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Story in the New York Times.

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Hammer Judge Gallente Southern Cross Incorporated Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.06.08 03:04:00 - [361] This is an incredible initiative. - My newbie guide for experienced MMO gamers.
Taikun Brunel Gallente Evolved Gamer Zzz	Posted - 2007.06.08 03:40:00 - [362] Quote: So now, in a sociological twist, the company that makes Eve, CCP, based in Iceland (population 300,000), says it will tackle the problem the way a democracy would. In what appears to be a first, the company plans to hold elections so that players can select members of an oversight committee. Because CCP experiement with democracy in these forums have worked so very well. This will be nothing but a poularity content with representatives of the largest alliances having a voice. Accordingly issues raised will be relevent to their interests and needs. Sounds like nothing more than media spin pandering to the liberal readers of ther NY Times. I was surprised not to read it was George Bush's fault for lag. Innovative, no. Been done before in many games. Everquest had class representatives put forward by their respective communities to organise information and top 10 issues list. Didn't work for them, but CCP thinks this is new and different? Why? Because the dullards who play this game are somehow more mature and sophisticated than those of other MMORPGs?? Give me a break. Don't get sucked in by media hype and experience the tiny buzz but empty existance that level of thinking brings.
Thesas Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.06.08 04:34:00 - [363] The NYT placing this story under the ôartsö should indicate the nature of this effort. Theater is a useful public relations tool and this smells quite like professional PR. It is an ingenious idea and Mr. Petursson is quite clever. To counter the negative drama will of course require positive drama to encompass and build upon it. The New York Times article combined with advertising and a dash of PR is an excellent means to draw attention to Eve.. Good show. The elections are a novel twist but I hope CCP recognizes the fine line they walk in an effort like this. If this elected group is not widely viewed as above reproach, it will create more negative drama and press than good. The professionalism and ability of elected gamers will be at issue as this effort moves forward. I would hope that a few credible experts will be in that mix as well, or the results will be meaningless. In my mind, there is but one thing that matters, and that is what has kept me on the fence waiting to decide on continuing this game. This theater will not distract many from what they require to continue in Eve. I suspect that I am not alone in my desire to see a basic policy defined that insures the integrity and fairness of this game. The present status quo and perception of favoritism is quite damning to this game. At the end of this theater, that is what is going to matter to this one customer. Delving into past circumstances and allegations are futile, and irrelevant to the people who simply want to know that regardless of what has happened before, what happens henceforth shall be equitable to all concerned. A good show to be sure, but we shall see what the reviews say afterwards.
Kuseka Adama Gallente WOLFPACK DELTA	Posted - 2007.06.08 04:59:00 - [364] Please get it right. Its the new york slimes. I hate this paper it is rife with bias it never prints the whole truth and it has let its people get away with degrading the term journalist time and time again. It was this newspaper among others that made sure i NEVER got into that field i couldnt take that kind of self abuse. Journalists these days have no balls no guts and care only about what their bosses tell them to care about. I honestly dont care what this article says and i likely wont read it. From what i have read in this thread something might happen. But the fact is unless CCP comes out publicly and says its going to there is no way you can confirm jack. Leave it be and consider the damned sources.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.08 05:00:00 - [365] Originally by: Kuseka Adama Please get it right. Its the new york slimes. I hate this paper it is rife with bias it never prints the whole truth and it has let its people get away with degrading the term journalist time and time again. It was this newspaper among others that made sure i NEVER got into that field i couldnt take that kind of self abuse. Journalists these days have no balls no guts and care only about what their bosses tell them to care about. I honestly dont care what this article says and i likely wont read it. From what i have read in this thread something might happen. But the fact is unless CCP comes out publicly and says its going to there is no way you can confirm jack. Leave it be and consider the damned sources. Troll much? -23 Member- EVE Video makers: save Chribba bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
