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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Etien Aldragoran
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:17:00 -
[211]
Edited by: Etien Aldragoran on 28/05/2007 06:16:52
Originally by: Namingway Considering you people waited until the holiday weekend to maximize the damage since you, and your boss kugu know full well people would leave for the holiday, I think CCP is being rather kind. Yes, I'm saying the release of this information was planned by entities hostile towards CCP to cause as much damage as possible. How's that list of 'demands' coming along?
What holiday you moron? Is it a holiday weekend in Iceland? Cause I'm pretty sure Memorial Day is only an American holiday. Furthermore Kugutsmen isn't and never has been an actual part of the Swarm, let alone leadership. The fact that you make baseless and stupid assumptions degrades any points you might have to the point of being useless.
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Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:18:00 -
[212]
Edited by: Empyre on 28/05/2007 06:22:45 Edited by: Empyre on 28/05/2007 06:21:54
Originally by: Alois Hammer oh i like this......a few more posts about goonswarm making an issue out of this just might derail this post and the answers everyone actualy wants.... i as a corp owner would really love to know what is someones business that is not in my corp to post a pettition about my POS that a dev/gm need to join my corp for in the first place??? since as some here would suggest, they have the power to do whatever they want anyways. and if the dev has to be actualy in-game to do this magical trick , common courtesy would be at least to answer to the corp-person online whats going on.
and then where does it end? there was no wrong-doing. if you can prove otherwise, go for it but ccp just said they have found no evidence of that yet. you have to trust them or the politics in investigating every accusation without evidence would strangle the ability to put the resources where they belong, in running and furthering the game.
as others have said, if you don't trust the game makers then just leave and come back when you feel otherwise.. you'll never be convinced of anything but rumors conspiracy theories.
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran What holiday you moron? Is it a holiday weekend in Iceland? Cause I'm pretty sure Memorial Day is only an American holiday. Furthermore Kugutsmen isn't and never has been an actual part of the Swarm, let alone leadership. The fact that you make baseless and stupid assumptions degrades any points you might have to the point of being useless.
hahahahh trolling ccp? that's hilarious. someone get this man a rabies shot for crying out loud. better yet, get a video camera.. it worked for sobering up david hasselhoff.. i think.
and fyi, every point you've attempted to make has been baseless and assuming.. i would argue stupidly assuming easily, but that's my personal opinion. parents? teachers? no one has been able to teach you the value in thinking before you speak? or rather type as this would be.. which leads further to the confusion, in that typing you have much more time to think about what you say.
the fact you're intentionally speaking this way really disturbs me.
People argue when their personal views are at odds, whereas a debate is a more formal method of analyzing the angles of an issue
Removed empty image tag. -Rauth |
Namingway
Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:20:00 -
[213]
Originally by: ssorion
Originally by: CCP kieron It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.
So SQL queries do not work anymore ?
BTW, what a nice way to reply to paying customers, go on in same fashion, that will definitely make customers trust CCP more.
Hard to do SQL queries when you don't have to tools and account(s) needed isn't it?
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Etien Aldragoran
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:32:00 -
[214]
Edited by: Etien Aldragoran on 28/05/2007 06:33:53
Originally by: Dominique Parr
Iceland's Holiday that falls on this coming Monday
Then I stand corrected on that point. However accusing the Swarm of deliberately waiting till now to bring allegations to light is still completely ********, because there is nothing gained from waiting to produce evidence on purpose.
Originally by: Alice Chodemoy You really are the GoonSwarm idiot huh? Shouting, swearing and raving when things don't go your way. You are the typical Goon member that makes alot of people dislike GS. I'd suggest you take a long look at yourself and try to figure out where the disconnect in your brain happened.
Actually I just happen to talk like that normally, thanks for the ******* troll though. Also I'm not on these forums to make friends, I'm pretty sure the Swarm has enough of them, and the people who disagree with me aren't going to be swayed by eloquence anyway, they're already hypnotized by you BoB bull****, feebleminded gits that they are.
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Dulsung
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:33:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran What holiday you moron? Is it a holiday weekend in Iceland? Cause I'm pretty sure Memorial Day is only an American holiday.
The Holiday is called "Whit Monday". I'll refrain from calling you a moron though.
