |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
2022
|
Posted - 2017.03.12 09:46:43 -
[186] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:It's chilling that even when the report says "protesters", everyone immediately starts assuming "rioters"
Well, there was that fish-throwing incident the other day, where it was stated that "The incident and ensuing riot resulted in more than a thousand arrests, along with the use of tear gas and non-lethal riot control weaponry by State Peacekeepers."
So, they are using tear gas and non-lethal weaponry on rioters. What would the Federation prefer they use on the rioters ?
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Rossanjiin Eskeitan
Guri Raiders
40
|
Posted - 2017.03.12 12:52:58 -
[187] - Quote
Aradina Varren wrote:They provide free cakes and sandwiches cut into little triangles to pacify them.
Don't forget the dildos.
Oh, no...wait...my mistake. Diana Kim has that covered. Maybe someone should notify her that her expertise is needed? |
TomHorn
Dragonaurs
284
|
Posted - 2017.03.12 15:30:28 -
[188] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:TomHorn wrote:Doc , i don't know much about the Kyonoke pathogen , i thought i read you could have the pathogen , for quite sometime before any symptoms showed. Soon as you showed signs of illness due to Kyonoke , death came very quickly. If that's the case, wouldn't it take much longer than one or two weeks. It depends on which form of the pathogen you have, pilot. "Advanced" Kyonoke is virus-like, and historically kills in a matter of hours. The strain we're seeing now might be a little less immediately deadly, though specifics are hard to come by, as are explanations of how this could have happened. The "basic" form is more like a prion. It's a mass of protein like a prion, is durable like a prion, and kills like a prion-- just, again, quite a bit faster than most prions, causing death within a period measured in months. Presumably, if you're in an environment infected with both basic and advanced Kyonoke, the advanced will almost certainly get you before the basic does. Eventually the advanced will die off, once the population's exhausted, leaving the basic waiting around for whoever wanders in next. Uh-- about the "leaker," before: finding this person is probably pretty easy. It'll likely be one of the marines or peacekeepers who were inside the city trying to keep order when the nanoshield went up. Either that, or someone who got hold of a bit of working kit from a dead or dying soldier. Either way, it's someone inside the quarantine zone. Considering that this person is apparently operating without orders, and is probably thoroughly doomed, it's a little hard to blame them for wanting their story told.
Thank you for the reply Aria.
Still think the leaked footage from the combat holocam of the State peacekeeper came from outside the nano shield. If footage was leaked by someone within the nano shield , guess doesn't really matter. |
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
894
|
Posted - 2017.03.12 15:33:03 -
[189] - Quote
A year ago, I started development on a simulator for predicting the spread of various pathogens, computer viruses, nanites, etc. within Origin, and for simulating the likely effects of an outbreak and of countermeasures. I've got a somewhat functional prototype, and even though development is far from complete, the development of the crisis in Myrskaa is sadly all too predictable.
Development on the simulator has stood still for months, but the Kyonoke crisis prompted me to resume working on it. But I'm really hoping the crisis will be over by the time development is complete, for it probably will take at least a year before it's finished.
Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation
Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3098
|
Posted - 2017.03.12 16:50:23 -
[190] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:Thank you for the reply Aria.
Still think the leaked footage from the combat holocam of the State peacekeeper came from outside the nano shield. If footage was leaked by someone within the nano shield , guess doesn't really matter.
I originally wasn't sure, but take a look at this bit from the report:
Quote:Narrated by a muffled voice speaking traditional Napanii, the footage also explains that those inside the quarantine zone were cut off from the outside world completely on February 16th, and that there has been no contact or issue of orders from the Caldari administration since the confirmation of the presence of Kyonoke almost a month ago. The unidentified voice also claims that the death toll inside the nanodome has skyrocketed, with more than eight and a half million deaths confirmed since the quarantine lockdown.
It's a little subtle, but the awareness of stuff going on inside, particularly the lack of contact or orders and the specifics on confirmed death toll, coupled with the lack of reference to stuff going on outside, suggests an inside point of view. Then there's the muffling of the voice, as though covered with a cloth, or a mask. Trying to filter the air so as not to get sick.
It's from inside. Poor soul. |
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Doctor Valate
Delve Medical Services
94
|
Posted - 2017.03.12 17:15:14 -
[191] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:Doctor Valate wrote:Hmm, a quick scribble calculation, and the infection rate is... oh.
Well, I think we can see why they weren't letting any supplies into the nanoshield dome. 25% fatalities thus far. At that rate, there won't be anyone left within a week or two.
Still, there is no excuse for no orders or contact from the authorities for a month. Isolation in this kind of situation creates paranoia, and paranoia results in people doing stupid things. Doc , i don't know much about the Kyonoke pathogen , i thought i read you could have the pathogen , for quite sometime before any symptoms showed. Soon as you showed signs of illness due to Kyonoke , death came very quickly. If that's the case, wouldn't it take much longer than one or two weeks.
The city hashad a population of some 36 million. One, just one, infected individual caused over a million cases within 5 days.
8.5 million confirmed infected individuals (now deceased)... there's just no way that all of them were 100% biosecurely handled.
Every soul within that nanodome is probably infected by now, and with no known treatment or cure, the outlook is grim. Very grim.
Doctor Valerie Valate. Not to be confused with the other Valerie Valate.
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1394
|
Posted - 2017.03.12 18:39:42 -
[192] - Quote
Well it turns out the footage was "heavily edited" and everything is actually just fine.
Any protesters that got fired for speaking out probably deserves their new life as unemployed riff raff too, I'm sure. |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
2088
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 02:43:00 -
[193] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Well it turns out the footage was " heavily edited" and everything is actually just fine. Any protesters that got fired for speaking out probably deserves their new life as unemployed riff raff too, I'm sure.
Until we get the story from both sides, not just the Megas, I say we reserve judgement on the protestors.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Aradina Varren
Alexylva Paradox
101
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 03:01:51 -
[194] - Quote
Protesting a quarantine is pointless. I'm not sure what they hoped to accomplish. Surely the footage, real or fake, would show people why the quarantine is so strict. That's what kyonoke did to one city. If any of the quarantines are broken for any reason, it'll get far, far worse than that.
I don't envy the CEP. No matter what happens here, they'll get the blame for it. The Scope seems to want that. |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
2088
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 03:16:32 -
[195] - Quote
Aradina Varren wrote:Protesting a quarantine is pointless. I'm not sure what they hoped to accomplish. Surely the footage, real or fake, would show people why the quarantine is so strict. That's what kyonoke did to one city. If any of the quarantines are broken for any reason, it'll get far, far worse than that.
I don't envy the CEP. No matter what happens here, they'll get the blame for it. The Scope seems to want that.
It's a media thing. It's never about the truth and all about the agenda and the viewership.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3099
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 03:24:19 -
[196] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Well it turns out the footage was " heavily edited" and everything is actually just fine. Any protesters that got fired for speaking out probably deserves their new life as unemployed riff raff too, I'm sure. Until we get the story from both sides, not just the Megas, I say we reserve judgement on the protestors.
And the megas, really.
A note for critics from the Republic and Federation: the Caldari State doesn't recognize "rights of freedom of speech and expression," doesn't pretend to, and never has. It tolerates dissenters ("jaalan") grumpily at the best of times.
These are not the best of times.
Really, just empowering employers to terminate contracts seems mostly like CEP-speak for "All right, we get it, but you're going to have to trust us on this. Back to work, and no more nonsense." It's a pretty measured response, considering the level of defiance shown.
On the flip-side, there's also no real tradition of unbiased journalism in the State. It's maybe a little arguable whether there's such a tradition anywhere, but NOH is really better known for shady business dealings than for journalistic integrity. Even if The Scope's a little slanted, I'd expect its tilt to be relatively subtle. NOH ... well, frankly, I think they're completely capable of making stuff up.
On the flip-flip side, the State also neither promises, nor has a structural reason to promise, to tell its populace the truth all the time. Executives need good info; others, often, not so much. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9329
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 03:35:15 -
[197] - Quote
I'll be perfectly honest. The CEP has allowed the public relations side of this crisis to get away from them. The Gallente authorities are using the tragedy of Myrskaa to deflect from Postouvin's casualties, and the CEP lost the initiative at that point. Instead of redirecting attention back to Postouvin, or to admit with frankness that Myrskaa is a charnel house that they've abandoned to its fate, Lai Dai and NOH have issued what are frankly inept rebuttals, while those overseeing have remained silent.
As regards Myrskaa, I don't believe anyone had any illusion as to the eventual fate of the city once we learned the pathogen was Kyonoke. Despite bleeding heart Gallente mourning the suffering of those Gallente trapped inside the cordon, I'm sure we knew what was coming.
It was never going to be pretty.
At the same time, we must remember the good that has been and might yet be achieved, and remind State authorities of their duty in this case.
In the first place, the State did not hesitate to institute a quarantine that has, while it unfortunately doomed the city of Myrskaa, saved the rest of Oijanen II, and possibly many other planets and stations in that area of space.
What's more, while many are doomed, their death may be given value. The Home Guard and Navy should have done everything they could to continue to affect isolation practices, to ensure rationing, and to coordinate research. The medical personnel and scientific teams in the city should have been drafted in a coordinated crash research program. Even if no cure or treatment is found, the additional data might help in the future.
Lastly, those who remain in Myrskaa should be given a chance to communicate with their family, and to be made to know that theirs is a sacrifice that is not merely respected, but will be memorialized. That is the duty of the Executive in this case: to provide context and meaning, to provide objective and purpose.
The real reason for protest is not that a quarantine was enacted or enforced. Any other course of action would be beyond senseless.
It is the executives abandoning those who yet live as dead men, leaving them to suffer unnecessarily, bereft of purpose. That was unduly callous.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
2089
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 04:01:42 -
[198] - Quote
Never mind sending people in to relieve their suffering is essentially the same thing as wasting valuable lives and resources for no gain. It seems that the Megas had already written them off as losses and wouldn't bother to waste any more time, manpower and resources on them. Frankly, considering that this is Kyonoke, I say this is most likely the best action to take for the circumstances.
Were it any other kind of outbreak, the outrage would be more justifiable. Not Kyonoke, though. Not with that 100% fatality rate, very high virulence and the complete absence of any kind of protection for any individual entering the infected zones.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9330
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 04:05:37 -
[199] - Quote
No sensible person would ask for others to be sent in to die, as well.
But those inside the dome?
Their deaths must be given some meaning, at least for the sake of the citizenry at large.
Simple said, write-offs should remain in the realm of accounting, not the realm of right action.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Aradina Varren
Alexylva Paradox
101
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 04:21:16 -
[200] - Quote
Hopefully Myrskaa can be used to gather data on Kyonoke to prevent this exact situation from ever happening again. It's already shown the effectiveness of completely isolating a city with a nanoshield dome. If there are any future outbreaks we can hope that more time will be devoted to providing comfort to the victims, however in this case there simply wasn't time. The first priority was making sure it couldn't spread to the rest of the planet.
We should make sure that the dead are remembered. |
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
2089
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 04:22:09 -
[201] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:No sensible person would ask for others to be sent in to die, as well.
But those inside the dome?
Their deaths must be given some meaning, at least for the sake of the citizenry at large.
Simply said, write-offs should remain in the realm of accounting, not the realm of right action.
Can supply drops penetrate nanoshield domes?
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9330
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 04:28:29 -
[202] - Quote
My assumption is, "not without risk."
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Yuwei Sung
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 05:57:47 -
[203] - Quote
It's quite remarkable how willingly the Caldari are relenting the moral high ground and control of public opinion to the Federation, even at their own expense. People over here have no problem believing the idea that the State's leaders would be cold-hearted enough to write off the entire cities population as if they were just dysfunctional tools, but as Ms. Priano suggests, it's hard not attempting any communication with those within the quarantined zone as anything other than poor PR. Rather then cruel or pragmatic, it just appears stupid.
I'd have to guess there's something going on inside they'd rather never sees the light of day. But who knows? Maybe they're afraid it can spread by fluid router, too. |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
2090
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 06:39:17 -
[204] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:My assumption is, "not without risk."
From what I understand about Nanoshield domes, it's more or less starship-grade shield held in a dome structure, with high concentration nano-disassembler cloud floating around in its lattice. Nothing short of an orbital bombardment will punch through that, from the looks of it.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3101
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 06:58:25 -
[205] - Quote
Yuwei Sung wrote:It's quite remarkable how willingly the Caldari are relenting the moral high ground and control of public opinion to the Federation, even at their own expense. People over here have no problem believing the idea that the State's leaders would be cold-hearted enough to write off the entire cities population as if they were just dysfunctional tools, but as Ms. Priano suggests, it's hard not attempting any communication with those within the quarantined zone as anything other than poor PR. Rather then cruel or pragmatic, it just appears stupid.
I'd have to guess there's something going on inside they'd rather never sees the light of day. But who knows? Maybe they're afraid it can spread by fluid router, too. It wouldn't break many more rules than the pathogen already does.
The State's actually pretty hostile to the idea that it needs to care what outsiders think. Public opinion in the Federation is worth less than nothing to Patriot leaders in particular. They see nothing there that any Caldari should ever listen to.
Internal public opinion's another matter. Recent history's a bit of a reminder: the elite serve the Caldari as a whole or become expendable. The megas ignore internal popular sentiment at their peril, so, yeah. It seems like that they're concerned about some effect more communication and transparency might have.
(Have Federal officials been allowing comms into and out of their own quarantine zone?) |
Yuwei Sung
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 07:45:32 -
[206] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:The State's actually pretty hostile to the idea that it needs to care what outsiders think. Public opinion in the Federation is worth less than nothing to Patriot leaders in particular. They see nothing there that any Caldari should ever listen to.
Internal public opinion's another matter. Recent history's a bit of a reminder: the elite serve the Caldari as a whole or become expendable. The megas ignore internal popular sentiment at their peril, so, yeah. It seems like that they're concerned about some effect more communication and transparency might have.
Oh, I'm aware of that. I suppose I was mentioning how it will be perceived in the Federation to contrast with the more tenuous matter of internal opinion. That is, people will leap at any reason to call the Caldari barbarians here, but if it's having such an effect even within the State, then making such an error is remarkable.
Aria Jenneth wrote:(Have Federal officials been allowing comms into and out of their own quarantine zone?)
I think you have the wrong idea of me, Ms. Jenneth. I'm perfectly aware of the hypocrisy.
But the Senate and the press are managing the crisis very well. No ones even talking about the one over here in either country. Don't you think? |
Alia Nadasdy
Imperial's Capsulers
1
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 08:21:57 -
[207] - Quote
Nothing new.
Just repetition Yoiul Conference which was held in AD AD 23236 The meeting took place on the Jovian cruiser Yoiul.
Deja Vu 
"We are the Harbingers of hope, We are the Sword of the Righteous"
"We are a shadow of the former greatness of the Empire"
Purist Lord Admiral Victor
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Jev North
Anshar Incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
710
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 10:32:55 -
[208] - Quote
Yuwei Sung wrote:But the Senate and the press are managing the crisis very well. No ones even talking about the one over here in either country. Don't you think?
Well, with minor rearrangements, I do -- I'd say the Senate is managing the press pretty well, and the crisis just fell out of the sentence entirely.
To err is human, to forgive divine; neither are alliance policy.
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Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
728
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 11:32:57 -
[209] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:It's chilling that even when the report says "protesters", everyone immediately starts assuming "rioters". These are not the same thing in any reasonable society.
In any righteous and holy civilization, governed as all such societies are by hereditary absolute theocracy, "protest" does in fact mean "riot" and all rioters are subject to immediate, on the spot summary execution. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3101
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 16:26:47 -
[210] - Quote
Yuwei Sung wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:The State's actually pretty hostile to the idea that it needs to care what outsiders think. Public opinion in the Federation is worth less than nothing to Patriot leaders in particular. They see nothing there that any Caldari should ever listen to.
Internal public opinion's another matter. Recent history's a bit of a reminder: the elite serve the Caldari as a whole or become expendable. The megas ignore internal popular sentiment at their peril, so, yeah. It seems like that they're concerned about some effect more communication and transparency might have. Oh, I'm aware of that. I suppose I was mentioning how it will be perceived in the Federation to contrast with the more tenuous matter of internal opinion. That is, people will leap at any reason to call the Caldari barbarians here, but if it's having such an effect even within the State, then making such an error is remarkable. Which led to my speculation on why they're taking it on the chin.
It's only really an error if you care about the effect. It's hard for the State to control what the Scope publishes, and easier to paint it as a tool of Gallentean propaganda (which, to be fair, it seems a little bit to be), best ignored by right-thinking Caldari. That video was the kind of thing it's a little hard to "manage" effectively without just plain caving in, though.
They definitely need better spokesmedia. NOH is infamous even in the State. People might buy products from the Practicals, but no sane person trusts them. Maybe Ishukone and KK could get deeper into the news business and leave NOH its holodramas?
Quote:Aria Jenneth wrote:(Have Federal officials been allowing comms into and out of their own quarantine zone?) I think you have the wrong idea of me, Ms. Jenneth. I'm perfectly aware of the hypocrisy. But the Senate and the press are managing the crisis very well. No ones even talking about the one over here in either country. Don't you think?
Maybe. They've been lucky in that no similar viral (no pun intended) bombshell from within the Federal quarantine zone has been forthcoming. Caldari generally are very trusting of authority and slow to challenge it. Imagine the effect a similar level of outrage would have in the Federation.
Also, I kind of think it's you who might have the wrong idea of me, Ms. Sung. I'm not looking at you as a propagandist or strong partisan, though of course you'd function with an inevitably Federal perspective. I'm culturally an Achur, sure, but this isn't really my fight. I'm more interested in understanding politics than messing about with them.
It wasn't a rhetorical question. I was asking because I wasn't completely sure. I'm not actually all that fond of the State to begin with. |
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Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
2027
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 18:29:12 -
[211] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:(Have Federal officials been allowing comms into and out of their own quarantine zone?)
Representatives from the Supreme Court and the Senate's newly formed Kyonoke Oversight Committee were briefed on the ongoing efforts of Poteque Pharmaceuticals, Duvolle Laboratories and Genolution, who remain in constant communication with the quarantined population of the RP4 industrial installation in Postouvin.
It would appear so, yes.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3101
|
Posted - 2017.03.13 19:11:44 -
[212] - Quote
On the corporate level, yeah, I guess so. I wonder if they're letting people talk to their families. If so, I'd expect some kind of horrifying images to be getting out.
I'd be maybe a little impressed, though. |
Slayer Liberator
The Scope
Gallente Federation
151
|
Posted - 2017.03.15 03:43:30 -
[213] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Privation can lead to some unpleasant consequences, Lord Newelle.
Honestly, the best thing the Peacekeepers in Myrskaa can do is keep themselves safe, and ideally uninfected.
If the rumors about the Peacekeepers using Cloned Soldiers to secure the quarantine zone are true, you should be more worried about one of the Cloned Soldiers getting in a bad mood and killing any remaining survivors they come across or accidentally destroying something important I have had to deal with both so I know it can happen if the Peacekeepers don't take the proper precautions. However, I know how helpful they can be. |
TomHorn
Dragonaurs
285
|
Posted - 2017.03.15 03:56:05 -
[214] - Quote
Chaos has erupted , during the Caldari - Gallente summit .The executives of the Mega's , have walked out of Chief Executive Panel talks with the Federal government.
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Aridia Mnesia
House Mnesia
0
|
Posted - 2017.03.15 10:11:14 -
[215] - Quote
Hm. It seems that things are getting quite interesting indeed.
Penumbral mages wander in the furthest of depths
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Skyweir Kinnison
The Scope
Gallente Federation
403
|
Posted - 2017.03.15 11:53:36 -
[216] - Quote
Quote: Executives from Kaalakiota, Sukuuvestaa and CBD have walked out of Chief Executive Panel talks with the Federal government, after audio recordings were leaked in which a number of Gallente Senators criticised the ethics of forcing protestors in the State back to work.
Last time I saw a flounce of that magnitude, it was at the opening of the Revue Bijou when La Divine had a meltdown because his frock had mother-of-pearl sequins instead of pearlescent.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9337
|
Posted - 2017.03.15 19:55:00 -
[217] - Quote
Ugh. More empty words and overweening pride. I hesitated nearly a day on adding that to the mix, and do so now only because of the brief mention of an on-going FIO investigation into Kasaras.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Graelyn
Akagi Initiative
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
887
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 11:44:42 -
[218] - Quote
Good to see the State and Fed both have their eyes on the ball.
*rolls eyes*
Cardinal Graelyn
Imperial Liaison, I-RED
Amarr Loyalist of the Year - YC113
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Jev North
Anshar Incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
712
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 11:47:32 -
[219] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:I hesitated nearly a day on adding that to the mix, and do so now only because of the brief mention of an on-going FIO investigation into Kasaras.
Yes, that lede is a few feet in the ground there. Funny, that. Also, consider that "walked out [some unspecified time] after" isn't quite the same phrase as "walked out because."
To err is human, to forgive divine; neither are alliance policy.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9339
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 15:48:10 -
[220] - Quote
What vexes me most about it is this.
The senators were recorded speaking in private, and winds know we've all said impolite things about others in private. This is no surprise. Instead, it's a leak from someone (Blaque? Ishanoya? Oiritsuu?) who knew the Caldari delegation was looking for an excuse to leave, having hopefully placated shareholders by attending a summit in the first place, however briefly.
Sigh.
Well, while politicians and CEOs are grandstanding, life carries on.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Graelyn
Akagi Initiative
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
903
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 16:26:53 -
[221] - Quote
Or Death, in this case.
Cardinal Graelyn
Imperial Liaison, I-RED
Amarr Loyalist of the Year - YC113
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9342
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 16:38:39 -
[222] - Quote
With a fancifully large scythe, unfortunately.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Saya Ishikari
Akagi Initiative
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
572
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 16:57:22 -
[223] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:What vexes me most about it is this.
The senators were recorded speaking in private, and winds know we've all said impolite things about others in private. This is no surprise. Instead, it's a leak from someone (Blaque? Ishanoya? Oiritsuu?) who knew the Caldari delegation was looking for an excuse to leave, having hopefully placated shareholders by attending a summit in the first place, however briefly.
Sigh.
Well, while politicians and CEOs are grandstanding, life carries on.
My sentiments exactly.
"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9350
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 21:47:26 -
[224] - Quote
Second index post updated with the latest.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9380
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 23:01:05 -
[225] - Quote
And another update.
Mostly, we're at the 'ceaseless politicking' phase of this crisis.
Fortunately, we do have confirmation of Ishukone and Zainou presence at the upcoming inquest to be hosted by the Society, which is very much welcome. The Arataka Research Consortium will have representation from essentially all of its component and associated organizations, with approximately twenty independent capsuleers of diverse origin on site.
We'll see what the Society has in store for us.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3153
|
Posted - 2017.03.20 06:24:50 -
[226] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:And another update. Mostly, we're at the 'ceaseless politicking' phase of this crisis. Fortunately, we do have confirmation of Ishukone and Zainou presence at the upcoming inquest to be hosted by the Society, which is very much welcome. The Arataka Research Consortium will have representation from essentially all of its component and associated organizations, with approximately twenty independent capsuleers of diverse origin on site. We'll see what the Society has in store for us.
As long as there are no new cases outside quarantine, there's time for such things. As soon as there's a new case, there'll be a scramble, then investigations and blame and more politics (probably blaming the politics)-- until the next quarantine breach.
Maybe at some point we'll get past the point where anyone really cares. I kind of hope not. People love their politics enough that getting to that point means we've gone somewhere pretty dark. |
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University
Ivy League
337
|
Posted - 2017.03.20 07:00:09 -
[227] - Quote
Having only half followed this news so far. My big question is... why haven't we just glassed the affected areas yet?
I mean sure holding out for a cure is nice and all. But frankly it's unlikely, and the longer we wait to act the greater the chance of a breach. Anyone who might still be alive is as good as dead already. Why string them along with false hope and put more lives at risk? |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1428
|
Posted - 2017.03.20 07:16:12 -
[228] - Quote
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:Having only half followed this news so far. My big question is... why haven't we just glassed the affected areas yet?
I mean sure holding out for a cure is nice and all. But frankly it's unlikely, and the longer we wait to act the greater the chance of a breach. Anyone who might still be alive is as good as dead already. Why string them along with false hope and put more lives at risk?
Because only one site can really be 'glassed' and even that one makes that a huge risk.
Muttokon II Orbital Platform: Pop that sucker and you may be raining the speck down on the populated planet below.
The city of Myrska in Oijanen: "Glassing" it may very well breach containment and spread it across the planet.
SoCT station in Aridia: Only part of the station is affected apparently, glassing will almost certainly spread it. Contaminated debris might float off and set off a new event elsewhere later.
Mining Platform in Federation space: See Orbital Platform and SoCT station.
Containment until safer disposal is possible is the best option for now. Worst case scenarios, the three spaceborne facilities can be towed into a star or something... and if the contagion spreads on the planet in Oijanen...
... well, glassing may very well prove to be the only choice, but with the staggering ability that spec has shown for survival even that would be a very tall order. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3153
|
Posted - 2017.03.20 07:19:52 -
[229] - Quote
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:Having only half followed this news so far. My big question is... why haven't we just glassed the affected areas yet?
I mean sure holding out for a cure is nice and all. But frankly it's unlikely, and the longer we wait to act the greater the chance of a breach. Anyone who might still be alive is as good as dead already. Why string them along with false hope and put more lives at risk?
Simple answer? Ruin and rubble falling from the sky, loaded with plague.
The "basic" form of the Kyonoke speck (a term I increasingly think doesn't mean any specific object so much as either type of Kyonoke pathogen) is basically a prion.
Conventional prions, like those that destroy the brains of cannibals, can survive being in tissue that's set on fire. They don't have to be kept in survivable conditions; they're not alive. They're just objects, protein structures. Even ordinary microorganisms can survive being tossed into space and falling back, as long as they're someplace a little protected.
And in the case of Kyonoke, if that speck finds a host, you have the original problem all over again. Only, worse, because you won't find out about it for months-- when the host falls ill, and the dying starts all over again. |
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University
Ivy League
338
|
Posted - 2017.03.20 13:21:49 -
[230] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Bjorn Tyrson wrote:Having only half followed this news so far. My big question is... why haven't we just glassed the affected areas yet?
I mean sure holding out for a cure is nice and all. But frankly it's unlikely, and the longer we wait to act the greater the chance of a breach. Anyone who might still be alive is as good as dead already. Why string them along with false hope and put more lives at risk? Simple answer? Ruin and rubble falling from the sky, loaded with plague. The "basic" form of the Kyonoke speck (a term I increasingly think doesn't mean any specific object so much as either type of Kyonoke pathogen) is basically a prion. Conventional prions, like those that destroy the brains of cannibals, can survive being in tissue that's set on fire. They don't have to be kept in survivable conditions; they're not alive. They're just objects, protein structures, so they make extremophile bacteria look amateurish. Even ordinary microorganisms can survive being tossed into space and falling back, as long as they're someplace a little protected. And in the case of Kyonoke, if that speck finds a host, you have the original problem all over again. Only, worse, because you won't find out about it for months-- when the host falls ill, and the dying starts all over again.
I think you may have under estimated rhe extent of sterilization I was suggesting. |
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3159
|
Posted - 2017.03.20 14:02:14 -
[231] - Quote
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:I think you may have under estimated rhe extent of sterilization I was suggesting.
Oh, gods and spirits.
Mr. Tyrson, the weapons we use do not actually normally vaporize everything within a matter of kilometers. They break stuff up really efficiently, but there's not a lot out there that doesn't leave wreckage. Even the active defense superweapon the Drifters use doesn't vaporize the ship.
Consider that a chunk doesn't have to be very big at all to play host to something bad, and that in every case we currently have the target is some kind of fair-sized space or planetary facility, and....
Let's just say it's not a good option. Permanent entombment and/or towing into the nearest star is more likely to be a reliable solution. |
Olga Drottning
Antumbra
18
|
Posted - 2017.03.20 14:23:06 -
[232] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Permanent entombment and/or towing into the nearest star is more likely to be a reliable solution.
Definitely the correct answer. I guess you could say it's a stellar solution.
Now if only that State had towed the original Pit into Taisy, rather than researching a bioweapon... |
Aradina Varren
Alexylva Paradox
102
|
Posted - 2017.03.20 14:48:11 -
[233] - Quote
When dealing with an unknown disease, destroying it is the least useful option, especially considering that if it was present in the Pit, chances are it's present elsewhere. Studying it was the best choice they could have made, and it clearly lead to an effective containment method being developed.
As for your conspiracy, others have already addressed just how little sense that makes. If the State had developed a bioweapon with Kyonoke, one of its first uses probably wouldn't be on a populated Caldari planet. |
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University
Ivy League
338
|
Posted - 2017.03.20 14:51:22 -
[234] - Quote
well I'll take all your word on that. I aint a scientist so all that prion/protein **** doesn't mean much to me. thanks for answering my question though. now I got some orbital bombardment crystals I need to return. |
Olga Drottning
Antumbra
20
|
Posted - 2017.03.20 15:04:11 -
[235] - Quote
Aradina Varren wrote:If the State had developed a bioweapon with Kyonoke, one of its first uses probably wouldn't be on a populated Caldari planet.
If they'd have destroyed it in the first place then it wouldn't have been there to steal for use against a Caldari planet. You can't honestly believe that it was preserved to research for anything other than military purposes.
The argument that it probably exists elsewhere and therefore a cure was required is tired and done. It's not been found anywhere else in the cluster to date. If by some astronomical chance it is, there are plenty more stars to tow these things into.
But now the cat's out of the bag anyway. We can destroy the sources we know about, but then some unknown actor still has it - And because of that, New Eden should know that the State is ultimately at fault for not destroying the pathogen when it was contained. |
Aradina Varren
Alexylva Paradox
102
|
Posted - 2017.03.20 15:17:50 -
[236] - Quote
Olga Drottning wrote:
If they'd have destroyed it in the first place then it wouldn't have been there to steal for use against a Caldari planet. You can't honestly believe that it was preserved to research for anything other than military purposes.
It says a lot about you that you don't even consider the possibility that something might be done for the good of other people.
Olga Drottning wrote:
The argument that it probably exists elsewhere and therefore a cure was required is tired and done. It's not been found anywhere else in the cluster to date. If by some astronomical chance it is, there are plenty more stars to tow these things into.
That's ridiculously short sighted. The chances of Kyonoke existing in only one location are tiny.
Olga Drottning wrote:
But now the cat's out of the bag anyway. We can destroy the sources we know about, but then some unknown actor still has it - And because of that, New Eden should know that the State is ultimately at fault for not destroying the pathogen when it was contained.
Great plan. Let's destroy something that could yield valuable research because we're afraid! Those scientist types are in over their heads, wanting "tests" and other such silly things. Thinking about "the future", whatever that means(Probably means the future of bioweapons.). Why don't they understand that all problems can be solved via explosives. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9385
|
Posted - 2017.03.20 15:58:29 -
[237] - Quote
The issue, so far as I see it, is that at the time cordon and containment were the best strategies: efficient, effective, and not risking complete contamination of the Taisy system, which was a non-zero chance given the nature of towing a large asteroid that's been riddled with mining activity and hadn't been sealed at the time of initial outbreak.
In any case, it's all well and good that our compatriots are so very vocal about who to blame for this. All the same, it is indeed now a problem requiring multilateral action.
I wonder how many of our esteemed associates will be attending the Inquest, or perhaps assisting remotely, if at all possible?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9385
|
Posted - 2017.03.20 16:05:32 -
[238] - Quote
An update. Unsurprisingly, FIO activities include those within State borders.
Surprisingly, FIO may've uncovered irregularities that Kaalakiota hasn't. I would've expected a battalion of auditors to have been dropped in on those divisions weeks ago, going through records of all involved with nano-scale precision. Huh.
Fortunately, while it appears the rest of the Patriot bloc is engaged in willful disavowal of the state of affairs, and the Practicals are happy to leave Kaalakiota twisting in the wind, Kaalakiota will undertake matters.
It's my hope that Kaalakiota will join Ishukone and Zainou at the Inquest to ensure that all involved State parties are able to resolve this situation.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Olga Drottning
Antumbra
20
|
Posted - 2017.03.20 16:18:25 -
[239] - Quote
Aradina Varren wrote:
It says a lot about you that you don't even consider the possibility that something might be done for the good of other people.
Cynicism regarding the motivations of others makes me a bad person, despite all evidence to the contrary. Got it. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9385
|
Posted - 2017.03.20 16:22:28 -
[240] - Quote
Let's save the ceaseless recriminations and personal attacks for other threads? There are at least a half-dozen that are well-suited for that at the moment.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Aradina Varren
Alexylva Paradox
102
|
Posted - 2017.03.20 16:40:18 -
[241] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Let's save the ceaseless recriminations and personal attacks for other threads? There are at least a half-dozen that are well-suited for that at the moment.
Agreed.
On another note, why is it that the previously competent intelligence agencies of New Eden suddenly can't manage to keep anything to themselves? The amount of leaks recently is odd. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9385
|
Posted - 2017.03.20 16:53:50 -
[242] - Quote
That's certainly a worthwhile question, Ms. Varren, and to that end I have no idea but am quite curious.
