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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Smith
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.11 10:19:00 -
[211]
LOL. Next it will be an exploit for anyone in BOB to NPC!
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.11 10:27:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Xedrik I am pretty sure CCP knows about this. I mean, they must be monitoring the market for bugs etc. and if this was to be considered a bug (enough people complaining about it, perhaps?) then it would have been flagged ages ago.
So, BoB goes hand in hand with the devs again? In regard to the past, this wouldn't surprise me one bit, since it's a great way of contributing a lot of ISK to your "favorite" alliance. And to boot, this would be insanely hard to trace back to one of the devs since it's "only" shared information about market price that any player could have found out.
Just speculations; nothing more, nothing less.
I guess that since the T20-incident the devs will always be guilty until proven otherwise. I'm happily waiting for that day when ordinary players will monitor employee activities, because that's the only way I will be able to regain trust.
This trade route existed before Band of Brothers even existed. How in the world is this "BoB going hand in hand with the devs"?
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Xedrik
Amarr Supernova Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.11 10:27:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Smith LOL. Next it will be an exploit for anyone in BOB to NPC!
Exploit or not. But this is seriously undermining the economy for the rest. No one without a titan (or jump bridge of sorts) are able to make that amount of ISK in such a short time (and low risk). And because you guys own most of the titans it gives you an unfair advantage over the rest. Sure, we shouldn't blame you for that, you've invested a lot of time and ISK in those titans, but 2.2bil ISK a day for not even one hour of work, and nearly totally risk free to boot. That's seriously unbalanced and shouldn't be possible.
--- "Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war." |
Aeon Yakati
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.11 10:30:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Cringeley Complexes can be contested pretty easily. A good complex running group will be able to fight off their opposition, but any time another group can come along and challenge them.
I wanna see you try and take the 10/10 AAA complex for instance, or any other camped complex with alliance backing. You may succeed the first try, even the next day, but on day 3 you'll have a log on trap waiting for you. Apart from the front line plexes, the vast majority is not seriously contested.
Quote: This trade route can only be challenged by other people with titans
Feel free to contest it using transporters, or even freightering through all of empire by jump gate, but you'll soon come to realize that what seems to be the best traderoute in game on first sight, turns out to be one of the worst in terms of profits / jump and profits / man.
Quote: It is, as others have said, a relatively safe and effortless way for the rich to get richer at a ridiculous rate.
Effortless way? Do you seriously consider over 30 manhours a week any more effortless than doing the 10/10 plex a couple hours a week for even higher profits? Even after revelations 1.2 you'll still be able to do those plexes twice a day using a few scanning alts.
The relatively safe side of the trade route is due to be nerfed in the upcoming 1.2 expansion next month, making the route no longer worth the trouble. That will also kill off the entire route whatsoever, rendering Plutonium a useless tradegood. It is plain unrealistic to expect 20 people escorting a freighter across 3 0.0 regions and whole empire for a measly 2 billion profit.
You can't realistically claim this is an effortless way to make money compared to other activities, and the profit being generated is ridiculous.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.11 10:31:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Xedrik
Originally by: Smith LOL. Next it will be an exploit for anyone in BOB to NPC!
Exploit or not. But this is seriously undermining the economy for the rest. No one without a titan (or jump bridge of sorts) are able to make that amount of ISK in such a short time (and low risk).
Sure they can. Heard of Red Alliance? They've been doing it for well over a year, in vastly greater scale, with 10/10 complexes. Each one earns them 2 billion ISK a day with near-zero risk.
But clearly BoB are the bad guys and nobody else could possibly be doing anything wrong.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Xedrik
Amarr Supernova Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.11 10:34:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Dark Shikari This trade route existed before Band of Brothers even existed. How in the world is this "BoB going hand in hand with the devs"?
As I said, it's only speculations, and I use it as a figure of speech. And even if the trade route existed before BoB, there were no titans. Thus, not many using it since it would be a hell of a risk to transport it conventionally, it would also take a lot more time.
What I mean is, the devs haven't closed down the trade route, because it haven't got negative attention until now. That's what I mean when I say they are walking hand in hand, since the devs would surely know about this but haven't done anything about it. Again, this is JUST speculations and should be taken lightly.