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Richard Johannson
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:35:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Popsikle
Originally by: Marcus TheDealer Edited by: Marcus TheDealer on 28/05/2007 03:19:50 Edited by: Marcus TheDealer on 28/05/2007 03:19:08 Edited by: Marcus TheDealer on 28/05/2007 03:18:34
Originally by: Counterparty
Originally by: Marcus TheDealer
Maybe surf the net and read up on SQL
So you learned all you need to know about admin while surfing the net. You have a bright future in the database field.
Enterprise data persistence and access controls don't exist on my PC or yours. Maybe when I buy that home SAN and implement card control systems for all high level access users in the family, I will try out your at home suggestions.
Thanks for the support but my future is already pretty bright :) From your previous comments about this being impossible and such I suggest you search the net as you obviously do not know how SQL works. I believe helping people grow in their knowledge by suggesting such things as doing some reasearch and the net is a very valuable tool. I could easily spoon-feed you the information but I think you should take from another resource. As I am sure neither of us knows how the SQL server(s) are setup for CCP, they are basic administrator tools that are hard-coded into the software and that includes resetting identities and deleting records. The reference to your PC was trying to show you how (if you are using a Microsoft O/S) an administrator can cover their tracks by accessing the system event records - and that it can be done while the operating system is still running.
Im sure Ark knows how the SQL servers are run..
And i am sure so do Sharkbait
so why you think he can not cover up a deleted petition?
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Dominique Parr
Taggart Transdimensional
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:37:00 -
[217]
I am impressed at how many of these alts assume CCP and its Developers and GMs have a complete lack of morals.
Cause, as I see it. If their morals were absent as many think they are apparently, would we even be having this discussion in this open thread about these events?
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Alice Cholmondeley
Christine.
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:38:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran
Actually I just happen to talk like that normally, thanks for the ******* troll though. Also I'm not on these forums to make friends, I'm pretty sure the Swarm has enough of them, and the people who disagree with me aren't going to be swayed by eloquence anyway, they're already hypnotized by you BoB bull****, feebleminded gits that they are.
Nice life you must have. it's pretty obvious that you are completely oblivious to what normal behaviour entails. The typical foulmouthed goon member. Just so you know, no one is listening to you. |
Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:38:00 -
[219]
Edited by: Empyre on 28/05/2007 06:38:24
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran You really are ******** Empyre. Theres a difference between critizing CCP and trolling them. The only trolling I have engaged in at all is directed at people who make **** up to support why CCP didn't act on this sooner. I believe CCP completely screwed up their handling of this situation, and I'm pretty sure, given the fallout of this series of events CCP would probably agree with me. The other****gots who can't choke that down are the ones who're getting argued with.
and i ask you again.. where's your proof? so far all i've seen is accusations, statements of 'fact' that are in direct controversy to what anyone else can read even in this very thread. no ccp doesn't agree with you, read their freakin statements.
you're the only one being choked by this delusional fantasy of yours. the fact you resort to childish insults only proves you have no proof or truth at all in your arsenal.
how does that snappy forums saying go? oh yeah!
PROOF OR STFU!
People argue when their personal views are at odds, whereas a debate is a more formal method of analyzing the angles of an issue
Removed empty image tag. -Rauth |
Jenai'na
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:39:00 -
[220]
you know what?
this game has become one huge mind****. i dont trust any of you any more. CCP, BOB, GOON you are all the same.
screw it. i ll find some other place to spend my money.
there is no professionalism what so ever from any party involved.
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Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:41:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Jenai'na you know what?
this game has become one huge mind****. i dont trust any of you any more. CCP, BOB, GOON you are all the same.
screw it. i ll find some other place to spend my money.
there is no professionalism what so ever from any party involved.
it's 'E M P Y R E' contract your stuff from anywhere.. i'll pick it up.
/wave.
People argue when their personal views are at odds, whereas a debate is a more formal method of analyzing the angles of an issue
Removed empty image tag. -Rauth |
Etien Aldragoran
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:46:00 -
[222]
*snip* Please keep a civil tone. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
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Svaha Norbu
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:49:00 -
[223]
Originally by: pator gurl Edited by: pator gurl on 28/05/2007 05:52:34
Also regarding Darkstar1 corp -
Have you stopped to consider that a player who submitted the petition is on some holiday (Hint it's a 3 day weekend in the US and several parts of Europe) and hasn't visited your corp/alliance forums?
Maybe some Bob guy filed a petition because he visited your corp's pos while he was in a cloaked ship and he still got killed (that happened to me twice)
Maybe someone from the Goon alliance (who isn't in the DS1) corp filed a petition. More than 2k people in the alliance, have you asked everyone?