The number of organizations that could reliably achieve this sort of penetration isn't long, unless a number of Federation government personnel are leaking to propel their agenda. Still, we lack any sort of information on who's providing the Scope with its information.
For that matter, it may well be that the Scope.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Hetu Hegirin
Otherwhere Circle
87
|
Posted - 2017.03.23 13:10:32 -
[243] - Quote
The H4-RP4 Kyonoke Inquest Center has opened with a statement from SoCT Elder Mentor Raish. Speaking for myself, I am glad for their resolve to purpose in an atmosphere of partisan distraction. Unfortunately I will be unable to attend, but will provide remote assistance if and when needed. Travel safely, delegates.
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Skyweir Kinnison
The Scope
Gallente Federation
432
|
Posted - 2017.03.23 14:04:04 -
[244] - Quote
Hetu Hegirin wrote:The H4-RP4 Kyonoke Inquest Center has opened with a statement from SoCT Elder Mentor Raish. Speaking for myself, I am glad for their resolve to purpose in an atmosphere of partisan distraction. Unfortunately I will be unable to attend, but will provide remote assistance if and when needed. Travel safely, delegates.
This inquest is wisely located in Federation space, where the search for objective truth and freedom of thought are most securely protected. Solitude welcomes the scientific delegations and wishes them every success.
Let's hope the State delegation doesn't flounce out the moment something they don't much like turns up. I'm guessing there's already some mega-corporate fume going on at the Federal taskforce getting there first. Yes, darlings, we are nobbling your centrifuges to spin that tiny bit slower.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
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Aradina Varren
Alexylva Paradox
112
|
Posted - 2017.03.23 14:13:03 -
[245] - Quote
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:This inquest is wisely located in Federation space, where the search for objective truth and freedom of thought are most securely protected. Solitude welcomes the scientific delegations and wishes them every success.
Let's hope the State delegation doesn't flounce out the moment something they don't much like turns up. I'm guessing there's already some mega-corporate fume going on at the Federal taskforce getting there first. Yes, darlings, we are nobbling your centrifuges to spin that tiny bit slower
It's located in Federation space because the outbreak is on a station(Making studying it from another station easier) and because it's in high security space.
The facility is neutral ground for the benefit of everyone. If you'd like to bait for arguments, consider making your own thread for it.
Feels Pretty Soft to Me.
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Persephone Alleile
Tartarus Covert Operations
352
|
Posted - 2017.03.23 14:22:34 -
[246] - Quote
Hetu Hegirin wrote:The H4-RP4 Kyonoke Inquest Center has opened with a statement from SoCT Elder Mentor Raish. Speaking for myself, I am glad for their resolve to purpose in an atmosphere of partisan distraction. Unfortunately I will be unable to attend, but will provide remote assistance if and when needed. Travel safely, delegates.
Well this is good news. Hopefully there will finally be some progress on a cure.
I'm not sure what kind of assistance I could offer, but I might just head over there to tour the facilities. The Society has some excellent research labs. |
Lauralite Anne Brezia
Wolf Brothers INC
United Neopian Federation
4
|
Posted - 2017.03.23 16:22:19 -
[247] - Quote
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:
This inquest is wisely located in Federation space, where the search for objective truth and freedom of thought are most securely protected. Solitude welcomes the scientific delegations and wishes them every success.
Let's hope the State delegation doesn't flounce out the moment something they don't much like turns up. I'm guessing there's already some mega-corporate fume going on at the Federal taskforce getting there first. Yes, darlings, we are nobbling your centrifuges to spin that tiny bit slower.
Mr Kinnison, I do believe that if you look more closely at the Gallente Federation, their political and corporate leaders aren't as benign and truth loving as you may wish to believe, they do seem to have a checkered relationship with the concept of freedom at times, especially if you look at the FIO.
Every governmental force, regardless of background or empire is not a purely good entity, and the politcal and corporate entities that make every current government go round always seek to further their own agendas.
Bringing things back around to the current state of affairs, I will be moving UNF research personnel from our already established POS in system toward the H4-RP4 keepstar over the next few days, set them up to get familiar with the research laboratories available there.
You want to know where I'm from huh? Well, it's a long way, and several Spacial Rifts removed, from this place.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9402
|
Posted - 2017.03.23 17:24:57 -
[248] - Quote
Index post updated with news of H4-RP4's opening; omitted the border issue as it is senseless politics that have no place in a reasonable discussion of the Kyonoke crisis and collaborative efforts to resolve it.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9423
|
Posted - 2017.03.26 17:00:28 -
[249] - Quote
Also, a small notice, pilots.
In cooperation with the Fleet Coordination Commission, ARC has transported and deployed an Astrahus to the Postouvin system, deployed some 1,000km off the H4-RP4 Keepstar. This has been transferred to FCORD for administration during the Inquest. Please note that while a nominal 5m fee is in place for corporate offices, all clone activity has been subsidized, ensuring free jump clones and medical clones in the Postouvin system for those wishing to stage.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9448
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 17:34:28 -
[250] - Quote
An update, pilots, and a welcome display of collaborative intent in trying times.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Hetu Hegirin
Otherwhere Circle
92
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Posted - 2017.03.28 17:39:15 -
[251] - Quote
Corporate research teams have arrived at the H4-RP4 Inquest Center. I am pleased to read that the spirit of cooperation is prominent among these recent arrivals. Additionally, I am eager to hear from the joint delegation of Boundless Creation and Six Kin Development with regard to the situation on the Muttokon FE platform.
Edit: This is why I leave combat to better suited (faster reacting) pilots.
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s¦èߦ¢ß¦£ß¦¢ß¦óߦç-Ç#3035 =ƒÄ¦
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1468
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 18:06:30 -
[252] - Quote
Expeditions to the platform.
... interesting. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9449
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 18:25:50 -
[253] - Quote
Yes.
Quite risky.
We'll have to see how this goes.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
933
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 20:28:33 -
[254] - Quote
Got 10 isk on one of those research teams being spys sent to sabotage the other faction's research..... that's what happens in all the holos.
I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
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Sinjin Mokk
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
1203
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 15:23:45 -
[255] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Yes.
Quite risky.
We'll have to see how this goes.
It generally goes like this. Some well-meaning person tries to help out and inadvertently helps spread a given pathogen far beyond the containment area resulting in a logarithmic increase in the amount of people infected.
What part of "stay away from the plague" do people have a problem with?
The infected are already dead, and while it's unfortunate, letting a few million people die will prevent the loss of billions.
Do the math and stay the hell away.
"Angels live, they never die,
Apart from us, behind the sky.
They're fading souls who've turned to ice,
So ashen white in paradise."
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Rhoxy Runekin
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
60
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 18:40:39 -
[256] - Quote
Is there something about the pit which is preventing remote broadcasts from reaching within it? Admittedly, i was largely unaware of the Kyonoke virus until recently when the outbreaks began, but it would seem that remote drone research of such a plague would have been established. I would like my services as a robotics engineer, and advanced biological analyst, to supplement the Inquest team however I can. Poteque Pharmaceuticals, as well as Ishukone can vouch for my meaningful support. |
Victoria Grey
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 19:58:25 -
[257] - Quote
With official science teams from the great four, my crew and I are standing ready to provide what assistance we can first in Muttokon and if need be, also in Postouvin. This is our declaration of continued assistance regarding new developments. |
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
933
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 20:23:10 -
[258] - Quote
Victoria Grey wrote:With official science teams from the great four, my crew and I are standing ready to provide what assistance we can first in Muttokon and if need be, also in Postouvin. This is our declaration of continued assistance regarding new developments.
You have enough Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L to take out those quarantine zones? Because that's about the most useful thing we could do right now.
I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3222
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 20:38:18 -
[259] - Quote
Tyrel Toov wrote:Victoria Grey wrote:With official science teams from the great four, my crew and I are standing ready to provide what assistance we can first in Muttokon and if need be, also in Postouvin. This is our declaration of continued assistance regarding new developments. You have enough Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L to take out those quarantine zones? Because that's about the most useful thing we could do right now.
God and spirits no no no no no no NO!
Please stop suggesting this it's a terrible idea you'll end up spreading plague-loaded wreckage it's a prion it's very simple it isn't alive if you don't destroy all the protein structures it won't DIE. If you blow its host ship/station/whatever to bits it'll just ride the wreckage.
You entomb it or you tow it into a star. This is NOT a case where even antimatter bombardment is going to be a way to be sure, and plasma charges aren't even close, so gods and spirits please stop talking about this like you weren't going to be helping the plague if you actually tried to do it! |
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
110
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 21:42:06 -
[260] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:
God and spirits no no no no no no NO!
Please stop suggesting this it's a terrible idea you'll end up spreading plague-loaded wreckage it's a prion it's very simple it isn't alive if you don't destroy all the protein structures it won't DIE. If you blow its host ship/station/whatever to bits it'll just ride the wreckage.
You entomb it or you tow it into a star. This is NOT a case where even antimatter bombardment is going to be a way to be sure, and plasma charges aren't even close, so gods and spirits please stop talking about this like you weren't going to be helping the plague if you actually tried to do it!
I can't agree with this more.
All current studies regarding this pathogen shows that is extremely resistant to contemporary forms of containment.
If there is nothing that can be done for the living then the next step regardless of how inhumane must be the destruction. And nothing insures that more than a star.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9450
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 22:48:54 -
[261] - Quote
A small update. It would appear a second Amarr science team has been dispatched to Postouvin, to follow the one from Inherent Implants.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2356
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 23:40:35 -
[262] - Quote
How dare they try to out co-operate the Federation by sending more people to help! Quick, somebody tell the Senate to send more scientists to out research the Amarr!
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9450
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 23:43:35 -
[263] - Quote
You know, I do like those sorts of competitions.
Just remember! The research race's tagline will need to be, 'First. Fastest. Furthest.' to properly motivate participants!
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9452
|
Posted - 2017.04.02 14:06:59 -
[264] - Quote
a significant update, pilots! Expeditions are underway to all quarantine zones.
We'll soon see if penetrating these quarantine zones was bold action or hubris.
Either way, personnel are streaming into Postouvin and we'll soon see what results.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1502
|
Posted - 2017.04.02 14:18:04 -
[265] - Quote
About damned time. Spirits below, if there are any survivors left in that orbital platform, it'll be a miracle. Of course, they're still keeping all useful information away from us capsuleers as well as hiding their operations from our sight. Muttokon II's containment and staging center still detects exactly zero activity.
Damn their eyes if all these delays are proving lethal. |
Aradina Varren
Alexylva Paradox
125
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 08:39:58 -
[266] - Quote
"..breach the quarantine zones established around Kyonoke Plague infected sites in Postouvin, Muttokon, Efu and Oijanen."
Expeditions to all of the quarantine zones it seems. Call me a pessimist, but I can't see this ending well. A large gathering of people in an enclosed space, many of whom have been exposed to Kyonoke? I really hope the SoCT is sure they know what they're doing.
Feels Pretty Soft to Me.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3242
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 10:11:39 -
[267] - Quote
Aradina Varren wrote:"..breach the quarantine zones established around Kyonoke Plague infected sites in Postouvin, Muttokon, Efu and Oijanen."
Expeditions to all of the quarantine zones it seems. Call me a pessimist, but I can't see this ending well. A large gathering of people in an enclosed space, many of whom have been exposed to Kyonoke? I really hope the SoCT is sure they know what they're doing.
Me too.
They're also the people who managed to make a smaller-scale quarantine actually work somehow, though, so.... |
TomHorn
Kresh Leaves
296
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 10:40:54 -
[268] - Quote
All eyes in New Eden will be focused on the goings on at the H4-RP4 Kyonoke Inquest Center this week and the plague infected sites in Postouvin, Muttokon, Efu and Oijanen.
News that the first operation has been success , is good start for the international group and welcome news. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9455
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 17:16:47 -
[269] - Quote
News from aboard H4-RP4; an attack targeting Postouvin quarantine records.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2360
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 02:50:01 -
[270] - Quote
Link dosen't work for me....
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
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TomHorn
Kresh Leaves
297
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Posted - 2017.04.04 03:13:16 -
[271] - Quote
Whats the word on the Keepstar Priano-Hanni , who's believed to be behind the attack ? any names being bandied around ? you are there aren't you ?
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3250
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 18:08:02 -
[272] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:Whats the word on the Keepstar Priano-Hanni , who's believed to be behind the attack ? any names being bandied around ? you are there aren't you ?
So far we haven't really been briefed, pilot. Participants are kind of filtering in, but so far I don't think any of us have information that isn't available to others.
There's a lot of speculation, of course, but it looks like we might need to wait for the Inquest to actually open before there'll be much news beyond what's already being said. |
Hetu Hegirin
Otherwhere Circle
104
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 22:17:12 -
[273] - Quote
As was noted by capsuleer delegates earlier today, an address was issued by Inquest R&D Director Veranne. Given the nature of the keynote, it is not surprising that the details uncovered this afternoon by capsuleer investigators went unmentioned.
Personally, I am more than a little concerned by the data points we are seeing.
-¦¦Ç+¦fߦÅߦìߦÅ-Çߦÿ-£ ߦäߦÅߦìߦìߦ¢ß¦Ç+ó
s¦èߦ¢ß¦£ß¦¢ß¦óߦç-Ç#3035 =ƒÄ¦
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9462
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Posted - 2017.04.06 23:38:18 -
[274] - Quote
We haven't necessarily collated all of the data gathered today; while operational decisions are being made with full available information, we haven't had the bandwidth to completely inventory and publish the data.
That said, we'll make every effort to make everything available as soon as possible.
Also, it's worth noting that there are still very significant gaps in the information, such as how Federal Security Services were in fact the party in possession of Akira Kasaras, and who exactly Jaron was colluding with, and of course how exactly it all came about.
There's still significant confusion on whether Rook and Vulture are callsigns for friendly or hostile operatives.
The next day will prove interesting.
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Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
16
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Posted - 2017.04.07 00:52:34 -
[275] - Quote
Would you please share the voting options/decisions at least before a full report ? |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3266
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 08:12:44 -
[276] - Quote
So ...
Yesterday's vote was a proposal by the Amarr to commence involuntary testing of a vaccine, versus a proposal by the Matari to, I think, cooperatively reconstruct the affected sites after the danger passes. I'm assuming what made this an either/or choice was probably a matter of limited resources and priorities, since there's no way these options are really incompatible.
Anyway, the Amarr measure passed by a narrow margin.
What happens today, we'll see. Briefing is in a little over two hours. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9464
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 08:28:52 -
[277] - Quote
The issue at this point is that the Empire's vaccine is untested, and we don't know if deployment of an untested vaccine will complicate matters once we are able to secure subject 7 and more information about the successful treatment evidently involved in that case.
Whatever the case, what's done is done.
Ms. Jenneth, would you be available for a quick consultation before this morning's briefing? I believe we aim to have a stakeholder's meeting at perhaps 0945...?
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Skyweir Kinnison
The Scope
Gallente Federation
441
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Posted - 2017.04.07 09:10:47 -
[278] - Quote
One piece of information that is significant in its omission, is the national composition of the capsuleer teams.
From the postings here, it seems that the State and Empire are strongly represented. This means that any findings by the Inquiry are hardly going to be impartial. Dr Priano is, for example, immediately proceeding from the assumption that the Federation is at fault as evidenced by her a priori stance on the FIO in each post she makes on the IGS. She is an influential person, able to be physically present at the Inquiry when many other voices are not so privileged.
The report that the Amarr delegation has managed to vote through a proposal for involuntary experimental testing - in Federation space, which is governed by our Constitution that outlaws such brutal disregard for human rights - is highly disturbing, and indicative of serious bias in the Inquiry.
As ever with CONCORD events, this looks like becoming a untrustworthy farce. I will of course, be happy to be proven wrong.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3266
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Posted - 2017.04.07 09:54:10 -
[279] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:The issue at this point is that the Empire's vaccine is untested, and we don't know if deployment of an untested vaccine will complicate matters once we are able to secure subject 7 and more information about the successful treatment evidently involved in that case.
Whatever the case, what's done is done.
Ms. Jenneth, would you be available for a quick consultation before this morning's briefing? I believe we aim to have a stakeholder's meeting at perhaps 0945...?
Available, yes. Uh ... where, though? The obvious area is cordoned off, I think? |
Aradina Varren
Alexylva Paradox
125
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Posted - 2017.04.07 09:56:26 -
[280] - Quote
"The Federation isn't doing enough! This is clearly the fault of the Caldari."
Feels Pretty Soft to Me.
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Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1075
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 11:39:18 -
[281] - Quote
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:
EDIT: It might also be useful to agree on one single thread for Inquiry reports and updates, as I keep discovering scattered information throughout this forum. For those of us forced to be observers, this is irritating to say the least.
Yes, please. Can someone start one?
|
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
782
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 11:56:12 -
[282] - Quote
Via my brother Clytoneus, I have over 12,000 currently uninfected slaves positioned in the Efu SoCT station hanger, all of Minmatar ancestry. I hereby grant consent for these slaves to be used in any form of Kyonoke testing desired by the committees in charge of these things. The consent of the slaves themselves, of course, is not required.
Give my slaves your vaccine, wire them up with monitoring devices, and then push them into the infected decks of the station. Either this Kyonoke crisis will end, or God will be glorified in the destruction of filthy Minmatar slaves.
P. S. About 200 of these slaves are held in trust for Ms. Raske and not available for testing. They have been set apart from the others. |
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
119
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 16:28:23 -
[283] - Quote
Lunarisse Aspenstar wrote:Skyweir Kinnison wrote:
EDIT: It might also be useful to agree on one single thread for Inquiry reports and updates, as I keep discovering scattered information throughout this forum. For those of us forced to be observers, this is irritating to say the least.
Yes, please. Can someone start one?
Can be found here
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
|
Veronique Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 16:30:20 -
[284] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:Via my brother Clytoneus, I have over 12,000 currently uninfected slaves positioned in the Efu SoCT station hanger, all of Minmatar ancestry. I hereby grant consent for these slaves to be used in any form of Kyonoke testing desired by the committees in charge of these things. The consent of the slaves themselves, of course, is not required.
Give my slaves your vaccine, wire them up with monitoring devices, and then push them into the infected decks of the station. Either this Kyonoke crisis will end, or God will be glorified in the destruction of filthy Minmatar slaves.
P. S. About 200 of these slaves are held in trust for Ms. Raske and not available for testing. They have been set apart from the others.
I know the Federation won't allow for human testing. Not even with Kyonoke. |
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
119
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 16:34:19 -
[285] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:Via my brother Clytoneus, I have over 12,000 currently uninfected slaves positioned in the Efu SoCT station hanger, all of Minmatar ancestry. I hereby grant consent for these slaves to be used in any form of Kyonoke testing desired by the committees in charge of these things. The consent of the slaves themselves, of course, is not required.
Give my slaves your vaccine, wire them up with monitoring devices, and then push them into the infected decks of the station. Either this Kyonoke crisis will end, or God will be glorified in the destruction of filthy Minmatar slaves.
P. S. About 200 of these slaves are held in trust for Ms. Raske and not available for testing. They have been set apart from the others.
Do you also have 12,000 slaves of every other ethnic group? Using only the Matari might spark some sort of outrage?
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
|
Victoria Grey
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 16:47:57 -
[286] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:Via my brother Clytoneus, I have over 12,000 currently uninfected slaves positioned in the Efu SoCT station hanger, all of Minmatar ancestry. I hereby grant consent for these slaves to be used in any form of Kyonoke testing desired by the committees in charge of these things. The consent of the slaves themselves, of course, is not required.
Give my slaves your vaccine, wire them up with monitoring devices, and then push them into the infected decks of the station. Either this Kyonoke crisis will end, or God will be glorified in the destruction of filthy Minmatar slaves.
P. S. About 200 of these slaves are held in trust for Ms. Raske and not available for testing. They have been set apart from the others.
Nauplius' blatent disregard for life or conduct continues to surprise me with every post. And it happens so often it shouldn't.
Not only does this suggestion likely outrage many on here but it also seems to be nothing more than a taunt with little regard to the effectiveness of the suggestion which would mean you could care less what the result is and only like to see suffering.
I know it's not a common capsuleer trait but try to have at least a semblance of compassion. If not toward non-holder life, but for those suffering and future sufferers of the Speck. |
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
119
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 17:45:30 -
[287] - Quote
[quote=Victoria Grey Nauplius' blatent disregard for life or conduct continues to surprise me with every post. And it happens so often it shouldn't.
Not only does this suggestion likely outrage many on here but it also seems to be nothing more than a taunt with little regard to the effectiveness of the suggestion which would mean you could care less what the result is and only like to see suffering.
I know it's not a common capsuleer trait but try to have at least a semblance of compassion. If not toward non-holder life, but for those suffering and future sufferers of the Speck. [/quote]
Ignore the source for just a moment.
If SoCT decides to use Human Testing then 12,000 Matari is unwise. Focusing on just one ethnicity does not make for good science.
Now if there 12,000 humans comprised of all the peoples of the cluster then we have far better spectrum. This becomes better science.
But in truth we don't need any testing despite the offer of a "donation." Expeditions have been dispatched to infection site where the experiment has already been conducted.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3267
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 18:33:51 -
[288] - Quote
The alarm just triggered: Kyonoke detected aboard. To probably nobody's great surprise.
It's a little hard to detect. I wonder how long it's been here. |
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
20
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 18:38:54 -
[289] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:The alarm just triggered: Kyonoke detected aboard. To probably nobody's great surprise.
It's a little hard to detect. I wonder how long it's been here.
At least since 119/04/02
All the intel publicly available outside the Inquest is being gathered here. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1520
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 18:40:39 -
[290] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:The alarm just triggered: Kyonoke detected aboard. To probably nobody's great surprise.
It's a little hard to detect. I wonder how long it's been here.
Okay, this is starting to become a farce. Who writes this crap? No really, this is starting to look like poorly written fiction more than anything else.
New Eden's doing my bloody head in, I swear. |
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9466
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 19:22:27 -
[291] - Quote
All else aside, ARC is happy to report capture of former CSM Xenuria during an attempted theft of Society property.
It's been a busy day; we'll be trying to document recent captures shortly.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1967
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 19:26:27 -
[292] - Quote
How undignified.
Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle
Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Lord Consort of House Sarum
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Charles Cambridge Schmidt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
422
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 20:33:26 -
[293] - Quote
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:How undignified.
And unsurprising.
I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
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Rhoxy Runekin
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
64
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 20:39:47 -
[294] - Quote
And what were they even stealing? Are those Aurum tokens all over the floor? |
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
664
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 21:28:22 -
[295] - Quote
Rhoxy Runekin wrote:And what were they even stealing? Are those Aurum tokens all over the floor?
Society security chips. The thief was apprehended and handed over to station security.
Pilots, we have a Kyonoke outbreak at H4-RP4. Considering the fact The Society managed to contain it within the station in Efu, we should be good. Cyrillian Voth and Elinari Rhodan are working on a situation update as we speak and we back up all relevant data in case if it comes to the worst.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
|
Hetu Hegirin
Otherwhere Circle
105
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 21:41:04 -
[296] - Quote
SCOUT have staged several new depots with fresh medical supplies and research personnel outside H4-RP4, should the opportunity arise to utilize them. Otherwise, the landscape outside the Keepstar is mostly static.
-¦¦Ç+¦fߦÅߦìߦÅ-Çߦÿ-£ ߦäߦÅߦìߦìߦ¢ß¦Ç+ó
s¦èߦ¢ß¦£ß¦¢ß¦óߦç-Ç#3035 =ƒÄ¦
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Aradina Varren
Alexylva Paradox
126
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 22:04:57 -
[297] - Quote
Now I feel a little bad for my earlier cynicism, seeing as it turned out to be accurate.
Let's hope that they can quarantine this more effectively. Given the incubation period of Kyonoke, I'd expect restrictions on travel away from the keepstar.
I wish the best for anyone who might have been exposed, I can't imagine being in your position.
Feels Pretty Soft to Me.
|
Loai Qerl
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
212
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 23:27:18 -
[298] - Quote
I really did love you all. <3 |
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
21
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 23:36:39 -
[299] - Quote
By now everyone would be used to the death and ressurection show that we capsuleers perform from time to time. Sure, some deaths are worse than others, but we have the best tech available to ensure we are not gone for long.
My main concern is for the crew and scientists that are not fortunate (nor rich) enough to have access to cloning tech. Hope their respective institutions had updated clones of them prior to the Inquest.
If any capsuleer does get infected, take the express way out of this body and get on a new one fast. |
TomHorn
Kresh Leaves
297
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 23:48:06 -
[300] - Quote
Jaret Victorian wrote:Rhoxy Runekin wrote:And what were they even stealing? Are those Aurum tokens all over the floor? Society security chips. The thief was apprehended and handed over to station security. Pilots, we have a Kyonoke outbreak at H4-RP4. Considering the fact The Society managed to contain it within the station in Efu, we should be good. Cyrillian Voth and Elinari Rhodan are working on a situation update as we speak and we back up all relevant data in case if it comes to the worst.
Sounds like things are getting little grim up there.
|
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3271
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 23:48:57 -
[301] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:By now everyone would be used to the death and ressurection show that we capsuleers perform from time to time. Sure, some deaths are worse than others, but we have the best tech available to ensure we are not gone for long.
My main concern is for the crew and scientists that are not fortunate (nor rich) enough to have access to cloning tech. Hope their respective institutions had updated clones of them prior to the Inquest.
If any capsuleer does get infected, take the express way out of this body and get on a new one fast.
Direct cloning maybe contraindicated: neurological symptoms. Reversibility and extent of damage unclear.
Pseudo-immortality: strained a little. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3271
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 00:13:29 -
[302] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:The alarm just triggered: Kyonoke detected aboard. To probably nobody's great surprise.
It's a little hard to detect. I wonder how long it's been here. Okay, this is starting to become a farce. Who writes this crap? No really, this is starting to look like poorly written fiction more than anything else. New Eden's doing my bloody head in, I swear.
Hey, Miz? The view's a little different from over here.
Want to trade for a bit? Just a few days? |
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
21
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 00:18:58 -
[303] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Direct cloning maybe contraindicated: neurological symptoms. Reversibility and extent of damage unclear.
Pseudo-immortality: strained a little.
Well, at least i make sure that i have the most updated information stored whenever i leave my pod to avoid this exactly type of problem. As long as i do this, i have no issues with mortality.
But yes, if the ones infected have trouble with their transfer, better resort to the latest backup instead.
|
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9472
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 00:22:15 -
[304] - Quote
A more formal declaration will follow in coming days. As you can imagine, our staff is working long hours and so our publishing pace has slowed.
Today, ARC decisively supported the Caldari act for sovereignty and information integrity on containment over the Gallente act banning extreme measures to sanitize quarantine zones.
It is not ARC's desire to limit transparency. We believe all stakeholders benefit from free flow of information. However, we believe that we may need decisive action to cleanse the quarantine zones if we are unable to secure an effective treatment regime. In the interest of trying to prevent future crises of this sort, we were compelled to act against the Gallente measure.
It is our hope that a treatment regime may be developed and what survivors there are may be saved.
Hope, however, is not effective basis for policy.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
21
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 00:30:10 -
[305] - Quote
Please invite everyone at the inquest to share the information they gather so we outside can look at the material and help with process in a more cool headed way.
With the information so far there are a lot of things suggesting foul play from unkown actors, imagine with all the info that is in there.
I hope we stay focused on the safe recovery and treatment of the population instead of political powerplay from the major factions. |
James Syagrius
Reclamation
1645
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 01:20:29 -
[306] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Today, ARC decisively supported the Caldari act for sovereignty and information integrity on containment over the Gallente act banning extreme measures to sanitize quarantine zones.
In the interest of trying to prevent future crises of this sort, we were compelled to act against the Gallente measure.
Who would have thought?
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
|
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
664
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 03:22:25 -
[307] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:Today, ARC decisively supported the Caldari act for sovereignty and information integrity on containment over the Gallente act banning extreme measures to sanitize quarantine zones.
In the interest of trying to prevent future crises of this sort, we were compelled to act against the Gallente measure. Who would have thought?
Here is how it works.
There is a very cunning and malicious force in play that puts a lot of obstacles on the way of our investigators. A rogue agent, codename "Vulture", current affiliation unknown. He is actively sabotaging the Inquest and attempting to throw the investigation off course. So far a team of our investigators (big thanks to ARC Associates who decided to sign up with us at the event) has been extremely successful in a process of putting what little data we were able to retrieve and reconstruct to piece a more or less coherent picture of what is happening.
We have passed a resolution on vaccine application. It is very useful, partly because Minmatar have the vaccine. Overnight, there's been an attack on their lab and the vaccine was stolen and partly destroyed. This is "Vulture"'s doing. During the course of the day we were able piece some parts of it together and also the research data on it so we will be able to actually reconstruct it and apply to the infected according to the resolution.
The key to this is Patient 7, Akira Kasaras who disappeared from Minmatar lab under unknown circumstances. She was successfully cured of Kyonoke Plague. However, she is showing possible side effects of paranoia and excessive anger. According to the available data we have, we know she is still onboard, as is the "Vulture". "Vulture" is actively trying to eliminate her - they both were involved in the shootout at the Minmatar lab, according to the evidence we have. She is wounded right now and we are attempting to locate her. Considering the fact that we may have been exposed to Kyonoke ourselves, some of us don't care about personal safety, as you may imagine.
Today we helped pass the Caldari Resolution that still enables us to glass the quarantine zones if a need arises. If we locate Akira Kasaras, that may not be necessary, if we don't, then we are likely to be left out of a viable vaccine and by that point if things go even more sideways, we may just have one big tea ceremony. The thing is that extreme heat kills Kyonoke. Even if we successfully cure all remaining infected, we will still need to cleanse the infected areas to eliminate the possibility of another outbreak.
Personal vendettas against Amarr celebrities that other delegates try to pass with Gallente resolutions and Ex-CSM members trying to sabotage and steal Society equipment do not help resolve the situation. We are being actively sabotaged on all fronts by our fellow delegates and an extremely dangerous bioterrorist. As you may imagine, operating under such extreme conditions may be quite stressful. This is why it is important to not let nationalism take over and stay calm.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
|
Hetu Hegirin
Otherwhere Circle
107
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 03:49:31 -
[308] - Quote
Jaret Victorian wrote:James Syagrius wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:Today, ARC decisively supported the Caldari act for sovereignty and information integrity on containment over the Gallente act banning extreme measures to sanitize quarantine zones.
In the interest of trying to prevent future crises of this sort, we were compelled to act against the Gallente measure. Who would have thought? Here is how it works. [...]
Admittedly, Priano-haani issued a statement that left me disconcerted and disheartened. I had hoped for a commitment to science from ARC, which appeared to be set aside in order to cement isolationist information practices. Your explanation underscores my own ignorance of the Inquest process that SoCT have established, a process that is politicized from its very bones. This is regrettable, but not within our power to reform. We all must work within their framework during a volatile and deadly situation, and as a result, I cannot fault ARC for their decisions.
While you owed no explanation, your statement is informative and encouraging. Caution and clear thinking must prevail. Thank you, Victorian-haan.
-¦¦Ç+¦fߦÅߦìߦÅ-Çߦÿ-£ ߦäߦÅߦìߦìߦ¢ß¦Ç+ó
s¦èߦ¢ß¦£ß¦¢ß¦óߦç-Ç#3035 =ƒÄ¦
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Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
666
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 03:58:10 -
[309] - Quote
Hetu Hegirin wrote:
Admittedly, Priano-haani issued a statement that left me disconcerted and disheartened. I had hoped for a commitment to science from ARC, which appeared to be set aside in order to cement isolationist information practices. Your explanation underscores my own ignorance of the Inquest process that SoCT have established, a process that is politicized from its very bones. This is regrettable, but not within our power to reform. We all must work within their framework during a volatile and deadly situation, and as a result, I cannot fault ARC for their decisions.
While you owed no explanation, your statement is informative and encouraging. Caution and clear thinking must prevail. Thank you, Victorian-haan.
Thank you for your words. We apologize that we are unable to provide more details at the moment, but we assure you that we backup all available information and navigate the situation at the H4-RP4 facility with people's best interests in our minds.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9473
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 07:32:28 -
[310] - Quote
The unfortunate thing is that we are not able to vote against resolutions, excepting that we support another. Were it possible, the ARC coordination group did not like either act, and would have rebuffed them both. However, it may be necessary to undertake extreme measures to eliminate the Kyonoke pathogen, especially if we are unable to secure Akira Kasaras before 'Vulture' does. The unfortunate and brutal necessity of preserving the ability to act decisively compelled us to this course of action, despite our desire to ensure transparency.
As such, while we will be unable to ensure transparency by the major powers, ARC will be providing a full update once the Inquest closes, with all available intelligence, rationales, and general developments of each day.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9475
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 12:31:41 -
[311] - Quote
A note.
One of the most powerful other blocs is actually a single psychotic capsuleer with no desire but to spread chaos.
She's attempting to coopt ARC efforts, with the objective of... something? Possibly even just thwarting it for attention?
