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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Aethrwolf
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Posted - 2007.08.14 16:35:00 -
[421]
Well, I see that this favors large corps/alliances. compression is nice, but not what people have been asking for... and this is just another way for miners to lose isk as we are already targets for pirates and most of us cant defend ourselves, we can refuse to engage in high sec when someone steals from us and there for waste what may be an hour's mining for some people, but we cant usually fight back on our own. Thieves get penalized in absolutely no way.. oh yeah, our gang can attack them while the timer is up, but mining gangs/fleets are usually all industrial characters. This ship requires us to operate outside of high sec, where its basically open season on us.
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POTUS
Pimpology Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2007.08.14 17:41:00 -
[422]
Edited by: POTUS on 14/08/2007 17:41:32 Has it been posted what the skill tree is going to be for the ship and mods yet? If so, please link where. Also, what will the costs for the skill books be? I just want to have as much of this done when it comes out. |
Chruker
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Posted - 2007.08.14 18:06:00 -
[423]
Originally by: POTUS Edited by: POTUS on 14/08/2007 17:41:32 Has it been posted what the skill tree is going to be for the ship and mods yet? If so, please link where. Also, what will the costs for the skill books be? I just want to have as much of this done when it comes out.
Look at the skills sections for the ship and modules here: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/new_rorqual.php
Also not that each ore group require level 4 in the relevant ore processing skills. Ex. to compress the 3 kinds of veldspar ore you need Veldspar Processing 4. So with the pre-requistics for the high-end and ice ore processing skills there is a lot of skill training hidden there. ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering |
Chruker
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Posted - 2007.08.14 18:08:00 -
[424]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: DPSLogistics Mike How was the 600,000m3 figure derived for the assembly line capacity of 10 installed jobs not delivered?
the cargobay capacity taking into account use of cargohold optimization rigs and expanders is around 63,000m3. Due to the run volumes, you can then install around 60,000m3 in each job and through normal S&I mechanics install and queue 10 jobs if you have advanced mass production V. The materials are effectively held in the assemblylines until you activate industrial mode again and deliver the jobs.
Can't you with Advanced Mass Production 5 start 11 jobs? ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering |
Caruleum Ursa
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Posted - 2007.08.14 18:22:00 -
[425]
This game is all about the PvP.
(Wake up, Miners! CCP is simply making the PvPers another big target to increase the carnage!)
If you want a large red bullseye painted on your arse, BUY THIS SHIP! (Unless, your industrialists are well defended by loyal PvP fleets, who live to worship their care bears.)
If you want to create an offworld super-drilling platform, it should at least drill 200% more crude than a regular mining ship. Otherwise, what's the point? Mineral conservation? This ship will reduce your mining gang by at least one more pilot, in addition to the lookouts and other support already needed in low sec ... I suppose it's a boon for some of the really large low sec corps, who may soon need to mine veldspar in 0.0 due to compression changes, but it is unfortunately not going to be sought after by the ordinary miners in EvE.
Yes, this sounds like a glorified Super Tanker/Refinery ready to be set adrift in a war zone ... and, it's ready to go BOOM! What an expensive oil spill you'll have to clean up ...
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Kallana Wren
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Posted - 2007.08.14 18:57:00 -
[426]
Originally by: Amateratsu
and what are your scouts gonna fly? since the Rorqual can only carry hulks or industrials..
Im thinking of empire based corps running nomad operations in hostile territory, as was suggested in the original deblog.
Its less of a problem for those of us that live in 0.0 and will not be shot on sight by the owning alliance.
Gee, cause it would be real hard to toss a few cov-ops in the holds of those indys and have them fit themselves out next to the ship. I mean... Unless you were planning on filling all the holds for the trip up? Makes it hard to store your ore that way...
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Amateratsu
Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.14 19:20:00 -
[427]
Edited by: Amateratsu on 14/08/2007 19:22:03
Originally by: Kallana Wren
Originally by: Amateratsu
and what are your scouts gonna fly? since the Rorqual can only carry hulks or industrials..
Im thinking of empire based corps running nomad operations in hostile territory, as was suggested in the original deblog.
