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Update on investigation into allegations of misconduct

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Dominique Parr Taggart Transdimensional	Posted - 2007.05.28 07:41:00 - [241] Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: CCP kieron Originally by: Slickoo Why would it take that long to address a petition and why was this time chosen? The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition. I am sorry to say, but this comming from the highest ranking community manager at ccp is uhm, quite alarming. If I wouldn't have stopped paying by now I would absoulutely do so NOW! I could understand that things at ccp are in uproar, but NO PROFESSIONAL, ever, in such a position must let his feelings overcome his mind and throw around such hiddden accusations to their customers (and employers). It seems some guys has forgotten whom it is who the paycheck pays. Kieron, did you say that DS1 all made it up and nothing of what they say is true? Then you must go and ban them all, that is the only appropriate measurement then, everything else would be highly illogical. But if you don't have such proof, DON'T throw around mud! And obviously you do not know your own game or maybe you know it only from buddies who have a direct line to ccp headquaters and no waiting time when problems come up? Do you actually know how long it takes that a petition comes back? 1-2 weeks is absolutely NORMAL and nothing unusual! Also every normal thinking person must admit that the open letter was well written and took some time, also the course of action was surely discussed inside the goons which took also a day or two. Or would you like to have people which explore every time when a petition doesn't come back after one day? I would expect the community manager to know all this. So I think your hidden accusation is very strange. While you may read his statement one way, I read it a different way. I too would like to know why DS1 choose to sit on this for approximately 2 weeks? How I get to 2 weeks: May 6th: Petition Submitted May 9th: Petition Investigated May 11th~13th: Petition Closed May 26th: Allegations brought forth
MC Smith	Posted - 2007.05.28 07:47:00 - [242] Edited by: MC Smith on 28/05/2007 07:46:20 Originally by: CCP kieron It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless. All issues with the Sharkbait incident aside, are we seriously supposed to believe that you can not delete data from a computer?! How stupid do you think we are?
Invidious Malinigvious Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 07:52:00 - [243] Originally by: DeathGrip Anyone else feel all this is all about Goons losing space and now since there train has failed they need a reason. about sums it up
Miasia Konstrukteure der Zukunft Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:01:00 - [244] Originally by: CCP kieron While this issue may seem to be 'the most trivial' as one player stated, it was the first issue brought forward by the accusing player alliance and seemingly the root of their discontent. We are still continuing with our efforts. Please keep in mind this is an extended weekend and not all the staff are in the office to assist where needed. Hi kierron, for a database admin that is for sure possible. DELETE FROM petitiontable where id="xxx";
Dacovale	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:06:00 - [245] Edited by: Dacovale on 28/05/2007 08:05:24 Originally by: MC Smith Edited by: MC Smith on 28/05/2007 07:46:20 Originally by: CCP kieron It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless. All issues with the Sharkbait incident aside, are we seriously supposed to believe that you can not delete data from a computer?! How stupid do you think we are? edit - lost me post from ere ;) You can always delete data. Try erasing all record of it ever existing and then erasing all record of what you've done so it's untraceable. Not impossible to do under most operating systems but it is difficult. Then try doing that on any production database in the world. Not only do you transaction log for every transaction that occurs you also have backups. Someone trying to erase this would have to then delete everything to do with that petition and the relevent transaction logs which would leave evidence that a user deleted records.... I don't know what system CCP use so I won#t presume to say precisely how they'd recover data but I'd be amazed if it's not covered by a multihomed high redundancy storage that takes it's own data snapshots every 10-15 minutes in case something goes fubar. Unfortunately i suspect you don't care about what I've written because none of you will be happy until CCP go down on bended knees and beg your forgiveness. It's unrealistic and it won't happen. MMO's that have/had active support staff. Just about every one I ever played. To date thats: Dark Age of Camelot, Neocron, Eve-Online, Star Wars: Galaxies, World of Warcraft. I've played alongside some of them and most were very good, some (unfortunately) were out for what they could get out of the status and system. They quickly got weeded out and quietly shuffled off. Of all of those games - see which one I'm still playing. Wonder why? They do the best job. The support is generally good (with the odd gm disagreement) the costs aren't too harsh and the gameplay is enjoyable. As regards rigging of scripted events. If you've ever been a proper pen and paper rpg geek and tried to write and run a stand alone adventure for a group of players you will know that every 'game' event is rigged in some