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Time for elite bs (tech II) ?

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Macmuelli Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.05.16 22:31:00 - [1] With all this number of Capitalships Alliance bring into fights. + the incoming Cynorsul/ jump brigde disrupting mods, who will be defentiv difficult to kill. Is it time for them now? Coud Elite bs (tech II) be fair chance for Players giving fights against strong allainces and there numbers?. ?? No Bpos of them, only invention work. breg mac PS: This is a serious Question so Plz keep this treat free from flaming. "Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
Billy Sastard Amarr Life. Universe. Everything. Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.16 22:34:00 - [2] No. -=^=-
Templer Relleg Exit 13 Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.16 22:37:00 - [3] They are designing the Tech 2 BS. But no info yet.
CaptainSeafort Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.05.16 22:38:00 - [4] ccp have looked at the idea, tooled around, and decided they have no niche currently. wait a bit "Planets and moons no longer hitch rides on player ships. Their towel privileges have been revoked." HHGG Lives on in EVE!
Macmuelli Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.05.16 22:38:00 - [5] Edited by: Macmuelli on 16/05/2007 22:37:52 a bit more then " No " woud be nice " but hell " capitals limted to .4 and lower so limit them in there role..? @cptseaford.. My Paitence is endless as an "old Fisher(angler dont know the correct english word)" so waiting is no problem "Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
Scynscapaene Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.16 22:40:00 - [6] They've said they want to find a role for T2 bs' because they dont want them to be "solopwnmobiles" :) I 'imagine' they will be a big gang bonus ship (alot better then CS')
Jacob Castillo Caldari Copperhead Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.16 22:44:00 - [7] Give them awsome resistences but the DPS of a wet paper towel and I will be happy. Otherwise, no.
Macmuelli Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.05.16 22:44:00 - [8] Working against cynorsul/ jumpbrigde disrupting in systems coud be a role.. like a " little" siege modus against the anchored disruptors? "Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2007.05.16 22:45:00 - [9] no. not as a uber dmg/tanker like a command ship (combat 1) or HAC
Billy Sastard Amarr Life. Universe. Everything. Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.16 22:47:00 - [10] I am sorry, I was just answering your initial question. There was no qualifier in the initial post which required a certain amount of explanation to be provided for the answer, you just asked a simple question: "Is it time for them now?" And I replied with a simple answer. No flame involved, just simple and to the point. -=^=-
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.05.16 22:47:00 - [11] Can you say Titan Hunters?
Aldir Rundal Gallente The Order of Chivalry Nex Eternus	Posted - 2007.05.16 22:48:00 - [12] Originally by: Billy Sastard No. qft Recruiting
Macmuelli Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.05.16 22:57:00 - [13] Edited by: Macmuelli on 16/05/2007 23:01:03 Originally by: Billy Sastard I am sorry, I was just answering your initial question. There was no qualifier in the initial post which required a certain amount of explanation to be provided for the answer, you just asked a simple question: "Is it time for them now?" And I replied with a simple answer. No flame involved, just simple and to the point. I think "If" there is no role atm for them, actualy it is No time for them now. My question is more for the incoming things like the large numbers of capital pilots / system wide disruting of cynorsul fields and chances to kill this mods etc... " To the Question. Is it time for NOW" the Word " Now" i mean it not tomorrow more with revelation 2 / 3 "Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
CrestoftheStars Perkone	Posted - 2007.05.16 23:25:00 - [14] YEARRRRRRR!!!!!! if we are this luky, the t2 bs should game, i mean as you say with the amount of cap ships and the titans out there, etc there should be a smaller ship usefull to take these out, like all the others. t2frig for cruiser. t2 cruiser for bc t2 bc for battleship. we need the t2 bs for fighting the cap ships ;) :D ___________________________________________ When i was a child i thought like a child i acted like a child and i spoke like a child. But when I became an adult I laid away childish things.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp	Posted - 2007.05.16 23:48:00 - [15] Edited by: Plutoinum on 16/05/2007 23:48:08 Give them a role that doesn't make tech-1 battleships useless, then they can come (without uber dps and uber-resists). If they came as bs-sized command ships, then they would be the new veteran pwn-mobile in pvp. Besides that number one choice to own in PvE. A big veteran alliance has probably no problem to get 50 chars or more into such a ship. I'm no friend of the goons, but I think it would shift pvp too much towards high skillpoint players.
Jane Spondogolo NoobWaffe	Posted - 2007.05.17 00:17:00 - [16] Part of why everyones a bit down on the cap ship focus of the game at the moment is the stupidly high training time to get in one that seems to prohibit any player under 2 years old from really engaging in 0.0 politics at the moment (especially when the changes in the current 0.0 climate may well be permanant and are happening in real time). Problem with T2 battleships is likely they will take just as long to train up and be somewhat as expensive (perhaps). Even command ships are still a damn long haul for a lot of players (perhaps a year into your first well trained hac, then 6 months into a command ship). Add on to that T2 battleships need T2 guns (perhaps 4-5 months to use them well and train t2 larges, although caldari get it a bit easier here) and all the assorted T2 modules. Its not really a full solution. Personally I think CCP ought scale back the role of cap ships, and fix pos warfare somehow. But cap ship guys might disagree with me there . I doubt anyone disagrees that pos warfare blows goats however. ______ Unrepentant Southern Federation Cheerleader.
Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.17 00:19:00 - [17] Make them anti-caps ships. Let them mount XL weapons(a full rack of say 4-5) with massive reduction to cap use and tracking speed, then toss on a massive damage bonus. I envision each one doing equal or greater damage than a sieged dread, with the same tracking, but much less tank(standard BS tank with t2 resists).
Jane Spondogolo NoobWaffe	Posted - 2007.05.17 00:36:00 - [18] Originally by: Gamesguy Make them anti-caps ships. Let them mount XL weapons(a full rack of say 4-5) with massive reduction to cap use and tracking speed, then toss on a massive damage bonus. I envision each one doing equal or greater damage than a sieged dread, with the same tracking, but much less tank(standard BS tank with t2 resists). I half reckon letting battleships fit siege modules would pretty much do most of the trick. ______ Unrepentant Southern Federation Cheerleader.
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.05.17 00:40:00 - [19] Edited by: LUH 3471 on 17/05/2007 00:41:07 i want my t2 megathron with hac resists and 8 lowslots now. if it turns out to be too uber, give it some stupid gangbonus instead of a second damage bonus.
Senite Ascani Gallente Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.17 00:44:00 - [20] No "I'm Senite Ascani, and I wholeheartedly endorse this product and/or service."
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.05.17 01:08:00 - [21] T2 BS = shield and armor resists halfway between T1 and T2, gang bonues better than command ships, half the number of guns as a normal BS but able to fit an ECM device that halfs one type of shield and armor resist of its target. Bet that would diswade a few people from getting capitals. -
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.17 01:36:00 - [22] They're already doing them, they're called flagships and the skins look sexy. Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.05.17 01:46:00 - [23] yeah as long as they are balanced
Khel'tar	Posted - 2007.05.17 01:59:00 - [24] An anti-capital ship short of dreads would be awesome. There's definately a niche there, how you'd fill it without making dreads pointless is another question. -- Acura, the best stats. Pity it had to be caldari. Gallente 4tw.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.17 03:02:00 - [25] MMMMMM!! Tech II Rokh with 350km sniping..../drool This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.17 03:57:00 - [26] I think it would be a good idea for them to be like small cap ships. They should be designed for 'softening up a pos' before the dreads and other caps come in. Something that can take out the 'cyno jammer' modules on the poses. And that can tank the guns for abit. It could also be something that could have a specially ability to take out super caps. It should have an exceptionally slow locktime as to make it almost useless in normal fleet battles. And it should move slower as well. Fill the 'destroyer niche' between battleship and capitalship.
Alexi Borizkova Caldari New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.05.17 06:25:00 - [27] I want a ishukone skinned scorpion that projects a cloaking field for its squad. And the other races can get something similiar, I suppose.
ReePeR McAllem The Carebear Stare	Posted - 2007.05.17 07:09:00 - [28] lol imagine a t2 abaddon. Shaweeeet! Seriously though, if they do make t2 bs. It will make faction BS inept. Also for the suspected price of a t2 bs one could fly a carrier for this said price. I'd really like to see how it would work. pff nah But would love to see a T2 Abaddon. But up middle finger to T2 Domi. That'd be nasty. I think the T2 BS should be something different to like a HAC is for a cruiser. I'm thinking more along the lines of a 'Fleet Command Ship" TM. FCS Ftw!!! Make it like a regular ass BS with extra slots for gang warefare mods. blah blah. And yeah a type of fleet cloak array. Yesh My two pence. Grah! time for the morning coffee!