--- "Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war." |
Xedrik
Amarr Supernova Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.11 10:42:00 -
[217]
Edited by: Xedrik on 11/06/2007 10:41:43
Originally by: Dark Shikari Sure they can. Heard of Red Alliance? They've been doing it for well over a year, in vastly greater scale, with 10/10 complexes. Each one earns them 2 billion ISK a day with near-zero risk.
But clearly BoB are the bad guys and nobody else could possibly be doing anything wrong.
Jeeze. I never said that BoB are the bad guys, neither did I say that they were the only ones making that kind of cash, I was merely talking about trade route in question (to keep things on topic?!).
And 10/10 complexes is a totally different matter. You have to have a serious operation with many pilots involved. Of course it helps out that you have a huge alliance that covers your back, but that only makes it safe from any intruders to interrupt your plexing. It will still take a lot more time to run through a 10/10 plex then to jump a titan with three freighters, so it's not comparable. In a 10/10 you put an effort in to make the cash, with this titan trade jumping, you don't (or at least not nearly enough).
Stop being so aggressive, I haven't offended you in anyway.
Edit: Fixed some stupid spelling mistakes.
--- "Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war." |
Aeon Yakati
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.11 10:43:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Xedrik I am pretty sure CCP knows about this. I mean, they must be monitoring the market for bugs etc. and if this was to be considered a bug (enough people complaining about it, perhaps?) then it would have been flagged ages ago.
So, BoB goes hand in hand with the devs again? In regard to the past, this wouldn't surprise me one bit, since it's a great way of contributing a lot of ISK to your "favorite" alliance. And to boot, this would be insanely hard to trace back to one of the devs since it's "only" shared information about market price that any player could have found out
You are making yourself so ridiculous, you don't even know and write a wall of text of wrong accusations. I found out about this possible trade route over a year ago and did not tell anyone in BoB until after I joined months later.
I guess that makes me a dev now
Feeling stupid?
Originally by: Xedrik Exploit or not. But this is seriously undermining the economy for the rest....but 2.2bil ISK a day for not even one hour of work, and nearly totally risk free to boot. That's seriously unbalanced and shouldn't be possible.
Please, stop the poor attempt at reigniting the mob's flaming. You have clearly not read any replies prior to page 8. All our arguments have been explained, countered, nullified and thrown back just like the 10 alts that posted before you did. Seriously, you're just spamming with no constructive content.
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Alice Cholmondeley
Christine.
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Posted - 2007.06.11 10:46:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Xedrik
Originally by: Dark Shikari This trade route existed before Band of Brothers even existed. How in the world is this "BoB going hand in hand with the devs"?
As I said, it's only speculations, and I use it as a figure of speech. And even if the trade route existed before BoB, there were no titans. Thus, not many using it since it would be a hell of a risk to transport it conventionally, it would also take a lot more time.
What I mean is, the devs haven't closed down the trade route, because it haven't got negative attention until now. That's what I mean when I say they are walking hand in hand, since the devs would surely know about this but haven't done anything about it. Again, this is JUST speculations and should be taken lightly.
It's funny you accuse people and then say 'take it lightly, it's all speculation'. It becomes pretty transparent what your goals are. |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.11 10:48:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Xedrik Edited by: Xedrik on 11/06/2007 10:41:43
Originally by: Dark Shikari Sure they can. Heard of Red Alliance? They've been doing it for well over a year, in vastly greater scale, with 10/10 complexes. Each one earns them 2 billion ISK a day with near-zero risk.
But clearly BoB are the bad guys and nobody else could possibly be doing anything wrong.
Jeeze. I never said that BoB are the bad guys, neither did I say that they were the only ones making that kind of cash, I was merely talking about trade route in question (to keep things on topic?!).
And 10/10 complexes is a totally different matter. You have to have a serious operation with many pilots involved. Of course it helps out that you have a huge alliance that covers your back, but that only makes it safe from any intruders to interrupt your plexing. It will still take a lot more time to run through a 10/10 plex then to jump a titan with three freighters, so it's not comparable. In a 10/10 you put an effort in to make the cash, with this titan trade jumping, you don't (or at least not nearly enough).
You can do a 10/10 with two characters. Three if you want to do it decently fast. You strongly underestimate RA's expertise at running complexes.