way. That's because 1100000 people all going somewhere and nothing happening is dull dull dull. They're rigged so that certain things happen that advance the storyline and give us a greater feeling of submersion into the game universe. YES some details of how the events occur will be up to the players but generally certain things have to happen, if you can't see or accept that then I'm sorry but you're playing the wrong genre of game. This is, at the end of the day, a roleplaying game. Whether you choose to be full on rpg or rpglite and just use it as a means for pvp is up to you, but you do need to accept that certains aspects of roleplay will dictate gameplay. it's not rigging, it's a mechanic of genre. Now - Carry on CCP. If my opinion counts for anything - I think you're doing a ***ing job. I'm loving the new patch and the pew pew pew in 0.0 is the win, even if I am a bit of a nub :) Daco
Dominique Parr Taggart Transdimensional	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:07:00 - [246] Originally by: Miasia Originally by: CCP kieron While this issue may seem to be 'the most trivial' as one player stated, it was the first issue brought forward by the accusing player alliance and seemingly the root of their discontent. We are still continuing with our efforts. Please keep in mind this is an extended weekend and not all the staff are in the office to assist where needed. Hi kierron, for a database admin that is for sure possible. DELETE FROM petitiontable where id="xxx"; What does one do with the log that shows the deletion command has been used?
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:08:00 - [247] Originally by: Svaha Norbu Whatever. We didn't release the statement with ruining anyone's holiday in mind. I'm sorry if the timing is inconvenient for you, but such is the nature of scandal. No, that's probably true. You didn't do it to ruin peoples holiday..... You did it to ruin EVE as a game! You released it to coincide precisely (to the hour basically) with a holiday weekend so you could be sure that the senior people who would normally handle things like this wouldn't be at work. Before that, you had given CCP a generous 4 hours (and 2 minutes) to respond to a petition you claim to have sent (and from Kierons remarks it seems highly likely you were lying about that too). Then you started your orchestrated attacks on the game and the company by starting defamation on numerous other websites. I suppose we shouldn't be too surprised. This is the normal way the SA community 'plays' games. They don't play them to win, they don't play them to have fun, they 'play' them to destroy them as objects of enjoyment for other people. No, you set this up the way you did to hurt the game! Not to get issues resolved! The really sad thing we see is that there are some previously respected members of the EVE community who've let their corp join in with you and are also accepting this way of 'playing'. For all who doubt me, get a membership to the SA forum, read them (cesspool warning though), and you'll know this is exactly the way it is. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
TOGAKURE Daisuke Occam's Razor Combine R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:16:00 - [248] Originally by: MC Smith Edited by: MC Smith on 28/05/2007 07:46:20 Originally by: CCP kieron It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless. All issues with the Sharkbait incident aside, are we seriously supposed to believe that you can not delete data from a computer?! How stupid do you think we are? The eve db runs on a big cluster there in london, I think they're using some shady ibm multinode thingy that makes the db think it's once machine but it's actually a bigger cluster. Anyway, majority of ccp employees only have tools which they can interact with. Those tools then interact with the database without telling the users the credentials the tool is using. All basic security. Most likely different tools in ccp employees possessions use different sql userid's and passwords to manipulate the db, so that the 'petition interface tool' cannot affect, in any way, even in the case of programming error, the tables which for example, store the location of stargates (although that might have hilarious effect ;)). Most likely only the senior database admins have remote console access to db servers and/or have sql userid/passwords to do anything they wish on sql console. But maybe CCP has gone nuts on security and they can't do even that. Only in maintenance break the CTO takes a keyring from the safe which can then be used to generate the one-time pass which give unrestricted access. Now, bigger enterprise databases are 'transactional' databases. The transaction log keeps record of each and every sql command made in the system. For example, if you loose your actual database now and you have a full backup from last friday, you just need to 'play back' the transaction log and you can get to any point of time. Transaction log is usually on a very high speed filesystem (it fills up pretty fast) and it would show any delete's made in the tables. You also take good care of your transaction log (it's binary, not human readable) since that's most likely your incremental backup since your last full. Anyway, enough of db babble. Not really in the topic. But if CCP says that normal employees (except database admins and even they would have to sweat a little to cover their tracks) have no way to alter the petition pool so that a petition is really deleted, I believe them. Any half-wit db admin would design the tools in that way.