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.17 07:15:00 - [29] the gap between capships and battleships is currently too big. T2 BS would fit that role perfectly. And CCP lost all credibility about the no 'solopwnmobiles' when they introduced motherships. And a T2 BS would still get ripped apart by capitals anyway. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Ash Vincetti Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.05.17 11:37:00 - [30] I would like to see t2 BSes fill the logistics gap that t2 cruiser logistic ships never filled properly. Logistics ships (sometimes) work in small engagements, and even then, they die prematurely. There simply is'nt a viable niche for logistics atm. This would be the ideal role for a t2 BS. (command ships are tough enough already. Either toughen up the logistics, or create a t2 BS variant that's able to keep up with the damage.) -----
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.05.17 11:49:00 - [31] An anti-capital BS would be nice, but I'd be intrigued to see how the mechanics would work so that they arent completely overpowered. Like, I'd expect a T1 battleship to take out a T2 BS if that was the case,, which kinda doesnt make sense,, (though i suppose a T1 frig can take out a T2 covops frig)
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.17 11:52:00 - [32] I dont see why people are so afraid tbh of a BS with HAC like resists and heavy firepower. That is not what makes a ship overpowered. If you look at the overpowered ships, there is one overwhelming cause: the ability to escape. A vagabond is fearsome because of its speed, much more than anything else. If I would make a T2 BS, I'd just give them HAC-like resists, twice the HP of a current BS, plenty of bonuses on damage/rate of fire etc, and then make their base speed 50m/s and make their agility little better than that of a freighter. There, balanced. Yes, it will kill most non-T2 BS in a 1v1. But jump it with 2 tech 1 BS and a HAC and its not gonna escape and its gonna die. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
ToxicFire Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.05.17 12:05:00 - [33] I think theres been enough leaked little tid bits to show they are in some form of development current, on a step up from the command ship role, plus there are alot of unused T2 BS models in the db that will save some time on building. Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
Kerdrak Amarr 3B Legio IX Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.05.17 12:12:00 - [34] Abaddon with T2 res... mmmm... ________________________________________
Lrrp Minmatar Gallente Mercantile Exchange	Posted - 2007.05.17 12:14:00 - [35] Yes T2 BS as anti Cap ships is a great idea. But then mission gankers will love them also. Gate campers will chortle with glee. Hi sec freighter gankers will thumb their nose at ccp. Me thinks certain restrictions must needs be looked at under light from yon window....
Nymos Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.17 12:16:00 - [36] bah can we boost small stuff again please instead of centering pvp around BSs and cap ships? all that kali's hitpoint boost did was make cruisers obsolete. t2 frigs can tackle, yea, but it takes ages to kill anything in them now. so frigs are crap as well. battlecruisers? might as well just fly a battleship with more firepower and tankability. -- Every time a carebear dies an angel gets their wings (murder one)
Demarcus Gainah	Posted - 2007.05.17 12:26:00 - [37] Honestly- I think that a simple BS with similar base firepower, higher resists, longer range, and larger drone bay with a siege mode that lets them do enough DPS with enough track so that a few could take on a moving dread/ carrier would fill a much needed gap between dreads and regular battleships. Just nerf their base tracking like with destroyers and you've got the perfect in between for BS/ cap ship. Just give them a separate class to train for and require BS V (IE recon ships, destroyers) and you've got the PERFECT in between for cap ships and battleships without taking anything away from the smaller ships.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.17 13:25:00 - [38] Originally by: Ash Vincetti I would like to see t2 BSes fill the logistics gap that t2 cruiser logistic ships never filled properly. Logistics ships (sometimes) work in small engagements, and even then, they die prematurely. There simply is'nt a viable niche for logistics atm. This would be the ideal role for a t2 BS. (command ships are tough enough already. Either toughen up the logistics, or create a t2 BS variant that's able to keep up with the damage.) Or, make logistic ships useful in fleets. Like they are supposed to be.
CrestoftheStars Perkone	Posted - 2007.05.17 13:30:00 - [39] Originally by: Jmanis Catharg An anti-capital BS would be nice, but I'd be intrigued to see how the mechanics would work so that they arent completely overpowered. Like, I'd expect a T1 battleship to take out a T2 BS if that was the case,, which kinda doesnt make sense,, (though i suppose a T1 frig can take out a T2 covops frig) O.o .... hehe no they can't... not if the pilots are equelent in rl skills... the T2 bs should not be taken out 1v1 with a t1 bs.. but a 1v1 cap should ofcause pwn the t2bs. all the other t2 ships don't get killed to anything 1 seize lower then them... actually nothing bigger get killed by something smaller of same T-lvl. so unless they fix that the bs t2 shouldn't the the exception ___________________________________________ When i was a child i thought like a child i acted like a child and i spoke like a child. But when I became an adult I laid away childish things.
CrestoftheStars Perkone	Posted - 2007.05.17 13:35:00 - [40] Originally by: Lrrp Yes T2 BS as anti Cap ships is a great idea. But then mission gankers will love them also. Gate campers will chortle with glee. Hi sec freighter gankers will thumb their nose at ccp. Me thinks certain restrictions must needs be looked at under light from yon window.... well these problems is not the bs t2 problem.. its a mechanic concord problem... way to do this is: highsec, you are permanent jammed(so you can't lock a target, because of concords non fight in highsec unlessyour in war). in low sec, sentry guns should give 10 times the dps they do now and focusing there fire at the largest target, letting them break any tank VERY fast. now we only have 0.0 but well... 0.0 is the free land of the gate camp so leave it. ___________________________________________ When i was a child i thought like a child i acted like a child and i spoke like a child. But when I became an adult I laid away childish things.
Piotr Anatolev Gallente The Geriatrics	Posted - 2007.05.17 13:38:00 - [41] if there s not going to be a t2 Domi, it s about time they start looking at a faction Domi. The black Core Port Admirals of the Serpentis fleet, please. +1 additional Drone Control Unit I per level and the base bonuses from the original Domi.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.17 13:42:00 - [42] Perhaps they could be platforms for anti-capital weapon shields, large shield bubbles to protect fleets inside of them. Think Greek army phalanx style, defensive shields interlocked to protect combat units behind. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Protectories Itto-Ryu Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.05.17 14:07:00 - [43] Originally by: Winterblink Perhaps they could be platforms for anti-capital weapon shields, large shield bubbles to protect fleets inside of them. Think Greek army phalanx style, defensive shields interlocked to protect combat units behind. Yea maybe like a 10second invulnerability bubble that gives the folk inside time to warp out, if say a huge enemy cap fleet jumps in on them
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.17 14:11:00 - [44] Originally by: Protectories Originally by: Winterblink Perhaps they could be platforms for anti-capital weapon shields, large shield bubbles to protect fleets inside of them. Think Greek army phalanx style, defensive shields interlocked to protect combat units behind. Yea maybe like a 10second invulnerability bubble that gives the folk inside time to warp out, if say a huge enemy cap fleet jumps in on them Not even timed, say a shielding field that's hardened like crazy to anything other than EM damage (Amarr useful again?). Or maybe a particular damage type depending on the race of ship, kind of like how DDDs dispense a particular damage type. I guess sort of like a small-scale mobile POS shield for fleets, but with a deliberate weakness? Could be a bad idea. shrug warp drive active \| nature vraie
Nos Gainah	Posted - 2007.05.17 14:13:00 - [45] Originally by: Protectories Originally by: Winterblink Perhaps they could be platforms for anti-capital weapon shields, large shield bubbles to protect fleets inside of them. Think Greek army phalanx style, defensive shields interlocked to protect combat units behind. Yea maybe like a 10second invulnerability bubble that gives the folk inside time to warp out, if say a huge enemy cap fleet jumps in on them Honestly, I don't think this is really a bad idea for a ship, but it's been said before- that really wouldn't fall under the idea of a "T2 battleship" and would probably be left for a different class of ship altogether.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.17 14:17:00 - [46] Originally by: Nos Gainah Honestly, I don't think this is really a bad idea for a ship, but it's been said before- that really wouldn't fall under the idea of a "T2 battleship" and would probably be left for a different class of ship altogether. Well, that's exactly what a T2 ship is really. T2 frigates include things like Covert Ops ships, for instance. Logistics cruisers are T2 variants, etc. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Nos Gainah	Posted - 2007.05.17 14:28:00 - [47] Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Nos Gainah Honestly, I don't think this is really a bad idea for a ship, but it's been said before- that really wouldn't fall under the idea of a "T2 battleship" and would probably be left for a different class of ship altogether. Well, that's exactly what a T2 ship is really. T2 frigates include things like Covert Ops ships, for instance. Logistics cruisers are T2 variants, etc. Very good point. I suppose I just don't see the T2 BS as something the devs will implement as a type of logistics craft, though a BS class logistics/ defensive type ship would definitely be an excellent addition and IMO is needed barring changes to the current logistics cruisers.
