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Update on investigation into allegations of misconduct

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:32:00 - [481] yay the goons charged how devs deal with corps!!! huzzah! good work, the goons are making eve much better for all of us. if you don't know what I mean read the lasty part of the op. that makes so much sense that I can't even understand why it hasn't been there before.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:32:00 - [482] yay the goons charged how devs deal with corps!!! huzzah! good work, the goons are making eve much better for all of us. if you don't know what I mean read the lasty part of the op. that makes so much sense that I can't even understand why it hasn't been there before.
Isis Dea Minmatar Aspi-Vore Xenosaders North Star Confederation	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:36:00 - [483] Originally by: Borasao I'm wondering why they're wasting time acting like they are investigating anything... we all know that they are going to 'review all the relevant facts' and find 'nothing inappropriate was done' in any of the recent allegations and start a thread for each saying such. I guess the delays are to pretend that they're doing something. Who knows... CCP could be taking this time to simply come up with a loop hole (excuse) out of this mess such as T20. Either way, for a player just over his first six months or so of getting involved in Eve, this mess, both the aspects of Band Of Brothers (and their reputation), and of CCP in player affairs... it all looks massively depressing. Well, it's Monday, this mess has gone on for a good few days now, perhaps tomorrow we'll have better answers from CCP and the other issues addressed will perhaps also be solved. ___
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:43:00 - [484] Originally by: Borasao I'm wondering why they're wasting time acting like they are investigating anything... we all know that they are going to 'review all the relevant facts' and find 'nothing inappropriate was done' in any of the recent allegations and start a thread for each saying such. I guess the delays are to pretend that they're doing something. Hmmm.. or it could be that no matter what they say you wont believe them. Why? Because you had your mind made up already or maybe its the follow the heard syndrome because not being part of the heard... isnt popular. Keep in mind they are just allegations not facts. Maybe.. just maybe the delay could be the fact the drama bomb hit just before the weekend which for some is a holiday weekend. The timing of this all is fishy if you ask me. Oh and one more thing.. dont include me when you say "we all" because believe it or not we all dont feel the same way.
Chris Smith	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:46:00 - [485] You all keep asking for issue's to be resolved only issue I see is goons being sore losers. CCP can you do an investigation on this and let us know the results. I promise they wont come back negative.
Mister Spanky Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:47:00 - [486] The final issue is very different from the others. They've addressed them first because it's a simple case of checking server logs and other records. The issue about MSN is one of policy. In order to have a policy review you need to get all the important people together and sit them all down in the same place at the same time to discuss the matter in depth. That takes time to organize in any company, even small ones. Give them time. ---------------------------------------------------
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:51:00 - [487] Originally by: mr bighelmet you may want to reread his latter, the ISD guy admit he warp to 1 yard from the dreads. Those dread whare in battle not with him but with other people who seem to be members of at that time his alt corp, and by jumping that close he bump them kind of strange action from someone who is supposed to be neutral and then he refused to leave the area something that by the rules that ISD follow to he must do. Incorrect. The ISD guy did NOT warp to anyone. He teleported himself to a person he knew to be in the sytem. Warping and teleporting are different mechanics, and as far as I can tell, when one teleports one cannot choose at what distance he arrives, nor does he move like after a warp, which makes the threat of bumping entirely different. So we don't have an ISD guy 'maliciously' 'warping' to a BoB dread, we have an ISD guy 'just' 'teleporting' next to a BoB dread. And ISD never listens to demands from people as far as my experience goes, the only reason they generally live to see a battle is because their ships can't be logged. Noone I know ever wanted to allow an ISD guy to stay at a battle. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
ho chiminh Gallente SlackaNova	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:19:00 - [488] Honestly who cares. Hope all you Bobbers and Goonies and all you other alliance weenies leave. You've stayed too long. You've made too much US$ selling your Isk and Faction Ships and T2 Modules and Rigs on E-Bay. Please send your passwords for your E-Bay accounts, Pos's and Pos Shields to Ho ingame. SlackaNova will accept all of your stuff via contract. Ho would like to thank you all for your departing efforts to reduce lag. And don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.