Broska Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:18:00 - [249] I for one am extreemly please with the way this was handled. Good job IA and CCP in general. I hope the other incident is handled and reported up in a similar way. Just ignore the "I'm going to cancel my account" people for the sake of your sanity. ------------------------------ Originally by: Tovarishch flying a Scorp into a fleet battle is like parking a pink moped in front of a biker bar - you will die... quickly.
Toffles GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:28:00 - [250] Edited by: Toffles on 28/05/2007 08:30:33 Just to be crystal clear on something a lot of people seem to be missing: *GOONSWARM DID NOT ORCHESTRATE THESE ALLEGATIONS* Everything except the DS1 allegation was first published by the person who we don't speak of, on the site we don't speak of. The DS1 guys didn't bring anything up until after the other allegations came to light. I assume the DS1 guys planned on dealing with the situation privately until they read about the stuff from that certain off site blog. WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE IN ANY WAY FOR THE TIMING OF THIS
Raketenkaese	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:28:00 - [251] Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious Originally by: DeathGrip Anyone else feel all this is all about Goons losing space and now since there train has failed they need a reason. about sums it up Backpatting in public ftw.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:36:00 - [252] Edited by: Kerfira on 28/05/2007 08:42:05 Edited by: Kerfira on 28/05/2007 08:37:36 Originally by: Toffles Just to be crystal clear on something a lot of people seem to be missing: *GOONSWARM DID NOT ORCHESTRATE THESE ALLEGATIONS* Everything except the DS1 allegation was first published by the person who we don't speak of, on the site we don't speak of. The DS1 guys didn't bring anything up until after the other allegations came to light. I assume the DS1 guys planned on dealing with the situation privately until they read about the stuff from that certain off site blog. You not orchestrating things is why you lie about having sent petitions (I trust Kieron more than an alliance of players who make their 'fun' from killing games other people enjoy)? You not orchestrating things is why you carefully chose a time of JUST around end-of-business before a holiday weekend (when you knew most/all senior people wouldn't be at work) to start your assault on the game? You not orchestrating things is why you immediately after (withing minutes...) started spamming both E-O and mulitiple external websites with your (now proven) groundless accusations? Yes, we believe you Please, (I sorta know you won't listen), maybe you should look into yourself and ask whether wanting to destroy a game other people likes is really something to be proud of and enjoy...... YOUR ACTIONS SPEAK MORE LOUDLY OF WHAT AND WHY YOU DID THIS THAN YOUR WORDS!!! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Takahashi Arran coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:36:00 - [253] its amazing how all these people think they know more about how ccp operates and the internal programming of the game than the devs themselves. In my eyes the only remaining question to awnser on this issue is was there ever a DS1 petition after this occurred and what is the status of that petition?
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:42:00 - [254] Originally by: Toffles Edited by: Toffles on 28/05/2007 08:30:33 Just to be crystal clear on something a lot of people seem to be missing: *GOONSWARM DID NOT ORCHESTRATE THESE ALLEGATIONS* Everything except the DS1 allegation was first published by the person who we don't speak of, on the site we don't speak of. The DS1 guys didn't bring anything up until after the other allegations came to light. I assume the DS1 guys planned on dealing with the situation privately until they read about the stuff from that certain off site blog. WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE IN ANY WAY FOR THE TIMING OF THIS Too little too late.
