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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 29 post(s)

CCP Wrangler	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:04:00 - [1] If you're a miner, you're getting a new toy. And you guys said we didn't love you. Chronotis posts about the new capital ship for miners, and changes associated with the release of that ship in The Miners' Cause. Happy reading! Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads - Knowledge Base Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions - DevFinder LiteÖ

4rc4ng3L Gallente C R Y O	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:18:00 - [2] Edited by: 4rc4ng3L on 02/08/2007 22:18:34 MWuahahahaha The ultimate prize! Get your antimatter loaded gentlemen! Death is the only true freedom, brought on by our own ignorance.... Welcome to the "free" world in which we live...
Cayloron	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:22:00 - [3] Edited by: Cayloron on 02/08/2007 22:22:06 Mining is the oldest profession in eve? I think he just called us hookers.
Sgt Blade Dark Entropy	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:23:00 - [4] lol at the new tractor beam can we pull frigs with it > Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5
maarud Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:28:00 - [5] Will there be mining fighters? Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
ftcm	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:30:00 - [6] Edited by: ftcm on 02/08/2007 22:32:18 just one question, can this ship use normal stargates or its limited do low sec? Oh, and one request: make it better than the Moros for transport, the use of a war ship to haul cargo is just odd.
Verone Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:30:00 - [7] My god... it's a time paradox! Nice to see the bears getting a capital at last >>> THE BEAUTY OF NEW EDEN <<<
Riddick Valer	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:38:00 - [8] I think Chribba should be given permission to operate one in high-sec.
Zigg Omelo eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:47:00 - [9] ****in WIN!! I hope this is just 3 of the many changes coming to the major PvP'in bears in eve would love to see the new skill requirements
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:48:00 - [10] This is damn cool and im definately getting one. All you need to do is FIX most laser boats and I will be very happy.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:52:00 - [11] Originally by: Rid*** Valer* I think Chribba should be given permission to operate one in high-sec. There are still a few capital ship assembly arrays in high sec space. Would it be considered an exploit to build and operate an ORE capital ship there? ------ Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking
Juju Rasta	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:53:00 - [12] There are rumours that there is already a test sample on SISI? Anyone know if this is true and if possible that someone knows what its called they could take the all wanted screenshots of stats/req skills/bonus/slots etc?
Evelgrivion Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:55:00 - [13] I am the Ore Carrier, I can mine anywhere, I am the ore carrier, I can mine anywhere, I am the ore carrier, I can mine anywhere, Including here, and here, and here! This isn't the signature you're looking for. Can you tell me where to find the one I am looking for? -Kaemonn
Salvis Tallan Gallente The Shadow Order The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:55:00 - [14] I have one remark. WOOHOOO! ------
Razer Morphis Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:57:00 - [15] A GM that can't spell "hangAr"? Epic. ----------------------
Dixon Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.02 23:00:00 - [16] Originally by: Razer Morphis A GM that can't spell "hangAr"? Epic. Either that or people are going to be very disappointed when they see that it is, in fact, a hanger.
Lord Loom Loom Service Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.08.02 23:02:00 - [17] holy ***** ** ---------- KEEP TRY!!!
0mega GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.02 23:07:00 - [18] Might be unrelated, but are there any plans to make the Clone Vat Bay slightly more useful?
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.08.02 23:10:00 - [19] Capital tractors? Does that mean we get med and large ones too? And will other caps be able to fit capital tractors? Lootnatos 4tw? There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Rafein	Posted - 2007.08.02 23:12:00 - [20] still would like mining rigs, but really looking forward to ship.
Zy'or Tealon Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.02 23:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Razer Morphis A GM that can't spell "hangAr"? Epic. A n00b who doesn't know the difference between a Dev and a GM? Epic. Originally by: Clementina If you bug report it, you get ignored. If you post about it on the forums, you get banned. If you exploit it, you get rich.
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.02 23:29:00 - [22] It looks great. Some quibbles about the 95% cap need to jump, but c'est la vie. The BIG question : WHEN ?
xeom Coagulated	Posted - 2007.08.02 23:35:00 - [23] Originally by: Montaire It looks great. Some quibbles about the 95% cap need to jump, but c'est la vie. The BIG question : WHEN ? Err like the rest of the cap ships? Also there a skill that reduces it to 75% at lvl 5. --- Coagulated -Videos- Viciously Delicious New! Non-Entity
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.02 23:56:00 - [24] Originally by: xeom Originally by: Montaire It looks great. Some quibbles about the 95% cap need to jump, but c'est la vie. The BIG question : WHEN ? Err like the rest of the cap ships? Also there a skill that reduces it to 75% at lvl 5. Whoops. Also would really like to see the Ship Bonus's. A few questions : Can it fit mining lasers ? Does it get the bonus to number of drones, when combined with a very small drone bay would preclude use of fighters. And shouldnt it require Exumers 5 ?
Farrellus Cameron Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.02 23:58:00 - [25] Main question, you say compression will require blueprints. Will these blueprints enable compression outside of the ORE capital ship, meaning can you use them anywhere? Are you actually giving us a way to compress minerals that does not involve building tractor beams, passive targeters, or ice miners? Absolutely awesome if its true. ----------------------------------------------------
Quutar Caldari Auraxian Irregulars The Sundering	Posted - 2007.08.03 00:00:00 - [26] how much can it hold? we shall find out ^_^ Not finding research slots in Empire Space? Try Quutar Research Services.
jongalt	Posted - 2007.08.03 00:30:00 - [27] is this a stealth-nerf to the minerals market...?
Jonathan Xavier Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.03 00:58:00 - [28] Give us what everyone wants and allow capital tractor beams (with appropriate cap use) to activate on small ships
Caiman Graystock The Caldari Confederation	Posted - 2007.08.03 01:23:00 - [29] Edited by: Caiman Graystock on 03/08/2007 01:25:45 Edited by: Caiman Graystock on 03/08/2007 01:23:30 Quote: hope you will continue to press for changes and new features as you have always done in the relevant forums. ^I liked this comment, Maybe a dev could take note of this thread; http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=520085 Fix tactical shield manipulation 5!
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.08.03 01:47:00 - [30] This devblog is filled with so much delicious win. I <3 you all. ------------ ULTIMATE LAG SOLUTION \| Forum Whiners - Unite!
Smakko Ad Astra Vexillum Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.08.03 01:59:00 - [31] Woot! Originally by: NSA DAKILLA bruce the cream of noobs
Paddlefoot Aeon Neogen Industries Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.03 01:59:00 - [32] From the blog: # The Laser Optimization link will have the ice harvesting and gas cloud harvesting duration bonus added. # The Ice Harvesting link will be changed to provide a bonus to the capacitor need of mining lasers, ice harvesters and gas cloud harvesters. I fully agree that there should be separate modules for Ice Harvesting and regular mineral mining, but to put in a module that decreases the cap cost of ice harvesters is a little weak. They consume next to no cap, and even if they did, their cycle time is so long that running a tank on a mackinaw should be easier than running a tank on a hulk (CAP wise). That being said, I suggest you change the name of the "Ice Harvesting" link, because it will now effect all mining, not just ice harvesting, and there is a large potential for misunderstandings. I would rather see desync eliminated before new content is added, but I guess we cannot stop the forward march of progress. -----------------------------------------------
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.03 02:03:00 - [33] Originally by: Paddlefoot Aeon I would rather see desync eliminated before new content is added, but I guess we cannot stop the forward march of progress. The bughunting team and the team that writes network code probably have little to do with new ships. A new ship is mostly all about balance and artwork.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.08.03 02:41:00 - [34] Originally by: Caiman Graystock Quote: hope you will continue to press for changes and new features as you have always done in the relevant forums. ^I liked this comment, Maybe a dev could take note of this thread; http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=520085 Fix tactical shield manipulation 5! Doubt it. I've been pushing to get a handful of T2 modules fixed since march and they haven't responded or fixed the modules in question. They HAVE fixed two modules out of my list, so I know they're aware of the problem. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Selene Fenestre Corpus PCG The State	Posted - 2007.08.03 02:44:00 - [35] Well now I know what to put on my Christmas list for Santa to bring
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.08.03 02:55:00 - [36] Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you're a miner, you're getting a new toy. And you guys said we didn't love you. Chronotis posts about the new capital ship for miners, and changes associated with the release of that ship in The Miners' Cause. Happy reading! Do you have any pictures of this new beauty for the bears?? Originally by: Splagada you're on eve-o, just go for blunt insults and random crap, please!
Zalgar VII	Posted - 2007.08.03 03:00:00 - [37] Not bad at all. Finally some love for us miners. P.S, Hey Razer.
Ionia Advanced Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.08.03 04:51:00 - [38] !
General StarScream Gallente Enheduanni	Posted - 2007.08.03 05:15:00 - [39] I aint a miner, but nice one , i bet this made alot of people happy, both pirates and miners
General StarScream Gallente Enheduanni	Posted - 2007.08.03 05:32:00 - [40] Yarrr 200km range on tractor?? uber salvge ship of doom anyone? while the fighter miner drones mine in the belts in the system and warp back and forth to you, while you salvage tha lvl5 missions from safe range
Julius Romanus Free Space Development Cartel	Posted - 2007.08.03 06:21:00 - [41] I'm not a miner, but that looks pretty cool to me.
Hugh Ruka Caldari Free Traders	Posted - 2007.08.03 06:47:00 - [42] NICE !!! Finaly something to convince me to train for a capital ship. Could we get the stats before it is released on TQ ? I guess it will be available on SiSi for testing, but very few folks will manage the skills to do so. Is it possible to make it refine instead of compressing ? Generaly the refined minerals are smaller than ore, so it would accomplish the same goal while removing an annoying middle step. Also I hope it will get at least some usefull defenses. 0.0 rats are pathetic atm, but there are still players to count with. Originally by: JP Beauregard The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....
Aelicitia	Posted - 2007.08.03 06:48:00 - [43] Holy crap, some people are not realizing what this ship truly is. It is the only capital ship to have a clone vat bay. A module that used to be restricted to supercapitals only. It also comes with a ship bay, a hangar bay, jumpdrives and an extended drone bay. It is, essentially, a mini-mothership. In fact, in some ways it is better than a mothership, at 1/20th of the cost. Motherships and Titans are used as combat ships, which is sadly a far cry from what they were supposed to be. The ORE capital, if combined with certain starbase modules, will offer the industrial backbone to build & create a fleet. That is a TRUE mothership. Imagine an ORE capital that carries a mix of combat and mining vessels, along with a medium control tower, refining array, manufacturing array, basic gun placements, silos, and some basic fuel to get the starbase running. Once you find a nice system with ice, the ORE capital can deploy a small refining outpost. A fleet of mining barges can mine and compact a massive amount of minerals to be refined at a time. Once the silos are full of ore, tear down the refining array and launch the building array. Build yourself a fleet of ships + modules, and have your pilots clone jump into the ships. Once you are done conducting raids and terrorizing the neighborhood, tear everything down, pack it up, and move on your merry way. All throughout history, pirates, outlaws, and resistance fighters have been known to commandeer industry vessels and use them as combat platforms. (ex. using old oil tankers as aircraft carriers) The ORE capital could not become a more perfect choice for such a much needed ship in EVE.
Auron Shadowbane Teeth Of The Hydra R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.03 06:49:00 - [44] today isnt april 4, is it? if all that is true and mineral compressions isnt pre-nerfed to hell and back I'll love it. any information on it's defensive capabilities? will it be in line with covetor & friends (paper tank) or more similar to hulk (the HAC barge \o/) ? so will it fit capital repairs? and will the ship maint array be able to fit more than only 2 hulks? 4 would be nice for a good mining op!
nardaq Infinity Enterprises	Posted - 2007.08.03 06:52:00 - [45] * Inherent bonuses to the range of survey and cargo scanners allowing it to survey asteroid belts at a glance from its position I see only more numbers that way. nothing more nothing less, what's the point its only making the job harder to find the rock with xxx ore in it. that scanner needs IMHO!!!! a improvement _______________________________________________ whining to CCP, whining to CCP,whining to CCP, Yarrrr!!111 until EVE is working proper =] will it?
William Hamilton Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.03 06:55:00 - [46] ^Read again, they're changing survey scanners Originally by: Paddlefoot Aeon From the blog: # The Laser Optimization link will have the ice harvesting and gas cloud harvesting duration bonus added. # The Ice Harvesting link will be changed to provide a bonus to the capacitor need of mining lasers, ice harvesters and gas cloud harvesters. I fully agree that there should be separate modules for Ice Harvesting and regular mineral mining, but to put in a module that decreases the cap cost of ice harvesters is a little weak. They consume next to no cap, and even if they did, their cycle time is so long that running a tank on a mackinaw should be easier than running a tank on a hulk (CAP wise). That being said, I suggest you change the name of the "Ice Harvesting" link, because it will now effect all mining, not just ice harvesting, and there is a large potential for misunderstandings. I would rather see desync eliminated before new content is added, but I guess we cannot stop the forward march of progress. Read again, it's a cap reduction to all miners
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.03 06:57:00 - [47] Very nice toy, but useful only for the big corporations and the alliances, that will mount mining ops with 20+ miners and 10+ bs/carrier as defence. There is no hope for a command hulk capable of using 1 mining link, for the use of small corporations that mine with a group of 4-5 players?
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.03 07:02:00 - [48] First off, great news, now... It's such an old idea, I honestly can't remember who originally suggested it, but: ACTIVE MINING! Make mining something that has some sort of active component to it. Something that wouldn't be simple for a macro program to emulate. (stupid 3 second idea: a game of dig dug that I have to play to drill to the best ore. Or one where I have to keep my cursor through a series of hoops or challenges to keep my laser active and mining) I hope more variety in mining mods comes out as well. Remember back in the day when you finally got those CU Vapors to drop? it was awesome! then t2 miners came out and we've all had the same thing ever since. Heck when they changed all the miners to have the same cycle and usage time things became pretty linear. I'd love to see a return to a variety of mods that do different things well. There are so many ideas we can pluck just from the guns/mods/pvp/trading/invention portions of the game that it's not funny. Charges: how about something that improves mining for a short while (no not crystals, which are more like, well, crystals (lasers), but charges like cap boosters. Range Increasing Mods/that use more energy or reduce yield Components: as from salvage, that allow for small special drops that are scattered around the universe which can be traded and yield "special drops" like officer loot. Exploration: for belts (yes, yes hidden belts) All of this requires that mining stop being so linear and boring and of trivial player challenge. --- Destroying asteroids one at a time, to make the universe safer.
General StarScream Gallente Enheduanni	Posted - 2007.08.03 07:11:00 - [49] Ye lol should be some mining boosters out there. ore *****
Jarden Gallente The Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.08.03 07:13:00 - [50] Originally by: nardaq * Inherent bonuses to the range of survey and cargo scanners allowing it to survey asteroid belts at a glance from its position I see only more numbers that way. nothing more nothing less, what's the point its only making the job harder to find the rock with xxx ore in it. that scanner needs IMHO!!!! a improvement The survey scanner UI has been cleaned up so users will be quickly able to see which asteroids are desired and information can be passed to your gang via gang broadcasts, directing them to the juiciest æroids. You have read the whole devblog?
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.03 07:14:00 - [51] What's the skillset for this ship going to be like? Will it require Exhumers 5 as it once seemed, or only Mining Barge 5 etc. ---
Wizzkidy Demonic Retribution Pure.	Posted - 2007.08.03 07:22:00 - [52] Sounds good. Please give us the skills it will need so I can start training my industrial char up.
Drachenlord Amarr Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.08.03 07:25:00 - [53] Edited by: Drachenlord on 03/08/2007 07:25:02 http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7264/caporeshipuz3.jpg And http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/N-A-S/miningfighterge8.jpg ----- While the Enemies of the Emperor still draw breath there can be no peace
Hohne Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.03 07:36:00 - [54] Originally by: James Duar What's the skillset for this ship going to be like? Will it require Exhumers 5 as it once seemed, or only Mining Barge 5 etc. Exhumers is a T2 skill. No T1 ship has ever required a T2 skill, so it was only the wishful thinkers that wanted this. It'll require plain old Mining Barge V + some other skills. TBH I'm thinking at the penalty of being stuck for 10 minutes (or more) in a belt, these things will just sit @ POS's giving out bonuses, only jumping in at the end to 'maybe' fire one cycle to collect and compress... Dreads are something that we accept a 10 minute risk for. As you more or less must use them to avoid losses of other ships,.... Will miners accept that same vunerability for what seems like not alot of gain?
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.08.03 07:41:00 - [55] Originally by: Drachenlord Edited by: Drachenlord on 03/08/2007 07:25:02 http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7264/caporeshipuz3.jpg And http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/N-A-S/miningfighterge8.jpg Mining... fighter? Be still, my heart. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic
Elissen Amarr Serenity Inc	Posted - 2007.08.03 07:51:00 - [56] Sweet! And finally another ship class to add to the Jumpplanner ---- Weeks of programming can save you hours of planning. Jumpplanner v2.0 - Routeplanner for all jumpcapable ships!
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.08.03 08:02:00 - [57] Chronotis, I hope we can assume several things about this capital ship: - Restricted to 0.4 and below - When the Industrial Core is inactive, the ship is pretty useless (from a mining perspective) - Its Ore Compression feature is heavily nerfed; it will not replace the 'Miner > Can > Hauler > POS/Outpost > FreighterToEmpire' chain entirely. - Its Shield/Armour/Structure and resists are below that of a combat carrier; after all, this is a T1 industrial ship. Let is tank 2-3 Battleship rats with T2/Officer mods - fine, but nothing beyond that. As a miner (I know the shame), I can see this is indeed a good thing for industrialists. However, I get the feeling that you've just produced a ship that can do all the things on the list of 'miner's wants'; rather than pick and choose and make sacrifices. In this case, two ships really would have been better than one; a ore-compressing jump-capable carrier/transport; and a gang bonus providing survey/logistics (tractor beam) ship. What this devblog seems to imply, is that this uber-mining ship is capable of almost solo-operation (jump capable, hauler, mining fighters, ore compression); even scarier is the clone vat and extensive hangar - it doesn't take a genius to see that it can ferry a bunch of hulks and pilots out into space. I bet a good amount of ISK that in six months we start seeing 0.0 macro miners/farmers using this sort of ship, fitted with a cloak, and positioned 200km off the belt. Quite simply, unless the limits I stated at the start of my post are heard, this ship is too powerful. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Lord Nighthawk Oser's Shipping and Manufacturing Inc. Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.08.03 08:08:00 - [58] Mining barge 5 and Capital ships 4 the only ships pre-reqs? Please tell me your joking, right? *No way* should someone who can't even fly a Hulk be able to fly this. Add Exhumers 3 at minimum, although I'd say lvl 5 would be A LOT more appropriate. A brand new character that is a specialized Miner((rough Eve mon skill plan Est.)) only needs 172Days and change to fly the quintessential mining ship in the game?!?!? Albeit not all that well, but still, that doesn't sit well with me.. at all. Now add Exhumers 5 and Astrogeology 5, it becomes a slightly more reasonable 228days and change. Still seems to short, Why do I have this feeling Marco miners will be all over this.
Per Bastet Amarr B.O.O.M	Posted - 2007.08.03 08:08:00 - [59] Holy Mother of Bast. starts planning
Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.03 08:19:00 - [60] Can we get any official word on whether or not this is considered a supercap? The blog says it'll cost the same as a carrier (which is good!), but it will also be able to use a clone vat. So in other words, will this ship be able to dock or will it be stuck in space like Motherships and Titans? Also, there are no mention of the "mining fighters" in the dev blog. Can we get some info on those too? As for the rest of the stats (cargo room, etc...) I know those will probably be tweaked before release, but can you give us a general idea of what to expect? ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!
Toqua Caldari Antares Frontier The Fifth Race	Posted - 2007.08.03 08:27:00 - [61] Yes, I agree with one of the foreposters... Chribba should get a special permit for Amarr for this ship... basically, just to stop him from torturing that poor Dread.... :-) When this ship is capable of tanking down any spawn in a belt, giving all and everyone some bonuses and frees up the need to have dedicated Hauler (who can then ALSO mine ... ) YES, PLEASE. What some people oversee here is, that this ship is a Mining _SUPPORT_ ship... not a Mining ship... so: having one of these is nice in the way that you can stow your combat ships in the bay... and when some grievers come in, looking for nice juicy hulks to kill, they are in for a surprise (like a tank they can not break easy and a squad of angry mining people who hopped in the PVP ships of the Bay I LIKE the change of odds here) T. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
JamesTalon Caldari Electric Fury Corp	Posted - 2007.08.03 08:28:00 - [62] Even if they added the exhumer requirement, I'm still only a couple weeks training from this baby "Return with your shield, or on it."
John McCreedy Caldari Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2007.08.03 09:26:00 - [63] At the risk of sounding like a kill-joy, I have a concern over the fact it will cost as much as a Carrier yet have a Clone Bay. That's a serious inbalance against Motherships which cost 30x as much to buy and are the cheapest combat vessel to have a clone bay. Even if you factor in the cost of building a clone bay, it will still be significantly cheaper than a Mothership. So, question is, what's to stop people using these as a mini-mothership? It can fit gang modules so no reason why you can't fit combat ones and it looks as though it can fit fighter sized Mining Drones so no reason why you couldn't use Fighters instead. This then again creates the same situation we had years ago with Battleships, a vessel designed for combat, being used for mining, only this time in reverse. I do not want to see Carriers getting Clone bays because that belittles the role of a Mothership so how do you plan to address this? Make a Difference
Xue Ling	Posted - 2007.08.03 09:27:00 - [64] Mmm. So this is what happy feels like. I get a big cargo bay, I can do hauler runs from 0.0 to empire.. AND, I get teh clone vat bay, the one feature I loved about motherships. .. time to actually dole out for the cap skills.
Hammar Wolf	Posted - 2007.08.03 09:33:00 - [65] I'm not a miner, but I think this thing needs mining fighters or some kind of capital class mining beam. It also needs a giant beacon for the rest of us so we know where the juiciest target in Eve is at all times.
Caol UK Corp FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.03 10:14:00 - [66] Looks really good, apart from one detail: the gang modules. As one poster has stated: Originally by: Paddlefoot Aeon From the blog: # The Laser Optimization link will have the ice harvesting and gas cloud harvesting duration bonus added. # The Ice Harvesting link will be changed to provide a bonus to the capacitor need of mining lasers, ice harvesters and gas cloud harvesters. and " # Drone Coordination has been broken since inception due to the nature of the gang bonus system. This module has been changed to provide a bonus to mining laser, ice harvester and gas harvester range." The extra range of the drone coordination module is interesting, but if this module is to affect a mining lasers range to the same degree as other ganglinks effect their stats ie.a 29% increase on the laser range, this ganglink will increase a strip miner II range from 15km to 19.35km. Not really that much of a difference is it . Of course, you may have a plan to change the numbers so this point maybe redundant. Also, the ice, laser and gas cloud harvester cap reduction is a little strange and smells of a late night session in the office with the final conclusion being "we couldn't figure out what else to give it". ItÆs a bonus to cap use but cap use was never really a problem in the first place. An increase to mining laser yield amount for ice, roid and gas cloud would be nice, but that may be too much of a buffàbut anything other than cap reduction please . On a related point, will the mining capital ship have a bonus to mining ganglinks, like the commmand ships do? ie. 3% increase in effectivness of all mining ganglinks?
Amira Silvermist The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.08.03 10:30:00 - [67] Originally by: Venkul Mul There is no hope for a command hulk capable of using 1 mining link, for the use of small corporations that mine with a group of 4-5 players? Why not use a BC? ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dufas Amarr freelancers inc	Posted - 2007.08.03 10:36:00 - [68] Congrats ccp you've just made the newest 'must kill' target ship ---------------------------------------- You have failed me yet again Starscream!
Terail Zoqial	Posted - 2007.08.03 10:57:00 - [69] Originally by: Dufas Congrats ccp you've just made the newest 'must kill' target ship Yah, who ever has one is really gonna leave one in a belt/system without some cobat ships to back it up Also it's not gonna bad as a freighter, I'm sure it will have slots for tanking anmd repping, also it will have fighters.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.03 10:58:00 - [70] Originally by: Caol and " # Drone Coordination has been broken since inception due to the nature of the gang bonus system. This module has been changed to provide a bonus to mining laser, ice harvester and gas harvester range." The extra range of the drone coordination module is interesting, but if this module is to affect a mining lasers range to the same degree as other ganglinks effect their stats ie.a 29% increase on the laser range, this ganglink will increase a strip miner II range from 15km to 19.35km. Not really that much of a difference is it . Of course, you may have a plan to change the numbers so this point maybe redundant. Not that you can get much more with a 23 km locking range, unless you boost the sensors too. Originally by: Caol Also, the ice, laser and gas cloud harvester cap reduction is a little strange and smells of a late night session in the office with the final conclusion being "we couldn't figure out what else to give it". ItÆs a bonus to cap use but cap use was never really a problem in the first place. An increase to mining laser yield amount for ice, roid and gas cloud would be nice, but that may be too much of a buffàbut anything other than cap reduction please . /signed
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.03 11:07:00 - [71] Originally by: Amira Silvermist Edited by: Amira Silvermist on 03/08/2007 10:37:20 Originally by: Venkul Mul There is no hope for a command hulk capable of using 1 mining link, for the use of small corporations that mine with a group of 4-5 players? Why not use a BC? Quote: Command Ships Skill Bonus: +50 m3 extra Drone Bay space and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Information Warfare Links per level Quote: Command Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret optimal range and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links per level ecc. Appy to use a BC if you can find one that: 1) mine like an hulk (it is doing a mining op, not a combat op) 2) has a bonus on the mining foremans links. If I am doing a 4 man mining operation, getting a "command-hulk", even at the cost of using a high slot of the hulk for a gang assist module, can be worthwhile. Using a BC with a mining set up isn't.
Algorithm 5 Caldari Hakata Group Blade.	Posted - 2007.08.03 11:13:00 - [72] What I don't quite understand about this ship, judging from the screenshots I've seen, is why does it use Hydrogen Isotopes as jump fuel? Beyond the fact that ORE ships typically align with Gallente technology (like with inventing hulks and so on) surely this would create a major increase in demand for those isotopes and bump up the prices to make Hydrogen Isotopes more expensive than the rest. Here's an idea, why not make the ORE capital ship use Heavy Water as a jump fuel instead? The stuff is has a base price of like 1000 but is down to 15 isk a unit in Jita. There's enormous stinking piles of the stuff for sale in Jita. Because while liquid ozone has a secondary use beyond powering POS (cyno generators etc) there is no secondary market for heavy water. Unlike an extra waste product in real life, there's NOTHING you can do with the stuff. If the ORE capital ship used Heavy Water as fuel, this might at least bring the value of the Heavy Water back up towards a reasonable pricing. Obviously it's not going to use it in the same number of units per jump as with isotopes, but it could at least be an economically equivalent amount (based on base prices perhaps?).
Hectaire Glade Forum Jockey	Posted - 2007.08.03 11:17:00 - [73] Based on those skill shots, the skill requirements seem a little light, but hey, i'm not complaining, the ship looks good and its a very welcome addition for the non-combat folks. Good Job CCP!
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.08.03 11:22:00 - [74] http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7264/caporeshipuz3.jpg "Indutrial Core" Uhm, spelling. Otherwise, its nice to see miners getting cap ships Its gonna need a lot of protection from PVP pilots, that thing is a HUGE target! ============================================ NOS change based on %regen
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.08.03 11:23:00 - [75] Holy screaming batman \O/ my alt will love this ship Btw I don't think it having a clone vat bay is overpowered, (possibly make the clone vat bay only active when in its siege mode?). Also Im sure CCP would prenerf it (HP and resistance wise) so it doesn't get used as a cheap mom with a clone bay. But otherwise nice one CCP glad to see that the miners are getting some love. cough Fix drone AI cough Originally by: Rawne Karrde PVP in EvE is consentual, you agree to it when you login. If you don't like it you're in the wrong game.
Zikka The Establishment	Posted - 2007.08.03 11:24:00 - [76] Originally by: Lord Nighthawk Mining barge 5 and Capital ships 4 the only ships pre-reqs? Please tell me your joking, right? *No way* should someone who can't even fly a Hulk be able to fly this. Add Exhumers 3 at minimum, although I'd say lvl 5 would be A LOT more appropriate. A brand new character that is a specialized Miner((rough Eve mon skill plan Est.)) only needs 172Days and change to fly the quintessential mining ship in the game?!?!? Albeit not all that well, but still, that doesn't sit well with me.. at all. Now add Exhumers 5 and Astrogeology 5, it becomes a slightly more reasonable 228days and change. Still seems to short, Why do I have this feeling Marco miners will be all over this. It is a tech 1 ship, not tech 2. It has no ewar immunity and is locked in spot in a belt for 10 minutes if you use it and is only usable in low sec/0.0. Speaking as a pirate if macros start using it then YAARRRRR! You are also missing that it is a mining support ship, not a mining ship. I see no bonus to allow it to use strip miners. How many turret hardpoints do you think it will have? This is not going to compete with a hulk - it is going to compliment one. You have one of these in a belt and 5 or 10 hulks chugging away on the ore while it reels in the cans and compresses them, then at the end of the op jumps it back to the nearest station for refining. Oh, and excellent suggestion on the heavy water Algorithm 5. To the devs: I have one question. These assembly lines, can they only be used to compress ore or can we compress minerals in them? Build ammo and modules in them? Can POS refineries refine the Ore?

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.03 11:56:00 - [77] Some quick answers, Will there be mining fighters? No, but not ruling out their introduction in a future patch. can this ship use normal stargates or is it limited to low sec? It is a capital ship so is limited to low sec (0.0 - 0.4) Capital tractors? Does that mean we get med and large ones too? And will other caps be able to fit capital tractors? Not in this patch, and only the ORE capital ship can fit the capital tractor beam. Can it fit mining lasers ? Does it get the bonus to number of drones, when combined with a very small drone bay would preclude use of fighters. It cannot fit mining lasers, It will have a drone bay with the intention of being able to store and use some heavy drones for eg for some defense but will defintly not use fighters. I suggest you change the name of the "Ice Harvesting" link, because it will now effect all mining, not just ice harvesting, and there is a large potential for misunderstandings. The names are being changed of course. Could we get the stats before it is released on TQ When we arrive at the release candidate after final balancing is completed following feedback here. The ship will be added to the market so you will be able to view its stats fully then. will the ship maint array be able to fit more than only 2 hulks? 4 would be nice for a good mining op! The volumes of the mining barges and exhumers have been reduced by 50,000m3 and provisionally we are looking at 3-4 hulks worth of ship maintenance bay. I have a concern over the fact it will cost as much as a Carrier yet have a Clone Bay In all honesty, we have not seen much use (if any) of this function on moms and titans, as its application is fairly limited (perhaps a good reason to look at it again in the future and give it a two way functionality). In terms of the goal of this ship, which is nomad mining operations and logistical support. It suits that role perfectly allowing someone to scout out a nice quiet system, pop a cyno, jump the ORE cap ship in, rest of the gang jump clone in and board the hulks and start mining whilst the ORE cap most likely sets up a small starbase. The goal is very much to empower small operations to operate in unsafe areas of space where getting down into that space is dangerous for smaller gangs. The maximum number of jump clones allowed on the ship is limited to 5 currently. The cost is still subject to balancing alongside the other stats follwing feedback here. will the mining capital ship have a bonus to mining ganglinks, like the commmand ships do? ie. 3% increase in effectivness of all mining ganglinks? currently 5% per ship skill level with additional bonus when the industrial core is active. Will the ship be able to dock? yes.

