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Why Is BoB Losing? Part II: Survival of the Faithless

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James 315 Yet Another CAOD-Inspired 1-Man Alt Corp	Posted - 2007.07.26 15:52:00 - [1] If you have made it this far, you are a remarkable individual (or you have clicked the wrong link). Since you are remarkable, you will be rewarded with another remarkable post to read. Don't worry, this part will be much shorter than the first one. Why Is BoB Losing? Part II: Survival of the Faithless There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. -- Charles Darwin In our first exciting journey through the stuff I typed, we learned that BoB's formerly unbroken string of victories was due largely to the careful selection and timing of wars in which it engaged, and its heavy reliance upon allies or pets--not simply to the skill of its pilots. This is not inherently bad. One should give credit to good strategy. But it is an important point simply because the reality runs so contrary to the propaganda narrative of BoB in which they are only interested in "good fights". Why the smokescreen? As we saw in Part I, if BoB were invincible due to the skill of its pilots, and if BoB fought and won difficult wars in its past, it would be an entity capable of destroying any opponent, strong or weak. This prevents potential opponents from seeking a war with BoB, thus allowing BoB to strike at its opponents one at a time, like a ninja in an old movie. It also keeps BoB's many pets firmly in line, because they are certain of BoB's eventual victory. The illusion that BoB is only interested in good fights rather than easy wins also serves to disguise the true nature of the BoB pilots themselves. The character of the pilots--their attitudes, expectations, needs, personalities--are an important factor in war. This is because to kill an alliance it is crucial to kill the morale of its pilots. As observed by such noted CAOD posters as DigitalCommunist and James 315, Eve wars primarily revolve around the issue of morale, since pilots, corps and alliances can relocate rather than die. For example, despite the material damage inflicted upon Goonfleet in the summer of 2006 by BoB (and D2, and the rest), Goonfleet's morale was not destroyed. Nor was the LV Coalition able to destroy the morale of Red Alliance, despite reducing Red to one system. By contrast, alliances such as ASCN, LV and D2 were obliterated because their morale was crushed before they even lost all of their outposts. This is where we see the "glue" discussion referenced by my British-accented friend. Goons came to Eve to be Goons, and Red Alliance was an alliance of Russians. Despite the challenges they faced, they could still have these things, or at least could not have them more so in another alliance. By contrast, an alliance such as ASCN or LV existed because corps simply wanted carebear access to 0.0 materials. Obviously once the heavy assaults on them took effect, they could get access to 0.0 materials more easily in other alliances, even as pets. So they bolted. How do we determine BoB's bonding element, and what effect it has (and will have) on the Band of Brothers? We study its 'Evolution' by natural selection. Specifically, we study the means by which one selects BoB to join, or the means by which BoB selects people to admit. (Proceed to section 2, faithfully.) ****
Demented Fury Jita Garbage Collection LTD	Posted - 2007.07.26 15:52:00 - [2] o snap first!
James 315 Yet Another CAOD-Inspired 1-Man Alt Corp	Posted - 2007.07.26 15:52:00 - [3] But first, a word of common sense regarding the BoB today and the Evolution corp that existed in 2003. Obviously the initial "core" that formed BoB had a different recruiting strategy and reputation than today's BoB. Today's BoB has a whole history behind it (mostly manufactured by its propaganda machine) that influences people to join or not. The reason why the BoB of today is more important than the BoB seeds of 2003 is that the lion's share of BoB's membership is comprised of recent additions, relatively speaking. For example, from the fall of ASCN to the fall of LV, BoB's membership increased by about 60%. Much of that was due to the vast import of Shinra, but certainly not all. These represent pilots who chose to join BoB due to its image of steamrolling ASCN. If you had the data, you could go back further, looking at the increase in BoB membership from its "triumph" against GoonSwarm, the Querious war, etc. And those numbers would only tell part of the story, since they would not show you the quantity of old BoB pilots who left and were replaced by new recruits. It goes further still. When ATUK was incorporated into BoB as the DICE (Destructive Influence) corporation, it was largely seen as an attempt to join the one big remaining PvP powerhouse into BoB, creating an alliance with no real competitors remaining in Eve. But perhaps in part because of the motivation, DICE was not respected as "fully BoB". This is why even today, despite all of DICE's efforts to the contrary, DICE is sometimes referred to as "BoB Lite". (If DICE is "BoB Lite", does that make Shinra "BoB Free"?) In a less concentrated but more pervasive scale than the DICE assimilation, there is the BoB policy of drafting PvP'ers from their targets. This ensures that even those skilled PvP'ers who remain in Eve will not recollect in other alliances to pose BoB future risk. Often these defections occur even while the war between BoB and its target still rages. For an alliance that claims to want only "good fights", we can see how BoB goes to great lengths to avoid fighting anyone--even individual pilots!--who could offer a good fight. But what do these turncoat pilots get out of the deal? One answer might be "competent leadership, for a change." But it would be extremely dishonest to suggest that the only competent military leaders and FC's in all of Eve exist in BoB, even going back to 2005. What the traitor gains from joining BoB is that--assuming the invincibility of BoB is real, and they believe it is--they will never have to lose again. They choose not to fight the evil of BoB because they lack faith in the final victory. These are the people who join and now comprise the majority of BoB. A simple comparison works wonders here. When a pilots chose to join Goonfleet, they knew they were in for a fight. Goonfleet was, for a long time, filled with suicidal PvP pilots who expected to die, and perhaps even embraced death. They were surrounded by enemies and hounded by the Invincible BoB. Only someone who wants to fight and endure under such conditions would join Goonfleet. A similar description could be written for those who chose to join Red Alliance. Has anyone ever joined Red Alliance expecting a cakewalk? (Proceed to section 3, with a spring in your step.) ****
James 315 Yet Another CAOD-Inspired 1-Man Alt Corp	Posted - 2007.07.26 15:53:00 - [4] Now consider those who chose to join Invincible BoB. They expect BoB will never lose because it cannot lose. They expect to participate in turkeyshoots, because many of their recruits have experienced these turkeyshoots from the other side. They expect to pop Goon shuttles from 200km and swallow former pets' stations without resistance. They expect no real difficulties, no defeats, no fights in which they could realistically lose. They want to be surrounded by pilots with fifty million skillpoints and endless resources that no enemy could even begin to compromise. Has anyone joined BoB recently expecting a challenge? The only challenge a new BoB pilot expects is to maintain a kill/death ratio of 20:1 instead of 15:1. No, the original pilots of Evolution were not like this when they formed their corp. And there are still many of the original pilots around. But with each passing month, BoB becomes more and more watered-down by recruits who want and expect nothing but victories, and who dread anything less. Some will say that I am biased or that I am an alt. I am not an alt. It is true that I am in an "Alt Corp". Why can't a main be in an alt corp? Don't you know alts that are in regular corps? Besides, I am not simply a member of YACAODI1MAC, I am its founder and CEO. Who better to lead an alt corp than a main? Alts are always controlled by mains; that is the way of things. As for my bias, I do not accept that I am biased. But if you believe I am, consider what BoB members say themselves. Far from the prying eyes of the unified front propaganda machine, BoB members will tell you (the older the better) that they are dissatisfied by the direction BoB has gone, particularly with the recruitment of so many players who do not meet their standards. They, too, are concerned by the number of people who have joined BoB so they can ride its coattails and be Omnipotence Itself. Ask them whether they think it was wonderful to have so many ex-Shinra join. Shinra's heroic defense of LV down to the last system is a great model for how BoB's nerve holds today. The "unified front" propaganda policy also creates a situation where BoB pilots censor themselves, even on an internal BoB communication line. (This has become more severe now that BoB's massive recruitment has opened itself to infiltration by spies; admitting a defeat even to themselves would be a morale boost to the enemy.) The original leadership of BoB, still largely present from the old days (aside from notable departures like Blacklight's), does not understand how much their alliance has changed. BoB pilots are simultaneously frustrated by their leadership's failures (and this goes both ways) and yet awed and frightened into silence. Members of many alliances neglect to post their losses on killboards for fear of how they will be seen by the enemy, but BoB pilots avoid loss-posting, despite official mandates to post, because they are afraid of how their own leaders will see them. The killboard issue is outside the scope of this thread, but the lack of communication among BoB is worthy of a few more words. (Proceed to section 4. Just proceed.) ****
James 315 Yet Another CAOD-Inspired 1-Man Alt Corp	Posted - 2007.07.26 15:53:00 - [5] I usually try to keep my personal life and my "Eve life" separate, although the postmodernists among us will say that this is impossible. But in this instance, I think an example from my own life about the value of communication will be helpful. In my YACAODI1MAC report on the contract against Black Eclipse Corp, because it was relevant, I casually alluded to the fact that I have a girlfriend. She doesn't play Eve, probably fearing that whatever she accomplishes in Eve would be overshadowed by me, and I respect that. After I get home from work, I usually spend a relatively short time in Eve-related activities, such as changing skills or reading CAOD. And while I take my responsibilities in Eve seriously, I don't do this because of the demand; I do it because it is a pleasure for me and relieves stress. Now I recall that on one of the first days back from work, after a particularly nasty commute, I came home and my girlfriend immediately wanted to bring up some concerns about some chores that I needed to do. I recall being irritated by this, even though the chores were necessary. I then realized that because of the stress of my job and the commute, I needed to unwind for a bit, recharge my batteries, and then I would be good to go. But from my girlfriend's perspective, I reasoned, she had been thinking about this stuff all day and immediately wanted to talk to me about it when she saw me. So I honestly communicated with her my need to decompress immediately after arriving home, and that she would help us both by remaining in suspense for awhile longer after I returned. Some couples go through an entire lifetime without making these realizations and communications, and fight frequently because of them. BoB is in danger of this happening to them also. Another example of communication. My girlfriend and I had made plans to attend a function. While I wanted to go, or at least was not very much opposed to it, I lost track of time while spamming F5 on the Scrapheap Challenge thread tracking POS counts in 9-9. This was an isolated incident, but it sparked what became a fairly heated debate regarding the comparative importance of Eve and our relationship. The discussion was so animated that I lost nearly an hour of training time on a skill I was about to change. (Since I joined Eve I have lost significant portions of training time on about four occasions at most.) I communicated that my girlfriend's arguments suffered from a number of fundamental flaws. First, the question of whether she or Eve is more important is irrelevant, since the two are not in conflict. Second, the question assumes an all-or-nothing approach that also ignores decreasing marginal utility. For example, on an absolute scale, food is more important than music, but would we force all the world's musicians to become farmers? Of course not. Likewise, terminating James 315 to spend more time with my girlfriend would be suboptimal. Third, and perhaps most importantly, it was a question of timing, not of priorities. She will be there the next day, but those BoB POSes might not be. (As it turned out, the BoB POSes did get popped.) (Proceed to section 5, with growing concern for the length of the post.) ****
UGWidowmaker Caldari The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.07.26 15:54:00 - [6] second in an epic thread! omfg.... the wall of letters... OMFG I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
James 315 Yet Another CAOD-Inspired 1-Man Alt Corp	Posted - 2007.07.26 15:54:00 - [7] Needless to say, I came out the winner in that argument. But because I understood the importance of communication, I realized the very fact that we were even having an argument based on something with so many logical faults was telling in and of itself. So I offered up an explanation (not a monologue, really, there was some give-and-take) as to the importance of 9-9. This was not merely another POS war or just another station system. 9-9 was pivotal both to Tenerifis and to the entire region of Omist. Not to mention the fact that BoB and the RSF were having a true test of wills/force over that station and it could turn out to be a bellwether for the state of the entire war. When the Goons and Reds began their logistical efforts there, it was a true "so much owed by so many to so few" moment. Had my girlfriend remained unaware of this, she may not have fully understood the importance of the BoB POS update. The mechanics of POS warfare are a bit obscure, but I think my lecture was accessible to a non-Eve player such as she. One final word on communication, since I don't want this to turn into another long post. My girlfriend has owned a few cats in her life, and at the moment she has two. One of these cats, and all the others she has ever owned, have normal cat names like "Garfield", "Whiskers", etc. But for some reason she named one of the cats the name of a German dictator whose name won't pass the profanity filter on our fine forum. Why she named him that, I do not know. There is nothing H-like about this cat. Nor does she have a particularly active interest in history. And like most good-looking women, she does not tell a lot of jokes. (I am tired of all entertainment media presenting "love interests" as beautiful, smart and funny, even when these characters haven't made any witty remarks. My girlfriend has a fine sense of humor but is not a comedic genius.) So whenever I see this H-cat, I wonder what the deal is, and I don't find it particularly amusing to reference people like the cat's namesake. But rather than allow that to bother me, I keep in mind that because my girlfriend and I have developed such good communication, if I ever choose to bring it up, everything will be made clear. BoB's leadership will really have to turn things around if they want to be able to say the same. In case it wasn't obvious enough, there is real danger in having pilots whose sole purpose and motivation is to win every time. Since BoB is not invincible, it must inevitably run into an opposing force that is superior. Then BoB will be tested in an entirely new way: can it endure defeat and come out stronger? BoB made a 100% effort to defend 9-9, and it failed. Then BoB made a 100% effort to attack 9-9, and it failed even more completely. Simply put, RSF is stronger than BoB and better at POS wars. Can continual, month-to-month defeats be withstood by victory-dependent BoB pilots, multitudes of them newly-added hangers-on who had no part in accomplishments of the past? That sounds like the beginning of another topic. End of Part II So I failed miserably in making Part II shorter than Part I. But Part III won't be as long, I promise. If Part I was the ghost of BoB's past and Part II the ghost of BoB's present, then Part III will be the ghost of BoB Yet to Come. Stay tuned, and keep on smilin'. - 315 ----------------------------------------------- The views expressed in my posts are my own. They do not necessarily reflect the views of my corporation.
Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC	Posted - 2007.07.26 15:56:00 - [8] Sooommmeeeooonneee didn't read my Guiiiide..... "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.." Trading 101
Strategos Banned Society	Posted - 2007.07.26 15:56:00 - [9] Another interesting read. ---Sig--- Sig removed, not appropriate for the forum. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -Pirlouit
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:01:00 - [10] Much shorter indeed... /me resume reading. ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.

WraithFire Cassandra's Light Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:02:00 - [11] Nice thread. --------------------- Carebears? Where?
Flow Befort GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:02:00 - [12] we have uhoh, over
FishtheMoose Counterglow Kancho Unlimited	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:03:00 - [13] Originally by: James 315 since I don't want this to turn into another long post.
Indomitus Rex Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:04:00 - [14] James 3:15 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright ¬ 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society [NIV at IBS] [International Bible Society] [NIV at Zondervan] [Zondervan] 15Such "wisdom" does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. Maybe a warning? Devil or not, yet another wonderful read. Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug
NeoTech Minmatar DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:05:00 - [15] Good read yet again. fofofo
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:05:00 - [16] Originally by: James 315 This is where we see the "glue" discussion referenced by my British-accented friend. Goons came to Eve to be Goons, and Red Alliance was an alliance of Russians. Despite the challenges they faced, they could still have these things, or at least could not have them more so in another alliance. By contrast, an alliance such as ASCN or LV existed because corps simply wanted carebear access to 0.0 materials. Obviously once the heavy assaults on them took effect, they could get access to 0.0 materials more easily in other alliances, even as pets. So they bolted. This part sounds pretty spot on if you ask me. --- Grismar.net
TrevorReznik Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:06:00 - [17] You forgot something: BoB recruits from its pet alliances as well. Many of their recent members came from such illustrious alliances as Dark Rising and Southern Connection. While this arguably makes BoB stronger through sheer numbers, it serves to further weaken their pet alliances, or destroys them.
Zap powie Minmatar The Accursed	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:07:00 - [18] 1st page woot!!
Rikeka Amarr Eye of God X-PACT	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:08:00 - [19] [Quote]As observed by such noted CAOD posters as DigitalCommunist and James 315, Eve wars primarily revolve around the issue of morale, since pilots, corps and alliances can relocate rather than die. SNORT! Quote: The discussion was so animated that I lost nearly an hour of training time on a skill I was about to change I admit I may have laughed here a bit. +-+-+-+-+ "I am matter... I am anti-matter... I can see your past... I can see your future... I consume time... And I will consume you!" -Culex (SMRPG)
Morris Falter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:08:00 - [20] Another installment!

Jogyn KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:09:00 - [21] Interesting indeed. You should get a mod to delete those spamm posts who fks up the flow though ;)
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:12:00 - [22] THEY ARE NOT DEAD James, you suck at yelling "victory" now. It has simply no sense at all. -=-=-
Pradege D'Hallur Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:12:00 - [23] WoW, I can't believe i read all that. Where is my gun............. When we die God's job is to judge us..........My job is to arrange that meeting
scififreak Minmatar Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:15:00 - [24] Whoop de freaking doo. I know what i'm doing for the next hour...reading this!
Zenst Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:19:00 - [25] Originally by: James 315 Needless to say, I came out the winner in that argument. But because I understood the importance of communication, O'RLY - must explain the short concise points . In summary I disagree with everything you said. Awaiting paper-back edition now :).
Moon Kitten GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:21:00 - [26] Edited by: Moon Kitten on 26/07/2007 16:25:05 Edited by: Moon Kitten on 26/07/2007 16:23:51 Have you considered on making this into a musical? Why Is BoB Losing?: The Musical I live under a bridge
BlackHorizon Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:21:00 - [27] James 315, you are correct about the nature of alliances and moral. It can be said more succinctly with a rhetorical question: does an alliance PvP for carebearing or carebear for PvP?
DeTox MinRohim Madhatters Inc. M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:23:00 - [28] Originally by: Zenst O'RLY Scary... ------ This sig space is Read-only ! omgalink - Online Skillsheet
EinaruS Rage Academy oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:25:00 - [29] a very interesting read, seemingly pretty accurate.. just one thing that bothers me in general is that people call DICE, BoB lite.. seeing as ATUK was considered a member of the BoB informal alliance long before the formal BoB alliance was created. but i agree with what you said about them. - A finger...especially the middle one, is worth more than any amount of isk
Donny Baker Minmatar Quantum Industries	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:28:00 - [30] I missed the connection between your girlfriend with whom you live (harlot) and BoB. You lost training time, and are mad... therefore, BoB is going to die?

Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:28:00 - [31] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 26/07/2007 16:28:56 Originally by: Zenst O'RLY I prefer this one. -=-=-
OozoO Caldari Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:34:00 - [32] Quote: Third, and perhaps most importantly, it was a question of timing, not of priorities. She will be there the next day, but those BoB POSes might not be. epic! Do not discuss moderator actions or troll in your sig. -Kaemonn Email if you understand and your sig will be unlocked.([email protected])
Khavi Vetali Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:35:00 - [33] I think the only thing epic about these posts is the amount of collective time they inevitably waste Quote: Tyger! Tyger! burning bright; In the forests of the night, What immortal hand or eye; Could frame thy fearful symmetry?
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:37:00 - [34] Looks like a long-winded version of a post I made on SHC months ago. Bob recruit people who want to be on the winning team because its easy. Look for these people to switch sides in the fight when morale gets low, because that's what they've all done in the past.
Dirtball Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:38:00 - [35] needs some kind of reference to how the perceived best corporation should be immune to corp theft cause theif would not have a better alternative available to him post theft.
Ki An Gallente KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:48:00 - [36] Another well written (series of) post(s), but you really shot yourself in the foot there by claiming unbias. If you're an alt or not I cannot tell (however likely it seems, given that most people don't have a main in a corp who does nothing by propaganda stunts), but you are really dripping in bias, and to claim otherwise is genuinely dishonest. /Ki Remember kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Liu Kaskakka PAK	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:49:00 - [37] A good read. Whether it's true or not. ^_^ It's true that every time bob takes a less skilled or less motivated player amongst them, the average skill level and motivation of bob drops (no such thing as "total skill level" or "total motivation" is there? :p). However, if the alternative option is to stay elitistic and not take new members, they will eventually die out when people get bored of eve. I still think that they're better than ragoon though ;> King Liu is RIGHT!!
Itzena Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:55:00 - [38] Obligatory "HIS GIRLFRIEND" post. -- Nothing will improve the way things currently are.
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:58:00 - [39] Good post. Shoulda left out your girlfriend, she sounds irritating.
Vosill Collector of Souls	Posted - 2007.07.26 16:58:00 - [40] Originally by: Flow Befort we have uhoh, over Copy Uh-oh. Chopper Dave, we have uh-oh over

Alice Cholmondeley	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:00:00 - [41] Eve is a game. Deal with your issues and move on.
Endeva Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:06:00 - [42] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn ... The problem of Bob is they never experience a figth vs full pvp alliances. so you want to say here that all those fights before vs iron/g d2 ermm dont know all the names but there are lots of other good pvp allaince. i liked g:P before and their fleet of tempests.p - that they are all carebers and now we met truly PVP oriented allince know as TCF
Akihoshi Gallente Mining and Research Industrial Organisation	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:06:00 - [43] Interesting Read so far James. However the Real life analogies could have been cut down to one or two instead of the thirty that you put in there about communication. However there are some Valid points to both part I and part II and has made for an interesting read. I just hope my eyes are not bleeding after part III
Obron Mettlo Minmatar Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:07:00 - [44] Originally by: Prez21 Isnt how LV and ASCN were described the exact same as what your alliance currently is? Bob arnt losing they win most battles and kill alot more ships than there enemies, i will agree that they arnt doing aswel as before, but after seeing all the garbage posts 6 months back about how bob would be dead within a month they dont seem to be doing to bad do they? I have to disagree with you there. You're basing your judgments solely on someone's killboard, and that rarely, if ever, tells the whole story, especially when most killboards are horribly inaccurate. LV made the same conclusion you did - they killed more battleships and more overall ships than RSF, but this arguement was completely voided when their membership couldn't even afford to fly interceptors anymore. Instead of "being stuck" flying T1 cruisers, they just quit and went elsewhere. I don't think this has happened to BoB yet, but their fleets are definitely changing composition. Quote: The stations they have lost are stations that they already took of goons and friends so its not like its a major loss to them. When i see Bob losing more BS than they kill and start losing stations closer to home than i,ll take these post alittle more serious, until then it doesnt mean a thing. This would be true if it were another alliance - GS, RA, TCF, KOS, even ISS - because those alliances had experienced losing most or all of their stations, and they had come back. I can't remember the last time BoB lost a station that was firmly in their control, let alone the last time they failed to sucessfully complete a campaign (conquering Tenerifis). The closest thing in recent memory might be TPAR, but that offensive was pushed back within a week. -----------------
Raevenor GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:08:00 - [45] Originally by: Endeva so you want to say here that all those fights before vs iron/g d2 ermm dont know all the names but there are lots of other good pvp allaince. i liked g:P before and their fleet of tempests.p - that they are all carebers and now we met truly PVP oriented allince know as TCF What?
Tobruk Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:08:00 - [46] James, Have you sent copies of these to Prof. Dawkins? he might find some entertainment value in his book titles and prose style being used in an online game. At any rate good post: What happens when an alliance full of people who demand constant victory taste defeat? hopefully your answer will come in part 3. ---------------------------------------------- Sig removed. Elmo Pug removed my sig because he hates me
Barwinius Ars ex Discordia	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:11:00 - [47] Your poor GF...
Astarte Nosferatu We Know Derek Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:12:00 - [48] One of the best series in months on CAOD. There's surprisingly much truth in the James 315 posts threads. Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:13:00 - [49] Highly interesting and entertaining read. Not sure if its all true, but well-wrought arguments brought in an entertaining read always make for good reading. ------------------------------------------------ Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
ProphetGuru Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:14:00 - [50] Interesting, although your first post was a little better. You raise many points, but a great many of your opinions appear to be based on assumptions based on public relations and or revisionist history. You also attribute things to bob that you could switch "BOB" for any other alliance name and their would be a chorus of "you hit that nail on the head" posts from the uninspired. Many of the things you are talking about apply to alliances in general. Arguments made on assumptions, no matter how well written, will never hold up. Quote: As we saw in Part I, if BoB were invincible due to the skill of its pilots, and if BoB fought and won difficult wars in its past, it would be an entity capable of destroying any opponent, strong or weak. We have destroyed strong and weak opponents over the years, and it would be fair to say that it is far easier to look at someone we destroyed in the past and say they must have been weak and ripe for the taking, rather then give us any credit. That's ok.... we are quite used to that. It doesn't make that opinion correct. Lastly, your mention of Evolution and it's membership in the early years of Eve seems pointless. I don't think you have 1/100th of the knowledge you need to discuss that group of pilots motivations and intentions 3+ years ago, and I feel pretty confident saying that cuz I was there... GG, only took yas 6 months

