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Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 23:05:00 - [1] Portsmouth Shipyards Inc. IPO Table of Contents 1) Introduction 2) Timeframe 3) Description of Offering 4) Estimated Earnings 5) Share Purchasing Information 6) Share Repurchasing Information 7) Current Assets / Financial Data 8) General Information (why this offer will work) 1) Introduction I have been experimenting with different methods of production, logistics, and marketing for over a year in Eve. The culmination of those efforts is contained in this IPO. I will be launching a 60 billion isk effort in order to provide a constant stream of income through the production and sale of capital ships as well as the sale of researched blue print copys. The corporation that manages this production will be Portsmouth Shipyards Inc. [PSI]. 2) Timeframe -Public offering beginning 6/28/07 and concluding once all shares are sold. -Repurchasing Period. This period will begin 60 days after full production begins and will continue indefinitely. -First dividend paid at production time + 30 days -First repurchase offer at production time +60 days In addition, I held a corporation and alliance only share purchasing period that led up to the initial public offering. 3) Description of Offering To establish and maintain a capital ship production facility that will produce between 4 and 6 ships per week will require approximately 60 billion isk of capital. This includes 40 billion isk worth of blueprints, as well as 20 billion isk of raw materials to cover the first month's production. I have acquired, using my personal assets, an initial supply of capital component BPOs valuing approximately 20 billion isk. The additional isk necessary to complete this venture will be provided through the shares issued via this IPO. There will be a total of 40 billion isk worth of shares, divided into 4000 shares with an initial value of 10,000,000 isk (10 million) each with an initial 2000 shares going to myself to offset the existing assets that have been purchased. All assets will be held by the production company Portsmouth Shipyards Inc. The CEO of Portsmouth will be my alt Spanner Frew. The CFO/Accountant character of Portsmouth will be my other alt, Researchi. All isk invested, donated, and earned through IPO efforts will be kept in this corporation and paid out as dividends and share repurchases. 4) Estimated Earnings Earnings will come from two revenue streams. The first will be the production and sale of capital class ships including carriers, dreadnaughts, and freighters. The second stream will be through the research and sale of capital component blueprint copies, to be made and sold as available. 90% of all income will be paid as dividends. The remaining 10% will be reinvested into the corporation for additional assets. Initial returns are estimated at 15-18% per month payable as dividends. As operations expand and shares are repurchased, returns have the potential to increase exponentially. 5) Share Purchasing Information To purchase shares, send increments of 10,000,000 isk (10 million) to Researchi along with an eve-mail with the number of shares you are requesting. After payment is confirmed you will be invited to join a mailing list in game that will provide periodic updates and important announcements. 6) Share Repurchasing Information 60 days after full production begins, PSI will begin offering share repurchases. This plan will be based on available funds and is only guaranteed to the extent that funds are available. Share repurchases will only be offered on shares that have been held for 20 days. (This eliminates share bouncing to "steal" dividends". Shares will be repurchased for 95% of their current valuation minus any dividends paid in the last 10 days. In order to request a share repurchase, simply send an eve-mail to Researchi and I will respond with an offer for your shares based off current market values. -Wylker
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 23:05:00 - [2] 7) Current Assets/Financial Data Portsmouth Shipyards currently holds 21 billion isk worth of assets. These assets include capital ship component BPOs, minerals, and fighter BPOs. Currently there are 2160 outstanding shares of stock. Financial data will soon be made available in a downloadable and streaming (RSS) feed to all stakeholders in the corporation. This system will make use of the new API released in Rev 2 (as soon as I can make it work). 8) General Information Cap ship pilots are growing at an enormous rate in the game. Reliable suppliers of ships will be in huge demand in the very near future. I have developed a business plan that will maximize my production capabilities, minimize costs and maintain excellent profit margins. While many people may have seen me on these forums and some may disagree with my views, I am positive that everyone I have dealt with will vouch that I never break my word and have a high standard of personal ethics and business sense. Out of game, I hold a BS in business management with focus on accounting and economics. I have personally launched three separate LLCs in two different states and eventually sold each business for a profit. I have worked on my own, and I have managed staffs of over 200 people. I have run in-game production efforts in Eve, SWG, and various other games and have always turned a tidy profit for myself and my investors. To date I have amassed over 20 billion isk through advanced reaction production and marketing in eve, nearly all of which is being invested in this project. On a final note, Portsmouth Shipyards is an independent business operating with the sole intent to make profits. Sale of capital ships will occur without regard to inter-alliance politics or the personal feelings of any of my shareholders, including myself. The goal here is to make everyone a ton of isk, and voluntarily shrinking the client base is not the way to do this. To all my future partners, welcome aboard. -Wylker
Spanner Frew Gallente Portsmouth Shipyards Inc	Posted - 2007.06.27 23:06:00 - [3] Confirming this character
Researchi Minmatar Portsmouth Shipyards Inc	Posted - 2007.06.27 23:07:00 - [4] Confirming this character
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.28 03:36:00 - [5] If you want to participate, please be careful to whom you send isk. There is not only a copycat character named Researchii, but a copycat corp named Portsmouth Shipyards (without the Inc.) that some Sylph Alliance person made. Not that either of these are attempts at scamming, but the names are close enough where people could have a problem. Please double check before sending isk that you've typed it correctly. -Wylker
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.06.28 05:06:00 - [6] Edited by: Ricdic on 28/06/2007 05:10:15 Ok, let me chew this up first: 1) Another Capital IPO > I cannot stand capital IPO's, but in this time in Eve, where Level 5 missions will have them as a requirement, I believe a small but substantial portion of the empire guys will fork out for these ships for their L5 mission running. So I will let me distaste for Capital Ship/Component IPO's slide in this instance. 2) I enjoyed reading your business plan. It was direct, to the point, and well structured. Now, onto the bad points 1) You have not listed any form of estimated profits you expect to recieve. Should we expect 100 isk per share per month dividend? As someone with a BA, I would expect you to have financial goals and expectations listed as an extremely important point. 2) In-game you are 1 year old. You have advised lots of people can vouch for you. Do you plan on having any of them actually post in these threads? 3) Are you willing to accept a trustee or two into your corporation, to lock the bpo's in corporate hangars, and ensure votes are required to remove them? 4) If not, why not? 5) What happens if you get hit by a bus, if answer to 3 and 4 is No. 6) Most importantly, why should we trust you with 40 billion isk? The most worrying point in your whole spiel, was that you didn't list trust at all (short of a simple sentence about un-named people that would vouch for you). I would like a nice writeup on why you believe you can be trusted, what your accomplishments in Eve are that can substantiate this, and how you plan to show you can be trusted (trustee's, endorsement etc) 7) Security. Being that you will 'likely' be using POS's in lowsec or 0.0, what risk minimisation procedures are in place? I see you are part of an alliance, but this is not the corporation that will be running things. Will your current alliance protect your operation? 8) If your alliance will protect the operation, are you willing too have your Alliance Executor come into this thread and endorse as such? 9) Is your Alliance Executor willing to vouch for your operation, and put the Alliance reputation at stake, and/or ensure investors funds are returned from his pocket (or anyone elses) in the event of a scam? 10) Back onto security. Are your alliance (or the corporation you are creating) currently at war, and do you honestly believe this war could result in lost produce, either through empire freighting, lowsec ganking, or 0.0 war targets? If you have war targets, who are they? 11) You have a very minimal security status (0.2). This would generally tell me (an old vet) that you: (one of the following) a) Are an alt b) Dont run missions (standings shows only a handful of rats he would have killed in a year) c) Don't do any form of ratting d) This character is not based in 0.0 Checking your killboard history: PA Killboard tells us you have never killed/been killed by PA. Eve-KB. Thankfully you are listed here. However, all your losses have been when using the following ships: Badger Caracal Escape Pod Merlin Rifter So either you are a cheap PvP'er, or you have pitiful combat skills. All of this combat shows low-sec or 0.0 combat as well. Now, I have then scanned your eve-online forum posts. After careful reading, this has shown another character in your possession known as Little Strawberry. Little Strawberry has no history worth mentioning. A post you made today and I quote : Quote: Why? It doesn't make my point about you less valid. And I have more characters than you do IQ points. :P Another of your posts speaks of an in-game issue that has been there since beta. Would this insinuate that you have a main main character, and this is a secondary? Ok, now seeing as I am profiling you so deeply, current wars = none 75 man corporation, 423 man Alliance. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.06.28 05:07:00 - [7] So, I have posted the questions there, as well as some general info for those not in the game or not interested in doing the research. I should have another batch for you once those have been answered as detailed as possible please, Cheers, Ricdic Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.28 10:36:00 - [8] Originally by: Ricdic another batch As an outsider interested observer going slighly off topic: thank you for sharing the detailed investigation Ricdic. And thanks in general for this altruistic community service you're providing :) And for the OP: I reckon Ricdic's opinions are well valued by potential investors, so answering to his worries is very good start for your enterprise. -Lasse without anything more to add
Isentro Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.28 11:40:00 - [9] I will vouch for Wylker, he's tha Master! Wylker is the type of guy i trust with my money, and he is very enthusiastic about this project, and has invested into it heavily with his own funds. As far as Capital IPO's go, this is about as secure and safe as you'll get, Wylker doesn't play around with his money. As far as PVP goes, he mainly flies Little Strawberry, who is pwn on the battlefield (Wylker mainly plays DOTA, lol). I would recommend these shares any day of the week. Isentro.
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.06.28 15:19:00 - [10] Originally by: Ricdic Edited by: Ricdic on 28/06/2007 05:10:15 Ok, let me chew this up first: 1) Another Capital IPO > I cannot stand capital IPO's, but in this time in Eve, where Level 5 missions will have them as a requirement, I believe a small but substantial portion of the empire guys will fork out for these ships for their L5 mission running. So I will let me distaste for Capital Ship/Component IPO's slide in this instance. Actually at current time it seems only a few level 5 missions accept capital ships though. It would make more sense to invest in logistic ships with accesories. The capital market is quite competive as it is, and it take longer to shift ships these days. And there is those that seem afraid to sit at stock and dump their ships at very low prices. It might seem cool and all to build capital ships, but atm it feels like a lot of work for little return consider the time a job take, pluss all logistic involved. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.28 17:41:00 - [11] Edited by: Wylker on 28/06/2007 17:42:11 Good stuff, heres what I have for you: Originally by: Ricdic Another Capital IPO You raise good points. In addition I believe there is going to be a ton of opportunity from 0.0 alliance pilots that do not have in-house capital suppliers. For example, in my small corporation (40 actives or so) we will have 10 new capital ship pilots just this month, and many of these players are around a year old or so. Originally by: Ricdic I enjoyed reading your business plan. It was direct, to the point, and well structured. Thanks! Originally by: Ricdic You have not listed any form of estimated profits you expect to recieve. Over in section 4 I briefly mention estimated returns of 15-18%. This number was arrived at with the following assumptions: current market prices will fluctuate, but the ratios of mineral costs to finished goods will not, the supply/demand curve for capital ships will have a mean ratio of 1, production will be contiguous. My business plan (which I believe is unique/rare) will allow me to keep my overhead costs extremely low, and I believe I can overtake and dominate a market while keeping margins high. I donÆt want to disclose too much information as to why, for obvious reasons. The aforementioned estimate should be fairly close to accurate and if anything is 1-2 points low. Originally by: Ricdic Do you plan on having any of them actually post in these threads? IÆve put out the call! Originally by: Ricdic Are you willing to accept a trustee or two into your corporation? If not, why not? This issue is more delicate for me. I think that in the short run, I would allow this. However, in the future, if the business dictated it, I may want to move these prints. There are things that simply canÆt be done in empire :D Originally by: Ricdic What happens if you get hit by a bus, if answer to 3 and 4 is No. I think in the worst case scenario people would simply be out their isk. The only protection to this would be to give someone equal access to all of the corp assets. I am unwilling to do this. If there is an alternative that could be accessed in the event that I disappear, I would love to do it, but I do not know of it. Originally by: Ricdic Most importantly, why should we trust you with 40 billion isk? Of course, in the world of eve, all you have is reputation. I have been playing this game for a year, and in that time have only been in 2 corporations. The second corporation is made up mainly of people with whom I left the first corporation. All this really means is that IÆm dedicated to my friends and have been for a year but itÆs a start I guess. In that time, I have had two significant projects that involved other peopleÆs money. The first was when I was barely 3 months old, and launched a 6 POS tower effort to produce a very complicated advanced reaction, move the reaction to empire, and sell it for a profit. The plan went exactly according to schedule, and we were profiting nearly 2 billion isk per month just off the reaction. If we had not left ISS during the IAC war, I would likely still be doing this reaction. Every investor in that project was repaid their initial investment along with any available dividends when I cancelled the project. I will try to get some of them to post here. Other than that, you will see that while I have very strong opinions on matters throughout the forums, I am very consistent and loyal to my allies. I wish I had some way to express to you how important I think business ethics are and how I believe that businesses have a moral responsibility, but beyond simple statements I have no way of proving that to you. In addition, I possessed all hangar and POS roles in my ISS corp, and when we left (it was not very amicable) none of us took so much as 1 isk from The Praxis Initiative. Finally, I was a founder and director of my current corp, and recently voluntarily stopped being an active director as my play time was greatly reduced and I did not want to do a disservice to my corp. -Wylker
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.28 17:42:00 - [12] Originally by: Ricdic Security Right now there will be no POS operations. My original intent was to use a high-sec POS, but with the recent changes to how war decs operate in high sec, there is no longer really a reason to do so. Most of the benefits of producing in a POS are offset by the cost of maintaining the tower and the additional assets that have to be purchased. So for the initial period all production will happen in a low sec station. If 0.0 operations are commenced, then the corporation will operate under the protection of Aftermath Alliance. Originally by: Ricdic If your alliance will protect the operation, are you willing too have your Alliance Executor come into this thread and endorse as such? Sure, no problem. Originally by: Ricdic Is your Alliance Executor willing to vouch for your operation, and put the Alliance reputation at stake, and/or ensure investors funds are returned from his pocket (or anyone elses) in the event of a scam? I have spoken to my executor, and he is willing to vouch for me. However, our alliance does not have the funds to guarantee this project. If it did, this probably would have been a closed corporation and just used alliance funds. Originally by: Ricdic Back onto security. Are your alliance (or the corporation you are creating) currently at war, and do you honestly believe this war could result in lost produce, either through empire freighting, low-sec ganking, or 0.0 war targets? If you have war targets, who are they? Aftermath lives in the north, there will always be war, but probably never a war-dec. The IPO corporation is not at war, and I do not anticipate losses as I will be using a multitude of alternative shipping/hauling methods in the event of a war dec. Originally by: Ricdic You have a very minimal security status (0.2). This would generally tell me (an old vet) that you: (one of the following) Checking your kill board history: etc. Wylker is the first character I ever made, and used to do some ratting, but we also did fairly heavy anti-pirate activities in Sukanan (which kept the sec status pretty neutral). I do not run missions. Wylker is nearly 100% industrial and market based, but recently has stepped into a carrier and will probably make some kill mails that way. My primary PvP character has always been Little Strawberry, and will continue to be her for the foreseeable future. In ISS, I still am in the top 75 pvp pilots (we left the alliance over six months ago) unfortunately, that kill board is private. Here however, are my stats in Pyrrhus-Sicarii: Little Strawberry Stats Originally by: Ricdic A post you made today and I quote : Quote: Why? It doesn't make my point about you less valid. And I have more characters than you do IQ points. :P Another of your posts speaks of an in-game issue that has been there since beta. Would this insinuate that you have a main main character, and this is a secondary? Ok, now seeing as I am profiling you so deeply, current wars = none 75 man corporation, 423 man Alliance No, I am only a year into this game, I simply make myself a student of the game and try to learn as much as I can about the ins and outs of it. I do currently have 4 accounts (one of which will go away soon), as my fortunes were made in running the markets and I needed instant access to markets all over eve to accomplish my goals. The only characters I really undock with are Wylker and Little Strawberry, the rest simply serve a purpose. I really hope that answers some of your concerns, please let me know what other questions are out there. -Wylker
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.28 17:50:00 - [13] Originally by: Ruffio Sepico It might seem cool and all to build capital ships, but atm it feels like a lot of work for little return consider the time a job take, pluss all logistic involved. You echo exactly what my initial feeling was about cap ship production. However, after doing a ton of research and market analysis, I feel that there is definately opportunity out there if someone can run the business correctly. There is a ton of work involved, but there is also the possibility for great rewards. -Wylker
Aelena Thraant Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.28 17:57:00 - [14] Originally by: Ricdic 7) Security. Being that you will 'likely' be using POS's in lowsec or 0.0, what risk minimisation procedures are in place? I see you are part of an alliance, but this is not the corporation that will be running things. Will your current alliance protect your operation? Since some of the investors are from our alliance and we love to fight... I can say that we would come and help out. However this is not run by our alliance... Just a trusted member of our alliance and of OHSHT Originally by: Ricdic 8) If your alliance will protect the operation, are you willing too have your Alliance Executor come into this thread and endorse as such? I'm the current leader of Aftermath. If you look at the Holding corp you will see Aftermath Aelena as the CEO... needless to say I post with this char and not my holding corp char. Originally by: Ricdic 9) Is your Alliance Executor willing to vouch for your operation, and put the Alliance reputation at stake, and/or ensure investors funds are returned from his pocket (or anyone elses) in the event of a scam? I can vouch that he is a very trusted member of our alliance and OHSHT. Since we are a relativity new alliance we don't have 40 bil sitting in our alliance wallet... Otherwise we would have had the alliance fund this project and it wouldn't be open to the public. Originally by: Ricdic Ok, now seeing as I am profiling you so deeply, current wars = none 75 man corporation, 423 man Alliance. We are a PVP based alliance and therefore our numbers are small.... You will see this rising as we are getting one and maybe two more corporations in our alliance. If you have any other questions or I missed a question feel free to ask away.
Vladimir Yuchenko Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.28 18:22:00 - [15] I have entered into joint vetnures with Wylker before and have always been happy with the way he has handled things and his approach to business. I've also been in corp with him for the majority of my Eve career and he is a trusted friend and business partner.
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.06.28 20:10:00 - [16] Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Ruffio Sepico It might seem cool and all to build capital ships, but atm it feels like a lot of work for little return consider the time a job take, pluss all logistic involved. You echo exactly what my initial feeling was about cap ship production. However, after doing a ton of research and market analysis, I feel that there is definately opportunity out there if someone can run the business correctly. There is a ton of work involved, but there is also the possibility for great rewards. I been into building freighters and cap ships soon for 2 years. With the introduction of level 5 missions and CCP's statement about allow capital ships for these I did hope for increased demand of these ships, but thats not really the reality atm. Takes time to sell, and lot of competition, unless you want to dump your ships fast and cheap to re-sellers (which there is plenty off too). Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.28 21:55:00 - [17] Originally by: Ruffio Sepico Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Ruffio Sepico It might seem cool and all to build capital ships, but atm it feels like a lot of work for little return consider the time a job take, pluss all logistic involved. You echo exactly what my initial feeling was about cap ship production. However, after doing a ton of research and market analysis, I feel that there is definately opportunity out there if someone can run the business correctly. There is a ton of work involved, but there is also the possibility for great rewards. I been into building freighters and cap ships soon for 2 years. With the introduction of level 5 missions and CCP's statement about allow capital ships for these I did hope for increased demand of these ships, but thats not really the reality atm. Takes time to sell, and lot of competition, unless you want to dump your ships fast and cheap to re-sellers (which there is plenty off too). I hope you understand the skepticism that I view someone who is a potential competitor telling me how tough the market is when you've stuck with it for 2 years :P Anyway, if you have had a hard time of it, hopefully I will have some better success. -Wylker
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.06.28 23:42:00 - [18] Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Ruffio Sepico Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Ruffio Sepico It might seem cool and all to build capital ships, but atm it feels like a lot of work for little return consider the time a job take, pluss all logistic involved. You echo exactly what my initial feeling was about cap ship production. However, after doing a ton of research and market analysis, I feel that there is definately opportunity out there if someone can run the business correctly. There is a ton of work involved, but there is also the possibility for great rewards. I been into building freighters and cap ships soon for 2 years. With the introduction of level 5 missions and CCP's statement about allow capital ships for these I did hope for increased demand of these ships, but thats not really the reality atm. Takes time to sell, and lot of competition, unless you want to dump your ships fast and cheap to re-sellers (which there is plenty off too). I hope you understand the skepticism that I view someone who is a potential competitor telling me how tough the market is when you've stuck with it for 2 years :P Anyway, if you have had a hard time of it, hopefully I will have some better success. Try hang out daily in the ships trade chan + keep browse contracts then. And for the sake of yourself and your investors, don't overestimate earnings and return of investment. Just trying to be friendly here, Im not afraid of competition, new ones appear all the time anyways, one more doesnt really affect me much. Good luck with your project though. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Crovan Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.29 05:35:00 - [19] Wylker is an old corp mate, and a good friend both in and out of game. We have been known to hang out and shoot zombies while drinking copious amounts of beer. I have never known him to be fiscally dishonest, and he does have a great head for moneymaking in this game. I intend to buy into this IPO, even with my eager liquid assets. Originally by: Major Stormer Quote: What should the MC do? Make things explode.
Ionia Advanced Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.06.29 10:25:00 - [20] Do you think now is the best time to be launching this? The profits on cap ships are the lowest they have ever been since I entered the business by far.
Celestra Ambrose Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.29 11:20:00 - [21] Edited by: Celestra Ambrose on 29/06/2007 11:22:46 Originally by: Ionia Do you think now is the best time to be launching this? The profits on cap ships are the lowest they have ever been since I entered the business by far. QFT. There seems to be a capital ship IPO popping up every week these days even though the capital ship market has been saturated for quite some time now. Profit margins are rediculously low for the initial isk investment, logistics, and time invested into it. And just looking at the sell order forum shows you how many of these ventures go belly up. There seems to be more component and ship bpo's being sold off than any other T1 bpo at the moment
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:41:00 - [22] Originally by: Celestra Ambrose There seems to be a capital ship IPO popping up every week these days even though the capital ship market has been saturated for quite some time now. Profit margins are rediculously low for the initial isk investment, logistics, and time invested into it. And just looking at the sell order forum shows you how many of these ventures go belly up. There seems to be more component and ship bpo's being sold off than any other T1 bpo at the moment Whilst I do agree with this point, I would have to say this is (imo) one of the best described capital ship IPO's I have come across. I have seen many over the past year, but none has really stood out to me, and made me feel safe in my investment (not counting those bits and pieces IPO's like PISOF and Ionias joints). After reading the OP's business plan, and his response to my comments, as well as the glowing recommendations from those around him, I do feel comfortable investing in this. Generally, if someone can sell me (and I am a hard sale) with a business plan, you can almost guarantee they have the skills to pull off the running operation as well. I am gonna have a flutter in this, but as always, when investing you need to weigh in the pro's and con's etc. Get onto TS with them and have a chat if you need too, but don't invest because I said I would, do it if you personally feel the same way. Shame, my investment amount will be kinda pitiful this month as I have been ensnared with LOTRO of late. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
CmdrThor FinFleet	Posted - 2007.06.29 16:21:00 - [23] Originally by: Wylker 2) Timeframe -Public offering beginning 6/28/07 and concluding once all shares are sold. -Repurchasing Period. This period will begin 60 days after full production begins and will continue indefinitely. -First dividend paid at production time + 30 days -First repurchase offer at production time +60 days - How long will you wait for the shares to sell? I don't want to invest now and wait 6 months before you even get started. - If you do have a fixed amount of time allocated for that, what happens if you only acquire 20b or 30b, instead of the planned 40b? - If you do get all the funds you expect, will you start building immediately, or how long do you plan to acquire and research the BPOs?
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.06.29 16:57:00 - [24] Originally by: CmdrThor - If you do get all the funds you expect, will you start building immediately, or how long do you plan to acquire and research the BPOs? Yeh and will you use my services for your research? Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Korasen Linachi Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.29 17:11:00 - [25] Edited by: Korasen Linachi on 29/06/2007 17:10:09 I love Wylker, and would trust him with 100% of my isk
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.29 17:13:00 - [26] Originally by: CmdrThor - How long will you wait for the shares to sell? I don't want to invest now and wait 6 months before you even get started. - If you do have a fixed amount of time allocated for that, what happens if you only acquire 20b or 30b, instead of the planned 40b? Good questions. Right now I basically have half of my component BPOS. I require at least 10B in investment capital before I can begin production. If I completely fail to raise any isk, at the end of 6 months I will return any investors equity that is requested, and try something else with whatever remains. The reason my goal is a 40B investment is that it will allow me the economy of scale to offset the current market issues around capital ships. Originally by: CmdrThor If you do get all the funds you expect, will you start building immediately, or how long do you plan to acquire and research the BPOs? I have already purchased many BPOs, and will be purchasing more immediately when I have the isk to do so. The prints go into research immediately after purchase. This allows me to begin production very quickly, and be at full production after approximately 90 days, assuming the IPO sells. If not, full production will take longer, but there will still be dividends paid off of whatever production I can manage. Sorry Ricdic, I've got my own research slots -Wylker
Adam Weishaupt Minmatar Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.29 17:32:00 - [27] We know who Wylker is in real life and where to find him. For their confort and convenience, investors may purchase a 'stalker insurance bond' to be redeemed only in the case of massive fraud where his personal information will be provided to you and you may do as you wish. As added security I will retain a neutral third party who knows a guy who knows a guy at the Census Bureau to confirm said information is legitimate. Also available if you call in the next 30 minutes is a PREMIUM stalker bond, where I will actually do all the stalking for you, including a webcam documentation of everything I do which I will post to various reputable sites such as 4chan, ytmnd, and the Wall Street Journal. Price: Regular: 200m Premium : 2b + expenses We regret we cannot offer a 'Bus Bond' where we would payout a high value based on a low premium if Wylker were to be fatally crushed by a mass transit vehicle, but we can assure all potential investors that Wylker does not take the bus, nor does he cross the street without looking both ways. In all seriousness, I've played EVE with Wylker for awhile and seriously doubt he would run off with anyone's huge sum of money. Also while I agree this is not going to be some wildly profitable growth investment, it is a steady income stream and also offers the chance to get involved without throwing billions in, which also minimizes your risk. Face it, investing in EVE is risky, but this is probably one of the less-risky investments out there.
Templer Relleg Endgame.	Posted - 2007.06.29 19:03:00 - [28] What makes you different from any other capital ship IPO out there?
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.29 19:19:00 - [29] Originally by: Templer Relleg What makes you different from any other capital ship IPO out there? I don't want to rehash TOO much, if you take a look at the very last section of the IPO description, as well as my response to Ricdic's post, I have done the best I can to emphasize why I feel I will be successful and profitable. Thanks for your interest :) -Wylker
Vulture Virtue Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.29 19:49:00 - [30] I'm a director in Wylker's corp, and a fellow founder. I have invested into Wylker's projects before and they have done nothing but make me oodles of isk. In addition, I can vouch that his business plan is very sound, since I helped with a lot of the initial research into capital ship production.
Blue Dice Gallente Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2007.06.29 20:59:00 - [31] I think that seen the above i will risk some investment. Nothing is fail proof in a game like that, but i think that this one is quite close to save. Money sent.
Berand Shadow Of The Light R i s e	Posted - 2007.06.29 22:00:00 - [32] Edited by: Berand on 29/06/2007 21:59:34 I'll sign on for this one too, I mean it's just money right? I like the proposal, the guy has been vouched for. Isk sent
Jim Linger Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.29 22:47:00 - [33] another vouch for, i invested 400mil myself, so even given the very minimum expected return, that 60mil/month \o/ The only reason this is even being offered to the public is because we simply dont have 40bil lying around :-P _____________________________________________ Discussing moderation is a no-no - Tirg http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/wigmoso/evesig.jpg Your sig is too big (25.55 KB (26163 bytes)) Max sig size is 24,000 bytes - Karass Sayfo
Admiral Fridge Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.29 23:34:00 - [34] I've been with Wylker since he started in The Praxis Initiative, where we've been for a long time and can vouch for all he has said. He had the means to take with him a lot of isk and never touched it. That and the fact that he made the corperation a lot of money with his reactions. I would entrust this man with my isks easily, he has made a lot of friends in EVE and I know he would never throw that away for playmoney. He does however have a large interest and knowledge in enterprises! _______________
Mark Weston Caldari The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.06.30 00:36:00 - [35] Isk sent. When will you be issuing the shares? New to EVE? Join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Daimyo Brass	Posted - 2007.06.30 07:33:00 - [36] Seems Good Plan. Isk sent.
Cuttlefish Red Army Inc	Posted - 2007.06.30 12:51:00 - [37] This IPO is vague. Good luck though, as your competing directly with Red Army Inc. Cuttlefish Red Army Inc Director
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.06.30 14:43:00 - [38] Originally by: Cuttlefish This IPO is vague. Good luck though, as your competing directly with Red Army Inc. Cuttlefish No offence dude, but I feel more comfortable investing with this guys group than Red Army. Don't ask me why, I just feel this guy really knows what he is doing, and will go on to become a regular name on the forums as one who can be trusted. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.06.30 14:53:00 - [39] Originally by: Cuttlefish This IPO is vague. Good luck though, as your competing directly with Red Army Inc. Speaks volumes of someone who is looking for investors to simultaneously try to slam dunk a potential competitor. Give you a plus for not trolling with an alt but still, bad form. The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. Shar Tegral> Some pew-pew at doo-doo for free-whee!!!!
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.30 15:53:00 - [40] Hey guys, I usually issue shares every 24 hours, but I ended up FC'ing a POS defense op last night until 3 am, and had to work early today. I will get all shares issued tonight when I get home. -Wylker
LaVista Vista Red Army Inc	Posted - 2007.06.30 16:21:00 - [41] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Cuttlefish This IPO is vague. Good luck though, as your competing directly with Red Army Inc. Speaks volumes of someone who is looking for investors to simultaneously try to slam dunk a potential competitor. Give you a plus for not trolling with an alt but still, bad form. I must emphasise that cuttlefish didnt represent Red Army Inc, but that was his own meaning. Red Army inc wouldnt care about this IPO. On behalf of Red Army inc, i hope that this IPO will go well. CEO Of Red Army Inc.
Aman Sul Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.30 23:20:00 - [42] Wylker has enthusiastically been talking about this idea for some time I am glad to see it's launch. I'll take 100 shares. "Let them hate us as long as they fear us"
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.07.01 03:11:00 - [43] Oo, if BOB are investing, then so am I !!! Just not right this second, got a ton of debt to pay off Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.01 04:46:00 - [44] Thank everyone so much for the interest, 484 shares have sold, so there are 3,516 remaining. I really appreciate those of you that have vouched for me. If you are excited by this IPO, please tell your friends! The sooner I get to my first threshold of production the sooner the dividends begin to roll :) -Wylker
Raquel Smith Caldari Freedom-Technologies	Posted - 2007.07.01 12:14:00 - [45] Good luck to all. I do know where he lives in real life. I'd invest but it'd be in competition with another obligation. ;)
Lister Black Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.01 20:03:00 - [46] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Cuttlefish This IPO is vague. Good luck though, as your competing directly with Red Army Inc. Cuttlefish No offence dude, but I feel more comfortable investing with this guys group than Red Army. Don't ask me why, I just feel this guy really knows what he is doing, and will go on to become a regular name on the forums as one who can be trusted. quotin dis ---------------------------- "Unshrink you?! Well that would require some sort of a REbigulator, which is a concept so ridiculous it makes me want to laugh out loud and chortle..." -Prof.Frink
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.02 16:43:00 - [47] We had a great opening weekend, with 18% of shares being sold! (I'll post exact numbers this evening). As of midnight CST Sunday night, all shares have been issued. If you believe that I overlooked your share purchase, please send Researchi an eve-mail. I formed a public mailing list that will be used for announcements and IPO information, but I forgot to bring the name of it with me to work. Thanks again for everyone that has invested so far, especially Aman who tried to pay 10x share price for his shares :P Please tell anyone who may be interested about our shared opportunity, as the next 3 weeks will determine a large portion of our success! -Wylker
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.03 02:39:00 - [48] Edited by: Wylker on 03/07/2007 02:38:13 Note to all investors/potential investors: Subscribe to the mailing list "PSI Mailing List" for important updates and announcements! -Wylker
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.07.03 16:15:00 - [49] Originally by: Wylker Note to all investors/potential investors: Subscribe to the mailing list "PSI Mailing List" for important updates and announcements! How I handle this is I have an investor welcome "packet" saved via the ingame notepad. When I accept a new investor I add them to the allowed section of the mailing list. I then go to eve mail them, copy the welcome packet, and paste off to them. It is far better to control who you interact with. Having an open mailing list only asks for any troll to join in and any non-interested party to lurk(snipe) needlessly. The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. Shar Tegral> Well someone please say something quotable for this month!!!!
Vulture Virtue Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.04 19:33:00 - [50] Some bumpity for a corpmate.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.07.05 00:22:00 - [51] Originally by: Wylker Thank everyone so much for the interest, 484 shares have sold, so there are 3,516 remaining. I really appreciate those of you that have vouched for me. I'm curious... what is the current investment status. Ray left me with 500M and no dance partner. The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. Shar Tegral> Well someone please say something quotable for this month!!!!
Kwendon	Posted - 2007.07.05 12:25:00 - [52] 100 million sent. 10 Shares please.
Templer Relleg Endgame.	Posted - 2007.07.05 12:39:00 - [53] For some reason Wylker never seems to be online. Am i just unlucky, or whats the deal?
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.05 16:23:00 - [54] Originally by: Templer Relleg For some reason Wylker never seems to be online. Am i just unlucky, or whats the deal? I'm generally online after 9PM central M-F. I am online most of the day Wednesday and Sunday mornings/early afternoon US TZ. It's usually easiest to catch me with eve-mail, but if you want to talk in person let me know and I'll try to look for you. -Wylker
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.05 16:24:00 - [55] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Wylker Thank everyone so much for the interest, 484 shares have sold, so there are 3,516 remaining. I really appreciate those of you that have vouched for me. I'm curious... what is the current investment status. Ray left me with 500M and no dance partner. I'll publish my first investor newsletter to the mailing list on Sunday and cc it here. Should have some good stuff to report. -Wylker
Tychus	Posted - 2007.07.06 16:54:00 - [56] I feel this one is a go... I flew with Wylker in PRAX for the better part of a year, and his boots are on tight. I can't speak for the man directly about profits/business plans, but i feel the lvl 5 mission drops/gains have not impacted the market strongly yet. So i will choose to be prospectus neutral here. As a cap builder myself, i have seen only a few sales recently. As players become comfortable with cap-capable lvl 5's sales will go up. Its just the simple truth that people will be risk averse with they're most valuable ship. Once some techniques are developed to minimize risk and maximise potential, sales will increase. It then becomes a question of marketing Plus, there will allways be a portion of the population who are just finishing skilling up for a cap. Those sales are slow, but steady. Wylker is a VERY intelligent man who has put a great deal of care into this project, and he will be supported by competent people. T
Kara Rhane Gallente Rhane's Research and Development Labs.	Posted - 2007.07.10 16:44:00 - [57] Just trying to find it, but how many shares are left? It looks like a good idea, it's a solid write up and instead of being negative and attacking ridic for his questions you answered them 1 by 1. I'd like to invest but I'm making sure of A) has share price changed? b) how many shares are left Please let me know. -Kara ***** Rhane's Research and Development Labs Click our link today to search our Ammo/Missile BPO 'sets'
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.11 06:21:00 - [58] Originally by: Kara Rhane Just trying to find it, but how many shares are left? It looks like a good idea, it's a solid write up and instead of being negative and attacking ridic for his questions you answered them 1 by 1. I'd like to invest but I'm making sure of A) has share price changed? b) how many shares are left Please let me know. -Kara Hi Kara, There are currently 3,271 shares left, and the IPO price will stand until all shares have sold. Obviously after that the market will determine share price :) -Wylker
VinceNoir Amarr Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.11 06:47:00 - [59] Edited by: VinceNoir on 11/07/2007 06:48:34 I sneezed. Originally by: "Shanda Captison" Vince, you can't even spell ECM m8
MadMax21	Posted - 2007.07.12 08:19:00 - [60] well what the heck its not real money anyway i'll take 10 shares will send isk as soon as i get home!