Ralitge boyter Minmatar Mordus Angels	Posted - 2007.08.03 12:03:00 - [78] Well I guess I'll kiss my carrier goodby I finaly have a real reason for wanting to fly capital ships... this thing sounds at least like it is what has been missing. A real mining dedicated ship that is able to move the ore and not just produce it. A few more questions though: - These skills what are the ranks - These skils what are the prereq. skills - Will the compression use fuel/cap - Will there be fighter sized mining drones - How much ore can this baby hold with maxed out skills - Will it do highsec like freighters - Can we dock it at a station or it is POS based - When does ORE expect this thing to start making its grand entrance And last but not least I LOVE YOU CCP !!! ------------------------------------------- Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me.
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.08.03 12:06:00 - [79] Originally by: Lord Nighthawk Mining barge 5 and Capital ships 4 the only ships pre-reqs? Please tell me your joking, right? *No way* should someone who can't even fly a Hulk be able to fly this. Add Exhumers 3 at minimum, although I'd say lvl 5 would be A LOT more appropriate. A brand new character that is a specialized Miner((rough Eve mon skill plan Est.)) only needs 172Days and change to fly the quintessential mining ship in the game?!?!? Albeit not all that well, but still, that doesn't sit well with me.. at all. Now add Exhumers 5 and Astrogeology 5, it becomes a slightly more reasonable 228days and change. Still seems to short, Why do I have this feeling Marco miners will be all over this. It's a T1 ship, not T2. Hence it does not require a T2 skillpath. Once we see T2 capitals though.... What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Inflexible InNova Tech Inc	Posted - 2007.08.03 12:07:00 - [80] Edited by: Inflexible on 03/08/2007 12:12:23 It look nice, but I'm concerned about economical consquences. It potentialy can make minerals and ice much cheaper, which means more T1 ships and POS. -> bigger and uglier blob & POS warfare. Real prices of battleships are now aproximately 15% lower than base prices, which means that insurance company pays you new ship and half of the insurance back today. We are not far from having completely free T1 ships. So, quick question: Did CCP considered this?
Marie Mahro Conflagration Mining	Posted - 2007.08.03 12:22:00 - [81] Since we are getting answers, I will pose these questions. Why do we need Exhumers 5 to fly this Capital ship? The problem comes from the fact that the Mining Barge skill is only rank 4 and the Exhumer skill is rank 5. The Cruiser skill on the other hand is rank 5 and Battleship is rank 8. To train to fly a Capital ship should take longer than only needing Level 5 on a rank 4 skill, because right now you need level 5 on a rank 8 skill to fly a Carrier. This is, of course, not taking into account any other skill requirements. Will there be a revamp in the Industrial skill tree? Would CCP consider the tough line in changing the rank level for industrial training or create a new skill? i.e. Requirement would be mining barge 4 and new skill level 5 (Rank 8) You have a tough fight ahead of you CCP, but try to consider a scalable approach to the industrial skill tree finishing in a Titan class Industrial Super Capital. Something like a mobile POS would have everyone in EVE training like made. Still I like the proposed ship and industrialists and pirates alike will enjoy this addition to EVE.
John McCreedy Caldari Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2007.08.03 12:22:00 - [82] Thanks for addressing the concern, Chronotis. Make a Difference
Xthril Ranger hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.03 12:35:00 - [83] Originally by: CCP Chronotis I have a concern over the fact it will cost as much as a Carrier yet have a Clone Bay In all honesty, we have not seen much use (if any) of this function on moms and titans, as its application is fairly limited (perhaps a good reason to look at it again in the future and give it a two way functionality). In terms of the goal of this ship, which is nomad mining operations and logistical support. It suits that role perfectly allowing someone to scout out a nice quiet system, pop a cyno, jump the ORE cap ship in, rest of the gang jump clone in and board the hulks and start mining whilst the ORE cap most likely sets up a small starbase. The goal is very much to empower small operations to operate in unsafe areas of space where getting down into that space is dangerous for smaller gangs. The maximum number of jump clones allowed on the ship is limited to 5 currently. The cost is still subject to balancing alongside the other stats following feedback here. This ship will be able to take over the role that motherships and titans have as a forward base at the fraction of the cost and none of the cannot dock penalties. If you give it the selling points of the supercapitals you should give it the cost too. The cloning vat bay is about 1.3 billion(?) of the build cost on a mothership. There should be a use for multiple ships of that type in a group when it is as cheap as a carrier. Either make it expensive and powerful enough (in an industrial way) to be a corporate goal or give it roles and abilities (mining lasers or drones) so multiple people could use it in a mining op. . you'll never jump alone
Alakazam Bob The Builder Breidablik	Posted - 2007.08.03 12:38:00 - [84] What fuel will it use? What will it look like?
Two step Amarr Chosen Path FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.03 12:44:00 - [85] Is the ship intended to replace carriers in the jump-hauling role? It sounds liek it will have more ship maintenence space, what about corp hanger/cargo? What about jump range?
Caol UK Corp FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.03 12:46:00 - [86] Edited by: Caol on 03/08/2007 12:46:41 Originally by: CCP Chronotis will the mining capital ship have a bonus to mining ganglinks, like the command ships do? ie. 3% increase in effectiveness of all mining ganglinks? currently 5% per ship skill level with additional bonus when the industrial core is active. Thats great, the laser optimization link will now be a must fit module giving a further 25% reduction in mining duration to a maxed out pilot! Expanding on Haladas' mining guide, a pilot with Warfare Spec V, Mining Director V, the Mining Mindlink and the ORE Cap ship skill to V will get a 28.125% increase on link effectiveness (from 1.29*1.25). Or, a reduction in mining duration of 1/(1-0.28125) = 1.391 or 39.1%. In other words a ~ 10% boost to miner yield. Well worth having the ship in gang and thats without the industrial core being active
Mona X Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.03 12:46:00 - [87] BPO will be seeded in Outer Ring only or everywhere? Will she require new Capital Components?
Bumbum George	Posted - 2007.08.03 12:48:00 - [88] Can you please make it mine a whole belt by simply staring at it for 3 minutes. Like a homage to Chuck Norris who can do the same only much faster, and with a beard!!
MellaRinn Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.08.03 12:57:00 - [89] absolutely sweet, tbh My Vids - Click
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:05:00 - [90] Edited by: Audri Fisher on 03/08/2007 13:04:52 Nice, can capital tractor beams tractor in small ships? pretty please?
Darian Hazedango Dawn of a new Empire Pure.	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:13:00 - [91] WHEN? :D
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:41:00 - [92] "The Ice Harvesting link will be changed to provide a bonus to the capacitor need of mining lasers, ice harvesters and gas cloud harvesters. " NO NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT DO THIS CHANGE UNLESS YOU ADD AN ICE MINING LASER TIME MOD. A cap use mod is so UTTERLY USELESS its not even FUNNY!!!!! weeps for days on end
Broken Star Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:41:00 - [93] Edited by: Broken Star on 03/08/2007 13:42:13 Tell me the skill requirements... please! I must get started training... Also, its looks like CCP took my advice: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=458166&page=8#240 LOL... Thanks for the info! --- I'm an alt, I admit it.
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:47:00 - [94] Originally by: Hohne Originally by: James Duar What's the skillset for this ship going to be like? Will it require Exhumers 5 as it once seemed, or only Mining Barge 5 etc. Exhumers is a T2 skill. No T1 ship has ever required a T2 skill, so it was only the wishful thinkers that wanted this. It'll require plain old Mining Barge V + some other skills. TBH I'm thinking at the penalty of being stuck for 10 minutes (or more) in a belt, these things will just sit @ POS's giving out bonuses, only jumping in at the end to 'maybe' fire one cycle to collect and compress... Dreads are something that we accept a 10 minute risk for. As you more or less must use them to avoid losses of other ships,.... Will miners accept that same vunerability for what seems like not alot of gain? You are wrong actually, logistics is a t2 skill and is required for the use of the carrier seige mod. Tho its only a technicality since the skills is not actually need to fly the ship, just use one of its features.
Trojanman190 Caldari Murder-Death-Kill Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:47:00 - [95] Originally by: Bumbum George Can you please make it mine a whole belt by simply staring at it for 3 minutes. Like a homage to Chuck Norris who can do the same only much faster, and with a beard!! Oh MAN thats a funny image...
Mainreh Rhonaki Jazz Associates R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:47:00 - [96] Edited by: Mainreh Rhonaki on 03/08/2007 13:47:53 I am much more interested in the compression process. Compressing minerals into certain types of equipment (wonder how many 9s you need to describe the percentage of passive targetters that are built solely for mineral transport?) is a very important mechanism of Eve industry. Can those BPs be used in a station, outpost or POS? I hope that they can and that they are at least as effective as currently favoured item BPs.
AlterEgor	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:50:00 - [97] Great - another bone thrown to the large Alliances and NOTHING for us hard-working miners in Empire! This sucks!
Vladimir Tinakin Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:57:00 - [98] Edited by: Vladimir Tinakin on 03/08/2007 14:02:10 Few points/questions: - Will this be tier-1 carrier cost in build reqs? A mothership is technically a carrier too and it was modeled after the nyx (even if a placeholder)...just want clarification that you can build one of these without the supercap restrictions. - Will the "indutrial" () core give even a minor tanking bonus similar to the way siege and triage modules do? I understand that this isn't a combat ship so I wouldn't expect a dread tank, but glueing the ship in place for 10 minutes makes it a juicy target. Anything less than a blob around it means its pretty vulnernerable to "Drive-bys". If it has no special tank, then expect these to operate like carriers used to--POS hugging only. - As far as the clone bay goes: if the ship is expected to carry enough space for 4 hulks with a 50k reduction in volume on them, it's still not enough for one battleship. This should reduce the use of the ship as a cheap forward base; you could carry interceptors and a few hacs, and thats about it. Intie/hac gangs typically have the easiest time getting 'behind the lines' anyway so you're needlessly risking a few billion in ships for the convenience. Maybe in a few situations it would be advantageous, though. -The ore compression looks like a nice feature. Will the compression rate vary with the ore? 1/20 compression on ark may let you carry 20x the amount of ore, but its still not much (as opposed to how many refines of kernite you could pack in the same space) -More later as I think about it. ----------------------------------------------- Adm Vladimir Tinakin CFO Hadean Drive Yards
Corphus Aliastra	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:57:00 - [99] Please whip asgeir to start working on the concept arts for this thing and post em on his portfolio site! ffs i already started drawing sketches for one !!!
Vladimir Tinakin Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.08.03 14:01:00 - [100] Originally by: AlterEgor Great - another bone thrown to the large Alliances and NOTHING for us hard-working miners in Empire! This sucks! The hulk is the biggest bone empire-based people can expect. This ship was designed for one of the few gaps in mining left--transportation of ore and mining coordination in deep space where the nearest refinery that isn't a crappy POS can be 10 hops away. In empire you rarely have to leave system, let alone go more than 2-3 jumps. The new mining links will work just as well in empire as in 0.0...you just need a buddy in a commandship or battlecruiser to use them. Which is recommended anyway, given the amount of lame wannabe....er, ore thieves that empire produces. ----------------------------------------------- Adm Vladimir Tinakin CFO Hadean Drive Yards
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.03 14:06:00 - [101] Oh, I'd also like to note while this ship does address the gap in mindlinks for the mining profession. I'd be willing to bet that alot of leadership types would still love a mining type command ship that just did mindlink bonus. This would help to balance out the field a bit as the cost to get into a mining cap ship is high, while the cost for a command ship is moderate. Loosing a cap ship vs a command ships is much harder.
Ulviirala Vauryndar Gallente Cohortes Stellaris Blade.	Posted - 2007.08.03 14:29:00 - [102] Edited by: Ulviirala Vauryndar on 03/08/2007 14:30:05 My first thought was "WOW! So its true... the rumoured screenshot is not fake. WOOT!". But after reading the entire blog and comment thread, I started thinking what I'm supposed to do with "the improvements to mining" when rubbing my lazy ass in the seat of my barge in a 0.7? "The improvements to mining" blog mention a cap-sweety with tremendous features, some foremen changes and scanner changes and a capital tractor beam. Is that all? In all respect but this just can't be everything you considerd to improve mining for the little guy, this ship is by no means supposed for solo mining, this is clear. Where is the opposite of the countless mod modules for fighting, the old-style named mining lasers or named strip miners? Where is the reasoning that there are no mining/industrial rigs but the Cargohold Optimization and general rigs like velocity or cap related? We can't even overload stuff :P "You are scratching the surface (literally) of changes to the mining profession", but rocks are hard. I'm kinda disappointed :P Sincerely yours Ulviirala Vauryndar Oke Cortes, I "gif" up. You won. 400x80 @ 23,239 bytes ^_^
Darian Hazedango Dawn of a new Empire Pure.	Posted - 2007.08.03 14:56:00 - [103] Originally by: Ulviirala Vauryndar We can't even overload stuff :P ... You seriously need to overload mining lasers? You MAY want to double check your fitting if that's the case. :P
Tankred Hauteville Ad Astra Vexillum Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.08.03 15:01:00 - [104] I really hope you, CCP, will create a new body for this ship. Don't give it one of the existing carrier bodies! THX - -

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2007.08.03 15:06:00 - [105] It's going to be sweet to return from vacation and start counting the days until this ship gets released =) Surfing via cellular is teh pwn... not. Help me help you .