Beyond Horizon Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:15:00 - [51] James 315, are you James The Angry Nintendo Nerd? - BH
Beyond Horizon Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:19:00 - [52] Originally by: TWD Originally by: James 315 ... As observed by such noted CAOD posters as DigitalCommunist and James 315 ... You're not. All I see is a bitter ex-ASCN pilot trying to spin history to make the disbanding of the alliance he was part of less painful. YOU LOSE :( - BH
Torshin Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:23:00 - [53] I believe a member of Pandemic mentioned that he can not remember the last time that BOB lost a station that was firmly in their control. During the Seige of Feyth I believe that both AZN and VNGJ fell for a period of time. Also there is the issue of IAC in Querious taking the H74 station i think. But that one was more of a sov issue. ------------------------------------------- Backdoor Bandit - Unofficial leader of the new 'Post with your main or STFU' campaign. I'm Shinra and I'm the champion of Eve.
Elmer Phud Black Eclipse Corp	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:25:00 - [54] James you lost all credibility with that post claiming BL resigned from BNC due to Shrike's titan loss. Thats where you went from 'amusing troll' to just 'troll'. Really, you must be a sad sad little man to spend so much time writing your own version of EvE history. Its pathetic yet fascinating at the same time.
Beyond Horizon Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:27:00 - [55] Edited by: Beyond Horizon on 26/07/2007 17:28:22 Originally by: Elmer Phud James you lost all credibility with that post claiming BL resigned from BNC due to Shrike's titan loss. Thats where you went from 'amusing troll' to just 'troll'. Really, you must be a sad sad little man to spend so much time writing your own version of EvE history. Its pathetic yet fascinating at the same time. Are you just making that up or is there a "voice" telling you that? EDIT: i'm talking about the part where you claim that James is in fact telling that BL left because of Shrike's titan loss - BH
LeviUK hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:27:00 - [56] INteresting reading until the girlfriend bit. Then I lost interest completely Perhaps including pics of your gf would keep the more lecherous of us entertained.
Beyond Horizon Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:30:00 - [57] Originally by: LeviUK Perhaps including pics of your gf would keep the more lecherous of us entertained. signed :D James, you told she was good-looking... PROOF OR STFU - BH
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:31:00 - [58] Originally by: Prez21 Bob arnt losing they win most battles and kill alot more ships than there enemies, i will agree that they arnt doing aswel as before, but after seeing all the garbage posts 6 months back about how bob would be dead within a month they dont seem to be doing to bad do they? The stations they have lost are stations that they already took of goons and friends so its not like its a major loss to them. When i see Bob losing more BS than they kill and start losing stations closer to home than i,ll take these post alittle more serious, until then it doesnt mean a thing. This is not a flame; however, I truly believe that only people who were involved in the southern front of the war can understand just how broken Titans were before Rev II and how multiple Titans completely changed fleet warfare. Even BoB leadership admitted that they were broken pre-nerf. Examine the territory that BoB gained in the south (all of it pre-nerf). 9-9, XGH, and Omist -- which was abandoned by GS, just as it was abandoned by LV; it is a difficult area to defend from attack from Tenerifis / Detorid once you lose control of 9-9, due to moon count and choke points. Omist was thus won by default once BoB captured 9-9. They captured 9-9 by spamming POS (again, huge moon count); thanks to Titans, both subcapital fleets and fighter drones became strategically worthless -- with 4 Titans, BoB could fire a DD every 15 minutes, or fire multiple DDs at once to wipe out even the heaviest tanked battleship (which would ultimately be so heavily gimped by fitting that tank that it would be rendered worthless anyway). Further, they were able to deploy their own subcapitals and fighters at will. Once solidifying their hold on 9-9, the same tactic was used to take XGH. Just like no one expects an opposing fleet to hold their fire if the opposing fleet has clearly crashed or desynced, no one can blame BoB for taking full advantage of their wealth to spam POS and Titan invulnerability to turn the southern battles into Capital Ships Online, removing subcapitals from any relevance. Post-nerf, BoB has lost XGH and 9-9. 2 stations in Omist have already been taken by TCF and I believe a third is either taken by UNL or will be within days, once sov kicks in. That leaves 2 stations that BoB has taken from RSF from the beginning of the war in the south, D2EZ and 66-, both of which are being heavily fought over right now. 9-9 and XGH in particular were taken both by sieging BoB POSes and counter-spamming larges. Any kind of POS battle report would show that BoB has been nearly unable to defend their own POSes when they come out of reinforced, while also being unable to take out RSF POSes when they come out of reinforced. This same kind of warfare is going on in D2EZ and 66-. This is not to say that BoB is dead, nor that anyone really expects them to failure cascade back to Delve within the next week. Since the leveling of the battlefield, BoB has continued to lose ground. They have won particular battles, and almost always have a better kill:death ratio. However, kill:death ratio is meaningless unless it weakens your enemy's morale or outpaces their logistics, production, or wealth, which it has yet to do. To conclude: BoB has not lost yet. But they are losing, at the moment. That does not exclude the possibility that they will regroup or call in more allies and stall the push into Omist; however, the only way to analyze the current situation and come to any other conclusion than "BoB is losing" is by looking purely at kill:death ratio, which is utterly meaningless. Also: guys guys MY GIRLFRIEND
Anope High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:33:00 - [59] woooo part II go james!
Ex0101 Gallente Hell's Horsemen	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:34:00 - [60] Not agreeing or disagreeing with anything said, but i am enjoying reading these threads very much, look forward to the next installment :) --

Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:35:00 - [61] Originally by: Angelus Damelon Originally by: Prez21 Bob arnt losing they win most battles and kill alot more ships than there enemies, i will agree that they arnt doing aswel as before, but after seeing all the garbage posts 6 months back about how bob would be dead within a month they dont seem to be doing to bad do they? The stations they have lost are stations that they already took of goons and friends so its not like its a major loss to them. When i see Bob losing more BS than they kill and start losing stations closer to home than i,ll take these post alittle more serious, until then it doesnt mean a thing. This is not a flame; however, I truly believe that only people who were involved in the southern front of the war can understand just how broken Titans were before Rev II and how multiple Titans completely changed fleet warfare. Even BoB leadership admitted that they were broken pre-nerf. Examine the territory that BoB gained in the south (all of it pre-nerf). 9-9, XGH, and Omist -- which was abandoned by GS, just as it was abandoned by LV; it is a difficult area to defend from attack from Tenerifis / Detorid once you lose control of 9-9, due to moon count and choke points. Omist was thus won by default once BoB captured 9-9. They captured 9-9 by spamming POS (again, huge moon count); thanks to Titans, both subcapital fleets and fighter drones became strategically worthless -- with 4 Titans, BoB could fire a DD every 15 minutes, or fire multiple DDs at once to wipe out even the heaviest tanked battleship (which would ultimately be so heavily gimped by fitting that tank that it would be rendered worthless anyway). Further, they were able to deploy their own subcapitals and fighters at will. Once solidifying their hold on 9-9, the same tactic was used to take XGH. Just like no one expects an opposing fleet to hold their fire if the opposing fleet has clearly crashed or desynced, no one can blame BoB for taking full advantage of their wealth to spam POS and Titan invulnerability to turn the southern battles into Capital Ships Online, removing subcapitals from any relevance. Post-nerf, BoB has lost XGH and 9-9. 2 stations in Omist have already been taken by TCF and I believe a third is either taken by UNL or will be within days, once sov kicks in. That leaves 2 stations that BoB has taken from RSF from the beginning of the war in the south, D2EZ and 66-, both of which are being heavily fought over right now. 9-9 and XGH in particular were taken both by sieging BoB POSes and counter-spamming larges. Any kind of POS battle report would show that BoB has been nearly unable to defend their own POSes when they come out of reinforced, while also being unable to take out RSF POSes when they come out of reinforced. This same kind of warfare is going on in D2EZ and 66-. This is not to say that BoB is dead, nor that anyone really expects them to failure cascade back to Delve within the next week. Since the leveling of the battlefield, BoB has continued to lose ground. They have won particular battles, and almost always have a better kill:death ratio. However, kill:death ratio is meaningless unless it weakens your enemy's morale or outpaces their logistics, production, or wealth, which it has yet to do. To conclude: BoB has not lost yet. But they are losing, at the moment. That does not exclude the possibility that they will regroup or call in more allies and stall the push into Omist; however, the only way to analyze the current situation and come to any other conclusion than "BoB is losing" is by looking purely at kill:death ratio, which is utterly meaningless. Also: guys guys MY GIRLFRIEND concise post of the year award. --- truth about EVE: Quote: "Guns are fine, boost players" Quote: "Players are fine, boost guns"
Nikita Jones Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:37:00 - [62] I wouldn't be surprised if your girlfriend is actually a BOB spy. Be careful what you tell her, seems strange her being around while you checked on BOB POS's. Probably a plant.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:38:00 - [63] Originally by: Endeva Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn ... The problem of Bob is they never experience a figth vs full pvp alliances. so you want to say here that all those fights before vs iron/g d2 ermm dont know all the names but there are lots of other good pvp allaince. i liked g:P before and their fleet of tempests.p - that they are all carebers and now we met truly PVP oriented allince know as TCF TBH you got your ass handed to you on a couple of occasions by mixed IRON-led fleets. JU-OWQ and H74 come to mind.
Distrans The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:39:00 - [64] wrath supermodels kickboxing arrogance bahahaa áááááááááá
Astarte Nosferatu We Know Derek Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:39:00 - [65] Originally by: Zell Edited by: Zell on 26/07/2007 17:16:07 Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu One of the best series in months on CAOD. There's surprisingly not much truth in the James 315 posts threads. fixed Ooh, an alt fixed my post. I feel all special inside. Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
Astarte Nosferatu We Know Derek Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:41:00 - [66] Originally by: NATMav Originally by: Endeva Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn ... The problem of Bob is they never experience a figth vs full pvp alliances. so you want to say here that all those fights before vs iron/g d2 ermm dont know all the names but there are lots of other good pvp allaince. i liked g:P before and their fleet of tempests.p - that they are all carebers and now we met truly PVP oriented allince know as TCF TBH you got your ass handed to you on a couple of occasions by mixed IRON-led fleets. JU-OWQ and H74 come to mind. Down in Querious, BoB lost quite a lot of fleet fights against IRON-led fleets. Unless off course they had 1-2 Titans, several Motherships and dozens of Carriers/Dreadnaught as 'support'. Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:42:00 - [67] What is now necessary is for the aura of invincibility to be broken. When Bob pilots wake up from the Dream they have been living - when doubt creeps into their minds - that is when their defeat begins. I feel the attempt to keep that doubt away is the main goal of Bob at the moment. As witness, I point to how any critique of Bob is immeatiately flamed with one-lines from Pets and Alts. This is their propoganda machine attempting to pull the rug back over the ugly thing that was unearthed. Look at James' first analysis for examples of that behavior. I predict that when Bob does eventually fall, it will not be by the inability of Bob pilots to field quality ships or due to significant strategic losses. It will be a sudden event, where all the rats suddenly flee the sinking ship. As pointed out before, many of their players have switched sides before and therefore why not do it again? What I expect (and admittedly via my own propaganda attempt to encourage) is the Pet morale to break first. I was encouraged with the expulsion of Xelas, not because of any weaking of Bob by losing Xelas but rather because I hoped other Pets would look twice at their Master and wonder when the rolled-up newspaper would be swung in their direction. Fix's current prediciment may mean that MC comes to save them. I hope Fix sees that it is not Bob who is saving them, but another entity, and realize that Bob has no right to Master Fix. When those events start, it will be interesting to see how many of Bob pilots will fight to the death now that it will mean their death instead of someone elses.
Pesadel0 Ordem dos Templarios Pax Atlantis	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:44:00 - [68] Originally by: Beyond Horizon Edited by: Beyond Horizon on 26/07/2007 17:28:22 Originally by: Elmer Phud James you lost all credibility with that post claiming BL resigned from BNC due to Shrike's titan loss. Thats where you went from 'amusing troll' to just 'troll'. Really, you must be a sad sad little man to spend so much time writing your own version of EvE history. Its pathetic yet fascinating at the same time. Are you just making that up or is there a "voice" telling you that? EDIT: i'm talking about the part where you claim that James is in fact telling that BL left because of Shrike's titan loss Horizon SHC. I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP.
Tessa Vaako Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:44:00 - [69] Excellent post! Would read again! -- In Concordia, Vires. Ex Discordia, Gloria.
Kuentai Moloko.	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:46:00 - [70] Nice post. "The good man has few enemies, but the ruthless... None."

NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:46:00 - [71] Combat: James 315 strikes you perfectly, wrecking for self-doubt.
Liu Kaskakka PAK	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:47:00 - [72] Originally by: Nikita Jones I wouldn't be surprised if your girlfriend is actually a BOB spy. Be careful what you tell her, seems strange her being around while you checked on BOB POS's. Probably a plant. ^_^ King Liu is RIGHT!!
Vladimir Titov Minmatar Knights of the Minmatar Republic	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:51:00 - [73] Edited by: Vladimir Titov on 26/07/2007 17:51:18 I got in trouble last time I posted with my main (in the GBC) so this time this is self-admittedly an alt. I wanted to address what you said about how PvP'ers are recruited from among BoB's targets. You really hit on a point I often spent a long time thinking about. But I don't agree with regards to saying they are riding cotails of others. The thing is, when you are a vet who has been playing EvE since launch, you really have very few options. I spent most of my 4+ years in EvE fighting against Evolution or its allies and interests. First it was FA/SA, then ATUK, then ATUK's pets and the 5 and so on. So for me after so many battles there is no aura of invincibility or feeling that fighting them is futile. They are just people, and when someone like me is always thinking several steps ahead in a fight, more often than not I was able to not let them get the best of me. It takes a lot of control, patience and determination to fight these people and to know when to strike. I cannot emphasis patience enough. Whenever it was a war of wills, my will was something that could never be broken. If ATUK did not want to show its hand and was waiting for my fleet to camp the gate so they could dictate the fight, I would simply keep my fleet in an SS and deny them that pleasure, for as long as it took. The way I feel about BoB is very clear, but I also came to a realization that this was a game, and I was tired constantly offering guidance to people with less experience than me or did not approach EvE with the same competitive edge as me. Its impossible to win a battle of wills when the people you are with break down easy. It wears you down. Yet at the same time I didn't want to join BoB because it is those who go against BoB that stand out in EvE. For better or worse, they are the people that are remembered. But like I said, your options are limited. I suppose if I could speak russian I would have joined RA, but I don't. Instead I created this alt with this name to honor their achievements in EvE. Joining BoB or the GBC is not about taking the easy road or winning all the time. Its about joining people who have the same hunger as you, who will analyze a fight after its done instead of saying "oh well its just a game and that was fun". You want people who will be there in battleships after they lose their dreads, in cruisers after they lose their battleships...and so on. Its not only about pvp though. You want to be able to go to bed at night and not worry about a POS's fuel level. The worst feeling possible is feeling when the weight of the world is on your shoulders, that if you don't log in certain things wont get done. Finally you want to fly with people that don't know the meaning of impossible. If item xyz needs to be in system abc in the next day, they will treat the same way you do: find a way to get it done. And to top it all, I wanted leadership that is going to make the best use of my peristence and tenacity, not leadership that will demand 1/5th of what I can really do. And so the choices become really slim, and before I knew it, I found myself in a situation I didn't think I would. I am not riding their cotails, they are riding mine.
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:51:00 - [74] Edited by: Butter Dog on 26/07/2007 17:52:07 Well... all I can say is.... what-evar I've been making these points about BoB for ages, I can't be arsed anymore. What you've said is fairly accurate but I can't help thinking 'so what'. The fact is, I quite like BoB these days, and I absolutely hate the Goons. Yes, BoB are manipulative, but they are still very good at what they do, and I think some people are in danger of actually starting to underestimate them, which would be rather silly. We all know that when the dust settles, BoB + Friends will win. An endless string of victories followed by one minor defeat (caused by choosing not to deploy capitals in current desynch-induced hell) does not change anything. Goons et al are purely delusional if they think a single hiccup is the symptom of an underlying terminal illness. The Goons won't die, but they will lose the war. And you can quote me on that at some later point. I'm always right ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Endeva Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:52:00 - [75] Edited by: Endeva on 26/07/2007 17:54:28 Edited by: Endeva on 26/07/2007 17:53:32 Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu Originally by: NATMav Originally by: Endeva Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn ... The problem of Bob is they never experience a figth vs full pvp alliances. so you want to say here that all those fights before vs iron/g d2 ermm dont know all the names but there are lots of other good pvp allaince. i liked g:P before and their fleet of tempests.p - that they are all carebers and now we met truly PVP oriented allince know as TCF TBH you got your ass handed to you on a couple of occasions by mixed IRON-led fleets. JU-OWQ and H74 come to mind. Down in Querious, BoB lost quite a lot of fleet fights against IRON-led fleets. Unless off course they had 1-2 Titans, several Motherships and dozens of Carriers/Dreadnaught as 'support'. you and NATMav didnt get me or i type wrong.sorry not native english speaker. let me clear you guy from tcf said we never fought trully oriented pvp force. thats why i asked him were you carebers? i think no. but someone think yes. got it? edit:type and bah nvm
Torshin Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:55:00 - [76] Originally by: Beyond Horizon Edited by: Beyond Horizon on 26/07/2007 17:28:22 Originally by: Elmer Phud James you lost all credibility with that post claiming BL resigned from BNC due to Shrike's titan loss. Thats where you went from 'amusing troll' to just 'troll'. Really, you must be a sad sad little man to spend so much time writing your own version of EvE history. Its pathetic yet fascinating at the same time. Are you just making that up or is there a "voice" telling you that? EDIT: i'm talking about the part where you claim that James is in fact telling that BL left because of Shrike's titan loss no james did state this earlier, if you want ill find the quote ------------------------------------------- Backdoor Bandit - Unofficial leader of the new 'Post with your main or STFU' campaign. I'm Shinra and I'm the champion of Eve.
Gerog Gallente Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:55:00 - [77] Nice Read. Passed some time at work. Should of left the g/f out of it. Those that came before us are our bridge into history, but we must move forward and never forget the lessons of the past.
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:55:00 - [78] Also the whole title of your thread makes a false assumption: 'why are BoB losing?' They're not losing. Thats the problem with your whole stance. In a long war you expect offensive + counteroffensive. Thats happening. But no-one is yet victorious. Which means, by default, that no-one is losing. In fact, by most valid measures, BoB are winning very convincingly. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Unholy Preacher Trade Consortium	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:57:00 - [79] Good writing as always, tho you did go into your girlfriend issues a bit too much to prove your point on communication
Dominixa Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:59:00 - [80] "Discourtesy does not spring merely from one bad quality, but from several--from foolish vanity, from ignorance of what is due to others, from indolence, from stupidity, from distraction of thought, from contempt of others, from jealousy." Sir, I believe you posses the latter. Originally by: Princess Jodi What is now necessary is for the aura of invincibility to be broken. When Bob pilots wake up from the Dream they have been living - when doubt creeps into their minds - that is when their defeat begins. I feel the attempt to keep that doubt away is the main goal of Bob at the moment. As witness, I point to how any critique of Bob is immeatiately flamed with one-lines from Pets and Alts. This is their propoganda machine attempting to pull the rug back over the ugly thing that was unearthed. Look at James' first analysis for examples of that behavior. I predict that when Bob does eventually fall, it will not be by the inability of Bob pilots to field quality ships or due to significant strategic losses. It will be a sudden event, where all the rats suddenly flee the sinking ship. As pointed out before, many of their players have switched sides before and therefore why not do it again? What I expect (and admittedly via my own propaganda attempt to encourage) is the Pet morale to break first. I was encouraged with the expulsion of Xelas, not because of any weaking of Bob by losing Xelas but rather because I hoped other Pets would look twice at their Master and wonder when the rolled-up newspaper would be swung in their direction. Fix's current prediciment may mean that MC comes to save them. I hope Fix sees that it is not Bob who is saving them, but another entity, and realize that Bob has no right to Master Fix. When those events start, it will be interesting to see how many of Bob pilots will fight to the death now that it will mean their death instead of someone elses. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])

Swatte Kudasai	Posted - 2007.07.26 18:04:00 - [81] I agree with James 315, attacking RA, TCF, Goons, IAC & KOS in their own section of space at the same time is the move of a coward. BoB aligned forces in Omist/Teneferis brought some yellow-bellied amount like....40% as many pilots as their enemies, their own allies included. Those sissy little girls, real men fight with 20% of the enemies numbers or don't fight at all. God.
Achaiah Black Bag Ops	Posted - 2007.07.26 18:06:00 - [82] Ah, Butter Dog is posting in BoB's defence on CAOD. Now they truly are doomed. Nice read BTW, I'm looking forward to next part.
Erik Amirault Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.26 18:09:00 - [83] Edited by: Erik Amirault on 26/07/2007 18:10:55 Originally by: Swatte Kudasai I agree with James 315, attacking RA, TCF, Goons, IAC & KOS in their own section of space at the same time is the move of a coward. BoB aligned forces in Omist/Teneferis brought some yellow-bellied amount like....40% as many pilots as their enemies, their own allies included. Those sissy little girls, real men fight with 20% of the enemies numbers or don't fight at all. God. You forgot the part where they had 4 rotating titans that were perpetually online and an enormous cap fleet. Also, looking at number of players in alliances doesn't really work. We have huge numbers of part-time players whereas other alliances are founded on the ****-sock ethic. More often than not fleet fights have been even except during major operations run by either side.
Puncher hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.26 18:13:00 - [84] This one is good James, even including sections of pure objectivity this time which is refreshing; however not of the same caliber is Part 1. Now it remains to be seen, will you pull off a Return of the Jedi, or a Matrix: Revolutions. hirr Morsus Mihi
Mihailo Great GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.26 18:16:00 - [85] I don't know why you people didn't understand how his experience with his girlfriend relates to the communication meltdown in BOB. It was pretty clear and spot on. Below average reading comprehension?
Attak Trioptimum FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.26 18:18:00 - [86] Didn't enjoy the GF part too much (does she kickbox?), but the rest was a good read. Again I'll take it with a grain of salt, but there's a few truths that can't be ignored - namely the fact that what holds the majority of BoB together is the desire to always win. When BoB begins to inexcusably lose, it will bleed all those pilots who joined just to be part of the entity that crushed their former alliance so completely. What you have to watch out for is when BoB is done hemmoraging space and members from their defeat, what will be left is the core. The vets of EVOL, RKK and the rest who aren't there to win. They're there to be BoB. They're the people to be scared of. I wouldn't be surprised if BoB turned into another version of TRI once their space is gone. But what's sad now is BoB's desperate attempts to salvage morale and keep people motivated that shouldn't be in their alliance to begin with. I hope part III doesn't take too long
Epoh GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.26 18:20:00 - [87] Originally by: Swatte Kudasai I agree with James 315, attacking RA, TCF, Goons, IAC & KOS in their own section of space at the same time is the move of a coward. BoB aligned forces in Omist/Teneferis brought some yellow-bellied amount like....40% as many pilots as their enemies, their own allies included. Those sissy little girls, real men fight with 20% of the enemies numbers or don't fight at all. So your enemies are expanding at a greater rate than you are. You: Option 1: Attack now, hoping to prevent their growth. Option 2: Wait and let them build up more defensive/offensive capabilities. It's like a choose-your-own-adventure book for the challenged, so I'm reasonably sure you can choose the result which leads less certainly to inevitable death. Epoh Goonfleet Goonswarm
Obron Mettlo Minmatar Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.26 18:22:00 - [88] Originally by: Torshin I believe a member of Pandemic mentioned that he can not remember the last time that BOB lost a station that was firmly in their control. During the Seige of Feyth I believe that both AZN and VNGJ fell for a period of time. Also there is the issue of IAC in Querious taking the H74 station i think. But that one was more of a sov issue. I said "firmly in control" because there have been bugs that messed sov up, or because the system was actively contested - 9-9 and XGH were BoB's stations until Goonswarm came back and took them from BoB. -----------------
Fallen Buckshot Amarr Shadow Gypsies R i s e	Posted - 2007.07.26 18:23:00 - [89] This thread needs less Butterdog more Boonaki TBH
Kola XXX Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.26 18:35:00 - [90] I didn't read you're pages of speculations. I just jump right to the conclusion that you love BoB. .. "Why Is BoB Losing?" my morale backbone. " Why is BoB still in Nol-?"

Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.07.26 18:43:00 - [91] Originally by: Endeva Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn ... The problem of Bob is they never experience a figth vs full pvp alliances. so you want to say here that all those fights before vs iron/g d2 ermm dont know all the names but there are lots of other good pvp allaince. i liked g:P before and their fleet of tempests.p - that they are all carebers and now we met truly PVP oriented allince know as TCF Notice the 's' in what I said. -=-=-
Doodar Aliastra	Posted - 2007.07.26 18:44:00 - [92] You're post is definitely insightful regarding the "glue argument." However, if BoB didn't actively recruit members from vanquished alliances, they would not have enough members to substantiate their conquests. Therefore, I think you should extend your thesis to state that no alliance can ever conquer Eve, because the amount of members needed tears apart the glue that binds successful alliances together.
Hunter Thompson Tranquility Drinkers Club	Posted - 2007.07.26 18:45:00 - [93] Edited by: Hunter Thompson on 26/07/2007 18:46:12 So having read the original post there seems to be three main points padded out with a lot of flannel, conjecture and hearsay. First û BoBÆs previous victories over the last 3+ years were all propaganda, so therefore they will lose this time. Second û BoB will lose because theyÆre membership has grown over the last twelve months. The new members must be rubbish because Bob hasnÆt had a successful recruitment policy ever. Third û Our spies havenÆt picked up on the messages being handed down from the BoB leadership, therefore they must be lying to the membership and will lose soon enough. ThatÆs the short version of JamesÆs post û all hearsay based on COAD threads, which we all know is the most accurate source of information (a bit like the Sunday Sport or the Daily Mirror). ThereÆs a big assumption being made in this thread û that BoB is currently losing. The simple fact of the matter is they arenÆt. The fight is being fought in space that wasnÆt BoBÆs two months ago û how can Bob be losing when they (and their allies) have repelled 30,000 EvE accounts from BoB space and have taken the fight into Coalition territory? Now I have an opinion on why the Goons will ultimately lose. The more Goons develop, the more skill points they gain, the more expensive ships they fly, the more they become like every other alliance in the game û the more the horrendous kill / death ratio will hurt them. Crushing defeats night after night will take its toll. The coalition propaganda machine is in full swing - if we say it enough then maybe people will believe it, maybe the BoB membership will believe it - maybe it's just bullsh*t. The only reason why I've posted in this tone, is to put an opposite point of view to the one being presented in this thread. This war will ebb and flow much more before either side crumbles. I'm loving the way it's turning into a real competition - six weeks ago it looked like BoB would walk right through Goon space, but credit to the Coalition for sorting their house out. Lets hope it continues for many more months.
Johnfromshipping Butcherbirds	Posted - 2007.07.26 18:49:00 - [94] K/D ratio. People still think that is a valid metric to measure success in sov warfare against anyone? Especially goons who are built upon drowning you in their wrecks?
Ki An Gallente KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.26 18:53:00 - [95] Originally by: Johnfromshipping K/D ratio. People still think that is a valid metric to measure success in sov warfare against anyone? Especially goons who are built upon drowning you in their wrecks? That depends. If goons only fly t1 frigates, then no, k/d ratio doesn't mean squat. However, as the guy a couple of posts up said, goons are building skillpoints just like everyone else, and they are no longer just flying t1 frigs (even tho they still love those apparently). No alliance can sustain a war when you lose 5-10 ships for every enemy you take down. Sooner or later you either have to improve that ratio, or you will go bankrupt. /Ki Remember kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.07.26 18:53:00 - [96] Originally by: Hunter Thompson (...) maybe it's just bullsht. (...) Not maybe. This guy keep saying "ahaha, Bob loose" without being on the front, so, it is bull***. Bob is not loosing, they are just having a bad time now, like we had last month, like they had the month before, etc. RSF is not D¦, we play very differently (not better or worse, we play different). Bob play a third game, all I can say it's cool, we are all having a good time. We can rest, they can't. But they are the nbdr dletd afterall. -=-=-
Flow Befort GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.26 19:01:00 - [97] this thread is now about k/d ratios
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.26 19:03:00 - [98] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Johnfromshipping K/D ratio. People still think that is a valid metric to measure success in sov warfare against anyone? Especially goons who are built upon drowning you in their wrecks? That depends. If goons only fly t1 frigates, then no, k/d ratio doesn't mean squat. However, as the guy a couple of posts up said, goons are building skillpoints just like everyone else, and they are no longer just flying t1 frigs (even tho they still love those apparently). No alliance can sustain a war when you lose 5-10 ships for every enemy you take down. Sooner or later you either have to improve that ratio, or you will go bankrupt. /Ki Given the drop in T2 prices, it really doesn't cost that much to lose an insured T1 hull that is T2 fit, as well as the cheaper T2 hulls. Particularly if you have put any effort into more passive income like trading, or have an alt that can be busy ratting/mining/missioning in between battles.
Beyond Horizon Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.07.26 19:04:00 - [99] k/d ratio ! - BH
Ki An Gallente KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.26 19:07:00 - [100] Edited by: Ki An on 26/07/2007 19:09:21 Originally by: Angelus Damelon Given the drop in T2 prices, it really doesn't cost that much to lose an insured T1 hull that is T2 fit, as well as the cheaper T2 hulls. Particularly if you have put any effort into more passive income like trading, or have an alt that can be busy ratting/mining/missioning in between battles. True, but for every PvPer that needs to go grind isk to replace his ship, that's one less on the frontline. Given the numbers involved, I'd say that might have a serious impact on future battles. But what do I know? My k/d ratio sucks. /Ki /Edit: Got rid of a wayward 'n'. Remember kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!

Julian Kirov Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.26 19:14:00 - [101] Originally by: OozoO Quote: Third, and perhaps most importantly, it was a question of timing, not of priorities. She will be there the next day, but those BoB POSes might not be. epic! QFT On the whole though, it was quite an entertaining post for the first half, just please, leave out the girlfriend / "hey guys, I really do have a life!" defensive parts next time. I would hope the majority of players understand the impact of trust and communication in regards to morale to begin with. Hope part three continues to provide some excellent soap opera afternoon entertainment! In the meantime, both sides will be duking it out in space. This war is a long way from being over and there are numerous epic battles yet to be fought. The only real loser in this war and victim of blatant propaganda, is CCP for thinking TQ could handle the massive fleet battles like we've created.
ForumPosterAlt HERRO KITTY	Posted - 2007.07.26 19:16:00 - [102] As proof with all the alliances that have disbanded (none are are destroyed) and given up, and those that have fought relentlessly to the last isk, its all about what players will do rather what they can do. A group of players can combat bob and win, no crap, its just that group of players needs strong leadership. Much like Aragorn says when he accepts the sword of the king of gondor, leaders must lead, a leader must be there, a leader's will, determination, and faith are what gives those who follow him resolve when the going gets tough, and hope in the shadow of defeat. Now the leader doesn't take constellations, they just provide the leadership to bring many players together for a common purpose. So making little of BoB's competent leadership is a mistake imo. SirMolle isn't used to defeat and made a mistake in being overly confident in victory vs RSC. It brings his leadership into question in the minds of many bobbites, and the best thing he can do right now for the future of BoB is to humble his arrogant alliance and make it clear that victory isn't certain, that the number of quality players in BoB isn't enough to hold all that blue space, and start being smart again. In short, BoB is losing right now because they are being extremely reckless. We can look to history and the fall of Rome to see where this train's is headed if it keeps this up. Because posting on the forums is serious business.
Fornacis Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.26 19:20:00 - [103] The more I read.... the more I find myself attracted to you ....
Torshin Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2007.07.26 19:24:00 - [104] Originally by: Obron Mettlo Originally by: Torshin I believe a member of Pandemic mentioned that he can not remember the last time that BOB lost a station that was firmly in their control. During the Seige of Feyth I believe that both AZN and VNGJ fell for a period of time. Also there is the issue of IAC in Querious taking the H74 station i think. But that one was more of a sov issue. I said "firmly in control" because there have been bugs that messed sov up, or because the system was actively contested - 9-9 and XGH were BoB's stations until Goonswarm came back and took them from BoB. I don't see how either of the stations that i mentioned were not firmly bob controlled. AZN and VNGJ were spammed by Gek fair and square. there was no sov bug ------------------------------------------- Backdoor Bandit - Unofficial leader of the new 'Post with your main or STFU' campaign. I'm Shinra and I'm the champion of Eve.
Inthemix Division Solaris	Posted - 2007.07.26 19:40:00 - [105] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 26/07/2007 16:25:23 The problem of Bob is they never experience a figth vs full pvp alliances. From a guy who losted 5 ships against BoB (0 kill..), mmmmm i feel your pain
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.26 20:04:00 - [106] I wonder if you actually believe what you write . You should write fiction in the rp secion though because you do have a knack for telling tales GOONIES = OMNIPOTENCE INCARNATE
xCOUNTx GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.26 20:07:00 - [107] I'm the girlfriend in the OP Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected][orange] with a link to your signature. - Elm
Itzena Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.26 20:08:00 - [108] Originally by: fire 59 I wonder if you actually believe what you write . You should write fiction in the rp secion though because you do have a knack for telling tales Keep posting, fire 59. -- Nothing will improve the way things currently are.
Beyond Horizon Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.07.26 20:12:00 - [109] 59 problems, but FAILURE CASCADE ain't one. - BH
Syntosk Amarr The Undertakers United Corporations of Eve	Posted - 2007.07.26 20:45:00 - [110] Originally by: Doodar Snipped soon (tm) Excuse-me sir, i think this dropped out of your pocket...

Xanja 2H Industries	Posted - 2007.07.26 20:52:00 - [111] Originally by: Hunter Thompson Edited by: Hunter Thompson on 26/07/2007 18:46:12 Now I have an opinion on why the Goons will ultimately lose. The more Goons develop, the more skill points they gain, the more expensive ships they fly, the more they become like every other alliance in the game û the more the horrendous kill / death ratio will hurt them. Crushing defeats night after night will take its toll. I don't think you GET goons. There's plenty of goons around this days who have plenty of Sp and could fly whatever ship they choose. Yet, they will always enjoy it way more though, to fly cheap crap and mess your day up. If the day should ever come where goons, as a collective, feel seriously threatened in EVE, you'll see a fleet that will truly make you tremble in awe. -----------------
Lowa Gallente North Star Networks Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.07.26 21:11:00 - [112] Originally by: Tobruk James, Have you sent copies of these to Prof. Dawkins? he might find some entertainment value in his book titles and prose style being used in an online game. He, was thinking that as well. As for the rest; long read, too much air. /Lowa What if the truth was something else?
Kashre Minmatar Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.26 21:30:00 - [113] Just my 2 cents, but I think someone needs to go back to propaganda school and consider making it accessible to the people you're tying to convince. I'd wager that almost the only people who bothered to read all of that were people who already hate bob anyways. :P +++ "Etiquette is for the Dojo. In war there is only victory or death." - Eiji Yoshikawa
Convict412	Posted - 2007.07.26 21:37:00 - [114] this looks more like goons forum then accurate informations tbh. it shoud be in section "roleplay spam".
Moon Kitten GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.07.26 21:37:00 - [115] Originally by: Kashre Just my 2 cents, but I think someone needs to go back to propaganda school and consider making it accessible to the people you're tying to convince. I'd wager that almost the only people who bothered to read all of that were people who already hate bob anyways. :P I hate bob but didn't read it. I accept your apology. I live under a bridge
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.26 21:45:00 - [116] Another nice read. I've said it before, and I'll say it again- ever thought of writing for the tabloids? Again, there are some granules of truth scattered through it, but undoubtedly a fair bit of untruth too. Very interesting all the same. --------
Zeros Omega Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.26 21:52:00 - [117] Originally by: TWD Originally by: James 315 ... As observed by such noted CAOD posters as DigitalCommunist and James 315 ... You're not. All I see is a bitter ex-ASCN pilot trying to spin history to make the disbanding of the alliance he was part of less painful. TWD man, I swear, James 315 is Cyvok. I mean, it makes perfect sense! --- History is written on the sands of Arrakis. A chapter has ended, swept away by the whirlwind. One door has closed, but another has opened. And on the other side... our future...
PirateShampoo Minmatar UK Corp FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.26 21:53:00 - [118] It's clear James is getting his info from COAD. As anyone in LV knew, there was no way that LV was running out of ISK. Some where poor but the alliance cash wise was fine. What broke LV's morale was a single event which is well published. JV1V taught us that a war against RSF was impossible. The numbers goons where able to field and the skill and planning of Red/TCF made the war difficult from the start to the end. I doubt there are many alliances who can maintain their morale while your entire PVP force is looking at a character loading screen for 5 hours solid, unable to do anything while your Titan is destroyed and your capital system taken. Sure RSF had a large hand in our death, however I think you will find that the majority of LV blame CCP and not RSF for their loss of morale and subsequent disbanding. I am of course just a grunt, and these opinions may not represent everyone in LV. But I can tell you it certainly represents the feelings of my LV friends.
SchirmerN Amarr WKK Inc. United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.07.26 21:56:00 - [119] Edited by: SchirmerN on 26/07/2007 21:57:20 Arghhh Wall of text! Must have taken some time to write
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.26 22:16:00 - [120] Originally by: Itzena Originally by: fire 59 I wonder if you actually believe what you write . You should write fiction in the rp secion though because you do have a knack for telling tales Keep posting, fire 59. keep posting itzena GOONIES = OMNIPOTENCE INCARNATE

Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.07.26 22:20:00 - [121] Originally by: PirateShampoo It's clear James is getting his info from COAD. As anyone in LV knew, there was no way that LV was running out of ISK. Some where poor but the alliance cash wise was fine. What broke LV's morale was a single event which is well published. JV1V taught us that a war against RSF was impossible. The numbers goons where able to field and the skill and planning of Red/TCF made the war difficult from the start to the end. I doubt there are many alliances who can maintain their morale while your entire PVP force is looking at a character loading screen for 5 hours solid, unable to do anything while your Titan is destroyed and your capital system taken. Sure RSF had a large hand in our death, however I think you will find that the majority of LV blame CCP and not RSF for their loss of morale and subsequent disbanding. I am of course just a grunt, and these opinions may not represent everyone in LV. But I can tell you it certainly represents the feelings of my LV friends. I agree about the morale effects of that night. I think the JV1V lagfest and that bug in don't-remember-which system that reseted the sovereignty and allowed GoonSwarm to take over the system almost overnight, sped up LV's demise by at least 6 weeks... ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.07.26 22:22:00 - [122] Originally by: Ki An No alliance can sustain a war when you lose 5-10 ships for every enemy you take down. Sooner or later you either have to improve that ratio, or you will go bankrupt. /Ki But FIX is still alive.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.07.26 22:25:00 - [123] Originally by: PirateShampoo It's clear James is getting his info from COAD. As anyone in LV knew, there was no way that LV was running out of ISK. Some where poor but the alliance cash wise was fine. What broke LV's morale was a single event which is well published. JV1V taught us that a war against RSF was impossible. The numbers goons where able to field and the skill and planning of Red/TCF made the war difficult from the start to the end. I doubt there are many alliances who can maintain their morale while your entire PVP force is looking at a character loading screen for 5 hours solid, unable to do anything while your Titan is destroyed and your capital system taken. Sure RSF had a large hand in our death, however I think you will find that the majority of LV blame CCP and not RSF for their loss of morale and subsequent disbanding. I am of course just a grunt, and these opinions may not represent everyone in LV. But I can tell you it certainly represents the feelings of my LV friends. So, you blame CCP for the swift collapse of LV. I got news for you...you're fighting the same foes and last I checked CCP still operates the servers, so what makes you think this will be any different this time around? What makes you think that the same pilots that lost the will to fight after one event will not run at the first sign of failure by BoB?
Maksiim Doom and Gloom	Posted - 2007.07.26 22:34:00 - [124] Edited by: Maksiim on 26/07/2007 22:33:52 Removing one's self from one's arse would be a start James.....
LeCiD Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.07.26 22:37:00 - [125] If JV1V battle lowered LV morale, FT- battle lowered RSF morale but just for a while. RSF and the southern coalition in general is founded by alliance who fought for many months. That s the reason why BoB didn t roll on us like they did on ASCN for example. BoB drawback but isn t dead yet. Now we fight and the future will tell us the story we just don t know the end ( happy or not)
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.26 22:40:00 - [126] Another interesting read. Tbh I can't speak for the present but the past was diffrent. When I was in BOB we crushed every single fleet we met. However things change and alot of new people have joined bob... And yes, they are ofc beatable like everyone else. However they smarter than the most. Interesting read, alot of things in your posts that makes one wonder. Oh well, it's only a game. We'll see what happens. Hybrid Syndicate are recruiting experienced pvpers. Channel HSY for info.
Ki An Gallente KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.26 22:43:00 - [127] Originally by: NATMav But FIX is still alive. I know you're trying to flame, but you should find another angle. Sure, our k/d ratio is nowhere near BoB's, but it's leagues better than the goons'. /Ki Remember kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
PirateShampoo Minmatar UK Corp FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.26 22:45:00 - [128] Last I checked we are fighting Razor, MM, Tri, Hydra and lots of other smaller alliances. I certainly have alot of respect for MM, Tri and to a degree razor. I would not bet on any outcome at this stage, but I find it unlikely that JV1V will ever happen again for the following reasons: CCP did learn from JV1V, this was seen in F-T, we also learnt from J1V1 we won't be holing up in a dead end system to protect it again and finally while our opponents are very worthy they don't blob the same way goons do (I like to think this is because the alliances we are now fighting are far more honorable and respect worthy then the goons (not talking about RED/TCF as they in a entirely different class these days). Of course these discussions are fairly pointless. Time as always will tell, as much any many people can pretend to predict the future or outcome of any battle it is and always has been so much horse***.
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.26 22:49:00 - [129] Another good read, keep it up. Originally by: Khavi Vetali Oh don't worry, the goons are just as suicidal with their battleships as they are with their frigates.
Kenion THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.26 23:03:00 - [130] A nice read but could you leave out the GF thingie next time? It just bores me. ---------------------------------------------- Fight BoB because all women love the strong who falls, but also the weak that stands.

Astarte Nosferatu We Know Derek Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.07.26 23:06:00 - [131] Originally by: NATMav Originally by: Ki An No alliance can sustain a war when you lose 5-10 ships for every enemy you take down. Sooner or later you either have to improve that ratio, or you will go bankrupt. /Ki But FIX is still alive. Lol, so true. I don't think a single FIX corp left during the five month war between FIX and IRON (and the dozen or so alliances that teamed up later on). Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
CYVOK Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.07.26 23:09:00 - [132] Another good read! You forgot to mention BoB's policy of placing alts in pet alliances or acquiring (unknown to others) the canceled accounts/characters of influential players already their in. They then use these alts to directly influence the pets to blindly believe in how awesome it is to be a BoB pet. I can also attest to the ability of many of BoB's PvPers (and the MC's for that mater) A great many are outstanding PvPers. Just look at their Corp history, a great many of their members received their "training" from CLS, Xetic and ASCN Corps that have been fighting since day 1 in EvE. I share your opinion, many of them "joined the enemy" because they were sick of having to "work" to win. To be fair however, some of them did join because they wanted pure PvP without all the ôEmpire Buildingö care-bears enjoy, BoB gave it to them. Also, there are several I still have great respect for. Looking forward to part III
TARREX Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.07.26 23:15:00 - [133] Hellooooo
Scarcus Caldari Stain of Mind	Posted - 2007.07.26 23:19:00 - [134] Originally by: Vladimir Titov Edited by: Vladimir Titov on 26/07/2007 17:51:18 I got in trouble last time I posted with my main (in the GBC) so this time this is self-admittedly an alt. I wanted to address what you said about how PvP'ers are recruited from among BoB's targets. You really hit on a point I often spent a long time thinking about. But I don't agree with regards to saying they are riding cotails of others. The thing is, when you are a vet who has been playing EvE since launch, you really have very few options. I spent most of my 4+ years in EvE fighting against Evolution or its allies and interests. First it was FA/SA, then ATUK, then ATUK's pets and the 5 and so on. So for me after so many battles there is no aura of invincibility or feeling that fighting them is futile. They are just people, and when someone like me is always thinking several steps ahead in a fight, more often than not I was able to not let them get the best of me. It takes a lot of control, patience and determination to fight these people and to know when to strike. I cannot emphasis patience enough. Whenever it was a war of wills, my will was something that could never be broken. If ATUK did not want to show its hand and was waiting for my fleet to camp the gate so they could dictate the fight, I would simply keep my fleet in an SS and deny them that pleasure, for as long as it took. The way I feel about BoB is very clear, but I also came to a realization that this was a game, and I was tired constantly offering guidance to people with less experience than me or did not approach EvE with the same competitive edge as me. Its impossible to win a battle of wills when the people you are with break down easy. It wears you down. Yet at the same time I didn't want to join BoB because it is those who go against BoB that stand out in EvE. For better or worse, they are the people that are remembered. But like I said, your options are limited. I suppose if I could speak russian I would have joined RA, but I don't. Instead I created this alt with this name to honor their achievements in EvE. Joining BoB or the GBC is not about taking the easy road or winning all the time. Its about joining people who have the same hunger as you, who will analyze a fight after its done instead of saying "oh well its just a game and that was fun". You want people who will be there in battleships after they lose their dreads, in cruisers after they lose their battleships...and so on. Its not only about pvp though. You want to be able to go to bed at night and not worry about a POS's fuel level. The worst feeling possible is feeling when the weight of the world is on your shoulders, that if you don't log in certain things wont get done. Finally you want to fly with people that don't know the meaning of impossible. If item xyz needs to be in system abc in the next day, they will treat the same way you do: find a way to get it done. And to top it all, I wanted leadership that is going to make the best use of my peristence and tenacity, not leadership that will demand 1/5th of what I can really do. And so the choices become really slim, and before I knew it, I found myself in a situation I didn't think I would. I am not riding their cotails, they are riding mine. Excellent well-thought out post, sir. It was so good, I completely overlooked the spelling errors, etc. :) Once NOL has been purged with cleansing fire, and all the vassals are put to the sword, I'm sure we'll have a lovely little cold war, your bloc and ours. Originally by: KIATolon Chowdown, if you use your t
Orree Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.26 23:23:00 - [135] Originally by: Morris Falter Edited by: Morris Falter on 26/07/2007 16:20:37 Another installment! Edit: It was all going well, till you started discussing your girlfriend. Buy her some flowers chap, she deserves them. Disagree. I actually plan to use his arguments against my wife next time we discuss EVE. "How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli
joshua cane Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.07.26 23:30:00 - [136] nice read time will tell
munchy Alcatraz Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.26 23:34:00 - [137] wether right or wrong, these are some pretty well thought out and intelligent posts imo, and give a very interesting insight into what could be going on inside bob, keep on writing dude. ---
Endeva Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.26 23:36:00 - [138] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Originally by: Endeva Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn ... The problem of Bob is they never experience a figth vs full pvp alliances. so you want to say here that all those fights before vs iron/g d2 ermm dont know all the names but there are lots of other good pvp allaince. i liked g:P before and their fleet of tempests.p - that they are all carebers and now we met truly PVP oriented allince know as TCF Notice the 's' in what I said. okey so allainces tcf ragoons and other.but what with the allainces we fight before? you said we never fought with pvp oriented allaince till now.
duckmonster GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.26 23:54:00 - [139] Edited by: duckmonster on 26/07/2007 23:54:48 Originally by: fire 59 edit: fire 59's sig You've been in eve how long now? And you STILL dont get the punchline. Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected][orange] with a link to your signature (file
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.07.27 00:10:00 - [140] Not all BoB corps are only there to win, some actually go for it for the sake of it. I'm thinking mainly about BNC here, but it's a whole other story when fighting Evol. To be honest, most EVE pilots/corps/alliances want to win, which is plain silly since you can only win or lose pixels. Not everybody likes to Leeroy (which I love ) and fleet commanders often cut hairs before engaging because they don't want to take the blame of a loss. That's why I wish Goons existed when I started playing, they fit my playstyle: fun, and only fun, flush the ego! ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not.

