Originally by: Removal Tool

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The Hitpoint doubling buff was way too much. A 25% damage increase is the fix.

Sound off like you've got a pair peeps!!!

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Originally by: Blind Man

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joke

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Originally by: Tista

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Originally by: Blind Man

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joke

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Seriously Blind man you look like such a**** in ur sig.. please change it..

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Originally by: Tista

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Originally by: Blind Man

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joke

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Seriously Blind man you look like such a**** in ur sig.. please change it..

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Originally by: Drasked

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Originally by: Tista

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Originally by: Blind Man

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joke

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Seriously Blind man you look like such a**** in ur sig.. please change it..

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Isn't that frodo?

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Quote:

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but a further 25 % hp boost would be welcome.

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Originally by: CCP Sharkbait

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we are screwed.

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Originally by: Crescens

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Stronger tanking encourages blobbing. If you can't break someone's tank on your own, you HAVE to bring a blob. Taking longer to kill someone gives more time for their friends to warp in and gank you. The difference between dying in 15 seconds and dying in 10 seconds in a fleet fight (which you don't even see because you get a new frame every 30 seconds) is not worth making it impossible for smaller/fewer ships to kill stuff in a reasonable time frame. So yeah, increased damage/less hp all the way.

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Originally by: fire 59

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It's fine as it is tbh. me and 2 inties took down a t2 torp raven in the middle of nowhere, was a fun and tactical fight, don't want to go back to instapop gankage thanx very much. Now you have to use tactics and your brain which is good imo

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Originally by: Earthan

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Originally by: fire 59

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It's fine as it is tbh. me and 2 inties took down a t2 torp raven in the middle of nowhere, was a fun and tactical fight, don't want to go back to instapop gankage thanx very much. Now you have to use tactics and your brain which is good imo

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damn i agree with BOB for once.

Nice stuff kiliing raven with 3 inties, impressive

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Originally by: Ralara

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Originally by: Tista

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Originally by: Blind Man

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joke

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Seriously Blind man you look like such a**** in ur sig.. please change it..

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Ralara thinks he looks quite cute actually.

I don't, but Ralara does.

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Originally by: Removal Tool

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Wow. No-one gets the idea? As we all know we had a huge HP buff which has amounted to less choices for PVP. Peeps are leaving and are bored if they are not leaving. So a 25% damage increase would give some of that flexibility back.

As it is, it's all about blobs now. So my suggestion is a compromise. I am really suprised that not one person other than me sees the benefit to a damage increase.

And I can only imagine that the peeps that say that a damage increase would require an additional hitpoint buff (that would defeat the purpose)are new to the game so are not aware of our previous huge HP buff?

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Originally by: Frug

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Just torps. Torps are depressingly weak given the explosion is the size of a small moon.

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Originally by: Ralara

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Originally by: Tista

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Originally by: Blind Man

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joke

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Seriously Blind man you look like such a**** in ur sig.. please change it..

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Ralara thinks he looks quite cute actually.

I don't, but Ralara does.

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Originally by: Neener

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Problem with straight HP boost is that it benefits short range (high dps) setups way more than long range ones.

Lets take 2 ships for example.
Standrad torpedo raven against blaster megathron.

When everyone is given straight 50% hp boost, it becomes way more difficult to kill that blaster mega with your trusty raven.

Reasoning behind it is pretty simple: If mega gets in blaster range, you can kiss your ass goodbye in that raven. And when mega has 50% more HP than before, it has lot more time to get in range (ie: less fear that it gets popped before it gets in blaster range). And when in range, doesnt matter if raven has 50% or 200% more hp, its going down and fast.

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Originally by: Earthan

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well mate i challenge you and any of your 2 friends in inties me alone in raven.

we will see how it ends...

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Originally by: Judas Lonestar

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Originally by: Frug

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Just torps. Torps are depressingly weak given the explosion is the size of a small moon.

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Agreed! The first time I saw a torp explosion I almost crapped. Me and a buddy were tag teamin a Lvl 4, I thought I would be picking up the tankness in about 3 seconds.

Few minutes later.... "You ok" "Yeah, no worries"

Those torps have lots of flash, but end up being a fizzle.

