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Istoledat	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:23:00 - [1] 0.0 pvp seems like a game of waiting at gates (for hours). This to me is not really pvp it's just waiting for the other team to get bored and say F-it or they go away. If they do say f-it and come through a gate then it's a turkey shoot lag fest for a few min. Low sec pvp gate camps, this is about as close as this game comes real heart pounding pvp. I only hope that putting lvl 5 missions in low sec will make these areas more populated and thus perpetuating this style of play. Empire no pvp there unless you have war decs. WoW you can pvp non stop all day long with targets all over the place. NON STOP ALL DAY LONG. I have gotten over 800 kills in that game in one day. That's a lot of action. The big difference is that Eve has a harsh penalty and wow has no penalty. So in the end what do we learn? Harsh penalty = Less pvp. Let the flaming commence
MotoTsume Gallente Clan Black Scorpion	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:24:00 - [2] no flame, just a question why are you here, and not playing WoW? It's just a game........Or is it?????
nickycakes Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:25:00 - [3] i guess if spamming 1 or 2 buttons over and over for hours for 0 reward and no incentive to actually be good is your bag, then bye
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:25:00 - [4] Originally by: Istoledat 0.0 pvp seems like a game of waiting at gates (for hours). This to me is not really pvp it's just waiting for the other team to get bored and say F-it or they go away. If they do say f-it and come through a gate then it's a turkey shoot lag fest for a few min. Low sec pvp gate camps, this is about as close as this game comes real heart pounding pvp. I only hope that putting lvl 5 missions in low sec will make these areas more populated and thus perpetuating this style of play. Empire no pvp there unless you have war decs. WoW you can pvp non stop all day long with targets all over the place. NON STOP ALL DAY LONG. I have gotten over 800 kills in that game in one day. That's a lot of action. The big difference is that Eve has a harsh penalty and wow has no penalty. So in the end what do we learn? Harsh penalty = Less pvp. Let the flaming commence You're absolutely right. One question though. What did you feel when you ran into a group of hostiles in Alterac Valley? There's your answer. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
DiuxDium	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:25:00 - [5] Edited by: DiuxDium on 14/05/2007 20:24:30 /duel e; the poster 2-3 posts up has my vote. I can get NON STOP ACTION. By playing counter-strike, what's your point? Get this, different games have different goals! ------------- The above user should never be taken seriously.
Acli	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:26:00 - [6] pvp in wow is like killing rats in eve.
Istoledat	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:26:00 - [7] Originally by: nickycakes i guess if spamming 1 or 2 buttons over and over for hours for 0 reward and no incentive to actually be good is your bag, then bye as apposed to pushing Fkeys? huge difference eh?
Istoledat	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:27:00 - [8] Originally by: MotoTsume no flame, just a question why are you here, and not playing WoW? Don't get me wrong, I LIKE EVE A LOT! My point is that this macho you must loose all your stuff for pvp is actually hindering pvp.
The Pointless Gallente Lacks a Point Ltd	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:27:00 - [9] Originally by: Istoledat Originally by: nickycakes i guess if spamming 1 or 2 buttons over and over for hours for 0 reward and no incentive to actually be good is your bag, then bye as apposed to pushing Fkeys? huge difference eh? Uh... HeLlOoOoOoOoOo? EVE is totally different from WoW. Why compare them? ----------------------------------------------- "And I scream in a thousand voices!"
Kiviar Caldari Dirty Sanchez Ltd	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:29:00 - [10] Well he is right; wow does have a considerably larger amount of PVP. However, it isn't really possible to compare the two games, as they are completely different. A better comparison might be Shadowbane since it had city building and such. As for one or the other being a better pvp game, that really comes down to personal preference. Forums are what?
DiuxDium	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:29:00 - [11] Originally by: Istoledat Originally by: nickycakes i guess if spamming 1 or 2 buttons over and over for hours for 0 reward and no incentive to actually be good is your bag, then bye as apposed to pushing Fkeys? huge difference eh? itt someone who has never been in a fleet command position. Every single big fight in EVE has a weeks, or even months of preparations behind it. Counter-Strike is the game for you though it'd seem. p.s Counter-Strike rocks, as does Eve. ------------- The above user should never be taken seriously.
Afrodite Etnellag	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:32:00 - [12] Originally by: Istoledat Originally by: nickycakes i guess if spamming 1 or 2 buttons over and over for hours for 0 reward and no incentive to actually be good is your bag, then bye as apposed to pushing Fkeys? huge difference eh? You do not get the whole picture, there must be a reason to PVP, in eve you have plenty, political, isk gain, griefing(which results in isk gain) WoW, on the other hand miss a lot of those reasons to pvp, actually it has none so yeah the whole idea might look the same, but its not
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:33:00 - [13] Originally by: Istoledat Originally by: MotoTsume no flame, just a question why are you here, and not playing WoW? Don't get me wrong, I LIKE EVE A LOT! My point is that this macho you must loose all your stuff for pvp is actually hindering pvp. The first rule of EVE Club, never fly a ship you can't afford to lose. The second rule of EVE Club, NEVER FLY A SHIP YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE. This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Elles D Caldari The Aduro Protocol Ground Zeero	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Istoledat 0.0 pvp seems like a game of waiting at gates (for hours). This to me is not really pvp it's just waiting for the other team to get bored and say F-it or they go away. If they do say f-it and come through a gate then it's a turkey shoot lag fest for a few min. Low sec pvp gate camps, this is about as close as this game comes real heart pounding pvp. I only hope that putting lvl 5 missions in low sec will make these areas more populated and thus perpetuating this style of play. Empire no pvp there unless you have war decs. WoW you can pvp non stop all day long with targets all over the place. NON STOP ALL DAY LONG. I have gotten over 800 kills in that game in one day. That's a lot of action. The big difference is that Eve has a harsh penalty and wow has no penalty. So in the end what do we learn? Harsh penalty = Less pvp. Let the flaming commence No pvp in high-sec?! Try can-stealing m8....
David Ryan Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:36:00 - [15] ..go play WoW then? -------------------
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:38:00 - [16] wow = worse than testserver pvp, you lose nothing. Not even the time it takes to warp back to station, think about what went wrong, how you can counter it the next time, fit a better setup and undock again. After a while it just gets boring. Btw what do you think when a 40 billion ship goes down and what do you think when a lvl 70 omfg uberhax char dies? EvE is the first game that ever got my hands shaken and adrenaline rushing. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
smashsmash	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:38:00 - [17] i don't like pvp in either game. i don't like pvp for that matter. i'm use to the pvpers in eve making fun of my apathy, but i'm prepared to defend them to the death.
Lynal Gallente Peregrin Avionics	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:45:00 - [18] Originally by: Istoledat Originally by: MotoTsume no flame, just a question why are you here, and not playing WoW? Don't get me wrong, I LIKE EVE A LOT! My point is that this macho you must loose all your stuff for pvp is actually hindering pvp. but thats the difference... WoW pvp is meh... oh darn, i got ganked by some high lvl ally on my way to the FP, darn. just rez and move on... the worst they can do is corpse camp you and annoy you... pvp in WoW has no meaning. you don't lose anything (yet for some reason there seemed to be ALOT of people afraid to really get into a fight... like dying would be painful or something)... the rewards for WoW pvp are pitiful compared to the pve rewards... WoW pvp just doesn't have the adrenaline that comes with EvE pvp.
Kiviar Caldari Dirty Sanchez Ltd	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:52:00 - [19] Originally by: madaluap wow = worse than testserver pvp, Originally by: Lynal WoW pvp just doesn't have the adrenaline that comes with EvE pvp. Go to a wow forum and you will hear people go on and on about how boring and time consuming pvp in eve is. People have different ideas about what is fun. Forums are what?
Rakshassa	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:53:00 - [20] having played wow pvp and not eve pvp i cnt give a balanced opinion but from my impression of eve pvp is there isnt much objectivity to it. in WoW you pvp(ed) for honor and ranks and reputation and fun and the penalty for death was very low and some classes were incredably adaptive and required multiple techiques to win in pvp (See Druids.) hyrbid gear allowed such classes to be a jake of all trades master of none which in pvp was one of the best ways to be. ''gate camping'' did happen in the form of instance camping when you were going to raid. Now in Eve the pvp system does seem very odd, its very gank based it seems (all the gate camping) theres some mission ganking ive read about but again its very gank based. there seems to be very little objective in eve pvp appart from war decs and fighting over 0.0 space but this doesnt seem to be done much as the large allaicens can crush pretty much anyone who tries to take their space. the gank mentality comes down to the very harsh penalties for dieing in eve. loosing ur ship and possibly ur pod is expensive at least in terms to the wow death pentalties. battle grounds may not be a bad idea for eve, you need to que in stations, and you fight for story objectives, penalties for death are reduced in some way. for a pvp focused game eve does little to make pvp have objectives.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.14 21:00:00 - [21] There's another level of EVE PvP that involves player sovreignty. Its something to aspire to, but very very few people will ever see that level of major league action. For the vast majority of us, PvP here is really not too much different from PvP in WoW in terms of functionality. The looting of corpses and total loss of items is a slightly steeper slope for losing, but nothing insurmountable if you're intelligent and prepared. This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
PirateShampoo Minmatar UK Corp FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.14 21:13:00 - [22] Not at all, their are many sov owning, or renting corps that have to defend their space where you can get a taste of 0.0 and alliance based life, they have different requirements but if you have been with the game a few months your sure to find one that suits. See the recruitment channels, masses of posts from various 0.0 dwelling corporation.
Rakshassa	Posted - 2007.05.14 21:17:00 - [23] i would disagree with that, i was an officer of a moderate pve guild (BWL before BC when i quit) (background, i was feral(druid) and speced for pve feral tanking but anyway) casul pvp was so much more fun than it appears in eve, on TS with a couple of good mates drunk as anything working together and having a pretty ******* fun time in BGs after a raid OR solo perfecting the techiniques to beat various classes. where as the casul pvp in eve is just gank or be ganked it seems.
Teron D'Amun The Burning Orphans Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.05.14 21:29:00 - [24] Edited by: Teron D''Amun on 14/05/2007 21:32:12 Edited by: Teron D''Amun on 14/05/2007 21:30:37 Originally by: Rakshassa there seems to be very little objective in eve pvp appart from war decs and fighting over 0.0 space but this doesnt seem to be done much as the large allaicens can crush pretty much anyone who tries to take their space. what pvp objectives does wow have exactly? in the early days of the TM-SS zerg cluster** there might have been a little meaning to it, as it allowed your newb characters in that area to quest unmolested when people started to go more and more into BRM you had entrances to BRD/BRS/MC/BWL camped, but it didn't stop anyone from going to those instances, you died once maybe twice if your guild wasn't steamrolling them on their way in, but apart from that annoyance, there was no real PvP goal there to be achieved it doesn't matter at all if your faction wins or looses a battleground, nothing changed in the outside world, instead you queue up again to do the same thing over and over and over then they came up with the lolsand in Silithus and capture the towers in EPL - want to know the really funny part about them? They did jack and ** for pvp but instead were used by any raiding guild worth its salt to buff up (the %hitpoint buff you got when capturing a tower was completed) to make things a little easier in Naxxramas-Sapphiron/Kel'Thuzad especially BC had those 'world objectives' that hand out buffs, but yet again, those helped PvE not PvP (who do you think benefited more from the zone wide damage and experience gain buffs - PvPers or grinders/questers?)
