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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Teldan Powers
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:00:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Marcus TheDealer Strange - is Sharkbait a Database Administrator Kieron? If so, a database administrator can delete a petition if it is the database - correct? So I do believe your statement as a GM or Developer is correct but a database administrator can, so your last part is false. There are built in tools to delete stuff in the database. So you are carefully wording your comments or you do not know what you are talking about.
I would imagine that anyone with the level of database access required to delete a petition without a trace could also 1) Join and leave a corporation without sending a mail message to the CEO 2) Query out absolutely any kind of information from the database that they wanted to know without having to join any particular corp to get it in-game
Having said that, it does seem reasonable for QA or other devs to send an explicit corp email after joining in order to explain why they're there. I would certainly support asking CCP to make this kind of policy change.
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Phrixus Zephyr
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:01:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 28/05/2007 01:00:23
Originally by: Fdjhbsasgfdsdfgfdsrethbg I find it hard to believe that such basic functionality like deleting petitions/removing petitions from a support queue don't exist in the eve backend.
Reasonable
But given all the other dodgey stuff in here lately, I guess it's possible.
Slipping
So what we have here is a Bob alt spy petitioned something because he couldn't cause mischief he intended, and his CCP pal came in and fixed it for him.
WOAH TINFOIL!!!1
Nice.
Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
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Candy
Applied Eugenics
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:02:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Malloc Memrel meaning the Darkstar 1 CEO is a liar, or the petition was filed and was subsequently ignored.
What about the possibility that the petition was filed, addressed, and because of CCP's own policies it can't be discussed on the forums?
Why are you giving so much credit to the members of DS1? We know for a fact at this point that they were trying to insinuate something they knew to be false. That's called lying. Because of this, I'm more inclined to believe that there was a communication and it's being selectively ignored by DS1.
When a GM couldn't solve some obscure problem through the tools provided, a developer looked into the problem and managed to resolve it. ------------------------------------
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Grox
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:02:00 -
[124]
gjob cant wait for the other answer;s. this will happen everytime somthing can even be a lil bit questionable, ccp;s credibility and the underlying sentiment bob;s work in ccp and devs play with them and there pets will always remain:/ put some devs in the northern coalition i guess and make it fair,, or bring m0o baCK and kill us all plz,
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Counterparty
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:06:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Marcus TheDealer
There are built in tools to delete stuff in the database. So you are carefully wording your comments or you do not know what you are talking about.
Which enterprise grade databases do you administer?? You can't just right click 'Empty Trash'. These systems are designed to not lose data. Changing tables leaves a audit log and revision histories keep the past data.
Erasing that, without leaving a trace that anything was erased, while keeping the system in production mode, is impossible.
I believe Sharkbait is content, not operations. |
Ediz Daxx
FinFleet
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:10:00 -
[126]
So two swings and two misses by the goonies and they just cant let it rest. I bet it will go from, CCP is corrupt to CCP is covering up. If you cant trust the people in charge of a video game how the hell do you trust people at power in your own country. If you dont trust the people at power in your own country then its time you start prioritizing(sp?) on which is more important.
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Marcus TheDealer
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:10:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Counterparty
Originally by: Marcus TheDealer
There are built in tools to delete stuff in the database. So you are carefully wording your comments or you do not know what you are talking about.
Which enterprise grade databases do you administer?? You can't just right click 'Empty Trash'. These systems are designed to not lose data. Changing tables leaves a audit log and revision histories keep the past data.
Erasing that, without leaving a trace that anything was erased, while keeping the system in production mode, is impossible.
I believe Sharkbait is content, not operations.
Hehe 'empty trash' that is a good one. Maybe surf the net and read up on SQL - you can try it at home with your machine if you wish - go into the system events and delete your logs - but you have to be an admistrator to do it - and it can be done 'on the fly' :)
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Flaming Lemming
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:11:00 -
[128]
From the big thread, seems more appropriate here.