Protectories Itto-Ryu Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.05.17 14:48:00 - [48] howz about a big scout ship, that can use an Advanced scanner that shows pilot name and corp, and has increased range
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.17 15:00:00 - [49] Originally by: Protectories howz about a big scout ship, that can use an Advanced scanner that shows pilot name and corp, and has increased range Presumably you mean scanning in other systems. Otherwise you just described local. :) warp drive active \| nature vraie
Macmuelli Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.05.17 15:32:00 - [50] Edited by: Macmuelli on 17/05/2007 15:30:23 A role coud be also for them to disrupt temporary there "Siege Modus" of capitals of dreads/carriers. If Carriers will have such a "siege" mod too, this coud be also a chance to give them a special role. Perhaps for The cost of reducing at this time the amor hitpoints? So protection to them is needed. just an idea breg mac "Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.17 15:46:00 - [51] A T2 Battleship with Seige capabilities would do wonders for helping them survive Titan onslaughts. You'd open up fleet combat to something smaller than a Carrier. The truth is, though, battleships in this game have one purpose. Dishing out damage. Those that say T2 battleships would render T1's obsolete, well, yeah, they would. I mean, given the option, would you fly a Ferox or a Nighthawk? A Merlin or a Harpy? Tech 2s don't immediately render Tech 1's obsolete because not everyone can afford to replace a Tech 2 ship. So there'd still be PLENTY of market for T1 battleships competing against directly enhanced T2s. Most people still don't even fly T1 battleships, anyway. This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Nos Gainah	Posted - 2007.05.17 15:50:00 - [52] Originally by: Janu Hull A T2 Battleship with Seige capabilities would do wonders for helping them survive Titan onslaughts. You'd open up fleet combat to something smaller than a Carrier. The truth is, though, battleships in this game have one purpose. Dishing out damage. Those that say T2 battleships would render T1's obsolete, well, yeah, they would. I mean, given the option, would you fly a Ferox or a Nighthawk? A Merlin or a Harpy? Tech 2s don't immediately render Tech 1's obsolete because not everyone can afford to replace a Tech 2 ship. So there'd still be PLENTY of market for T1 battleships competing against directly enhanced T2s. Most people still don't even fly T1 battleships, anyway. As I said earlier, I think that the issue of obsoleting older ships can be entirely worked around by giving the T2 bs a small tracking penalty, something along the lines of a destroyer so that it has a tougher time hitting cruiser class vessels.
Iyanah Minmatar Mining Munitions and Mayhem R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.17 15:50:00 - [53] Originally by: CaptainSeafort ccp have looked at the idea, tooled around, and decided they have no niche currently. wait a bit indeed. the only current ideas we've heard of are uber-command-ships or wtfpwnmobiles like gian HACs, and neither of them seem to appealing at the moment. uber command ships would devalue the role played by regular command ships - i mean, hell, why would you take a regular command ship into battle if you had a BATTLESHIP sized command ship? and the HAB (heavy assault battleship) idea they threw out because noone needs a more uber way to pop stuff in empire. an interesting role needs to be found, before you can get a ship to fill it. perhaps a support combat role is teh way to go, something like a command ship (gang bonuses) but without simply making a bigger version of the same vessel. perhaps something similar to a logistics support, but as gang bonuses rather than repping a single friendly ship, or target painting a single ship, or whatever. ========================================== Iy
Haradgrim Caldari The Wild Bunch	Posted - 2007.05.17 16:34:00 - [54] the best thing they could do with t2 bs is make a cap ship hunter. it would be easy to do in a few different ways; 1) give them the ability to use a module that is unique to the ship (i.e. with a 99% reduction in CPU needs of capital ship-siege module). Then have that module have a warm up timer, the shot should either completely knock out any shield it hits or do a staggering amount of damage (could even have both, perhaps based on ammo type). Then there should be a cooldown where the ship is dead in the water, but can be healed by support ships. This would keep people from using it as a solopwnmobile since they would be weak during the cooldown time (say 45 sec to 1 min), but 2 or 3, backed up by proper support, could destoy a single capital ship without making it easy fend off a larger fleet (which should be harder to fight). This solution also ensures that more capitals (properly supported) are always a good thing (I think this is critical to making large scale warfare fun) 2) give them a sb-style cloaking device(that maybe is only effective against ships over a certain size or sig radius, i.e. a frigate would notice the massive spacial distortion nearby) as well as a damage mod for torps to make it possible to kill caps, allowing them to sneak up and gank caps that arent assembled as part of a larger fleet. That.which.does.not.bend.breaks
MassonA Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.17 17:02:00 - [55] i believe some gms are flying around in them on sisi, but id like to see the next level of recon ships that has a jump drive jammer or something
Haks'he Lirky 8th	Posted - 2007.05.17 17:06:00 - [56] titan/mothership tackle ships?
Riddick Valer	Posted - 2007.05.17 17:28:00 - [57] http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=521612
Alexi Borizkova Caldari New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.05.17 19:48:00 - [58] Originally by: MassonA i believe some gms are flying around in them on sisi, but id like to see the next level of recon ships that has a jump drive jammer or something And a thirty second cycle cyno generator. Five minutes still makes me feel unsafe.
Nox Solaris	Posted - 2007.05.17 19:52:00 - [59] Originally by: Scynscapaene They've said they want to find a role for T2 bs' because they dont want them to be "solopwnmobiles" :) I 'imagine' they will be a big gang bonus ship (alot better then CS') They already have T2 BS... they're called carriers and are solo pwnmobiles.
Nyack GREY COUNCIL Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.17 20:09:00 - [60] from Dev blog Quote: The Triage Mode is the carrier equivalent of Siege Mode, which enhances the logistics capabilities at the expense of offensive capabilities. Makes the carrier able to quickly assist other ships at the expense of (some of) its offensive capabilites. It's Vulnerable to EW (as opposed to dreads siege mode) but it gives Siege Mode like defenses. You'll get all the juicy details later in another blog, but this applies to Carriers, Motherships and probably to Logistics ships as well. if you read between the lines there.. logistic cruiser as we have them today survive because of the low sig radius. a triage mode where the cruiser would be stationary would insta pop it prolly. in other words there is prolly a triage mode BS on the way that will use the above stated bonuses and triage mode.. and i think it is closer then we think actually now that invention is in place so guys i think it is time to stock up on max run bs bpc cause they will be in high demand =)
Ja'kar Templar Securities and Holdings	Posted - 2007.05.17 20:17:00 - [61] Wy not t2 BS - som eppl like trained to be a bs pilot and would like agood bs to fly - t2 frigs - t2 crusier - ???? but no cos why - they would be overpowered like hac's command ships are not - BS i sin need of some lov - and not the tier 3 which should of been in a long time ago BS T2 plz
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.17 22:17:00 - [62] Originally by: Ja'kar Wy not t2 BS - som eppl like trained to be a bs pilot and would like agood bs to fly - t2 frigs - t2 crusier - ???? but no cos why - they would be overpowered like hac's command ships are not - BS i sin need of some lov - and not the tier 3 which should of been in a long time ago BS T2 plz Ok, dude, put the f-king Crakberry down and relearn to type... This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Macmuelli Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.05.17 23:19:00 - [63] perhaps it will be moved to features and ideas section but will pos what it coud be to give him a role. just an idea! Gallente Federation Albatross! "The Albatross Ship class was designed to stay in the first line of the war. After the "Showup" of the endless Power of The Capital vessels, our siencetiest has looked for an mobiler answer and created this new class." It was created to break there "Pos" defence systems. It was created to break enemie walls.. 7.5 % Hybrid dmg each level 6 % rof each level Extrarole bonus +10% cycle for rage moduls each level -99.5 % Cpu needed for rage moduls + 5% extracargohold for the fuel hangar of rage moduls Structur : 16000 (no resists) Amor : 24000 (EM 65%/ Explo 35% / Kn 65% / Thermal 65%) Shield : 10500 ( Em 15% / Explo 75% / Kin 70% /thermal 60%) (recharge rate 4.000) Cargohold: 1000 m/3 Drone: capacity : 250 Mass: 275.00.000 kg Volume: 1.980.560 m/3 (120.000.m/3 repacked) Agilty: .098 power ( 10000) recharge rate 2.100 sec locking range:125 km Target max 5 Scan resulotion 125 mm Magnometric sensor strength 56 Signatur radius 600mm Speed 180 m/sec low slots 7 med slots 5 high slots 8 Turret hardpoints 4 Launcher Hardpoints 2 Rigg slots 3 Cpu 760 Powergrid 22000 Calibration 550 Extrahangar for TECH II Logistic Modul To use rage moduls u need fuel like pos stuff.Isotopes/heavy water/liquid ozon Rage Moduls: Cynorsul Disruptor neutralizer. created to infiltrate systems who had such a pos modul running. It generate a field who make it posible for a reconship to set a cyn field. cycle time 120 sec at this time the "Albatross" get a resist boost to amor. Step by Step it is reducing like the running cycle time. The created Field gives dmg so repairing is needed.or a logistic in background perhaps?) just an idea to make them rolspecific and not like "solopownomobiles" Penalty s (negative effects to there"rage" mods make them worthless in the most missions...perhaps ance choice for1-2 where u fight aganst a enemie Ps? Ps:sry for my bad english and mistakes in typing.. breg mac "Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
StarSearcher	Posted - 2007.05.17 23:55:00 - [64] Originally by: CaptainSeafort ccp have looked at the idea, tooled around, and decided they have no niche currently. wait a bit Sure they have.... Special ability: Immune to Doomsday Device Special Ability2:Fighters are unable to lock on to them. (90% joking, 10% serious)
Boomhaur Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.18 00:30:00 - [65] Originally by: Jacob Castillo Give them awsome resistences but the DPS of a wet paper towel and I will be happy. Otherwise, no. Sounds like the Drake, but we dont get the DPS of a wet paper towel, its more like half the DPS of that. (sorry didnt mean try to drag this into a flame on Drakes, its just the first thing came to my mind when I saw this) Dude that Scammer just ninja'ed that Carebare's wallet!!