Randorial	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:44:00 - [255] Originally by: MC Smith Edited by: MC Smith on 28/05/2007 07:46:20 Originally by: CCP kieron It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless. All issues with the Sharkbait incident aside, are we seriously supposed to believe that you can not delete data from a computer?! How stupid do you think we are? they can only close it but not delete it from your side, and also you should write down the number of a petititon when you file it.
Biatchen	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:47:00 - [256] Originally by: Kaplanelle Originally by: CCP kieron The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition. Whoa, back up there pal. That's not the tone you take with paying customers, ever. People can have honest misunderstandings, and CCP shouldn't be alledging anything different unless they have absolute proof otherwise. This was a customer service failure on CCPs part by not having enough customer contact. Why you're takings such a customer hostile stance makes me wonder what your employer is thinking allowing the community manager take up that kind of attitude. I Actually have to agree with this customers statement! Looks like another sweep under the rug /Punish the customer who's not in the right group of preferred customers operation for CCP Seriously Don't you care anymore about your Reputation's? GOT MSN?
Dan Kaldar Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:50:00 - [257] Originally by: Toffles Edited by: Toffles on 28/05/2007 08:30:33 Just to be crystal clear on something a lot of people seem to be missing: *GOONSWARM DID NOT ORCHESTRATE THESE ALLEGATIONS* Everything except the DS1 allegation was first published by the person who we don't speak of, on the site we don't speak of. The DS1 guys didn't bring anything up until after the other allegations came to light. I assume the DS1 guys planned on dealing with the situation privately until they read about the stuff from that certain off site blog. WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE IN ANY WAY FOR THE TIMING OF THIS yeah you are, you guys spammed te forums, you guys spammed jita, you guys are only trying to disrupt CCP's daily state of affairs over trivial issues which 99 % of your member know nothing about. As has t just been proven by the fact that someone in DS1 filed a petition. I hope CCP deals with the people trying to destabalise the game on purpose after this whole investigation is finished. Since this was nothing short of a lynchmob with only 1 goal. Destroying the credability of CCP and BOB in 1 go. Stop clutching for straws, it's getting very tiresome now.
Biatchen	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:50:00 - [258] #2 Should say "Ask Permission" to join the corp for bug testing. This sounds like #3 smokescreen though. GOT MSN?
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:50:00 - [259] Edited by: Xtro 2 on 28/05/2007 08:50:50 a dev joining the corp to fix a problem is no big deal, even if their not informed the dev knowingly leaves a trail to show his involvement, i somehow doubt whoever made the petition would ever dare to raise his hand up after all this drama and say "actually guys u know what, hehe it was meeeeeee", its just not gonna happen. The biggest and tbh the only issue should be the ISD banning incident, if thats all 100% fact then that should be the main focus of all the tinfoil hat drama queens, because thats the single most irresponsible thing. Even the event rigging speculation is no great drama to me, the very nature of the events has always seemed stacked in favour of certain corps/alliances for a hell of a long time not just recent ones and comes as no great shock to me, its why i never bothered. at the very least IA is doin something and things are changing, tho some like events probably wont change at all really. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Biatchen	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:52:00 - [260] Originally by: Dan Kaldar Originally by: Toffles Edited by: Toffles on 28/05/2007 08:30:33 Just to be crystal clear on something a lot of people seem to be missing: *GOONSWARM DID NOT ORCHESTRATE THESE ALLEGATIONS* Everything except the DS1 allegation was first published by the person who we don't speak of, on the site we don't speak of. The DS1 guys didn't bring anything up until after the other allegations came to light. I assume the DS1 guys planned on dealing with the situation privately until they read about the stuff from that certain off site blog. WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE IN ANY WAY FOR THE TIMING OF THIS yeah you are, you guys spammed te forums, you guys spammed jita, you guys are only trying to disrupt CCP's daily state of affairs over trivial issues which 99 % of your member know nothing about. As has t just been proven by the fact that someone in DS1 filed a petition. I hope CCP deals with the people trying to destabalise the game on purpose after this whole investigation is finished. Since this was nothing short of a lynchmob with only 1 goal. Destroying the credability of CCP and BOB in 1 go. Stop clutching for straws, it's getting very tiresome now. Look at the self righteous BOB Alt here preaching Ethics.. Maybe you should MSN your Dev "Friends" and complain? GOT MSN?