And if there's intruders, as RA has proven, you just log off.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
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Xedrik
Amarr Supernova Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.11 10:59:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Aeon Yakati You are making yourself so ridiculous, you don't even know and write a wall of text of wrong accusations. I found out about this possible trade route over a year ago and did not tell anyone in BoB until after I joined months later.
Accusations? I haven't accused anyone for anything. I was JUST speculating for a reason as to why this is being allowed by CCP. Nothing more. And it's not about the trade route, I couldn't care less. It's about how it's executed.
Originally by: Aeon Yakati Please, stop the poor attempt at reigniting the mob's flaming. You have clearly not read any replies prior to page 8. All our arguments have been explained, countered, nullified and thrown back just like the 10 alts that posted before you did. Seriously, you're just spamming with no constructive content.
Nope, I haven't read all the replies. I just wanted to reply to the topic, and share my thoughts. And I don't care about your arguments, you don't have to defend yourself (if you aren't a dev that is hehe). I only really care about why CCP is allowing this kind of trades, and one reason could be they are going hand in hand with BoB, but that's just pure speculation based on the past, and it's NOT an accusation (since it's the devs that would be doing the wrongdoings, not BoB).
And for your information, what I'm writing could never be considered spam. Read up on that word and you'll learn why. How could I ever respect your opinion if you don't know what you are talking about?
--- "Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war." |
Xedrik
Amarr Supernova Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.11 11:08:00 -
[222]
Edited by: Xedrik on 11/06/2007 11:06:59
Originally by: Dark Shikari You can do a 10/10 with two characters. Three if you want to do it decently fast. You strongly underestimate RA's expertise at running complexes.
And if there's intruders, as RA has proven, you just log off.
Okey, we could start a new whine thread about 10/10 plexes being too easy? =)
Honestly, what has this to do with anything? Just because 10/10 plexes gives you billions in return, it's not comparable to this trade issue. Why are you working against me when I'm not your opposition? Maybe you just like to make enemies, what do I know =)
And I'm sure RA are experts...
--- "Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war." |
Aeon Yakati
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.11 11:12:00 -
[223]
You don't read any of the previous pages, link BoB to CCP under the disguise of 'speculations' and then littering/spamming/flooding (choose the word you do understand) the the thread and expect to be taken seriously?
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Xedrik
Amarr Supernova Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.11 11:18:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley It's funny you accuse people and then say 'take it lightly, it's all speculation'. It becomes pretty transparent what your goals are.
Okey, you seem to know more than I know. What are my goals?
--- "Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war." |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.11 11:18:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Xedrik Edited by: Xedrik on 11/06/2007 11:06:59
Originally by: Dark Shikari You can do a 10/10 with two characters. Three if you want to do it decently fast. You strongly underestimate RA's expertise at running complexes.
And if there's intruders, as RA has proven, you just log off.
Okey, we could start a new whine thread about 10/10 plexes being too easy? =)
Honestly, what has this to do with anything? Just because 10/10 plexes gives you billions in return, it's not comparable to this trade issue. Why are you working against me when I'm not your opposition? Maybe you just like to make enemies, what do I know =)
And I'm sure RA are experts...
The whole point of the plex comparison is that since the plexes give similar return with similar effort, they're hardly different from this trade route.
If you want to nerf the trade route, by simple logic, you want to nerf 10/10 complexes, unless you are blatantly biased in favor of one alliance over another.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2007.06.11 11:22:00 -
[226]
Well,, at least this confirms my thoughts that there is reward to the risk of moving trade goods from one low sec region to another.
TBH this isn't an exploit, this is fantastic, and top kudos to those who have secured the route. Improve Market Competition! |
Twoside
Gallente Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.11 11:26:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Dark Shikari [The whole point of the plex comparison is that since the plexes give similar return with similar effort, they're hardly different from this trade route.
If you want to nerf the trade route, by simple logic, you want to nerf 10/10 complexes, unless you are blatantly biased in favor of one alliance over another.
This is the market discussion, the topic is a 'trade route' and it's profitability, not complexes.
Nice try though, especially the 'biased' part. |
Xedrik
Amarr Supernova Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.11 11:31:00 -
[228]
Edited by: Xedrik on 11/06/2007 11:44:09
Originally by: Aeon Yakati You don't read any of the previous pages, link BoB to CCP under the disguise of 'speculations' and then littering/spamming/flooding (choose the word you do understand) the the thread and expect to be taken seriously?
