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Nerf huginn/rapiers.

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Ion Bartzabel Caldari Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.05.09 15:40:00 - [1] Why? They are the new "I win ships" because: you can fit mwd and have a decent speed at 1500-6000ms. can shield extender tank and have 9000 shield, pending fitting. it's not possible to hurt them with missiles, therefore caldari ships are useless against them. it's not possible to track them because of their speed. Possible solutions; limit the ship the ships ability to not use more than one webber. remove the ability to fit microwarpdrive. stack nerf nano/overdrives/intertias even more. I'm sure CCP does not agree that this ship is meant to be like the way the ship works today. Heck, i'll start training for them myself, there's so much benefits flying the ships, it's crazy :) Discuss.
Xeriuz Caldari The Puppet Masters.	Posted - 2007.05.09 15:44:00 - [2] stop crying and adapt ______________________________________________ X You Never Know What You Have Until You Lose It
icechip Caldari INDF Shipyards	Posted - 2007.05.09 15:46:00 - [3] Caldari also use rails/blaser missle are not our only weapon. [b]12 Million SP and still cant fly nothing--- [b]
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.05.09 15:47:00 - [4] Maybe you should fit some warpcore stabs and just fly away ... tbh the only way to fly that fast and still not be hit and maintain speed is not by having a huge shield tank.. you'll need a mwd dual webber and faction warp disruptor anyways, so not much slots left... Kill the scrambler and run if your missiles can't hit him..... and please don't tell me your tank can't sustain the dmg output of a huginn.. All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2007.05.09 15:51:00 - [5] Originally by: Xeriuz stop crying and adapt Stop trolling and shaddap. I agree that they are really, really good. I think their range bonus on the web is a bit too much. Reduce it, maybe to half of what it is or something, i did not run maths on it but a web is something really good against smaller ships like frigs and cruisers. Inties are really useless when those recons are around.
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.05.09 16:10:00 - [6] Originally by: Trevor Warps Inties are really useless when those recons are around. Well yeah... that's the whole point of the Huginn and Rapier. The only role they have is to counter fast moving ships.
kublai The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.09 16:24:00 - [7] Let's all be limited to 2 million SP and punishers, that will make eve fair and about skill and BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. NERFS KILL GAMES. Your signature is inappropiate for these forums, please email us: [email protected] for further information - Kreul Intentions
Khadur Minmatar Spontaneous Defenestration Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.05.09 16:34:00 - [8] Ever heard of arazu?? lol that's overpowered... ******* idiot
Ryan Scouse'UK	Posted - 2007.05.09 16:36:00 - [9] I luv the arazu plz dont nerf that to :(
Marquis Dean Energy.	Posted - 2007.05.09 16:40:00 - [10] How does a Huginn even tank beyond an LSE, it needs to fit TPs and webs and it's only got 6 midslots ffs. Scram, MWD, 2 x TP, 2 x Web. That leaves what for a shield extender tank? --- Originally by: korrey Marquis I have to admit, without you there wouldn't be much laughter in these forums.

Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.09 16:47:00 - [11] Originally by: Marquis Dean How does a Huginn even tank beyond an LSE, it needs to fit TPs and webs and it's only got 6 midslots ffs. Scram, MWD, 2 x TP, 2 x Web. That leaves what for a shield extender tank? No offence, but clearly never ever flown one. The only reason for a huggin/rapier to fit a TP (let alone 2) would be if he's in a gang with a rage torp raven or a phoenix. They work very well with Scram, MWD, 2 x LSE2, 2 x Web. Basically a slower vaga with less dps and slightly weaker tank and an UBER web. Just because a ship has a bonus for something does not mean it has to use it. Especialyl not if the item in question does not really help it.
William Alex Caldari Viscosity Dark Synergy	Posted - 2007.05.09 16:51:00 - [12] Quote: They are the new "I win ships" because: you can fit mwd and have a decent speed at 1500-6000ms. can shield extender tank and have 9000 shield, pending fitting. it's not possible to hurt them with missiles, therefore caldari ships are useless against them. it's not possible to track them because of their speed. I hope I didn't miss anything but ... we're talking about rapier/huggin right? So.. you really think that a recon ship that's setup with 9k shields and can move at 1500m/s is overpowered... Have you managed to fit anything other than shield extenders on that ship you're complaining about? I mean.. most people use .. i don't know.. webs? and .. who knows maybe damps? target painters.. cus it's a ... recon ship? I feel the OP is ranting about something that is kinda silly but hey, maybe its just me. Originally by: G.W. Part of the facts is understanding we have a problem, and part of the facts is what you're going to do about it.