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.05.14 21:32:00 - [25] If you want non-stop PvP in EVE you just have to declare war on the right alliance. I don't know what you're smoking but WoW senseless ganking for nothing does nothing for me, now hand over thine whacky tobaccy and begone infidel! Also Known As
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.14 21:35:00 - [26] Originally by: Teron D'Amun then they came up with the lolsand in Silithus Always wondered what became of that idea. When it was first suggested about collecting dust from worms in a desert, you couldn't go a day without someone saying "The spice must FLOW!". Did they do a blue eye glowie effect when you were buffed from it? This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Ogdru Jahad Amarr Ihatalo Internal Security Ihatalo Cartel	Posted - 2007.05.14 21:51:00 - [27] Originally by: Istoledat Originally by: MotoTsume no flame, just a question why are you here, and not playing WoW? Don't get me wrong, I LIKE EVE A LOT! My point is that this macho you must loose all your stuff for pvp is actually hindering pvp. Not everyone sits on a gate waiting for his lil ship to come along... someof us roam around in small groups looking for combat. sometimes we get what we desire. others we get more than we chewed off. at the end of the day Eve like any other game is what you make of it. - .
Kather Turbulent	Posted - 2007.05.14 21:53:00 - [28] thats like saying counterstrike has more pvp than eve avast, matey! Yarr old sig is too large, the maximum allowed filesize is 24,000 bytes. -Hango
Araxmas The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:06:00 - [29] cough Twinks I've said my bit and I will now take my absence. -------- Robbie Rotten left me
Khorian Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:11:00 - [30] Edited by: Khorian on 14/05/2007 22:10:42 When I played WoW I often got ganked while exping. The funny thing is, I ran back immediately to where I died to resume what I was doing and often got killed again and again and again. I did it on purpose, to show them how useless it was and that they where wasting their own time, not mine, and every time they got bored and left. I called it "pulling a ghandi" and it worked great. The thing is, WoW PvP is useless, meaningless. Its nothing, really. It's fun once in a while, but so is CS:S. --------------------- This is the signature
Shaemell Buttleson Darwin With Attitude RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:15:00 - [31] Originally by: Istoledat Originally by: MotoTsume no flame, just a question why are you here, and not playing WoW? Don't get me wrong, I LIKE EVE A LOT! My point is that this macho you must loose all your stuff for pvp is actually hindering pvp. Why? If anything I'd have thought it would encourage to get better at PVP so your losses are less. Your signature was inappropriate, email [email protected] to find out why (don't forget to include a link to it) -Sahwoolo
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:18:00 - [32] /pvp on ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:19:00 - [33] Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson Originally by: Istoledat Originally by: MotoTsume no flame, just a question why are you here, and not playing WoW? Don't get me wrong, I LIKE EVE A LOT! My point is that this macho you must loose all your stuff for pvp is actually hindering pvp. Why? If anything I'd have thought it would encourage to get better at PVP so your losses are less. yeah but newbs dont fight newbs they fight established pirates and nearly always lose ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Iron McFly CHAF tech	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:21:00 - [34] Real Life war involves Patience and Penalty. Time and the Cost of Life are part of RL Tactics. WoW is just the combat, near zero Patience or Penalty. Many WoW players think EVE missions are a boring grind, Agreed. But many EVE players think WoW PvP is a boring grind, No ? From deer hunting to a RL squad on patrol or raid, its Not just Mayhem. EVE is more real, therefore more PvP.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:28:00 - [35] EVE PvP has meaning, but I do agree that there are other games where PvP can be enjoyable as well. But on a completely different level. the adrenaline levels I get when engaged in PvP in EVE is so much better then any other PvP that it makes it not so bad that it doesn't all that often. And for 800 backstabs a day there's other games. ;-D
Oro Sarmasa Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:29:00 - [36] Originally by: nickycakes i guess if spamming 1 or 2 buttons over and over for hours for 0 reward and no incentive to actually be good is your bag, then bye Word.
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:38:00 - [37] Originally by: Istoledat I have gotten over 800 kills in that game in one day. Can I touch you? - Gob
lusifar	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:42:00 - [38] Originally by: Istoledat 0.0 pvp seems like a game of waiting at gates (for hours). This to me is not really pvp it's just waiting for the other team to get bored and say F-it or they go away. If they do say f-it and come through a gate then it's a turkey shoot lag fest for a few min. Low sec pvp gate camps, this is about as close as this game comes real heart pounding pvp. I only hope that putting lvl 5 missions in low sec will make these areas more populated and thus perpetuating this style of play. Empire no pvp there unless you have war decs. WoW you can pvp non stop all day long with targets all over the place. NON STOP ALL DAY LONG. I have gotten over 800 kills in that game in one day. That's a lot of action. The big difference is that Eve has a harsh penalty and wow has no penalty. So in the end what do we learn? Harsh penalty = Less pvp. Let the flaming commence i would SOOOOOOO much love a area type of place where there is no penalty for dying and free pvp... would love to hang out there.... sigh... well i havent done any pvp since emmm well its month since now.. there is simply to little action since people won't risk it and all there is to do is gatecamp or try for hours to find a target in low sec... put in some arena's where there is no penalty.. maybe a isk reward that you have to put in when you enter the area, like a 10% of the isk your ship have cost that other players get if they kill you.... damn this would be nice.. but don't bother any kind of suggetion of pvp chance will get multi flamed to the ground and the pvp will still be around 5% of this games gametime.... sigh... yer EVE-online a TRUE pvp game "but without the pvp"... there is more pvp found in supermario... seriusly.. they should get the massege...
Krugerrand 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:43:00 - [39] I love pvp in eve.. If people lost nothing then what would be the point? It would be a simple of matter of bringing out the best ship everytime, if you die, oh well, it costs nothing. With eve you have to think about what ship to use, how to fit it, knowing mistakes will cost you. Not to mention the tactical element, solo pvp in eve has severe limitations (tho is very much alive), but in gangs it excels. The fight I had yesterday which lasted 2 hours of non stop shooting was intense, no other game would have given me the same feeling. Want to enjoy eve pvp find a good corp/alliance and get stuck in, t1 frigs are a great place to start and easy to replace.
Krugerrand 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:44:00 - [40] Originally by: lusifar Originally by: Istoledat 0.0 pvp seems like a game of waiting at gates (for hours). This to me is not really pvp it's just waiting for the other team to get bored and say F-it or they go away. If they do say f-it and come through a gate then it's a turkey shoot lag fest for a few min. Low sec pvp gate camps, this is about as close as this game comes real heart pounding pvp. I only hope that putting lvl 5 missions in low sec will make these areas more populated and thus perpetuating this style of play. Empire no pvp there unless you have war decs. WoW you can pvp non stop all day long with targets all over the place. NON STOP ALL DAY LONG. I have gotten over 800 kills in that game in one day. That's a lot of action. The big difference is that Eve has a harsh penalty and wow has no penalty. So in the end what do we learn? Harsh penalty = Less pvp. Let the flaming commence i would SOOOOOOO much love a area type of place where there is no penalty for dying and free pvp... would love to hang out there.... sigh... well i havent done any pvp since emmm well its month since now.. there is simply to little action since people won't risk it and all there is to do is gatecamp or try for hours to find a target in low sec... put in some arena's where there is no penalty.. maybe a isk reward that you have to put in when you enter the area, like a 10% of the isk your ship have cost that other players get if they kill you.... damn this would be nice.. but don't bother any kind of suggetion of pvp chance will get multi flamed to the ground and the pvp will still be around 5% of this games gametime.... sigh... yer EVE-online a TRUE pvp game "but without the pvp"... there is more pvp found in supermario... seriusly.. they should get the massege... thats what the test server is there for.
CrestoftheStars Perkone	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:48:00 - [41] Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson Originally by: Istoledat Originally by: MotoTsume no flame, just a question why are you here, and not playing WoW? Don't get me wrong, I LIKE EVE A LOT! My point is that this macho you must loose all your stuff for pvp is actually hindering pvp. Why? If anything I'd have thought it would encourage to get better at PVP so your losses are less. you do have the brain capacity of putting two and two together right?! i mean if people lose there ships it will take a LONG time for the average player to get back out there in a new one, and why should they even TRY to go out there? you only get better at something by doing it, and if you have to lose your ship everytime you try... well about 90% of all players would aventually stop dying, and you know as well as i that some people rock at pvp others don't the people that rocks are maybe 1% of eve population, then there is properly around 9% that are really good and then there is the rest of average 80% and bad pvpers 10%... the bad pvpers will never get into pvp, but the average would join up if the penalty wasn't so hard, so that dying would in some way not take that much out of them, and they could feel that they had a chance to improve there pvp skills without sacrifycing everything (NO you DON'T get good at pvping in a bs by doing PVP in a FRIG... so no if you wanna be good with a bs that is what you will lose a ton of by trying to learn how.. soo .. yer think for once) ___________________________________________ When i was a child i thought like a child i acted like a child and i spoke like a child. But when I became an adult I laid away childish things.
CrestoftheStars Perkone	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:50:00 - [42] Originally by: Iron McFly Real Life war involves Patience and Penalty. Time and the Cost of Life are part of RL Tactics. WoW is just the combat, near zero Patience or Penalty. Many WoW players think EVE missions are a boring grind, Agreed. But many EVE players think WoW PvP is a boring grind, No ? From deer hunting to a RL squad on patrol or raid, its Not just Mayhem. EVE is more real, therefore more PvP. i hate when i see these kind of argument.. OKEY you want REAL LIFE penalty. FINE.. make it that when you get pod killed you lose your charecter! there NOW you got a panelty that involves in rl... ow NO! ??? that is TOO hard a penalty NO one would EVER do pvp... well you think some people arn't thinking like that about losing a ton of Isk?!? wake up man ___________________________________________ When i was a child i thought like a child i acted like a child and i spoke like a child. But when I became an adult I laid away childish things.
Krugerrand 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:50:00 - [43] But making isk in eve is easy and insurance means a lost BS is cheap to replace, t2 prices have crashed. How much less penalty do you want? Get a group of friends together, use a scout, play smart.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.14 23:08:00 - [44] Originally by: Krugerrand But making isk in eve is easy and insurance means a lost BS is cheap to replace, t2 prices have crashed. How much less penalty do you want? Get a group of friends together, use a scout, play smart. What he said. The insurance loss on a Ferox is down under 2 million ISK. Blaster/tackling configurations on that ship are less than 30 million a piece, if you play it smart. Step 1 is get used to flying without rigs. Those are a luxury, until you're in a ship you're almost certain not to lose. This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.05.14 23:09:00 - [45] Explain how to min-max a PvP setup in EVE, and I will begin to listen to your argument.
Misanth X-Fire	Posted - 2007.05.14 23:18:00 - [46] Edited by: Misanth on 14/05/2007 23:17:13 This game is alot better than WoW. This game is almot more centered around PvP than WoW. This game used to have solo- and smallgang PvP, now you need to spend craploads of time to find it. This game used to have fights where people fought 1 vs 1 and had fairly even fights with no runners. EVE is still better than WoW but from a PvP perspective this game really have decayed and fallen into crapness(tm). Remove local, remove all non-dictor bubbles, remove capital ships, re-move the hp boost and put 'nos hardpoints' (0-1 on non-amarrian ships, 1 on amarr ships, 3 on arbitrator and 4 on the amarr recons). As well as add a tier 3 battleship that has a mobile jumpdrive (that only work for that ship, can't jump other ships). Remove stabs. That'll add mobility, roaming, and give alot of optional solo- and small gang pvp. And EVE will have better PvP potential (again), compared to non-PvP games like WoW. --- bring back the pvp to EVE --- Remove local, remove all non-dictor bubbles, remove capital ships, re-move the hp boost and put 'nos hardpoints' (0-1 on non-amarrian ships, 1 on amarr ships, 3 on
Kylar Renpurs	Posted - 2007.05.14 23:23:00 - [47] buys a freighter and 1000 shuttles, jets them and launches several smartbombs Mwhahaha,, more than 800 kills in one day! Improve Market Competition!