Researchi Minmatar Portsmouth Shipyards Inc	Posted - 2007.07.13 15:32:00 - [61] Hey folks! After an explosive first few days with 750 shares sold we've had a slow week or so. Please nudge your friends and send them our way so that this launch can be successful. I am planning on beginning production on Sunday based on what has been invested so far, but returns will be light until we can achieve economy of scale. Thanks again to everyone that has invested so far! Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
VinceNoir Amarr Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.13 18:28:00 - [62] After recently making bank producing and distributing ingame browser 'erotica' I will be purchasing 20 shares. Evemail/ISK sent. Originally by: "Shanda Captison" Vince, you can't even spell ECM m8
Miranda Duvall Gallente OPM Holdings	Posted - 2007.07.15 14:01:00 - [63] Isk sent yesterday, shares NOT (yet) recieved... My Skills -Invention HowTo
Templer Relleg Endgame.	Posted - 2007.07.15 19:53:00 - [64] Edited by: Templer Relleg on 15/07/2007 19:54:55 So. As far as i can see ingame, theres 12001 shares. You state that each share is worth 10million shares. As far as im aware, 12001 * 10 = 120010 million(120bill!). You state that 4000 shares(40bill) will be sold, and you put in worth 2000 shares(20bill) from your own wallet. Fine. That makes 60bill, or 6000 shares. In your mailing list, you state: "The other 6001 shares are holding shares that were issued to the corp CEO. This is to ensure that no one makes a power play to try and steal the corporation assets using the voting system. In essence: total real shares are 6000, of which I have 2000. There are 6001 "virtual" shares that make sure I have control of votes." So actually you are getting 50% of all profit. Also the post just above me didnt seem to get his shares, or what was done in that case? Whats with all this? Seems like a major scam to me.
Miranda Duvall Gallente OPM Holdings	Posted - 2007.07.15 21:03:00 - [65] Shares recieved now My Skills -Invention HowTo
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.15 21:25:00 - [66] Originally by: Templer Relleg Edited by: Templer Relleg on 15/07/2007 19:54:55 So. As far as i can see ingame, theres 12001 shares. You state that each share is worth 10million shares. As far as im aware, 12001 * 10 = 120010 million(120bill!). You state that 4000 shares(40bill) will be sold, and you put in worth 2000 shares(20bill) from your own wallet. Fine. That makes 60bill, or 6000 shares. In your mailing list, you state: "The other 6001 shares are holding shares that were issued to the corp CEO. This is to ensure that no one makes a power play to try and steal the corporation assets using the voting system. In essence: total real shares are 6000, of which I have 2000. There are 6001 "virtual" shares that make sure I have control of votes." So actually you are getting 50% of all profit. Also the post just above me didnt seem to get his shares, or what was done in that case? Whats with all this? Seems like a major scam to me. First of all, please DONT get on here and accuse me of scamming when you just can't grasp the game mechanics. I keep a majority of shares on my CEO so that there is no way i will lose control of the corporation. It in no way affects payouts or anything else, you are making a big deal out of something that doesn't matter at all. Please rethink/revise your post. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.16 05:24:00 - [67] I want to make this perfectly clear, since there is some consternation about the share numbers and value. There is no way to differentiate between a voting share and a non-voting share in Eve. Because of this, anyone with any share in a corporation has the ability to try to take over a corporation. This investment is based off a 6000 share selloff, of which 2000 were purchased by me up front. Because there are 6000 shares floating around the public domain, I MUST retain 6001 shares on the CEO to ensure that I do not lose control of the corporation. Only the 6000 public shares hold any value. Dividend payouts will be made ONLY to the 6000 public shares. Nothing in the original IPO statement changes. The additional non-valued shares must exist due to the share tracking mechanic introduced in Rev 2. I want to clarify this one last time: 6000 public shares which will receive 100% of the divdend payout. 6001 non-valued shares in the hands of the corp CEO to ensure continued ownership of the corp. If you're interested in the game mechanics, the way that dividends will be issued is by taking the entire dividend, multiplying it by 2, and pushing it out that way. The income gained by the CEO during the dividend payout will go back into the corp wallet. Alternatively, the dividend can be paid out at 1x its amount and simply paid twice. AFAIK, every other dividend is paid out in this manor since Rev 2. I am sorry if this threw anyone for a loop, but please relax and have some faith in the plan that attracted you here in the first place. Do not overthink the math behind the shares, the bottom line is that I estimated at least a 15% return on investment, and that is what everyone should see. Hell, it may end up being even more as I just significantly reduced my operating costs. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Daimyo Brass	Posted - 2007.07.16 06:59:00 - [68] Hi Wylker I have a moderate investment in PSI and I have 2 wishes not to be scammed but also not to have my investment jeopardised by loss of confidence in the IPO. I recognise the logic in your explanation, it seems plausible to me. I have no experience of running an IPO so my faith in you is just that. Some calm please gentlemen. It would help if some other IPO managers of repute (you know who you are) could validate the game mechanic as described by Wylker. Glad to here production is online. Best wishes. DB
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.07.16 08:51:00 - [69] Originally by: Wylker I want to make this perfectly clear, since there is some consternation about the share numbers and value. There is no way to differentiate between a voting share and a non-voting share in Eve. Because of this, anyone with any share in a corporation has the ability to try to take over a corporation. This investment is based off a 6000 share selloff, of which 2000 were purchased by me up front. Because there are 6000 shares floating around the public domain, I MUST retain 6001 shares on the CEO to ensure that I do not lose control of the corporation. Only the 6000 public shares hold any value. Dividend payouts will be made ONLY to the 6000 public shares. Nothing in the original IPO statement changes. The additional non-valued shares must exist due to the share tracking mechanic introduced in Rev 2. I want to clarify this one last time: 6000 public shares which will receive 100% of the divdend payout. 6001 non-valued shares in the hands of the corp CEO to ensure continued ownership of the corp. If you're interested in the game mechanics, the way that dividends will be issued is by taking the entire dividend, multiplying it by 2, and pushing it out that way. The income gained by the CEO during the dividend payout will go back into the corp wallet. Alternatively, the dividend can be paid out at 1x its amount and simply paid twice. AFAIK, every other dividend is paid out in this manor since Rev 2. I am sorry if this threw anyone for a loop, but please relax and have some faith in the plan that attracted you here in the first place. Do not overthink the math behind the shares, the bottom line is that I estimated at least a 15% return on investment, and that is what everyone should see. Hell, it may end up being even more as I just significantly reduced my operating costs. Im not a game mechanics shark, so just out of curiosity since i also run an IPO. Is it even possible to create shares that have no value? Unless you pay out double each time, wont there also be paid out isk to those "non-value" shares? While i understand where you are comming from with this way of doing it, doesnt that also allows you to unlock bpo's? Surely that isnt good from a security reason. Dont get me wrong, im just curious, and you seem to know more about the game mechanics than me.
Rogue Vol	Posted - 2007.07.16 10:10:00 - [70] Edited by: Rogue Vol on 16/07/2007 10:11:29 Whenever someone asks about starting an IPO in this forum, the more experienced EVE businessmen and businesswomen always respond that the most important issue in doing an IPO is trust. There is a reason they say this, it's because it is true. Wylker Wants To Build Cap Ships ------------------------------- Wylker wants to build Cap ships, so he has three options- 1) Build using his own resources. He chose not to do this. 2) Invite his friends and corpmates, the people who already know and trust him, to invest in his new venture. He chose not to do this. 3) Invite strangers to invest in his venture by launching an IPO. This his what he chose to do. The IPO ------- So, Wylker enters into a business venture in which the most important issue is trust, and he is going to do this with people he does not know, and people who do not know him. The question becomes "How do strangers earn each other's trust?" My answer to this question is this- by sharing risks. If you throw two soldiers who do not know each other into a foxhole, when the enemy starts shooting at them, they find out quickly whether the other person can be trusted. The same is true of police officers and firefighters. Hell, it's even true of people who play silly online spaceship games together. If someone asks you to gang up and go ratting you will soon know if this person can be trusted. Wylker's IPO statement seemed to take this into account. Wylker would put in 20b in assets and receive 2000 shares. The investors would put in 40b ISK and receive 4000 shares. Wylker would control the ISK and the assets, the investors would control the vote. Wylker risked 20b that the investors would not vote him out, the investors risked 40b that Wylker would not steal their ISK. Shared risk, let the trust flow. Not So Fast My Friend --------------------- Turns out the IPO advertised was different than the IPO actually put into practice. Wylker issued himself 6001 additional shares on June 28th (two weeks before the IPO was announced). When asked about it he responded that he did not want to risk being voted out. He wants the investor to assume all the risk, while he assumes none. He now controls the ISK, the assets, AND the vote, while the investors control nothing. Wylker wants the investors to trust him implicitly without him having to risk anything to earn their trust. The investors are powerless to change this situation. Down, But Not Out ----------------- Someone is going to have to take a bullet for Team Investor and find out what kind of person Wylker really is. And since I got this started, it might as well be me. I bought 100 shares of PSI for $1bil ISK. Wylker, if you will check your wallet (not Researchi's) you will find that you now have 100 extra shares in there. I have returned my shares to you, and I ask that you return my $1bil ISK. Funny how you you didn't want to share risks with me but here we are sharing risks anyway. I risk $1bil ISK, you risk your reputation. I'll let everyone know how it turns out. RV
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.16 15:01:00 - [71] RV, I really wish you had just taken the opportunity to speak with me before deciding you didn't want to be involved, as I think you are still misunderstanding the situation. It is not about risk, it is about other people having the ability to completely steal the assets of the corporation. A weird vote could enable every isk of every investor to disappear over night. That being said, I will try to honor your request to refund your shares. This is something that I will need to discuss with you in-game, as there is no liquid capital to do it immediately. I will try to catch up with you tonight. In all reality, nothing has changed about my offering. Many people have vouched for my honesty and business dealings. Nothing has altered about how much a share is worth nor what the expected return will be. Frankly I think you are playing the devil's advocate for an argument that you do not fully understand, but I am also sure that you have placed yourself in a position where convincing you of something different is impossible. To the rest of my investors, please look at this objectively and feel confident that we're going to create a great return for everyone involved. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Templer Relleg Endgame.	Posted - 2007.07.16 15:14:00 - [72] Originally by: Wylker RV, I really wish you had just taken the opportunity to speak with me before deciding you didn't want to be involved, as I think you are still misunderstanding the situation. It is not about risk, it is about other people having the ability to completely steal the assets of the corporation. A weird vote could enable every isk of every investor to disappear over night. That being said, I will try to honor your request to refund your shares. This is something that I will need to discuss with you in-game, as there is no liquid capital to do it immediately. I will try to catch up with you tonight. In all reality, nothing has changed about my offering. Many people have vouched for my honesty and business dealings. Nothing has altered about how much a share is worth nor what the expected return will be. Frankly I think you are playing the devil's advocate for an argument that you do not fully understand, but I am also sure that you have placed yourself in a position where convincing you of something different is impossible. To the rest of my investors, please look at this objectively and feel confident that we're going to create a great return for everyone involved. But you failed to even prove his post wrong. To me it seems like hes right. I, for one, is not gonna invest before you fix those additional shares you made, which allows you to run off with all locked down BPO, without anything people can do. What are the chances that all shareholders votes you out as CEO, without a very good reason?
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.16 15:44:00 - [73] Edited by: Wylker on 16/07/2007 15:44:43 Originally by: Templer Relleg Originally by: Wylker RV, I really wish you had just taken the opportunity to speak with me before deciding you didn't want to be involved, as I think you are still misunderstanding the situation. It is not about risk, it is about other people having the ability to completely steal the assets of the corporation. A weird vote could enable every isk of every investor to disappear over night. That being said, I will try to honor your request to refund your shares. This is something that I will need to discuss with you in-game, as there is no liquid capital to do it immediately. I will try to catch up with you tonight. In all reality, nothing has changed about my offering. Many people have vouched for my honesty and business dealings. Nothing has altered about how much a share is worth nor what the expected return will be. Frankly I think you are playing the devil's advocate for an argument that you do not fully understand, but I am also sure that you have placed yourself in a position where convincing you of something different is impossible. To the rest of my investors, please look at this objectively and feel confident that we're going to create a great return for everyone involved. But you failed to even prove his post wrong. To me it seems like hes right. I, for one, is not gonna invest before you fix those additional shares you made, which allows you to run off with all locked down BPO, without anything people can do. What are the chances that all shareholders votes you out as CEO, without a very good reason? I'll tell you what, I'll go screw around on the test server. If I feel like I can eliminate those shares and not face the risk of 1 person ninja-voting 60 billion isk away then I'll get rid of them. However, if I go on vacation for a week and the possibility exists of someone walking off with all of the corp assets, then they will remain. However I want to make this 100% clear. Under NO circumstances will I put this corporation into a position where someone can pseudo-haxsploit the mechanics of share voting and literally walk off with 100% of the assets of the corp. I am honestly suprised that people would want anything different. I'll do a test tonight and get back to you guys. edit You guys should know that I am only paranoid about this because my old CEO basically scammed his entire old corp out of all of their assets using share voting. I've seen it done and will not be put into a position where it can happen to me and my investors. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.16 16:14:00 - [74] Originally by: LaVista Vista Im not a game mechanics shark, so just out of curiosity since i also run an IPO. Is it even possible to create shares that have no value? Unless you pay out double each time, wont there also be paid out isk to those "non-value" shares? You're on the right track Lavista. What you have to do is payout double and just put the payout back in the corp wallet from the character with the non-value shares. Alternatively, if you don't have the isk to do that, you just pay it singley but you do it twice. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.07.16 16:26:00 - [75] A few points about the "extra" shares. It's impossible for anyone outside of the corporation to initiate a vote on CEO change. That's (one reason) why many IPOs are run through "holdings" companies which have no members other than the IPO manager. If noone other than Wylker belongs to the corporation, then noone else can initiate a vote - and hence there's no need for extra shares. Once multiple people need access to the corporation then the issue of security begins to arise. In that circumstance the issue of extra shares can make extra sense - both as a security measure and also to guarantee that other votes (such as the locking/unlocking of BPOs) can be passed. If I were a potential investor (I'm not - I invest my ISK in my own ventures) then I wouldn't be unduly concerned by the existence of extra shares. If Wylker were intending to scam investors then he could do so without over-playing his hand by creating extra shares. My concern would be that the extra shares (and the mechanism by which they would be compensated for in dividend payments) were not properly disclosed in his initial post. I suspect that's down to a lack of knowledge (at the time) of how Eve shares work, rather than any intent to scam. I don't know Wylker, I've no intenion of investing in his IPO (or any other IPO at the moment) and I've no idea whether he's competent/trust-worthy or not. But the extra shares isn't a proper reason to form an opinion in either direction.
Ms PiggyPink	Posted - 2007.07.16 16:44:00 - [76] Edited by: Ms PiggyPink on 16/07/2007 16:44:57 damn alts...
Spanky McFarlan Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.16 16:47:00 - [77] I've known Wylker almost as long as I've been playing eve, under a year but for more than 6 months. He has been nothing but trustworthy and honest, which is why, when I made my first billion isk, I gave it to him. I was probably one of his first investors. If anything, this 6001 shares to the CEO (for security only) makes me more confident that my investment will remain securely in the hands of the person I gave it to. As far as risk, as with any investment there is risk, Wylker is removing a risk of the corp bpos falling out of his control. That in and of itself tells me he's no fool, knowns what he's doing, and is working his hardest to make cap ships for customers and profit for investors. If these '6001 holding shares' (that have no monetary value, who's sole purpose is to keep the person in control that we all gave our money to) is the deciding factor for people to remove their investment, they either don't understand how shares and corps work in eve, are confused by simple math... or are simply angry that their stupid plot to take over the corp, steal everyones investment along with the corp bpos just got wtfpwnd. Wylker, thanks for making my investment a little safer... I'll also say now, that as soon as I have my second billion, in a day or three, I will be buying a second 100 shares. Spanky McFarlan (not an alt) ------- sig under construction... but its gonna be cooler than yours.
Berand Shadow Of The Light R i s e	Posted - 2007.07.16 16:58:00 - [78] Originally by: Templer Relleg I, for one, is not gonna invest before you fix those additional shares you made, which allows you to run off with all locked down BPO, without anything people can do. If you don't trust the CEO not to run off with your isk, then you shouldn't be investing it in his IPO in the first place. This little thing with the additionally shares doesn't change that in the slightest. I don't have a lot of shares here, but this little spate seems irrelevant to me as long as he adjusts for paying out the dividends, which he has clearly explained how he is going to do.
Ender Darklight Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.16 21:52:00 - [79] I purchased 50 shs for 500Mil a few days ago with plans to buy 50 more if still available in the near future. I don't what to say other than Wylker is a good dude and wants to make sure this takes off and does well, for everyone. He also is trying to hedge possible issues in the future and stop hostile take overs. Either you trust it or ya don't. It's really that simple.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.17 02:29:00 - [80] Thanks to some generous contributions by other investors, I have repurchased RV's shares. I hope you can find something else that interests you, in the mean time: more shares for others :) Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Rogue Vol	Posted - 2007.07.17 04:34:00 - [81] Confirming Wylker's post, my ISK has been returned. My part in this is done. Best of luck to everyone involved. RV
LlamaOfPoon	Posted - 2007.07.17 09:21:00 - [82] So you want Wylker to own 20/60 of the company, leaving 2/3rd of the company in public hands? Fine. You want to invest? Excellent. You want some big-timer to buy 30.1bil isk of shares, vote the CEO out, take all the corp assets, take Wylker's 20bil and 10bil of public investment? Awesome. Wylker, dont listen to these dudes. If the mechanics of shares/corporations mean you need 50+% shares on CEO character, make it so. Smart. Risking the entire IPO because some stooges want to remove the security you have in place, and want to permit the possibility of hostile takeover? Dumb. I'll be investing some money in about a week if all goes well for me. :)
Block Ukx	Posted - 2007.07.17 12:10:00 - [83] Last time I checked, having the majority of shares will not prevent you from been removed as CEO or others removing locked BPOs. Here is an old thread. Block Ukx BSAC President
Fury Banker	Posted - 2007.07.17 12:24:00 - [84] Originally by: Block Ukx Last time I checked, having the majority of shares will not prevent you from been removed as CEO or others removing locked BPOs. Here is an old thread. Block Ukx BSAC President Correct - if you're not around to vote with the shares then they have no effect. Having the majority of shares does, however, guarantee that you can pass votes yourself.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.19 17:40:00 - [85] Of course, I would need to make sure that I was around to vote on any type of important issues, but I make sure I log on every day, and of course I have friends that are shareholders that would tell me if anything was awry. Anyway, after another strong week we have raised over 10 billion. Regular production should begin in another 7 days (Once ship BPOs come out of research). As of now, we have sold and delivered our first ship! Congratulations to everyone involved so far. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Astro Teller Milf Riders	Posted - 2007.07.20 02:00:00 - [86] posted in the buy thread too- but sent you 200mil for shares as outlined in buythread Milf Riders
DarkStar251	Posted - 2007.07.21 12:10:00 - [87] If you already hold 2000 of the 6000 IPO shares, meaning there are 4000 available for investment, why was it necessary to issue 6001 more rather than 2001 more, which combined with your own shares, would be over 50% of the total issued? Are the 2000 that are not available for purchase not held by you? Simply wishing to clarify :)
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.21 18:07:00 - [88] Originally by: DarkStar251 If you already hold 2000 of the 6000 IPO shares, meaning there are 4000 available for investment, why was it necessary to issue 6001 more rather than 2001 more, which combined with your own shares, would be over 50% of the total issued? Are the 2000 that are not available for purchase not held by you? Simply wishing to clarify :) While the 2000 shares that I hold would seem to be a lot, they are still not a majority. Also, those shares may eventually be sold on the open market. Essentially I wanted 6000 shares that are publicly held and that will be traded etc. Then there are 6001 non-valued, non-divident collecting, and non-tradable. These are of no use whatsoever except to maintain control of the corp. Hope that helps :) Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.07.21 18:35:00 - [89] Edited by: Ricdic on 21/07/2007 18:40:49 Only a director with shares inside your corporation can vote you out of CEO. The whole "I needed 50% to secure my corp" is complete rubbish. I don't deny that you believe this to be the case, but you are wrong. C-R-A is publically funded. I own 14% of the corporation through shares I have purchased myself. The remaining shares are used by the public to simply accept or decline votes. None of them can start a vote (unless they are a director within the corp) Point is, if you are parading your corporation as a 'secured investment' due to locked down bpo's, for as long as you hold those extra shares, that security banner you have been using is null and void as you recieve your god-mode status back. I don't know if you advertised your corp as such, but if you did, and people signed up under that false assumption, it would be only fair for you to offer them (as funds were available) a way to sell their shares back to you. It is misleading, and in a lot of cases can completely reverse someone's decision in investing in your operations. If you never said there was going to be any security, then it isn't really a major issue. edit: After a quick read through the first page or two of the IPO, I couldn't see anything in the business plan that would suggest or advise people of your intent to lock down bpo's. Therefore, my argument above this edit is null and void. Fly safe Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Ossa Ett	Posted - 2007.07.21 21:27:00 - [90] Posted on IPO Shares thread and sent 200mil ISK. No reply yet.
R3dSh1ft Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.22 10:35:00 - [91] How contingent is your plan on holding your 0.0 space? Because frankly its not worth investing if its at all a factor. DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 19:48:00 - [92] It's not contingent at all, as that would imply something that I have no way to guarantee. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Ossa Ett	Posted - 2007.07.23 11:05:00 - [93] Recieved shares.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.07.24 13:54:00 - [94] Heres an update on the IPO so far. As of right now, we have raised 10,890,000,000 isk through shares. With this capital, I have purchased the following component BPOs: Capital Armor Plates x2 Capital Capacitor Battery Capital Cargo Bay Capital Computer System Capital Construction Parts Capital Drone Bay Capital Sensor Cluster Capital Shield Emmitter x2 By supplanting some of the missing BPOs with BPCs, I have produced, sold, and delivered our first carrier! This early production was to ensure I knew what I was doing and could actually get a completed ship to pop out of production :) Anyway, thanks to everyone so far for investing, we're 1/4 sold out and need to keep going strong. So please tell your friends and corpmates if you think they'd be interested in investing. See everyone in space! Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Ender Darklight Caldari Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.07.25 11:16:00 - [95] I received my 50 shares.
Ion Halo	Posted - 2007.07.26 03:42:00 - [96] I have been following this IPO offering for a while now, and while the ROI % looks very good, the one thing staying my hand is the lack of confidence you sometimes project. The following statement causes me tremendous worry: Originally by: Wylker By supplanting some of the missing BPOs with BPCs, I have produced, sold, and delivered our first carrier! This early production was to ensure I knew what I was doing and could actually get a completed ship to pop out of production :) I see the smiley face at the end, but with almost 11 billion in investors' money, I would hope that you knew what you were doing in the first place. Even so, joking about it doesn't instill confidence in my decision to invest. While I appreciate your candor, I think boldness would be a better approach. I have no doubt that you would sell every single share quickly if you continued to reflect the strength of your business plan. How confident are you that investors will find themselves at the end of ROI's around 15%? I am still waiting to be convinced, and I am sure there are many more doing the same. I look forward to a response, and I thank you in advance for reading this subjectively as I have posted it as such.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:33:00 - [97] Originally by: Ion Halo I have been following this IPO offering for a while now, and while the ROI % looks very good, the one thing staying my hand is the lack of confidence you sometimes project. The following statement causes me tremendous worry: Originally by: Wylker By supplanting some of the missing BPOs with BPCs, I have produced, sold, and delivered our first carrier! This early production was to ensure I knew what I was doing and could actually get a completed ship to pop out of production :) I see the smiley face at the end, but with almost 11 billion in investors' money, I would hope that you knew what you were doing in the first place. Even so, joking about it doesn't instill confidence in my decision to invest. While I appreciate your candor, I think boldness would be a better approach. I have no doubt that you would sell every single share quickly if you continued to reflect the strength of your business plan. I look forward to a response, and I thank you in advance for reading this subjectively as I have posted it as such. While of course I can appreciate the concerns of anyone who is interested in investing, you should be aware that the odds are that I will continue to joke around and have a good time, while still trying to make the venture as successful as possible. If you're looking for a stuffed suit to invest with, you may need to look elsewhere, as that is in no way shape or form my style. However, please be assured that I am 100% confident of being successful, based off the months of speculation I had before starting the IPO. In all reality, knowing the theory and doing the deed are miles apart, and until I make a ship appear on an assembly line, I can not claim to "know" what I am doing. Which is why I did an experimental run on the first ship. Now I know! Quote: How confident are you that investors will find themselves at the end of ROI's around 15%? I am still waiting to be convinced, and I am sure there are many more doing the same. My projections for ROI are still on track. However, they are based on running at full production capacity (selling out the IPO). This will enable me to use the multiple revenue streams as well as economy of scale that my business plan is based on. We are growing step by step, and the quicker we can get to the end of the initial IPO the quicker we can see some truly spectacular results. Hope that helps! PS. My advice to everyone in business, be it in game or in real life: the day when you take it TOO seriously and forget what's important is the day you lose your ability to do what no one else can. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Ion Halo	Posted - 2007.07.26 19:37:00 - [98] Quote: PS. My advice to everyone in business, be it in game or in real life: the day when you take it TOO seriously and forget what's important is the day you lose your ability to do what no one else can. "....to do what no one else can?" What? In business, what exactly is important? You could answer with any of the following: Trust, results, purpose, community, environment, family, enjoyment, etc... The trump card my good sir, is money. And the day you tell me what's more important to me as an investor in you than me making money will be the day I tell you that you fell and bumped your head. We're all light hearted and good natured, but when it comes to giving you money, I think its just easier to give it to someone else who understands just how serious this is. Best of luck.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.07.27 02:08:00 - [99] Originally by: Ion Halo I think its just easier to give it to someone else who understands just how serious this is. Best of luck. It's really not that serious. I'm very good at what I do, I will have fun doing it because at the end of the day it's a game. What makes it fun for me is being very profitable in an industry where many people seem to think you can't be profitable. Feel free to invest elsewhere, but do it because they have a better plan, not because I refuse to be a "very serious internet spaceship IPO CEO". Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.07.27 07:31:00 - [100] Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Ion Halo I think its just easier to give it to someone else who understands just how serious this is. Best of luck. It's really not that serious. I'm very good at what I do, I will have fun doing it because at the end of the day it's a game. What makes it fun for me is being very profitable in an industry where many people seem to think you can't be profitable. Feel free to invest elsewhere, but do it because they have a better plan, not because I refuse to be a "very serious internet spaceship IPO CEO". This is not reall to troll or anything. But since i run a business very much like this, i thought i should join in on the discussion. I understand where Ion Halo is comming from. From my point of view, when you run an IPO, its not always about having fun. When you interact with investors and customers, its NOT about having fun. While i enjoy interacting with customers(Reason im doing this), i do not seek to have fun per say. Joking and that kind of stuff is often not whats really needed, unless you know customer very well. I have seen this several times, where people with major business simply scare people away, with trying to be funny, in a bad way. Tho that is my view on it.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.07.27 17:10:00 - [101] Originally by: LaVista Vista This is not really to troll or anything. But since i run a business very much like this, i thought i should join in on the discussion. I understand where Ion Halo is comming from. From my point of view, when you run an IPO, its not always about having fun. When you interact with investors and customers, its NOT about having fun. While i enjoy interacting with customers(Reason im doing this), i do not seek to have fun per say. Joking and that kind of stuff is often not whats really needed, unless you know customer very well. I have seen this several times, where people with major business simply scare people away, with trying to be funny, in a bad way. Tho that is my view on it. Saying it's not a troll post doesn't make it not a troll post. Anyway, you guys are arguing a point that has nothing to do with what is going on in this thread. I made a release TO MY INVESTORS that used humor. That doesn't imply in any way shape or form that I'm not serious, or that I'm not inclined to make this work. Frankly, the fact that you want to make an issue out of one line in a 4 page thread seems to show an amazing lack of sense on your part. Its like the string quartet playing as the Titanic was sinking. You're taking a detail that has nothing to do with me, or the IPO, or the investment, and forming opinions and making decisions based on that. It is your choice of course to do this, but posting this "you're not taking it seriously" is kind of a crappy thing to do, especially for people that are just clicking the end of the thread. If you want to discuss my business plan or my IPO feel free, but keep the trolling out please. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Ion Halo	Posted - 2007.07.27 17:37:00 - [102] Welcome to the world of public trading where confidence is king. My original post was as subjective as possible. Since I was on the fence about investing, it served as a probing post. Nothing 'troll' related at all. I got the answer I was looking for, made a sound decision, and yet you still feel the need to argue the point. I grow weary of people who would simply call a purposeful post 'trolling'. It is easier to do so than to respond with merit. It is in reality a great insult. I know LaVista might be a competitor, but his advice is sound and honest even if it is opinionated. In case anyone still does not understand what trolling means, I would recommend this quick read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll Wylker, I do not doubt your ability in industry. My doubts lay elsewhere. To anyone interested in this IPO, I would read this gentleman's business plan to see the competence he has displayed, and not to make any decisions based on the results of my probing. This thread is here for a reason, so utilize it and make your own decision. Good luck to all involved.
VinceNoir Amarr The Rapture	Posted - 2007.07.27 18:22:00 - [103] Originally by: Ion Halo OMGZ NO I WUSNT BEING SERIOUS IT WAS A TEST LOL Originally by: "Shanda Captison" Vince, you can't even spell ECM m8
Ion Halo	Posted - 2007.07.27 18:53:00 - [104] Originally by: VinceNoir Originally by: Ion Halo OMGZ NO I WUSNT BEING SERIOUS IT WAS A TEST LOL i c whut u did ther?
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.07.27 20:32:00 - [105] Originally by: Ion Halo Welcome to the world of public trading where confidence is king. My original post was as subjective as possible. Since I was on the fence about investing, it served as a probing post. Nothing 'troll' related at all. I got the answer I was looking for, made a sound decision, and yet you still feel the need to argue the point. I grow weary of people who would simply call a purposeful post 'trolling'. It is easier to do so than to respond with merit. It is in reality a great insult. I know LaVista might be a competitor, but his advice is sound and honest even if it is opinionated. In case anyone still does not understand what trolling means, I would recommend this quick read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll Wylker, I do not doubt your ability in industry. My doubts lay elsewhere. To anyone interested in this IPO, I would read this gentleman's business plan to see the competence he has displayed, and not to make any decisions based on the results of my probing. This thread is here for a reason, so utilize it and make your own decision. Good luck to all involved. I wasn't really referring to your post as trolling as much as the +1 post. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Jin Shugo Caldari HOMELESS. Band of Bums	Posted - 2007.07.27 21:11:00 - [106] scam. send me your iskies. JS
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.07.28 15:26:00 - [107] Originally by: Jin Shugo scam. send me your iskies. JS Oh noz, the bums are invading my IPO! Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Van Ketwich	Posted - 2007.07.28 23:52:00 - [108] Originally by: LaVista Vista Edited by: LaVista Vista on 27/07/2007 07:49:29 From my point of view, when you run an IPO, its not always about having fun. When you interact with investors and customers, its NOT about having fun. I couldn't disagree with you more LaVista, and if your statement is truly the case I would never even consider investing in any IPO of yours. If Wylker had come out all business and clearly not making fun a priority, I wouldn't have invested in his either. Eve is a game. People play it to have fun. I don't expect someone I'm working with in the game to treat it like a job. That's just a recipe for loosing all your isk when the person running the IPO gives up and quits. So, as one of the investors here, albeit a small one I'm sure, I say please carry on as you have been. :) Van Ketwich
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.07.29 10:56:00 - [109] Originally by: Van Ketwich Originally by: LaVista Vista Edited by: LaVista Vista on 27/07/2007 07:49:29 From my point of view, when you run an IPO, its not always about having fun. When you interact with investors and customers, its NOT about having fun. I couldn't disagree with you more LaVista, and if your statement is truly the case I would never even consider investing in any IPO of yours. If Wylker had come out all business and clearly not making fun a priority, I wouldn't have invested in his either. Eve is a game. People play it to have fun. I don't expect someone I'm working with in the game to treat it like a job. That's just a recipe for loosing all your isk when the person running the IPO gives up and quits. So, as one of the investors here, albeit a small one I'm sure, I say please carry on as you have been. :) Van Ketwich While i get your point, but the point of interacting with investors and customers is because you gain something from it. You arent there to entertain the both of you. Its not because you cant have fun. I enjoy talking to investors and customers. But its not because i make jokes or anything. I guess the difference from one to another in this matter, is how you have fun. One might need to make jokes, or do other stuff, to have fun. But why i enjoy this as much as i do, is the interaction with other people, which you wont get if you just do mindless pvp, or do trading all alone. My point you quoted states that not everything about an IPO is fun. Many IPO's turned scam, because the owner got bored. This is clearly an evidence that it can get boring. And i guess another point was that you are to keep a serious conversation with strangers, who might not know you. Sadly from my experience(Having actually talked to guys from alot of different scams), they were always using jokes and making fun. Theres 1 exception, who closed down in a good way. But the rest pretty much just ran off with all the stuff. Im not saying that this is a scam, as i believe that your gonna do some great stuff. But your attitude is important when you talk to people.
Ender Darklight Caldari Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.01 22:55:00 - [110] I for one am happy with my investment. I put 500M into this and I know Wylker is a stand up guy. The fact that he knows how to have fun proves why I like him so much. People who take this game serious to the point of "not" enjoying aspects because of A, B or C tend to be the ones that get burnt out and either take the money and run or just quit. Now where is that "Troll Begone" spray... Ah there it is.
Astro Teller Milf Riders	Posted - 2007.08.01 23:46:00 - [111] I too would like to say that as an investor in many IPOs this one holds a lot of promise. Not because of the business plan- but because of the reputation walker has. Even if things go south and the bad man comes- I know that Walker would sell assets and divey up whats left in a fair manner. You can't say that for others. Astro Teller
Hexxx Minmatar ironwood ink The Sundering	Posted - 2007.08.01 23:49:00 - [112] Investors should care principally about the key benchmarks of an investment (in no paticular order): 1.) Do the numbers in the reports instill confidence? 2.) Is the plan solid and achievable? 3.) Is the manager competent? Google's IPO included wording of "don't do evil" and if you've ever read any of Warren Buffet's memos I recommend you do...they're actually rather entertaining. =) Bottom line is; judge a manager on how he manages and the numbers that he puts out. If the plan is solid, being followed properly, and no fatal flaws are occuring than all is well. Steve Jobs wears jeans and a turtleneck at Apple press events, not a dress shirt and tie. It's important to remember to focus on the MATERIAL significance of things and not items that fall under the category of "superficial". However, with all of that said, it ultimately comes down to the individual investor and their own point of view. Hexxx LLP - Business Consulting Services - IPO's, Business Plans, Share/Stock Pricing, and general Consulting.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.08.04 00:15:00 - [113] Thanks for the spirited discussion guys, but everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and I try to respect them all. I hope people that have invested so far are confident, because I sure am :) Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.08.11 16:45:00 - [114] Around 2500 shares remaining, I should be able to begin production after 500 of those have sold. So investors, hopefully we'll see our first dividend in around 45 days. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.08.15 15:07:00 - [115] A bit of a slow week for share sales, 2,476 remaining. Tell your friends to buy some :P Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Gryffonia O.M.N.I.	Posted - 2007.08.15 18:18:00 - [116] Well constructed business plan. Plus all my fears have been answered. Confirming 3 shares bought. Good luck Nerf No. 1. Please keep your signature below the 24000 bytes limit.- Thx Pirlouit Fly Safe
Meleil	Posted - 2007.08.16 08:20:00 - [117] Your IPO seems sound and you've got a goodly bit of positive feedback along with the normal negative. I have purchased 100 shares. Good luck mate :D ~Mel
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.08.18 12:16:00 - [118] how's this going so far? just a sidenote - with ricdic's ebank going live (soon it seems), would you be thinking of partnering with them? i.e. offering discounts to bank customers?
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.08.18 17:26:00 - [119] I've paid for 100 shares. I'll post here again once I've received them. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.08.18 19:13:00 - [120] Edited by: Wylker on 18/08/2007 19:13:47 Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd how's this going so far? just a sidenote - with ricdic's ebank going live (soon it seems), would you be thinking of partnering with them? i.e. offering discounts to bank customers? Going well, I am hoping to do our first dividend payout in around 40 days. This week has seen some good share sales, so I nearly have enough capital to engage in stand alone production. On the bank thing - I haven't really looked into the EBank, so I can't answer for now. However, I will always be open to opportunities that allow me to grow this business as well as attract customers. Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I've paid for 100 shares. I'll post here again once I've received them. You should receive them tonight :) Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Researchi Minmatar Portsmouth Shipyards Inc	Posted - 2007.08.20 19:22:00 - [121] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I've paid for 100 shares. I'll post here again once I've received them. Sent them a while ago, I assume you've seen them and just forgot you were going to post Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.08.20 21:25:00 - [122] It's just as well I didn't mention any specific deadline for posting, then My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.08.20 22:46:00 - [123] Edited by: Ezoran DuBlaidd on 20/08/2007 22:46:36 Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I forgot, oops. fixed.
Anton March Mortis Angelus	Posted - 2007.08.21 01:11:00 - [124] Shares recieved. Now don't the rest of you guys go and buy them all out before I get the cash to pick up more
Ender Darklight Caldari Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.22 23:40:00 - [125] Cant wait to get the dividend on 50 shs, woot. signature removed (max size 24000 bytes)and not in good taste - please email us (with the signature URL) if you want to know why - Pirlouit([email protected])
Ghost Emperor Amarr EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.23 16:26:00 - [126] Hi PSI I have sent an eve mail with a few questions. I will try and cut and paste here but I was in game so did it that way. Visit the EvE Galactic Stock Exchange in game or out EMFI Blog is available here: Linky http://emfi.blogspot.com/
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.08.28 15:42:00 - [127] We're over half sold out now. Thanks so much to all investors so far. I'm looking forward to starting production and selling out the rest of the IPO. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus	Posted - 2007.08.31 14:42:00 - [128] Are there shares still available?