Steph Wing Gallente The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:21:00 - [489] Originally by: CCP Arkanon As kieron said, deleting petitions is practically impossible and you'd be a fool to even try such a thing simply because to do so would put the person's job at risk of termination. Sort of like how spawning T2 BPOs for one's alliance would put one's job at risk of termination? Or would it be more like how bumping a ship not engaged in combat puts one's job at risk of termination? About TGRAD
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:22:00 - [490] Originally by: UnIQu3 Originally by: Mister Spanky Originally by: UnIQu3 What we in DS1 been asking for, is for a communication line between CCP and us, and we stil asking. If they could contact us in-game, tell us who peitioned, that lead to Sharkbait joining our corp. That would help us greatly! So IA, please contact us, so we can settle this. I was very disturbed to learn that nobody from CCP even bothered to contact DS1 during their "extensive investigation." You would think that talking to the people who originated the complaint would have been the first thing they did. I'm also very concerned about Keiron's utterly unprofessional attitude in this matter. This is not the first time he's made a reprehensible comment of that kind. The reason a lot of people believe Keiron is a BoB member is because he behaves exactly like one: 1. Deny everything. 2. Blame the Goons for "trouble making". 3. Fall strangely silent when they are proven right. Keiron told us during the T20 affair that it was impossible for a Dev to spawn BPO's and that it was all GoonSwarm's fault anyway because they talked about it on the forums and then BAM T20 admits to having spawned BPO's. Now he's telling us that it's not possible to delete petitions, (laughable if you've ever filed one) and that's its all the Goons fault anyway because thay talked about it on the forums... Keiron, you really need some training on customer relations because no matter what the issue is you don't ever pass comment on things you don't fully understand and you never, ever scapegoat a section of your customer base and try to blame them for your own internal failings. PS: The guys in DS1 aren't actually Goons, you know. If I remember correctly they're a former Prime Orbital Systems corp who joined GS recently because of time zone considerations. They're very well established Eve Players and have no reason whatsoever to be a part of your imagined "Goon Conspiracy." Former ASCN and Ka-tet :) But i do agree, i feel sad kieron just making us look like liars, but then again - we dont seal your lines... So anytime CCP is welcome to contact us, it will be alot easier if they could explain it to us, it would be alot easier for DS1 say, hi ok - its true there was a bug. Now THAT would say welldone CCP, you investigated this good. Right now, we in a boat where we cant confirm or defirm if its true, and instead kieron wants us to ask a question why it suddenly got a huge thing after 3 weeks. Thats the easiest, CEO didnt find the mail after that time? Regards UnIQu3 Looking forward for you to contact DS1 Thank you for this Post. I agree

Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:33:00 - [491] What do us tell this behavier of Internal Affairs over Internal Affairs ?
Deus Ex'Machina Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:48:00 - [492] Originally by: Richard Johannson Originally by: Reachok Originally by: Vantras How having a direct line to the "gods of the game" or the referees is not seen as a major conflict of interest is amazing to me... Picture if you will a soccer (football game). . Two teams on the field battling it out for the world cup championships. The score is 2 to 2, 10 minutes left. Coach A gets on his walkie talkie and starts chatting with the referee currently on the field refereeing the game! Coach B looks for his walkie talkie and finds none! Would anyone accept "hey man...coach A and that referee are just buddies--theyre talking about stuff unrelated to the game". The fact that they are friends is irrelevant, the fact that they "say" theyre talking about things unrelated to the game is irrelevant. The perception is !! yes PERCEPTION IS! that one team is getting an unfair advantage over another. Now we have our little game, we have a past record of bad behavior between Coach A and the Referee...theyve been caught breaking the rules before. We fast forward and we have Coach A declaring to the entire stadium "YES IM TALKING TO THAT REFEREE OUT THERE ON THE FIELD-STOP WHINING YOU ARE JUST JEALOUS OF US"... rofl...are you kidding ! QFT This is probably the best analogy I've seen yet! Well put. I dont agree with you that this is a good example, because that Referee would not judge a Soccergame after caught cheating in the first place. It's a perfect example because it seems the referee is also the competition manager, yeah... conflict of interests all the way. - Arkanon: EXPLAIN YOURSELF, EVILDOER! Sharkbait: Dude. True amarr tank shields!
