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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
![Baun Baun](https://images.evetech.net/characters/260200770/portrait?size=64)
Baun
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.06.10 16:32:00 -
[121]
That BoB and their associated asshats are defending this as a legitimate tactic has to be one of the biggest **** takes in EVE history.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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![Dark Shikari Dark Shikari](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1765543329/portrait?size=64)
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.10 16:58:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Baun That BoB and their associated asshats are defending this as a legitimate tactic has to be one of the biggest **** takes in EVE history.
You know how I earned my first billion ISK in just two days?
Two words: transcranial microcontrollers.
And I did it using a Bestower, rather than a convoy of freighters ![Wink](/images/icon_wink.gif)
Did I cheat? Was it an exploit to run 50 hauler runs across empire hauling ultra-high-margin unlisted trade items?
Do you remember Long Limb Roes, when freighter pilots earned 500-900m a day without a titan?
This is hardly different.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
![Ray McCormack Ray McCormack](https://images.evetech.net/characters/270458486/portrait?size=64)
Ray McCormack
BIG
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:17:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Was it an exploit to run 50 hauler runs across empire hauling ultra-high-margin unlisted trade items?
No, but there are associated risks with that.
| Researched Capital Component BPOs Auction | BMBE ISK Loans | |
![ildra ildra](https://images.evetech.net/characters/370849689/portrait?size=64)
ildra
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:22:00 -
[124]
Edited by: ildra on 10/06/2007 17:22:20 If i estimate right you need about 100bn isk investment in liquid cash to actually buy enough to make 2.2bn per day And how many freighters would you need, around 10 ? Oh yeah not counting the titan and the freighters fuel etc makes another 100bn ? clearly, 200bn isk investment should be able to make so much money............
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![FGxHalsey FGxHalsey](https://images.evetech.net/characters/627839749/portrait?size=64)
FGxHalsey
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:30:00 -
[125]
There are 2 specific things wrong with the scenario and none of it is BoB or CCP's fault specifically. The problems here are:
1. Trade routes not adjusting prices. Perhaps Orange Species was correct that they buy just 1 less item than the order is for and that prevents the price adjustment. If this is correct I think it needs a fix as its an obvious way to get around the intended supply/demand trade routes that were implemented.
2. Jump Bridges unbalance certain aspects of the game that even the devs haven't really thought of. Perhaps some limits on what can be jump bridged (freighters) should be implemented.
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![Aeon Yakati Aeon Yakati](https://images.evetech.net/characters/575257713/portrait?size=64)
Aeon Yakati
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:30:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Aeon Yakati on 10/06/2007 17:31:41
Originally by: Plim 2.2 BILLION a day?
That's ******* stupid.
Investment needed: 200 bil +
Profit: 2 bil
That's 1% profit / traderun / day.
Wow, big deal!!!
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![Ray McCormack Ray McCormack](https://images.evetech.net/characters/270458486/portrait?size=64)
Ray McCormack
BIG
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:33:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Aeon Yakati That's 1% profit / traderun.
This has got nothing to do with percentages. It has to do with the volume of ISK made with zero direct risk.
| Researched Capital Component BPOs Auction | BMBE ISK Loans | |
![nirana nirana](https://images.evetech.net/characters/198679688/portrait?size=64)
nirana
Amarr Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:34:00 -
[128]
Sorry but i doubt CCP will change anything just because you whine and have no idea "how too" yourselves![ugh](/images/icon_ugh.gif)
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![nirana nirana](https://images.evetech.net/characters/198679688/portrait?size=64)
nirana
Amarr Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:38:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Aeon Yakati That's 1% profit / traderun.
This has got nothing to do with percentages. It has to do with the volume of ISK made with zero direct risk.
wheres the zero risk you are refering too?
Is it that titans are invulnerable?
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![FGxHalsey FGxHalsey](https://images.evetech.net/characters/627839749/portrait?size=64)
FGxHalsey
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:38:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Baun That BoB and their associated asshats are defending this as a legitimate tactic has to be one of the biggest **** takes in EVE history.
You know how I earned my first billion ISK in just two days?
Two words: transcranial microcontrollers.
And I did it using a Bestower, rather than a convoy of freighters ![Wink](/images/icon_wink.gif)
Did I cheat? Was it an exploit to run 50 hauler runs across empire hauling ultra-high-margin unlisted trade items?
Do you remember Long Limb Roes, when freighter pilots earned 500-900m a day without a titan?
This is hardly different. Should it be changed? Maybe; I supported the nerfing of the Long Limb Roe route, for example.