Whatever else happens, this vexes me.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1521
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 12:35:30 -
[312] - Quote
So there's downsides to an inquest that is buy-in and only available to those with too much money, spare time and no other pressing duties. Who'dhavethunkit. |
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
21
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 12:42:47 -
[313] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:The unfortunate thing is that we are not able to vote against resolutions, excepting that we support another; essentially, it's not A or Not-A and B or Not-B, but A or B. Were it possible, the ARC coordination group did not like either act, and would have rebuffed them both. However, it may be necessary to undertake extreme measures to eliminate the Kyonoke pathogen, especially if we are unable to secure Akira Kasaras before 'Vulture' does. The unfortunate and brutal necessity of preserving the ability to act decisively compelled us to this course of action, despite our desire to ensure transparency. As such, while we will be unable to ensure transparency by the major powers, ARC will be providing a full update once the Inquest closes, with all available intelligence, rationales, and general developments of each day.
I read somewhere that you can make amends to the text so that is not A OR B, go for AB option. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9477
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 13:12:59 -
[314] - Quote
Doing so is prohibitively expensive.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Ria Nieyli
50539
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 14:42:38 -
[315] - Quote
Apparently, there's a Kyonoke outbreak onboard the inquest Keepstar.
Glass everything. It is the only way. |
Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1077
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 15:02:05 -
[316] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:The unfortunate thing is that we are not able to vote against resolutions, excepting that we support another; essentially, it's not A or Not-A and B or Not-B, but A or B. Were it possible, the ARC coordination group did not like either act, and would have rebuffed them both. However, it may be necessary to undertake extreme measures to eliminate the Kyonoke pathogen, especially if we are unable to secure Akira Kasaras before 'Vulture' does. The unfortunate and brutal necessity of preserving the ability to act decisively compelled us to this course of action, despite our desire to ensure transparency. As such, while we will be unable to ensure transparency by the major powers, ARC will be providing a full update once the Inquest closes, with all available intelligence, rationales, and general developments of each day. I read somewhere that you can make amends to the text so that is not A OR B, go for AB option.
According to a contact I have in the InQuest, the "SoCT have made it too expensive to offer that amendment" Whatever that means. |
Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1077
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 15:04:07 -
[317] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Doing so is prohibitively expensive.
You are the second person to say this to me.
Can you explain?
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Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
25
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 15:28:42 -
[318] - Quote
Crowdfund the resources!
Tomorrow on The Scope: "Cheap capsuleer bastards dont want to spend resources to solve problems that major factions started. As usual, the population suffer. RIOTS and decapitaded heads from the upper and burocratic class everywhere." |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9477
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 16:48:34 -
[319] - Quote
ARC's funding is largely sourced by our various associates and members. We're in good stead at the moment, and believe the final day's actions will hopefully prove our dedication to transparency. The modification we wished for on the second day, however, would have prevented us from passing our preferred act.
A cure has been sourced and is in production, and our associates in space and in the station are attempting to ensure security as we attempt to completely secure the facility before conclusion of the Inquest.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
25
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 16:51:02 -
[320] - Quote
There is a huge difference between:
- Hey, the tab for the proposal that is not binary will be 1 trillion isk, we don-¦t have it, give us moneys
and
- It-¦s expensive, won-¦t happen. |
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Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
1322
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 17:10:18 -
[321] - Quote
I love the second guessing being done by people who are not there of people who are there. Really drives home a few important facts about Capsuleers. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1526
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 17:20:53 -
[322] - Quote
It's more questioning that they're locking these procedures behind amongst other things a massive paywall - not payable in ISK by the way - and other things ensuring that only a few get to be part of it, when it's affecting potentially all of New Eden. That really drives home a few important facts about the powers that be. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3274
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 18:01:26 -
[323] - Quote
Well ... it looks like we really might not die.
A cure's assembled. Side effects so far, from experience: very uncomfortable to receive, causes dizziness.
Oh, and we found the saboteur: our somewhat dubious project director was apparently a clonejacking victim.
The vote to not glass ourselves and the cure was a little one-sided.
Maybe ... this will be okay.
If all goes well, it may be a couple days, but, unless something else awful happens, it looks like we'll make it through. It's not probably going to be as simple as just casting a vote, but, it looks like this will be all right. For once ... maybe ... we aren't just "gods of destruction." |
Kasuko Merin
Anshar Incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
8
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 18:07:49 -
[324] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:It's more questioning that they're locking these procedures behind amongst other things a massive paywall - not payable in ISK by the way - and other things ensuring that only a few get to be part of it, when it's affecting potentially all of New Eden. That really drives home a few important facts about the powers that be.
What are you going on about? Paywalls? Did I miss a news article? |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1528
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 19:14:49 -
[325] - Quote
Not everything is in the news. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3105
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 19:51:38 -
[326] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:A cure has been sourced and is in production, and our associates in space and in the station are attempting to ensure security as we attempt to completely secure the facility before conclusion of the Inquest.
A cure that's gonna be available in sufficent quantity to purge the Keepstar where the cure's being produced?
Honestly, who didn't see this coming? Dire warnings about how freakin' stupid it is to put all your eggs in one basket, and criticisms of single-point-of-failure systems aside, even the vaccine for this thing makes people nutjobs. And now the cure's under security lockdown because hey, guess what, everyone where the cure is is gonna die, and they turned off all of the communications systems. Wouldn't want anyone transmitting the cure to other production facilities, I guess.
It's times this that I really think we should've just blown up that keepstar before the scientists started arriving.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9480
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 20:02:16 -
[327] - Quote
Notably, Arrendis, members of the staff who tried to escape were gunned down on the docks, and the clonejacker was caught via detection of innervation issues arising from the process. Significant strides have been made to secure the facility, and reliable parties have been used to corset the existing forces aboard the station.
I think we're going to manage.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
James Syagrius
Reclamation
1647
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 20:33:29 -
[328] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:The unfortunate thing is that we are not able to vote against resolutions, excepting that we support another; essentially, it's not A or Not-A and B or Not-B, but A or B. Were it possible, the ARC coordination group did not like either act, and would have rebuffed them both. However, it may be necessary to undertake extreme measures to eliminate the Kyonoke pathogen, especially if we are unable to secure Akira Kasaras before 'Vulture' does. The unfortunate and brutal necessity of preserving the ability to act decisively compelled us to this course of action, despite our desire to ensure transparency. As such, while we will be unable to ensure transparency by the major powers, ARC will be providing a full update once the Inquest closes, with all available intelligence, rationales, and general developments of each day. While I thank you for your measured response, something about this whole situation smells.
Jaret Victorian wrote:As you may imagine, operating under such extreme conditions may be quite stressful. This is why it is important to not let nationalism take over and stay calm. I would imagine it is. You gave a very thorough yet concise description of the situation... as you see it. But you will forgive me if I don't take you at your word. I hope you prove me wrong, by practicing what you preach.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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James Syagrius
Reclamation
1647
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 20:36:08 -
[329] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Not everything is in the news. A truer statement was ever uttered.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3106
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 23:03:52 -
[330] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Notably, Arrendis, members of the staff who tried to escape were gunned down on the docks, and the clonejacker was caught via detection of innervation issues arising from the process. Significant strides have been made to secure the facility, and reliable parties have been used to corset the existing forces aboard the station.
I think we're going to manage.
Not for nothing, Makoto, but on a facility of that size, there's really no way to be completely sure that someone hasn't slipped off into the dark parts of the structure, bearing the pathogen in their own system. Not in such a short amount of time. That's one of the reasons quarantines exist: you wait long enough that if there was anyone still infected, they'd be nice and visible and busy with the process of dying.
So how long does something the size of a Keepstar remain quarantined to ensure there aren't still carriers secreted away in the bowels of the structure, stuffed into a cryotube somewhere to try to wait out the authorities? How thinly do security forces have to spread to comb every nook and cranny of the structure, knowing that the more thinly-spread they are, the more likely they are to be insufficient to deal with a small, fortified group of armed maniacs with a biological weapon who can hit them from ambush? After all, if they don't spread out, the search takes longer, it's easier for a small group to move from place to place to evade the search, and if the searchers do get exposed, there's more chance of it getting back ot the general population of the Keepstar.
That's not a search you conduct in a matter of hours, or probably even days. Not if you want to be sure. Not if you want the rest o the cluster to believe you're sure. And until that's done, the whole thing has to stay locked down. Which means none of that cure is getting out. Heck, the cure can't even be produced until the facilitiy can be guaranteed clear, because again, it needs to be trusted.
Start producing the cure before the facility can be credibly and thoroughly searched top to bottom, and the next move by the terrorists is a no-brainer: start spreading rumors that the cure has been tainted, that they got to it before security caught them. Hello wide-spread panic! So the cure gets delayed... because everyone thought it was a great idea to introduce a single point-of-failure to a system that didn't need one.
And for the record: suddenly there's a cure? Three whole days of collaborationGÇömuch of it in conferencesGÇöand there's a cure already tested and independently verified by completely uninvolved parties? The long-term side effects are understood? The virus is definitely completely gone, and won't flare up again in a year, turning all those 'cured' people into carriers to deliver bioweapons to all the places they've spread out to?
Do the rest of us a favor while you're all locked up there: take another two weeks, heck, take a month, and solve all the problems of cluster-wide peace and resource management.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3278
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 23:54:22 -
[331] - Quote
It wasn't us that found it, though, except in the most literal sense.
It was freshly discovered, but mostly untested, when we arrived. The Inquest had just also caught a bad case of saboteur, who was also, himself, infected. |
Auriga Menkalinan
Signal Cartel
EvE-Scout Enclave
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 00:06:48 -
[332] - Quote
Do the Servant Sisters have any representatives at the inquest? Given their humanitarian mission, their low profile throughout this whole saga has been bothering me.
Apologies for the idle question and my thanks to all those putting themselves at risk to help. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3108
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 01:59:38 -
[333] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:It was freshly discovered, but mostly untested, when we arrived.
That sounds a whole lot like 'no, we have no idea what the long-term side effects are, let's unleash this on millions of people and watch things be exponentially worse in a year!'
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Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
673
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 02:36:17 -
[334] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:It was freshly discovered, but mostly untested, when we arrived. That sounds a whole lot like 'no, we have no idea what the long-term side effects are, let's unleash this on millions of people and watch things be exponentially worse in a year!'
You weren't there. You haven't seen the amount of data, reports and patient dossiers there is. It is huge. I've personally seen my colleague Morwen Lagann go ahead with vaccination procedure, and it is well within the abilities of SOCT to establish a quarantine in the station environment. The situation is as secure as it can be.
Auriga Menkalinan wrote:Do the Servant Sisters have any representatives at the inquest? Given their humanitarian mission, their low profile throughout this whole saga has been bothering me.
We haven't encountered any SOE delegates.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3108
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 03:06:09 -
[335] - Quote
Jaret Victorian wrote:Arrendis wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:It was freshly discovered, but mostly untested, when we arrived. That sounds a whole lot like 'no, we have no idea what the long-term side effects are, let's unleash this on millions of people and watch things be exponentially worse in a year!' You weren't there. You haven't seen the amount of data, reports and patient dossiers there is. It is huge. I've personally seen my colleague Morwen Lagann go ahead with vaccination procedure, and it is well within the abilities of SOCT to establish a quarantine in the station environment. The situation is as secure as it can be.
No, I wasn't there. But the cure was just recently found, right? So: what are the long-term side effects? Do you know? If so, how do you know?
What are the long-term side-effects of the vaccine, for that matter? A vaccine is a very different thing from a cure, so: is what was found a cure, ie: something that will benefit those already infected, or a vaccine, which prevents contracting the disease in the first place? Is there now a vaccine and a cure?
Because really, especially in the case of a vaccine, if you don't know the long-term side effects, then you don't know if this will actually prevent outbreaks, or just transform people into carriers, where the virus can ride along until the protection weakens after a period of time. Because knowing the long-term effects is important before letting people out into circulation again. A Keepstar has what... 130 million people on it? And obviously, they're not people who'll never travel through space. How dispersed will those people be in a year? Five years? Ten?
If there's a long-term exposure risk, how many people will they be putting at risk?
And if you're going to claim the Society has information on the potential side effects and efficacy of cure and/or vaccine 5-10 years down the road... where did they get that data? Who have they been vaccinating and repeatedly exposing to the plague? Right now, there's a lot of hype and patting of onesselves on the back, but just speaking as an engineer, the degree of scientific rigor and safety procedure being applied here falls just barely above the level of scientific rigor applied to Theology Council rulings. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3278
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 06:25:44 -
[336] - Quote
Hee ... well, it's maybe not something we should go blithely walking out by shuttle even after receiving, even if I very strongly feel like doing that exactly. The plague is still here, after all, even if our bodies aren't safe environments for it. It'll probably be a while before, especially, the basic form of the speck is fully removed from the environment.
It seems the bodies of treated persons have some use in manufacturing and spreading the cure to others. I wonder if the medical teams here would have use for mine if I jump away?
Basically, Ms.Culome, it's not exactly a normal vaccine; rather, it's a treatment, I think probably nanite based, that cleanses the body of specks and sticks around to prevent the subject picking up more.
First-generation administration is uncomforable, but nothing we don't already experience as capsuleers. ("Start intubation" are slightly alarming words to be surprised by while lying on a procedure table. In the researchers' defense, they were kind if in a rush.) (I apologize if that was maybe more information than was wanted.)
Side effects ... it's a little hard to say. I don't think it'll follow me through a clone jump, but, at least, neither should any nasty malformed proteins be getting themselves copied along with the rest of my neurochemistry.
I think we'll wait a little longer before trying such things; the cure cleanses the body only over time.
Still, I get to see home again! I'd kind of given up on ever getting to do such a thing, myself, that is, as this version of me. I really thought I was going to be dead by now. |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
2062
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 09:31:59 -
[337] - Quote
Arrendis wrote: the cure was just recently found, right?
There is another possibility here, Arrendis, one that raises more questions.
Maybe, this cure has not been just recently found. It has merely been recently announced.
That the persons behind this cure, have had that cure for years, or decades even, and have only chosen to reveal it now, because it is politically expedient.
That is, they gain some political benefit right now, for presenting this cure to the wider New Eden community.
Smoke And Mirrors.
Now, if they had a cure, then there are two possibilities - they either have been weaponising it themselves, or expecting others to weaponise it. Both of which raise further questions, regarding how this cure has been developed. What, or rather who, was this tested on, hmm ?
As for the long-term effects, well. How about this possibility:
Take political advantage of a Kyonoke outbreak, and announce cure A, which you know has some long-term detrimental effects, and release it to the rest of the cluster. For your own citizens, you give them cure B, which you know has no long-term detrimental effects.
This weakens everyone else, while your own peoples are unaffected.
Smoke and Mirrors, Arrendis.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
679
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 10:09:44 -
[338] - Quote
That is why the last resolution is in place - we will get all research data.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
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Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
2062
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 10:19:11 -
[339] - Quote
Jaret Victorian wrote:That is why the last resolution is in place - we will get all research data.
And you are confident that all the research data is entirely legitimate ? That it relates to actual experiments and research that was conducted ? That none of this data is a simple fabrication to conceal decades of research, and suggest the research was carried out over a period of just a few weeks instead ?
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
679
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 10:34:05 -
[340] - Quote
That is why we amended it to include third party audition of the data ;) still, I believe Nakoto Priano will be able to provide more details.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9482
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 11:28:40 -
[341] - Quote
We amended the resolution to include terms on auditing records to ensure veracity and completeness. We're currently collating all on-site data for a more organized and complete release.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3280
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 11:55:37 -
[342] - Quote
Uh-- also, usually I'd have some concerns about putting an experimental "cure" into widespread use without stuff like clinical trials, but ... well, I guess it's possible that the cure could be worse than the disease, but, really, in this case that would be really impressive.
Really. Really. Impressive.
(Maybe if the plague and cure turned out to be sapient, made common cause against us all, and struck a deal with Sansha Kuvakei to edit victims into True Slave plague vessels instead of killing them?)
As it is, any surviving plague victims may not mind if we skip a few steps and go straight to human, including capsuleer, trials. Actually even if they DO mind I don't know that I really have qualms.
I'm sure Jaret Victorian can let you know if I'm found drooling viscera beside the butchered remains of Ms. Priano in the next few hours?
In the meantime, the dizziness has worn off, the discomfort's long since passed, and I'm not dead. Did I mention not dead? Also not dying?
It's kind of nice! |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9482
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 12:04:18 -
[343] - Quote
Not dying is kind of nice, indeed!
Also, please no entrail-eating. Inside bits really do best remain inside.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3112
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 12:15:07 -
[344] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:
It seems the bodies of treated persons have some use in manufacturing and spreading the cure to others. I wonder if the medical teams here would have use for mine if I jump away?
Basically, Ms.Culome, it's not exactly a normal vaccine; rather, it's a treatment, I think probably nanite based, that cleanses the body of specks and sticks around to prevent the subject picking up more.
[. . .]
Side effects ... it's a little hard to say. I don't think it'll follow me through a clone jump, but, at least, neither should any nasty malformed proteins be getting themselves copied along with the rest of my neurochemistry.
And this isn't raiding red flags? You think it's nanites. Nanites that can spread to others. So they need to be self-replicating, which means they need to use resources from their environment. You know, there are terms that describe tiny, not-quite alive things that feed off their hosts in order to self-replicate so they can spread to other hosts. So we've now introduced an artificial virus that can either evade or overcome the hosts's immune system (otherwise, it would be eradicated). And the trasmission vector from person to person is... what? Skin contact? Exchange of bodily fluids/ Are these things airborne if you cough or sneeze or just, you know, exhale?
Let's all be amazingly grateful nothing ever goes wrong with nanotech programming, and that these aren't going to be infecting everyone in the cluster in a matter of years... or less.
Except, you know, that they are. If everyone in the quarantine zones has to be vaccinated, and these things persist (which they'd have to, in order to prevent re-infection), then all the people leaving those stations will be carrying them. Everyone coming to those stations to make deliveries will be picking them up, and carrying them off to their next port of call. Of course, we don't know how it will affect infants (or even pre-natal) or their biological and psychological development, do we? Well, sucks to be them, they'll all have these things from their mothers anyway.
Best case, nothing happens. Everyone's fine forever living with these things in their bodies. It's still creating a template for someone to do the exact same thing with their own nanites that are designed to wait until a specific date or condition, and then, I dunno, turn everyone into Sansha puppets. And how would we know? Everyone's already got nanites in 'em. Makes it a little hard to detect the new ones.
And we don't even know if these things spread to other life forms. Can you infect your cat? How does the cat's body respond? How would a slaver hound's? What effect would that have on the nanites?
You realize this idea of 'let's make a treatment that spreads unchecked on its own' isn't the way this crap is normally done, right? That there's a reason medical science doesn't just go willy-nilly introducing new infectious agents into the environment the way this inquest just did?
Seriously, that keepstar needs to be obliterated before this nano-plague gets out into the cluster. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3112
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 12:19:50 -
[345] - Quote
And just another tiny little side-note: if this crap spreads itself to other people, then the whole 'mandatory vaccination' thing is a farce. Not that a bunch of geneticists and capsuleers had the authority to mandate that anyway, but you know, grabbing power and making life-and-death decisions for other people is so easy to go along with, isn't it?
Did you participate in any of the voting, Aria? |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3281
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 12:33:06 -
[346] - Quote
I ... think maybe you (and we, and everybody) would be well-advised to read the data on this stuff before jumping to such conclusions, Ms.Culome. As far as I know, the treatment requires some actually kind of embarrassingly and painfully intrusive methods of administration, and I don't think I'm exactly a walking cure distributor; it's more that something in the blood of a cured person is useful for synthesizing more of the cure, I think?
Also has the quarantine been lifted already? It seems sensible to keep the keepstar and other quarantine area as exactly that, and let those of us inside leave only by jump clone (after being treated, plus time for it to work; accidentally replicating a Koyonoke "basic" prion-type speck in a clone's brain while copying neurochemistry would be BAD). I wasn't exactly planning on walking my potentially biohazardous self over to the Holy Grape or anything-- more like jump out and contribute the scanner-scorched vessel to more cure production and go back for the implants after quarantine gets lifted? |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1534
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 12:41:29 -
[347] - Quote
If there ever was a point when I lost all hope in New Eden's nations, this would be it. We have a contagion quarantined in four particular places, so the solution is...
- Let the SoCT deal with it.
- Set up an insane voting system with binary options.
- Leave the voting up to a random selection of capsuleers, locking everyone else out of the proceedings.
- Mysteriously research, invent and manufacture a 'cure/vaccine' within days.
- Doubling down, let's make it self-replicating nanite technology.
- Force this on the entire cluster, untested, with literally no safeguards.
- The four nations of New Eden apparently have no problem with this insanity?
- A few capsuleers didn't have to use some clone back-ups. Yaay.
What. the. hell. is. going. on.
Seriously. The only reason I can tell this isn't some sort of horrifyingly bad piece of fiction is that the existence of such a horrifyingly bad writer is impossible. This is, bar none, the least credible, stupidest, most outrageous nonsense I have ever seen in my entire life. By what spirits-blinded authority did this farce get authorized?
Every single medical professional and researcher in my employ have basically gone "Nope, this just didn't happen. It wouldn't, anywhere." until there's some form of proof delivered, because there is nothing in this entire insanity of a proceeding that ever gets even remotely close to anything even remotely resembling normal procedures for these situations.
This is quite literally more terrifying than the notion of Kyonoke running rampant through New Eden. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3285
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 12:43:06 -
[348] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:And just another tiny little side-note: if this crap spreads itself to other people, then the whole 'mandatory vaccination' thing is a farce. Not that a bunch of geneticists and capsuleers had the authority to mandate that anyway, but you know, grabbing power and making life-and-death decisions for other people is so easy to go along with, isn't it?
Did you participate in any of the voting, Aria?
It's a little odd, and the decision-making process was resricted in odd ways, but apparently the empires did delegate, I guess, some kind of tiebreaking authority to us. If someone gives you power, well, you have power. So....
(It's not like it's much weirder than the level of freedom they already give us anyway. This could maybe be described as the great powers leaving certain decisions to a bunch of smaller nation-states, really.)
Anyway, yeah, I had a little power here, and, per instructions, put such modest political influence as I secured behind ARC. SFRIM's been involved with the Consortium from the start, I think? |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3286
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 12:57:09 -
[349] - Quote
Another thing-- it seems like people have an idea that the cure's to be tested on literally everyone?
Uh ... no. Just Koyonoke victims. Meaning, presently, this'll also be in the quarantine zones.
Assuming they don't just let us all walk out of here. That might be a very bad call. Jump or medical clones, please. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3115
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 13:39:14 -
[350] - Quote
A few points:
A) So, you don't feel you can trust your judgment when it comes to your own life, but you're willing to exercise that judgment over the lives of others? Do you think that's a responsible view to take?
B) I took the 'spreads to others' bit from what you've said. If I've misread your statement and misunderstood, then I apologize for misunderstanding.
C) If I have not, and this is a persistent nanomachine presence that will be me introduced by mandatory vaccination to millions of space travelers on the affected outposts (including the Keepstar), then yes, this will be getting tested on everyone. Because if it's persistent, then it will outlast the quarantine. It would kind of have to, because if it doesn't outlast the quarantine, then you can't guarantee the quarantine's effectiveness. If it does outlast the quarantine, then it will still be there when these travelers arrive in other places, where it can be spread to others. Thus my question regarding vectors, because if this thing can be spread to others, then it will be spread to others, and what makes it persistent and effective is precisely the human immune system's inability to purge the body of the foreign agent (ie: the nanites). That is... inescapable.
As it is, if it's persistent but not communicable, well, it's a foreign body that will have to be able to get into every major system of the human body in order to 'cleanse' it, so we can throw that our right there. At the very least, it'll be communicable via sex. Hell, antibioties are, they just don't self-replicate and usually aren't present in large enough concentrations to be noticed by the recipient.
BUT... even if that's the only way its communicable, that still means every single child born to a vaccinated woman, or the descendents of those women, forever, will have this in their system.
By the way, since it does have to be self-replicating to be persistent over the long-term... what's the cut-off? How does it decide 'hey, there's enough of us here, let's stop consuming the body we're supposed to protect'? There has to be a mechanism for that, or you've basically introduced nano-cancer. |
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3286
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 14:27:26 -
[351] - Quote
A: I'm a pilot. It's inevitable that others' lives will be in my hands whether I trust my own judgment or not, if I'm to do my job.
In any case, the choice of how to vote was largely made for me: I had orders to back ARC, absent clear reason not to, and was in frequent contact with the Praefecta throughout.
B: I believe I said the body of a treated person is useful in manufacturing and spreading the cure, which might have been misleading. It's useful for synthesizing the cure, which can then be distributed to others.
The full details on long-term effects are still a little unclear, but I imagine the kinds of questions you're asking are answerable, or will be in time. The researcher who treated me said it might be a very long time before Koyonoke and its cure are fully understood, so further trouble's totally possible.
(That last is my inference, to be clear, not her statement.)
It's not like messing with tech we barely understand is rare for us, though. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9486
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 15:37:28 -
[352] - Quote
Alright. I've had a moment to discuss some matters with staff, and it appears we may be able to begin releasing more properly collated materials in the coming days. We're still doing a lot of clean-up and after the last several days' constant work I'm comfortable with giving the staff some time to breathe and recover. A formal briefing will come once we have had full time for analysis.
That said, from the intelligence we've seen, I'd say this as a provisional assessment:
There was no particular need for scientific work on the part of the Inquest attendees. However, we were instrumental in countering the saboteurs' work to prevent the scientific work from being acted upon, and in breaking a deadlock on action by the Empires. It's not unknown for small parties with relatively little impact in the grand scheme to serve as kingmakers; this was the role we played in an Inquest convened by the Society, but jointly supported by the Big Four. The Society had essentially been paralyzed by infiltration, and the Empires had been deadlocked in usual fashion.
We possess a cure. The science behind it is not something I'm well-briefed on, but we know this because it was tested, if in limited amounts. It does appear to work. Any preexisting damage will likely require significant treatment to address, and there is a likelihood that some cases will be too advanced for the infected to become a functioning member of society again.
The background situation is as such.
It appears that a group - represented by codenames Rook, Vulture - had growing intelligence on a planned operation by Ohmon Kasaras, Jaron Kasaras, and Odaka Pakera, among others, who were an as-yet-unknown group of nationalist extremists. They used this intelligence to coopt Akira Kasaras, who was unaware of the plans until intelligence provided to her caused her to investigate, and to use her position as a family member to join the terrorist plot as a double agent. Akira Kasaras was requested to bring a sample of the Kyonoke pathogen to Astral Mining by Rook.
This request appears to be pursuant to a weaponization study done by the intelligence agency Rook and Vulture were operating on behalf of, given their signals intelligence and other capabilities.
It seems likely that the sabotage aboard H4-RP4 structure may have been to restrict knowledge of operations relating to the weaponization study conducted by this intelligence organization, which may have been put to the test, to the detriment of a civilian population. The cure, being dependent on Akira Kasaras and intelligence relating to her, was seemingly viewed as an acceptable collateral casualty. This will also explain the unusual circumstances aboard the RP4 orbital, which notably differed from the initial infections at the three other quarantine zones.
I will refrain from theorizing on which intelligence agency or agencies were active in this incident.
I will theorize, however, on two key points.
It does seem increasingly likely that State forces, in possession of at least some intelligence pertaining to the plot, closed borders to prevent spread of the Kyonoke pathogen if the plot had not in fact been thwarted.
It also seems likely that the downing of the Quafe convoy may have been on the suspicion, well-founded or not, that the empty bottles might have been used as a vector widespread infection. Alternatively, it may simply be the product of an exceedingly jumpy commander who lacked complete information.
Whatever happens, now that a cure has been developed, it seems likely that at least two empires will need to bring a torch into those dark places, to shine a light, and perhaps to put it to fire.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3116
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 16:04:07 -
[353] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:A: I'm a pilot. It's inevitable that others' lives will be in my hands whether I trust my own judgment or not, if I'm to do my job.
In any case, the choice of how to vote was largely made for me: I had orders to back ARC, absent clear reason not to, and was in frequent contact with the Praefecta throughout.
You made the claim that Senators in the Federation are accountable to their constituents becaose of voting. But you intentionally corrupted the democratic process? If that can be done when individuals of immense personal power are the voters, what makes you think the widespread system involving the masses is any more resistant to corruption and voter-manipulation? Just something to think about before the next time you claim trusting authority isn't cultural suicide.
Quote:
B: I believe I said the body of a treated person is useful in manufacturing and spreading the cure, which might have been misleading. It's useful for synthesizing the cure, which can then be distributed to others.
See, I did misunderstand what you were saying. My bad. That doesn't change the issues of persistent, self-replicating nanomachines that the host's immune system can't purge, mind you.
Quote:
The full details on long-term effects are still a little unclear, but I imagine the kinds of questions you're asking are answerable, or will be in time. The researcher who treated me said it might be a very long time before Koyonoke and its cure are fully understood, so further trouble's totally possible.
(That last is my inference, to be clear, not her statement.)
It's not like messing with tech we barely understand is rare for us, though.
And it was such a good idea every other time, too. Don't you see? The long-term effects are important. They're probably more important than the immediate effects. Because, as I said, there's no way this stuff doesn't get into the next generation. There's a reason vaccines aren't generally given at birth. So what happens to the kids who have these nanites in ther bodies before their brains are even brains? Because again: self-replicating t-cell-evading nanomachines will be getting into everyone's junk that way.
So yeah, having any idea at all of the effects of this treatment 6 months down the line, or a year, or ten years... it's kinda normally required before anything like this goes into mass circulation.
And something this far-reaching? Realistically, nobody should be leaving that keepstar, via neurology replication or ortherwise, for a decade or more. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3286
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 16:26:28 -
[354] - Quote
That seems ... a little excessive. And not just because I'd feel obligated to leave someone a small mess to clean up so I could resume my duties.
To me this seems largely like "deal with that when we find out about it" stuff, Ms. Culome. And maybe some advisories, rather than "maintain watch for three generations to see if they just show a tendency toward anemia or do something more hoflick-worthy." |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3116
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 16:40:31 -
[355] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:To me this seems largely like "deal with that when we find out about it" stuff, Ms. Culome.
And how widespread will it be by then? How many people will have to 'deal with it'? Again: there are reasons this kind of irresponsible rush to implementation is not the norm. These things get tested for decades before you release them into the wild, and that's just the stuff that isn't self-replicating.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3116
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 16:51:21 -
[356] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:
It appears that a group - represented by codenames Rook, Vulture - had growing intelligence on a planned operation by Ohmon Kasaras, Jaron Kasaras, and Odaka Pakera, among others, who were an as-yet-unknown group of nationalist extremists. They used this intelligence to coopt Akira Kasaras, who was unaware of the plans until intelligence provided to her caused her to investigate, and to use her position as a family member to join the terrorist plot as a double agent. Akira Kasaras was requested to bring a sample of the Kyonoke pathogen to Astral Mining by Rook.
So, to break this down:
1. The Kasarases were part of an as-yet-undentified ultra-nationalistic group.
2. That group is still unidentified, which means it's still out there.
3. Rook and Vulture were operating on behalf of some intelligence agency, ie: state (small 's') actors.
4. They, in effect, hijacked Akira Kasaras to use as a speck-mule to bring the speck to them on the Astral Mining platform?
5. This may or may not have been some kind of test of a weaponsized speck?
6. The cure entered into their calculus, which means it was known to them weeks ago before they got Akira Kasaras to go to the Astral Mining platform?
7. Vulture was apprehended aboard the Keepstar attempting to... do something that doesn't seem in keeping with the 'these guys were working against the ultra-nationalists' angle?
8. None of this explains the other 3 outbreaks, is that correct?
I'm just trying to understand what the story here is, because... if I read you right, pieces don't add up. |
Jev North
Anshar Incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
753
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 17:23:13 -
[357] - Quote
I can't even read the word "speck" anymore. It's just a jumble of letters to me now, one that leaves me vaguely angry.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3116
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 17:25:51 -
[358] - Quote
Jev North wrote:I can't even read the word "speck" anymore. It's just a jumble of letters to me now, one that leaves me vaguely angry.
Dat's cuz you don't get no re-speck 'round heah. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9491
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 17:30:01 -
[359] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:
So, to break this down:
1. The Kasarases were part of an as-yet-undentified ultra-nationalistic group.
2. That group is still unidentified, which means it's still out there.
3. Rook and Vulture were operating on behalf of some intelligence agency, ie: state (small 's') actors.
4. They, in effect, hijacked Akira Kasaras to use as a speck-mule to bring the speck to them on the Astral Mining platform?
5. This may or may not have been some kind of test of a weaponsized speck?
6. The cure entered into their calculus, which means it was known to them weeks ago before they got Akira Kasaras to go to the Astral Mining platform?
7. Vulture was apprehended aboard the Keepstar attempting to... do something that doesn't seem in keeping with the 'these guys were working against the ultra-nationalists' angle?
8. None of this explains the other 3 outbreaks, is that correct?
I'm just trying to understand what the story here is, because... if I read you right, pieces don't add up.
We expect more information in coming days. As such, much of this narrative may be disproven. I base what I have off of materials seen at H4-RP4, most of which has been rebroadcast elsewhere, but which will be more formally published in coming days.