Jeeee Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.09 16:51:00 - [13] They also have the damage of a wet fish
Valea Silpha Death Monkey's With Knives Gods of Night and Day	Posted - 2007.05.09 17:03:00 - [14] Edited by: Valea Silpha on 09/05/2007 17:04:09 Oh come on. The rapier does tiny amounts of damage. The huginn is REALLY hard to fit with dual extenders and anything other than 650mm artilleries, and that assumes you have assualt launchers instead of heavies. That isn't a damage set-up really is it ... They are reasonably nippy with an MWD, but fitting one slaps your fitting even more. Yes, they are hard to kill in frigates, but thats the same for pretty much anything. My rapier went down to a frigate gang a few days ago... At the end of the day, they are only WTFBBQ good if you are a good pilot in them, and get lucky. You pretty much HAVE to land 15-20km away from something to web it well without being also webbed, then you need top have a t2 or faction scrambler to hold them down while you chip away at them EVER SO SLOWLY. So you have 9k on shield. Big woop. You also have the tracking of a barn door, and missile will still hit you for osme nasty damage. Thye are great gang ships, for sure. But that can be said of ANYTHING. Don't ocmplain, work out how to fight them. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Marquis Dean Energy.	Posted - 2007.05.09 17:17:00 - [15] Originally by: Aramendel No offence, but clearly never ever flown one. The only reason for a huggin/rapier to fit a TP (let alone 2) would be if he's in a gang with a rage torp raven or a phoenix. They work very well with Scram, MWD, 2 x LSE2, 2 x Web. Basically a slower vaga with less dps and slightly weaker tank and an UBER web. Just because a ship has a bonus for something does not mean it has to use it. Especialyl not if the item in question does not really help it. No I haven't ever flown one, Matari ain't my pie personally, but if I did i'd endeavour to use all it's bonuses... My point still stands though. Two LSE is hardly a tank when it's going to take 15 minutes to kill anything. --- Originally by: korrey Marquis I have to admit, without you there wouldn't be much laughter in these forums.
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2007.05.09 17:32:00 - [16] Originally by: Xelios More constructive stuff than his first post Could be that the ship is fine. Its true his dmg aint all that impressive. And probly my suggestion does not need to be heard (I still think his web range is extreme) But at least I fixed this guy's attitude.
Conwen Nefantar Tribe	Posted - 2007.05.09 17:48:00 - [17] I think both the Huginn and the Rapier deserve a nerf because: 1) The can fit actual MODULES!! 2) They **** MOVE!!1 3) They get a bonus for target painter effectiveness, and we all know target painter is way imbalanced, cause there's just no way to counter it!!1! (btw, nerf it already, it's way overdue now) 4) They have HP all over them!! How come they don't die when I want them to die?! I personally tested 952347 times agains Huginns and Rapiers with several different setups, and I'm telling you all, Huginns are pure PAWNAGE they are! Nerf 'em already, cheers.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.09 18:18:00 - [18] Originally by: Conwen I think both the Huginn and the Rapier deserve a nerf because: 1) The can fit actual MODULES!! 2) They **** MOVE!!1 3) They get a bonus for target painter effectiveness, and we all know target painter is way imbalanced, cause there's just no way to counter it!!1! (btw, nerf it already, it's way overdue now) 4) They have HP all over them!! How come they don't die when I want them to die?! I personally tested 952347 times agains Huginns and Rapiers with several different setups, and I'm telling you all, Huginns are pure PAWNAGE they are! Nerf 'em already, cheers. A lot like the old nanowhines.