Its less of a problem for those of us that live in 0.0 and will not be shot on sight by the owning alliance.
Gee, cause it would be real hard to toss a few cov-ops in the holds of those indys and have them fit themselves out next to the ship. I mean... Unless you were planning on filling all the holds for the trip up? Makes it hard to store your ore that way...
Interesting possibility tho i will be very surprised if you can put a ship in a ship into the maintanance bay
Btw Chronotis there is a typo error in the ships info
Capital Industrial Ships skill bonuses: -5% reduction in fuel consumption for industrial cores per level 5% bonus to bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level when in deployed mode 50% bonus to the range of Capital Shield Transporters per level. 20% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level.
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Kallana Wren
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Posted - 2007.08.14 19:25:00 -
[428]
Edited by: Kallana Wren on 14/08/2007 19:31:11 You definitely can, since packaged ships pop out assembled (aside from shuttles iirc) So you just fill the hauler with scout ships and mods. 10 jump clones = 4 hulk pilots, 1-2 Indy pilots and? 4 scouts. Plus the recon that cyno'd them all in in the first place.
And before someone says "omg you noob how you fit teh shipz?!" It has a ship maintenance array. Do I really need to expand on that?
Also... I highly doubt CCP had even considered the miner equivalent of the solo belt pwning machine. Easy transport of minerals into 0.0 is part of what makes the massive lag-fest fleet battles so frequent. If the minerals are harder to come by, 2 things happen. One, ships become valued again. Two, miners become more important members of 0.0 alliances, as they will then be needed to produce the low ends needed to build BSs and other ships for survival. Easy mineral transport makes space too small.
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Amateratsu
Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.14 19:40:00 -
[429]
Originally by: Kallana Wren Edited by: Kallana Wren on 14/08/2007 19:31:11 You definitely can, since packaged ships pop out assembled (aside from shuttles iirc) So you just fill the hauler with scout ships and mods. 10 jump clones = 4 hulk pilots, 1-2 Indy pilots and? 4 scouts. Plus the recon that cyno'd them all in in the first place.
so if you jettison a packaged ship from your cargohold, it pops out as an assembled ship ready for boarding?
if thats the case, you could put more than a dosen pakaged hulks into a transport ship, then place the transport into the maintanance bay?
would enable much larger ops to be fielded by this ship...
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Duradam
Black List Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2007.08.14 20:06:00 -
[430]
That is correct- however you will not be able to repackage the ship to jump it back out. While I don't mind clone jumping out and assembling/fitting a cheap frig or intercepter, mining in my hulk which will jump back safely, and then taking the risk of flying back in my cepter, I don't think most people will jump out 10 hulks and then try to fly them back to safe space.
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Ki Tarra
Caldari Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.14 21:36:00 -
[431]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Compression Rates
~20:1 for high end ores ~20:1 for 'medium' ores ~40:1 for low end ores ~8:1 for ice
Please take another look at this! While 40:1 compression might sound okay, that is the compression of the ore, not the minerals. Your best actual compression ratio is 13:1 with Dense Veldspar.
The nerf is to mineral compression, not to ore compression, so the balancing should be done against the same attribute as the nerf. With the current plan, logistics will require +30x as much work for transporting low end minerals. That is a harsh nerf.
Here is a quick run down of the mineral compression/expansion ratios. The 'concentrated' and 'dense' versions of the ores would provide and addition 5% or 10% bonus to the compression ratio.
Compression: 11.99 Veldspar 9.90 Scordite 4.09 Pyroxeres 3.47 Plagioclase
Expansion: (Yes, these compressed ores are still larger than their minerals.) 2.03 Omber 2.07 Kernite 3.83 Jaspet 8.56 Hemorphite 6.85 Hedbergite 20.40 Spodumain 11.68 Gneiss 16.00 Ochre 29.36 Crokite 20.02 Bistot 20.02 Arkonor 94.33 Mercoxit
With hi end minerals, it could be aurgued that compression was not truly required. However, low and mid level mineral compression needs another look. Going from 430x to 13x max compression is a huge change in low end mineral compression. In the case of the mid range minerals, compression simply doesn't exist any more.