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Direct Intent	Posted - 2007.05.14 23:30:00 - [48] Originally by: CrestoftheStars blablabla nerf penalties omg Dude, I remember the first time I died - got my ass handed to me and lost my shiny Thorax which was oh so expensive at the time. What did I do? Come to the forums and whine how I lost everything? No, I didn't. I got angry. I began working to get revenge on the one who took my first blood. I was gonna grow up and make the son of a gun pay. Many months down the road, I still fly a Thorax. Difference being, I use it solo and in gangs to deal damage and to be that son of a gun. I maintain a wide array of different ship types for maximum effectiveness in varied tactical situations. I haven't yet met the guy, but when I do ... I'll just have to run from all the other people to whom I've become the son of a gun. It's not really that hard to PVP, and although the losses burn, they're surmountable. Adapt and overcome.
T3h Pr4wNz0r3r Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.05.14 23:40:00 - [49] Edited by: T3h Pr4wNz0r3r on 14/05/2007 23:39:31 Go play on the test server if you want more PvP.... It's mildly entertaining, you'll get loads of action, there's little skill involved, there's no death penalty and it gets boring fast.... just like WoW.
Topaz Skydiver Minmatar Narrative Freshfood	Posted - 2007.05.14 23:43:00 - [50] Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 14/05/2007 23:41:55 I prefer wars that have a reason and are used as in instrument of power over arena-style pvp. Arena-style pvp has no impact except collecting points. A victory and loss doesn't mean much, if hundreds of similar victories and losses appear everyday in that game. I prefer a tough war, where the winner can chose, if he says 'good fight' or doesn't like his enemy and rubs it in. --------------------------------------------- Narrative Freshfood isn't a NPC corp ... lol
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.05.15 00:04:00 - [51] Originally by: Kiviar Originally by: madaluap wow = worse than testserver pvp, Originally by: Lynal WoW pvp just doesn't have the adrenaline that comes with EvE pvp. Go to a wow forum and you will hear people go on and on about how boring and time consuming pvp in eve is. People have different ideas about what is fun. What i am trying to say is: Neutron blaster 2 + void + 4* magstabs > A emo elf _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Rastigan Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.15 00:19:00 - [52] What happens when a similar sized gank squad encounters a similar sized gate camp ? (it does happen)... Total Awesomeness. 2 Things that easily make EVE PvP MUCHMUCHMUCH better than WoW PvP..(besides the fact that WoW PvP = counterstrike,. #1 Your as good as what you risk, its the main thing that prevents the typical WoW player (who would never risk his 'precious' epic gear) from playing Eve, THANK YOU CCP!! #2 This isnt a typical MMORPG were 100 angry villagers die to that level 60 warrior, you get 20 angry frigates on a BS and typically its "you sunk my battleship!!" time.
Rakshassa	Posted - 2007.05.15 07:26:00 - [53] i disagree with people saying WoW pvp is boring (ofc it depends on what class u play and how u play, trinket mages lol skillz >>) the biggest adrenalin rush i have ever got is one vs one pvp in battlegrounds on my druid, its so split second your reactions have to be perfect. i think this comes down to Eve is stratigic (planning before hand) WoW is tactical (changes in the thick of combat) But i still believe the harsh death penatlies will stop eve becoming a big pvp game.
Haks'he Lirky 8th	Posted - 2007.05.15 07:30:00 - [54] Originally by: Istoledat 0.0 pvp seems like a game of waiting at gates (for hours). This to me is not really pvp it's just waiting for the other team to get bored and say F-it or they go away. If they do say f-it and come through a gate then it's a turkey shoot lag fest for a few min. Low sec pvp gate camps, this is about as close as this game comes real heart pounding pvp. I only hope that putting lvl 5 missions in low sec will make these areas more populated and thus perpetuating this style of play. Empire no pvp there unless you have war decs. WoW you can pvp non stop all day long with targets all over the place. NON STOP ALL DAY LONG. I have gotten over 800 kills in that game in one day. That's a lot of action. The big difference is that Eve has a harsh penalty and wow has no penalty. So in the end what do we learn? Harsh penalty = Less pvp. Let the flaming commence Ive gotten over 1000 kills in one day in Counterstrike, yet here I am playing eve online. You can play with your self all day long, but it's still better to have the companionship of a woman once a week. Quality > Quantity.
Spider Iarus	Posted - 2007.05.15 07:36:00 - [55] Why. Would. You. Want. That. Seriously, death penalties in Mass-Market-Online- Role-Playing-Games are just a joke. Ever seen a WoW priest bothered healing non-guildies in a match? Why would he, just die and come back 10 seconds later in better shape than you would've been after a heal. This is a watered down version of DAoC where you at least had to bother waiting for rez or running from the pad. And that's a watered down version of body-hunting in EQ. Pretty soon 'PVP' in the average MMO will involve no pointed weapons just in case some 13 year old gets his ass handed to him and cancels his sub. I understand your feeling that there would be more pvp if EVE had smaller death penalties, but I think you're totally wrong. EVE would not exist without those penalties. It's why people PVP. You can inflict a real loss on another player in EVE, something tangible that makes combat sting a little. As they say the rule is 'don't fly what you can't afford' but still, no one is happy about losing a 40mil ship even if they've got a few billion in the bank. That risk - the feeling that you have something actually at stake - is the reason games have PVP in the first place. You lose pride, you lose stuff, or you inflict that loss on others. EVE requires a sense of actual adventure for those who would take the risk of pvp. It requires exposure to this risk in order to make really good money. Frankly if anything needs a rethinking it's stripping belts for billions of isk in a nice, safe empire-only Hulk...but I digress.
Aodha Khan Minmatar The Paratwa Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.05.15 07:41:00 - [56] Originally by: Istoledat WoW you can pvp non stop all day long with targets all over the place. NON STOP ALL DAY LONG. I have gotten over 800 kills in that game in one day. That's a lot of action. Yes, and after you kill those 800 you figure out it was all for nothing and you can repeat the same steps the next day, and the day after that, and .... Paratwa Recruitment
DarkFenix Caldari Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2007.05.15 07:43:00 - [57] Well for starters, if you think PvP in Eve is only about gatecamping, then you've no idea what PvP really is do you? If you want PvP, go looking for it, more often than not, you'll find it pretty damn quick. As for death penalties, they're good. Yes I'm sure in WoW you can walk up to another player and hammer a couple of buttons when they die... only for them to get back up in a few minutes and carry on just the same as they were before. You were nothing more than a minor inconvenience to them. On Eve, if you blow up a person's ship, they feel that loss, people often fly ships they can barely afford to replace, sometimes ones they outright can't replace. It's satisfying to destroy that. That satisfaction is what makes PvP in Eve better than any other MMO in existence. So yeah, probably harsh penalty = less pvp, but it also = crap pvp.
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.15 07:50:00 - [58] Originally by: Istoledat 0.0 pvp seems like a game of waiting at gates (for hours) You are doing it all wrong. I meant it seriously, you are doing it wrong. How about instead of waiting on your gate you open that map up and look for a systme with a load of active pilots in it. Then ...I know this may sound revolutionary....you go to it. You appoint a scout to scan down the occasional ratter on the way so everybody has a good gank and then you proceed to raid the system with the most hostiles in it. Rest of the time you just roam about, far from your support base and take things as they come, sometimes you win sometimes you lose but you alwyas get action. Static camping is less fun than watching paint dry. Now if you are in a corp that believes this is the only way to pvp then you need a change man. POS war on the other hand just plain sucks(less you are in a dread and even then its boring if the enemy do not put up a fight). F4T4L Recruitment
Haks'he Lirky 8th	Posted - 2007.05.15 07:52:00 - [59] Originally by: CrestoftheStars Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson Originally by: Istoledat Originally by: MotoTsume no flame, just a question why are you here, and not playing WoW? Don't get me wrong, I LIKE EVE A LOT! My point is that this macho you must loose all your stuff for pvp is actually hindering pvp. Why? If anything I'd have thought it would encourage to get better at PVP so your losses are less. you do have the brain capacity of putting two and two together right?! i mean if people lose there ships it will take a LONG time for the average player to get back out there in a new one, and why should they even TRY to go out there? you only get better at something by doing it, and if you have to lose your ship everytime you try... well about 90% of all players would aventually stop dying, and you know as well as i that some people rock at pvp others don't the people that rocks are maybe 1% of eve population, then there is properly around 9% that are really good and then there is the rest of average 80% and bad pvpers 10%... the bad pvpers will never get into pvp, but the average would join up if the penalty wasn't so hard, so that dying would in some way not take that much out of them, and they could feel that they had a chance to improve there pvp skills without sacrifycing everything (NO you DON'T get good at pvping in a bs by doing PVP in a FRIG... so no if you wanna be good with a bs that is what you will lose a ton of by trying to learn how.. soo .. yer think for once) No penalty = everyone flying Tech2 ships with faction gear, maybe you should think before you post?
beor oranes Caldari Furious Angels Requiem-Aeternam	Posted - 2007.05.15 07:55:00 - [60] OP needs to practice suicide PvP, this is what I do when I go pvp'ing. I accept when I undock that I'm not going to come back in my ship, maybe not even my pod but possibly waking up in a shiny new clone. I go look for someone to blow my ship up and then try and survive or at least put up a good fight. Suicide PvP means I get as much or as little PvP action as I want. It's not about getting kills, its about having fun, getting the blood pumping and having fun with my corp mates. If you really want to top your killboard and get the honour/respect from other players then you have to work at it and get the skills and skill to beat the other player. Just cos you got 800 kills in one day doesn't mean there is more PvP in WoW just means that its easier... ------------------------------------------------ Either pick a dry year when fighting wars or civilize the moronic races and have no wars at all!
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.15 08:12:00 - [61] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 15/05/2007 08:12:41 The fact that you can get 800 kills in one day is exactly why WoW pvp is so meaningless. Its like Pvp Grinding, basically. By the way... what kills? They all respawned 10 seconds later in the exact same state as before the "kill". --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.05.15 08:20:00 - [62] Edited by: Laboratus on 15/05/2007 08:19:54 WoW PVP makes me a sad panda. It just does not matter. There is no reason not to suicide zerg, since you don't lose anything. In eve, tracking down and hunting someone, creating careful traps, planning, coordinating and finally getting that someone in just the place where you want them, and smoking them. Now that is pvp. What is best in eve? To crush your enemies. To see them running before you. To hear the lamentation of their ****s. That is best in eve. There is no instant gratification in eve. It takes patience, planning and good a good exectuin of said plan. For instant gratification, go for a pez dispenser. Lift head, get candy. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.15 08:22:00 - [63] wow pvp is kind of like real life laser-games like megazone, laser dome, or whatever. You "kill" someone and he's put out for 5 seconds, then it's back to killing... There's a reason why I quit wow, and that was one of them. - -- Sound in EVE
Mr Abbadon Svea Rike	Posted - 2007.05.15 09:25:00 - [64] wow is about how good you really are. K lvl 1 player cant beat a lvl 70 but a 35 can beat a 60 with ease. EvE is about who has the biggest wallet and best ship n skills. _______________________________________________________________ Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Taurequis Waylander 01	Posted - 2007.05.15 09:27:00 - [65] Originally by: Mr Abbadon wow is about how good you really are. K lvl 1 player cant beat a lvl 70 but a 35 can beat a 60 with ease. EvE is about who has the biggest wallet and best ship n skills. or in other words.... He who has the most Titans, wins.....