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Originally by: Korizan

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Edited by: Korizan on 23/05/2007 14:46:24
Edited by: Korizan on 23/05/2007 14:45:14

Sorry but battles are supposed to take time not insta pop.

CCP is taking a serious look a focused fire which should help with the blob tactics.

Decreasing the hit points will not really help.
It will not decrease blobs cause people will not need as many ships BUT they will still use as many as they can get there hands on.

Now if focused fire comes into effect then blobbing someone will be useless.

Here is an example on how focus fire could work.
Modifier is based on target ship size.
Shuttle say is modifer = 2/x
Where x is a number that is assigned as each person targets a ship.
So first person gets a 1 the second person to target gets a 2 the third 3 on and on.

So ship 1 mod. = 2/1 or 100 % no modifer on weapons
Ship 2 mod. = 2/2 or 100 %
ship 3 mod. = 2/3 or 66 % or it max damage will be only 66 % of normal
ship 4 mod = 2/4 or 50 %
And on and on it goes.

As you can see it goes down hill rapidly the more ships you use.
And as stated above you use a different formula for each ship class depending on how you want to limit the blob.

Now depending on the modifer in some cases calling for 20 friends is useless.

AND that means it will not be as simple as calling primary for your blob but better to break it up and handle more targets at once ... STRATEGY

So NO to decrease in armor / shields and YES to FOCUS FIRE

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Originally by: JP Beauregard

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The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....

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Originally by: Earthan

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Blasterships hit ok up to 8 km so imho they shuld have edge over oany other 1-1 if they land not to far.

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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Originally by: Korizan

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Edited by: Korizan on 23/05/2007 14:46:24
Edited by: Korizan on 23/05/2007 14:45:14

Sorry but battles are supposed to take time not insta pop.

CCP is taking a serious look a focused fire which should help with the blob tactics.

Decreasing the hit points will not really help.
It will not decrease blobs cause people will not need as many ships BUT they will still use as many as they can get there hands on.

Now if focused fire comes into effect then blobbing someone will be useless.

Here is an example on how focus fire could work.
Modifier is based on target ship size.
Shuttle say is modifer = 2/x
Where x is a number that is assigned as each person targets a ship.
So first person gets a 1 the second person to target gets a 2 the third 3 on and on.

So ship 1 mod. = 2/1 or 100 % no modifer on weapons
Ship 2 mod. = 2/2 or 100 %
ship 3 mod. = 2/3 or 66 % or it max damage will be only 66 % of normal
ship 4 mod = 2/4 or 50 %
And on and on it goes.

As you can see it goes down hill rapidly the more ships you use.
And as stated above you use a different formula for each ship class depending on how you want to limit the blob.

Now depending on the modifer in some cases calling for 20 friends is useless.

AND that means it will not be as simple as calling primary for your blob but better to break it up and handle more targets at once ... STRATEGY

So NO to decrease in armor / shields and YES to FOCUS FIRE

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This will also introduce indestructible ships if not balanced right. See the BC shield recharge nerf. If you cannot bring more friends to help your damage (or they are useless) then there's a good chance that indestructible setups will pop up.

Given the track record of CCP (nanoships f.e.) this is extremely likely to happen.

EVE is depresingly lacking in non-damage options to disable/take down an enemy.

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Originally by: fire 59

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It's fine as it is tbh. me and 2 inties took down a t2 torp raven in the middle of nowhere, was a fun and tactical fight, don't want to go back to instapop gankage thanx very much. Now you have to use tactics and your brain which is good imo

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Originally by: SiJira

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Edited by: SiJira on 23/05/2007 17:24:14
the problem with focused fire is its gonna make it real stupid and leave lots of room for exploiting like having an alt shoot at you with nearly no damage

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Originally by: Korizan

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Edited by: Korizan on 23/05/2007 14:46:24
Edited by: Korizan on 23/05/2007 14:45:14

Sorry but battles are supposed to take time not insta pop.

CCP is taking a serious look a focused fire which should help with the blob tactics.

Decreasing the hit points will not really help.
It will not decrease blobs cause people will not need as many ships BUT they will still use as many as they can get there hands on.

Now if focused fire comes into effect then blobbing someone will be useless.

Here is an example on how focus fire could work.
Modifier is based on target ship size.
Shuttle say is modifer = 2/x
Where x is a number that is assigned as each person targets a ship.
So first person gets a 1 the second person to target gets a 2 the third 3 on and on.