1) Two of the three are, per presently available intelligence. The third, Akira, served as a mole.
2) I suspect most of the group was in fact known to FIO, and possibly later to the State intelligence services once Ohmon Kasaras was identified. I would be surprised if the group hasn't been run down. However, I lack information this, and so this is conjecture. I also suspect this group was not large, given the increasing probability of being run down before they could achieve their objectives.
3) Yes.
4) Yes.
5) This is conjecture on my part. However, all other quarantine sites were infected by individuals already infected, while RP4 was infected via distribution from the ventilation system, much as was described in the weaponization study.
6) The exact timing remains uncertain. We do know that Patient 7, Akira Kasaras, was known to the parties in question. We know that Rook requested a sample of the pathogen. Akira Kasaras then appears on the RP4 facility in Postouvin. Further, she was certainly being used as a test subject by Poteque Pharmaceuticals, and much of the information on her was classified per the Federal Secrets Act. The cure itself was developed later. However, it may have been that Rook and Vulture were focused on ensuring that their actions did not come to light.
7) My suspicion is that the motivations of Rook, Vulture, and their parent organization are complicated. It appears to be primarily cointel. If, for instance, they believed that the State was now most exposed, and were hostile to the State, then preventing a cure might be a reasonable objective. However, all of this is conjecture.
8) Efu's initial patient was a Civire male who arrived, ill, at a private dock. I would not be surprised if that was Ohmon Kasaras, or another of the plotters. Similarly, Odaka Pakera crashed, ill, near Myrskaa, and is confirmed to be another of the plotters. I may've missed intelligence on the identities of the initial patients for Muttokon. However, I would not be surprised if the plotters, exposed during initial efforts to retrieve the pathogen or by Akira Kasaras, attempted to go to ground, not realizing that they were already infected.
As said, there is much conjecture here, though it serves mostly to connect data we have into a cohesive narrative.
As the information from the Inquest is more properly collated, ARC will be publishing a formal after action report with all data.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9491
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 17:32:11 -
[360] - Quote
Also, a small addition: speaking personally as a member of the coordination team, I'd like to extend my deepest personal thanks to Naava Edios and Phoenix Naval Systems. As ARC is a loose-knit coalition and PNS operates as one of our independent security contractors, the depth of their drive and their focus during the Inquest may very well have made the difference between success and failure in our various objectives.
Thank you, Naava.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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|
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1541
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 17:33:24 -
[361] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Dat's cuz you don't get no re-speck 'round heah.
I won't even bother telling you what that one earned you. You already know. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9494
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 22:24:02 -
[362] - Quote
As we have some additional time, I'll summarize ARC's handling of votes here. A more in-depth discussion will follow with the formal AAR.
Each day, before voting, the coordinators on site and any stakeholders participated in deliberations on how to exert our influence. To that end, decisions were made based on the current situation and such information as we were presented at the time. Please note that in some cases, because the acts weren't diametrically opposed, we were compelled to vote in ways that were not necessarily optimal.
Day One:
- Amarr declaration: begin immediate, mandatory treatment testing in quarantine zones on all exposed populations.
- Minmatar declaration: begin joint restitution to cover for rebuilding quarantine zones after resolution of the crisis.
During the first day, we were for much of the day uncertain on whether or how a treatment would be developed, and so viewed the Amarr resolution as at best wasteful or at worst likely to prevent deployment of an effective treatment developed later. To that end, despite being ambivalent about the Minmatar declaration, we decided to support it over the Amarr resolution. That ambivalence, however, resulted in a relatively minor use of our influence, and so the Amarr resolution passed. With events since then, we believe that the Amarr resolution should hopefully work out. We reserved much of our influence for the next day's work.
Over the course of the day, we developed an understanding of the scope of the situation: the escape of a patient, loss of equipment, and continued presence of saboteurs aboard the station.
Day Two:
- Caldari declaration: preserve non-transparency in containment in each empire's handling of quarantine zones.
- Gallente declaration: ban use of extreme sanitation measures in each quarantine zone.
During the second day, we began making progress. At times it seemed slow and halting, and so we remained uncertain of success in the face of active sabotage efforts, which included a firefight in the concourse of the levels reserved for Inquest work. To this end, despite preferring transparency, we deemed it necessary to preserve the ability to use extreme measures if necessary to clear quarantine zones. Given the nature of the crisis, preserving contaminated areas was deemed non-viable without a cure. ARC coordination and stakeholders overwhelmingly favored the Caldari measure, and given challenge by an apparently psychotic but influential independent capsuleer, we employed our full influence to push the Caldari measure decisively.
Over the course of the day, we made significant progress in securing assets related to the cure already developed by Poteque Pharmaceuticals, but were uncertain if we'd be successful in securing the remainder, or in identifying and neutralizing the saboteurs.
Day Three:
- Amarr and Caldari declaration: immediately cleanse all quarantine zones.
- Gallente and Matari declaration: share all information pertaining to research and investigation of the Kyonoke crisis.
The third day was decisive. We had full grasp of the remaining matters to resolve, familiarity with the staff and facility, and after the challenge on the day prior were motivated to leave no question of our ability to close matters. Having preserved the ability of each state to do what was necessary in their own zones, we strongly favored the Gallente and Matari resolution, to ensure transparency where it mattered: on research and intelligence. To that end, with the overwhelming support we were able to garner from staff and capsuleer alike over the third day, ARC was able to both amend the Gallente/Matari act to ensure proper audit procedures for the information sharing to try to curtail the inevitable shady business, and then to pass the act with a frankly embarrassing margin of victory.
Now, we honestly didn't have time to thoroughly vet extensive legalese behind the fairly pithy acts put before us. This is not ideal by any measure. The devil is, after all, in the details. Provided that the administration of the Inquest remains true to its objectives, and that our work has merited the political capital to reduce empire politicking to avoid being pinned down by the Inquest, the Inquest participants essentially have resolved:
1) All quarantine zones will see the immediate deployment of a treatment regime that appears to successfully cure the infected.
2) All empires have license to take measures in their quarantine zones as they see fit, without outside interference, beyond deployment of the cure.
3) All empires are now compelled to share research and intelligence data, and to allow auditing to verify the veracity and completeness of the records they share.
Honestly, I think we did pretty damned well. I believe I speak for all of those we've worked with that the results were as close to ideal as could be managed given the unforgiving circumstances and timeline.
As always, however, we'll see what happens in reality, once this all leaves the pressure cooker of the Inquest halls.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Sakura Nihil
Faded Light
397
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 22:49:17 -
[363] - Quote
I'm honestly surprised with how well things turned out. Instead of seeing tens of millions of people dying (plus losses from a Keepstar's destruction), there's a cure, the infected locations can be assisted, and one of the culprits has been apprehended. When's the last time we saw the best-case scenario play out in a situation like this?
Two things still nag me a bit:
1) Maybe I missed the memo, but why did Vulture and Rook do this in the first place? Are they just assholes, or do they have a motive beyond just spreading mayhem and destruction?
2) Why did they hit the targets they did? No offense to those infected, but their target selections were abysmal. If you're going to spread a plague in the hopes of infecting large populations, why would you spread it on several backwater stations, and one third-rate planet?
As a parting thought, seriously, can we just tow the Kyonoke Pit into the star already? Or hire PL to give it a scorching blast of several hundred doomsday shots already?
Glory
|
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9494
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 22:54:19 -
[364] - Quote
Ms. Nihil; I believe it's important to note that Rook and Vulture weren't part of the original plot. That appears to be a cell of possibly Dragonaur-related extremists. Rook and Vulture coopted Akira Kasaras, and in the resulting chaos during the early stages of the Kasaras/Pakera plot, appear to have possibly infected RP4 on their own, or at least locked it down if the infection was actually done by the extremists.
Essentially, there are two groups operating in here that have some culpability.
I can only assume, after all, that any FIO operation with proper oversight would've simply aimed to scuttle the Kasaras/Pakera plot without attempting to secure a sample of the Kyonoke pathogen.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Sakura Nihil
Faded Light
397
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 23:01:05 -
[365] - Quote
Mm. I'll defer to you on the majority of your points, except for the last bit... were I in FIO, I would see the chance to acquire a sample of the pathogen as too good to pass up.
From their perspective, not only would acquiring it take it out of the hands of extremists, but it would put it into your hands, allowing for a "safe" study where potential countermeasures could be devised, in case it was ever unleashed on Federal populations at-large. At least, that's what they'd be telling themselves while they do such a reckless thing.
In any event, as they say, "op success".
Glory
|
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9494
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 23:03:45 -
[366] - Quote
Surely.
Of course, while Rook and Vulture appear to be operating as part of some sort of intelligence apparatus, we don't necessarily know that it's FIO. There are suggestive points of data, but by no means anything decisive.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Oland Jan
Antumbra
9
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 23:05:19 -
[367] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Ms. Nihil; I believe it's important to note that Rook and Vulture weren't part of the original plot. That appears to be a cell of possibly Dragonaur-related extremists. Rook and Vulture coopted Akira Kasaras, and in the resulting chaos during the early stages of the Kasaras/Pakera plot, appear to have possibly infected RP4 on their own, or at least locked it down if the infection was actually done by the extremists.
Essentially, there are two groups operating in here that have some culpability.
I can only assume, after all, that any FIO operation with proper oversight would've simply aimed to scuttle the Kasaras/Pakera plot without attempting to secure a sample of the Kyonoke pathogen. Sorry but I don't follow, who exactly are you blaming?
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Sakura Nihil
Faded Light
397
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 23:06:14 -
[368] - Quote
At least the coming days and weeks should be interesting, thanks to the amendments of the Hope resolution.
I'll start making popcorn.
Glory
|
DeT Resprox
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
319
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 23:25:08 -
[369] - Quote
Ushra'Khan medical supply vessels are currently en-route en-masse to Muttokon.
Ushra'Khan Leader + Founder // T.R.I.A.D CEO // EVEPANDORA.COM
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1541
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 23:37:17 -
[370] - Quote
DeT Resprox wrote:Ushra'Khan medical supply vessels are currently en-route en-masse to Muttokon.
You have docking access at the MCSC citadel in orbit over Muttokon II.
... although that said, so far there's still no indication we're needed. |
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9494
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 23:45:32 -
[371] - Quote
Oland Jan wrote:Sorry but I don't follow, who exactly are you blaming?
Essentially, that two groups were involved. One appears to be an extremist nationalist cell, possibly Dragonaur-related. The other is some sort of intelligence apparatus. Currently-available intel nods suggestively at possibly off-reservation FIO operatives trying to cover up an attempt to research the Kyonoke pathogen, but is by no means decisive.
If my suppositions are accurate, both the State and Federation have some housecleaning to do.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Sakura Nihil
Faded Light
397
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 23:56:03 -
[372] - Quote
Whoops, one last thing to add - does anyone know the full name of the maintenance technician I was working alongside yesterday? His help was instrumental in discovering Patient 7 and thus securing the cure, and I promised him 50M ISK and a pair of beers for his assistance. He seemed cool helping us out even without the financial incentive, but I promised and I try to keep my word.
Please forward any relevant information on him to me through private mail, if possible. Thanks.
Glory
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3119
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 23:56:31 -
[373] - Quote
I'm still extremely wary of the safety of this cure/treatment/vaccine. Is this actually a persistent (ie: self-replicating) nanomachine treatment? Are we really looking at infecting vast swaths of humanity and other forms of life with an artificial virus whose long-term effects are unknown in the name of expediency?
I get that people want to help the folks in the quarantine zones, but I really do have to question the sanity of endangering trillions to save a couple hundred million or so. |
Jesse James Horn
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 00:29:31 -
[374] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Oland Jan wrote:Sorry but I don't follow, who exactly are you blaming?
Essentially, that two groups were involved. One appears to be an extremist nationalist cell, possibly Dragonaur-related. The other is some sort of intelligence apparatus. Currently-available intel nods suggestively at possibly off-reservation FIO operatives trying to cover up an attempt to research the Kyonoke pathogen, but is by no means decisive. If my suppositions are accurate, both the State and Federation have some housecleaning to do.
Hrm... interesting. We will take a look at the final report , when it comes out.
|
Oland Jan
Antumbra
9
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 01:19:38 -
[375] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Oland Jan wrote:Sorry but I don't follow, who exactly are you blaming?
Essentially, that two groups were involved. One appears to be an extremist nationalist cell, possibly Dragonaur-related. The other is some sort of intelligence apparatus. Currently-available intel nods suggestively at possibly off-reservation FIO operatives trying to cover up an attempt to research the Kyonoke pathogen, but is by no means decisive. If my suppositions are accurate, both the State and Federation have some housecleaning to do. Thank you for the clarification.
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Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2144
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 02:32:05 -
[376] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:I'm still extremely wary of the safety of this cure/treatment/vaccine. Is this actually a persistent (ie: self-replicating) nanomachine treatment? Are we really looking at infecting vast swaths of humanity and other forms of life with an artificial virus whose long-term effects are unknown in the name of expediency?
I get that people want to help the folks in the quarantine zones, but I really do have to question the sanity of endangering trillions to save a couple hundred million or so.
In other words, you would like to peruse their publications, documentations and technical data sheets, especially those pertaining to safety tests?
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3287
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 02:46:19 -
[377] - Quote
Ms. Culome, I'm too tired to argue.
My guess at the nanite-based nature of the cure is just that: a guess, based partly on what I'd guess would be needed to counter the speck and partly on the basic state of modern medicine. The mixtures being experimented with during the Inquest were ... a little odd. The researchers never really brought up the word "nanite," or any other word. It's a very-imperfectly-educated guess. That's all.
(Where in all the worlds did you get the impression either that I was somehow bound to respect the democratic process or that I "corrupted" it? It wasn't exactly one vote a head to begin with, and I didn't think there was anything unusual about people involved in this kind of politics forming voting blocs? Are you just kind of picking anything in reach to beat me over the head with right now?)
(Are you really that disappointed we didn't all end in a fireball?)
The station's getting resupplied, presently, and I'm okay with respecting the quarantine while it lasts.
Can you maybe stop yelling? (I know you probably think you're not, but I say, like, one thing, and I get back a doctoral thesis on how wrong I am based on something I once said I thought might be the case.) |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1542
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 06:39:30 -
[378] - Quote
Every concern she's raised is a valid one and none of them have been really been answered by anyone, other than with a whole lot of deflection. |
Jev North
Anshar Incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
754
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 06:40:47 -
[379] - Quote
Mm. Could it be she's basically asking the wrong people.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1542
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 09:46:06 -
[380] - Quote
Public forum, public discussion, and it's not like the people weren't involved. It's almost as if this is worthy of some discussion, given that somehow these people were given the power to determine the fate of New Eden by some undetermined means and this raises questions.
It's not like anyone's got a gun to their head to respond, and it'd appear that some people apparently have access to information and events others don't. Again, for undetermined reasons.
Is it surprising that questions are raised about a charlie foxtrot of these proportions? |
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Lasairiona Raske
Akagi Initiative
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
289
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 10:40:25 -
[381] - Quote
Aria, and all the others who were present, can I just say how much your work has been appreciated? Thank you for all your efforts. GÖÑ
Are you a devil or an angel
Sent here from heaven or from hell?
Sweet temptress, I'm wrapped in your tangles
Can't find my way out of your spell
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3120
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 12:18:03 -
[382] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:In other words, you would like to peruse their publications, documentations and technical data sheets, especially those pertaining to safety tests?
I'd also like to see a responsible period of testing and observation to provide a reasonable level of assurance that these things won't develop a replication glitch that leads to disastrous side-effects.
Aria Jenneth wrote:Ms. Culome, I'm too tired to argue.
My guess at the nanite-based nature of the cure is just that: a guess
In other words, you offered up completely unfounded speculation as on-site information, and waited two days to clear that up? I mean, it's not like even my original objections stated that the persistent nanomachines angle was a massive red flag.
Of course, there's very little else that could function like thisGÇöa normal vaccine won't help those already infected, and whatever drug treatments would constitute a 'cure' would be purged from the bloodstream... unless there were, I dunno, nanomachinery in there churning it out, which gets us right back to where we are...
Quote:
(Where in all the worlds did you get the impression either that I was somehow bound to respect the democratic process or that I "corrupted" it? It wasn't exactly one vote a head to begin with, and I didn't think there was anything unusual about people involved in this kind of politics forming voting blocs? Are you just kind of picking anything in reach to beat me over the head with right now?)
It was, as I'm pretty sure my statement made clear, a reference to your earlier insistence that because voting was involved, the Gallente Federation's Senate represented a form of authority that the people can and should implicitly trust.
Quote:
Can you maybe stop yelling? (I know you probably think you're not, but I say, like, one thing, and I get back a doctoral thesis on how wrong I am based on something I once said I thought might be the case.)
You say something utterly irresponsible and dismissive of the long-term threat that incautious introduction of a potential nanoplague after extremely limited testing poses, and then don't like having that threat laid out in the kind of detail that seems necessary to make you understand why what you're saying is, frankly, monstrous on a scale I can't even apply to the Day of Darkness. Maybe... don't make the monstrous statement in the first place? |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9495
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 12:35:40 -
[383] - Quote
The weaponization study, on review, seems to be studying spread of the Kyonoke pathogen among the population of Arcurio via various systems, most notably the transit system's air processing.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3120
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 12:40:24 -
[384] - Quote
Jev North wrote:Mm. Could it be she's basically asking the wrong people.
I'm asking the people who were there, who were involved, and who have, of their own volition, offered up information as to the nature of the plaguecure. That doesn't make this my only line of inquiry, mind you, and if I get more reliable information from people who aren't, it seems, just offering up wild speculation, I will most certainly make that information available. |
Loai Qerl
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
222
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 12:40:26 -
[385] - Quote
The data is going to be made public. We did sort of make that absolutely explicit, with amendments to ensure overview from specialists outside the research corp that developed the treatment, as part of the proceedings. But I think that has been addressed already, so.
Given the state of emergency, both general and immediate, and the very real potential for loss of all human life in the cluster, I am quite serious that any successful treatment is welcome. No matter how mysterious or insidious or what-have-you, honestly. Perhaps I was caught up in the moment a bit considering that the empires had already been authorized to sterilize--or NOT sterilize--any sites as they saw fit at the end of the proceedings. I admit that I very specifically did not want my organs to fall out and my skin to crack and slough off. We're human, no? Baseliners with ports. It's not so hard to understand the dread of a grim end like that for oneself and everybody one has ever met, even if Paradise awaits.
The knock-on results of the treatment, whatever they may be, are things that we now have leisure to face. When the plague was still a guaranteed death to millions, billions, trillions, we did not have that leisure. I have no regrets about how the matter was handled and am proud to be innoculated. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3120
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 13:29:47 -
[386] - Quote
Loai Qerl wrote:
Given the state of emergency, both general and immediate, and the very real potential for loss of all human life in the cluster,
[. . .]
The knock-on results of the treatment, whatever they may be, are things that we now have leisure to face. When the plague was still a guaranteed death to millions, billions, trillions, we did not have that leisure. I have no regrets about how the matter was handled and am proud to be innoculated.
A) Four sites, under quarantine and travel restrictions. Five, if you count the Keepstar, also quarantined. That is not an immediate threat against all human life in the cluster. It's not even close. I mean, I really do hate to sound callous here, because I'm not at all immune to the plight of those in the quarantine zones, but a few hundred million deaths in already-contained outbreaks is not 'the very real potential for loss of all human life in the cluster'. Even if it were a billion lives, that's less than 0.001% of the Amarr Empire alone.
The problem with releasing the treatment now, after such limited testing, is pretty simple: How long have we known about Kyonoke? How long has it taken to get this far in developing a treatment?
If there is some catastrophic 'knock-on' (and wow, what a dismissive and perjorative term there) effect from this, how widespread will it be? I mean, let's remove the 'people will travel to/from these places after receiving treatment' issue. New Eden is run by the profit motive. There's a vaccine/cure for the most terrifying plague ever known to man.
Anyone wanna place odds this won't be the go-to gift for the holiday season this year? No matter which holiday you pick? People will be lining up for this thing in droves. They'll be trying to get it for their kids to keep them safe. They will likely be screaming in the streets if they can't get it, and someone near them has a cold.
So...
Q: How wide-spread will the side-effects be?
A: We don't know.
Q: How debilitating will the side-effects be?
A: We don't know.
Q: How much lead-time will we have from the first test subjects displaying side-effects to their expression in the general public?
A: ABOUT AS LONG AS THE TESTING REGIME RUNS BEFORE GENERAL RELEASE.
Q: So what's the worst-case scenario, since, you know, 'hope for the best, plan for the worst'?
A: 3 days.
Q: What are the odds a cure for the cure can be developed in that window?
A: Pretty damned small, so we're back to hoping for the best.
Q: Is a longer testing period pretty much guaranteed to answer those questions?
A: Yes.
Q: Are we sure there will be side-effects?
A: There is no medical treatment in the history of man that hasn't had them. Anti-biotics are poisons, Aspirin taken for headaches thins the blood and can inhibit clotting. Caffeine spikes blood pressure, heart-rate, and stresses the kidneys. There will be side-effects. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3120
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 13:35:10 -
[387] - Quote
Loai Qerl wrote:The data is going to be made public. We did sort of make that absolutely explicit, with amendments to ensure overview from specialists outside the research corp that developed the treatment, as part of the proceedings.
And just to respond to this canard: did you establish a binding window in which the data had to be made public, relative to the distribution of the cure itself? Because as we've both pointed out, the demand for one will be exponentially higher than the demand for the other, and 'yeah, don't worry, we're getting all the data together' can eat up a lot of time when releasing it isn't a pre-requisite to making money off of it.
|
Loai Qerl
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
225
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 13:47:04 -
[388] - Quote
You aren't being callous, really, but do consider that my welcoming of this treatment is based on the fact that there was no guarantee of sterilization of any of the sites, AND!
This is important.
The fact that it was being weaponized. Factually. We still don't know exactly where the stocks are that were used to induce this outbreak in the first place, and presumably they still exist. In this very forum, right here, attempts were being made with varying credibility to foster Kyonoke's spread. YES, it was and is a real threat to all human life.
So.
And no, for the record, a specific date for disclosure was not specified other than "immediate". |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3120
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 14:02:25 -
[389] - Quote
Loai Qerl wrote:The fact that it was being weaponized. Factually.
Many plagues have been weaponized. Delivery on a wide enough scale to wipe out all human life is... incredibly unlikely. Anoikis, if nowhere else, would largely remain intact, if only because the plague becomes so virulent and destructive so quickly that some of the people in Anoikis would be completely out of touch while the apocalypse raged.
That's less likely with this, both because of the immediate demand that will arise, and the very nature of 'long-term' in those side-effects. The fact that it might take generations for everyone to be infected with the 'cure' is exactly what makes it so pervasive: because if that's how it works, then it will last through those generations.
If this was a straightfoward vaccine, I'd be a lot less concerned. If it was just a cure, I'd be a lot less concerned. Something that claims to do what every other treatment in medical history can't, ie: be both a persistent preventative and an effective counter-agent for the already-afflicted?
Yeah, that's pretty demanding that it be 100% completely understood before you let it out of the bottle, because good luck getting it back in.
|
Loai Qerl
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
226
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 14:10:31 -
[390] - Quote
Oh for the love of all the rotted damn worlds.
It is your job to fuss where other people shrug and say "Oh, it isn't my job to fuss about that". That is right and proper. One is glad to share a cluster with this fuss, and wholly delighted one doesn't share a station with it. One is going to go put some jam in some yoghurt and reflect on this multifoliate bloom of good fortune. |
|
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3122
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 14:27:34 -
[391] - Quote
Actually, yes, it is at least part of my job to look at situations and attempt to see what the long-term problems that can arise from them are. But please, do feel free to keep being snide about it. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3287
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 14:45:32 -
[392] - Quote
Thanks, Ms. Raske.
Arrendis wrote:In other words, you offered up completely unfounded speculation as on-site information, and waited two days to clear that up? I mean, it's not like even my original objections stated that the persistent nanomachines angle was a massive red flag.
Of course, there's very little else that could function like thisGÇöa normal vaccine won't help those already infected, and whatever drug treatments would constitute a 'cure' would be purged from the bloodstream... unless there were, I dunno, nanomachinery in there churning it out, which gets us right back to where we are...
I'm rarely certain of anything. Maybe my tendency to express things in tentative terms can be troublesome when I really do mean I think something's the case.
But yes, the guess was based on exactly that kind of analysis.
Quote:It was, as I'm pretty sure my statement made clear, a reference to your earlier insistence that because voting was involved, the Gallente Federation's Senate represented a form of authority that the people can and should implicitly trust.
I'm not sure when I made such a statement. As far as I can remember, democracy is a form of government of which I'm particularly skeptical precisely because it places power in the hands of the worst-informed and least-qualified.
I'm Caldari, Ms. Culome. More particularly, I'm culturally Achura. We're probably the world's strangest theocracy: rule of the remains of a once-mighty (in its own one-planet context) feudal empire by its monks, supported by scholars from other fields.
Those are the people I tend to trust to lead: thinkers. That's presumably how I was brought up, though of course I can't remember; just, my head's full of explicit or implicit arguments in favor of this. The Caldari generally trust their Executive caste in similar ways, and for similar reasons.
I trust people who, by their very position, are best-situated to see matters clearly. To me the greatest mystery of the Federation is how it's survived centuries of what to me looks a lot like rule-by-ignorant-mob.
Quote:You say something utterly irresponsible and dismissive of the long-term threat that incautious introduction of a potential nanoplague after extremely limited testing poses, and then don't like having that threat laid out in the kind of detail that seems necessary to make you understand why what you're saying is, frankly, monstrous on a scale I can't even apply to the Day of Darkness. Maybe... don't make the monstrous statement in the first place?
... I'm getting tired of having things I say to try to explain things concisely and tentatively taken as though I'd (1) stated them without ambiguity and (2) submitted them for review at some scientific journal or something. We're waiting for more information, too. I didn't think that was so unclear.
AND using those to make a stream of unflattering judgments about me. Have you been taking lessons from Miz or something? You seem to be getting along really well lately.
I'm not a very principled person to begin with; there's not much I really believe in. A lot of positions I take are just how things look to me at the moment, or reflexes I have, left over from before. So, I guess, please feel free to consider me a horrible irresponsible person if that's what you really think I am. From certain points of view, you're definitely correct.
Think what you want. I don't ... care. I guess.
Right now ... I thought I'd come to terms with death, that it wasn't something I was really afraid of anymore. Staring it in the eye for an extended period, having that long to see it coming, and then never quite arrive. It's not even as though it was very last-minute, but, I'm not used to having an extended period to consider how a timeline I'm currently experiencing is completely unique to my current body and that experience is shortly going to end. Probably horribly. Only ... it never did.
I know you kind of like chewing on people, Ms. Culome. Usually I kind of enjoy discussing stuff, but right now I'm ... I don't think I'm up to it. It's not like what happens now is in my control in any real way. I'm in quarantine. A prisoner, again, and my head's kind of all sideways.
Just for now, I'd be grateful if you could please find another sparring partner. |
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
30
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 14:57:51 -
[393] - Quote
How are the spirits inside the Keepstar? Are the non privilleged habitants happy with the cure? |
Skyweir Kinnison
The Scope
Gallente Federation
445
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 15:03:29 -
[394] - Quote
I'm waiting for the eccentric medic who will claim this vaccine causes autism in capsuleers. Because there will be a correlation.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
|
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9495
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 15:05:02 -
[395] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:How are the spirits inside the Keepstar? Are the non privilleged habitants happy with the cure?
Well, there may have been drunken celebration after the conclusion of the formal Inquest, if that's any indication.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
30
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 15:12:06 -
[396] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:
Well, there may have been drunken celebration after the conclusion of the formal Inquest, if that's any indication.
I meant after the arrival of equipments. Everyone chill headed and all with the reclusion time ? |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9495
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 15:15:12 -
[397] - Quote
Given the size of the Keepstar, I think the personnel won't suffer from any sort of cabin fever. Many of them are just glad to not be doomed.
Honestly, we'll have to see what results, but for now I'd say the initial elation after a sense of doom has resulted in a remarkable reprieve.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3287
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 15:23:32 -
[398] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:How are the spirits inside the Keepstar? Are the non privilleged habitants happy with the cure?
Right now people seem mostly pretty relieved; the festive mood hasn't really died down around here.
There's some concern about the whole situation, of course; just because we're not going to die immediately and there's hopefully relief on the way to other quarantine zones doesn't quite mean the crisis is over, and, also, we've just had a brush with a near-mythic plague whose full nature and characteristics aren't fully known. It's hard to say what the long-term effects are going to be, of either the pathogen or its cure.
I'm hoping to find out more about the cure, but, now that my role as a delegate's been exhausted information's gotten harder to come by. There were some indications at some point that the cure might have damaging neurological side-effects-- psychosis, that kind of thing, and not on the kind of extreme-term time frame Arrendis is talking about. I'm not clear on whether we ever found out for sure.
(My reference to the possibility that I might become violent wasn't me poking fun: it's an actual possibility.)
For now, there's a lot going on. I'm just kind of trying to stay out of the way. |
Thomas en Gravonere
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 17:01:34 -
[399] - Quote
In the end of the day, I am glad to see level heads persevere.
Apologies that I could not stay at the celebration long, but my attention was required elsewhere. |
TomHorn
Kresh Leaves
297
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 17:07:13 -
[400] - Quote
You diseased and guinea pig Caldari capsuleers are no longer welcome in the State. You were warned about working with outside sources.
Look at you now, diseased and guinea pigs.
Ill petition the CEP to renounce your status as Caldari citizens , we admire what you have achieved, with your international friends , cure , good, but we don't your disease ridden bodies back in the State. Ill push for medal for you , how does the glory outcasts sound?
If you see them in the State , kill them , cause brain damage so they can't clone properly, burn'em. Its only way to protect State citizens. |
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9501
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 17:17:04 -
[401] - Quote
Horn, just for you, I'm going to flounce around as much of Caldari space as I can.
Hey, maybe we can even make a parade of it!
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Sinjin Mokk
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
1216
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 17:30:58 -
[402] - Quote
So this Keepstar...
Recent business dealings have shown that Upwell stations, by their nature, have certain windows of vulnerability. During these windows, as we have seen, it is possible to inflict severe damage and even destroy these stations.
I suppose I'm being true to form in asking the "doom and gloom" questions, but what is the window of vulnerability for the Inquest Station?
I'm not advocating for additional security...I think there are too many people flouncing around the containment areas as it is...but for those who are already there, it might be wise to be mindful of time.
"Angels live, they never die,
Apart from us, behind the sky.
They're fading souls who've turned to ice,
So ashen white in paradise."
|
TomHorn
Kresh Leaves
297
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 17:33:59 -
[403] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Horn, just for you, I'm going to flounce around as much of Caldari space as I can.
Hey, maybe we can even make a parade of it!
That's just what i'd expect from you liberal extremists, you don't even reside in State Priano-Hanni. If we catch you , we'll have some whoopee time with you, then we'll burn you.
|
Persephone Alleile
Tartarus Covert Operations
374
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 17:35:08 -
[404] - Quote
Sinjin Mokk wrote:So this Keepstar...
Recent business dealings have shown that Upwell stations, by their nature, have certain windows of vulnerability. During these windows, as we have seen, it is possible to inflict severe damage and even destroy these stations.
I suppose I'm being true to form in asking the "doom and gloom" questions, but what is the window of vulnerability for the Inquest Station?
I'm not advocating for additional security...I think there are too many people flouncing around the containment areas as it is...but for those who are already there, it might be wise to be mindful of time.
From what I saw there is no vulnerability timer on this Keepstar. A wise move to keep that sort of information away from capsuleers in my opinion. |
Doctor Valate
Delve Medical Services
98
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 17:35:09 -
[405] - Quote
Well, I, for one, am pleased that some form of treatment for the Kyonoke agent has been discovered.
That's one less potential bioweapon out there, and as some of you may know, I have a particularly dim view of people who want bioweapons.
Doctor Valerie Valate. Not to be confused with the other Valerie Valate.
|
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1543
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 17:35:49 -
[406] - Quote
Unlike most Upwell structures, this is not in a capsuleer corporation and thus perfectly safe in highsec space, protected by CONCORD. Can't even bribe them for combat access like you can any other citadel in highsec. If you could, the thing would have been a smoking wreck seven days after erection on the minute I'd wager.
Unsurprisingly, this also means you can't contain the contagion on it since getting valid target bribes in for every visitor - even if you could somehow convince them all to stay there for over twenty-four hours - is next to impossible. |
Tsao Aubbes
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
Heiian Conglomerate
79
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 17:37:02 -
[407] - Quote
Sinjin Mokk wrote:So this Keepstar...
Recent business dealings have shown that Upwell stations, by their nature, have certain windows of vulnerability. During these windows, as we have seen, it is possible to inflict severe damage and even destroy these stations.
I suppose I'm being true to form in asking the "doom and gloom" questions, but what is the window of vulnerability for the Inquest Station?
I'm not advocating for additional security...I think there are too many people flouncing around the containment areas as it is...but for those who are already there, it might be wise to be mindful of time.