Mr Abbadon Svea Rike	Posted - 2007.05.15 09:47:00 - [66] Originally by: Taurequis Originally by: Mr Abbadon wow is about how good you really are. K lvl 1 player cant beat a lvl 70 but a 35 can beat a 60 with ease. EvE is about who has the biggest wallet and best ship n skills. or in other words.... He who has the most Titans, wins..... semms like it, just look how BoD is doing, using other alliances as shields and has 4 titans _______________________________________________________________ Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Glumpumpkin House Elf Liberation Front	Posted - 2007.05.15 09:47:00 - [67] Originally by: Mr Abbadon wow is about how good you really are. K lvl 1 player cant beat a lvl 70 but a 35 can beat a 60 with ease. EvE is about who has the biggest wallet and best ship n skills. Patently untrue. Even in EVE, ships of a lesser class piloted with lesser skills can bring down much larger ships piloted by people with higher SP. Fitting has as much to do with victory as skillpoints do, and every ship has a fitting to counter it's effectiveness. To take it a step further let's look at the fight itself. EVE PvP is facilitated by careful planning, yes, but once initiated there are a multitude of other decisions and careful considerations that each player must make if they want to win. Drone management, capacitor management, speed and transversal management, keeping the scanner open watching for enemy reinforcements, guaging the effectiveness of your tank versus your enemy's, all of this has to be monitored and adjusted throughout the course of a fight. Fail to watch it all and you've left a weak spot for your enemy to take advantage of. PvP in EVE has a LOT to do with actual experience, and until you've graduated from the "orbit f1-f8" school of thought you're going to be bored.
Araxmas The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency	Posted - 2007.05.15 09:51:00 - [68] Originally by: Mr Abbadon wow is about how good you really are. K lvl 1 player cant beat a lvl 70 but a 35 can beat a 60 with ease. EvE is about who has the biggest wallet and best ship n skills. 35 beat a 60 with ease? Yes if he is what they call a 'twink' which is a low player upgraded with the most expensive upgrades....oh wait doesn't that mean that the person with the biggest wallet wins hmmm Where as on the other hand a mamber of my old corp 'sgt blade' took down a harpy with just his merlin....Now that IS player skill and not wallet (no his merlin was not t2 or faction and no the harpy was not afk heh) -------- Robbie Rotten left me
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.05.15 09:51:00 - [69] Originally by: Mr Abbadon wow is about how good you really are. K lvl 1 player cant beat a lvl 70 but a 35 can beat a 60 with ease. EvE is about who has the biggest wallet and best ship n skills. What are you talking about? ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Elrock Storm	Posted - 2007.05.15 10:16:00 - [70] Edited by: Elrock Storm on 15/05/2007 10:15:59 The way I see it à 2 years in WOW and 6 weeks in Eve, both have flaws. EVE - Newer players can never catch up with older players due to the real time skills system and itÆs effective unlimited ceiling. Okay the differences become less as skill levels take longer to learn. In WOW you had a ceiling with base Character skills and it was all about gear, which could be got though various routes ie PVP rewards, PVE encounters and crafting. EVE - Indeed does seem to cause more of a rush in PVP due to the potential loses, but as some one has already said, he with the biggest wallet wins. Ie if you are rich enough to lose T2 gear and T2 ships you will win more often. EVE - The PVE element in eve is pity crap tbh, from what I have seen so far, compared to WOW. EVE - PVP is a massive time sink, unless you can fly very specialist ships into enemy territory. As mostly it about setting an ambush (gate camp) and waiting for some unsuspecting soul to jump in. And a level 35th taking out a 60th in wow in your dreams mate..... They could not even hit it a 60th tbh. lol
smashsmash	Posted - 2007.05.15 10:23:00 - [71] i agree with you for the most part except about people with better gear. really good players can take down impressive ships whose players don't know how to play as effectively. the skill system is a love/hate relationship for most players but i think it actually keeps people playing longer by forcing them to specialize and investing time in their character. Originally by: Elrock Storm Edited by: Elrock Storm on 15/05/2007 10:15:59 The way I see it à 2 years in WOW and 6 weeks in Eve, both have flaws. EVE - Newer players can never catch up with older players due to the real time skills system and itÆs effective unlimited ceiling. Okay the differences become less as skill levels take longer to learn. In WOW you had a ceiling with base Character skills and it was all about gear, which could be got though various routes ie PVP rewards, PVE encounters and crafting. EVE - Indeed does seem to cause more of a rush in PVP due to the potential loses, but as some one has already said, he with the biggest wallet wins. Ie if you are rich enough to lose T2 gear and T2 ships you will win more often. EVE - The PVE element in eve is pity crap tbh, from what I have seen so far, compared to WOW. EVE - PVP is a massive time sink, unless you can fly very specialist ships into enemy territory. As mostly it about setting an ambush (gate camp) and waiting for some unsuspecting soul to jump in. And a level 35th taking out a 60th in wow in your dreams mate..... They could not even hit it a 60th tbh. lol
ry ry StateCorp	Posted - 2007.05.15 10:27:00 - [72] Originally by: Afrodite Etnellag Originally by: Istoledat Originally by: nickycakes i guess if spamming 1 or 2 buttons over and over for hours for 0 reward and no incentive to actually be good is your bag, then bye as apposed to pushing Fkeys? huge difference eh? You do not get the whole picture, there must be a reason to PVP, in eve you have plenty, political, isk gain, griefing(which results in isk gain) WoW, on the other hand miss a lot of those reasons to pvp, actually it has none so yeah the whole idea might look the same, but its not i think it's be a mistake to over intellectualise the PvP in Eve.
News Minmatar Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.05.15 10:37:00 - [73] Originally by: Istoledat over 800 kills in that game in one day omg, you must have the sword of a thousand truths.
Kehmor Caldari The Movement	Posted - 2007.05.15 11:20:00 - [74] i think ccp would loose probably 40% of their player base if they made it so you lost nothing when you died. 3 month insurancewas added for whiners like you.
Superbus Maximus Gallente Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.15 11:43:00 - [75] Sometimes I tend to agree eve seems to be turning into a oh **** log off hostile, or we'll fight but wait till we get three to one numbers on ya. Please do not edit moderator sig comments. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Dopefish Amarr Quad and Fish	Posted - 2007.05.15 11:44:00 - [76] I think i would enjoy eve pvp more if there were some station function that would allow me to jump from jita to wherever i wanted. Traveling and chasing fittings in less populated areas kills it for me.
Charlie Narda Caldari DEATH'S LEGION Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.05.15 11:50:00 - [77] I say F**k you. If WoW is soo much better, why are you not playing it?
Omega Man The Geddy Foundation	Posted - 2007.05.15 12:01:00 - [78] The original comparison is so bogus its mind boggling. There is more protein in a maggot than in steak. Does not mean we all eat maggots.
Pimm Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.05.15 12:15:00 - [79] First of all WoW PvP is a joke. Alterac valley? Since when has this become PvP. It;s just a big rush to the enemy base to kill the NPC's and you may but more often than not yu wonÆt encounter any enemy players as you just take over the PvE objectives. That other capture the flag thing yea that great until someone uses land geometry to hid your flag until it you lose the one you re carrying. WoW PvP has got to be the worse implementation of battle ever. Oh and did I mention the 45 to 60 minute queue times to even get into battles on non PvP servers?
Awox Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.15 13:02:00 - [80] I haven't played WoW, but I understand the OP. No longer are the days where you can roam through low-sec and get a fight out of someone, or through 0.0 and get a fight (even solo).. The only way I have gotten PvP as of late is either taking small gangs up against 2 to 1 odds (our enemies don't engage with even numbers/firepower - and why should they?) or camping a low-sec/0.0 gate. Long gone are the days when I can roam through 0.0, jump into a busy system and try to kill an NPCer before his buddies come. Now they see the negative standing and immediately warp to safety. I chased a Brutix for 4 jumps yesterday in my Cyclone, when we were finally at a gate together, he logged off mid-jump leaving me **** out of luck and wasting a great deal of my time. Pretty soon the only fights that people will have in EVE are the ones over sovereignty - there's no other reason to fight. Tech II loot hardly makes a kill worth it when you weigh up the dangers of being ganked when you try to kill a 12000hp battlecruiser with 80/80/80/80 resists and dual repairers - BOOST OUTLAWS (-10.0 and proud of it)
Barbaro55a Caldari Os Lobos Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.15 13:10:00 - [81] I think this is what your looking for. This was a waist of my time. .......................................... We come in Peace, FIRE AT WILL---Blog
Ashaz	Posted - 2007.05.15 13:27:00 - [82] wow has poledancing elfs and gnomes with pink hair. what else is there to day? oh. and you'd get permabanned for most things that is considdered fair play in eve.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.05.15 13:28:00 - [83] Edited by: Laboratus on 15/05/2007 13:26:05 Originally by: Elrock Storm Edited by: Elrock Storm on 15/05/2007 10:15:59 The way I see it à 2 years in WOW and 6 weeks in Eve, both have flaws. EVE - Newer players can never catch up with older players due to the real time skills system and itÆs effective unlimited ceiling. Okay the differences become less as skill levels take longer to learn. In WOW you had a ceiling with base Character skills and it was all about gear, which could be got though various routes ie PVP rewards, PVE encounters and crafting. EVE - Indeed does seem to cause more of a rush in PVP due to the potential loses, but as some one has already said, he with the biggest wallet wins. Ie if you are rich enough to lose T2 gear and T2 ships you will win more often. Ok. New players trying to gank random ppl does not work. What does work, however, is hunting specific targets. Choose a corp, player or alliance and you are good to go. Once you know where you base off, start looking at who is living in your chosen area of operation. (low sec, close 0.0) Start to do a bit of research. Identify targets from enemy killboards, look at what race ships they fly, what kinds of setups do they prefer. And fit yours accordingly. If you are going for a specific target, use location agents to find his excact location. New players just need to work together. New players can by playing smart kill practically any older player (with the obvious exception of capitals and supercapitals), and after a few months the difference in skills starts to diminish to non relevant levels. Once you have your gunnery and ship skills at lvl 4, you only lose a few percent in performance, if at all. Not everyone perfects their skills. In wow, no chance in **** taking down someone 20 levels above you. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Amber Saint Genos Occidere	Posted - 2007.05.15 13:34:00 - [84] Dont change the death penalties, the ones we got now are almost too kind. (dont know if anyone have written this before, just cba reading through it all) I used to play Ultima Online, and there you lost everything you were carrying when you died. The pvp there was excellent! Then.... the day came when they f'cked the game up. They implemented something called insurence (which for a really stupid low sum let you keep the items you insured when you died). This really made the death penalty less harsh. Did the pvp increase? No, everyone left... (except the newbs who joined after the patch and runs around with what you wow players call epix and shout around how much their epix owns ur pvp skills) We dont play the game because we can LOOSE stuff... we play the game because we can GAIN stuff from PvP. And someone mentioned something about making eve "battleground". H*ll No. And if you're afraid of loosing your ship in pvp? JUST FLY T1 FITTED FRIGATES? I can pay for them if you dont have cash to cover your losses [@ Istoledat, im not gonna pay for every frigate in eve lol].
Ashaz	Posted - 2007.05.15 13:36:00 - [85] Originally by: Mr Abbadon wow is about how good you really are. K lvl 1 player cant beat a lvl 70 but a 35 can beat a 60 with ease. EvE is about who has the biggest wallet and best ship n skills. I have a lvl 60 nelf hunter with all ds/gs and a rhok'delar. Please. take your 35 and bring it on. if you can even hit me once, i will quite happily poke you once for twice your total ammount of health. You are not very good at lieing you know.