Originally by: Flaming Lemming
Well then, IF Sharkbait had informed the CEO via Eve-mail that he was joining to do whatever..as appears to be policy, or if someone had given DS1 this info in response to their petition, then the *appearance* of impropriety would have been avoided...and after the T20 incident, even the appearance of impropriety should be something CCP desperately tries to avoid.
Of course, that still leaves the other topics raised.
I'm just an Alt....but my main doesn't have a sig either.
there's no such thing as bad press |
ssorion
Caldari The First Foundation Stella Polar
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:17:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Dark Shikari I assume he's saying that nobody but the database admin can delete petitions. And that the people involved aren't database admins.
Arent they ? Lets see. GS questioned behavior of two CCP staff members, 'CCP Sharkbait' and 'CCP Admiral Chamrajnagar'. Not sure on the 1st one, i believe he is either developer or IT-related admin, but second IS database admin. He claimed that himself in his ingame bio, and on eve-o forums numerous times.
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Kala amortis
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:19:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Kala amortis on 28/05/2007 01:19:59
Originally by: Candy
Originally by: Malloc Memrel meaning the Darkstar 1 CEO is a liar, or the petition was filed and was subsequently ignored.
What about the possibility that the petition was filed, addressed, and because of CCP's own policies it can't be discussed on the forums?
Why are you giving so much credit to the members of DS1? We know for a fact at this point that they were trying to insinuate something they knew to be false. That's called lying. Because of this, I'm more inclined to believe that there was a communication and it's being selectively ignored by DS1.
When a GM couldn't solve some obscure problem through the tools provided, a developer looked into the problem and managed to resolve it.
there was no communication between ccp an ds1 as ccp stated but ccp would of stated sharkbaits mail ds1 ceo if he had in order to end this messs ds1 tried petions convo and mails to ask what happened which i am sure ccp can comfirm and what reason do u have to believe ds1 is lying to us? i mean we know ccp has lied and made miss statements in the past and any1 can see the new 1s today....if ccp would quit trying to cover up suppres and hide stuff like a 3rd world ruler...i would be more inclined to believe them
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:29:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Kala amortis what reason do u have to believe ds1 is lying to us? i mean we know ccp has lied and made miss statements in the past and any1 can see the new 1s today....if ccp would quit trying to cover up suppres and hide stuff like a 3rd world ruler...i would be more inclined to believe them
What reasons do we have to believe ds1 is lying and that this is all horse****?
Partially because many of the people on your side of this debate write posts with the eloquence and grammatical ability of a chimpanzee with its arms cut off. Partially because of the lack of content of your claims, and partially because people like this are exactly the kind of people who would lie about this stuff.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Elspeth Vigneron
Caldari Phoenix Logistics Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:30:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Teldan Powers
Originally by: ZeroForce a child molester is not allowed to work in a nursery for exmaple...you fool once a liar always a liar change of the CCP staff is needed unless they decide to actually make a difference instead of sitting around twiddling their thumbs waiting for this to resolve while people are getting hold of their credit card companies claiming FRAUD in this game as they are legally obliged to do as this game has been proven not to be a "sandbox" meaning an open ended game so i hope CCP can sort this out
Comparing child sexual abuse to internet spaceships is a bit over-the-top. You're some kind of troll who's trying to discredit the side you purport to speak for, aren't you?
Jeeze, reading comprehension much? Ever? You may not like the over-the-top analogy, but it's a correct analogy. And, FYI, usually people make these over-the-top analogies when blockheads can't grasp a simple concept. So they really have to blow it up... Phoenix Logistics Industries |
WhitePhantom
Gallente Edenists
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:33:00 -
[133]
MotherMoon You petitioned who does he expect to answer...
You should have gone through the correct means and contacted IA directly.
Regarding DS not telling the truth, they claimed the petetion was "deleted" yet were being told thats not possible.
My question is and only the people who admit to opening a petition, should answer this question, how long did you wait for a response?
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Counterparty
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:34:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Marcus TheDealer
Maybe surf the net and read up on SQL
So you learned all you need to know about admin while surfing the net. You have a bright future in the database field.