Vulture Virtue Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.08.31 19:11:00 - [129] Wylker tells me there are still shares available. And friendly bump.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.08.31 22:13:00 - [130] There are still shares remaining. Just in case anyone is looking for me, I have a fairly busy family weekend ahead of me, so I may be incommunicado until Monday. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Thaere	Posted - 2007.09.01 02:18:00 - [131] Edited by: Thaere on 01/09/2007 02:20:07 Nvm
Thaere	Posted - 2007.09.01 02:21:00 - [132] Edited by: Thaere on 01/09/2007 02:22:37 I am interested in buying 20 shares, depending on numbers left I would consider buying more too. Please let me know how many are left :) Contact Letias
Calladen Nimitz Caldari Sovereign Enterprises	Posted - 2007.09.01 05:34:00 - [133] I'll take a chance on this one it looks like a good business plan and even in a competitive market those with business sense seem to always come out ahead of those who do things half way. I'll take 10 shares for 100m isk total and send the isk tomorrow morning. Calladen SOVEREIGN ENTERPRISES WEBPAGE AND FORUMS
Ethaet Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.01 11:19:00 - [134] reserving 10 shares. will send isk after dt. ----- CONCORD Notice: Don't drink and fly. Drunken jumping can result in loss of ship through "navigational error". Seems familiar?
Asriel Grumman Hi-Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.09.04 19:20:00 - [135] Shares received thank you. Please reserve the previously mentioned number until cash is freed up. How many do you still have? Visit EvE Galactic Stock Exchange and Real-time Eve Stock Exchange (in game or out, but trades in game)
Ghost Emperor Amarr EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.04 19:20:00 - [136] Daft default, it must have reset, the above character is me Visit EvE Galactic Stock Exchange and Real-time Eve Stock Exchange (in game or out, but trades in game)
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.09.06 22:31:00 - [137] Approx 940 shares avail. Sorry I've been a bit afk this week, had family in town and crazy week at work. Will get caught up with some good production time frame info this weekend. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.09.08 06:26:00 - [138] Lots of activity today. 765 shares total remaining, but 125 have been reserved. Thanks for all the interest this week, we're almost there! Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Ghost Emperor Amarr EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.09 16:29:00 - [139] Another order has been sent thanks :) Well done on starting production Visit EvE Galactic Stock Exchange and Real-time Eve Stock Exchange (in game or out, but trades in game)
Vulture Virtue Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.09.13 15:05:00 - [140] Bump for a good cause.
Anton March Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2007.09.13 17:25:00 - [141] I wanted to pick up more of these, but replacing my poor departed Chimera took up the cash I had put away. With any luck I'll have another couple hundred mil ready before they all sell out.
ZeeWolf Asguard Security Service Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.09.13 18:00:00 - [142] Are there any shares remaining? and how much per share?
Asriel Grumman Minmatar Hi-Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.09.13 23:20:00 - [143] Hope you can give an update soon, hoping you receive all the required isk for full throttle production :) Free bump and all that as well
Scythus Aratan The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.09.14 15:27:00 - [144] Sent cash for 10 shares, will post when received.
Shell Salopa	Posted - 2007.09.15 02:13:00 - [145] Edited by: Shell Salopa on 15/09/2007 02:15:34 Blarg posted with the wrong character >.<
Kesslan Osefice Panther's Paw Industries Ltd	Posted - 2007.09.15 02:16:00 - [146] 60M sent for 6 shares. Will update post when shares are delivered.
Xaun Hoarder	Posted - 2007.09.15 12:23:00 - [147] 50 mil sent for 6 shares
Saphert Kronitius	Posted - 2007.09.16 03:08:00 - [148] I'd like to invest in this. Are there any shares left?
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.09.16 05:00:00 - [149] Originally by: Saphert Kronitius I'd like to invest in this. Are there any shares left? I received my shares 4 days ago, but haven't seen a post from Wylker to update shares remaining since then. Judging from the posts in this and the sales thread, I'd guess he's very nearly sold out the IPO, or even potentially oversold it if people have sent him isk without posting their purchases. Looking forward to an update on this. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Vulture Virtue Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.09.16 18:08:00 - [150] From the in game mailing list: Quote: 2007.09.16 17:17 A quick status update. Last week we entered into our first phase of production. I am mass producting and stockpiling capital components and should have ships bulit and sold by the end of September. As far as the IPO is concerned, as of right now there are 174 shares left, and 100 of them have been reserved and should be purchased by this time tomorrow. That means that we're within 75 shares of completely selling out the IPO. I have to admit we are going to sell out much faster than I expected, which is great news. I am still looking for people to provide me with mineral contracts. I want to make it a win-win situation for this corporation and the hard working mining corporation that chooses to do business with me. If you know of any individuals or corporations that mine a lot of mins and would like a reliable purchaser of those minerals please have them contact me. Once again, thanks for all the support, I look forward to sending everyone some isk soon!
Scythus Aratan The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.09.16 18:58:00 - [151] I have recieved my shares.
Saphert Kronitius	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:44:00 - [152] I have received my shares as well.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.09.16 20:56:00 - [153] I just finalized the last transaction, as of now we are 100% sold! Congratulations to all the investors, and thank you to everyone that is involved. Now its time for me to make something happen with all your isk. I will post monthly updates here, but will primarily communicate through the in game mailing list. Thanks again! Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Ghost Emperor Amarr EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.16 21:57:00 - [154] Congrats on selling all your stock and I hope your plans work out well, GL Visit EvE Galactic Stock Exchange and Real-time Eve Stock Exchange (in game or out, but trades in game)
Adhar Khorin Amarr Portsmouth Defense Industries	Posted - 2007.09.19 21:30:00 - [155] Originally by: Wylker If you want to participate, please be careful to whom you send isk. There is not only a copycat character named Researchii, but a copycat corp named Portsmouth Shipyards (without the Inc.) that some Sylph Alliance person made. Not that either of these are attempts at scamming, but the names are close enough where people could have a problem. Please double check before sending isk that you've typed it correctly. I founded Portsmouth Shipyards in June of 2006. Having since moved on to new ventures, I can emphatically state that I have no involvement or investment in this venture. I'm not in game at the moment, but I believe that Portsmouth Shipyards (Inc) was founded after June of 2006, so my (former) corporation would not properly be termed a copy-cat. Best of Luck to you, Wylker. Sincerely, Adhar Khorin Founder and former CEO of Portsmouth Shipyards, now closed. Founder and Current CEO of Porstmouth Defense Industries.
Poison House of Kobal	Posted - 2007.09.20 04:49:00 - [156] I guess I sent you some isk after u sold out could you check and conferm this and if so could i get a refund please.
Nicho Void Gallente Hyper-Nova	Posted - 2007.09.20 14:43:00 - [157] Congrats on selling out! Good luck in the venture. ---------------
Trading Bunnz ElArms International	Posted - 2007.10.01 14:52:00 - [158] Quote: Posted - 2007.08.18 19:13:00 - [120] - ....Going well, I am hoping to do our first dividend payout in around 40 days..... Just curious if you are still on track for that? Sorry if you posted this to the mailing list, I was late subscribing to it. :)
Nicho Void Gallente Hyper-Nova	Posted - 2007.10.05 03:56:00 - [159] /me watches tumbleweed. ---------------
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:38:00 - [160] Originally by: Nicho Void /me watches tumbleweed. Also not thrilled, and growing increasingly less confident with this investment. I'm not going to be alarmist for another few weeks, but the lack of communication from Wylker in his own in-game mailing list sucks. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.10.09 21:28:00 - [161] Guys, chill out :) I never promised overnight success. The fund raising is done, and now the actual hard work of making that isk turn into lots more isk begins. I am doing some mass production of components, trying to balance costs vs. the stupid mineral speculation that is going on because of rev3, and trying to open new avenues of business in order to reach my return goal ASAP. Expecting me to update every day or even every few days is just unrealistic. I will continue to inform everyone of any major/important events, as well as monthly financial reports. I will also endeavor to answer any questions posted here or in the mailing list. But in general, just relax and everything will turn out ok Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.10 03:53:00 - [162] Originally by: Wylker I am doing some mass production of components.. and trying to open new avenues of business in order to reach my return goal ASAP. Originally by: Wylker 4) Estimated Earnings Earnings will come from two revenue streams. The first will be the production and sale of capital class ships including carriers, dreadnaughts, and freighters. The second stream will be through the research and sale of capital component blueprint copies, to be made and sold as available. Quote: 2007.09.16 17:17 A quick status update. Last week we entered into our first phase of production. I am mass producting and stockpiling capital components and should have ships bulit and sold by the end of September. What have you been doing the last month. And didnt you have other avenues planned already? Talking to you on egsex, i understood that you had other secret ways? Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.10.10 05:42:00 - [163] Quote: Expecting me to update every day or even every few days is just unrealistic. Nobody heard anything from you for 3 weeks, including two weeks of "hello, anybody home?" inquiries in your mailing list. Suggesting that anyone has asked for a daily update makes for a rather pathetic deflection of the responsibility you assumed to your investors when you opened this to the public. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.10 06:03:00 - [164] Originally by: Kitex Quote: Expecting me to update every day or even every few days is just unrealistic. Nobody heard anything from you for 3 weeks, including two weeks of "hello, anybody home?" inquiries in your mailing list. Suggesting that anyone has asked for a daily update makes for a rather pathetic deflection of the responsibility you assumed to your investors when you opened this to the public. Ill have to second this. The least you can do is to just write "Im out for the next 3 weeks" or whatever. Im going on holiday by christmas. I already announced this, to create no confusion. This i think is good standard to work after. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Trading Bunnz ElArms International	Posted - 2007.10.16 05:34:00 - [165] Originally by: Trading Bunnz Quote: Posted - 2007.08.18 19:13:00 - [120] - ....Going well, I am hoping to do our first dividend payout in around 40 days..... Just curious if you are still on track for that? Sorry if you posted this to the mailing list, I was late subscribing to it. :) Just in case you missed my earlier post, which you obviously did. Equally obvious, you are no longer "on track" for that 40 days from 18/8 dividend payment, given its now been 60 days. Can you please advise when you expect dividends to be paid? Cheers :)
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.10.16 18:37:00 - [166] Originally by: Wylker I am doing some mass production of components, trying to balance costs vs. the stupid mineral speculation that is going on because of rev3, and trying to open new avenues of business in order to reach my return goal ASAP. Cost of mineral's and how the market swing you just need to adjust to. That applies for all builders out there. Back in the first page of this thread I did sort of warn you about work/effort vs returns on cap production. Will take a long time to recover the cost of all those prints consider build times and market prices. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.10.22 16:50:00 - [167] Originally by: Ruffio Sepico Originally by: Wylker I am doing some mass production of components, trying to balance costs vs. the stupid mineral speculation that is going on because of rev3, and trying to open new avenues of business in order to reach my return goal ASAP. Cost of mineral's and how the market swing you just need to adjust to. That applies for all builders out there. Back in the first page of this thread I did sort of warn you about work/effort vs returns on cap production. Will take a long time to recover the cost of all those prints consider build times and market prices. I agree with you, however reacting to the normal evolution of mineral prices is not the same as getting screwed into billions of isk work of minerals that are only going to be inflated for 45 days. All that will do is screw over months of profits. I know this is the internet and everyone has the right to express their concern etc. but holy crap folks calm down. I am working hard to make money for all of us. I'm sorry that it's not happening as fast as I had hoped but it'll come, just be patient. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.10.22 16:52:00 - [168] As a continuation, please notice that my original IPO called for payouts to being 60 days AFTER full production completed. I did not even sell out the IPO until 9/16/07. After that I had prints in research for nearly 30 days. Even now I am not running at full production due to the increase in mineral prices. That being said, even if on day 1 I was at 100% capacity there would still not have been a payout until 11/16/07, which is nearly a month away still. I really want to balance being respectful of my investors and answering concerns with trying to deal with every single impatient inquiry but some people are making it truly difficult not to just lash out and tell them to shut the bleep up. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.10.23 00:07:00 - [169] Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Ruffio Sepico Originally by: Wylker I am doing some mass production of components, trying to balance costs vs. the stupid mineral speculation that is going on because of rev3, and trying to open new avenues of business in order to reach my return goal ASAP. Cost of mineral's and how the market swing you just need to adjust to. That applies for all builders out there. Back in the first page of this thread I did sort of warn you about work/effort vs returns on cap production. Will take a long time to recover the cost of all those prints consider build times and market prices. I agree with you, however reacting to the normal evolution of mineral prices is not the same as getting screwed into billions of isk work of minerals that are only going to be inflated for 45 days. All that will do is screw over months of profits. I know this is the internet and everyone has the right to express their concern etc. but holy crap folks calm down. I am working hard to make money for all of us. I'm sorry that it's not happening as fast as I had hoped but it'll come, just be patient. After they removed the artificial ceiling on trit that coupling arrays gave, I think we will see high trit prices for a good time. This just lead to less profit for the builders and with the competition prices on cap ships not likely to go up either. Now it seems CCP want to screw us over too with the proposed changes. Anyways, I got no shares or stakes in your IPO. Good luck though, I dont envy your work/stress -) Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.23 03:22:00 - [170] Wylker understand where the public is coming from. If you have difficulties, advise your investors of it. Keep us updated. Going silent for over a month the second you get what you want is not a good idea and even now I question how wise it was investing in you (Ricdic, not EBANK). Sure, you may meet the stated returns, but I want someone who speaks to their investors, not ignores them or treats them poorly (read: see what you called them above)
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.10.23 05:45:00 - [171] Originally by: Wylker That being said, even if on day 1 I was at 100% capacity there would still not have been a payout until 11/16/07, which is nearly a month away still. I really want to balance being respectful of my investors and answering concerns with trying to deal with every single impatient inquiry but some people are making it truly difficult not to just lash out and tell them to shut the bleep up. And from your post dated 8.18.07: Quote: Going well, I am hoping to do our first dividend payout in around 40 days. Sounds like you've had a rough time making up your own mind on when dividends would be paid. Then you get indignant when people actually expect dividends paid toward the end of September, as you advised they would be. Drama Queen. I was ready to back off for awhile after you finally made your lame effort at answering the most basic of questions in your in game mailing list, even though I had to bait you to do that. But your attitude is really too much. Your excuses are pathetic. Ships should have been rolling off the line and selling at least a month ago. You need to save your weeping about mineral prices for someone who isn't collecting reliable dividends from 2 other capital ship investments. If cap ship production is the dog you say it is, use your damned imagination and find other avenues to profit for your investors. You've mismanaged this. I'm selling 50 shares in an investment that I believe is just 1 level above a mountain of steaming horse crap in desirability, at a loss if necessary. Contact me in game if interested. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.23 08:48:00 - [172] I doubt that Wylker read the market essenstial threads(Its even stickied). Theres a fantastic post which he either didnt read, or didnt understand. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=371833 Im worried with the lack of communication. And the general lies which seem to have been thrown about. The lack of communcation and consistency thereof is disturbing at best. What makes me wonder, is how you seem to be able to vanish for even WEEKS without advising so. Yet over at screapheap challenge, you have an average of 11 posts per day. How can SCH be more important than your investors? They have put billions into your doings. Show them some respect. This is very concerning. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Azeusus Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.23 11:26:00 - [173] Edited by: Azeusus on 23/10/2007 11:26:17 I am aint in this for much longer.... understand people need to be patient but please dont whine about min prices, post a regular ie time and date each week update so people know of progress. Improvements in customer handling need to be seen or im selling up and moving to invest elsewhere.
Daeva Vios PhaseShifter Technologies	Posted - 2007.10.23 12:03:00 - [174] All people want is more communication. I don't see why you, Wylker, are getting ****ed off about that. It's our money, we deserve to know what you're doing with it.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.24 04:17:00 - [175] Err, I'm sorry I didn't realize I was coming across pissed or whining about mineral prices. My above points were that: 1) I am still working 2) I will provide info as often as I can 3) My original plan to pay early dividends did not work out 4) Calm down I'd post more, but I'm basically just getting trolled at this point. All I can say is that I'm trying to make money for everyone, if it's not coming as fast as you had envisioned or I hoped, well, we'll just have to see how it goes. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.24 04:20:00 - [176] Originally by: Wylker Err, I'm sorry I didn't realize I was coming across pissed or whining about mineral prices. My above points were that: 1) I am still working 2) I will provide info as often as I can 3) My original plan to pay early dividends did not work out 4) Calm down I'd post more, but I'm basically just getting trolled at this point. All I can say is that I'm trying to make money for everyone, if it's not coming as fast as you had envisioned or I hoped, well, we'll just have to see how it goes. Public investors can be a fickle bunch, nothing wrong with that. Communication is a big thing though...keeping them updated on things and being transparent is the best way to gain their favor. Anyway, best of luck. Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.10.24 04:33:00 - [177] While your P.R. efforts continue to leave me somewhat speechless, I'm going to give you the breathing room you're looking for and not say another word on this until this time next month. This is partly because I don't believe you ever entered into this with bad intentions, nor do I believe you have them now. Mostly though, it's because nobody offered me anything for my shares anyway. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Titus Lewis Viziam	Posted - 2007.10.25 03:30:00 - [178] I'll buy your Portsmouth shares for 2.5M if you are seriously looking to dump them. Freedom is Slavery
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.09 18:52:00 - [179] We have had several people go to EGSEX now, and ask if they should write their shares off as a loss or not. What do you think Wylker? You care to give an update(By your SHC standards, you should be able to post 12 times a day), or are we gonna get the same "STFU, IM WORKING LULZ" answer? Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.09 19:52:00 - [180] Communication communication communication, it all comes down to that. That's the difference between the great IPO's and the ones that get lots of complaints. As to the problems Wylker seems to be having turning a profit, if we all turn back to page 1 of this thread Ionia asked right away if it was smart getting into capital production when this IPO started. The same was asked of LV. Now both of these IPO's have had problems earning the profits they hoped to. Investors can't hold Wylker responsible for poor performance as they were the ones choosing to invest in a capital production IPO when they were warned about it being a shaky time to do so. They can, however, hold him responsible for poor communication and not spending enough time working for them. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
NobodyOfAnyImportance	Posted - 2007.11.09 19:56:00 - [181] No communication.. that sounds familiar.. I wonder what alliance most of the people in Phyrrus Sicarii used to be in ;)
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.09 20:29:00 - [182] Originally by: Shadarle Communication communication communication, it all comes down to that. That's the difference between the great IPO's and the ones that get lots of complaints. As to the problems Wylker seems to be having turning a profit, if we all turn back to page 1 of this thread Ionia asked right away if it was smart getting into capital production when this IPO started. Thats indeed true. But at least i was open about this, paid out anyways, and didnt whine about mineral prices making it harder Anyone wanna take bets on how long it will take for Wylker to respond in here? Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.09 23:39:00 - [183] I still assume good faith on Wylker's part, so in the worst case scenario he now has rather a lot of capital ship/component BPOs that have depreciated somewhat in value, and it'll take a while to liquidate them, for a moderate loss, but against that we can set the profit from the 1 carrier sold. Also, if there are components lying around that he can't profitably use, they can be reprocessed. I don't think writing off the shares as a loss makes sense just yet (not that we have any idea of what his inventory is like - FastLearner does a much better job). Perhaps it might be time to try switching to freighter/Rorqual production? There's been a buff on the test server and the latter can now haul more than 125k m^3. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.10 00:49:00 - [184] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I still assume good faith on Wylker's part, so in the worst case scenario he now has rather a lot of capital ship/component BPOs that have depreciated somewhat in value, and it'll take a while to liquidate them, for a moderate loss, but against that we can set the profit from the 1 carrier sold. Also, if there are components lying around that he can't profitably use, they can be reprocessed. I don't think writing off the shares as a loss makes sense just yet (not that we have any idea of what his inventory is like - FastLearner does a much better job). Perhaps it might be time to try switching to freighter/Rorqual production? There's been a buff on the test server and the latter can now haul more than 125k m^3. I asume incompetence on his part, not good faith. Smae thing as I assume on CAP4U. Both started cap-ship production when anyone with a clue said it was a silly idea. At the time I rated Wylker's venture as the better of the two - I was wrong about that. Neither's working, neither seems to have any intention of refunding shareholders (a common fault in Eve - IPO launchers who fail believe they were given some god-given mandate to look after ISK even after whatever their abortive plan was failed). At least La Vista still hangs around and posts reasons why he shouldn't just hand the money back having failed. Wykler hasn't even the courage (front) to manage that. No doubt eventually he'll blame his lack of response on the criticism he got (taking a page from ISSO's book) rather than just admit he was plain wrong in the first place. Yes I've had a few beers. No, I don't care who I offend. Ye.s anyone who opened a cap-ship IPO after it was obvious the market was collapsing desreves approbation (seems like the right word when I've had a few beers but could be totally wrong). Thanks for the compliment (I think) Kazuo. I wouldn't swap to freighter/rorqual production though - I think freighter BPC production will pay more than making the actual ships in the short/medium term.
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.10 01:08:00 - [185] Originally by: FastLearner I asume incompetence on his part, not good faith. Smae thing as I assume on CAP4U.Yes anyone who opened a cap-ship IPO after it was obvious the market was collapsing desreves approbation Sure, but one could call it incompetence for a bank owner to loan himself half the funds the bank has and then lose a mothership as well could they not?
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.10 01:30:00 - [186] Edited by: FastLearner on 10/11/2007 01:30:06 Originally by: Ricdic's Hoe Originally by: FastLearner I asume incompetence on his part, not good faith. Smae thing as I assume on CAP4U.Yes anyone who opened a cap-ship IPO after it was obvious the market was collapsing desreves approbation Sure, but one could call it incompetence for a bank owner to loan himself half the funds the bank has and then lose a mothership as well could they not? If that owner had no other assets or source of income, definitely yes. Similarly someone could consider it incompetence if someone running a bank either: 1) Claimed all directors were actively participating then next day sacked two for non-particpance. 2) Claimed 15 billion was maximum investment allowed for security reasons then changed it to a minimum of 15 billion, 3) Stated no identites of users would be given out then gave out not just every user's name but also their password. 4) Claimed the bank's target was 15% return on secured investment then next day claimed to have invested in an unsecured 8% return investment with the bank's funds. But we're talking hypothetically, yes?
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.10 01:35:00 - [187] most of your points are wrong but I will refrain in the intererests of keeping this thread from going off-topic. I actually posted what I did, and then had a shower and decided to come back and remove the post as i found it inappropriate. I will remove it anyway, so you are free to remove your quoting of it as well if you choose
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.10 01:38:00 - [188] Originally by: Ricdic's Hoe most of your points are wrong but I will refrain in the intererests of keeping this thread from going off-topic. I actually posted what I did, and then had a shower and decided to come back and remove the post as i found it inappropriate. I will remove it anyway, so you are free to remove your quoting of it as well if you choose I'll leave mine up, as we were only talking hypothetically.
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.10 01:45:00 - [189] well what I posted was fact was it not? Did you loan half (give or take) the funds in the bank, and then lose them? Yes or no?
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.10 01:48:00 - [190] Edited by: FastLearner on 10/11/2007 01:48:55 Originally by: Ricdic's Hoe well what I posted was fact was it not? Did you loan half (give or take) the funds in the bank, and then lose them? Yes or no? Oh dear, we're moving away from hypothetically. You sure you want to go there? EDIT: This could be amusing - get the popcorn out guys.
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.10 02:05:00 - [191] Was tempted to start a new thread, but I suspect the owener of this one won't be posting in a rush so we can at least provide some interesting bumps. Warning: The next exchange of posts may cause investors to want to withdraw their savings from Fury Bank and/or their loose change from EBank. Withdrawals from Fury bank HIAs are subject to a 1 week notice period but I'll refund as fast as possible if you so desire. I'll be online for the next hour or so in case there's a sudden rush as a result of Ricdic's question (lol). Then you can invest in EBank and have a "safe" 0%-3% interest per month. Next post will be in about 20 minutes once I've found all the relevant links regarding EBank (plus 10 seconds to answer Ricdic's question about Fury Bank).
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.10 03:29:00 - [192] Edited by: FastLearner on 10/11/2007 03:32:23 Ok, first to address Ricdic's question to me - namely "Did you loan half (give or take) the funds in the bank, and then lose them?". The answer to that is no - on two counts: 1. The amount I borrowed wasn't "half (give or take)" the funds in the bank, 2. When I lost the mothership it had no impact on what I owed to the bank - nor on my ability to repay it. The mothership was never somethign which was going to pay off the loan, it was an enjoyable luxury (which provided a useful logistic adjunct to Fury Holdings) but the means of repayment was always my income from Fury Holdings and my existing assets - neither of which has changed. AS far as point 1 gos, my current debt to Fury Bank is approximately 12 billion. Insurance payout on the mothershp was 5.9 billion - which currently sits in an alt's account. The lack of change in Fury Bank deposits/debts this week should be a fairly clear indication that the 5.9 hasn't been deposited or used to pay off my debt. Obviously you need to understand my reports to appreciate that, something Ricdic has problems with : XXX. Now let's look at point 2. Anyone who PvPs (and I don't count suiciding vs mercs as pvP) will know that securing anyhting (especially a loan) vs a PvP ship is ludicrous. I'd never do that. I have personal assets worth more than what I borrowed. Now that isn't easily demonsrated. But consider RL loans - most aren't offered because of what you own, but because of what you earn. My earnings (at least part of them) are clearly stated on the forums. I earn half of Fury Holdings' profits plus I am also (just about) a majority shareholder in FH. My earnings from Fury Holdings, alone, were around 2 billion last week (not counting the growth in my shares' value). An Aeon costs around 20-22 billion to buy and we already know that I have 5.9 billion base insurance payout from the lost one. So even ignoring all my other assets that only equates to 8 weeks income from Fury Holdings for me personally. And that's totally ignoring my other assets and the fact that I'm rather decent at running level 4 missions in my faction raven (check around killboards and you'll find various of those lost, including a 4 bill one to Privateers). While losing 15 billion may seem a huge amount to a low income individual like Ricdic, it's not actually a huge issue to me: yo ucan tell how badly it traumatised me if you look at the combat report - you'll find my alt came back after dieing in a dreadnaught (also privately owned) and got top damage on the dread that assisted in killing my mothership. Obviously all of my reports for the last siz months could be fake - maybe I don't do any business at all and have given shareholders a 150% return on their initial investment out of my own pocket. Alternatively, maybe Ricidic just doesn't like the fact that some "upstart" who has only played the game for a year has rather more ability than him and isn't that interested in sucking up to some established crowd of semi-competent online businessmen. Ricidic was wrong about what percentage of the bank's funds I borrowed, totally ignorant (intentionally I can only assume) of how paltry the loss of a mothership is when you have decent income and apparently credits me with believing that having a mothership was a major source of income (if not, then his whole argument is specious anyway). On, next to the brief points I raised about EBank. They were just a few quick points which occurred to me, whilst semi-drunk, but as I raised them I ought to substantiate them I guess.
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.10 03:34:00 - [193] 1) Claimed all directors were actively participating then next day sacked two for non-particpance. In this thread XXX post XXX ricdic states that all directors in EBank are contributing nicely to it. Then the very next day, in this thread, XXX he states two directors left/were kicked out for not contributing. Now if "all" means "all except those who aren't" then the word suddenly ceases to have any meaning. Of course, he could mean "all current" - but as he surely knows the public hadn't been formed of the kickings then he'd be intentionally misleading: as he'd KNOW that those not in his circle of confidants would have no reason to assume anyone had been kicked. Intentionally misleading/exaggerating is, of course, a skill he has some practice in (I'll hold my hands up to being outclassed by him at that). 2) Claimed 15 billion was maximum investment allowed for security reasons then changed it to a minimum of 15 billion, When EBank launched, two reasons were given for a 15 billion investment - that they weren't confident of their competence to generate regular income on more than that, and that they didn't believe the public would trust them with more than that. I'm paraphrasing rather liberally there - but I really CBA to trawl through all 50 EBank threads to find the relevant quotes. At some stage the thought crossed their mind that, rather than just pay out crap interest rates, why not pay out nothing at all - and at that stage the 15 billion maximum vanished. Now I don't claim the 15 billion limit should have been set in the first place - I'm sure there's enough new IPOs Ricdic can fool into "securing" themselves then allowing the security to be "reinvested" to cover interest on more than that. But when you've stated a limit AND two reasons for it, one reason ceasing to be relevant doesn't just make the second reason vanish into thin air. 3) Stated no identites of users would be given out then gave out not just every user's name but also their password. This one's simple. Ricdic stated identities of investors wouldn't be given out. Hexx said the first batch of ivnestors would be listed. I posted in that thread, uoting Hexx and asking whether that was a change of policy. My question was ignored. User list was published DESPITE the default password being known. A board of directors of 4/5/6 (however many it is minus however many have been kicked for being useless) and noone realised that listing user names AND password could just possibly be a security risk? As the saying gos - a camel is a horse designed by a committee. EBank seems to be a committee. 4) Claimed the bank's target was 15% return on secured investment then next day claimed to have invested in an unsecured 8% return investment with the bank's funds. Ricidic, in hone of his ebullient moods claimed EBank's aim was to invest in secured investments paying 15% per month. The next day he claimed to have EBank funds invested in an unsecured 8% (or thereabouts) return bond issue. The owner of the bonds called him on this - but, of course, Ricdic never responded. Exageration's all fine and well - until you then contradict yourself before people have forgotten your exagerations.
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.10 03:37:00 - [194] Moving on to a few general points. Ricdic's main argument (if you give it that much credit) vs Fury Bank has been that FB is a one-man company (true) while EBank is run by a group of people (also true). This argument, to me, falls down on two counts: 1. Quantity is, of itself, no substitute for quality. The foundation of a bank is (or should be) an investment/revenue source able to generate income on deposited funds . Fury Bank has that, in spades, with Fury Holdings. 10 people who can each generate 3% per month income can't, together, generate 30% - in fact it's unliley they can even generate 3%. To make ISK requires quality not quantity. That's not to say there's no quality in EBank - there is: just not in proven ability to make income. You can have all the fancy features you want on a bank - but at the end of the day people want a return from it. Security they can get by leaving in their own wallet in the first place. 2. Ricdic's argument seems to be (no doubt he'll correct me if he's spinning it a different way today) that spreading ISK amongst more people reduces the risk of scam compared to having it all with one person. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and credit him with being partially correct with that (even a blind dartsman will hit the board occasionally). Let's assume everyone has an equal chance of scamming. If that assumption were correct then a one-man operation WOULD be more liekly to commit a 100% scam, but a multiple-person operation would be more likely to scam you of part of your investment. I'll cross my figners and hope even Ricdic understands the math behind that. Obviously, however, not everyone has the same likelihood of scamming - but how to decide who is the most likely to scam? Well, here's a simple proposition for anyone who's got this far: those with the ability to do well without scamming have less need (and hence are less likely) to scam than those who struggle to make decent money honestly. Think about that. Does it make sense? Then consider Fury Holdings/Bank (makes good ISK, never missed a dividend) and compare it to Ricdic (one failed IPO - which he's still strugglign to payoff, one cap-ship one which he expanded when everyone else knew it was a bad move, one research labs one where he runs round like a headless chicken if some newbie merc alliance war decs it) and consider who actually needs/has incentive to scam? If I'm a scammer I'm pretty bad at it - I should be advertising on the sell forums, trying to con (sorry Ricidc, assist) new IPOs by getting them to secure with me for no interest then buying their shares and pocketing their profits for no risk while denying them any genuine chance of promotion etc. And if anyone calls me on it I could always get Hexx to claim I was acting as an underwriter when I kept most of the shares myself (ignoring the obligations an underwriter actually has). Gah, I'm starting to sober up now and the fun's going out of this. Hopefully Ricdic will write a nice retort (move it to a new thread if you want - and I'll move mine across as well) and we can make this an ongoing and entertaining thread. P.S. Never did get round to looking up the URLs - but if Ricdic claims any are false then I'll happily dig them out.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.10 03:51:00 - [195] Just on this last post. I have not tried comparing EBANK to Fury bank in this post. I am not sure why you feel the need to justify your business. I am more than happy with the way things are. At first (months back) I did feel that Fury bank would be competition to EBANK, but this has not been the case. Obviously they are two different kettles of fish. Either way, EBANK has a lot of customers, and I am sure Fury Bank has some too. We can stretch Epeens by comparing deposits but lets not bother with that. Simply put, I posted a response to you claiming that LaVista was incompetent for starting a Capital Ship IPO. I posted that some may see you as also being incompetent for losing a mothership that is currently being loaned (the isk or some percentage of it) through your own bank. If as you say you never take out a loan for a PvP ship, then why would you even mention it? Either way everyone makes mistakes. LV may have gotten into a market that wasn't optimal, and you may have jumped into a system without scanning it correctly prior. If you feel you have the right to call LV incompetent for his actions, then you should also accept similar treatment for your own mistakes. Obviously you chose to take the personal attack route, and I won't indulge you by responding as it's irelevant to this conversation. Not everyone is perfect. You have shown ways in which I am not perfect. I accept that. Now it's time to accept that you can also make mistakes. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.10 04:11:00 - [196] Originally by: Ricdic Just on this last post. I have not tried comparing EBANK to Fury bank in this post. I am not sure why you feel the need to justify your business. I am more than happy with the way things are. At first (months back) I did feel that Fury bank would be competition to EBANK, but this has not been the case. Obviously they are two different kettles of fish. Either way, EBANK has a lot of customers, and I am sure Fury Bank has some too. We can stretch Epeens by comparing deposits but lets not bother with that. Simply put, I posted a response to you claiming that LaVista was incompetent for starting a Capital Ship IPO. I posted that some may see you as also being incompetent for losing a mothership that is currently being loaned (the isk or some percentage of it) through your own bank. If as you say you never take out a loan for a PvP ship, then why would you even mention it? Either way everyone makes mistakes. LV may have gotten into a market that wasn't optimal, and you may have jumped into a system without scanning it correctly prior. If you feel you have the right to call LV incompetent for his actions, then you should also accept similar treatment for your own mistakes. Obviously you chose to take the personal attack route, and I won't indulge you by responding as it's irelevant to this conversation. Not everyone is perfect. You have shown ways in which I am not perfect. I accept that. Now it's time to accept that you can also make mistakes. On the (non)competition issue I agree. Ironically, I think that I priced my returns so high that the competition issue never arose. Had I paid a lower rate of interest I'd have had to advertise for ISK - when instead I've ended up having to keep a low profile to avoid getting to the stage where I end up shutting down deposits. I DID take a loan out towards buying the mothership - and I still owe approximately 12 billion of it (though could pay half of that off with just the default insurance). My point wasn't that I didn't borrow ISK to buy it, rather that the mothership itself was never in any way the source of repayment or the security of the debt: and hence it's loss becomes irrelevant to the loan. I'm guessing you've never flown a capital ship in combat - and probably haven't read the thread about my mothership's demise. I jumped nowhere: I intentionally engaged hostiles in the system I was already in, because I wanted some combat. I died - and so did just about all of the hostiles. Yes, I made some errors of judgment in what I did (though it was good fun). But noone other than me (and the hostiles) suffered from my actions. And I didn't engage after a bunch of other mothership pilots had told me not to. So I really don't see how it's comparable to any comments made about IPOs. My errors regarding my mothership loss have been deabted in three seperate threads in our alliance forums (public one, military one and corp reps one). If/when you have a clue about what happened we can have a fourth such thread here. I have a track record of jumping into combat when I've had a few beers (and when I haven't): sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. I always, however, foot the bill myself, don't whine about it and carry on as normal - it's fun and I can afford to do it. IF I'd been trying to claim back interest paid to Fury Bank, or take a bigger salary cut from Fury Holdings then you'd 100% have a point. But I'm not - and you don't.