Regardless of when it becomes vulnerable, Sir, your corporation would need a valid declaration of war on the SoCT before you could legally shoot it. It is in highsec afterall, Sir..
No Longer a Drone Region Resident
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3124
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 17:57:26 -
[408] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:You diseased and guinea pig Caldari capsuleers are no longer welcome in the State. You were warned about working with outside sources.
Look at you now, diseased and guinea pigs.
You said that last bit already. It's bad form to repeat yourself so quickly.
|
Ashihei Shikkoken
State War Academy
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 17:58:32 -
[409] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:Ill petition the CEP to renounce your status as Caldari citizens , we admire what you have achieved, with your international friends , cure , good, but we don't your disease ridden bodies back in the State. Ill push for medal for you , how does the glory outcasts sound?
Remember Myrskaa.
I'd urge you to reconsider your petition. Let's look at the early takeaway.
- Quarantined sites will be testing ground for innoculation, an effort which could potentially save tens of millions of lives on Oijanen II, many of them State citizens.
- Inquest data will be released, which we expect will include details on suspected rogue Federation weaponization, granting the State scientific insight and potential strategic parity.
- By public accounts, Caldari researchers were instrumental in arriving at key discoveries during the Inquest, demonstrating formidable scientific and forensic capabilities of the State.
The situation will develop. Increased vigilance will be assured at the quarantine sites. The State is still sovereign within its borders and may execute a purge if innoculation proves insufficient. I think the CEP will find this outcome to be a net win, I doubt you will convince them otherwise.
pâîpé¦pé¿péñpâòpâ¦péú
NOH pé+pâüpé+pâ¦
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3124
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 18:03:20 -
[410] - Quote
Tsao Aubbes wrote:
Regardless of when it becomes vulnerable, Sir, your corporation would need a valid declaration of war on the SoCT before you could legally shoot it. It is in highsec afterall, Sir..
Not actually true. You can shoot at any non-capsuleer organization without CONCORD reprisal (and the Society, despite having eggers, is a baseliner organization), even in high-sec. Just this morning, an old instructor of mine was telling me about 'accidentally' locking up a pair of Caldari Navy Scorpions and firing a few barrages from her Oracle while helping some new graduate deal with rogue drones near Arnon. |
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3124
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 18:04:50 -
[411] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Horn, just for you, I'm going to flounce around as much of Caldari space as I can.
Hey, maybe we can even make a parade of it!
Personally, I think this is the most interesting thing to come out of the Inquest: Makoto threatening to flounce. Remember that proper flouncing requires white lacy attire, and preferably a wide, floppy hat. |
Yoshitaka Moromuo
Madhatter's Tea House
Arx Alliance
41
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 18:14:15 -
[412] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:You diseased and guinea pig Caldari capsuleers are no longer welcome in the State. You were warned about working with outside sources.
Look at you now, diseased and guinea pigs.
Ill petition the CEP to renounce your status as Caldari citizens , we admire what you have achieved, with your international friends , cure , good, but we don't your disease ridden bodies back in the State. Ill push for medal for you , how does the glory outcasts sound?
If you see them in the State , kill them , cause brain damage so they can't clone properly, burn'em. Its only way to protect State citizens.
This is a troubling view. I strongly urge reconsideration. |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
2065
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 18:24:11 -
[413] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:Horn, just for you, I'm going to flounce around as much of Caldari space as I can.
Hey, maybe we can even make a parade of it! Personally, I think this is the most interesting thing to come out of the Inquest: Makoto threatening to flounce. Remember that proper flouncing requires white lacy attire, and preferably a wide, floppy hat.
What about an outfit like Synthia's favourite dress ?
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3125
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 18:30:00 -
[414] - Quote
A short skirt's better for flouncing, but that wouldn't be unacceptable. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1544
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 18:39:45 -
[415] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Tsao Aubbes wrote:
Regardless of when it becomes vulnerable, Sir, your corporation would need a valid declaration of war on the SoCT before you could legally shoot it. It is in highsec afterall, Sir..
Not actually true. You can shoot at any non-capsuleer organization without CONCORD reprisal (and the Society, despite having eggers, is a baseliner organization), even in high-sec. Just this morning, an old instructor of mine was telling me about 'accidentally' locking up a pair of Caldari Navy Scorpions and firing a few barrages from her Oracle while helping some new graduate deal with rogue drones near Arnon.
Okay, now I want to see someone successfully suicide gank a highsec Keepstar, even if only because it'd be the single most unprecedented action in New Eden. I mean, not even plowing a supercarrier into a station can compare. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9501
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 18:48:34 -
[416] - Quote
Personally, I can't wait to see what surfaces when audits begin of FIO and Poteque records.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3126
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 18:51:07 -
[417] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Okay, now I want to see someone successfully suicide gank a highsec Keepstar, even if only because it'd be the single most unprecedented action in New Eden. I mean, not even plowing a supercarrier into a station can compare.
Structures, alas, have different rules when it comes to what your ship will even lock. Especially since Entosis warfare was introduced. It's rather annoying. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3126
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 18:54:53 -
[418] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Personally, I can't wait to see what surfaces when audits begin of FIO and Poteque records.
I have a copy of the FIO audit right here:
From: [REDACTED]
To: [REDACTED]
Re: [REDACTED]
On or about [REDACTED], [REDACTED]. [REDACTED] then [REDACTED] while [REDACTED]. [REDACTED]. [REDACTED].
[REDACTED]. [REDACTED]. [REDACTED]. [REDACTED]. [REDACTED].
[REDACTED]. [REDACTED]. [REDACTED]. Unfortunately [REDACTED] was [REDACTED] [REDACTED].
[REDACTED]. [REDACTED]. [REDACTED]. [REDACTED]. [REDACTED].
[REDACTED]. [REDACTED]. [REDACTED]. [REDACTED]. [REDACTED]. [REDACTED]. [REDACTED]. [REDACTED].
[REDACTED]. [REDACTED].
Sincerely,
[REDACTED]
[REDACTED] [REDACTED], YC119 |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9501
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 18:58:21 -
[419] - Quote
The amendment we sponsored very explicitly mentioned veracity and completeness.
That wasn't very complete, was it?
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
TomHorn
Kresh Leaves
299
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 19:11:05 -
[420] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:The amendment we sponsored very explicitly mentioned veracity and completeness.
That wasn't very complete, was it?
FIO reports made public , if that's true...!
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9503
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 19:16:46 -
[421] - Quote
Mr. Horn, believe me when I say this. We want whomever is responsible brought to justice, and subjected to the full recourse of the law. It's entirely possible my suspicions are inaccurate. But if they aren't inaccurate? Those grandstanding Federal senators are going to have a very prominent place on the stage during some phenomenal hearings.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
TomHorn
Kresh Leaves
299
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 19:24:58 -
[422] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Mr. Horn, believe me when I say this. We want whomever is responsible brought to justice, and subjected to the full recourse of the law. It's entirely possible my suspicions are inaccurate. But if they aren't inaccurate? Those grandstanding Federal senators are going to have a very prominent place on the stage during some phenomenal hearings.
I believe you Priano-Hanni , lets hope whatever is in them FIO reports , brings down Roden and Blaque at last.. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3131
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 19:25:57 -
[423] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:The amendment we sponsored very explicitly mentioned veracity and completeness.
That wasn't very complete, was it?
It was completely complete, they pre-redacted the report so that's all that was ever actually entered. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3131
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 19:29:24 -
[424] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Mr. Horn, believe me when I say this. We want whomever is responsible brought to justice, and subjected to the full recourse of the law. It's entirely possible my suspicions are inaccurate. But if they aren't inaccurate? Those grandstanding Federal senators are going to have a very prominent place on the stage during some phenomenal hearings.
Not for nothing, but 'Rook' and 'Vulture' don't exactly sound like Federal codenames.
Nor is the Federal Senate stupid enough to pre-ratifify a treaty where the specifics aren't actually enumerated. I think you'll find that your resolutions are about as binding on the Empires as they want them to be, and not one microdot more. |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
2065
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 19:30:27 -
[425] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Not for nothing, but 'Rook' and 'Vulture' don't exactly sound like Federal codenames.
Maybe that's what they want you to think !
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3289
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 19:41:02 -
[426] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:Arrendis wrote:Not for nothing, but 'Rook' and 'Vulture' don't exactly sound like Federal codenames. Maybe that's what they want you to think !
Actually, that may be true.
Seriously, it would be crazy for State operatives to use Caldari ship-naming conventions for their code names-- but possibly brilliant for exactly that reason, except that it would suggest to a suspicious mind that maybe the possibility should at least be considered, so probably not actually worth the trouble unless it's an intentional misdirection meant to keep a little tickle at the back of an investigator's mind, whispering: "Birds ... Caldari cultural markers...."
So, pretty dumb for Caldari, pretty smart for anybody else. |
Sinjin Mokk
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
1217
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 20:31:42 -
[427] - Quote
Tsao Aubbes wrote:
Regardless of when it becomes vulnerable, Sir, your corporation would need a valid declaration of war on the SoCT before you could legally shoot it. It is in highsec afterall, Sir..
The Archangel corporation doesn't usually adhere to concepts of "war dec" and generally spits on things like CONCORD and the SCoT. And you know enough about HORDE to know this doesn't fit into the Admitral's plans.
And do you seriously think my associates of either corporation want to increase the risk of this outbreak getting even further out of control? And here I thought we were friends...
I find it interesting that Upwell can produce these stations without that vulnerability gap. I suppose it's good business practice to sell something with a flaw so that customers keep coming back when it breaks. It tells us a lot about Upwell. In this case, I'm happy to learn their agenda is beneficial for us...for now.
"Angels live, they never die,
Apart from us, behind the sky.
They're fading souls who've turned to ice,
So ashen white in paradise."
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9504
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 20:33:52 -
[428] - Quote
I often forget, Mr. Mokk, that you're a spokesperson for the Angels.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Sinjin Mokk
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
1217
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 20:36:15 -
[429] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:I often forget, Mr. Mokk, that you're a spokesperson for the Angels.
I'm just a humble businessman.
"Angels live, they never die,
Apart from us, behind the sky.
They're fading souls who've turned to ice,
So ashen white in paradise."
|
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
30
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 20:42:32 -
[430] - Quote
As i read the comms where capsuleers interact, i can only think what a shame is that only on a time of crisis so many different mentalities can be brought together.
At least the social engineering was an positive accomplishment. Let-¦s see the fallout of all this.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9504
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 20:49:18 -
[431] - Quote
The first proper update on the crisis following the conclusion of the Inquest. Production of 0410 is underway.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1852
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 20:51:56 -
[432] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:As i read the comms where capsuleers interact, i can only think what a shame is that only on a time of crisis so many different mentalities can be brought together.
At least the social engineering was an positive accomplishment. Let-¦s see the fallout of all this.
Oh, those mentalities come out and chat all the time, thats usually the point people put their fingers in their ears and say "la la la" repeatedly. Its just a crisis that they do more than blindly criticise opposing views.... |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
2065
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 21:11:22 -
[433] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Valerie Valate wrote:Arrendis wrote:Not for nothing, but 'Rook' and 'Vulture' don't exactly sound like Federal codenames. Maybe that's what they want you to think ! Actually, that may be true. Seriously, it would be crazy for State operatives to use Caldari ship-naming conventions for their code names-- but possibly brilliant for exactly that reason, except that it would suggest to a suspicious mind that maybe the possibility should at least be considered, so probably not actually worth the trouble unless it's an intentional misdirection meant to keep a little tickle at the back of an investigator's mind, whispering: "Birds ... Caldari cultural markers...." So, pretty dumb for Caldari, pretty smart for anybody else.
Maybe that's what they want you to think !
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3132
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 21:14:38 -
[434] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Valerie Valate wrote:Arrendis wrote:Not for nothing, but 'Rook' and 'Vulture' don't exactly sound like Federal codenames. Maybe that's what they want you to think ! Actually, that may be true. Seriously, it would be crazy for State operatives to use Caldari ship-naming conventions for their code names-- but possibly brilliant for exactly that reason, except that it would suggest to a suspicious mind that maybe the possibility should at least be considered, so probably not actually worth the trouble unless it's an intentional misdirection meant to keep a little tickle at the back of an investigator's mind, whispering: "Birds ... Caldari cultural markers...." So, pretty dumb for Caldari, pretty smart for anybody else.
Which is exactly why they'd use it! Nobody would ever believe they're really Caldari! |
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
30
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 21:27:29 -
[435] - Quote
Well, the weaponization report talked about the aquisition of samples, so they don-¦t have access to the sample, so they-¦re probably not Caldari.
I-¦m looking foward to the declassification of the documents to see where this one came from. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3132
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 21:32:09 -
[436] - Quote
. . .
You're really calling that a 'proper' update?
Now it's an 'antidote', which makes even less sense, because an antidote is something taken to counteract an ingested toxin. Will it be an 'anti-venom' next, for use when people get bitten by a Kyonoke Snake?
This says it's been successfully tested on the Keepstar.. which means that given the time frame, it's been successfully tested for what? Two days? I mean, Saturday, you guys were on the verge of complete panic, and Aria there was writing her final goodbyes.
Two. Days. You what, take it once and you're fine? What even is it? An injection? An implant? A pill? A suppository?
Alton "ba-SEE-lisk" Haveri wrote:
With the first doses of 0410 set to arrive in quarantine zones in the State and Federation over the course of the next few hours, the inquest is believed to have saved the lives of trillions.
Trillions. In the quarantine zones. Really.
This is worse than having to listen to Haveri try to pronounce the names of ships used by literally hundreds of thousands of capsuleers every damned day. (If in his next reponrt, he pronunces 'Probe' as 'prah-BEY'? I would not at all be surprised.) Needless to say, The Scope's reputation for accuracy is still right up where it was after they claimed the M-O Keepstar was still fully staffed. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1547
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 21:45:01 -
[437] - Quote
And now it's apparently a to... damn it, what Red said.
Who writes this crap? |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3292
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 21:50:48 -
[438] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:. . . You're really calling that a 'proper' update? Now it's an 'antidote', which makes even less sense, because an antidote is something taken to counteract an ingested toxin. Will it be an 'anti-venom' next, for use when people get bitten by a Kyonoke Snake? This says it's been successfully tested on the Keepstar.. which means that given the time frame, it's been successfully tested for what? Two days? I mean, Saturday, you guys were on the verge of complete panic, and Aria there was writing her final goodbyes. Two. Days. You what, take it once and you're fine? What even is it? An injection? An implant? A pill? A suppository?
It's ... kind of a hybrid of the first and last? She said, squirming slightly?
It's intrusive. Kind of, "Here, we're going to pump you full of a quantity of this stuff we don't dare inject into your blood directly and let you absorb it over time." Maybe at some point someone'll come up with a pill or lozenge (or enormous needle) and getting dosed will get a lot less alarming.
I'm kind of hoping somewhere in here someone will tell me I'm clear either to jump out or just go home. The kinds of stuff I associate with Caldari architecture isn't improving a lot right now. (Yes, I know Upwell isn't Caldari, but their architectural design choices might as well be. It's got that "I packed so much tech into this place that I can't be bothered to make your room remotely comfortable; be grateful we didn't give you a coffin-hole to sleep in" aesthetic, verging on ethic, going on.) |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9504
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 22:12:53 -
[439] - Quote
You know, dealing with Arrendis's constant needling is about as productive as trying to argue with Diana Kim.
I advise not worrying about it.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
30
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 22:15:29 -
[440] - Quote
Meds are being tested, quarantined people are not being torched, conspiracy is being investigated, people are happy to be alive, factions cooperated and a crisis was averted.
Can we be happy for this and focus on productive actions from now on? |
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1547
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 22:22:13 -
[441] - Quote
Ignoring potential hazards and risks - especially ones with such massive potential for danger on large scales - is a tad foolhardy. Shouldn't be surprised people are looking for some answers to some very vital questions in this regard.
All of which could be solved with some actually decent bloody information being shared, with something even remotely close to consistency at that. Now we're treating infections with antidotes and we've already been through prions, viruses, bacteria at this point.
If this had been fiction, the plotholes would have had it boo'd off whatever venue or medium it came on. It's honestly weird to see how quickly people just blindly accept all the things that make no sense nor have even the slightest relationship with consistency. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9505
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 22:24:45 -
[442] - Quote
Science reporting is always terrible.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
30
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 22:32:28 -
[443] - Quote
Yes i agree that for such dire events, we should be getting a flood of reporting on a 24h basis from all media outlets. But we already know that ACN decided not to talk about the things happening, and The Scope is providing some information, but on broad strokes only.
I-¦m not disagreeing with you on that. I tried to present all the public data on the subject, but since i was not at the inquest, i can-¦t provide the finer details of backroom deals, fineprint on the resolutions and so on.
However, all in all we still have margin for optimism.
Simply scorching the earth and killing all the infected subjects makes room for that "one that escaped" and the cycle would start over with the weaponization of the kyonoke and very bad things happening in the near future, specially with the renewal of the major factions going for the throats of each other accusing everyone of "Not helping" and "Being responsible".
Sharing the intel is a good step, i just fail to understand how the hell such an important topic was dealth by the factions in a binary way, specially since the proposals weren-¦t mutually exclusive.
That intrigues me the most. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3292
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 22:41:02 -
[444] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:You know, dealing with Arrendis's constant needling is about as productive as trying to argue with Diana Kim.
I advise not worrying about it.
Well ... but she asks worthwhile questions that I kind of want to answer where I have information to. It's kind of fun as long as she's not trying to put me in a joint lock and pull my shoulder out of its metaphorical socket.
Makoto Priano wrote:Science reporting is always terrible.
Oh so very much this. Only, I'm not a scientist even if I'm a little keen on following scientific stuff, so I probably make some of the same mistakes. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3134
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 23:05:40 -
[445] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:Meds are being tested, quarantined people are not being torched, conspiracy is being investigated, people are happy to be alive, factions cooperated and a crisis was averted.
Can we be happy for this and focus on productive actions from now on?
No, see, that's it, they're not being tested. They're being rushed out to the quarantine zones. That's not a controlled environment. That's not rigorous testing with proper safety measures in place. And if you think it is, how often do you support testing new, experimental munitions in childrens' classrooms?
Honestly, what is wrong with you people that you think this slipshod, improvisational approach to the lives of the apparently trillions of people in one city and four space stations isn't complete nonsense? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3134
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 23:09:08 -
[446] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Science reporting is always terrible.
YOU'RE the one that called it a 'proper update'. If it's terrible, it's terrible. SAY SO. Don't hold up something terrible and say 'see? Isn't this a good, thorough report that gives you useful information?'
WHAT. THE. HEL? |
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
32
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 23:10:46 -
[447] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:
No, see, that's it, they're not being tested. They're being rushed out to the quarantine zones. That's not a controlled environment. That's not rigorous testing with proper safety measures in place. And if you think it is, how often do you support testing new, experimental munitions in childrens' classrooms?
Honestly, what is wrong with you people that you think this slipshod, improvisational approach to the lives of the apparently trillions of people in one city and four space stations isn't complete nonsense?
Between the outright elimination of all the people on the quarantine zones, and a rushed out "don-¦t know what will happen but they-¦re all secured in one location so if somehitng happen on the long term we-¦ll know", i go for option 2.
I-¦m not seeing as a cure, i-¦m seeing this as a controled experiment where we have all the elements to analyze on the long run the results.
And this means keeping the people in quarantine until we get the results from the tests.
Better than going Ammar trials on them. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3295
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 23:17:09 -
[448] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:No, see, that's it, they're not being tested. They're being rushed out to the quarantine zones. That's not a controlled environment. That's not rigorous testing with proper safety measures in place. And if you think it is, how often do you support testing new, experimental munitions in childrens' classrooms?
Honestly, what is wrong with you people that you think this slipshod, improvisational approach to the lives of the apparently trillions of people in one city and four space stations isn't complete nonsense?
Quarantine zones: relatively controlled environment.
Expected survival rate inside quarantine zones in absence of cure: zero.
Expected survival rate inside quarantine zones in presence of cure: probably not much, considering the time frame, but likely higher than zero. H4-RP4 got some surprising visitors midway through the Inquest: a couple miners who'd apparently survived on the plague-stricken mining platform and somehow crossed to the citadel.
Expected amount of information to be gathered thereby: lots.
Duration survivors can be detained under quarantine: indefinite (but I'm really hoping circumstances and data align in a way that lets me go home soon).
Probability of eventual nanoshield failure over Myrskaa, risking and perhaps guaranteeing infection of entire planet: high, approaching certainty given time and/or malicious actions by various parties.
(Also, the expected death toll of "trillions" was assuming further quarantine failures and additional spread, I think, probably-- the stuff's infamous for breaking containment, so, they might have been assuming it would eventually do exactly that.) |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3136
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 23:18:05 -
[449] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:
Between the outright elimination of all the people on the quarantine zones, and a rushed out "don-¦t know what will happen but they-¦re all secured in one location so if somehitng happen on the long term we-¦ll know", i go for option 2.
Really? You think they're going to be secured in their locations over the long term? I'm willing to bet the capsuleers in that Keepstar won't even be there a month.
Quote:
I-¦m not seeing as a cure, i-¦m seeing this as a controled experiment where we have all the elements to analyze on the long run the results.
And it's not a controlled experiment. No, you do not have 'all the elements to analyze on the long run'. Isolate every single environmental factor in a city. Go on. Do it. Adults. Children. Seniors. People at every single stage of hormonal development.
That's not a controlled environment. It's not even close.
Quote:
And this means keeping the people in quarantine until we get the results from the tests.
Again: You won't see the capsuleers in that Keepstar there for even a month. Most of them will jumpclone out via medbay, which means they'll be flash-copying over their neurology, which we know from statements made in here can be distorted and altered by the "antidote" as well as by the initial disease.
So, yeah, controlled conditions? This isn't even 'weapons control means hitting your target' levels of control here. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3136
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 23:20:34 -
[450] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Quarantine zones: relatively controlled environment.
[. . .]
H4-RP4 got some surprising visitors midway through the Inquest: a couple miners who'd apparently survived on the plague-stricken mining platform and somehow crossed to the citadel.
That's a 'relatively controlled environment'? People being able to get out means people being able to get in. That's not a controlled environment by any measure.
Quote:
(Also, the expected death toll of "trillions" was assuming further quarantine failures and additional spread, I think, probably-- the stuff's infamous for breaking containment, so, they might have been assuming it would eventually do exactly that.)
Not for nothing, but hasn't conjecture gotten you into enough trouble here? |
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Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1971
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 23:25:21 -
[451] - Quote
Leave it to the Minmatar to find something to complain about when things go better than expected.
That said, I believe it is within the realm of reason to assume the application of the cure will be done in a way that would prevent further outbreaks. The most important work to be done now is to find out how and why this weaponized strain was made and dispersed.
Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle
Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Lord Consort of House Sarum
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3295
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 23:30:30 -
[452] - Quote
So, uh, Arrendis?
We're talking about a pathogen that likes to crack containment and make first the whole lab, then the whole station, then ... well, basically everything connected by atmosphere or bulkheads into a hot lab.
How do you plan on keeping cure tests in a controlled environment, assuming that solid testing also involves playing with the pathogen to create infections? I'm genuinely curious how that would work.
Let us all die, then get a bunch of drones to run a lab among the corpses? I think that's kind of how the Caldari have been studying The Pit. Only, as noted, it's a massive, ultra-deadly security hazard, and if you're unwilling to use an untested cure that means the pathogen's still fully effective as a weapon. It's also going to be hard to run human tests in a tightly-controlled environment unless you're doing experiments that would make a Blood Raider cringe.
(Okay, maybe not literally. Most of those seem to have pretty strong stomachs.)
I'm pretty much sure none of us who were infected particularly minds being subjects in even a non-ideal human trial. 'Cause, you know, alternative: death. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3296
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 23:45:31 -
[453] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:
Quarantine zones: relatively controlled environment.
[. . .]
H4-RP4 got some surprising visitors midway through the Inquest: a couple miners who'd apparently survived on the plague-stricken mining platform and somehow crossed to the citadel.
That's a 'relatively controlled environment'? People being able to get out means people being able to get in. That's not a controlled environment by any measure. Quote:
Duration survivors can be detained under quarantine: indefinite (but I'm really hoping circumstances and data align in a way that lets me go home soon).
Unless they just mysteriously somehow manage to leave and go to a different space station in the system despite massive levels of surveillance all over the outside of both stations, right? Not exactly inspiring confidence in the 'indefinite quarantine' possibilities here.
They're neighbors. As in, not in a distant way; the mining platform's kind of right there. I can look out half the windows and see it, without any magnification needed. After H4 declared a lockdown, I kinda think the security cordon started treating the two as one single zone. Traveling from one to the other is basically a matter of getting out an airlock in a space suit and pushing off in the right direction, and even easier with a grappling rig and/or jet pack.
Actually, getting to H4-RP4 from the mining platform, it'd be hard to miss. The main trick would be finding a way inside before your air ran out.
Quote:Quote:(Also, the expected death toll of "trillions" was assuming further quarantine failures and additional spread, I think, probably-- the stuff's infamous for breaking containment, so, they might have been assuming it would eventually do exactly that.) Not for nothing, but hasn't conjecture gotten you into enough trouble here?
Conjecture's fun, though! And sometimes pretty useful.
It's just maybe a little important to remember that that's what you're doing, and (I guess, in my case) communicate it clearly. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3136
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 23:46:52 -
[454] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:
We're talking about a pathogen that likes to crack containment and make first the whole lab, then the whole station, then ... well, basically everything connected by atmosphere or bulkheads into a hot lab.
Yes, I know. That only makes it more important to keep appropriate controls on the testing labs for any treatment. The treatment's been effectively tested for two days. What if the protection lapses after six months? What if the Kyonoke virus isn't completely gone, just reduced to 'impossible to detect' levels, and in eighteen months, the protection's done and the virus comes surging back?
Literally, Aria, everything you have said about 'controlled environment', miners just showing up, having left the mining platform without anyone spotting them (and who's to say others didn't, too?)... none of this supports your case. All of this just screams 'this is not being subjected to proper safeguards' and 'it is more important than normal that this stuff is handled extremely carefully'.
I honestly do not know how anyone is reading this and thinking 'yeah, this stuff gets out and runs wild if you're even a little bit sloppy, so we don't need to subject any treatment to rigorous scrutiny and extremely secure environments'.
And no, it's not hard to run human testing in a tightly-controlled environment. Step 1: establish your tightly-controlled environement, including clean-room protocols for human habitation. Step 2: Introduce human test subjects to said environment. Step 3: Watch them carefully to make sure they don't do anything to breach the environment. Kind of exactly like you do with every other species of test subject. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3136
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 23:49:24 -
[455] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:
They're neighbors. As in, not in a distant way; the mining platform's kind of right there. I can look out half the windows and see it, without any magnification needed. After H4 declared a lockdown, I kinda think the security cordon started treating the two as one single zone. Traveling from one to the other is basically a matter of getting out an airlock in a space suit and pushing off in the right direction, and even easier with a grappling rig and/or jet pack.
Actually, getting to H4-RP4 from the mining platform, it'd be hard to miss. The main trick would be finding a way inside before your air ran out.
And yet, they did it. Again: you are not helping the case that rigorous safety and security procedures are being maintained. |
Ayallah
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
884
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 00:02:39 -
[456] - Quote
The crew of The Shrike was overjoyed when they heard a cure was developed.
But I suspect these next few days of quarantine while they wait for the cure to be distributed around New Eden will seem much slower.
As strength goes.
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3301
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 00:06:32 -
[457] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:
They're neighbors. As in, not in a distant way; the mining platform's kind of right there. I can look out half the windows and see it, without any magnification needed. After H4 declared a lockdown, I kinda think the security cordon started treating the two as one single zone. Traveling from one to the other is basically a matter of getting out an airlock in a space suit and pushing off in the right direction, and even easier with a grappling rig and/or jet pack.
Actually, getting to H4-RP4 from the mining platform, it'd be hard to miss. The main trick would be finding a way inside before your air ran out.
And yet, they did it. Again: you are not helping the case that rigorous safety and security procedures are being maintained.
I think I'm more making the case that full trials (especially since you seem to want 50 years) are themselves impractical and/or unethical in the context of an ongoing plague crisis.
"Rigorous safety and security procedures" are great when you've got time. It's not clear that we did, or do.
You do have a point about the possibility of resurgent plague, though.
Hm. |
James Syagrius
Reclamation
1655
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 00:11:38 -
[458] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Personally, I can't wait to see what surfaces when audits begin of FIO and Poteque records. And you were doing so well..
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3138
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 00:19:49 -
[459] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:
I think I'm more making the case that full trials (especially since you seem to want 50 years) are themselves impractical and/or unethical in the context of an ongoing plague crisis.
"Rigorous safety and security procedures" are great when you've got time. It's not clear that we did, or do.
You do have a point about the possibility of resurgent plague, though.
Hm.
That's the point. That's why long-term testing and observation is needed. And yes, if there is no other other choice for full-containment, those people were assumed dead the moment the quarantine zone went up. You cannot rush this. You cannot ever say 'we don't have time to do this right' because doing it wrong can make things worse. Does it guarantee things will go wrong? No, of course not. You might get lucky and everything's fine. I hope to every heaven humanity has ever believed in that we get lucky.
But if we get unlucky, then the very nature of what we're dealing with here means that a)the fallout will be worse, b)it will be harder to contain, c)there's going to be a huge lag-time just figuring out that 0410 is the problem because nobody know what the side-effects are, during which, the new crisis will be getting worse, and 0410 will be continuing to be spread and sold all over the cluster.
What is the acceptable risk profile for that? What are the 'acceptable' odds? What percent chance is 'ok' to risk people going on with their lives, resuming travel, and spending six months as carriers, infecting people with dormant Kyonoke wherever they go, only to have it all explode at once? Give me a number that you think is an ok chance to take in order to avoid six to eighteen months of rigorous testing. Not even talking about the multiple-decades of testing that a self-replicating nanovirus would reasonably require, because I'm really hoping this isn't that, but is rather something more conventional.
Eighteen months of research on test subjects before field testing. Give me the percent chance of trillions of deaths that you think is too low to warrant that level of caution. |
Oland Jan
Antumbra
14
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 00:37:45 -
[460] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Oland Jan wrote:Sorry but I don't follow, who exactly are you blaming? Essentially, that two groups were involved. One appears to be an extremist nationalist cell, possibly Dragonaur-related. The other is some sort of intelligence apparatus. Currently-available intel nods suggestively at possibly off-reservation FIO operatives trying to cover up an attempt to research the Kyonoke pathogen, but is by no means decisive. If my suppositions are accurate, both the State and Federation have some housecleaning to do. Thank you for the clarification.
Makoto Priano wrote:Personally, I can't wait to see what surfaces when audits begin of FIO and Poteque records.
TomHorn wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:Mr. Horn, believe me when I say this. We want whomever is responsible brought to justice, and subjected to the full recourse of the law. It's entirely possible my suspicions are inaccurate. But if they aren't inaccurate? Those grandstanding Federal senators are going to have a very prominent place on the stage during some phenomenal hearings. I believe you Priano-Hanni , lets hope whatever is in them FIO reports , brings down Roden and Blaque at last.. Ms. Priano, I respect your efforts, but some of your statements are troubling. So, you naturally assume it's the Federation is at fault yet the State is not? Whose audits within the State will you be eager to see? Perhaps your own organization? I regret to say that the earlier allegations of bias leveled by some, towards some seem to be proving out. |
|
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3301
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 00:50:19 -
[461] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Eighteen months of research on test subjects before field testing. Give me the percent chance of trillions of deaths that you think is too low to warrant that level of caution.
Arrendis, given the very high odds that someone like the EoM would decide to isolate some "basic" Kyonoke and then hit Jita 4-4, thereby guaranteeing exactly the kind of mass outbreak you're talking about with a lag time of just a few months?
I think I might even take 50/50. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3138
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 00:56:24 -
[462] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Arrendis wrote:Eighteen months of research on test subjects before field testing. Give me the percent chance of trillions of deaths that you think is too low to warrant that level of caution. Arrendis, given the very high odds that someone like the EoM would decide to isolate some "basic" Kyonoke and then hit Jita 4-4, thereby guaranteeing exactly the kind of mass outbreak you're talking about with a lag time of just a few months? I think I might even take 50/50.
Then why haven't they already done it?
And just to be clear here: you're ok with a 50% chance of something going wrong and trillions of people dying, when it could be prevented by taking eighteen months to make sure.
What. The. Hel?
Edit to add: All this time, and all this pushing, and you finally drop the 'Ms.' and just call me 'Arrendis'. Hot damn, I should've yelled at you for a weekend a long time ago. |
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
32
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 01:16:50 -
[463] - Quote
Arrendis, i can understand your concern for proper procedure, but the options on the table were.
1 - Kill everyone and burn everything
2 - Test a possible cure, see if it-¦s ok to clear the people after some time, burn everything. If needed, kill everyone.
