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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
UnIQu3
Amarr DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:05:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Kramer Verone Arkanon, have you talked to the ceo of that corporation?
Why would you even hint that the corporation might be lying when it is highly likely that the reason they only mentioned the issue after that long is because no one in their right mind checks logs unless they notice assets missing?
Legit question.
No contact with the GM's or Devs regarding this issue, at all! We in DS1 would very much like to clear this mess up, but we still left out with no real information we can use.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:08:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Frug on 27/05/2007 23:09:58
Originally by: Kramer Verone
Why would you even hint that the corporation might be lying...
Because of who they went to, because of how they handled it. You do not go contact certin 3rd person parties and bombard forums with drama because of an "honest mistake" or "simple misunderstanding" or any real desire to answer a simple question.
Nobody was "humble" about anything. It was an explosion of sheer stupidity that only benefits people who want to cause sh-- over nothing. If you don't know who these people are, then you need to read up more.
Quote: The paying customers... Please stop attacking the paying customers... they have every right to be upset.
...my account is not on renewal...
Paying customers, paying customers, paying customers, I'm not paying you anymore, I was paying but now I'm not. Money money money money DUDE STFU about paying customers. Talk about arrogance.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Merc998
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:08:00 -
[63]
Originally by: UnIQu3
No contact with the GM's or Devs regarding this issue, at all! We in DS1 would very much like to clear this mess up, but we still left out with no real information we can use.
So this THOROUGH investigation by IA didnt include talking to the corporation at all, didnt include asking them when they filed the petition asking why Sharkbait was in their corps? didnt include asking them if they had reported any problems /bugs etc that may have led to this happening..
So in fact this whole investigation was severely flawed..
*snip* Don't discuss moderation and don't troll -Eldo ([email protected])
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Popsikle
Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:11:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Gilbert Drillerson By talking to all our directors we have been unable to find anyone owning up to a petition from May 6. If it wouldnt be too much to ask, I would humbly ask that CCP makes a contact to our formal CEO character and reveal to him what the petition was about and who made it.
As it is right now, we have NO way of confirming this and no knowledge of any petition filed may 6. It may very well be a true story as we have almost 200 members, but given the amount of drama around this issue, I think we should follow through and get all the mystery revealed.
Gil CO-CEO Darkstar 1
It could be anyone of your members, or anyone of the other 180,000 accounts that play this game. Someone could have noticed your POS shields werent active but couldn't enter the POS, or someone could have been complaining they cant shoot the POS, or hell it might not even be POS related. Someone might have been complaining they tried to apply and got an error or soemthing, who know really.
If they release that information to you they are breaking their privacy policy. And thats bad.
__________________________________________
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Fluffernator
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:14:00 -
[65]
they are already breaking their own policy with the contact between BOB and devs..... I guess they have the right to pick and choose what rule to break, what ever suits them best.
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Hellspawn01
Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:15:00 -
[66]
After reading both news items I still dont fully get it. So shark joined a corp, left it and they start attacking him or what?
Ship lovers click here |
ZeroForce
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:19:00 -
[67]
well CCP congratulations on trying to COVER UP yet another scheme.
1) Debugging tools exist to altering POS states OUTSIDE of joining a corp we are nto fools as many of the player base have done coding before.
2) REGARDLESS of situation a CEO MUST be informed of a GM/Dev joining to sort something out which according to DS1 ***NOTHING*** needed sorting.
3)by not showing who filed the petition you incriminate yourself further....judging by DS1's posts they wud sure like to know who filed this petition.
4)So far you havent even uttered a word of "we sent a reply" which leads me to believe you DID delete the post outright.
5)Petitions are stored on a database like any other piece of information...so wait now your saying a database isnt accessible? what happens when a player posts a flaming thread against CCP? last i checked the last person to do that got a temp ban with *shock* no reply.
6)GM's and Dev's should not have any contact with the player base on a "friends" level especially after the controversial history of CCP would you not agree? such things in most other businesses lead to immediate dismissal.
7)due to these "friend" attachments BOB was able to get a ISD member banned from the game without barely any words to it.
8) you HAVE banned people from the forums for 24hours and deleted posts in attempts to silence people stop trying to kid us we are not blind and word gets around the community.
9) why dont you inform us of how many CCP members are actually IN BOB at the moment...that would be most interesting.
10)Why are BOB members allowed to ORDER around members of ISD? OrangeSpecies seemed rather adament the ISD member Bumped the Dreadnaught yet if it is the standard teleport command for ISD members then it takes you a safe distance from the ship and thus not being able to bump it.