Buxaroo Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.15 13:47:00 - [86] Originally by: Istoledat ..... WoW you can pvp non stop all day long with targets all over the place. NON STOP ALL DAY LONG. I have gotten over 800 kills in that game in one day. That's a lot of action. The big difference is that Eve has a harsh penalty and wow has no penalty. So in the end what do we learn? Harsh penalty = Less pvp. Let the flaming commence How boring is that? Sounds to me like your some 13 year old with ADD. And if pressing the same key over and over and over again and the guy falls down with NO CONSEQUENCE, then it's irrelevant. This is why I don't play any of the other MMO's out there right now because there is no purpose to pvp. It's pointless. You gain nothing from pvp. Arena style combat is boring as hell. It's old and has no bearing on the future of the game. In WoW, you migtht die...but guess what? You still have all the junk you had before. And you haven't gained any land, nor set your opponent back at all. No consequences for your actions. Waste of time as far as I am concerned. Sure, you get instant gratification. Wow. Big deal. All you are doing is flogging your dolphin. You ain't actually doing it. "No matter where you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai
Beowulf Scheafer Gallente Hell Hounds	Posted - 2007.05.15 13:54:00 - [87] i thought about giving my comment in here that the risk to loose all/the chance to get the opponents stuff is what makes pvp in eve so great, the fact that people actually think about what they do and how instead of getting killed 99times per minute... then again i know everybody knows it, so its not worth mention it
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.15 14:09:00 - [88] Originally by: Elrock Storm EVE - Newer players can never catch up with older players due to the real time skills system and itÆs effective unlimited ceiling. Okay the differences become less as skill levels take longer to learn. In WOW you had a ceiling with base Character skills and it was all about gear, which could be got though various routes ie PVP rewards, PVE encounters and crafting. Ok, lets shoot this down now. Ever hear of a concept called "diminishing returns"? Think about your education in the last couple years as an example. As players progress up the skill tree, the time taken to learn each skill in succession increases almost exponentially. For a 20 million SP player, take away the last five skills he's learned, and you've probably just accounted for the last three month's he's played and a little over three million points of his skill progression. In that time, a player coming up behind him with half that many skill points has aquired 10-15 skills, while earning maybe 2 million SP (if his learning skills aren't topped out). Increased training time becomes a wall. For the last two months, my alt account toon has been training ONE SINGLE SKILL. 56 days of training time, which is actually pretty low compared to some of the skills being trained by advanced toons in the 20 million plus skill point range. A one million plus SP level V skill for his mining barge. In that same stretch of time, my lead toon has aquired cruise missiles, citadel torpedos, tech II small and medium drones (Vespas, Hornets, Warriors and Valkyries), doubled the number of levels of shield skills, electronics warfare, armor and hull repair, trained Gallente ships from Frigates I to Cruisers III, learning skills to level IV, plus the tier 2 learning skills, and stands a fair chance of having use of Cloaking Devices, all before this toon on the advanced 56 day skill trains one level of Mining Barge. If you look close, the level of skill advancement a 20 million SP toon has over a 6 million SP toon, it ain't that much, really. Unless the 20 million SP toon has been laser focused on a single particular arrangement of skills for best-effect in one particular area, they're not so far ahead of a six month old character as you might imagine. High level training times are like a ten ton ball and chain on their ankle, rookie toons catch up to their level a lot faster than the raw skill point totals would make it seem. This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.15 14:13:00 - [89] Ive spent almost a month getting Drones from IV to V. In that time I could probably have taken 20 other skills from III to IV. Definently some major diminishing returns in this game. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Alrich	Posted - 2007.05.15 14:31:00 - [90] if anything, this game needs to get a higher death penalty. as it is now, you only lose the price of the fitting unless you use t2 ships
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.15 14:43:00 - [91] Originally by: Alrich if anything, this game needs to get a higher death penalty. as it is now, you only lose the price of the fitting unless you use t2 ships That's high enough, thanks. Fitting costs can be a pretty hardcore hit to the wallet, just having the ship replaced is enough to keep a bad fall from being crippling for players without a year or more of money farming under their belt. When you're ready to take the big leap, or you have a larger corp supporting you, then you can go Tier 2 and play PvP in "hardcore" mode. This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Adaris Dark and Light inc.	Posted - 2007.05.15 14:47:00 - [92] Originally by: nickycakes i guess if spamming 1 or 2 buttons over and over for hours for 0 reward and no incentive to actually be good is your bag, then bye yep, thats wow right there. The only loss you get when you pvp in wow be it attacking or getting ganked is the repair bill you need to pay to get your armor fixed. And becasue wow is a farming game, everyone has the isk, eh I mean gold. * * * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euZ0j7vtKEQ
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.15 14:48:00 - [93] pages 1-4 skiped.... Player vs Player sucks compared to the real thing. The real thing has the worse penalties there can ever be. Not to mention it freaking hurts like hell when your target gets a lucky shot in! So what does this tell us? REAL LIFE SUCKS dont leave the games.... Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.15 14:49:00 - [94] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 15/05/2007 14:48:12 Originally by: Roshan longshot pages 1-4 skiped.... Player vs Player sucks compared to the real thing. The real thing has the worse penalties there can ever be. Not to mention it freaking hurts like hell when your target gets a lucky shot in! So what does this tell us? REAL LIFE SUCKS dont leave the games.... Bush should have invaded BoB instead of Iraq. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.15 14:52:00 - [95] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 15/05/2007 14:48:12 Originally by: Roshan longshot pages 1-4 skiped.... Player vs Player sucks compared to the real thing. The real thing has the worse penalties there can ever be. Not to mention it freaking hurts like hell when your target gets a lucky shot in! So what does this tell us? REAL LIFE SUCKS dont leave the games.... Bush should have invaded BoB instead of Iraq. Yeah and I would'nt limp today if he did!!! Sorry sucker snuck up on us. "Volent tour spring '91. The lost children we dont need a reason. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Isyel Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.15 14:56:00 - [96] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 15/05/2007 14:48:12 Originally by: Roshan longshot pages 1-4 skiped.... Player vs Player sucks compared to the real thing. The real thing has the worse penalties there can ever be. Not to mention it freaking hurts like hell when your target gets a lucky shot in! So what does this tell us? REAL LIFE SUCKS dont leave the games.... Bush should have invaded BoB instead of Iraq. Hundreds of 1 to 2 km ships, a few 30km ships which can cause complete ruin of a planet's atmosphere in one shot. Mmmmmmm. I see why he chose the softer target. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.05.15 14:57:00 - [97] The only thing I'm genuinely disappointed about in eve (aside from no branding) is that pvp skills are in selecting a setup. There is no aiming or manual flying the ship and avoiding crashing etc. Khaldari Research Services KPA Recruiting!
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.15 14:58:00 - [98] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 15/05/2007 14:56:24 Originally by: Spoon Thumb The only thing I'm genuinely disappointed about in eve (aside from no branding) is that pvp skills are in selecting a setup. There is no aiming or manual flying the ship and avoiding crashing etc. Try playing minmatar without manual flying... bye-bye ship. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
ForumPosterAlt	Posted - 2007.05.15 14:59:00 - [99] I used to think the same thing. But this last week has been the most exciting week evar if you are in the right spot. The system i'm in regularly has 7 titans wandering around.
Barbaro55a Caldari Os Lobos Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.15 15:09:00 - [100] I can beat that, the system i inhabit has several HUGE Veldspar asteroids. Who would have thought it! I'm RICH ! ! ! .......................................... We come in Peace, FIRE AT WILL---Blog
Thorndin MacMorrin Brotherhood of Acquisitions	Posted - 2007.05.15 15:38:00 - [101] Edited by: Thorndin MacMorrin on 15/05/2007 15:42:22 Originally by: Mr Abbadon wow is about how good you really are. K lvl 1 player cant beat a lvl 70 but a 35 can beat a 60 with ease. EvE is about who has the biggest wallet and best ship n skills. There is no way a lvl 35 could touch a lvl 60 in WoW. If the 60 was all in greens and the 35 was in purples the 35 still is not going to touch a lvl 60. IÆm pretty sure I could be afk, and my pet would waste your lvl 35, even with some of the broken exploits IÆve seen in WoW mechanics. I could devastate a party of 35Æs in WoW with my 64 hunter. Cloth types would be one-shotted before they realized I was there, and big red kitty would tear up the rest. This is a huge difference between eve and WoW, and a common misconception that IÆve seen friends bring to eve from fantasy based games. New players in eve can quickly become valuable assets to corps, both in industrial settings, pve and pvp. Skill points in eve do not equate to levels in WoW. Ten level 10 characters in WoW could not take a level 70 character. But a gang of well low skill point players in frigates that know what they are doing can take down much larger targets if they know what they are doing.
Araxmas The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency	Posted - 2007.05.15 16:03:00 - [102] Originally by: Adaris Originally by: nickycakes i guess if spamming 1 or 2 buttons over and over for hours for 0 reward and no incentive to actually be good is your bag, then bye yep, thats wow right there. The only loss you get when you pvp in wow be it attacking or getting ganked is the repair bill you need to pay to get your armor fixed. And becasue wow is a farming game, everyone has the isk, eh I mean gold. Even worse than that....you don't have a repair bill from pvp deaths -------- Robbie Rotten left me
Beatrix Kindo	Posted - 2007.05.15 16:23:00 - [103] yes wow is very easy game and pvp means nothing there..i rather play Counter strike..but Eve is not perfect it need fixes as well..for example why whe cant insure modules as well?
Septicimia	Posted - 2007.05.15 16:25:00 - [104] wow=grindfest grindfest grindfest
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.15 16:26:00 - [105] We can stop kicking the OP now. I think he's unconscious. But quick, somebody write "WoW sucks!" on his forehead with a permanent marker!
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.05.15 16:43:00 - [106] @Op Wow PvP : Figth against say 100 players. You loose ? no consequencies and who cares. Eve PvP : Figth against say 200 players. You loose ? Damn I'm sorry, it'll be hard for your alliance and your team in the future. WoW is Macdonald, Eve is * restaurants. Yes you have to wait to actually eat good food. ----- History is made by whinners Originally by:** DB Preacher (...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
Mista Sexamalicious Sexa Inc	Posted - 2007.05.15 17:02:00 - [107] Edited by: Mista Sexamalicious on 15/05/2007 17:03:51 EVE was my first MMO/RPG/G game I'd ever played. And believe me my accounts will continue until EVE no longer exists. But the immense amount of solo killage in WoW just makes it a different type of game to me. But 10 days ago I started the ten-day trial in WoW. Let me tell you I found it awesome to say the least. Now the trial would only let my go up to level 20 and only max my skills to 100 and I think only 15 talent points. So after reaching the point where questing and the like didn't really do much for my character I set out exploring everything else . And wouldn't you know it I ended up in a contested alliance territory. Redridge Mountains. ( on the burning legend server I think it is.) That's when things got good. You see I chose to be an Undead Rogue. Fun times. So I'm creeping around and what do I see. A Human Priest on a Quest. He's level 22 and I'm Level 20. So at first I think I don't stand a chance, but I learned this type of gaming from EVE. So It's Party Time! I creep up in stealth garrote him and when into a series of sinister strikes. And wouldn't you know? He melted like butter. I was so annoyed that I couldn't loot him though. Shame. So began my personal quest to kill as many people as I can. For the first couple of days it was great solo. I got somewhere around 10-15 kills alone. I would even take them two at a time, Sap one and kill the weakest then go kill the other. Then I left back to Undercity to rep my gear get second set of gear and get back to my hunting. When I got back to Redridge I find a friend. Level 22 Tauren Druid. We became the "Terror of Redridge." We were careful not to kill the same person or ppl too many times too often. But there was never a shortage victims.Between Redridge and Duskwood. And with two of us barely anyone got away. Because we could each take one each and kill them simultaneously. It was a hell of an experience. And On the last day which was yesterday. I received 41 kills for 47 honor that day. A few more than my buddy because while he was AFK I was out killing. So yesterday we threw a great big party in Redridge and we were giving away a lot of cake. All in all, I love EVE, but I'm also falling in love with WoW. And in a few weeks when I go back to playing WoW again. It's gonna be terrible for all after I level up me character. Not to mention I'm gonna bring my new WoW buddy over to EVE so we can terrorize here. To think that I had to go to a different game to find my Wingman. Oh and what i found to be the most pleasant thing about it. THERE'S NO LOCAL. ________________________________________________________ Real Men don't use Local.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.15 17:14:00 - [108] Originally by: Mista Sexamalicious good times I felt like that before battlegrounds. Then everybody went in there and started to grind honor. Outdoor pvp basically disappeared. And thats probably why you got some kills... I guess nobody even cares anymore if they die once or twice outdoor. They just pick up their body and go in their merry way to grind honor or fight some npc mob for items. I dont know, I cant seem to see the point of it all. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.15 17:27:00 - [109] Since I've played WoW and quit about 3 times now and I am still in eve for the past 4 years now, I just have to comment since the other sides of the coin wasn't looked at at all by the OP. Originally by: Istoledat 0.0 pvp seems like a game of waiting at gates (for hours). This to me is not really pvp it's just waiting for the other team to get bored and say F-it or they go away. If they do say f-it and come through a gate then it's a turkey shoot lag fest for a few min. As opposed to waiting for some lower level to wander along so you can beat the crap out of him? Originally by: Istoledat WoW you can pvp non stop all day long with targets all over the place. NON STOP ALL DAY LONG. I have gotten over 800 kills in that game in one day. That's a lot of action. And what level were they? And care to explain what would be the point in that? I mean, to what end does it serve? In Eve in 0.0, there is usually a purpose behind the PvP like claiming territory. WoW just resets. Someone dies and no one cares because they just came back without any loss of anything. I have enjoyed the WoW battlegrounds on occasion but without a good group, you just end up getting pounded on by overwhelming numbers plus after awhile doing the same scenario, it gets dull. Originally by: Istoledat The big difference is that Eve has a harsh penalty and wow has no penalty. So in the end what do we learn? Harsh penalty = Less pvp. Then there would be no adreline rush. In WoW, you die and then so what? I go back to grab my stuff and go on. Gee, what a thrill. Pardon me while I get more excitement listening to my grandfather talk about how things were like when he was a kid. After 4 years however, I don't find much of a rush anymore in most EVE PvP since ISK is so devalued but I find new rushes by taking on larger numbers than me or fighting in a ship that is one stage down from what I am trying to go up against. But I still miss the enjoyment out of working hard to get that first cruiser and the nail biting experience it was when we came close to losing it. Originally by: Istoledat My point is that this macho you must loose all your stuff for pvp is actually hindering pvp. As opposed to the machoness of being higher level than someone in a contested area that is questing and killing them just because they can't possibly fight back? Yes, how macho. At least in most dangerous EVE locations, you can keep an eye on local and if someone suspicious looking pops in, you can get the hell out of there. Alot of the PvP aspects you mention in Eve may soon be changing. CCP are quite aware how much different Eve PvP is and how the numbers game is so terrible in it. In other games, numbers always wins no matter what strategy. They are seeking to change that in Eve because of the consquences of losing in Eve PvP.