Would you not give the people some time for a chance of survival? |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3301
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 01:19:00 -
[464] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:Arrendis wrote:Eighteen months of research on test subjects before field testing. Give me the percent chance of trillions of deaths that you think is too low to warrant that level of caution. Arrendis, given the very high odds that someone like the EoM would decide to isolate some "basic" Kyonoke and then hit Jita 4-4, thereby guaranteeing exactly the kind of mass outbreak you're talking about with a lag time of just a few months? I think I might even take 50/50. Then why haven't they already done it? And just to be clear here: you're ok with a 50% chance of something going wrong and trillions of people dying, when it could be prevented by taking eighteen months to make sure. What. The. Hel? Edit to add: All this time, and all this pushing, and you finally drop the 'Ms.' and just call me 'Arrendis'. Hot damn, I should've yelled at you for a weekend a long time ago.
... Have you actually been pushing? I tend to be a little formal by default, and either never knew or had forgotten that you preferred "Arrendis."
Probably should have guessed, though.
As for why they haven't already done it: (1) it requires acquiring the pathogen, which is still tricky even with multiple hot zones; (2) isolating the "basic" speck would take a little time, though probably just a few days (wait for the host to die, then wait a while longer for the "advanced" to also die, then go collect your samples and make your weapon); (3) there's no indication they haven't-- and there likely wouldn't be until people started getting sick several months later, at which point outbreaks would explode all over New Eden and it would be too late.
Which is the point.
Jita 4-4 supplies basically everybody to some extent. Spread the specks effectively, and you'd probably even get Anoikis that way. So, yes, I'm good with 50/50 odds of something awful happening to prevent a near certainty of someone being able to pull off that kind of high-grade extinction event horror show.
It's worth remembering: Koyonoke is catnip for anybody who'd happily kill everybody. |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2145
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 01:35:09 -
[465] - Quote
Look, it's perfectly acceptable to want to develop a cure. However, if you are going to develop *anything*, you better do it right. You will more frequently not do *anything* right if you are making it a *rush job*.
I don't know how the Caldari handles deadlines, but where I am from, we had long discovered that rushing a deadline never helps. It overwhelms the workers and the machines, causing them to make far more mistake. Seriously, if you can't make the deadline, just bloody say so, extend the deadline (make it reasonable) and continue working on it and make sure it's done right!
Even more so when we are dealing with things that will be administrated to the cluster. Mistakes in a Kyonoke vaccine will be disastrous especially so when it is going to be distributed to, what appeared to be, everyone in the cluster. The risk of killing someone who isn't even infected due to careless mistakes made by *rushing* the job is far too great.
No, you can't solve this problem by throwing more people at it.
Seriously. If 'the patient is gonna die if we do not transplant right now' is not an acceptable excuse for anaphylactic shock in an organ transplant patient due to the usage of contaminated stem cells or collagen scaffolding used for regrowing said organ, why are we accepting 'because a trillion people will die' as an excuse for rushing a vaccine that might end up killing twice that number due to insufficient rigorous safety tests and checks on reproducibility?
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
33
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 01:41:11 -
[466] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Even more so when we are dealing with things that will be administrated to the cluster.
Why are you presuming the procedures will be applied to the cluster? It concerns the ones on quarantine zones. The ones that were about to die anyway.
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3301
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 01:41:12 -
[467] - Quote
As one of the trillion, I might admittedly be a little biased.
(I don't have anything against my backup clone, but she definitely hasn't had the same weekend I did.) |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2145
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 01:45:07 -
[468] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:As one of the trillion, I might admittedly be a little biased.
(I don't have anything against my backup clone, but she definitely hasn't had the same weekend I did.)
You should probably strangle the idiot who can't even quarantine right. That one has no excuse!
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3301
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 01:50:30 -
[469] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:As one of the trillion, I might admittedly be a little biased.
(I don't have anything against my backup clone, but she definitely hasn't had the same weekend I did.) You should probably strangle the idiot who can't even quarantine right. That one has no excuse!
If I understand things right, he's got an excellent excuse: "that one" was, I believe, the Vulture. He introduced plague onto the station on purpose-- was the main source of it, even.
And, strangling would probably be pretty kind compared to whatever's presently happening to him. |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2146
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 01:54:16 -
[470] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:
Even more so when we are dealing with things that will be administrated to the cluster.
Why are you presuming the procedures will be applied to the cluster? It concerns the ones on quarantine zones. The ones that were about to die anyway.
And it will, eventually, end up being administrated to everyone else not in the quarantine zones because, get this, the Kyonoke Pit is still there and last I checked, there are still contaminated ships out there that haven't been accounted for.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
|
|
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
33
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 01:59:02 -
[471] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:
And it will, eventually, end up being administrated to everyone else not in the quarantine zones because, get this, the Kyonoke Pit is still there and last I checked, there are still contaminated ships out there that haven't been accounted for.
A scenario that would still be happening even if people torched the quarantine zones, but this time without a cure involved.
I-¦m really trying to understand the arguments, but i can-¦t help but wonder if some of what is written is just ill intent.
The "nuke from above" is still on the table. |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2146
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:05:14 -
[472] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:
And it will, eventually, end up being administrated to everyone else not in the quarantine zones because, get this, the Kyonoke Pit is still there and last I checked, there are still contaminated ships out there that haven't been accounted for.
A scenario that would still be happening even if people torched the quarantine zones, but this time without a cure involved. I-¦m really trying to understand the arguments, but i can-¦t help but wonder if some of what is written is just ill intent. The "nuke from above" is still on the table.
My suggestion isn't 'sterilisation', it's 'don't rush the vaccine!'.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
33
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:07:58 -
[473] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:
My suggestion isn't 'sterilisation', it's 'don't rush the vaccine!'.
Let-¦s start from there then.
You have millions of people trapped in quarantine zones with a killer pathogen. They are dying.
You have something that might make them stop dying.
What do you do with it? |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2146
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:10:59 -
[474] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:
My suggestion isn't 'sterilisation', it's 'don't rush the vaccine!'.
Let-¦s start from there then. You have millions of people trapped in quarantine zones with a killer pathogen. They are dying. You have something that might make them stop dying. What do you do with it?
Again, don't rush the vaccine. Develop it regardless, still run proper testing procedures, DO IT RIGHT! The possibility of a million deaths in quarantine is no excuse for accidentally causing another million deaths because your vaccine isn't properly tested before administration.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
33
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:15:04 -
[475] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Again, don't rush the vaccine. Develop it regardless, still run proper testing procedures, DO IT RIGHT! The possibility of a million deaths in quarantine is no excuse for accidentally causing another million deaths because your vaccine isn't properly tested before administration.
From what i understand then, just let them die while you develop a formally tested vaccine? |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2147
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:17:36 -
[476] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:
Again, don't rush the vaccine. Develop it regardless, still run proper testing procedures, DO IT RIGHT! The possibility of a million deaths in quarantine is no excuse for accidentally causing another million deaths because your vaccine isn't properly tested before administration.
From what i understand then, just let them die while you develop a formally tested vaccine?
Use them as part of the test then.
The moment they are stuck in quarantine they are already dead men walking. Use them to save the rest of the cluster. If any of them are saved after 18 months of testing, that's a bonus.
You have to think in terms of the greater picture, not just in terms of 'millions of quarantined patients'. Are you going to risk trillions just to save millions? To allow the administration of a poorly tested vaccine, declare the millions are saved, release them, and risk having them displaying symptoms all over again and infect everyone else?
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
33
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:22:01 -
[477] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Use them as part of the test then.
The moment they are stuck in quarantine they are already dead men walking. Use them to save the rest of the cluster. If any of them are saved after 18 months of testing, that's a bonus.
But that is exactly what is being done!
They are the test ground for a vaccine prototype, they are being monitored, they will be watched, the efficacy will be tested, they will be observed for a while and then when everything is properly analyzed, we-¦ll have a final version.
If somehting goes bad in the meantime, burn everything and keep researching. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3138
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:23:16 -
[478] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:Arrendis, i can understand your concern for proper procedure, but the options on the table were.
1 - Kill everyone and burn everything
2 - Test a possible cure, see if it-¦s ok to clear the people after some time, burn everything. If needed, kill everyone.
Would you not give the people some time for a chance of survival?
Let's be clear here: I don't care about procedure for the sake of procedure. I care about proper testing and safety measures because of why they exist.
Yes, I want to give those people every chance for surviving. I do not want to offer them false hope. False hope is cruelty. It inflicts more harm atop the original fear and worry. I also don't want to hold out hope to them that turns into not just disappointment, but harm to even more people.
You say one of the options is 'burn everything if needed', but we've just today gotten Aria saying that miners managed to get out of the Astral Mining station and making it into the Keepstar without being stopped, without any noticeable response or even indications that they were seen by the security forces in space around the two stations.
Why do I say that? Because there were capsuleers around those stations, and they haven't reported any indications of security movements, just in case those miners went running for the nearest stargate. So as far as we know, there is no indication that security was aware of them slipping the Astral Mining perimeter.
And that gives me absolutely no reason to believe that the quarantines are currently providing effective containment. You can't make lax safety protocols ok by adding another layer of poor safety measures.
So yes, I would love to give those people some time for a chance of survival... but not at the cost of endangering everyone else. I'd kinda like to give all those people the best possible chance for survival, too. |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2147
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:25:09 -
[479] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:
Use them as part of the test then.
The moment they are stuck in quarantine they are already dead men walking. Use them to save the rest of the cluster. If any of them are saved after 18 months of testing, that's a bonus.
But that is exactly what is being done! They are the test ground for a vaccine prototype, they are being monitored, they will be watched, the efficacy will be tested, they will be observed for a while and then when everything is properly analyzed, we-¦ll have a final version. If somehting goes bad in the meantime, burn everything and keep researching.
That is the proper way to handle vaccine development.
Though seriously, I will go further and say they should remain in quarantine for another three years or so to properly make sure they are not going to suddenly keel over. Until the end of that quarantine period, keep them fed via drone delivery of necessity supplies.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3301
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:25:46 -
[480] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:You have to think in terms of the greater picture, not just in terms of 'millions of quarantined patients'. Are you going to risk trillions just to save millions? To allow the administration of a poorly tested vaccine, declare the millions are saved, release them, and risk having them displaying symptoms all over again and infect everyone else?
I would, for the reasons given above.
Unchecked, Kyonoke is a massive gift to extinctionists like the Equilibrium of Mankind (the "equilibrium" they seek being the kind matter and antimatter attain-- annihilation). Spread the "basic" speck on Jita 4-4, and and even Anoikis would likely get hit.
Also, it's not properly a vaccine, I don't think. It's ... I'm not sure what, but Arrendis and I were both kind of speculating it was likely nanite-based (and she was yelling at me for speculating, but, eh). |
|
|
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2147
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:30:39 -
[481] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:You have to think in terms of the greater picture, not just in terms of 'millions of quarantined patients'. Are you going to risk trillions just to save millions? To allow the administration of a poorly tested vaccine, declare the millions are saved, release them, and risk having them displaying symptoms all over again and infect everyone else? I would, for the reasons given above. Unchecked, Kyonoke is a massive gift to extinctionists like the Equilibrium of Mankind (the "equilibrium" they seek being the kind matter and antimatter attain-- annihilation). Spread the "basic" speck on Jita 4-4, and and even Anoikis would likely get hit. Also, it's not properly a vaccine, I don't think. It's ... I'm not sure what, but Arrendis and I were both kind of speculating it was likely nanite-based (and she was yelling at me for speculating, but, eh).
So you are going for the short term solution instead of the long term one. To improperly test the vaccine or treatment or whatever just to save dead men walking, everyone else not in quarantine be damned, is that right? All because you are afraid of Kyonoke causing an extinction, which would happen regardless because *the vaccine isn't tested right*.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
33
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:32:16 -
[482] - Quote
Now that the factions can see a glimpse of hope on the horizon, i hope they vaccinate people, move them to a secure location (the keepstar if needed), burn everything on the previous locations (and the pit) and lock them at the secure location until everything is tested out.
The Caldari citizens would collaborate with this without a doubt, i just don-¦t know about the other factions.
But again, capsuleers are the kind of people that goes around exploring unknown space and steal implants from dead corpses and plug them in without much questioning. So it can go either way. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3138
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:34:20 -
[483] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:
Even more so when we are dealing with things that will be administrated to the cluster.
Why are you presuming the procedures will be applied to the cluster? It concerns the ones on quarantine zones. The ones that were about to die anyway.
Because you are absolutely insane if you don't think there will be massive widespread demand for a vaccine/cure/antidote (because nobody seems to be sure what the hel it actually is, so maybe it's really just some damned voodoo curse) for the single most terrifying plague humanity has ever seen, after three weeks of 'OH MY GOD IT'S KYONOKE RUN FOR YOUR LIIIIIIIVES' combined with breathless reporting from Alton Haveri about how AMAZING and WONDERFUL this stuff is and how somehow, after 2 days of observation of the test subjects, this stuff's already going into distribution.
"They could make enough for a whole city in 'hours' according the Scope, why haven't they made enough for Caldari Prime a week later?"
The demand for this stuff will be slightly higher than the demand for oxygen in much of the cluster. If it's not legal, it'll be out on the black market, all because it's being presented as perfectly safe. And no, nobody's actually saying 'it's perfectly safe', but do you see even a single 'this is still highly experimental' or 'we don't know for sure this is safe', or even 'talk to your doctor about a reaction lasting more than four hours' anywhere in the coverage? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3138
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:39:37 -
[484] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:
Use them as part of the test then.
The moment they are stuck in quarantine they are already dead men walking. Use them to save the rest of the cluster. If any of them are saved after 18 months of testing, that's a bonus.
But that is exactly what is being done! They are the test ground for a vaccine prototype, they are being monitored, they will be watched, the efficacy will be tested, they will be observed for a while and then when everything is properly analyzed, we-¦ll have a final version. If somehting goes bad in the meantime, burn everything and keep researching.
No, it's not. An entire city is not a controlled environment for testing. There are so many factors you cannot isolate to even quantify involved in a city's environment that it cannot serve as a primary testing ground. Nor do you want to test the treatment simultaneously on children and on adults in the same testing area.
As for being monitored... how? Proper testing would involve keeping specific individuals under consistent observation. I'm sorry, but you're not going to tell me that every man, woman, and child in there is wearing monitors to track heartbeat, metabolic rate, kidney function, brain activity... nope. Not happening. Especially not when nobody's been going in. And if you don't have that, you don't have the data you need.
That's not a testing ground. It's a cemetary. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3138
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:43:11 -
[485] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:and she was yelling at me for speculating, but, eh
Yes, I was, because when we're evaluating how sane the way they're proceeding is, 'I don't know what it is', clearly stated, is a lot better than 'I spoke to the nurse about xyzabc123. I think the treatment is...' which strongly implies actionable information.
"I don't know." If you don't know, that's the answer.
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3301
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:43:50 -
[486] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:So you are going for the short term solution instead of the long term one. To improperly test the vaccine or treatment or whatever just to save dead men walking, everyone else not in quarantine be damned, is that right? All because you are afraid of Kyonoke causing an extinction, which would happen regardless because *the vaccine isn't tested right*.
Well ... I'm one of those people, so, again, maybe my view is a little biased. I'm making periodic visits to medical to get my status checked. Still no sign of infection so far.
(Again: not properly a vaccine, I don't think.)
I expect research is ongoing.
You seem awfully confident that disaster not only might, but will follow if the cure isn't properly tested. Aside from resurgent plague, I'm having a little trouble seeing how the cure could be worse than the disease here. The disease, after all, is legendarily lethal and has a containment-breaching feature we still don't understand. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3138
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:45:02 -
[487] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:Now that the factions can see a glimpse of hope on the horizon, i hope they vaccinate people, move them to a secure location (the keepstar if needed), burn everything on the previous locations (and the pit) and lock them at the secure location until everything is tested out.
Evacuating an entire city without risking wider contamination just from air movement would take longer than the testing regimen everyone's objecting to. |
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
33
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:50:03 -
[488] - Quote
There was a huge pressure from all the 4 groups to take advantage from the situation, now that they-¦re going to start from the same point (the research data being shared), i-¦m counting on more "proper procedure time" since they don-¦t have to be at each others neck and escalate the stuff since it-¦s out in the open.
That includes: People going into the quarantine zones to do things. Like they already started
As for the "cure", i hope that Gallente and Minmatar legislators regulate the actions of Poteque and Eifyr, limiting the vaccines to the quarantine zones like announced.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3138
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:50:38 -
[489] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:
You seem awfully confident that disaster not only might, but will follow if the cure isn't properly tested. Aside from resurgent plague, I'm having a little trouble seeing how the cure could be worse than the disease here. The disease, after all, is legendarily lethal and has a containment-breaching feature we still don't understand.
It's more that there is no acceptable risk level for negligence-caused extinction. It doesn't matter how unlikely it might be that that will be the result, it's that sorry, no, that's not a chance that can be tolerated. Precisely because of the containment-breaching tendencies of the disease in question.
Ever heard of superbugs? Antibiotic-resistant pathogens that get created more or less by reckless exuberance in the use of anti-biotics?
Wanna make a Kyonoke superbug? Cuz I don't.
When you're playing with something that's already this deadly there is no room for error. |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2147
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:52:10 -
[490] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:So you are going for the short term solution instead of the long term one. To improperly test the vaccine or treatment or whatever just to save dead men walking, everyone else not in quarantine be damned, is that right? All because you are afraid of Kyonoke causing an extinction, which would happen regardless because *the vaccine isn't tested right*. Well ... I'm one of those people, so, again, maybe my view is a little biased. I'm making periodic visits to medical to get my status checked. Still no sign of infection so far. (Again: not properly a vaccine, I don't think.) I expect research is ongoing. You seem awfully confident that disaster not only might, but will follow if the cure isn't properly tested. Aside from resurgent plague, I'm having a little trouble seeing how the cure could be worse than the disease here. The disease, after all, is legendarily lethal and has a containment-breaching feature we still don't understand.
Because it *will* follow. You cannot say that everyone's going to get Kyonoke, but you can say that people will be taking the vaccine as prevention. If that vaccine is unsafe due to improper testing, you just end up killing more people than Kyonoke would had.
Again, if you recognise your bias, FIX IT instead of using it to justify everything you are going to say.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
|
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3301
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:57:47 -
[491] - Quote
I recognize the possibility of bias, Mr. Egivand. I concede that it might exist.
And if you talk me into killing myself unnecessarily I am going to haunt your beloved ship. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3138
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 02:58:45 -
[492] - Quote
No, they've already started preparing to go in there. And again: this is an entire city we're talking about. A team of half a dozen scientists going in and out through rigorous decontamination isn't even close to the same as sending in the equipment to monitor an entire city's vitals.
Personally, I'm kinda expecting to see the treatment procedures in that city cause riots, simply because nobody is going to want to be the guy who gets told 'Your kid who's showing Stage 2 symptoms has to wait four more days, there's six million people ahead of you on line'. Good luck getting that administered to everyone without a significant incident.
Quote:As for the "cure", i hope that Gallente and Minmatar legislators regulate the actions of Poteque and Eifyr, limiting the vaccines to the quarantine zones like announced.
Minmatar whats?
Chiefs. You mean the Chiefs. There's seven of them. That's how they get **** actually done. Yes, there's an advisory body that likes to act like a legislature, but nobody cares about, or pays attention to, them.
And... Eifyr's been pretty much linked to every single illegal and black-market booster and drug cocktail trade ring in the cluster at one point or another. Heck, it's in the official company profile! Good luck keeping them from profiting off of this on the black market.
Edit to add: Also, you should probably re-read the announcement you claim says the treatment's being limited to the quarantine zones. It says nothing about limiting it, only that it's already going to two of the quarantine zones, and they expect it will be rolled out to the others 'as soon as possible'. Nothing in there whatsoever about 'it's not going to be made available to all you panicked consumers screaming 'TAKE MY MONEY BUT SAVE MY BABY' out there.!' |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2147
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 03:14:10 -
[493] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:I recognize the possibility of bias, Mr. Egivand. I concede that it might exist.
And if you talk me into killing myself unnecessarily I am going to haunt your beloved ship.
I am telling you to not allow your fear of infection and the pathogen to cause you to advocate risking trillions of other people, including those not infected, to save your own hide.
Besides, shouldn't you be preparing a report for your backup clone just in case you snuff it? I lost a clone outside the pod once and I had to spend an entire month digging around all my logs and my staff's logs to figure out what had happened. Do yourself a favour and make it easy for your backup just in case. Better to do something you have control over than to fret over something you have no control over, such as whether or not you are infected.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3301
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 03:33:33 -
[494] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:I recognize the possibility of bias, Mr. Egivand. I concede that it might exist.
And if you talk me into killing myself unnecessarily I am going to haunt your beloved ship. I am telling you to not allow your fear of infection and the pathogen to cause you to advocate risking trillions of other people, including those not infected, to save your own hide. Besides, shouldn't you be preparing a report for your backup clone just in case you snuff it? I lost a clone outside the pod once and I had to spend an entire month digging around all my logs and my staff's logs to figure out what had happened. Do yourself a favour and make it easy for your backup just in case. Better to do something you have control over than to fret over something you have no control over, such as whether or not you are infected.
Mr. Egivand, I am, or was, almost certainly infected. I'd been in a contagion-ridden section of the station for days, spoke closely with the primary source of the infection twice, and attended briefings he was present at six times.
He had a nasty cough.
So I was probably in the incubation period when I got dosed with the hopefully-cure day before yesterday, and I've been preparing a log for my backup ever since I arrived here in expectation that there was a good chance I wouldn't survive.
Somewhere along the line my willingness to treat death as a casual thing kind of wore down, though. It's not like I haven't faced what I thought were non-survivable situations before, but ... this is different, somehow. I guess, before, at least I could fight back, even if it was hopeless.
This time....
I'm afraid. I'm really scared. And I don't know what to do about it. |
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
33
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 03:36:25 -
[495] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:
Minmatar whats?
Chiefs. You mean the Chiefs. There's seven of them. That's how they get **** actually done. Yes, there's an advisory body that likes to act like a legislature, but nobody cares about, or pays attention to, them.
Do the chiefs legislate? If so, they-¦re legislators. I can-¦t be more comprehensive than that.
Quote:
And... Eifyr's been pretty much linked to every single illegal and black-market booster and drug cocktail trade ring in the cluster at one point or another. Heck, it's in the official company profile! Good luck keeping them from profiting off of this on the black market.
Edit to add: Also, you should probably re-read the announcement you claim says the treatment's being limited to the quarantine zones. It says nothing about limiting it, only that it's already going to two of the quarantine zones, and they expect it will be rolled out to the others 'as soon as possible'. Nothing in there whatsoever about 'it's not going to be made available to all you panicked consumers screaming 'TAKE MY MONEY BUT SAVE MY BABY' out there.!'
There-¦s nothing saying that they-¦ll distribute it around the cluster. And if all goes right, Kyonoke dies at the quarantine zones and the pit, so no need to distribute a cure.
I think the majority of the population would know the difference between a vaccine and a cure. |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2148
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 03:40:15 -
[496] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:I recognize the possibility of bias, Mr. Egivand. I concede that it might exist.
And if you talk me into killing myself unnecessarily I am going to haunt your beloved ship. I am telling you to not allow your fear of infection and the pathogen to cause you to advocate risking trillions of other people, including those not infected, to save your own hide. Besides, shouldn't you be preparing a report for your backup clone just in case you snuff it? I lost a clone outside the pod once and I had to spend an entire month digging around all my logs and my staff's logs to figure out what had happened. Do yourself a favour and make it easy for your backup just in case. Better to do something you have control over than to fret over something you have no control over, such as whether or not you are infected. Mr. Egivand, I am, or was, almost certainly infected. I'd been in a contagion-ridden section of the station for days, spoke closely with the primary source of the infection twice, and attended briefings he was present at six times. He had a nasty cough. So I was probably in the incubation period when I got dosed with the hopefully-cure the day before yesterday, and I've been preparing a log for my backup ever since I arrived here in expectation that there was a good chance I wouldn't survive. Somewhere along the line my willingness to treat death as a casual thing kind of wore down, though. It's not like I haven't faced what I thought were non-survivable situations before, but ... this is different, somehow. I guess, before, at least I could fight back, even if it was hopeless. This time.... I'm afraid. I'm really scared. And I don't know what to do about it.
I do not treat death as a casual thing, I treat it as an inevitability. One day, I am going to lose this clone, outside the pod, despite every precaution and contingency. I can fight as much as I want, but I *will* lose the fight one day. Make peace with this fact and be prepared to face it when the time comes.
To fear is human. To respond with rather than against fear is animal.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3301
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 03:44:29 -
[497] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:I do not treat death as a casual thing, I treat it as an inevitability. One day, I am going to lose this clone, outside the pod, despite every precaution and contingency. I can fight as much as I want, but I *will* lose the fight one day. Make peace with this fact and be prepared to face it when the time comes.
To fear is human. To respond with rather than against fear is animal.
... I guess it would be a little unreasonable to expect you to understand why this is really insulting. |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2148
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 04:09:59 -
[498] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:
There-¦s nothing saying that they-¦ll distribute it around the cluster. And if all goes right, Kyonoke dies at the quarantine zones and the pit, so no need to distribute a cure.
I think the majority of the population would know the difference between a vaccine and a cure.
You forgot about the previous breaches into Kyonoke Pit and those vessels being unaccounted for. There are no guarantees that Kyonoke will not resurface.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
33
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 04:13:20 -
[499] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:
You forgot about the previous breaches into Kyonoke Pit and those vessels being unaccounted for. There are no guarantees that Kyonoke will not resurface.
If it does, then more quarantine zones, more test subjects, and by that time, a fully funcitional antidote. |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2148
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 05:26:10 -
[500] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:
You forgot about the previous breaches into Kyonoke Pit and those vessels being unaccounted for. There are no guarantees that Kyonoke will not resurface.
If it does, then more quarantine zones, more test subjects, and by that time, a fully funcitional antidote.
Better sort this mess this time than to wait for the bloody thing to show up again. Do you prefer to double the total death toll of the Kyonoke disease, because we do not already have a proper solution the next time it showed up, or fix the mess within the year so that we have the means to combat the disease properly the next time it turned up?
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9508
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 05:35:47 -
[501] - Quote
A brief statement for those deriding my statements on FIO as unsupportable bias, allow me to clarify.
We do lack definitive proof for how far the various conspiracies go. There are at least two in play.
One of these conspiracies includes elements of Kaalakiota and Home Guard, with implications of embezzlement and extremist ideology that suggest criminal negligence at the least by those in KK not directly involved, and quite possibly more. Those directly involved are, obviously, terrorists of the highest order.
The other conspiracy involves a non-State intelligence agency, right down to use of internal comms and signals intelligence. We do not, admittedly, know decisively which agency this is. However, there is a not-inconsequential amount of circumstantial evidence that directs attention to FIO. I could, of course, be quite mistaken. There are, however, very few options.
Please note that I expect trial and turmoil for both KK and FIO, and I strongly suspect in both cases the rot does not permeate the organizations. However, I expect that there will be at least some of that rot will need to be brought to light, and put to the torch.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Thomas en Gravonere
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 07:04:57 -
[502] - Quote
I would like to note that the most the State itself contributed to the solution would be failing to stop, or even wound anyone during a firefight, then one of their personnel - already infected - trying to run and violate quarantine, not to mention his colleague trying to cover up what he'd done.
I might also salt the wound by saying that a few Gallente were really helpful in the proceedings.
Word to the wise, anyway, if you are planning on screeching at the people who worked over those past few days - make sure you, or at the very least your nation, had something to contribute. I understand it's easy to criticize when a bunch of miners doesn't get in your face, trying desperately to ensure they don't get obliterated by an orbital strike.
Not to mention ongoing cases of sabotage and an atmosphere that... almost until the end felt like it's going to end in a stationwide baseliner riot.
As an Addendum - as I have already expressed previously, it was a pleasure to work with the Arataka Research Consortium. Your... odd degree of professionalism, backed up by hard work might have been a good chunk of what steered this situation away from total and utter disaster. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9508
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 07:08:10 -
[503] - Quote
Mr. Gravonere?
You do realize that one of the founding members of ARC is IKAME, right? Itsukame-Zainou? And that Phoenix Naval Systems, a State-loyal capsuleer corporation serving as an associate group and security contractor to ARC, was instrumental to our joint efforts?
(some minor edits to adjust to Mr. Gravonere's edits.)
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Skyweir Kinnison
The Scope
Gallente Federation
446
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 10:02:52 -
[504] - Quote
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:Leave it to the Minmatar to find something to complain about when things go better than expected.
That said, I believe it is within the realm of reason to assume the application of the cure will be done in a way that would prevent further outbreaks. The most important work to be done now is to find out how and why this weaponized strain was made and dispersed.
I would have thought the faithful of Amarr would be delighted.
Nothing demonstrates evidence for the existence of God better than a miracle cure for the worst disease ever known, handed down mysteriously from on high, and which is completely free of any side effects unlike any medical advance ever made by unaided humans.
Thought I guess it's tempered a tad by the Minmatar becoming the Chosen People for the Kyonoke Miracle.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
|
Jev North
Anshar Incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
756
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 10:17:24 -
[505] - Quote
I think God could get more mileage, appreciation-wise, out of simply smiting all of the incessant whiners and nitpickers on the IGS.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
|
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
785
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 11:54:26 -
[506] - Quote
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:I would have thought the faithful of Amarr would be delighted.
Nothing demonstrates evidence for the existence of God better than a miracle cure for the worst disease ever known, handed down mysteriously from on high, and which is completely free of any side effects unlike any medical advance ever made by unaided humans.
Thought I guess it's tempered a tad by the Minmatar becoming the Chosen People for the Kyonoke Miracle.
You have it reversed: Kyonoke itself was a gift from God sent by God to his Chosen people that we might weaponize it and turn it into an instrument for the genocidal extermination of the Minmatar people. I suspect that the mysterious "nationalists" were trying to do just this.
However, the Minmatar employed their dark sorcery to thwart the nationalist Kyonoke weaponizers and produce the cure that was a much science-defying as Kyonoke itself.
This entire drama has been an occult war since the beginning, and you people with your "science this" and "science that" are too blind to see it. |
Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1079
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 14:16:58 -
[507] - Quote
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:Aldrith Shutaq wrote:Leave it to the Minmatar to find something to complain about when things go better than expected.
That said, I believe it is within the realm of reason to assume the application of the cure will be done in a way that would prevent further outbreaks. The most important work to be done now is to find out how and why this weaponized strain was made and dispersed. I would have thought the faithful of Amarr would be delighted. Nothing demonstrates evidence for the existence of God better than a miracle cure for the worst disease ever known, handed down mysteriously from on high, and which is completely free of any side effects unlike any medical advance ever made by unaided humans. Thought I guess it's tempered a tad by the Minmatar becoming the Chosen People for the Kyonoke Miracle.
I guess I have a different view on this one Mr. Kinnison; rather it showed that two different forms of reasoning shaping the human experience, Faith and revealed truth and Science and objective truth, together worked hand in hand.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3148
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 14:21:33 -
[508] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:
There-¦s nothing saying that they-¦ll distribute it around the cluster. And if all goes right, Kyonoke dies at the quarantine zones and the pit, so no need to distribute a cure.
Yes, and we all know that people, in large groups, are totally rational actors and not at all subject to detrimental behavioral patterns like 'mob mentality' or 'mass hysteria' that actually get called things like that because they arise in group behavior, right? That never happens.
Unscrupulous marketers and corporations never seek to profit off of those behaviors, either, especially when the demand for their exclusive product will be something around 99,99999% of all of humanity.
That'd never happen. No no, we can totally trust that nobody's going to decide this is something that should be spread wider. None of those Senators, Chiefs, corporate executives, any of them, have any susceptibility to the kind of fear-laden poor decision-making that absolutely every human being falls prey to at some point in their lives. Especially not where the singular medical boogeyman of out time is concerned.
You're putting a whole lot of faith in a bunch of humans acting in a way humanity has never acted before. Individuals can be rational in a crisis. The larger the group, the less rational the group behavior.
Quote:
I think the majority of the population would know the difference between a vaccine and a cure.
How? They're not getting clear reporting about what this even is, and neither are we. Is this a vaccine? Is it a cure? Is it an 'antidote' as they're being told it is, despite that being categorically impossible because Kyonoke's not an ingested poson?
They're not being given accurate information. How can you expect them to make informed decisions? How can you expect them to 'know' things they're not being told? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3148
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 14:24:44 -
[509] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:
I'm afraid. I'm really scared. And I don't know what to do about it.
(To make matters worse, I don't even think I'm probably going to die unless it's by my own hand. The cure's ... strange. I don't really get the sense that it's going to fail in any ordinary way. It might fail in some extraordinary way, though.)
But let's not test it out more thoroughly before widespread introduction in the field.
You said it yourself, Aria: you're scared. You're scared in ways you normally aren't. Pretty good odds most of the people there are, too. Might I submit this isn't the best mental state to be in when making life-or-death decisions for trillions of people not currently in imminent danger? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3149
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 14:30:07 -
[510] - Quote
Jev North wrote:I think God could get more mileage, appreciation-wise, out of simply smiting all of the incessant whiners and nitpickers on the IGS.