Enterprise data persistence and access controls don't exist on my PC or yours. Maybe when I buy that home SAN and implement card control systems for all high level access users in the family, I will try out your at home suggestions.
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Teldan Powers
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:36:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Elspeth Vigneron
Originally by: Teldan Powers Comparing child sexual abuse to internet spaceships is a bit over-the-top. You're some kind of troll who's trying to discredit the side you purport to speak for, aren't you?
Jeeze, reading comprehension much? Ever? You may not like the over-the-top analogy, but it's a correct analogy. And, FYI, usually people make these over-the-top analogies when blockheads can't grasp a simple concept. So they really have to blow it up...
Let me humour you with a helpful suggestion, then: when trying to clarify something by making an analogy, don't distract from the topic by using an inflammatory comparison. It creates more heat than light.
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Elspeth Vigneron
Caldari Phoenix Logistics Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:36:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Popsikle
Originally by: LymeM
Originally by: CCP kieron
The petition was submited on the 6th of May, Sharkbait acted on the 9th of May and the petition was successfuly closed a few days later. The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition.
The community would appreciate a substantiation of this statement by the posting of the petition in question, with who petitioned it.
What community? The SA community? I know your not speaking about the EVE community. Most people in the EVE community would be pretty angy if CCP broke their privacy policy on petitions because a bunch of naysayers asked them to.
YOu don't speak for most people. No matter how much you think you do. You speak for yourself and only yourself unless people have given you the power of representation.
Now, only way to find out if YOUR ASSERTION is true is put it to the vote. Or take a scientic poll, pehaps. Off the top of my head, I'm guessing it'd take less than 500 or so people to get a 95% confidence interval.
And, BTW, how many people knew/know that petions are private? I didn't. Not a single corpie on line did either (there's 14-right now). I'm hopeful some knew. But they're not on-line. Phoenix Logistics Industries |
Elspeth Vigneron
Caldari Phoenix Logistics Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:37:00 -
[137]
*snip* removed ref to deleted post -Eldo ([email protected]) Phoenix Logistics Industries |
Evelgrivion
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:38:00 -
[138]
*snip* removed ref to deleted post -Eldo ([email protected])
This isn't the signature you're looking for. |
Popsikle
Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:54:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Elspeth Vigneron
Originally by: Popsikle
Originally by: LymeM
Originally by: CCP kieron
The petition was submited on the 6th of May, Sharkbait acted on the 9th of May and the petition was successfuly closed a few days later. The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition.
The community would appreciate a substantiation of this statement by the posting of the petition in question, with who petitioned it.
What community? The SA community? I know your not speaking about the EVE community. Most people in the EVE community would be pretty angy if CCP broke their privacy policy on petitions because a bunch of naysayers asked them to.
YOu don't speak for most people. No matter how much you think you do. You speak for yourself and only yourself unless people have given you the power of representation.
Now, only way to find out if YOUR ASSERTION is true is put it to the vote. Or take a scientic poll, pehaps. Off the top of my head, I'm guessing it'd take less than 500 or so people to get a 95% confidence interval.
And, BTW, how many people knew/know that petions are private? I didn't. Not a single corpie on line did either (there's 14-right now). I'm hopeful some knew. But they're not on-line.
Actually, I can safely say I speak for most people in this regards. As the majority of consumers of any product, especially those online, get a bit ****ed off when a company breaks its privacy policy.
And the fact that you and your corp mates dont know that petitions are private, im sorry but your not very good at reading up about things. If you want you can read EVE's privacy policy, or for a brief synopsis you can check out the last paragraph on this page:
Linkage
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Andrus Delai
Trinity Inc
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:59:00 -
[140]
I can understand why CCP doesn't want to make the petition public, but they should give the petition information to the CEO of DS1. The Corp owns the POS and they have every right to know who is filing petitions on their behalf.
In addition, CCP either needs to create a policy for Corp access in the future, or if Sharkbait went against policy have him apologize. In any event, the players need to be aware of the policy.