Toffles GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:52:00 - [261] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Toffles Just to be crystal clear on something a lot of people seem to be missing: *GOONSWARM DID NOT ORCHESTRATE THESE ALLEGATIONS* Everything except the DS1 allegation was first published by the person who we don't speak of, on the site we don't speak of. The DS1 guys didn't bring anything up until after the other allegations came to light. I assume the DS1 guys planned on dealing with the situation privately until they read about the stuff from that certain off site blog. You not orchestrating things is why you lie about having sent petitions? You not orchestrating things is why you chose a time of JUST around end-of-business before a holiday weekend to start your assault on the game? You not orchestrating things is why you immediately after started spamming mulitiple external websites with your (now proven) groundless accusations? Yes, we believe you Please, (I sorta know you won't listen), maybe you should look into yourself and ask whether wanting to destroy a game other people likes is really something to be proud of and enjoy...... Try actually reading my post then explain how we had any choice on the timing of this. I really want you to address this and not dodge it, because you look like an idiot right now. Why would we want to destroy this game? Because bob took a few stations from us? We're far from being beaten and giving up. And even if we did lose all our space it's not like we'd just plain give up and try to destroy the game. We've been through much worse if you'll recall the period of time when the entire game decided to war dec us and camp us into npc stations. Why didn't we destroy the game back then when we were in just about the worst position you can get? You and Kieron would love to turn this around on us, to distract the public from the fact that CCP has given special advantages to BoB for years, but it just won't fly. As for these allegations being proven groundless, that's is far from happening and you know it. At the very least BoB has admitted to having special communication channels to the developers of the game through msn. It's a massive conflict of interest, it's newsworthy, and for some it's worth quitting the game over.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:52:00 - [262] Originally by: Biatchen Originally by: Kaplanelle Originally by: CCP kieron The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition. Whoa, back up there pal. That's not the tone you take with paying customers, ever. People can have honest misunderstandings, and CCP shouldn't be alledging anything different unless they have absolute proof otherwise. This was a customer service failure on CCPs part by not having enough customer contact. Why you're takings such a customer hostile stance makes me wonder what your employer is thinking allowing the community manager take up that kind of attitude. I Actually have to agree with this customers statement! Looks like another sweep under the rug /Punish the customer who's not in the right group of preferred customers operation for CCP Seriously Don't you care anymore about your Reputation's? Customers are not holy, especially not when they are being abusive. If a customer would come and accuse me of whatever i would kick them out of my store.
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:54:00 - [263] Originally by: Frug Edited by: Frug on 27/05/2007 23:28:43 Originally by: ZeroForce .... garbage.... And there you have the perfect, flawless example of everything wrong with this whole issue. Apparently this zero fellow hasn't even read the OP but feels the need to go on a religious tirade. Nothing CCP could ever do will satisfy this kind of foaming madness. No. He raised valid points. If you cant see this youre an idiot. -------------------- '\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/' Cant we all just get along?
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:54:00 - [264] Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious Originally by: DeathGrip Anyone else feel all this is all about Goons losing space and now since there train has failed they need a reason. about sums it up Remedial picked a good time to take his SC kickbacks and run. --- Eve Comedy Gallery.