Also, after all this noise has been created do you think the person will own up to submitting the petition? He'll be crucified if he admits this.
And if CCP tells you who filed the petition then they are breaking their own laws.
At the time of the petition DS1 had no more than 3 small unfitted logistics PoSes. All three were managed by a single person. This person never filed any petitions or noticed any problems with the PoSes.
So if there was no problem with the PoSes, what exactly was fixed? If CCP can tell us in Arkanon's original statement that the petition involved a bugged POS, surely they can tell us what they actually fixed without violating their privacy policy?
Or is this yet another inconsistancy for us to puzzle over?
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Namingway
Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:50:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Trishan Btw my landlord gets in my house to make some plumbing improvements while I'm out, Id'll sue the hell out of him as it would be illegal.
Depends where you live. In the US, I believe there is Federal law stating a Landlord may enter rental property if there is reason to believe a person or the property is at danger, without consent of the renter(s).
So if the Landlord drove by one day, and saw water leaking out of the side of the house, you can't do a thing about them grabbing a plumber and going back without you giving them the 'ok' first.
Now if you believe the landlord lied about the probable cause, you can take them to court, but you'd better be damn sure you can disprove their reason for entering.
Ofcourse, if you live in another country, your laws may be entirely different.
Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
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Dominique Parr
Taggart Transdimensional
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:52:00 -
[225]
Edited by: Dominique Parr on 28/05/2007 06:52:10
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran
original post got snipped, so I snipped this one for them.
It was not official policy to contact the CEO of the corp when a dev was going to enter a corp to investigate a petition. However after this event, it has not become official policy to contact, from what it sounds like, the Entire corporation (in the event the CEO is not there). They didn't make any mistakes. The did update their policy in how future matters will be handled.
However, I still maintain that Sharkbait did not HAVE to contact the CEO, because a member within the corporation submited a petition regarding an error/bug/flaw/brokensomething with the POS and Sharkbait was there to check and correct it. Did you not read that part of Arkanon's post?
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Etien Aldragoran
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:55:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Dominique Parr Edited by: Dominique Parr on 28/05/2007 06:52:10
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran
original post got snipped, so I snipped this one for them.
It was not official policy to contact the CEO of the corp when a dev was going to enter a corp to investigate a petition. However after this event, it has not become official policy to contact, from what it sounds like, the Entire corporation (in the event the CEO is not there). They didn't make any mistakes. The did update their policy in how future matters will be handled.
However, I still maintain that Sharkbait did not HAVE to contact the CEO, because a member within the corporation submited a petition regarding an error/bug/flaw/brokensomething with the POS and Sharkbait was there to check and correct it. Did you not read that part of Arkanon's post?
I maintain that anything less than being explicit about their intentions was a **** up. Especially given the past transgressions developers have made. I reiterate that CCP seems to agree, because they CHANGED their policy. ------------------------------------------------------ I am not a nice person, never have, never will be, its my burden to deal with the consequences of my actions. |
Namingway
Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:56:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Princess Morenta
Originally by: CCP kieron
Originally by: Fofalus Also the response to the deleted petition a separate issue or is just being buried with this one?
It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.
Database admin could deleted the petition from database or flatfile if thats where its stored.
If its vis email - delete the email then the petition from database.
Simple ? Or can you explain why this is impossible to occur.
There's still logs of it and it's recoverable, and the 'cleanup commands' would be logged. Unless you blow up the DB, literally, the information is gone.
Multi-million dollar companies do not make information databases that allow complete information erasing. Even if every 'trace' of the petition is deleted. There is logs of the deletion process. Deleting those logs make new logs, and so on and so forth. Unless you physically destroy the server in a major way, the information still exists.
Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
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Kaplanelle
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:57:00 -
[228]
I think we can all take a nice breather here and wait for more information to unfold. The bickering and speculation is getting beyond counterproductive.
Yeah yeah, we'll all got axes to grind and every alliance hates each others guts and thinks there the lowest of the lowtheycheatandsuckandarestupidyadayada.
At least now CCP staff have said they will announce their presence when the do this in the future. One small victory for common courtesy.
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Namingway
Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:58:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Deus Ex'Machina Let me get this straight, Kieron.
Let's say i'm friends with BoB,
Let's say Sharkbait is friends with BoB,
Let's say D1 is not friends with BoB and thus i'm not friends with D1 nor is Sharkbait but he's a gm so he's officially impartial. Let's also assume that D1 does not know i'm friends with BoB since i'm in a newbie corp.