Mortuus Minmatar Oblivion's Gate	Posted - 2007.05.09 18:29:00 - [19] Ever seen how fast they die to a half decent BC? The only time its trouble is if there is an Arazu as well. But in that case, 2 good BC's get the job done. God I love the Hurricane. ex-Occassus Republica <3
KaptnSparrow Caldari TARDZ Gods of Night and Day	Posted - 2007.05.09 18:40:00 - [20] Originally by: Valea Silpha Edited by: Valea Silpha on 09/05/2007 17:04:09 Oh come on. The rapier does tiny amounts of damage. The huginn is REALLY hard to fit with dual extenders and anything other than 650mm artilleries, and that assumes you have assualt launchers instead of heavies. That isn't a damage set-up really is it ... They are reasonably nippy with an MWD, but fitting one slaps your fitting even more. Yes, they are hard to kill in frigates, but thats the same for pretty much anything. My rapier went down to a frigate gang a few days ago... At the end of the day, they are only WTFBBQ good if you are a good pilot in them, and get lucky. You pretty much HAVE to land 15-20km away from something to web it well without being also webbed, then you need top have a t2 or faction scrambler to hold them down while you chip away at them EVER SO SLOWLY. So you have 9k on shield. Big woop. You also have the tracking of a barn door, and missile will still hit you for osme nasty damage. Thye are great gang ships, for sure. But that can be said of ANYTHING. Don't ocmplain, work out how to fight them. amen and sorry about your loss, but you forgot to mention the 2 caracals :P I'm only afraid of the rapier in one thing: close range ships and ceptors. Why: - it toast ceptors/frigs - close range ships won't get in range and the rapiers mates show up and kill it about recons and overpowered? they do their job well but no need to nerf them. Think about it you buy a paperbag for 60 - 120M, slap a 40m cloak on it, some other simple modes = 200M total price tag +/- 50m depending on recon. you get for your 200M: - barley any damage - barley any tank - are forced to scout for gangs, because you got a cloak... - the love of your gang members - can kill people in belts, with the help or rats - possibility to disable other ship (arazu/pilgrim/falcon) the only excuse to this is basically the pilgrim/curse. Because it empties your cap so you can't fight back and you can't tank. But pilgrim is vulnerable to missile and drone boats. so it's all balanced somehow. Recons are deadly if you see them in groups, like 1 arazu, 1 falcon, 2 x vagas or so. I would actually suggest to boost the rapier, because compared to all other recons his target painting sucks and is not able to disable other ships, except ceptors/frigates. --- we are open for applications convo me --- gonads are open for new members!

Pete Stalker Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.09 18:42:00 - [21] Edited by: Pete Stalker on 09/05/2007 18:43:53 nerf them and i'll quit... seriously, nerf tier 2 BC or nos or w/e, huginn is fine. btw, most huginn pilots dont even know how to fit them not to mention how to use them... There is no buisness like Pete's buisness.
Acinonyx Jubatus International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.09 19:01:00 - [22] They seem to have their own role just like the other recons, not entirely overpowered and not entirely sucky either... I don't fly one but you can just look at them and see how useful they are. Pretty much the only anti-vaga ships there are, so you gotta give it that. It's not functional like the gallente or amarr's recons, but they all three do great in the role of anti-frigate ship. Seriously, Not gonna comment on the force ones as they're pretty much "watered down" versions of the combat ones. Curse - drains cap from afar, skews turrets, and has drones. This one can also be setup to be fast all the while using its weapons to full effect. It can be shield tanked if it wants to ignore Ewar beyond nos while fitting a speed setup in the lows as it too has 6 mids as the nos are highs. Lachesis - Can scramble you from afar while taking a dump on your lock range and speed. Wait, it has SEVEN mid slots!!! So it can fit even better of a shield tank than the curse/huginn, however it can't do so without ditching its usefulness. So take some slots off that tank and do something with its 3 lows of doom. Also can use its weapons to an effect, launchers and rails fit in perfectly. Huginn - Feared by vagas, and loved by those trying to stop anything fast. Best anti speed/frig ship there is. What's a frig when its signature radius is blown up and it's slowed down to practically nothing? Offensive power is... eh Rook - Screwed from the moment of purchase really... It's a rook, a T2 Blackbird, and everyone loves to shoot blackbirds early on. Can't fit a tank if it wants to use 3 of its bonuses, but has some room for offensive aid. So I don't really see anything bad about them, cept the rook is pretty much saying it wants to die. See, they all have their advantages, it's just the degree of their annoyance and if they're used by a skilled pilot in the right situation.
Riho Gallente Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.05.09 19:08:00 - [23] Originally by: Ion Bartzabel Why? They are the new "I win ships" because: you can fit mwd and have a decent speed at 1500-6000ms. can shield extender tank and have 9000 shield, pending fitting. it's not possible to hurt them with missiles, therefore caldari ships are useless against them. it's not possible to track them because of their speed. Possible solutions; limit the ship the ships ability to not use more than one webber. remove the ability to fit microwarpdrive. stack nerf nano/overdrives/intertias even more. I'm sure CCP does not agree that this ship is meant to be like the way the ship works today. Heck, i'll start training for them myself, there's so much benefits flying the ships, it's crazy :) Discuss. dunno about you but my rail astarte has no problems keeping them away :P --------------------------------------- Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it Great being Gallente... aint it ? ----------------- YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog -----------------
Dionisius Gallente Ordem dos Templarios Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.05.09 19:19:00 - [24] Originally by: Ion Bartzabel Why? They are the new "I win ships" because: you can fit mwd and have a decent speed at 1500-6000ms. can shield extender tank and have 9000 shield, pending fitting. it's not possible to hurt them with missiles, therefore caldari ships are useless against them. it's not possible to track them because of their speed. Possible solutions; limit the ship the ships ability to not use more than one webber. remove the ability to fit microwarpdrive. stack nerf nano/overdrives/intertias even more. I'm sure CCP does not agree that this ship is meant to be like the way the ship works today. Heck, i'll start training for them myself, there's so much benefits flying the ships, it's crazy :) Discuss. People like you that only know how to ask for nerfs are the kind of people that kill the fun in games. In EVE, - Diferent races have diferent strategies. - Diferent ships have diferent roles according to the race. - People, ADAPT! So instead of asking for a nerf why don't you ask for MEANS to TACKLE your PROBLEM!? Nerf this, nerf that... eeeesh! _______________________ What we have here is total lack of respect for the law...