Taratai Enko Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.27 00:17:00 - [141] epa epa!
Murukan Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2007.07.27 00:23:00 - [142] Itz soz clear dat if bob wantz to winz dey ned moar pylons! Manlove by Zaphod Jones
Misfitsa Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.27 00:26:00 - [143] Originally by: Kashre Just my 2 cents, but I think someone needs to go back to propaganda school and consider making it accessible to the people you're tying to convince. Yes, leave out the girlfriend part. 99% of the Eve-O community cannot relate to that stuff in any way.
DTee The Huns	Posted - 2007.07.27 00:38:00 - [144] Edited by: DTee on 27/07/2007 00:43:48 I can funnily enough say that I liked reading that post. The bond in BoB isn't friendship because there is nothing personal about BoB (apart from the core). Its about pride rather then the hours of man power you spent building that POS. Instead its about the isk your pet corps put down. So why should you stay in BoB if you keep loosing? I cannot say that BoB aren't good or their pvpers dont have skill. The question comes down to morale. Definately a different and valid point of view. Even thought slightly different fromt he ones voiced in the past.
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.07.27 00:40:00 - [145] Originally by: CYVOK Another good read! You forgot to mention BoB's policy of placing alts in pet alliances or acquiring (unknown to others) the canceled accounts/characters of influential players already their in. They then use these alts to directly influence the pets to blindly believe in how awesome it is to be a BoB pet. I can also attest to the ability of many of BoB's PvPers (and the MC's for that mater) A great many are outstanding PvPers. Just look at their Corp history, a great many of their members received their "training" from CLS, Xetic and ASCN Corps that have been fighting since day 1 in EvE. I share your opinion, many of them "joined the enemy" because they were sick of having to "work" to win. To be fair however, some of them did join because they wanted pure PvP without all the ôEmpire Buildingö care-bears enjoy, BoB gave it to them. Also, there are several I still have great respect for. Looking forward to part III NO FFS they joined bob because YOU tought them to worship the freakin bobbits since day one of ascn. "Oh bob is so uber lets not go **** them off" "Hey bob need us to camp ec- for a week comon my little peons go stare at bubbles" You are a good guy cyvok but you need to wake the fuxx up alredy. James 315: another junk post made up of 50% stating the obvious and 50% "omg ascn wasnt that bad afterall". Listen to ur gf and stop posting. - Gob Stealth bombers work!
Interval Grenadiers	Posted - 2007.07.27 00:52:00 - [146] Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Originally by: CYVOK Another good read! You forgot to mention BoB's policy of placing alts in pet alliances or acquiring (unknown to others) the canceled accounts/characters of influential players already their in. They then use these alts to directly influence the pets to blindly believe in how awesome it is to be a BoB pet. I can also attest to the ability of many of BoB's PvPers (and the MC's for that mater) A great many are outstanding PvPers. Just look at their Corp history, a great many of their members received their "training" from CLS, Xetic and ASCN Corps that have been fighting since day 1 in EvE. I share your opinion, many of them "joined the enemy" because they were sick of having to "work" to win. To be fair however, some of them did join because they wanted pure PvP without all the ôEmpire Buildingö care-bears enjoy, BoB gave it to them. Also, there are several I still have great respect for. Looking forward to part III NO FFS they joined bob because YOU tought them to worship the freakin bobbits since day one of ascn. "Oh bob is so uber lets not go **** them off" "Hey bob need us to camp ec- for a week comon my little peons go stare at bubbles" You are a good guy cyvok but you need to wake the fuxx up alredy. James 315: another junk post made up of 50% stating the obvious and 50% "omg ascn wasnt that bad afterall". Listen to ur gf and stop posting. - Gob When Cyvok posted I wondered who would be the first to tear into him and I made a mental bet that it would be you Gob.
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.27 00:58:00 - [147] The Girlfriend bit made me laugh, actually. Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
Rthor Gallente Smugglers Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.27 01:03:00 - [148] Originally by: James 315 I communicated that my girlfriend's arguments suffered from a number of fundamental flaws. First, the question of whether she or Eve is more important is irrelevant, since the two are not in conflict. Second, the question assumes an all-or-nothing approach that also ignores decreasing marginal utility. For example, on an absolute scale, food is more important than music, but would we force all the world's musicians to become farmers? Of course not. Likewise, terminating James 315 to spend more time with my girlfriend would be suboptimal. Third, and perhaps most importantly, it was a question of timing, not of priorities. She will be there the next day, but those BoB POSes might not be. (As it turned out, the BoB POSes did get popped.) I am not worthy... This is probably the best paragraph ever written on these forums.
EL TITAN Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.27 01:13:00 - [149] Im not one that posts much for a variety of reasons. Anyways I just wanted to thank James for taking time to make such a long post about my alliance. In a way I am touched that someone out-there spends a lot of time thinking about what my alliance mates and I do when playing the game. I cant say I agree with many of your points though :o _________________________________________________ <3 hi
Zeta Strike	Posted - 2007.07.27 01:20:00 - [150] Originally by: PirateShampoo What broke LV's morale was a single event which is well published. JV1V taught us that a war against RSF was impossible. The numbers goons where able to field and the skill and planning of Red/TCF made the war difficult from the start to the end. I doubt there are many alliances who can maintain their morale while your entire PVP force is looking at a character loading screen for 5 hours solid, unable to do anything while your Titan is destroyed and your capital system taken. Sure RSF had a large hand in our death, however I think you will find that the majority of LV blame CCP and not RSF for their loss of morale and subsequent disbanding. By the time JV1V happened, BoB had entered the war on LV's side hadn't it? While LV decided that fighting RSF was "impossible" and disbanded, BoB proceeded to take back the space LV had lost, proving that fighting against RSF was indeed possible, and with less numbers than BoB+LV combined possessed.

ArcticFox Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.27 01:34:00 - [151] Quote: I don't want this to turn into another long post. Considering that you were on the fifth full post by the time you got to this line, it's pretty safe to say you failed on that count. Honestly, this started out decent enough, but then you spent a page and a half rambling about your girlfriend and inundating us with examples of your wonderful communication. This whole section simply felt like you were meandering too far off the main topic, and even though you were trying to use it to make a point, I don't think the point came across very strongly. Frankly pretty dissapointed by the relative quality of this post as compared to the last one. -------------------------- There is no +6 sword of WTFPWN in Eve.
ArcticFox Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.27 01:38:00 - [152] Edited by: ArcticFox on 27/07/2007 01:38:48 Originally by: Zeta Strike Originally by: PirateShampoo What broke LV's morale was a single event which is well published. JV1V taught us that a war against RSF was impossible. The numbers goons where able to field and the skill and planning of Red/TCF made the war difficult from the start to the end. I doubt there are many alliances who can maintain their morale while your entire PVP force is looking at a character loading screen for 5 hours solid, unable to do anything while your Titan is destroyed and your capital system taken. Sure RSF had a large hand in our death, however I think you will find that the majority of LV blame CCP and not RSF for their loss of morale and subsequent disbanding. By the time JV1V happened, BoB had entered the war on LV's side hadn't it? While LV decided that fighting RSF was "impossible" and disbanded, BoB proceeded to take back the space LV had lost, proving that fighting against RSF was indeed possible, and with less numbers than BoB+LV combined possessed. There hasn't been a battle like JV1V since then. Nothing BoB has faced can be compared to it. JV1V was the most effective deployment of the mobile lag-bomb that is Goonswarm in history, and is now impossible to reproduce due to caps on the number of pilots that may enter a system. Oh yeah, and BoB actually didn't start taking back old LV space for quite some time after the collapse of LV. I recall for a while there the Coalition was pretty convinced it was on the way into Delve, not the other way around. -------------------------- There is no +6 sword of WTFPWN in Eve.
The Beatnuts UA Industry Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.27 02:20:00 - [153] Originally by: Endeva but what with the allainces we fight before? you said we never fought with pvp oriented allaince till now. Now please, I'm just asking I can't exactly remember how the facts went and don't want to bring back old memories. I remember BOB liking to fight [G]. Did [G] disband? or got disolved by BOB? Then again, I'm totaly drunk, trying to post well and would like to be informed. Don't speak english - f1, f2, f3
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.07.27 02:26:00 - [154] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: NATMav But FIX is still alive. I know you're trying to flame, but you should find another angle. Sure, our k/d ratio is nowhere near BoB's, but it's leagues better than the goons'. /Ki It was more of a back-handed compliment TBH. FIX has put up some pretty poor numbers, but always comes back to fight and hasn't rolled over yet. That disproves the whole 1:5 ratio is not sustainable theory.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.07.27 02:28:00 - [155] Originally by: PirateShampoo Edited by: PirateShampoo on 26/07/2007 23:06:35 Edited by: PirateShampoo on 26/07/2007 22:46:43 Edited by: PirateShampoo on 26/07/2007 22:45:50 Originally by: NATMav Originally by: PirateShampoo It's clear James is getting his info from COAD. As anyone in LV knew, there was no way that LV was running out of ISK. Some where poor but the alliance cash wise was fine. What broke LV's morale was a single event which is well published. JV1V taught us that a war against RSF was impossible. The numbers goons where able to field and the skill and planning of Red/TCF made the war difficult from the start to the end. I doubt there are many alliances who can maintain their morale while your entire PVP force is looking at a character loading screen for 5 hours solid, unable to do anything while your Titan is destroyed and your capital system taken. Sure RSF had a large hand in our death, however I think you will find that the majority of LV blame CCP and not RSF for their loss of morale and subsequent disbanding. I am of course just a grunt, and these opinions may not represent everyone in LV. But I can tell you it certainly represents the feelings of my LV friends. So, you blame CCP for the swift collapse of LV. I got news for you...you're fighting the same foes and last I checked CCP still operates the servers, so what makes you think this will be any different this time around? What makes you think that the same pilots that lost the will to fight after one event will not run at the first sign of failure by BoB? Last I checked we are fighting Razor, MM, Tri, Hydra and lots of other smaller alliances. I certainly have alot of respect for MM, Tri and to a degree razor. I would not bet on any outcome at this stage, but I find it unlikely that JV1V will ever happen again for the following reasons: CCP did learn from JV1V, this was seen in F-T, we also learnt from J1V1 we won't be holing up in a dead end system to protect it again and finally while our opponents are very worthy they don't blob the same way goons do (I like to think this is because the alliances we are now fighting are far more honorable and respect worthy then the goons (not talking about RED/TCF as they in a entirely different class these days). Edit: In addition our foes share the timezone, I can't tell you what a boon this is. It's very difficult fighting wars with different timezones, as there is little action. The hostile just attack your systems in their timezone and you spend your time repping poses in your timezone, which as many people will attest sucks. Win or Lose I prefer to actually have a battle and still be able to get up for work the next morning. Of course these discussions are fairly pointless. Time as always will tell, as much any many people can pretend to predict the future or outcome of any battle or war it is and always has been so much horse***. Sorry, I should have paid better attention to your corp ticker. I replied thinking you were one of the ones that ran to join BoB for easy mode. However, we will probably see soon the resolve of the new northern land-grabbers, so for your sake, I hope you are right.
Kvarium Ki Legion Du Lys GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.27 02:34:00 - [156] I joined a corp in Goonswarm 2 days ago. Let me say that every pre-conceived notion I had about the Goons has been utterly shattered. I don't know if they will find this flattering or not but the Goons are VERY well organized and are definatly not all suicidale maniacs flying t1 frigates. The fleet commanders have been very good and the discipline on team speak is also very good. If my assumptions about the Goons where wrong it's safe to say that my assumptions about BoB are also probably wrong. That doesn't rellay matter to me, I just like shooting BoB, it's very rewarding playing against those everyone consider to be the best. But that's an assumption isn't it? KK.
Ponderous Thunderstroke Republic War Machine Industries	Posted - 2007.07.27 03:26:00 - [157] Originally by: Vladimir Titov Joining BoB or the GBC is not about taking the easy road or winning all the time. Its about joining people who have the same hunger as you, who will analyze a fight after its done instead of saying "oh well its just a game and that was fun". You want people who will be there in battleships after they lose their dreads, in cruisers after they lose their battleships...and so on. Its not only about pvp though. You want to be able to go to bed at night and not worry about a POS's fuel level. The worst feeling possible is feeling when the weight of the world is on your shoulders, that if you don't log in certain things wont get done. Finally you want to fly with people that don't know the meaning of impossible. If item xyz needs to be in system abc in the next day, they will treat the same way you do: find a way to get it done. And to top it all, I wanted leadership that is going to make the best use of my peristence and tenacity, not leadership that will demand 1/5th of what I can really do. Boy did you screw up then. Everything you're describing means you should have joined Goonswarm. Bad choices, FTL.
Charles Case Caldari Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.27 03:30:00 - [158] Originally by: Zeta Strike By the time JV1V happened, BoB had entered the war on LV's side hadn't it? While LV decided that fighting RSF was "impossible" and disbanded, BoB proceeded to take back the space LV had lost, proving that fighting against RSF was indeed possible, and with less numbers than BoB+LV combined possessed. and a few more titans and pilots that knew how to use them to their full completeley unbalanced potential. Your signature has been deemed inappropriate. If you have any questions about this please Mail the Mods be sure to include a link to your signature. -Darth Patches
Gentle Glide kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.07.27 03:54:00 - [159] QFT!
Dungar Loghoth Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.27 04:39:00 - [160] Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 27/07/2007 04:43:24 Originally by: PirateShampoo It's clear James is getting his info from COAD. As anyone in LV knew, there was no way that LV was running out of ISK. Some where poor but the alliance cash wise was fine. The players are the ones that fight, not the alliance. You should have been more worried about the individual pilot's wallet than building another titan for the people that ended up jumping ship when things looked their worst. When some of your membership can't even afford to replace interceptors, you're doing something very wrong. Quote: What broke LV's morale was a single event which is well published. JV1V taught us that a war against RSF was impossible. The numbers goons where able to field and the skill and planning of Red/TCF made the war difficult from the start to the end. You were broken way before this, back when the DG- dreads jumped you. Up at the end, Omist had already abandonded and your alliance was more concerned about moving to stain than trying to hold out. Quote: I doubt there are many alliances who can maintain their morale while your entire PVP force is looking at a character loading screen for 5 hours solid, unable to do anything while your Titan is destroyed and your capital system taken. Blaming the fall of an entire alliance on one night of crappy servers is a cop-out. Your leadership all disppeared (rather coincidentally) at the same time, and you were left to fend for yourself. You have no one to blame but them. Originally by: ArcticFox There hasn't been a battle like JV1V since then. Nothing BoB has faced can be compared to it. JV1V was the most effective deployment of the mobile lag-bomb that is Goonswarm in history, and is now impossible to reproduce due to caps on the number of pilots that may enter a system. There were a ton of other alliances represented there, I doubt goonswarm made up even half. If you guys had managed to save the towers, you wouldn't even be mentioning JV1V as anything but a "heroic stand despite goonswarm's bookmark bombs". Just because we had outpoliticed you doesn't mean we cheated or tried crashing the servers or any of that other non-sense you try and use to explain poor leadership and planning.

Lee Bian Amarryan Nations GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.27 05:37:00 - [161] i'm thinking that if i post here maybe i will create enough lag to make goonswarm win
Martin VanBuren GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.27 06:42:00 - [162] Originally by: PirateShampoo CCP did learn from JV1V, this was seen in F-T, we also learnt from J1V1 we won't be holing up in a dead end system to protect it again and finally while our opponents are very worthy they don't blob the same way goons do (I like to think this is because the alliances we are now fighting are far more honorable and respect worthy then the goons (not talking about RED/TCF as they in a entirely different class these days). Okay guys x up now for the titan killing gang! Oh dang that's alot of people who want to come along, sorry but half of you are going to stay behind. Don't want people to think we're dishonorable lag-bombers now do we.
Caldari Citizen 6280 Various Disease	Posted - 2007.07.27 07:30:00 - [163] TL;DR --- Secret Forum Alt Secret Forum Alt They've given you a number because your name was offensive.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.27 09:02:00 - [164] I still think James is spot on about this point: an alliance can forever last through hardship if the majority of its members perceive that they can not get a similar (or better) playing experience in any other alliance. In other words, their internal loyalty and interest in the game means they will never stop playing Eve, and they will never leave their alliance, granting that alliance a permanent power base. This is true of Goonswarm and Red Alliance: the majority of players in these two alliances probably don't think they'll have nearly as much fun anywhere else, so they choose not to leave. This grants those alliances lasting strength. In the case of D2, however, the majority of members probably thought they could have more fun elsewhere as soon as they realized there were tough times ahead. Placed in a situation similar to the MC offensive against the north, Goonswarm and Red Alliance would have survived and recovered due to their internal loyalties. In fact, I believe we're seeing Razor Alliance doing exactly that. The question now is: does the Band of Brothers have similar internal loyalties like RedSwarm? Or are they like D2, an alliance that rises to power, but eventually falls apart when the going gets tough. Only time will really tell, and I do not pretend to know the answer. I'm pretty much rephrasing what James said though. --- Grismar.net
Drongen Caldari Eve Liberation Force Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.27 09:09:00 - [165] Yet another great post and i rly enjoyed reading it, u sir have some great writing skills. No comments about if anything is true or not since I'm still trying to catch up with the happenings in the north and south but this surely shred some light :). ----- Nothing to see here, move along.
The Anointed Caldari KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.07.27 09:45:00 - [166] Regardless of accuracy, I must admit that your posts are quite pleasant to read. Are you a fan of R.Dawkins perhaps?
Pehova Mindtriq Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.07.27 10:01:00 - [167] Originally by: The Beatnuts Originally by: Endeva but what with the allainces we fight before? you said we never fought with pvp oriented allaince till now. Now please, I'm just asking I can't exactly remember how the facts went and don't want to bring back old memories. I remember BOB liking to fight [G]. Did [G] disband? or got disolved by BOB? Then again, I'm totaly drunk, trying to post well and would like to be informed. well bob brought a big blob to ec-p with ASCN and The 5 showing that they weren't in for the good fights, just victory(through blobbing i might add). [G] didn't want to do the whole blob warfare thing and disbanded. Oh and that event might had to do something with that nobody from the north cared to help ASCN later on. Celestial Apocalypse Recruitment
Le Bon Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.27 10:04:00 - [168] I complimented you on your first post as some of the information was relatively correct for an outsiders point of view. This post is built on pure paranoid thoughts which holds hardly close to 0 truth and let me say it, biast opinion. = Ninja Smack Alt
Fendragun Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.27 10:51:00 - [169] Originally by: James 315 It goes further still. When ATUK was incorporated into BoB as the DICE (Destructive Influence) corporation, it was largely seen as an attempt to join the one big remaining PvP powerhouse into BoB, creating an alliance with no real competitors remaining in Eve. But perhaps in part because of the motivation, DICE was not respected as "fully BoB". This is why even today, despite all of DICE's efforts to the contrary, DICE is sometimes referred to as "BoB Lite". (If DICE is "BoB Lite", does that make Shinra "BoB Free"?) In a less concentrated but more pervasive scale than the DICE assimilation, there is the BoB policy of drafting PvP'ers from their targets. This ensures that even those skilled PvP'ers who remain in Eve will not recollect in other alliances to pose BoB future risk. Often these defections occur even while the war between BoB and its target still rages. For an alliance that claims to want only "good fights", we can see how BoB goes to great lengths to avoid fighting anyone--even individual pilots!--who could offer a good fight. Just wanted to comment on this section. I was the person that took ATUK to Dice and into BOB. The main reason for us doing this was that I had left alot of ships in Nol from my FA days and I wanted them back. Molle said the price was the souls of all my members. It was the easiest decision in my life. Oh and if you didnt know our slogan from ATUK its the following: Evolution will teach you over millions of years. ATUK will school you now! EX-DICE CEO EX-ATUK Director EX-MACE CEO EX-Xanadu Officer
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.27 11:16:00 - [170] Originally by: Fendragun Just wanted to comment on this section. I was the person that took ATUK to Dice and into BOB. Terrible decision, and I imagine it will get undone soon. Took a bunch of fine pvpers and imo one of the best corps in the game and turn them into cannon fodder and gofers for bob.

Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.27 11:19:00 - [171] Originally by: TWD Originally by: James 315 ... As observed by such noted CAOD posters as DigitalCommunist and James 315 ... You're not. All I see is a bitter ex-ASCN pilot trying to spin history to make the disbanding of the alliance he was part of less painful. Must be hard to walk around with such a big ego on your head. ;) Having been in a few alliances so far - 6 i think in a period of 1yr with most of them dead now or close to, I can say you are pretty spot on with the moral thing when it comes to them. Considering how BoB has been recruiting like crazy - because they just like RAGOON are playing this game to win it, it would be illogical to think that they wouldn't absorb any rotten apples - especially considering the fact that bob pilots have an ego the size of a MWD-ing mothership. Not sure if this spells "super critical danger" but it is surely a problem. However if they don't get more numbers they are in danger of being overrun, so this move of mass recruiting is deffinitely a necessity. Caldari are the plague of EVE, little whiners that must be cleansed from TQ.
Zataaki	Posted - 2007.07.27 11:39:00 - [172] Edited by: Zataaki on 27/07/2007 11:40:02 The biggest change in the tide of this war occurred when bob was shown how good they really are without their supercapitals on godmode.
Herring Pimpology Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.07.27 11:42:00 - [173] Originally by: Kaaii Sooommmeeeooonneee didn't read my Guiiiide..... 3) Yetanotherknowitall?
Fitz Chivalry eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.27 11:51:00 - [174] Edited by: Fitz Chivalry on 27/07/2007 11:52:48 I still think that although the average quality level has undeniably dipped, BoB are still the best enemy out there and IMO the only people really worth fighting, as they will fight and will commit numbers, will teach you a thing or two and are engaged in 0.0 sov wars, as opposed to just roaming about in l333t gank teams going after soft targets like most of the "alternatives" to BoB out there for the bored pvper. . edit: removed some semi-flame stuff for the sake of the poor overworked mods
jernej Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.27 11:56:00 - [175] First of all I'd like to say that propaganda should be shorter, 2 posts max. Secondly the the OP, you are taking the game way too seriously. It's really not necessary to write essays about things that are so simple. BoB is a pvp oriented alliance. It was decided by the leadership that we want to become an empire, that we need a couple more regions for DICE or we just want to kill some **** and also enjoy the POSwar aspects of the game. I don't know, I'm not part of the BoB leadership. Now, if we decide that we had enough, get blobbed to hell or CCP starts to nerff us every 3 months instead of every 6 months... There will always be our Blood friens waiting for us in Delve. They let us shoot them and dock at the same time, true sportsmen! cheers
Ascoyne Dascoyne Amarr Kind Hearts and Coronets	Posted - 2007.07.27 12:26:00 - [176] You need a radio show
Angelus X Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.27 13:47:00 - [177] Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu One of the best series in months on CAOD. There's surprisingly much truth in the James 315 posts threads. Much? Not Much? Originally by: Malachon Draco Highly interesting and entertaining read. Not sure if its all true, but well-wrought arguments brought in an entertaining read always make for good reading. And that pretty much sums it up doesn't it. The majority of readers know that James 315 is not unbiased, nor do his posts contain 100% facts, but that doesn't seem to be a problem for most people either? While some would say most of the stuff he says is true, there are endless random 'facts' dropped into his post all over the place that just stink of exaggeration or plain crap, e.g. BoB not posting lossmails?? and the quite blatent not understanding the 'bob lite' joke, just two of many. So meh, enjoy the tabloid style uber length posts if they entertain you, it's not like anyone from BoB could say anything to convince you otherwise. Foxor : targets are lewt, just not yet in can form Hi
Donna Maria Amarr	Posted - 2007.07.27 14:11:00 - [178] Just seems like you not only Fail at Eve, but you Fail at having a girlfriend. Can I have your stuff? (is she cute?) Im the girl momma warned you about..
Grimm Tbone Caldari Spacelane Petrol	Posted - 2007.07.27 14:12:00 - [179] Originally by: Angelus X Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu One of the best series in months on CAOD. There's surprisingly much truth in the James 315 posts threads. Much? Not Much? Originally by: Malachon Draco Highly interesting and entertaining read. Not sure if its all true, but well-wrought arguments brought in an entertaining read always make for good reading. And that pretty much sums it up doesn't it. The majority of readers know that James 315 is not unbiased, nor do his posts contain 100% facts, but that doesn't seem to be a problem for most people either? While some would say most of the stuff he says is true, there are endless random 'facts' dropped into his post all over the place that just stink of exaggeration or plain crap, e.g. BoB not posting lossmails?? and the quite blatent not understanding the 'bob lite' joke, just two of many. So meh, enjoy the tabloid style uber length posts if they entertain you, it's not like anyone from BoB could say anything to convince you otherwise. I have to ask, as one of those people who has never been involved in this whole afair. why do even you, a passionate BoB member think that anyone from BoB couldn't say anything to convince us otherwise? Do you have that little faith in your leaders, or is the truth self evident? That to me says "we are being exposed, and everyone hates us because we haxed so no matter what spin we put on this everyone will see we are full of bulldrek." I mean, if you had truth on your side, why is it that someone like me, who has no stake or side in this thing, can see both arguments and still see that BoB is in fact very much reliant on smoke and mirrors and the blood of slaves for their superiority. Not saying that is a bad strat, just that its a pretty obvious one. Look at the influence map, vs That other dudes map. what he calls "BOB" space, is really only like 40% bob. the rest is held by serfs. I don't even dignify them by calling them pets. people care about their pets. they love them and would never do anything to hurt them. Most of all they wouldn't use them as shields. Maybe Ron Mexico would. And nobody ever has charged their pets rent. May you live in interesting times.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.07.27 14:16:00 - [180] Originally by: Angelus X So meh, enjoy the tabloid style uber length posts if they entertain you, it's not like anyone from BoB could say anything to convince you otherwise. Are you getting Emo on us Angelus? ------------------------------------------------ Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