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.10 04:11:00 - [197] Originally by: Ricdic I posted that some may see you as also being incompetent for losing a mothership that is currently being loaned (the isk or some percentage of it) through your own bank. If as you say you never take out a loan for a PvP ship, then why would you even mention it? I may be wrong, but I believe what he meant was that the ship itself was not the collateral for the loan. Rather his income from Fury Holdings was the collateral.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.10 04:23:00 - [198] Originally by: Benvie I may be wrong, but I believe what he meant was that the ship itself was not the collateral for the loan. Rather his income from Fury Holdings was the collateral. So in other words, Fastlearner as a single individual is incompetent for loosing his mothership. FuryBank is not as they just provided a loan. But then one could also say that LaVista is not the incompetent one, he just offered the business. Those who invested in him should be the incompetent ones for investing in an industry that had a higher chance of failure. Is that correct? Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.10 04:39:00 - [199] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Benvie I may be wrong, but I believe what he meant was that the ship itself was not the collateral for the loan. Rather his income from Fury Holdings was the collateral. So in other words, Fastlearner as a single individual is incompetent for loosing his mothership. FuryBank is not as they just provided a loan. But then one could also say that LaVista is not the incompetent one, he just offered the business. Those who invested in him should be the incompetent ones for investing in an industry that had a higher chance of failure. Is that correct? No? I was commenting in the Market Discussions forums about competence in making business decisions. You, apparently, believe that PvP mistakes are somehow relevant to competence at running a business - I assert that they're different skill-sets. I don't claim that zzz's combat losses to that crappy merc outfit have any relevance to your ability (or otherwise) to manage a business/bank. Not sure why you believe that me losing a ship somehow reflects on my ability to run a business/bank. Your initial objection appeared to be that somehow when that mothership died the status of my loan to purchase it was affected. Now you're moving the goal posts (by the looks of it to some game which doesn't even use goals). Here's what I hope is a simple summary for you: 1. The loss of the mothership had no impact on my ability to repay my loan, nor on the rate of interest I pay (which is exactly the same as anyone else with a gradually-repaid 10 bill+ loan would pay - the terms of it actually prevent me swamping the bank with my insurance payout even if I wanted to). 2. Any error(s) of judgement I (or anyone else) made in a PvP situation have no relationship to my ability to manage a business and/or bank. On the flip-side, any erros I (or anyone else) made in business situations do (rather self-evidently) have a relationship to my (or their) ability to manage a business/bank. I'll take it as a compliment that the best attack you can come up with on my business skills/trustworthiness is that I lost a ship in PvP. I'll probably lose another ship in the next few days and you can have another go at me :)
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.10 04:43:00 - [200] Though it is indeed entertaining to watch the two of you trade jabs, I'd like to commend both of you for paying regular dividends, no matter how incompetent each of you may or may not be. I've made a promise to behave myself in this thread for another few weeks, so I'm somewhat limited in what I can say here... but after having invested in Portsmouth, both of you are looking like Warren Buffet to me. Though you guys obviously have differences of opinion, lets not forget who the real bad guy is here. P.S. Hi Wylker! Hope things are well Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.10 04:49:00 - [201] Good point Kitex, I will shut up now Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.10 04:51:00 - [202] Originally by: Kitex Though it is indeed entertaining to watch the two of you trade jabs, I'd like to commend both of you for paying regular dividends, no matter how incompetent each of you may or may not be. I've made a promise to behave myself in this thread for another few weeks, so I'm somewhat limited in what I can say here... but after having invested in Portsmouth, both of you are looking like Warren Buffet to me. Though you guys obviously have differences of opinion, lets not forget who the real bad guy is here. P.S. Hi Wylker! Hope things are well Yeah, I think the diversion has run it's course. Whatever other complaints/criticisms people may have of Ricdic/myself I think it's safe to say neither of us exactly hides from addressing criticism of ourselves or our projects :)
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.10 06:08:00 - [203] Originally by: Ricdic So in other words, Fastlearner as a single individual is incompetent for loosing his mothership. FuryBank is not as they just provided a loan. But then one could also say that LaVista is not the incompetent one, he just offered the business. Those who invested in him should be the incompetent ones for investing in an industry that had a higher chance of failure. I would say people who invested in any of these cap production ventures was foolish, perhaps not incompetent. It was clear there was no way the market would sustain itself for long as it was already dying a bad death when these IPO's launched. Several of us said as much through personal experience in the market. I personally sold out my own capital production capabilities just as these guys were all starting up because my profits weren't high enough back then. But I'd say I don't quite see how ignoring clear evidence and trends about the capital market and losing a ship in PvP are comparable at all. First of all, FL's loss of his Mothership has no real relevance to his IPO at all. He took a loan out with the bank he runs... and as long as he pays back that loan according to the rules of the bank that is all there is to it, correct? What he does with that money is not anyones business unless he violates his loan rules. He could give it all away to strangers if he chooses to. In any case, I still have the max possible in FuryBank and see no reason to withdraw it. Thankfully I have nothing in the venture being discussed here. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Unified Capital Productions Unified	Posted - 2007.11.10 06:59:00 - [204] Originally by: FastLearner I asume incompetence on his part, not good faith. Smae thing as I assume on CAP4U. Both started cap-ship production when anyone with a clue said it was a silly idea. At the time I rated Wylker's venture as the better of the two - I was wrong about that. Neither's working, neither seems to have any intention of refunding shareholders (a common fault in Eve - IPO launchers who fail believe they were given some god-given mandate to look after ISK even after whatever their abortive plan was failed). Its fine you call me incompetent, i heard that all the time. But please, do look into your facts. Fine, it might, or might not, have been a good idea to go into capital production. I like to think it was, as that paid out 25% of the total value of CAP4U, in 3 months. Anyways, that doesnt matter. Now when i made the post about refocusing(Read: Im NOT stopping to do capitals), i clearly wrote several times that ill buy back shares. PP came around and stated that whatever i do, i should stick to his investment, or if i create a new IPO, invest them in there. I convoed a large part of the investors i have, even them with just 1 share, to hear what they thought, and asked them if they were happy, and if they were aware that its possible to sell back shares to me. Not one person actually wanted to sell back their shares(Yeah, i want some CAP4U shares too, tbh). And everybody supported me that i should refocus. Fastlearner, how can you judge my intention, without having read up on it? If i remember this correctly, i have stated the above several times. You make me sound like i wanna scam, or is stupid(Different from incompetent, mind you)
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.10 07:01:00 - [205] Well the way I see it is that it's the investor who should be weighing up the pro's and con's of these businesses. ie, myself as a CAP4U shareholder should decide to or not to invest based on my belief in his plan. Now I can understand that the plan was probably fluffed a bit too much with high percent return expectations so some may have invested under what they believe were unclear circumstances. See, some of those bonds you guys are seeing now, some of the biggest ones out there, do deal in capital production. Sure, they are disguised as bonds (so basically hiding all internal activities). So should we call all of their CEO's incompetent by default? Going back on topic, let's not call names at those who are working their asses off to meet the expectations they offered their investors (ie, LaVista). This thread is about the way PSI are handling their commitments. Putting LV and PSI into the same boat is totally unfair. Sure, they are both in the capital industry but one freely offers information, looks for alternatives, and is actually paying dividends. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.10 07:03:00 - [206] Originally by: Shadarle I would say people who invested in any of these cap production ventures was foolish, perhaps not incompetent. I wish I could argue with that. The best (and only) offer I received when trying to dump these shares was 25% of purchase price. At this point, I'm not hoping for a dividend for the sake of a dividend, but rather as proof that this isn't a scam, which should enable me to dump them at less of a loss. Needless to say, I'll be looking to bail on this as soon as it's prudent to do so. Until then... yeah, I'm feeling foolish. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.10 07:04:00 - [207] Originally by: Ricdic is actually paying dividends. Paying dividends is just a bonus. At least writing on the forums is start, before you start paying out Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.10 07:11:00 - [208] Though I don't own any CAP4U, I actually wish I did. Not because cap production is so great (obviously), but because LV strikes me as an active and conscientious money manager. You can't polish a turd, but from what I've seen I do truly believe that he's made a very sincere effort at it. More important than the business plan is the man pulling the strings, and I do intend to put some money into LV if the opportunity ever presents itself. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.10 07:22:00 - [209] Originally by: Ricdic See, some of those bonds you guys are seeing now, some of the biggest ones out there, do deal in capital production. Sure, they are disguised as bonds (so basically hiding all internal activities). So should we call all of their CEO's incompetent by default? A bond is a bond, we don't care what profit the person makes as long as they pay out as they stated they would when releasing the bond. I don't care if Ionia is making capital ships with the money in FRPB or speculating on datacores, all I care about is that the payments on the bond are made. But if someone says they are going to do something specific and pay out a percentage profits then it is quite important that the person understand what they are getting into. It is also important that they don't mislead their investors with false estimates on profits. I personally think issuing a bond is the smartest course for someone who has a good way to make a lot of profit but doesn't want to disclose it nor share those profits. But in order to issue a bond you have to be trusted, so you run an IPO or two first to show you can be trusted and that you're a good business person. I would agree LV shouldn't be compared to someone who goes MIA for stretches and has yet to pay dividends. The only comparison in their combined lack of judgment in starting such a venture when they did. It ends there though as LV has actually tried to turn lemons into lemonade. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.10 07:46:00 - [210] Absolutely Shadarle I agree with basically everything you said. The annoyance I had was that LV was being called incompetent for making a bad call. He has since been working his butt off to provide alternates and ensure his investors get the returns that he did tell people of, plus he has the buyback in place. At this point regardless of the poor way the capital market has gone, LV has exceeded his projection every month. That's not a sign of incompetence. It's a bad call, but we all make those. As has been advertised by myself and others of late trying to smear my appearance I have had plenty of bad calls in my time too (read: C-P-H IPO) and I don't consider myself incompetent as a result. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.10 10:02:00 - [211] Originally by: Ricdic As has been advertised by myself and others of late trying to smear my appearance I have had plenty of bad calls in my time too (read: C-P-H IPO) and I don't consider myself incompetent as a result. IMHO, if you didn't jump in to defend people, or just add your comments, so much... you wouldn't be in line for so many punches. I think this spat between you two should not have started, went overly long, and is a total derailment. (Tsk, tsk, shame no you two) That being said, go back to your respective corners and simply wait for the next round. During the break try to arrange it so that there is not a next round. Thank you and goodnight. It's A GIRL!!!!!
Ricdics Corporate Placement Holding Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.10 16:01:00 - [212] I have 1 question for Wylker. Can we please get a date for our first dividend? The last few pages tell different dates but to the best of my knowledge from reading the thread we can expect dividend #1 on the 15th of November. Is this correct? Insured Research and Production Services Queues
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.10 16:02:00 - [213] Originally by: Ricdics I have 1 question for Wylker. Can we please get a date for our first dividend? The last few pages tell different dates but to the best of my knowledge from reading the thread we can expect dividend #1 on the 15th of November. Is this correct? Isnt it the 16th? Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.10 16:08:00 - [214] sorry yeh it would seem so based on this post. Just wanted to make sure everything was on track for the dividend
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.10 17:01:00 - [215] I contacted Wylker on SHC to ask him what his plans were and got this reply: Quote: Good questions, I am working on an alternate plan right now. At this exact moment sales have completely stopped, except for people that are selling them at or below cost. I am hoping that this is just people holding their breath while waiting to see the final verdict on the ships. Most likely I won't make a firm decision until Trinity comes out, but the current dev replies are giving me some hope for post-nerf sales. I actually originally had some mothership clients lined up (that were going to pre-pay non refundable deposits to cover potential losses) but right now no one wants those either. My aim was to build capitals though, so if the Rorqual market looks like it is going to blow up (I very seriously doubt this) I will see if it can deliver the profits I was hoping for. If not I will likely look towards liquidating because my interest was not to just run some general production corp, it was to build carriers. The last possibility is to perhaps try to capture some of the early market on the new T2 ships, as i have several max skilled invention characters. This would only go towards recouping potential losses of liquidating, as long term invention sucks. In short, right now it's wait and see. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.10 17:11:00 - [216] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I contacted Wylker on SHC to ask him what his plans were and got this reply: I even tried to add him to messenger. But no luck. So i just chatted to his CEO, who said that he, as far as he knew, still doing capital components for the ships. The fact that you have to post, Kazuo, is a bad move on Wylker's part. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.10 17:28:00 - [217] I intend to work with him to see what we can do to salvage the IPO, or at least make the best of a bad situation. If I was in his position I'd want all the encouragement I could get. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.10 17:33:00 - [218] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I intend to work with him to see what we can do to salvage the IPO, or at least make the best of a bad situation. If I was in his position I'd want all the encouragement I could get. But that doesnt limit him from at least speaking to us Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.10 17:46:00 - [219] Rawcola vouches for PSI: rawcola > Hello! rawcola > What is PSI! LaVista Vista > Bond share corp! rawcola > Is new yes! LaVista Vista > No! rawcola > What is for! LaVista Vista > Capital production! rawcola > Excellent! rawcola > Is for make Archon and Revelation yes! LaVista Vista > yes! rawcola > Excellent bond! Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.10 17:59:00 - [220] Originally by: LaVista Vista Rawcola vouches for PSI: rawcola > Hello! rawcola > What is PSI! LaVista Vista > Bond share corp! rawcola > Is new yes! LaVista Vista > No! rawcola > What is for! LaVista Vista > Capital production! rawcola > Excellent! rawcola > Is for make Archon and Revelation yes! LaVista Vista > yes! rawcola > Excellent bond! Is Rawcola an investor? If so, is he reading the posts about this - not the ones from Wy, he seems to have a problem posting. Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.10 18:11:00 - [221] Originally by: Kirjava Originally by: LaVista Vista Rawcola vouches for PSI: rawcola > Hello! rawcola > What is PSI! LaVista Vista > Bond share corp! rawcola > Is new yes! LaVista Vista > No! rawcola > What is for! LaVista Vista > Capital production! rawcola > Excellent! rawcola > Is for make Archon and Revelation yes! LaVista Vista > yes! rawcola > Excellent bond! Is Rawcola an investor? If so, is he reading the posts about this - not the ones from Wy, he seems to have a problem posting. Dont know either. But thats the log from a convo i had with him. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.10 18:17:00 - [222] If "Wait and see" is truly the plan, I'm assuming we'll see no return on this for quite some time to come. If you don't have anything else to offer, Wylker, I ask that you immediately put this to a liquidation vote. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.10 18:55:00 - [223] Thanks for the into guys. My main hope was to just know the date of the next dividend, that's all.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.10 19:14:00 - [224] Originally by: Ricdic's Hoe Thanks for the into guys. My main hope was to just know the date of the next dividend, that's all. Ric - why are you jumping between your main and your Hoe? Makes it harder to follow when I dont see your mushot and know who's talking When was Wylker last online anyway or made a single post somewhere? Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.10 19:16:00 - [225] The more I think about this, the more uptight I get about it. It takes some balls to suggest you're just going to let 40b sit idle for another few months, after which you may or may not liquidate based on market changes that come with Trinity. If there is some aspect to your plan that we don't know about, please post it. I, for one, won't bother chasing you down on a third party forum to engage you in a conversation regarding 40b you raised right here in this one. If your post quoted above is truly the meat and potatoes of your plan, I'm asking you to liquidate right now rather than later. I have no confidence in you as the manager of this investment, and if you won't even put liquidation to a vote, I'll just start to consider this a 40b isk scam. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.10 19:17:00 - [226] Originally by: Kirjava Originally by: Ricdic's Hoe Thanks for the into guys. My main hope was to just know the date of the next dividend, that's all. Ric - why are you jumping between your main and your Hoe? Makes it harder to follow when I dont see your mushot and know who's talking When was Wylker last online anyway or made a single post somewhere? Hes been on for a while this evening, but doesnt respond. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.11 02:17:00 - [227] From the in-game mail list Wylker set up for this IPO, in response to my request for more information, Wylker's corp-mate Trixie Baggz had this to say: Quote: Hi Kitex Due to the amazing**gotry I have seen from you and certain other people in this mailing list I have advised Wylker to take your money and tell you to ** off. God I hate you, die of aids. Kisses and Lollipops xoxoxoxoxox That's pleasant company you keep, Wylker. Liquidate this. You don't have the skills to run it, as you've demonstrated. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.11 02:32:00 - [228] Originally by: Kitex From the in-game mail list Wylker set up for this IPO, in response to my request for more information, Wylker's corp-mate Trixie Baggz had this to say: Quote: Hi Kitex Due to the amazing**gotry I have seen from you and certain other people in this mailing list I have advised Wylker to take your money and tell you to ** off. God I hate you, die of aids. Kisses and Lollipops xoxoxoxoxox Now that is class! Anytime someone who runs an IPO refuses to post on the forums you know things are going bad. It's not like he doesn't know there are posts, he just refuses to post here. Sorry guys, looks like this is heading more towards scam every time more info comes out. If he is too far gone to even make a post then I don't see any chance he will have the character to liquidate. If he cared about his rep he'd have made some posts here to try and salvage his rep. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Ghost Emperor Amarr EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.11 02:57:00 - [229] Dear Researchii, Wylker Well as a large investor one would have hoped for more feedback, I haven't posted in this thread to date but feel the need to ask for an update, or some contact as I might be able to help with plans etc. I seem to have been left off the investor mailing list as well...so feeling lonely like here :o But let me know either way, as if we at EMFI are on a highway to some losses it helps to sort the books out earlier ;) If the goings tought then its a shame, but you could even place a buyback, or seek BPO buyers etc? Gibve me a shout/convo to see whats going on plz, GL Visit EvE Galactic Stock Exchange and Real-time Eve Stock Exchange (in game or out, but trades in game). For E
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.11 03:04:00 - [230] Ghost, I believe you can join the mailing list yourself if you're interested in it. Just search for and join "PSI Mailing List" from the Mailing Lists tab. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Ghost Emperor Amarr EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.11 03:06:00 - [231] Originally by: Kitex Ghost, I believe you can join the mailing list yourself if you're interested in it. Just search for and join "PSI Mailing List" from the Mailing Lists tab. Thanks for the feedback...me feeling noobish now ;) but learning curves are good....and eve always has that to offer :O TY Visit EvE Galactic Stock Exchange and Real-time Eve Stock Exchange (in game or out, but trades in game). For E
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.11 08:33:00 - [232] Wow, Wylker isnt exactly having his corp help him on this one. Is it time to request an auditor perhaps? Because this is really starting to stink. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.11 09:14:00 - [233] I am going to reserve judgement for now. Wylker has advised the 16th he will provide an update/dividend so I am willing to wait for this. I think attacking him etc won't resolve the issue, I don't want him to get to a point where he just walks away keeping everything. Obviously if this was his intention it will happen either way, but I invested because I did believe he valued his reputation and I will continue to assume this until we see what path things take on and beyond the 16th. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Strobe S	Posted - 2007.11.11 09:41:00 - [234] IPO's have been generally good lately then we get Blue Dice and now this with wylker. I really hope wylker does provide something useful on the 16th.
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.12 01:12:00 - [235] Edited by: FastLearner on 12/11/2007 01:13:15 Originally by: Ricdic I am going to reserve judgement for now. Yeah, there could be a perfectly valid reason for being active on ohter forums but not here - would be a shame to call him incompetent when maybe his computer just blocked all eve-related IPs or something and there was nothing he could do. Most likely he just had some selective glitch: and it would be horrbily unfair to claim that his lack of posting here was anything other than an involuntary problem casued by some technical issue. Alternatively maybe he's just incompentent and/or full of ****? Simple question: would EBank lend me money if it was secured on Wylker's shares? (obvioiusly it would be through alts).
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.12 01:40:00 - [236] No EBANK would not lend money on the face value of PSI. You knew that answer already . I don't doubt the way this is being handled is terrible but I figure if he is on the cusp of either calling scam or fixing this up, I don't want to push him over that edge. I actually don't like throwing my money away. I would love to get out of this in some way or other, but if he is borderline scam then it's in our best interests to give him a chance to finish this thing. He has advised that some form of dividend/update will occur on the 16th so I will wait and see what happens then. I am trying to keep my isk from going down the drain here. However you won't see me compliment or defend his actions
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.12 02:33:00 - [237] Originally by: FastLearner Yeah, there could be a perfectly valid reason for being active on ohter forums but not here - would be a shame to call him incompetent when maybe his computer just blocked all eve-related IPs or something and there was nothing he could do. Most likely he just had some selective glitch: and it would be horrbily unfair to claim that his lack of posting here was anything other than an involuntary problem casued by some technical issue. You know, this reminds me of someone else who runs an IPO... Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Meleil	Posted - 2007.11.12 03:28:00 - [238] My scam senses were tingling back in early October. So I liquidated then to some very frisky fellows who wanted all the shares they could get. I have sympathy for those who've stuck it out this long. Which is quite amazing given the severe lack of information being provided to investors. ~Mel
SiJira	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:37:00 - [239] there are no dividends? all i request is that we dont get a drama bomb on the 16th ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.11.13 01:23:00 - [240] Edited by: Ezoran DuBlaidd on 13/11/2007 01:27:28 Originally by: SiJira there are no dividends? all i request is that we dont get a drama bomb on the 16th trixie baggs sent this nice little stick-** of a message to the psi mailing list today: 2007.11.12 20:23 I'm not saying anything on behalf of the corp or Wylker. I'm saying that my opinion is that he should take the money. now, i'm just curious, is trixie actually wylker's alt? cuz whomever trixie is, claims to be doing a lot of speaking on behalf of wylker and pretty much everything this -tard sends on the mailing list is, on a good, VERY good day - *** **** cat , and on a bad day, it's a lot worse than *** **** cat . so, i'm writing this one off as a loss due to moronic ass-stickery. if something finally comes of this, then ***** wonderful. i for one, am not holding my breath. edit: yeah, that copied thing says she wasn't speaking on behalf of wylker; but the only "official" information on the mailing list comes from her, in between nonstop profanity filled stupidity that is worthy of any 12 year old away from mommy's eyes and doing bad things that mommy doesn't want him doing. maybe trixie is really norman and norman is trying to play with those nasty girls. solid liquid
Titus Lewis	Posted - 2007.11.13 08:48:00 - [241] I think "full production" would have began in mid-September. Therefore we should be coming up on the 60 day repurchase offer at 95%. Might be worth a try anyway. Originally by: Wylker Edited by: Wylker on 16/09/2007 20:57:28 60 days after full production begins, PSI will begin offering share repurchases. This plan will be based on available funds and is only guaranteed to the extent that funds are available. Share repurchases will only be offered on shares that have been held for 20 days. (This eliminates share bouncing to "steal" dividends". Shares will be repurchased for 95% of their current valuation minus any dividends paid in the last 10 days. In order to request a share repurchase, simply send an eve-mail to Researchi and I will attempt to accommodate you.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.11.13 18:43:00 - [242] recent research has conclusively shown that by subscribing to, and subsequently reading, the PSI mailing list, you will in fact, become dumber. solid liquid
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.13 19:35:00 - [243] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd recent research has conclusively shown that by subscribing to, and subsequently reading, the PSI mailing list, you will in fact, become dumber. Excellent research! </rawcola> Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Nicho Void Gallente Hyper-Nova	Posted - 2007.11.13 20:21:00 - [244] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd recent research has conclusively shown that by subscribing to, and subsequently reading, the PSI mailing list, you will in fact, become dumber. QFT. I removed myself from the list after Trixie's amazing analysis of the situation. ---------------
Matsui Hideki	Posted - 2007.11.14 01:32:00 - [245] Edited by: Matsui Hideki on 14/11/2007 01:32:49 How come Wylker has time to spam in other threads but not respond in this one in a few weeks?
NobodyOfAnyImportance	Posted - 2007.11.14 03:11:00 - [246] Wylker is stins alt c/d?
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.14 05:42:00 - [247] Originally by: Matsui Hideki Edited by: Matsui Hideki on 14/11/2007 01:32:49 How come Wylker has time to spam in other threads but not respond in this one in a few weeks? I pointed out the same, several other places. He makes 12 posts on average per day on SCH for christ sake. And 4/day on his corp forum Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.16 04:01:00 - [248] Ok so I went through this whole thread to see why I invested in Wylker. It wasn't because of the returns, and the business plan only half sold me. The true reason was the mass amounts of people who confirmed he was reliable, that they knew him in RL, and that they vouched for him. I figured if this many people trusted in him enough to post it, then he must be a good guy. Obviously Wylker comes to a crossroads, where he needs to choose between good and evil. But when making this choice Wylker, I want you to understand that the outcome of your choice won't just affect your reputation, it will also affect the reputations of those around you who have put their faith in you, your friends and business acquaintances in game. For a recap on those people: Wylker Spanner Frew Researchi Isentro (said he vouches for Wylker) Aelena Thraant (CEO of Aftermath Alliance) Vladimir Yuchenko (promoted through prior business) Crovan (gave props to Wylker) Korasen Linachi (has 100% trust) Adam Weishaupt (gave props to Wylker) Vulture Virtue (director gave major props to Wylker) Jim Linger (said he vouches for Wylker) Admiral Fridge (another vouch for Wylker) Raquel Smith (knows where Wylker lives in RL) Tychus (gave Wylker props) Spanky McFarlan (gave Wylker props) Ender Darklight (gave Wylker props) Astro Teller (gave Wylker props) So this above list doesn't even include people like myself and the other 15-100 investors who have put their faith into you. Scamming may look like the easy way out, but I would beg to differ. The damage done to all of the above reputations, and you being noted as untrustworthy for the rest of your time in Eve aren't worth close to 40b. Yes, I am trying to secure my investment. But I am also trying to make sure Wylker see's that he is damaging far more people than himself by making the wrong choice. Anyway, today is D-Day. I would like to either see dividends, or a buyback policy begin being reinstated. As the EBANK founder I am happy to offer you the option of exchanging some of those assets so i can liquidate them and place buybacks on PSI stock free of charge if you go in this direction. I feel it is imperative that you do one of the above (begin organising buyback or dividend) today as I don't think anyone likes the content being fired off in the PSI mailing list and here on these forums. Contact me in-game through eiher Ricdic or EBANK Ricdic if you want to discuss options Wylker. Cheers and good luck,
Matsui Hideki	Posted - 2007.11.17 02:02:00 - [249] scamzor?
Meleil	Posted - 2007.11.17 02:13:00 - [250] waits patiently I give him till 20:00 eve time on the 17th before I give this the scam stamp. Oh yes I'll go there. ~Mel
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.17 02:30:00 - [251] So - if I am reading this right - no comments, money or even a one fingered hand gesture from Wylker. I beleive that if he dosen't do anything by DT then we can assume that this has been a Scam on the scale of that Pyramid scheme a while back - not the Eve IGB the other one, can't remember it's name.
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.17 03:33:00 - [252] Quote: Isentro (said he vouches for Wylker) Aelena Thraant (CEO of Aftermath Alliance) Vladimir Yuchenko (promoted through prior business) Crovan (gave props to Wylker) Korasen Linachi (has 100% trust) Adam Weishaupt (gave props to Wylker) Vulture Virtue (director gave major props to Wylker) Jim Linger (said he vouches for Wylker) Admiral Fridge (another vouch for Wylker) Raquel Smith (knows where Wylker lives in RL) Tychus (gave Wylker props) Spanky McFarlan (gave Wylker props) Ender Darklight (gave Wylker props) Astro Teller (gave Wylker props) All these folks are noticeably absent from the discussion on this these days. I'd love to see some of you post your thoughts on how this is going, what you expect might happen, and any information on what the hell you think might be going on in Wylker's head. Do any of you still vouch for this guy? Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.17 04:55:00 - [253] Originally by: Kitex Quote: Isentro (said he vouches for Wylker) Aelena Thraant (CEO of Aftermath Alliance) Vladimir Yuchenko (promoted through prior business) Crovan (gave props to Wylker) Korasen Linachi (has 100% trust) Adam Weishaupt (gave props to Wylker) Vulture Virtue (director gave major props to Wylker) Jim Linger (said he vouches for Wylker) Admiral Fridge (another vouch for Wylker) Raquel Smith (knows where Wylker lives in RL) Tychus (gave Wylker props) Spanky McFarlan (gave Wylker props) Ender Darklight (gave Wylker props) Astro Teller (gave Wylker props) All these folks are noticeably absent from the discussion on this these days. I'd love to see some of you post your thoughts on how this is going, what you expect might happen, and any information on what the hell you think might be going on in Wylker's head. Do any of you still vouch for this guy? Weren't some of those vouchers senior member of the alliance he was in at the time of the IPO (Aftermath)? His corporation left Aftermath and joined The Church back in October. I don't have any investment in this - but if I were a large investor in it my next course of action would be to mail his corporation/alliance leadership, direct them to this thread and ask whether they support scamming/incompetence. If they keep him in after that (assuming he doesn't resurface), then they're saying his behaviour is acceptable to their corporation/alliance - and other alliances will know to treat them accordingly. It could also be worth mailing some of the people who vouched for him - especially any who say they have funds invested in it. For what little it's worth, I don't actually think he's a scammer. I think he had (what he thought was) a decent plan, it didn't work and now he's just not man enough to face up to the music - and he's hoping some miracle will happen after Rev 3 and everything will become fine somehow.
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.17 05:17:00 - [254] Yeh I agree with FL. I don't believe he is a scammer. I have given him an out if he chooses to take it. A scam is far worse on one's record than a failed business plan.
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.17 06:54:00 - [255] Edited by: LaVista Vista on 17/11/2007 06:55:55 I talked to Virtual Virtue yesterday. And he said that he wasnt able to catch Wylker when i spoke to him. EDIT: Just got ingame, and seems like theres an update. But it just made me believe less in the project. Wylker, buy back shares. Now. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.17 06:57:00 - [256] 2007.11.17 05:26 Finally got operator on this mailing list and will be able to clean it up. I've opted not to post on the forum thread due to all the crap posts on there. I'd rather do it here, where I can now keep it clean and on topic. Dividends: Lastest news that I have (nothing firm) is that Wylker will be making a dividend payout (he has sold just a few carriers). I do not know the time frame for this, just wanted to pass on something positive. Liquidation: Still exploring the market, trying to find out where it's going to settle. Many of you are in alliances/corps with cap fleets, use them, lose them, kill other caps! General: With the future of carriers uncertain, this operation is also a little hazy. I am working with Wylker to explore new options, including rorqual, T2 freighter production, and/or other possibilities. I don't know if he saw Ricdic's mail, so I've opted to leave that in here for now. Buybacks: I have no idea, will find out. -VV 2007.11.17 05:30 Finally, if you have some questions/etc, feel free to post them here. Any off topic posts/trolling will get cleaned up on a daily basis, if not more. I've had a talk with Trixie, shouldn't be a problem anymore. Convos are a really bad way to catch me (I am usually PvPing when logged on this char), evemails are okay, but please try to keep discussion in the mailing list. I will answer private evemails, but there are somewhat of a pain and it's always helpful to answer questions in a public setting. Thanks for reading, VV Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.17 07:08:00 - [257] To be honest I think if you want to get away from capital ships you should just do the buyback and start another venture. Obviously there is no doubt that this venture has damaged your reputation and chances are that you won't be given public isk any time soon in the future as a result, but i don't believe that's justification to refuse to give people back their money now. I personally don't want any more excuses. I would like either my money back, or dividends as were promised. I find it scary that you guys are only just now wondering what to do with the money after holding it for 2+ months. So please, do the right thing, liquidate and accept that you screwed up. I do want to say thanks to the guy who put that mail through but this was a Wylker enterprise and I do not find it comforting that Wylker won't even do that for himself.
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.17 08:29:00 - [258] I've been vocal in my criticism on this, but I really feel like I have no choice but to handle it with kid-gloves from here on out. I actually get the impression that he's trying to punish us with his silence, and I really don't know how to react to that. With Wylker, the squeaky wheel gets ~~the~~ no grease. Frustrating. I don't know what to do besides stick my head in the clouds, listen to hippie music, and wish myself and other investors the best of luck. That totally goes against my nature, but it doesn't seem that anything else works. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Vulture Virtue Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.17 16:59:00 - [259] I had trouble posting on these forums last night. Anyways, as La Vista Vista has posted, I am going to be making updates in the mailing list from now on, which are on schedule. I will not be monitoring this thread very carefully, so look to the mailing list for answers. I do have operator in that list and will be moderating it heavily (and have already done so).
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.17 17:43:00 - [260] Originally by: Vulture Virtue I am going to be making updates in the mailing list from now on, which are on schedule. The main points of the most recent "on schedule" update: 1. You don't know when dividends will be paid. 2. You don't know when or if a decision will be made on liquidation. 3. You don't know when or if the promised share buyback will be instituted. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, Vulture, because this really isn't your job. I'm just hoping you realize that your "on schedule" update still leaves us clueless as to what's going on, and Wylker's obligation to disseminate information is absolutely not fulfilled. I'm hoping the next update is more substantive, so that I can stay in a friendly mood. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.11.18 01:34:00 - [261] does anyone want to buyback a handful of this scam? i'm stuck with a few i couldn't offload to folks who have hope in this scam. oh, yeah, i said scam. subscribe to the psi mailing list and feel free to read the updates and say i'm wrong. solid liquid
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.11.18 01:36:00 - [262] Originally by: Kitex Originally by: Vulture Virtue I am going to be making updates in the mailing list from now on, which are on schedule. The main points of the most recent "on schedule" update: 1. You don't know when dividends will be paid. 2. You don't know when or if a decision will be made on liquidation. 3. You don't know when or if the promised share buyback will be instituted. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, Vulture, because this really isn't your job. I'm just hoping you realize that your "on schedule" update still leaves us clueless as to what's going on, and Wylker's obligation to disseminate information is absolutely not fulfilled. I'm hoping the next update is more substantive, so that I can stay in a friendly mood. if he's stepping up to the plate and being moderator on that mailing list and being the new non-goon-wannabe mouthpiece for this "venture/scam"; then um, i'm sorry, i see no reason to not treat him like wylker. hell, he still could be yet another wylker alt or whatever. solid liquid
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.18 01:37:00 - [263] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd does anyone want to buyback a handful of this scam? i'm stuck with a few i couldn't offload to folks who have hope in this scam. oh, yeah, i said scam. subscribe to the psi mailing list and feel free to read the updates and say i'm wrong. I'll buy them at 20% of launch price - they're worth a punt at that.
Doctor Fruitloop	Posted - 2007.11.18 01:53:00 - [264] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd does anyone want to buyback a handful of this scam? i'm stuck with a few i couldn't offload to folks who have hope in this scam. oh, yeah, i said scam. subscribe to the psi mailing list and feel free to read the updates and say i'm wrong. Yup looks like a scam allright.
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.18 02:09:00 - [265] Originally by: Doctor Fruitloop Yup looks like a scam allright. Win!
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.18 02:37:00 - [266] Originally by: Doctor Fruitloop Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd does anyone want to buyback a handful of this scam? i'm stuck with a few i couldn't offload to folks who have hope in this scam. oh, yeah, i said scam. subscribe to the psi mailing list and feel free to read the updates and say i'm wrong. Yup looks like a scam allright. Bah - posted with an alt.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.18 06:45:00 - [267] I don't understand what could take Wylker so long to decide on a course of action. Either he can make money selling capitals still or he can't. If he can't then he should liquidate ASAP and pay out all the money in divs. If he can then he should post and state that he can. This is really all there is to it... it's simple. If he tries to continue the business but doing things other than producing capital ships then he is in breach of his IPO. His complete and utter cowardice in avoiding this thread is pitiful, the last person he should be trying to emulate in running an IPO is Stins. But the only thing worse than him not posting so far is for him to continue not posting in the future. Every day he hides and cowers in a corner the worse it gets for him. Yet I would be willing to bet he will continue to hide... clearly he is quite afraid of a forum lashing, as if he isn't getting one already. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.18 06:55:00 - [268] They've actually stated that they won't post on the EVE-O forums because they can't moderate them. Scary huh? So our sole source of information is the in-game mailing list that seems to fluctuate between 8 and 11 subscribers. Out of what I'd guess to be 50-100+ investors. Unfortunately, Wylker doesn't post there either. In fact, his last post there was 28 days ago. Vulture Virtue, Wylker's CEO, has provided sporadic "updates" to the list. Unfortunately, he doesn't know anything, but "will find out". Neat huh? I find myself getting increasingly interested in acquiring intel regarding Pyrrhus Sicarii's destructible 0.0 assets. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Treelox Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.11.18 07:23:00 - [269] Originally by: Kitex I find myself getting increasingly interested in acquiring intel regarding Pyrrhus Sicarii's destructible 0.0 assets. is it time to start passing around the hat, to collect funds to hire MC? --
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.18 07:30:00 - [270] Originally by: Treelox Originally by: Kitex I find myself getting increasingly interested in acquiring intel regarding Pyrrhus Sicarii's destructible 0.0 assets. is it time to start passing around the hat, to collect funds to hire MC? I got KIA on speed dial
Treelox Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.11.18 08:10:00 - [271] Originally by: Ricdic's Hoe Originally by: Treelox Originally by: Kitex I find myself getting increasingly interested in acquiring intel regarding Pyrrhus Sicarii's destructible 0.0 assets. is it time to start passing around the hat, to collect funds to hire MC? I got KIA on speed dial hehe I just suggested MC, since they seem to be off contract(read bored). --
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.18 11:58:00 - [272] Originally by: Shadarle If he can't then he should liquidate ASAP and pay out all the money in divs. If he can then he should post and state that he can. He definitely can't make a profit on them at the moment, but there's a chance that things will change. I'm thinking of this thread in particular. The problem is, no-one has any idea how long it might be until things start to look up again. I don't think CCP is going to leave carriers in their currently slated post-nerf state indefinitely, and if that's the case then this is the worst possible time to try to sell off carrier BPOs (not to mention carriers themselves). I think Wylker is waiting to see what happens in the hope that it'll be something good and he can start running the IPO again. Until things pick up (or we get confirmation that no changes are happening in the near future, which seems likely) I think a partial liquidation would be the best course of action - i.e., selling off anything that has held its value up to this point. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.18 13:08:00 - [273] As an investor at this point, I prefer a liquidation and a slight loss of my funds so i can use the remainder in an actual non locked down state. Right now any funds in Wylker's hands are worthless. He is 1 month late on dividends, has zero communications skills, and even after months with the isk he still doesn't know what he is doing with it. Of course we were also lured in by 15% return promises, and a ton of references by corp/alliance mates. Plus his superb communications skills before he actually got the money off us. We now have no dividends, no idea when dividends will be, no idea how dividends will be procured, no communication from the guy who said: Originally by: Wylker I am very consistent and loyal to my allies. I wish I had some way to express to you how important I think business ethics are and how I believe that businesses have a moral responsibility, but beyond simple statements I have no way of proving that to you. In addition, I possessed all hangar and POS roles in my ISS corp It also should be pointed out how extensive his business skills are: Originally by: Wylker Out of game, I hold a BS in business management with focus on accounting and economics. I have personally launched three separate LLCs in two different states and eventually sold each business for a profit. I have worked on my own, and I have managed staffs of over 200 people. Frankly speaking, I call BS on your BS. No-one in control of mass management in business would deal in the level of communication you have done. You need to offer a buyback to those who want it. Start liquidating funds. Start communicating with people. I couldn't care less if you start bringing in 30% returns, I just have zero interest in someone such as yourself working my money. You used deceit and lies to promote yourself, you haven't bothered beginning the buyback you promised. Your entire business plan has failed miserably. As someone who has run companies of your own you would know the importance of business plans, customer and investor communications and the likes. A business plan isn't worth a thing if you don't bother following the processes you outlined and we invested in. Take my offer, allow me to handle this liquidation. Alternatively, throw a vote out, don't vote on it with your 51% of shares, and see what the public want to do. I have offered you assistance in game both through evemail, mailing list, these forums, and personal evemails, and your friends with no response whatsoever. Stop stringing people along, it's time to end this thing.