So ship 1 mod. = 2/1 or 100 % no modifer on weapons
Ship 2 mod. = 2/2 or 100 %
ship 3 mod. = 2/3 or 66 % or it max damage will be only 66 % of normal
ship 4 mod = 2/4 or 50 %
And on and on it goes.

As you can see it goes down hill rapidly the more ships you use.
And as stated above you use a different formula for each ship class depending on how you want to limit the blob.

Now depending on the modifer in some cases calling for 20 friends is useless.

AND that means it will not be as simple as calling primary for your blob but better to break it up and handle more targets at once ... STRATEGY

So NO to decrease in armor / shields and YES to FOCUS FIRE

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Originally by: Deep Throat

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the op has a point

perhaps his solution isnt right, but ccps methood of prolonging combat has backfired with a capital B.

once they removed the damage, ppl just blobbed.
ganksquads are now 25-30 ppl
fights dont happen unless the gangs are in the 100s
this on top of the titan doomsday combat-freezer.

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Originally by: Utopiana

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Originally by: Judas Lonestar

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Originally by: Frug

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Just torps. Torps are depressingly weak given the explosion is the size of a small moon.

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Agreed! The first time I saw a torp explosion I almost crapped. Me and a buddy were tag teamin a Lvl 4, I thought I would be picking up the tankness in about 3 seconds.

Few minutes later.... "You ok" "Yeah, no worries"

Those torps have lots of flash, but end up being a fizzle.

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So the solution to that problem would just to make the explosions lesser.

What does more damage to a hull in space, a single projectile penetrating the hull or atomic explotion enveloping the ship protectec by a shield.

if you throw thousand nails on a person protected by kewlar from your hand dosnt mean it will do more damage then the single bolt from your crossbow at the same range, just cause it look more violent at first sight.

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Originally by: ForumPosterAlt

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Fix lasers to not use capacitor and instead use ammo like charges.

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Originally by: Removal Tool

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My point was about the lack of options that the HP doubling buff left small gangs or solo pilots.

So a 25% damage increase would not bring us back to the pre-buff status quo, (a doubling of shield, armor, and hull keep in mind). Instead it would give back something like 15-20% faster kills, but not the insta-pop of before. I wouldn't have suggested that we completely roll back the HP buff. But I am baffled by anyone wanting MORE HPs than we have now.

I am not even against fleet combat, but wish it wasn't almost the only choice.

Maybe "Heat" will bring about a similar result to what I propose, but then my proposal would be so much simpler.

And to Earthan: Why would you want even more HP? I'm at work atm so I cannot check the age of your character. Were you around before the MAJOR HP buff?

I ask that since more HP would mean that in combat, there would be more time for buddies to arrive, which would lead to more lag, and more badly broken PVP. This is essentially what we have to some degree now.

Again, I am NOT suggesting that we go back to insta-pop PvP, but a happy medium between the two extremes. Personally I enjoy EVE much less with the current "more time organizing / less PvPing" status quo that I feel we have atm.

And almost every player that I know (yes these are veteran players) enjoys EVE much less than they used to. I feel that way too. What changed? The HP buff. And that is
even when we have more SP than we did before the HP buff.

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Originally by: murder one

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I was going to reply with something inciteful and intelligent, but alas, this thread is complete crap.

We don't need a 25% HP buff. We also don't need a 25% damage increase. What we need is T2 ammo back the way it was (damage wise, and range wise). I think that should suffice.[/quot

Only if all the weapons out there can use T2 ammo. The problem with T2 ammo, was that _in addition_ to the 'best' guns, with a T2 damage bonus, they got an additional bonus in the form of T2 ammo. That was ... just a bit sick really.

T2's an advantage already, I don't see a need to make it a 'T2 or go home n00b' level of advantage.

Quote:

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I was going to reply with something inciteful and intelligent, but alas, this thread is complete crap.

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Originally by: Removal Tool

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The OP, me, never suggested any HP buff. And I agree that un-nerfing T2 ammo would be an acceptable solution, or whatever Heat will do to change PVP, maybe.

But if you are suggesting that a 25% damage increase

Quote:

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I was going to reply with something inciteful and intelligent, but alas, this thread is complete crap.