If the intention of the compressed ores was to add new content then there is no need to nerf mineral compression. However, the dev blog seemed to indicate that compressed ore was to replace modules as a form of mineral compression.
Originally by: Dev Blog This ship's unique ore compression ability allows the movement of ores from fringe regions to empire space for refining, a feature requested since EVE's launch. The Rorqual's introduction grants us the ability to incorporate older æmetafeaturesÆ into EVE in a balanced and officially supported manner.
I would recommend rebalancing the ores based on their mineral compression value, Low's ~30:1, Mid's ~15:1, Hi's ~7.5:1.
This would also increase demand for some of the low sec ores, as they would be the primary sorce of compressed mid range minerals. As it is the only value provided by the Ore Capital ship in low sec, is the gang bonus. The added value of compressed ore for shipment, might increase usage of low sec.
Quote: No misfortune is so bad that whining about it won't make it worse
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2007.08.15 06:55:00 -
[432]
However the ice compression BPOs had their production limit decreased to 10 runs, so you can at most compress 10 icecubes. There is always the chance that the complete set of changes didn't make it into the pre-lunch patch. So lets see what happens.
ice compression does need some adjustment and may or may not come in 2.2 as the emphasis is on ore compression for now.
Btw Chronotis there is a typo error in the ships info
<doh>
in an unrelated note:
falling asleep whilst playing eve is bad.
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Klaatu Nikto
Gallente Frontier Combine Inc
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Posted - 2007.08.15 08:50:00 -
[433]
Originally by: Chruker http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/new_rorqual.php
Please add compressed ore:refined products volume ratio column. We'll see then which compressed ores have chance forming secondary market.
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Sheha
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2007.08.15 09:04:00 -
[434]
Some of the WHINES are about the number of Hulks it can carry.
Why use it as a ship platform?
Remove the Ship Hangar. Add four Capital Mining Lasers. Keep all the rest.
Now give it a crew of 5 players!
One is the Pilot (cap skilled) whose job is solely to fly the ship and operate the industrial processes and drones. The remaining Four make up the Mining Crew, the Turret Controllers (mining skilled) who each operate one Capital Laser Turret, exactly like POS Defence Batteries.
Make the Lasers slightly better than or at least equal to standard T2 turrets and let them mine anything within range that the Turret Controller has the skills for. ie; if the turret controller has no skills for Bistot he/she cannot mine Bistot with the turret. Make '"ore type" processing' level three minimum requirement - level five optimum turret yield, so that anyone with lvl 3 Veldspar processing can use it, but Arkonor 5 makes it rock.
Tie in the yield with the skill level of the Operator to give a max of +10% (lvl 3 > lvl 4 =+5% - lvl 4 > lvl5 =+10%). Maxed out Ore Processing skills = maxed out Cap Laser Turret yield. No new skills required; just train up the ones you should have already!
I hear it... "Five pods killed at once!"... well... defend the mining op and ship!
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Damned Force
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Posted - 2007.08.15 09:12:00 -
[435]
Give more cargo and less Ship Bay. Why should a mining capital have more ship bay as a carrier??????? Its crazy. Or boost the carrier ship Bay to 900k m3
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Sheha
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2007.08.15 09:29:00 -
[436]
One more point is this...
Why not let 5 people have the experience of flying in a massive Cap Ship, in stead of just one rich guy with uber skills?
As it stands this is not much more than an single person uber factory with car park! All most people will ever be able to do with it is park a ship inside, or fly by and look at it... just like the other cap classes. Opportunity missed imo.
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Amior
Amarr Pringles Inc. YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.08.15 10:49:00 -
[437]
This ships needs updating... and it will only hurt those people in lowsec/0.0...
Would you be able to actually make a Capital Strip Miner so the ship can only fit one...
Capital Strip Miner thats can do 4x Strip Miner Is Capital Ice Miner that can do 3x Ice Harvesters Is Capital Deepcore Strip Miner 2x Deepcore Strip Miner Is Capital Cloud Harvesters (into a special strip miner) 10x Cloud Harvesters Is
Also add a new siege module that will be able to increase...