Kara Rhane Gallente Rhane's Research and Development Labs.	Posted - 2007.11.18 14:47:00 - [274] In the interest of doing what's right, wylker might want to simply bow to public opinion and let a vote go through. Even a 'I'm sorry, I'll let you guys vote on this since it is your ISK' would be better then no communication at all. There has been harm done to wylker's reputation and whether he knows it or not it is getting worse by the day with no reply at all, the one thing I don't think he knows it's doing is damaging the reputation of every single person who 'vouched' for him. Which at the time I believe were much of the leadership in 'Aftermath alliance'. Note we don't need any politics brought in over aftermath's current political leanings and what that could be effecting. But every day makes it worse and worse for all of those people. If you don't like what's happening with carriers, then liquidate. If you think you can ride it out, then pay the two dividend payments at the rate you promised and continue. If you think the market is dead, then other get a manager like riddic in there to help out and figure a solution or give people back their ISK so they can invest it else where. Right before a major patch is a GREAT time to make isk if you have even a handful of brain cells and a little ISK on hand. But don't continue down this current "No communication" road. You haven't nuked your reputation yet, but you've got ALOT of problems with it atm that could be easily solved with just a few posts, or even one saying "Riddic will be helping me with this." Nothing will mean your reputation will become worth the same. -Kara ***** Rhane's Research and Development LabsÖ Click to search our Ammo's, Missiles, and Drone BPO sets.
Meleil	Posted - 2007.11.18 14:54:00 - [275] Originally by: Treelox Originally by: Kitex I find myself getting increasingly interested in acquiring intel regarding Pyrrhus Sicarii's destructible 0.0 assets. is it time to start passing around the hat, to collect funds to hire MC? I find myself agreeing with this... Hell I'm tempted to hire MC myself. This joke doesn't deserve the isk he got from his "ipo". ~Mel
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.18 16:06:00 - [276] Edited by: Kirjava on 18/11/2007 16:10:23 Originally by: Meleil Originally by: Treelox Originally by: Kitex I find myself getting increasingly interested in acquiring intel regarding Pyrrhus Sicarii's destructible 0.0 assets. is it time to start passing around the hat, to collect funds to hire MC? I find myself agreeing with this... Hell I'm tempted to hire MC myself. This joke doesn't deserve the isk he got from his "ipo". ~Mel Any ideas how much this would cost? Do they own any outposts's that could be taken and auctioned off? EDIT Also as of now I am starting to type up a report on this to post on the Eve Tribune. If anyone has any copies of the conversations on the mailing list before they were deleted please send them too me. I am hoping that mass attention through the Tribune ( a major Eve journal) will bring pressure on Wylker from his alliance to pay up.
Daeva Vios PhaseShifter Technologies	Posted - 2007.11.18 20:10:00 - [277] Make absolutely certain you include the names of those individuals who vouched for him or have spoken for him in some capacity or another. They've thrown their support in, and they need to be dragged down as well. Financial matters may not weigh very heavily in the minds of most EVE players, but trust does matter. The community needs to know that they're the sort who will go above and beyond to violate trust. There's an easy way to prevent further escalation, Wylker.
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.18 20:23:00 - [278] Originally by: Daeva Vios Make absolutely certain you include the names of those individuals who vouched for him or have spoken for him in some capacity or another. They've thrown their support in, and they need to be dragged down as well. Financial matters may not weigh very heavily in the minds of most EVE players, but trust does matter. The community needs to know that they're the sort who will go above and beyond to violate trust. There's an easy way to prevent further escalation, Wylker. Heres a list of people, for starters: Wylker Spanner Frew Researchi Isentro (said he vouches for Wylker) Aelena Thraant (CEO of Aftermath Alliance) Vladimir Yuchenko (promoted through prior business) Crovan (gave props to Wylker) Korasen Linachi (has 100% trust) Adam Weishaupt (gave props to Wylker) Vulture Virtue (director gave major props to Wylker) Jim Linger (said he vouches for Wylker) Admiral Fridge (another vouch for Wylker) Raquel Smith (knows where Wylker lives in RL) Tychus (gave Wylker props) Spanky McFarlan (gave Wylker props) Ender Darklight (gave Wylker props) Astro Teller (gave Wylker props) Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.18 20:23:00 - [279] Originally by: Daeva Vios Make absolutely certain you include the names of those individuals who vouched for him or have spoken for him in some capacity or another. They've thrown their support in, and they need to be dragged down as well. Financial matters may not weigh very heavily in the minds of most EVE players, but trust does matter. The community needs to know that they're the sort who will go above and beyond to violate trust. There's an easy way to prevent further escalation, Wylker. Indeed - I got this idea after watching Sicko last night, need some of those bull**** eve mails done by Wylker's corpmate to work into the report please, paste them here or eve-mail them to Kirjava please
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.18 20:24:00 - [280] Thankyou Vista
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.11.18 23:42:00 - [281] it could still be part of that (claiming-to-represent) GHSC post of scamming gazillions of iskies. but like i said, i'm down to either 3 or 5 shares; so um, if resx would list psi.... solid liquid
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.11.18 23:52:00 - [282] i wonder what he bought with the 60 billion isk? solid liquid
Treelox Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.11.19 00:46:00 - [283] Originally by: Kirjava Any ideas how much this would cost? Do they own any outposts's that could be taken and auctioned off? no idea how much it would cost a few billion at least. As to outpost taken and what not, no idea. My plan would just be to make the bleed as much as possible in hopes of making us feel better. We would sort of need to start an "ipo" of sorts to just raise the capital to get MC involved, and then I dont think that we would make any profit out of it persay. Although it would send an excellent message to people that you better make sure you know who you vouch for before you do it. --
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.19 01:02:00 - [284] Originally by: Treelox Although it would send an excellent message to people that you better make sure you know who you vouch for before you do it. Heck, I'd possibly kick in some money just to reinforce this message even though I didn't invest in the original IPO at all and haven't lost a thing. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Meleil	Posted - 2007.11.19 01:33:00 - [285] Quote: Any ideas how much this would cost? Do they own any outposts's that could be taken and auctioned off? It would cost in the area of 10-30 bil to hire MC to do any significant harm. (rough guess based on their last contract) All depends on what we want them to do... As far as I can tell 'The Church', which is the alliance Wylker's corp is in own no outposts whatsoever. ~Mel
Treelox Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.11.19 02:15:00 - [286] Edited by: Treelox on 19/11/2007 02:17:43 Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Treelox Although it would send an excellent message to people that you better make sure you know who you vouch for before you do it. Heck, I'd possibly kick in some money just to reinforce this message even though I didn't invest in the original IPO at all and haven't lost a thing. I dont nor have I ever owned any stock in this public corp, but it sickens me with the ammount of crap that has occured. OFC I would like to see some of the actual stockholders take the banner and run with this idea. --
Treelox Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.11.19 02:17:00 - [287] Originally by: Meleil Quote: Any ideas how much this would cost? Do they own any outposts's that could be taken and auctioned off? It would cost in the area of 10-30 bil to hire MC to do any significant harm. (rough guess based on their last contract) All depends on what we want them to do... As far as I can tell 'The Church', which is the alliance Wylker's corp is in own no outposts whatsoever. ~Mel I have heard of even cheaper contract prices than that, but it all depends on what the mission is, how long it last for, how much intel you can provide them before the deploy, etc etc. Besides who knows, maybe we will get a discount, because its a "restitution/repo" sort of job. --
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2007.11.19 08:09:00 - [288] I think that a lot of these ventures start legit and then due to boredom, change in real life, etc - the IPO runner decides to just keep the money and claim it as a "scam". Unfortunately, the game doesnt have legal avenues of recourse as we would in real life - but then luckily this game allows payback as in hunting them down and podding them - or worse - where as in real life does not. I hope you guys get your ISK back. Web design for Eve corps \| Perth players join chan PerthChat
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.19 08:18:00 - [289] Originally by: Astorothe I think that a lot of these ventures start legit and then due to boredom, change in real life, etc - the IPO runner decides to just keep the money and claim it as a "scam" Can't be boredom as he has only been running it 3 months and not paid any dividends yet.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.11.19 10:04:00 - [290] Originally by: Ricdic's Hoe Originally by: Astorothe I think that a lot of these ventures start legit and then due to boredom, change in real life, etc - the IPO runner decides to just keep the money and claim it as a "scam" Can't be boredom as he has only been running it 3 months and not paid any dividends yet. And he's posting like a maniac, as usual, on SHC. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated)
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2007.11.19 10:19:00 - [291] Originally by: Dark Shikari And he's posting like a maniac, as usual, on SHC. SHC? Web design for Eve corps \| Perth players join chan PerthChat
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.11.19 10:25:00 - [292] Originally by: Astorothe Originally by: Dark Shikari And he's posting like a maniac, as usual, on SHC. SHC? Scrapheap Challenge... 23 Member EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated)
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2007.11.19 11:00:00 - [293] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Astorothe Originally by: Dark Shikari And he's posting like a maniac, as usual, on SHC. SHC? Scrapheap Challenge... its where banned and/or retired eve-o forum warriors go. Sort of the Vahalla of this forums fallen warriors. --
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2007.11.19 11:15:00 - [294] Ahh - right, I thought maybe he meant General Discussion or CAOD. =/ Web design for Eve corps \| Perth players join chan PerthChat
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2007.11.19 11:20:00 - [295] Originally by: Astorothe Ahh - right, I thought maybe he meant General Discussion or CAOD. =/ His last post on eve-o was on the 13th, in CAOD. Evidence But as you can see, he is an utter forum ***** on SHC --
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.19 11:36:00 - [296] Since SCH seems to be Wylker's home area, a post was made on there: http://scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=10508 But eh, seems like it was locked. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2007.11.19 11:41:00 - [297] Originally by: LaVista Vista Since SCH seems to be Wylker's home area, a post was made on there: http://scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=10508 But eh, seems like it was locked. CD might reopen it, if he was shown this thread....maybe..... At this point, I think its time for the investor base to start to begin to destroy his reputation. --
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.19 12:27:00 - [298] Originally by: Treelox Originally by: LaVista Vista Since SCH seems to be Wylker's home area, a post was made on there: http://scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=10508 But eh, seems like it was locked. CD might reopen it, if he was shown this thread....maybe..... At this point, I think its time for the investor base to start to begin to destroy his reputation. I already PM'ed calmdown, and asked him to reopen my thread. Not only was that thread a call to get Wylker to talk, but if he doesnt, he will destroy his reputation all by himself. So its win-win. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Digital Nightfall	Posted - 2007.11.19 12:42:00 - [299] Quote: Of course, in the world of eve, all you have is reputation. I have been playing this game for a year, and in that time have only been in 2 corporations. The second corporation is made up mainly of people with whom I left the first corporation. All this really means is that IÆm dedicated to my friends and have been for a year but itÆs a start I guess. In that time, I have had two significant projects that involved other peopleÆs money. The first was when I was barely 3 months old, and launched a 6 POS tower effort to produce a very complicated advanced reaction, move the reaction to empire, and sell it for a profit. The plan went exactly according to schedule, and we were profiting nearly 2 billion isk per month just off the reaction. If we had not left ISS during the IAC war, I would likely still be doing this reaction. Every investor in that project was repaid their initial investment along with any available dividends when I cancelled the project. I will try to get some of them to post here. Other than that, you will see that while I have very strong opinions on matters throughout the forums, I am very consistent and loyal to my allies. I wish I had some way to express to you how important I think business ethics are and how I believe that businesses have a moral responsibility, but beyond simple statements I have no way of proving that to you. In addition, I possessed all hangar and POS roles in my ISS corp, and when we left (it was not very amicable) none of us took so much as 1 isk from The Praxis Initiative. Finally, I was a founder and director of my current corp, and recently voluntarily stopped being an active director as my play time was greatly reduced and I did not want to do a disservice to my corp. /barf - what an absolute miserable sob.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.19 15:24:00 - [300] Edited by: Wylker on 19/11/2007 15:24:58 Hi! Eve-O forum ban is lifted, and I managed to proxy in from work. I'll give everyone some information some time today, when I get some down time here. I understand that people are upset, heck I would be too. I'd apologize for the lack of communication but I'd have to amend it to not be directed at the people who are posting their nerd-rage in this thread (please hire the MC to attack us btw). To everyone else, this has never been intended to be a scam or anything of that sort. I've managed to survive huge amounts of peer pressure from Trixie to steal everyone's isk and all the assets are still safely in 2 stations in high and low sec. Anyway, more to come this afternoon/night when I get caught up at work. edit PS. stop asking Calmdown about this IPO. He doesn't know anout it, is not involved in it, and the fact that he happens to admin a fan site that I frequent doesn't mean he should be your go-to guy for problems. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.19 15:29:00 - [301] I can wait a few hours How did you manage a forum ban on one section of the forums? Didn't know that was possible
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.19 15:30:00 - [302] Originally by: Wylker edit PS. stop asking Calmdown about this IPO. He doesn't know anout it, is not involved in it, and the fact that he happens to admin a fan site that I frequent doesn't mean he should be your go-to guy for problems. sigh read the posts before you tell people to stop something they never did, please? Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Ambo 2nd Outcasters	Posted - 2007.11.19 15:32:00 - [303] Originally by: Wylker I understand that people are upset, heck I would be too. I'd apologize for the lack of communication but I'd have to amend it to not be directed at the people who are posting their nerd-rage in this thread (please hire the MC to attack us btw). What a bizzare comment... Other than that, good to hear it's not a lost cause even if I had nothing invested.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.19 15:33:00 - [304] Originally by: Ricdic's Hoe I can wait a few hours How did you manage a forum ban on one section of the forums? Didn't know that was possible This. Where the hell have you been Wylker, didn't you tell people you were banned? This is the first I have heard of this.....
Calmdown Minmatar BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.19 15:33:00 - [305] Actually people have been PMing me quite a lot about this, I PM'd Wylker today and asked him to set the record straight to save me answering questions about something I have absolutely no clue about :) RIP Testy Mctest - You were truly a king among alts! Scrapheap Challenge Forums
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.19 15:35:00 - [306] Originally by: Calmdown Actually people have been PMing me quite a lot about this, I PM'd Wylker today and asked him to set the record straight to save me answering questions about something I have absolutely no clue about :) Amazingly (no offence) this seems to have been the correcyt course of action in the end
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.19 15:37:00 - [307] Originally by: Calmdown Actually people have been PMing me quite a lot about this, I PM'd Wylker today and asked him to set the record straight to save me answering questions about something I have absolutely no clue about :) Really? How many? Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.19 15:42:00 - [308] Edited by: Shadarle on 19/11/2007 15:43:38 Originally by: Eve-Online Forums - Last 2 Posts By Wylker Last 15 Posts - Edited by: Wylker on 19/11/2007 15:24:58 Hi!Eve-O forum ban is lifted, and I managed to proxy in fr ...19/11/2007 15:24:00 - OP: Welcome to a year ago. ...13/11/2007 22:03:00 Originally by: Wylker Eve-O forum ban is lifted I don't think the best way to restore trust is to start off with a lie. Originally by: Wylker I understand that people are upset, heck I would be too. I'd apologize for the lack of communication but I'd have to amend it to not be directed at the people who are posting their nerd-rage in this thread (please hire the MC to attack us btw). You know people are mad, but you won't apologize to anyone who actually expressed how mad they were. Makes total sense... Originally by: Wylker I've managed to survive huge amounts of peer pressure from Trixie to steal everyone's isk and all the assets are still safely in 2 stations in high and low sec. Wow, you are a beacon of virtue! You managed to overcome peer pressure to do something which you swore you'd never do! What an amazingly strong person you are. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.19 15:49:00 - [309] Originally by: Shadarle Edited by: Shadarle on 19/11/2007 15:43:38 Originally by: Eve-Online Forums - Last 2 Posts By Wylker Last 15 Posts - Edited by: Wylker on 19/11/2007 15:24:58 Hi!Eve-O forum ban is lifted, and I managed to proxy in fr ...19/11/2007 15:24:00 - OP: Welcome to a year ago. ...13/11/2007 22:03:00 I don't think the best way to restore trust is to start off with a lie. Notice the week between those posts? Hehe. Quote: You know people are mad, but you won't apologize to anyone who actually expressed how mad they were. Makes total sense... No theres a difference between "I'm mad" and "Lets get MC to blow up all their 0.0 assets, AND lets get a list of his friends and blow their ** up too" Quote:** Wow, you are a beacon of virtue! You managed to overcome peer pressure to do something which you swore you'd never do! What an amazingly strong person you are. Thanks! Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.19 15:52:00 - [310] Originally by: Ricdic's Hoe I can wait a few hours How did you manage a forum ban on one section of the forums? Didn't know that was possible It wasn't, I had a 7 day ban from some CAOD smacktalk. PS. Everyone should be giving Ricdic and LV a lot of thanks, they really look after the members of this little section of eve. Ok, enough whoring, I'll be on tonight with some answers and a plan of action. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.19 15:53:00 - [311] Edited by: LaVista Vista on 19/11/2007 15:54:55 Edited by: LaVista Vista on 19/11/2007 15:54:25 Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Shadarle Edited by: Shadarle on 19/11/2007 15:43:38 Originally by: Eve-Online Forums - Last 2 Posts By Wylker Last 15 Posts - Edited by: Wylker on 19/11/2007 15:24:58 Hi!Eve-O forum ban is lifted, and I managed to proxy in fr ...19/11/2007 15:24:00 - OP: Welcome to a year ago. ...13/11/2007 22:03:00 I don't think the best way to restore trust is to start off with a lie. Notice the week between those posts? Hehe. Does that excuse you from never posting updates, even before the ban? Or maybe communicate in your mailing list? Maybe have a corp mate post a post from you, containing all the info? Hell, maybe even post it on SHC, and im sure we would pick up on it! I gave this advice to a new dude who just started his IPO. Communicate whatever it takes, and be consistent. Dont answer maybe all the time, if you even post. I hope you will work it all out tho :) Im looking very much forward to your plan. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2007.11.19 15:56:00 - [312] Originally by: Wylker Notice the week between those posts? Hehe. looks like 6 days to me, ISD gives out 6day bans? Thanks for that knowledge, for some reason I thought they came in 1day, 7day and permanent flavors. :) --
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.19 15:56:00 - [313] Instead of joining into a **ing match with justifiably upset people you need to be delivering a clear message as to what you intend to do. As it is it seems like you intend to make enemies of the people who trusted you. All the other matters raised, no matter what was said, is your fault. Lack of communication, of any kind, is a fertile ground for hostility. Reap the harvest. In essence, you've lost investor confidence. You've only got one real option and that is to close down. However you are not striking me as someone who is in the least bit concerned about your credibility and/or succeeding at this ipo. You've gotten what you wanted and I think you are going to abscond with it. It's A GIRL!!!!!**
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.19 15:58:00 - [314] No it doesn't excuse it, and tbh I'm not looking to excuse it. I had intended to put this post up a few days ago though (on the 15th) and was unable to. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2007.11.19 15:59:00 - [315] Edited by: Treelox on 19/11/2007 16:00:47 Originally by: Wylker It wasn't, I had a 7 day ban from some CAOD smacktalk. PS. and you accuse some of us of nerd rage........ -- edit missed a "c" somewhere the first time around --
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.19 16:12:00 - [316] Originally by: Wylker I'd have to amend it to not be directed at the people who are posting their nerd-rage in this thread (please hire the MC to attack us btw). Genius tact in word's for your business relations. As I see, it was you that made up a business plan and sold it in a game to build sell and essentialy role play an accountant, so why when people get angry at you for stopping all communication do you call it "nerd-rage"?
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.19 16:14:00 - [317] I'm so glad I posted today, I was hoping to get trolled a bit before lunch. On a side note, whats with all the isk seller spam sigs? I didn't even realize it was different people until just now. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.19 16:20:00 - [318] Originally by: Wylker I'm so glad I posted today, I was hoping to get trolled a bit before lunch. On a side note, whats with all the isk seller spam sigs? I didn't even realize it was different people until just now. Wylker you have had the majority of your investor's getting rid of stocks in you as fast as they could, you are getting trolled and flamed by people who trusted you with their ISK, who beleived that you would at the very least have communication and early on ignored criticism for your plan by expanding into a dieing and saturated market. If you regularly visited the forums, you would notice we have an epidemic of bot's spamming every page and thread every couple of day's -people are REALY ****ed off at it.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.19 16:24:00 - [319] Originally by: Wylker I'm so glad I posted today, I was hoping to get trolled a bit before lunch. On a side note, whats with all the isk seller spam sigs? I didn't even realize it was different people until just now. LOL. Calling 100% justified annoyance and criticism trolling... you are really on fire today! The reason to show you posted on the 13th was to show that you could have posted in this thread on the 13th as well. But you didn't. You chose to engage in "nerd-rage" on CAOD and get yourself banned instead of informing your investors of the status of your IPO. Then, you chose not to reply in your mailing list to questions being raised. You also chose not to have a friend or corp mate post a message for you. You also had a friend of yours coming out and stating you should scam everyone. Then you have the temerity to claim people are trolling by holding your feet to the fire? LOL Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Naphtalia The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2007.11.19 16:32:00 - [320] I suggest we all calm down, and give him a chance to come up with something... The way the annoying mob is going, you run the risk of forcing his hand instead of giving him the benefit of the doubt. By being calm the worse thing that can happen is to be devoid of the chance of raging. The best thing is a profitable IPO and/or Liquidation. Cheers... Recruitment - Guristas Associates
May Shiko	Posted - 2007.11.19 16:33:00 - [321] I'm one of those people who didn't invest (I didn't have cash at the time). Cutting to the chase, I'm glad I didn't. To exert some forum warrioring; I have asked ISD in the past regarding forum bans, it is only 1day and 7day forum bans; As Shadarle mentioned, don't start off with a lie. 6 days =/= 1 or 7. What about everything up until the day you magically got banned? From everything I've followed up on and discussed with other people (being a new manager to the scene, I'm tenacious in my research to find out what to do and what not to do), you've failed to communicate. Which I should mention; was something you promised in your initial plan You're also a hypocrite, accusing a bunch of people of nerd rage, when you claim to have been banned for the exact same thing. The point of this post? I think you've pretty much screwed your reputation even if you do refund 100% of all funds (even if you have to go into your own pocket) Your business plan failed, as a manager you failed, and yes it is a case of hindsight being 20/20 for people who had invested in you, but you accepted responsibility to these people when you accepted their internet spaceship money. You, and your method of managing a public venture, sir, will serve as a fresh and ripe example to IPO managers like myself of what exactly not to do. Enjoy the reputation you've cultivated. On topic: Sorry to hear you've had such a trouble in the capital market, people did try to warn you about it tanking. =\
Naphtalia The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2007.11.19 16:36:00 - [322] Originally by: May Shiko stuff... Not a bad post, however, you didn't invest, and I am sure you can bask in your own glow of righteousness.... trying to force him to run away with the isk and say "**** it all" doesn't make your decision not to invest more brilliant. Leave the shouting to people that actually invested, if they are happy to see what comes up this evening, let them be. Recruitment - Guristas Associates
John Newport Caldari Newport Family Trust Fund	Posted - 2007.11.19 16:38:00 - [323] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Wylker I'm so glad I posted today, I was hoping to get trolled a bit before lunch. On a side note, whats with all the isk seller spam sigs? I didn't even realize it was different people until just now. LOL. Calling 100% justified annoyance and criticism trolling... you are really on fire today! The reason to show you posted on the 13th was to show that you could have posted in this thread on the 13th as well. But you didn't. You chose to engage in "nerd-rage" on CAOD and get yourself banned instead of informing your investors of the status of your IPO. Then, you chose not to reply in your mailing list to questions being raised. You also chose not to have a friend or corp mate post a message for you. You also had a friend of yours coming out and stating you should scam everyone. Then you have the temerity to claim people are trolling by holding your feet to the fire? LOL I won't deny agreeing with the things you say here Shadarle, but you said you had nothing invested in this venture. Perhaps it's not fair to throw oil on an already huge fire here and have the investors and Wylker work it out first, before we "neutrals" get judgemental. John Newport Small Time Investor.
May Shiko	Posted - 2007.11.19 16:40:00 - [324] Originally by: Naphtalia Originally by: May Shiko stuff... stuff¦ Just because I didn't invest doesn't mean I didn't come across some PSI shares back in september from a friend that are on a holding alt. But this is off topic and irrelevant, I own at least one PSI share even though I didn't invest any of my own cash into it, as such I am entitle to an opinion.
Naphtalia The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2007.11.19 16:51:00 - [325] Originally by: May Shiko Originally by: Naphtalia Originally by: May Shiko stuff... stuff¦ Just because I didn't invest doesn't mean I didn't come across some PSI shares back in september from a friend that are on a holding alt. But this is off topic and irrelevant, I own at least one PSI share even though I didn't invest any of my own cash into it, as such I am entitle to an opinion. wtf? What has 'being entitled to an opinion' have anything to do with it? What I am saying is: No need to be destructive and try to make Wylker change his mind (back) to scamzor if you have nothing to lose.... and even if you DO have anything to lose it still isn't a smart idea... So he didn't respond for 1 week, so he has a lot of isk... so he did get called names... So you have an opinion.. (that he is a liar/scam/cheat genuine bastard, whatever) you still have 2 choices: 1) Keep your opionion to yourself on the chance you are wrong and he turns into a great CEO and/or he reimburses everyone 2) Out your opinion from the top of your lungs, with the risk that he gets ****ed off beyond belief and maybe scams anyways. Funny thing is... doing 1) has no risk (besides lacking the i-told-you-so factor) and 2) has a lot of risk. Meh, breathe, drink water... and shout again in a week... :) Recruitment - Guristas Associates
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.19 16:55:00 - [326] Originally by: Naphtalia So he didn't respond for 1 week, so he has a lot of isk... so he did get called names... So you have an opinion.. (that he is a liar/scam/cheat genuine bastard, whatever) We arent talking 1 week good Naph. We are talking way longer. The only updates prior to today, have been very arrogant posts saying "STFU IM WORKING", and then he gone MIA. He isnt following his plan, and is now lying. You dont see what people are comming at? I fully get your point. But you make it sound like people are angry because of a small thing. It isnt a small thing. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.11.19 17:03:00 - [327] So not only did you all got scammed, you bow down, beg and kiss his feet in the vain hope that he returns some of the cash? This has to be one of the most humiliating, crushing victories ever in eve, good job Wylker.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.19 17:12:00 - [328] Originally by: LaVista Vista And where do you see that he actually pulled scam, unless you are wylker? Now now Vista, let's not let this become a witch hunt.
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.19 17:14:00 - [329] Originally by: Kirjava Originally by: LaVista Vista And where do you see that he actually pulled scam, unless you are wylker? Now now Vista, let's not let this become a witch hunt. Isnt a witch hunt. I merely questioned how he would know that it was a scam, unless he was wylker himself. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Naphtalia The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2007.11.19 17:17:00 - [330] Originally by: Kirjava Originally by: Argenton Sayvers So not only did you all got scammed, you bow down, beg and kiss his feet in the vain hope that he returns some of the cash? This has to be one of the most humiliating, crushing victories ever in eve, good job Wylker. Naphtalia is the one that is assuming Wylker even bought the carrier BPO in the first place. On another note - I did not invest in Wylker myself, but am as an IPO runner am upset that it happened, whenever a large profile one like this scam's people stop investing in new IPO's, so I have nothing personaly to gain by fighting on other people's behalf. I don't asume anything, I don't even know what the IPO is about (obviously a carrier BPO) I just know that: People that have not invested, flaming a possible scammer, increases the chance of it becoming an actual scam, with the only "gain" for the flamers is internet-epeen-points. I don't think that is right, nor fair to the investors, that is all. Recruitment - Guristas Associates
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.19 17:18:00 - [331] Edited by: Ricdic''s Hoe on 19/11/2007 17:19:12 There is no scam at this point. Until Wylker calls it as a scam or we see where the path takes us, lets not address it as one. Sure, we can definetly say some things have been seriously screwed up but a failure will/can result in partial reimbursement. A scam results in zero reimbursement. Lets see where things go and what is said tonight first. Argenton do you really enjoy coming into these forums from time to time to show off your epeen? Fact is there are 10 good businesses out there for every sour 1. You just keep your head so far up your (insert favourite orifice) that you only come out to play when something like this happens to yell "i told you so" which proves nothing. Hell, it isn't a scam yet anyway. edit: Typo
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.19 17:26:00 - [332] Originally by: Naphtalia I don't asume anything, I don't even know what the IPO is about (obviously a carrier BPO) I just know that: Originally by: Naphtalia So he didn't respond for 1 week, so he has a lot of isk... Isnt this an asumption? A wrong one too. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.11.19 17:27:00 - [333] Since witty short posts dont seem to go well, some explanation: A total nobody asks for 40b or so of ISK, shows absolutely nothing for about 5 months, and ridicules any criticsm whatsoever as trolling. The simple fact that he still has your cash without paying an ISK: SCAM. I dont need to be Wylker to know that. You didnt get what you paid for. And about people flamming Wylker. He managed to find investors for this business plan, and he (in theory) should be ever thankfull. Instead he is insulting and arrogant. For my tastes,the "OMG lets give him one more chance" to the "find out alts, find out friends, find out lose associates, find out one-time gangmates, then grief them out of EvE, then snap and hire RL mercs to camp his RL home" ratio should be aproaching zero. [1:n ~ zero for large n] Ricdics post above is the perfect example of what i am talking about. I never wrote that detailed essay on eve investments, maybe i will after Trinity. So i dont claim wisdom. However, this thread makes it all too easy. You are all just giving scammers ideas.
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.19 17:34:00 - [334] Edited by: LaVista Vista on 19/11/2007 17:34:39 Originally by: Argenton Sayvers Since witty short posts dont seem to go well, some explanation: A total nobody asks for 40b or so of ISK, shows absolutely nothing for about 5 months, and ridicules any criticsm whatsoever as trolling. The simple fact that he still has your cash without paying an ISK: SCAM. I dont need to be Wylker to know that. You didnt get what you paid for. And about people flamming Wylker. He managed to find investors for this business plan, and he (in theory) should be ever thankfull. Instead he is insulting and arrogant. For my tastes,the "OMG lets give him one more chance" to the "find out alts, find out friends, find out lose associates, find out one-time gangmates, then grief them out of EvE, then snap and hire RL mercs to camp his RL home" ratio should be aproaching zero. [1:n ~ zero for large n] Ricdics post above is the perfect example of what i am talking about. I never wrote that detailed essay on eve investments, maybe i will after Trinity. So i dont claim wisdom. However, this thread makes it all too easy. You are all just giving scammers ideas. I was a total nobody aswell when i started, and asked for 20bill. Nobody knew me. Wylker had backup from people like Crovan, who i have spoken with personally. And i find him to a be trustworthy person. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.19 18:07:00 - [335] Originally by: Argenton Sayvers Ricdics post above is the perfect example of what i am talking about. No, my post is an example of someone looking to not push Wylker over the edge. Maybe he is already there, maybe not. But your post doesn't help the matter one bit. Obviously you don't care as it doesn't affect you in the slightest and you are more interested in talking trash. Naph explained above why we are doing this. But hey, keep pushing it. You can be the straw that broke the camel's back, and then feel great about being one of the few that finished the job and helped ensure people's isk was lost. Right now things don't look too crash hot but there is still some hope. Give us the decency of keeping it to yourself and not calling a scam until you can factually state it as such.
Rascyr Tempered Steel Legion	Posted - 2007.11.19 18:18:00 - [336] Originally by: John Newport Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Wylker I'm so glad I posted today, I was hoping to get trolled a bit before lunch. On a side note, whats with all the isk seller spam sigs? I didn't even realize it was different people until just now. LOL. Calling 100% justified annoyance and criticism trolling... you are really on fire today! The reason to show you posted on the 13th was to show that you could have posted in this thread on the 13th as well. But you didn't. You chose to engage in "nerd-rage" on CAOD and get yourself banned instead of informing your investors of the status of your IPO. Then, you chose not to reply in your mailing list to questions being raised. You also chose not to have a friend or corp mate post a message for you. You also had a friend of yours coming out and stating you should scam everyone. Then you have the temerity to claim people are trolling by holding your feet to the fire? LOL I won't deny agreeing with the things you say here Shadarle, but you said you had nothing invested in this venture. Perhaps it's not fair to throw oil on an already huge fire here and have the investors and Wylker work it out first, before we "neutrals" get judgemental. John Newport Small Time Investor. This!
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.19 18:19:00 - [337] Useless specultation is a waste of time and energy. Wait for his report tonight. Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.11.19 18:47:00 - [338] Originally by: Argenton Sayvers Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 19/11/2007 17:41:08 Since witty short posts dont seem to go well, some explanation: A total nobody asks for 40b or so of ISK, shows absolutely nothing for about 5 months, and ridicules any criticsm whatsoever as trolling. The simple fact that he still has your cash without paying an ISK: SCAM. I dont need to be Wylker to know that. You didnt get what you paid for. And about people flamming Wylker. He managed to find investors for this business plan, and he (in theory) should be ever thankfull. Instead he is insulting and arrogant. For my tastes,the "OMG lets give him one more chance" to the "find out alts, find out friends, find out loose associates, find out one-time gangmates, then grief them out of EvE, then snap and hire RL mercs to camp his RL home" ratio should be approaching zero. [1:n ~ zero for large n] Ricdics post above is the perfect example of what i am talking about. I never wrote that detailed essay on eve investments, maybe i will after Trinity. So i dont claim wisdom. However, this thread makes it all too easy. You are all just giving scammers ideas. edit: thanks for quoting my post before i could edit all those damn speelling mistakes out... who is your main? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.11.19 18:57:00 - [339] Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 19/11/2007 19:03:17 Originally by: Ricdic's Hoe No, my post is an example of someone looking to not push Wylker over the edge. Look at what i said in my first post in this thread. Now look at your reaction. Now granted, i dont like to spell out things, even complicated concepts, but look at it this way: how is "investment" ever supposed to work properly when investors are behaving like powerless, self-humiliating victims? This thread is a perfect metaphor for the entire financial scene. You give someone ISK. And then you are at HIS mercy. Total reversal from how people expect investments to work. So from a roleplaying PoV, an investor is a slave / beggar / victim - and from a metagaming / powergaming PoV, there are 100 things a lot better then shares. While its true that the only way to really hurt someone in eve is to find out his RL identity and do shenigans with that information, in this special case you could at least have fun with those Aftermath guys (IG of course). Too bad that "pay up or veld mining in empire" is no longer a threat, but a promise for 0.0 Alliances. Originally by: SiJira who is your main? I could tell you, but would you believe me?