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is "complete crap".....but T2 ammo buff is a completely different idea in the end result?

It's just an idea to make the game fun again.

And Earthan, you mis-read what I wrote. I wrote that the veteran players "That I Know", are either leaving the game or are bored now with EVE, I did not say "everyone".

So I must be wrong then, Solo PVP is thriving right?

Sheesh, it is disappointing that peeps troll and add nothing "1000% HP Increase" or don't bother to read and understand the situation that I am speaking to.

But Earthan, I did like the story of 3 Inty's ganking a Raven. That is cool. It would have been less cool if the Raven pilot's buddies had time to warp 10 systems to defend him if he had been using a nice tank. Then you might be thinking "Man if he didn't have that amazing tank we could have had him, but as always PVP takes so long now that there is time for the cavalry to arrive".

That's my point. If pilot X has friends within a region and a nice tank, there is a good chance that pilot X is effectivley unvulnerable.

p.s. No I don't want EVE to become CS, and yes I agree that PVP was too short before the HP buff.

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Originally by: Frug

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Just torps. Torps are depressingly weak given the explosion is the size of a small moon.

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Originally by: TRYPTIC

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Oh, btw....will all you people do some kind of spell check before you post. I think I spend just as much time decoding/interpreting your post as I do reading it.

GRAMMAR AND SPELLING ARE YOUR FRIENDS :)

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Originally by: Earthan

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I will give you my not long ago fight example.

It was a fight of me in dominix, one friendly tempest both close range.

The enemy was armougeddon, raven and tempest.

first they baited my domi with armougeddon before station, i knew it was bait but decided to take it.

the battle started we attakced armougeddona as primary , enemy raven and tempest jumped in at ~60 km being prolly setup with high dmg little tank.

they focused at my domi as primary and i started to go down slowly.

The tempest started to remote rep me at some point and i stablized.

The fight went for a moment .Meanwhile i to realized something was wrong as armougeddon took ages to go even alittle down.I wanted to target other bs and change targets but realized they are far away.

Meanwhile enmy started to shoot my drones instead of me, but after a few mins when i was popping new ones and armougeddon was still going slowly down they changed again tactics.

Sussdenly i noticed mt armour got nearly tottaly repped and tought i nossed the armougeddon dry so it sless dmg.But suddenly i relaized the dmg went on tempest wich was going down!! So i started instead remote reppign him.It worked, enemy changed fire a few times but we hold good.The armougeddon stopped agrssing and tried to near station but we had him double webbed.

After some mor etime armougeddon exploded, we took loot and warped out( 3 jumps away is a system with plenty of enemies and it took long enough).Warped back to station docked.

after reviewing loot and killmail it become apparent the armougeddon was trap with ****load of rolled tungsten plates and faction hardeners:).

was really nice fight and it was great it lasted so long.

I call it a new( new old really as in past past was alike) quality compared to f1-f8 10 secs passed we won or lost....

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Originally by: Neener

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Originally by: Earthan

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Blasterships hit ok up to 8 km so imho they shuld have edge over oany other 1-1 if they land not to far.

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Problem is that 'edge' gets bigger and bigger every time they buff ship hp.

Was it balanced before HP boost?
Is it balanced now?
Would it be balanced if they buff hp even more?

Problem is: wheres the line until only viable tactic is to fit mwd and blasters on your ship.

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Originally by: TRYPTIC

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Oh, btw....will all you people do some kind of spell check before you post. I think I spend just as much time decoding/interpreting your post as I do reading it.

GRAMMAR AND SPELLING ARE YOUR FRIENDS :)

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Originally by: Frug

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Just torps. Torps are depressingly weak given the explosion is the size of a small moon.

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Originally by: CCP Tuxford

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I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.

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Originally by: Removal Tool

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Wow. No-one gets the idea? As we all know we had a huge HP buff which has amounted to less choices for PVP. Peeps are leaving and are bored if they are not leaving. So a 25% damage increase would give some of that flexibility back.

As it is, it's all about blobs now. So my suggestion is a compromise. I am really suprised that not one person other than me sees the benefit to a damage increase.

And I can only imagine that the peeps that say that a damage increase would require an additional hitpoint buff (that would defeat the purpose)are new to the game so are not aware of our previous huge HP buff?

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