Ja'kar Templar Securities and Holdings	Posted - 2007.05.18 00:42:00 - [66] Ok, dude, put the f-king Crakberry down and relearn to type... erm no how about a big f u, and its a game forum I will type how I want... if its a work doc then yah I would care how it looks and what my boss thinks, u well, who gives a ****...
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.05.18 01:01:00 - [67] Oh em gee teh gme forum lez all tak liek dis. wtfpwnmobilebbq!!11
6Bagheera9 Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.18 01:22:00 - [68] I really don't see a role for T2 BSs, the anti-cap proposal is really just an indictment of cap ships and the unbalanced difficulty associated with taking them down without your own cap ships. What really need to be done is fixing the way tacklers are able to engage capital ships and how jump-drives and DDDs work. Because of their model size capitals currently get a stealth bonus to smart bomb range, up to 20km for the best officer bombs, making it unrealistically difficult to tackle them. The EWAR immunities associated with MSs and Titans make tackling them even more difficult. I can understand how cap ships should be more resistant to EWAR than conventional ships, but the current immunities are excessive. Lastly, the ability to just jump out when things get ugly is unabashedly overpowered and leads to some really cheesy tactics when combined with a Titan using a DDD.
Ja'kar Templar Securities and Holdings	Posted - 2007.05.18 01:29:00 - [69] Edited by: Ja''kar on 18/05/2007 01:28:13 Oh em gee teh gme forum lez all tak liek dis. wtfpwnmobilebbq!!11 Mine was not as bad as that and I can also read what ur saying so no harm done... So please, f u aswell em sorry to the OP T2 BS I would like to see in game
Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.18 03:38:00 - [70] Edited by: Gamesguy on 18/05/2007 03:39:00 For example, T2 abaddon: With the alarming increase in the usage of capital ships in smaller skirmishes, the Royal Navy decided to commission a ship capable of lending heavy capital grade firepower to conventional fleets, yet remain more mobile than a dreadnought. The result is a monster. The Wolverine is specifically designed to combat capital class vessels while maintaining all the mobility of a ship of its class. Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Battleship Skill Bonus: 50% bonus to XL energy weapon rate of fire and 5% bonus to all armor resistance per level. Flagship Skill Bonus: 50% bonus to XL energy weapon damage and 10% bonus to XL energy weapon optimal range per level. Role Bonus: 98% reduction in XL weapon power grid needs, 50% reduction in XL weapon capacitor usage. Penalty: -92.5% tracking and -92.5% explosion velocity for all XL weapons. Slots: 8/4/8, 4 turret slots, 2 rig slots. 24k grid, 600 cpu 25m3 drone bay. 10000 structure, 10000 armor(60/80/62.5/35), 8k shield(0/90/70/20), 2500 recharge. Capacitor 8000, 1250 recharge. 100 km max targetting range, max locked targets 8, radar sensor str 30, scan resolution 60mm sig radius 470, max velocity 100m/sec. With only 4 turret slots and 25m3 drone bay its pretty worthless against regular battleships, and it has the same penalties to its guns as siege mode, making it only useful for shooting at caps ships. It does quite a bit more damage than a dread, but its tank is much weaker.
Zhaymus Hockhold DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2007.05.18 03:48:00 - [71] I would kind of agree with what Gamesguy is attempting, just not exactly that. And please don't try to fit BSs into the niche that CSs already fill.
Alexi Borizkova Caldari New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.05.18 03:51:00 - [72] I was thinking more about t2 BS today, and made a thread about them in ships and modules. I'll paraphrase how I'd like to see them here. Starting off with expanding on my scorpion comment above. Covert Ops Battleship Scorpion model, Ishukone paint scheme. Primary purpose: acting as a stationary intel gathering point in a system. Superior sensors allowing you to know who is in system even if they remove local. Additionally, an expanded map view showing enemy positions (after you get a web of sensors or probes deployed) allowing you to send gang waypoints to these places in system where the enemy is hiding, even if they are cloaked. Secondary purpose: Provides gang wide sensor related bonus, perhaps lock range, speed, resistance to damps or ECM. I would envision this as the sort of thing a dedicated fleet commander might fly, or his second in command. Offers new capabilities to its fleet, and makes it impossible to run from them in the same system. Heck, it might even be interesting for it to have the ability to lock down all outgoing stargates in a system, by decloaking and having a cyno like beacon placed on its head. While this might overpower the ship, I dunno, it's an interesting debate. Flagship Raven hull, Kaalikiota paintscheme Primary purpose: provide direct tactical benefits to fleet. Damage, tank, that sort of thing. By neccesity this would be a ship nearly impossible to kill (allowing a fleet commander to stay alive for an entire fight, passing out orders from the thick of things. Secondary purpose: More defensive measures, or the ability to choose a target and force all ships in fleet to target it, or perhaps give them an additional free target lock on a single primary target (if on grid) regardless of being damped, ECMed or lagged. The FC calls primary, and it is immediately locked and ready for you to shoot at. I envision this ship in the thick of things, monitoring the battle from the front and passing out orders to the fleet. Offensive capabilities would be highly limited, with defense and fleet optimization as its main function. Focus more on new leadership modules and capabilities rather than stepping on the toes of command ships (which would serve as wing commanders or squad leaders, likely). Heavy Weapons Platform Rokh hull Primary purpose: Squaring off with capitals as a countermeasure. This ship functions on par or a bit better than a standard battleship offensively and defensively... until you activate some sort of module that places it in takedown mode. This reconfigures weapons and defenses to concentrate on one target to the exclusion of others. (countermeasures, shields, armor bracing, what have you) effectively giving the ship a significgant bonus to resists against a single target it is actively targetting, with a duration of several minutes. I would picture the offensive portion to be akin to the siege mode, less tracking, speed, etc. Secondary purpose: Scare the bajeezus out of people in expensive things. For three, or four, whatever, minutes you can designate a target to the exlusion of all others. Against that single target you are stronger, meaner, and eminently capable of doing them harm... but his entire support fleet has an easier time taking you out. It's a tradeoff. I would envision this being used en masse as a counter to capital ships or as mini dreads for POS elimination. However, it can be flanked easily by a support fleet, and while it's "take down mode" is active it is softer than your average BS to other targets, preserving t1 BS in the game.
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.05.18 03:52:00 - [73] If we're going to do T3 ships, we might as well round out the T2 ones first.
