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Story in the New York Times.

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Judas Lonestar Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:24:00 - [241] Originally by: Neslo Originally by: Judas Lonestar Originally by: Susan Acid Originally by: Judas Lonestar Remember Enron? Remember Worldcom? Those 2 damn near covered it all up, and the problems CCP has are a drop in the bucket compared to that. Please,get a grip. So your telling me it would be impssible for CCP to get rid of all evidence of any scandals or cheating before the committee got there?? Get a grip indeed. You HONESTLY think CCP would knowingly let this audit committee find information proving they had dishonest actions? Hell, they might as well turn off the servers now if thats the case. If the audit team did find evidence of cheating can you even begin to imagine how damagingf that would be? get a grip indeed. What's more damaging: A) The Truth B) or what people thing is the Truth? Because look what happened when they didn't find anything. Everyone said "I can'trust them, because it was done all in house." So the challenge to them was "open your doors and we will believe you" and so now that they have, the next critism is going to be Coverup? Seriously buy this man a Tin Foil Hat.... the aliens are coming to get him. HAHA. Yep, cause CCP will let documented proof of cheating to help BOB come to light. Riiiiight. Keep pouring the Koolaid, theres lots here drinkin.
CyberChick Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:25:00 - [242] I hope that this oversight committee is made up of non alliance/major alliance players, at least this way there can be no calls of foul play... Maybe if players wish to change from non alliance/major alliance play style they could advise ccp to search for a replacement
suza Prison Break Inc. FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:30:00 - [243] Having read the news article I am so pleased that they have put my mind at rest that there is no favouritism from CCP to any one allience.. See they even got quotes from a good and broud player base, I mean they would not have used only two BoB players Hmmmmmmmmm. - Fly Hard, Fly fast for tomorrow is another day for Killing!
Maxpie Cross Roads	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:35:00 - [244] Nice idea. I nominate - me! I can't wait to have the conversation with my wife, it will probably be something like, "Honey, I have to go to Iceland for a while." "Why?" she asks. "Well, you know that game I constantly play, you know, the one that you get angry at me for spending too much time with. Well, they want some of the players to fly to Iceland and make sure they are doing everything properly and I volunteered." "Honey, what are you doing?" "Honey, put down the knife..." He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things.
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:36:00 - [245] Funny, I have always figured that while folks at CCP may have bent and broken the rules (Shattered them in T20Æs case) that CCP as a company was not at faultà at least not at fault for the cheating. I thought the steps they had taken when the T20 thing came to light were a good start, perhaps late, but a good startà Then I see this article praising CCP and Eve in the New York Timesà a NEWS Paper that buried a plot to blowup part of the city and the biggest Airport in the area (JFK International Airport) even with all the proof and arrests, on page 37à a Paper that Praises the prosecution of one person for lying under oath by a prosecutor that knew early on that there was no crime but went on a witch hunt, yet berated the prosecution of another man who knowingly lied to a grand jury in a real caseà to say the NYT is biased is an understatementà But as I read the article I realized that the NYT had no real idea how Eve works, had they, the article would have been vastly differentà like ôEmpire Space is Safeöà and no mention of the Pure Capitalism that is the Eve Market place. At the heart of the story is another attempt by CCP (Whom, as I said above, I have never held at fault in any of this) to try to allay the conspiracy fearsà 9 players, voted on by the playersà a great idea in theory, but god forbid some group is represented, not represented, over representedà so much for any credibilityà will be given accessà how much access? Will it be enough?? What was hidden??? Will they know what they are looking at, looking for???? More then 20 years ago now I had a problem with a bankà I lost several hundred dollars from my checking account via ATMÆsà my book keeping at the time was sloppy, but not that sloppyà but I had no proofà so for 2 months, every time I needed money from the ATM, I took out the same amountà $40.00à if I needed more, I went several times and took out $40.00 at a timeà I saved the slips, kept good notes on the time and datesà really cleaned up my book keepingà and in the middle of the second month, there was a withdrawal for $60.00à I took my slips, my statements and my notes to the bank, a week later they sent me a 1.5 inch by 3 inch slip of paper with some codes on it and said ôSee, proof you withdrew the moneyöà it was proof for them, but meant nothing to meà I changed banks and never had the problem again. While I think this ôPlayer Committeeö sounds all well and good, I fear it will do more to fuel the fire, then to dowse the flamesà but I wish you luck in finding folks that are knowledgeable enough to be able to audit you, non-biased enough to be creditable and willing to put their names and credentials on the lineà because anything less will be a waste of time and money. None of us is as dumb as all of us...