Let's say Arkanor is impartial.
So i go one day to D1 to join them, cause my friends BoB told me to. Since i'm clean and old enough D1 take me in. Now i can file a petition for gm's to inspect D1's POS because my friends BoB think there's a titan being built there / loads of valuable stuff there like BPO's / any other reason. Sharkbait needed a reason, something to show to his buddy Arkanor in case something would go wrong, and he can now inspect D1's pos without worries, relaying the info to his friends in BoB.
Let's assume Arkanor can't say to D1 that i filed the petition due to EULA/smoke, but assures D1 that a D1 member filed it.
BoB gather valuable intel via meta gaming, the corrupt gm can't be caught.
----------------------------
This is currently a very plausible scenario, DO something to shed light on the thing, do not bury it under the carpet next to the T20 dead horse.
Everything you just said is moot, because sharkbait could've just run a query from the get-go and Goonswarm would've never known, and if he does it for all POSes, Ark could be told it's for whatever.
God does not need to build a bulldozer to move a mountain.
Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
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Rauth Kivaro
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.05.28 07:00:00 -
[230]
Folks, please, even if you don't agree- I ask you to keep the discussion civil and refrain from personal attacks and excessive profanity. Please respect the rules of the forum.
Thanks and regards,
Rauth Kivaro
forum rules | [email protected] | Our Website
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Namingway
Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters
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Posted - 2007.05.28 07:01:00 -
[231]
Originally by: BlacksouI Realing who in GS make the petition is a privacy violation is BULL. This is a stupid excuse to hide the fact. If i make a petition for myself and CCP reveal it to the public that is a privacy violation. When i make a petition ON BEHAVE OF MY CORP, it is not my petition it belongs to my corp. The corp's directors have the right to that petition if they want it to be revealed, there is not such thing as privacy violation.
Your corp directors don't have the authority to have your name revealed regardless of your petition being 'for the corp.
They can be told it's from a member of the corp, and they can ask the corp about it, maybe, but as for CCP having to give them the petitioner's name.
No, I'm calling bull**** on your post. We players do not have that authority over members of our corporations. Well I technically do since I'm the only member of my corp.
Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
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Namingway
Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters
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Posted - 2007.05.28 07:06:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran Edited by: Etien Aldragoran on 28/05/2007 06:16:52
Originally by: Namingway Considering you people waited until the holiday weekend to maximize the damage since you, and your boss kugu know full well people would leave for the holiday, I think CCP is being rather kind. Yes, I'm saying the release of this information was planned by entities hostile towards CCP to cause as much damage as possible. How's that list of 'demands' coming along?
What holiday*snip* Be nice. -Rauth? Is it a holiday weekend in Iceland? Cause I'm pretty sure Memorial Day is only an American holiday.
*snip* Flaming and trolling. -Rauth
You realize CCP isn't just in Iceland right?
Also, since when are national holidays only used as an excuse to relax by that country? I've gotten out of school for the Chinese new Year, and some Canadian holiday that i forget the name of.
And again, not all of CCP is in Iceland, remember the whole 'hey we merged with Whitewolf' thing?
Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
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Namingway
Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters
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Posted - 2007.05.28 07:07:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Dominique Parr Edited by: Dominique Parr on 28/05/2007 06:32:43
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran Edited by: Etien Aldragoran on 28/05/2007 06:16:52
Originally by: Namingway Considering you people waited until the holiday weekend to maximize the damage since you, and your boss kugu know full well people would leave for the holiday, I think CCP is being rather kind. Yes, I'm saying the release of this information was planned by entities hostile towards CCP to cause as much damage as possible. How's that list of 'demands' coming along?
What holiday you moron? Is it a holiday weekend in Iceland? Cause I'm pretty sure Memorial Day is only an American holiday. Furthermore Kugutsmen isn't and never has been an actual part of the Swarm, let alone leadership. The fact that you make baseless and stupid assumptions degrades any points you might have to the point of being useless.
Iceland's Holiday that falls on this coming Monday Happy Whit Monday to Everyone
/me didn't realize there was a specific Icelandic holiday monday, he figured CCP just wanted to party with its American employees. :P
Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
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Namingway
Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters
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Posted - 2007.05.28 07:09:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Dulsung
Originally by: Namingway
Originally by: ZeroForce also Kieron WAS a BoB member (possibly still) and DID either lie or be blatently blind about the whole T20 incident i personally think we should have a DIFFERENT communtiy manager for CCP
keiron was a BoB member?