Vitrael Warriors of the Einherjar Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.08.03 15:10:00 - [106] Please, please, PLEASE don't allow this ship in high sec. -------------------- The day of the nos boat is over. The day of the frig is upon us!
MrDetermination Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.03 15:11:00 - [107] The pre-reqs on this are nonsense. This is a super-tanker/leadership boat (and effectively uber-hauler) that has pre-reqs you'd normally only have trained on a miner/indy char. So if you have a hauler on one account, indy on another and leadership on another... too bad, you have to add most of that to your leadership toon too. I have three accounts. First has a Leadership character that has Mining IV and tech I mining drones that adds a little bit to my "solo" yield via his own BC mining but the bigger benefit is the bonus to the second char. The second is a max hulk. The third is the hauler. This is "optimal" for three accounts and the only thing that comes close is upgrading the leadership char to a Rokh, but that can't make up for the difference lost when dropping the gang module due to no longer being in a BC. My first reaction to this news was "Yay, I'll train my Hulk pilot for this". Then I saw how it will be used and I thought "No, it really makes more sense for my Leadership character to fill this role". Then I looked at the pre-reqs again and realized I have no desire to go train a bunch of Industrial skills that my leadership character already has and conversely also no desire to train my Industrial character up on the Leadership bonuses. I can not go down this path without knowing how much actual ore it will be able to transport after compression. In other words, if it can take my optimal three client ISK/hr earn rate from 70m to 150+m, then yes, I suppose I'll have to go that route. In other words, it is too early to divert skill time.
Jack Target Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.08.03 15:46:00 - [108] I think this will be a fantastic addition!
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.08.03 15:47:00 - [109] Needs to lose the clonebay tbh, and then comes the question of risk... If you are going to allow them to assign mining drones to people, they're going to just sit at a POS while others mine happily away - if that's the case, make them lose the jumpdrive. Alternatively, if they have to be deployed in a belt as they couldn't assign mining drones, then let them keep their jumpdrive - they need to be vulnerable in some way. Its not me wanting to gank one, its the fact that if you want to mine in 0.0, even in supposedly alliance "secured" 0.0, if someone has the ability to run through that territory and find you they should be able to attack. Probably having this fall of deaf ears though, everything lately seems to be "invulnerable" if you have POSes or Sovereignty .
Del Torres Caldari A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.08.03 15:53:00 - [110] I really liked to know if those will replace Carriers as logistic ship. So: - will the jumprange be less, equal or higher then a carrier ? Since 3-4 hulks are meant to fit into it, it seems like 2 ity5 would do aswell :)
ToxicFire Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.08.03 16:03:00 - [111] right who do i send the crate of beer to, thank for this. Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
Duhmad IbnRa Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.03 16:05:00 - [112] Originally by: Riley Craven Edited by: Riley Craven on 03/08/2007 14:00:36 "The Ice Harvesting link will be changed to provide a bonus to the capacitor need of mining lasers, ice harvesters and gas cloud harvesters. A cap use mod is so UTTERLY USELESS its not even FUNNY!!!!! Edit: While I still think this mod will be useless I just realized that you arent taking away my coveted ice mining duration mod, just changing it to another one... weeps tears of joy True, cap use mod is useless, increase mining amount or something _________________________________________________ For more players and action in lowsec
SIR PRIME Minmatar Equinox Eternal Enterprises	Posted - 2007.08.03 16:26:00 - [113] Where will the construction BPO's be sold?
AS Patriot StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.08.03 16:28:00 - [114] YEHAA!!! MotherF&/((er (/amn yeah About time CCP Thanks for it baby __________________________________________________ Flying and building for Sign up now
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.08.03 16:32:00 - [115] Originally by: Duhmad IbnRa Originally by: Riley Craven Edited by: Riley Craven on 03/08/2007 14:00:36 "The Ice Harvesting link will be changed to provide a bonus to the capacitor need of mining lasers, ice harvesters and gas cloud harvesters. A cap use mod is so UTTERLY USELESS its not even FUNNY!!!!! Edit: While I still think this mod will be useless I just realized that you arent taking away my coveted ice mining duration mod, just changing it to another one... weeps tears of joy True, cap use mod is useless, increase mining amount or something It will be nice to have a single module to boost cycle time for all harvesters, instead of needed to pick the right one. Saddly the cap and range bonuses are nearly useless. Unfortunately I can't think of any other worth while ming gang bonuses. I think I figured out why there is no gang module that gives a bonus to mining yield: the Mining Foreman skill provides that bonus. No commandlink modules duplicate the bonus provided by gang skills. Please have the new capital ship provide a bonus to the Mining Foreman skill effectiveness as well as the commandlink modules. If you aren't going to have the capital ship provide a bonus to Mining Foreman effectiveness, please change Mining Foreman to provide one of the useless bonuses (I vote for the range bonus) and have the module provide the yield bonus. Quote: No misfortune is so bad that whining about it won't make it worse
Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.03 16:42:00 - [116] Edited by: Borgholio on 03/08/2007 16:43:52 Originally by: CCP Chronotis Some quick answers, Beautiful! Thanks for the updates! ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!
Illuminatis	Posted - 2007.08.03 17:02:00 - [117] This whole idea is pretty neat but I have one major gripe.. please see if this logic can be used: Dreads can fire big guns Carriers have lots of fighters ORE ship has.... oops nothing of its own... This ship should not be born without have capital mining lasers. Period. The current setup makes it completely useless without people jumping into its vat, thats the perview of moms not "normal" cap ships. I like the mining fighters idea (always have wanted them) but then people will just making mining carriers and not bother with the ORE ship at all. Perhaps a fancy "Capital Mining Array", and "Capital Ice Array" that uses a cap turret high that sends out 10 or so strip miner beams and just mines everything in sight out to 100km or something. And why a clone vat instead of something that makes sense like a mobile refining array. Maybe just allow us to fit the starbase arrays. One could even concieve of the ship being able to fit a moon mining array. This would allow mobile moon mining, greatly increasing the fun and flexibility of getting into T2 manufacturing.. when you just need that one ore type that your POS doenst get. Some suggestions. I was really excited for this ship and am sorta dissapointed that it cant do anything useful by itself. Thanks for reading!
Altaree Red Frog Investments Daikoku Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.03 17:27:00 - [118] Illu, It sounds like you want to solo in one when these are purpose built to be the leader of a mining operation.
Alan Ratkiller Storm Executive	Posted - 2007.08.03 17:29:00 - [119] Sort of at last..but only sort of. OK a big boost for gang or in otherwords corp mining, plus those few people who can actively run 3 chars at a time and get them all out of a belt if a hostile appears. The bad thing being that no matter how it gets looked at it is still no boost for carebear empire miners. The low secs with stations are all greatly lived in with varying degrees by pirate corps or 0.0 alliances protecting their cap ship routes in and out of 0.0. Where is the boost to the high sec miners? There are many of us around ho ould luv to actually be able to make isk in high sec rather than running big risks in low sec to us peeps who got p****d at corporate or alliance politics or have such slow connections due to where we live that living in 0.0 is not an option. SURNET U ROCK
Wizzkidy Demonic Retribution Pure.	Posted - 2007.08.03 17:56:00 - [120] Originally by: Alan Ratkiller Sort of at last..but only sort of. OK a big boost for gang or in otherwords corp mining, plus those few people who can actively run 3 chars at a time and get them all out of a belt if a hostile appears. The bad thing being that no matter how it gets looked at it is still no boost for carebear empire miners. The low secs with stations are all greatly lived in with varying degrees by pirate corps or 0.0 alliances protecting their cap ship routes in and out of 0.0. Where is the boost to the high sec miners? There are many of us around ho ould luv to actually be able to make isk in high sec rather than running big risks in low sec to us peeps who got p****d at corporate or alliance politics or have such slow connections due to where we live that living in 0.0 is not an option. SURNET U ROCK Erm ever heard of risk v reward? you can't expect to make HUGe ISK in empire. I for one would like to see these in 0.0 only.
Lassombra World Order The Imperial Order	Posted - 2007.08.03 18:09:00 - [121] Fighter sized mining drones are a must. Would be fun to watch these huge drones go to work on roids. Over all great job CCP. Capital mining drones are a must though. Hope you can fit them in with the ship.
Dal Thrax Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.08.03 18:13:00 - [122] Originally by: Venkul Mul Very nice toy, but useful only for the big corporations and the alliances, that will mount mining ops with 20+ miners and 10+ bs/carrier as defence. There is no hope for a command hulk capable of using 1 mining link, for the use of small corporations that mine with a group of 4-5 players? You could always pool together with 4 or 5 other mining corps to run an op. In any five industrial corps at least one person is likely to have one of these caps just to have it. Dal Originally by: Seleene It seems to me that 'independence' is a relative term these days, determined mainly by the size and number of your guns.
The Economist	Posted - 2007.08.03 18:22:00 - [123] Balance Issue
Makrsh	Posted - 2007.08.03 18:32:00 - [124] I predict the following scenario: -A temporary POS will be put up and the ORE cap wil just be put there, safe behind shields, to deal out gang bonuses. -A hauler will be dropping ore cans at its feet, as the hulks eat through belts. Cans will be cycled once they near their decay-time. -At mining OP end, the Industrial Core will be run once, reducing the cost in Strontium, so that the ore may be compressed. Current cost in Strontium indicates 1M ISK per 10 min cycle. Just imagine the cost Strontium will have when these beasts start consuming it! - ORE Cap ship jump out, like the glorified hauler it really is. Wouldn't it all just be easier to give regular manufacturing arrays the ability to run the BPs and produce compressed ore? All in all, that's really the only perk this ship has to offer. It's too safe... Make us want to put the ship in the belts! Give it Capital Strip Miner modules!
Genarus	Posted - 2007.08.03 18:41:00 - [125] For those who didn't notice... it did not say anything about it mining but it being that of a pure industrial ship only being able to use tractor beams, gang mining modules, and a clone vat, the drone bay wouldn't go past 5km3 because they didn't say anything about mining drones specialized for that ship to mine. It is nothing more than a can scooper/ore compacter/clone vat/Assembly ship. Unless there is additional things they will say about it, It is pretty much a command ship with no guns on it except for what ever drones it has on it. So its nothing much but a mobile assembly array/ore compacter. This really isn't what i had in mind for a mining ship but is something to look for in the 1st production ship.
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.08.03 19:24:00 - [126] I like this. I like it a lot. Thanks for thinking of miners! :-) But. (You knew there was a "but", right?) Mining ops usually are not well defended, because every pilot not in a mining ship (and be it a battleship with 8 Miner IIs - that's more effective than the medium barge) reduces yield, and unless you expect problems, you want to maximize yield. The defense of 95% of the mining ops in low/nosec is being able to warp out as soon as a scout detects hostile forces close by. This capital ship makes this impossible due to the deployment mode. Which means that you have the option of having a 1b+ cap ship in a belt, virtually defenseless, for the benefit of not having 1-2 industrials collect the ore and haul it over to the cap ship that's sitting in a POS. So, unless you are in one of the 5% mining ops that do have a defense fleet around, you will not be able to use the majority of the nifty tools of this capital. :-(
Bagehi Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.03 20:09:00 - [127] Why put up a POS? It has the ability to sit 200km off a belt mining operation and pull cans in as they fill. The big question of whether or not they will be forced to sit in POSs is how long is the cycle time for the industrial core module? If it is 10 minutes, these will sit at POSs. If the industrial core also does some form of reinforced mode, it is possible they will venture out from POSs... but not too likely if the cycle time is 10 minutes. Perhaps if the industrial core's "special bonuses" were special enough and only effective within a 200km radius (to match with the tractor beam), then these beasts might be found in the belts. But, again, the cycle time needs to be short enough that it only needs to worry about a hunting fleet and not the threat of a fleet slowly forming to kill it (10 minutes would be enough time to assemble everything and the kitchen sink to throw at it).
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.08.03 20:18:00 - [128] Originally by: Bagehi Why put up a POS? It has the ability to sit 200km off a belt mining operation and pull cans in as they fill. The big question of whether or not they will be forced to sit in POSs is how long is the cycle time for the industrial core module? If it is 10 minutes, these will sit at POSs. If the industrial core also does some form of reinforced mode, it is possible they will venture out from POSs... but not too likely if the cycle time is 10 minutes. Perhaps if the industrial core's "special bonuses" were special enough and only effective within a 200km radius (to match with the tractor beam), then these beasts might be found in the belts. But, again, the cycle time needs to be short enough that it only needs to worry about a hunting fleet and not the threat of a fleet slowly forming to kill it (10 minutes would be enough time to assemble everything and the kitchen sink to throw at it). I cannot see why these things would ever be risked in a belt unless they had some amazingly juicy bonuses they could only add while there. Even then not so sure. Even if the ship costs a "mere" 1 billion ISK it'll be a big, fat target waiting to be ganked. Sounds like it'll cost a lot more though. It is cool what CCP is trying here and a long time coming but nevertheless I only see this being useful in remote and largely safe 0.0 space. In low sec, if that thing is stuck for any amount of time via its version of the siege module, it'll just die. Neat to be able to clone jump the miners in. Where do the guards come from? I really am excited for a capital ORE ship but as it stands this looks like it'll just be another handout for those with 0.0 space firmly under their control. For everyone else I cannot see risking it considering its benefits.
emepror Gallente The Holy Hand Grenades of Antioch	Posted - 2007.08.03 20:37:00 - [129] THANK YOU SO MUCH WOOT CAPITAL MINING VESSEL WOOT WOOT WOOT YAY
Satsuki Kakuri	Posted - 2007.08.03 20:38:00 - [130] so are these cap tractor beams going to be able to pull back the asteroids that have floated off grid? =)
musgrattio Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.03 21:35:00 - [131] Oh please guys. Yes, 0.0 miners get the most out of this ship... First off, you don't have to use the SMA for hulks. You could use it for BCs/HACs if you got attacked. Attacking this thing is like attacking a carrier, just not with fighters. Also, what's wrong with aligning this thing out when you get in belt? You can pull cans for a long ways, and warp out just as fast as the hulks. Basically this is a capital class super-industrial, and if you have no use for it then don't buy one. This makes me as excited as CCP fixing the deimos. Than you CCP :) Now just fix desynch/lag.............
Dr Bernard	Posted - 2007.08.03 21:36:00 - [132] Is the compressed ore limited to being stored only in the cap ship ? or can it be moved out to regular haulers ?
Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.03 22:40:00 - [133] Edited by: Borgholio on 03/08/2007 22:40:52 Regarding the Industrial Core, it's pretty clear how it works except in terms of compressing ore. I have two questions about that. 1. You say that blueprints are needed for the ore compression process. Is it one blueprint per ore type (Arkonor, Ochre, Ice, etc...), or one blueprint that handles all ice ore and one that handles all normal ore? Will the blueprints be easily (and inexpensively) available on the market or will they be somewhat rare and costly? 2. How will the actual ore compression process work? Does the ship load ore from a jetcan into the cargo hold and simply compress it there? If so, that sounds rather tedious. Carriers have a 3km3 cargo hold meaning you'd have to drag ore out of a jetcan and compress it 9 times in a row just for one can. Or will this ship have a large enough cargo / corp hangar bay to handle a full jetcan in a single pass? ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!
Inevitability Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.08.03 23:05:00 - [134] Will it give an additional bonus to the reduction in cycle time, not including mindlinks? *Please Contact In-Game For Winning Bids* Now Taking Freighter Service Contracts
KluTch	Posted - 2007.08.03 23:34:00 - [135] Edited by: KluTch on 03/08/2007 23:39:23 Edited by: KluTch on 03/08/2007 23:36:23 I'm a bit worried with the Maintence Array being so large. 2.5million from the pictures, thats 2 battleships and lots of cruisers etc. A carrier only has 500k. I can understand Barges size, and the need for this Larger bay. But I fear that by giving it the ability to hold more then a Carrier, Cost as much as a Carrier, and have a clone bay, will give it the ability to be used for small gangs to jump into systems and give them a small base of operations with in the system with little risk of getting there. I think it should have somewhere around 100-200k for maintenance bay, and instead of decreasing size of barges, give the ship a bonus to reduce the size of those ships when in the bay. This way it prevents the ship from being used as a cheap "mother ship". Also prevents the ship from have the ability to jam 10 haulers in it, and transports almost freighter size cargo back and forth. I think the ship should try its best not to remove freighters in the game all together, where they only are used in empire. Instead it should be focused strictly on mining aspects as to avoid it off setting other balance issues in game. This is how i imagine it. Carriers - Support for Fleet Combat. Provides Ships/Mods/Ammo Etc Dreads - Front Line Support. Does damage and lots of it. New Cap Ship - Mining Support. Provides Mining abilities and on site mineral compression? Freighter - CAPITAL TRANSPORT! Is this ship worthless now? It is a capital ship isn't it? Maybe instead of giving this new ship insane amounts of transport ability's just give the freighter a Mod that lets it jump and some small modifications for it. Mothership - A little bit of everything. If you ask me, Providing this mining ship with a clone bay, and 2.5 million ship maintenance bay. Then why don't Carriers Have this? You say its meant for a small group to jump into dangerous 0.0 system, mine and leave. Well what is the Carrier for? ......... To jump into a dangerous 0.0 system and FIGHT. I think the devs need to think about the stats on this ship very carefully, and not step on other ships roles. or make modifications to other ships as well. This new ship so far looks like it just does to damn much. I think yes we need a mining capital ship, but not this one. ItÆs a good start. But I imagine something like this. Carrier Jumps into system Provides ability for players to clone jump in get into ships and change mods and everything. Mining Capital Jumps in, and setups up. It has small maintenance bay most dedicated for barges see above should have a bonus to barges/exhumers. Give this a Clone Bay too... Carrier and Mining Ship has 5 clones each or so. This gives a place the "combat" fighters to jump to, then mining pilots jump to mining ship and get there mining gear. As miners Mine they drop cans full of ore. That is then dragged in via mining capital and compressed. Freighter, then jumps in, grabs compressed minerals and jumps out with da goods. Or once Mining Capital is Full it can jump out. Perhaps after 1 hour with a gang it reaches "near" full cargo, and is require to dump to a freighter or drop off in station or pos or whatever. Carrier is there to combat rats, and protect the gang. Hell , I know i'm getting a Bit off topic here but, I would like to see this as almost a "temporary" pos setup. Where the mining ship is the "core" of it. Maybe even setting up a small shield, that allows the miners/freighters to go in for cover IF something does happen. If a gang of enemies come into the system. The miners would move into the shield and drop there mining ships into the bay, where they then could "jump" clone out, or grab ships from the carrier to combat enemy's while the mining ship is stuck there. If they donÆt have combat ships they could just stay in the shield for protection and wait the battle out. Basically the Mining Ship will be stuck there for at up to 10 minutes.
KluTch	Posted - 2007.08.03 23:34:00 - [136] The shield might only be up when the mod is on to prevent exploits. The Carrier then would have the ability to transfer shields and cap to the mining ship. If it becomes under attack. The support pilots when the obviously attack the attackers and give the mining barge time to jump out. Or wait it out. Meh just my 2 centsà I got a little bit on a pedistool there haha.
johnrogers	Posted - 2007.08.04 00:52:00 - [137] Nag Nag Nag Please stop Nagging. I'm just thankful ccp decided to hear miners out and make them a capital ship. They addressed the issue without making it just a super micro mining ship(Thank You). Just as the dev said the ship is to get more miners into 0.0 space. It is perfect for a serious and well organized mining corp to make the jump from crowded empire to spread out 0.0 space. Organization will be the key to using these ships effectively. I love the whole idea of finding a nice system and setting up a pos to mine. People Nag that its not for care-bears and just large alliance this is B.S. Alliances will benefit because they will have every thing organized and you can do the same thing. Like someone said earlier partner with other mining corp and maybe a pvp corp for protection. Better yet with all the isk you can make from the rarer ores contract an experienced pvp corps to protect the system until you strip it. How will we make it to the system? Send out a freighter with what ever you need like cheap barges escorted by they pvp corps or you corps combat pilots. Cyno cap into system throw up pos. Let hulk pilots clone in and go to town. Pirates come in let pvp player add to there killboard. New kind of Merc Corps And those crying its a cheap mothership go buy one. If the ship turns out to be of any real value you know the prices will skyrocket in a week. Or ccp will nerf the thing to death. Much props for the person who gets the first kill.
MrJordanIOI Minmatar The Lantern Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.04 00:54:00 - [138] Originally by: Sakura Nihil Needs to lose the clonebay tbh, and then comes the question of risk... If you are going to allow them to assign mining drones to people, they're going to just sit at a POS while others mine happily away - if that's the case, make them lose the jumpdrive. Alternatively, if they have to be deployed in a belt as they couldn't assign mining drones, then let them keep their jumpdrive - they need to be vulnerable in some way. Its not me wanting to gank one, its the fact that if you want to mine in 0.0, even in supposedly alliance "secured" 0.0, if someone has the ability to run through that territory and find you they should be able to attack. Probably having this fall of deaf ears though, everything lately seems to be "invulnerable" if you have POSes or Sovereignty . Why lose the clonebay ? This is the very feature that will give any nomadic corp various means of infiltrating alliance's space and if not fight them, eat their precious ore. IOI
KluTch	Posted - 2007.08.04 01:28:00 - [139] Originally by: johnrogers Nag Nag Nag Please stop Nagging. I'm just thankful ccp decided to hear miners out and make them a capital ship. They addressed the issue without making it just a super micro mining ship(Thank You). Just as the dev said the ship is to get more miners into 0.0 space. It is perfect for a serious and well organized mining corp to make the jump from crowded empire to spread out 0.0 space. Organization will be the key to using these ships effectively. I love the whole idea of finding a nice system and setting up a pos to mine. People Nag that its not for care-bears and just large alliance this is B.S. Alliances will benefit because they will have every thing organized and you can do the same thing. Like someone said earlier partner with other mining corp and maybe a pvp corp for protection. Better yet with all the isk you can make from the rarer ores contract an experienced pvp corps to protect the system until you strip it. How will we make it to the system? Send out a freighter with what ever you need like cheap barges escorted by they pvp corps or you corps combat pilots. Cyno cap into system throw up pos. Let hulk pilots clone in and go to town. Pirates come in let pvp player add to there killboard. New kind of Merc Corps And those crying its a cheap mothership go buy one. If the ship turns out to be of any real value you know the prices will skyrocket in a week. Or ccp will nerf the thing to death. Much props for the person who gets the first kill. its obviously not perfect is CCP is looking for input on this forum. And assuming that if its has problems, it will get nerfed is stupid and puting things into a game with out balancing them first causes major damage to the overall game play. You dont just add something and see what happens when 100k people's game is at risk.
THEGREAT LOBO Infestation.	Posted - 2007.08.04 02:14:00 - [140] Nice. great idea for all the miners out there, can't wait to see them in use.(in a low sec near me)
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.08.04 03:37:00 - [141] Improvement suggestion: Make only ore compression dependent on being in the special deployed mode, and the cargo and survey scan range bonuses inherent ship bonuses. Reasoning: No one will put a 1b defenseless capital ship into a belt and deliberately make it unable to flee if hostiles get close. Also, the scan range bonuses are nice additions, but not that great to be worth spending ISK on strontium for that. Hence, people will use the deployed mode for compression only anyways. Making the scan range bonuses available without the deployed mode allows for the capital to be used in a belt, aligned, and thus relatively (but not totally) safe. Otherwise, it will be totally safe inside a POS.
johnrogers	Posted - 2007.08.04 03:52:00 - [142] Yeah Klutch but no matter how much they test it someone will find something they don't like. There will be multiple threads about every thing that is wrong simply because it doesn't do what that person wants it to do. Or someone will find an exploit for the ship and ppl will nag. I'm just saying I'm glad ccp is considering making a new industrial ship that they didn't have to make. I'll take it and find out the best way to use it. From what has been said so far I think it will be a great addition to any serious mining corp.
Jonny Miami	Posted - 2007.08.04 05:06:00 - [143] Edited by: Jonny Miami on 04/08/2007 05:11:26 Originally by: CCP Chronotis Some quick answers, Will there be mining fighters? No, but not ruling out their introduction in a future patch. can this ship use normal stargates or is it limited to low sec? It is a capital ship so is limited to low sec (0.0 - 0.4) and has to use a jump drive and a gang mate with a cynosural field to move between systems. Capital tractors? Does that mean we get med and large ones too? And will other caps be able to fit capital tractors? Not in this patch, and only the ORE capital ship can fit the capital tractor beam. Can it fit mining lasers ? Does it get the bonus to number of drones, when combined with a very small drone bay would preclude use of fighters. It cannot fit mining lasers, It will have a drone bay with the intention of being able to store and use some heavy drones for eg for some defence but will definitely not use fighters. I suggest you change the name of the "Ice Harvesting" link, because it will now effect all mining, not just ice harvesting, and there is a large potential for misunderstandings. The names are being changed of course. Could we get the stats before it is released on TQ When we arrive at the release candidate after final balancing is completed following feedback here. The ship will be added to the market so you will be able to view its stats fully then on sisi. will the ship maint array be able to fit more than only 2 hulks? 4 would be nice for a good mining op! The volumes of the mining barges and exhumers have been reduced by 50,000m3 and provisionally we are looking at 3-4 hulks worth of ship maintenance bay. I have a concern over the fact it will cost as much as a Carrier yet have a Clone Bay In all honesty, we have not seen much use (if any) of this function on moms and titans, as its application is fairly limited (perhaps a good reason to look at it again in the future and give it a two way functionality). In terms of the goal of this ship, which is nomad mining operations and logistical support. It suits that role perfectly allowing someone to scout out a nice quiet system, pop a cyno, jump the ORE cap ship in, rest of the gang jump clone in and board the hulks and start mining whilst the ORE cap most likely sets up a small starbase. The goal is very much to empower small gangs to operate in unsafe areas of space where getting down into that space is dangerous for smaller gangs. The maximum number of jump clones allowed on the ship is limited to 5 currently. The cost is still subject to balancing alongside the other stats following feedback here. will the mining capital ship have a bonus to mining ganglinks, like the command ships do? ie. 3% increase in effectiveness of all mining ganglinks? currently 5% per ship skill level with additional bonus when the industrial core is active. Will the ship be able to dock? yes. Thank you. It's perfect. And to all you whiners, nerfers, and all you wannabe armchair game designers, go away. Go ***** about sensor damps or cloaks or something.
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.04 05:41:00 - [144] Originally by: Algorithm 5 What I don't quite understand about this ship, judging from the screenshots I've seen, is why does it use Hydrogen Isotopes as jump fuel? Beyond the fact that ORE ships typically align with Gallente technology (like with inventing hulks and so on) surely this would create a major increase in demand for those isotopes and bump up the prices to make Hydrogen Isotopes more expensive than the rest. Here's an idea, why not make the ORE capital ship use Heavy Water as a jump fuel instead? The stuff is has a base price of like 1000 but is down to 15 isk a unit in Jita. There's enormous stinking piles of the stuff for sale in Jita. Because while liquid ozone has a secondary use beyond powering POS (cyno generators etc) there is no secondary market for heavy water. Unlike an extra waste product in real life, there's NOTHING you can do with the stuff. If the ORE capital ship used Heavy Water as fuel, this might at least bring the value of the Heavy Water back up towards a reasonable pricing. Obviously it's not going to use it in the same number of units per jump as with isotopes, but it could at least be an economically equivalent amount (based on base prices perhaps?). also heavy water can be mined in every 0.0 region. Join The Fight With Promo Today
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.08.04 05:57:00 - [145] Edited by: Nyphur on 04/08/2007 06:00:19 Originally by: Makrsh It's too safe... Make us want to put the ship in the belts! Agreed. This ship should be deployed in belts. Given the bonuses, that's clearly what was intended but that's not how it will be used. It'll just be a gang mod platform sitting at a POS because its only abilities that are restricted to the grid it's on are rubbish. Tractor beam range, tractor beam speed and survey/cargo scanner range are pathetic as actual bonuses. They just require no coding to implement and sound mining-related, which is probably why they were picked. CCP need to speak to some actual miners about the ship. It's restricted to lowsec and 0.0, where the main concern for mining ops isn't yield, it's safety. If this thing is going to consume strontium clathrates, it will need to either increase yield well in excess of the strontium cost or provide additional safety compared to a carrier to be worth it. This ship needs to be made desirable for lowsec as well as areas of 0.0 without arkanor. Currently those areas are worth less per hour to mine with maxed out specialised characters and gear than level 4 missions or ratting with a 2-month old raven alt. There are a few ways I see to rectify the situation and force people to put this ship in the belts where it belongs. Please bear with me while I list them and then go over them. 1) Remove the strontium cost and restrict the yield bonuses to grid-wide. 2) Give the ship more mining ability than a covetor in itself. or 3) Give the ship's gang's miners a major defensive advantage. #1 is important, in my opinion. If the bonuses will work from a POS, that's how people will use it. Why risk a billion isk of equipment when you don't have to in order to get the main benefit? Also, strontium use being removed is important as it maintains profitability in lowsec. I assume this is meant to attract corps to lowsec and 0.0 and it isn't meant to be just another toy for the big boys with fields of arkanor out the back. #2 is a terrible idea. This would promote gangs of these ships mining instead of one capital and a bunch of miner ships. I included this for completeness as it IS an idea that would cause people to deploy the ship in belts. #3 is something I'd like to talk about in greater detail. The main downside of mining in 0.0 and lowsec is risk to the miners. As has been suggested many times, this new ship could create a shield bubble similar to a POS when it enters deployed mode. The shield could be big enough to encompass a group of miners and some asteroids or it could just be used as a safespot for miners to warp to if trouble occurs. The shield would not be invulnerable, it would be the actual ship's shield and would have the same HP as the ship. The ship might get a bonus to shields when in deployed mode, but that's a balance matter. It would basically be the same as a POS shield, the ship's shield bubble would just be its shield but extended to surround the miners, who are typically weak mining barges. Ships would need standings or passwords to get in the same as a POS is currently. The fact that the shield bubble isn't invulnerable means that it's not a completely safe spot and it can't be used to stage military assets without risk, it just provides miners with the advantages a POS brings without the bother of using a POS. It provides enough benefit against roaming gangs to be useful, giving enough time to call in a few backup carriers and a staging area from which to cyno them in. Right now, I look at those ship stats and I think to myself "What is my motivation for deploying one of these in a belt?" and I'm not coming up with much. It removes the need to haul to a POS but consumes strontium and risks a 1b isk ship when it doesn't need to be risked. With the current stats, it could just warp in, tractor cans, warp out and compress the ore at a POS. There needs to be a reason to deploy these in a belt for the entire duration of a mining op. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Sarf Asgard Industries Safe And Fun Environment	Posted - 2007.08.04 06:22:00 - [146] a good sugestion for allowing the ore cap ship into 0.8 and lower space Idea - Sarf CEO, Director of Freighter construction. Miner of small balls of dirt.
John Doe	Posted - 2007.08.04 08:56:00 - [147] Hi Its nice to finally see a capital ship for industrial/miners. But from the posts here on it looks like to me, the skills to us it need adjusting. This should be a 'extension' of the skill set for a mining char. So to be able to use, the char should have high level mining skills, be it in the use of exhumers, mining skill etc. With the comments here that you will only need capital ships skill (and the needed skills for that) mean the ship can be used by anyone. We will end up with the situation in reverse of BS's being used for mining (always thought that was silly). The ship needs to be used with the correct skill set, and that should be a extension of the industrial tree (much like the skills required to make tech2 stuff). So for example, the char should need exhumers lvl 5 at the least to use it, along with all the other sills required. Of course looking at this, then the same rule should also apply to the combat capital ships as well, they should also be more turned to a combat char then just anyone with a capital ship skill. other then that its about time.
Victor Exima	Posted - 2007.08.04 09:28:00 - [148] Here are some thoughts I come up so far reading about this new capital ship type. As Im more of a commander than a miner I'll start with the mindlinks. The third mindlink could be for mining accuracy/precision (what ever you wanna call it). So that while using this link and extracting 100 m^3 of ore the asteroid would only lose 80m^3. Also as the harvested ice amount is not affected by the Mining Foreman -skill, I suggest that the reduction in cycle of the Ice Harvester should be greater than the other types of miners with the second mindlink. Now for the capital itself. As people at ORE are experts of using ore, Im sure that they have come up with a plan to use what ever isotopes can be refined from local icefields. This should solve possible imbalances in fuel awailability. I also think that there should be more icefields. Being able to mine itself or defend the op should be one of the abilities of this capital. Being able to cover the barges under its shield or at least multiply the amount of shields of barges in the gang would be a great passive defence. As an active defence a capital ship needs a capital weapon so it should be able to field 5 fighters or heavily bonused (in amount and damage) normal drones. EVE universe is supposed to be a harsh place to live in, so why wouldnt a capital 'barge' be ready to fight back. For the ability to mine a new type of drone needs to be created. The 'heavy harvester drone' would be my choise. Better than a miner II but lesser than Strip Miner I, would be my quess for a good balance. I've also come up with a vision that it could melt ice direcly into its cargo. This could be done directly or via a module. Personally I dont like the idea of clone jumping into deep 0.0 for the next 24 hours and having only a barge. Even with the compressing that cargohold/corp hangar will be filled long before time for the next jump is up. What then? You cant park your ship and pod yourself because all of the precious implants. Sitting there doing nothing isnt fun either. What I suggest is make the ship dockable by other ships. This way you can have more flexibility on your movement and not be tied to the size of a cargohold. If its too hard to implement, make it able to grab ships with it as it jumps for the objective. This will also help migration out of 'safe' space as you wont have to worry about camps at the chokehold systems. Ofcourse all the alliances will be unhappy but you can never please everybody. As for the skills Exhumer -skill is definately wrong here. If its not given the ability to mine, so seems to be the barge skill too. It's sort of industrial/ command ship mix more than a barge. As there arent any 'basic' compression ships out there there really isnt a ship skill suited to this situation. It has a command bonus so Mining Director -skill does apply but isnt a ship skill.
Mona X Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.04 09:45:00 - [149] Edited by: Mona X on 04/08/2007 09:47:41 Originally by: Borgholio 1. You say that blueprints are needed for the ore compression process. Is it one blueprint per ore type (Arkonor, Ochre, Ice, etc...), or one blueprint that handles all ice ore and one that handles all normal ore? Will the blueprints be easily (and inexpensively) available on the market or will they be somewhat rare and costly? http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0708/ore.jpg Originally by: KluTch I'm a bit worried with the Maintence Array being so large. blah blah So many words, so much waste. Read this
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.04 10:33:00 - [150] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 04/08/2007 10:33:37 Originally by: Dal Thrax Originally by: Venkul Mul Very nice toy, but useful only for the big corporations and the alliances, that will mount mining ops with 20+ miners and 10+ bs/carrier as defence. There is no hope for a command hulk capable of using 1 mining link, for the use of small corporations that mine with a group of 4-5 players? You could always pool together with 4 or 5 other mining corps to run an op. In any five industrial corps at least one person is likely to have one of these caps just to have it. Dal I love this kind of suggestions. Random get togheter of 4-5 corporation in a mining operation. LOL. Almost as good as seeking help for level 5 missions in local. In EVE you work only with people you trust, end eve then you are wary.
Marie Mahro Conflagration Mining	Posted - 2007.08.04 10:43:00 - [151] Edited by: Marie Mahro on 04/08/2007 10:43:32 ThatÆs a long time to make a copy A lot of people seem to think this tread is a wish list for the ideal industrial Capital Ship. The perfect industrial Capital ship will mine like 5 hulks, be EWar immune, can jump across EVE, have a clone vat bay, mobile refinery, tank 50 carriers and have its own doomsday device. So now we know the best industrial that everyone wants, lets now think of a viable industrial that won't crash the market, is an industrial counter-part the current line of capitals (i.e. Carriers and Dreads), and has the same advantages and disadvantages as its capital brothers. If we are to create a mining ship that is on the same level as carrierÆs and dreadnoughts, we have to carry the same benefits and floors to this new design. Also, since there are multiple types of carriers and dreadnoughts, there should also be multiple types of industrial class capital ships. What bonuses do current capital ships have within the game? Carriers: 1) Heavy damage, beating its little brother the battleship by maybe 2-1. 2) Heavy tanking, with the right setup, it could tank and light force (2-3 battleships) until downtime. 3) Jump drive over large distances (only with good skills) 4) Good cargo space (especially with a rigged Iteron mark 5) 5) Versatile (can be used for attacking, defending, hauling and mining) Dreadnoughts: 1) Very nice damage, although the target has to be very slow (under 20 m/s) 2) Very nice tank, although its not unlimited and if youÆve lost the fight, then kiss your dreads good bye. 3) Cheap to kit, when it comes to dreads, its all down to DPS and alpha strikes. Now the counter balance, what are the negative aspects of capital ships? 1) No EW immunity 2) Expensive to the average corp or small alliance. 3) CanÆt jump into High sec (but can dock at stations) 4) Needs an alt/gang member to jump to. Of course each race has advantages and disadvantages on top of these, but thatÆs the way the PVP world works. Now we have to design an industrial equal to the carries and dreads. Possible types of industrial capital ships? 1) Low jump distance but high end mining and tanking. (this option could have a large cargo bay, 200,00m3) 2) High jump distance but low end mining and tanking (small cargo bay, 100,000m3) 3) Support capabilities with mid range jump and mid range mining and tanking. (this option could have a mid range cargo bay, 150,000m3) The option should be available to the industrialist to choose what he wants to do, whether it is fleet based or solo. With regards to earlier points brought up in this topic: 1) A ship that is an industrial counter to the carrier and dreadnought class ship, should not be immune to EW. 2) If the ship has little way of defence (and I agree with this), it should make up with it in its designed role. For example, large cargo bay thatÆs unable to carry ships. 3) The industrial class carrier should be similar to 2 or 3 hulks in its mining yield. (this will make it similar to the carrierÆs 2-1 damage output over its battleship rival) 4) An industrial class capital ship should not be able to equip fighter drones. 5) This new industrial capital ship class should be similar in cost to its combat equivalent.
Marie Mahro Conflagration Mining	Posted - 2007.08.04 10:45:00 - [152] This, I believe, is an industrial counterpart to the current Capital line. Name: Behemoth Mk I (although I like the name Laviathon) Bonuses: 5% bonus to all shield resists per level 8% to Capital Mining Array cycle time per level 20% increase in cargo bay per level (at max skill the cargo space will be 500,000m3) 3% increase in jump drive activation range per level -99% bonus to Gang link modules Statistics: CPU: 725 PG: 750,000 High slots: 5 Medium slots: 4 Low slots: 4 Rig upgrade slots: 3 shield capacity: 130,000 Shield Em Damage Resistance: 0 Shield Explosive Damage Resistance: 60 Shield Kinetic Damage Resistance: 40 Shield Thermal Damage Resistance: 20 Shield recharge time: 17,000.00 sec Armor Hitpoints: 80,000 Armor Em Damage Resistance: 70 Armor Explosive Damage Resistance: 10 Armor Kinetic Damage Resistance: 25 Armor Thermal Damage Resistance: 35 Maximum Velocity: 75mps Drone bay capacity: 450 m3(canÆt use fighters) Cargo bay capacity: 250,000m3(canÆt carry ships) Mass: 692,500,000 kg Inertia modifier: 0.06 Volume: 25600000 m3 packaged Capacitor recharge time: 3,387.50 sec Capacitor Capacity: 50000 Maximum targeting range: 68 km Signature radius: 1500 m Max locked targets: 6 RADAR Sensor Strength: 0 LADAR Sensor Strength: 0 Magnetometric Sensor Strength: 60 Gravimetric Sensor Strength: 0 Kinetic dmg resistance: 0 Thermal dmg resistance: 0 Explosive dmg resistance: 0 EM dmg resistanceem dmg resistance: 0 Fusion Propulsion Strength: 0 Ion Propulsion Strength: 0 Magpulse Propulsion Strength: 0 Plasma Propulsion Strength: 6 Jump Drive Consumption Amount: 1000 Jump Drive Capacitor Need: 0.95 Calibration: 400 This could be one of four different types of industrial capitals, each one specialising in a different field. One could increase gang bonusÆs, another could have a shorter jump distance but stronger mining potential. It will not affect high sec mining as it canÆt enter 0.5 and above, also it has no defences so itÆs not able to help in a fight. The tank is enough to hold of a small attack or large spawn, but not enough to withstand a focused assault. It would be useful as a transport for Ore, but has less than half the cargo space than a freighter and is twice the cost. Most alliances would chose to use freighters in friendly space because it holds more, and can carry ships.
Marie Mahro Conflagration Mining	Posted - 2007.08.04 10:46:00 - [153] Edited by: Marie Mahro on 04/08/2007 10:47:38 Edited by: Marie Mahro on 04/08/2007 10:47:26 A siege module that allows the ship to compress ore would be the cherry on top. All of what I just wrote was covered in an older thread http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=508872&page=3
74l0nz Gallente MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.08.04 11:29:00 - [154] i noticed clone vat module will be added to this, only ships that can use those are motherships and titans. Does this mean that the Mining capital will be in the same class as MS's and Titans and have to be built at a pos with sov ?
Fatsam Madhatters Inc. M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.08.04 11:51:00 - [155] Edited by: Fatsam on 04/08/2007 11:50:57 I would like to see this ship's role as a 0.0 logistic ship, as well as a 'mining command ship'. Its large ship/corp array will make for hauling supplies into 0.0 potentially much less time consuming than using carriers. Not asking for anything overpowered, just that I would like to see it jump as far as carriers. Carrier hauling is such a boring, but unavoidable, part of 0.0 life. I don't think anyone would care if it's jump drive consumes 6-10 times as much isotopes; everyone agrees its just such a tedious feature of the game. And we do play this game for entertainment. The recent giant can nerf to carrier hauling made the game 30% less fun to play. Might not fit in with the backstory but would increase the games fun factor a great deal in my opinion.
Fatsam Madhatters Inc. M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.08.04 11:52:00 - [156] Originally by: 74l0nz i noticed clone vat module will be added to this, only ships that can use those are motherships and titans. Does this mean that the Mining capital will be in the same class as MS's and Titans and have to be built at a pos with sov ? They can dock, so could be built in outposts/stations the same way dreads/carriers can be I would suggest.
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.08.04 13:56:00 - [157] Originally by: Fatsam Originally by: 74l0nz i noticed clone vat module will be added to this, only ships that can use those are motherships and titans. Does this mean that the Mining capital will be in the same class as MS's and Titans and have to be built at a pos with sov ? They can dock, so could be built in outposts/stations the same way dreads/carriers can be I would suggest. Correct. The ORE capital ship is not a supercapital class ship. It is in no way related to motherships or titans and does not gain supercapital bonuses such as immunity to electronic warfare. Also, if you can fit battleship sized weapons on a frigate that specializes in this for combat purposes (cruise launchers on stealth bombers), then I don't see why you can't put a 'supercapital' module like the clone vat bay on a normal capital ship that specializes in having a clone vat bay for logistics purposes. As is, that module is hardly ever used anyway, and greatly limited in capacity (woo, 5 jump clones max). The one thing I want to know more about is how the compressed ore is handled. -According to the screenshot, one unit of Compressed Scordite takes about 5% the space of one unit of Scordite (0.15 becomes 0.0075). How many units of Scordite have been compressed into one unit of Compressed Scordite, though? I am expecting a one to one conversion here (and even then it will be powerful), but who knows. Also, does this compression formula hold true for all ores, cutting their size to 1/20th? Or are all compressed ores the same size of 0.0075, and just contain different amounts of the original ore? -Can you trade compressed ore on the market? -Can you un-compress ore again? (Not terribly worried about this of course, just out of interest.) -Will there be cargo operations possible from the ORE capital to a Freighter, or do you have to employ a POS for this purpose? Hauling with a Freighter directly from the belt would be a tremendous possibility. There are balance considerations here though. I'll just throw this to you as a suggestion and let you Devs sort it out
Lucio Joe Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.04 14:16:00 - [158] Nobody is going to use this ship for ninja mining. Who is going to risk 1b or 2b jumping to a place where you haven't intel about enemies and putting the ship in some kind of siege mode? It will have a clone bay to help in this ninja mining sessions? I dont know how this work exactly, but If you do a clone jump to the ship then you have to wait 24 hours to do a new one?. As I read in this post the ship sould be dockable (miners docking inside the ORE capital) for this purpose of ninja mining. The ship can't fit any kind of strip miners. I think that the people that will use this ship are the people that now have exhumers to lvl 5, the top miners. Please let us mine like a hulk in this new ship. And about the new siege mode... do we need to have it always active for the bonus? this is not a dread, we will not use this only 1 or two times a week to kill a pos, this ships will be working every day. How many stront are we going to need? If this ship is like the dev says, I hope the devs do it the new transport of fuels and stuff between empire and 0.0, and remove carriers and dreads from this carebear role. otherwise this ship look like useless. PD: Sorry for the awfull english.
Bagehi Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.04 15:42:00 - [159] Two things: I like Nyphur's idea about a mobile shield bubble. This ship shouldn't have much for offensive weapons, it is an industrial ship after all. The mobile shield bubble would be the ship's "uber" device. I think the hangar should be smaller, with the caveat that mining barges take up less space in them than they do elsewhere. It isn't too far fetched to imagine a ship like this, which is designed to carry mining barges carry them better than other ships could (think docking them on the hull or something of that nature). If it can haul more fighting ships, haul more cargo, and have clone vats, it leaves the combat carriers in a "almost" role. The combat carriers would be almost dreadnoughts in their fighting capacity and almost industrial carriers in their carrying capacity. A capital ship shouldn't be almost anything. A capital ship should have a specific role and do that role better than any other ship.
Maya Rkell Third Grade Ergonomics	Posted - 2007.08.04 15:46:00 - [160] Heh. Pretty much what I argued a mining capital should be (heavy support, not a direct miner). Neat. //Maya
Royaldo Gallente KVA Noble Inc. Institute of Cooperative Education	Posted - 2007.08.04 16:05:00 - [161] finally a new thing for miners coming out. wtf ccp???? fixed deimos, fixed khanid, fixed nos, fixed some amarr ships are you mad? you are actually fixing stuff again!
Friedrich IX Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.08.04 18:00:00 - [162] Edited by: Friedrich IX on 04/08/2007 18:01:18 Well the defensive ability shouldn't be a POS shield on the Capital, i would suggest it would use a gang mod that only boosts the industrial ships (barges, exhumers, haulers) Resistances drastically, so they could recive some damage or seeing as the siege mod is a industrial core, that might aswell boost the industrial ships resistances while working. Well that also means that the capital industrial should have/recive some good resistances. No point in well protected ships if the base itself can't handle any damage. If the Capital Industrial would have a POS shield thingie it most likely will be used more in a battle as a mobile safe haven then a industial ship. IF the capital tractor beam could tractor in ships (barges, exhumers, haulers) then it could be even used for a quick get away by pulling in all the non-combat ships, by quick i mean as quick as possible with the 10min siege mode. And you could probably annoy the hell out of the miners with that I don't speak english so no need to point out my spelling mistakes :) --- Hadean Drive Yards
Ahkii	Posted - 2007.08.04 19:07:00 - [163] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Some quick answers, can this ship use normal stargates or is it limited to low sec? It is a capital ship so is limited to low sec (0.0 - 0.4) and has to use a jump drive and a gang mate with a cynosural field to move between systems. Will the ship be able to dock? yes. Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Originally by: Rid*** Valer* I think Chribba should be given permission to operate one in high-sec. There are still a few capital ship assembly arrays in high sec space. Would it be considered an exploit to build and operate an ORE capital ship there? ========================= an answer here would be most appreciated....
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.04 19:11:00 - [164] Originally by: Royaldo finally a new thing for miners coming out. wtf ccp???? fixed deimos, fixed khanid, fixed nos, fixed some amarr ships are you mad? you are actually fixing stuff again! This is not a new thing for "miners", it is a new thing for 0.0 Alliances and large Corps in 0.0/LowSec. Since it can't enter Empire and costs over 1B your "average" miner will never even see one of these. So for some 70-75% of your mining characters this is no help at all. Instead we get broken named mining upgrade modules that get stacking nerfs so our production will be even lower <-----------> Factional Warfare: The LowSec wars which never happened.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.08.04 19:18:00 - [165] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Since it can't enter Empire and costs over 1B your "average" miner will never even see one of these. So for some 70-75% of your mining characters this is no help at all. Instead we get broken named mining upgrade modules that get stacking nerfs so our production will be even lower Did you just claim that 70-75% of all miners are solo highsec miners? This ship won't even be useful for solo miners since it doesn't actually mine. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.04 19:37:00 - [166] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Since it can't enter Empire and costs over 1B your "average" miner will never even see one of these. So for some 70-75% of your mining characters this is no help at all. Instead we get broken named mining upgrade modules that get stacking nerfs so our production will be even lower Did you just claim that 70-75% of all miners are solo highsec miners? This ship won't even be useful for solo miners since it doesn't actually mine. I know it won't be, that is why I'm dissapointed. Not surprised, but still disappointed. I would be willing to bet that 70-75% of all miners in EvE are HighSec based, and/or in Corps that don't have the resources to use one of these ships (including NPC Corps in that). Hence it is NOT a boost to miners as many people are claiming, including CCP and instead a boost to very large corps and 0.0 Alliances. Very nice ship, I'm glad its added, but it is far from "giving love" to the mining profession and instead a tool for making 0.0 Alliances even stronger. <-----------> Factional Warfare: The LowSec wars which never happened.
Maya Rkell Third Grade Ergonomics	Posted - 2007.08.04 19:53:00 - [167] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Originally by: Royaldo finally a new thing for miners coming out. wtf ccp???? fixed deimos, fixed khanid, fixed nos, fixed some amarr ships are you mad? you are actually fixing stuff again! This is not a new thing for "miners", it is a new thing for 0.0 Alliances and large Corps in 0.0/LowSec. Heh. It's for mining corps. Like all the capitals, it requires cooperation to use. Oh gee, you might have to work with others :) //Maya
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.08.04 20:01:00 - [168] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Very nice ship, I'm glad its added, but it is far from "giving love" to the mining profession and instead a tool for making 0.0 Alliances even stronger. Seems to me that it's designed to encourage people to move to lowsec and 0.0 with the end to encourage PvP just like pretty much every other addition to the game. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.04 20:31:00 - [169] Originally by: Maya Rkell Heh. It's for mining corps. Like all the capitals, it requires cooperation to use. Oh gee, you might have to work with others :) Just because my main is in a NPC Corp don't assume that my other characters and accounts aren't. And not one of them is going to spend 1B in a ship that can't defend itself, gives bonuses that will years to actually get a "profit" from and then take it into LowSec or 0.0 How many cycles of how many strip miners will it take a semi-casual corp of 25 to make back their 1+ billion (closer to 3B after fitting and counting skills) ISK from buying this? It is outside the range of the majority of Corps in EvE and suitable only to very large corps and alliances. The ones that don't need it nearly as much. Look at the map. 70-75% of all players are in Empire at all times and the majority of them aren't going anywhere else soon. How about giving something to US too? <-----------> Factional Warfare: The LowSec wars which never happened.
Thufir'Hawat Caldari MOON-STAR INC.	Posted - 2007.08.04 20:32:00 - [170] Originally by: maarud Will there be mining fighters? A bunch of retrievers would be really fine :)
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.04 20:35:00 - [171] Originally by: Nyphur Seems to me that it's designed to encourage people to move to lowsec and 0.0 with the end to encourage PvP just like pretty much every other addition to the game. And without being able to mount offensive modules or fighters, plus its cost, will do absolutely nothing in that goal. It is too expensive for most Empire-based Corps to risk moving into LowSec with, and too vulnerable to other PCs who can and will bring larger ships against it if they find it. Instead it will make 0.0 Alliances richer and HURT smaller/Empire-based miners who will then leave rather than play in a style they don't have any desire to do. <-----------> Factional Warfare: The LowSec wars which never happened.
Tyeson Rai Caldari Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.04 21:02:00 - [172] I appreciate that you are looking at mining as an area of EVE to receive some improvements. Please reconsider your gang mining mod that will decrease cap use. I have never had an issue with cap and never met someone who has complained about it while mining. It has never been an issue and hopefully never will be. This mod is a total waste and will go un-used. Please change it to give a boost to mining as others have suggested or figure something else 'useful' out. As a very dedicated miner myself with 3 accounts cenetered around 0.0 mining, I would never use the currently designed cap reduction gang mod, but I would enjoy one that further increases my mining yield. __________________________________________________ Also, please either take out the named mining upgrades or fix them. I almost bought a couple of the best for 1 billion each, but lucked out and heard they are deactivated and do nothing. I would also love to see some tech 2 mining upgrades that possibly do 10% of a mining yield increase.
Imhothar Xarodit Minmatar Wolverine Solutions Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.04 21:37:00 - [173] I find it extremely interesting, that the ship will have assembly lines. Could this be a hint that there "might" be some kind of capital manufacturing ships as well in the future?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.04 22:04:00 - [174] Originally by: Tyeson Rai Also, please either take out the named mining upgrades or fix them. I almost bought a couple of the best for 1 billion each, but lucked out and heard they are deactivated and do nothing. I would also love to see some tech 2 mining upgrades that possibly do 10% of a mining yield increase. From what I read abouth them, they will be rewoeked and give increments increasing in a 1% scale, not at 5% for every new steep, i.e. the worst named will give 6%, the best 10%. At the same time the miningr upgrades will become stackign nerfed. So, unless at least the worst named mining upgrades become fairly common, mining get a nerf (granted only a 1% or so for people mining in barges/exumers, much more for BS mining).
Nisse Owned The Order of Chivalry	Posted - 2007.08.04 22:10:00 - [175] Still no timer on how long is left on the cycles on lasers?
Draekas Darkwater Moons of Pluto	Posted - 2007.08.04 22:12:00 - [176] I don't see the usefulness of the mining laser cap reduction link either. I've mined for a long time, and have never had a problem. Change that to a link that adds to barge resistances, and that would be more useful for going into low sec. To promote the ship actually being present in the belt with the miners, perhaps it should be a targetable module that can only be activated while the ship is anchored. You'd have to fit several of these to cover more than one miner. I stress, that it would only work on barges, exhumers and maybe indies and transports. So it couldn't be used as a tactical weapon (unless suicide transports are available one day =D).
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.04 22:36:00 - [177] Some question about the ore compression: It is possible only in "siege" mode? The BPO for ore compression has a wastage level, like a normal BPO, and is subject to the same skills? To decompress the ore any station is usable, or it is necessary to use the mining capital in "siege" mode? If a "special" process is necessary to decomprime ore, like it is necessary to comprime it, it will require BPO to? (if so, the first Veldspater BPO should be given to Cribba, framed in gold) I would be possible to comprime and decomprime ore even in "normal" station and with some structure in POS?
Mona X Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.05 00:23:00 - [178] Originally by: Venkul Mul From what I read abouth them, they will be reworked and give increments increasing in a 1% scale, not at 5% for every new steep, i.e. the worst named will give 6%, the best 10%. 9%
Stephen HB Mystical Knights Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.08.05 02:27:00 - [179] Originally by: Venkul Mul To decompress the ore any station is usable, or it is necessary to use the mining capital in "siege" mode? If a "special" process is necessary to decomprime ore, like it is necessary to comprime it, it will require BPO to? (if so, the first Veldspater BPO should be given to Cribba, framed in gold) I would be possible to comprime and decomprime ore even in "normal" station and with some structure in POS? The link on p5 http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0708/ore.jpg shows compressed ore as having a refine amount, just like regular ore. This would imply that compressed ore can be reprocessed in the normal fashion, with proportionately higher yield (20x in this case). ---------- Signature core stabiliser II activated. This sig is immune to mod tampering! Rawr! EVE Tracking Guide
Callthetruth Caldari Drunken Ratbags Inc New Eve Order	Posted - 2007.08.05 05:30:00 - [180] Originally by: Fatsam Edited by: Fatsam on 04/08/2007 11:50:57 I would like to see this ship's role as a 0.0 logistic ship, as well as a 'mining command ship'. Its large ship/corp array will make for hauling supplies into 0.0 potentially much less time consuming than using carriers. Not asking for anything overpowered, just that I would like to see it jump as far as carriers. Carrier hauling is such a boring, but unavoidable, part of 0.0 life. I don't think anyone would care if it's jump drive consumes 6-10 times as much isotopes; everyone agrees its just such a tedious feature of the game. And we do play this game for entertainment. The recent giant can nerf to carrier hauling made the game 30% less fun to play. Might not fit in with the backstory but would increase the games fun factor a great deal in my opinion. thats what freighters are for just make sure u escort em
Taroun	Posted - 2007.08.05 07:12:00 - [181] Nice. I want one. New toy and all that. However, I think it's ignoring the "elephant in the room" For miners to have a good day, minerals from mission running and ratting need to really be nerfed.
Vambann	Posted - 2007.08.05 07:50:00 - [182] The link on p5 http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0708/ore.jpg shows compressed ore as having a refine amount, just like regular ore. This would imply that compressed ore can be reprocessed in the normal fashion, with proportionately higher yield (20x in this case). Looking at that image the BP seems to be a copy (10 production limit) and takes over a year to produce a copy from a original. Is this meant to be a BPC you buy from NPC's and is a isk sink? Or is it just some funky Sisi voodoo?
Peri Stark Gallente Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.08.05 08:52:00 - [183] The most likely pilot to fly this ship will probably be your best miner so your best miner won't be mining. I have been dreaming of a capital ORE ship but I see no advantage here great enough that would make me want to buy one. ================================================ Just because your paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
Teardown Infinite Development Consortium	Posted - 2007.08.05 10:01:00 - [184] I have been thinking about this since it was announced and frankly I can't see it being used very much. At least not in the role that was intended. The only piece of this ship's rather odd assortment of bonuses that I can see appealing to me is the ability to compress ore to a nice manageable size but this is not something that will be done in the field but at a POS. In fact I am more inclined to believe that the Ore Capitalship will never leave the POS as the newly compressed ore will then be jumped out my a ship capable of defending it's cargo i.e. a carrier. Instead of being a Nomadic Uber-Ninja Miner as seems to have been suggested by CCP I think it is far more likely to be used in safe areas of Alliance territory sat at a POS used as nothing more than a glorified POS addon. In order for it to be worth risking a 1b+ isk Ship in a belt it would need to provide a considerable bonus to the miners in that belt. A yield bonus, to be frank, is not what is really required as any corporation who can field this sort of ship will probably be using maxed out Hulks in any case. Therefore (and to end my extended waffle) I think that a serious look at what miners actually want is in order with serious consideration given to Nyphur's Shield Bubble idea. I feel his idea makes is much more than a simple Alliance POS add-on and certainly more in line with what the Medium and Small Corps would like to see. Ergh I posted on EO forums. I feel dirty. <Blah Blah Insert disclaimer Speaking for self not corp. etc etc> [center] Save the ORE Cap Ship[/cente
Imhothar Xarodit Minmatar Wolverine Solutions Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.05 10:48:00 - [185] Neither the ORE cap ship, nor any other related items, blueprints etc, are on the test server yet, so consider any screenshots a fake!
Kalindra naskan Amarr Reprocity Pure.	Posted - 2007.08.05 17:55:00 - [186] Edited by: Kalindra naskan on 05/08/2007 17:56:59 Originally by: Imhothar Xarodit Neither the ORE cap ship, nor any other related items, blueprints etc, are on the test server yet, so consider any screenshots a fake! There are several items in the TQ database which are not on the market and you can not find by serching for it. But if you know said items itemID you can make a IGB compatible website that calls for that itemID and then the info for that item will pop up. I'm pretty sure that's how it's done. Although anyone is free to correct me if I'm wrong. --- This sig is rated "N" for Nonexistant It's nonexistent btw - Cortes Meh, same thing.
KluTch	Posted - 2007.08.05 19:06:00 - [187] For protection of other miners, instead of using a POS shield or whatever. Why not just add a ship mod to the game for the capital ship, that they can target another ship for example a covetor, turn mod on, and the ships basicly becomes invunerable. Any damage it takes, is simple passed to the capital ship. 1 mod for 1 ship protected.
Demjon	Posted - 2007.08.05 20:29:00 - [188] I think you should think in terms of a large corp in rl, a mining vessel of this size would be expected to be almost completely self sufficient. It would be expected to handle all npcÆs in a belt and be able to reach almost all asteroids in a belt with its capital strip miners and drones. The vessel should be able to refine as fast as it pulls in ore from the belt. I think making the ship deployable and locked in position is enough of a trade off for such mining abilities because it will be so vulnerable to enemy gangs. This vessel should not be allowed in empire space and should make use of jump drives. Instead of a corp hanger it should have a separate cargo bay for refined minerals to keep the main cargo bay from filling up with minerals and preventing the capital strip miners from depositing raw ore to be processed. The cycle time for capital strip miners should be very long as it can reach asteroids that are extremely far away by comparison to standard strip miners. They should also pull in extremely large amounts of ore by comparison to standard strip miners. The advantage of this ship should not be in the ability to collect ore faster than a hulk, but in the ability to refine this ore on the spot, and not having to move around in a belt. This vessel will not be able to mine in unfriendly space because it will be such a prime target and unable to make a quick get away because it will have to undeploy itself in order to make an attempt at jumping once it reaches 95% cap. The ability to tank all npcÆs in 0.0 space, refine ore on the spot, use jump drive to travel, and reach all asteroids in a belt without moving from a fixed position is not to much to ask for from a capital mining vessel. The idea of pulling in cans that other players have mined and refining them is a slap in the face for dedicated miners. This means I canÆt use this vessel to mine on my own. I have to get others to mine for me so I can refine it for them? How is that fun for a miner who has just finished training for a hulk? Miners collect ore and refine ità period. The ultimate mining vessel should be able to do both of these functions or itÆs of no use to me, no real advantage over the hulk. Think dune and the spice harvesters not Homeworld and the resource controllers.
Friedrich IX Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.08.05 23:17:00 - [189] Quote: This means I canÆt use this vessel to mine on my own. I have to get others to mine for me so I can refine it for them? How is that fun for a miner who has just finished training for a hulk? Miners collect ore and refine ità period. The ultimate mining vessel should be able to do both of these functions or itÆs of no use to me, no real advantage over the hulk. Think dune and the spice harvesters not Homeworld and the resource controllers. Your talking like you could even afford it, if your a solo miner and you sound one. --- Hadean Drive Yards
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.08.06 01:11:00 - [190] Maybe have the siege mode last less than 10 minutes or I dont see those things having alot of success in 0.0 - Gob Stealth bombers work!
Nietor	Posted - 2007.08.06 03:38:00 - [191] Well... since we are talking about mining, i think the requirements for the covetor and hulk should be looked at. It really only takes 2 days between a covetor and a hulk. and the money. As it is currently, FOR ME (i have trained some) 16 days for astrogeology 5, and 26 for mining barge 5. The only difference between a hulk and covetor, other than isk is less than 2 days training up exhumers 3. Maybe a boost to miners everywhere would be to lower the requirements for a covetor to say, either 4 barge/astrogeology, or a 5 in one of the two, and a 4 in the other. This would give people approximately 16-26 days of mining (depending on attributes/implants of course) and would make the covetor an actual STEP in getting to a hulk. Personally, i won't buy a covetor; I'll just save my isk for a hulk, and wait the two extra days to use it.
Andrus Delai e X i l e FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.06 05:31:00 - [192] I like the idea of a mining support capital, but I have some reservations. 1) There has to be a good reason why this ship would be on the same grid as the miners or it will just sit at a POS or Safe. The bonuses so far do not seem to justify exposing a major resource. As it stands now, it looks like this ship will essentially be a POS ore compression module. 2) This ship needs to either provide significant bonuses to mining or aid in the defense of the miners. 3) If the Industrial Core requires fuel, then any benefits derived from this ship needs to more than pay for the cost of that fuel and justify locking down the ship for an extended period of time. I see no reason why I would activate this module anywhere but at a POS. 4) The Industrial Capital Ships skill should not have Capital Ships are a prerequisite. They should be two separate skills. 5) Having a link to reduce mining cap use is not as valuable as it might seem.
Hugh Ruka Caldari Free Traders	Posted - 2007.08.06 08:28:00 - [193] As I see it, whit that SMA size, this ship will rarely be used for mining. It will be a military transport ship. It can hold 2 battleships or a bunch of cruisers. You get 1-2 carriers, 4-5 of these ships loaded with combat vessels. Cyno scout. Cyno scout gets into target system, cyno up, ships in. Mining ships deploy their SMA cargo, cyno out. Gang get's moving, carriers cyno out. This will make a hell of keeping territory locked down. Originally by: JP Beauregard The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.08.06 08:52:00 - [194] Originally by: Hugh Ruka This will make a hell of keeping territory locked down. Cyno Jammer Array. You do not need a lot to claim sov. Even small tower will do if you are not under attack. Have not looked at fitting requiments of the thing tho. Anyway - if you want to keep hostiles out of certain system cyno jammer is your friend. There is only so mutch you can do with regular ships when your opposition can use capitals. As far as ship maint array size goes. It's not final yet so we will see if it can squeeze in BS or not. Current number in screenshots is mothership ship maint array size (as are all other 'placeholder' stats on the thing). By the devblog I would say that you cant fit any battleships in there (hulks 50 k m3 smaller means they would be at 200 k and there will be room for 3 - 4 hulks by devblog but BS is 1 million m3).
Dr Aryandi Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2007.08.06 11:28:00 - [195] Actually I really like the force field idea where when it goes in seige mode it extends out a 30 or 50km force field that works just like a POS one except that people inside it can still target asteroids. It should probably also get some sort of shield boost/resist bonus while in that mode. This would give people a real reason to put it in a belt to defend the miners - and with a big enough ship bay that you can put some defensive ships in their to jump into instead of the mining barges. Of course if you want to really make it meaty then when in that mode you could have it get a little bit of POS grid and CPU. Not much but enough for maybe a couple of small POS weapons and a scrambler. That might see it getting used as a military tool by fleets, but I don't honestly have a problem with that - particularly considering it will only have carrier level defenses, a sig radius of 50km, and will be locked in place. Blueprint Research Service Available See thread for details.
Mainreh Rhonaki Jazz Associates R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.06 11:57:00 - [196] Edited by: Mainreh Rhonaki on 06/08/2007 11:58:41 The way jump clones are designed today, it's really not practical to create them in NPC stations. However, an ORE capital could adress this issue in lo-sec space (and the zero-sec NPC-controlled regions). This could mean jump clones in lo-sec for everyone, which would make lo-sec space a lot more attractive to those players that are not in outpost-owning alliances. This in turn, may have rather far-reaching effects on the minerals market, as it will prolly mean a lot more players will "dig where they stand" as it were - in ore higher up the value-chain. Incidentally, an ORE capital in this role is prolly going to be considered too vital a resource to risk on anything so dangerous as a mining expedition :)
Khanid Zeal	Posted - 2007.08.06 14:30:00 - [197] Chronotis Ok as it stated as a "capital ship for miners" O and Im a miner I cant see my self mining ship with not the ability to mine ??? Can it mine with drones ? I was looking forward to a ship where I could mine and also storage the mining yeild meanwhile I mining.
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.08.06 14:47:00 - [198] Originally by: Khanid Zeal Chronotis Ok as it stated as a "capital ship for miners" O and Im a miner I cant see my self mining ship with not the ability to mine ??? Can it mine with drones ? I was looking forward to a ship where I could mine and also storage the mining yeild meanwhile I mining. That would create even more of a bottleneck to mining. If you want a ship that can haul more than it can mine, then use an industrial with a Miner I. This ship was always stated as a non-mining vessel. It should hope alleviate the bottleneck that is getting the ore from the belt to the station. Especially when you consider that 3-4 Hulks can fill a jetcan faster than a hauler can empty it. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.08.06 15:00:00 - [199] Neat. But when are you guys going to fix the steaming pile that is the client UI? ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets don't.
Securion Wolfheart Caldari Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.06 16:33:00 - [200] Edited by: Securion Wolfheart on 06/08/2007 16:34:21 These things will never leave a POS, so why make a "ship"? Why not make a POS mod that compresses ore instead? Edit: Oh wait you did...? This "ship" IS a new POS mod...? Or... what...? -----====----- Whether we bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done.
Axaeli Gallente Shadewraith Cargo and Industry	Posted - 2007.08.06 16:50:00 - [201] Will these things be buildable in low-sec/0.0 npc stations, or will they require a large/cap ship assembly array at a POS to construct?
DeltaH NOBODY Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.06 17:14:00 - [202] Originally by: CCP Chronotis In terms of the goal of this ship, which is nomad mining operations and logistical support. It suits that role perfectly allowing someone to scout out a nice quiet system, pop a cyno, jump the ORE cap ship in, rest of the gang jump clone in and board the hulks and start mining whilst the ORE cap most likely sets up a small starbase. The goal is very much to empower small gangs to operate in unsafe areas of space where getting down into that space is dangerous for smaller gangs. The maximum number of jump clones allowed on the ship is limited to 5 currently. If the industrial core module requires a siege type 'stuck in place for X minutes' I don't think it will be used in the role you envision. Nomad mining operations would seem to rely on not being detected for their defense. Once detected they have no defense and need to flee. This is at odds with having a potentially several billion ISK ship stuck in space and the rest of your gang in hulks. To correct this you would require a support fleet of some kind for defense, but that isn't very nomadic and turns it into standard 0.0 alliance mining territory. I think the siege idea is good since it puts some risk into it and gives targets for gank squads to go hunt, but it will force the ship to be used in a standard role, not a new nomadic one.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.06 18:39:00 - [203] Some more answers; Why would we put this ship in a belt? Probably the most challenging aspect of the design, especially where it was not to mine itself. In the future, it is our hope to make gang bonuses only apply when the assigned gang booster is in the same grid. Command ships should really be in the 'arena' as well. The bonus of the ship whilst in the belt but not in 'industrial' mode are the use of the capital tractor beam and capital shield transporter range bonus so you can still selectively choose when to be in the belt, at least until we hope to make the changes to gang boosting in a future patch. In short, we fully expect players to use it in scenarios which minimise risk of its loss. It is human nature to do so (unless your rich and bored) so the risk of putting it in the belt will have to be weighed carefully baring in mind the bonuses gained in each scenario. 'POS bubbles' were one of the first things considered and also the first to be thrown out, they are simply far too exploitable in scenarios where the ship is not meant to be. Regarding the Industrial Core I The Industrial Core has a duration of 5 minutes and a base fuel consumption of 200 strontium modified by the Industrial Reconfiguration skill (-20 stront per lvl) and -5% per level of capital industrial ships skill so with maximum skills reduces this to 80 stront per 5 minutes. When this module is not active, no new jobs can be installed on the ship's assemblylines and current jobs are paused. Ore Compression The blueprints will be cheap and the compressed ore will be refineable. Having 'reverse process' blueprints seems a little too much really currently. The compressed ore portion count is 1, as opposed to normal ore which is between 200-500 for eg and refines for the same amount as normal ore. The exact rates of compression are still being balanced but the ballpark is around 20% of original volume. Conceived Example: mercoxit is 40m3 * portion (250) = 10,000m3 volume, compressed mercoxit is provisionally 2,000m3 and a portion count of 1. The blueprint takes 250 regular mercoxit and creates 1 compressed mercoxit per run with a base run time of 10 seconds so there will be a fair amount of micromanagement needed during the mining op to compress the ore and put it into appropriate hold for transport to the nearest refinery. Note: the requirement for the Ore Compression skill was dropped. So only two new skills are now required (Capital Industrial Ships and Industrial Reconfiguration). The blueprints require the relevant ore processing skill to use eg. mercoxit processing. Usual Disclaimer! Everything stated is subject to change before the patch