Ridley Tree The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:37:00 - [246] Originally by: NY Times in favor of a mighty alliance of players called Band of Brothers. And the BoB epeen has now reached epic proportions. Good work guys, you've made the big time! ---- The Ridley Tree Productions Vault of Videos
Red Rumurder 5punkorp Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:38:00 - [247] Originally by: Yurii Chan NYT is #1 American paper imo. hehe that made me laugh i like the idea CCP keep up the good work
VinceNoir Amarr Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:41:00 - [248] Ylarbo Janks tbh, his report back would lay waste to all who tried to compete. Originally by: "Shanda Captison" Vince, you can't even spell ECM m8
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:43:00 - [249] I still say it's far far faaaaaar to early to judge whether this is an awesome or awful idea. Tons of details still have to be hammered out, about how people are selected and elected. The vote blob issue is a big one, in my opinion. Also, what powers do they have as this committee? Say they DO find something, then what? They get to write the press release? Spank the offending developer? Or just get the right to have their arm-waving posts about it stickied on the forum? Personally I think it's an interesting concept and I'm looking forward to hearing more about what CCP has planned for it. But for the naysayers, put away your tinfoil hats until some real concrete details emerge. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Ammoina University of Caille	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:48:00 - [250] Don't know if I like this solution or hate it. But it will lend CCP some serious legitimacy in the eyes of 90% of the player population.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:55:00 - [251] Of course, the "oversight comitee" would have to be made up of players that have been playing longer as, say one year, and have never been part of any major alliance, nor interacted seriously with any major alliance. CAREBEAR POWER ! _ New char creation guide \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:58:00 - [252] Send 9 BoB members over there... Sorry, I had to. --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:04:00 - [253] Originally by: illusha Damn that liberal bias! I thought it was a well written article and very funny in some areas. Quote: So now, in a sociological twist, the company that makes Eve, CCP, based in Iceland (population 300,000), says it will tackle the problem the way a democracy would. In what appears to be a first, the company plans to hold elections so that players can select members of an oversight committee. Quote: The company will then fly those players to Iceland regularly so they can audit CCPÆs operations and report back to their player-constituents. And taking cues from transitions to democracy in the developing world, CCP says it will call in election monitors from universities in Europe and the United States. Are you serious? I haven't heard CCP anounce this yet and this is really stupid. What kind of a professional and legit company lets non-employees audit them and look at the details of their operation? None that I can think of. Yes, they may hire an outside firm to do it, but they are professionals, not regular people that play a spacecraft game and take it too seriously. Why would you pay a lot of money to fly non-employees to do something you obviously don't want them to do? This won't save your credibility. Are you going to pay the people of these committee for their working hours lost? How would they explain this to their boss, "sorry boss but I need to go to Iceland for a couple of weeks to tell some idiots how to run a game" "Are you serious? you're FIRED" Your lack of intelligence once again surprises me CCP, good job again! I'm sorry if you are to, but I personnaly don't have to explain my boss what I am doing in vacations. "Sorry Boss, I have to go to South of France for a little sunbath, drinking wine with lovely ladies.". Well, no. It's private. Nobody should know, or have to know. It's a good thing. CCP must do that by players because we are the customers. No 3rd compagny audit could be satisfying enough to the players. Imagine you read that : "WhateverCorpYouDon'TKnowTheName said CCP is clean." Would you thrust them ? And now : say a big big thrusted compagny like this exists. #1 Rolls Royce of IBM of the NASA. Do you really think they will charge less than CCP having to actually pay for 9 plane tickets ? I think the NASA will come with 452526 people, charging 452526 plane tickets + isk/h employees (free for any player) + whatever charges (a few beers for the players would be enough) + benefits. Now our benefits would be player-made opinion. It's nice. the only wrong thing is we'll see "pick me, pick me, I'll do a great job" and actually just applying for the free plane ticket. :/ ----- History is made by whinners Originally by: DB Preacher (...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:04:00 - [254] Those elected people will become powerfull = more bribes and dirty tricks. Horrible idea! CCP just needs to employ some strict guy that doesnt have any type of human emotions. A being that cant be reasoned with, cant be stopped, and will never backdown. CCP should just hire a librarian. -------------------- '\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/' Cant we all just get along?
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:06:00 - [255] Originally by: Neslo What's more damaging: A) The Truth B) or what people thing is the Truth? For me, it's B. ----- History is made by whinners Originally by: DB Preacher (...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:10:00 - [256] Originally by: Ridley Tree Originally by: NY Times in favor of a mighty alliance of players called Band of Brothers. And the BoB epeen has now reached epic proportions. Good work guys, you've made the big time! Well, Bob is strong, etc. Can't you agree with this ? ----- History is made by whinners Originally by: DB Preacher (...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:10:00 - [257] Originally by: Godar Marak CCP just needs to employ some strict guy that doesnt have any type of human emotions. A being that cant be reasoned with, cant be stopped, and will never backdown. Donald Rumsfeld probably wouldn't like Iceland. erm...GOONSWARM IS EBIL.