And which char was he? Don't tell me you actually think kieron is that evol guy who's name can be rearranged to spell 'kieron'. That's asking people to swallow a rather large amount of idiot juice.
Maybe he owned the account back then but sold it or whatever back when that was still allowed. I know if I had gotten an account and found out TomB or some other dev once owned it, I'd probably have a char named "Tom the hugmaster" or something goofy like that to refer to him. The re-arranging of letters in 'TomB' wouldn't give very good names.
You guys haven't actually read this thread very well, have you? :) ZeroForce needs to learn not to talk when he's completely wrong about everything.
Actually, I was thinking of kieron's original post that he quotes when I replied to the troll. Wasn't much point to blank my post by the time I worked my way back to it.
Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
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Dominique Parr
Taggart Transdimensional
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Posted - 2007.05.28 07:11:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Namingway
/me didn't realize there was a specific Icelandic holiday monday, he figured CCP just wanted to party with its American employees. :P
Nah, he asked, I answered. I don't know if they get the day off or what. Sounds like the French do, so why not Iceland?
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Richard Johannson
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Posted - 2007.05.28 07:17:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Kalestra Cable
Originally by: CCP kieron)
It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless. [/quote
I'm not saying anyone did delete a petition and can't imagine why anyone would bother to be honest but what tools do you think a developer would require to delete a petition??
You guys run a MSSQL backend and it's not exactly hard to write a query to remove anything you like from the database.
With any level of access to the underlying database given Microsoft's own internal sloppy stored procedures and bad coding practices it's not hard to gain full access to do whatever you want in the any SQL DB.
That means the Developers can write a game with 1 billion code pages, but not delete a petition because they have no tools for it?
So you guys think we are 8 years old and santa claus exist?
You are going down faster and faster...
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Namingway
Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters
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Posted - 2007.05.28 07:19:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Dominique Parr
Originally by: Namingway
/me didn't realize there was a specific Icelandic holiday monday, he figured CCP just wanted to party with its American employees. :P
Nah, he asked, I answered. I don't know if they get the day off or what. Sounds like the French do, so why not Iceland?
Any holiday is a good day.
Ok, I've got to stop posting, CCP is giving us information. It's coming slowly, but I'd rather get information here and there due to a detailed investigation, than get a clump of info and a 'case closed' that says nothing.
Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
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Dee Aych'el
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Posted - 2007.05.28 07:28:00 -
[238]
Edited by: Dee Aych''el on 28/05/2007 07:26:59
Originally by: CCP kieron It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.
Look... you've obviously put a lot of time and effort into researching this. Believe me, we applaud the effort now and in the future. We should all be thankful because it's great that CCP took the time on a long weekend to address these issues.
Can't we all just give Sharkbait the benefit of the doubt here? His actions are under the tightest of scrutiny and he knows this. There's absolutely nothing that would indicate his actions involving Darkstar 1 weren't totally above board. |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.05.28 07:30:00 -
[239]
Originally by: CCP kieron
Originally by: Slickoo Why would it take that long to address a petition and why was this time chosen?
The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition.
I am sorry to say, but this comming from the highest ranking community manager at ccp is uhm, quite alarming. If I wouldn't have stopped paying by now I would absoulutely do so NOW!
I could understand that things at ccp are in uproar, but NO PROFESSIONAL, ever, in such a position must let his feelings overcome his mind and throw around such hiddden accusations to their customers (and employers). It seems some guys has forgotten whom it is who the paycheck pays.
Kieron, did you say that DS1 all made it up and nothing of what they say is true? Then you must go and ban them all, that is the only appropriate measurement then, everything else would be highly illogical. But if you don't have such proof, DON'T throw around mud!
And obviously you do not know your own game or maybe you know it only from buddies who have a direct line to ccp headquaters and no waiting time when problems come up? Do you actually know how long it takes that a petition comes back? 1-2 weeks is absolutely NORMAL and nothing unusual!
Also every normal thinking person must admit that the open letter was well written and took some time, also the course of action was surely discussed inside the goons which took also a day or two.
Or would you like to have people which explore every time when a petition doesn't come back after one day? I would expect the community manager to know all this. So I think your hidden accusation is very strange.
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Svaha Norbu
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.28 07:34:00 -
[240]
Whatever. We didn't release the statement with ruining anyone's holiday in mind. I'm sorry if the timing is inconvenient for you, but such is the nature of scandal.
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