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:53:00 - [493] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Sentinel Eeex You must be joking me I never was a corp CEO nor ever needed to find out details about corp related petitions, but if I was a CEO and CCP would tell me I can't know who from my corp petitioned my POS, for example... perfect for conspiracy theories. No wonder DS1 guys are **ed off, tbh. Well done CCP. Another 'feature' that can only bring more doubts... Well in a world where its normal to infiltrate other corps to steal their assests or shutdown their pos's petitions should be as private as they are, it only makes sense. Really? I bet it makes sense to have devs on MSN for you too, eh? If it is logical for you that one person in corp can ruin work of hundred others, than fair enough. Someone being able to make petition for corp related stuff and never be uncovered - that's ***** metagaming, not gaming. Just get your GM on MSN, petition that your POSes won't go offline due to a bug, and have GM offline the POSes. Hey - petition is there, isn't it? Everything is legal. Only trouble is that corp CEO or memebers will never find out about it. So logical.
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:53:00 - [494] Originally by: ho chiminh Honestly who cares. Hope all you Bobbers and Goonies and all you other alliance weenies leave. You've stayed too long. Wow, unbelivable but i agree with you on that...
Borasao	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:58:00 - [495] Originally by: Shar'Tuk TheHated Edited by: Shar''Tuk TheHated on 28/05/2007 22:50:43 Originally by: Borasao I'm wondering why they're wasting time acting like they are investigating anything... we all know that they are going to 'review all the relevant facts' and find 'nothing inappropriate was done' in any of the recent allegations and start a thread for each saying such. I guess the delays are to pretend that they're doing something. Hmmm.. or it could be that no matter what they say you wont believe them. Why? Because you had your mind made up already or maybe its the follow the herd syndrome because not being part of the herd... isnt popular. Keep in mind they are just allegations not facts. Maybe.. just maybe the delay could be the fact the drama bomb hit just before the weekend which for some is a holiday weekend. The timing of this all is fishy if you ask me. Oh and one more thing.. dont include me when you say "we all" because believe it or not we all dont feel the same way. Edit: spelling That there is a conflict of interest in all this is undeniable whether you "believe" it or not. That CCP maintains that it's "OK" to have such a conflict of interest is telling to a high degree, whether you "believe" it or not. That CCP has already admitted that this conflict of interest has caused problems in the past has already been documented (t20) and is not subject to "belief". That you continue to "believe" CCP is innocent is, well, against better judgement. There are sayings about this type of behavior... "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". How many times are you going to have to be fooled before you start to "believe" that something is fishy in Iceland?
Morgain dVher Minmatar The Rat Pack	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:03:00 - [496] Originally by: Kaplanelle Originally by: CCP kieron The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition. Whoa, back up there pal. That's not the tone you take with paying customers, ever. People can have honest misunderstandings, and CCP shouldn't be alledging anything different unless they have absolute proof otherwise. This was a customer service failure on CCPs part by not having enough customer contact. Why you're takings such a customer hostile stance makes me wonder what your employer is thinking allowing the community manager take up that kind of attitude. Agreed. From what I've read, and I'm masochistic enough that I've read all, currently, 160 pages of the discussion on this, The CEOs of the corp in question were quite respectful when discussing this. Kieron, I can understand you are irritated at having your holiday ruined. I can't blame you. But both the substance and the content of this statement is doing more harm than good. M we do not, and never have tolarated to even a slight degree, any cheating within EVE. We are much too fully aware of the possible consequences of allowing any cheating to go on among the GM's.