Macmuelli Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.05.21 21:05:00 - [74] which role the coud also have is open a jump portal. Limted to bs/cruiser /frig sized ships for the cost of isotopes. maxed to 15 ships all together. jump range 3-4 lightyears this option woud add more "surprise effects" to the game and it woud give fleets more flexibilty to travel without fearing "megagatecamps" breg mac "Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
Lobo Noturno	Posted - 2007.05.21 21:45:00 - [75] I am with the people that want the T2 BS as an anti-capital ship. I personally believe that being anti-capital means two things: -Jump Drive Interdictor module - Specific High-slot module used to jam capital and super-capital ships.(Yep, MS and Titans beware) -Very high, HAC-like resistances. Preferably built on top of the Tier3 BS models and bonuses(those already have tanking bonuses) It needs to survive lots of firepower, specially if supported remotely, since it will be primary to any capital fleet or it's respective support fleet... To not make them into solo-pwnmobiles, I suggest gimping the weapon setup to something like half a normal BS damage output.(they're specialized ships) They're not suposed to kill capital ships, what would be pointless given that Dreads already are the cap ship killers. Their role is to keep those capital ships from escaping, just like interdictors do to normal fleets(but these T2 BS do not have the interdiction launcher, they work only against capital ships..), but without being easily destroyed.
KHEN Gallente New Horizons	Posted - 2007.05.22 08:19:00 - [76] Edited by: KHEN on 22/05/2007 08:17:21 I rely entirely on CCP to find a nicely specialized and balanced role for the T2 BS. Something usefull vs capital ships would be great ofc (reduced damage from fighters, or tremendous bonuses to smartbombs or to energy neutralizers). Make the energy needs on these ships so important (200, 500 or even 1000 energy per second) that they will allways need energy transfers from logistics to be effective. Thus they won't be solo pwnmobiles. just an idea ofc
Dodona Gallente Azure Horizon Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.05.22 13:49:00 - [77] t1 frigates : destroyers :: battleships : t2 battleships Oh, I hope, I hope, I hope.
Pete Stalker Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.22 14:25:00 - [78] something like battleship sized recons would be wicked with the tank and dmg of a t1 BS but some nasty bonus which could put some extra tactics into fleetbattles for example. we dont need more pewpew, we need more creative ideas to get away from the usual "primary, secondary target"-bull**** as fleet ops are atm There is no buisness like Pete's buisness.
Sazkyen	Posted - 2007.07.24 09:33:00 - [79] Enough already! Low sec guys got a lot of ships to play with already: the cap ones. Make the T2 BS a ship somewhat better than T1 ones and that's it. If they come out with yet another "LOW SEC ONLY" stuff or something that can only be used in fleet battles then it would surely make me and a lot of other players cry like a baby.
Ssoraszh Tzarszh Minmatar Grumpy Old Farts Gruntfuttocks	Posted - 2007.07.24 09:36:00 - [80] No i think its too early, maybe ask again tomorow?
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.24 09:41:00 - [81] I dont understand why people would not want t2 bs's in game. Do these people want ships like Zealots removed because they outclass a omen? Do they want Cerebus's removed because they outclass a Caracel? Or is it because they dont want to train up BS L5 -- Billion Isk Mission
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.07.24 09:43:00 - [82] My favorite ship would still be the heavy interdictor. Make it like a normal BS, just with higher resists, bit more HP as usual, but as a bonus I would give it the ability to fit a large warp disruptor bubble generator as a module. It should require fuel to use (like heavy water or so) and generate a large warp disruptor bubble 45km radius, or 54km for the T2 version. This way it would be a small step up from the normal T1 BS in normal operations, since it would have more resists and such, but not do more damage. In fleet warfare though, it would enable instantaneous deployment of a large bubble, though at the cost of making the ship itself rather vulnerable (the bubble is centered on himself, and thus he obviously can't warp). Thats also what he needs the high resists and such for, since that probably makes him primary in every fight. ------------------------------------------------ Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.24 09:49:00 - [83] Tbh, i feel they should focus on making the game run properly before adding any more content. In the futureat some point they may be a nice addition but for now, they need to fix the game properly ( crosses fingers for todays patch ) GOONIES = OMNIPOTENCE INCARNATE
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.07.24 09:54:00 - [84] Originally by: fire 59 Tbh, i feel they should focus on making the game run properly before adding any more content. In the futureat some point they may be a nice addition but for now, they need to fix the game properly ( crosses fingers for todays patch ) I agree on fixing the game, but I think adding a few more ships is a different and less invasive form of adding content than say: Heat, or walking in stations. I'd prefer they would hold off on the latter till the big lag/bug issues are fixed, but I don't see how a few more ships here and there would distract them from that. More ships is always better ------------------------------------------------ Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
R3dSh1ft Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.24 09:59:00 - [85] One thing is sure - the Caldari ones going to be crap. DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine
Fedaykinn Templars of Space Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.24 10:24:00 - [86] Like they said on EVE TV. It wont be just a bigger and more damaging version of the HAC, they are going to serve a different purpose. What that purpose is were not sure yet. Im sure itll serve some sort of very interesting role
Rafein	Posted - 2007.07.24 10:45:00 - [87] I kinda think, with CCP's current plan for develoment, it will be something to break up blobbing/alpha strikes. Flagship. HAC resists, more HP, only 2-3 highslots max. can fit a Fleet module, works like a gang mod. Fleet module- When active, all damage done to any ship in the gang is shared evenly throughout the gang. End result, no more Primaries, longer fleet battle.
Zosimos Sabina Tritanium Workers Union Kinetic Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.24 10:55:00 - [88] I want them to fix defender missiles. I want them to buff missle launchers on non-missle boats so I might choose to fit something other than nosferatu in my spare high slots. I want a counter to nosferatu - perhaps smart bombs, making the smaller smart bombs actually worth fitting. I want capacitor batteries and capacitor flux coils to be actually worth fitting under the right circumstances. I want them to balance the crappy t1 cruisers and frigates like the Bellicose, Moa, Omen, Tristan, and non-Caldari missle frigates. I want logistics to be actually worth taking to a fight, including the t1 variants like the Augoror and Scythe. I want the Apocalypse to have a role, since it has been usurped as the tanking Amarr battleship by the Abaddon. I want t1 destroyers and interdictors balanced, so that I don't just see Flycatchers and Thrashers. I want the Amarr Khanid ships to be something more than a waste of database space. I want tier 1 battlecruisers to actually be balanced vs tier 2 rather than being an inferior choice every time. WHAT I DON'T WANT - New ships when I already don't fly 75% of the ships I am capable of flying because they suck. Sorry for rant. ------------------------------------------------ »\(¦_o)/»
Cpt Branko Guardian Heroes	Posted - 2007.07.24 11:27:00 - [89] Originally by: Jacob Castillo Give them awsome resistences but the DPS of a wet paper towel and minimum dronebays and I will be happy. Otherwise, no. Exactly, with a minor correction. ;) Give them a large dronebay, and we'll have a T2 NOS-domi, talk about underpowered Originally by: Tsanse Kinske The second you start equating time spent playing a game with lost time and money is the second you need to ask yourself "Why am I playing?". Seriously
Felysta Sandorn Caldari System-Lords	Posted - 2007.07.24 11:36:00 - [90] Gallante t2 BS: Can rep it's entire armour with one cycle of a LAR2, can go 2km/s, and can fit a full rack of Neutrons along with 80% resists! Caldari t2 BS: Has base resists of over 80% (apart from EM that's 79%), and can passively tank level 4 missions solo, also has 8 launchers. Minmatar t2 BS: Can go 15km/s, has the sig radius of a spoon, tracking and damage bonuses, as well as a shield boost bonus, and the ability to fit 8 1400s. Amarr t2 BS: Can either rep or use guns, has 1000 cap with a recharge time of 2000 seconds, has a damage bonus, but only 4 turret hardpoints and 4 missile hardpoints as we haven't had a hybrid ship in a while (last was the vengeance and malediction and they nerfed the launchers of those). Then... After 3 months of implementation... Amarr t2 BS gets a tracking bonus, other t2 BS get a HP boost. ... ... I see nothing but good things that can come from t2 BS! Latest Video, Click Here!
Rafein	Posted - 2007.07.24 13:51:00 - [91] Originally by: Fedaykinn Originally by: Rafein Fleet module- When active, all damage done to any ship in the gang is shared evenly throughout the gang. End result, no more Primaries, longer fleet battle. Thats just stupid. Everyone shoot the Interceptor with one million hp!! That's even a worse idea. If damage is shared, why shoot at the smallest sig? Shoot the BS, and pop the inty
Isan Danderoda Strix Armaments and Defence Acheron Federation	Posted - 2007.07.24 14:05:00 - [92] We can't have Tech 2 BSes yet. My skills aren't nearly up to that point!
Vina Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.24 14:14:00 - [93] Originally by: Janu Hull MMMMMM!! Tech II Rokh with 350km sniping..../drool considering you can't lock past 250km... (hardcoded limit) ----------------------------------- my opinion is my own.