No I didn't link BoB to CCP... I did however link CCP to BoB. Don't blame me for that, blame T20, he's the reason. But hey, that's old news.
I know perfectly well what spam stands for, and it doesn't fit the description of my posts. Sure you can see my posts as utter crap and littter, but you're entitled to your opinion, but guess what, so am I
If you prefer, I can rephrase my previous post from "BoB goes hand in hand with the devs" to "devs holding BoB's hand" (Edit: Already done). If you feel that would make you less of a target.
If you take me seriously or not doesn't matter, I'm not trying to prove you or anyone anything. I was just sharing my thoughts, because that's what you do in a discussion forum. You and everyone else can choose to ignore them if you think it's crap, or choose to discuss them in a friendly matter. Your aggressive approach to my speculations/opinions only fuel my burning fire, if you get what I mean.
And please, can we stay on topic? This is getting out of hand. If you want to discuss my posts or whatever, eve-mail me.
--- "Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war." |
Xedrik
Amarr Supernova Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.11 11:36:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Dark Shikari The whole point of the plex comparison is that since the plexes give similar return with similar effort, they're hardly different from this trade route.
So what you're saying is you can do a 10/10 plex with 2-3 players in under 30 minutes?
Originally by: Dark Shikari If you want to nerf the trade route, by simple logic, you want to nerf 10/10 complexes, unless you are blatantly biased in favor of one alliance over another.
I don't want to nerf the trade route, I want to nerf the method used. Big difference!
And I guess RA are the only ones doing 10/10 plexes...
--- "Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war." |
kliop
Wisdom Seekers
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Posted - 2007.06.11 11:45:00 -
[230]
guys if they do a trade route with plutonium and leave only a small ammount of plutonium on the buy order left...y doesnt someoen just sell it to the npcs to get the price lower? next day the price will be 1 b...next day 200m...etc drop the prices wherever the titan sells:) -------------------------------- HG full snake set auction Check it out for HG snake set..auction ends sunday 17/6 |
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Xedrik
Amarr Supernova Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.11 11:48:00 -
[231]
Originally by: kliop guys if they do a trade route with plutonium and leave only a small ammount of plutonium on the buy order left...y doesnt someoen just sell it to the npcs to get the price lower? next day the price will be 1 b...next day 200m...etc drop the prices wherever the titan sells:)
So you want one of us players to, figuratively speaking, "fix the bug" ? =)
--- "Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war." |
Mayojin
Import Export Ltd.
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Posted - 2007.06.11 11:53:00 -
[232]
can anyone get this thread back to CAOD where it belongs or close it please ?
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kliop
Wisdom Seekers
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Posted - 2007.06.11 11:54:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Xedrik
Originally by: kliop guys if they do a trade route with plutonium and leave only a small ammount of plutonium on the buy order left...y doesnt someoen just sell it to the npcs to get the price lower? next day the price will be 1 b...next day 200m...etc drop the prices wherever the titan sells:)
So you want one of us players to, figuratively speaking, "fix the bug" ? =)
No i want one of u players who find it unjust to actually try to do something about it rather then speak in the forum wars:) bring it ingame! ruin their trade! someone said in this thread trade=pvp -------------------------------- HG full snake set auction Check it out for HG snake set..auction ends sunday 17/6 |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.11 12:00:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Dark Shikari The whole point of the plex comparison is that since the plexes give similar return with similar effort, they're hardly different from this trade route.
If you want to nerf the trade route, by simple logic, you want to nerf 10/10 complexes, unless you are blatantly biased in favor of one alliance over another.
Not really, plexes are a good deal more workintensive. Still pretty good isk of cource. And you are ignoring rev 2.0. There you have to probe for plexes. Which could easily increase the current 2 hours a day to 4-6 if you want to farm it.
Also, one *major* difference here is that plexes only introduce relatively little new isk into the system. Such titan assisted trade routes profit is 100% new isk. Inflation is already a serious problem in eve. We do not need more money printers.