I'm going to quote this and make a double post just for emphasis. I don't think too many people would have a problem with the freighters or haulers making tons of isk per day as they had to spend alot of time flying through space in order to make that money... even in high sec they were risking their ships.
The jump bridge eliminates the risk and the time required to fly the freighters that far. Lets not forget that just the sheer fact that the only people who can take advantage of supply routes like this are titan owners. This limits the competition so much that it would be rare for the prices on either end to change significantly given the method in which BoB employed to keep the prices the same.
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![Dark Shikari Dark Shikari](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1765543329/portrait?size=64)
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:53:00 -
[131]
Originally by: FGxHalsey I'm going to quote this and make a double post just for emphasis. I don't think too many people would have a problem with the freighters or haulers making tons of isk per day as they had to spend alot of time flying through space in order to make that money... even in high sec they were risking their ships.
The jump bridge eliminates the risk and the time required to fly the freighters that far. Lets not forget that just the sheer fact that the only people who can take advantage of supply routes like this are titan owners. This limits the competition so much that it would be rare for the prices on either end to change significantly given the method in which BoB employed to keep the prices the same.
Jump bridges are quite powerful, I'll give you that.
The problem is not their effectiveness, but their relative invulnerability.
Make it relatively easy to stop a jump bridge in its tracks and kill the freighters, and the jump bridge will be just as effective yet at the same time there will be much more risk involved.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
![Aeon Yakati Aeon Yakati](https://images.evetech.net/characters/575257713/portrait?size=64)
Aeon Yakati
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.10 17:55:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Aeon Yakati That's 1% profit / traderun.
This has got nothing to do with percentages. It has to do with the volume of ISK made with zero direct risk.
Yeah, and how much risk do Hulk producers have? (as someone refered to those)
THen tell me, how much investment do they require?
Why aren't you complaining about that?
Or what about the 1b a day 10/10 complex farmers? 2 hours of work, less than a bil investment. That's 50% return on investment. Why aren't you complaining about that?
Let me guess, we are BoB so you simply have to complain, right? ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif)
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![smallgreenblur smallgreenblur](https://images.evetech.net/characters/146838453/portrait?size=64)
smallgreenblur
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.10 18:01:00 -
[133]
Why does everybody else find ways to make billions of isk a day and I still do it the hard way :(
sgb
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![Baun Baun](https://images.evetech.net/characters/260200770/portrait?size=64)
Baun
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.06.10 18:01:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Aeon Yakati
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Aeon Yakati That's 1% profit / traderun.
This has got nothing to do with percentages. It has to do with the volume of ISK made with zero direct risk.
Yeah, and how much risk do Hulk producers have? (as someone refered to those)
THen tell me, how much investment do they require?
Here is where your nonsense argument flips on its own head. The fact that the investmnet is so enormous is the very reason that absolutely no one can compete with you and its also the reason that this is so ridiculously overpowered.
hulk producers have a number of BPO owners to compete with ANd they have every random inventor to compete with. You have precisely no one to compete with and have stumbled upon a way to circumvent the market balancing and simply PRINT isk.
If you want to try to justify this as some sort of normal or healthy gameplay then you are a ******.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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![smallgreenblur smallgreenblur](https://images.evetech.net/characters/146838453/portrait?size=64)
smallgreenblur
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.10 18:03:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Aeon Yakati
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Aeon Yakati That's 1% profit / traderun.
This has got nothing to do with percentages. It has to do with the volume of ISK made with zero direct risk.
Yeah, and how much risk do Hulk producers have? (as someone refered to those)
THen tell me, how much investment do they require?
Why aren't you complaining about that?
Or what about the 1b a day 10/10 complex farmers? 2 hours of work, less than a bil investment. That's 50% return on investment. Why aren't you complaining about that?
Let me guess, we are BoB so you simply have to complain, right? ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif)
Missed this.
Can't hulk producers get wardecced? Can't complex farmers get probed out in the first stage and killed? / camped in. / blown up by npcs.
Meh I'm neither pro nor anti bob. I'm just tired of people abusing game mechanics every chance they get. Pos-bowling was just lame and another example of why I'm happy in my little corner of 0.0 staying out of the way of the big stuff.
sgb
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![Aeon Yakati Aeon Yakati](https://images.evetech.net/characters/575257713/portrait?size=64)
Aeon Yakati
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.10 18:06:00 -
[136]
Baun, you simply don't get it, do you?
A newbie with 10,000 isk can make 5k isk within an hour.
An experienced player with 100mil isk can make 20mil or whatever.
Someone with 200bil can make 2 bil.
Just that it's a lot to you or even unreacable, doesn't make it unbalanced.