Amateratsu Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.06 18:49:00 - [204] I have to agree with some of the above posters. If this ore capital ship is intended be deployed in the field to run ninja mining ops in hostile territoty then it needs to be able to defend itself and its mining barges against hostile attack. Currently mining barges are paper thin, a smart bombing battleship can easerly destroy a group of several mining barges in a single activation of its smartbomb's A dictor and a couple of heavy assault cruises could easerly wipe out a mining op in a matter of seconds and as it stands at the moment this ore capital ship will not be able to do anything to stop them. Regular combat drones will simply not be good enough, they will get destroyed as fast as the capital ship can launch them. Pirate corps and roaming gangs of skilled pvp players in tech 2 assault ships will be queing up to hunt down and destroy these capital ships just for the hell of it. My suggestion is to give the ore capital ship a ecm module which prevents any ships in the pilots gang from being targeted, smart bombed or attacked with fof missiles ect This ecm module can only be activated when the capital is in its deplayed industrial mode and only gives protection to the ships under its command. (in the pilots gang) This way the attackers will have to destroy the ore capital ship before they can engage the protected ships. The ships protected by the ecm jamming will also be effected by the jamming so cannot help the capital ship. The ore capital ship will require fighter drones and a decent tanking ability to fend off small roaming gangs. This is a CAPITAL ship several times larger than a battleship and like other capital ships in its class should require a coordinated attack force to destroy. not 3 or 4 roaming pirates in tech 2 hacs. Else you will only see this ship deployed at POS's and used as a transport to jump supplys between empire and no sec. Otherwise exellent job, rest of the features are spot on
Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.06 19:17:00 - [205] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Some more answers; Everything stated is subject to change before the patch Again, thanks for the answers! But no, I'm not done grilling you yet. I have more questions. :-P When compressing the ore, what's the exact procedure for that? Grab a jetcan, unload it into your cargo hold, engage the industrial core, compress the ore, then eject it into a jetcan so it can be hauled to the refinery? If that is the case, I'm curious as to how big you'll make the ship's cargo hold. It wouldn't be very efficient if you had a cargo hold so small that you can't even fit a full jetcan of normal ore in it. I know that the ship stats are still being tweaked, but could you give us a general idea as to what we'd be looking at in this regard? Thanks! ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!
Marcus Tedric Gallente Tedric Enterprises	Posted - 2007.08.06 19:42:00 - [206] To several of the posters... Unless I'm totally wrong (and please tell me nicely)... Whilst the leadership skills work within a system (re ORE Capital @ POS) - AFAIK the Warfare Link Modules are only effective when on the same grid. Therefore, that's the reason that this ship would be at the belts. However, I can see the Industrial Mode being done at a POS - with newly compressed ore being carried away. FWIW - I see a Mining Wing going off to a system - one, or two, of these ships; one, or two, carriers; mining squad; haulers; and defence team.
Marie Mahro Conflagration Mining	Posted - 2007.08.06 20:26:00 - [207] I believe I have a picture of the Industrial Capital Ship you are trying to create and the difficulties you are having based on need vs. exploit. Correct me if I am wrong, but the ship is designed around the role of mining support with the specific task of allowing the smaller alliance and average/large corp. to move ore from 0.0 to the markets in high sec. I believe you envisage this to be used in reasonably established territory, but with the option for æNinja MiningÆ in areas of high value (And equally high risk). The ability of this ship will allow 2-4 Hulks and crew, by way of the clone vat bay, to clean the belts of valuable ore whilst the ore is tractor beamed in and compressed. Once the area is sucked dry, the hulks are packed away and the Industrial Carrier then jumps to safety with a full cargo bay. For this to be effective I see a number of areas that you are no doubt looking at already. 1)Jump distance 2)Tanking 3)Ship cargo bay and its exploits 4)Defences 5)Ore compression vs. ore mined 1)Jump distance could be similar to that of the current Carriers. Since it would replace that role of the freighter in ore transport (only ore transport), the cost of jumping vs. capital jumped would have to be profitable. 2)Since the ship would be a considerable investment by most small alliances, the ship must be able to withstand most of the largest spawns and be able to tank slightly less than current carriers. As this is not a combat ship, any more would be unnecessary. 3)The ship is not designed as a combat transport and its limitations should be obvious from the beginning. The ability to only carry mining ships may pose a problem, unless you can specify ship types carried within its hold. A ship bonus increasing the number of mining ships it can hold per skill level would force players to invest points and time into training. 4)If you are to encourage the option of æninja miningÆ, you must allow the ability to defend or help prevent attack. The most common option is to allow fighters to be used; another option could be to increase the ships scanners to pick up ships in nearby systems. This would give enough warning to pack away and jump out; exploit of course is that this ship would be used in camps at a safe spot or POS. The counter would be to incorporate the ability within command ships. 5)At its fastest rate, i.e. 4 hulks at full skills, this ore compression should be able to keep up. Again, I believe a ship bonus to increase ore compression speed or at least a separate skill. Good work so far though, its looking very interesting. Although no answers as yet on the skill req. mining barge 5 or Exhumers 5?
Swearingen	Posted - 2007.08.06 20:27:00 - [208] I would like to see ore compression able to be done by the hulk pilots that will/should have t2 crystal capability for the ores that they are mining, not just the pilot of the mining capital. Although I am not familiar with the clone vat bay mechanics, I would think that it would allow a different pilot (from the mining capital pilot) to access the compression BPs and activate the factory lines of the industrial core to do the ore compression. IF a hulk pilot doesn't dock "inside" the mothership, then maybe right-clicking on the ship would bring up the corp hangar array where the compression BPs could be installed onto the factory lines of the on-line industrial core, without actually docking into the ship. If this isn't intended, it would super-nice (i.e don't make people angry for no reason), to make it happen. I would be angered by the need to train RE4/RE5 and all ore processing skills to 4 on my director when he can't mine with t2 crystals (same skills wasted) at the same time. Ideally, of course, it would be even nicer to give that director pilot a bonus who wants to train all that skills (to compress) the ability to use the t2 crystals and mine some at the same time with capital mining arrays (that require maybe even ore processing 5 skills) that don't target specific roids, just mine all the roids it is pointed at that match the loaded t2 crystal. On the subject of capital mining arrays, I think they are most needed for low-end ores that are a pita to mine enough of for ship building without resorting to just buying from market (i.e. macroers). If enabled correctly, I think this could do lots to weaken the market position of macroers, when at first glance, it might seem to be a boon to those that still engage in this outlawed activity.
Kilda Shepp	Posted - 2007.08.06 20:39:00 - [209] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Ore Compression The blueprints will be cheap and the compressed ore will be refineable. Having 'reverse process' blueprints seems a little too much really currently. The compressed ore portion count is 1, as opposed to normal ore which is between 200-500 for eg and refines for the same amount as normal ore. The exact rates of compression are still being balanced but the ballpark is around 20% of original volume. Conceived Example: mercoxit is 40m3 * portion (250) = 10,000m3 volume, compressed mercoxit is provisionally 2,000m3 and a portion count of 1. The blueprint takes 250 regular mercoxit and creates 1 compressed mercoxit per run with a base run time of 10 seconds so there will be a fair amount of micromanagement needed during the mining op to compress the ore and put it into appropriate hold for transport to the nearest refinery. The way I read this is, you need 250 Compressed Mercoxit to refined a Compressed Mercoxit stack, but it will produce the same as 62,500 Mercoxit. So what good is this ship? apart from a hauler. Either you mine 63K of Mercoxit and get a normal cheap carrier with expander-IIs and a hull full of haulers to jump it out and to defend yourself and your miners from the off 1 or 2 BS's Or, get this mining capital, park it in a POS bubble, spend the ISK on stront, the BPOs, the mods etc and do the same thing. I'm not anywhere near the skills and I'm not a miner, but this doesn't seem like it'll be of any use to anyone, even large alliances and dedicated mining corps. You're still mining at the same rate, but now at significant cost you can mine at the same rate and move it around but use less space. Remember everyone, it may be 20x smaller, but to fill your hull it'll take 20 times longer.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.06 21:57:00 - [210] Originally by: Kilda Shepp The way I read this is, you need 250 Compressed Mercoxit to refine a Compressed Mercoxit stack, but it will produce the same as 62,500 Mercoxit. No, 1 compressed mercoxit is the same as 250 mercoxit in terms of refine amount and amount needed to refine 1 batch. To refine 1 batch of mercoxit, you need 250 mercoxit which is 40*250 = 10,000m3 volume. To refine 1 batch of compressed mercoxit, you need 1 compressed mercoxit which is 2,000m3 volume. Both refine to the same amount of minerals. But as I mentioned, the exact compression ratios are not finalised yet.

Helen Hunts Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc W A S T E L A N D	Posted - 2007.08.06 22:08:00 - [211] Edited by: Helen Hunts on 06/08/2007 22:10:20 Do remember that they are still working on the details. The Compressed Merc may end up being refined with a portion size of 1 and yielding out the normal measures. Let's not scream about fixing it until we know that it IS broken. (Then we can demand heads on platters) I'm really curious just how much I'll get out of an Intensive Refinery stuffed with compressed ore/ice. Edit: I write up my entry and Chronotis beats me to posting. _______________________________ Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money. Any Questions?

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.06 22:19:00 - [212] Originally by: Borgholio When compressing the ore, what's the exact procedure for that? 1. Place uncompressed ore in cargohold with the blueprints (i would have a small can with all the blueprints in myself). 2. enter industrial mode where the 4 assemblylines will become active 3. start installing manufacture jobs (rgt-click on bp is easiest in the cargohold) 4. Stagger the install and delivery so you always have enough space, once you deliver move to another hold for storage and transport until all your compression is done. 5. Exit industrial mode and start packing ships and hanger space with compressed ore for jump back home. Provisional capacities as follows: Cargohold = 25,000m3 Corp Hanger = 10,000m3 Ship Maintenance Bay = 600,000m3 (restricted to mining barges, exhumers, industrials and transports).