Tholarim Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:54:00 - [265] Edited by: Tholarim on 28/05/2007 08:54:12 Originally by: Biatchen Originally by: Dan Kaldar Originally by: Toffles Edited by: Toffles on 28/05/2007 08:30:33 Just to be crystal clear on something a lot of people seem to be missing: *GOONSWARM DID NOT ORCHESTRATE THESE ALLEGATIONS* Everything except the DS1 allegation was first published by the person who we don't speak of, on the site we don't speak of. The DS1 guys didn't bring anything up until after the other allegations came to light. I assume the DS1 guys planned on dealing with the situation privately until they read about the stuff from that certain off site blog. WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE IN ANY WAY FOR THE TIMING OF THIS yeah you are, you guys spammed te forums, you guys spammed jita, you guys are only trying to disrupt CCP's daily state of affairs over trivial issues which 99 % of your member know nothing about. As has t just been proven by the fact that someone in DS1 filed a petition. I hope CCP deals with the people trying to destabalise the game on purpose after this whole investigation is finished. Since this was nothing short of a lynchmob with only 1 goal. Destroying the credability of CCP and BOB in 1 go. Stop clutching for straws, it's getting very tiresome now. Look at the self righteous BOB Alt here preaching Ethics.. Maybe you should MSN your Dev "Friends" and complain? Funny how an alt whines about an alt.... It's a proper lynch mob, since every1 who disagrees is aobviously bob and thus guilty right? You people make me laugh, we in bob normally just flame with our mains
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:55:00 - [266] Originally by: Toffles Why didn't we destroy the game back then when we were in just about the worst position you can get? You and Kieron would love to turn this around on us, to distract the public from the fact that CCP has given special advantages to BoB for years, but it just won't fly. As for these allegations being proven groundless, that's is far from happening and you know it. At the very least BoB has admitted to having special communication channels to the developers of the game through msn. It's a massive conflict of interest, it's newsworthy, and for some it's worth quitting the game over. The only spin i see is coming from GoonSwarm running in damagecontrol mode. You failed, you spammed and now you have to face the consequences.
MalaMo TMF	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:57:00 - [267] Originally by: TOGAKURE Daisuke Anyway, majority of ccp employees only have tools which they can interact with. Those tools then interact with the database without telling the users the credentials the tool is using. All basic security. Most likely different tools in ccp employees possessions use different sql userid's and passwords to manipulate the db, so that the 'petition interface tool' cannot affect, in any way, even in the case of programming error, the tables which for example, store the location of stargates (although that might have hilarious effect ;)). Most likely only the senior database admins have remote console access to db servers and/or have sql userid/passwords to do anything they wish on sql console. But maybe CCP has gone nuts on security and they can't do even that. Only in maintenance break the CTO takes a keyring from the safe which can then be used to generate the one-time pass which give unrestricted access. Now, bigger enterprise databases are 'transactional' databases. The transaction log keeps record of each and every sql command made in the system. For example, if you loose your actual database now and you have a full backup from last friday, you just need to 'play back' the transaction log and you can get to any point of time. Transaction log is usually on a very high speed filesystem (it fills up pretty fast) and it would show any delete's made in the tables. You also take good care of your transaction log (it's binary, not human readable) since that's most likely your incremental backup since your last full. Anyway, enough of db babble. Not really in the topic. But if CCP says that normal employees (except database admins and even they would have to sweat a little to cover their tracks) have no way to alter the petition pool so that a petition is really deleted, I believe them. Any half-wit db admin would design the tools in that way. Problem isnt a system/database, problem is in ppl. If GM cheats or abusing his powers its not problem you can always found out from logs what happed. But in EVE you have devs, creators of this game, administrators of this game who are willing to jeprodise their work to gain advantage for him self and his friends. This ppl can manipulate with data in everyway they want you will never found out anything as administrator of system its is very very easy when you know what you are doing to destroy logs . How can arkonor get any real information when he has to ask same DB admin (for example) about logs who did manipulate with DB, just lol. You have ppl stating that they MSN chat with their DEV friends ??? WTF ??? Dont you think thats it is wrong to do that ??? You see what you did CCP you made conflict of interest allowing your DEVs to play this game and have big influence in game. And they/you show me/and some of us :) that you are not willing to follow working ethic. You are not willing to punish that kind of behevior. Just look T20 incident. Really sad, and we have to trust you You didn't listen ------------- Don't drink and drive, logon to EVE and fly.