It really aint our problem you cant be bothered to build a titan and thus decide to call it unbalanced.
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![nirana nirana](https://images.evetech.net/characters/198679688/portrait?size=64)
nirana
Amarr Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2007.06.10 18:06:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Baun
Originally by: Aeon Yakati
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Aeon Yakati That's 1% profit / traderun.
This has got nothing to do with percentages. It has to do with the volume of ISK made with zero direct risk.
Yeah, and how much risk do Hulk producers have? (as someone refered to those)
THen tell me, how much investment do they require?
Here is where your nonsense argument flips on its own head. The fact that the investmnet is so enormous is the very reason that absolutely no one can compete with you and its also the reason that this is so ridiculously overpowered.
hulk producers have a number of BPO owners to compete with ANd they have every random inventor to compete with. You have precisely no one to compete with and have stumbled upon a way to circumvent the market balancing and simply PRINT isk.
If you want to try to justify this as some sort of normal or healthy gameplay then you are a ******.
Im pretty sure anyone willing to invest 100bn isk and has a titan can do this, so i dont really see the problem....
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![Ray McCormack Ray McCormack](https://images.evetech.net/characters/270458486/portrait?size=64)
Ray McCormack
BIG
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Posted - 2007.06.10 18:11:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Aeon Yakati
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Aeon Yakati That's 1% profit / traderun.
This has got nothing to do with percentages. It has to do with the volume of ISK made with zero direct risk.
Yeah, and how much risk do Hulk producers have? (as someone refered to those)
THen tell me, how much investment do they require?
Why aren't you complaining about that?
Or what about the 1b a day 10/10 complex farmers? 2 hours of work, less than a bil investment. That's 50% return on investment. Why aren't you complaining about that?
Let me guess, we are BoB so you simply have to complain, right? ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif)
People did complain about Tech II BPO holders, and Invention was added and the lottery reseeded. Complex farmers still have to hold the system and risk their ships. And no, it's not because you're BOB, I'm arguing the fundamentals involved, not the parties.
| Researched Capital Component BPOs Auction | BMBE ISK Loans | |
![Baun Baun](https://images.evetech.net/characters/260200770/portrait?size=64)
Baun
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.06.10 18:12:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Aeon Yakati Baun, you simply don't get it, do you?
A newbie with 10,000 isk can make 5k isk within an hour.
An experienced player with 100mil isk can make 20mil or whatever.
Someone with 200bil can make 2 bil.
Just that it's a lot to you or even unreacable, doesn't make it unbalanced.
It really aint our problem you cant be bothered to build a titan and thus decide to call it unbalanced.
The problem is that the sell and buy order balancing is borked so that the market doesn't balance itself as it should. If it did that then this jump bridging nonsense would not be nearly so much of a problem.
Because you can print isk daily with a simple evasion of the intended mechanics and because no one else can compete with you you can simply PRINT isk. This is completely ridiculous and it is not remotely comparable to anything of a different scale.
If you can risklessly print 10billion isk a day as long as you have 1 trillion isk a day (ill take your scaling in another direction) then you are seriously arguing that its just not the 1trillion isk holder's problem that no one else has 1trillion isk? If you really believe that, then you are delusional in a way that I would have never comprehended. Of course, you don't believe any of the nonsense you are spewing on this thread; you just don't want your isk fountain to be taken from you.
Things like this break EVE even more than it is already broken.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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![Highpriest Aden Highpriest Aden](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1240852217/portrait?size=64)
Highpriest Aden
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Posted - 2007.06.10 18:16:00 -
[140]
2,2 bill in profit. This is a bit wrong IMO. The way I see it, NPC's shouldent have thise large buyorders whatsoever! With this jumpbridge there is no risk whatsoever. OFC there is a cryno, and time for the frighters to dock, but cmon. The risk factor is soo near zero, due to you dont jump 100 billion in plut into a massive bs fleet. you play it safe. People that wanna argue against that, get a grip. a huge alliance like BoB has 100 bill laying around, they can fill 10 frighters and jump it all in 1 go. 10 days after they have made a a net sum of 22 billion from 60 min of work. I dont know, sometimes I get soo fustratet over how unfair things can be ballanced. It's okay that people do this, but now CCP must follow this proplem to the door and close the iskprinting mashine.
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![DroneXXX DroneXXX](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1067624323/portrait?size=64)
DroneXXX
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Posted - 2007.06.10 18:23:00 -
[141]
U gotta love titans All girls love my titan
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![B Glorious B Glorious](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1081434271/portrait?size=64)
B Glorious
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.10 18:26:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Aeon Yakati
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Aeon Yakati That's 1% profit / traderun.