FarScape III	Posted - 2007.06.08 05:09:00 - [366] As a newspaper that is looked at by non gamers it show them some of the coolest aspects of EVE like the one world and how important it is. And how EVE smaller then the WoW MMO has even much larger Alliances. Your average person out there is going to be wowed but in an EVE sort of way. P.S. WoW being the largest still does not compare to EVE for these reasons. A Minmater City... Cool! My Stats :)
Phoebus Athenian Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.08 05:14:00 - [367] Applauds Yes, you've done it! Transparency is the way, and... wow I'm amazed that you're actually listening to your community. Two thumbs up... I'm looking forward to hearing from this democratic effort. ---
Kuseka Adama Gallente WOLFPACK DELTA	Posted - 2007.06.08 05:18:00 - [368] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Kuseka Adama Please get it right. Its the new york slimes. I hate this paper it is rife with bias it never prints the whole truth and it has let its people get away with degrading the term journalist time and time again. It was this newspaper among others that made sure i NEVER got into that field i couldnt take that kind of self abuse. Journalists these days have no balls no guts and care only about what their bosses tell them to care about. I honestly dont care what this article says and i likely wont read it. From what i have read in this thread something might happen. But the fact is unless CCP comes out publicly and says its going to there is no way you can confirm jack. Leave it be and consider the damned sources. Troll much? actually no. I have a particular dislike for this newspaper and its affiliates due to recent incidents and the general degredation of a once honorable profession. Of which they had a key hand. To see it lauded about with such authority as if it actually means something annoys me. The NYT is quickly becoming irrelevent. All i am saying is consider the source of this article before believing its validity.
FarScape III	Posted - 2007.06.08 05:24:00 - [369] Edited by: FarScape III on 08/06/2007 05:22:53 Originally by: Kuseka Adama Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Kuseka Adama Please get it right. Its the new york slimes. I hate this paper it is rife with bias it never prints the whole truth and it has let its people get away with degrading the term journalist time and time again. It was this newspaper among others that made sure i NEVER got into that field i couldnt take that kind of self abuse. Journalists these days have no balls no guts and care only about what their bosses tell them to care about. I honestly dont care what this article says and i likely wont read it. From what i have read in this thread something might happen. But the fact is unless CCP comes out publicly and says its going to there is no way you can confirm jack. Leave it be and consider the damned sources. Troll much? actually no. I have a particular dislike for this newspaper and its affiliates due to recent incidents and the general degredation of a once honorable profession. Of which they had a key hand. To see it lauded about with such authority as if it actually means something annoys me. The NYT is quickly becoming irrelevent. All i am saying is consider the source of this article before believing its validity. You do not like the paper so you do not read it, cool No problem. Then do not read it, especialy since you're in a free country and will not get killed for not reading it. I have no love for the NY times either but the story is a good one IMO. A Minmater City... Cool! My Stats :)
Taikun Brunel Gallente Evolved Gamer Zzz	Posted - 2007.06.08 05:29:00 - [370] Originally by: Phoebus Athenian Applauds Yes, you've done it! Transparency is the way, and... wow I'm amazed that you're actually listening to your community. Two thumbs up... I'm looking forward to hearing from this democratic effort. See above for definition of a kool-aid drinker.