11) CCP has quite literally LOST public trust and im sure that goes without saying...i'd estimate a good 75% of the EVE community has lost its trust in CCP and since the last "incident" with T20 EVE has lost players.
call me "tinfoil hat" or whatever however these issues need to be addressed and answered by CCP...if you are unable to answer these facts then give me one good reason we shud even trust what you say
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Evelgrivion
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:25:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 27/05/2007 23:26:49
Originally by: Kaplanelle
Originally by: CCP kieron The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition.
Whoa, back up there pal. That's not the tone you take with paying customers, ever.
It is, however, the tone you use when you're addressing a little child who is being naughty - which is precisely how many people have handled this whole affair.
Edit: And to the guy above me, they're only done with about 1/4th of the allegations, and this was the easy one. Chill out and let IA do its job
This isn't the signature you're looking for. |
Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:27:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Frug on 27/05/2007 23:28:43
Originally by: ZeroForce .... garbage....
And there you have the perfect, flawless example of everything wrong with this whole issue.
Apparently this zero fellow hasn't even read the OP but feels the need to go on a religious tirade. Nothing CCP could ever do will satisfy this kind of foaming madness.
Originally by: ZeroForce give me one good reason we shud even trust what you say
You don't trust what they say and you never will. Who do you think you're kidding?
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Zenst
Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:27:00 -
[70]
Originally by: LymeM
Originally by: CCP kieron
Originally by: Fofalus Also the response to the deleted petition a separate issue or is just being buried with this one?
It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.
You may want to consider opening a bug report to report the petition system miraculously loosing petitions.
Otherwise, you may want to consider not talking in absolutes when any sql developer knows that you do not need a tool to delete information from a database, a simply sql query window works just fine.
Aha but you need a tool to get that window. Though you would also need a user account upon that database with permisions to delete rows in that table.
But as any SQL/Database admin knows, you have transaction logs. So in essence you can play accountant in that nothing is ever deleted, mearly balanced out as not being there :o).
Players can delete petitions, you have that option. So perhaps further clarity upon this one, dont have to name names - unless they give you permision. Of course technicaly both CCP and the concerned petition raiser need to give permisions as the way it is. Neither party are allowed to publicly discuss a pertition, without the others concent.
Which is of course the right way in handerling such issues as well as covering all involved parties legaly in whatever guise the data protection act is that day.
Sad part about all this though is that we will never see CCP's response upon slashdot, but thats the nature of alot of news we live with today. Though that said I've not read this story upon the BBC site, but then they do have rules about submitted stories ;).
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Relaria Hossin
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:30:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Frug
Because of who they went to, because of how they handled it. You do not go contact certin 3rd person parties and bombard forums with drama because of an "honest mistake" or "simple misunderstanding" or any real desire to answer a simple question.
Nobody was "humble" about anything. It was an explosion of sheer stupidity that only benefits people who want to cause sh-- over nothing. If you don't know who these people are, then you need to read up more.
Before the threadnaught was unleashed the Goonswarm CEO posted a single thread and attempted to be polite about this. The thread was posted after petitions about it disappeared as if by magic. The thread itself then dissappeared 30 seconds after it was posted.
This whole fiasco brings back vivid memories of the t20 incident. At first CCP was going on and on about how nothing happened and how nothing wrong was going on with anything and then after they were hounded endlessly, t20 finally stepped forward and admitted to a token amount of what was being alledged.
It seems that deny deny deny is all CCP will do until they are backed into a corner and are forced to toss the barest bone they can to those hounding them.
V----------THE IMPORTANT PART----------V
ALL OF THIS. EVERY PART OF THIS SCANDAL AND ALL THE OTHERS is merely a symptom of something bigger. This REAL problem is CCP hiring from the playerbase and allowing these players turned employees and volunteers, the very people who answer petitions, run roleplay events and even code the game itself are allowed to keep their player characters "covertly." I am forced to add these quotes because in practice all of their friends apparently know exactly who they are and what their positions are.
No other MMOG company lets their employees do this and there is a very important reason for this. That reason is called conflict of interest.
Unfortunately I am realizing that it is far too late for this to change. CCP has already hired too many players who will never willingly choose between their job/volunteer work or their player accounts.
I am left with the hope that someone in CCP will perhaps see this post or another like it and take a step back from the situation. Please take a look at what you are doing to this game by allowing the GMs, developers and players to fraternize to the point where lines blend and disappear completely.
I do like this game a lot. EVE is the most amazing MMOG on the market today, and will probably continue to be such an epic game for a good long while. However, if this keeps up EVE may become damaged beyond repair. I really do not want to see this happen.
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Ciras Shelby
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:30:00 -
[72]
ZeroForce, awesome post.
I'd like to see CCP break a post like that down and answer it - without all the smokescreen and BS.
BOB and CCP have both acknowledged they have corp members who are devs - that's enough corruption for me, which needs no further explanation.
The other allegations is just further entertainment in how it makes them squirm and avoid the issues with excuses (like how answering a question would be a violation of their *cough* ethics/rules/guidelines/whatever).