TWAIN GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:14:00 - [258] Edited by: TWAIN on 07/06/2007 18:20:42 Edited by: TWAIN on 07/06/2007 18:16:53 I really want this to be more than a popularity contest, or a cheap publicity stunt, but honestly how could it be? I really applaud CCP for making the effort in this, and it's a fine idea on paper, but somehow I doubt this will actually work as intended. They need to hire a professional, third-party, external auditor, who can be directly contacted by the playerbase to voice our concerns. Any member of this community who has any high degree of knowledge of this game's mechanics, politics, or community would inevitably draw public concern as to their agenda. That's essentialy everybody who would ever be nominated, or seek nomination. Nobody could be, or would be, above reproach. Issues of how long they should hold office really don't apply, since everybody will be seen as equally culpable. Anybody willing to do this better be prepared to have their name dragged through the mud, humiliated, and then stomped on repeatedly. Further, there's really no way to encapsulate the concerns of this diverse a community with a single delegation. The idea circulating about the top 9 alliances getting a single delegate each? Preposterous. What about the other 75% of the players in 0.1+ space? The non-vocal majority of casual players who don't read the forums? Or how about the roleplayers? They have a stake in involvement regardless of their corps, considering a number of past incidents has involved them. And this should certainly not be something only so-called vets or community pillars should be allowed to particpate in, as somebody who started in the last six months would have just as many concerns that warrant addressing. And, heaven forbid, what could possibly be done to prevent the committee itself from being corrupted, bought off, or otherwise become a perversion of itself? And really now, how many people around here can code in Python, let alone the (admittedly) giberish extensions they've made to it? Hell, how many people in the world? How many people in this community would have technical expertise to interpret their database, but not be in a position that would warrant concern over their access or knowledge of it at the end of the day? At least an external auditor would have the resources to hire independent programming experts to verify/disprove customer concerns. There are literally thousands of companies who have people like this on staff already, so it begs the real question: If they're serious about true transparency, why aren't they taking serious steps to ensure it? More direct involvement in CCPs affairs by the playerbase (and vice versa) is exactly what this situation does not need. With concerns raised from recruiting ISDs, GMs, and devs right out of the (still active) playerbase, what on earth makes anyone think the committee will be any less scutinized in their actions? Where would it end -- an internal affairs program for the committee itself? That would just end up with more redirected blame and community drama. Nobody here wants that.
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:15:00 - [259] Originally by: Godar Marak Those elected people will become powerfull = more bribes and dirty tricks. Horrible idea! CCP just needs to employ some strict guy that doesnt have any type of human emotions. A being that cant be reasoned with, cant be stopped, and will never backdown. CCP should just hire a librarian. Are you a librarian ? These 9 people HAVE TO represent Eve player base. So I guess we will see just say, 2 Bob/Alliance guy, 2 Coalition guys, 3 not aligned 0.0 guy and rest of Empire. ----- History is made by whinners Originally by: DB Preacher (...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
Buxaroo Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:17:00 - [260] Originally by: Kraven Kor God it makes me sad to see you with that Corp Tag, Bux-bux :( Awww Kraven, I am still the luvable motormouth you remember me as. I wish I could convince you about BoB not being this ebil cheating juggernaut. I wouldn't be with them if I thought otherwise. Everyone knows my staunch dislike for script kiddies in CS, let alone an important game like this. But having said that, come to the darkside Kraven "No matter where you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:20:00 - [261] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Originally by: Godar Marak Those elected people will become powerfull = more bribes and dirty tricks. Horrible idea! CCP just needs to employ some strict guy that doesnt have any type of human emotions. A being that cant be reasoned with, cant be stopped, and will never backdown. CCP should just hire a librarian. Are you a librarian ? These 9 people HAVE TO represent Eve player base. So I guess we will see just say, 2 Bob/Alliance guy, 2 Coalition guys, 3 not aligned 0.0 guy and rest of Empire. ...I think they would kill each other on the plane. erm...GOONSWARM IS EBIL.