SiJira	Posted - 2007.11.19 19:07:00 - [340] Originally by: Argenton Sayvers Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 19/11/2007 19:03:17 Originally by: Ricdic's Hoe No, my post is an example of someone looking to not push Wylker over the edge. Look at what i said in my first post in this thread. Now look at your reaction. Now granted, i dont like to spell out things, even complicated concepts, but look at it this way: how is "investment" ever supposed to work properly when investors are behaving like powerless, self-humiliating victims? This thread is a perfect metaphor for the entire financial scene. You give someone ISK. And then you are at HIS mercy. Total reversal from how people expect investments to work. So from a roleplaying PoV, an investor is a slave / beggar / victim - and from a metagaming / powergaming PoV, there are 100 things a lot better then shares. While its true that the only way to really hurt someone in eve is to find out his RL identity and do shenigans with that information, in this special case you could at least have fun with those Aftermath guys (IG of course). Too bad that "pay up or veld mining in empire" is no longer a threat, but a promise for 0.0 Alliances. Originally by: SiJira who is your main? I could tell you, but would you believe me? go away flamer ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.11.19 19:08:00 - [341] Originally by: Argenton Sayvers This thread is a perfect metaphor for the entire financial scene. You give someone ISK. And then you are at HIS mercy. Total reversal from how people expect investments to work. So from a roleplaying PoV, an investor is a slave / beggar / victim - and from a metagaming / powergaming PoV, there are 100 things a lot better then shares. We have a winner. Thread over. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated)
Nicho Void Hyper-Nova Tenth Legion	Posted - 2007.11.19 19:22:00 - [342] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Argenton Sayvers This thread is a perfect metaphor for the entire financial scene. You give someone ISK. And then you are at HIS mercy. Total reversal from how people expect investments to work. So from a roleplaying PoV, an investor is a slave / beggar / victim - and from a metagaming / powergaming PoV, there are 100 things a lot better then shares. We have a winner. Thread over. Agreed. My first and last investment attempt. ---------------
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.19 20:47:00 - [343] Originally by: Nicho Void My first and last investment attempt. My first also, but plenty of good ones have come along before and since. Don't lose heart altogether. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Richard Kitan United Space Republic Research	Posted - 2007.11.19 20:50:00 - [344] This was my first investment also, but I learned a bit from it, and have also found some solid investments since then - FRPB in particular. I wish I had invested a lot more in that. -- Richard Kitan Builder of Stuff
Mining Bunnz ElArms International	Posted - 2007.11.20 00:44:00 - [345] Let me start by prefacing this comment with a simple statement. I am an investor in PSI, holding 250m worth of shares. By no means a big amount, but then, its actually 1/160th of the total raised capital. I would strongly suggest that anyone who doesn't or wont preface their comments with a statement of their level of investment simply do not post. Those who do can stand on your high horse and jump up and down as much as you like. You CHOSE not to invest in a plan that involved an overcrowded market. You made your comments (in a lot of cases) known well in advance, now you have NO REASON to be involved in the decision making process for this investment vehicle. There are no public shares for sale, they are not listed on exchanges. I'll be fair and credit most of you with good intentions, believing that investors deserve better. As one of those investors, I'm here to say that I can and will protect my own interests far better than any group of forumers who think that my interests may be slighted. If you are not acting directly on behalf of someone who holds, or used to hold, PSI shares, then you are not positively contributing to this thread anymore. Its that simple. Please stop. I agree with the point Ric is making. The majority of attacks of Wylker's character here come from people not invested in his operation, which makes me wonder if I should be crediting you with good intentions, or whether there are alterior motives here. Wylker, Bad business sense, a nasty nerf to your product range, all this can be discussed and worked out. Not talking to your investors (and I'm sorry bud, the ingame mailing list is not an option, given where it was taken I will NOT be signing up again) is not so clever, as you can no doubt see from the results here. Looking forward to hearing what you have to say tonight and in a round about way, backing your decision to ignore comments from people who are not invested in your operations.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.20 01:30:00 - [346] Originally by: Mining Bunnz Let me start by prefacing this comment with a simple statement. I am an investor in PSI, holding 250m worth of shares. By no means a big amount, but then, its actually 1/160th of the total raised capital. I would strongly suggest that anyone who doesn't or wont preface their comments with a statement of their level of investment simply do not post. Those who do can stand on your high horse and jump up and down as much as you like. You CHOSE not to invest in a plan that involved an overcrowded market. You made your comments (in a lot of cases) known well in advance, now you have NO REASON to be involved in the decision making process for this investment vehicle. There are no public shares for sale, they are not listed on exchanges. I'll be fair and credit most of you with good intentions, believing that investors deserve better. As one of those investors, I'm here to say that I can and will protect my own interests far better than any group of forumers who think that my interests may be slighted. If you are not acting directly on behalf of someone who holds, or used to hold, PSI shares, then you are not positively contributing to this thread anymore. Its that simple. Please stop. I agree with the point Ric is making. The majority of attacks of Wylker's character here come from people not invested in his operation, which makes me wonder if I should be crediting you with good intentions, or whether there are alterior motives here. Wylker, Bad business sense, a nasty nerf to your product range, all this can be discussed and worked out. Not talking to your investors (and I'm sorry bud, the ingame mailing list is not an option, given where it was taken I will NOT be signing up again) is not so clever, as you can no doubt see from the results here. Looking forward to hearing what you have to say tonight and in a round about way, backing your decision to ignore comments from people who are not invested in your operations. This was nice to read, thanks. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.20 01:41:00 - [347] Ok my original inclination was to lay out where I thought everything went wrong. However, after reading over this thread again I guess I really don't see the point of trying to explain. I'll of course take full responsibility for dropping the ball with communication with you guys. If you want I can make a bunch of excuses as to what I had going on and/or reasons why I fell off the face of eve-o for a while (however, I doubt anyone wants that). That being said, I have managed to put together two or three ideas that I think can help keep this a profitable venture. I know we all entered into this together with the idea to make some money, and frankly I had firm commitments from buyers that would have allowed us to break even my very high estimates for returns. All that aside, lets look at the here and now: I hold around 60 billion worth of assets from the isk generated from this IPO. These take the form of blueprints, minerals, a freighter, and some POS assets (3 large faction towers + fittings). I know that some people would like to see this all liquidated and returned to investors. This is a possibility. However know that there can be no "partial" liquidation. These assets were invested in building carrier and mothership class capitals, and can not be easily broken apart. Minerals of course can be liquidated, and can generally be done with little threat of loss. The blueprints however, represent a very difficult asset to divest of right now. With the same problems that faced this business, the premium prices that researched blueprints used to get are all but non-existent. Of course, I could be wrong here and someone may help us break back even on these prints. With all that in mind, I could embark on an effort to liquidate all of PSIs assets and try to begin repurchasing shares. I would really like to avoid this. The other two options both involve jumping on the gravy train that is approaching with Rev 3. The ability to corner the new market on new T2 ships will offer some spectacular short term and regular long term revenues to anyone that can pull it off. I have had some input from some of the shareholders that make both Jump Freighters, T2 battleships, and Rorquals seem like very smart investitures for the foreseeable future. This venture is in a very positive position, as I already have assets and characters in place to immediately capitalize on these items as soon as they hit live servers. I'd like to open this thread to some discussion from actual shareholders as to the possibility of changing direction and getting some of those returns we all originally wanted to see. Keep in mind that I accounted for over 1/3 of the original investment so am as tied in to this project as anyone else. At the end of the day on Saturday, I will initiate a vote for all shareholders to make a decision that I will abide by as per the future of the IPO. If you have questions, feel free to post them and I will answer them as I can. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2007.11.20 01:54:00 - [348] Well I would like to see a more formal idea rather than just "rorqual production etc". However, for rorqaul, jump freighters etc, you still need to liquidate existing stocks. As a shareholder I want the ability to remove myself from this investment. I would like to see at least a small portion (ie 5-10b) worth of assets liquidated, and a buyback being made available on this. That way people who really want to go can do so peacefully. Those of us who are really unhappy are likely at a point where they don't care if you get 5% returns or 50% monthly returns. I simply don't feel comfortable having any of my money in there. That's not to say that others won't give you a chance to prove yourself. However I do want to see a portion of funds placed aside for a buyback as that's the only real interest I have at this point. Glad to see you back either way.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.20 02:29:00 - [349] I should probably clarify. I have specific plans for production, one would be for Rorquals, one is for Rorquals + T2 freighters, and one is for Rorquals + T2 freighters + new T2 cruisers and battleships. I didn't want to go overboard with details until people had a chance to discuss. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.20 03:02:00 - [350] Originally by: Wylker With all that in mind, I could embark on an effort to liquidate all of PSIs assets and try to begin repurchasing shares. I would really like to avoid this. I'll be voting for complete liquidation, on the most reasonably expeditious time line. I think you should consider Ricdic's offer of assistance to that end. Your other options may indeed be profitable. But without overtly polluting this post with hostility, I'd rather invest in those plans with someone else at the helm. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Richard Kitan United Space Republic Research	Posted - 2007.11.20 03:27:00 - [351] I don't own many shares - only 150m worth. Personally, I'd like to see some sort of buy back program - even if it isn't at full IPO price. I've had the money tied up in this venture for a couple months now, and at this point, even if the best business plan ever was presented, I'd rather put the money elsewhere. If for some reason a buy back isn't possible, I'd like at the very least to see PSI listed on RESX so I can make some sort of attempt at recouping my investment. I do seem to recall the IPO said a buyback would be instituted somewhere around the 60 day mark, which I believe we have passed, so that's what I'd really like to see. -- Richard Kitan Builder of Stuff
cosmoray	Posted - 2007.11.20 04:14:00 - [352] Might help if you gave more detail about assets. 1. Minerals - what and how much 2. What BPO's exactly 3. POS and fittings 4. Ships Will help shareholders decide if a partial liquidation may make sense, and a discussion can be made about the BPO/BPC's. p.s ALT post of a private investor
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.20 06:36:00 - [353] Originally by: Wylker I should probably clarify. I have specific plans for production, one would be for Rorquals, one is for Rorquals + T2 freighters, and one is for Rorquals + T2 freighters + new T2 cruisers and battleships. I didn't want to go overboard with details until people had a chance to discuss. Is rorquals profitable? From talking to quite alot who are stuck with Rorquals they sell(Including me), they are really not worth the minimal profit, for waiting weeks and weeks to sell one. Selling just Rorqual's wont cut it. T2 Freighter + Rorqual? Depends. I wouldnt count on a 15-17% ROI per month from that T2 Freighter + Rorqual + T2 cruisers? Might be better But what makes me wonder, is how you have 3 "plans", first being slightly stupid, next being very generic and solely based on speculation, and the third even more. Wylker, your plan said that after 60 days of full production, buy-back would be in place. What happend? Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Selene D'Celeste Caldari The D'Celeste Estate	Posted - 2007.11.20 07:56:00 - [354] I'm not involved but I want to say something for the record: 1) Thank you for posting Wylker, this is a good thing. 2) I see the posts since he posted are healthy, let's keep them that way. 3) I think that a more detailed explanation will be fully appreciated by those who actually care, and those who don't care can burn anyway. You can always go into dialogue with the advice that will surely ensue, or ignore it if you're not interested, but I think that such details would help to leave a more positive legacy.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.20 08:33:00 - [355] I dunno, if he goes into excuses for everything in the past people will counter them and the whole argument starts again (as happened when he advised on the forum ban). I say leave the past where it is, and either work your ass off to reshape the future, or pack up shop. Either way a buyback should be offered without question for people who want to get out. Just offering it will get a few notches back onto your reputation and will limit those people still calling it a scam. I really would like to talk to you in-game/msn/email whatever Wylker. I am available via MSN about 19 hours a day ([email protected]). Please give me a yell. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Letias Caldari Teikoku Trade Conglomerate Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2007.11.20 09:49:00 - [356] Buyback please.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.20 10:43:00 - [357] The returns on Rorquals alone are not so good just at the moment. From my own calculations, I estimate an ROI of about 8% from keeping 2 BPOs in constant production with 1 set of component BPOs (yes, this is possible). Demand may well pick up, though, once the carrier nerfs hit. Jump Freighters are a massive gamble, and producing them would involve purchasing lots of new BPOs; at the moment, it seems likely that a Rorqual might be the better option for a lot of people. T2 battleship production would be much easier to get started; I'd say go for it. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
SonOfAGhost Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.20 14:07:00 - [358] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro T2 battleship production would be much easier to get started; I'd say go for it. Easier to get started? Probably. The least bit profitable beyond the 1st week after patch? Not likely. Can't think of many builders/traders that AREN'T planning on jumping on that particular band wagon. Yes prices will remain high after the initial rush, but the only ones making a profit will be the ones selling T2 resources/components. From what I can see, many of the folks that are pulling out of carrier production are burning the same amount of minerals as before doing smaller ships already. Hurricanes for example I'm moving 20+/day just buying up below-cost sell orders and relisting. T2 BS production is going to be an irresistable draw for the bad-at-math crowd. Rorqual profits may or may not stink as bad as carriers, I haven't looked at it myself, but it can't be worse than the new T2 ships will be within a month. Who needs the Nikkei when there's EBay? Lag? GTFOOJ!
Strobe S	Posted - 2007.11.20 16:26:00 - [359] Glad to see we now have some communication. I can handle a business going wrong and never invest what I cannot afford to lose but the communication was just too poor (the mailing list was a complete joke) for me to have confidence in leaving my money in place if another option is possible. Buy back is therefore my preferred option.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.20 19:16:00 - [360] Well, the profit per unit or Rorquals is quite good (~400m or so) but it takes masses of capital to afford all the component BPOs, and you can only make 2 per month per Rorqual BPO. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Daeva Vios PhaseShifter Technologies	Posted - 2007.11.20 19:49:00 - [361] Salvage what is left of your reputation and the reputation of the friends who vouched for you, and do as Ricdic says. Offer a buyback. This has gone on long enough.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.20 19:56:00 - [362] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Well, the profit per unit or Rorquals is quite good (~400m or so) but it takes masses of capital to afford all the component BPOs, and you can only make 2 per month per Rorqual BPO. Keep in mind that he allready owns a few set's of component BPO's, it does seem more practical. Also if he is going to continue down the T2 freighter production path, there is a business model I did on the second page of the forums, if you do this I would be willing to look into supplying components for you. Not vouching for you but giving you an option as I can build the components independantly and sell them on to you if you can guarentee buying a steady supply of these thing's.
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.11.20 20:58:00 - [363] Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 20/11/2007 20:59:36 Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 20/11/2007 20:58:33 Originally by: Mining Bunnz If you are not acting directly on behalf of someone who holds, or used to hold, PSI shares, then you are not positively contributing to this thread anymore. Its that simple. Please stop. Yeh, Wylker already carries the burden of all the ISK, the burden of public criticism is just too much, the poor sensitive fellow will break under all this pressure. What is my legitimation to post "non-positive" comments in this thread? I am a judge in the court of public opinion, and my verdict is law... If this isnt a scam, but indeed a failed business venture, then its the market pvp equivalent of getting ganked in your officer-fitted mining Navy Megathron. With medium pulse II in the high slots.
Fitz VonHeise The New Order. United Connection's	Posted - 2007.11.20 22:30:00 - [364] I posted this originally in the irrational exuberance thread but thought it best to post it here too make sure Wylker sees it: Originally by: Benvie Investors have no reasonable expectation to receive any interest on their investment despite there being no returns for a few months. They do have a reasonable expectation that if the business is failing that all assets will be liquidated and all funds distributed to shareholders. So the current state of affairs for Wylker and his IPO is that he hasn't communicated with anyone for a long time. And for his name not to be put in my Thieves of Eve list is for him to come back and just liquidate all items purchased for the IPO and distribute them to all shareholders. (Even if this results in a net loss) In other words he would not have to attempt to make up the difference out of his own pocket. He would be a failed business man but would have his good name intact. (And Wylkerà. DonÆt let this failure bother you. There are many, many people who fail at a business and they come back and try again and many times succeed. Just set your goals a bit lower the next time) Services I Provide: Caldari Factional Standing Increase ò Alliance Creation ò The Thieves Of EvE ò My Links
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.20 23:36:00 - [365] Originally by: Fitz VonHeise I posted this originally in the irrational exuberance thread but thought it best to post it here too make sure Wylker sees it: Originally by: Benvie Investors have no reasonable expectation to receive any interest on their investment despite there being no returns for a few months. They do have a reasonable expectation that if the business is failing that all assets will be liquidated and all funds distributed to shareholders. So the current state of affairs for Wylker and his IPO is that he hasn't communicated with anyone for a long time. And for his name not to be put in my Thieves of Eve list is for him to come back and just liquidate all items purchased for the IPO and distribute them to all shareholders. (Even if this results in a net loss) In other words he would not have to attempt to make up the difference out of his own pocket. He would be a failed business man but would have his good name intact. (And Wylkerà. DonÆt let this failure bother you. There are many, many people who fail at a business and they come back and try again and many times succeed. Just set your goals a bit lower the next time) You should probably put me on your arbitrary list then. If you read this thread, what you are "demanding" (lol) is a possibility, but not at all a certainty. I'm not really sure what gives you the right to attach such a label, but more power to you sir. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Crovan Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.20 23:57:00 - [366] And here I thought people needed guns fitted to pvp... Alright, I've seen the subtle (and blatant) return of my name to the conversation. All I will say is that I honestly think that Wylker hasn't scammed you. He got really unlucky when it came to changes in the EVE economy. All capital builders are undergoing a major paradigm shift at the moment. As for buybacks and whatnot, I won't comment. That's between you guys. Just don't try to leverage Wylker's friends by saying he's tarnishing our good name. If you are really that upset, I'm authorized to discuss contracts on behalf of ETNY. If you think I won't shoot my friends for money, you're dead wrong. You could also contact Mynas Atoch, or our CEO, Exekias.
Meleil	Posted - 2007.11.21 00:25:00 - [367] Originally by: Crovan If you are really that upset, I'm authorized to discuss contracts on behalf of ETNY. If you think I won't shoot my friends for money, you're dead wrong. You could also contact Mynas Atoch, or our CEO, Exekias. strokes goatee I shall be in contact if things go farther downhill... ~Mel
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.21 00:27:00 - [368] Originally by: Crovan And here I thought people needed guns fitted to pvp... Alright, I've seen the subtle (and blatant) return of my name to the conversation. All I will say is that I honestly think that Wylker hasn't scammed you. He got really unlucky when it came to changes in the EVE economy. All capital builders are undergoing a major paradigm shift at the moment. As for buybacks and whatnot, I won't comment. That's between you guys. Just don't try to leverage Wylker's friends by saying he's tarnishing our good name. If you are really that upset, I'm authorized to discuss contracts on behalf of ETNY. If you think I won't shoot my friends for money, you're dead wrong. You could also contact Mynas Atoch, or our CEO, Exekias. You don't want ANY of this Crovan. CHAMONE! Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2007.11.21 01:25:00 - [369] Not sure why you got annoyed at Fitz up there Wylker. It seems you quoted the wrong post as he had nothing but nice things to say to you. Anyway, the buyback offer is the easiest of the lot if you need me to handle it. Pass all assets to me and walk away. It can be done and dusted within 5 minutes. Either way we need some action on this now in one form or another. Let's stop beating around the bush here. Really there is no argument. Capital ships are out so your original business plan has changed dramatically. The fact that it mostly hasn't been followed anyway means it's not worth a thing. Liquidate or have me do it for you, get people's cash back (as much as possible) and look for other ways to deal with public funds. Handing the money/assets over right now has a far higher benefit to your reputation than dragging this thing out for months more locking people into places they don't want to be. WWW.EVE-BANK.NET
Trading Bunnz ElArms International	Posted - 2007.11.21 02:47:00 - [370] I would be inclined to agree with other posters Wylker. Your business plan was an alternative approach to capship production. That business plan no longer holds so you need to give investors the option to walk away. Taking up Ric's offer, or liquidating stuff yourself, is probably the best step forward. If you do that, promptly and completely, all the bleating about scam and reputation and what have you goes away. You tried, you failed. No fault, no foul. As investors, WE take that risk. When you have another plan ready for action, you can come back to us to secure funding. Communication has sucked, there are obviously reasons for it but whatever they are dont matter to the outcome of this public company. You raised funds for production of carriers, it hasn't worked, the market has dived, call it quits and get out. If you do that promptly, then you will retain a degree of trust on the forums and can confidently come back to us in the future with new plans and I, personally, would read those plans with an open mind and more confidence than i approached this one with, simply because the "risk of scam" factor would be lower on a future plan. The "risk of failure" in this instance wasn't based on your abilities, but a nerf by ccp, thats always a risk we take. The "risk of scam" has loomed large lately with non-communication. Time to put it to bed.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.21 02:59:00 - [371] I'll definately abide by whatever the results of the vote are on Saturday. If they are to liquidate, then I will do so. Ricdic, I added you to MSN but you haven't added me back yet. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.21 03:31:00 - [372] Originally by: Wylker I'll definately abide by whatever the results of the vote are on Saturday. If they are to liquidate, then I will do so. Ricdic, I added you to MSN but you haven't added me back yet. Looking forward to resolving this during the weekend, you gave it a go and conditions became unfavorable. Sometimes you just get dealt a bad hand, but you did try, and for that I tip my hat. Hopefully, you can take your experiences from this and apply them to your future businesses. Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.21 04:44:00 - [373] Originally by: Wylker I'll definately abide by whatever the results of the vote are on Saturday. If they are to liquidate, then I will do so. Ricdic, I added you to MSN but you haven't added me back yet. Thanks Wylker I have accepted it and look forward to having a chat when we are both available (I am available for the next 6 hours on msn btw). Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.21 07:05:00 - [374] Wylker, will you be voting with your own shares? 1/3 of total shares is enough to pass the vote in any direction you please, considering the vast number of shares that inevitably won't be voting. I'm just curious whether the vote will be a legitimate polling of non-Wylker shareholders, or whether you'll end up doing what you want anyway by voting with your majority interest. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.21 09:05:00 - [375] Thats actually an excellent question. I forgot Wylker retains 51% of ownership Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Adam Weishaupt Minmatar Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.21 15:05:00 - [376] Originally by: Crovan And here I thought people needed guns fitted to pvp... Alright, I've seen the subtle (and blatant) return of my name to the conversation. All I will say is that I honestly think that Wylker hasn't scammed you. He got really unlucky when it came to changes in the EVE economy. All capital builders are undergoing a major paradigm shift at the moment. As for buybacks and whatnot, I won't comment. That's between you guys. Just don't try to leverage Wylker's friends by saying he's tarnishing our good name. If you are really that upset, I'm authorized to discuss contracts on behalf of ETNY. If you think I won't shoot my friends for money, you're dead wrong. You could also contact Mynas Atoch, or our CEO, Exekias. /signed Please hire MC against OHSHT anyway, though. Would be cool. Hi Crovan o/
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.21 15:21:00 - [377] Originally by: Kitex Wylker, will you be voting with your own shares? 1/3 of total shares is enough to pass the vote in any direction you please, considering the vast number of shares that inevitably won't be voting. I'm just curious whether the vote will be a legitimate polling of non-Wylker shareholders, or whether you'll end up doing what you want anyway by voting with your majority interest. Hehe I hadn't even considered this. No, I did not plan to vote :) Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2007.11.21 15:30:00 - [378] Wylker you can catch me any time on MSN. I am assuming you are waiting on our chat before starting the vote WWW.EVE-BANK.NET
Veronique deEstelle Gallente Advanced Technologies And Research Inc	Posted - 2007.11.21 16:40:00 - [379] Ah... at last some constructive discussion and Wylker back^^ A lot of efford was put in these IPO so far if I got it right. I think carriers and industrial caps/t2-freighters use some of the same BPOs/parts also. So why not just add them to the list? That is if Wylker feels himself capable of this... I don't see carriers out of vogue yet but the timing for a liquidation of carrier stuff right now seems pretty bad due to the uncertainly of carrier nerfs beside the hauling issue.
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.21 16:43:00 - [380] Originally by: Veronique deEstelle Ah... at last some constructive discussion and Wylker back^^ A lot of efford was put in these IPO so far if I got it right. I think carriers and industrial caps/t2-freighters use some of the same BPOs/parts also. So why not just add them to the list? That is if Wylker feels himself capable of this... I don't see carriers out of vogue yet but the timing for a liquidation of carrier stuff right now seems pretty bad due to the uncertainly of carrier nerfs beside the hauling issue. T2 Freighters uses T2 capital components. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.21 16:46:00 - [381] Originally by: Veronique deEstelle Ah... at last some constructive discussion and Wylker back^^ A lot of efford was put in these IPO so far if I got it right. I think carriers and industrial caps/t2-freighters use some of the same BPOs/parts also. So why not just add them to the list? That is if Wylker feels himself capable of this... I don't see carriers out of vogue yet but the timing for a liquidation of carrier stuff right now seems pretty bad due to the uncertainly of carrier nerfs beside the hauling issue. I wish I had your optimism. I would think that the majority of Carrier's are used for transportation and for fueling POS. Now carrier's don't die every day so it is probable that although the market has slowed down, the market will be saturated by people getting rid of carrier's and cashing in on Rorqual's or jump freighter's. Jumo Freighters themselves are primarily made of T2 capital component's, it would be simpler for Wylker to source himself a freighter builder and request the additional components for them (a small quantity) from the same supplier.
Fitz VonHeise The New Order. United Connection's	Posted - 2007.11.21 17:20:00 - [382] Originally by: Wylker You should probably put me on your arbitrary list then. If you read this thread, what you are "demanding" (lol) is a possibility, but not at all a certainty. Not at all. The point of my post was that you had not posted anything and people were suspecting your IPO to become a scam after the fact. If the vote is to liquidate assets and you return all money's raised from the sale then there will be no scam committed.
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2007.11.21 19:18:00 - [383] The vote is up guys. Think long and hard about where you want this to go and then vote. I still have no involvement in this at this point, just want to make sure everyone gets their votes in. WWW.EVE-BANK.NET
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.22 05:22:00 - [384] Hopefully it's not too tacky to do a little last minute campaigning, because I'm going to do it anyway. These are the options of the vote thats up now (right click the listing for PSI on your shares tab - select "Votes"): Option 1. Continue trying to make Carrier/MS production work. Option 2. Switch to T2 Freighters, Rorquals, and new T2 ship production. Option 3. Liquidate and return as much isk as possible. After pondering the above choices, I came up with a couple of campaign slogans: 1. Stop the hate - liquidate! 2. Vote like me, Option 3! 3. ~~If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!~~ I suppose this one doesn't really apply here. My thoughts on each option: Option 1 is clearly the fool's choice. Please don't pick it. The basic concept of option 2 has been debated considerably in this forum and others, mostly with no connection to the PSI thread. General consensus (largely speculative, admittedly) is that the market for T2 freighters and new T2 ships is going to burn hot for a period of a few weeks or a month, then peter out as surely as the current cap ship market has. Sustainable 15% profits in this arena are a pipe dream even under expert management. A vote for option 2 amounts to acceptance of a consistently (and perhaps substantially) lower rate of return than the plan you originally bought into, as unrealistic as that original ROI may have been. Option 3. Cue butterflies and soothing music. This is likely our only near-term opportunity for recovery of this investment, folks. Please do not forget that prior to Wylker's reemergence with his post of two days ago, popular opinion was that we'd been scammed out of 40b isk. Please do not forget that in the 2+ months since PSI sold it's final shares, and the 5 months since it was originally opened to investment, PSI has paid nothing, and lost value. Some of that is certainly due to the dog that the capship market has become. I won't debate that. But I do absolutely contend that a more attentive, interested IPO manager would have found other methods of capitalization for funds that were doing nothing but sitting stagnant. My advice to investors is to vote for liquidation, so we can move on. With apologies for being blunt, Wylker's performance and communication have been extremely poor, and we just don't know when he's going to lose interest again. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Calgorac The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.24 03:34:00 - [385] ttt Latest News
Erisia Hegemon Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.24 08:48:00 - [386] Originally by: Calgorac ttt Jesus, you're the biggest spammer I've ever seen on these boards. I hope the mods ban you.
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.24 08:52:00 - [387] Originally by: Erisia Hegemon Originally by: Calgorac ttt Jesus, you're the biggest spammer I've ever seen on these boards. I hope the mods ban you. me2. And i hope the door will hit him on the way out. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.11.24 13:58:00 - [388] Originally by: Kitex My advice to investors is to vote for liquidation, so we can move on. With apologies for being blunt, Wylker's performance and communication have been extremely poor, and we just don't know when he's going to lose interest again. devil's advocate here; but, he might eve might keep his interest for the next year +, and he go on to start several more ventures (perhaps all at once) and become a big time poster on eve-o. you never know what the future holds. solid liquid
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.24 14:28:00 - [389] I've voted for #2 with 155 shares. I prefer to roll the dice and see where they end up... My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.24 20:47:00 - [390] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd devil's advocate here; but, he might eve might keep his interest for the next year +, and he go on to start several more ventures (perhaps all at once) and become a big time poster on eve-o. you never know what the future holds. He also might develop a passion for intricate calligraphy and hand-sewing hot air balloons, but I'm guessing probably not. Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I've voted for #2 with 155 shares. I prefer to roll the dice and see where they end up... I find myself both disappointed and relieved that you hold more shares than I do. Disappointed in that your vote cancels mine 3 times, and encouraged that I don't have as much to lose in this as some do. Personally, I'm not much of a gambler. When I do gamble, I like to get up and leave the table when I'm getting a bad vibe from the dealer. Wylker's been dealing a lot of 16's thus far. Essentially, if Wylker had honored his buyback promise this would all be a moot point, as anyone who is voting to liquidate would already have sold off their voting shares. I'm in this position, and voting the way I am, because that promise wasn't honored, and shows no signs of being honored anytime soon. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:22:00 - [391] The results are in! Continue trying to make Carrier/MS production work. 83.0097491876 % (83.0097491876/100.0) Switch to T2 Freighters, Rorquals, and new T2 ship production. 5.84117990167 % (5.84117990167/100.0) Liquidate and return as much isk as possible. 11.1490709108 % (11.1490709108/100.0) My reaction was disbelief. No escape. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:26:00 - [392] That seems unreal. Did you vote, Wylker? Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
May Shiko	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:47:00 - [393] Well if these results are genuine and accurate, it's a factual representation that at this point in time, less than 20% of share holders would immediately effect a buyback even at a loss. So I say, with this information in hand, either redo the vote and hand Wylker's shares over to a 3rd party like Chribba (so that there are no questsions asked about the authenticity of Wylker allowing shareholders to decide what to do with their money) or effect the originally planned buyback immediately. For clarification, I represent the ownership of at least one share in this IPO (it's actually several hundred) and I will not disclose my share brokerage alt for privacy concerns as it holds and acts as a broker for friends who want to remain private.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:50:00 - [394] Even subtracting the 51% Wylker owns, it is evident that liquidation lost Originally by: N1fty So what your really trying to get at is that the universe is in fact Emo?
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.25 19:02:00 - [395] In actuality, he controls and has the ability to vote with 66% of total shares. 2000 legitimate shares probably held by Wylker, and 6001 unpurchased shares probably held by his alt, Researchi. Considering the number of actual shareholders who wouldn't have bothered to vote, the loss of the liquidation option isn't so clear as you would think. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.25 19:03:00 - [396] Also, if im not mistaken, a good percentage would be in the hands of his corp mates, who also bought into this. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.25 19:11:00 - [397] Just when I thought the fireworks were over. The vote just makes it clear that a buyback should be offered... as very few people would take it up apparently. Right Wylker? Unless you fixed that vote somehow, you would have very little to lose in offering a buyback... but you would build up a LOT more trust in doing so. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.25 19:20:00 - [398] Yeh I don't think a screenshot is too much to ask for at this point. Or a revote as suggested above with a trusted party holding those shares. I want to see how many shares were voted with as that should give a good indication if you voted or not Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.25 19:28:00 - [399] Originally by: Ricdic I want to see how many shares were voted with as that should give a good indication if you voted or not I did note that this information was not provided... found that the most telling part. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Phoenix492 Ravenous Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.25 20:00:00 - [400] Originally by: Ricdic Yeh I don't think a screenshot is too much to ask for at this point. /Signed. Just for peace of mind really. Although i didn't vote (didn't know where to), i think we are owed at least a Screenie of whats going on atm :)
cosmoray	Posted - 2007.11.25 22:10:00 - [401] Some interesting maths: Assuming that Wylker voted his share blocks (either 51 or 66%), and that no one else voted for continued prodcution, it would mean: 1. (51% Wylker share vote). That only 61% of all shares were voted 2. (66% Wylker share vote). That 79.5% of the total share holding was voted. Of the shares that Wylker DOES NOT having voting power with it means (assuming above): 35% of people voted for other T2 production, and 65% of people voted for Liquidation. I think option 2 looks very plausable. Wylker needs to provide screenshots or it is likely he voted with his shares.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.11.25 22:45:00 - [402] This thread is getting saucy for sure. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Lab Two Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.26 03:20:00 - [403] Edited by: Lab Two on 26/11/2007 03:22:42 This is quite simple, the plan for the IPO failed, and there for there should be a buyback of the shares. If Wylker wants to do something else, then fine, make a new IPO, because people didn't sign up with their isk for something else, they signed up for the plan you presented in the start, which has clearly failed. So lets stop beating a dead horse and close this stuff already. Or let's start calling you a scammer, because seriously, you havn't even bothered giving a single piece of evidence that this isn't a scam, taking a screenshot too hard for ya?
Shae Laurel	Posted - 2007.11.26 08:02:00 - [404] Originally by: Kitex The results are in! Continue trying to make Carrier/MS production work. 83.0097491876 % (83.0097491876/100.0) Switch to T2 Freighters, Rorquals, and new T2 ship production. 5.84117990167 % (5.84117990167/100.0) Liquidate and return as much isk as possible. 11.1490709108 % (11.1490709108/100.0) My reaction was disbelief. No escape. To my knowledge there are 4000 public shares, making the voting shares ratio, IF everyone voted, like this: A: 3320 shares (83%) B: 234 shares (5.84%) C: 446 shares (11.15%) I know I voted with 100 shares on option C... what did you guys vote? Of course a scrrendump would prove better than my math here. /Shae
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.26 08:10:00 - [405] Originally by: Shae Laurel Originally by: Kitex The results are in! Continue trying to make Carrier/MS production work. 83.0097491876 % (83.0097491876/100.0) Switch to T2 Freighters, Rorquals, and new T2 ship production. 5.84117990167 % (5.84117990167/100.0) Liquidate and return as much isk as possible. 11.1490709108 % (11.1490709108/100.0) My reaction was disbelief. No escape. To my knowledge there are 4000 public shares, making the voting shares ratio, IF everyone voted, like this: A: 3320 shares (83%) B: 234 shares (5.84%) C: 446 shares (11.15%) I know I voted with 100 shares on option C... what did you guys vote? Of course a scrrendump would prove better than my math here. /Shae This is actually a very good idea, if people list their # of shares and how they voted you can easily determine if Wylker voted or not. If you come close to that 446 number for C (assuming the math was right), then you know he did. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.26 08:12:00 - [406] Originally by: Shae Laurel To my knowledge there are 4000 public shares, making the voting shares ratio, IF everyone voted, like this: A: 3320 shares (83%) B: 234 shares (5.84%) C: 446 shares (11.15%) I know I voted with 100 shares on option C... what did you guys vote? Of course a scrrendump would prove better than my math here. /Shae Thanks for extrapolating that. I'd arrived at the same conclusion I think you're getting at, but hadn't bothered to do the math. I voted C with 50 shares, and I know for certain of votes for C with 300 other shares. That puts us at 450 votes already, which would seem to establish that Wylker or someone with access to his shares did indeed vote with some or all of them. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.26 08:20:00 - [407] Originally by: Kitex which would seem to establish that Wylker or someone with access to his shares did indeed vote with some or all of them. But honestly, we already knew this... it's just the formality of trying to prove it at this stage. I sure hope we don't get another disappearing act now... Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.26 08:34:00 - [408] For the sake of avoiding any impression of fuzzy math, I'll just stick with my own personal 50 votes, bringing the running total to 150 thus far. I'll leave the other 300 that I know of for the actual owner to post about when they read the thread. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Daeva Vios PhaseShifter Technologies	Posted - 2007.11.26 08:56:00 - [409] Add my 65 to that, bringing the total to 315.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.26 10:39:00 - [410] 48 here. Voted C > Liquidation Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Dagam GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.26 10:49:00 - [411] Hahaha you guys trusted Wylker.
ProudGallenteCitizen	Posted - 2007.11.26 12:45:00 - [412] Originally by: Dagam Hahaha you guys trusted Wylker. You aren't doing a very good job of being a goon.