Father Weebles North Face Force Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.09 19:32:00 - [25] Originally by: Ion Bartzabel you can fit mwd and have a decent speed at 1500-6000ms. 1500 m/s is slower than molasses. To get over 4k u need implants that over worth 500mil + Originally by: Ion Bartzabel can shield extender tank and have 9000 shield, pending fitting. 2x LSE II, 7557 shield hps. Shield HP skill at lvl3. Originally by: Ion Bartzabel it's not possible to hurt them with missiles, therefore caldari ships are useless against them. True, but you wont break a drake's tank using mwd 3 hmls, 4 t2 medium drones. And eventually you run out of cap. There's no way to kill a semi crappy fitted drake 1v1 unless the drake is a moron or has no EM hardener, even then youll run out of cap and have to warp. If you dont warp plan to get wtfowned. Originally by: Ion Bartzabel it's not possible to track them because of their speed. Not true. Orbit at 12km with AC's and try not to get hit with longer range ammo. 2 nights ago I was in a gang with 2 stabbers, vaga, huginn, sabre, stiletto. We engaged 3 drakes, 1 vulture. After 10 minutes of shooting 1 drake, we switched targets because we could not break its tank. We almost killed the newb of the group, but he was able to jump. Next we killed the vulture, which was easy because he was not tanked for em. One of the drakes deagressed and jumped out, leaving the last drake. Even with the whole gang we were not going to break its passive tank. Guess what we had to do? One of the pilots in our gang got in his vindicator to finally bring it down. Total kills- 1 drake, 1 vulture Losses- 1 Stabber Time it took- about an hour Minmatar rely on speed. Usually it's not a good idea to tank anything smaller than a battleship (some exceptions). "Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control." http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=465085
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2007.05.09 19:35:00 - [26] is this a joke? it has a target painting bonus.
Father Weebles North Face Force Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.09 19:36:00 - [27] Originally by: Marquis Dean How does a Huginn even tank beyond an LSE, it needs to fit TPs and webs and it's only got 6 midslots ffs. Scram, MWD, 2 x TP, 2 x Web. That leaves what for a shield extender tank? Target Painters on Huginn? /laugh 3 Dual 180mm IIs, 3 HML's 2x LSE II, 1 MWD II, 1 24k Scram, 2 Fleeting Webs 1 Overdrive II, 2x Nano II 2x Aux thruster rigs Speed-4717 m/s Shield HP-7557 "Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control." http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=465085
Damiv	Posted - 2007.05.09 19:37:00 - [28] Show me one that can come close to breaking my Drake passive tank and I'll worry about it. Till then, I'll just slowboat back to the gate thanks.
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.05.09 19:48:00 - [29] Originally by: Trevor Warps Originally by: Xelios More constructive stuff than his first post Could be that the ship is fine. Its true his dmg aint all that impressive. And probly my suggestion does not need to be heard (I still think his web range is extreme) But at least I fixed this guy's attitude. Sorry, just seems odd to me that someone would complain about a huginn being too dangerous to interceptors considering that's the only reason it exists...
Justice Bringer Minmatar Combined Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.09 20:01:00 - [30] Originally by: Trevor Warps Originally by: Xeriuz stop crying and adapt Stop trolling and shaddap. I agree that they are really, really good. I think their range bonus on the web is a bit too much. Reduce it, maybe to half of what it is or something, i did not run maths on it but a web is something really good against smaller ships like frigs and cruisers. Inties are really useless when those recons are around. So if you think they are really really good, why do you agree with the Subject Heading?? I was going to call the OP a Big Baby, but then I read your post. Train your skills dude, we all have to. Webs can be used on any ship and against any ship, and the way to stop a really fast ship is to use the same ship against it, now how difficult was that??? Now you stop telling people to shadupp and shadupp yourself



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