Valdis Corick GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.27 15:58:00 - [181] Part III should be entirely about the Hit[l]er-cat. Much more itneresting read Do not discuss moderation in your signature - Should you continue to do so, you will lose the ability to use a signature - Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Mihailo Great GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.27 16:33:00 - [182] Originally by: Valdis Corick Part III should be entirely about the Hit[l]er-cat. Much more itneresting read dis try to explain how much in common your cat and bob leadership have
Krasnij Okjabre Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.27 16:34:00 - [183] Edited by: Krasnij Okjabre on 27/07/2007 16:36:57 I'm sat here wondering if the cat in question looks like this. Edited for link. Light is faster than sound... this is why some people appear bright until you speak to them...
JenDen Caldari LFS Corp	Posted - 2007.07.27 18:59:00 - [184] Originally by: James 315 Why Is BoB Losing? Part II: Survival of the Faithless Very solid and respectful post. Took some time to read it all but it's worth it. James 315, I wish I could buy you a beer. Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Murina Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 02:52:00 - [185] All i see when i read any anti-bob post especialy ones like the OP is a player who at one time or another lost big time to bob and is looking for a way to get a dig in. The ascn issue was a prime example they fought the biggest alliance in the game and all they got from ppl like the OP was comments about how ascn were not a pvp alliance. Well who should they have fought then if the biggest was wrong?. Id be glad to hear from anybody who can say how and who bob should have fought, perhaps everybody all at once so they would actualy lose?.
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 03:40:00 - [186] Originally by: James 315 Since BoB is not invincible, it must inevitably run into an opposing force that is superior. It seems to me the only reason BOB and allies will ever lose is because of their own successes. In beating virtualy every alliance of note they have or will eventualy have pushed so many refugees (for want of a better word) together that they will eventualy get to a point of stalemate. A point where the sheer numbers of hostile corps and alliances arrayed against them is just to great and a situation arises where they come to a halt, unable to push forwards but with hostiles unwilling to leave their areas to invade the real BOB and allies regions. It will not be goon, ra or any other of the child like alliances that will put a halt to BOB's and allies march across the eve universe it will be BOB and allies themseves. Although im sure goon and others will try to take the credit the fact is there never will be another alliance to rival BOB or there allies in the way they played and worked eve and who's failure will be due and only due to their successes.
CrispyKritters Caldari GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.07.28 03:55:00 - [187] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: James 315 Since BoB is not invincible, it must inevitably run into an opposing force that is superior. It seems to me the only reason BOB and allies will ever lose is because of their own successes. In beating virtualy every alliance of note they have or will eventualy have pushed so many refugees (for want of a better word) together that they will eventualy get to a point of stalemate. A point where the sheer numbers of hostile corps and alliances arrayed against them is just to great and a situation arises where they come to a halt, unable to push forwards but with hostiles unwilling to leave their areas to invade the real BOB and allies regions. It will not be goon, ra or any other of the child like alliances that will put a halt to BOB's and allies march across the eve universe it will be BOB and allies themseves. Although im sure goon and others will try to take the credit the fact is there never will be another alliance to rival BOB or there allies in the way they played and worked eve and who's failure will be due and only due to their successes. If you slurp a few more times like this, BoB may let you in.
Laura Baretta Minmatar Excidium.	Posted - 2007.07.28 04:11:00 - [188] A look into two possible futures: Side A wants to rid Space of the Landlord in the south, even tho they probably know that they can never hold that much space and keep it themselves. That means they will have to either become Landlords themselves, or pull out of the conquered territory at some point and leave it to smaller Alliances to work it out themselves. The strongest will survive and at some point terrorise their neighbors, and through constant struggles and absorption eventually become another huge powerblock. At wich point history will repeat itself. Basically this is the way 0.0 is today. Side B wants to bring the whole universe under its control and become a Galactic Empire. The strongest, smaller Alliances are instated as Territorial Guardians, while smaller, weaker Renters live under their wing. Eventually the space will be safer if at some point there really should be no independent Opponent left. Pirates, Resistance and Freedom Fighters would raid the territories and Guerilla warfare of fast moving gangs would be the biggest part of fighting inside the Empire. The only way to kill such a behemoth would be from the inside, through decay of relations and use of conspiracies. There would probably be an Infrastructure in 0.0 similar to High Sec. Old Enemies and ideologies would hide under the mantle of Pet-Alliances and band together in secret. Once they built up enough ressources they would revolt and another big conflict would arise. This would continue until A revolt would successfully declare independence from the Galactic Empire. At wich point fragmentation might tear it apart.
Moonlight Express Amarr Moonlight Express Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.28 04:16:00 - [189] Originally by: CrispyKritters Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: James 315 Since BoB is not invincible, it must inevitably run into an opposing force that is superior. It seems to me the only reason BOB and allies will ever lose is because of their own successes. In beating virtualy every alliance of note they have or will eventualy have pushed so many refugees (for want of a better word) together that they will eventualy get to a point of stalemate. A point where the sheer numbers of hostile corps and alliances arrayed against them is just to great and a situation arises where they come to a halt, unable to push forwards but with hostiles unwilling to leave their areas to invade the real BOB and allies regions. It will not be goon, ra or any other of the child like alliances that will put a halt to BOB's and allies march across the eve universe it will be BOB and allies themseves. Although im sure goon and others will try to take the credit the fact is there never will be another alliance to rival BOB or there allies in the way they played and worked eve and who's failure will be due and only due to their successes. If you slurp a few more times like this, BoB may let you in. or you can pay a one time fee of $9.95 and the goons will let you in.
CrispyKritters Caldari GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.07.28 04:31:00 - [190] Originally by: Moonlight Express Originally by: CrispyKritters Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: James 315 Since BoB is not invincible, it must inevitably run into an opposing force that is superior. It seems to me the only reason BOB and allies will ever lose is because of their own successes. In beating virtualy every alliance of note they have or will eventualy have pushed so many refugees (for want of a better word) together that they will eventualy get to a point of stalemate. A point where the sheer numbers of hostile corps and alliances arrayed against them is just to great and a situation arises where they come to a halt, unable to push forwards but with hostiles unwilling to leave their areas to invade the real BOB and allies regions. It will not be goon, ra or any other of the child like alliances that will put a halt to BOB's and allies march across the eve universe it will be BOB and allies themseves. Although im sure goon and others will try to take the credit the fact is there never will be another alliance to rival BOB or there allies in the way they played and worked eve and who's failure will be due and only due to their successes. If you slurp a few more times like this, BoB may let you in. or you can pay a one time fee of $9.95 and the goons will let you in. ok

Kraknall Minmatar Eve's Brothers of Destiny	Posted - 2007.07.28 05:24:00 - [191] "...while our opponents are very worthy ..." This line sort of confuses me. Apart from the epic wars that we read about between BoB and [insert corpname/alliance here] involving massed capships and the odd Titan, aren't most wars fought by roving mini-bands of gank squads in recons looking to pick off lone targets? By that metric, most "wars" don't involve anyone I'd consider worthy. It's almost always a case of "We outnumber them, we fight. Wait, OH CRAP we're outnumbered, dock and get the Arazus!!"
Sgt Jinxed Obsidian Inc. KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 06:22:00 - [192] Originally by: Krasnij Okjabre Edited by: Krasnij Okjabre on 27/07/2007 16:36:57 I'm sat here wondering if the cat in question looks like this. Holy **** dude Oo
Orangir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 07:08:00 - [193] Originally by: Moonlight Express or you can pay a one time fee of $9.95 and the goons will let you in. Hey now, you have to wait to wait 3 months also. :colbert: Honestly though, I'd much rather pay 10 bux and wait 3 months than get on my knees and fellate a bunch of egotistical ****sockers for 2 years if I wanted to get into one of the "big powers".
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.28 08:44:00 - [194] Originally by: Murina All i see when i read any anti-bob post especialy ones like the OP is a player who at one time or another lost big time to bob and is looking for a way to get a dig in. The ascn issue was a prime example they fought the biggest alliance in the game and all they got from ppl like the OP was comments about how ascn were not a pvp alliance. Well who should they have fought then if the biggest was wrong?. Id be glad to hear from anybody who can say how and who bob should have fought, perhaps everybody all at once so they would actualy lose?. An interesting point to note before the ascn war was that folks were saying that bob wouldn't dare fight ascn/ they had too much power / too dug in / superior industry and it would result in a stalemate etc. As the war raged though, there tune changed and suddenly bob was a bully for picking on the weakest alliance ( insert james15 style propoganda ad nauesm). It was amusing from our perspective because alot of the reds out there ( baddies) were saying they would simply outblob us/ overwhelm us/ we wouldn't stand a chance . GOONIES = OMNIPOTENCE INCARNATE
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.07.28 09:00:00 - [195] Well, it seems that work since rev 2.1 -=-=-
Mihailo Great GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 09:16:00 - [196] You only have to look at BOB's progress now to see how unimpressive they are and can guess how unimpressive they were back then. Talking about Eve history is useless, the present says all there needs to be said. If you solely rely on the BOB killboard to see the progress, you will be disapointed. BOB's killboard displays shuttle and capsule kills on their front page to bolster their image of having a long list of kills daily. They probably have the worst killboard, next to us. It's just the Southern Coalition vs the GBC now, so the train lost half it's wagons, and BOB is still moving, or should I say retreating. There is no D2 in fountain, no one attacking their homes, but still BOB turnout is poor. One thing for sure, BOB are no WTFBBQ'er. If they were, they wouldn't be moving "cautiously". It's a fun war, and CCP does an excellent job considering everything.
Fitz Chivalry eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.28 09:59:00 - [197] Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Murina All i see when i read any anti-bob post especialy ones like the OP is a player who at one time or another lost big time to bob and is looking for a way to get a dig in. The ascn issue was a prime example they fought the biggest alliance in the game and all they got from ppl like the OP was comments about how ascn were not a pvp alliance. Well who should they have fought then if the biggest was wrong?. Id be glad to hear from anybody who can say how and who bob should have fought, perhaps everybody all at once so they would actualy lose?. An interesting point to note before the ascn war was that folks were saying that bob wouldn't dare fight ascn/ they had too much power / too dug in / superior industry and it would result in a stalemate etc. As the war raged though, there tune changed and suddenly bob was a bully for picking on the weakest alliance ( insert james15 style propoganda ad nauesm). It was amusing from our perspective because alot of the reds out there ( baddies) were saying they would simply outblob us/ overwhelm us/ we wouldn't stand a chance . I don't remember anyone stating that Fire? Can you show me where? Certainly I doubt it was anyone from ASCN, unless it was on internal ASCN forums for morale boosting purposes. Everyone in ASCN was pretty much "right, thats it we are pretty much ******" from the word go, which helps to explain our amazing successes to some degree. You knew very well what a state ascn was in before you attacked, considering you had HC access. Don't feel bad though, everyone goes for soft targets, whether its you or any one of the l33t pvp corps/alliances out there, its very rare anyone goes after anyone they perceive to be any good.
Amy Frost eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.28 10:11:00 - [198] Lovely read... Keep 'em coming... Amy Frost Originally by: t20 bree si not suppsoed to be ptu thruog a hoem crabontaion sysetm !
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.28 10:15:00 - [199] Originally by: Fitz Chivalry Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Murina All i see when i read any anti-bob post especialy ones like the OP is a player who at one time or another lost big time to bob and is looking for a way to get a dig in. The ascn issue was a prime example they fought the biggest alliance in the game and all they got from ppl like the OP was comments about how ascn were not a pvp alliance. Well who should they have fought then if the biggest was wrong?. Id be glad to hear from anybody who can say how and who bob should have fought, perhaps everybody all at once so they would actualy lose?. An interesting point to note before the ascn war was that folks were saying that bob wouldn't dare fight ascn/ they had too much power / too dug in / superior industry and it would result in a stalemate etc. As the war raged though, there tune changed and suddenly bob was a bully for picking on the weakest alliance ( insert james15 style propoganda ad nauesm). It was amusing from our perspective because alot of the reds out there ( baddies) were saying they would simply outblob us/ overwhelm us/ we wouldn't stand a chance . I don't remember anyone stating that Fire? Can you show me where? Certainly I doubt it was anyone from ASCN, unless it was on internal ASCN forums for morale boosting purposes. Everyone in ASCN was pretty much "right, thats it we are pretty much ******" from the word go, which helps to explain our amazing successes to some degree. You knew very well what a state ascn was in before you attacked, considering you had HC access. Don't feel bad though, everyone goes for soft targets, whether its you or any one of the l33t pvp corps/alliances out there, its very rare anyone goes after anyone they perceive to be any good. go look at the threads from back then ( can't be assed to search). It wasn't you guys, ascn, saying that. It was all the naysayers and enemies of bob of bob saying we had met our match/ we were doomed/ we stand no chance against ascn industrial might. Which is kinda my point, all the baddies were moanign about saying we go for soft targets/ after mc/ only if isolated etc, but the community on the form said all that stuff about us fighting ascn and how it would be a stalemate, and then backtracked massively that we were picking on a soft target when it became apparent that we were doing alright Everyone moaned that we demonised ascn when in fact, it was they who started the who slagging off thing on there internal forums, and because we brought the lies and bs into the public forum, we were called bad / evil/ traffic wardens etc. I find that the most curious thing to come from all that tbh, it's okay to slag someone off behind there back but if you're called up on it, you are doing wrong? Very strange stuff The current war is a challenge and is dam fun and will not end for a very longtime. Goonies bragging that we are already defeated/ low turnout/ demoralised (lol?) is amusing to watch, doesn't seem to stop bob fleets forming and fighting but i guess the enemy has to do what it can to bolster morale. GOONIES = OMNIPOTENCE INCARNATE
TZeer BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.07.28 10:20:00 - [200] I think you guys having access to HC forums, TS and the ability to offline POSFs helped a great deal.

LeBelInconnu GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.07.28 10:35:00 - [201] Edited by: LeBelInconnu on 28/07/2007 10:37:52 Admittedly I've not yet done much in terms of pvp yet, but yeah I applied to the GS for the most part cause they seemed to be the most fun and competent enemies of BoB that one could find. I just don't see why any new player would want to apply to BoB unless they were complete suck-ups. And even then you'd never be anything to them SP-wise. It's just too bad that the way EVE is set up there seems to be little way for someone who's new to matter as much as someone with many more SP gained simply over time no matter how much they work at it. At least GS is a way to give the bird to people who want to rest on that fact and claim impotence...I mean omnipotence. And as for who's going to win, if anyone even can completely win, who knows. But there's a lot to be said about the allies you choose and the way you conduct yourself, and what more can you control than that?
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.28 10:45:00 - [202] Edited by: fire 59 on 28/07/2007 10:46:55 Edit - Meh, why am i responding to an obvious goon alt doing the propoganda thing GOONIES = OMNIPOTENCE INCARNATE
Ogodai John The Bakhunov Family	Posted - 2007.07.28 10:49:00 - [203] Originally by: fire 59 Edited by: fire 59 on 28/07/2007 10:46:55 Edit - Meh, why am i responding to an obvious goon alt doing the propoganda thing Which one? The guy from eXceed or the one from GoonFleet?
Charles Case Caldari Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 10:55:00 - [204] does anyone else think fire59 is loosing it? are you ok buddyo seriously Your signature has been deemed inappropriate. If you have any questions about this please Mail the Mods be sure to include a link to your signature. -Darth Patches
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.28 10:59:00 - [205] Originally by: Charles Case does anyone else think fire59 is loosing it? are you ok buddyo seriously twitch spasm . How can i lose what i never had ( looks over shoulder ) GOONIES = OMNIPOTENCE INCARNATE
Mihailo Great GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 11:16:00 - [206] Originally by: fire 59 twitch spasm . How can i lose what i never had ( looks over shoulder ) what?
Stinkywrix GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 11:21:00 - [207] Originally by: Charles Case Originally by: fire 59 To my horror my fears had been realised I told my sister that I would be at her place within an hour. I rang the Katoomba Police and spoke with the Police Officer who found my father. He was traumatised. He told me on the phone that he had never witnessed anything quite like what he had found in my father's bed in his entire Police career. As a humanitarian and a nurse, I began to listen to him recount the events of he and his colleagues finding my fathers body. Or rather particular by the smell. The flies. The blood on the walls. He told me that it looked like a possible suicide. As I listened quietly to this Police officer it occurred to me, that my father's death did not only have a final impact on him, but was going to have a powerful rippling effect on many people. I drove to my sister's house. When I walked in the door of my sister's house, the air was tense. My other sister was there. The 14th October, happened to be her birthday. My brother in law was there as well. I again rang the Police. This time the Hornsby Police, who delivered the news of the discovery of my father's body to my sister's. I asked the Sergeant to come back to the house and explain to me the course of action that we now needed to take. The Sergeant, in his duty, was visibly shaken by having to relay such news to the family. My father's family was in disbelief. Numb. Numb of the news. Rational normal people were making irrational decisions. That afternoon, I asked my two sons to drive very carefully to their aunt's place. On telling the news of his grandfather's death to my second son, a physically strong young man in his third year of a Cabinetmaking apprenticeship, he collapsed. My sister and myself broke his fall. In telling my eldest son, the anguish and sadness that he showed was beginning to shake the usual rock solid foundation of my personality. I could not drive home. My eldest son drove me home that night. As we were driving home, I had yet to tell my two youngest daughters of the news of their grandfather's death. Both of my daughters were hysterical and in disbelief. Numb. Not understanding. Incomprehensible. That this larger than life man, their Grandfather, was now no longer with us. As the days passed the real agony of this story began. This thread took an interesting turn. gettin popcorn fo dis. Your signature was inappropriate, email [email protected] to find out why (don't forget to include a link to it) -Sahwoolo
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 11:22:00 - [208] Originally by: Mihailo Great Originally by: fire 59 twitch spasm . How can i lose what i never had ( looks over shoulder ) what? He's saying he was never together. And he didn't mean it literally. He was being light hearted. Behave.
Mihailo Great GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 11:26:00 - [209] Originally by: KIATolon light hearted Oh my, I must apologize to Fire 59, I didn't know he had heart problems.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.28 11:41:00 - [210] Originally by: Mihailo Great Originally by: KIATolon light hearted Oh my, I must apologize to Fire 59, I didn't know he had heart problems. I know you are trying to find something to get me with but it's okay. I accept your apology and forgive you. Lets hope this is the first step towards a better community, where peace, prosperity and vast fields of veld welcome all. We share a common vision of happiness, where goon and bob kind can frolick and sing in harmony <3 GOONIES = OMNIPOTENCE INCARNATE

Tetsujin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 11:42:00 - [211] Hey James 315 you said something about your girlfriend I think but I wasn't paying attention would you mind going on and on and on forever about her again please? Thanks in advance.
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 11:46:00 - [212] Originally by: fire 59 I know you are trying to find something to get me with but it's okay. I accept your apology and forgive you. Lets hope this is the first step towards a better community, where peace, prosperity and vast fields of veld welcome all. We share a common vision of happiness, where goon and bob kind can frolick and sing in harmony <3 It makes me proud you're so like your father. Sacrificing yourself to help others. Respect.
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 11:47:00 - [213] Originally by: Mihailo Great BLAH BLAH BLAH Hey Mihailo, all the directors think your eveo posting sucks, so you're fined and also get out and stay out.
LeBelInconnu GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.07.28 11:51:00 - [214] Quote: Edit - Meh, why am i responding to an obvious goon alt doing the propoganda thing http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=561474 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=548234 And I'm just asking new player forum questions for fun? Now what were you about to say before your edit?
Ki An Gallente KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.28 11:54:00 - [215] Originally by: Crivens It makes me proud you're so like your father. Sacrificing yourself to help others. Respect. Wtf is going on here? Enemies or not, how is this acceptable in any way shape or form? CCP should ban your ass sooner rather than later. /Ki Remember kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Tetsujin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 11:56:00 - [216] Originally by: Ki An Wtf is going on here? Enemies or not, how is this acceptable in any way shape or form? CCP should ban your ass sooner rather than later. /Ki I don't think anyone's ever been banned from anywhere other than the forums for saying something about a dead person. /Tet
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 12:04:00 - [217] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Crivens It makes me proud you're so like your father. Sacrificing yourself to help others. Respect. Wtf is going on here? Enemies or not, how is this acceptable in any way shape or form? CCP should ban your ass sooner rather than later. /Ki I think you have misread my intentions, sir.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.28 12:08:00 - [218] Originally by: Crivens Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Crivens It makes me proud you're so like your father. Sacrificing yourself to help others. Respect. Wtf is going on here? Enemies or not, how is this acceptable in any way shape or form? CCP should ban your ass sooner rather than later. /Ki I think you have misread my intentions, sir. He read it exactly as was intended. Seriously, with all the death and destruction in rl, maybe we can leave rl death and crap out of a game forum GOONIES = OMNIPOTENCE INCARNATE
Moon Kitten GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.07.28 12:13:00 - [219] Edited by: Moon Kitten on 28/07/2007 12:14:38 I agree. Don't mention ~~the war~~ Dungar. I live under a bridge
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 12:34:00 - [220] hey fire 59 why don't you brag about how many "stone" you weigh again Originally by: Khavi Vetali Oh don't worry, the goons are just as suicidal with their battleships as they are with their frigates.

sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 12:37:00 - [221] Originally by: CrispyKritters Originally by: Moonlight Express Originally by: CrispyKritters Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: James 315 Since BoB is not invincible, it must inevitably run into an opposing force that is superior. It seems to me the only reason BOB and allies will ever lose is because of their own successes. In beating virtualy every alliance of note they have or will eventualy have pushed so many refugees (for want of a better word) together that they will eventualy get to a point of stalemate. A point where the sheer numbers of hostile corps and alliances arrayed against them is just to great and a situation arises where they come to a halt, unable to push forwards but with hostiles unwilling to leave their areas to invade the real BOB and allies regions. It will not be goon, ra or any other of the child like alliances that will put a halt to BOB's and allies march across the eve universe it will be BOB and allies themseves. Although im sure goon and others will try to take the credit the fact is there never will be another alliance to rival BOB or there allies in the way they played and worked eve and who's failure will be due and only due to their successes. If you slurp a few more times like this, BoB may let you in. or you can pay a one time fee of $9.95 and the goons will let you in. ok Yup 10 bucks to join a alliance that got its butt kicked then waited til we defeated enough ppl to give them a actual chance to take and hold a few systems instead of hiding behing others skirts in a npc station. lol
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 12:43:00 - [222] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Yup 10 bucks to join a alliance that got its butt kicked then waited til we defeated enough ppl to give them a actual chance to take and hold a few systems instead of hiding behing others skirts in a npc station. lol Hey, at least with FATAL membership to an alliance that got it's "butt kicked" is free.
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 12:47:00 - [223] Originally by: Crivens Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Yup 10 bucks to join a alliance that got its butt kicked then waited til we defeated enough ppl to give them a actual chance to take and hold a few systems instead of hiding behing others skirts in a npc station. lol Hey, at least with FATAL membership to an alliance that got it's "butt kicked" is free. When was this butt kicking then bud?.
Orangir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 13:40:00 - [224] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean When was this butt kicking then bud?. Well the entire time you've owned territory in the north you've been perpetually reamed by RAZOR and company so it'd be a little hard to single out one specific incident. Let's just suffice it to say that your alliance fails at pretty much everything it attempts to do without MC support.
Orangir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 13:44:00 - [225] Originally by: Orangir Well the entire time you've owned territory in the north you've been perpetually reamed by RAZOR and company so it'd be a little hard to single out one specific incident. Let's just suffice it to say that your alliance fails at pretty much everything it attempts to do without MC support. Just to clarify, this isn't a troll. I truly believe FATAL is the worst alliance managing to hold space in all of Eve. You're simply terrible at everything you do, attempt to do, or theorycraft about doing. You'd probably failure cascade faster than M. PIRE if RAZOR put any pressure on your space, and that's saying a lot considering that the majority of M. PIRE is ex-LV.
Fendragun Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.28 13:54:00 - [226] Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Fendragun Just wanted to comment on this section. I was the person that took ATUK to Dice and into BOB. Terrible decision, and I imagine it will get undone soon. Took a bunch of fine pvpers and imo one of the best corps in the game and turn them into cannon fodder and gofers for bob. Was actually a very good decision and aloud dice to take the steps that atuk hadnt. you have no idea what it takes to run a very successful corp and as such I wont lay into you too much. EX-DICE CEO EX-ATUK Director EX-MACE CEO EX-Xanadu Officer
Murina Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 13:57:00 - [227] Originally by: Orangir Originally by: Orangir Well the entire time you've owned territory in the north you've been perpetually reamed by RAZOR and company so it'd be a little hard to single out one specific incident. Let's just suffice it to say that your alliance fails at pretty much everything it attempts to do without MC support. Just to clarify, this isn't a troll. I truly believe FATAL is the worst alliance managing to hold space in all of Eve. You're simply terrible at everything you do, attempt to do, or theorycraft about doing. You'd probably failure cascade faster than M. PIRE if RAZOR put any pressure on your space, and that's saying a lot considering that the majority of M. PIRE is ex-LV. Id say your opinion is about normal for a goon. In other words totaly nonsensical and predjudiced to a point of idiocy. And as far as getting reamed by razor or anybody else up here you are kidding yourself buddy after sending snigg and razor packing everytime they have paid us a visit over the last month we tend to go down to m-pire areas or razor space just to get a fight as they do not visit much anymore. And we realy need no lessons in holding space from ppl who need others to do it for them.
Vio Geraci Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 14:05:00 - [228] So FATAL, how's life in the drone regions? I haven't looked at a map lately, but that's where I remember you being located. Or did you move south? HMMMMMMMMM
Ogodai John The Bakhunov Family	Posted - 2007.07.28 14:13:00 - [229] Originally by: Murina And as far as getting reamed by razor or anybody else up here you are kidding yourself buddy after sending snigg and razor packing everytime they have paid us a visit over the last month we tend to go down to m-pire areas or razor space just to get a fight as they do not visit much anymore. And we realy need no lessons in holding space from ppl who need others to do it for them. Yeah, you're like, totally wtfpwning them so hard that one after the other all their allies get kicked out of their space and leave the area! Oh wai...
Murina Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 14:33:00 - [230] Edited by: Murina on 28/07/2007 14:38:28 Originally by: Vio Geraci So FATAL, how's life in the drone regions? I haven't looked at a map lately, but that's where I remember you being located. Or did you move south? HMMMMMMMMM Dunno m8 after getting paid 22bil for the outpost we built by a coalition of alliances that outnumbered our 80 man alliance over 40-1 at the time and also them making us pwomise not to come back and shoot their liccle shwips for 3 months we moved away loling our asses off. Originally by: Ogodai John Yeah, you're like, totally wtfpwning them so hard that one after the other all their allies get kicked out of their space and leave the area! Oh wai... The more they bring the more fights we get were a pvp alliance why would we want ppl who give us great fights to move away. And i do credit razor as a gr8 enemy we have had more fun battles over the last few months than we ever have had anywhere else in eve. Keep it up and keep coming i say to all razor guys your great foes and win or lose i hope you enjoy the fighting as much as we do.

KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 14:39:00 - [231] Edited by: KIATolon on 28/07/2007 14:39:54 Originally by: Fendragun Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Fendragun Just wanted to comment on this section. I was the person that took ATUK to Dice and into BOB. Terrible decision, and I imagine it will get undone soon. Took a bunch of fine pvpers and imo one of the best corps in the game and turn them into cannon fodder and gofers for bob. Was actually a very good decision and aloud dice to take the steps that atuk hadnt. you have no idea what it takes to run a very successful corp and as such I wont lay into you too much. Yeah, when I help run a corp that is responsible for kicking bob lite out of XGH, out of 9-9 (despite thol promising he would never leave until it was taken) and now out of omist and feyth I will get back to you, until then, you rule stan. OH WAI...... If anyone other than thol was in charge of dice right now it would crumble in the next 3 months. Just be thankful your second in command was FAR more competent, and FAR more hard working than you.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.28 14:45:00 - [232] Originally by: KIATolon Edited by: KIATolon on 28/07/2007 14:39:54 Originally by: Fendragun Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Fendragun Just wanted to comment on this section. I was the person that took ATUK to Dice and into BOB. Terrible decision, and I imagine it will get undone soon. Took a bunch of fine pvpers and imo one of the best corps in the game and turn them into cannon fodder and gofers for bob. Was actually a very good decision and aloud dice to take the steps that atuk hadnt. you have no idea what it takes to run a very successful corp and as such I wont lay into you too much. Yeah, when I help run a corp that is responsible for kicking bob lite out of XGH, out of 9-9 (despite thol promising he would never leave until it was taken) and now out of omist and feyth I will get back to you, until then, you rule stan. OH WAI...... If anyone other than thol was in charge of dice right now it would crumble in the next 3 months. Just be thankful your second in command was FAR more competent, and FAR more hard working than you. Goons alone did none of the above. GOONIES = OMNIPOTENCE INCARNATE
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 14:51:00 - [233] Originally by: fire 59 Edited by: fire 59 on 28/07/2007 14:49:24 Edit - nm, i think i've done more than enough sparring for one day hugs fire
Tetsujin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 15:18:00 - [234] Originally by: Fendragun you have no idea what it takes to run a very successful corp and as such I wont lay into you too much. This is probably the funniest thing on eve-o right now good work.
Fvahnqroxt Pnarzjeld GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 15:37:00 - [235] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Yup 10 bucks to join a alliance that got its butt kicked then waited til we defeated enough ppl to give them a actual chance to take and hold a few systems instead of hiding behing others skirts in a npc station. This statement and reality are in conflict.
Maksiim Doom and Gloom	Posted - 2007.07.28 15:38:00 - [236] Originally by: KIATolon Edited by: KIATolon on 28/07/2007 14:39:54 Originally by: Fendragun Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Fendragun Just wanted to comment on this section. I was the person that took ATUK to Dice and into BOB. Terrible decision, and I imagine it will get undone soon. Took a bunch of fine pvpers and imo one of the best corps in the game and turn them into cannon fodder and gofers for bob. Was actually a very good decision and aloud dice to take the steps that atuk hadnt. you have no idea what it takes to run a very successful corp and as such I wont lay into you too much. Yeah, when I help run a corp that is responsible for kicking bob lite out of XGH, out of 9-9 (despite thol promising he would never leave until it was taken) and now out of omist and feyth I will get back to you, until then, you rule stan. OH WAI...... If anyone other than thol was in charge of dice right now it would crumble in the next 3 months. Just be thankful your second in command was FAR more competent, and FAR more hard working than you. DICE > GoonFleet no contest in every aspect of EvE comfortably. But its ok Tolon, you must be weely, weely pwoud of what you have created.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 15:56:00 - [237] Edited by: HydroSan on 28/07/2007 15:55:52 When was the last time a full-scale BoB invasion got repelled? Never? I'd call that a massive victory for GoonSwarm and a crushing defeat for BoB, but what do I know, I'm haven't written an essay about it.
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 16:16:00 - [238] Originally by: Murina And we realy need no lessons in holding space from ppl who need others to do it for them. Well, we're better at it than you, at least.
Murina Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 16:20:00 - [239] Originally by: Fvahnqroxt Pnarzjeld Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Yup 10 bucks to join a alliance that got its butt kicked then waited til we defeated enough ppl to give them a actual chance to take and hold a few systems instead of hiding behing others skirts in a npc station. This statement and reality are in conflict. So to go on goon forums it does'nt cost $10? a guy from goon earlier said it does. Read below please; Originally by: Dagam Well 10 bux is to Lowtax, it lets you post on his forums and is one of the requirements for joining Goonfleet. And where did goon go after bob and buddies kicked you out of 0.0 and who are those ships you have with you flown by now your back?. lol
Murina Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 16:24:00 - [240] Originally by: Alias11 Originally by: Murina And we realy need no lessons in holding space from ppl who need others to do it for them. Well, we're better at it than you, at least. Realy?. We got paid 22bil when we lost our outpost in a war against a coalition witn over 40-1 advantage in numbers. How much did you get paid when you lost your space???.

Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 16:35:00 - [241] Edited by: Alias11 on 28/07/2007 16:36:28 Originally by: Murina Originally by: Alias11 Originally by: Murina And we realy need no lessons in holding space from ppl who need others to do it for them. Well, we're better at it than you, at least. Realy?. We got paid 22bil when we lost our outpost in a war against a coalition witn over 40-1 advantage in numbers. How much did you get paid when you lost your space???. I dunno, but I don't think we paid anything for all of your old space. Why don't you ask bob how much they got paid when we took them back? You know, I always forget that you guys ran like little girls before we started attacking LV, but I'll just allude to the fact that DICE did all the heavy lifting for you guys in the drone regions
Orangir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 16:36:00 - [242] Originally by: Murina How much did you get paid when you lost your space???. Well we sold Shrike's officer mods for like 40b total so I think we've got you beat here. Try another line of reasoning.
Fvahnqroxt Pnarzjeld GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 16:53:00 - [243] Originally by: Murina So to go on goon forums it does'nt cost $10? a guy from goon earlier said it does. Read below please; Originally by: Dagam Well 10 bux is to Lowtax, it lets you post on his forums and is one of the requirements for joining Goonfleet. And where did goon go after bob and buddies kicked you out of 0.0 and who are those ships you have with you flown by now your back?. lol There are lots of people in our alliance that aren't members of somethingawful.com. And BoB never kicked us out of 0.0 despite what their propaganda on these forums stated. He said we were "hiding behing others skirts in a npc station", which can't have anything to do with our russian overlords, since they base out of conquerable 0.0. Also, who is the "we" in his statement? It certainly wasn't FATAL alliance.
Murina Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 16:55:00 - [244] Originally by: Alias11 Edited by: Alias11 on 28/07/2007 16:34:56 Originally by: Murina Originally by: Alias11 Originally by: Murina And we realy need no lessons in holding space from ppl who need others to do it for them. Well, we're better at it than you, at least. Realy?. We got paid 22bil when we lost our outpost in a war against a coalition witn over 40-1 advantage in numbers. How much did you get paid when you lost your space???. I dunno, but I don't think we paid anything for all of your old space You know, I always forget that you guys ran like little girls before we started attacking LV, but I'll just allude to the fact that DICE did all the heavy lifting for you guys in the drone regions So your saying that 4-6 months before you attacked LV we knew you were coming and left?. LOL just LOL. And by all means check any of the numerous alliances KB from the drone regions and see if you find any DICE on them from our war lol. You should realy get your facts straight before you post a moronic claim about dice fighting for us. We hired MC to help us kill a MS and they did, they were with us for one night and left. Outbreak had about 20 sniping BS in our space for less that a week and shot some BS. And i did not ask how much goon (and the guys YOU BROUGHT with you that actualy beat LV) paid for LV space. I asked how much BOB paid you when they kicked you out of your old systems cos like i said we got 22bil for ours in the drone area if we promised not to come back for 3 months.
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 17:00:00 - [245] Originally by: Maksiim Originally by: KIATolon Edited by: KIATolon on 28/07/2007 14:39:54 Originally by: Fendragun Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Fendragun Just wanted to comment on this section. I was the person that took ATUK to Dice and into BOB. Terrible decision, and I imagine it will get undone soon. Took a bunch of fine pvpers and imo one of the best corps in the game and turn them into cannon fodder and gofers for bob. Was actually a very good decision and aloud dice to take the steps that atuk hadnt. you have no idea what it takes to run a very successful corp and as such I wont lay into you too much. Yeah, when I help run a corp that is responsible for kicking bob lite out of XGH, out of 9-9 (despite thol promising he would never leave until it was taken) and now out of omist and feyth I will get back to you, until then, you rule stan. OH WAI...... If anyone other than thol was in charge of dice right now it would crumble in the next 3 months. Just be thankful your second in command was FAR more competent, and FAR more hard working than you. DICE > GoonFleet no contest in every aspect of EvE comfortably. But its ok Tolon, you must be weely, weely pwoud of what you have created. In what way is dice better than GF? Seriously. Perhaps in it's ability to attract morons that post unsubstationable claims on eve-o. Yeah dice rock. However, in any kind of war in "eve" dice would lose to goonfleet. I think the fact dice were convinced enough they'd take 9-9 with bob's help and vowed never to leave until it was theirs... then failing miserably and pulling back, proves my point. I like dice, I really do. Dice vs gf though? They'll have a great kill to death ratio and they'll be circle jerking about it as their last station falls and their corp falls apart.
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 17:04:00 - [246] Originally by: KIATolon I like dice, I really do. Dice vs gf though? They'll have a great kill to death ratio and they'll be circle jerking about it as their last station falls and their corp falls apart. Id say GF would win but only because of the total blob they would bring and not down to any sort of skill on the part of GF cos they have none.
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 17:06:00 - [247] Edited by: Alias11 on 28/07/2007 17:07:04 Originally by: Murina So your saying that 4-6 months before you attacked LV we knew you were coming and left?. LOL just LOL. 4-6 months before we attacked LV we were attacking KOS, I'm fairly certain you guys knew. Originally by: Murina And by all means check any of the numerous alliances KB from the drone regions and see if you find any DICE on them from our war lol. You should realy get your facts straight before you post a moronic claim about dice fighting for us. I dunno, I didn't pay much attention to the war but I just remember one of my friends bragging about how tight you were with Dice and how awesome they were the whole time you were up there so I figured they came to help. Originally by: Murina And i did not ask how much goon (and the guys YOU BROUGHT with you that actualy beat LV) paid for LV space. I asked how much BOB paid you when they kicked you out of your old systems cos like i said we got 22bil for ours in the drone area if we promised not to come back for 3 months. The same price we paid when we took said stations back, why? Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: KIATolon I like dice, I really do. Dice vs gf though? They'll have a great kill to death ratio and they'll be circle jerking about it as their last station falls and their corp falls apart. Id say GF would win but only because of the total blob they would bring and not down to any sort of skill on the part of GF cos they have none. KA BLAMMO It's not my fault we're better at making friends
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 17:10:00 - [248] Originally by: Orangir Originally by: Murina How much did you get paid when you lost your space???. Well we sold Shrike's officer mods for like 40b total so I think we've got you beat here. Try another line of reasoning. Reasoning ship losses to equate to an actual payment to stay away?. How about trolling through KB's and comparing prices of all ships killed in the war since BOB or goon formed next?. Nice try at avoiding the question of how much BOB paid you but we both know you got nothing and any victories you attained were down to others leading and you making up the numbers.
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 17:12:00 - [249] Originally by: Alias11 Edited by: Alias11 on 28/07/2007 17:07:04 Originally by: Murina So your saying that 4-6 months before you attacked LV we knew you were coming and left?. LOL just LOL. 4-6 months before we attacked LV we were attacking KOS, I'm fairly certain you guys knew. Originally by: Murina And by all means check any of the numerous alliances KB from the drone regions and see if you find any DICE on them from our war lol. You should realy get your facts straight before you post a moronic claim about dice fighting for us. I dunno, I didn't pay much attention to the war but I just remember one of my friends bragging about how tight you were with Dice and how awesome they were the whole time you were up there so I figured they came to help. Originally by: Murina And i did not ask how much goon (and the guys YOU BROUGHT with you that actualy beat LV) paid for LV space. I asked how much BOB paid you when they kicked you out of your old systems cos like i said we got 22bil for ours in the drone area if we promised not to come back for 3 months. The same price we paid when we took said stations back, why? Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: KIATolon I like dice, I really do. Dice vs gf though? They'll have a great kill to death ratio and they'll be circle jerking about it as their last station falls and their corp falls apart. Id say GF would win but only because of the total blob they would bring and not down to any sort of skill on the part of GF cos they have none. KA BLAMMO It's not my fault we're better at making friends Wrong BOB and allies are just better at kicking butt and you guys are like a refugee camp for the losers.
Capt Rob Minmatar Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.28 17:14:00 - [250] interesting, i do ask why people bother in these threads?

KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 17:14:00 - [251] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Wrong BOB and allies are just better at kicking butt and you guys are like a refugee camp for the losers. Okay now I think you're a goon plant in fatal
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 17:16:00 - [252] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Wrong BOB and allies are just better at kicking butt and you guys are like a refugee camp for the losers. Interesting you calling us a refugee camp when FATAL spent something like three months living in fountain
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 17:26:00 - [253] Originally by: Alias11 Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Wrong BOB and allies are just better at kicking butt and you guys are like a refugee camp for the losers. Interesting you calling us a refugee camp when FATAL spent something like three months living in fountain Seriously, I think his corp is some kind of GIA plant. No one can be that clueless.
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 17:28:00 - [254] Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Alias11 Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Wrong BOB and allies are just better at kicking butt and you guys are like a refugee camp for the losers. Interesting you calling us a refugee camp when FATAL spent something like three months living in fountain Seriously, I think his corp is some kind of GIA plant. No one can be that clueless. JORG=GORJ=Gorge=fat=remedial. makes sense
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 17:40:00 - [255] Originally by: KIATolon Seriously, I think his corp is some kind of GIA plant. No one can be that clueless. After one of you guys sayin that Dice did all the heavy lifting in the drone regions and then getting it pointed out that they wer'nt even there id say you should educate the clueless amoung your own ranks before commenting. Originally by: alais11 I dunno, I didn't pay much attention to the war but I just remember one of my friends bragging about how tight you were with Dice and how awesome they were the whole time you were up there so I figured they came to help. I suppose in attacking me instead of the facts you hope to avoid the points made. But realy bud check who is leading FATAL before you comment on gunny or 12's opinion.
EL TITAN Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.28 17:41:00 - [256] quality is better than quantity don't forget that ;o Oh and I don't know about the rest of dice peeps, but i like the name BoB Lite. What can I say we are fat free . We are better for you overall ;o _________________________________________________ <3 hi
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 17:47:00 - [257] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: alais11 I dunno, I didn't pay much attention to the war but I just remember one of my friends bragging about how tight you were with Dice and how awesome they were the whole time you were up there so I figured they came to help. I suppose in attacking me instead of the facts you hope to avoid the points made. But realy bud check who is leading FATAL before you comment on gunny or 12's opinion. You're getting me and tolon backwards bud, you also spelled my name wrong. I said from what one of your guys was harping on how dice was awesome, I kinda figured you were getting help back then. Also I think it's pretty safe to say that you're not a pvp alliance, because a pvp alliance would rather fight than make money. You have proven you would rather make money than fight, ergo, you are an alliance of carebears
Cuddlypew GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 17:50:00 - [258] Originally by: EL TITAN quality is better than quantity don't forget that ;o Oh and I don't know about the rest of dice peeps, but i like the name BoB Lite. What can I say we are fat free . We are better for you overall ;o How's 9-9 treating you?
EL TITAN Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:02:00 - [259] Hows Nol treating you? :o _________________________________________________ <3 hi
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:04:00 - [260] Originally by: EL TITAN Hows Nol treating you? :o 1) there are no goons 2) where the hell did any goon leadership say they would be in nol?

KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:08:00 - [261] Originally by: EL TITAN quality is better than quantity don't forget that ;o Oh and I don't know about the rest of dice peeps, but i like the name BoB Lite. What can I say we are fat free . We are better for you overall ;o It depends on what you call quality. I would say our quality for inclusion of everyone, from 4 year vet to 2 day old noob on any op is FAR greater than yours. I would say the quality of our understanding of the different ways goons want to play this game is in excess of you. TBH, I would say that our quality of teamwork, circlejerking and demonising of the enemy FAR exceeds yours. Quality? In what sense? You kill more ships, we kill more POS. By that standard you'll be living in empire with your rockonSOLID kill to death ratio while we inhabit all your space. Not particularly a good scenario when molle said he'd control all of 0.0?
Maksiim Doom and Gloom	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:09:00 - [262] Originally by: KIATolon In what way is dice better than GF? Seriously. Perhaps in it's ability to attract morons that post unsubstationable claims on eve-o. Yeah dice rock. However, in any kind of war in "eve" dice would lose to goonfleet. I think the fact dice were convinced enough they'd take 9-9 with bob's help and vowed never to leave until it was theirs... then failing miserably and pulling back, proves my point. I like dice, I really do. Dice vs gf though? They'll have a great kill to death ratio and they'll be circle jerking about it as their last station falls and their corp falls apart. Piffle, they have a titan, they have more space than you, they have better industry, pilots and leaders with wit. You scream victory, its like having your house reprossesed then moving a bunch of tramps in and claiming its yours again.
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:10:00 - [263] Originally by: Alias11 Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: alais11 I dunno, I didn't pay much attention to the war but I just remember one of my friends bragging about how tight you were with Dice and how awesome they were the whole time you were up there so I figured they came to help. I suppose in attacking me instead of the facts you hope to avoid the points made. But realy bud check who is leading FATAL before you comment on gunny or 12's opinion. You're getting me and tolon backwards bud, you also spelled my name wrong. I said from what one of your guys was harping on how dice was awesome, I kinda figured you were getting help back then. Also I think it's pretty safe to say that you're not a pvp alliance, because a pvp alliance would rather fight than make money. You have proven you would rather make money than fight, ergo, you are an alliance of carebears As you already and to be honest suprised me by actualy admiting you were wrong about dice helping us id suggest you check the reports on the war in ym- before you make another factual error about us rather making money than fighting. Il not go into details of how long we fought or what we were reduced to fighting with or how many we faced but if you had been there you would not consider us a carebear alliance.
Martin VanBuren GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:12:00 - [264] Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: EL TITAN Hows Nol treating you? :o 1) there are no goons 2) where the hell did any goon leadership say they would be in nol? Dude maybe you stopped our offensive cold and are now taking back space BUT YOU HAVEN'T WON COMPLETELY HOW YOU LIKE THAT
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:18:00 - [265] Originally by: Maksiim Originally by: KIATolon In what way is dice better than GF? Seriously. Perhaps in it's ability to attract morons that post unsubstationable claims on eve-o. Yeah dice rock. However, in any kind of war in "eve" dice would lose to goonfleet. I think the fact dice were convinced enough they'd take 9-9 with bob's help and vowed never to leave until it was theirs... then failing miserably and pulling back, proves my point. I like dice, I really do. Dice vs gf though? They'll have a great kill to death ratio and they'll be circle jerking about it as their last station falls and their corp falls apart. Piffle, they have a titan, they have more space than you, they have better industry, pilots and leaders with wit. You scream victory, its like having your house reprossesed then moving a bunch of tramps in and claiming its yours again. If they have such great industry why do so many of their POS's go offline compared with our...none. Dice dont hold more space than goonfleet.
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:24:00 - [266] Originally by: Maksiim Piffle, they have a titan, they have more space than you, they have better industry, pilots and leaders with wit. You scream victory, its like having your house reprossesed then moving a bunch of tramps in and claiming its yours again. Still our house, and now we have all these awesome hobos living with us
Qece GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:25:00 - [267] Originally by: EL TITAN quality is better than quantity don't forget that ;o Did my Mother tell you that because, seriously, she's a lying f*cking ho-bag.
Maksiim Doom and Gloom	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:41:00 - [268] Originally by: KIATolon If they have such great industry why do so many of their POS's go offline compared with our...none. Dice dont hold more space than goonfleet. Are you seriously suggesting a Goon POS has never run out of fuel.... DICE are in the most successful alliance in the game they hold over TWICE the number of outposts you do. You ever considered that when a Goon buys some T2 ships in empire a lot of the time BoB corps and associates are profiting. Then they get to blow them up, its a win win situation.
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:43:00 - [269] no Dice dont hold twice the number of outposts that Goonfleet does.
Maksiim Doom and Gloom	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:44:00 - [270] Originally by: KIATolon no Dice dont hold twice the number of outposts that Goonfleet does. Yes they do, as part of the most successful alliance in game they hold OVER TWICE the number of outposts you do.

Ariella Macha Pulsar Productions Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:45:00 - [271] Originally by: Maksiim You ever considered that when a Goon buys some T2 ships in empire a lot of the time BoB corps and associates are profiting. Then they get to blow them up, its a win win situation. Goons only fly T1 frigates though, you must be thinking of someone else.
Begall GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:46:00 - [272] Originally by: Maksiim Originally by: KIATolon no Dice dont hold twice the number of outposts that Goonfleet does. Yes they do, as part of the most successful alliance in game they hold OVER TWICE the number of outposts you do. Heh, like anyone would trust DICE to run a Station (or a small POS). Your signature was inappropriate, email [email protected] to find out why (don't forget to include a link to it) -Sahwoolo
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:47:00 - [273] Originally by: Maksiim Originally by: KIATolon no Dice dont hold twice the number of outposts that Goonfleet does. Yes they do, as part of the most successful alliance in game they hold OVER TWICE the number of outposts you do. we're not talking about bob, we're talking about goonfleet versus dice
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:49:00 - [274] Originally by: Maksiim Originally by: KIATolon no Dice dont hold twice the number of outposts that Goonfleet does. Yes they do, as part of the most successful alliance in game they hold OVER TWICE the number of outposts you do. No Dice hold 3 Goonfleet hold 11 This is about dice and goonfleet, not dice's buddies vs goonfleets buddies, however if you wanna go there: RSF holds more than bob.
iiOs Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:52:00 - [275] omg look, i have an outpost....yay...lol ---------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- BB
Maksiim Doom and Gloom	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:54:00 - [276] Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Maksiim Originally by: KIATolon no Dice dont hold twice the number of outposts that Goonfleet does. Yes they do, as part of the most successful alliance in game they hold OVER TWICE the number of outposts you do. No Dice hold 3 Goonfleet hold 11 This is about dice and goonfleet, not dice's buddies vs goonfleets buddies, however if you wanna go there: RSF holds more than bob. Ah right, so about 6 alliances hold more space than what? one? Seriously you let that head get any bigger its going to pop, then you will be weely, weely sad.
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:55:00 - [277] Originally by: iiOs omg look, i have an outpost....yay...lol I have eleven, one for every toe! oh god, my secret... it's out
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:55:00 - [278] Edited by: Alias11 on 28/07/2007 18:55:57 Originally by: Maksiim Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Maksiim Originally by: KIATolon no Dice dont hold twice the number of outposts that Goonfleet does. Yes they do, as part of the most successful alliance in game they hold OVER TWICE the number of outposts you do. No Dice hold 3 Goonfleet hold 11 This is about dice and goonfleet, not dice's buddies vs goonfleets buddies, however if you wanna go there: RSF holds more than bob. Ah right, so about 6 alliances hold more space than what? one? Seriously you let that head get any bigger its going to pop, then you will be weely, weely sad. Bob probably counts as seven after going highlander on ASCN, LV, XELAS, FIX, and D-L
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:57:00 - [279] Originally by: Maksiim Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Maksiim Originally by: KIATolon no Dice dont hold twice the number of outposts that Goonfleet does. Yes they do, as part of the most successful alliance in game they hold OVER TWICE the number of outposts you do. No Dice hold 3 Goonfleet hold 11 This is about dice and goonfleet, not dice's buddies vs goonfleets buddies, however if you wanna go there: RSF holds more than bob. Ah right, so about 6 alliances hold more space than what? one? Seriously you let that head get any bigger its going to pop, then you will be weely, weely sad. So is this a discussion about dice and GF or BoB and RSF, because either way we have more outposts than you, and are therefore more virile, attractive to ladies and can maintain an erection for longer. We also have larger ******* and increased vitality.
Maksiim Doom and Gloom	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:59:00 - [280] Originally by: Alias11 Bob probably counts as seven after going highlander on ASCN, LV, and D-L Probably Winning? Not even close.

Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 19:03:00 - [281] Originally by: Maksiim Originally by: Alias11 Bob probably counts as seven after going highlander on ASCN, LV, and D-L Probably Winning? Not even close. I quite literally have no idea what he is trying to say here, can someone help me out?
Maksiim Doom and Gloom	Posted - 2007.07.28 19:05:00 - [282] Originally by: Alias11 I quite literally have no idea what he is trying to say here, can someone help me out? I will spell it out for you. Your not winning.
Lizhia Gallente Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.07.28 19:05:00 - [283] Edited by: Lizhia on 28/07/2007 19:05:35 Originally by: Alias11 Originally by: Maksiim Originally by: Alias11 Bob probably counts as seven after going highlander on ASCN, LV, and D-L Probably Winning? Not even close. I quite literally have no idea what he is trying to say here, can someone help me out? K/D ratio
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 19:35:00 - [284] well yeah I got that he's saying we're not winning but the "Probably? " threw me for a loop seriously what the hell is that?
Orangir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 19:54:00 - [285] Originally by: Maksiim Originally by: Alias11 I quite literally have no idea what he is trying to say here, can someone help me out? I will spell it out for you. Your not winning. I will spell it out for you: Y O U ' R E.
Vio Geraci Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 20:05:00 - [286] This thread is now about being a bob member and twalking wike a baybeee.
Maksiim Doom and Gloom	Posted - 2007.07.28 20:22:00 - [287] Don't change the subject. And its 'You are', you nubs.
iiOs Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.28 20:23:00 - [288] Edited by: iiOs on 28/07/2007 20:24:47 is this monkey thread? ---------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- BB
Flow Befort GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 20:28:00 - [289] k/d ratio was more entertaining then outposts, can we go back to that? tia
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 20:28:00 - [290] Originally by: Maksiim Don't change the subject. And its 'You are', you nubs. I'm still trying to find out what "Probably" means

Vio Geraci Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 20:49:00 - [291] Originally by: Maksiim Don't change the subject. And its 'You are', you nubs. It's 'it's' not its, grammar nooblet.
Maksiim Doom and Gloom	Posted - 2007.07.28 20:57:00 - [292] Originally by: KIATolon No Dice hold 3 Goonfleet hold 11 This is about dice and goonfleet, not dice's buddies vs goonfleets buddies, however if you wanna go there: RSF holds more than bob. Way off topic but lets have a little look at the numbers shall we. DICE - 3 Outposts - 495 members - 165 people per outpost. GoonFleet - 11 Outposts - 2447 members - 222.46 people per outpost. They have more space per person than you do and you are the biggest corp in game, such a shame you are so poor at everything that does not involve being large. Despite being a fifth your size they managed to build a titan, something of which you have so far completely failed to do. Resorting to picking apart posts for spelling and grammar is very weak sause, try harder.
Popperr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 21:04:00 - [293] Originally by: Maksiim Originally by: KIATolon No Dice hold 3 Goonfleet hold 11 This is about dice and goonfleet, not dice's buddies vs goonfleets buddies, however if you wanna go there: RSF holds more than bob. Way off topic but lets have a little look at the numbers shall we. DICE - 3 Outposts - 495 members - 165 people per outpost. GoonFleet - 11 Outposts - 2447 members - 222.46 people per outpost. They have more space per person than you do and you are the biggest corp in game, such a shame you are so poor at everything that does not involve being large. Despite being a fifth your size they managed to build a titan, something of which you have so far completely failed to do. Resorting to picking apart posts for spelling and grammar is very weak sause, try harder. Now just multiply that by the time we've spent in game aqquiring those resources. I guess you'd have to count the total collapse of every empire atuk was involved with though and kind of work that out as a variable.
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 21:07:00 - [294] Originally by: Maksiim Way off topic but lets have a little look at the numbers shall we. DICE - 3 Outposts - 495 members - 165 people per outpost. GoonFleet - 11 Outposts - 2447 members - 222.46 people per outpost. Resorting to picking apart posts for spelling and grammar is very weak sause, try harder. My station:member-count ratio! How many did dice hold when they were ATUK ?
Maksiim Doom and Gloom	Posted - 2007.07.28 21:09:00 - [295] Who's talking about history? Right now they have more space per man than the largest corp in game and are a long, long way from losing it.
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 21:11:00 - [296] Originally by: Maksiim DICE - 3 Outposts - 495 members - 165 people per outpost. GoonFleet - 11 Outposts - 2447 members - 222.46 people per outpost. Resorting to picking apart posts for spelling and grammar is very weak sause, try harder. (sauce) You know 165 is a pretty interesting number because just by coincidence it also happens to be the number of disparate individuals who have logged onto and flown the orange species' titan.
Martin VanBuren GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 21:15:00 - [297] Originally by: Maksiim Originally by: KIATolon No Dice hold 3 Goonfleet hold 11 This is about dice and goonfleet, not dice's buddies vs goonfleets buddies, however if you wanna go there: RSF holds more than bob. Way off topic but lets have a little look at the numbers shall we. DICE - 3 Outposts - 495 members - 165 people per outpost. GoonFleet - 11 Outposts - 2447 members - 222.46 people per outpost. They have more space per person than you do and you are the biggest corp in game, such a shame you are so poor at everything that does not involve being large. Despite being a fifth your size they managed to build a titan, something of which you have so far completely failed to do. Resorting to picking apart posts for spelling and grammar is very weak sause, try harder. But if you were to introduce the hanging chads variable while overheating the denominator, it is clear that the RSF has a superior poll-tax inducement ratio on a per member contextual scale as compared to the DICE corporation.
Maksiim Doom and Gloom	Posted - 2007.07.28 21:16:00 - [298] Originally by: Crivens Originally by: Maksiim DICE - 3 Outposts - 495 members - 165 people per outpost. GoonFleet - 11 Outposts - 2447 members - 222.46 people per outpost. Resorting to picking apart posts for spelling and grammar is very weak sause, try harder. (sauce) You know 165 is a pretty interesting number because just by coincidence it also happens to be the number of disparate individuals who have logged onto and flown the orange species' titan. If you have proof of this I am sure CCP will be very interested to see that. If not why don't you stop bleating about it and I dunno, build one?
Dramaticus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 21:20:00 - [299] Martin VanBuren, if you were still President of the United States would you have Maksiim declared an enemy combatant and sent to Guantanamo Bay?
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 21:25:00 - [300] Originally by: Maksiim If you have proof of this I am sure CCP will be very interested to see that. If not why don't you stop bleating about it and I dunno, build one? DICE have a titan, GF doesn't :( edit: Oh wait we have 9-9 despite DICE's titan and bobs 3 other titans. editx2: bob's 2x other titans now

Vio Geraci Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 22:44:00 - [301] Originally by: Maksiim Way off topic but lets have a little look at the numbers shall we. DICE - 3 Outposts - 495 members - 165 people per outpost. GoonFleet - 11 Outposts - 2447 members - 222.46 people per outpost. While it's impossible to get actual numbers for this, which group do you suppose has a higher rate of outposts per mean days spent playing this game? Or more outposts per pound of player weight? Either way I think goonswarm is winning yet again.
Martin VanBuren GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 22:51:00 - [302] Originally by: Dramaticus Martin VanBuren, if you were still President of the United States would you have Maksiim declared an enemy combatant and sent to Guantanamo Bay? If I were still president I would remove forever the Canadian threat from our Northern Border and move to secure our western territories from roaming Apaches and Sioux.
Attak Trioptimum FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 22:56:00 - [303] Originally by: Vio Geraci outposts per pound of player weight? You're lucky Remedial left.
LeBelInconnu GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.07.28 23:11:00 - [304] Huh. Looks like I didn't miss anything important. Guess it was a bad idea to post an actual opinion to a thread that started out with thought behind it. Looks like everyone prefers to puff chest for 11 pages and enemies only respond to Goons whose opinions are clearly designed to taunt them, calling anyone else alts. Fine. Goons are amazing and when my Min Frig V finishes training in 2 days all our enemies will be doomed....doomed. Are ya happy now?
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.29 00:41:00 - [305] Originally by: LeBelInconnu Huh. Looks like I didn't miss anything important. Guess it was a bad idea to post an actual opinion to a thread that started out with thought behind it. Looks like everyone prefers to puff chest for 11 pages and enemies only respond to Goons whose opinions are clearly designed to taunt them, calling anyone else alts. Fine. Goons are amazing and when my Min Frig V finishes training in 2 days all our enemies will be doomed....doomed. Are ya happy now? What a surprise, you're sponsored. No one cares about your opinion, and stop whining. Never post on eve-o again. Are YOU Happy now?
Cringeley GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.29 01:47:00 - [306] Originally by: Crivens (sauce) You know 165 is a pretty interesting number because just by coincidence it also happens to be the number of disparate individuals who have logged onto and flown the orange species' titan. Trivia: This is why the aperture of the doomsday device is known as the "glory hole".
Bullitnutz Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.29 02:48:00 - [307]
Achaiah Black Bag Ops	Posted - 2007.07.29 03:22:00 - [308] Where is the click ?
Superbus Maximus Gallente Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.29 03:45:00 - [309] Edited by: Superbus Maximus on 29/07/2007 03:44:59 Originally by: Murina Originally by: Orangir Originally by: Orangir Well the entire time you've owned territory in the north you've been perpetually reamed by RAZOR and company so it'd be a little hard to single out one specific incident. Let's just suffice it to say that your alliance fails at pretty much everything it attempts to do without MC support. Just to clarify, this isn't a troll. I truly believe FATAL is the worst alliance managing to hold space in all of Eve. You're simply terrible at everything you do, attempt to do, or theorycraft about doing. You'd probably failure cascade faster than M. PIRE if RAZOR put any pressure on your space, and that's saying a lot considering that the majority of M. PIRE is ex-LV. Id say your opinion is about normal for a goon. In other words totaly nonsensical and predjudiced to a point of idiocy. And as far as getting reamed by razor or anybody else up here you are kidding yourself buddy after sending snigg and razor packing everytime they have paid us a visit over the last month we tend to go down to m-pire areas or razor space just to get a fight as they do not visit much anymore. And we realy need no lessons in holding space from ppl who need others to do it for them. Fo Fo Fo is all I got to say about that look at your losses on your kb against us.
Nova Cygni GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.29 06:09:00 - [310] this thread is a piece of ****.

Wigglytuff Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.29 17:22:00 - [311] Originally by: Orangir Originally by: Orangir Well the entire time you've owned territory in the north you've been perpetually reamed by RAZOR and company so it'd be a little hard to single out one specific incident. Let's just suffice it to say that your alliance fails at pretty much everything it attempts to do without MC support. Just to clarify, this isn't a troll. I truly believe FATAL is the worst alliance managing to hold space in all of Eve. You're simply terrible at everything you do, attempt to do, or theorycraft about doing. You'd probably failure cascade faster than M. PIRE if RAZOR put any pressure on your space, and that's saying a lot considering that the majority of M. PIRE is ex-LV. Whereas Goonswarm has managed everything on its own, and would still be where they are without RA's help? Goonswarm reminds me of China. Skill isn't important, you can just throw wave after wave of ships at a target and 'win' even if your losses are several times higher. Belt piracy isnt what it used to be.
Begall GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.29 17:27:00 - [312] Originally by: Wigglytuff Goonswarm reminds me of China. Skill isn't important, you can just throw wave after wave of ships at a target and 'win' even if your losses are several times higher. Why have you put win in ' marks? Are you suggesting that LV/-V- won while GS only 'won' ?
Orangir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.29 17:35:00 - [313] Originally by: Wigglytuff Whereas Goonswarm has managed everything on its own, and would still be where they are without RA's help? What the Christ are you talking about? Goonswarm acknowledges that our Russian and French allies are awesome on a daily basis.
Orangir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.29 17:39:00 - [314] Originally by: Orangir What the Christ are you talking about? Goonswarm acknowledges that our Russian and French allies are awesome on a daily basis. Preemptive "hahaha keep fellating ur russian masters u goonie pet n00b run a complex yet? MEATSCHILDS u suuuuuuuuck" post.
Wigglytuff Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.29 17:49:00 - [315] Originally by: Orangir Originally by: Wigglytuff Whereas Goonswarm has managed everything on its own, and would still be where they are without RA's help? What the Christ are you talking about? Goonswarm acknowledges that our Russian and French allies are awesome on a daily basis. Then don't talk about how much other alliances suck due to not having allies to keep them alive. My point was Goonswarm wouldn't be where they are without said allies. Begall: A chinese leader told the Us once that if they ever fought, it didn't matter if the US killed 10x as many as they lost, because they'd still lose. I see Goonswarm being like that, Throwing hundreds of ships to their deaths, killing a few dozen, but 'winning' the fight because of their size. Belt piracy isnt what it used to be.
Orangir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.29 17:56:00 - [316] Originally by: Wigglytuff Then don't talk about how much other alliances suck due to not having allies to keep them alive. My point was Goonswarm wouldn't be where they are without said allies. And my point was that FATAL wouldn't be anywhere at all without MC because they're a terrible alliance, whereas Goonswarm can actually accomplish some tasks on its own. (see: retaking of 9-9 and XGH)
Murina Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 02:00:00 - [317] Originally by: Orangir Originally by: Wigglytuff Then don't talk about how much other alliances suck due to not having allies to keep them alive. My point was Goonswarm wouldn't be where they are without said allies. And my point was that FATAL wouldn't be anywhere at all without MC because they're a terrible alliance, whereas Goonswarm can actually accomplish some tasks on its own. (see: retaking of 9-9 and XGH) Comments about FATAL or any other alliance being good or bad by the blobswarm is a joke. How would a member of a alliance that prides itself on totaly out blobing to take a system and or crashing the node to defend a system even begin to know what makes a good alliance. We would wipe the floor with you if the numbers were anywhere near close or even 2-1 and so would any other alliance in eve. Goon are by far the worst alliance in eve and it would be a better place without you and your enjoyment ruining and unimaginitive style of play.
Seredith GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.30 03:23:00 - [318] Originally by: Murina Originally by: Orangir Originally by: Wigglytuff Then don't talk about how much other alliances suck due to not having allies to keep them alive. My point was Goonswarm wouldn't be where they are without said allies. And my point was that FATAL wouldn't be anywhere at all without MC because they're a terrible alliance, whereas Goonswarm can actually accomplish some tasks on its own. (see: retaking of 9-9 and XGH) Comments about FATAL or any other alliance being good or bad by the blobswarm is a joke. How would a member of a alliance that prides itself on totaly out blobing to take a system and or crashing the node to defend a system even begin to know what makes a good alliance. We would wipe the floor with you if the numbers were anywhere near close or even 2-1 and so would any other alliance in eve. Goon are by far the worst alliance in eve and it would be a better place without you and your enjoyment ruining and unimaginitive style of play. Posting in a thread of self-aggrandizement, circular reasoning and willful ignorance. Who says CAOD isn't entertaining?
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:34:00 - [319] James 315, your writing style resembles the style of Richard Dawkins' a lot. And not only because he likes to start chapters with quotes. If you are not familiar with his work, I heartily recommend The God Delusion[/. In any case, while I much enjoy reading your speculation, I am saddened by the lack of evidence and support for the claims you make. Also, your claim to unbias is not very believable. Some of your analysis is insightful, or even [i]spot on, but many assumptions leave me waiting on further elaboration and a more objective research of matters. ---
Orangir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:40:00 - [320] Edited by: Orangir on 30/07/2007 13:40:18 Originally by: Murina Comments about FATAL or any other alliance being good or bad by the blobswarm is a joke. How would a member of a alliance that prides itself on totaly out blobing to take a system and or crashing the node to defend a system even begin to know what makes a good alliance. We would wipe the floor with you if the numbers were anywhere near close or even 2-1 and so would any other alliance in eve. Goon are by far the worst alliance in eve and it would be a better place without you and your enjoyment ruining and unimaginitive style of play. Does this mean you don't like us? Because I think you're terrible but I still like your alliance, you're kind of quaint and I think it's nice that when everyone is so serious about Eve these days we can still think of FATAL and crack a smile and maybe even laugh a little.

Johnny ReeRee The ReeRee Brigade	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:44:00 - [321] Edited by: Johnny ReeRee on 30/07/2007 13:44:46 Originally by: Orangir Originally by: Orangir What the Christ are you talking about? Goonswarm acknowledges that our Russian and French allies are awesome on a daily basis. Preemptive "hahaha keep fellating ur russian masters u goonie pet n00b run a complex yet? MEATSCHILDS u suuuuuuuuck" post. Hey goonie pet -- RA let you run a complex yet? Yeah, I didn't think so. Meatshield. I find it all terribly amusing, in a detached, ironic way. I'm way more ironically amused than you, so I win.
Fendragun Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:46:00 - [322] Originally by: Jin Entres James 315, your writing style resembles the style of Richard Dawkins' a lot. And not only because he likes to start chapters with quotes. If you are not familiar with his work, I heartily recommend The God Delusion[/. In any case, while I much enjoy reading your speculation, I am saddened by the lack of evidence and support for the claims you make. Also, your claim to unbias is not very believable. Some of your analysis is insightful, or even [i]spot on, but many assumptions leave me waiting on further elaboration and a more objective research of matters. Read some of the book, didnt like it. The man needs to open up to some things, that and drink some more EX-DICE CEO EX-ATUK Director EX-MACE CEO EX-Xanadu Officer
Ravysa Delorean Amarr Torro Negro Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:47:00 - [323] I hope BoB and Goons lose.
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:49:00 - [324] Originally by: Ravysa Delorean I hope BoB and Goons lose. Honestly, I think that would be awesome.
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:53:00 - [325] Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Ravysa Delorean I hope BoB and Goons lose. Honestly, I think that would be awesome. /signed
Liu Kaskakka PAK	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:59:00 - [326] my dads thorax is bigger than your dads King Liu is RIGHT!!
JenDen Caldari The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2007.07.30 20:28:00 - [327] Originally by: Ravysa Delorean I hope BoB and Goons lose. Gotta take credit for GoonFleet, they win at least because of their youtube videos. Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.07.30 20:34:00 - [328] Originally by: Orangir Just to clarify, this isn't a troll. I truly believe FATAL is the worst alliance managing to hold space in all of Eve. You're simply terrible at everything you do, attempt to do, or theorycraft about doing. Wrong. This award goes to KoS and everyone knows it. I honestly can't think of another alliance that is even close to being as terrible as KoS. RISE Recruitment Thread
Gentle Glide Silent Scream	Posted - 2007.07.31 04:14:00 - [329] Originally by: Murina Originally by: Orangir Originally by: Wigglytuff Then don't talk about how much other alliances suck due to not having allies to keep them alive. My point was Goonswarm wouldn't be where they are without said allies. And my point was that FATAL wouldn't be anywhere at all without MC because they're a terrible alliance, whereas Goonswarm can actually accomplish some tasks on its own. (see: retaking of 9-9 and XGH) Comments about FATAL or any other alliance being good or bad by the blobswarm is a joke. How would a member of a alliance that prides itself on totaly out blobing to take a system and or crashing the node to defend a system even begin to know what makes a good alliance. We would wipe the floor with you if the numbers were anywhere near close or even 2-1 and so would any other alliance in eve. Goon are by far the worst alliance in eve and it would be a better place without you and your enjoyment ruining and unimaginitive style of play. Im a pirate, making me completly unbias'd in this. But check this out, your an idiot. Goonfleet while comprimised of noobs and up and coming players, has the skills incoming. There getting better. And your getting scared. Goonfleet would BBQ Fatal and i know it because my best friend IRL's charecter is in Fatal. Goonfleet is good at Eve. and they dont care about loosing ships, there morale is so high and that makes them even more dangerous because they wont just say "This sucks im leaving" like LV/V did (which if im not mistaken comprises most of your alliance?) get over it stop making yourself look closed minded and stupid. BoB has found its match. GL to all involved, come through rancer
Lucian Sulla Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.07.31 05:24:00 - [330] Originally by: Martin VanBuren Originally by: Dramaticus Martin VanBuren, if you were still President of the United States would you have Maksiim declared an enemy combatant and sent to Guantanamo Bay? If I were still president I would remove forever the Canadian threat from our Northern Border and move to secure our western territories from roaming Apaches and Sioux. Props for references to Manifest Destiny. If we can figure what the EVE equivalent of Oklahoma is, then "encourage" the GBC to move there, the analogy will be perfect!

Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 13:33:00 - [331] Originally by: Ravysa Delorean I hope BoB and Goons lose. Four months after we stop being threatened with extinction we'll collapse in a giant pile of drama
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 14:10:00 - [332] Originally by: Gentle Glide Im a pirate, making me completly unbias'd in this. But check this out, your an idiot. Goonfleet while comprimised of noobs and up and coming players, has the skills incoming. There getting better. And your getting scared. Goonfleet would BBQ Fatal and i know it because my best friend IRL's charecter is in Fatal. Goonfleet is good at Eve. and they dont care about loosing ships, there morale is so high and that makes them even more dangerous because they wont just say "This sucks im leaving" like LV/V did (which if im not mistaken comprises most of your alliance?) get over it stop making yourself look closed minded and stupid. BoB has found its match. GL to all involved, come through rancer How does anybody in eve get scared? its not like we realy die buddy as the blobs we now face show. And as far as them getting more skilled, nope again bud they are just getting more numbers and the state of the game suits their style at present with all the desynch. Goon runs the blob its that simple. But i agree its the numbers that count in eve not skill or know how so yes the numbers and their blob makes them "good at eve". And BOB did not meet its match it created it by beating every large alliance in the game for ages. They gathered up and the result is the huge blobs we now see. Now i do not blame goon or any of the others for doing this because its the natural order of any situation and if you check the history books its happened to every empire in history, Greek, Roman, British we all beat so many and made so many enemies we eventualy could'nt contain them and got pushed out by sheer force of numbers. But that eventuality is down to the skill of BOB and its allies by beating so many not the skill of the blobs they now face. If you cannot see that it is you who is the close minded idiot who looks stupid.
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 14:49:00 - [333] Okay, I will say this again, and it will probably fall on deaf ears. 1) we've spent a fair chunk of time with number inferiority in the past, and will do in the future. 2) We have more people because we have very experienced people in an aspect of pvp. People management. Some of our directors are expects at forging and MAINTAINING relationships, and that's why we can bring more to the fight. It's all pvp.
Murina Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 16:18:00 - [334] Edited by: Murina on 31/07/2007 16:19:01 Originally by: KIATolon Okay, I will say this again, and it will probably fall on deaf ears. 1) we've spent a fair chunk of time with number inferiority in the past, and will do in the future. 2) We have more people because we have very experienced people in an aspect of pvp. People management. Some of our directors are expects at forging and MAINTAINING relationships, and that's why we can bring more to the fight. It's all pvp. I hear everything you have said. I do remember when you had "less" numbers because you lost. (but then you are also one of the few alliances in eve that have lost when you had more) And its easy to maintain and forge relationships when your recruiting ppl who just or in the past got there asses handed to them by the guys you want them to fight. And creating a titanic blob is not an aspect of pvp or a skill it is an abuse of it. But like he said it happened in the history of the planet and its happening now in eve and will happen again if we get pushed together just like we did to you. Its like a wave in a bath tub it hits a point of maximum density at one end and it has no choice but to push back. Enjoy your time at the front of the wave if you understand the concept then pretty soon it will be you losing ground as soon as it hits the end of the tub.
Hexman The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.07.31 16:43:00 - [335] I think the best part of this post is the ensuing debate and not the OP's content. after reading a bit of all the rabblerabble and trolling in the last 9-or so pages, I'll just limit myself to one comment. The OP was doing ok in the previous posts, until this last one, which contains more bias and assumptions than facts and real analisys. The point at which I said "ok this has lost all value" is when he says "Goons are fighting for freedom..." !?? I'm not for or against either side here...but I mean, it's a game. Goons don't fight for freedom or any higher-principles (even if the propganda says so). They fight because it's fun, and it feeds their e-peen to beat BoB. Maybe they even hate BoB a bit. But that's it. On the other side, BoB fights not for the "endgame"...it fights, I think, purely for e-peen. Maybe I'm wrong, but the point is that "fighting for freedom" sounded too clichT and waaaaay out of context. Yarr!
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 17:27:00 - [336] Originally by: Murina But like he said it happened in the history of the planet and its happening now in eve and will happen again if we get pushed together just like we did to you. Its like a wave in a bath tub it hits a point of maximum density at one end and it has no choice but to push back. So it's like a pendulum ?
Murina Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 17:57:00 - [337] Edited by: Murina on 31/07/2007 17:59:30 Originally by: Crivens Originally by: Murina But like he said it happened in the history of the planet and its happening now in eve and will happen again if we get pushed together just like we did to you. Its like a wave in a bath tub it hits a point of maximum density at one end and it has no choice but to push back. So it's like a pendulum ? Nope a pendulum relies on inertia and gravity it does not create an oposing force with its own movment that eventualy pushes it back as BOB did with you guys. Think of it as squeezing somthing into a small space that cannot be poped (as eve cannot) eventualy it becomes so compact the force it generates is greater that the force you can apply to keep it contained. BOB pushed you ascn and god knows how many others back into a smaller area than you were in one at a time. You then got together. And as a huge compact entity you have tremendous force as you break out, and BOB and allies now having to cover the space you were removed from no longer have the numbers in one place to keep you bottled up. But the more area you expand into and need to cover the less force or "squirty" as my 4yr old niece calls it (she is here atm and im trying to explain as i type sori) you have. Until eventualy you either find a point of rest and the war stalls or you push BOB into the same position you were in and they then "squirty" you. Unless eve create a genocide gun that totaly kills your character then this will always be the case as nobody can actualy remove another from the game. So all we end up doing is creating oposing forces every time we win a war or become successful.
Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 18:26:00 - [338] So what I'm getting from this thread is that having superior numbers is in fact a noobie exploit and in no way a valid tactic that has been in use for as long as our race has existed.
Popperr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 18:33:00 - [339] Originally by: Relaria Hossin So what I'm getting from this thread is that having superior numbers is in fact a noobie exploit and in no way a valid tactic that has been in use for as long as our race has existed. Exactly, after all the soco had superior numbers but they were too honorable to destroy redswarm utterly and remove us from their stations. They were also far too respectful of each other to coordinate and instead sold each other out one by one.
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 19:14:00 - [340] Originally by: Relaria Hossin So what I'm getting from this thread is that having superior numbers is in fact a noobie exploit and in no way a valid tactic that has been in use for as long as our race has existed. There is nothing tactical about a blob it is just a unfortunate result of to much success.

Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 19:34:00 - [341] Edited by: Relaria Hossin on 31/07/2007 19:34:16 Tactics are not limited to how well you fit and fly your personal ship. Tactics encompasses all aspects of warfare including the gathering and organizing of warm bodies to do the fighting. If you are being out-blobbed as you put it, there are many solutions including but not limited to recruiting more people to fight for your side. Goonswarm's "secret" to it's numbers is actually not a secret at all. The main source of pilots are people who have never even played EVE before. We recruit these new players, give them ships, move them to 0.0 space and begin teaching them how to be a useful pilot in PvP from their very first day as a member. The result of this method of recruitment is easily apparent if you take a look at how Goonswarm has started and how far it's members have come. We have people who were flying frigates in Syndicate who now field Dreadnoughts for our capital fleet. Throughout their entire time in EVE these players have been in the deep end of EVE, PvPing with players who have been playing for months and even years longer than they have. If you're being outnumbered by people who are recruiting more people to the game and training them from newbies, the obvious solution is to step up recruitment yourselves. I fully endorse people recruiting more newbies into EVE regardless what corporation is doing it because in the end the winner will be EVE itself.
Moon Kitten GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 19:41:00 - [342] Edited by: Moon Kitten on 31/07/2007 19:42:13 Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: Relaria Hossin So what I'm getting from this thread is that having superior numbers is in fact a noobie exploit and in no way a valid tactic that has been in use for as long as our race has existed. There is nothing tactical about a blob it is just a unfortunate result of to much success. Superiority of numbers is in tactics, as well as in strategy, the most general principle of victory, and shall be examined by us first in its generality, for which we may be permitted the following exposition: Strategy fixes the point where, the time when, and the numerical force with which the battle is to be fought. By this triple determination it has therefore a very essential influence on the issue of the combat. If tactics has fought the battle, if the result is over, let it be victory or defeat, strategy makes such use of it as can be made in accordance with the great object of the war. This object of the war is naturally often a very distant one, seldom does it lie quite close at hand. A series of other objects subordinate themselves to it as means. These objects, which are at the same time means to a higher object, may be practically of various kinds; even the ultimate aim of the whole war is a different one in every war. We shall make ourselves acquainted with these things according as we become acquainted with the separate objects which they come in contact with; and it is not our intention here to embrace the whole subject by a complete enumeration of them, even if that were possible. We therefore let the employment of the battle stand over for the present. Even those things through which strategy has an influence on the issue of the combat, inasmuch as it establishes the same, to a certain extent decrees them, are not so simple that they can be embraced in one single view For as strategy appoints time, place and force, it can do so in practice in many ways, each of which influences in a different manner the result of the combat as well as its consequences. Therefore we shall only get acquainted with this also by degrees, that is, through the subjects which determine more closely the application. If we strip the combat of all modifications which it may undergo according to its immediate purpose and the circumstances from which it proceeds, lastly if we set aside the valour of the troops, because that is a given quantity, then there remains only the bare conception of the combat, that is a combat without form, in which we distinguish nothing but the number of the combatants. This number will therefore determine victory. Now from the number of things above deducted to get to this point, it is shown that the superiority in numbers in a battle is only one of the factors employed to produce victory; that therefore so far from having with the superiority in number obtained all, or even only the principal thing, we have perhaps got very little by it, according as the other circumstances which co-operate happen to be so, or so. But this superiority has degrees, it it may be imagined, twofold, threefold or four times as many, etc., etc., and every one sees, that by increasing in this way, it must (at last) overpower everything else. In such an aspect we grant, that the superiority in numbers is the most important factor in the result of a combat, only it must be sufficiently great to be a counterpoise to all the other co-operating circumstances. The direct result of this is, that the greatest possible number of troops should be brought into action at the decisive point. Kind regards, -dpq Junior Skymarshal, of the Goonswarm Alliance
Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 19:49:00 - [343] Edited by: Relaria Hossin on 31/07/2007 19:51:23 Originally by: Moon Kitten -Carl Von Clausewitz: "On War"
Martin VanBuren GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 20:14:00 - [344] Edited by: Martin VanBuren on 31/07/2007 20:14:12 Originally by: Relaria Hossin Edited by: Relaria Hossin on 31/07/2007 19:51:23 Originally by: Moon Kitten -Carl Von Clausewitz: "On War" Clausewitz was a much better strategist than Sun Tzu tbqh imho
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 21:45:00 - [345] Originally by: Relaria Hossin Edited by: Relaria Hossin on 31/07/2007 19:34:16 Tactics are not limited to how well you fit and fly your personal ship. Tactics encompasses all aspects of warfare including the gathering and organizing of warm bodies to do the fighting. If you are being out-blobbed as you put it, there are many solutions including but not limited to recruiting more people to fight for your side. Goonswarm's "secret" to it's numbers is actually not a secret at all. The main source of pilots are people who have never even played EVE before. We recruit these new players, give them ships, move them to 0.0 space and begin teaching them how to be a useful pilot in PvP from their very first day as a member. The result of this method of recruitment is easily apparent if you take a look at how Goonswarm has started and how far it's members have come. We have people who were flying frigates in Syndicate who now field Dreadnoughts for our capital fleet. Throughout their entire time in EVE these players have been in the deep end of EVE, PvPing with players who have been playing for months and even years longer than they have. If you're being outnumbered by people who are recruiting more people to the game and training them from newbies, the obvious solution is to step up recruitment yourselves. I fully endorse people recruiting more newbies into EVE regardless what corporation is doing it because in the end the winner will be EVE itself. I agree that tactics cover more than fitting your ship or having loads of skill points but sorry bud gaining noobs using them like lemmings and calling it a tactic does not make you skilled in anything. Read the long winded post about it your buddy put up especialy this part il translate for ppl who are finding it a bit of a hard read. "If we strip the combat of all modifications which it may undergo according to its immediate purpose and the circumstances from which it proceeds, lastly if we set aside the valour of the troops, because that is a given quantity, then there remains only the bare conception of the combat, that is a combat without form, in which we distinguish nothing but the number of the combatants". This number will therefore determine victory. Translated- Basical he says that if you take skill, tactical knowledge and all other deciding factors out of the fight the fella with the greater numbers will win. WELL DUH!!! LOL Here is another bit i think is relavant as well; "In such an aspect we grant, that the superiority in numbers is the most important factor in the result of a combat, only it must be sufficiently great to be a counterpoise to all the other co-operating circumstances". If you read the full post you will see that the "co-operating circumstances"are tactical and strategic know how, at a personal level and as a whole. Translated- He is saying that numbers will only win if you bring enough to overcome the tactical skill know how and other abilitys of your enemy. So in conclusion- Bragging about your ability to put together a multiple alliance version of the lemmings leap and claiming it as a your tactical stroke of genius is in fact a blinding example of your total lack of strategic or tactical knowledge. And a fine example of your attempt to overwhelm BOB's skill and tactical knowledge by sheer numbers.
Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:04:00 - [346] Edited by: Relaria Hossin on 31/07/2007 22:13:30 Welp, someone missed the point so bad he flew straight into another galaxy. Edit: I'll clarify even though I'm positive you're taking an adverse position just because we happen to be on opposite sides of a war. Sticking newbies in ships and pointing them at the enemy is indeed how it starts. However, once they gain the skills to use more modules/ships we help them get into these ships. We teach them the best way to make use of the space we currently occupy through ratting, mining and other resources. Like I said before, those little tackling frigates who mindlessly zoom around trying to get webs on things now are our BS pilots and capital ship pilots later. We cultivate our newbies into proper EVE players. Everyone has to start somewhere and in the world of PvP, it is a tackling frigate. A lemming yes.
JenDen Caldari The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:11:00 - [347] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean gaining noobs using them like lemmings gathering new players who share the same motivation, although they dont have many skills yet, but will improve meanwhile. Speaking of a same thing, just the matter of what words you put on. So yeah, Goons were getting new people despite the popularity of BoB. What problem do you have with this tactics? I think its fair enough, isnt it? Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean And a fine example of your attempt to overwhelm BOB's skill and tactical knowledge by sheer numbers. Point? Goons are actually succeeding at it. Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Reverend Revelator Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:28:00 - [348] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Bragging about your ability to put together a multiple alliance version of the lemmings leap and claiming it as a your tactical stroke of genius is in fact a blinding example of your total lack of strategic or tactical knowledge. And a fine example of your attempt to overwhelm BOB's skill and tactical knowledge by sheer numbers. Translation: Bob wins coz they are SO FRICKIN KEWL!!1111 Goons win coz they r teh lame blobbers!!!!1111 -- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love --
Orangir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:35:00 - [349] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Bragging about your ability to put together a multiple alliance version of the lemmings leap and claiming it as a your tactical stroke of genius is in fact a blinding example of your total lack of strategic or tactical knowledge. And a fine example of your attempt to overwhelm BOB's skill and tactical knowledge by sheer numbers. Keep slurping and BoB may install you as pets when RAZOR kicks you out of your space
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:36:00 - [350] Originally by: JenDen And a fine example of your attempt to overwhelm BOB's skill and tactical knowledge by sheer numbers. Point? Goons are actually succeeding at it. And if you had read my previous posts you would see that i agree with you but it is not a eve skill or pvp tactic it is a resort you use when you have no tactics or pvp skills that can win on a equal or even if you have slightly superior in numbers.

Seredith GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:41:00 - [351] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: Relaria Hossin Edited by: Relaria Hossin on 31/07/2007 19:34:16 Tactics are not limited to how well you fit and fly your personal ship. Tactics encompasses all aspects of warfare including the gathering and organizing of warm bodies to do the fighting. If you are being out-blobbed as you put it, there are many solutions including but not limited to recruiting more people to fight for your side. Goonswarm's "secret" to it's numbers is actually not a secret at all. The main source of pilots are people who have never even played EVE before. We recruit these new players, give them ships, move them to 0.0 space and begin teaching them how to be a useful pilot in PvP from their very first day as a member. The result of this method of recruitment is easily apparent if you take a look at how Goonswarm has started and how far it's members have come. We have people who were flying frigates in Syndicate who now field Dreadnoughts for our capital fleet. Throughout their entire time in EVE these players have been in the deep end of EVE, PvPing with players who have been playing for months and even years longer than they have. If you're being outnumbered by people who are recruiting more people to the game and training them from newbies, the obvious solution is to step up recruitment yourselves. I fully endorse people recruiting more newbies into EVE regardless what corporation is doing it because in the end the winner will be EVE itself. I agree that tactics cover more than fitting your ship or having loads of skill points but sorry bud gaining noobs using them like lemmings and calling it a tactic does not make you skilled in anything. Read the long winded post about it your buddy put up especialy this part il translate for ppl who are finding it a bit of a hard read. "If we strip the combat of all modifications which it may undergo according to its immediate purpose and the circumstances from which it proceeds, lastly if we set aside the valour of the troops, because that is a given quantity, then there remains only the bare conception of the combat, that is a combat without form, in which we distinguish nothing but the number of the combatants". This number will therefore determine victory. Translated- Basical he says that if you take skill, tactical knowledge and all other deciding factors out of the fight the fella with the greater numbers will win. WELL DUH!!! LOL Here is another bit i think is relavant as well; "In such an aspect we grant, that the superiority in numbers is the most important factor in the result of a combat, only it must be sufficiently great to be a counterpoise to all the other co-operating circumstances". If you read the full post you will see that the "co-operating circumstances"are tactical and strategic know how, at a personal level and as a whole. Translated- He is saying that numbers will only win if you bring enough to overcome the tactical skill know how and other abilitys of your enemy. So in conclusion- Bragging about your ability to put together a multiple alliance version of the lemmings leap and claiming it as a your tactical stroke of genius is in fact a blinding example of your total lack of strategic or tactical knowledge. And a fine example of your attempt to overwhelm BOB's skill and tactical knowledge by sheer numbers. LALALALALA I HAVE MY FINGERS IN MY EARS GOONS ARE WRONG, WRONG WRONG WRONG. EL-WRONGO-MAXIMUS.
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 23:16:00 - [352] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: JenDen And a fine example of your attempt to overwhelm BOB's skill and tactical knowledge by sheer numbers. Point? Goons are actually succeeding at it. And if you had read my previous posts you would see that i agree with you but it is not a eve skill or pvp tactic it is a resort you use when you have no tactics or pvp skills that can win on a equal or even if you have slightly superior in numbers. So we're exploiting because we're better at making friends than you? Damn High School must have been hard on you
JenDen Caldari The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2007.07.31 23:58:00 - [353] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean And if you had read my previous posts you would see that i agree with you but it is not a eve skill or pvp tactic it is a resort you use when you have no tactics or pvp skills that can win on a equal or even if you have slightly superior in numbers. Don't worry dude, I'm not trying to offend anyone here. I'm just saying that EvE is a game after all, and growing up a friendly community around yourself is JUST AS important as getting skills and experience. I did mention GoonFleet youtube videos earlier, not only they are awesome with fraps and music, but their "join us" text is well made too. You should check it out, I just love when art is involved behind the gameplay itself. Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Orangir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.01 00:00:00 - [354] When goons are better at making friends than you are, you've got a serious problem.
Amerame Section XIII	Posted - 2007.08.01 00:14:00 - [355] Originally by: Orangir When goons are better at making friends than you are, you've got a serious problem. Seriously, **** goons.
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 01:13:00 - [356] Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 01/08/2007 01:16:57 Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 01/08/2007 01:15:18 Originally by: Orangir When goons are better at making friends than you are, you've got a serious problem. M8 you ***** me up but i do agree with you goon aint good at making friends. I think BOB is just good at making enemies. Since when was crA ck a swear word and got auto censored?.
Martin VanBuren GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.01 02:16:00 - [357] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 01/08/2007 01:16:57 Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 01/08/2007 01:15:18 Originally by: Orangir When goons are better at making friends than you are, you've got a serious problem. M8 you ***** me up but i do agree with you goon aint good at making friends. I think BOB is just good at making enemies. Since when was crA ck a swear word and got auto censored?. FATAL has many stalwart and brave friends who have stuck with them through thick and thin. Like
Gentle Glide Silent Scream	Posted - 2007.08.01 02:56:00 - [358] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: Gentle Glide Im a pirate, making me completly unbias'd in this. But check this out, your an idiot. Goonfleet while comprimised of noobs and up and coming players, has the skills incoming. There getting better. And your getting scared. Goonfleet would BBQ Fatal and i know it because my best friend IRL's charecter is in Fatal. Goonfleet is good at Eve. and they dont care about loosing ships, there morale is so high and that makes them even more dangerous because they wont just say "This sucks im leaving" like LV/V did (which if im not mistaken comprises most of your alliance?) get over it stop making yourself look closed minded and stupid. BoB has found its match GL to all involved, come through rancer How does anybody in eve get scared? its not like we realy die buddy as the blobs we now face show. And as far as them getting more skilled, nope again bud they are just getting more numbers and the state of the game suits their style at present with all the desynch. Goon runs the blob its that simple. But i agree its the numbers that count in eve not skill or know how so yes the numbers and their blob makes them "good at eve". And BOB did not meet its match it created it by beating every large alliance in the game for ages. They gathered up and the result is the huge blobs we now see. Now i do not blame goon or any of the others for doing this because its the natural order of any situation and if you check the history books its happened to every empire in history, Greek, Roman, British we all beat so many and made so many enemies we eventualy could'nt contain them and got pushed out by sheer force of numbers. But that eventuality is down to the skill of BOB and its allies by beating so many not the skill of the blobs they now face. If you cannot see that it is you who is the close minded idiot who looks stupid. Umm.. The current way to fight warfare in eve is... BLOBBING DING DING DING DING. And Goons have learned to be damned good at it. What in your closeminded head thinks that those little bastards cant learn any other form of warfare that eve throws at us. BoB will fall. New alliances will take there place, my brother is in a pet corp there are those who think the pets should rebel. For now its just whispers between friends but one day, who knows. With this many hell bent on taking them out i cant see a way to survive unless they want to survive. And i hate to say it but BoB pilots will jump ship to the next w1n alliance long before they give everything they have in defense of that alliance. And when RSF mows them down who knows, maybe they will come to the north and squash you.
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.01 03:45:00 - [359] Originally by: Martin VanBuren Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 01/08/2007 01:16:57 Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 01/08/2007 01:15:18 Originally by: Orangir When goons are better at making friends than you are, you've got a serious problem. M8 you ***** me up but i do agree with you goon aint good at making friends. I think BOB is just good at making enemies. Since when was crA ck a swear word and got auto censored?. FATAL has many stalwart and brave friends who have stuck with them through thick and thin. Like Well lotka volterra for one
sakana North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.01 10:52:00 - [360] Your posts are quite relaxing to read, pretty interesting, I find myself believing you...wait.... Are you Alistair Cambell? ------------

sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 11:18:00 - [361] Originally by: Gentle Glide Umm.. The current way to fight warfare in eve is... BLOBBING DING DING DING DING. And Goons have learned to be damned good at it. What in your closeminded head thinks that those little bastards cant learn any other form of warfare that eve throws at us. BoB will fall. New alliances will take there place, my brother is in a pet corp there are those who think the pets should rebel. For now its just whispers between friends but one day, who knows. With this many hell bent on taking them out i cant see a way to survive unless they want to survive. And i hate to say it but BoB pilots will jump ship to the next w1n alliance long before they give everything they have in defense of that alliance. And when RSF mows them down who knows, maybe they will come to the north and squash you. Wow not a lot of love lost between you and bob hey buddy. And starting a sentance with words like "those" and ending with "us" kinda shows whose camp your in and your loyalties lie. See below lol; "What in your closeminded head thinks that those little bastards cant learn any other form of warfare that eve throws at us". OOPS lol Nice to see you try to slip a bit of propaganda in there as well with the "my brother is in a pet corp there are those who think the pets should rebel. For now its just whispers between friends but one day, who knows". Tin foil hat at the ready. My post your commenting on actualy agrees with the fact that the blob is the standard warfare in eve if you had bothered to read it fully. But to claim that goon or anybody else is "good at it" is the most stupid thing i have ever heard, its a blob of ships and ppl that eventualy wear down the enemy, there is no tactic involved. And as i said it was BOB and their allies that created so many hostile entitys by beating so many other large alliances not goon or anybody elses recruiting skill. BOB and allies are spread out at the moment so we cannot realy "counter blob", but you maybe right we will get pushed back but all that will do is consolidate us into a "counter blob". And then it will be you who will be in our position ie; having to cover a large area of space against a compact and enormous blob, until we push you back into another compact blob of your own and its your turn again. Please read my posts as we actualy do agree on a lot of issues the only differance is that i know the only end will come if eve closes or every body resets their standings so their is no massive napped alliance fleets. You seem to think like BOB did, that goon and its allies can rule over EVE sori m8 not a chance. Think about it, the more you win the more ppl you make hostile just like BOB has done. It is a dynamic progression you cannot avoid.
Gentle Glide Silent Scream	Posted - 2007.08.01 21:08:00 - [362] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: Gentle Glide Umm.. The current way to fight warfare in eve is... BLOBBING DING DING DING DING. And Goons have learned to be damned good at it. What in your closeminded head thinks that those little bastards cant learn any other form of warfare that eve throws at us. BoB will fall. New alliances will take there place, my brother is in a pet corp there are those who think the pets should rebel. For now its just whispers between friends but one day, who knows. With this many hell bent on taking them out i cant see a way to survive unless they want to survive. And i hate to say it but BoB pilots will jump ship to the next w1n alliance long before they give everything they have in defense of that alliance. And when RSF mows them down who knows, maybe they will come to the north and squash you. Wow not a lot of love lost between you and bob hey buddy. And starting a sentance with words like "those" and ending with "us" kinda shows whose camp your in and your loyalties lie. See below lol; "What in your closeminded head thinks that those little bastards cant learn any other form of warfare that eve throws at us". OOPS lol Nice to see you try to slip a bit of propaganda in there as well with the "my brother is in a pet corp there are those who think the pets should rebel. For now its just whispers between friends but one day, who knows". Tin foil hat at the ready. My post your commenting on actualy agrees with the fact that the blob is the standard warfare in eve if you had bothered to read it fully. But to claim that goon or anybody else is "good at it" is the most stupid thing i have ever heard, its a blob of ships and ppl that eventualy wear down the enemy, there is no tactic involved. And as i said it was BOB and their allies that created so many hostile entitys by beating so many other large alliances not goon or anybody elses recruiting skill. BOB and allies are spread out at the moment so we cannot realy "counter blob", but you maybe right we will get pushed back but all that will do is consolidate us into a "counter blob". And then it will be you who will be in our position ie; having to cover a large area of space against a compact and enormous blob, until we push you back into another compact blob of your own and its your turn again. Please read my posts as we actualy do agree on a lot of issues the only differance is that i know the only end will come if eve closes or every body resets their standings so their is no massive napped alliance fleets. You seem to think like BOB did, that goon and its allies can rule over EVE sori m8 not a chance. Think about it, the more you win the more ppl you make hostile just like BOB has done. It is a dynamic progression you cannot avoid. "What in your closeminded head thinks that those little bastards cant learn any other form of warfare that eve throws at us". OOPS lol Very Happy THOSE : Seperated me from the Goonfleet camp. US : Adds me to the pool of EVERY SINGLE EVE PLAYER ARTARD. You are only pro BoB because they bail you out everytime your puny alliance gets attacked. What makes you think they will continue to defend you if it no longer suits them to do so? Do you honestly think you can handle the entire RSF or even a single member, R S or F or MANY of the others. What if the RSF + Pilots in the drone regions attack the north. Do you really think that you can take them? Stop looking like an idiot im right your wrong. Deal with it. t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 21:57:00 - [363] Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 01/08/2007 22:00:00 Im not pro bob im anti-blob. You on the other hand are obviously pro goon. If all the new north and all the other bob allies get defeated and pushed into one region or area then yes we will then out blob you guys cos you will have to much area to cover just like we do now while we will be consolidated. Now you do understand that if your ship blows up and you get podded or your alliance gets beaten back that your not out of the game and you can move to another area dont you??. The only reason your comments make sense is because you either are to stupid understand what i have writted above and on many other posts. Or your ignoring it because it blows your obviously predjuditial opinion out of the water. Shut up learn to read or get a brain.
Gentle Glide Silent Scream	Posted - 2007.08.02 01:02:00 - [364] Edited by: Gentle Glide on 02/08/2007 01:02:28 Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 01/08/2007 22:00:00 Im not pro bob im anti-blob. You on the other hand are obviously pro goon. If all the new north and all the other bob allies get defeated and pushed into one region or area then yes we will then out blob you guys cos you will have to much area to cover just like we do now while we will be consolidated. Now you do understand that if your ship blows up and you get podded or your alliance gets beaten back that your not out of the game and you can move to another area dont you??. The only reason your comments make sense is because you either are to stupid understand what i have writted above and on many other posts. Or your ignoring it because it blows your obviously predjuditial opinion out of the water. Shut up learn to read or get a brain. My comments make sense because.. they.. do. You spelled prejudice wrong, btw. Learn to write, the word is Written, not writted. I am a pirate i kill everyone regardless of pro or anti bob. I dislike goons as much as the next guy but i recognize they are getting better. t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Murina Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.02 01:06:00 - [365] Edited by: Murina on 02/08/2007 01:07:37 My comments make sense because.. they.. do. Wow nothing like a detailed and well thought out argument to just blow his report out of the water lol ok we all submit to your obviously overwhelming and superior mind.
Gentle Glide Silent Scream	Posted - 2007.08.02 02:11:00 - [366] Originally by: Murina Edited by: Murina on 02/08/2007 01:07:37 My comments make sense because.. they.. do. Wow nothing like a detailed and well thought out argument to just blow his report out of the water lol ok we all submit to your obviously overwhelming and superior mind. If you bothered to read the material quoted before posting your ignorant comment you would see that he told me my comments only made sense because of some stupid reason i cant be bothered to type. My comments make sense because they are obvious and real. t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.02 06:48:00 - [367] I am now 100% convinced that JORG is a goon plant corp
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.02 09:04:00 - [368] Originally by: Alias11 I am now 100% convinced that JORG is a goon plant corp Actually he could be a fire59 alt corp
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.08.02 13:07:00 - [369] Edited by: Goberth Ludwig on 02/08/2007 13:07:43 Sophisticated its easy to sit back and say "ok you are winning but not because you are good its just because excuse". Also I can tell you goons are really good at organizing many different allies and treat them well, its not just about getting a bunch of bitter people together. You dont know teh goons tbh, you just watch the forums and draw your conclusions. - Gob Stealth bombers work!
Sebastian Draconis Caldari e X i l e FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.02 21:22:00 - [370] LOL at the H-Cat!! What an awesome name for a cat Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])



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