Steph Wing Gallente The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:15:00 - [497] Originally by: Kaplanelle Originally by: CCP kieron The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition. Whoa, back up there pal. That's not the tone you take with paying customers, ever. People can have honest misunderstandings, and CCP shouldn't be alledging anything different unless they have absolute proof otherwise. This was a customer service failure on CCPs part by not having enough customer contact. Why you're takings such a customer hostile stance makes me wonder what your employer is thinking allowing the community manager take up that kind of attitude. /signed About TGRAD
Goti Evans	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:17:00 - [498] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 28/05/2007 19:08:37 You're also totally ignoring how the people who've organised this whole affair have very carefully staged it so it causes maximum damage to the game. First of all, the petition they claim they sent doesn't seem to exist (i.e. they lied about that), secondly, even if they actually HAD sent it they allowed CCP a full 4 hours (and 2 minutes) by their own numbers before they started their assault. And funny enough, this was timed exactly around 1800 on a friday evening just before a holiday weekend where they were sure most CCP people were not at work, and was carefully coordinated with mass cross-posting across the net aimed not at getting the issues resolved, but in causing mass damage to the game. They're not interested in resolving the issues raised. They're not interested in playing EVE. Their interest in online games is destroying them for other people. Something similer to this ran passed my mind it really does seem a little strange although I personaly would say it was industrial espoinage from other MMORPGS Companys trying to blow up the good thing eve has going. - follow the money. Throws Away Tin foiled hat and invests in a room with 5 foot thick lead lineing Thing is with computers is that to a sufficently determind indervidule there is just about nothing that is impossible. yes theroeticly some one might of deleated a parttion and the paper trail it would leave how ever the inderviduel who did this would need to have some serious Knowlege of the database(s) in question and any third party logging that may be inplace. frankly outside of someone who could do this sort of thing as part of there normal duties (which would not include GM's or in fact just about everyone that works on the live server and ergo relivent rights.) there will be few inderviduals with the skills to do this at CCP therefore there are at least two people involved in a cover up if one exists Now people get nervey when asked to do things that may involve imediate fireage so it is logical to asume there is also blackmail occuring in this scenario. frankly though I cant see any one who has a stable enough mental state to be employed by ccp to get so wraped up in a game that they want to tilt the table in there favour....mind you that beer might have some side effects ;) even if such an inderviule was employed I rather suspect that there ego will get the better of them, they will stick out like a sore thumb and posibly even gloat. many criminals talk them selves into jail. I can see at least one reason why sharkbait would need to be in the corp with permissions and simply put its that the UI is not reporting things as they are in the database, or is indded bugged its self. frankly speaking from experiance it can be a lot quicker and easiyer to understand something and work out why that might be happening from virtuly beeing there then to looking up dry facts and figgers in a database, and an often badly explianed (and spelled yes I do know.......) support request. If there is some conspiricy it will out in the end. the end may be 10 years or it maybe tomorrow. nothing said here will make a diference one way or the other.
Pseudothei GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:23:00 - [499] Edited by: Pseudothei on 28/05/2007 23:22:31 Originally by: kieron The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition. My understanding is because Sharkbait closed and/or deleted any and all petitions concerning why he had entered the corp, he also ignored all tries by the DS1 CEO to ask him in game on why he had entered the corp. Put in context of CCP's past record of dealing with cheating it shouldn't be that hard to understand why it was brought up.