Fool me once, shame on you...
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ssorion
Caldari The First Foundation Stella Polar
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:36:00 -
[73]
Originally by: CCP kieron It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.
So SQL queries do not work anymore ?
BTW, what a nice way to reply to paying customers, go on in same fashion, that will definitely make customers trust CCP more.
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Dominique Parr
Taggart Transdimensional
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:41:00 -
[74]
I am utterly amazed that after 4+ years, CCP can still put up with the massive twisting of their words. I don't even think twisting is a strong enough term. Let's go with mincing and mashing and regurgitation of their words.
I want to know exactly all these alts have all this inside information to the internal mechanics of CCP's GM and DEV backend tools.
Oh dear, I may have just added another allegation.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:47:00 -
[75]
Originally by: ssorion
Originally by: CCP kieron It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.
So SQL queries do not work anymore ?
I assume he's saying that nobody but the database admin can delete petitions. And that the people involved aren't database admins.
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:49:00 -
[76]
Originally by: CCP kieron While this issue may seem to be 'the most trivial' as one player stated, it was the first issue brought forward by the accusing player alliance and seemingly the root of their discontent.
We are still continuing with our efforts. Please keep in mind this is an extended weekend and not all the staff are in the office to assist where needed.
Kieron, I have long, long had issues with the way you do your job, but I never suspected you were this unobservant. The fact that a dev jumped into a corp without telling anyone (and, with the evidence that has been seen thus far, possibly without prompting) is indeed the LEAST of our concerns, but it is nothing close to being the root of our discontent.
The root of our discontent is a voulenteer being ousted with no explanation simply because BoB willed it to be so, the fact that BoB was and continues to be given preferential treatment over other alliances, and that T20 has still not been fired. Until you fix all of these issues, attempts to fix minor issues like this instead of tackling the bigger ones will just make us more angry.
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Relaria Hossin
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:49:00 -
[77]
Isn't the database admin the person who appeared in the ISD channel and berated the ISD guy who was then banned? Admiral Charmander or something.
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Toffles
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:53:00 -
[78]
Originally by: CCP kieron
Originally by: Slickoo I know I am new to the game and out of boredom I have been reading this issue so bare with me.
The best I can figure is the incident in question happened yesterday(25th or 26th) but the petition was issued on the 6th. From what I have been reading the time that his happened was not a good one for some battle was going on. Why would it take that long to address a petition and why was this time chosen?
I am new and may not understand, but this seems a little fishy to me. If this is typical timming then it makes more sense to me.
The petition was submited on the 6th of May, Sharkbait acted on the 9th of May and the petition was successfuly closed a few days later. The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition.
The reason it became an issue 3 weeks later is because of all these other allegations coming out. The guy brought it up as an "oh hey that reminds me of something fishy that happened a few weeks ago" type of thing in the middle of the more serious allegations.
The real question everyone should be asking themselves is why Kieron outright lied to the eve community about the t20 incident and expects us to to trust him now. We should also ask ourselves the question why a Kieron, an ex-bob member (possibly current bob member) feels qualified to handle matters relating to his old/current alliance. After all, GM's are forbidden to handle petitions involving alliances they play in, why don't the same rules apply to community managers...
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Sentinel Eeex
Caldari Lords Of Amber
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:57:00 -
[79]
Originally by: CCP kieron
Originally by: Fofalus Also the response to the deleted petition a separate issue or is just being buried with this one?
It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.
Ok. So, DS1 lied, basically - is that the bottom line?
And you are absolutelly positive that noone can delete petitions from database (except db admin, obviuosly)? Not if tools exist, but if anyone except db admin has db access that would allow him to delete records?
Thanks.
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Moving Along
ARM Logistical Support
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:57:00 -
[80]
Originally by: ZeroForce theres a goddamn good point "GM's are forbidden to handle petitions of alliances they are involved in" oh yeh well they dont they just MSN a dev to sort it dont they?
also Kieron WAS a BoB member (possibly still) and DID either lie or be blatently blind about the whole T20 incident i personally think we should have a DIFFERENT communtiy manager for CCP
proof?
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Rebellion
Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:58:00 -
[81]
Wow, you guys are just firing allegations all over the place now, eh?
It won't kill anyone to just live on their lives for a week and give people time to do their jobs properly.
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Francesca Dell'Agio
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:59:00 -
[82]
Folks, keep in mind that as a company, CCP cannot expose themselves to legal liability by going public with details on all elements involved. Just not possible, if you own a company in RL, you know the legalities of such challenges.
Gil > don't count on your request being heard.
Those of us who have been in EVE since before day zero, who have witnessed how the game was evolved, those have all seen one or the other aspect of social engineering and trend management getting out of control at one or the other point in time. But in these days where polarisation is controlling this many aspects of the game universe it's time to revise relationships as well as perception.