Zigg Omelo eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.08.06 23:04:00 - [213] What a useless incarnation it has become... 600k ship bay... fits 3 hulks/exhumer 4 mackinaws/retrievers who wants to bring 4 of those ore caps for a mining op... 1m ship bay pls... also how do you excpect to have a POS wiht you with that corprate hangars volume. all is tooo much prenerfed... i wont accept this... So, 600k and 200k / hauler, means you'll be able to have 2 hulks and a Viator. Guess what, a carrier can carry 2 hulks and a viator as well. So, 600k and 200k / hauler, means you'll be able to have 2 hulks and a Viator. Guess what, a carrier can carry 2 hulks and a viator as well. :)
Eridicus Deadworlds Reclamation Inc Ice Storm Allliance	Posted - 2007.08.06 23:13:00 - [214] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Borgholio When compressing the ore, what's the exact procedure for that? 1. Place uncompressed ore in cargohold with the blueprints (i would have a small can with all the blueprints in myself). 2. enter industrial mode where the 4 assemblylines will become active 3. start installing manufacture jobs (rgt-click on bp is easiest in the cargohold) 4. Stagger the install and delivery so you always have enough space, once you deliver move to another hold for storage and transport until all your compression is done. 5. Exit industrial mode and start packing ships and hanger space with compressed ore for jump back home. Provisional capacities as follows: Cargohold = 25,000m3 Corp Hanger = 10,000m3 Ship Maintenance Bay = 600,000m3 (restricted to mining barges, exhumers, industrials and transports). So, why wouldn't I use a Carrier for this instead? Carrier: 500k m3 of ship space. - Hulk #1: 200k m3 - Hulk #2: 200k m3 - Small POS w/ Fuel & Refining Array in Corp Hangar/Cargohold - - Carrier jumps in, sets up small POS, kicks out the hulks, people hop into them, mine mine mine. Carrier can easily warp in, tractor the cans every so often and warp back to safety while putting the chunks of ore into the refinery once there's enough. Repeat until bored, pack everything up and leave. The Ship Maintenance Bay needs to be much larger. 4 hulks and a hauler.
Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.06 23:13:00 - [215] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Borgholio When compressing the ore, what's the exact procedure for that? 1. Place uncompressed ore in cargohold with the blueprints (i would have a small can with all the blueprints in myself). 2. enter industrial mode where the 4 assemblylines will become active 3. start installing manufacture jobs (rgt-click on bp is easiest in the cargohold) 4. Stagger the install and delivery so you always have enough space, once you deliver move to another hold for storage and transport until all your compression is done. 5. Exit industrial mode and start packing ships and hanger space with compressed ore for jump back home. Provisional capacities as follows: Cargohold = 25,000m3 Corp Hanger = 10,000m3 Ship Maintenance Bay = 600,000m3 (restricted to mining barges, exhumers, industrials and transports). Sounds simple enough. I think the last question I have is in regards to the jump range. I'll freely admit that based on the provisional cargo capacity, I'm considering using this puppy as an empire -> 0.0 logistics tool (instead of carriers the way it's done now). Any idea what the provisional jump range will be? Thanks! ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!
Tonto Auri	Posted - 2007.08.06 23:17:00 - [216] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Kilda Shepp The way I read this is, you need 250 Compressed Mercoxit to refine a Compressed Mercoxit stack, but it will produce the same as 62,500 Mercoxit. No, 1 compressed mercoxit is the same as 250 mercoxit in terms of refine amount and amount needed to refine 1 batch. To refine 1 batch of mercoxit, you need 250 mercoxit which is 40*250 = 10,000m3 volume. To refine 1 batch of compressed mercoxit, you need 1 compressed mercoxit which is 2,000m3 volume. Both refine to the same amount of minerals. But as I mentioned, the exact compression ratios are not finalised yet. I think that mobile refinery producing minerals will be easier and much more understandable than such... thing... (even with output equal or worse than player-built outposts) Sure You can easily fins that tread about mobile refining devices. Sorry but this damn forum not allow to find all my posts, but only 15 last ones... -- Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig>
Zigg Omelo eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.08.06 23:23:00 - [217] What a useless incarnation it has become... 600k ship bay... fits 3 hulks/exhumer 4 mackinaws/retrievers who wants to bring 4 of those ore caps for a mining op... 1m ship bay pls... also how do you excpect to have a POS wiht you with that corprate hangars volume. all is tooo much prenerfed... i wont accept this... So, 600k and 200k / hauler, means you'll be able to have 2 hulks and a Viator. Guess what, a carrier can carry 2 hulks and a viator as well. :) Right now this provide nothing a carrier doesnt in regard to capacity to act as a hive for miners... Horrible
Darpz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.07 00:23:00 - [218] new stats make this thing so pointless its not even funny. i'm not a miner but in my opin. 1/5 compression will give this ship a capcity of about 1/5 of a freighter which is not enough to make it worth it. so ether give it more cargo cap or bring the compression up. also really don't see the point of the ship with its current stats. my ore Carrier slotlayout 5 5 5 10k m3 cargo 50k hanger 1.5M maintence 1M m3 Ore Hanger (only unrefined Ore can be loaded into it and ship must be in minning siege mode to enable it) Bonus: +2 Mining fighters per level (max 15 with lvl 5 ore skill 20 with Drone control Linke) 3% bonus to mining command modules 10% bonus to Mining siege mode stront use per level - cannot launch standard fighters ship can launch mining fighters instead of fighters Minning fighters at full effectiveness each one mines the same as a base Strip miner at base skills with a 5% bonus per miner fighter skill ship can launch at max skills 20 with 5 drone control units. 100% effective on Veld-Kernite 50% effective on everything else mining fighters can NOT be remotely deployed ship also receaves a bonus simlar to command ships for mining links. minning siege mode boosts its tank just like with carriers, also enables the ore cargo bay to be able to accessed. make the ship cost 4B and give it a jump range simlar to a dread.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.07 00:33:00 - [219] Edited by: Elmicker on 07/08/2007 00:32:45 Originally by: CCP Chronotis Ship Maintenance Bay = 600,000m3 (restricted to mining barges, exhumers, industrials and transports). Can i ask what the purpose of the restriction is? All it seems to do is limit what is one of the main uses of a jump-capable carebear ship.
Darpz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.07 00:45:00 - [220] Originally by: Elmicker Edited by: Elmicker on 07/08/2007 00:32:45 Originally by: CCP Chronotis Ship Maintenance Bay = 600,000m3 (restricted to mining barges, exhumers, industrials and transports). Can i ask what the purpose of the restriction is? All it seems to do is limit what is one of the main uses of a jump-capable carebear ship. yup tbh what the community wanted was a jump capable freighter with some mining bonus. what we got was a neuterd carrier with no real logistical bonus. basically a ship people will stick at a pos for the bonus and maybe compression but tbh thats not that hot, since with jumpbridges most will just bridge a freighter to take the ops take back to the refinery. make the ship have the logistical ability of a mom with none of the offensive ability with some mining stuff thrown in charge 4-6B for it and you have a winner.
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.07 01:08:00 - [221] - The ore compression is a wonderful idea. - Restricting the Ship Maint is a bad idea. - NO Refining is very good. I've stated my opinions before on this. Basically, you refine in space I don't get taxes. I don't get taxes you die and get kicked from alliance. Now for the other proposed issues: - No 'forcefield projection'. While this would be fine for mining ops, it is open to WAY too much abuse. - Without mining Fighters, or at least normal Carrier bonuses to mining Drones, there's really no reason to be in a belt. Existing bonuses don't merit it. - If you change the Gang System (as implied) so you have to be 'on grid' to give bonuses, that is a BAD idea. Not because of this ship, but Gangs in general. You'll have to re-calculate gang bonuses after each warp. Although...you might already have to do that cuz Links shut off in warp. Could keeping them active in warp be a way to reduce lag? - The suggestion to use Heavy Water as fuel is wonderful. CCP, you will NEVER use all the Heavy Water up! There is only one use for it. And any other type of Isotope for jumping will simply increase the cost on that type unfairly. - Strond cost estimated at 1 Mill? If so, expect Strond to dramatically increase as well. Use Heavy Water too. Now for its intended users: Its a capital ship. Jump Drive means .4 - 0.0, and since you'd be an idiot to put it in low sec that realistically means 0.0 only. Therefore its an Alliance vessel, or a raiding ninja miner. In 0.0, I'd use it this way: Jump into a system 4-8 jumps from a refinery with virgin asteroid belts. Clone Jump the miners in and have them start mining. Something has to tank...a dangerous thing to do with the Ore Ship itself. So I'd have a carrier come with us, with a Uber-Tanked Command Ship or similar. Also a hauler. The Ore Ship puts up a small POS. Miners mine. Hauler brings ore to the POS and dumps it, Carrier jumps Compressed Ores back in its holds and in Haulers it carries. Carrier is also available for defense. In worse-case scenario, everyone warps to pos, ships are reloaded, and you jump out leaving a 100 mill small POS behind. Note that this scenario does not use the specials of Capital Transfers and Capital Tractors. Unless I can be in a belt and MINE, there is no reason to be there. So...please feel free to pick holes in this idea. But I just can't see it being in a belt unless you break the Gang Bonuses specifically to MAKE it be there.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.07 01:37:00 - [222] Edited by: Elmicker on 07/08/2007 01:37:53 I absolutely agree with everything Jodi says. Especially on the concept of forcing this ship to sit in the belt with the miners to provide the bonus - absolutely stupid. It forces an expensive, vulnerable, slow-as-** lump of lard into a risky situation. All that'll happen if the bonuses are forced to be on-grid is this ship will never be used. Its designed to sit in or (on the edge of) a POS, compressing what is brought in by the haulers to be later jumped out by a carrier and providing gang bonuses - not sitting in the belt screaming "LOOK AT ME, BIG ***** DEFENCELESS CAREBEAR RIGHT HERE!!!".
Teragosa Caldari The Coalition Of Buccaneers Mercenary Services	Posted - 2007.08.07 02:59:00 - [223] Edited by: Teragosa on 07/08/2007 03:01:05 Edited by: Teragosa on 07/08/2007 03:00:36 Edited by: Teragosa on 07/08/2007 02:59:35 I like the way this ship is coming together. What I had thought would be good is a ship that replaces ships being used in mining ops that shouldn't be. Such as command ships and Battle Cruisers. A mobile mining op. Something that can haul all the ships needed for mining and hauling. Something that would still give bonus's but could also tank the spawn and offer some protection. This ship would then be able to pack everything up after a few hours of mining. After ore compression, it should be able to haul what 3 - 5 hulks maxed out with skills would be able to mine in a few hours. here is what I envision. Ore cap ship jumps in, players clone jump in once spawn is tanked. 3 or 4 hulks come out, and mine. Cap ship gives out bonus's to hulk pilots. Cap ship tractors jet cans into the cap ship for ore compression. The ore is stored in the corp hanger. when the op is over. all the hulks are stored, and pilots in carrier. Cap ship jumps out to a station or POS and deposits compressed ore in the hanger for refine. Rinse repeat. Thats my dream anyway.
Sonja engineer	Posted - 2007.08.07 03:56:00 - [224] this ship isnt what us miners wanted in a capital ship we wanted a ship with like 6 strips and a huge cargo like a freaighter and a refiner in it im disapointed
Dr Aryandi Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2007.08.07 11:28:00 - [225] I'm sorry but it is sounding rather too weak at the moment - it sounded good at first but seems to be getting nerfed into uselessness. Compression ratio: 5 to 1 isn't even slightly enough. Hulks can fill a jet can scary fast and this ship will be full itself not long after. Even compressed. As others have already said much better just refining the ore to minerals. Assembly lines: Have you noticed that you could fit another 'batch' into the ship by starting the assembly lines building just before coming out of industry mode? All the minerals have vanished into the assembly line and won't appear out of the other end until you re-enter industrial mode. Doesn't have to be a problem but worth thinking about. Can assembly lines run any bpo or only the compression ones? Because being able to make ammo/etc anywhere would be very interesting. Maint bay: This seems very small, and also overly restricted. There are two uses for the maintenance bay - one is to store the mining ships and the second is to store the pvp defence ships needed to defend the mining op. Cloaking Can the ship cloak while in industry mode? Scanning I do like the idea someone had above that the ship can view nearby local channels while in industry mode. In fact you could make it even better than that and have it actually appear in local in nearby systems if it wants to. That would confuse people coming in and give a valuable minutes warning for everyone. Basically when you enter industry mode a new chat channel would appear for all adjacent star systems local. When you leave industry mode they would close. You would still need scouts if you want more than 1 jump warning. Fuel type Please reconsider the fuel type and switch it to something like heavy water which has much lower demand atm. Reason to be in a belt I am still not seeing a reason to put it in the belt. Tractors and shield transfers don't cut it. We need more carrots, not a stick (changing gang bonuses would be a stick). Give people a reason to WANT it in the belt. Some potential ideas (might not be enough on their own but they all help): Allow it to tractor roids while in industry mode, so it can pull all the roids in the belt in around it (would tractor them slowly tho - so take a while). Take that one step further and allow it to ingest roids. The whole asteroid would be engulfed by the ship and then fed into the compression lines. Different from mining because it could take fixed time per roid - and take quite a while - so you want to pick the roids with a lot of ore in them using the scanners while the mining barges take the slightly smaller roids. Give it area effect shield transporters so it doesn't need to lock targets to help them. Give it the mothership's remote ECM burst module Ok, that's just a few ideas to kick things off. Blueprint Research Service Available See thread for details.
Tixed	Posted - 2007.08.07 11:35:00 - [226] I have three questions to devs: 1. Compressing ore is like producing smth. So, skill Production Efficiency will affect material (ore) needed to compress batch? 2. How can you "secretly" go somewhere with capship for mining, when cyno will be seen by EVERYONE on the map? That's just beacon for gankers and hunters "go and get me". 3. What about other mining bonuses from that ship, just for being in command of gang? Like 5% mining yield for each Cap Ind Ships lvl, or smth. (like Titan bonuses).
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.08.07 11:44:00 - [227] A quick question, is moving compressed unrefined minerals is better (m3-wise) than the "refined minerals and produced into items method" ? -=-=-
Apertotes Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.07 12:28:00 - [228] Edited by: Apertotes on 07/08/2007 12:28:44 as i understand, this ship will be something like a command ship (or carrier) for mining. i mean, it would give high gang bonuses and be able to use gang links. since the intruduction of mining links and mining related leadership skills, mining operations directors have moved from barges to command ships, and now they will move to this capital ship. the problem is who will train for it. miners will have to train all the leadership and spaceship command skills. but they will already have the reprocess skills. command pilots will have to train the industrial capital skill and all the reprocessing skills, but they will already have the leadership skills. anyway you look at it, it is a problem. miners wont want to train all those leadership skills just for one ship, and command pilots wont want to train all those industrial skills only to compress the ore. i hope CCP think about it and implement some sort of external compression that miners could activate by docking on the capital industrial ship.
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.07 12:36:00 - [229] 1/5th compression rate is not nearly enough. You know how fast those hulks will fill that ship?
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.08.07 13:02:00 - [230] The points that a lot of people on page 8 seem to be missing; are that the ORE Capital ship will be heavily pre-nerfed, and that the ship cannot be a replacement for other vessels. As I said back on page 2/3, this ship is trying too hard to satisfy all the demands of miners. For example: you could easily drop the tractor beam/cargo scanning role from this ship and yet still have it used by miners. Assembly Lines: I agree with one or two of the above posters. If these could be used to manufacture T1 ammunition, it would be a boon to long-term operations in hostile space. Even if the time multiplier was stupidly inefficient (2x-3x) for ammo, I bet it would still be used. Ship hangar: This seems to much of a token gesture than anything solid. Why can't ORE Engineers convert this into a ore hangar? Put the ore into the ship's cargo hold, have the compressed ore pop out into this 600km3 one. I still maintain that this is a ship that can do too much for too many people. It should have been two ships, or even three. A jump-capable mini-freighter (carrier hull); A mobile ore/industry ship (carrier hull); and a mining foreman vessel (tractor beams, scanners, and gang mods). What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Marie Mahro Conflagration Mining	Posted - 2007.08.07 13:18:00 - [231] Originally by: Dr Aryandi Take that one step further and allow it to ingest roids. The whole asteroid would be engulfed by the ship and then fed into the compression lines. Different from mining because it could take fixed time per roid - and take quite a while - so you want to pick the roids with a lot of ore in them using the scanners while the mining barges take the slightly smaller roids. CCP, if you have made up your mind about the Industrial Capital ship, unmake it. Change all your ideas and base it around this one idea. I believe that would be the future of mining, a giant barge (i.e. a capital ship) that slowly moves through the belt with a large hole at the front. The tractor beams are used to guide the roids inside the hole and internal strip miners rip the roid to pieces. The ore is then fed through the interior of the ship towards the ore compressor, where it is compressed and stored in its ore cargo bay. All this may take time and whilst the strip miners are active, the industrial Capital can't move. I would train the earth for a ship that cool. Imagine the spectacle of seeing 2 or 3 of these destroying a belt. Not particularly fast, but impressive.
Goti Evans	Posted - 2007.08.07 14:15:00 - [232] just a minor Gripe but Ore Purification seems to fit the industry theam better then Ore Compression. I do like the Idear of an Ore Bay, perhaps accessable by Frigters/Other Capitals whilst in industry mode? gives an option for longer mining ops as has rightly been said this ship will be full too dam fast.
Backdaft	Posted - 2007.08.07 14:26:00 - [233] Edited by: Backdaft on 07/08/2007 14:29:14 Originally by: CCP Chronotis Provisional capacities as follows: Cargohold = 25,000m3 Corp Hanger = 10,000m3 Ship Maintenance Bay = 600,000m3 (restricted to mining barges, exhumers, industrials and transports). Very nice. I've notice ppl keep complaining that it's too similar to a carrier's capabilities, but they are completely overlooking that large cargohold -and I'm assuming that's a base value before cargo expander mods. If so, then it looks like 1 repackaged BS could be fitted into it w/ max'd expanders -Very nice. Someone mentioned the idea of starting a bunch of compression jobs just before coming out of Core mode, which is cool -but then the ship is still looking at one more deployment to get the jobs back out, albeit that could be done in a safer place. That seems fine. I'd love to use this as a glorified freighter so I'm really hoping it has a jump range comparable to a carrier. I like the idea of having it use Heavy Water for fuel. I recommend adjusting the size of HW down to .15, comparable to isotopes, so you can raise the amount of fuel burned. This would also help POS care-takers with limited hauler skills. In a mining Op I really see at least one carrier coming along to support the Op for both defense and to bring along other defensive ships. So I'd recommend a small boost in the clone vat size to 6 or 8 pilots. The addition of two-way jump clone functionality would be nice, and reducing the jc delay from 24 hours down to 12 hours would help. Perhaps the easiest way to implement this two-way feature would be to offer 1/2 price on a person's next death clone purchase if he self-destructs next to a ship with an active clone bay. I'd like to offer another suggestion: If the idea is to allow more mining ships out to the site without boosting the maint bay any larger -then have the ORE-CAp bring out repackaged exhumers and their mods in the CHA. Jettison the ships once onsite and allow other miners to use the SMA for fitout. Now add the capability for the ORECA, or optionally a POS CHA, to repackage those ships after the op. Or, as a twist, you could instead make ship bundling/repackaging a runnable job on an ORECA assembly line. I really like this idea, because for some time now I've felt ccp has been hurting logistics by not allowing an easier method for the transportation of rigged ships. Allowing ships, even rigged ones, to be bundled/shrink-wrapped/compressed seems to be the perfect solution. A kind of temporary "Planck can" that pops when the ship-bundle is ejected into space. Such ships would still go into the maintenance bay. And this method should work even on damaged ships! And they could go into Freighters! Then an ORECA becomes invaluable in supporting POS evacuations. In this case though, it seems an appropriate requirement that the shrink-wrapped ship's cargohold be empty. Recommended ship compression would be 2 to 1 or less -and yes that should be just enough to get 1 shrink-wrapped, rigged, BS into the maintenance bay. The only other request I have is to please, please create smaller versions of freighter cans. Let ORECA's and Freighters haul goods for many corpmates at once and still keep all the goods segregated -it will save us countless headaches.
Iesiama Nobalte Chinese ISK Farmers	Posted - 2007.08.07 14:54:00 - [234] Ancestol vely ploud. OLE finarry give ship for happiness to famiry. Our colpolation vely small and fry onry small ship, but now have leason to fry big ship! Lucky numbel 2, 6, 8! Jokes aside, while I'm looking forward to the ORE capship, I see a few problems with it. First of all, there doesn't seem to be any reason at all to have it actually IN the belt with the rest of the mining gang. Secondly, there doesn't seem to be any reason at all to have more than one in any given mining op. If this is a ship that ends up sitting at a POS and only doing compression and providing gang bonuses all day long, it's going to end up being the most boring ships in the game. Give us a reason to bring not only one but a fleet of these behemoths into a belt. Allow it to field carriers or mothership type numbers of mining drones, for example, with appropriate bonuses to them as well. Another option is a capital mining laser to be used while in industrial mode. That'd make it a viable option to field large number of these ships, as well as making them a nice target for any pirates that happen to pass by. Even the rockmunching idea is a good way to bring these ships onto the field. Dreadnaughts need to be on the front lines to be of any use. Carriers and motherships, while being able to sit at POSes and assign fighters still need to be outside of the POS shields. In many situations, forward deployed fighters and motherships have turned the tides of battles. Heck, even freighters need to travel around to serve their purpose. The only option I see for these ships is to have a single one of them sitting at a POS doing more or less nothing but running compression jobs. As it is, a carrier or mothership is arguably a better ship for mining ops than this, as they can not only provide roughly the same jump-in and hauling services, but also deploy large numbers of mining drones and actually participate in the mining as well. Post with your main or STFU
Kvarium Ki Legion Du Lys GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.07 15:24:00 - [235] Edited by: Kvarium Ki on 07/08/2007 15:29:33 I don't understand why you are making a mining ship that can not mine. At least let it fit some strip miners and let it mine something between a retreiver and a hulk. Or give it big bonuses to mining drones, 100% bonus to mining yield of drones per level, 5% bonus to mining drone navigation speed per level. EDIT. Or make it an ice mining specialist, seriously ice mining is the most boring thing in EVE make this ship mine twice as much as the makinaw and convert the makinaw to a low end mining specialist.
Caligulus Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.08.07 17:58:00 - [236] It defenitly needs some tweaking. Another great logistical bonus would be to expedite the timers involved in anchoring and putting online towers and POS modules. If this is supposed to be a capital industrial ship, lets see it give some love to the logistics involved in 0.0 live. Like compressing POS fuels so we only need to refuel them once a damn month.
Amateratsu Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.07 18:55:00 - [237] No disrespect to the devs, But the provitional cargo space is laughable. My Hulk with gang bonus's will fill that 25k cargobay in just 12 minutes. ONE SINGLE HULK - 12 MINUTES even compressed, 3 - 4 hulks are going to fill that cargo bay so fast you won't even have time to blink. You'll be lucky if you get a single 5 minute industrial cycle completed before its full. The compression ratio or cargobay needs to be drastically increased (at least 10 x) otherwise this ship will be useless. i can just see it now, spend a couple hours scouting out a nice quiet system, jump capital ship in, deploy hulks/miners, spend 5 minutes mining.... sorry guys your 5 minutes mining is up, cargobays are FULL,.... OH CRAP i don't have the space to repack the hulks:( have to jettison some of that ore.... what a waste of time and effort that was
Imhothar Xarodit Minmatar Wolverine Solutions Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.07 19:08:00 - [238] Originally by: Caligulus It defenitly needs some tweaking. Another great logistical bonus would be to expedite the timers involved in anchoring and putting online towers and POS modules. If this is supposed to be a capital industrial ship, lets see it give some love to the logistics involved in 0.0 live. Like compressing POS fuels so we only need to refuel them once a damn month. Towers ont est server already got largely increased fuel bays, so this is already solved. And Amateratsu, I agree the cargo bay right now is ridiculous regarding the mining power of a Hulk, but you don't repackage ships in a ship maintenance bay, they go there assembled and its seperated from the normal cargo/corp hangars.
Amateratsu Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.07 19:14:00 - [239] Originally by: Imhothar Xarodit Originally by: Caligulus It defenitly needs some tweaking. Another great logistical bonus would be to expedite the timers involved in anchoring and putting online towers and POS modules. If this is supposed to be a capital industrial ship, lets see it give some love to the logistics involved in 0.0 live. Like compressing POS fuels so we only need to refuel them once a damn month. Towers ont est server already got largely increased fuel bays, so this is already solved. And Amateratsu, I agree the cargo bay right now is ridiculous regarding the mining power of a Hulk, but you don't repackage ships in a ship maintenance bay, they go there assembled and its seperated from the normal cargo/corp hangars. Yes im aware that the ships are placed in the ship maitenace bay assembled/seperate from the cargobay. the last part of my post was meant as a sarcastic joke
Czar BSS Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.08.07 20:49:00 - [240] Edited by: Czar BSS on 07/08/2007 20:52:39 I don't see why ccp are trying to make an all in one ship here. PVP characters have options. PVP Capital pilots have 16 possible choices to work towards. This includes a path including dread/carrier/mom/titan. I understand training all four races is not likely, just saying they at LEAST have a 4 ship career path to look towards. I would say we need a mining turret based cap ship. We need a mining fighter/drone based cap ship. We need a mining drone based gang link super cap ship. And we need a massive mining mobile station type super cap ship that handles logistics that many titans are saddled with at the moment. Hey maybe you could even give some innovative new combat capabilities back to titans and moms and let the mining/logistic caps handle it. I not saying an ore cap isin't a good idea, I just think if you try to make it "kinda" good at 20 things it will excell at none of them. Give miners and industrialists and "endgame" scenario and skill path to work towards too.
Friedrich IX Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.08.07 21:11:00 - [241] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn A quick question, is moving compressed unrefined minerals is better (m3-wise) than the "refined minerals and produced into items method" ? Minerlas take less room, atm, then compressed ore. --- Hadean Drive Yards
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.07 22:12:00 - [242] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Some more answers; Why would we put this ship in a belt? Probably the most challenging aspect of the design, especially where it was not to mine itself. In the future, it is our hope to make gang bonuses only apply when the assigned gang booster is in the same grid. Command ships should really be in the 'arena' as well. The bonus of the ship whilst in the belt but not in 'industrial' mode are the use of the capital tractor beam and nullcapital shield transporter range bonus alongside the ships own shield tank (7 med slots so a capital shield booster and bunch of hardners are possible for eg).null So you can still selectively choose when to be in the belt, at least until we hope to make the changes to gang boosting in a future patch. In short, we fully expect players to use it in scenarios which minimise risk of its loss. It is human nature to do so (unless your rich and bored) so the risk of putting it in the belt will have to be weighed carefully baring in mind the bonuses gained in each scenario. Re: 'POS bubbles', they were one of the first things considered and also the first to be thrown out, they are simply far too exploitable in scenarios where the ship is not meant to be. Regarding the Industrial Core I The Industrial Core has a duration of 5 minutes and a base fuel consumption of 200 strontium modified by the Industrial Reconfiguration skill (-20 stront per lvl) and -5% per level of capital industrial ships skill so with maximum skills reduces this to 80 stront per 5 minutes. When this module is not active, no new jobs can be installed on the ship's assemblylines and current jobs are paused. Ore Compression The blueprints will be cheap and the compressed ore will be refineable. Having 'reverse process' blueprints seems a little too much really currently. The compressed ore portion count is 1, as opposed to normal ore which is between 200-500 for eg and refines for the same amount as normal ore. The exact rates of compression are still being balanced but the ballpark is around 20% of original volume. Conceived Example: mercoxit is 40m3 * portion (250) = 10,000m3 volume, compressed mercoxit is provisionally 2,000m3 and a portion count of 1. The blueprint takes 250 regular mercoxit and creates 1 compressed mercoxit per run with a base run time of 10 seconds so there will be a fair amount of micromanagement needed during the mining op to compress the ore and put it into appropriate hold for transport to the nearest refinery. Note: the requirement for the Ore Compression skill was dropped. So only two new skills are now required (Capital Industrial Ships and Industrial Reconfiguration). The blueprints require the relevant ore processing skill to use eg. mercoxit processing. Usual Disclaimer! Everything stated is subject to change before the patch Kinda hard on armor tankers dont you think?
Imhothar Xarodit Minmatar Wolverine Solutions Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.07 22:47:00 - [243] The ORE ships have always been shield tankers (all Exhumers have 4 med slots) so it's logical this one is a shield tanker as well. An armor tank will be glad about shield boost as well. It's stil better than none
Sylfamas Caldari Sarmizegetusa	Posted - 2007.08.08 00:29:00 - [244] Edited by: Sylfamas on 08/08/2007 00:29:29 Very few will buy this ORE Capital Ship. I think it's really not what many of us had in mind when saying that we need better mining barges. You can easily go with thie capital ship and 4 hulks (or 2 whatever) and only return with the capital ship (which does no mining at all). So it's useless for the average miner. -----------------Signature------------------------- I only have one rule: Everyone fights, no one quits.
Riddick Valer	Posted - 2007.08.08 01:46:00 - [245] Edited by: Rid*** Valer on 08/08/2007 01:47:24* I agree with an earlier comment that instead of a 1 size fits all approach to Industrial caps, a few different specialized ships might be better. 1. Portable refiner. Strong Gang bonuses for mining, small-medium cargo bay, medium jump range, when deployed can refine minerals, tractor beams to bring in cans. The limited cargo bay makes it less useful as a transport, but refining the ore does a great job of helping make efficient use of haulers. At peak skills, its efficiency is still slightly less then a normal station. 2. Drone Miner. Medium Gang bonuses for mining, allow the use of mining fighters when deployed. Should have a medium-large cargo bay, but limited jump range to prevent its use as a transport. Allow the use of cap shield transporters with a bonus to range. 3. Jump Freight. Huge cargo bay. Long jump range. Please stop using carriers for basic market runs. 4. Portable Production. Allows for the use of several (2-3) assembly lines when deployed. Can produce any item, but at a slower time (10-20% slower) and efficiency (10-20% more waste). Decent cargo bay, with a medium jump range. No portable compression. For me, compression seems wasted. If the ship just sits at the POS anyway, Is it really that useful to compress it there? Why not just use the existing logistical chains most alliances already have in place to deal with ore. The ship isn't really worth the time/money for that use. These specialized ships would allow industrial characters to aim towards a specific niche, and exploit that niche. Several of these ships would also be useful in places other then a POS. Tractor/Refining at the field, handing off to a Freighter to jump back to allied territory, or even better, handing off to the production ship for some front-line re-inforcements and ammo.
Ford Hakata Hakata Group	Posted - 2007.08.08 02:13:00 - [246] I have several issues. 1) Ship hangar is too small. 3 Covetor-sized barges? Even with a HUGE gang bonus (allowing these 3 hulks to be as efficient as 5), AND being able to jump right into some rich Arkonor-heavy system, it still looks like the risk/reward ratio is WAY too high. First you can only jump in a very few people (reducing the reward-potential quite a bit), but if a corp should try it anyway, one might only make it work by jumping in several capitals at the same time, which frankly doesn't improve the risk/reward ratio much at all, and still puts the ORE capital mining op well out of reach of players who don't have the resources to play the sovereignity game but still want to "ninja-mine" a little where they're not supposed to. 2) Capital tractor beams? And a ship hangar that is limited to only store hauling ships and mining barges? What's the point with bringing haulers if you can use the tractor beam, or vice versa? Secondly, should the ORE ship also tank? I'd assume you (the devs behind this ship) think so, since you think that the ORE capital ship should be in the same asteroid belt as the miners... Or did you perhaps mean that some other ships should be brought in for tanking? Or that the _miners_ should tank? Letting the ORE capital tank raises the risk involved in a mining op even more, since it is both tanking rats AND stuck in deployed mode AND a likely primary if hostiles should arrive. I think this ORE ship should be called the "Sitting Duck" class capital. 3) Well... Being able to compress ore before transport may be dandy, but it's not that much cargo space in that ship! Even if one can get the cargo space up to 1,500,000m3 (using Cargo Expander II's + Rigs, and assuming 8 low-slots), then the three-hulks-that-are-as-efficient-as-five will be able to fill the entire cargo-hold in two hours... OK, that's decent. Will it have the ORE capital have 8 low-slots? With 5, the total mining time is reduced to a mere hour.... That's not much. And what would be the point in having that many low-slots when it's only sensible to fit it ONE way in order to make the entire ship useful? Better to have a much bigger cargo bay as default, and fewer low-slots. I'd still rather see a self-propelled "POS" ship where one can anchor (quickly!) at a moon or in an asteroid belt, get a shield bubble, and even anchor a couple of useful POS modules, like an intensive refinery or a corp hangar for temporary storage while compressing and/or refining is happening.... --
Tolomea Gallente 5th Front enterprises New Eve Order	Posted - 2007.08.08 05:06:00 - [247] Originally by: Apertotes the problem is who will train for it. miners will have to train all the leadership and spaceship command skills. but they will already have the reprocess skills. command pilots will have to train the industrial capital skill and all the reprocessing skills, but they will already have the leadership skills. anyway you look at it, it is a problem. miners wont want to train all those leadership skills just for one ship, and command pilots wont want to train all those industrial skills only to compress the ore. Originally by: Riley Craven I'd also like to note while this ship does address the gap in mindlinks for the mining profession. I'd be willing to bet that alot of leadership types would still love a mining type command ship that just did mindlink bonus. amen I have a command character, she's been training for about 9 months and has over a year more training queued up in evemon, this is pure leadership stuff, at the end of that time she will not be able to do anything aside from lead, no mining, no refining, research or manufacturing, no drones guns or missiles and no tank and now I find out I have to train a bunch of barge and industrial skills to get access to a 25% mining leadership bonus, what a crock seriously this ship is like a flying swiss army knife and that is a very bad thing specialisation is good, it allows younger players to make a valuable contribution without needing lots of skills, it allows corps composed only of younger players to cover all the areas of the game by have multiple specialists, and it encourages teamwork tying the skill trees and jobs of leadership, manufacturing, hauling and mining together like this is the antithesis of specialisation
Lougra Gallente United Forces Industrial	Posted - 2007.08.08 06:08:00 - [248] Originally by: FireFoxx80 Chronotis, I hope we can assume several things about this capital ship: - Restricted to 0.4 and below - When the Industrial Core is inactive, the ship is pretty useless (from a mining perspective) - Its Ore Compression feature is heavily nerfed; it will not replace the 'Miner > Can > Hauler > POS/Outpost > FreighterToEmpire' chain entirely. - Its Shield/Armour/Structure and resists are below that of a combat carrier; after all, this is a T1 industrial ship. Let is tank 2-3 Battleship rats with T2/Officer mods - fine, but nothing beyond that. As a miner (I know the shame), I can see this is indeed a good thing for industrialists. However, I get the feeling that you've just produced a ship that can do all the things on the list of 'miner's wants'; rather than pick and choose and make sacrifices. In this case, two ships really would have been better than one; a ore-compressing jump-capable carrier/transport; and a gang bonus providing survey/logistics (tractor beam) ship. What this devblog seems to imply, is that this uber-mining ship is capable of almost solo-operation (jump capable, hauler, mining fighters, ore compression); even scarier is the clone vat and extensive hangar - it doesn't take a genius to see that it can ferry a bunch of hulks and pilots out into space. I bet a good amount of ISK that in six months we start seeing 0.0 macro miners/farmers using this sort of ship, fitted with a cloak, and positioned 200km off the belt. Quite simply, unless the limits I stated at the start of my post are heard, this ship is too powerful. If that ship is not capable to carry the main ships for the operation, aka barges, then is quite useless. Just imagine that ship waiting the rest of the fleet 5-6 jumps away, and the mining barges using gates to reach that point. Looks like the sheep went out of the sheepfold. Carebear is the surname that you got, if you enjoy to play eve, in other way than the rest want YOU to play it.
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.08 07:09:00 - [249] Im such a big carebear I practicly have a Veld Roid tatoo'd on my belly. This ship needs a MUCH bigger cargo hold or a MUCH bigger Corp Hangar Array. Think "Capital Industrial Ship" and not "Capital Mining Ship" -- Frankly right now its not good. I dont mean "Not that good" or "Not as good as I want" but really and truly not good. It needs a MUCH larger ore bay. Its got to be able to cary prodigious amounts of compressed ore. I dont care if its through EXTREME compression or through larger space in the hold itself. There are a lot of "Industry" tasks out there, and a multi use capital ship can fill these areas nicely. Remember Carriers shouldnt be logistic capital ships, thats what THIS should be. Make it better than a carrier for moving stuff around, ESPECIALLY ore and mins.
Tolomea Gallente 5th Front enterprises New Eve Order	Posted - 2007.08.08 07:25:00 - [250] Edited by: Tolomea on 08/08/2007 07:27:57 Further to my swiss army knife comments from like 3 posts up... The currently proposed ship fills the following roles. 1: ore compression 2: deep space op staging 3: leadership 4: anti rat defence 5: op hauling 6: deep space freighting 7: surveying Really these should be filled separately by several different ships. This ship should cover 1 and some of 2, any further staging needed can be handled by additional carriers, or larger capital ships. 3 and some 4: A new mining fleet command ship, much like the existing fleet command ships with similar skill reqs, after that we have plenty of combat ships that can provide additional rat defence. 5: Existing haulers (the stuff is going to be compressed after all, reducing hauling effort by up to 5x) 6: A new logistics carrier 7: The recon ships seem a reasonable fit for this role/bonus.
Nye Jaran	Posted - 2007.08.08 07:40:00 - [251] Since everyone else is pitching in their two cents, I'll add mine.... Skills Capital Ships 4 - This is fairly harsh, even a mothership doesn't require this. I say make it 1, like the carrier and dread. Mining Barge 5 - It needs more than just this. Exhumers 5, BS 5, Transport Ships 5, it doesn't matter much, it just needs another skill. Assorted Bays Cargo Bay - Latest note says 25km3. At the very least change it to 27.5k m3, so it can actually fit a full can. Ship Maintenance Bay - The restriction is nice, but does it filter down into the cargo of the industrials as well? I'm thinking that someone can get a few itty 5s, throw in the cargo optimization rigs and T2 expanders and suddenly your moving non-mining ships with the ability to jump out the pilots via the clone vat. Also, and probably more importantly... 600k m3? That's it? That's what, 2 hulks (250k m3 x 2) and.. what? Seriously, that REALLY needs to be addressed. If it can't jump out 3-4 barges / exhumers and a hauler in one go, it's worthless. Corp Hangar Bay - You can fit a small tower, intensive refining array, and (for arguments sake) 4 small turrets. I'd ask to open it up to 12km3, to provide for a little extra flexibility, be it for a little more variation in POS parts, fuel and ammo, etc. Aside from that, it's just eh. I think it will probably encourage the use of the force recon ships with the cyno bonus in ninja mining ops. It might be a good idea to restrict the clone vat to characters with mining skills or create a second kind of clone vat specific to the ship that would require an extra skill (Vat o' Mining Clones?) to use it, with a secondary requirement of MB 5 or something. It wouldn't completely prevent abuse, but it'd be a time sink. Like others have said, I don't see this being useful without a carrier jumping in as well. I can see this ship getting jumped in by that cyno bonussed force recon ship, setting up the small POS, popping out the barges and hauler while the carrier jumps in and the two BC / CS pilots run out to the system. BC / CS pilots clear the rats and provide the slightest modicum of proection during the op, the carrier provides combat oriented bonuses and a little extra oomph in the form of fighters, the ore cap ship providers the miner bonuses, the miners and hauler do their respective things, and when things get done, everyone packs up, heads out, and this is a hell of a run on sentence
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.08.08 07:58:00 - [252] Originally by: Lougra If that ship is not capable to carry the main ships for the operation, aka barges, then is quite useless. Just imagine that ship waiting the rest of the fleet 5-6 jumps away, and the mining barges using gates to reach that point. Looks like the sheep went out of the sheepfold. But a ship capable of hauling 10-12 hulks: - Would have it's cargohold full of compressed ore in about 5 minutes. Due to number of miners. - Takes us back to the problem carriers had, of being able to transport an unbalanced number of mining vessels out into the 0.0 market. Hulks can be tanked, Barges can be escorted. Asking your miners to make 5-6 jumps is nothing compared to the bonus that this capital vessel would still offer. Alliance mining ops would still go ahead, Miners would be escorted to the belts, Tankers would still exist to tank the 3xBS spawns, Industrials would still exist to haul ore to stations, only there would be less of them. This ship doesn't really change the approach to mining, it just makes it a little bit more convenient. if the gang effect grid nerf comes into effect, I doubt these ships will be used. I agree that a system-wide gang bonus is overpowered, but I dont know of a better solution. Considering we have some belts that go off-grid, I am not sure the 'grid limit' is best.. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Sotha Sill	Posted - 2007.08.08 11:49:00 - [253] So, the resounding consensus on this is that this new ship seems to be the suck-ass toy of only large alliances and even then it's too crippled to replace the role of today's current hauler/carriers. And being both totally defenseless and without the ability to fit mining lasers it will probably spend all it's time floating at a pos compressing ore......and all of this for the bargain basement price of 1 Bil+ isk ??? So where's the "Miner's Cause" exactly?
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.08 12:03:00 - [254] Originally by: Sotha Sill So, the resounding consensus on this is that this new ship seems to be the suck-ass toy of only large alliances and even then it's too crippled to replace the role of today's current hauler/carriers. And being both totally defenseless and without the ability to fit mining lasers it will probably spend all it's time floating at a pos compressing ore......and all of this for the bargain basement price of 1 Bil+ isk ??? So where's the "Miner's Cause" exactly? Im in a 0.0 alliance. This is useless for us, providing no substantian benefit over a carrier, especially since it cant have fighters or triage mode.
Imhothar Xarodit Minmatar Wolverine Solutions Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.08 15:24:00 - [255] Edited by: Imhothar Xarodit on 08/08/2007 15:25:58 Apart from the mining bonus, I cannot see any real reason why I should bother getting one. Changing gang mechanics in the future to force it into a belt is no solution! Seriously, ore compression sounded nice in the beginning, but it is so ridiculous right now it won't really be a solution to jetcan mining (just one example). A skilled Hulk pilot can pull 20,000m3 ore every few minutes out of the belts and this ship has to be able to keep up with it. Especially if you consider it to be parting with up to 4 Hulks. It already fails at the cargo bay capacity... And where is the one thing that is needed the most in low-sec/0.0, namely protection. A simple bonus to shield transporters won't really do it. A Covetor can be insta-popped with one volley before you are even able to lock/boost it. Hulks may be tougher but not that much. Improve the Industrial Core to increase all mining barges' and exhumer's shield resitancies to 99.99% while it is activated, then you at least have real reason to burn Strontium for (who wants to use Stront only to compress minerals or get a scanner bonus?). Normal drones for defense are also useless until they have a really huge drone bonus or can at least fit 5 fighters or 10 drones or something like that. And, as it is called the "Capital Industry Ship" and not the "Capital Mining Ship" it should have major benefits to logistics, aka hauling, beating a carrier at it, as a carrier is stil more of a combat support vessel than a logistics ship.
Druadan Gallente Aristotle Enterprises Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.08.08 16:02:00 - [256] I'm not going to lock a billion ISK down in a belt for a 5% bonus to the effect of mining foreman links per level, especially not when the ship fails at its intended purpose of fielding large-scale mining operations. Three hulks of ship maintenance bay (assuming you go ahead with making barge 200,000m3) and that paltry amount of cargo space, fancy-pants ore compression or none, is simply not enough to warrant putting a billion ISK into a belt without the capability of defending itself. I'd rather buy a carrier and field the mining op out of that. Considering the fact that I'm going to have to jump other capitals in to protect it, or have a sizeable escort fly round to the target system, I would rather just have the other capitals field the mining op. Only way I'm going to get one of these is if it truly becomes able to facilitate the rapid deployment of large-scale (6 hulks and sufficient haulers) mining operations. Otherwise, it's just not worth my ISK. ### I nearly finish carriers, and they nerf it. I nearly finish Amarr recons, and they make them useless. Vagabond pilots beware... I have bought Minmatar Cruiser.
Xthril Ranger hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.08 16:59:00 - [257] Originally by: Sotha Sill So, the resounding consensus on this is that this new ship seems to be the suck-ass toy of only large alliances and even then it's too crippled to replace the role of today's current hauler/carriers. You are mistaken if you think this is tool for large alliances. We already got the tools for moving large amounts of ore/Ice to refineries and a ms ship bay is more than 4 times the size and it can use 20 mining drones. This ORE ship is for the solo corps and alliances in npc regions. . you'll never jump alone
KHEN New Horizons	Posted - 2007.08.08 17:43:00 - [258] Edited by: KHEN on 08/08/2007 17:43:46 To hear things about ice compression hurts my physical engine. Hey can I have a bottle of compressed water ?
Artmedis Valben Gallente Lobster of Babel	Posted - 2007.08.08 18:40:00 - [259] This ship has potential. Needs larger bays though: - has to be able to field at the very least 4-5 fitted and ready Hulks in the ship mainenence Bay. - needs to be able to compress and store what maxed skill gang with 5 Hulks can mine in 3-5 hours. The Clone Vat Bay needs to be open to more than just 5 characters. Unless you set it up before each op and the pilot can assign clones to gang/corp members. Must be able to Tank any NPC spawn in 0.0 and protect the Hulks while they mine. I see this ship being escorted by other capitals, and Force Recons being used to cyno them in. Having a 5% per skill level bonus to cycles, range and cap use, plus a hefty yield bonus while in deployed mode seems like incentive to use it. The alliances will have one along for any major ops, just for the bonus, and medium sized Empire corps that can field this ship and a supporting capital will use this for Ninja-mining in 0.0 if the high end ore price rise enough to make it worth while. For required ship skills try BC 5 and MB 5 slightly less than the Combat Capitals but still substantial and mostly part of any serious leaders skilltree anyways :) ___________________________________________ Selling PERFECT PRINTS of almost all seeded BPOs. Lobster of Babel currently holds 671 of the 728 Tech 1 BPOs seeded. 7 ships and Capital are missing.
Demjon	Posted - 2007.08.08 20:22:00 - [260] Edited by: Demjon on 08/08/2007 20:24:51 Your talking like you could even afford it, if your a solo miner and you sound like one. I mine with my corp or without them in 0.0 and i pump out 20m+ isk an hour with or without them. As to the issue of "affording" you do the math, its just a matter of time m8.
ToxicFire Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.08.08 21:24:00 - [261] I rofl at the fact alot of people are talking like the ship was designed around the concept of ninja mining... drops a bombshell it probably wasn't, it was designed around the concept of making large corp/alliance logistics easier not for some sneaky behind the lines mining. Frankly you jump into some alliance back garden and a single pilot from the alliance spots u on scanner your either going to have to abandon the op wasting the effort you've put in, or your gonna be caught by a roving gang while your in industrial siege mode, pinned then blown out of the water as you won't be able to adequately defend yourself. All in all this is a ship thats designed to be deployed as a sub unit of a larger operation, where a normal fleet goes in first secures an area then this ship jumps in with a mining team. Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
Kera Va'Tauri	Posted - 2007.08.08 23:47:00 - [262] I have a pretty cool idea that solves several problems and I don't think it would cause any need to recode large portions of Eve. Lets create a mid slot item that will fix most of the problems I've seen so far regarding this ship. Lets call this mod "Mining Booster I" for now. Mining Booster I Works like a Remote Sensor Booster (targets friendly ships and confers bonus when activated) Confers between 50% and 75% extra shield resist to ship targeted by module. Would need to be tested to determine amount. Confers 50% extra mining yield to targeted ship All modules cost an additional 500% cap to activate on targeted ship. All weapons on target ship gain -100% damage. Target ship may only benefit from a single Mining Booster I at a time. How this solves the following problems: Solution to problem 1: Reason to put this ship in a belt. The Hulks / mining ships get major boost to shield Resists (which also happens to tie in well with bonus to shield transporters) and mining yield. Since you would have to be within targeting range of the hulks to use this module, you'll need to have it in the belts. As a bonus Solution to problem 2: Cap reduction gang mod We can all pretty much agree that this mod is useless on current ships. With the cap increase from "Mining Booster I", however, all modules become unsustainable cap drainers. Queue the mining cap reduction gang mod (and boost its effect so it effectively negates the negative cap effects of a "Mining Booster I") and it offsets the cap penalty from the "Mining Booster I". Of course, this would make mining lasers cost essentially no cap in a normal gang with this mod, but does that really matter at this point? Solution to problem 3: ORE Cap Ship used in combat role "Mining Booster I" makes a ship very durable, which would be a very, very bad thing in combat. However, between the cap penalty and -damage mod, there would be no real reason to bring the ORE cap ship to battles. Is this a viable solution?
Vladimir Ugsta	Posted - 2007.08.09 00:17:00 - [263] Originally by: CCP Chronotis In all honesty, we have not seen much use (if any) of this function on moms and titans, as its application is fairly limited (perhaps a good reason to look at it again in the future and give it a two way functionality). In terms of the goal of this ship, which is nomad mining operations and logistical support. It suits that role perfectly allowing someone to scout out a nice quiet system, pop a cyno, jump the ORE cap ship in, rest of the gang jump clone in and board the hulks and start mining whilst the ORE cap most likely sets up a small starbase. The goal is very much to empower small gangs to operate in unsafe areas of space where getting down into that space is dangerous for smaller gangs. The maximum number of jump clones allowed on the ship is limited to 5 currently. The cost is still subject to balancing alongside the other stats following feedback here. What happens to the hulk pilots when the cap ship jumps out? If the hulk pilots clone jump in, there should be a way for them to get out with the cap ship. Maybe we can have the pods "dock" into the vat bays for the jump? Just a suggestion.
Jason Starhawk	Posted - 2007.08.09 03:32:00 - [264] what are the chances that it will have the ability for corp members to hitch a ride in the ship along with the pilot, or is there plans for a passenger liner type ship as well to move a whole squad of members through jumps as well like an armored personnel transport for those who do not have the jump clone ability yet?
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.09 07:40:00 - [265] The vessel nees to have a 20:1 compression ratio or something so it is able to carry all the ore you got on your 'expedition' home. It needs to have a minimum 27500m3 bay so it can tractor in a full jetcan then compress it then place it into its ~15,000m3 corp hangar. The process of compressing ore shouldn't be taking too much more than a 1 minute cycle (or the ship becomes rediculously vunerable). Another idea is to make it able to cloak while compressing or something so if local fills with hostiles you can just hit cloak button and decloak when your cycle is finished then jump. When entering the average system in 0.0 it takes me arround 2 minutes to pinpoint the belt a hostile is in (bit of luck involved aswell). All it takes is a HAC in local to sniff you your belt pop a cyno and you can kiss your mining gang goodbye. The preposed 10 minute compressing mode is rediculous and makes the ship way too vunerable.
bundy bear	Posted - 2007.08.09 07:57:00 - [266] Capital strip miners and capital mining drone ships are a bad idea. They will just make the hulk obselete and everyone will just be using capitals. CCP said a while ago that there will not be a capital ship for mining ore and I agree 100% with this. Mining is different to PVP which is what alot of people fail to understand. In PvP smaller ship fill niches. Tacklers tackle, snipers snipe. Snipers are usually useless without tacklers and dictors. Smaller mining ships dont fill niches, they just mine less. Adding a bigger mining ship will just mean everyone has to train it up and get one to remain competitive. It doesnt change mining at all, It just seperates the capital miners from other miners profit margins. The capital ship CCP is making promotes team work and logistics. It gives miners more options than just sitting in a belt by yourself which is what half you people seem to want.
Amateratsu Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.09 08:47:00 - [267] Originally by: twit brent It needs to have a minimum 27500m3 bay so it can tractor in a full jetcan then compress it then place it into its ~15,000m3 corp hangar. 27,500m3 cargobay and 15,000m3 corp hanger is simply not good enough. 4 maxed out hulk pilots with all max skills/implants/equip (best named mining upgrades) (plus the new bonus's from this new ship) will be capable of mining well over 800,000m3 per hour. with the current proposed compression ratio that can be reduced to 160,000m3. over 6 times what a 25,000m3 cargobay can hold. keep in mind those cargo bays also need to carry fuel for the jumpdrive, fuel for the industrial core, mining crystals ect. if the ship has to keep jumping back to a station to offload ore, leaving the defenceless hulks back in the belt tapping their fingers waiting..... not my idea of fun.... this ship needs a cargobay capable of carrying at least 2 - 3 hours worth of ore (500 - 600km3) from 3 to 4 hulks, or it will simply not be worth the time and effort.
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.09 10:15:00 - [268] Originally by: Amateratsu Originally by: twit brent It needs to have a minimum 27500m3 bay so it can tractor in a full jetcan then compress it then place it into its ~15,000m3 corp hangar. 27,500m3 cargobay and 15,000m3 corp hanger is simply not good enough. 4 maxed out hulk pilots with all max skills/implants/equip (best named mining upgrades) (plus the new bonus's from this new ship) will be capable of mining well over 800,000m3 per hour. with the current proposed compression ratio that can be reduced to 160,000m3. over 6 times what a 25,000m3 cargobay can hold. keep in mind those cargo bays also need to carry fuel for the jumpdrive, fuel for the industrial core, mining crystals ect. if the ship has to keep jumping back to a station to offload ore, leaving the defenceless hulks back in the belt tapping their fingers waiting..... not my idea of fun.... this ship needs a cargobay capable of carrying at least 2 - 3 hours worth of ore (500 - 600km3) from 3 to 4 hulks, or it will simply not be worth the time and effort. In the post I made I suggested a 20:1 compression rate. Which to my calculations is 850,000m3. That is not including cargo expanders or the extra ore that can be kept in the cargo bays of the hulks inside the ship which should push it to something like 1,000,000m3. Which is plenty. If your mining more than that the isk value of the ore makes it worth a 2nd trip for hauling.
JForce Black Lance oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.08.09 11:09:00 - [269] For the sweet love of Jesus Christ in Heaven, fix the capacity, before you launch the most eagerly awaited and yet prenerfed useless piece of **** ship since...well, the last Minmatar ship....
Tush Kan	Posted - 2007.08.09 12:06:00 - [270] First of all, congrats to CCP for all the hard work, and for finally giving some love to the ppl that keep the EVE Universe Running. For what i'll post, i'll take into consideration the ability of the industrial Capital to pass on the compressed minerals to another ship. I think you are all thinking of a mix between small and big gangs. I can think of some ways to work with this babys, some includes POS others not. 7 man gang: - cyn opened (capable of flying industrials) - ORE comes in and tank the belt; - 4 guys clone jump in and grab the hulks; - Carrier jump in filled with industrials; - Cyn guy grabs the industrials and fill them up from the ORE Vessel; - Carrier jumps out and back in. more then this, Use a Mothership and you can clone jump some more ppl in and hulks. Theres nothing in "Mother" nor in "ship" that says that it is only a Military vessel. Just look at the case where you can stick a MS next to the ORE Vessel. I guess i don't have to say anything else. You don't want the ORE to do it all do you? If you want, a Carrier can bring a POS for a bit of support. Note: i'm not that used to CAPITALS, but i guess that the MS can be the best support for the op. Noone said it was going to be a cheap.
wiggyman Caldari Gallentean Industry Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.09 12:39:00 - [271] at the moment i have to agree the ORE cap is too nerfed, a small (15-25) fleet could carry a POS with silos, 2 med intensive renfieries, corp hanger and defensives into a system, setup. mine in the belt while the industrials tractor the full cans to them and take to the POS to refine. then a carrier can jump in and haul it back to HQ. this ships needs the corp hanger, ship bay and cargo bay unerfed, as well as some function other than compressing ore, such as using fighters to be of any real use. For ninja mining, and this is just a sugestion, possibly add a skill that reduces the chance of a cyno showing on the map by 5% per level? ----------- You might be a minmatar if... Your railguns use spent quafe cans as ammunition. You have to chase the garbage men to get your ship back on a regular basis. You spend more time duct t
Nietor	Posted - 2007.08.09 13:21:00 - [272] 1) I agree with the cargo bay being able to hold at least 27,500 m3. 2) What if you introduced a new type of cargo bay, that could only hold compressed ore? say... 1000 units of it. This could make the ship more useful for those large mining ops. Could also replace the carrier as the ore/mineral transport from 0.0 -> high-sec as i've seen in some posts. It wouldn't impose on carriers roles to transport other things, as the only type of 'stuff' that could fit into this new bay would be compressed ore. shrugs just a thought... This would also ensure that 4 hulks wouldn't fill it up too quickly. It should be able to handle an entire belts worth of ore at LEAST. 3) Also as some other people have stated, this is more of an industrial ship than a miner, so... im lost =) Why should an industrial be able to compress ore? Is it just for the hauling purposes? I can understand its inability to mine, being an industrial, but if its a hauler, let it haul! Perhaps there should be another ship for the compression aspect of it. Or even a POS structure. True, this wouldn't be getting much in-belt action, but then again, industrials don't really seem to do that anyways. 4) I think a capitol mining ship on the other hand, should be able to mine, and perhaps work in conjunction with this ship. Eating up lots of roids in its hungry mouth.
Valen Haas	Posted - 2007.08.09 13:39:00 - [273] i just had a crazy idea. Ok no POS style shield bubble for the ORE cap ship, that's fair enough, but how about allowing POS guns to be anchored to it? only powered when the ship is in siege mode? Would make the ship a decent tool for mining ops in semi-hostile systems as it could protect the op for roaming gank squads.
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.08.09 14:29:00 - [274] This ship is not designed to replace haulers! It just makes hauling ore easier. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.09 15:00:00 - [275] Originally by: FireFoxx80 This ship is not designed to replace haulers! It just makes hauling ore easier. I agree. Just like Dread's did not replace battleships. But its a Capital Industrial ship. This should be like the Dread is to the battleship. It should be able to carry massive amounts of compressed ores. Just like a dread it should do it only under certian circumstances of vulnerability. And just like haulers will allways be used to haul fittings, pos's and other things. ORE Cap Ship is to a hauler as Dreadnaughts are to Battleships.
Chi Quan Jade Phoenix Deutschland Event-Horizon	Posted - 2007.08.09 15:34:00 - [276] i dont know if it was adressed before, and neither do i know how clone bays on supercaps work, but if the procedure is like this: - online ship module on supercap - have someone install clones - jump to mining spot - miners start clonejumping in than, i see some problems with implants, the new shiny miner ones especially, as you can not really use them unless you plug one in right after the clonejump. can you clonejump FROM a clone bay? and what happens to the clones when the mining is done? you have to dock at a station in order to clonejump back to your original body. deep space has some portions without a station within 12+ jumps range and it its not guaranteed it's a friendy one. do the barges have to be in packaged mode? think about the rigs than. -- Tempus fugit --
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.09 17:25:00 - [277] Originally by: Chi Quan i dont know if it was adressed before, and neither do i know how clone bays on supercaps work, but if the procedure is like this: - online ship module on supercap - have someone install clones - jump to mining spot - miners start clonejumping in than, i see some problems with implants, the new shiny miner ones especially, as you can not really use them unless you plug one in right after the clonejump. can you clonejump FROM a clone bay? and what happens to the clones when the mining is done? you have to dock at a station in order to clonejump back to your original body. deep space has some portions without a station within 12+ jumps range and it its not guaranteed it's a friendy one. do the barges have to be in packaged mode? think about the rigs than. I would also suspect that the 24 hours period between clone jumps, could be a problem. Unless of cause the mining operations last for days. Anyhoot, todays patch updated the ore volume ratios. They now vary from 10:1 to 20:1 compression for regular ores. And 4:1 for ice ores. http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/new_rorqual.php ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering
Tonto Auri	Posted - 2007.08.09 17:44:00 - [278] Edited by: Tonto Auri on 09/08/2007 17:53:14 Originally by: Valen Haas i just had a crazy idea. Ok no POS style shield bubble for the ORE cap ship, that's fair enough, but how about allowing POS guns to be anchored to it? only powered when the ship is in siege mode? Would make the ship a decent tool for mining ops in semi-hostile systems as it could protect the op for roaming gank squads. Not that fair... But idea itself isn't that bad. Give bonuses for Sentries (HP/DMG) and it will be fine enough. And speaking about hangar.. Again, refining to minerals instead of ore compressing will solve that thing without extending cargobay. Mmm... Clonejumps... What if it can create a bridge? Jumpbridging POD is not that costly, but to bridge larger ships, it can easily run out of fuel. -- Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig>
Mean Molly	Posted - 2007.08.09 18:26:00 - [279] Uhm. Arent theese ships completely useless??? I mean, who in their right mind would take a capital to an astroidbelt and for all practical reason scramble yourelf for the duration of the mining op?!? It would be a sitting duck full of valuable mining equipment waiting to be killed. Seems you need a system with cynojammer in it, and in a remote location to get warning of BS gang, and you need valuable minerals in it. Seems to narrow the use pretty drastically. How long does it takes to deactivate the self scrambling? 10minutes? 1Minute? Pls make it above 10. I really wanna roam killing these things :D --- Live and learn, die and learn more! http://www.dukefoss.com/eve/
Marie Mahro Conflagration Mining	Posted - 2007.08.09 19:10:00 - [280] Edited by: Marie Mahro on 09/08/2007 19:10:47 Interesting skill sets. Mining Barge is rank 4 and you reqiure level 5. Advanced mass production is rank 8 and you require level 4, and to get that you need mass production at level 5. It would be faster to train my production alt, who has vertually no spaceship command skills, to fly this thing than it will for my main mining character to train. Although, capital ships at 4 which is a rank 14 skill. That'll hurt
Ronon Dex	Posted - 2007.08.09 19:21:00 - [281] Edited by: Ronon Dex on 09/08/2007 19:22:00 to train all the skills needed to use this ship provisionately im looking at 8 months worth of training:( mass production 4, capital ships 4, 10 of the processing skills to 4... (completed 6 so far) already have exumers 5 mining foreman/director/warfare link specialist at 5 and other mining skills maxed and still looking at 8 months training and thats with all 11 learning skills trained to 5 and a full set of +4 imps
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.09 22:04:00 - [282] 5-6 Devs Need to get what they have put together so far and go have a mining op. All the while during this mining op be thinking of how they can handle the ore and also what they can do when local starts filling up with badguys.
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.10 03:44:00 - [283] Your on the right track. I feel we need a lot more storage. Even with EXCELLENT scouts out, you are going to get 3-5 mins of time to get wrapped up. I agree with the 5 min seige timer. Well done there. Still risky, you still take that risk since its essentially 50-50 to get out in time before local starts exploding. But we need a lot more storage. Get 4 hulks with medium skills, + 1 Rorqual Pilot with Max skills. Mine for 3 or 4 hours. Figure that much ore. Give it that much space.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.08.10 04:05:00 - [284] Originally by: CCP Chronotis will the ship maint array be able to fit more than only 2 hulks? 4 would be nice for a good mining op! The volumes of the mining barges and exhumers have been reduced by 50,000m3 and provisionally we are looking at 3-4 hulks worth of ship maintenance bay. aaaa crud.... i was hoping for some giant-secures-in-indy-in-carrier-nerf compensation (which still has BoB's titan-bridging written all over it </tinfoil>) - putting the gist back into logistics
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.10 04:17:00 - [285] Originally by: Roemy Schneider Originally by: CCP Chronotis will the ship maint array be able to fit more than only 2 hulks? 4 would be nice for a good mining op! The volumes of the mining barges and exhumers have been reduced by 50,000m3 and provisionally we are looking at 3-4 hulks worth of ship maintenance bay. aaaa crud.... i was hoping for some giant-secures-in-indy-in-carrier-nerf compensation (which still has BoB's titan-bridging written all over it </tinfoil>) You know the more I think about it the more I think this is going to kill Indy's for mining ops. Your basicly going to have your 5 guys mining, and then your Roqual tractoring cans, compressing ore. Then when its full it jumps out and drops off at station and jumps back in. Seems like it will make mining within 1 Cyno Jump of a station completely hauler-less. The answer to "How is this any good" may be that you are intended to jump it in and out constantly to whever your refining your minerals.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.10 07:14:00 - [286] Originally by: Chruker http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/new_rorqual.php That is a really nice summary, thanks! There is a more updated version internally which should go out to sisi soon(tm). As you can see if you multiply your available storage by the compression rate and divide that by the mining rate per minute of four hulks you get figures between 1.5-6 hours of the top of my head (will update once I get to work) depending on your storage amount and ore being mined. There is also a 'hidden' capacity currently in the assemblylines, assuming you have your cargohold without GSC's then the maximum job volume is is 60,000m3 (jobs are based around a maximum of 20,000m3 per run for some ores), you can currently install 10 jobs queued and exit industry mode where they pause. There is no guarantees that will make it into the patch but personally I am OK with it currently. Oh and yes its getting a new model for those that asked and its really awesome! I'll update this and my previous posts when i get into work and answer some of the other questions as well, but as ever the usual disclaimer applies that things stated may change.