Buxaroo Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:21:00 - [262] Originally by: Ridley Tree Originally by: NY Times in favor of a mighty alliance of players called Band of Brothers. And the BoB epeen has now reached epic proportions. Good work guys, you've made the big time! /me gets tape measure out Muwhahahahah! Muwhahahahaha! Muwhahahahahah! "No matter where you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai
Lady Branwen Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:25:00 - [263] Edited by: Lady Branwen on 07/06/2007 18:24:45 CCP if your really serious about this, and it's not something some pecker head dreampt up on MSN, then you need to hire a firm of Pro's who know how to do this sort of thing, not take a bunch of numpties who, as someone said "take an internet spaceship game far to seriously" and who i might add know sod all about auditing their toe nails, let alone a large company. Let a pro company do the job properly
Tennessee Jack	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:25:00 - [264] You are going to bring 9 people.. who have no clue on Eve Online's programming.. No expertise on how to be an auditor as a method of bringing trust into a community? Why? How does this comfort.. or FIX anything. You broke the economy and unbalanced the game... YOU broke it.. and you haven't bothered to fix it. And now you think shipping 9 people over for a week to do "oversight" will make everything better? If you believe that's true... you should stick your buddy in a doorway and slam the door shut. Why don't you Buy a Monkey and say that HE SAID that the Dev's are legit. There is no way a bunch of Popular Community people can recognize fraud, see illegal incidents, find where and why CCP went wrong. These people are not trained in such methodologies, have no expertise in this area.. nor know what the heck they are looking at or for. "Inspect every Nook and Cranny?" Do you really believe we all are THAT STUPID? I'm sorry.. but this is a bullsh-- publicity stunt.
MajikKat	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:26:00 - [265] You know as I sit here at work I kinda feel bad for CCP in all this....you see I'm comparing my workplace with CCP. I work in a family owned software company who goes the extra mile to have a strong relationship with customers. I think the bulk of our customers really enjoy the extra attention and support that they don't receive from bigger companies of our similar product line. I figure CCP started as the company that wanted strong ties with the community in Eve. They have the Fanfest where everyone gets to meet and hang out with the developers and people of CCP. Since CCP appear to be fluffy cuddly folks you can't help but fall in love and friendships are forged. I'm going to say that 90% of these friendships are nothing more, but then you have 10% of these friendships that abuse this. Wanting things, Asking things, ....etc. Shame really....
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:29:00 - [266] People hate BoB for the same reason people hate USA. They are too strong and nobody can beat them. If you add a "player oversight process" they will simply accuse the process of being rigged. People accuse primarily to make themselves feel better, it is an ego booster to console themselves for losing.
Del369 Caldari Office linebackers Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:34:00 - [267] Originally by: Cipher7 People hate BoB for the same reason people hate USA. They are too strong and nobody can beat them. If you add a "player oversight process" they will simply accuse the process of being rigged. People accuse primarily to make themselves feel better, it is an ego booster to console themselves for losing. VVV Originally by: zincol Speed Dial ftw
veritas primus	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:37:00 - [268] Originally by: Cipher7 People hate BoB for the same reason people hate USA. They are too strong and nobody can beat them. If you add a "player oversight process" they will simply accuse the process of being rigged. People accuse primarily to make themselves feel better, it is an ego booster to console themselves for losing. Ummm...no ppl hate Bob because they are successful and the vomit this in Eve's face with overwhelming arrogance. Then add in CCP allegations which most entities would keep it on the "down-low" but oh no....they run their mouths in local with MSN garbage, make posts about having strong relationships with Devs, name their ships with [DEVS] in the title, and it goes on...and on...and on...if I were CCP I would have gagged them long ago, and anyone else fueling this junk. But there again....CCP seems to embrace Bob, and Bob embraces back...and you wonder where the community draws their conclussions? LOL...
Judas Lonestar Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:37:00 - [269] Originally by: Buxaroo Originally by: Ridley Tree Originally by: NY Times in favor of a mighty alliance of players called Band of Brothers. And the BoB epeen has now reached epic proportions. Good work guys, you've made the big time! /me gets tape measure out Muwhahahahah! Muwhahahahaha! Muwhahahahahah! If you need another one you can use mine. I never get to use it anyways.
AegriSomnia Caldari Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:41:00 - [270] Originally by: Judas Lonestar Fortunately CCP has had plenty of time to cover any evidence they dont want people to see. And based on some of the posts here most players bought it hook line and sinker. Remember Enron? Remember Worldcom? Those 2 damn near covered it all up, and the problems CCP has are a drop in the bucket compared to that. I can tell you RIGHT NOW how it will end. Committee flies over, committee is given "full" access to already audited logs and files. Committee finds nothing, proclaims CCP to be in the right, everyone is happy. Brilliant move by CCP really. This is more a PR event then any proof their on the up and up. I didnt get the impression that this was a one time occourance. I thought it sounded like there would be, at least, annual reviews, maybe even semi-annual. But for Christs Sake man, this is a game. Enron and Worldcom ruined peoples REAL LIVES. I personally suffered from Enron, being a resident of California. Rolling blackouts are NOT COOL! Everyday, entire cities would lose power for hours, and that included stoplights! CA. trafiic was bad enough without that clusterfck. Imagine being at work or school and having everything power down for the rest of the day. I lost a lot of work because of it. BRAVO, CCP. We look forward to many positive and enjoyable years playing your wonderful game. And if you think its fed beyond fixing, why not just leave? Originally by: grayson 34 Thank you for yall's advice, and a special thanks to AegriSomnia for reminding me that there are still ***holes in the world.

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