Also, CCP needs to talk to DS1 and figure out where communications broke down to ensure that this does not happen in the future. I beleive that there is guilt on both sides of this and everyone involved needs to have an honest dialogue.
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raven415
Caldari Special Projects Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.28 02:16:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Popsikle Im pretty sure the goons owe sharkbait an apology for attempting to slander his name, Kieron and Ark an apology for making them work thru the night on a holiday weekend, and the general eve forum population for shutting down the forums when it wasn't needed.
signed
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Alois Hammer
Minmatar Hammers Slammers Slammer's Republic
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Posted - 2007.05.28 02:19:00 -
[142]
i belive both sides here have some explaining to do. 1.) i find it distressing that a head of relations dept. has been accused of playing in-game.that allegation should be addressed. 2.)the snipping of forum-posts. stop it. unless its obscene it should be read.currently both parties should present what they have for proof , otherwise shut it or stop trying to cover it up. 3.)No game in the world allows its employees to be activly involved in-game. period. Kierons admission that he was activly trying to get his old account back smacks of trying to play the game underhanded. to me thats a direct admission .
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Duck Andcover
Don't be Alarmed
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Posted - 2007.05.28 02:23:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Relaria Hossin No other MMOG company lets their employees do this and there is a very important reason for this. That reason is called conflict of interest.
Is that so. Sony online did with everquest, the whole front line petition answering 'staff' was playing volunteers known as guides. They didn't wield very much real power, partly due to policy, but still called the shots about who got what reimbursed and why. In return they played for free.
To avoid misconduct, there was a condition about not playing the same server you worked. Guess how much that held up. And yes, misconduct happened, in which case the volunteer was quietly slipped out the back and the matter ignored.
I'm willing to bet volunteer management is not at all uncommon in the mmo world.
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eleuthereus
Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.28 02:30:00 -
[144]
Originally by: CCP kieron It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.
???
A GM or dev might not do it. But can someone else do it? Are the non-existent "tools" you speak of simply those in the toolbox of a dev/GM? Or do they not exist in anyone's toolbox?
In other wods, are you saying there is no way that anyone, anywhere in CCP can delete a petition? If this is true, then are you saying every single petition that has ever been created is still somewhere in your database form the last 4 years?
I am not a computer genius, so I find these statements very puzzling. Can someone explain to me what this all means here? This is all getting very odd. According to Darkstar 1 CEOs, as of 2:26 EVE time, we still have not found any petitions for anything bugged on, or near, May 6th. Form what we have found there were some bugged BPOs back in February. But that's it. All POS's and BPO's were working fine, from what I have seen, on and around May 6th.
JUST TELL US -- what the heck was that petition for EXACTLY, and what did Sharkbait do during those 15 minutes. If a petition was indeed filed by Darkstar 1, where is the final answer back from Sharkbait telling whoever filed the petition that the problem was fixed -- whatever that problem was. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Popsikle
Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.28 02:36:00 -
[145]
Originally by: eleuthereus
Originally by: CCP kieron It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.
???
A GM or dev might not do it. But can someone else do it? Are the non-existent "tools" you speak of simply those in the toolbox of a dev/GM? Or do they not exist in anyone's toolbox?
In other wods, are you saying there is no way that anyone, anywhere in CCP can delete a petition? If this is true, then are you saying every single petition that has ever been created is still somewhere in your database form the last 4 years?
I am not a computer genius, so I find these statements very puzzling. Can someone explain to me what this all means here? This is all getting very odd. According to Darkstar 1 CEOs, as of 2:26 EVE time, we still have not found any petitions for anything bugged on, or near, May 6th. Form what we have found there were some bugged BPOs back in February. But that's it. All POS's and BPO's were working fine, from what I have seen, on and around May 6th.
JUST TELL US -- what the heck was that petition for EXACTLY, and what did Sharkbait do during those 15 minutes. If a petition was indeed filed by Darkstar 1, where is the final answer back from Sharkbait telling whoever filed the petition that the problem was fixed -- whatever that problem was.
I still have petitions that I opened 3 years ago show up under my account, so I would assume that they last forever. I am assuming this based on my personal experience and what Keiron said.