JiJiCle Gallente COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.08.10 08:13:00 - [287] sorry if I missed it but, in which patch this ship and stuff are going to hit TQ ? regarding ore compression rates, why a so low rate for ice ores ? even low end ores get a x10 compression :( at first I thought it will be x20 compression for all which was really nice, but tbh maybe a little too much for ice. but now only x4, that make a huge difference with the other ores. with x4 I don't see the point compressing ice, you'd better directly refine it in a POS with multiple mobile refinery then jump it out with rorquals/carriers. ------ COLSUP
Banlish Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.10 08:42:00 - [288] First of all Awesome, simply Awesome. I started my career mining and it's only coming full circle I believe when you said the thing will have a '60,000m3 capacity' you meant with expanders upon the hold. This seems pretty inline with what alot of people were asking for so I'm not sure alot of the people above knew that when starting saying "it's not enough!" However, I think everyone will agree that this ship will pretty much change the face of the EVE mineral/mining market as we know it. Please be aware this isn't a rant! With that said do we really have to try to make the ship so it can't be jumping large amounts of ships around? What I mean is this: Mining ops with even a few hulks can quickly turn out entire loads of ore for the intensive refinery (200,000m3 per load) With those capacities only getting higher and higher (named mining modules anyone?) the ship might need other a larger cargohold or a larger ship array. We all know ppl are going to be using the things to jump ships all over the place, but with a 1 to 5 billion ISK price tag I doubt people will be using them to move ships deep into enemy space. Suggestion Maybe as well as slightly bumping the ship hanger capacity up a tad (I think orginally it was around 1.2 million) it might be worth while to decrease the size of industrials when they are held within the industrial cap ship's corp hanger array? This would let (some crazy ppl) get some industrials with good expanders and rigs, which could be used as containers for compressed ore. This would increase the amount of ore hauling, yet make it enough of a hassle that people will have to work for it. Yes, it's exploitable for people to move other items around. But with jump bridges at POS's becoming very common soon is there really a need to try to make people work at logistics? People will be jumping freighters around enough as it is, I doubt they'll go super crazy with this ship. And even if they do, we have tons and tons of people that would love to kill these ships. Yes, people could move more 'stuff' around. Why not just accept it, but put a few limits upon it instead of what almost everyone in this thread sees as too big of a nerf before the ship is even released. Please take this in the right light. I really only want to see this ship come out the right way as it's one of the only mining improvements I've ever seen that so many people have begged for. The suggestion to maybe at least let 4 hulks with maxed links and mods fill the thing for an hour or two I believe is what most ppl want. Maybe that's too much, maybe it's right in line. I'm not 100%, but I think about 2 hours worth of ore hauling would be the best and I hope that I've made a good enough case for the devs working upon it to at least go "hmmm"
Valen Haas	Posted - 2007.08.10 08:42:00 - [289] I've just had another one of those things. You know. A headache with pictures. How about letting the Rorqual scan down deeply hidden asteroid belts, kinda like the current scannable belts but better. Or allow an other ship to scan them down. Something so the ship can be deployed in a belt but be harder for a random roaming gank squad to find and kill, tho not impossible if they use a probing covops or something.
Banlish Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.10 09:04:00 - [290] And now, Questions! If we have compressed ore at a friendly POS, will we be able to throw all of it into the refinery in it's compressed state or will we only be able to refine it at a station/outpost refinery. Part of this question I guess is will we get any penalty for doing so? Compared to the normal ore size? I think someone else asked this above but I wanted to make sure to repeat it as well as adding the penalty part to it. Same goes for ICE, and not to mention will drone compounds be compressible too? Fueling Many people have asked, but will the option to maybe use something other then topes (maybe heavy water?) to move the ship be considered? Also maybe the question about a 'neutral drive' where any isotope of any race can be used to jump the thing? Industrial Capital skill suggestion If the ship requires stront to use the industrial core, are their any plans or maybe could you guys include a skill that will help reduce that stront time usage down even further? The cycle time on this is a major point to almost everyone posting. Maybe a skill to decrease the length of the time the ship is immobile will address the issue as people could at least effect it a tiny bit? I have a few others I wanted to ask, but thier more suggestions then questions and I think it's better to save them for later. Reguardless, THANK YOU for putting the ship into the game. While I hope to one day see Mining fighters I'm still overjoyed to just see a capital ship for the industrialists. Thanks again! o7
Helison Gallente Times of Ancar Pure.	Posted - 2007.08.10 10:15:00 - [291] I think with the current stats the Rorqual will be used 5-10% for mining and 90-95% for hauling other stuff. And only a very small percentage of mining ops will probably be supported by a Rorqual. If this is ok for you: make it so. I personally would split the cargo bay in two parts, the bigger one only be available for ore (uncompressed and compressed). On the other side, I would give the rorqual 3 strip-miner slots, so that he can also participate with mining (as it needs already the mining barge skill). Then it would really be a capital mining ship and not only sort of a better carrier.
DPSLogistics Mike	Posted - 2007.08.10 11:08:00 - [292] Can you build things other than compressed ore in the production slots? Frigates? Ammo?
NeelixTheTrader	Posted - 2007.08.10 13:16:00 - [293] Thank you CCP, u rule =) can i just point out that this ore capital is simply briliant idea and carefuly selected things it can do too!!! On the other hand im concrn why isnt there smaller version of it with 1/4 capability without clone vat of one ment for outlow sec, i know i know point is to emerge to .0 eventualy but in this matter its civil ship, i mean if covetor and hulk as ore mininig ships can go both highsec and lower sec systems why not some smaller version of ore capital ship for highsec(make us happy and us to feel more than outsiders in trainnig, u have comand ships for combat squads, we would only love to have our "mining command ship" :P), sure we can haule with transporters and industrials but why so, both are ment for transport of goods, ore too why not but also why not giving us proper "mining central command" highsec ship, somethin that will give us feeling of proffesional mining group. well i really would like one "central command mining ship" designed for highsec purpouses, prim compresion of ore (still only 1/4 of capacity than the "bigger brother", also tractor beams would be also neat and only 1 gang module fit ability, it would merge current mining foremans in "combat" ship to be lazy rig operator while talking cheap and storing ore for the mining squad in corporation ore extraction operation, logicly low sec one is far more supreme, duo to clone vats and huge bays for ships etc etc. well just a thought anyways doesnt mean its worth your time to read it but sure would like to hear opinion please.
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.10 13:32:00 - [294] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Chruker http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/new_rorqual.php That is a really nice summary, thanks! There is a more updated version internally which should go out to sisi soon(tm). As you can see if you multiply your available storage by the compression rate and divide that by the mining rate per minute of four hulks you get figures between 1.5-6 hours of the top of my head (will update once I get to work) depending on your storage amount and ore being mined. There is also a 'hidden' capacity currently in the assemblylines, assuming you have your cargohold without GSC's then the maximum job volume is is 60,000m3 (jobs are based around a maximum of 20,000m3 per run for some ores), you can currently install 10 jobs queued and exit industry mode where they pause. There is no guarantees that will make it into the patch but personally I am OK with it currently. Oh and yes its getting a new model for those that asked and its really awesome! I'll update this and my previous posts when i get into work and answer some of the other questions as well, but as ever the usual disclaimer applies that things stated may change. Well I really like the "Hidden" capacity. I think this works great since it can only be used for ores. As I said before I think 4 hours is the "Sweet Spot" rather than 2. Questions : Does the use of the Core Tap module show up on the map ? Can the Core Tap be used inside a POS --- PLEASE say no. Risk vs Reward is important. We can fit as many Gang Mods as we want on this one, right ? Overall : GREAT Job. Its really evolved from the original incarnation we saw and a lot of that is because of our feedback. Its good to see that your taking our reactions and thoughts into account. Its great to see such a good example of how player feedback is working.
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.10 13:43:00 - [295] Quote: If we have compressed ore at a friendly POS, will we be able to throw all of it into the refinery in it's compressed state or will we only be able to refine it at a station/outpost refinery. Part of this question I guess is will we get any penalty for doing so? Compared to the normal ore size? I hope this is the case. However honestly I like the balance that Refinery POS's are at right now. Quote: Fueling Many people have asked, but will the option to maybe use something other then topes (maybe heavy water?) to move the ship be considered? Also maybe the question about a 'neutral drive' where any isotope of any race can be used to jump the thing? The ORE ships have allways been Gallente. And coming from a region with no Gallente ICE I understand your pain, but the "Fluff" should probably be adhered to in somthing like this. Although if they changed the background somewhat then I wouldnt have a problem. Quote: Industrial Capital skill suggestion If the ship requires stront to use the industrial core, are their any plans or maybe could you guys include a skill that will help reduce that stront time usage down even further? The cycle time on this is a major point to almost everyone posting. Maybe a skill to decrease the length of the time the ship is immobile will address the issue as people could at least effect it a tiny bit? Its already only 5 mins isnt it ? Thats plenty of time. I still feel using this thing should constitute a risk. I think that 5 mins is well and truly the "Sweet Spot" for the Industrial Core Tap.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.08.10 13:53:00 - [296] Originally by: Montaire Originally by: Roemy Schneider Originally by: CCP Chronotis will the ship maint array be able to fit more than only 2 hulks? 4 would be nice for a good mining op! The volumes of the mining barges and exhumers have been reduced by 50,000m3 and provisionally we are looking at 3-4 hulks worth of ship maintenance bay. aaaa crud.... i was hoping for some giant-secures-in-indy-in-carrier-nerf compensation (which still has BoB's titan-bridging written all over it </tinfoil>) You know the more I think about it the more I think this is going to kill Indy's for mining ops. Your basicly going to have your 5 guys mining, and then your Roqual tractoring cans, compressing ore. Then when its full it jumps out and drops off at station and jumps back in. Seems like it will make mining within 1 Cyno Jump of a station completely hauler-less. The answer to "How is this any good" may be that you are intended to jump it in and out constantly to whever your refining your minerals. well... your coice... i believe i'll still haul the ore with a regular itty V - just that it'll be compressed now. in case of bistot, i'll haul 20x more per run, which i'm going to love in gravimetric sites. however, instead of refining this stuff at my landlords' place, i might move that stuff directly to a "perfect" empire station: 1 lump of c-bistot is 800m¦ 48 lumps fit in an iteron V (5x expander II, 3x cargo rig I) 2 iterons fit in this maintenance bay (at this point) 13 more lumps (with a bit of GSC help) in corp hangar and roughly another 30-40 in cargo holds. ~140 lumps is 140,000 bistot is ~900mil isk 10-15mil isk in jump fuel or 90-180mil isk as refining "tax"? -> might aswell lift the ugly (intensive) refining array penalties - putting the gist back into logistics
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.10 14:16:00 - [297] Originally by: Roemy Schneider You know the more I think about it the more I think this is going to kill Indy's for mining ops. Your basicly going to have your 5 guys mining, and then your Roqual tractoring cans, compressing ore. Then when its full it jumps out and drops off at station and jumps back in. Seems like it will make mining within 1 Cyno Jump of a station completely hauler-less. The answer to "How is this any good" may be that you are intended to jump it in and out constantly to whever your refining your minerals. well... your coice... i believe i'll still haul the ore with a regular itty V - just that it'll be compressed now. in case of bistot, i'll haul 20x more per run, which i'm going to love in gravimetric sites. however, instead of refining this stuff at my landlords' place, i might move that stuff directly to a "perfect" empire station: 1 lump of c-bistot is 800m¦ 48 lumps fit in an iteron V (5x expander II, 3x cargo rig I) 2 iterons fit in this maintenance bay (at this point) 13 more lumps (with a bit of GSC help) in corp hangar and roughly another 30-40 in cargo holds. ~140 lumps is 140,000 bistot is ~900mil isk 10-15mil isk in jump fuel or 90-180mil isk as refining "tax"? -> might aswell lift the ugly (intensive) refining array penalties I'd never be for removing the Intensive Refining Penalties. Getting decent refines from a station requires a 30 billion isk investment. In addition the idea of revenue via refining taxes is the foundation for my investments. I would essentially be in favor of flatly not allowing this to bypass that system. That system is the bedrock foundation for the financial system in 0.0 Without some way to recoup expenses why put down the investments ?
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.08.10 16:17:00 - [298] exactly i was just demonstrating the effect of ore compression + more jump'able indy capacity. suddenly 1m¦ compressed "unnamed" bistot is worth >8k isk - which is more than the most expensive raw materials. arkonor and mercoxit even more so. - putting the gist back into logistics
Kera Va'Tauri	Posted - 2007.08.10 17:31:00 - [299] I would still like to vote for a mid slot module that assists Barges in some way if its not too late. I would love to see a major incentive to risk one of these bad boys at a belt, and I think some form of barge boosting mod would do just that.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.10 19:16:00 - [300] OK, some very final updates: Compression and Capacity Capacity Cargohold = 20,000m3 Corp Hanger = 10,000m3 Ship Maintenance Bay = 800,000m3 (restricted to industrials, mining barges, transports and exhumers) 'Assemblyline capacity' = maximum of around 600,000m3 (10 installed jobs not delivered) Compression Rates ~20:1 for high end ores ~15:1 for 'medium' ores ~10:1 for low end ores ~8:1 for ice so for a quick capacity calculation, multiply your total space by the compression rate. It averages out to between 2.6-6.4 hours of mining for 4 hulks. Clone Bay A lot of discussion around this, yes it is a powerful ability, and yes it is currently a one way trip, so you must factor in the clone cost to your profits bearing in mind that installing a jump clone on a ship is always without implants (new jump clone) unless you specifically plug them in after jumping to the ship. We changed the cloning facility operation skill to add 15% max number of clones per level. In the case of the Rorqual, this means between 6-10 clones depending on your skill level. It also significantly boosts the max clones of the other moms and titans which is needed. Additional Bonus We added a 20% to drone damage and hitpoints per level in addition to the current bonuses. This enhances the rather low defences of the Rorqual enough to make it more comfortable at defending in some scenarios. Quote: Capital Industrial Ships skill bonuses: -5% reduction in fuel consumption for industrial cores per level 5% bonus to bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level when in deployed mode 50% bonus to the range of Capital Shield Transporters per level. 20% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level. 99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay 99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules 99% reduction in CPU need for Industrial Reconfiguration modules 99% reduction in CPU need for Tractor Beams Cost This has changed a fair bit since the blog was first released and is now higher than first conceived. I estimate from market prices of capital components in lonetrek that it will cost around 1.85 billion. The compression blueprints are designed not to be researched and have no wastage factor. They are also cheap, between 250k - 1.25mill as they are a requirement of the ship to function. However, I would point out that with the mining foreman bonus for laser optimization, which is effectively a forth hulk for every three in gang (and who said your trained miner would go to waste flying it!), that even the high initial cost is fairly cheap when considering the time to break even with the additional bonuses and time bonuses through ease of logistics. My personal opinion is this ship very much empowers the nomad operations as I call them whilst serving different purposes for different groups of people. More answers Does the use of the Core Tap module show up on the map ? the only things that show on the map are the same things that show now, average number of people in space and any active cynosural fields. The industrial core activation will not broadcast anything other than to those in same grid as your ship who get to watch it do the 'optimus prime' and transform into its platform configuration.


CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.10 19:16:00 - [301] If we have compressed ore at a friendly POS, will we be able to throw all of it into the refinery in it's compressed state or will we only be able to refine it at a station/outpost refinery? Compressed ore is a play upon volumes only. Refine rates are not affected so what original ores you put in to compress are equal to the compressed ore produced in terms of mineral value. Yes, compressed ore can be refined as other ores and can be traded on the market (will be interested to see how the secondary market develops for those) Fueling Many people have asked, but will the option to maybe use something other then topes (maybe heavy water?) to move the ship be considered? Also maybe the question about a 'neutral drive' where any isotope of any race can be used to jump the thing? Jump drives only work with isotopes, in this case Oxygen Isotopes, as the jump drive design is borrowed from the Gallente. The interesting thing about the economy is make a demend for something and it will soon be filled when it comes to harvested resources. Industrial Capital skill suggestion If the ship requires stront to use the industrial core, are their any plans or maybe could you guys include a skill that will help reduce that stront time usage down even further The Industrial Core has a duration of 5 minutes and a base fuel consumption of 200 strontium modified by the Industrial Reconfiguration skill (-20 stront per lvl) and -5% per level of capital industrial ships skill so with maximum skills reduces this to 80 stront per 5 minutes. Usual Disclaimer Anything stated here may change before release.

D Gelalder Gallente Apraxia	Posted - 2007.08.10 19:31:00 - [302] Regarding the BPO's that are needed for the compressing of ores. Is it possible to use those in a outpost or POS equipment or is that function specific to the rorqual? Someone else asked before, is it possible to use the production lines for anything else besides compressing ore?

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.10 19:33:00 - [303] Originally by: D Gelalder Regarding the BPO's that are needed for the compressing of ores. Is it possible to use those in a outpost or POS equipment or is that function specific to the rorqual? specific to the Rorqual only. Quote: Someone else asked before, is it possible to use the production lines for anything else besides compressing ore? no.

D Gelalder Gallente Apraxia	Posted - 2007.08.10 19:37:00 - [304] Edited by: D Gelalder on 10/08/2007 19:42:37 thank you :) edit: Just reread it again, does this mean the ship has an actual animation for the deployment? Or just 2 different models that switch when the mode is activated/deactivated? Quote: same grid as your ship who get to watch it do the 'optimus prime' and transform into its platform configuration.
Marie Mahro Conflagration Mining	Posted - 2007.08.10 20:33:00 - [305] As much as the skill requirements are going to hurt, I find the idea of flying a transformer apealing How many drones can this Capital ship use? I'm guessing not 15, but maybe 10? Good work CCP with your negociations, you really have taken onborad the publics views. One last question, cargo hold is only 20,000m3, thats 7,500 smaller than a full can?
Clorthos Gallente Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.08.10 20:36:00 - [306] with the ability to clone jump 5 people into the ship but not carry enough ships to mine with makes the clone bay self defeting for full use. Please add enought ship maint bay to carry 5 hulks/industrial mix 290k per ship is the avg. Thanks
Klorthos	Posted - 2007.08.10 20:37:00 - [307] Originally by: Marie Mahro As much as the skill requirements are going to hurt, I find the idea of flying a transformer apealing How many drones can this Capital ship use? I'm guessing not 15, but maybe 10? Good work CCP with your negociations, you really have taken onborad the publics views. One last question, cargo hold is only 20,000m3, thats 7,500 smaller than a full can? it has 3 low slots for cargo mods or whatever you need to put in there. It is a shield tank ship btw.
Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.10 20:42:00 - [308] Originally by: CCP Chronotis OK, some more final updates: Compression and Capacity Capacity Cargohold = 20,000m3 Corp Hanger = 10,000m3 Ship Maintenance Bay = 800,000m3 (restricted to industrials, mining barges, transports and exhumers) 'Assemblyline capacity' = maximum of around 600,000m3 (10 installed jobs not delivered) Compression Rates 1. Any possibility you can make the cargohold 30km3? This will provide room for one full jetcan of ore and the fuel for the industrial core. 20km3 means you can only partially empty a jetcan before you start the assembly line. Either that, or make the corp hangar large enough for a full jetcan and allow us to compress the ore there. 2. Any possibility of changing the fuel for the industrial core from strontium to heavy water? ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.10 20:44:00 - [309] Does this mean the ship has an actual animation for the deployment? yes How many drones can this Capital ship use? 5 Any possibility you can make the cargohold 30km3? no, with expanders and cargohold optimization rigs you get upto 63,646m3 iirc + the 30% with GSC's (82,546m3) iirc when used. Anything more than that would be too much. Any possibility of changing the fuel for the industrial core from strontium to heavy water? not currently, we are happy with its fuel use as is.

Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.08.10 21:01:00 - [310] So can it mine, and if so how much? Or is it just an ore mushing machine?
Elistan Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.10 21:09:00 - [311] Do The compression Jobs have to be installed by the pilot of the ship. Or if the materials are loaded can the jobs be started by someone else in the gang? Elistan
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.08.10 21:09:00 - [312] alright... my regular bistot calcs.... type in mining blex/belt or simply at a POS (3 cargo expander II, 3 cargo rigs I -> 63,045.50 m¦) and just because it'll be worth it, i'll swap one rig for a t2(!) why? to get me over 64,000 m¦ which allows 4-run-compression-jobs instead of 3-runs. so... that's 40 lumps of compressed bistot "on hold" (640,000m¦ of bistot) empire-tours replacing cargo expander with cap power relays - med slots full of cap rechargers -> fully recharged after roughly four minutes still cargo rigged -> 31,740m¦ a gaint secure has room for 4 lumps of compressed bistot and there will still be enough room for spare fuel -> 10 giants -> 40 lumps (another 640,000m¦ bistot) similar approach with the corp hangar -> 13 lumps (208,000m¦ bistot) ship maintenance bay: 2 iteron V + 1 hoarder -> 48+48+25 lumps (1,936,000m¦ bistot) congratulations, you just moved bistot to empire that will explode back into 3,424,000 m¦ pure bistot (~1.47bil isk - if all of that was "unnamed" bistot) so... why should i use my landlords' refinery station again...? (especially with 20% refining tax) - putting the gist back into logistics
DeltaH NOBODY Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.10 21:18:00 - [313] Originally by: Roemy Schneider so... why should i use my landlords' refinery station again...? (especially with 20% refining tax) You shouldn't. Things change in patches, even for outpost owners.
Zigg Omelo eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.08.10 21:21:00 - [314] Will it feature the ability to refit the ships like a carrier!
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.08.10 21:23:00 - [315] well... plunge of the high-ores (and mienrals) then? 'cause it does remind me a liiiiil bit of drone alloys back then - putting the gist back into logistics
DeltaH NOBODY Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.10 21:29:00 - [316] Originally by: Roemy Schneider well... plunge of the high-ores (and mienrals) then? 'cause it does remind me a liiiiil bit of drone alloys back then Moving 3,424,000m3 of bistot to empire doesn't change anything except for where the ore gets refined. 3,424,000m3 of Bistot refines down to an actual ~8000m3 of minerals, something a single hauler or carrier can currently move to empire. And the 20% refine tax imposed by the outpost owner doesn't drop into a black hole, those minerals still entered the market like all other minerals.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.10 21:29:00 - [317] last answers for today; So can it mine, and if so how much? as much as 5 mining drones can mine by itself however in a gang with good skills, you get the gang mining bonus so even if it isn't mining directly itself, it still is contributing. Also with the micro management needed, I think any pilot will have their hands full anyway if they are out on a mining op. Do The compression Jobs have to be installed by the pilot of the ship. yes, pilot only. Will it feature the ability to refit the ships like a carrier! That comes with having a ship maintenance bay. When your in proximity to the capital ship, drag the modules from your overview to your hold for eg. to unload them and vice versa to equip other modules.

Mona X Caldari C0VEN	Posted - 2007.08.10 23:13:00 - [318] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Do The compression Jobs have to be installed by the pilot of the ship. yes, pilot only. Compression jobs are normal manufacturing jobs, or a new category? A mean, do I (my alt) have to skill mass production and advanced mass production?
Darpz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.11 00:12:00 - [319] Originally by: DeltaH Originally by: Roemy Schneider well... plunge of the high-ores (and mienrals) then? 'cause it does remind me a liiiiil bit of drone alloys back then Moving 3,424,000m3 of bistot to empire doesn't change anything except for where the ore gets refined. 3,424,000m3 of Bistot refines down to an actual ~8000m3 of minerals, something a single hauler or carrier can currently move to empire. And the 20% refine tax imposed by the outpost owner doesn't drop into a black hole, those minerals still entered the market like all other minerals. I think the real question is who the hell charges 20% for refineing? but I guess they won't be after the patch, since if I was in that outpost I would just put buyorders up at 10% cheaper than the worth of the ore without tax and compress the ore and jump it to empire to make a profit
Tonto Auri	Posted - 2007.08.11 00:33:00 - [320] Can You please explain, why You invent "ore compression" instead of refining it to minerals in place? What's wrong with refining? Right now I see little or no use for this ship. It may be useful in controlled regions as temporary base 2-3 jumps away from POS, but nothing more. Too many restrictions and "but"s in design, which means - it badly designed. -- Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig>
Drendid'Toout	Posted - 2007.08.11 00:43:00 - [321] - Can the pilot access to the cargohold of the ships stored in the ship maintenance bay while in the space? (4 or 5 hours in deployed mode to get the 5% bonus will spend some m3 in strontium) - maximun jump range? - Can it online only 1 Gang Link module or 3 at the same time?
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.11 03:14:00 - [322] Originally by: Tonto Auri Can You please explain, why You invent "ore compression" instead of refining it to minerals in place? What's wrong with refining? Right now I see little or no use for this ship. It may be useful in controlled regions as temporary base 2-3 jumps away from POS, but nothing more. Too many restrictions and "but"s in design, which means - it badly designed. Stations are for refining. You can do it in a POS, but its much less efficient. There has to be a reason to build these 30 billion isk outposts. Its an investment on an alliance level. One way to get returns on that investment is via station refining tax. Untill they come up with new revenue streams, or more efficient ways to tax on an alliance level, or even base on what space you are in, they need to keep refining in stations.
paracidic Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.08.11 05:22:00 - [323] OK, Now it is tomorrow and time for some more answers please. 1)All I saw was an OOG site that had some skill listings,(an the link was broken) So what skills are actually prerequiste for the Industrial Reconfiguration Skill? That OOG link mentioned advanced mass production at 4. Is this accurate? 2) Does Jump Calibration increase jump range as it does with other capitals? (presumably) 3) Does Jump Drive Operation reduce the amount of fuel required as per other carriers? 4) What does the industrial Reconfiguration Skill give you in terms of a skill bonus (if anything)? IE a 5 percent increase to the compression time or an increase to the volume of the undelivered storage comes to mind. If these questions have been answered I am sorry please paste the link to the answers. *********************************************** How could they know what we are going to do? We have no idea what we are going to do.
Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.08.11 06:08:00 - [324] Only 5 drones? Why not any strip miners? Or big miners or what ever ? So it is only an ore compression ship So it serves little to no use as a solo mining tool So the corps get everything and one man armies like me get nothing, yet again.
Nostromar Open Concepts	Posted - 2007.08.11 06:26:00 - [325] Originally by: Max Tesla Only 5 drones? So the corps get everything and one man armies like me get nothing, yet again. Its a capital ship....you'd need at least one other person as a cyno generator anyway.
LoxyRider Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.11 07:11:00 - [326] You can get a first look at the artwork for the new capital industrial ship in this week's episode of Eve Tv (ep7). http://eve-online.tv/
Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.08.11 08:57:00 - [327] Originally by: Nostromar Originally by: Max Tesla Only 5 drones? So the corps get everything and one man armies like me get nothing, yet again. Its a capital ship....you'd need at least one other person as a cyno generator anyway. That is ridiculous, you should be able to mine with the ship and since you can dock you can mine in 1 system and when you feel like moving you can always send a hello to a friend or you can have an alt to create a jump point etc There are people that play eve that like to play alone and donÆt want to be in some corp
Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.11 09:57:00 - [328] Originally by: LoxyRider You can get a first look at the artwork for the new capital industrial ship in this week's episode of Eve Tv (ep7). http://eve-online.tv/ Hmm...we need to pay to watch EVE TV. Lame. Any chance of getting screencaps for us? :) ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!
Helison Gallente Times of Ancar Pure.	Posted - 2007.08.11 12:00:00 - [329] Originally by: Max Tesla Originally by: Nostromar Originally by: Max Tesla Only 5 drones? So the corps get everything and one man armies like me get nothing, yet again. Its a capital ship....you'd need at least one other person as a cyno generator anyway. That is ridiculous, you should be able to mine with the ship and since you can dock you can mine in 1 system and when you feel like moving you can always send a hello to a friend or you can have an alt to create a jump point etc There are people that play eve that like to play alone and don’t want to be in some corp Yeah, CCP designed this ship only for mining ops for small gangs (4-8ppl) and even there you will face several problems as small gangs will NOT have the ability to defend the Rorqual if a medium force of enemies shows up. It will work for large mining ops (specially the gang bonus), but you will have to use other ways of transporting the ore (carriers, indys, freighter...). It will not work at all for solo mining and very bad for gangs below 4 persons. But the "best" way of using a Rorqual will be to use it for tranporting stuff. You have more than the double capacity than a normal carrier and you don¦t have to have all the special skills.
Imhothar Xarodit Minmatar Wolverine Solutions Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.11 12:08:00 - [330] Originally by: paracidic Edited by: paracidic on 11/08/2007 05:28:28 1)All I saw was an OOG site that had some skill listings,(an the link was broken) So what skills are actually prerequiste for the Industrial Reconfiguration Skill? That OOG link mentioned advanced mass production at 4. Is this accurate? The links aren't broken, they are for the in-game browser. This should answer all questions in your post.
Emanuelle Swedenborg	Posted - 2007.08.11 12:24:00 - [331] I have no clue as to how far a capital can jump at a time. But range, in my head at least, will be a huge factor when calculating if this ship is worth it. Since it's practically a hauler, this must be reflected in the range it can jump, right? With a ship that has no real way of defending itself it should at least be able to get to it's target without numerous jumps. (If the answer here is; "The ship is intended to have a huge escort so people join together to use it"... Think again. I'm in a small group, I don't want a big group. Make it useable anyway, pls.) I'm sort of a Bimbo so I don't really understand all the angels to this ship and it's use. But I would hate to see it end up as a toy for big 0.0 Alliances. At the moment it seems EvE is won and lost thru the destruction of assets rather then thru the accumulation of such. This ship could be an alternative way for smaller corps to gain ground and build economical strength. As opposed to that endless pewpew I'm sick of hearing about CCP talks alot about "setting goals for players/corps/factions, on different levels", for me, that means the above stated. Not faction warfare or huge corp-ops. I like when people PvP because then they consume what I sell, and that's the fun with EvE for me. Production. Great that CCP gives industry some attention, just don't forget the smaller things while you're at it
Sral TBear letter of marque Plunder-Bears	Posted - 2007.08.11 13:03:00 - [332] alow it in empire if.. roid fields are not generic anymore and you have to find them by exploration Then werry few m and m`s will be able to use it, and the few there is will be easy to spot and bann But again...its a capital ship so maby it should stay in low sec.... dunno....just cool something like this finaly comes :) skills needed should atleast be Barge 5 Exumners 5 Strip miners 5 mining drones 5 cap ship 4 mining cap ship 4 Should be as skill intensive as a dread or carrier.... Your signature image exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.08.11 16:59:00 - [333] Originally by: paracidic OK, Now it is tomorrow and time for some more answers please. 1)All I saw was an OOG site that had some skill listings,(an the link was broken) So what skills are actually prerequiste for the Industrial Reconfiguration Skill? That OOG link mentioned advanced mass production at 4. Is this accurate? 2) Does Jump Calibration increase jump range as it does with other capitals? (presumably) 3) Does Jump Drive Operation reduce the capacitor requirements by 5 percent per level? 4) What does the industrial Reconfiguration Skill give you in terms of a skill bonus (if anything)? IE a 5 percent increase to the compression time or an increase to the volume of the undelivered storage comes to mind. 5) What does the Capital Industrial Ship skill give you as a skill bonus per level trained (if anything)? Shorter compression duration or resistance to warp scrambling comes to mind. perhaps even a jump fuel reduction. If these questions have been answered I am sorry please paste the link to the answers. freighters may be exceptional capitals, but all others will follow the same rules as the existing (non-super) ones: 0.4 access, jumping, etc - all "capital" skills apply the ship skills themselves don't do anything but therefore deliver ship-boni that differ from ship to ship. in this case Quote: -5% reduction in fuel consumption for industrial cores per level [[stronz]] 5% bonus to bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level when in deployed mode 50% bonus to the range of Capital Shield Transporters per level. 20% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level. humm sry, but i haven't had a closer look at the "siege" module yet - putting the gist back into logistics
Xthril Ranger hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.11 20:37:00 - [334] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Clone Bay A lot of discussion around this, yes it is a powerful ability, and yes it is currently a one way trip, so you must factor in the clone cost to your profits bearing in mind that installing a jump clone on a ship is always without implants (new jump clone) unless you specifically plug them in after jumping to the ship. We changed the cloning facility operation skill to add 15% max number of clones per level. In the case of the Rorqual, this means between 6-10 clones depending on your skill level. It also significantly boosts the max clones of the other moms and titans which is needed. Are you saying that ms clone facility got a basic capacity at 35 or more? That is the round number where 15% is more than the current 5/level. I always thought it was 0 + skill since the the module and the ship doesnt mention any numbers, only the skill. . you'll never jump alone