Dominique Parr Taggart Transdimensional	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:34:00 - [500] Originally by: Pseudothei Edited by: Pseudothei on 28/05/2007 23:22:31 Originally by: kieron The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition. My understanding is because Sharkbait closed and/or deleted any and all petitions concerning why he had entered the corp, he also ignored all tries by the DS1 CEO to ask him in game on why he had entered the corp. And the results of the Investigation are that he did nothing afoul. Just his job. No report of Deleted logs showing any Error on the part of Sharkbait. You have a game official saying that Petitions can not be deleted. Yet you still push the point. Originally by: Pseudothei Put in context of CCP's past record of dealing with cheating it shouldn't be that hard to understand why it was brought up. T20 was the involved guilty party. Yet you are judging the whole of CCP on this one individual. Honestly, it's hard to get the truth when you're only looking for one particular response. _______________ If you see me posting on the forums, I'm probably in game bored out of my mind mining.

Pseudothei GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:38:00 - [501] Edited by: Pseudothei on 28/05/2007 23:38:48 Originally by: Dominique Parr Originally by: Pseudothei Edited by: Pseudothei on 28/05/2007 23:22:31 Originally by: kieron The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition. My understanding is because Sharkbait closed and/or deleted any and all petitions concerning why he had entered the corp, he also ignored all tries by the DS1 CEO to ask him in game on why he had entered the corp. And the results of the Investigation are that he did nothing afoul. Just his job. No report of Deleted logs showing any Error on the part of Sharkbait. You have a game official saying that Petitions can not be deleted. Yet you still push the point. No, I answered the question as to why it was brought up. Regarding deleting petitions, that's a load of bull, anyone that has administrative access (like Admiral CkdkjhdkjdhuhWhatsHisName), or even acces to _one_ account that has delete priviliges to the MSSQL server can do that. The point is that the petitions and all efforts to get an answer went ignored. Quote: Originally by: Pseudothei Put in context of CCP's past record of dealing with cheating it shouldn't be that hard to understand why it was brought up. T20 was the involved guilty party. Yet you are judging the whole of CCP on this one individual. Honestly, it's hard to get the truth when you're only looking for one particular response. T20, and the handling of that incident, has shown the problem is much bigger and probably quite ingrained in the company. It probably isn't helping that they're hiring young long-time gamers to GM for them, actually it probably compounds the problem.
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:43:00 - [502] Originally by: Borasao Originally by: Shar'Tuk TheHated Edited by: Shar''Tuk TheHated on 28/05/2007 22:50:43 Originally by: Borasao I'm wondering why they're wasting time acting like they are investigating anything... we all know that they are going to 'review all the relevant facts' and find 'nothing inappropriate was done' in any of the recent allegations and start a thread for each saying such. I guess the delays are to pretend that they're doing something. Hmmm.. or it could be that no matter what they say you wont believe them. Why? Because you had your mind made up already or maybe its the follow the herd syndrome because not being part of the herd... isnt popular. Keep in mind they are just allegations not facts. Maybe.. just maybe the delay could be the fact the drama bomb hit just before the weekend which for some is a holiday weekend. The timing of this all is fishy if you ask me. Oh and one more thing.. dont include me when you say "we all" because believe it or not we all dont feel the same way. Edit: spelling That there is a conflict of interest in all this is undeniable whether you "believe" it or not. That CCP maintains that it's "OK" to have such a conflict of interest is telling to a high degree, whether you "believe" it or not. That CCP has already admitted that this conflict of interest has caused problems in the past has already been documented (t20) and is not subject to "belief". That you continue to "believe" CCP is innocent is, well, against better judgement. There are sayings about this type of behavior... "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". How many times are you going to have to be fooled before you start to "believe" that something is fishy in Iceland? Ya your right, we might as well damn them forever for past bad deeds and pass judgement without proof. What was I thinking? Ahem.. anyhow if anything is found to be corrupt I would hope they will act swift and just because it isnt just a game to CCP. It pays the bills and turning the community againt themselves isnt going to pay the bills. So this ZOMG conspiracy CCP is out to get us all just doesnt fly with me.. sorry.