7.5% bonus to all shield resistances per level 3% better yield for Strip Miners per level 100% bonus Ice Harvester yield but 25% penalty to ice harvester duration 5% reduction in Ice Harvester duration per level 60% bonus to Mercoxit Mining Crystal yield multiplier 20% reduced chance of gas cloud forming per level
Also make it a requirement to use the capital ore for Exhumer V... Thats it I guess until now if I can think of anything...
Once you pop, you can't stop! - Pringles I R PIEWATE! Yarh haha! I eat noobs for breakfast |
brinelan
Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.08.15 10:49:00 -
[438]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis [b]
in an unrelated note:
falling asleep whilst playing eve is bad.
uh oh, did someone get blown up? lol -------------------------- Official VnV ocd forum resident :) Victory not Vengeance [VnV] Proud member of Intrepid Crossing [IRC] |
Lady Darksaber
J.I.T. Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.08.15 11:03:00 -
[439]
i know there has been alot of talk about the skills needed ..what should or should not be there, but has anything been comfirmed by CCP skill vice ?
Im getting one of this ships , but would like to get my skills in order first ...
Thanks LD
That is all
www.eve-icsc.com |
Helison
Gallente Times of Ancar Pure.
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Posted - 2007.08.15 13:04:00 -
[440]
Currently on Sisi you need about 15-16k m3 Ore for one compress-run. I think this is a bit high in comparison with the cargosize of the rorqual (you won¦t use 3 cargo-expander if you really use it in a belt) and in comparison with the size of roids.
I personally think that it would be best, if it needs about 5000m3 Ore for compressing one run. The the time to compress one jet-conti is still ok (4-5min) and you won¦t have as much excess-material when finishing a mining-op.
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Chruker
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Posted - 2007.08.15 14:34:00 -
[441]
Originally by: Lady Darksaber i know there has been alot of talk about the skills needed ..what should or should not be there, but has anything been comfirmed by CCP skill vice ?
The at this reply a few posts above yours: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=568534&page=15#424 ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering |
Chruker
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Posted - 2007.08.15 16:07:00 -
[442]
Originally by: Klaatu Nikto
Originally by: Chruker http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/new_rorqual.php
Please add compressed ore:refined products volume ratio column. We'll see then which compressed ores have chance forming secondary market.
I'm unsure if this is what you mean: You need 333 units of raw veldspar to refine it Each unit of raw veldspar is 0.1 m3 Each compression run compresses 500 x refine batches (166500 / 333 = 500). So (hopefully) it'll give 500x the minerals of a regular veldspar refine batch. A refine batch of regular veldspar should give 1000 units of tritanium, which each has a volume of 0.01. So the output volume of a regular refine batch is 10 m3. This means that refining a cube of compressed veldspar should give you 500 x 10 = 5000 m3 of minerals. A cube of compressed veldspar is 417 m3
So the compressed ore to refined products ration should be: 5000 / 417 = 1 : 11.99
If that is what you asked for, then that column is on the chart.
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering |
Quutar
Caldari Auraxian Irregulars The Sundering
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Posted - 2007.08.15 17:14:00 -
[443]
is the BPO for the Rorqual finalized?
it takes longer to research that a mothership BPO?
and it's build time does not line up with the dreads/carriers/freighters
is this intentional?
Not finding research slots in Empire Space? Try Quutar Research Services. |
dragonofearth
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Posted - 2007.08.15 17:32:00 -
[444]
this ship should be allowed in high sec. Make another version of it that does well with low grade roids. Let it in high sec
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WGD118
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Posted - 2007.08.15 18:05:00 -
[445]
I agree with dragonofearth make one for high sec that does not have jump clones, jump drive and less of a tank
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velocity7
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Posted - 2007.08.15 18:45:00 -
[446]
Just basing my numbers off:
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/new_rorqual.php
So we have 166,500 Veldspar that will turn into 1 Compressed Veldspar. 166,500 Veldspar gives off 500,000 Tritanium given 100% refining, so 1 Compressed Veldspar should do the same. 1 Compressed Veldspar is 417 m3, so let's throw as much of that into the Medium Intensive Refining Array as we can.