Richard Aiel Caldari The Funkstars Guild	Posted - 2007.06.08 06:04:00 - [371] "The company will then fly those players to Iceland regularly so they can audit CCPÆs operations and report back to their player-constituents." Honestly, holy crap who could DO that regularily?? Am I the only relatively poor guy in this game? The only guy that has a normal job? I damn sure couldnt take that kinda time off on a regular basis. I only get 2 weeks every 6 MONTHS to take off in Vaca time - an thats UNPAID BTW Yeah, they pay you but are they gonna find a new job for you when you get back? Cause flying to Iceland more than once in six months is gonna cost me my current one... Fine... Ill play nice
FarScape III	Posted - 2007.06.08 06:06:00 - [372] After reading the NY timeÆs article I get this gist... BoB wants to take over the entire EVE galaxy? Why? Sounds boring :) They sound like that one thing in Star Wars, "The Empire" You join them out of necessity but you're not really free. Are they like that though? IÆm not sure. If they are really good, then it sounds like it is just some governing force, boring ustelling us what to do and were to go. I'm not saying I'm right or want to join the rebellion or anything, it just reminds me of the Empire, kinda funny I think. is 0.0 really 0.0 if it is controlled? A Minmater City... Cool! My Stats :)
Seth Enkar Gallente High Guard Argosy	Posted - 2007.06.08 06:07:00 - [373] Edited by: Seth Enkar on 08/06/2007 06:12:07 Elections? Oversight Committee? What a crock of **. I agree it's a good idea, but there's NO way that the representatives are going to be truly representative of everyone in eve unless certain sa*uards are put in place. hell, i'd go so far as to say that given the sheer SIZE of the voting block that BoB, Goonswarm, and the other big alliances control, most, if not all of these "Oversight Representatives" will be chosen by these big alliances. i personally think the big alliances should be barred from having any of their people anywhere near this. This way, it's guaranteed that you get a committee of the people, for the people. Like most everyone else in this thread, i'd love like hell to get nominated.
Hitake Kakshi	Posted - 2007.06.08 06:10:00 - [374] Edited by: Hitake Kakshi on 08/06/2007 06:09:57 never mind.
Seth Enkar Gallente High Guard Argosy	Posted - 2007.06.08 06:13:00 - [375] Originally by: Richard Aiel "The company will then fly those players to Iceland regularly so they can audit CCPÆs operations and report back to their player-constituents." Honestly, holy crap who could DO that regularily?? Am I the only relatively poor guy in this game? The only guy that has a normal job? I damn sure couldnt take that kinda time off on a regular basis. I only get 2 weeks every 6 MONTHS to take off in Vaca time - an thats UNPAID BTW Yeah, they pay you but are they gonna find a new job for you when you get back? Cause flying to Iceland more than once in six months is gonna cost me my current one... lol i'm terribly poor. i'm fairly certain you make more than me, and i don't even know wtf you do. But even though i am perpetually broke, If elected to a position like this, i'd take time off (hell, make the time even) to go do this. It'd be not only cool as hell, but it's a good thing to do. Stuff like this is a calling.
Kuseka Adama Gallente WOLFPACK DELTA	Posted - 2007.06.08 06:15:00 - [376] On a more serious note i would suggest that if this actually happens that each alliance get ONE rep. Period end of story. Alliance leadership gets to choose who. If there is any intimidation on by any alliance to another that alliance loses its slot in this potential group for a period of no less than three months.
Hitake Kakshi	Posted - 2007.06.08 06:17:00 - [377] Originally by: Kuseka Adama On a more serious note i would suggest that if this actually happens that each alliance get ONE rep. Period end of story. Alliance leadership gets to choose who. If there is any intimidation on by any alliance to another that alliance loses its slot in this potential group for a period of no less than three months. Now are you talking one alliance rep in ADDITION to the 9 chosen, or are you suggesting that they be part of the 9 chosen?..i mean how many alliances are there? that's a pretty tall order.
Kuseka Adama Gallente WOLFPACK DELTA	Posted - 2007.06.08 06:21:00 - [378] Originally by: Hitake Kakshi Originally by: Kuseka Adama On a more serious note i would suggest that if this actually happens that each alliance get ONE rep. Period end of story. Alliance leadership gets to choose who. If there is any intimidation on by any alliance to another that alliance loses its slot in this potential group for a period of no less than three months. Now are you talking one alliance rep in ADDITION to the 9 chosen, or are you suggesting that they be part of the 9 chosen?..i mean how many alliances are there? that's a pretty tall order. No flat out remove the nine chosen and give every alliance one voice. Otherwise its going to be exactly as predicted by others goonswarm and bob and all the other massive alliances will have their own slots and none of the lesser alliances/single corps will have a say at all. There is a significant problem with what is being requested here the: fact that so many are consolidated. It is likely that alliances like roadkill Red alliance BoB Goonswarm and others with over 1500 players would flat out DOMINATE any serious vote taking through either intmidiation or flat out having more people than the others. This has to be addressed before this vote can take place.