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:56:00 - [503] Originally by: Kerfira You're also totally ignoring how the people who've organised this whole affair have very carefully staged it so it causes maximum damage to the game. They're not interested in resolving the issues raised. They're not interested in playing EVE. I dont agree with you, i think the Goons make EVE better, because they want a fair and uncorrupt game. I thank the Goonis honestly to enlighten me. Beside its not only Goons its also DS1. Now tell me Einstein, how would you have resolved the different issues which are adressed here if they would happen to you? To your last point: Why?
Dominique Parr Taggart Transdimensional	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:56:00 - [504] Let's see if I can break down the logic I'm seeing Goons and supporters using concerning CCP and the T20 Incident. T20 = Richard Nixon CCP = Members of The US Government T20 rigged the T2 lottery system, therefore all of CCP is cheaters. = Richard Nixon rigged the elections, therefore all of members of the US Government are cheaters. Do you see where your logic is failing? You're applying the actions of one to a group. This is a simple logical fallacy. You may fool a few people into believing this, that's too be expected. We live in a society where people bought a rock as a pet. But it doesn't mean what you're saying is true. T20 was the first entirely Official Scandal that I know of regarding CCP developers. Of course the handling of this serious matter was met with confusion and poor judgement. You need to remember, CCP (as well as us) are only human, no one is ever perfect. Forgive and Forget, while forget is out of the picture, at least forgive. _______________ If you see me posting on the forums, I'm probably in game bored out of my mind mining.
FuLeng TheTainted	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:02:00 - [505] Originally by: Dominique Parr Forgive and Forget, while forget is out of the picture, at least forgive. So how many time to you think the community needs to forgive in order to finally be able to trust again? Didn't we all just forgive last time?
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:04:00 - [506] Originally by: Richard Johannson i think the Goons make EVE better, because they want a fair and uncorrupt game. I would hardly consider a modified client, which gives an advantage over other players, is the sort of thing an alliance interested in fair play would use. The Goons are interested in themselves, not Eve, not fairplay (they shun the idea of respect and honor on the internet), not CCP, not the Eve community, just them and their community. Still, I am sure they are very glad to be able to count on your support. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Dominique Parr Taggart Transdimensional	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:04:00 - [507] Originally by: FuLeng TheTainted Originally by: Dominique Parr Forgive and Forget, while forget is out of the picture, at least forgive. So how many time to you think the community needs to forgive in order to finally be able to trust again? Didn't we all just forgive last time? Apparently not, since the arguements keeps claiming CCP can't be trusted, they did it once, they'll do it again. _______________ If you see me posting on the forums, I'm probably in game bored out of my mind mining.
FuLeng TheTainted	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:06:00 - [508] Originally by: Dominique Parr Originally by: FuLeng TheTainted Originally by: Dominique Parr Didn't we all just forgive last time? Apparently not, since the arguements keeps claiming CCP can't be trusted, they did it once, they'll do it again. I believe that's the "forget" part you yourself indicated not to do.
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:08:00 - [509] Originally by: Richard Johannson Originally by: Kerfira You're also totally ignoring how the people who've organised this whole affair have very carefully staged it so it causes maximum damage to the game. They're not interested in resolving the issues raised. They're not interested in playing EVE. I dont agree with you, i think the Goons make EVE better, because they want a fair and uncorrupt game. I thank the Goonis honestly to enlighten me. Beside its not only Goons its also DS1. Now tell me Einstein, how would you have resolved the different issues which are adressed here if they would happen to you? To your last point: Why? Wait a tick.. didnt goons get caught hacking accounts a while back? So saying Goons wanting a fair and uncorrupt game cant be 100% true. Maybe for many of the members but not every single Goon.. dont paint them out to be angels. And isnt DS1 part of Goons now? ...
Dominique Parr Taggart Transdimensional	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:09:00 - [510] Originally by: FuLeng TheTainted I believe that's the "forget" part you yourself indicated not to do. Forget = Never bring it up Forgive = "Well, we know you had some issues once, however we are willing to look past that, provided you can assure us a fair investigation." _______________ If you see me posting on the forums, I'm probably in game bored out of my mind mining.



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