Shinhan Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.11.26 13:33:00 - [413] Originally by: Kitex The results are in! Continue trying to make Carrier/MS production work. 83.0097491876 % (83.0097491876/100.0) Switch to T2 Freighters, Rorquals, and new T2 ship production. 5.84117990167 % (5.84117990167/100.0) Liquidate and return as much isk as possible. 11.1490709108 % (11.1490709108/100.0) My reaction was disbelief. No escape. Are we sure there are only 4000 stocks? After playing with these exact percentages, I can conclude that number of votes is divisible with 12001. So, there was 12001 votes, or 24002 or 36003... Because, if there was 12001 votes: 83.0097491876% of that is 9962.000000003876 5.84117990167% of that is 700.9999999994167 11.1490709108% of that is 1338.000000005108 (For a comparison, for 4000 votes this is the distribution) a) 3320.389967504 b) 233.6471960668 c) 445.962836432 Most likely there is 12001 shares (with the 12001. vote being some kind of control vote) in which case 1338 shares voted for liquidation. -- Selling apples, 1 signature each. ѼѼѼѼѼѼѼ
Richard Kitan United Space Republic Research	Posted - 2007.11.26 13:49:00 - [414] Voted C, only 15 shares -- Richard Kitan Builder of Stuff
May Shiko	Posted - 2007.11.26 14:20:00 - [415] Again, I would like to state my interest in either a screenshot confirming the authenticity of this vote or the implementation of an immediate buyback. I will vouch for 300 shares having voted for option C, however as I will not divulge the names with which those shares are held on, take this with a grain of salt. We've either got a doctored vote, or factual representation that a buyback can be implemented without causing serious/undue harm to the failed IPO's operational wallet.
ProudGallenteCitizen	Posted - 2007.11.26 15:17:00 - [416] Even if just 5% of shares voted for an immediate liquidation you should implement a buyback policy.
Shuan Jedai Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.26 15:46:00 - [417] Funny though how no-one who voted for A has come forward.
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.26 17:02:00 - [418] Looks to me like two things are rather obvious: 1. Wylker voted with his own shares, 2. Even discounting his own shares, option A. won the vote. I'd guess the votes (other than his own) for option A came from his friends/corp/alliance mates who don't read this forum - and hence won't be replying. IF #1 above is the case then it clearly makes hm unfit to run a company - as it would mean he lied in this thread. However, proving that #1 is the case could be pretty tricky - especially when it's also the case that he demonstrably didn't NEED to vote with his own shares to win the vote. This would make him not only dishonest but also stupid. Precedent has already been set by LaVista that not sticking to your plans to your promised dividends is not, of itself, sufficient reason for liquidation to be compulsory: very few people here seemed to believe he should liquidate (or at least were willing to go on the record as saying so). That leaves a voluntary buy-back. But the problem with that is that IF the shareholders have voted to continue then IF offering a buyback would cause Wylker to be unable to continue with his plan then offering such a buyback would be expressly against what the shareholders voted for. And that's the risk when people don't insist on strictly professional behaviour from their friends: they lose the moral right to insist on it from others. I half-expect another unfortunate precedent to be set by EBank this month, but I'll hold fire on that until/unless it happens.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.26 17:56:00 - [419] If you feel jealous that EBANK's success far exceed's yours over a quarter of the lifespan I suggest you look into a stress ball. But of course if you believe that random unfounded attacks are actually having a negative affect on EBANK, by all means keep it up. Obviously our statistics wouldn't show that even with interest free accounts we are growing on a daily basis. Obviously many people lack trust in my dealings, as can be seen by the 220 customers amassed over the past 60 days. I don't epeen much but sometimes I like to put the little boys back in their place. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.26 18:06:00 - [420] I am sure some people may find my above post unprofessional in some way to which they are most welcome to request a withdrawal from their EBANK account. Of course, EBANK have or had no ownership with PSI at any stage ever in it's lifespan, so it's mention in relation to this corporation is questionable at best. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Auctor	Posted - 2007.11.26 18:13:00 - [421] I voted C with 50 shares.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.26 18:16:00 - [422] Originally by: Kitex Continue trying to make Carrier/MS production work. 83.0097491876 % (83.0097491876/100.0) Switch to T2 Freighters, Rorquals, and new T2 ship production. 5.84117990167 % (5.84117990167/100.0) Liquidate and return as much isk as possible. 11.1490709108 % (11.1490709108/100.0) Originally by: FastLearner Looks to me like two things are rather obvious: 1. Wylker voted with his own shares, 2. Even discounting his own shares, option A. won the vote. If those are the actual results (screenshot please) then everyone voted, including Wylker and any shares held by the corp. As for an obvious victory for continued persuit of capital ship production, I am not so sure on that one. In my opinion, as an disinterested third party, this vote should have been a two not three option vote. By providing three options Wylker effectively split the opposition to coninuing cap production. If those who voted to Switch to T2 Freighters, Rorquals, and new T2 ship production would have voted to liquidate in a two option vote and Wylker kept to his original position of nuetrality, then the vote would have been close, but would have been in favor of liquidation. While I don't care one way or the other what happens here, I do feel strongly about Wylker's change of position regarding voting with the corp held controling stake. That is wrong. The corp has no voice on its future. The future of the corp should be detirmined by those who paid for its existance. I see no problem with Wylker voting with the shares he had purchased. However, to publicly state that he did not intend to vote, then change to voting without a public statement is dishonest. I think that Wylker has enough problems with running a business in a competitive market, he doesn't need to make things worse by calling into question his honesty. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Zeromancer Corp Zero	Posted - 2007.11.26 18:27:00 - [423] I voted C with 40 shares.
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.26 18:28:00 - [424] Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Kitex Continue trying to make Carrier/MS production work. 83.0097491876 % (83.0097491876/100.0) Switch to T2 Freighters, Rorquals, and new T2 ship production. 5.84117990167 % (5.84117990167/100.0) Liquidate and return as much isk as possible. 11.1490709108 % (11.1490709108/100.0) Originally by: FastLearner Looks to me like two things are rather obvious: 1. Wylker voted with his own shares, 2. Even discounting his own shares, option A. won the vote. If those are the actual results (screenshot please) then everyone voted, including Wylker and any shares held by the corp. As for an obvious victory for continued persuit of capital ship production, I am not so sure on that one. In my opinion, as an disinterested third party, this vote should have been a two not three option vote. By providing three options Wylker effectively split the opposition to coninuing cap production. If those who voted to Switch to T2 Freighters, Rorquals, and new T2 ship production would have voted to liquidate in a two option vote and Wylker kept to his original position of nuetrality, then the vote would have been close, but would have been in favor of liquidation. While I don't care one way or the other what happens here, I do feel strongly about Wylker's change of position regarding voting with the corp held controling stake. That is wrong. The corp has no voice on its future. The future of the corp should be detirmined by those who paid for its existance. I see no problem with Wylker voting with the shares he had purchased. However, to publicly state that he did not intend to vote, then change to voting without a public statement is dishonest. I think that Wylker has enough problems with running a business in a competitive market, he doesn't need to make things worse by calling into question his honesty. Actually, you COULD look at the 3 options as splitting the vote for him to continue running ANYTHING. Whilst he was perfectly entitled to vote with his own shares, there's two areas in which he's very badly at fault: 1. Voting after he said he wouldn't. 2. Voting with unallocated shares - which should never be voted with.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.26 18:28:00 - [425] Originally by: FastLearner And that's the risk when people don't insist on strictly professional behaviour from their friends: they lose the moral right to insist on it from others. I half-expect another unfortunate precedent to be set by EBank this month, but I'll hold fire on that until/unless it happens. I'd like to know what Ebank precedent you think has been set? If you are talking about some affair involving Ricdic and LaVista... that was their own business prior to Ebank opening at all. So, um, I'm unclear as to what you are talking about? BTW if this is going to have you and Ric start up that old (sh/p)outing match between the two of you, please consider my question withdrawn. Taikun's Lost Bet
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.26 18:34:00 - [426] Originally by: Ricdic If you feel jealous that EBANK's success far exceed's yours over a quarter of the lifespan I suggest you look into a stress ball. But of course if you believe that random unfounded attacks are actually having a negative affect on EBANK, by all means keep it up. Obviously our statistics wouldn't show that even with interest free accounts we are growing on a daily basis. Obviously many people lack trust in my dealings, as can be seen by the 220 customers amassed over the past 60 days. I don't epeen much but sometimes I like to put the little boys back in their place. How is this success being measured? Number of customers? I'd prefer to use amount of ISK invested. No doubt if I allowed people to deposit 1 ISK and called them "customers" I'd have a ton of customers too. In fact I have way more than 220 customers - but I somehow doubt customers is even the correct term for what you were describing. I haven't MADE an unfounded attack - I've just indicated that I think it likely I'll make a founded one later.
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.26 18:39:00 - [427] Originally by: Ricdic I am sure some people may find my above post unprofessional in some way to which they are most welcome to request a withdrawal from their EBANK account. Of course, EBANK have or had no ownership with PSI at any stage ever in it's lifespan, so it's mention in relation to this corporation is questionable at best. I've never seen you shirk from mentioning EBank in threads relating to corporations it has no relevance to. Heck, you've even mentioned it in one of my threads if my memory serves me correctly. My point was a perfectly valid one - that the current situation is not unique (in some respects) and that we should be wary of setting unprofessional precedents just because of who's involved.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.26 18:40:00 - [428] I think there should be a dedicated FL v Ricdic thread on the forum, so we can always look in the same place for the latest back and forth. Is it time to take bets on if we'll see a return of Wylker to the thread or not? I'm thinking he will return... only because he's close to pulling off this little shindig of his. No reason for him to run away now when he almost has succeeded. But betting against his return may not be such a high-risk position... Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.26 18:41:00 - [429] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: FastLearner And that's the risk when people don't insist on strictly professional behaviour from their friends: they lose the moral right to insist on it from others. I half-expect another unfortunate precedent to be set by EBank this month, but I'll hold fire on that until/unless it happens. I'd like to know what Ebank precedent you think has been set? If you are talking about some affair involving Ricdic and LaVista... that was their own business prior to Ebank opening at all. So, um, I'm unclear as to what you are talking about? BTW if this is going to have you and Ric start up that old (sh/p)outing match between the two of you, please consider my question withdrawn. Absolutely nothing to do with LaVista. And no precedent HAS been set.
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.26 22:04:00 - [430] Its fun. Anyone noticed how Vulture Virtue and Trixie Baggz always log in at the same time, and sometimes along with Wylker? Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.26 22:34:00 - [431] So I learned the result of this vote by proxying on to eve-o just now from work. I haven't even been online beyond delegating fighters for 20 minutes the other day. I have no idea who voted with what, but I'll be happy to take a screenie of the vote results. I can also tell you that besides my holding of 2000 voting shares, the next largest shareholder has around 300 iirc. Anyway. Off to home to produce screenies (which I'm sure will get accused of being shopped but ) We'll have some more information in a few hours. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Shiva Shakti Gallente Hi-Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.26 23:42:00 - [432] I voted C with 100 shares although I would consider investing again if another plan comes up and funds are returned this time around..GL whatever the plan Visit EvE Galactic Stock Exchange and Real-time Eve Stock Exchange (in game or out, but trades in game)
Ghost Emperor Amarr EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.26 23:56:00 - [433] Hi Wylker, I think I have a duty to be clear how I vote with other people shares, the shareholders in EMFI should know that we voted for liquidation with our 300 shares, option C I seem to remember (If I had more time I would have polled them on vote options as well). We will be happy to follow the voter power, although I have my doubts that CCP have a functioning voting system (apart from the fact that unlock votes don't seem to work too often and there is a bit of an major counting glitch as well). It is a bit like their total share count which doesn't show total shares, but just the last number released...not a lot of use if you want to work out the value of investment clearly. Anyways...I had/have high hopes that Researchii/Wylker can run a good business from this investment, or after a wee break, and I hope they don't add to the investment scam sadness which has gripped the markets after a good run. I voted C as I though it was the best way of recouping investors isk for other higher yield operations. Either way GL and we hope to see some success in your projects. Visit EvE Galactic Stock Exchange and Real-time Eve Stock Exchange (in game or out, but trades in game). For E
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.27 00:21:00 - [434] Welp, I went to see how the vote went, and I just have the same information as everyone else, anyone know a top secret way to get the # of votes instead of the percentage? Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.27 01:10:00 - [435] Edited by: Matalino on 27/11/2007 01:11:05 Originally by: Wylker Welp, I went to see how the vote went, and I just have the same information as everyone else, anyone know a top secret way to get the # of votes instead of the percentage? The results are displayed as dual percentages, both percentage that voted and percentage of votes cast for that options. So if you see 83.0097491876 % (83.0097491876/100.0) that means that 100% of shareholders voted, 83% of shares voted for that option. Had there been share holders that did not vote, you would have seen a result such as 87.2027180068 % (8.02083333333/9.19791666667), thus indicating that 8% of shareholders voted for that option, but only 9.2% of shareholders voted at all, meaning that 87% of voters voted for that option. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.27 02:26:00 - [436] Originally by: Matalino Edited by: Matalino on 27/11/2007 01:11:05 Originally by: Wylker Welp, I went to see how the vote went, and I just have the same information as everyone else, anyone know a top secret way to get the # of votes instead of the percentage? The results are displayed as dual percentages, both percentage that voted and percentage of votes cast for that options. So if you see 83.0097491876 % (83.0097491876/100.0) that means that 100% of shareholders voted, 83% of shares voted for that option. Had there been share holders that did not vote, you would have seen a result such as 87.2027180068 % (8.02083333333/9.19791666667), thus indicating that 8% of shareholders voted for that option, but only 9.2% of shareholders voted at all, meaning that 87% of voters voted for that option. I'd like to believe this was true, except that I hold 2000 shares on Wylker and the corp holds 6001 shares, none of which were used to vote. Any other explanations? Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Ryveth	Posted - 2007.11.27 02:28:00 - [437] I voted for liquidation with my 5 shares.
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.27 03:00:00 - [438] Originally by: Wylker I'd like to believe this was true, except that I hold 2000 shares on Wylker and the corp holds 6001 shares, none of which were used to vote. Any other explanations? Folks claim to have voted for option C with 573 shares (just the ones that have posted here thus far). 573 is 11% of 5209 shares. That means one of the following is true: 1. A minimum of 5209 shares were used to vote. You could safely assume the actual number of shares were a much larger number, as not everyone who voted would be posting in this thread. 2. Those who claim to have voted for option C are lying. I can't help but wonder what reason they'd have to do that. Either way, the vote is quite suspect. As for if there is a way to verify it precisely in game, I don't know the answer to that. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.11.27 03:18:00 - [439] Quote: I'd like to believe this was true, except that I hold 2000 shares on Wylker and the corp holds 6001 shares, none of which were used to vote. Any other explanations? Were you not the CEO of the corp? If memory serves, the vote of the CEO represents the vote of the corp. Therefore if you voted you would've voted with both your shares AND the corp shares. I only remember because when holding the vote to create shares for Dusk Blade, no shares were actually distributed, and Taila's "yes" vote represented 100% contribution of the vote. Improve Market Competition!
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.27 03:19:00 - [440] Originally by: Shadarle I think there should be a dedicated FL v Ricdic thread on the forum, so we can always look in the same place for the latest back and forth I actually personally like Fury Bank for the record. I also steer clear of the whole FL vs. Ricdic thing. Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
Kesslan Osefice Lyrix Industries	Posted - 2007.11.27 03:33:00 - [441] Hmm well I voted B with a total of 6 shares. Mostly because I was hoping this would turn out better but to be honest I've been glad for a long time now that I did not purchase more than 6 shares.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.27 03:47:00 - [442] Edited by: Shadarle on 27/11/2007 03:48:50 Why not just offer a buyback to anyone who wants it right now. Have people send you eve-mails with their # of shares and then once you've added up all the shares that are to be bought back you can liquidate enough to cover it and leave yourself with the rest of your BPO's to continue on. This way all people who want out can get out. You can then put the shares up for sale for anyone who wishes to jump in now. I don't see any reason this shouldn't be possible. Plus your IPO specifically said you would offer a buyback now. It seems you should be offering it and if you refuse to offer the buyback you're only going to have even more disgruntled investors. For your own sake it is easier to get rid of the disgruntled investors, gets them out of your hair, lets you continue on with the others. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Meleil	Posted - 2007.11.27 03:56:00 - [443] If wylker doesn't see the voice of reason after reading Shadarles post he'll fry himself. Nuff said. ~Mel
cosmoray	Posted - 2007.11.27 04:26:00 - [444] Edited by: cosmoray on 27/11/2007 04:28:02 Edited by: cosmoray on 27/11/2007 04:27:14 Edited by: cosmoray on 27/11/2007 04:26:11 Some more AMAZING maths, to counter Wylker's statement that he didn't vote. Scenario 1. If Wylker didn't vote his 8001 shares, so 4000 shares voted: 1. 83.0097491876% means that 3320.39 shares voted for option A 2. 5.84117990167% means that 233.6472 shares voted for option B 3. 11.1490709108% means that 445.9628 shares voted for option C OK who has been voting with SHARE FRACTIONS. Scenario 2. If Wylker did vote his 8001 shares. 1. 83.0097491876% means that 9962 shares voted for option A 2. 5.84117990167% means that 701 shares voted for option B 3. 11.1490709108% means that 1338 shares voted for option C Now seeing as you can't vote with share fractions, and scenario 2 has nice round share votes, me thinks Wylker is telling a slight mis-truth on his non voting. The vote fractions show pretty clearly he must have voted. The problem is if the 8001 votes are removed it looks like Option A still wins. Seeing as Wylker said he wouldn't vote, and it clearly looks like he did, isn't it time he starts talking the truth and either re-vote or buyback.
Karella Morana	Posted - 2007.11.27 06:24:00 - [445] o/ This is the thread that keeps on giving. I've just read all 15 pages, and it's fantastic. I have not invested in this, and I have no connections with anyone involved - (or their alts. ) cosmoray's post ftw, except this.... Originally by: cosmoray The problem is if the 8001 votes are removed it looks like Option A still wins. Would the remaining votes include any Wylker 'alts' that may hold shares?
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.11.27 06:28:00 - [446] Originally by: cosmoray Scenario 1. If Wylker didn't vote his 8001 shares, so 4000 shares voted: 1. 83.0097491876% means that 3320.39 shares voted for option A 2. 5.84117990167% means that 233.6472 shares voted for option B 3. 11.1490709108% means that 445.9628 shares voted for option C OK who has been voting with SHARE FRACTIONS. Scenario 2. If Wylker did vote his 8001 shares. 1. 83.0097491876% means that 9962 shares voted for option A 2. 5.84117990167% means that 701 shares voted for option B 3. 11.1490709108% means that 1338 shares voted for option C This actually seems like a very good method of detecting how many shares voted... 23 Member EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated)
Riethe	Posted - 2007.11.27 06:55:00 - [447] Seems like Wylker is dragging you folks through the dirt here. Playing with your emotions and what not, creating false hope. But for what reason, I wonder? What part of dragging this on any longer is going to provide him more profit? Unless it's just personal kicks, which I can see. There shouldn't have even been a vote, it's clear no one wants to participate in this bullstuff anymore. How's it feel to be mistreated twice in one month? So how about them market regulations? Securities? Commissions? Committees? Sounding real good right now. This is epic.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.27 07:29:00 - [448] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: cosmoray Scenario 1. If Wylker didn't vote his 8001 shares, so 4000 shares voted: 1. 83.0097491876% means that 3320.39 shares voted for option A 2. 5.84117990167% means that 233.6472 shares voted for option B 3. 11.1490709108% means that 445.9628 shares voted for option C OK who has been voting with SHARE FRACTIONS. Scenario 2. If Wylker did vote his 8001 shares. 1. 83.0097491876% means that 9962 shares voted for option A 2. 5.84117990167% means that 701 shares voted for option B 3. 11.1490709108% means that 1338 shares voted for option C This actually seems like a very good method of detecting how many shares voted... It is actually quite interesting that no one else thought this up previously. It's quite obvious and seems to make mathematical sense. Time to go back through some old threads to check some votes I think. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Riethe	Posted - 2007.11.27 07:35:00 - [449] I haven't really been paying attention, but doesn't that assume every single share was voted with? (minus Wylker's?) If a single individual did not vote, would that not offset the method use to determine this?
Trading Bunnz ElArms International	Posted - 2007.11.27 07:56:00 - [450] The math looks funny, but frankly, I cannot remember a single corporate vote ever that had 100% voter turnout. That looks just as funny as your math. Test your numbers, there are bound to be points between the extreme's that lead to whole numbers. I'm too tired and brain dead and can't immediately work out how to make excel dance to seek those numbers, but I'm fairly confident they exist. As for the results of the vote, i'm very surprised. Wylker, did you vote your personal shares? That is, the 2000 odd shares you own personally, invested on the same terms as the rest of us? That could account for some of the issues, particularly with that corp voting bug, that votes master wallet shares sometimes too. I believe your ALT is the CEO, she should have proper access to the full voting record, which "should" clearly indicate the number of shares that voted. Silence your critics, post those screenshots. Any kind of evasion or suspicion of doubt at this stage is going to be used as further ammunition from parties to attempt to damage your reputation. I'll just reiterate a point made by FL above. Even if, intentionally or accidentally, the 8001 shares owned by corp and Wylker were voted in favour of the option to continue, removing those votes leaves us with the following: 1861 (9962-8001) 701 1338 : which is clear direction to the manager, from his investors, that he is to continue. Wylker did what any competent manager should do. Eventually. Sure, it took him too long, and that fact is clouding many judgements, but he has sought, and obtained, investor direction to continue. As an investor, you are ALL only 1 of many. Am I unhappy about the lack of communication? Yes. Am I prepared to accept the decision of the other investors in how to move forward? Yes. Do I think this vote is legit? Possibly not. I think Wylker you should consider ways that you can conduct a vote that everyone will accept the outcome of, in advance. Maybe drop your shares in escrow somewhere (Chribba would hold em, he hasn't been bad mouthing you in here and he has heaps of trust), and conduct another vote and post a screenshot of the results as soon as they happen. For those screaming for a buyback, yes it was part of his plan. As he explains upchannel however, limited buybacks are not available from CORP FUNDS. Maybe Wylker you can raise some additional money from corpmates or alliance friends or people who still have explicit faith in hisability to deliver results and offer a limited buyback. I would suggest Wylker, you tap your friends and find out how much you could raise, offer that as the "buyback pool", divide it by the number of shares that you get offered for buyback and then distribute those shares to the people who fund the buyback. If lots bail, they get not much per share and those funding it get a big increase in their stake. Its not "ideal", but it allows you to part company with your unhappy investors without having to do the "all or nothing" liquidation scenario you raised. It allows investors that have "written off" their investment and no longer care to see you succeed to get lost with some money back and it allows those friends/colleagues who do still trust you to potentially snap up bargain shares. It allows those investors who do want to see you succeed the options to do the same. A pool of 2b would be a target I suspect, which if everyone who voted for liquidation took, would return nearly 1.5m per share. Far less than list price, horrible return, but an immediate out for those who no longer care. The less than cashed out, the higher the per share return. Wylker, you are getting a very hostile reaction on the boards. A large part of that is you simply do not post enough. You need to be vocal. Respond to posts here. Don't get into shouting matches, but address questions when they are raised. Cheers
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.27 08:07:00 - [451] Yes, it would. I've had Excel calculate the percentages given by the UI (up to the given 10 decimal places) for every possible vote total from 1 to 12001. Sadly, there is not a single whole number out of those 36,000 results. Honestly, I can't even use the results to identify a likely number of votes placed. The total vote value that most nearly yields whole numbers on each percentage is indeed 12001, which much more closely yields whole numbers than any other value. That stumps me, because I find it extremely unlikely that every shareholder voted. Especially when shareholders have specifically stated here that they didn't vote. I'd go so far as to say that there's likely a bug in how those votes are being reported by the UI. I'm giving up on it, because I can't reach a solid conclusion. I'm not going to waste more energy fighting it, because I don't see a liquidation in the cards. I would like to see a plan from Wylker though, because even if liquidation isn't going to happen, continuing on the same course that has already failed to pay a single dividend seems quite bizarre. Somethings got to change, regardless that the apparent outcome of the vote is to change nothing. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.27 08:26:00 - [452] The more I look at Excel, the more convinced I am that the given percentages for each option can only be derived from a vote total of 12001 votes. 10 decimal places really is a lot to work with, and no other vote total even comes close. I do really find it impossible that every shareholder voted. I'm thinking bug, either in how the vote is being reported, or in all unvoted shares defaulting to the first option in the vote. I'm actually going to apologize to Wylker for accusing him of voting his shares. It seemed an obvious conclusion at the time, but Excel is really pointing me at the "bug" angle now. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Shinhan Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.11.27 08:46:00 - [453] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: cosmoray Scenario 1. If Wylker didn't vote his 8001 shares, so 4000 shares voted: 1. 83.0097491876% means that 3320.39 shares voted for option A 2. 5.84117990167% means that 233.6472 shares voted for option B 3. 11.1490709108% means that 445.9628 shares voted for option C OK who has been voting with SHARE FRACTIONS. Scenario 2. If Wylker did vote his 8001 shares. 1. 83.0097491876% means that 9962 shares voted for option A 2. 5.84117990167% means that 701 shares voted for option B 3. 11.1490709108% means that 1338 shares voted for option C This actually seems like a very good method of detecting how many shares voted... It is actually quite interesting that no one else thought this up previously. It's quite obvious and seems to make mathematical sense. Time to go back through some old threads to check some votes I think. You didnt notice my post? Its at the bottom of the 14th page. Is it possible to setup "default vote", so those who havent voted at all are counted as if they voted for option "A"? Anyway, the fact that 100% shares have been used in the voting is very strange. Wylker, if you are absolutely sure you havent voted and nobody else has access to your account, file a petition to CCP. -- Selling apples, 1 signature each. ѼѼѼѼѼѼѼ
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.27 09:24:00 - [454] I am gonna test the default to A theory now. Will see what happens in 24 hours. Will have all but 200 shares vote on Option B, with the final 200 shares not vote at all. If the current guess is correct, that would mean the 200 default to an Option A vote and the whole voting system is corrupt. this would subsequently mean any new votes would have an a) No vote b) Yes c) No type system in order to work. Either way we will find out in 24 hours once this vote has occured. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.27 14:45:00 - [455] Originally by: Shadarle It is actually quite interesting that no one else thought this up previously. It's quite obvious and seems to make mathematical sense. Time to go back through some old threads to check some votes I think. How do you think that I posted the number of shares that did not vote on the change to financing for DATAC? I am suprised that more of you didn't already know this. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.27 15:37:00 - [456] In fairness, it's an insignificant detail to 99.9% of the EVE populace. I probably read that post of yours once, but had no memory of it. When I did read it, I wouldn't have cared how you knew what you knew, because I wasn't hounding you for failing to meet obligations. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.27 15:53:00 - [457] Originally by: Kitex In fairness, it's an insignificant detail to 99.9% of the EVE populace. True, I would not have expected many people in say General Discussion to know this, but I would think that this community with all the votes and polling that is done would have known that. In any case, everyone reading this thread knows: and knowing is half the battle. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.27 18:35:00 - [458] Edited by: Shadarle on 27/11/2007 18:35:13 Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Kitex In fairness, it's an insignificant detail to 99.9% of the EVE populace. True, I would not have expected many people in say General Discussion to know this, but I would think that this community with all the votes and polling that is done would have known that. In any case, everyone reading this thread knows: and knowing is half the battle. I've never issued a share vote myself and I've only seen them posted about 2-3 times in the past, usually just percentages are listed. Only 1 other vote was listed differently. I want to go back and dig up the CRA vote on revealing shareholder names now though. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.27 19:35:00 - [459] Yeah I've never really looked into other people's votes, but I can tell you certainty that I did not set any kind of "default option" nor did I vote with any of my personal shares or with the non-voting 6001 shares held by Portsmouth. If the information about the reporting is in fact correct, I also agree that it is ridiculous to assume that every single shareholder voted. I know for a fact that a few of my corp mates that hold shares have been out of town for the holiday weekend and wouldn't even have been able to log in and vote. In the interest of making sure of things, I will put up an identical vote again tonight and we'll see what happens. In the interim, I will flesh out my plans for the other options to see what reaction from shareholders looks like. I will most likely be taking a partner or two going forward since I am just not able to devote the necessary time to this venture right now. More details to come. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
cosmoray	Posted - 2007.11.27 20:08:00 - [460] Sorry Wylker numbers don't lie, there is no alternative vote outcome that proves you didn't vote. Maybe all spare votes defaulted to option A. In the interests as fairness for the vote please set up: 1. Liquidation 2. T2 other production 3. Carry on as before This will help with the potential default voting. Also we can run the numbers again, with the vote details. note: Now that you don't want to spend as much time running the IPO any longer why are you even bothering with the vote. Give the money back and move on.
May Shiko	Posted - 2007.11.27 20:23:00 - [461] Originally by: Wylker I will most likely be taking a partner or two going forward since I am just not able to devote the necessary time to this venture right now. More details to come. I have to agree with cosmoray, and again, speaking on behalf of at least one share, this is not what was agreed to. It's safe to say that the original model for this IPO has failed spectacularly, people didn't sign up for a co-operatively run non-capital production IPO. I could understand the changes if it helped to boost already established profits. But you've yet to pay out a single isk in dividends. Why should the investors and people like myself who forum ***** on behalf of shareholders, allow you to bring further individuals into this IPO? They are simply further factors that increase the chance of a scam at this point in time. If you're going to continue down this road of significant changes, I wish to reinforce and restate my desire (on behalf of others as a private broker) that you offer a buyback as an exit strategy for people who are not interested in the future of this IPO.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.27 20:30:00 - [462] Originally by: cosmoray Sorry Wylker numbers don't lie, there is no alternative vote outcome that proves you didn't vote. Maybe all spare votes defaulted to option A. Heres what proves I didn't vote: I said I didn't vote. Seriously. Don't make me get all internet tough guy and ask you to call me a liar to my face. If you read the posts above, it is fairly obvious that there is a problem with the vote, as only a complete and utter dumbass would believe that 100% of all shares actually voted. If you choose to believe that then go ahead, but I can't give any rational response to it. Now, as much as I appreciate the impassioned voices of people who are posting here, and can respect everyone's opinion, the bottom line is that there are a great many people who have interest in this project. Please continue to share your opinions and give suggestions, and of course I will absorb any and all feedback; but to expect me to make a decision based off the posts in this thread is completely unfair to the entire population that doesn't frequent the forums. This is the point of the vote. I will put up another 96 hour vote tonight, and I like the idea of changing the order of the options, so I will do that as well. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.27 20:32:00 - [463] Originally by: May Shiko you offer a buyback as an exit strategy for people who are not interested in the future of this IPO. The problem with this is that there can not be a partial buyback. If I liquidate (at a loss) assets to allow people to have shares repurchased, it will invalidate the ability of the program to make ANY returns at ANY point. I have made this point before and going forward I am likely going to not respond to points that have been beaten to death. Please read the entire thread and make suggestions based on new ideas or building upon points that have been raised already. It is very difficult to have intelligent discourse when we lose the thread of the discussion. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.27 20:40:00 - [464] Originally by: Wylker Originally by: May Shiko you offer a buyback as an exit strategy for people who are not interested in the future of this IPO. The problem with this is that there can not be a partial buyback. If I liquidate (at a loss) assets to allow people to have shares repurchased, it will invalidate the ability of the program to make ANY returns at ANY point. I have made this point before and going forward I am likely going to not respond to points that have been beaten to death. Please read the entire thread and make suggestions based on new ideas or building upon points that have been raised already. It is very difficult to have intelligent discourse when we lose the thread of the discussion. There we go, we now have a definitive answer to the question of if he'll offer a buyback. No. Not sure where that leaves all the people who want the hell out... but at least they now know they are stuck. A good question to Wylker is this though. What % of people have to want liquidation for you to do it? 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%? The vote is worthless if we don't have a pre-determined number to look for to know what the vote means. Otherwise any result could be offset by a "Well, that isn't high enough so we'll continue on". Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.27 20:42:00 - [465] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Wylker Originally by: May Shiko you offer a buyback as an exit strategy for people who are not interested in the future of this IPO. The problem with this is that there can not be a partial buyback. If I liquidate (at a loss) assets to allow people to have shares repurchased, it will invalidate the ability of the program to make ANY returns at ANY point. I have made this point before and going forward I am likely going to not respond to points that have been beaten to death. Please read the entire thread and make suggestions based on new ideas or building upon points that have been raised already. It is very difficult to have intelligent discourse when we lose the thread of the discussion. There we go, we now have a definitive answer to the question of if he'll offer a buyback. No. Not sure where that leaves all the people who want the hell out... but at least they now know they are stuck. A good question to Wylker is this though. What % of people have to want liquidation for you to do it? 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%? The vote is worthless if we don't have a pre-determined number to look for to know what the vote means. Otherwise any result could be offset by a "Well, that isn't high enough so we'll continue on". 1) I still would like to offer a buy back as soon as some profits are made. One way or the other there is a lot of isk to be made, right now it is a question of how and how much. I don't want to leave anyone out in the cold but there is a certain reality to the situation as well 2) I would say a simple plurality rules here, I think asking for an absolute majority would be too difficult. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.27 20:44:00 - [466] Originally by: Wylker Please read the entire thread and make suggestions based on new ideas or building upon points that have been raised already. It is very difficult to have intelligent discourse when we lose the thread of the discussion. A suggestion? Synthesize down the points made in this thread and start a brand spanking new discussion thread all of its very own. Using the ipo thread itself to try to handle various topics quickly becomes burdensome as the pages just grow and grow. Isolate the topics into their own discussion to avoid clutter. Anyone wants to post on another topic can be directed either to a thread covering that or to a new thread on that... perhaps even a hearing petition thread. If they continue, state you are ignoring their posts unless they post it in >link< thread. If you worry about losing track of topics you can always update your original ipo thread with a small index of "official matters" brought before the "board" as it were. Taikun's Lost Bet
May Shiko	Posted - 2007.11.27 20:46:00 - [467] Maybe it's time to liquidate, pay out those who want out, see where you stand and evaluate your position from there? It's not impossible, it's quite feasible there are many options out there. It's quite possible to make 10% a month off of 10billion, and that's very easy on real life. How do I know? I do it with Shiko Productions. Other people make even more off of larger sums of money, FastLearner does it with Fury Bank. As investors, we've shown a lot of faith, a lot of patience. Ultimately, we can not force you to return the money we trusted you with, but you're pretty much selling your reputation. As investors, we're quite willing to deal with the fact that business models and markets fail. We generally don't forget people who come asking for money, and then proceed to do as they please, ignoring requests, very well. You're already abandoning the idea of the PSI IPO, by changing the fields you work in, by proposing bringing others in, a lot of us are simply no longer interested in doing business with you. Again, if you'd like to sell your reputation for 40billion, it's not the smallest amount, nor is it the largest, nor will it be forgotten. I'd like to stress, on behalf of approximately forty or so individuals, who represent many a few billion isk for investing purposes, that you don't sell your reputation for so little. There's more to be made in the long run, and jerking around the people who gave you cash in the first place, is not a smart move.