Seth Enkar Gallente High Guard Argosy	Posted - 2007.06.08 06:35:00 - [379] Originally by: Kuseka Adama Originally by: Hitake Kakshi Originally by: Kuseka Adama On a more serious note i would suggest that if this actually happens that each alliance get ONE rep. Period end of story. Alliance leadership gets to choose who. If there is any intimidation on by any alliance to another that alliance loses its slot in this potential group for a period of no less than three months. Now are you talking one alliance rep in ADDITION to the 9 chosen, or are you suggesting that they be part of the 9 chosen?..i mean how many alliances are there? that's a pretty tall order. No flat out remove the nine chosen and give every alliance one voice. Otherwise its going to be exactly as predicted by others goonswarm and bob and all the other massive alliances will have their own slots and none of the lesser alliances/single corps will have a say at all. There is a significant problem with what is being requested here the: fact that so many are consolidated. It is likely that alliances like roadkill Red alliance BoB Goonswarm and others with over 1500 players would flat out DOMINATE any serious vote taking through either intmidiation or flat out having more people than the others. This has to be addressed before this vote can take place. I completely agree with most of that (i'm kakshi by the way, my default character setting was messed up), which is why i suggested that the alliances specifically be barred from having representatives. The logistics of sending THAT many people to iceland on a regular basis MUST be considered. 9 is a good number. they should all be duly elected representatives of the player base, NOT of the alliances.
FarScape III	Posted - 2007.06.08 06:43:00 - [380] Edited by: FarScape III on 08/06/2007 06:43:57 Originally by: Kuseka Adama Originally by: Hitake Kakshi Originally by: Kuseka Adama On a more serious note i would suggest that if this actually happens that each alliance get ONE rep. Period end of story. Alliance leadership gets to choose who. If there is any intimidation on by any alliance to another that alliance loses its slot in this potential group for a period of no less than three months. Now are you talking one alliance rep in ADDITION to the 9 chosen, or are you suggesting that they be part of the 9 chosen?..i mean how many alliances are there? that's a pretty tall order. No flat out remove the nine chosen and give every alliance one voice. Otherwise its going to be exactly as predicted by others goonswarm and bob and all the other massive alliances will have their own slots and none of the lesser alliances/single corps will have a say at all. There is a significant problem with what is being requested here the: fact that so many are consolidated. It is likely that alliances like roadkill Red alliance BoB Goonswarm and others with over 1500 players would flat out DOMINATE any serious vote taking through either intmidiation or flat out having more people than the others. This has to be addressed before this vote can take place. good points, reminds me of how they elect those people that are on that one thing that over sees the earth. What are they called? hold on going to google........ Nope can find it that way going to Wikipedia.. Got it! United Nations A Minmater City... Cool! My Stats :)

Kuseka Adama Gallente WOLFPACK DELTA	Posted - 2007.06.08 06:47:00 - [381] Originally by: Seth Enkar I completely agree with most of that (i'm kakshi by the way, my default character setting was messed up), which is why i suggested that the alliances specifically be barred from having representatives. The logistics of sending THAT many people to iceland on a regular basis MUST be considered. 9 is a good number. they should all be duly elected representatives of the player base, NOT of the alliances. I cant agree completely. The alliances have players too. The fact is we are looking at forming one ourselves. Nothing is set in stone yet but we would then be among the 'not allowed' even if we are small. The problem i have with this is making sure everyone is fairly elected. I would set it up like this: 4 reps MUST come from non aligned corps: (THEY COULD NOT BE NPC CORPS) 4 reps MUST come from alliances. Two codicils You must of been part of a non aligned corp for...call it 6 months before the vote is called. THE CORP MUST ALSO OF BEEN NON ALIGNED FOR THAT AMOUNT OF TIME! (this refers to nominations) The same would work for alliances. Everyone could vote but not everyone could be nominated. But each faction would then vote for its own candidates Bob would be excluded from nominations for VERY obvious reasons. Though they should be allowed to vote The same circumstances could well apply to goon swarm or any alliance above 2500 really. This then leaves a voting base (based on numbers) that honestly could be swayed. the 9th and final slot i would put up to a FULL voting of the eve playerbase. About the best way you could do it imo.