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Xedrik
Amarr Supernova Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.11 12:09:00 -
[235]
Originally by: kliop
Originally by: Xedrik
Originally by: kliop guys if they do a trade route with plutonium and leave only a small ammount of plutonium on the buy order left...y doesnt someoen just sell it to the npcs to get the price lower? next day the price will be 1 b...next day 200m...etc drop the prices wherever the titan sells:)
So you want one of us players to, figuratively speaking, "fix the bug" ? =)
No i want one of u players who find it unjust to actually try to do something about it rather then speak in the forum wars:) bring it ingame! ruin their trade! someone said in this thread trade=pvp
Dude, even if I wanted to, I could never be able to bring down a titan. So me acting in-game won't happen. Anyway, I'm more or less battling the devs, and not the ones conducting the trade (if I knew who they were in-game I might have done something hehe).
--- "Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war." |
kliop
Wisdom Seekers
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Posted - 2007.06.11 12:13:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Xedrik
Originally by: kliop
Originally by: Xedrik
Originally by: kliop guys if they do a trade route with plutonium and leave only a small ammount of plutonium on the buy order left...y doesnt someoen just sell it to the npcs to get the price lower? next day the price will be 1 b...next day 200m...etc drop the prices wherever the titan sells:)
So you want one of us players to, figuratively speaking, "fix the bug" ? =)
No i want one of u players who find it unjust to actually try to do something about it rather then speak in the forum wars:) bring it ingame! ruin their trade! someone said in this thread trade=pvp
Dude, even if I wanted to, I could never be able to bring down a titan. So me acting in-game won't happen. Anyway, I'm more or less battling the devs, and not the ones conducting the trade (if I knew who they were in-game I might have done something hehe).
Dont u see? if they trade by leaving the npc order not filed for a small number of units u can go sell that ammount and after a few times doing that u will not have to worry about that titan! cause the buy price will have fallen enough to not generate that isk -------------------------------- HG full snake set auction Check it out for HG snake set..auction ends sunday 17/6 |
Sales Merchant
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Posted - 2007.06.11 12:13:00 -
[237]
Edited by: Sales Merchant on 11/06/2007 12:17:32
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Moved from CAOD to Market Discussions -Yipsilanti
Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 10/06/2007 02:57:54 Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 10/06/2007 02:55:16 Orange Species was in H-PA (Venal) a few minutes ago, complete with a cloaking titan and multiple freighters. After some detective work by my fellow alliance members, it turns out Venal sells plutonium for 11280 isk, and Curse will buy it for 13483 isk, netting a 2203 unit profit.
Curse will buy a million units a day, roughly. Someone has been filling these orders since May first. Everyday. All one million. At 2200 isk a unit, that's 2,200,000,000 a day. Every day. Since May first. 40 days at 2.2b a day is 88b, or almost the component build cost of two titans (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingamebo...74362&page=1#3)
To give you an idea, it would take about 40 minutes to complete the chain from H-PA to whatever station in Curse they are selling the plutonium at.
Constructive comments only please
Welcome to two years ago, northeners have been trading plutonium and planetary vehicles with the Guristas for ages.
Plutonium -> Khanid/Curse/Minmatar Regions Planetary Vehicles -> Venal
Uranium somewhere in between but I forgot.
There you go kids, go make some money.
The only thing that needs a nerf is peoples jelousy.
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Xedrik
Amarr Supernova Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.11 12:30:00 -
[238]
Originally by: kliop Dont u see? if they trade by leaving the npc order not filed for a small number of units u can go sell that ammount and after a few times doing that u will not have to worry about that titan! cause the buy price will have fallen enough to not generate that isk
Yeah I know what you mean. But that's what I think CCP should fix. That's not up to us players =/
--- "Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war." |
Daeva Vios
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Posted - 2007.06.11 12:51:00 -
[239]
Edited by: Daeva Vios on 11/06/2007 12:51:13 This thread's usefulness increases hourly.
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Sadist
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.06.11 12:54:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Sure they can. Heard of Red Alliance? They've been doing it for well over a year, in vastly greater scale, with 10/10 complexes. Each one earns them 2 billion ISK a day with near-zero risk.
But clearly BoB are the bad guys and nobody else could possibly be doing anything wrong.
Near-zero risk? DB preacher begs to differ! тттттттттттт
VIP member of the [23]
Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
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