Mr Dogg Nubs.	Posted - 2007.07.24 15:30:00 - [94] OK my idea for Tech II BS 2 Types: "Flagship Class" Uber-Tanker-Fleet-Command (Can fit 3 gang mods simultaneously and new mod "Damage Reflection Module") "Coventry Class" (Look the word up if you don't get it) Uber-Mobile-Cyno-Field-Jammer (Can Fit new mod "Cynosural Jamming Field Launcher") Dynamics of the two: Flagship Class Battleships get T2 Resists, ability to boost gang with 3 gang mods at an even greater reduced cost to PG/CPU/CAP per gang mod. Furthermore, the ability to fit a "Damage Reflection Mod." (See Below). Stay away from any other bonus' to keep it from being to awesome. Coventry Class Battleships get T2 Resists, maybe a reduced sig (Just enough to make a reduction in damage dealt by Fighters / Dreads. But thats still up in the air...). Also the ability to launch Cynosural-Jammer-Fields like a dictor. (See Below.) Mobile Cynosural Field Jamming Generator: Fuel Consumption, will limit the use of any Cynosural Field or POS Cyno-Generator within the system for 10-30 minutes based on skills. Coventry BS cannot move when this is active but it can still use its modules. The Module will be something ridiculous like 100 million ISK on top of the T2 BS cost. Why this isn't unbalanced: Jump portal Generators are not effected. In theory if a enemy fleet with one of these comes in they can't jump in caps through cyno cause of their jam. However, you can jump gate yours in from the system you own next door if you have a portal gen up. Still keeping all the benefits of owning a constellation. Damage Reflection Module: Fuel Consumption, will reduce the damage taken by any gang member within the radius of the Reflector (40-50km) by 25%-75% Depending on the lvl you train the rank 8 skill needed to operate it to. Like the Mobile Cyno Jammer it will render you immobile but still able to use mods. It will count as a gang mod and require Fleet Command lvl 1 minimum plus skill to use mod. Why this isn't Unbalanced: Only grants bonus to one damage type hypothetically you could fit up to 3 of them since its a gang mod but doing so will limit your combat effectiveness also make these expensive as hell to run / produce. Flame Away You Forum *****s.
Herbie Handcock	Posted - 2007.07.24 19:20:00 - [95] Edited by: Herbie Handcock on 24/07/2007 19:20:50 hmmmm.
Sazkyen	Posted - 2007.07.24 19:21:00 - [96] Originally by: Felysta Sandorn ... Caldari t2 BS: Has base resists of over 80% (apart from EM that's 79%), and can passively tank level 4 missions solo, also has 8 launchers. ... I kind of like this idea, very nicely done!!! Seriously though, here's my idea of a T2 Caldari Battleship: 1., It has a brand new hull 2., It has a brand NEW hull 3., It has a BRAND NEW HULL 4., Can fit eight launchers (see 7. and 8. though) 5., Has all-around 50% shield resistances 6., Has inherent bonus against CAPITAL ships, (there you go fleet lovers) 7., Has NO bonuses on launchers (you need to rely solely on your skills if you want to use it in missions) 8., Has penalty on missile speed 9., IT CAN fly in high-sec... There you go. This way both high sec carebears like me and also the low-sec and fleet guys could enjoy it. It wouldn't be that incredibly overpowered in missions though. As for the slot layout, that's too complicated to imagine with the skills above. It would require some study ofc.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.28 15:25:00 - [97] What most people forget about this "let make t2 bs anti-capital" is that it is very very rare there is a capfleet battle in the first place. But I can see a niche for POS warfare. BS's taking on POS's insted of Dreads is fast becoming a reality even now, so it would not surprise me that t2 bs's go down that route. Then again, nobody really knows at this stage so lets see what CCP has to say about it. -- Billion Isk Mission
RedLion Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.28 15:37:00 - [98] But i want a wtfpwnmobile! gief! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Red Crown Kudzu Collective	Posted - 2007.07.28 16:17:00 - [99] Originally by: Janu Hull Originally by: Ja'kar Wy not t2 BS - som eppl like trained to be a bs pilot and would like agood bs to fly - t2 frigs - t2 crusier - ???? but no cos why - they would be overpowered like hac's command ships are not - BS i sin need of some lov - and not the tier 3 which should of been in a long time ago BS T2 plz Ok, dude, put the f-king Crakberry down and relearn to type... Dude, lay off. Didn't you hear? Spelling got nerfed in the last patch. Some people got hit pretty hard by it. Anyway I don't see a niche for the T2 BS atm. Maybe has a heavy non capital tanker.
D Bogart Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.28 16:30:00 - [100] Considering that there are currently 3 tiers of battleships atm, they could be released in waves i.e. tier 1, provides very limited offensive ability, great tank, and a special bonus i.e. t2 scorp perhaps generates a shield around you fleet, t2 geddon does a cloak, t2 phoon does a webby field and t2 domi generates a field that heals ships in the bubble radius - slowly... Then you have the second tier, which could be anti capital, and a third tier than provides other unique bonuses i.e. mini jump bridges etc.
TZeer BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:04:00 - [101] T2 bs... Higher resists. Firepower as normal T1 BS. Then some funky T2 bonus for whatever role it will get. Maybe 1 extra slot.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:45:00 - [102] well 1 on 1 a T2 BS should whipe the floor with his T1 counterpart, i mean why not, these things will be hugely expensive so they should be tough as nails. the biggest problem is to give them a reason for beeing, they need a role and just beeing a'omgwtfpwnbbqmachine' isn't enough, we got plenty of those allready. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
TZeer BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:51:00 - [103] Also make them fun to fly even if you dont have a fleet around you. In other words, no to ubergang bonuses and firepower as a wet towel...
gregory j Gallente Arcana Imperii Ltd. The Cartel.	Posted - 2007.08.02 19:56:00 - [104] Edited by: gregory j on 02/08/2007 20:01:31 I'm not very enthusiastic about bringing T2 BS's into the mix. I believe a few things would happen that would greatly affect the PvP culture... 1) T1 Battleships would become obsolete...it would only be a matter of time and a billion isk (proposed cost) is not that much for a large percentage of the eve community. 2) CS's would become obsolete...they are really not fast/agile enough to out-perform a T2 BS when all other things are considered (I'm excluding speed/orbit setups as these seem to be the exception rather than the norm) 3) Plenty of pilots are already pushing the limits of Tier 3 BS's to the point of being able to tank capital firepower/fighter drones...if you consider the bonuses of T2 ships in general as well as the resistances, think about what a faction/officer fitted T2 BS could do... Solution? I've always liked how even the most experienced pilots could choose between tech2 ships and battleships/tier 2 BC's and be considered effective either way. There was a balance between tech 2 and size so that ultimately, BS's and CS's offset each other (even more so when NOS gets nerfed). However, implementing T2 BS's will just make the goal of every player to get into a T2 BS...if history is any judge and the ratio of power from a T1 ship to its T2 counterpart is applied, T2 BS's will be solo omgwtfpwnage machines. Personally, I would much rather see an expansion upon the already existing ships/categories. One example could be to create more faction variants so that each ship could have as many as 2 or 3 faction versions, each with unique roles and specialties. To be honest, the concept of the T2 BS filling a specific role and only that is, well, bs. The idea of these ships not being overpowered and only effective for certain tasks is extremely optimistic. Let's not kid ourselves...these ships will be as close to unstoppable as you can get...they will have to upgrade Jovian ships as well in order to deal with unruly T2 BS players. ------------------------------------------------ 2007.02.22 03:34 This evemail message is subject to a CSPA service charge of 2,000,000,000 ISK, which you must accept to complete the invitation.
Xarax Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.08.02 21:00:00 - [105] I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Make a T2 BS similar to T1 BS's, only let it enter into siege mode. While in siege mode, give it a ridiculous tank, and about a 50% damage bonus. There you go, a niche is filled (you know, the one between BS's and Caps). _______ Originally by: Kara Rhane AFAIK they call that a 'moose knuckle'
Sgt Blade Dark Entropy	Posted - 2007.08.02 21:15:00 - [106] yeah i live the idea of somthing that can open a cyno in cyno jammed systems. nothing instant like but more of a charge up modual maybe? takes a minute to charge up or somthing before friendly capitals can jump to you. maybe 1 minute it too long? o even too short if you think about it give it decent resistance for tanking and next to nothing combat capabilities so that your goin to have to have a bs fleet + support next to it to give it the time to charge up and so capitals can jump in. maybe limit the amount of things you can jump in per cycle so i dunno after charging up the moduale you ahve so many 'points' to jump a capital ship in so say for example moduale allows 5 points. carriers are 1 point dreads are 2 points each motherships are 4 points titans are 5 points or even make it so you need 2 of these ships to have moduale each and to link them together to create one big one and increase titans to 10 and mothers to 5 but you get what i mean right??? Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:24:00 - [107] Originally by: Gamesguy Make them anti-caps ships. Let them mount XL weapons(a full rack of say 4-5) with massive reduction to cap use and tracking speed, then toss on a massive damage bonus. I envision each one doing equal or greater damage than a sieged dread, with the same tracking, but much less tank(standard BS tank with t2 resists). Thats a stupid idea. The whole idea behind seige is that Dreads need to do that to get that damage. Then a BS comes along that can match it AND move. What would be the point of training for Dreads? Originally by: Ask Unbeatable OR WE COUDL LIEK GIEF IT 10 HIGHSLTOS!!!!!!!! AIRPLANE !