Kuseka Adama Gallente WOLFPACK DELTA	Posted - 2007.06.08 06:48:00 - [382] Originally by: FarScape III Edited by: FarScape III on 08/06/2007 06:45:48 Edited by: FarScape III on 08/06/2007 06:43:57 Originally by: Kuseka Adama Originally by: Hitake Kakshi Originally by: Kuseka Adama On a more serious note i would suggest that if this actually happens that each alliance get ONE rep. Period end of story. Alliance leadership gets to choose who. If there is any intimidation on by any alliance to another that alliance loses its slot in this potential group for a period of no less than three months. Now are you talking one alliance rep in ADDITION to the 9 chosen, or are you suggesting that they be part of the 9 chosen?..i mean how many alliances are there? that's a pretty tall order. No flat out remove the nine chosen and give every alliance one voice. Otherwise its going to be exactly as predicted by others goonswarm and bob and all the other massive alliances will have their own slots and none of the lesser alliances/single corps will have a say at all. There is a significant problem with what is being requested here the: fact that so many are consolidated. It is likely that alliances like roadkill Red alliance BoB Goonswarm and others with over 1500 players would flat out DOMINATE any serious vote taking through either intmidiation or flat out having more people than the others. This has to be addressed before this vote can take place. good points, reminds me of how they elect those people that are on that one thing that over sees the earth. What are they called? hold on going to google........ Nope can't find it that way going to Wikipedia.. Got it! United Nations So yeah, that is ok, maybe CCP will do something like that, I bet there will be a huge debate. I must admit you have me there and i am no friend of the U.N. But i am more concerned with rigged results than i am with the potential chaos of my original idea. This has to be as clean as an operating room and as fair as king solomon an EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TASK even in the best circumstances.
Max Godsnottlingson Amarr Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.06.08 07:00:00 - [383] No matter if you agree with this idea or not, it strikes me that this is either a very brave idea, or very stupid idea on the part of CCP. If it is implemented, but then not seen by the majority of the player base to be 100% above board and honest it will simply feed the fires started by the conspiracy theorists and could even hurt Eve badly if it convinces enough players that it is just a sham used by CCP as a cover for underhand practices. Don't get me wrong. I personnaly think it's a brilliant idea, but one that poses a lot of dangers, and would hate to see people leaving in droves beacuse it wasn't implemented right and it's all blown up in CCP's face
Max Godsnottlingson Amarr Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.06.08 07:04:00 - [384] Originally by: Kuseka Adama On a more serious note i would suggest that if this actually happens that each alliance get ONE rep. Period end of story. Alliance leadership gets to choose who. If there is any intimidation on by any alliance to another that alliance loses its slot in this potential group for a period of no less than three months. Not a bad idea, but how would you ensure that all the players who are not in an alliance, or in an allaince deemed too small to be worthy of having a rep gets clear reprosentation? The one group that is probably still the largest group by far too
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.06.08 07:07:00 - [385] sirmolles ego must be growing by the day
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc	Posted - 2007.06.08 07:14:00 - [386] Originally by: Taikun Brunel Originally by: Phoebus Athenian Applauds Yes, you've done it! Transparency is the way, and... wow I'm amazed that you're actually listening to your community. Two thumbs up... I'm looking forward to hearing from this democratic effort. See above for definition of a kool-aid drinker. Someone got out of the bed on wrong side of the bed? both you posts have been cynical looks like you will never be satisfied, if you dont like it here stf off!! CCP I was honestly pleasantly suprised by this article, I hope this is a sincere gesture from CCP and that it improves CCP's image, btw nice free advertising in the New york times. Originally by: Rawne Karrde PVP in EvE is consentual, you agree to it when you login. If you don't like it you're in the wrong game.