You can check all your petition here: Linkage
"5/16/2004 Ship to Damaged? Stuck Closed" is one of my older ones that is still listed.
__________________________________________
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Gabriel Death
Caldari Pog Mo Thoin
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Posted - 2007.05.28 02:36:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Duck Andcover
Originally by: Relaria Hossin No other MMOG company lets their employees do this and there is a very important reason for this. That reason is called conflict of interest.
Is that so. Sony online did with everquest, the whole front line petition answering 'staff' was playing volunteers known as guides. They didn't wield very much real power, partly due to policy, but still called the shots about who got what reimbursed and why. In return they played for free.
To avoid misconduct, there was a condition about not playing the same server you worked. Guess how much that held up. And yes, misconduct happened, in which case the volunteer was quietly slipped out the back and the matter ignored.
I'm willing to bet volunteer management is not at all uncommon in the mmo world.
but that doesent work on a server that has no other worlds like eve, devs have jove empire, to mess around with and that, so the rest of eve should not concern them.
the only things they need to worry about are bugs, but bugs are found and terminated on Dt and on the test server.
so that leads me back to my original statement, the eve world should not concern them, cause they should have nothing to do with it.
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raven415
Caldari Special Projects Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.28 02:38:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Ignoring some of the more rediculous theories and tediously biased opinions from both sides for a moment.
This particular issue could have been sorted very simply. Telling DS1 what was happening, answering them when they asked why it happened, talking to them at least once while it was being investigated.
Blanket censorship is what brought this on and nothing else. The first time it happened turned up spawned BPO's, can you really blame everyone for being suspicious when history starts to repeat itself?
you do understand that ccp fixes things when they can not when a ceo is online. if goons want ccp to wait to fix things for them till there ceo is on thats fine with me. i however am willing to take something being fixed right away. oh and my ceo doesnt see my petitions so whe would a goon ceo know whats going on. oh nm goons
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JonLuc McPew
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Posted - 2007.05.28 02:38:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Duck Andcover
Originally by: Relaria Hossin No other MMOG company lets their employees do this and there is a very important reason for this. That reason is called conflict of interest.
Is that so. Sony online did with everquest, the whole front line petition answering 'staff' was playing volunteers known as guides. They didn't wield very much real power, partly due to policy, but still called the shots about who got what reimbursed and why. In return they played for free.
To avoid misconduct, there was a condition about not playing the same server you worked. Guess how much that held up. And yes, misconduct happened, in which case the volunteer was quietly slipped out the back and the matter ignored.
I'm willing to bet volunteer management is not at all uncommon in the mmo world.
Maybe, but they sure as hell dont have Dev's in game shaking Alliances on a single server game that frequently has "misconduct" problems over and over with the same Alliance.
The main point is just this:
Some players should not have special GM/Dev access (MSN Messenger,etc) that other groups do not have, ever. Yet, this is calmly confirmed and flaunted, even "justified" because they've been playing the game for years. This REALLY trips peoples triggers. If you dont see why, your either a mouthpiece fanboy, blind, or have no sense of conflict of interest or any idea of what a "level playing field means" to people.
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Loyal Servant
Caldari The Short Bus Squad The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2007.05.28 02:38:00 -
[149]
This STINKS to high heavens.
First off, Sharkbait responds to an escalated petition - but nobody can find the petition...
Strange, huh?
The author of this petition is some mystery person...
Then, we have kieron here insighting the playerbase against the goons?
<--Baffled.
Sorry guys but it all stinks.
PLAYERS CAN DELETE PETITIONS IN THEIR PETITION SCREEN!
I am assuming you keep copies, but why?
Goons: get all directors in DS1 to post screenshots of their petition dialogs.
If DS1 is PUBLICALLY asking for the answer - give it to them! You hay have the answer that puts it all to bed FFS!
TSBS - Eve's Premier podding service!
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eleuthereus
Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.28 02:42:00 -
[150]
Well, I'm just all confused now. lol. Glad it's just a game. sigh. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
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