Onnawa Minmatar Alcohol Fueled Brutality X-PACT	Posted - 2007.08.02 23:23:00 - [108] My take on the t2 BS would be this: Slightly better than tech 1 resists. That extremely low (or in the case of shield tankers, non-existent) resist that everyone has....bring it up by 10-20 points. That in turn would allow for the freeing of one slot, and potentially a rig slot as well. Doesn't over-power the ship, but makes it worth the year and a half of train time you'll be putting into it. Somewhat higher shield, armor, structure, and capacitor values, again to reward for the train time. Bonuses to target painters, sensor linking, and command bonuses. These would go a long way towards making a t2 battleship viable in fleet and anti-capital combat. Addition of high slots, both hard-pointed and non-hard-pointed, depending on the chassis. Some battleships need more highs to be effective now, much less as a t2 variant, while some (read maelstrom with 8 gun ports already) could simply do with addition of gang modules without sacrificing firepower. Subsequently the addition of some mids or lows might be in order to bring certain chassises in line (tempest...all it does is snipe because it doesn't have the mids or lows to tank effectively for anything else.) A slight increase in powergrid and CPU to offset the addition of the high slots. A substantial decrease in speed combined with an increase in signature radius. (We are, in essence, talking of building a true dreadnought, which by definition is a heavy battleship...they have always been slower than their counterparts.) A re-thinking of some of the chassis bonuses. I hear a lot of call for a t2 or faction domi, but the current chassis bonuses would leave it severely underpowered in the eyes of it's bretheren. Perhaps the addition of some missile hardpoints or a re-tooling of it's base chassis bonuses on the t2 variant would be in order. What this leaves is a ship more perfectly suited to the role everyone is hoping for...fleet/anti-capital work. Higher DPS would come more from modules and gang bonuses than actual weaponry, as well as resist gains from the gang bonuses and a subsequently harder tank. If the gang modules aren't employed, it would only be slightly nastier than your current battleship (with a much higher price tag.) This would lead to the intended use in gangs as opposed to the "Solowtfpwnmobile" that everyone is so terrified of. Will there be abuses of the t2 ships? Of course there will. Everything in Eve is abused in one form or another (cap ships gate camping, for instance) but this setup would minimize that to the greatest extent possible. _____________________________________ I'm not a Pirate. I just have anger management issues.......and kleptomania.
Laura Steel Minmatar Independent Interspace Industiers	Posted - 2007.08.02 23:24:00 - [109] I`d rather have 'pocket carriers',to try and bridge the Battleship - Capitol Ship gap. Slighty bigger than battleships, without the triage module or logistical boni, they can use drone control links, they could each have a drone bonus and a race specific bonus(shield / armour resists, speed, an extra drone bonus for gallante). Since there are usually two choices, the second choice could also be race specific? I.e. the Minmatar one is designed like the pocket battleships from years ago, they have slightly better resists, less structure, armour and shield. Less CPU but more shield and CPU recharge(meant to be higher tech after all). And fast. ----
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.08.03 00:48:00 - [110] If its a normal ship then all fleets will just upgrade to t2 bs and the cost of fighting will increase and people will be even more cowardly in blob combat then they are now. Brutix -> Astarte Megathron -> omgwtfpwnbbqboat I think that would be bad... how about special roles? A few ideas i've come up with... AWACS... with the new in system map, scanning, pos based system scanners, broadcasts... maybe its time for a real fleet control ship? huge and accurate scanner? good 3d Graphical readout? Woot i say. Woot. Mobile shield? If you wanna bring combat closer together CCP... how about a mobile pos shield generator BS that can emit a small pos like shield that cant be fired into or out of but fighting can occur inside it... allowing close range fleets to be useful again or at least flee bubble camps and warp before snipers could break the shield ship and massacre them from sniping spots... anyone else got some crazy ideas?
Gul Rashen Perkone	Posted - 2007.09.02 19:28:00 - [111] Edited by: Gul Rashen on 02/09/2007 19:29:07 WarCry: Any word on when we could be seeing Tech 2 Battle Ships, and what they might be like? Noah Ward: Well they are not going to be like uber hacks or you know, they are not just going to be just more damage and more resist. We are really trying to have them fill a certain niche, so what we are planning on having for the Revelations 3 patch is Black Ops battleships, which are more stealth oriented, more for getting behind enemy lines, more recon types of things. Maybe some special features with perhaps their own jump drives, and their own jump portals that will only allow certain ships through.....The other type of Tech 2 ship we haven't come up with a name yet, but it's going to be like a mission runner battleship. A huge number of our player base are not these big PvPers, they are mission runners for their empire, and you know doing their thing. While the ships will be really good at PvP, they will have things like bigger cargo bays for loot. They will have better locking times, better tracking, a lot of utility slots. Things that if you are a mission runner, what would be your ideal battle ship. Full Interview: http://eve.warcry.com/news/view/76434
Akat Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.09.02 19:59:00 - [112] If they have more of a gang support role, then sure: logistics or some form of gang assist. Otherwise, no. I see no need for them to be super hacs.
bigred monkey Sphere Systems	Posted - 2007.09.02 20:05:00 - [113] personally, iw ould like to see a 'heavy bomber' in the game. i think this would fill a nice anti-fleet role and they t2 battleships would prove an ideal ship for that. give it the ability to fit like 4-5 bomb launchers and it would please a lot of people, it works against caps, large b/ship fleets and the best......gate camps!! i dont want to see extra resistance's or greater dps from standard weapons, if i want 7 launchers i will buy a cnr, think this is a good idea but am sure you guys will flame it quick quickly Congratualtions, your signature broke all of our signature size rules - exceeding the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Timmeh ([email protected])
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.09.02 20:39:00 - [114] Originally by: Xarax I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Make a T2 BS similar to T1 BS's, only let it enter into siege mode. While in siege mode, give it a ridiculous tank, and about a 50% damage bonus. There you go, a niche is filled (you know, the one between BS's and Caps). That would make it a fleet-pvp toy, and nothing else. Better something that can be an upgrade for both pvpers and those who don't pvp. ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.09.02 21:19:00 - [115] Originally by: gregory j Edited by: gregory j on 02/08/2007 20:01:31 I'm not very enthusiastic about bringing T2 BS's into the mix. I believe a few things would happen that would greatly affect the PvP culture... 1) T1 Battleships would become obsolete...it would only be a matter of time and a billion isk (proposed cost) is not that much for a large percentage of the eve community. 2) CS's would become obsolete...they are really not fast/agile enough to out-perform a T2 BS when all other things are considered (I'm excluding speed/orbit setups as these seem to be the exception rather than the norm) 3) Plenty of pilots are already pushing the limits of Tier 3 BS's to the point of being able to tank capital firepower/fighter drones...if you consider the bonuses of T2 ships in general as well as the resistances, think about what a faction/officer fitted T2 BS could do... Solution? I've always liked how even the most experienced pilots could choose between tech2 ships and battleships/tier 2 BC's and be considered effective either way. There was a balance between tech 2 and size so that ultimately, BS's and CS's offset each other (even more so when NOS gets nerfed). However, implementing T2 BS's will just make the goal of every player to get into a T2 BS...if history is any judge and the ratio of power from a T1 ship to its T2 counterpart is applied, T2 BS's will be solo omgwtfpwnage machines. Personally, I would much rather see an expansion upon the already existing ships/categories. One example could be to create more faction variants so that each ship could have as many as 2 or 3 faction versions, each with unique roles and specialties. To be honest, the concept of the T2 BS filling a specific role and only that is, well, bs. The idea of these ships not being overpowered and only effective for certain tasks is extremely optimistic. Let's not kid ourselves...these ships will be as close to unstoppable as you can get...they will have to upgrade Jovian ships as well in order to deal with unruly T2 BS players. QFT. This. Basically, this is the problem ;) Originally by: Tsanse Kinske The second you start equating time spent playing a game with lost time and money is the second you need to ask yourself "Why am I playing?". Seriously
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.09.02 21:50:00 - [116] T1 BS are currently the top of the food chain - a CS can run into a BS and have a bad day. If you make a T2 BS that is to T1 BS as HACs are to 'normal' cruisers, then you basically obseleted the battleship. To a certain extent, there's not a lot of reason to fly a Caracal when you can fly a cerb. But the fact remains, that the cerb remains lunchmeat to larger ships. The T2 BS wouldn't have larger ships (and no, capitals don't count). So they need to do something different, or even be worse in combat but with some 'interesting' special ability. Otherwise they replace T1 BS - price tag is _NOT_ a balancing factor. HAC resists get more 'powerful' on the larger ships, because there's more flexibility in tanking modules. And a 'more damage' BS would also be too sick. No, it _has_ to be something else, because otherwise everyone who flies a BS today, will upgrade to a T2 BS, because they're already expensive to lose anyway. Personally, I feel a T1 BS + jumpdrive would be pretty balanced as a T2 BS. You'd be able to move with your capitals, and 'suprise' people, but ... well, you cap'd be hurting when you arrive. And you still wouldn't outclass a T1 BS.