Sartaron Amarr Quantar Swords SynchronizerZ	Posted - 2007.06.08 07:20:00 - [387] RL persons should be elected. Not "Characters". It is about auditing a company and its processes. Customers elect auditors.
Seth Enkar Gallente High Guard Argosy	Posted - 2007.06.08 07:25:00 - [388] Originally by: Kuseka Adama Originally by: Seth Enkar I completely agree with most of that (i'm kakshi by the way, my default character setting was messed up), which is why i suggested that the alliances specifically be barred from having representatives. The logistics of sending THAT many people to iceland on a regular basis MUST be considered. 9 is a good number. they should all be duly elected representatives of the player base, NOT of the alliances. I cant agree completely. The alliances have players too. The fact is we are looking at forming one ourselves. Nothing is set in stone yet but we would then be among the 'not allowed' even if we are small. The problem i have with this is making sure everyone is fairly elected. I would set it up like this: 4 reps MUST come from non aligned corps: (THEY COULD NOT BE NPC CORPS) 4 reps MUST come from alliances. Two codicils You must of been part of a non aligned corp for...call it 6 months before the vote is called. THE CORP MUST ALSO OF BEEN NON ALIGNED FOR THAT AMOUNT OF TIME! (this refers to nominations) The same would work for alliances. Everyone could vote but not everyone could be nominated. But each faction would then vote for its own candidates Bob would be excluded from nominations for VERY obvious reasons. Though they should be allowed to vote The same circumstances could well apply to goon swarm or any alliance above 2500 really. This then leaves a voting base (based on numbers) that honestly could be swayed. the 9th and final slot i would put up to a FULL voting of the eve playerbase. About the best way you could do it imo. I just can't think of a way of making it fair that DOESN'T involve excluding alliances. I mean, think about it... The problem with your system is that it can be abused. Alliance gets someone outside of it's ranks to run, then it tells all it's people to vote for that person. That gives their candidate of choice an unfair advantage over the others. There are hundreds of thousands of players of EVE Online, Of those hundreds of thousands, maybe only half would be good for a spot on this oversight committee...that means that you've got to pick 9 people from a pool of a hundred thousand or so... It just gives regular players who would be really good for the job less chance of actually getting it.
Seth Enkar Gallente High Guard Argosy	Posted - 2007.06.08 07:27:00 - [389] Originally by: Sartaron RL persons should be elected. Not "Characters". It is about auditing a company and its processes. Customers elect auditors. In the end, that's what's going on here. Real people being elected to audit a real company staffed by other real people. This isn't a game mechanic man, this is a serious thing.
Taikun Brunel Gallente Evolved Gamer Zzz	Posted - 2007.06.08 07:33:00 - [390] Originally by: Sinder Ohm Originally by: Taikun Brunel See above for definition of a kool-aid drinker. Someone got out of the bed on wrong side of the bed? both you posts have been cynical looks like you will never be satisfied, if you dont like it here stf off!! So voices of disagreement are not welcome here. To that I say you can take your own advice. I believe some over eager marking intern got on the blower with another intern at the NY Times with a 'we talked about this over lunch' story. CCP will implement this at their own peril. Just remember it is US who pay each month who is going to pay for 9 losers in these forums for free trips to Iceland a few times a year. I would prefer they funneled that cash into fixing long outstanding issues with the game rather than junkets for suckups. Don't like my point of view Sinder Ohm? Mlow be.



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