This has got nothing to do with percentages. It has to do with the volume of ISK made with zero direct risk.
Yeah, and how much risk do Hulk producers have? (as someone refered to those)
THen tell me, how much investment do they require?
Why aren't you complaining about that?
Or what about the 1b a day 10/10 complex farmers? 2 hours of work, less than a bil investment. That's 50% return on investment. Why aren't you complaining about that?
Let me guess, we are BoB so you simply have to complain, right? ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif)
The difference is that:
A) Hulks are inventable, and there's man-hours of work associated with continually producing hulks and selling them to players and not being spawned and subsequently gobbled up by NPCs. Making freighters and titans are a one-time deal, with the only continuous costs being isotopes, which obviously isn't prohibitive enough. B) Static complexes are being removed in the very next patch, and yet there have been no news about allowing freighters to move jump bridges whatsoever. C) This trade route isn't functioning properly since the price isn't changing dynamically as the trade route gets used, as it should. D) There is no realistic way to prevent this operation from occurring without a disproportionate amount of force, since the titan itself requires a monstrous force to confront and even then its damn near impossible to actually destroy it, and if the freighters get into trouble they just dock. E) The differences between jump bridging freighters and jump bridging deep space transports or even t1 industrials is that, first, one freighter hauls as much as 33 well-fitted haulers, and second, freighters are designed from the ground up to be utterly helpless, and for them to move around with virtually no risk whatsoever is a broken mechanic.
And don't even start on that pigcrap about "kill it with dreads in the one minute that the jump bridge is active". A dread with two sensor booster IIs in siege mode will take around 30 seconds to lock a titan, and even longer if its a Ragnarok since the sig radius reduction bonus applies to itself. That means that the process to kill it while its jump bridging would be
0 sec: Jump Portal begins 10-20 sec: Dreads arrive and engage siege mode 40-50 sec: Dreads lock and begin firing
Giving you 20-30 seconds to destroy a ship with hitpoints comparable to a small POS. That means one or maybe two-shotting it, which would require between 40 and 100 dreadnoughts.
Yeah, obviously this is not a disproportionate effort at all and anybody who says otherwise is a dumb n00b whiner and nothing else. |
![ildra ildra](https://images.evetech.net/characters/370849689/portrait?size=64)
ildra
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Posted - 2007.06.10 18:30:00 -
[143]
Originally by: B Glorious
Originally by: Aeon Yakati
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Aeon Yakati That's 1% profit / traderun.
This has got nothing to do with percentages. It has to do with the volume of ISK made with zero direct risk.
Yaaada yaaada
so Revelations 2 doesnt apply anything to this thing which the op described in this thread?
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![Aeon Yakati Aeon Yakati](https://images.evetech.net/characters/575257713/portrait?size=64)
Aeon Yakati
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.10 18:33:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Baun The problem is that the sell and buy order balancing is borked so that the market doesn't balance itself as it should. If it did that then this jump bridging nonsense would not be nearly so much of a problem.
There's nothing borked about it. This traderoute has actually been unbugged for ages, unlike the empire counterparts which did reset to the highest/lowest buy/sell orders after downtime no matter the traded quanity. Then about a year ago, they fixed those empire traderuns, making them like the plutonium route, as in, as long as you don't exceed the daily demand/supply, there will be another demand/supply at the same price the next day. Which makes perfect sense. Every day there's a fixed amount of demand at a certain price. They need that quantity every day. If the supply meets the demand, the prices will remain the same the next day. If supply exceeds demand by just 1 unit, the next day's demand price will change, adjusting to the oversupply. This has been the way how it's been in 0.0 since ages, unlike the empire trade which were borked at some point resulting in exploiting.
Simply economics.
Quote: If you really believe that, then you are delusional in a way that I would have never comprehended. Of course, you don't believe any of the nonsense you are spewing on this thread; you just don't want your isk fountain to be taken from you.
How much ISK do the T2 Naal Morno/Kathred/Entity have you reckon? In the trillions. How much ISK do they make daily? In the billions.
If you talk about me being delusional, you must be playing the wrong game.
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![nirana nirana](https://images.evetech.net/characters/198679688/portrait?size=64)
nirana
Amarr Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2007.06.10 18:38:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Aeon Yakati
Originally by: Baun The problem is that the sell and buy order balancing is borked so that the market doesn't balance itself as it should. If it did that then this jump bridging nonsense would not be nearly so much of a problem.