Say we get the maximum refine there, which is 75% refine. So we can throw in 59 of these Compressed Veldspar, and each of them is going to give off 500,000 * 0.75 = 375,000 Tritanium. Final output from a Medium Intensive Refining Array will give 22,125,000 Tritanium. This works out to be approximately 221,250 m3. Which is a hell of a lot bigger than the Medium Intensive Refining Array can hold.
Can someone double-check?
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Andrus Delai
e X i l e FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.15 19:06:00 -
[447]
I don't see why the Rorqual needs two Capital Ship skills. Industrial ships are not more difficult to command than combat ships. Quite the contrary. Industrial Capital Ships should only require Advanced Spaceship Command and not have the additional requirement of Capital Ships. Leave the Capital Ships skill for the warships and perhaps rename the skill.
Also, there are only two classes of ships that require Advanced Spaceship Command. Freighters require ASC-1 and Capital Ships require ASC-5. I can see why you might want to require all jump capable ships to have ASC-5 if there are going to be large non-jump ships coming. However, if there are no other ships coming, then it makes no sense to require ASC-5 for the Rorqual.
One additional thing to consider would be make the Rorqual tank like a beast when it is in deployed mode while reducing its tanking while not deployed. After all, the Rorqual in deployed mode would be in its "natural" state. Hopefully, the ship model will reflect this. Not only would this would encourage players to deploy the ship during operations, but it would create interesting challenges on both sides if discovered by hostiles. For example, the hostiles would have to decide between trying to overpower the tank and camping the ship waiting for the possibility that the Stront will run out.
I'm assuming that the Rorqual's drones are only for personal defense and are not expected to be used to aid the barges under its command. Given that the Rorqual is expected to be in deployed mode during an op, pulling in can from a great distance, its drones will often be out of range of the barges. If the ship is supposed to be able to defend the barges, then it needs a drone bonus more suitable to that task or the ability to assign.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.08.15 19:31:00 -
[448]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Nyphur
2) Can compressed ore be removed from the bay and transported in a normal hauler? Also, can it be refined by someone else in a station? (This may have been answered but I didn't see the answer).
Yes and yes.
I take it from the fact that you skipped question 1 and went straight to number 2 that either you don't know the answer or the answer is yes and you're not permitted to share game balance change information of upcoming patches outside the scope of the current discussion.
I'm hoping it's the first case and will wait for an answer if you're allowed to give one. My question was whether or not mineral compression via building items like passive targetters was being nerfed with the patch or if it's a separate issue that is not being changed.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Clansworth
Point-Zero SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.15 20:22:00 -
[449]
I would just like to point out a small tidbit that seems to be getting lost. This ship does have great capabilities, I, as a mining director, especially like the ability to fit multiple links, and of course, get the bonus to effectiveness of them. However, there is no high-sec version of this capability. Command Ships are able to use their warfare link bonus for their specific role anywhere, but mining foreman are stuck out in low-sec and null-sec to get the most from their leadership skills?
We really need an ORE command ship equivelant. Something that will get some of the leadership bonus of this cap ship, the ability to fit multiple links, and I'm realy not sure what else to tell you the truth. A mediocre tank, something a little better than a hulk. Seems ORE skipped a step fitting their nice fancy mining computers on the cap ship, without testing them out on a small platform first.
Check out my prospector ship class in my sig to see what I am talking about. Cap ships are well and good, but mining foreman souldn't have to be masterful pilots to run a mining op effeciently.
Prospector Class |
weighd
Gallente Orion Ore International Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.15 20:40:00 -
[450]
I may have miss read something but in the revamping of the Ice Harvesters link, is it going to change from reducing time and go to reducing cap? I'm all for the time reduction don't have a problem with cap. -------------------- Jaxon Rome > ***** is underated for all the good things it does! helps you lose weight....helps get rid of pesky possesions and family..... |
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