Does that now include you, as you whine about 'whining'? How very meta. |
|
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3149
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 14:31:59 -
[511] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:You have it reversed: Kyonoke itself was a gift from God sent by God to his Chosen people that we might weaponize it and turn it into an instrument for the genocidal extermination of the Minmatar people. I suspect that the mysterious "nationalists" were trying to do just this. However, the Minmatar employed their dark sorcery to thwart the nationalist Kyonoke weaponizers and produce the cure that was as much science-defying as Kyonoke itself.
So you're saying Eifyr & Co. is more powerful than God? Good to know when I'm shopping for implants.
|
Sakura Nihil
Faded Light
400
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 14:59:20 -
[512] - Quote
I'm not sure what stimulant you're on Arrendis, but you should probably lay off of it before you stroke out on us.
Glory
|
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1561
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 15:03:59 -
[513] - Quote
Oh she doesn't need stims to keep this up. Trust me. Dangle internal inconsistencies and a few piles of stupid in front of her and she can go on for days. Add to this that a whole lot of people are sticking their fingers in their ears, rocking back and forth and going "No no no! This isn't stupid! This makes sense. Aahahahaaah yes total sense, completely. New Eden hasn't gone completely batfuck insane." while giggling hysterically to themselves and you get a few people somewhat... exasperated with the state of affairs.
As it were.
It is frankly rather disgusting to see otherwise reasonable people trying so very hard to pretend this wasn't the worst debacle New Eden has seen in quite a few years. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3149
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 15:07:27 -
[514] - Quote
Sakura Nihil wrote:I'm not sure what stimulant you're on Arrendis, but you should probably lay off of it before you stroke out on us.
As Aria tried to warn Ronin once: I am incredibly pedantic. This kind of worrying (in the gnawing, not the anxiety, sense) over a bone of contention? This is how I relax. There is literally no point at which this will not be fun for me.
Especially not when I'm right. Which I am. |
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
33
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 16:32:04 -
[515] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:
As Aria tried to warn Ronin once: I am incredibly pedantic. This kind of worrying (in the gnawing, not the anxiety, sense) over a bone of contention? This is how I relax. There is literally no point at which this will not be fun for me.
Especially not when I'm right. Which I am.
What would be your steps then? You have the quarantine people locked up, and something that is being called an antidote.
Next step? |
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
123
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 16:39:55 -
[516] - Quote
I do apologize for coming in a little late to this part of the conversation.
I would like to ask for an update on the quarantined populations of the effective area and what steps are being done to assist them since now we have a vaccine/antidote in place.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Akagi Initiative
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
7382
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 16:41:44 -
[517] - Quote
Casserina Leshrac wrote:I do apologize for coming in a little late to this part of the conversation.
I would like to ask for an update on the quarantined populations of the effective area and what steps are being done to assist them since now we have a vaccine/antidote in place.
I imagine the vast majority of them will need a memorial more than anything else.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3152
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 17:21:08 -
[518] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:What would be your steps then? You have the quarantine people locked up, and something that is being called an antidote.
Next step?
Step 2: Tell the damn truth.
In any crisis situation, which this still is, clear, accurate information is absolutely the most critical thing. Nobody can make informed, intelligent decisions without it. And we're not gettng it here.
Stop calling it something it clearly isn't. If it's a cure, or a treatment, call it that. If it's a vaccine, call it that. If it's a hybridized self-replicating nanovirus that functions as both, call it that. Do not go trying to dumb it down for the masses in a way that puts out false information, like the idea that it's an 'antidote'. That's about as accurate as calling it a 'starship'.
That dissemination of bad information doesn't just make it hard to understand what the treatment is. It also makes it impossible to trust any of the other information coming from the same sources. If I tell you five things, and one of those five things is literally impossible on the scale of 'that red dwarf is green', then you can't trust the rest of what I've claimed is true, either.
Step 3: Actually secure the quarantines.
We've been told, and had it confirmed by a member of my own alliance now, that miners got out of the Astral Mining platform, and made it to the Keepstar. We have absolutely no indication that they were, at any point, spotted by the security perimeter forces, and a decision was made to allow them to go to the keepstar because both sites were affected. We might like to think that, but we have no actual evidence to support it, which means we cannot assume that to be the case. This means that, so far as we can currently ascertain, the quarantine perimeter is not secured, and has not been over at least the last few days. Again, we can hope it is, but that's worthless in dealing with a crisis: you need actionable information, and you need to act based on what you know. So right now, we do not know the quarantine zones are secure. We do know that the quarantine zones need to be secure. So make sure they are is kind of a high priority here, before we start making them more permeable by letting aid workers go in and out.
Step 4: More controlled testing, under actually controlled conditions.
The quarantine zones are not controlled conditions. We do not have sufficient data about the environments or the people in them to consider them as such. We don't know how 0410 interacts, for example, with other diseases. Does it turn the common cold into a Kyonoke-level killer? No idea, but we'll put it into a population whose health we have no real, concrete data on, and whose conditions we are not, in fact, capable of adequately monitoring. This is reckless, and it is dangerous.
Nor do we know what the long-term effects of the treatment are on the uninfected. We're told there's a scanner now that works totally amazingly great at detecting Kyonoke. We have no data. We have no assurances that it doesn't register false positives, which would result in administration of the treatment to an uninfected individual, and we have no assurances that there is not a level of 'too little to detect' at play, like there is with literally every other pathogen ever known to man. The idea that this once we've got perfect detection capabilities and history's first known treatment without side effects is... I don't even know how anyone can take that seriously.
We also don't know about the long-term effects on the people who legitimately are saved by this treatment. Not a clue. We've got a whole keepstar set up for laboratory facilities and a bunch of people who've had the treatment administered, but why bother actually focusing on the controlled environment when we can start shipping this stuff out to where we have no idea what it will do or what condition those people are actually in? Eighteen months of testing is not a lot of time. Frankly, in medical testing terms, it's radically insufficient. Two to Five years is more normal, and that's for treatments for non-life-threatening pathogens, not a treatment for 'OH MY GOD THE DISEASE THAT WILL LITERALLY KILL EVERYONE IF WE DON'T ACT NOW NOW NOW'..
Then you get into a damned OODA loop: Observe, Orient, Decide, Act. This current strategy has basically leapt to Decide' and 'Act' without any damned 'Observe' going on. And that's pretty much a recipe for disaster. Which is why I started at Step 2, because...
Step 1: STOP LETTING THE TERRIFIED PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY INFECTED AND DESPERATE FOR A WAY OUT MAKE THE DECISIONS, DAMMIT.
Seriously. Aria's posts have consistently demonstrated exactly the levels of fear she's admitted to experiencing. I'm not singling her out here to pick on her, either. Two things I very much respect about Aria Jenneth are that she is a relentless and thorough observer of her own mental state, and that she is scrupulously, sometimes painfully honest about it.
Aria is not a timid little thing, prone to being terrified or over-reacting to danger. Aria goes hunting Drifters in ships that, if she's moving too slow or in too straight a line, will explode if a Drifter sneezes. Aria is someone whose competence and ability to work without being influenced by fear has earned my respect, and my trust.
Aria Jenneth is terrified, in her own understated way. This is not unusual. Disease does that. Disease, especially disease that impairs or alters the brain, is an insidous thing, an enemy you can't really fight, an enemy where even the experts can only make something to fight it for them, and hope it can do the job. And those people are also in there, exposed, and almost certainly terrified of dying.
They should not be the ones making the decisions right now. They are compromised. |
Tsao Aubbes
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
Heiian Conglomerate
79
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 18:02:04 -
[519] - Quote
Deep breaths, Miss Arrendis, deep breaths..
No Longer a Drone Region Resident
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3154
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 18:25:09 -
[520] - Quote
Tsao Aubbes wrote:Deep breaths, Miss Arrendis, deep breaths..
I've actually got my feet up on the edge of the hot tub right now.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9511
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 18:48:22 -
[521] - Quote
I'll be honest. When a pedant is badgering people for entertainment, it's probably best to ignore her.
This isn't to say Arrendis's concerns are unreasonable; they are reasonable enough, in abstract. It's just that she's intractible because the argument is her objective, not the resolution of it.
Anyway, whatever else transpires in this thread, we'll see what comes of the Inquest in coming days.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3304
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 18:50:53 -
[522] - Quote
We pretty much expended the last of our actual decision-making power when we voted not to obliterate your test subject collection, Arrendis.
The Inquest's over; our authority's gone. We're just a bunch of people under quarantine. Trapped. Someone else is calling the shots right now. I have no idea who. It's not like they're still briefing us.
By the way, the researcher who tested me told me that a negative test left open the chance (very likely, I think, considering I'd been exposed about a thousand times) that I was in the incubation period. I thought I said something about that? So, yeah, the scanner probably needs a minimum concentration of some kind. I'm just not sure what that would be, or whether it applies to specks not currently occupying a person. Maybe a single speck on a tabletop is detectable, but, that seems like a little too much to hope for. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3157
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 19:13:42 -
[523] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:I'll be honest. When a pedant is badgering people for entertainment, it's probably best to ignore her.
I didn't say I was doing it for entertainment. I said it was fun. You should always try to love what you do. If you don't love it, don't do it.
Quote:
This isn't to say Arrendis's concerns are unreasonable; they are reasonable enough, in abstract. It's just that she's intractible because the argument is her objective, not the resolution of it.
Nor is this in any way, shape, or form, true. You only think it is because you have never once actually sought resolution of an argument with me, only capitulation. I'm more than happy to come to consensus; ask Samira, Miz, or even Aldrith. We've certainly had issues that we resolved in the past. I am only truly intractable when compromise is unconscionable.
For example: I personally would prefer at least ten to thirty years of controlled testing for something this important, which will see this immediate and widespread a level of demand across the entire cluster. Elmund's suggested a shorter testing period that's still at least 90 time longer than what was used before this stuff got pumped out in massive amounts to ship off to the Quarantine zones. I'm willing to work with that. It's not optimal, but it's better than what you've wrought.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3157
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 19:18:22 -
[524] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:We pretty much expended the last of our actual decision-making power when we voted not to obliterate your test subject collection, Arrendis.
The Inquest's over; our authority's gone. We're just a bunch of people under quarantine. Trapped. Someone else is calling the shots right now. I have no idea who. It's not like they're still briefing us.
Willing to lay you odds none of the decisions being made are being made without heavy reliance on the advice of the corporate scientists stuck in the Keepstar with you, Aria. And they are the ones I referred to as 'compromised'. They should not be involved in the deicsion-making process. They should be a resource to provide data, not advice.
And the very fact that this stuff was rushed off only hours after the Inquest's formal conclusion speaks volumes for how deliberate and rational the current decision-making process is.
Quote:
By the way, the researcher who tested me told me that a negative test left open the chance (very likely, I think, considering I'd been exposed about a thousand times) that I was in the incubation period. I thought I said something about that? So, yeah, the scanner probably needs a minimum concentration of some kind. I'm just not sure what that would be, or whether it applies to specks not currently occupying a person. Maybe a single speck on a tabletop is detectable, but, that seems like a little too much to hope for.
So the scanner leaves open the possibility that someone's in the incubation period. Which makes it about as useful as 'are you exhibiting symptoms?'. Yep. Wondrous breakthrough there. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3304
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 19:26:20 -
[525] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:We pretty much expended the last of our actual decision-making power when we voted not to obliterate your test subject collection, Arrendis.
The Inquest's over; our authority's gone. We're just a bunch of people under quarantine. Trapped. Someone else is calling the shots right now. I have no idea who. It's not like they're still briefing us. Willing to lay you odds none of the decisions being made are being made without heavy reliance on the advice of the corporate scientists stuck in the Keepstar with you, Aria. And they are the ones I referred to as 'compromised'. They should not be involved in the deicsion-making process. They should be a resource to provide data, not advice. And the very fact that this stuff was rushed off only hours after the Inquest's formal conclusion speaks volumes for how deliberate and rational the current decision-making process is.
Point, maybe.
Quote:Quote:
By the way, the researcher who tested me told me that a negative test left open the chance (very likely, I think, considering I'd been exposed about a thousand times) that I was in the incubation period. I thought I said something about that? So, yeah, the scanner probably needs a minimum concentration of some kind. I'm just not sure what that would be, or whether it applies to specks not currently occupying a person. Maybe a single speck on a tabletop is detectable, but, that seems like a little too much to hope for.
So the scanner leaves open the possibility that someone's in the incubation period. Which makes it about as useful as 'are you exhibiting symptoms?'. Yep. Wondrous breakthrough there.
No-- it also lets you ask tables whether they're exhibiting symptoms. It's definitely able to pick up high levels of contamination in the environment. Question is whether it's able to pick up medium or low levels.
I don't get the sense there's a minimum concentration greater than "a speck" needed to cause the disease (at least in "basic" form), so, the scanner's usefulness is maybe a little limited until it can pick up just one-- unless, that is, the goal is to distinguish a Koyonoke outbreak from other stuff early on so you can snap a quarantine into place. That, it might be pretty useful for. |
Thomas en Gravonere
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 19:29:07 -
[526] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Mr. Gravonere?
You do realize that one of the founding members of ARC is IKAME, right? Itsukame-Zainou? And that Phoenix Naval Systems, a State-loyal capsuleer corporation serving as an associate group in and security contractor to ARC, was instrumental to our joint efforts?
(some minor edits to adjust to Mr. Gravonere's edits.)
More than aware of the fact.
I just chose to make a split between the state and the capsuleer in order to offend the state. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1561
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 19:33:46 -
[527] - Quote
Can confirm, she can come to a consensus with only slight behavioral adjustment through electric shock therapy. At this point I don't think it'll be necessary, as I largely find myself in agreement with her. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9512
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 20:02:04 -
[528] - Quote
Thomas en Gravonere wrote:
More than aware of the fact.
I just chose to make a split between the state and the capsuleer in order to offend the state.
Let me know if the CEP responds, mm?
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Thomas en Gravonere
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 21:18:32 -
[529] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Thomas en Gravonere wrote:
More than aware of the fact.
I just chose to make a split between the state and the capsuleer in order to offend the state.
Let me know if the CEP responds, mm?
Don't care much for a response, I'm afraid - and I think you know well where the insult was targeted.
Besides, as one Ms. Lagann put it - ARC is not solely a State organization. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Akagi Initiative
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
7383
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 21:32:42 -
[530] - Quote
Thomas en Gravonere wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:Mr. Gravonere?
You do realize that one of the founding members of ARC is IKAME, right? Itsukame-Zainou? And that Phoenix Naval Systems, a State-loyal capsuleer corporation serving as an associate group in and security contractor to ARC, was instrumental to our joint efforts?
(some minor edits to adjust to Mr. Gravonere's edits.) More than aware of the fact. I just chose to make a split between the state and the capsuleer in order to offend the state.
We'd have to care about your opinion to get offended, mate.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3161
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 21:35:53 -
[531] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:We'd have to care about your opinion to get offended, mate.
There are always those quick to leap at any chance to be offended, Pieter.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9513
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 21:43:00 -
[532] - Quote
Thomas en Gravonere wrote:
Don't care much for a response, I'm afraid - and I think you know well where the insult was targeted.
Besides, as one Ms. Lagann put it - ARC is not solely a State organization.
Mm. Thank you for educating me on what ARC is and is not.
Arrendis? You might need to do some more training. This one's not up to your high standards.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Akagi Initiative
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
7383
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 22:21:32 -
[533] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:We'd have to care about your opinion to get offended, mate. There are always those quick to leap at any chance to be offended, Pieter.
And many more who live to offend.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3161
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 22:51:59 -
[534] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:
Arrendis? You might need to do some more training. This one's not up to your high standards.
Training WIdot against badposting is like training DK against hating the Federation. I love 'em, just the same.
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Arrendis wrote:There are always those quick to leap at any chance to be offended, Pieter.
And many more who live to offend.
Oh, I think the numbers are about the same. The offended just don't speak up as much in public. |
Oland Jan
Antumbra
14
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 23:25:04 -
[535] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:A brief statement for those deriding my statements on FIO as unsupportable bias, allow me to clarify.
We do lack definitive proof... My intent was not to berate you, as I appreciate much of the work you have done. I also didnGÇÖt intend to imply that your allegations were unsupportable. Only that, and by your own addition, they are allegations.
|
Thomas en Gravonere
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 23:44:50 -
[536] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:
Mm. Thank you for educating me on what ARC is and is not.
Arrendis? You might need to do some more training. This one's not up to your high standards.
So what is the verdict then? Branching between empires, or supporting one?
AD: It appears that I got some clarification on the subject of differentiating between associates and the core organization. Apologies - it's been quite some time since I've dealt with more rigid structuring. |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2151
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 01:40:07 -
[537] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:
So the scanner leaves open the possibility that someone's in the incubation period. Which makes it about as useful as 'are you exhibiting symptoms?'. Yep. Wondrous breakthrough there.
However, we didn't use to be able to *any* concentration of Kyonoke prions. As in, at all. The only way to know whether anyone is infected is when someone starts to exhibit the shivers and rapidly deteriorate.
At least give them credit for actually managing to detect the prion before someone starts having seizures and show black spots all over themselves. It's a first step at least.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3161
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 01:51:54 -
[538] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:
However, we didn't use to be able to *any* concentration of Kyonoke prions. As in, at all. The only way to know whether anyone is infected is when someone starts to exhibit the shivers and rapidly deteriorate.
At least give them credit for actually managing to detect the prion before someone starts having seizures and show black spots all over themselves. It's a first step at least.
That's fair, sure. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3313
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 19:34:22 -
[539] - Quote
So, here's a thing:
Someone just showed me a data file-- it looks like there might be quarantine relief inbound, at least for us capsuleers. Specialized medical pods?
If I understood the design and proposed use right, we'd basically be sealed in full life-support mode for at least a week or so-- drip-fed nutrients, full catheterization, the whole bit. They'll put us in, then give the hull a light toasting with plasma on the way out to get rid of any contamination.
The thing's fitted with more than the usual set of medical scanners. Basically, they'd keep us in there in sensory deprivation under really intense monitoring, senses shunted off; we'd be able to use our ships, but, probably, getting podded would be discouraged, I'd guess.
And, they're equipped with the scanners designed to pick up specks.
I guess they figure if we can stand having scanners and a bunch of medical expert systems, presumably backed up by actual medical experts, all over us for days on end without developing a detectable knot of specks in the brain stem or excreting anything that raises an alarm, we're probably okay.
Not sure how that interacts with concerns about the cure, but, I guess if it's nanite-based they can probably filter it out or switch it off when they're sure we're clean.
... Interesting. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1565
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 19:37:56 -
[540] - Quote
So potentially carrying around sufficiently large samples of the speck so anyone with a SeBo and sufficient firepower can go harvest to their heart's desire? Magnificent quarantine measures. Absolutely magnificent.
Was New Eden always this stupid and I just didn't notice, or is this a new thing? |
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3313
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 19:39:32 -
[541] - Quote
Miz is disappointed; must be a day ending in "Y."
Other thoughts? |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1565
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 19:43:43 -
[542] - Quote
Yes, do keep deflecting reasonable concerns with knee-jerk snark. That makes it look less stupid, I'm sure.
Any thoughts on how to prevent any potential speck build-up in the clone from being harvested by corpse collectors or are we just assuming no one will be doing anything but station spinning for the foreseeable future? |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3313
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 20:00:04 -
[543] - Quote
Actually even one speck would be a problem, never mind buildup.
It looks like the proposal is to have each pod carrying three charges of suspended antimatter. They're ... not big, but big enough.
If they decide we're a problem or the pod gets breached ... well. They're linked to the same protocols as the medical burn scanner (which isn't here). Pod breach means a kind of bright flash and a small expanding cloud of exotic plasma instead of a clone jump.
And, backup clone activates. |
Persephone Alleile
Tartarus Covert Operations
376
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 20:01:21 -
[544] - Quote
Who's footing the bill for these specialized pods and the teams of medical experts that will be monitoring the readings around the clock? The Society?
What happens when a potentially infected capsuleer hits a bubble camp? |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1566
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 20:13:36 -
[545] - Quote
Much better. Needlessly risky (just have a quarantine, it's not exactly rocket surgery), untested, lacking good safeguards and unnecessary, but better than the initial offering.
Lacking quite a bit of information though. Who's 'they', what kind of oversight are we talking about, by who and so on and so forth? How quickly can the wetgraver hack and disable the antimatter charges and sell their corpse to the highest bidder? Etc. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3164
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 20:22:33 -
[546] - Quote
I dunno. ifGÇöand this is an ifGÇöwhat Aria's been shown is legitimately purpose-built pods for this situationGÇöand I can't imagine someone isn't looking to sell exactly that kind of design to CONCORD, if they haven't alreadyGÇöthen I'd have to imagine there's a catastrophic annihilation safeguard. I mean, what if the scanners detect speck buildup, despite the treatment?
If it was me coming up with this design (and I fully admit, it's not, so nobody has to worry about the pod cutting your hair and ripping your right arm off when you go to clean some rust), I'd be replacing the burn-scanner with a series of magnetic bottles containing roughly 200 kg of anitmatter, spread around the pod.
Of course... the resulting explosion from detonating the pod...
You know what? I think a 4-kilometer vaporization radius should be ok. Let's go with half a gram of anti-matter.
I mean, yeah, I'd go with 200kg of the stuff, but I like explosions. I've also been told I get a little excessive, sometimes. I think someone trying to get these things through safety inspection... they could probably get away with half a gram as a reasonable precaution against the detection of Kyonoke in the pod, or the unexpected breach of the pod.
Gotta admit, 'you'll blow up your whole goddamned hangar' is also a pretty good way to keep the egger in the pod for a week or two, too. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3314
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 20:28:19 -
[547] - Quote
Who's footing the bill: don't know.
Who's usually footing the bill for pods: ... also, don't know. Isn't that a little strange?
I'd guess it's whoever is usually providing the ISK to keep our warrior caste armed and active. |
DocHolliday ii
Horn and Brothers
Ndrangheta.
9
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 00:19:50 -
[548] - Quote
ANALYSIS OF KYONOKE ANTIDOTE FUELS CALLS FOR INVESTIGATION AFTER WIDESPREAD TREATMENT BEGINS
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/analysis-of-kyonoke-antidote-fuels-calls-for-investigation-after-widespread-treatment-begins/
breaking news |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1567
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:07:39 -
[549] - Quote
... still an antidote and apparently exposing Kyonoke to vacuum... kills it?
... really?
Also the "antidote" is apparently been rendered airborne. The "antidote" that has been previously described as uncomfortably invasive, and the platform is going to be de-orbited and disintegrated in the atmosphere. Again, after being exposed to vacuum, as this apparently kills Kyonoke now.
The aforementioned cure being a "structured bio-speck that acts as a counter for the Kyonoke speck, rendering it inert." concludes this delightful crap sandwich of a report that in one fell swoop contradicts roughly half a dozen previous ones if not more.
tl;dr: It's a speck, but apparently with genes, so it's more like a virus/bacterium/whatever and it now it's suddenly vulnerable to vacuum and the "cure" is an antidote that is also a "bio-speck" which by the way has been rendered airborne and mass produced. Still not tested in any satisfactory manner for that matter, and I doubt it'll be long before this gets pumped into other stations as well to quell any Kyonoke panic among the denizens.
No really, is it really just me? New Eden can't possibly have been this stupid all along.
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Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
681
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:14:38 -
[550] - Quote
If your statements were more constructive in nature we just might've listened to them.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
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Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2164
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:21:52 -
[551] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:... still an antidote and apparently exposing Kyonoke to vacuum... kills it?
... really?
Also the "antidote" is apparently been rendered airborne. The "antidote" that has been previously described as uncomfortably invasive, and the platform is going to be de-orbited and disintegrated in the atmosphere. Again, after being exposed to vacuum, as this apparently kills Kyonoke now.
The aforementioned cure being a "structured bio-speck that acts as a counter for the Kyonoke speck, rendering it inert." concludes this delightful crap sandwich of a report that in one fell swoop contradicts roughly half a dozen previous ones if not more.
tl;dr: It's a speck, but apparently with genes, so it's more like a virus/bacterium/whatever and it now it's suddenly vulnerable to vacuum and the "cure" is an antidote that is also a "bio-speck" which by the way has been rendered airborne and mass produced. Still not tested in any satisfactory manner for that matter, and I doubt it'll be long before this gets pumped into other stations as well to quell any Kyonoke panic among the denizens.
No really, is it really just me? New Eden can't possibly have been this stupid all along.
What if it's the 'journalist' who is stupid?
Much of the 'reporting' I am seeing thus far gave me the impression that the press had been rushing out the news without going through the editor and without doing many of the proper research to ensure accuracy.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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James Syagrius
Reclamation
1658
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:27:27 -
[552] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:... still an antidote and apparently exposing Kyonoke to vacuum... kills it? ... really?
Also the "antidote" is apparently been rendered airborne. The "antidote" that has been previously described as uncomfortably invasive, and the platform is going to be de-orbited and disintegrated in the atmosphere. Again, after being exposed to vacuum, as this apparently kills Kyonoke now.
The aforementioned cure being a "structured bio-speck that acts as a counter for the Kyonoke speck, rendering it inert." concludes this delightful crap sandwich of a report that in one fell swoop contradicts roughly half a dozen previous ones if not more.
tl;dr: It's a speck, but apparently with genes, so it's more like a virus/bacterium/whatever and it now it's suddenly vulnerable to vacuum and the "cure" is an antidote that is also a "bio-speck" which by the way has been rendered airborne and mass produced. Still not tested in any satisfactory manner for that matter, and I doubt it'll be long before this gets pumped into other stations as well to quell any Kyonoke panic among the denizens.
No really, is it really just me? New Eden can't possibly have been this stupid all along.
No it is not just you Madame. But who are we to question their 'absolute truth'.
Jaret Victorian wrote:If your statements were more constructive in nature we just might've listened to them. Of course, after all you are only relevant if you agree....
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3317
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:34:08 -
[553] - Quote
It sounds like people treated with Agent 0410 are being treated as unambiguously cured and safe to transport out of quarantine. Maybe those schematics are just someone's hopeful project rather than a real thing.
I should send out some queries.... |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1569
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:35:48 -
[554] - Quote
If anyone reading this board had even the slightest power to do anything about this, that would probably have mattered more. People who have made efforts to contribute to this situation have been outright blocked from doing so with no explanation for why or how, and there is quite literally nothing to be constructive about.
There is no path open towards being constructive when you're blocked from it, so all that remains is being a spectator, reacting to the information we're given. Even if you somehow could expect spectator commentary to be constructive, it's doubly impossible when the information we're given is wholly unreliable and demonstrably self-contradictory and unreliable.
Which bits can be considered to be true? Which bits are falsehoods, intentionally or not? There's blatant incompetence on display, but there's no way to tell for sure where. Is it the reporters completely butchering the information they are given? Is it their sources? If so, which of their sources and which parts?
If previous reports can't be trusted because these new ones contradict them, what's the veracity of these reports?
The only constructive thing I can do at this point, partly because the powers that be decided to block some people from contributing while others got access - through a selection process I have no information on either, but certainly wasn't determined on competency, interest or efforts made in regards to this crisis -, is sift through this wreck field of a media feed and point out the parts that don't make sense. The parts that contradict each other. The parts that may or may not be false or untrustworthy.
Our cluster, our people were and are at risk here and this right here? It's not exactly inspiring confidence in how this threat to them is being handled, and that's worth talking about.
I will never tie anyone down and force them to listen to me, be it you capsuleers or the baseliners reading these boards. That does not mean I can't or even shouldn't voice these concerns. Kyonoke is one thing, but these reports and these proceedings are frankly worse nightmare fuel. |
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
682
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:36:04 -
[555] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:Jaret Victorian wrote:If your statements were more constructive in nature we just might've listened to them. Of course, after all you are only relevant if you agree....
I didn't say that, but after reviewing the last 6 or so pages of this thread all I got was a headache. If you don't like how things are - organize, do something. Start with reviewing all available information, writing it on board, picking out things you consider out of place, start asking questions - constructively. Apply science. If you don't have the facilities - talk to relevant people, interview, record, publish. Spread the word, attract attention, drive it. Get people to follow you, lead them to your goal.
Anger will only give you so many patient responses, after that you will get nothing or anger in return.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
|
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1569
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:47:53 -
[556] - Quote
This is the board. The things that are out of place have been pointed out and questioned. 'Applying science' either requires data to work with or if you're simply talking about the method, reliable information. I personally funded and secured facilities for scientific pursuits, medical research and more for that matter, and enlisted both the science crews and capsuleers I employ and opened it up to anyone else seeking such facilities. Oh and I spread the word about that as well.
If this is insufficient, I wonder what exactly what you would consider sufficient to be able to speak on this subject? |
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
684
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:55:43 -
[557] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:This is the board. The things that are out of place have been pointed out and questioned. 'Applying science' either requires data to work with or if you're simply talking about the method, reliable information. I personally funded and secured facilities for scientific pursuits, medical research and more for that matter, and enlisted both the science crews and capsuleers I employ and opened it up to anyone else seeking such facilities. Oh and I spread the word about that as well.
If this is insufficient, I wonder what exactly what you would consider sufficient to be able to speak on this subject?
Can you point me to this post of yours where you did all the things above? If you can, I will read it consult with my friend biochemist, if she has time for me. Otherwise, I'm not beating the air like the last couple of pages, I'm out, because for all I know we just saved these millions. If not, well, that is why the so much popular "glass it" option is still on the table.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
|
Hetu Hegirin
Otherwhere Circle
117
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:57:07 -
[558] - Quote
I seem to recall the ravings of a man on a galnet social platform that the Drifters would cure the Kyonoke outbreak. Now that there is confirmation of Sisters involvement, it doesn't sound quite as lunatic. On the other hand...
In some respects this is almost in line with what I expected from he established powers, but with each successive press release, more questions are raised than answered, and the contradictions don't instill confidence in any impending resolutions. If I were more paranoid, I might think a deliberate 'muddying of the waters' is at play.
There is a good deal to digest in this, certainly not all of it substantive, but I hope more data is to come. Perhaps more structured discussions amongst dedicated parties would yield some truth.
-¦¦Ç+¦fߦÅߦìߦÅ-Çߦÿ-£ ߦäߦÅߦìߦìߦ¢ß¦Ç+ó
s¦èߦ¢ß¦£ß¦¢ß¦óߦç-Ç#3035 =ƒÄ¦
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Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2164
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 01:58:34 -
[559] - Quote
Jaret Victorian wrote:Mizhara Del'thul wrote:This is the board. The things that are out of place have been pointed out and questioned. 'Applying science' either requires data to work with or if you're simply talking about the method, reliable information. I personally funded and secured facilities for scientific pursuits, medical research and more for that matter, and enlisted both the science crews and capsuleers I employ and opened it up to anyone else seeking such facilities. Oh and I spread the word about that as well.
If this is insufficient, I wonder what exactly what you would consider sufficient to be able to speak on this subject? Can you point me to this post of yours where you did all the things above? If you can, I will read it consult with my friend biochemist, if she has time for me. Otherwise, I'm not beating the air like the last couple of pages, I'm out, because for all I know we just saved these millions. If not, well, that is why the so much popular "glass it" option is still on the table.
We just saved 'millions' via methods of dubious efficacy that may or may not actually be a time bomb of the figurative sense.
Of course we are going to question it vigorously.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1569
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 02:01:33 -
[560] - Quote
@ Jaret: Since it covers a range of subjects, you'll find some of it in the Muttokon Containment and Staging thread and the rest in the relevant threads and places. If you are after one single public repository I should probably point out that there is no such thing made by anyone as far as I've been made aware.
That is simply the nature of an organic board such as this and I do not have the necessary skills to create galnet portals with different structures. |
|
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Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
684
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 02:03:55 -
[561] - Quote
Sending me on a voyage trough your threads with vague "it exists" doesn't help with convincing me or other people.
1. I can't keep my eye on everything.
2. I have more important matters to attend. Like a full 12 hour sleep, for starters.
Here is a question though. Why do your eyes see? On a basic level, they just do. For more information you may need to talk to an oculist.
Why does an airborne vaccine work and why is it employed? It just does and because it is fast enough for basic level. For more information you need to talk to an acual virologist.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
|
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1569
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 02:11:37 -
[562] - Quote
Do you apply these standards and requirements to everyone else, yourself included then? Not that it matters if you believe me or not. You made a list of things to do, and it's verifiable that I've demonstrably done so. It'll have to do. |
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
684
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 02:15:21 -
[563] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Do you apply these standards and requirements to everyone else, yourself included then? Not that it matters if you believe me or not. You made a list of things to do, and it's verifiable that I've demonstrably done so. It'll have to do.
I would consider it professional to provide you at least two sources on points if I ever were to convince you of something.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3164
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 02:24:34 -
[564] - Quote
Jaret Victorian wrote:
Here is a question though. Why do your eyes see? On a basic level, they just do. For more information you may need to talk to an oculist.
On a basic level, that's not an answer, it's just a precondition for the question. For more information, you could consult anyone with a primary-school education to learn that light bounces off objects which absorb certain wavelengths, and the remaining wavelengths stimulate the rods and cones in your eyes, which trigger an electrochemical receptor in your retina, and your brain uses all of the aggregate stimulus to create an interpretation that you tell yourself you're 'seeing'.