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.15 17:32:00 - [110] Originally by: Janu Hull Originally by: Alrich if anything, this game needs to get a higher death penalty. as it is now, you only lose the price of the fitting unless you use t2 ships That's high enough, thanks. Fitting costs can be a pretty hardcore hit to the wallet, just having the ship replaced is enough to keep a bad fall from being crippling for players without a year or more of money farming under their belt. When you're ready to take the big leap, or you have a larger corp supporting you, then you can go Tier 2 and play PvP in "hardcore" mode. Actually, that is only true if you are working alone. If your corp happens to do invention and you are set up in 0.0 with labs and such, the corp can build you replacement T2 gear for a much lower cost than market.
Terreen Rha	Posted - 2007.05.15 17:44:00 - [111] Every MMO that I've played that has PvP, with exception of EvE, is all about the CotW (Class of the week). WoW, DoAC, AO, SWG and PS it was always the same thing. However was the CoTW won in 1 vs. 1 fights. Take a look at the class population in any of these games were PvP is allowed. In WoW, for example, the highest pop classes are always the CoTW. EvE PvP is more often then not decided by choices made before the fight, tactics and of course gear. There are no "I win", or automatic e-peen extenders in EvE. Well unless you count Titans, but it's not like just anyone can have one.
NightmareX Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.15 17:51:00 - [112] Edited by: NightmareX on 15/05/2007 17:49:27 Originally by: Istoledat WoW you can pvp non stop all day long with targets all over the place. NON STOP ALL DAY LONG. I have gotten over 800 kills in that game in one day. That's a lot of action. Yeah that's a lot of action for nothing. 5 kills in EVE have more meaning than 800 kills in WoW. In WoW you just kill to get kills, and to get enough honour or whatever it's called to get the best items in WoW. In EVE i'm killing to show others that i'm a really good pvper, and that we don't fear anyone, even when the enemy are like 4-5 times bigger than us. Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred
Pimm Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.05.15 18:15:00 - [113] >Oh and what i found to be the most pleasant thing about it. THERE'S NO LOCAL. So you missed Barrens chat compleatly?
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.05.15 18:25:00 - [114] I have to agree with the OP. Everyone who claims that WoW PVP is spamming 1-2 buttons has never played WoW enough to tell. PVP in WoW is much more tactical than in EVE, EVE PVP is decided by (in order of importance): - number and size of ships on each side - lag - skills Almost all fights in EVE are completely unbalanced, there is hardly any 1v1 (if you don't count ganking ratters, which is 1v1+NPCs) and only in the rare event that opposing fleets are nearly balanced in size and lag isn't the deciding factor, only then do tactics play a major role. Tactics being the fittings people chose mostly, since F1-F8 is still what most will do. It also saddens me that even skillpoints and skills do not matter much these days, all that matters is how many ISK people are willing to risk and how they get it (some get it from GTCs, others have inifite ISK from their T2 BPOs and some won't risk much because they have to grind for their ISK). At least in WoW most good gear has to be earned (it's BoP).
Inir Ishtori The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation	Posted - 2007.05.15 18:47:00 - [115] there is another quite big difference between pvp in both games which can be shown by a little example: an eve and a wow player release their pvp videos consisting of ganking undergeared and inexpirienced newbies. comments from wow community: "your video ist quite lame, you killed newbies only, show better opponents next time." eve community: "omg, you rock, your are SOOOO COOL" and much asslicking in general. this attitude is slowly changing, though.
Floppy Disk Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.15 19:14:00 - [116] WoW PvP 1) Nothing is at stake. No one owns anything. In EVE, you have the option to actually take and defend a region through pvp endevours. In WoW, BGs reset themselves, so really you accomplish nothing tangible by pvping other than aquiring better gear to kill more people with. No thought goes into PvP decisions. No social or diplomatic tactics are employed. There is no substance. Just pretty colors. 2) Combat is formulaic. Class vs class is immensely different than ship vs ship. You are limited to a very small number of class-based pvp options and there are literally no tactics involved at all. Run at enemies...... attempt to pwn them...... fail or succeed, rez at graveyard, run right back. No, you don't lose anything, but you don't gain anything either except for points and shiny gear you'll throw away soon anyway. 3) No honor. Your name and your reputation mean nothing in WoW. You are surrounded by sea of borderline functionally handicapped 11 year old keyboard mashers who constantly complain about why their faction sucks. In EVE people actually have to play the social game in order to advance their rep and the impact of their name when it is used in a public forum. In WoW this is a fruitless endevour since no one gives a crap. I'd take an 8 hour long op or camp in my ship of choice with my best guns loaded over standing next to some smelly Orc protecting a digital flag any day. For constant, repetative, mindless PvP, please purchase and install a copy of BF2 and have a whale of a time. Blizzard ftl.
Araxmas The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency	Posted - 2007.05.15 19:59:00 - [117] Originally by: Pan Crastus Edited by: Pan Crastus on 15/05/2007 18:24:08 I have to agree with the OP. Everyone who claims that WoW PVP is spamming 1-2 buttons has never played WoW enough to tell. PVP in WoW is much more tactical than in EVE, EVE PVP is decided by (in order of importance): - number and size of ships on each side - lag - skills Almost all fights in EVE are completely unbalanced, there is hardly any 1v1 (if you don't count ganking ratters, which is 1v1+NPCs) and only in the rare event that opposing fleets are nearly balanced in size and lag isn't the deciding factor, only then do tactics play a major role. Tactics being the fittings people chose mostly, since F1-F8 is still what most will do. It also saddens me that even skillpoints and skills do not matter much these days, all that matters is how many ISK people are willing to risk and how they get it (some get it from GTCs, others have infinite ISK from their T2 BPOs and some won't risk much because they have to grind for their ISK). At least in WoW most good gear has to be earned (it's BoP). I've played WoW for a long time, I play two mmo's and EVE is superiour before anyone asks. First your whining about there being no fair fights...Well sorry but real life is not like that, you don't go upto a mob of thugs and ask them to only attack you one at a time and drop their weapons as you do not have one, and WoW is never a fair fight, there is always someone with some huge gold wallet that can buy all the fancy bind on equp armour of million dollar enchants. Next you say that good items in WoW need to be earned, that is because WoW is item dependant, you get some nice little purple leather panties that increase your agility by some god forsaken amount, while on EvE you steal them from other people, or get lucky. Yet those 'epic' eve items will not save your ship, you can get your ass handed to you by T1 cruisers fitted with turret disruptors or other such nasties. Quote: "Tactics being the fittings people chose mostly, since F1-F8 is still what most will do." Yeah and in WoW sorry but you do spam buttons, you may have a certain combination of buttons or god forbid a potion or two but frankly thats all it consists of. In EvE the button pressing is replaced by tracking speed, ship speed, missile velocity, intertia, ECM, distuption, webbing and so on so forth. So you are correct it is the modules you choose...and in wow it is the items you choose...what is your point It is more tacticle and more threat. -------- Robbie Rotten left me
Phoenix Britannian Gallente Virtue Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.15 20:02:00 - [118] Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson Why? If anything I'd have thought it would encourage to get better at PVP so your losses are less. I played Ultima Online from the start, Mid-September 1997, Charter Edition, and I played it for 9 years. From my experience in the early years before the PvP- lands known as Trammel, and my experiences prowling between Trammel and the old PvP+ lands after that, having losses promotes 1 of 2 things in a player: 1. They seek to become the best PvPer out there, usually a solo PvPer. These people are the most dangerous to go up against because they are used to fighting against the odds or at even odds, and usually know what they are doing very well. They also usually have a sense of honor. They also don't like to waste time on those who have little to no chance of beating them, as it proves nothing to beat them. 2. They seek safety in numbers, and will only PvP if the odds are well enough in their favor, and usually run away if their target turns out to not be so easy as they first thought. These people wind up being the least skilled out there, because they have no idea how to get it done on their own, and will more than likely leave you in the dust before they try to learn how. They will attack anything that moves so long as it looks like it won't destroy them. Group player psychology can be broken up in much the same way, with the difference in the first one being that you have a group, small or moderate in size usually, that seeks out other groups which are stronger or equal in strength to take down, and the second group, usually very large in size, always seeking prey which is weaker than itself. - Phoenix Britannian
loperat	Posted - 2007.05.15 20:52:00 - [119] Originally by: Istoledat 0.0 pvp seems like a game of waiting at gates (for hours). This to me is not really pvp it's just waiting for the other team to get bored and say F-it or they go away. If they do say f-it and come through a gate then it's a turkey shoot lag fest for a few min. Low sec pvp gate camps, this is about as close as this game comes real heart pounding pvp. I only hope that putting lvl 5 missions in low sec will make these areas more populated and thus perpetuating this style of play. Empire no pvp there unless you have war decs. WoW you can pvp non stop all day long with targets all over the place. NON STOP ALL DAY LONG. I have gotten over 800 kills in that game in one day. That's a lot of action. The big difference is that Eve has a harsh penalty and wow has no penalty. So in the end what do we learn? Harsh penalty = Less pvp. Let the flaming commence It is clear that "Harsh penalty = Less pvp". No doubt about it. I got more than 200k kills in WOW and tbh i think "wow PVP" isnt Diablo or a fps where you spam 2 buttoms. Usually i use more than 10 skills every 1us1 fight, and i got around 40 or more hotkeys in my UI. I am sorry but EVE direct "fight style" is simple compared to WOW (you only have to activate the modules) I enjoy wow pvp because is straight,no laggy , fun and you need teamwork and skill. Battlegrounds are very funny and balanced; you only play against even numbers. 2us2, 3us3 , 5us5, 10us10, 15us15 or 40us40. In the other hand i also enjoy "EVE pvp" because it is complex, but it isnt the fight style (you only have to activate the modules if the lag let you), it is the pre-battle, fittings, the logistics,the intel, the knowdledge of the whole game, the gang tactics, the unfairness. Eve territorial conquest pvp and politics make this game special. The harsh penalty adds spice and adrenaline rush. So i get fun pvping in both games. Every game gives me a special taste of pvp. Sometimes i like drinking 50 good beers and in other ocasions i like a good cuban rum.