There's nothing borked about it. This traderoute has actually been unbugged for ages, unlike the empire counterparts which did reset to the highest/lowest buy/sell orders after downtime no matter the traded quanity. Then about a year ago, they fixed those empire traderuns, making them like the plutonium route, as in, as long as you don't exceed the daily demand/supply, there will be another demand/supply at the same price the next day. Which makes perfect sense. Every day there's a fixed amount of demand at a certain price. They need that quantity every day. If the supply meets the demand, the prices will remain the same the next day. If supply exceeds demand by just 1 unit, the next day's demand price will change, adjusting to the oversupply. This has been the way how it's been in 0.0 since ages, unlike the empire trade which were borked at some point resulting in exploiting.
Simply economics.
Quote: If you really believe that, then you are delusional in a way that I would have never comprehended. Of course, you don't believe any of the nonsense you are spewing on this thread; you just don't want your isk fountain to be taken from you.
How much ISK do the T2 Naal Morno/Kathred/Entity have you reckon? In the trillions. How much ISK do they make daily? In the billions.
If you talk about me being delusional, you must be playing the wrong game.
And im pretty sure what they do doesnt take half as long as what is done on the route. If you wanna do this route you need to have a guy who can give at least 36hrs a week this is not counting the ppl in the freighters which spends alot more time then 60mins in freighters
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![Aeon Yakati Aeon Yakati](https://images.evetech.net/characters/575257713/portrait?size=64)
Aeon Yakati
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.10 18:42:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Aeon Yakati on 10/06/2007 18:42:04
Originally by: B Glorious A) Hulks are inventable, and there's man-hours of work associated with continually producing hulks and selling them to players and not being spawned and subsequently gobbled up by NPCs. Making freighters and titans are a one-time deal, with the only continuous costs being isotopes, which obviously isn't prohibitive enough.
Yes, it's a lot of work to set up buy orders in Jita, then build them and set up sell orders.
A lot of risk too! </sarcasm>
Quote: B) Static complexes are being removed in the very next patch, and yet there have been no news about allowing freighters to move jump bridges whatsoever.
See reply to D.
Quote: C) This trade route isn't functioning properly since the price isn't changing dynamically as the trade route gets used, as it should.
Read my previous post, the mechanics work like any other traderoute in the game. Prices are dynamic.
Quote: D) There is no realistic way to prevent this operation from occurring without a disproportionate amount of force, since the titan itself requires a monstrous force to confront and even then its damn near impossible to actually destroy it, and if the freighters get into trouble they just dock.
Next patch will seriously gimp titans if you haven't heard. DD nerfed and bubbles can hold titans. Next please.
Quote: E) The differences between jump bridging freighters and jump bridging deep space transports or even t1 industrials is that, first, one freighter hauls as much as 33 well-fitted haulers, and second, freighters are designed from the ground up to be utterly helpless, and for them to move around with virtually no risk whatsoever is a broken mechanic.
Jumpbridging freighters requires a titan. See point D.
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![B Glorious B Glorious](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1081434271/portrait?size=64)
B Glorious
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.10 18:52:00 -
[147]
Way to go, genius, you made a straw man for one argument, you sidestepped three, and you flat out denied another. And you screwed up your post's formatting while you were at it, nicely done. (before your edit)
Give me one reason why jump bridging freighters with a titan or multiple titans isn't unbalanced. Give me one reason why a trade route system that doesn't update unless an entire sell/buy order is filled isn't an abusable and archaic potion of the game's code. I'm genuinely interested. |
![mechtech mechtech](https://images.evetech.net/characters/912649697/portrait?size=64)
mechtech
Entropy Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.10 18:52:00 -
[148]
I can't see anything wrong with this...
If they put 200B into it, they should be able to get out 1% a day.
Anyway, it's not impossible to disrupt this. This whole route hedges on a few sellers of plutonium, all someone has to do is take the system and do it themselves.
It's something worth fighting over, and I think 0.0 needs more of that.
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![Aeon Yakati Aeon Yakati](https://images.evetech.net/characters/575257713/portrait?size=64)
Aeon Yakati
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.10 18:58:00 -
[149]
Originally by: B Glorious Way to go, genius, you made a straw man for one argument, you sidestepped three, and you flat out denied another. And you screwed up your post's formatting while you were at it, nicely done. (before your edit)
who's the straw man, the one responding to an argument, or the one making a pathetic remark about a missing slash ('/') in the post markup and then still mentioning it after the edit has been noted?
So go away, alt, you're not worth my time.
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![Twoside Twoside](https://images.evetech.net/characters/131301236/portrait?size=64)
Twoside
Gallente Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.10 19:03:00 -
[150]
What, a game mechanism that makes a lot of people frown to say the least, and bob involved??? But hey, let's give them the benefit of the doubt, they sure deserved it considering their past ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif) |
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