Mother Matar, any ten-year-old in the Republic can tell you that. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3164
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 02:25:46 -
[565] - Quote
Jaret Victorian wrote:Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Do you apply these standards and requirements to everyone else, yourself included then? Not that it matters if you believe me or not. You made a list of things to do, and it's verifiable that I've demonstrably done so. It'll have to do. I would consider it professional to provide you at least two sources on points if I ever were to convince you of something.
Except, you know, if you want to convince her of what you'd do to convince her. Cuz you just didn't provide at least two sources demonstrating that pattern of behavior.
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3318
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 02:28:11 -
[566] - Quote
So-- just to note in passing: we do now (or Zainou Biotech does, and has, for many years) have the technology for the basic building block of an upload civilization. That is, we can upload a person to a computer, and have it still function as that person (practically if not legally).
I wonder how hard it really is to simulate a bunch of other human biology, comparatively. Even if it's about the same....
It seems like worries about unpredictability and so on might be a little out of date? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3165
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 02:50:10 -
[567] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:So-- just to note in passing: we do now (or Zainou Biotech does, and has, for many years) have the technology for the basic building block of an upload civilization. That is, we can upload a person to a computer, and have it still function as that person (practically if not legally).
I wonder how hard it really is to simulate a bunch of other human biology, comparatively. Even if it's about the same....
It seems like worries about unpredictability and so on might be a little out of date?
I dunno, to simulate the biology, you'd have to be able to simulate all of the environmental variables perfectly, including the pathogen... and if you already understand the pathogen perfectly, well, you've already got the cure, don't you? |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3318
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 03:01:56 -
[568] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:So-- just to note in passing: we do now (or Zainou Biotech does, and has, for many years) have the technology for the basic building block of an upload civilization. That is, we can upload a person to a computer, and have it still function as that person (practically if not legally).
I wonder how hard it really is to simulate a bunch of other human biology, comparatively. Even if it's about the same....
It seems like worries about unpredictability and so on might be a little out of date? I dunno, to simulate the biology, you'd have to be able to simulate all of the environmental variables perfectly, including the pathogen... and if you already understand the pathogen perfectly, well, you've already got the cure, don't you?
True. And there are some complexities involved that go fractal fast.
Still ... in terms of just how the cure functions in things like interacting with subjects over the course of generations, it seems like a few good simulations under different conditions would help a lot.
It seems like authorities, even in the State, are moving towards shifting people out of quarantine once treated. You might not trust authorities very much, Arrendis, but this much is definitely true: the Caldari higher-ups were more likely to order everybody vaporized if there was a doubt, and give a firm middle finger to the Inquest, than to risk their families by letting people walk free who shouldn't have been allowed to.
Apparently 0410 has a lot of official confidence. |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2165
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 03:35:10 -
[569] - Quote
The Caldari elites are beholden to shareholders who can be swayed by public opinion. Considering the fanfare surrounding 0410, did you think the Caldari elites will risk hurting the bottom line by advocating mass sterilisation and other extreme measures?
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3319
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 03:38:43 -
[570] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:The Caldari elites are beholden to shareholders who can be swayed by public opinion. Considering the fanfare surrounding 0410, did you think the Caldari elites will risk hurting the bottom line by advocating mass sterilisation and other extreme measures?
Yes.
They already did. Guess who sponsored the "glass everybody" option, alongside the Amarr, at the final Inquest vote? |
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Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2165
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 03:43:17 -
[571] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:The Caldari elites are beholden to shareholders who can be swayed by public opinion. Considering the fanfare surrounding 0410, did you think the Caldari elites will risk hurting the bottom line by advocating mass sterilisation and other extreme measures? Yes. They already did. Guess who sponsored the "glass everybody" option, alongside the Amarr, at the final Inquest vote?
And realise that they got swayed by the voters in the end when they realised that glass everybody is not a popular option.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
33
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 03:55:45 -
[572] - Quote
More news.
Apply antidote, remove survivors, burn/vacuum infected places. I-¦m ok with that.
Quote:Meanwhile, the Directive Enforcement Department has launched a full investigation into the origins of the Kyonoke Plague. The investigation comes after it was revealed that blood from now deceased Caldari nationalist fugitive Akira Kasaras was used by Poteque Pharmaceuticals, The Servant Sisters of EVE and Eifyr & Co to create an antidote. Speculation has been rife among geneticists and virologists since the revelation of a cure, which apparently consists of a structured bio-speck that acts as a counter for the Kyonoke speck, rendering it inert.
Many experts have commented that this method of rendering an outbreak inert is a common practice in the field of biological weapons deployment, indicating that the Kyonoke Plague could indeed be man made, rather than a naturally occurring disease as was previously thought.
Well well well. We have documents on a weaponization, 2 big pharma groups with a fast and effective antidote, and a dead caldari nationalist being a test tube.
The only ones needing some air time on this mess are the Ammar. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3319
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 03:59:30 -
[573] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:And realise that they got swayed by the voters in the end when they realised that glass everybody is not a popular option.
Otherwise they would have glassed infected sites within State sovereign territories regardless.
They kind of take a little pride in occasionally thumbing their nose at the popular option. The State's a lot of things, Mr. Egivand, and stockholders aren't meaningless.
It's pretty authoritarian in the end, though. And the opinions of foreigners, by and large, are less than nothing there.
That option would probably have been taken if we hadn't been able to get Agent 0410 assembled. It looks like research on it is proceeding fast; I definitely would have preferred to receive it by aerosol.
(I really wonder how it works. Then again, I also really wonder how Insorum works.) |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2165
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 04:07:29 -
[574] - Quote
These are one of those times where even State citizens share the same opinion as outsiders. I remember citizens are also counted as stakeholders in the State?
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3319
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 04:13:18 -
[575] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:These are one of those times where even State citizens share the same opinion as outsiders. I remember citizens are also counted as stakeholders in the State?
Often, yes. As a rule, minor ones.
Very minor ones.
Their real power comes from their numbers and ability to cause a total breakdown of the system if they revolt. They're usually reluctant to do so, though.
As I told Arrendis, trusting authority to lead wisely and well is something Caldari are trained from birth to do. It's a closed, strongly hierarchical (if meritocratic, in principle) society, and they literally fought an eight-decade war to keep it that way. |
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
34
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 04:16:20 -
[576] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:These are one of those times where even State citizens share the same opinion as outsiders. I remember citizens are also counted as stakeholders in the State?
We-¦re not cold blooded machines, of course we wanted to save as many as we could.
But if no antidote had been found, the pragmatic, efficient way would be to secure all locations.
With fire.
Lot-¦s of it.
We-¦re abandoning and destroying an entire city because it will be less expensive to build a new one rather than fixing the current. It-¦s more efficient this way.
So would be killing a few million infected/soon to be infected people in order to save trillions from being exposed to it.
Cmon, it-¦s not that hard to understand the necessity of this course of action IF we didn-¦t get the antidote in time. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3165
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 05:24:52 -
[577] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:
We-¦re abandoning and destroying an entire city because it will be less expensive to build a new one rather than fixing the current. It-¦s more efficient this way.
You're abandoning and destroying an entire city because short of exposure to hard vacuum, there's no known was to get rid of this stuff once it has saturated an area that wouldn't destroy the city. And since last I checked, the city's under an atmosphere, hydrogen detonations aren't exactly efficient. Hello, nuclear fallout!
Kinda wonder why they don't erect a bombardment shield around the city with the polarity reversed, and annihilate the place with a kilogram of antimatter. We all know the Caldari Navy's got that, and a gamma burst is over and done in an instant. Superheated plasma that used to be the air in the blast radius loaded up with radioactive isotopes from the neutron emissions of the fusion detonations (plural!) takes a lot longer to clean up. More expensive than 'ok, folks, it's all done', too. Gotta move equipment, monitor surrounding populations for radiation sickness, deal with wildlife and livestock with symptoms... and no, the shielding idea doesn't work there, because while both scenarios have that formerly-air superheated plasma, once it cools down, the antimatter version isn't radioactive. The nuclear one is.
Ah well. Maybe someone in the Caldari military will think of that one before they start setting of the nukes. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Akagi Initiative
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
7403
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 05:44:27 -
[578] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:The Caldari elites are beholden to shareholders who can be swayed by public opinion. Considering the fanfare surrounding 0410, did you think the Caldari elites will risk hurting the bottom line by advocating mass sterilisation and other extreme measures?
I'm a KK shareholder and if there were an easy way to utterly sterilize the hot zone without risking simply spreading it further, I would need to be WAY more convinced about this cure than I am currently to take that option off the table.
We should be compassionate, sure, but we should be compassionate globally.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
|
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2167
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 06:56:33 -
[579] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:These are one of those times where even State citizens share the same opinion as outsiders. I remember citizens are also counted as stakeholders in the State? Often, yes. As a rule, minor ones. Very minor ones. Their real power comes from their numbers and ability to cause a total breakdown of the system if they revolt. They're usually reluctant to do so, though. As I told Arrendis, trusting authority to lead wisely and well is something Caldari are trained from birth to do. It's a closed, strongly hierarchical (if meritocratic, in principle) society, and they literally fought an eight-decade war to keep it that way.
As you said, minor ones with great numbers. This makes their opinions actually worth considering especially when the number of citizens in favour of a dubious treatment has reached critical mass.
Also, no using 'because it's our way' as an excuse to keep acting and thinking the way you did, as soon as you identify the issue with it. Fix it!
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
morion
Lighting Build
205
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 07:23:07 -
[580] - Quote
so your all experts |
|
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Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2168
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 08:01:31 -
[581] - Quote
morion wrote:so your all experts
Your one-liner isn't cool. Bugger off.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3165
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 12:26:29 -
[582] - Quote
morion wrote:so your all experts
Nope. And I never claimed to be.
And I was able to poke holes in this. I can only imagine what the actual experts like Little Fish are thinking out there. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3320
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 13:00:47 -
[583] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:Also, no using 'because it's our way' as an excuse to keep acting and thinking the way you did, as soon as you identify the issue with it. Fix it!
That line, Mr. Egivand, is why the Federation and State are at war. From the State's point of view, the Federation is an aggressive, meddlesome entity trying to impose its view of how to "fix" "issues."
Any cultural cultural trait the Caldari have had since even before the Raata Empire is, by default, a feature, not a bug. You (or me, or any outsider) attempting to convince them otherwise will cause them to dig in their heels and fight back. Nothing causes the Caldari to close ranks like an outsider meddling in their affairs.
I'm an Achur, so, similar cultural traits (without the anti-intellectual streak). And I'm of two minds whether it's even actually a problem. If I were a baseliner, I'd probably be considered a dissident or "someone to watch" for that alone. |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2168
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 13:20:24 -
[584] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:Also, no using 'because it's our way' as an excuse to keep acting and thinking the way you did, as soon as you identify the issue with it. Fix it! That line, Mr. Egivand, is why the Federation and State are at war. From the State's point of view, the Federation is an aggressive, meddlesome entity trying to impose its view of how to "fix" "issues." Any cultural cultural trait the Caldari have had since even before the Raata Empire is, by default, a feature, not a bug. You (or me, or any outsider) attempting to convince them otherwise will cause them to dig in their heels and fight back. Nothing causes the Caldari to close ranks like an outsider meddling in their affairs. I'm an Achur, so, similar cultural traits (without the anti-intellectual streak). And I'm of two minds whether it's even actually a problem. If I were a baseliner, I'd probably be considered a dissident or "someone to watch" for that alone.
You can't change a government system, but you can change your thinking. If you find flaws in your own thinking, you fix that flaw, not encourage it and not leave it be.
It's like having a rash on your arm that has gone chronic. You do not let it be, you treat it.
It's the same thing as a ventilation fan that's been rattling for a very long time. You do not let it be, you replace its bearings and renew the lubricant.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3320
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 13:38:22 -
[585] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:Except, in this case, the attitude of not questioning the authority about the dubiousness of the treatment does not just affect you and your own, or just the State (because if that were the case I would have just let it be), it is affecting everyone else, including potentially me and mine. Of course, I'm going to question it.
You have a flaw in your thinking, it's your problem whether you want to fix it or not. However, if that flaw is affecting everything else, that also becomes my problem.
I'll ... just wish you luck, then.
(I promise you they don't collectively care whether it affects you or not.) |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3166
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 22:22:26 -
[586] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:
(I promise you they don't collectively care whether it affects you or not.)
I promise you, if Caldari intransigence and paranoia flares up badly enough to be everyone's problem, the CEP will care. Because the Empire is part of 'everyone', and the absolute last thing they want is the Empire finding any reason for common cause with the Federation against the State, even if it's only in the arena of political bickering.
You never know where being on the same side of empty bickering will lead, after all. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3357
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 00:22:16 -
[587] - Quote
It's not an absolute, Arrendis. Just a really strong tendency.
... really, really strong. |
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
35
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 00:58:16 -
[588] - Quote
A good way of alerting the authorities of any percieved error, would be contacting them directly. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1573
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 06:40:56 -
[589] - Quote
Which has already been done. By quite a few people, I suspect.
I also suspect it doesn't actually get read or cared about. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3168
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 14:09:21 -
[590] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:A good way of alerting the authorities of any percieved error, would be contacting them directly.
Thanks for assuming that wasn't done. |
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Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
35
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 14:20:14 -
[591] - Quote
I find the current situation rather amuzing actually.
Here we are, the elite of the elite, powerful in ways that manking barely understand, objects of fear and awe in equal measure, owners of a fortune bigger than the production of entire systems, with the firepower to conquer and vanquish entire regions....
And yet, like any ordinary individual, we are part of a system that is bigger than us. A tiny drop on a vast ocean, thinking that we alone are capable of starting a tsunami.
A drop, no matter how shiny, is only this. A part of the whole.
We come and we go throughout the time, emerging and fading in the illusion conscience, of segregation, of beign apart.
Your frustrations come from your expectations. Expectations that involve an illusion of control, of beign able to do something and attribute the consequences to your actions.
As the Sleeper, Tekmahl, Talocan, Yan jung, and many others that came before us, we-¦re bound to fade and reemerge as something new.
Release the thought of control, ride the tides of the universe in action, feel the flow and obstruction and know that we are what can not be.
The Tengu description is quite appropriate for this ocasion.
Quote:When we first saw the flock, we were surrounded, caught in a spectacle of stimuli. Brilliant colors, dancing lights, beautiful cacophonies, wafting ambrosia. Those birds surrounded us, each one a different shape, an altered species, a new wonder. I tried to follow a single bird, but my efforts were futile: Transformation is natural to their existence. Imagine it: an undulating mass, a changing mob, all those beasts partaking in wonderful transmogrification.
These were our augurs, our deliverers, our saviors. Standing amidst the flock, we should have feared their glory; instead, we drew hope. This moment is the first time I understood what it meant to be Caldari: Divinity in the flock, delivery in flux, one being, many changes.
- Janto Sitarbe, The Legendary Flock |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3168
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 15:32:05 -
[592] - Quote
Well, first, I'd like to refute one of your core assumptions:
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:Your frustrations come from your expectations. Expectations that involve an illusion of control, of beign able to do something and attribute the consequences to your actions.
My frustrations do not, in fact, come from any illusion of control. My frustrations do come from my expectations, though: my expectations of competence, of intelligence, and of responsibility on the part of those in power. Note: 'those in power' is an external group there. Because it's certainly not me. I have no control over any of the empires. I have no control over the SoCT. I have no control over any of this, and I haven't claimed, at any point, to think that I do.
So I'm not exactly sure where you're getting that whole 'an illusion of control' thing. I have, by design, control over a very small set of specific boxes. The survival of mankind and the safe development of medical technology ain't in those boxes. With regard to what is actually in those boxes, there is no illusion: I have control. My decisions are the ones that are final. With regard to literally everything else in the cluster, I do not have, nor do I claim, control.
And for the record, whether or not I blow up and die following any given undock? Not in my box.
On those matters, I may try to exert influence, I may attempt to effect the outcome in specific ways, but no, I do not have control. But from your other statement, I think it's pretty easy to see where you get your own misconceptions.
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:
Here we are, the elite of the elite, powerful in ways that manking barely understand, objects of fear and awe in equal measure, owners of a fortune bigger than the production of entire systems, with the firepower to conquer and vanquish entire regions....
And yet, like any ordinary individual, we are part of a system that is bigger than us. A tiny drop on a vast ocean, thinking that we alone are capable of starting a tsunami.
A drop, no matter how shiny, is only this. A part of the whole.
You think we're the 'elite of the elite', that we have power 'in ways that mankind barely understands'. That's nonsense. You know what power we have? We have the power to kill. And keel killing. And keep killing. And I promise you, if there's any power mankind understands, it's the power of violence. We are humanity's ID, seemingly empowered to do... what, exactly? Lash out with violence for all eternity? @whee. There's some exciting crap, right there.
Violence is viscerally exciting, sure... but once you get past the adrenaline... no. Continued, repeated, endless violence... it's pretty damned dull, to be honest. How many of us get to a point where even dying is boring?
That's not power. That's hell. That's a living death, where nothing really matters and nothing really has the power to stir you to a semblance of actually living anymore. That's not being elite, either, it's being... alone.
Honestly, what the hell makes you think we're the elites of anything? With the exception of a very few, we're cut off from normal society, under strict controls by CONCORD on our behavior and even on just what we get to see around us. We exert, for all our grandiose claims, no real power over the cluster, no influence. The empires use us for an undying bloodsport to entertain their elites and channel the rage of the masses. Beyond that... they don't want to hear from us. The Inquest capsuleers can pat themselves on the back for their voting all they like, but ultimately, those resolutions are only as binding as the empires want to let them be. If the State decides tomorrow 'nah, not doing that 'release all the information' thing' there is nothing you can do about it.
And yes, capsuleers were instrumental in securiting the cure, in making sure it wasn't stolen or destroyed by terrorists on the Keepstar.. But you know what?
That had nothing to do with being capsuleers.
Nothing. Nothing whatsoever. That could've been any groupf of baseliners and they'd have had the same chances of pulling it off. Anyone use your jacks to hunt down Akira? Flush out the Vulture while you were in the pod?
So elite. So powerful.
Stop projecting your own assumptions and conceits on the rest of us. |
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
35
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 16:14:57 -
[593] - Quote
Wanna grab a drink? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3169
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 22:49:02 -
[594] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:Wanna grab a drink?
That has a history of getting me tasered. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9542
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 22:57:20 -
[595] - Quote
Index posts updated with the 'calls for investigation' article and today's article on Efu.
Again, my congratulations and thanks to Phoenix Naval Systems. Ms. Edios, without you and your personnel, we would not have done nearly so well aboard H4-RP4.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3410
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 23:26:18 -
[596] - Quote
Interesting ... so 0410's a tailored counter. No wonder they were talking about it like an antidote. It like a key for switching a (horrifying) weapon off. |
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
35
|
Posted - 2017.04.15 01:30:11 -
[597] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:
That has a history of getting me tasered.
Even more interesting. Where do i pick you up? 
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Interesting ... so 0410's a tailored counter. No wonder they were talking about it like an antidote. It like a key for switching a (horrifying) weapon off.
A tailored counter that was an advanced research against a weaponized variant under the scrutiny of an unknown agency that didn-¦t had acess to the pit and manipulated Caldari extremists to get some.
My oh my, who could be involved in this?
Absolutely no idea.
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Doctor Valate
Delve Medical Services
100
|
Posted - 2017.04.15 07:20:01 -
[598] - Quote
I question the effectiveness of the sterilisation measures employed.
Blowing the infected areas out into the vacuum of space might have seemed like a good idea, and it might kill the active form of the Kyonoke agent, which can only survive a few hours without a host.
However, do remember that the Kyonoke agent is capable of persisting under extreme conditions for years, possibly even decades, in it's dormant form.
So, Genolution et. al. have blown the exposed areas out into space, with the potential to disturb via air currents, dormant Kyonoke agent particles, and surround the station with a cloud of them, allowing them to adhere to passing ships, or be intentionally collected by persons of nefarious intent.
And this seemed reasonable ?
I am somewhat doubtful that this will be the end of this particular outbreak.
Doctor Valerie Valate. Not to be confused with the other Valerie Valate.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3411
|
Posted - 2017.04.15 14:25:29 -
[599] - Quote
Doctor Valate wrote:I am somewhat doubtful that this will be the end of this particular outbreak.
Well-- at least we have the water to pour on any spot fires, now. Unless someone goes and re-engineers it to require a different key, anyway (an effort we might be able to detect because: containment breach, then spot fire).
So it probably really is a bioweapon. Really that's not very much of a surprise; it's a little too strange and a little too perfect at what it does to just be some random organism we tripped over. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3174
|
Posted - 2017.04.15 16:35:13 -
[600] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Well-- at least we have the water to pour on any spot fires, now. Unless someone goes and re-engineers it to require a different key, anyway (an effort we might be able to detect because: containment breach, then spot fire).
Which will be easier because... wait for it... all of the information about 0410 has to be released! Honestly, sometimes I love the irony of humanity.
And for the record, no, I'm not saying that transparency is a bad thing. I very much agree with that measure and think you guys were right to pass it. At the same time, I'm kind of throwing up my hands in a 'yep, we're still boned' kind of way. Sometimes, it seems like we can't win for losing.
You just gotta laugh, you know? |
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3413
|
Posted - 2017.04.15 16:37:53 -
[601] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:
Well-- at least we have the water to pour on any spot fires, now. Unless someone goes and re-engineers it to require a different key, anyway (an effort we might be able to detect because: containment breach, then spot fire).
Which will be easier because... wait for it... all of the information about 0410 has to be released! Honestly, sometimes I love the irony of humanity. And for the record, no, I'm not saying that transparency is a bad thing. I very much agree with that measure and think you guys were right to pass it. At the same time, I'm kind of throwing up my hands in a 'yep, we're still boned' kind of way. Sometimes, it seems like we can't win for losing. You just gotta laugh, you know?
True, and they'd be mad to work on modifying the thing without having the bucket of water right there. Of course, the whole purpose of the work would be to render the bucket of water ineffective.... |
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
35
|
Posted - 2017.04.15 17:25:59 -
[602] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:
True, and they'd be mad to work on modifying the thing without having the bucket of water right there. Of course, the whole purpose of the work would be to render the bucket of water ineffective....
Or watch the world burn and close the door behind them once and for all.
Much better option than "Look, i have a toy that hurts, i also have a kiss that heals, but now everyone knows how the toy hurts and how to kiss it better so i will make a slightly different toy and hope they don-¦t discover my new slightly different kiss".
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3413
|
Posted - 2017.04.15 22:38:03 -
[603] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:
True, and they'd be mad to work on modifying the thing without having the bucket of water right there. Of course, the whole purpose of the work would be to render the bucket of water ineffective....
Or watch the world burn and close the door behind them once and for all. Much better option than "Look, i have a toy that hurts, i also have a kiss that heals, but now everyone knows how the toy hurts and how to kiss it better so i will make a slightly different toy and hope they don-¦t discover my new slightly different kiss".
I ... don't think we're saying very different things, actually, although the number of entities who'd be looking to break the lock is probably smaller than the number that would be looking to make it fit their own key. |
TomHorn
Kresh Leaves
303
|
Posted - 2017.04.25 00:05:50 -
[604] - Quote
Update Myrskaa
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/state-peacekeepers-confirm-myrskaa-cleanup-status-as-megacorporations-bid-for-reconstruction-contract/
State peacekeepers confirm Myrskaa cleanup status as Megacorporations bid for reconstruction contract , with the value of salvage rights alone estimated close to a trillion interstellar kredits. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9601
|
Posted - 2017.04.26 07:09:01 -
[605] - Quote
Pilots, an ARCHIVES release on Akira Kasaras with the full audio of the sigint captures that we recovered. A Discourse will follow in the coming days.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
376
|
Posted - 2017.04.26 10:58:17 -
[606] - Quote
Thanks to Arataka for making the documents available to a broader audience! One question though: Is there a clearer evidence, maybe within other documents, that the person named "Odaka" is indeed "Odaka Pakera", i.e. a member of the Pakera family?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9607
|
Posted - 2017.04.26 15:18:18 -
[607] - Quote
There were some documents at the Inquest indicating that Odaka Pakera was the name of the pilot recovered at Myrskaa, but nothing beyond that.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9654
|
Posted - 2017.04.27 03:00:54 -
[608] - Quote
In addition to the Akira Kasaras ARCHIVES file, the index posts have been updated with the following:
Given that the news of late has been less time sensitive, but more of an administrative manner, I do hope pilots don't mind that I did a batch update.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9682
|
Posted - 2017.04.28 22:51:59 -
[609] - Quote
Index post updated with both:
The Discourse - Kyonoke Inquest YC119 LIVE Part 1
The Discourse - Intelligence Agency Implicated in Kyonoke Crisis
Apologies for the oversight in failing to post the Discourse, LIVE! episode earlier! Unfortunately, with so much happened aboard H4-RP4, our focus naturally began to narrow.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9701
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 01:19:38 -
[610] - Quote
There's a final count on Myrskaa, and confirmation that, indeed, the Pakera link is a Dragonaur one, as we suspected.
I'm not sure I agree with the Scope assessment that the RP4 outbreak should be attributed to Kasaras, at least not completely. What captures we have don't seem to indicate that she intended to carry out the attacks so much as stop them, and to deliver a sample to 'Vulture' or other entities.
We'll see what follows. I do hope that the Society and DED are heavily involved in the retrieval of assets from RP4.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Hetu Hegirin
Otherwhere Circle
130
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 04:43:55 -
[611] - Quote
Seems unreal that the space elevator on Muttokon is running again. Re-approaching normalcy seemed somewhat... absurd, just a few weeks ago. With this, perhaps spirits will be buoyed for the citizens around Tartatven. Survivors, there and in the other stricken zones, will need continued support in the coming months.
It seems I have plans, then, for Sunday... somewhere above Muttokon's south polar region.
-¦¦Ç+¦fߦÅߦìߦÅ-Çߦÿ-£ ߦäߦÅߦìߦìߦ¢ß¦Ç+ó
s¦èߦ¢ß¦£ß¦¢ß¦óߦç-Ç#3035 =ƒÄ¦
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9702
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 05:12:00 -
[612] - Quote
While this crisis had the potential to be cluster-changing, when you get down to it, a few tens of millions in New Eden is a rounding error.
Between the initial rapid detection of the Kyonoke outbreaks and quarantine, and the success of the Inquest, we were likely spared far more painful developments.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9787
|
Posted - 2017.05.15 20:37:31 -
[613] - Quote
Index posts updated both with Sukuuvesta's successful bid, and the FIO equipment seizure from RP4.
I do hope the DED is engaged actively in the analysis of equipment seized from RP4 as was implied in earlier news releases, as the implication of an intelligence agency's involvement in the RP4 outbreak warrants extra care to ensure no appearance of wrongdoing.
What's more, I'm quite curious about the arrests made so far; who they are, and what their ties are to the Pakeras, Kasarases, and what's been uncovered regarding the saboteurs aboard the H4-RP4 facility.
We'll see how this develops.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9828
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 20:01:11 -
[614] - Quote
Continued arrests among Astral Mining staff have been noted in Scope News tickers. I'll not bother including this in the index given that it's just ticker crawl, but it is fascinating.
Astral Mining staff? Arrested? By FIO? Is this implying that the Astral Mining staff was complicit in the Dragonaur plot? Or are they perhaps complicit in whatever intelligence agency was using Akira Kasaras as a mule for a Kyonoke sample? Or perhaps they simply know about that element of it, and are being detained for interrogation?
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2392
|
Posted - 2017.05.22 01:15:03 -
[615] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Continued arrests among Astral Mining staff have been noted in Scope News tickers. I'll not bother including this in the index given that it's just ticker crawl, but it is fascinating. Astral Mining staff? Arrested? By FIO? Is this implying that the Astral Mining staff was complicit in the Dragonaur plot? Or are they perhaps complicit in whatever intelligence agency was using Akira Kasaras as a mule for a Kyonoke sample? Or perhaps they simply know about that element of it, and are being detained for interrogation?
Or they got arrested for knowing too much. Wouldn't be the first time.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9920
|
Posted - 2017.06.17 21:59:07 -
[616] - Quote
Still no news, though we have news of news. There's evidently been a major break, but of course FIO has not yet released any details.
This seems an opportune time to remind pilots of the Akira Kasaras logs recovered during the Inquest.
We'll see what FIO and Astral Mining say.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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James Syagrius
Reclamation
1777
|
Posted - 2017.06.18 19:57:18 -
[617] - Quote
Undoubtedly the Federal Intelligence Organization has made its own inquiries and came to its own conclusions. Conclusions I would certainly trust over other overly biased assessments.
As with any suspicious aggression, potentially by a hostile power, they are being understandably deliberate and not provocative in their speculations of potential blame.... unlike some.
I look forward to their report.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9923
|
Posted - 2017.06.18 20:17:18 -
[618] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:overly biased assessments.
James Syagrius wrote:not provocative in their speculations of potential blame.... unlike some.
James Syagrius wrote:I have avoided until recently the idea of GÇÿtotal warGÇÖ,...
The nature of this threat, however, supersedes all such consideration.
Indeed. Unlike some.
While clearly the State has some cleaning house to do, I do find it exceedingly interesting that Poteque's treatment naming scheme coincides with the date of Ishukone's announcement of a bid to take Arcurio, and that the weaponization study section retrieved during the inquest specifically studies targeting AKTA. Poteque, what's more, is known to be in the employ of the Federal government on certain top secret projects, but we have no such indication for association with the Legion or the State.
Certainly, there are three parties who would be interested in studying Arcurio; the Legion, the State, or the Federation. It could yet turn out that, beyond the Dragonaur cell that should have been burned out long ago, the State's involvement is more pronounced.
But how quick you are to declare the Federation blameless when there are, shall we say, interesting coincidences that make such a declaration questionable.
We'll see what FIO finds. And then we'll see what happens when FIO's findings are audited.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
4189
|
Posted - 2017.06.18 23:20:35 -
[619] - Quote
[quote=Makoto Priano]
We'll see what FIO finds. And then we'll see what happens when FIO's findings are audited./quote]
If that actually happens, I'll be shocked. If it's done by anyone who can be credibly held as unbiased, doubly so.
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James Syagrius
Reclamation
1782
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Posted - 2017.06.19 22:49:42 -
[620] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:But how quick you are to declare the Federation blameless when there are, shall we say, interesting coincidences that make such a declaration questionable. You do seem fixated with 'blame'. I don't believe I did declare the Federation 'blameless', context being everything. But keep minimizing and obfuscating the inattentive will always believe a lie.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9926
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 23:40:32 -
[621] - Quote
You're reasonably capable at avoiding outright statements, I'll agree. Somehow, though, your statements without fail tar the State and gild the Federation, even as you try to paint yourself as somehow a noble, unbiased participant and a partisan, both.
But, yes, please continue dissembling and using accusations to shield yourself.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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James Syagrius
Reclamation
1782
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 01:11:48 -
[622] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:You're reasonably capable of avoiding outright statements, I'll agree. Somehow, though, your statements without fail tar the State and gild the Federation, even as you try to paint yourself as somehow a noble, unbiased participant and a partisan, both.
But, yes, please continue dissembling and using accusations to shield yourself. If you wait long enough....
I, suggest you, keep, too, propaganda my dear as your skills, in assessing the psyche of others, is.. lacking. Of course, I 'favor' the Federation, my loyalties are as blatantly obvious as your own.
I know you are used to the obsequious sort of Federal, clamoring for accommodation at any cost. I am not however of that ilk and know you for what you are. The agent of a hostile power, speaking just enough truth to hide the inevitable lie, using the whisper of 'peace' and 'truth' as a weapon.
I am indeed the occasional villain, unlike you, it would seem, at least I am an honest one.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
4201
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 01:32:19 -
[623] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:
I, suggest you, keep, too, propaganda my dear as your skills, in assessing the psyche of others, is.. lacking.
James! Dude! I love me some commas but what the feck, dude?
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
9927
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 03:12:05 -
[624] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:James Syagrius wrote:
I, suggest you, keep, too, propaganda my dear as your skills, in assessing the psyche of others, is.. lacking.
James! Dude! I love me some commas but what the feck, dude?
Seriously.
What even?
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
4008
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 03:22:17 -
[625] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Arrendis wrote:James Syagrius wrote:
I, suggest you, keep, too, propaganda my dear as your skills, in assessing the psyche of others, is.. lacking.
James! Dude! I love me some commas but what the feck, dude? Seriously. What even?
What we are witnessing is the early stages of a terrifying natural phenomenon. Commas naturally exert a pull on others. Normally a natural pressure keeps them apart (which is why the ellipsis is made of periods), but here that force has been overcome. As their density grows too great, they will begin to pull in other punctuation, and eventually even letters, words, paragraphs, whole posts and topics, and ultimately the very minds of those unfortunate enough to cast their eyes upon these marks will be drawn into their fathomless depths!
(Doctor, quickly! The patient's slipped into a comma!) |
James Syagrius
Reclamation
1783
|
Posted - 2017.06.21 04:01:50 -
[626] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:James Syagrius wrote:
I, suggest you, keep, too, propaganda my dear as your skills, in assessing the psyche of others, is.. lacking.
James! Dude! I love me some commas but what the feck, dude? Commaageddon perhaps, well yes, perhaps a bit too exuberant with them... But still, the point remains.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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