P Tang	Posted - 2007.05.15 21:11:00 - [120] play... on.. the.. test server? duh? everything cost 1isk pod killing is a crime there is no reward I think the main thing is that in WoW you can jump into a whole different game that is a whole new game in it's self. but EvE does have torniments. maybe have more of them. I mean people have them all of the time. but make them more offical? or like I said. play on the test server or play counter-strike while your skills train. EvE is a game with potenal, and you'll have to wait for the awesomness to hit
ForumPosterAlt	Posted - 2007.05.15 21:16:00 - [121] And I'm pretty sure that the largest capital fleet battle ever is going on right fking now.
Rakshassa	Posted - 2007.05.15 21:31:00 - [122] Originally by: Istoledat 0.0 pvp seems like a game of waiting at gates (for hours). This to me is not really pvp it's just waiting for the other team to get bored and say F-it or they go away. If they do say f-it and come through a gate then it's a turkey shoot lag fest for a few min. As opposed to waiting for some lower level to wander along so you can beat the crap out of him? well i dont know if it was just me but i never ganked anyone who wouldnt have a decent chance at beating me (lvl 60 some raid gear) and in lvl 60 BG eveyone is pretty well geared anyway. having just encountered my first gate camp (yay) by a drake and 2 other ships i didnt see becuase i was wasted so fast. I think gate camping rates even lower than wow honor grinding (which i didnt mind) atleast u still had to work to kill ppl. What satisifaction do ppl get pwning a 3 day old destoryer pilot who is warping in, whos ship costs like 1m isk to fit and buy, i mean come on thats like a lvl 60 killing lvl 5's lol.
Lynal Gallente Peregrin Avionics	Posted - 2007.05.15 22:06:00 - [123] Originally by: Gariuys EVE PvP has meaning, but I do agree that there are other games where PvP can be enjoyable as well. But on a completely different level. the adrenaline levels I get when engaged in PvP in EVE is so much better then any other PvP that it makes it not so bad that it doesn't all that often. And for 800 backstabs a day there's other games. ;-D bingo... i still remember the av rep grind back in the day when having a tuf was actually nice. long story short... after spending 6 hours in the same instance... killing the same exact people over and over again, then realizing i would have to do that for another week to hit exalted kinda hit it home for me just what the pvp grind in WoW was. 2000 kills in a single day, 500 deaths and it just wasnt worth it. no challenge... last i checked you didn't have to pvp in order to get the rewards in WoW pvp... dunno, haven't *****d the WoW forums in awhile, but is there still the issues with horde honor leechers in the AV tunnel?
Lynal Gallente Peregrin Avionics	Posted - 2007.05.15 22:11:00 - [124] Originally by: Topaz Skydiver Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 14/05/2007 23:52:02 I prefer wars that have a reason and are used as in instrument of power over arena-style pvp. Arena-style pvp has no impact except collecting points. A victory and loss doesn't mean much, if hundreds of similar victories and losses appear everyday in that game. I prefer a tough war, where the winner can chose, if he says 'good fight' or doesn't like his enemy and rubs it in. Have to add: I've also enjoyed playing quake and planetside. But quake was more for the quick fix. A few hours just running around killing people, before they kill you, can be fun. But not every day. it all just comes down to EvE being sooo much more visceral than WoW. everyone remembers the GHSC incident way back when... at the time i was still an avid WoW'er... and there was some forum drama about someone ninja looting some hides in MC... someone posted the bit about GHSC on our forums as a comparison... and i was just blown away. figured a game that allowed that sort of thing to happen would be able to give me the challenge and rush in pvp that was lacking in WoW. tbh, i got more out of watching the pvp vids from high end players than from pvping on my own, a game should never get to that point.
Beowulf Scheafer Gallente Hell Hounds	Posted - 2007.05.15 22:30:00 - [125] Originally by: Ashaz wow has poledancing elfs and gnomes with pink hair. what else is there to day? oh. and you'd get permabanned for most things that is considdered fair play in eve. i can assume this (shame on me playing wow). first ban is several hours, then several days, etc... i am permabanned for harsh language and promoting corpsecamping against a chinafarmer in the local derivate (what was very effectivly, after some time even some allianceguys that were able to attack the farmer right away helped out). unfortunately the chinafarmer was of my own faction, so it was an exploit, aswell as scamming people for gold via tradewindow... all in all the 6th ban is the last.
VicturusTeSaluto	Posted - 2007.05.16 00:16:00 - [126] Too bad that WoW is extremely effeminate(nice way of putting it IMO) and has magic and elves etc... I would never try to compare something like that to a game that has actual guns and things that do not involve fruity stuff like spellcasting.
Istoledat	Posted - 2007.05.16 00:55:00 - [127] Edited by: Istoledat on 16/05/2007 01:00:15 Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto Too bad that WoW is extremely effeminate(nice way of putting it IMO) and has magic and elves etc... I would never try to compare something like that to a game that has actual guns and things that do not involve fruity stuff like spellcasting. I just hope low sec gets more action because it's getting stale around here.... We need more regular small engagements, not just gate ganks. perhaps they shouldn't flat out copy the BG idea from wow but rather create a spin off. Something to help noobs (like me) get more into pvp without loosing a bunch of time. I bet it would be more popular then you might think
Arron S Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.05.16 01:10:00 - [128] I herd Hello Kitty Island Adventure has the best pvp around.
heheheh Singularity. The Cartel.	Posted - 2007.05.16 01:55:00 - [129] Originally by: Rakshassa having played wow pvp and not eve pvp i cnt give a balanced opinion but from my impression of eve pvp is there isnt much objectivity to it. in WoW you pvp(ed) for honor and ranks and reputation and fun and the penalty for death was very low and some classes were incredably adaptive and required multiple techiques to win in pvp (See Druids.) hyrbid gear allowed such classes to be a jake of all trades master of none which in pvp was one of the best ways to be. ''gate camping'' did happen in the form of instance camping when you were going to raid. Now in Eve the pvp system does seem very odd, its very gank based it seems (all the gate camping) theres some mission ganking ive read about but again its very gank based. there seems to be very little objective in eve pvp appart from war decs and fighting over 0.0 space but this doesnt seem to be done much as the large allaicens can crush pretty much anyone who tries to take their space. the gank mentality comes down to the very harsh penalties for dieing in eve. loosing ur ship and possibly ur pod is expensive at least in terms to the wow death pentalties. battle grounds may not be a bad idea for eve, you need to que in stations, and you fight for story objectives, penalties for death are reduced in some way. for a pvp focused game eve does little to make pvp have objectives. Get a clue, The biggest objective is in eve by a longshot, or didnt you realize you can take peoples stuff ?
Rakshassa	Posted - 2007.05.16 06:30:00 - [130] great killing people for loot...and isk...just like everything else in eve, soverinty wars seem a hell of alot more fun. the problem with eve pvp being stale as some1 said is 1.gate camps, people wont risk going into 0.0 becuase they may be poped before they have even had a chance to fight back, wheres the fun in that? 2.Low population,large environment. Basically WoW has more players in smaller areas and well known questing/grinding spots. Eve has a vastly smaller population and a vastly bigger environment so there will be less encounters between players. anyone agree with that?
Valea Silpha Death Monkey's With Knives Gods of Night and Day	Posted - 2007.05.16 07:23:00 - [131] Whoever above said that WoW PvP is SOOOO much more complicated than eve pvp needs to be shown some real fightin'. Just because there aren't 40 hot keys needed and a trillion million spells to cast doesn't make it simple. In 1 vs 1, if both players are good and not just someone ripping up a newbie, theres a lot of important decisions to make, maneuvering in the right way, staying out of range, making sure you can still hit him while your moving around... all important things to think about. I find that about one fight in every three brings with it a nasty surprise, be it faction webbage or something that JUST WON'T DIE. Things change really really fast, and sometimes being surprised means getting slapped about then spit out. Thats proper fighting. Then theres BIG fights. You think people commanding 100+ fleets is simple ? Be in the right place at the right time with the right ships or loose tens of billions of isk ... Thats not at all a pressuring situation. And then there are the intricacies of combat. If you want to splat someone, you'll normally have to work for it. I'm sure a most everyone who's PvPed a fair amount knows the problems involved in trying to bait someone into engaging, then hoping an inty survives long enough for you to pile on top of him... Its not easy. Not by a long shot. And this doesn't take into account any kind of territorial schenanigans, sieging, capital ships and so forth. Its not simple, and its not easy to do it well. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Amber Hael Gallente G-Nos Industries	Posted - 2007.05.16 13:14:00 - [132] Originally by: Rakshassa bla bla bla new post. bla bla bla new post. bla bla bla new post. etc I think for a guy who doesnt have any pvp experience in eve (as you said), you have an awful lot of opinions. Listen to the players who have played both wow AND eve pvp plz. Like myself ;P Glad to say, i quit wow a long time ago. Pointless pvp. Eve PvP > WoW PvP Eve PvE < WoW PvE <-- why i like eve aswell ;) Oh and if you want eve battlegrounds... as ppl have said... testserver. Newblettos.
heheheh Singularity. The Cartel.	Posted - 2007.05.16 13:59:00 - [133] Edited by: heheheh on 16/05/2007 13:57:34 Quote: Yeah that's a lot of action for nothing. 5 kills in EVE have more meaning than 800 kills in WoW. I disaggree, 1 kill is just as important as 800 kills. you can take their loot for gods sake !!!! in wow the only penalty is you have to walk back. Also in wow every decent PVP player has the same cardboard cut out build and gear for their class, there are so many more possibilities for your setup, tactics and what sort of pvp you engage in then there are in wow. These facts ive mentioned alone make EVE PVP farsuperooir to wow, yes you can get more of it, but its much much worse.
heheheh Singularity. The Cartel.	Posted - 2007.05.16 14:04:00 - [134] And also id rather fly a spaceship than control a homoerotic cartoon character anyday.