Toffles GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:01:00 - [268] Originally by: Dan Kaldar Originally by: Toffles Edited by: Toffles on 28/05/2007 08:30:33 Just to be crystal clear on something a lot of people seem to be missing: *GOONSWARM DID NOT ORCHESTRATE THESE ALLEGATIONS* Everything except the DS1 allegation was first published by the person who we don't speak of, on the site we don't speak of. The DS1 guys didn't bring anything up until after the other allegations came to light. I assume the DS1 guys planned on dealing with the situation privately until they read about the stuff from that certain off site blog. WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE IN ANY WAY FOR THE TIMING OF THIS yeah you are, you guys spammed te forums, you guys spammed jita, you guys are only trying to disrupt CCP's daily state of affairs over trivial issues which 99 % of your member know nothing about. As has t just been proven by the fact that someone in DS1 filed a petition. It's been posted about a billion times, but the only reason this came down to forum spam was due to CCP's actions in trying to cover-up this incident. Calling these trivial issues? You're just trolling. The 150 page over this is all the evidence you need that no one on either side considers this trivial.
Trilli Shaw	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:01:00 - [269] Originally by: CCP kieron It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. [...] Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless. Invalid reasoning. First: if you would have said 'petitions deleted by devs/gms are groundless therefore' then it would be a valid reasoning. But not as you stated it. Who can delete petitions then? No one? Some database admins? Don't make a fool out of me (and yourself this way) trying to believe that reasoning. Second: You said a while ago that it is not possible to spawn t2-bpo's and therefore any accusations against a dev having illegal t2-blueprints brought into the game were constructed and completely groundless. Well, we all know how your reasoning worked that time. Technically you were right, no blueprints were spawned, they were just 'borrowed' from the lottery... So, you say that if something is not possible a certain way then it is impossible at all? Then you are a funny man, making such jokes. I hope in the next posts you leave away the jokes and come straight to the point: is it possible to delete petitions under certain cirumstances? Yes or no? Simple question, simple answer. I still believe that Arkanon is trying to find out what happened really. P.S. I am disappointed by the answers. It is as predicted in the long post: 'We have found no wrongdoings and we cannot reveal anything because our EULA wouldn't allow it.' Only rabbling talk without any content. No word about the close ties between devs and bob (admitted by them!) for example.
Cabal Leader	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:03:00 - [270] Originally by: Toffles Originally by: Dan Kaldar Originally by: Toffles Edited by: Toffles on 28/05/2007 08:30:33 Just to be crystal clear on something a lot of people seem to be missing: *GOONSWARM DID NOT ORCHESTRATE THESE ALLEGATIONS* Everything except the DS1 allegation was first published by the person who we don't speak of, on the site we don't speak of. The DS1 guys didn't bring anything up until after the other allegations came to light. I assume the DS1 guys planned on dealing with the situation privately until they read about the stuff from that certain off site blog. WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE IN ANY WAY FOR THE TIMING OF THIS yeah you are, you guys spammed te forums, you guys spammed jita, you guys are only trying to disrupt CCP's daily state of affairs over trivial issues which 99 % of your member know nothing about. As has t just been proven by the fact that someone in DS1 filed a petition. It's been posted about a billion times, but the only reason this came down to forum spam was due to CCP's actions in trying to cover-up this incident. Calling these trivial issues? You're just trolling. The 150 page over this is all the evidence you need that no one on either side considers this trivial. Dan Kaldar is Blacklight..

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