Regardless of the case, the trends perceived to be active, the drama, etc. EVE has a structural problem these days, I do hope that all sides realise that as a commercial venture as well as an enjoyable game the factor Trust is the predominant factor for succes and entertainment alike.
As for the rest, all sides involved are seriously into the realm of debunking, a method which is typically very bad for marketing, management and solution finding alike.
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ZeroForce
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Posted - 2007.05.28 00:00:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Moving Along
Originally by: ZeroForce theres a goddamn good point "GM's are forbidden to handle petitions of alliances they are involved in" oh yeh well they dont they just MSN a dev to sort it dont they?
also Kieron WAS a BoB member (possibly still) and DID either lie or be blatently blind about the whole T20 incident i personally think we should have a DIFFERENT communtiy manager for CCP
proof?
proof BoB have admitted such things themselves in their posts THERE'S my proof. the BoB forum brigade needs to back off and shut up this WONT be stopped by your mindless smack talk
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Major Stormer
Caldari Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.05.28 00:00:00 -
[84]
Originally by: CCP kieron
Originally by: Fofalus Also the response to the deleted petition a separate issue or is just being buried with this one?
It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.
Pwned.
In the face.
With a frying pan.
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ZeroForce
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Posted - 2007.05.28 00:01:00 -
[85]
as another note according to legal laws this game is a "sandbox" meaning this is a open ended and completely level playing field....i hope CCP realises if they fail to resolve this issue people ARE able to take legal action through their respective credit card companies
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Elmo Noguchi
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.05.28 00:04:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 28/05/2007 00:02:36
Originally by: CCP kieron
Originally by: Fofalus Also the response to the deleted petition a separate issue or is just being buried with this one?
It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.
So they weren't deleted, they were ignored. God knows it's happened to me before.
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Shipzz
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Posted - 2007.05.28 00:04:00 -
[87]
Originally by: CCP kieron
Originally by: Slickoo I know I am new to the game and out of boredom I have been reading this issue so bare with me.
The best I can figure is the incident in question happened yesterday(25th or 26th) but the petition was issued on the 6th. From what I have been reading the time that his happened was not a good one for some battle was going on. Why would it take that long to address a petition and why was this time chosen?
I am new and may not understand, but this seems a little fishy to me. If this is typical timming then it makes more sense to me.
The petition was submited on the 6th of May, Sharkbait acted on the 9th of May and the petition was successfuly closed a few days later. The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition.
Well, for one, no one in Darkstar 1 can figure out who sent this petition, so it being closed on the 9th isn't something that they would have known about.
What they did notice, after the fact, is that for no reason that they know about, CCP Sharkbait entered their corp and gave himself roles with no communication before or after it happened. When they actually noticed it is anyone's guess, could have been immediately, could have taken several days.
Then, they send petitions and they get no response--with petitions either closed or deleted. How long they waited for no response I don't know, but some petitions can take weeks and they may have actually waited that long before saying anything.
It was only then that they used the forums as a way to try to get some explanation for this unexplained behavior. And here we are now.
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Moving Along
ARM Logistical Support
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Posted - 2007.05.28 00:04:00 -
[88]
Originally by: ZeroForce
Originally by: Moving Along
Originally by: ZeroForce theres a goddamn good point "GM's are forbidden to handle petitions of alliances they are involved in" oh yeh well they dont they just MSN a dev to sort it dont they?
also Kieron WAS a BoB member (possibly still) and DID either lie or be blatently blind about the whole T20 incident i personally think we should have a DIFFERENT communtiy manager for CCP
proof?
proof BoB have admitted such things themselves in their posts THERE'S my proof. the BoB forum brigade needs to back off and shut up this WONT be stopped by your mindless smack talk
Stop trolling and spamming the forum with your theories. Provide hard proof that backs up your original claim. If you can't do that, then gtfo.
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Moving Along
ARM Logistical Support
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Posted - 2007.05.28 00:05:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 28/05/2007 00:02:36
Originally by: CCP kieron
Originally by: Fofalus Also the response to the deleted petition a separate issue or is just being buried with this one?
It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.
So they weren't deleted, they were ignored. God knows it's happened to me before.
haha ... i know how ya feel :(
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Thargat
Caldari S-44 Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2007.05.28 00:08:00 -
[90]
The issue was petitioned at may 6th. Fixed at may 9. Remedial stepped down from GS leadership on the 10th. And I remember reading somthing about the reason behind it somewhere on these forums (had to do with Remedial not wanting to be drawn into something that might put him in trouble IRL). Something smells fishy.....
Just my two cents of tinfoilhattery.
If you don't like what I say, just ignore it, or admit I got to you. |
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