Joachim Winter Gallente Smoking Hillbillys The Volition Cult	Posted - 2007.05.16 14:27:00 - [135] WOW hurts my eyes, really anyone who thinks that game has good art direction needs their head examined. -------------- "If fishes were wishes we'd all cast nets" --------------
Ikasu Gallente The Durandal Organization The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.05.16 14:33:00 - [136] My problem is there is no Risk V Reward in WoW. it's generic and the PVP is extremely uninspired. Even Cabal, the classic "You just respawn" kind of MMO has a bigger penalty as PKing can kill your rep and NPCs wont sell to you and, of course, other players may avoid you. Whilst on the other hand, getting someone to accept a dual wont have the same negative impact. In WoW. Die, respawn, walk back, kill some people, die, respawn, walk back. In Eve. Save for months to buy your first battleship, spend another few months on a T II setup, engage in an epic battle to save your isk, you implants, and to protect your very digital life. In Cabal. Murderers get screwed over.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.16 15:23:00 - [137] Originally by: Joachim Winter WOW hurts my eyes, really anyone who thinks that game has good art direction needs their head examined. QFT: There are a couple of funny videos over on U-tube....that makes the graphics less sickening. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Natalia Fachiri Minmatar Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.05.16 17:52:00 - [138] I am sure it has been said before: because you can loose your ship and items any timeyou un**** in eve, PvP has meaning in the game, as it can impact the game. This in turn leads to things like blobs, gatecamps and so on, wich is minimizing your own risks of loss. WoW on the other hand has no death penalty besides about 1 minute time to run back to your corpse. The only real reason for PvP in WoW is fun and the only reward is depriving another player or players of useful game time by killing them, forcing them to corpse run and rebuff/heal. And even that has been removed for the most part, by PvE servers and instances PvP areas. These areas remove the last pretense of meaingful PvP. I know many people who PvPed grudgingly in WoW until they had reward X (some dagger or armor or whatever) and then never PvPed again. I for one vastly prefer EvE PvP. In EvE, planning matters, mistakes matter, wins matter and losses matter. That evry lost ship is something you are not getting back promotes thoughtful PvP and not head on no plan free for alls. If you are good at PvP in EvE, and find more people who are, you can change the face of the game, make a name for yourself. In WoW, this will never happen, in WoW you only get mentioned at all if you exell at PvE content.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.16 18:16:00 - [139] In WoW, you PvP to blow off steam... In EVE, you PvP to get to the point of needing to blow off steam... I'll only say in defense of WoW PvP, at least in the AV battlefield, dying carries a modest penalty in the overall scheme of things. If you die on flag defense, the objective is lost. It might not seem like much, but it was a BIG thing for us not to lose those towers as we hit Frostwolf Keep. Not a lasting thing, but after pushing the line forward for an hour, hearing that horn go off as the building burst into flames sucked. I don't remember an AV I was ever in where we weren't cussing through clenched teeth when the Horde flipped a graveyard. The loss isn't personal in the sense of monetary or equipment loss, but knowing your side didn't come out that much farther ahead is annoying. There were a few battles we fought where we did run the board on the Horde, not losing any structures of our own, and those felt pretty awesome. There were nights I played stealth Paladin, supporting a group of four Rogues as a healer, assaulting the Frostwolf Towers while the main lines were still back in midfield that were worth a few giggles of satisfaction. As far as World PvP, the only time it was ever worth a giggle was when I did solo raids into Orgrimmar. I wish I hadn't lost the screenshot I made of the mission for the Darkmoon Faire I picked up in downtown Orgrimmar as a human Paladin. I sat in that city many nights, on the roofs, watching the world go by around me. It didn't feel like a war so much, as it did like a really odd sporting event. Like Photon or Laser Tag with virtual melee weapons. It was fun, for what it was, and in its own way, very enjoyable. For me to say EVE > WoW or vice versa is kinda pointless, because it really isn't the same thing. This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Exortius Amarrus The Clearwater Society Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.16 18:24:00 - [140] Originally by: Istoledat 0.0 pvp seems like a game of waiting at gates (for hours). This to me is not really pvp it's just waiting for the other team to get bored and say F-it or they go away. If they do say f-it and come through a gate then it's a turkey shoot lag fest for a few min. Low sec pvp gate camps, this is about as close as this game comes real heart pounding pvp. I only hope that putting lvl 5 missions in low sec will make these areas more populated and thus perpetuating this style of play. Empire no pvp there unless you have war decs. WoW you can pvp non stop all day long with targets all over the place. NON STOP ALL DAY LONG. I have gotten over 800 kills in that game in one day. That's a lot of action. The big difference is that Eve has a harsh penalty and wow has no penalty. So in the end what do we learn? Harsh penalty = Less pvp. Let the flaming commence You should be playing CS:S, not EVE or WoW. WoW PvP is not sustainable, sitting in a lame BG for hours and hours is great and all, until you realize it's never going to change or get any better. EVE PvP is constantly changing, and every battle is different. Speaking as a former High Warlord (Orc Shaman, Earthen Ring server, name was Massif), WoW PvP sucks. EVE PvP > WoW PvP Why? Because everything you do in EVE is PvP. You building a ship? That's PvP, you're competing with other builders, or you're supplying your mates with the tools of war. Ever seen a 100v100 fight in a WoW BG? I didn't think so. So there's your answer. -50dkp to myself for posting in a WoW thread, my penance will be another 4 years of enjoying killing things in EVE. ------------------------
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.05.16 20:00:00 - [141] Originally by: Araxmas Originally by: Pan Crastus Edited by: Pan Crastus on 15/05/2007 18:24:08 I have to agree with the OP. Everyone who claims that WoW PVP is spamming 1-2 buttons has never played WoW enough to tell. PVP in WoW is much more tactical than in EVE, EVE PVP is decided by (in order of importance): - number and size of ships on each side - lag - skills Almost all fights in EVE are completely unbalanced, there is hardly any 1v1 (if you don't count ganking ratters, which is 1v1+NPCs) and only in the rare event that opposing fleets are nearly balanced in size and lag isn't the deciding factor, only then do tactics play a major role. Tactics being the fittings people chose mostly, since F1-F8 is still what most will do. It also saddens me that even skillpoints and skills do not matter much these days, all that matters is how many ISK people are willing to risk and how they get it (some get it from GTCs, others have infinite ISK from their T2 BPOs and some won't risk much because they have to grind for their ISK). At least in WoW most good gear has to be earned (it's BoP). I've played WoW for a long time, I play two mmo's and EVE is superiour before anyone asks. First your whining about there being no fair fights...Well sorry but real life is not like that, you don't go upto a mob of thugs and ask them to only attack you one at a time and drop their weapons as you do not have one, and WoW is never a fair fight, there is always someone with some huge gold wallet that can buy all the fancy bind on equp armour of million dollar enchants. Next you say that good items in WoW need to be earned, that is because WoW is item dependant, you get some nice little purple leather panties that increase your agility by some god forsaken amount, while on EvE you steal them from other people, or get lucky. Yet those 'epic' eve items will not save your ship, you can get your ass handed to you by T1 cruisers fitted with turret disruptors or other such nasties. That's the real thing. When I undock, I risk a bit of PvP. Some days I go looking for it. I then have a choice. Do I take my 'uber' gear out? Do I take a faction/officer fitted CNR, and go wtfpwning. And ... it _is_ a good ship. Fit a Corvus with Officer gear, and I reckon that ship'll handily take on good odds. 2:1? 3:1? Don't know, but it _does_ perform better. That's what I like about EVE - the loss cost, means that there's _always_ a postive reason to be selective about what you're using. An expensive fit is better, but you have to decide if it's worth the difference. Given that you might lose it in the fighting, is it _really_ worth flying a 200mil ship + fittings, up against a 20mil one? And of course, if I do lose it, then I'll be down a ship, and have to acquire another one somehow. That's important too, IMO. It turns EVE into strategy beyond the 'gank, die, gank, win' fighting, it means I have to consider available resources and supply lines. Shrug at the end of the day, EVE is a strategy game. You have resource management, strategic options for ships, fittings and engagements. You have to build resources, to replace your toys, and find a balance between doing that and fighting. (I daresay there's some PvPers who can fund themselves, but personally I find it a net loss)
Postman Pain	Posted - 2007.05.16 20:11:00 - [142] EvE PvP is intense, with bigger losses but doesn't happen as often, or as fairly, as most would like. WoW PvP is still intense, it has little loss, but is more dependant on individual skill as opposed to numbers and ship composition, like in EVE. It also happens all the time. EvE has the blob warfare because more numbers almost always means more victories. Solo PvP (with one account) in EvE is on it's last legs, too. It's nigh impossible to go into 0.0 solo and find a good fight without running into the blob and getting ganked.
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.16 21:47:00 - [143] I was going to write some sort of argument but changed my mind, 4 pages of argueing which has better pvp wow or eve ... on eve forums... None of them are better its a matter of taste, end of story. /me moves to next thread Originally by: Rawne Karrde PVP in EvE is consentual, you agree to it when you login. If you don't like it you're in the wrong game.
mama guru Gallente Corp 1 Allstars	Posted - 2007.05.16 21:55:00 - [144] Originally by: Istoledat 0.0 pvp seems like a game of waiting at gates (for hours). This to me is not really pvp it's just waiting for the other team to get bored and say F-it or they go away. If they do say f-it and come through a gate then it's a turkey shoot lag fest for a few min. Low sec pvp gate camps, this is about as close as this game comes real heart pounding pvp. I only hope that putting lvl 5 missions in low sec will make these areas more populated and thus perpetuating this style of play. Empire no pvp there unless you have war decs. WoW you can pvp non stop all day long with targets all over the place. NON STOP ALL DAY LONG. I have gotten over 800 kills in that game in one day. That's a lot of action. The big difference is that Eve has a harsh penalty and wow has no penalty. So in the end what do we learn? Harsh penalty = Less pvp. Let the flaming commence Your first EVE pvp experience>your first WOW experience. -YOU ARE NOW READING MY SIGNATURE- EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Marquis Dean Demise and Vestige 9th Fleet	Posted - 2007.05.16 22:02:00 - [145] I haven't read any of this thread apart from the title, but I feel I must add that i've barely played Eve now for about a month, because it's so damn boring. I've cycled through a string of corps offering good PvP and lots of pew pew, ended up with me being the only person logged in, ever. For the first time in about 3 months me (Deimos) and my alt (Pilgrim) went out into losec for some pew pew by ourselves, we arrive, we engage something at a belt, 20 seconds later we're blobbed into nonexistence by about 30 people. From them arriving to my ships dying, I get about 10 frames. Wasn't that fun? Do you know where you don't get blobs? Where you can choose the time and place of a fight? Where you don't have to spend a week grinding just to get your the value of your stuff back? World of Warcraft. I know you all clamour about how important it is that 'my actions make a difference' and 'wahoo non-consensual PvP', but when every single time I try to PvP in this game, I get a fleet of 15+ landing on my face, what the hell is the fcking point at all. So yeah, you can tell me to go back to WoW, because I am. It's WAY more fun. --- Originally by:* korrey Marquis I have to admit, without you there wouldn't be much laughter in these forums.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.05.16 22:04:00 - [146] Edited by: Pan Crastus on 16/05/2007 22:04:00 Originally by: Valea Silpha Then theres BIG fights. You think people commanding 100+ fleets is simple ? Be in the right place at the right time with the right ships or loose tens of billions of isk ... Thats not at all a pressuring situation. Such comments make me laugh. There are no BIG fights in EVE, anything bigger than 30v30 or so is currently determined by lag and whoever is positioned to take advantage of it. My last large-ish fight was in XZH against Goonswarm and when I had to fly around there for 10 minutes without seeing any ships I realized that EVE doesn't support fleet battles. After that I've been in several smaller engagements (less than 300 ships anyway) and it was much worse. Read any of the recent battle reports about large fights and you'll see that half the people are complaining about lag and how it made their experience miserable. If you are seriously trying to tell me that this kind of PVP is somehow enjoyable or that it requires skill and coordination, I'll laugh in your face. :-P PS. I also realize that there is some sort of peer pressure here on EVE-O that makes people try to look "badass" by saying how they need real guns and risk vs. reward, when in reality they hate losing ships to lag, blobs and people who buy ISK off ebay...
Denian Crow	Posted - 2007.05.16 22:13:00 - [147] WoW has more PvP but EVE has more and worse PK. Why? It's all about the disparity between death penalties, I believe. People blob for protection, and to a large degree its a numbers game. Sure, Quality counts, but it's not the be-all end-all. On a side note, the wicked death penalties here probably help foster metagaimng in all it's unpalatable forms, for the same reason. By it's very nature this means solo unfriendly. Welcome to huge ass Alliances online. Most everyone else is either a slave/puppet, a hangers on, Empire hugger or future death-mail. Before I learned all this, Alliance was where I went to get SOME sort of PvP action with SOME chance of success. But now? Meh...gate ganks, blobs, caps, supercaps, being a drone to some FC, and it's all about the gank which is either boring or frustrating, depending. Personally, I have lost any real interest in anything Alliance since a Devs actions (and the reaction to it) have transformed the political face of TQ. That's just the cold, nasty truth too, however-much people want to describe it differently. So I went to something else, Empire hugger/ trader. shrugs

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