Fafnir Drake Gallente Boob Heads Haud Terminus	Posted - 2007.09.02 23:14:00 - [117] I like the idea someone posted earlier of supoer logistics ships. Give them the single sickest tank you can imagine, with huge cap recharge, only moderate damage. Also, give a bonus letting em use triage modules. :) If this idea sucks more then Paris Hilton, please slap a bounty on me so i can pod myself for quick cash. ------ "A wise man once told me never to argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level, and then beat you with experience."
Dimitrius Zabelle	Posted - 2007.09.02 23:39:00 - [118] Best idea i have ever heard for t2 Battleships.. Battleships that either fit frigate guns / launchers (with fitting cost and damage increases) or fit new fast tracking BS guns / launchers.. act as anti-frigate / cruiser ships.. but don't deal enough damage to kill even t1 BSs or BCs solo. This way they have a decent role that would work well and they wouldn't be able to kill large things very easily, so wouldn't be overpowered.
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.03 00:24:00 - [119] Edited by: Tasuric Orka on 03/09/2007 00:34:16 Edited by: Tasuric Orka on 03/09/2007 00:27:41 Edited by: Tasuric Orka on 03/09/2007 00:25:43 I agree it should not be a DPS monster, at this time there are enough "elite" gank ships around to make the rank and file ordinairy T1 player cry. I was thinking along the lines of a Logistics/Gang bonus Battleship with an insane sensor res and range, but with a -XXX% penalty when targetting non gang members to offset the damping love that seems to be becoming more popular and allow it to give hugs to ships with booboos quickly.. Along with a remote shield/armor/cap range/rep bonus, and a +2/3 warp core to limit the liability factor. It will have NO hardpoints at all, but nice resists all around to again.. help against the primairy lables any sort of "special" ship like this gets in battles. See it as a omni-tank repping mega command basilisk. It might be just "one" battleship, there is plenty of rp justification to have a "ore corp" like combat ship developed. Alliances and corporations with multiple races under one flag must have been around forever. Not sure if it'll be overpowering as its just a brain fart right now, might spend some more cycles thinking on it later. EDIT: Blah, having the same idea's as others ftl.
Carter Burke	Posted - 2007.09.03 01:15:00 - [120] I'd love to see genine specialist roles for some of them...like some form of EW ship that can bonus hacking and disable/hold disabled elements of a POS...or an assault carrier that can carry five fighters without the ability to assign them to someone else... And of course, a massive railgun platform that looks like a Centauri battlecruiser would be nice too ). But you know what I really want to see? NPCs using tech-2 ships. CB
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.09.03 01:33:00 - [121] Ram-Raider Battleship. Mounts a custom-modified jump portal system which works with a stargate to a provide a 1-jump link to another system (i.e. you can only jump to systems linked by 1 stargate jump, but the jump range is infinite. Intended to allow non-stargate based entry to hostile systems via a cyno-field deployed by a recon (i.e. give recons a reason to fit the cyno gen and cov ops cloak and get into a system).
Moridin920 Gallente Dust Echoes FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.03 03:03:00 - [122] Originally by: Macmuelli Edited by: Macmuelli on 16/05/2007 22:37:52 a bit more then " No " woud be nice Hell no? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience our piracy may have caused you, but, we are pirates and, sadly, this is our way."
Agent 452 Caldari Redback Industries	Posted - 2007.09.03 04:11:00 - [123] while this topic is happily going around in circles, i'd like to draw your attention to a post on about page three which linked the following http://eve.warcry.com/news/view/76434 And if you canÆt access that at work, hereÆs an except of the exciting part: ôWarCry: Any word on when we could be seeing Tech 2 Battle Ships, and what they might be like? Noah Ward: Well they are not going to be like uber hacks or you know, they are not just going to be just more damage and more resist. We are really trying to have them fill a certain niche, so what we are planning on having for the Revelations 3 patch is Black Ops battleships, which are more stealth oriented, more for getting behind enemy lines, more recon types of things. Maybe some special features with perhaps their own jump drives, and their own jump portals that will only allow certain ships through. WarCry: That's really cool! Noah Ward: The other type of Tech 2 ship we haven't come up with a name yet, but it's going to be like a mission runner battleship. A huge number of our player base are not these big PvPers, they are mission runners for their empire, and you know doing their thing. While the ships will be really good at PvP, they will have things like bigger cargo bays for loot. They will have better locking times, better tracking, a lot of utility slots. Things that if you are a mission runner, what would be your ideal battle ship.ö
Kal Shakai	Posted - 2007.09.03 08:15:00 - [124] I'm highly intrigued by the Black Ops idea being proposed. I could see something along the idea of a deep infiltration BS sized recon ship. My primary concern would be to drastically reduce BS DPS in order to get these cool new features. The story being something like needing turret power and drone bay space to make resources available to the capital size jump drive. The idea would be to build on the Apoc, Megathron, Scorpion and Tempest for Black Ops leaving the Domi, Geddon, Phoon and Raven for their T2 mission ships. Just a random idea I had based on the Megathron: Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage and 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level. Black Ops Ships Skill Bonus: 15% reduction (enough?) in jump drive fuel consumption per level and -95% to -99% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level Role Bonus: 50% reduction in turret and launcher rate of fire (similar to the destroyer role bonus but harsher) and 50m3 reduction in drone bay space Skills Required: Primary: Gallente Battleship V Secondary: Black Ops Ships 1 (Rank 10 and requires Recon Ships IV or V) Tertiary: Jump Drive Operation I Ship Changes: boost grid slightly boost cpu one additional Mid slot increased T2 resists in line with cruiser -->> recon ships slight speed reduction any other changes in line with cruiser -->> recons Would you still use it? It would be hard to carry cap charges and jump fuel for example. It can cloak and tank extremely well but would you try to gank another BS with this reduced dps?
Darth Felin	Posted - 2007.09.03 10:47:00 - [125] Still I really hope that there will be not cover ops cloak on BS sized ships. Jumpgate + frigate sized jumpbridge will be more than enough to make battleship "Black Ops"
Zerode	Posted - 2007.09.03 15:59:00 - [126] Why the @#%$ do everyone say no to uber damage dealing BSs in the T2 design of BSs? I don't give a rats ass about T1 BSs, they will go the same ways as t1 crusers have, that's down the drain. Be nice to have a new top dog in non capital ships to hunt anything T1 and capital in
OneSock Silentia Mortalis	Posted - 2007.09.03 16:41:00 - [127] How about a Tank BS for Lev5 missions? Carriers cannot use the acceleration gates but this would be able to. Sit it between BS and Carrier/Dread with a mixture of the three feature wise. Useful for lev 5 missions in low sec and other stuff in 0.0. Don't allow it into high sec. Don't want to make lv4 missions totally afk Would also be nice to have it's own short range jump drive but give us casual players a break and not need a cyno alt for jumping it.
Carter Burke	Posted - 2007.09.03 17:08:00 - [128] Originally by: OneSock Would also be nice to have it's own short range jump drive but give us casual players a break and not need a cyno alt for jumping it. Actually, you've got a great idea there - I'd suggest the thing generate its own jump portal without a cyno, but maybe be limited in what could pass that portal to BC or lower along with the flagship, and make the jump available only to squad- or wing-mates. Thus you have a great leader for a raid into enemy territory, fitting the idea the devs have expressed about 'highly mobile task forces'. That would be cool. CB

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