Letias Caldari Teikoku Trade Conglomerate Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2007.11.27 21:05:00 - [468] Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Wylker Originally by: May Shiko you offer a buyback as an exit strategy for people who are not interested in the future of this IPO. The problem with this is that there can not be a partial buyback. If I liquidate (at a loss) assets to allow people to have shares repurchased, it will invalidate the ability of the program to make ANY returns at ANY point. I have made this point before and going forward I am likely going to not respond to points that have been beaten to death. Please read the entire thread and make suggestions based on new ideas or building upon points that have been raised already. It is very difficult to have intelligent discourse when we lose the thread of the discussion. There we go, we now have a definitive answer to the question of if he'll offer a buyback. No. Not sure where that leaves all the people who want the hell out... but at least they now know they are stuck. A good question to Wylker is this though. What % of people have to want liquidation for you to do it? 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%? The vote is worthless if we don't have a pre-determined number to look for to know what the vote means. Otherwise any result could be offset by a "Well, that isn't high enough so we'll continue on". 1) I still would like to offer a buy back as soon as some profits are made. In all this time you haven't sold anything
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.27 21:18:00 - [469] Originally by: Letias Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Wylker Originally by: May Shiko you offer a buyback as an exit strategy for people who are not interested in the future of this IPO. The problem with this is that there can not be a partial buyback. If I liquidate (at a loss) assets to allow people to have shares repurchased, it will invalidate the ability of the program to make ANY returns at ANY point. I have made this point before and going forward I am likely going to not respond to points that have been beaten to death. Please read the entire thread and make suggestions based on new ideas or building upon points that have been raised already. It is very difficult to have intelligent discourse when we lose the thread of the discussion. There we go, we now have a definitive answer to the question of if he'll offer a buyback. No. Not sure where that leaves all the people who want the hell out... but at least they now know they are stuck. A good question to Wylker is this though. What % of people have to want liquidation for you to do it? 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%? The vote is worthless if we don't have a pre-determined number to look for to know what the vote means. Otherwise any result could be offset by a "Well, that isn't high enough so we'll continue on". 1) I still would like to offer a buy back as soon as some profits are made. In all this time you haven't sold anything If hes yet to make any profit, you arent even trying. Its still possible to make isk, in fact with little work. It just isnt that profitable. But its definately possible to make at least 1bill during what.. 3 months? Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.27 21:25:00 - [470] I just wonder what the theory is... that profits will go up AFTER the nerf hits next patch? If there was a time to make a profit it was up until the last few weeks. Before that you could make a profit (albeit a fairly small one), but if you haven't made a single ISK in 3-4 months then you honestly should just give up and liquidate. You should tons of copies of all your BPO's to sell which would be worth at least a billion isk over all this time if not a lot more. I'm baffled if even something as easy and quick as running copies wasn't done... when you clearly weren't producing anything anyhow. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.27 22:54:00 - [471] Pardon the humor here, this is not a troll, but is anyone else noticing that the PSI motto "Reach for the sky" is also the first words of an old fashion western hold up? /me imagines Wylker walking into the Market Forum. Wylker chews some tobacco, spits, pull his gun shouting, "Reach for the sky." Taikun's Lost Bet
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.28 03:50:00 - [472] Except he isn't riding into the sunset with the money like the bank robbers of old would, he is sitting down right in the middle of everyone and refusing to give it back. He's probably just sitting there because of the size of the balls he must have to do it leaves him unable to move. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.11.28 03:55:00 - [473] Originally by: Shadarle Except he isn't riding into the sunset with the money like the bank robbers of old would, he is sitting down right in the middle of everyone and refusing to give it back. He's probably just sitting there because of the size of the balls he must have to do it leaves him unable to move. Lmfao,,, quotified Improve Market Competition! Originally by: Shadarle Exce
Boone Kai	Posted - 2007.11.28 04:01:00 - [474] If you all really want to talk to Wylker, you could just check out his posts on Scrapheap Challenge or pm him there. He posts there daily, and therefore should be much more accessible. Here's his post on this IPO: http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?p=292678
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.28 05:17:00 - [475] Originally by: Boone Kai If you all really want to talk to Wylker, you could just check out his posts on Scrapheap Challenge or pm him there. He posts there daily, and therefore should be much more accessible. Here's his post on this IPO: http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?p=292678 The amount of times i have pointed this out is stupid. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.11.28 06:39:00 - [476] Originally by: Boone Kai If you all really want to talk to Wylker, you could just check out his posts on Scrapheap Challenge or pm him there. He posts there daily, and therefore should be much more accessible. Though he doesn't ***** these forums like some of us, I actually have no problem at all with his current level of participation in this thread. He's participating, and has posted quite reasonably in the presence of some lingering hostility. I'll reserve judgment to see if things continue to proceed along a course to a resolution of some sort, but for now my biggest area of concern (communication) does not seem to be going too poorly. It's a bit of an about-face for me, but I'm all for credit where it's due. I'm still hoping for a resolution involving liquidation because I believe there are more stable and reliable sources of income available, but I'm willing to do my ranting with my votes for now. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.28 07:24:00 - [477] Buzz Lightyear also says "Reach for the sky" as one of his buttons. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Riethe	Posted - 2007.11.28 07:30:00 - [478] Originally by: Ricdic Buzz Lightyear also says "Reach for the sky" as one of his buttons. I thought that was Woody.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.28 07:32:00 - [479] TO INFINITY, AND BEYO.... Just kidding, new vote is up. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.28 07:37:00 - [480] Originally by: Riethe Originally by: Ricdic Buzz Lightyear also says "Reach for the sky" as one of his buttons. I thought that was Woody. You don't turn me on that much any more, sorry Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Veronique deEstelle Gallente Advanced Technologies And Research Inc	Posted - 2007.11.28 11:07:00 - [481] There has been a lot of talking about the various options. I would like to know Wylker's opinion to the choices at hand as he is the one who has learnt a thing or two so far and is supposed to carry out the vote.
Marcus Baltar	Posted - 2007.11.28 12:13:00 - [482] Originally by: Wylker TO INFINITY, AND BEYO.... Just kidding, new vote is up. As I only have a few shares, I would just like to add my 0.02 ISK to this thread. If there is a problem with the share voting system counting any non-voting shares as option 1, surely the first option should be "A vote here means nothing", with the other options listed as required? This would then require a deliberate effort by anyone that wants to vote with their shares to choose a valid option, and if the system does have a default "Option 1" it will not matter. Please CCP, can we have some clarification on how the whole share voting system works?
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:15:00 - [483] Originally by: Marcus Baltar Please CCP, can we have some clarification on how the whole share voting system works? And what makes you think that they know? Taikun's Lost Bet
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:53:00 - [484] I will have the answer in a few minutes when I log in Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:58:00 - [485] Ok, the EBANK board of directors have 200 shares each. The vote said no-one was to vote on option 1. Shar and I didn't vote at all. At least 1 did vote (not sure who did/didn't) Either way, 0% showed as voting on option #1. Even without shares, your corp gets the option to vote on an option. EBANK didn't do any vote either. Ok so conclusion. A non-vote does not result in a default to option 1. Cheers. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
cosmoray	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:15:00 - [486] Ricdic can you copy the E-bank vote results here. I am only interested in the values with the percentage of people who voted in. e.g (Option 1. 11.209631%/100) where 100 is the % of people who voted, in E-banks case hopefully less than 100. This will help give a feel to the look of the new PSI vote. What we know: 1. Voting system seems to work 2. PSI has 12001 total voting shares 3. We will be able to accurately account for the voting outcomes and decide what blocks of shares are voted. 4. If Wylker DOES NOT vote (as he promised) and everyone else DOES the max percentage of voters should be around 33%. This would look like: Option 1 (22.9863681/33). etc.....
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.28 15:03:00 - [487] Edited by: Ricdic on 28/11/2007 15:02:46 Originally by: cosmoray Ricdic can you copy the E-bank vote results here. Your wish is my command http://users.tpg.com.au/ricdic/vote.jpg Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.28 15:03:00 - [488] Edited by: Matalino on 28/11/2007 15:04:27 The example that I provided eariler was taken directly from the Financing vote for DATAC. Unless they have rewritten the voting system in the past couple of weeks then it would still be the same. Originally by: Ricdic http://users.tpg.com.au/ricdic/vote.jpg An thus we see that 22.2% voted. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.11.28 15:10:00 - [489] The plot thickens. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.28 15:46:00 - [490] Originally by: Minerva Vulcan The plot thickens. /me put's his teaspoon in the pot of plot and is amazed to see the spoon sticks up! Rate my charecters please
Nicho Void Hyper-Nova Tenth Legion	Posted - 2007.11.29 22:55:00 - [491] This feels like "Dances with Wolves". It just won't end.
Boone Kai	Posted - 2007.11.30 04:31:00 - [492] Come on. He apparently hasn't made any money at all with all the isk that has been invested. If this isn't a scam, what is? He could have at least sold BPC's for some isk, but didn't even have the motivation for that. I ask you, after all the time this has been going on, and even given how business plans can change, how is this not a scam except for the fact that he hasn't announced it?
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.30 04:48:00 - [493] Yep in my opinion my money is lost. The fact that only a tiny percentage voted to liquidate 10% or so I can only wonder why Wylker doesn't just buyback that 10% and reissue them to people who want them. We had the same sort of scenario with ISS (except ISS were actually paying dividends). Investors in ISS wanted to get out but ISS refused to provide the buyback. This made Roemy and Shadarle very angry so every month they would be mad at Stins and ISS as they felt they were stuck in an investment that they didn't want. Anyway, the end result was not just a buyback but ISS shut down shop. If only 10% want to liquidate, ACCEPT their request and keep things going. It's far better to let them out rather than having them constantly on your back. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
cosmoray	Posted - 2007.11.30 13:41:00 - [494] Is a 2nd vote going ahead? has it ended? results?
Richard Kitan United Space Republic Research	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:59:00 - [495] Originally by: cosmoray Is a 2nd vote going ahead? has it ended? results? Second vote is underway. It doesn't end until 12/2. For the record, my 15 shares voted "Option 1" - Liquidate. -- Richard Kitan Builder of Stuff
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:41:00 - [496] It just amazes me that Wylker doesn't do one of two things. 1. Buy back the 11% of the shares that people want to sell out, then reissue them to the 89% who still want to be in. 2. Admit he will never pay a div and is scamming. The only excuses for not making any profit up to now are scam or incompetence. You can decide for yourself which is worse. Make a choice Wylker. If you want your name to be worth anything then offer the buyback. If you're afraid everyone will take it so you'll have no money to continue then that just proves the point that it is time to liquidate. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:54:00 - [497] Shadarle should be god Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Meleil	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:55:00 - [498] Originally by: Ricdic Shadarle should be god I thought he was O.o ... In his mind
Riethe	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:55:00 - [499] Originally by: Ricdic Shadarle should be god What's to say he isn't already? Huh? Mind blown.
Ritooria	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:50:00 - [500] this thread is all win. stupendously epic.
Auri Hella	Posted - 2007.12.01 00:08:00 - [501] Originally by: Ricdic Shadarle should be god Drunkpost
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.12.01 22:34:00 - [502] only two shares left; those that have faith in this "venture", feel free to hit me up and take them at the low low introductory ipo price of 10m each. oh wait, let me rephrase that, if you DO have faith that this will not be a scam of a 60b proportion - hit me up for the low low markuponipoprice of 11m each -- 22m total thank you, please drive thru. solid liquid
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.12.02 08:19:00 - [503] Well, the 2nd vote is over. This time, I'm showing 0% on all options. Do you all see the same thing? I just don't understand why the vote keeps coming out so funky. Maybe it will update after downtime. Or maybe baby Jesus just doesn't want this vote to take place. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.02 08:29:00 - [504] Originally by: Kitex Well, the 2nd vote is over. This time, I'm showing 0% on all options. Do you all see the same thing? I just don't understand why the vote keeps coming out so funky. Maybe it will update after downtime. Or maybe baby Jesus just doesn't want this vote to take place. Thats a bug, that, if you are to believe the GM's, doesnt exist Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.02 10:02:00 - [505] Works fine for me: Liquidate: 61.56% Continue with carriers etc: 10.19% Branch out into new stuff: 28.25% I'm pleased to see that the option I originally voted for has gained more support. I suppose the massive swing towards liquidation is due to Wylker not voting? My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.02 10:28:00 - [506] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Works fine for me: Liquidate: 61.56% Continue with carriers etc: 10.19% Branch out into new stuff: 28.25% I'm pleased to see that the option I originally voted for has gained more support. I suppose the massive swing towards liquidation is due to Wylker not voting? Wow, thats a massive swing. Just liquidate now Wylker and lets move on. Please? Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.12.02 12:01:00 - [507] Show me the money! ...is what I would be saying if I'd invested in this. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.02 13:26:00 - [508] Startling turn of events. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.02 14:13:00 - [509] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Works fine for me: Liquidate: 61.56% Continue with carriers etc: 10.19% Branch out into new stuff: 28.25% I'm pleased to see that the option I originally voted for has gained more support. I suppose the massive swing towards liquidation is due to Wylker not voting? How dumb can you possibly be? Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.02 14:14:00 - [510] Looks like the vote is in, and with a little under 25% participation it is in favor of liquidation. So we'll get that going here. Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.12.02 16:36:00 - [511] Originally by: Wylker How dumb can you possibly be? This, in part, is what separates you from someone I might have voted to stay invested in. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.02 16:38:00 - [512] Originally by: Wylker Looks like the vote is in, and with a little under 25% participation it is in favor of liquidation. So we'll get that going here. wylker dont get discouraged there are many people that would love to invest in you if you come right out with a new ipo right now and a solid business plan - i mean capital ships wont get nerfed again anytime soon ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.12.02 17:33:00 - [513] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Wylker Looks like the vote is in, and with a little under 25% participation it is in favor of liquidation. So we'll get that going here. wylker dont get discouraged there are many people that would love to invest in you if you come right out with a new ipo right now and a solid business plan - i mean capital ships wont get nerfed again anytime soon I've got a bridge for sale... Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.02 17:50:00 - [514] Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Works fine for me: Liquidate: 61.56% Continue with carriers etc: 10.19% Branch out into new stuff: 28.25% I'm pleased to see that the option I originally voted for has gained more support. I suppose the massive swing towards liquidation is due to Wylker not voting? How dumb can you possibly be? I prefer to think of it as a mix of suspicion, laziness & ignorance as to how the voting system works in equal measures. How would you explain the swing? My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Veronique deEstelle Gallente Advanced Technologies And Research Inc	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:31:00 - [515] Allright, and we know the vote is right this time because...?^^
desmuction	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:00:00 - [516] this is a joke
Havok Pierce Gallente D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:01:00 - [517] Originally by: Ricdic Startling turn of events. Shazbot, Ricdic, you broke my sarcasm detector; I just fixed this thing! Originally by: CCP Wrangler There's a Community petition category??
Nicho Void Hyper-Nova Tenth Legion	Posted - 2007.12.06 15:44:00 - [518] Waiting.
Daeva Vios PhaseShifter Technologies	Posted - 2007.12.07 10:19:00 - [519] Edited by: Daeva Vios on 07/12/2007 10:19:59 I hate to be the one to state the obvious, but you'll likely be waiting a very long time. Write it off and move on, Wylker's a scammer plain and simple. The only sad thing is he doesn't have the balls to come out and say it.
YouGotRipped	Posted - 2007.12.09 03:14:00 - [520] I've peroused the 18 pages of this scam of epic proportions and I would like to point the following to you people: You got ripped. First of all it was absolutely clear that another capital ship building IPO (started when others were backing out) would fail and yet you all invested like sheeps. The only one gaining from this would be the OP because... The Aftermath Alliance developed their capital ship capabilities using your money. Wilker was honest in one thing though: when he said they didn't have the money for it. Yes, they planed the whole thing at the highest level of the alliance yet it is unclear if only the recent turn of events (nerfing) is the cause for scamming. They probably intended to pay dividends from time to time just to keep your mouth shut but nowhere near the 15% promised. Assuming they will give back some, expect 1/10 of the initial investment. As for interest hahah
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.09 03:37:00 - [521] The Capital market isn't exactly dead. It's all about what you do with it. TCCS is capital only and I believe we sunk about a 13% dividend last month. But you are probably right, I have written off my PSI so it's not a big deal. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.09 09:17:00 - [522] Edited by: LaVista Vista on 09/12/2007 09:17:49 http://scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?p=304610#304610 I'd write it off by now me thinks. Also, why would this IPO have been spent on Aftermath alliance's capital fleet? Thats pretty darn stupid, since Wylker's corp is no longer in that corp
Ion Halo	Posted - 2007.12.19 18:31:00 - [523] I was hoping this wouldn't happen, but most of us saw it coming. My apologies to anyone who got caught up in this.
Javeir Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.21 03:50:00 - [524] Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 09/12/2007 03:32:34 I've peroused the 18 pages of this scam of epic proportions and I would like to point the following to you people: You got ripped. First of all it was absolutely clear that another capital ship building IPO (started when others were backing out) would fail and yet you all invested like sheeps. The only one gaining from this would be the OP because... The Aftermath Alliance developed their capital ship capabilities using your money. Wilker was honest in one thing though: when he said they didn't have the money for it. Yes, they planed the whole thing at the highest level of the alliance yet it is unclear if only the recent turn of events (nerfing) is the cause for scamming. They probably intended to pay dividends from time to time just to keep your mouth shut but nowhere near the 15% promised. Assuming they will give back some, expect 1/10 of the initial investment. As for interest hahah like he said: in space no one can hear you scream. I want to make it very clear that this Scam by Wylker and friends did not in any way go twords the Aftermath Capitals, and the entire Portsmouth crap had nothing to do with Aftermath at all. Many pilots in my corp, including my directors, lost billions investing in this IPO. Please do not hold Aftermath in any way responsible for Wylkers scam. For whatever reason my corp and alliance is not showing up. Howver, I am the CEO of Shadows of the Dead, and Aftermath is my alliance.
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.21 08:13:00 - [525] Originally by: Javeir Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 09/12/2007 03:32:34 I've peroused the 18 pages of this scam of epic proportions and I would like to point the following to you people: You got ripped. First of all it was absolutely clear that another capital ship building IPO (started when others were backing out) would fail and yet you all invested like sheeps. The only one gaining from this would be the OP because... The Aftermath Alliance developed their capital ship capabilities using your money. Wilker was honest in one thing though: when he said they didn't have the money for it. Yes, they planed the whole thing at the highest level of the alliance yet it is unclear if only the recent turn of events (nerfing) is the cause for scamming. They probably intended to pay dividends from time to time just to keep your mouth shut but nowhere near the 15% promised. Assuming they will give back some, expect 1/10 of the initial investment. As for interest hahah like he said: in space no one can hear you scream. I want to make it very clear that this Scam by Wylker and friends did not in any way go twords the Aftermath Capitals, and the entire Portsmouth crap had nothing to do with Aftermath at all. Many pilots in my corp, including my directors, lost billions investing in this IPO. Please do not hold Aftermath in any way responsible for Wylkers scam. For whatever reason my corp and alliance is not showing up. Howver, I am the CEO of Shadows of the Dead, and Aftermath is my alliance. Your alliance vouched for this dude, dude! Originally by: Aelena Thraant I can vouch that he is a very trusted member of our alliance and OHSHT. Thats the leader of your alliance at the time, vouching for him. This signature is brought to you by EBankÖ, free space for moderators to brag.
Riethe	Posted - 2007.12.21 08:48:00 - [526] Originally by: LaVista Vista Your alliance vouched for this dude, dude! I get the point you're trying to make here, but if the guy isn't lying, they lost out on this too. Yeah, they vouched for him, but if it was under false pretense, can you really say they're responsible? I say this, of course, if you're willing to believe this guy isn't full of bunkum. Chances are they did a big whole thing together and now they're trying to take an easy way out of the whole thing. Who knows. If he isn't lying, though, I really don't think it's all that fair to say he was partially responsible, if he and his alliance got ripped off during this as well. Do your worst.
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2007.12.21 20:15:00 - [527] Begs the question, what value exactly does vouching have anyway? If someone is a scammer, they could have just as easily scammed all those people voiching for him. Or even if they were honest in their prior dealings, 60 billion or whatever number could be enough to turn them. Vouching has always seemed somewhat flimsy to me, and this thing serves as a very good example why.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2007.12.21 20:35:00 - [528] Originally by: Benvie Begs the question, what value exactly does vouching have anyway? If someone is a scammer, they could have just as easily scammed all those people voiching for him. Or even if they were honest in their prior dealings, 60 billion or whatever number could be enough to turn them. Vouching has always seemed somewhat flimsy to me, and this thing serves as a very good example why. I agree with you vouching is pretty flimsy most of the time. The only time it holds any credit with me is if the person doing the vouching is some whom I already trust or respect. No offense to the guys in "Aftermath Alliance". but I didnt know them then and I dont know them now, so their "vouching" means nothing to me. Then there was the vouching by his fellow corp m8's, in "Pyrrhus Sicarii". Whom once agian I dont know at all, so the vouching means nothing to me. In fact for me, vouching from corp m8's who have no prior credabilty or history in MD actually turns the vouching into a negative for me. It just becomes too much like the "secret backers" concept. I think the biggest fail for investors was that they ignored those who in the first page of the thread commented on the then already declining cap ship market. I think at that point it was a matter of the lemming factor once the first few invested. Really people need to think for themselves about what they are about to invest in. Just because you see some one invest does not mean that particular investment is right or worth it for you. --- not sure why I just spent the time to write the above, its not like its going to be read by anyone who would actually benifit from it, hidden this far back at the end of a scam thread. --
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.12.21 20:53:00 - [529] The whole point of vouching for someone is that you are putting your reputation on the line if the other guy scams. You're saying that you trust the person and even though others do not know them well enough to trust them. This is usually done because your reputation is better than the person in questions. The reasoning is that reputation is worth a lot and loss of reputation is a serious anti-scamming method. If someone does not have a reputation to lose then it can be hard to raise capital... thus you get someone to vouch for them. The vouching person is now responsible if it turns into a scam. You shouldn't vouch for someone you don't truly trust, because as soon as you vouch for them it is as much your problem if they scam as it is scammers. It doesn't matter if the vouching person also gets scammed, they were part and parcel to the scam and thus are accessories. Their name has to be dragged through the dirt. If they wish to restore their good name they have to rectify the situation in some way as it was their fault the person was able to scam. If vouching does not work in this way then it is worthless. I personally think people should hold all those who vouched for Wylker responsible and they should be labeled as accessories. We have no way of knowing if they are co-conspirators or not, but they most definitely aided his scamming efforts even if unknowingly. I would highly suggest people think twice before vouching for anyone in the future unless you truly understand the consequences. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Riethe	Posted - 2007.12.21 22:39:00 - [530] I mostly agree with you here Shad, but not entirely. I don't think it's right to go and say, "hey, we got screwed, this guy got screwed, but he told us Wylker was good stuff, so it's his fault too!" I think it's a lot more accurate to say, "Wylker screwed everyone here, and in the future, all the people that vouched for him will not ever influence my decisions again." All of this changes though, the moment that someone finds information that they were accomplices to all this. If they knew this was a scam and put their names up here to assist it, they're all equally accountable. I personally think it's entirely likely that he would show up here and say, "oh, no, guys, we said wylker was the bestest but the troofs is we didn't know." Who wouldn't try to do that to redeem themselves under pressure? So I am of the belief that this was a group activity and that they're just backing down or trying to clear some of their names.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.22 00:51:00 - [531] When I vouch for someone I do it under the complete expectation that if they screw up, I am left having to clean up the mess. When EBANK takes on a loan customer who has people vouching for it, it is determined in advance that if the loanee screws up, the vouchers will be called on to take control of the debt. I guess that's my definition of the term. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.12.22 01:51:00 - [532] Originally by: Riethe I mostly agree with you here Shad, but not entirely. I don't think it's right to go and say, "hey, we got screwed, this guy got screwed, but he told us Wylker was good stuff, so it's his fault too!" I think it's a lot more accurate to say, "Wylker screwed everyone here, and in the future, all the people that vouched for him will not ever influence my decisions again." All of this changes though, the moment that someone finds information that they were accomplices to all this. If they knew this was a scam and put their names up here to assist it, they're all equally accountable. I personally think it's entirely likely that he would show up here and say, "oh, no, guys, we said wylker was the bestest but the troofs is we didn't know." Who wouldn't try to do that to redeem themselves under pressure? So I am of the belief that this was a group activity and that they're just backing down or trying to clear some of their names. In your use of the word vouching is worthless. Unfortunately your use of the word is not the correct use of the word. Here is the definition: Quote: Verb Vouch - give personal assurance; guarantee; "Will he vouch for me?" A vouch is only worth anything if there is that guarantee behind it. Otherwise it is a hollow point because the voucher obviously doesn't trust the person enough to back them with their own money. That is very important to know. They trust them only as long as no money is on the line. That means nothing and if that is what they truly feel they should say so, if they go on the line and vouch for the person then they damn well better be willing to take the blame if the person turns out to be a scammer/thief. Ricdic explained it well, if you are going to put your name behind someone then you better be ready to stand up for your name otherwise your name means nothing. In this case the people who vouched for him should be called out and held accountable. The only people who can really do this are those who invested and got scammed, if they don't care enough about being scammed then the vouchers may get off the hook. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Ion Halo	Posted - 2007.12.22 04:02:00 - [533] How is it not painfully obvious what 'vouching' means? Let's say for example.... I am a manager at a bank and I vouch to my district supervisor that a certain teller is an extremely trustworthy guy and deserves a promotion ( complete with keys, codes, etc), then he turns around and rips the place off, WHO IS LEFT TO BEAR THE BURDEN? Me. He's long gone. And I would hope to keep my job much less look for promotions within the same company. In this case, the people that vouched for Wylker would definately not deserve credibility themselves.... not for a while. It was painfully obvious from page 3 in this thread that this 'laid back, fun loving guy' should not be trusted with any of your money. Maybe this will have people think twice about vouching for people. It's a serious thing regardless of capacity. "Yeah, he's a great guy. You should get involved with him! Totally trustworthy, I'd let him watch my kids! What's that you say? He stole money from you? Not my fault, moron."
Riethe	Posted - 2007.12.22 07:20:00 - [534] Edited by: Riethe on 22/12/2007 07:19:51 Look. If you let your neighbor babysit your daughter based on a reference from someone who wasn't aware your neighbor was a pedophile, you're going to be filing a lawsuit against the person who put your daughter in the ice chest. Not the person who thought they were trustworthy. You just don't listen to the person who referenced them in the future. Just because they thought they knew a person doesn't make them an accessory to murder. Or maybe you can start doing your own research and not rely on other people to tell you what to do because you're mostly lemmings that do whatever Ricdic does. But if it makes you feel better about it all, blame everyone--because misdirecting your frustrations is definitely the way to handle situations like big kids.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.12.22 07:50:00 - [535] You seem to have a problem accepting that words have definitions and meanings. If you vouch for someone you are guaranteeing they are not a scammer. If they turn a scammer you are the one left to pick up the pieces and make things right because you took that responsibility onto yourself. No one forced these people to vouch, they did it on their own and they should realize there are consequences for doing so. Vouching has a meaning and a purpose. Just because you don't believe in accountability doesn't mean others don't. You don't value your reputation, thus you sold it for 40 billion. Others value their reputation more than you do, so it may be a bit hard for you to understand the importance of vouching. But it only has value if people hold those who vouch for scammers responsible. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Riethe	Posted - 2007.12.22 08:12:00 - [536] Actually, this has nothing to do with my reputation/accountability. You know as well as I do that Riethe is just a fantasy character created to serve one purpose: generate ISK. So my reputation is perfectly fine, actually. It's not a matter of accountability. If EVERY TIME someone said something that ended up not being true was illegal or punishable, we'd all be in a hell of a lot of trouble right now. Find me an example where someone was punished for something like this, in, preferably, a civilized justice system. Let's try this: I just went to the barber, got an amazing haircut! It was incredibly cheap and the guy was very friendly! I highly suggest you go when you need a haircut! 3 months later. You take me up on that advice. You get there, seems alright. The person giving you a haircut has an attitude, does a horrible job, and charges you way more than you expected. You come back to me and say, "HEY! RIETHE! LOOK AT MY HAIR! THAT BARBER SUCKED" and I say, "what happened? Did you go to the place I said?" and you're just like, "yeah, I did, and look what happened!" Well it turns out, the barber that cut my hair wasn't even working there anymore, and it was a completely different guy. And I should make it up to you? This is my fault? How was I supposed to know it was going to be owned by a different barber by the time you got around to your haircut? Wylker convinced a bunch of people he was a rad dude, and then quit being a barber. Simple as that.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.22 10:52:00 - [537] Originally by: Riethe If you let your neighbor babysit your daughter based on a reference from someone who wasn't aware your neighbor was a pedophile, you're going to be filing a lawsuit against the person who put your daughter in the ice chest. Well there are 2 pretty clear comparisons. Character Reference - Some posted them here, I showed them as such. Based on their experience with the character they posted their dealings. Vouch - A person who commits to being responsible for the person's actions. EBANK works in the same fashion. We take a character reference as a partial security on a loan but put more trust into someone vouching for the other. Obviously in both cases it is irrelevant if the person vouching isn't to be trusted (same deal with the character reference). In the EBANK example. If someone vouches for someone else, and that person defaults, and the 'voucher' doesn't follow through on repaying the debt, we blacklist both. If someone gives a character reference for another and the person falls through we write off the loss and blacklist the loanee, whilst we may lower our trust in the character reference (but we won't blacklist them). Same deal with a judge in criminal law. If you post as a character reference you are doing nothing more than swearing that all your dealings with the person have been successful. If you are posting bail for someone you are promising the judge that you will not get your bail back if the person skips town. So you are holding yourself responsible in some form. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.12.22 11:06:00 - [538] I have started a new thread on this topic to discuss it away from this already enlarged thread. You can have a look here and give your opinions, beliefs etc etc Cheers http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Shaki'h Brighthead Amarr Tagazok Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:43:00 - [539] So, what's going on? Can we hope our shares will be bought back? I bought 80 shares... but since I've been waiting for too long, I'm willing to sell them... Anyone interested? Thanks!
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:49:00 - [540] Originally by: Shaki'h Brighthead So, what's going on? Can we hope our shares will be bought back? I bought 80 shares... but since I've been waiting for too long, I'm willing to sell them... Anyone interested? Thanks! Reading the thread is generally a smart thing to do before posting. This is a scam. You won't get a penny for them. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Shaki'h Brighthead Amarr Tagazok Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:55:00 - [541] Originally by: Shadarle Reading the thread is generally a smart thing to do before posting. This is a scam. You won't get a penny for them. I've read it, but it still wasn't clear enough for me. Now it is! Well... Better luck next time :] Thanks for answering :)
Rogue Vol	Posted - 2007.12.31 08:29:00 - [542] I win this thread.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.01.02 21:20:00 - [543] Originally by: Rogue Vol I win this thread. did you get some psi? Trashed sig, Shark was here
Rogue Vol	Posted - 2008.01.03 18:34:00 - [544] I'm the only one who got their isk back from Wylker, therefore...
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.01.03 18:37:00 - [545] Originally by: Rogue Vol I'm the only one who got their isk back from Wylker, therefore... therefore... You were in on the scam? Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Rogue Vol	Posted - 2008.01.03 18:48:00 - [546] therefore....I win this thread.
Zathi Shaitan Minmatar Illiteracy Combatants	Posted - 2008.01.03 19:05:00 - [547] Of course it was a scam. Gruesome grammar in the OP, so... just keep in mind: Never ... EVER ... trust illiterate people.
Boone Kai	Posted - 2008.01.09 05:26:00 - [548] So did the payout promised on SHC ever happen?
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.01.09 06:21:00 - [549] Originally by: Boone Kai So did the payout promised on SHC ever happen? Not sure about "promised" but the payout to wykler's wallet went according to his plan(s). AKA Scamtastic --
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2008.01.14 02:25:00 - [550] Originally by: Zathi Shaitan Of course it was a scam. Gruesome grammar in the OP, so... just keep in mind: Never ... EVER ... trust illiterate people. Wow. I thought it was very well written. Anyway. Heres the final word. This was never intended to be a scam, a combination of being really busy, losing interest, and the disappearance of some of my support led to this entire venture sitting on the back burner for a very long time. I had originally intended to liquidate and refund as much isk as possible but as of right now I have loaned out all the BPOs that I had to various parties and I'm not really sure when/if I'll get them back. On that note, I'm sorry to anyone that lost isk in this deal, if I could have had a crystal ball I probably would have never started this thing. I have paid a few people back, and will probably try to get some isk sent out to a few people who I care about personally. I certainly didn't need anyone's isk, but I guess no one will really every believe that. Other than that, most of you probably need to move on. Sorry again, I wish everyone the best of luck. <3
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.01.14 08:22:00 - [551] In that case. Your even more incompetent than we thought. You should just have said you scammed it all instead of making yourself sound more stupid :S This signature is brought to you by EBankÖ, free space for moderators to brag.
Sofia Roseburn Caldari Taurus Inc	Posted - 2008.01.14 14:05:00 - [552] Wylker isn't incompetent. He's just human. -----
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.01.14 14:24:00 - [553] Originally by: Sofia Roseburn Wylker isn't incompetent. He's just human. thats understanable because lavista vista is wrong generally 2 halves the time.
Richard Kitan United Space Republic Research	Posted - 2008.01.14 15:39:00 - [554] Originally by: Sofia Roseburn Wylker isn't incompetent. He's just human. If I'm reading his post correctly, he gave away the BPOs that he purchased with public money, and is now only paying back his friends - all the while maintaining it's not a scam. That's not "human", it's either a scam, or incompetence. -- Richard Kitan Builder of Stuff
Investigador Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:08:00 - [555] Edited by: Investigador on 14/01/2008 16:11:41 Originally by: Wylker Anyway. Heres the final word. This was never intended to be a scam, That's what all IPO scammers say. Originally by: Wylker a combination of being really busy, losing interest, and the disappearance of some of my support led to this entire venture sitting on the back burner for a very long time. And you decided to give away/spend all of that isk sitting there, instead of keeping it so you could return it to the investors that actually put it there. Richard Kitan makes a good summary of the rest of your post, only that I don't share his interpretation that this could be incompetence. I mean, come on, look at the chatlog he posted where he tricks Ricdic into investing and how he sweet-talked Ricdic for 2 or 3 weeks and then at the end he avoided skillfully all questions about scamming (I hope this is the right scam, since I can't find the post). Does it sound like incompetence to you? So. If it can only be either scam or incompetence. And if we know for a fact that he is not incompetent. Then, by elimination, the only conclusion is that he is a scammer(). And his behaviour is the same one as competent scammers trying to save face before turning around again and laughing to people who believed him..... () Aristotle's sophisms + pigeonhole principle FTW P.D.: Oh, and of course, the final word belongs to the investors not to the ipo holder. Btw, trying to steal the final word is also what a scammer would do, you know.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:17:00 - [556] Originally by: Investigador I mean, come on, look at the chatlog he posted where he tricks Ricdic into investing and how he sweet-talked Ricdic for 2 or 3 weeks and then at the end he avoided skillfully all questions about scamming (I hope this is the right scam, since I can't find the post). Does it sound like incompetence to you? I think you are thinking of the Reithe Scam, not this one. --
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:23:00 - [557] Fine it was all a scam, thanks for the isk. Lollerskates amirite? I bought 40 bil worth of genetically enhanced livestock, quafe, and exotic dancers and had the nastiest orgy ever. Thanks for your contributions.
Ricdic's Hoe	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:23:00 - [558] Edited by: Ricdic''s Hoe on 14/01/2008 16:26:10 Originally by: Investigador I mean, come on, look at the chatlog he posted where he tricks Ricdic into investing and how he sweet-talked Ricdic for 2 or 3 weeks and then at the end he avoided skillfully all questions about scamming (I hope this is the right scam, since I can't find the post). Does it sound like incompetence to you? That was Riethe With this corp it was simply the OP started the investment, things didn't go his way, decided it was too much work, and gave up the easy way. We can call it incompetence or we can call it what it is, a scam. There was no sweet talking on this one. I saw all the people "vouching" for and giving great character references and invested in it. The above didn't lead me to believe they would repay the debt in the event of his default, but that there were enough positive experiences by his friends to suggest he would do the right thing. I only had a small investment in PSI anyway but yeh I probably invested also because everyone was doing it (by I , I mean Ricdic. EBANK weren't live at time of this IPO) edit quoted extra crap
Investigador Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:30:00 - [559] Edited by: Investigador on 14/01/2008 16:32:29 Edited by: Investigador on 14/01/2008 16:31:06 Yeah, I confused that chatlog there, sorry. I edited my post. This leads us to another passionate question: Are all scammers just incompetent guys? P.D.: lol, I read Ricdic's post before Wylker's post. Wylker, good luck with those exotic dancers, and don't get any STI.
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:45:00 - [560] Originally by: Wylker Anyway. Heres the final word. This was never intended to be a scam, a combination of being really busy, losing interest, and the disappearance of some of my support led to this entire venture sitting on the back burner for a very long time. I had originally intended to liquidate and refund as much isk as possible but as of right now I have loaned out all the BPOs that I had to various parties and I'm not really sure when/if I'll get them back. So basically you lacked the skills/ability to run the IPO effectively and you lacked the morals/decency to do the right thing once you discovered your shortfalls. You aren't a scam, you're an inept person with no morals. Gotcha. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Brisco Smiley Peppermint Bay Trading Company	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:53:00 - [561] Originally by: Wylker the final word Smart money doesn't need apologies and doesn't hold grudges. If you want to go out as a poor business rather than a scam, it shouldn't be too difficult. Refund whatever isk is left equally to all investors, then post the list of people who have the BPO's. I'm sure the investors would be happy to clean up the rest for you. If you really want the final word, just post your api key and let it be someone else's problem. Cheers, Brisco Smiley
Pink Kiwi	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:53:00 - [562] Originally by: Wylker I certainly didn't need anyone's isk, but I guess no one will really every believe that. That would have been easy to prove. All you had to do was pay back all your investors.
Josh Causto Gallente Fatalix Inc. THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.15 01:02:00 - [563] Originally by: Wylker possible but as of right now I have loaned out all the BPOs that I had to various parties and I'm not really sure when/if I'll get them back. so you loaned out bpos that your not sure if you will get back? Can i borrow some BPOs plz. Originally by: Speed Devil Originally by: ReePeR McAllem Everytime you fit anything other than a laser on our ships, babies die. and when ya fit lasers on your ships nothing dies
Ion Halo	Posted - 2008.01.15 03:36:00 - [564] Originally by: Wylker On that note, I'm sorry to anyone that lost isk in this deal, if I could have had a crystal ball I probably would have never started this thing. [/quote Heh, this is funny. Page 4 contained all of the warning signs investors should have noticed.
YouGotRipped Gallente Ewigkeit Galactic Research	Posted - 2008.01.23 06:20:00 - [565] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 23/01/2008 06:22:24 I've just stumbled upon a post in the sell orders forum. Wylker wants to buy a Chimera. Originally by: Wylker 1x Chimera please here Wasn't this guy supposed to have used the money to develop capital production and weren't carriers one of his priorities? Looks like he scammed from the beginning. hahah
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.23 09:37:00 - [566] Thats from an hour before your post, a few posts above this he declares it a scam, he scammed then bought that a week later or so. ~Nyron Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.

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