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.11 22:06:00 - [335] Originally by: Xthril Ranger Are you saying that ms clone facility got a basic capacity at 35 or more? That is the round number where 15% is more than the current 5/level. I always thought it was 0 + skill since the the module and the ship doesnt mention any numbers, only the skill. to clarify the effect is small on motherships but much larger on titans. Motherships Lvl 1: 40 Lvl 2: 45 Lvl 3: 50 Lvl 4: 56 Lvl 5: 61 Titans Lvl 1: 86 Lvl 2: 97 Lvl 3: 108 Lvl 4: 120 Lvl 5: 131

Lain Asahina	Posted - 2007.08.11 23:16:00 - [336] http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=492 After reading the latest blog, i'm convinced that this new mining capital ship should never be implemented. - The ship is overly complex to do simple things and uses tons of fuel to use compression. Do you seriously think miners will mine veldspar in 0.0 space? - The ship is only designed for the rich players with multiple accounts (aka "legalized" macro-mining). - Small mineral importers to 0.0 space who use compression (passive targetter makers, etc..) are screwed. Miners can refine to 100% while those with scrapmetal processing V can only achieve 80% refine maximum. - There are no cruiser/battleship size class mineral compression ships. - There is no increase in cargo space for any industrial to move more minerals (trit and pyerite are huge burdens to haul uncompressed). - Although the new jump bridges are nice, they aren't economically feasible to haul large loads of low-end minerals. Maintaining POS', liquid ozone and no profit margin in low-ends will only increase mineral costs dramatically. I like how CCP innovates in this game, but I wonder if you guys really understand how people play the game.
oingo Gallente 23rd Armor Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.11 23:28:00 - [337] I think this ship really needs the abilty to pull up next to a rock, right click and hit scoop to cargo hold!!!!
PauZotoh Zhaan Teylas Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.12 01:23:00 - [338] I was hoping for something better, what we get is ship for big alliances/big mining ops. Becouse you will need atleast 10 hulks to get real bonus from this ship (sacrafising hulk to use this ship). So instead of 11 hulks you have 10 hulks. 5% bonus to mining gang module isnt much. THis ship will sit at POS 99% of time. then warping to belt scooping ore and warping back. I dunno I dont like who idea of that ship.
Oshaga Nanir Amarr Oberon Incorporated	Posted - 2007.08.12 01:47:00 - [339] I was hoping it would take the role as gang leader from the Command ships or similiar. But why should I train all the processing skills to level 4 on my PvP/Leadership character when I have so much more I can train instead. I was hoping that the assemblylines would be available to the miners in my gang aswell(cause thoose will have the processing skills at lvl 4 already). At the moment I see no reason to train for this, the compression isn't that fantastic, perhaps increase the gang mining bonus to make it a must for large mining operations. At least I'm not intrested in it yet. --- Happy hauling in 0.0, out.
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.08.12 01:52:00 - [340] You seem to be speedily progressing through the testing and balancing of this ship. If your team keeps this up, Chronotis, can you please say "sometime next month"?
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.12 03:47:00 - [341] I essentially think the ship is near-perfect now. All the stats seem balanced and it seems to bring a lot to the party mining wise.
Clorthos Gallente Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.08.12 04:53:00 - [342] up the ship maint bay to allow more than 3 people to CJ to ship and pull out thier hulks >.< needs 1.25 to 1.5 mil m3 maint bay to work imo.
paracidic Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.08.12 04:54:00 - [343] Originally by: Imhothar Xarodit Originally by: paracidic Edited by: paracidic on 11/08/2007 05:28:28 1)All I saw was an OOG site that had some skill listings,(an the link was broken) So what skills are actually prerequiste for the Industrial Reconfiguration Skill? That OOG link mentioned advanced mass production at 4. Is this accurate? The links aren't broken, they are for the in-game browser. This should answer all questions in your post. Please provide the links you are talking about becuase the links I saw provided none of the answers to the questions I have asked. *********************************************** How could they know what we are going to do? We have no idea what we are going to do.
Malcore Trisus Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.12 06:24:00 - [344] Originally by: CCP Chronotis In the future, it is our hope to make gang bonuses only apply when the assigned gang booster is in the same grid. Command ships should really be in the 'arena' as well. Youre nerfing leadership?
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.12 06:51:00 - [345] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Xthril Ranger Are you saying that ms clone facility got a basic capacity at 35 or more? That is the round number where 15% is more than the current 5/level. I always thought it was 0 + skill since the the module and the ship doesnt mention any numbers, only the skill. to clarify the effect is small on motherships but much larger on titans. Motherships Lvl 1: 40 Lvl 2: 45 Lvl 3: 50 Lvl 4: 56 Lvl 5: 61 Titans Lvl 1: 86 Lvl 2: 97 Lvl 3: 108 Lvl 4: 120 Lvl 5: 131 Honestly why limit it by numbers? Surely the logistics of actually having enough ships for the pilots at the destination is more important, and the jump clone timers prevent abuse. Why not just allowing everyone in an alliance to jump clone to an active clone bay on a Titan/MS/Ore ship?
Friedrich IX Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.08.12 08:15:00 - [346] How many Gang Link modules will this ship be able to use? --- Hadean Drive Yards
Tonto Auri	Posted - 2007.08.12 10:53:00 - [347] Originally by: Montaire Stations are for refining. You can do it in a POS, but its much less efficient. There has to be a reason to build these 30 billion isk outposts. Its an investment on an alliance level. One way to get returns on that investment is via station refining tax. Untill they come up with new revenue streams, or more efficient ways to tax on an alliance level, or even base on what space you are in, they need to keep refining in stations. Your words is that this ship designed to operate on alliance level too? I see that it have no real use and many players have the same thoughts. Real gang to use it should have (in addition to cyno ship) at least one carrier with additional miners, indy's and some BS/CS support to defend and transport all that stuff. So You need about 15-20 men just to mine... How many corps can afford such "mining operation"? It's economically stupid. My thout still the same - it's designed in clean mind and should never appear in real world. It can be outperformed by 5 ppl smart classic gang which can mine with lesser or no fanfares. At least remove all that restrictions to industry only and such, give it a bit more use and it probably can have life in space. -- Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig>
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.08.12 10:55:00 - [348] Sorry to say so, but the limiting of ore compression to that new ship is ... idiotic. It makes no sense at all. Neither in-game (if you have the technology for a ship, then certainly stations should be able to use this technology also) nor out-of-game (if you want to make logistics a bit easier, then make it easier for a broad range of people and not only for those big alliances only). Ore compression could have been the new excitement for Eve miners. Why not make ore compression lossy? With maybe at 5-15% loss skilldependant! Then the miners would be happy also and the empire people wouldn't compress ore without need because it would hurt their profits. Furthermore I think we need not ore compression but MINERAL compression! Especially that stupid veldspar and maybe pyerite.
Tonto Auri	Posted - 2007.08.12 11:19:00 - [349] Edited by: Tonto Auri on 12/08/2007 11:19:38 Originally by: Gnulpie Sorry to say so, but the limiting of ore compression to that new ship is ... idiotic. When it takes the BPO to compress, it will be also possible in stations and probably assembly arrays in POS. (Or it should be) EDIT: Sorry O/Q removed. -- Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig>
Horzunaman	Posted - 2007.08.12 11:21:00 - [350] Originally by: Tonto Auri Edited by: Tonto Auri on 12/08/2007 11:19:38 Originally by: Gnulpie Sorry to say so, but the limiting of ore compression to that new ship is ... idiotic. When it takes the BPO to compress, it will be also possible in stations and probably assembly arrays in POS. (Or it should be) EDIT: Sorry O/Q removed. It was confirmed that those BPOs are only for the ORE Capital and won't be usable in stations or POS.
Tonto Auri	Posted - 2007.08.12 11:41:00 - [351] Originally by: Horzunaman It was confirmed that those BPOs are only for the ORE Capital and won't be usable in stations or POS. Aren't You think that there's way too many restrictions around this ship? -- Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig>
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.08.12 12:32:00 - [352] I've just caught up with the thread and I'm impressed with the level of answers, Chronitis. I just have a few more questions: 1) Is mineral compression by building modules like passive targetters going to be nerfed when this new "ore compression" comes in? Or is this a completely different thing that has no bearing on it? 2) Can compressed ore be removed from the bay and refined by someone else in a station? (This may have been answered but I didn't see the answer) Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.12 14:12:00 - [353] Originally by: Horzunaman Originally by: Tonto Auri Edited by: Tonto Auri on 12/08/2007 11:19:38 Originally by: Gnulpie Sorry to say so, but the limiting of ore compression to that new ship is ... idiotic. When it takes the BPO to compress, it will be also possible in stations and probably assembly arrays in POS. (Or it should be) EDIT: Sorry O/Q removed. It was confirmed that those BPOs are only for the ORE Capital and won't be usable in stations or POS. See that's freaking lame. This ship is being misdesigned - it's not a mining ship, it's a logistics ship or at least that's what people want in a non-combat capital. They want clone vat bays to actually be worth using. They want a ship which can jump battleships 2-3 at a time to the front lines. All this stuff with mining and ore compression is secondary and makes no sense to be limited to this ship only.
Amateratsu Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.12 14:43:00 - [354] First of all i'd like to thank the devs and Chrontis for taking our feedback seriously and striving to get this ship balanced and useful. Exellent Job The compression ratio's and cargo capacities are now spot on imo, however the ships ability to defend itself is still greatly lacking. When a mining op fielded by this ship encounters hostiles, (especially when operating in hostile territory) the miners and barges will be able to flee to a safespot or pos leaving the cap ship stuck in the belt in its deployed mode. Any hostile gang with any inteligence is going to target and destroy the capships 5 drones in a matter of seconds (even with double the HP and DPS) 5 regular combat drones are not going to last more than 30 seconds. The attackers will then have all the time they need to break the ships tank and destroy it, and there will be absolutely nothing the pilot can do to prevent it or escape. I see this ship only being used at POS's to compress ore and as an industrial hauler. No player with any inteligence is going to put a 2 billion isk ship that can't adequately defend itself into the field in a locked down position just begging to be attacked. If giving this ship fighter drones is not an option, then it at least needs to be able to deploy 10 - 15 regular drones (like other capital ships) with a drone bay capable of holding a reserve of at least 30 more to replace losses. At least then it will be able to put up a decent fight. Otherwise it will require a gang of combat ships to defend it and the miners which defeats the Nomad operations that this ship is intended for.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.08.12 14:49:00 - [355] Thanks for all the detailed info. Only one question. Can we please get an approximate ETA? Ie, a week, month, few months etc? Thanks in advance, love the look of this baby and it might actually tempt me to leave the safety of my concord friends. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Drendid'Toout	Posted - 2007.08.12 15:25:00 - [356] let's get first this small one and then we can start crying for a bigger one... may be a titan version for carebears
Virtuozzo IVC Consortium INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.08.12 15:33:00 - [357] New Devblog feedback .. reading that would be recommended before continuing here. Virtuozzo Last words of a Caldari general: "Pull the Ravens back! Full retreat! they've got frigates!" snip Inappropriate. -Elmo Pug
0mega GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.12 16:50:00 - [358] Edited by: 0mega on 12/08/2007 16:50:02 Originally by: James Duar Why not just allowing everyone in an alliance to jump clone to an active clone bay on a Titan/MS/Ore ship? Seconded. Instead of the current method of: 1. Install clone in advance 2. Jump when active 3. Cant jump back How about this: 1. Capital pilot can invite anyone in gang to clonejump to him when the module is active 2. If the character does not have a current clone in that ship, a new one is created for a 100,000isk charge. 3. When the jump clone timer expires the pilot can jump back to another jump clone by moving within 5km of the capital. This stores their clone back inside the vessel, including implants.
Drendid'Toout	Posted - 2007.08.12 17:25:00 - [359] Edited by: Drendid''Toout on 12/08/2007 17:26:17 Originally by: Virtuozzo New Devblog feedback .. reading that would be recommended before continuing here. first we cant put industrials with gsc inside a carrier, now this nerf to the ore transpor between empire and 0.0. Why are the carebear side of the game being so heavily nerfed? Please give to the ORE capital ships the hability to compress low end minerals too in a good ratio or give to the ORE capital ships the hability to mine low end ores in low sec with some kind of capital miners and providing only crystals for low ends ores.
Apophis Omega Amarr STK Scientific M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.08.12 17:36:00 - [360] 0/ Quick question about this thing. Could I start a compression. Let it finish and not deliever but still use the jump drive? Also has the jump drive range been decided yet?
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2007.08.12 18:05:00 - [361] Originally by: Oshaga Nanir But why should I train all the processing skills to level 4 on my PvP/Leadership character when I have so much more I can train instead. I was hoping that the assemblylines would be available to the miners in my gang aswell(cause thoose will have the processing skills at lvl 4 already). Seconded. Miners have refining skills, be it because they refine their own ore, or because they use (T2) lenses. The pilot shouldn't be required to have any mining/industry skills at all. He's just piloting a truck with a factory on the trailer, no reason why he should be able to use it. The thing is a big command ship with an added industry complex. Let the pilot handle the command ship and the miners the industry trailer.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.12 19:44:00 - [362] Originally by: Malcore Trisus Youre nerfing leadership? there is no definite plans to, internal discussions are ongoing. Originally by: Nyphur 2) Can compressed ore be removed from the bay and transported in a normal hauler? Also, can it be refined by someone else in a station? (This may have been answered but I didn't see the answer). Yes and yes.

DPSLogistics Mike	Posted - 2007.08.12 19:51:00 - [363] How was the 600,000m3 figure derived for the assembly line capacity of 10 installed jobs not delivered?

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.12 19:55:00 - [364] Originally by: DPSLogistics Mike How was the 600,000m3 figure derived for the assembly line capacity of 10 installed jobs not delivered? the cargobay capacity taking into account use of cargohold optimization rigs and expanders is around 63,000m3. Due to the run volumes, you can then install around 60,000m3 in each job and through normal S&I mechanics install and queue 10 jobs if you have advanced mass production V. The materials are effectively held in the assemblylines until you activate industrial mode again and deliver the jobs.

DPSLogistics Mike	Posted - 2007.08.12 20:16:00 - [365] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: DPSLogistics Mike How was the 600,000m3 figure derived for the assembly line capacity of 10 installed jobs not delivered? the cargobay capacity taking into account use of cargohold optimization rigs and expanders is around 63,000m3. Due to the run volumes, you can then install around 60,000m3 in each job and through normal S&I mechanics install and queue 10 jobs if you have advanced mass production V. The materials are effectively held in the assemblylines until you activate industrial mode again and deliver the jobs. But don't the compressed ore blueprints have a production limit of 20? So that 60,000m3, (about 400k units of scordite for example), would normally translate into 48 units of Compressed Scordite, but you can only make 20 per job...
DPSLogistics Mike	Posted - 2007.08.12 20:30:00 - [366] Also, wouldn't Advanced Mass Production V give you 11 queued jobs? The 1 that every character can do + 5 for Mass Production V + 5 for Advanced Mass Production V? Or is there some other limit?
Lady Darksaber J.I.T. Enterprises	Posted - 2007.08.12 23:41:00 - [367] Its all fine and dandy with the compression of ore, but what will the jump range be ? i hope at least as long as a carrier . i mean if they cant do a direct jump to empire....... That is all. LD www.eve-icsc.com
Bic Drax Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.08.13 07:09:00 - [368] Edited by: Bic Drax on 13/08/2007 07:11:58 Have there been any discussions about increasing the jump range from 5ly to 6.5ly to match carriers? Seeing as this ship is supposed to be for logistics it doesn't quite make sense to give it the jump range of a dread. Edit: this is going off of the information found here
Lord Timelord Artifex Dynamics New Eden Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.13 07:49:00 - [369] I have one question and one request! Question: What level of the Ore Processing Skills will be required for compressing the ores? Request: Please modify the Ship Maintenance Bay so it can at least hold Shuttles. That way if anyone needs to leave early they can do it in somthing other than a pod! __________ My Corporation's Website
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2007.08.13 09:40:00 - [370] Edited by: Admiral Nova on 13/08/2007 09:40:49 Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Malcore Trisus Youre nerfing leadership? there is no definite plans to, internal discussions are ongoing. Could we have some certainty soon ? Because I had 6 M SP in leadership, and then you nerfed gangs so I had to train another 4M SP to be 'not quite' as good as before. Now only 9 people can benefit from a specific 3 layers of gang bonuses when before everyone could.. And worse, if you do become one of those lucky 'squad leaders' who trained leadership V, you don't get any of the higher up bonuses. !!! In order to be a good fleet commander now you can jam on 6-7 gang links, BUT that means your ship is totally useless for any sort of front line role. If this is changed so you have to front line the ship AND only 1 person can give bonuses to the whole fleet. I will go find something else to play, where you don't have to spend a year training skills only to find that the goalposts move, and even after you reach the new goalposts you can't do what you could before, not even close. It really really sounds like you guys sit down at a meeting each week and ask the question 'what skills can we make them train?' rather than 'how can we make eve more enjoyable?'.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2007.08.13 09:53:00 - [371] Chronotis, it was mentioned earlier that the Ror-pilot would receive any Gang Drone bonuses if it used Mining Drones itself (and other drone types). So I now wonder, will the Ror-pilot add its bonuses to the gang as well as any other Gang Commander? For example (to make it easy) - We have a gang of a Hulk pilot, Command Ship pilot and a Ror-pilot. The CS pilot if the gang commander and is running gang modules, thus the Hulk pilot gets faster cycles of the current gang mining mods. Now the Ror-pilot enters the gang as member, will the Hulk pilot get the Ror's 5% bonus on top of what bonuses the CS pilot gives? Or does it have to be in commander position to get its bonuses? Keep up the good work, really looking forward to start making compressed Veldspar /c Help me help you .

Jason Starhawk	Posted - 2007.08.13 10:36:00 - [372] any chances that this new capital ship will have the ability to give a mining drone yield bonus for itself and the entire fleet?
Trojanman190 Caldari Murder-Death-Kill Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.13 13:23:00 - [373] Please please please please please don't nerf leadership stuff. It was already hosed with the new fleet system, changing it further is going to make it useless, and it was a LOT of sp to get those bonuses. Why does a general have to be on the front lines to command his troops? If you want to kill a guy giving gang bonuses thats what the probe system you already implemented is for. Forcing fleet command ships on grid while running 3 gangs mods is like forcing them out of them game since nobody will want to risk their gimped gang setups by sitting on grid.
Kalindra naskan Amarr Reprocity Pure.	Posted - 2007.08.13 13:39:00 - [374] Originally by: Chribba Chronotis, it was mentioned earlier that the Ror-pilot would receive any Gang Drone bonuses if it used Mining Drones itself (and other drone types). So I now wonder, will the Ror-pilot add its bonuses to the gang as well as any other Gang Commander? For example (to make it easy) - We have a gang of a Hulk pilot, Command Ship pilot and a Ror-pilot. The CS pilot if the gang commander and is running gang modules, thus the Hulk pilot gets faster cycles of the current gang mining mods. Now the Ror-pilot enters the gang as member, will the Hulk pilot get the Ror's 5% bonus on top of what bonuses the CS pilot gives? Or does it have to be in commander position to get its bonuses? Keep up the good work, really looking forward to start making compressed Veldspar /c Considering how it works now, I don't think he will, I guess you will need to have one of the pilots as wing commander, and also the appropriate level of WC to give more bonuses down. --- This sig is rated "N" for Nonexistant It's nonexistent btw - Cortes Meh, same thing.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.08.13 14:45:00 - [375] Edited by: Malachon Draco on 13/08/2007 14:45:52 Several problems with the current incarnation. 1. Jumprange too short. Make it like a carrier or it won't replace them for most of the hauling. 2. Add mineral compression as an option in refineries. Being able to compress in a Rorqual is nice, but no substitute for mineral compression as the volumes are too low and the time investment too great. I would suggest a compression option to be added to the types of jobs you can run in a refinery. 3. Transition is gonna be a ***. I would introduce the Rorqual now, and wait 2 months before nerfing the mineral compression by other modules. Give people time to adapt 4. Compression numbers are not that bad at first glance. Lets see. 333 veldspar is 1000 trit, compression of 3.3 by itself. Compressed trit is 10 times better, so a compression rate of 33. So instead of 100 trit per m3 its 3300. Decent enough. I think in the longterm 2. is certainly the most vital. Point 3 as it currently stands will make transition a ***, and point 1 will limit its attractiveness for the real deep 0.0 alliances to use as a transport. But if you add mineral compression as an option in refineries both in 0.0 and Empire, I think the system should work without too much problems. ------------------------------------------------ Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
Klaatu Nikto Gallente Frontier Combine Inc	Posted - 2007.08.13 16:32:00 - [376] Stats from sisi: EVE-Files:2007.08.13.16.04.14.jpg
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.13 17:15:00 - [377] Edited by: Chruker on 13/08/2007 17:20:23 I've updated my oog/igb page with the new information: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/new_rorqual.php Changes from previous SISI patch: - Ship requires Capital Ship at level 2 instead of level 4 - Ship Maintenance Bay has been increased from 600,000 m3 to 800,000 m3 - Ship has 20% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per Capital Industrial Ships level - Veldspar, Scordite, Pyroxeres, Plagioclase has approx. 40:1 compression ratio - The rest of the rock ores has 20:1 compression ratio - Ice ores has a 10:1 compression ratio - All of compressed ores now have a new icon on SISI. I like how those cubes look :-) (although none of the compression blueprints are using those cubed look, oversight?) - Still no new graphics on the ship icon ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.13 17:17:00 - [378] Edited by: Chruker on 13/08/2007 17:18:28 Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: DPSLogistics Mike How was the 600,000m3 figure derived for the assembly line capacity of 10 installed jobs not delivered? the cargobay capacity taking into account use of cargohold optimization rigs and expanders is around 63,000m3. Due to the run volumes, you can then install around 60,000m3 in each job and through normal S&I mechanics install and queue 10 jobs if you have advanced mass production V. The materials are effectively held in the assemblylines until you activate industrial mode again and deliver the jobs. Say a mining gang contains Z number of pilots that can all use the Rorqual and the compression capabilities to the fullest. Can they then each take their turn and then store Z * 10 * 60,000 m3 in the assembly lines? ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering
DarkStar251	Posted - 2007.08.13 17:45:00 - [379] Originally by: Max Tesla So the corps get everything and one man armies like me get nothing, yet again. EVE is a MULTIplayer game. If you want to play it solo, don't expect to be able to do everything. If you want to be able to play in your own little Sandbox, go play X3: Reunion. Fun game.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.13 17:48:00 - [380] Originally by: Chribba So I now wonder, will the Ror-pilot add its bonuses to the gang as well as any other Gang Commander? /c Hello Cribba, when in gang, the highest bonus of the eligible assigned booster will be in effect. Which is the highest of one of three people who are the designated boosters. If your Ror pilot comes along and is a designated booster, his bonus will overide your command ship pilots. Hope that explains it.


CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.13 17:51:00 - [381] Originally by: Apophis Omega 0/ Quick question about this thing. Could I start a compression. Let it finish and not deliver but still use the jump drive? Also has the jump drive range been decided yet? yes, when you deactivate the industrial core, current installed jobs are paused and when the duration is finished, you can jump away as normal. The jump range is 5 LY.

Ecid Q'Wulf Caldari Galactic Fighter Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.13 17:58:00 - [382] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Apophis Omega 0/ Quick question about this thing. Could I start a compression. Let it finish and not deliver but still use the jump drive? Also has the jump drive range been decided yet? yes, when you deactivate the industrial core, current installed jobs are paused and when the duration is finished, you can jump away as normal. The jump range is 5 LY. With Skills or without it? or dont they matter? "This post represents my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance." - wait a second, i am the CEO, ofcourse they do !!!

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.13 18:01:00 - [383] Originally by: Ecid Q'Wulf Originally by: CCP Chronotis The jump range is 5 LY. With Skills or without it? or dont they matter? without skills, that is the base. With jump drive calibration V you can get upto 11.25 LY

Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.13 18:02:00 - [384] Question for Chronotis: I've updated my page with the job runtime calculations: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/new_rorqual.php Am I missing something or is it correct that compressing a cargohold full of a lowend ores will take between 20 and 75 minutes? And compression a cargohold full of ice ores will take between 63 and 68 minutes? ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2007.08.13 18:04:00 - [385] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Chribba So I now wonder, will the Ror-pilot add its bonuses to the gang as well as any other Gang Commander? /c Hello Cribba, when in gang, the highest bonus of the eligible assigned booster will be in effect. Which is the highest of one of three people who are the designated boosters. If your Ror pilot comes along and is a designated booster, his bonus will overide your command ship pilots. Hope that explains it. Ok so the bonus doesn't really have any effect then if you have a maxed Mining Director in the gang as his/her skill would have higher boost than a Cap Industrial Lv1 trained pilot. Thanks for the answer So... will it be able to be built in a Large Array or will it require a Capital Array? Help me help you .

Vincent Law Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.08.13 18:04:00 - [386] Another thought, you give this ship only 90k sheild, 30k armor, and 250k hull and expect it to go into "Industrial Seige" in an asteroid belt when it will tank about as well as a soggy cardboard box but cost the same as a dread.
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.13 18:16:00 - [387] Edited by: Chruker on 13/08/2007 18:17:20 Originally by: Vincent Law Another thought, you give this ship only 90k sheild, 30k armor, and 250k hull and expect it to go into "Industrial Seige" in an asteroid belt when it will tank about as well as a soggy cardboard box but cost the same as a dread. The ships has the same base recharge rate as the Chimera. So I would expect it to be able to fit a nice tank. Although it doesn't have the shield resistancies bonus that the carrier has. I would say it should easily be able to tank any rats that might come its way. And with the 20% bonus to drone damage per level and tech 2 heavy drones or sentry drones. Those rats will wish they never spawned in that belt. ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.13 18:47:00 - [388] Originally by: Chruker Question for Chronotis: I've updated my page with the job runtime calculations: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/new_rorqual.php Am I missing something or is it correct that compressing a cargohold full of a lowend ores will take between 20 and 75 minutes? And compression a cargohold full of ice ores will take between 63 and 68 minutes? Your not missing anything, It does have room for some adjustment, using the upper limit of 20,000m3 per run we can change it to as much as 550 batches per run which alters the output volume to 458m3. It was kept low in design stage due mainly to initial compression volumes but can be adjusted upwards easily as its roughly only 30mins for one hulk to get enough ore.

Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.13 18:55:00 - [389] Edited by: Borgholio on 13/08/2007 18:58:09 What would the typical defense tactic for this ship be, were it jumped by hostiles? It doesn't seem very capable of defending itself, and the ship maintenance bay cannot hold combat ships. EDIT And nearly an hour for one compression job? You have any idea how much strontium that will consume? :-/ ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.13 19:05:00 - [390] Originally by: Borgholio Edited by: Borgholio on 13/08/2007 18:58:09 What would the typical defense tactic for this ship be, were it jumped by hostiles? It doesn't seem very capable of defending itself, and the ship maintenance bay cannot hold combat ships. EDIT And nearly an hour for one compression job? You have any idea how much strontium that will consume? :-/ It depends entirely on your strategy. I am certain, players will find the best way they can use it to suit their needs. The compression rates are not final as I answered in the previous post.

Amateratsu Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.13 19:18:00 - [391] Originally by: Borgholio Edited by: Borgholio on 13/08/2007 18:58:09 What would the typical defense tactic for this ship be, were it jumped by hostiles? It doesn't seem very capable of defending itself, and the ship maintenance bay cannot hold combat ships. As it stands atm, this ship has no possibility of defending itself.... Killing a Rorqual will be childs play, stick an ecm or 2 on it, pop it's drones and it will be a dead sitting duck, at your mercy, begging to be put down like a rabbid dog.
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.13 19:27:00 - [392] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Chruker Question for Chronotis: I've updated my page with the job runtime calculations: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/new_rorqual.php Am I missing something or is it correct that compressing a cargohold full of a lowend ores will take between 20 and 75 minutes? And compression a cargohold full of ice ores will take between 63 and 68 minutes? Your not missing anything, It does have room for some adjustment, using the upper limit of 20,000m3 per run we can change it to as much as 550 batches per run which alters the output volume to 458m3. It was kept low in design stage due mainly to initial compression volumes but can be adjusted upwards easily as its roughly only 30mins for one hulk to get enough ore. heh, and here I thought the 20+ minute times for a full cargohold (63k-68k m3) was the error. So much for my business of sitting with this one outside the refineries of in 0.0 and offer people to compress their ore for shipment to empire :-) But on the bright side now I wont be killed by the refinary owner. ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.13 19:30:00 - [393] Originally by: Amateratsu As it stands atm, this ship has no possibility of defending itself.... Killing a Rorqual will be childs play, stick an ecm or 2 on it, pop it's drones and it will be a dead sitting duck, at your mercy, begging to be put down like a rabbid dog. Just as any other logistics ship in PVP. This is just the logistics ship for miners. As long as this thing can easily tank any belt/gravimetric site rats, I'm happy. ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering
Amateratsu Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.13 19:38:00 - [394] Originally by: Chruker Originally by: Amateratsu As it stands atm, this ship has no possibility of defending itself.... Killing a Rorqual will be childs play, stick an ecm or 2 on it, pop it's drones and it will be a dead sitting duck, at your mercy, begging to be put down like a rabbid dog. Just as any other logistics ship in PVP. This is just the logistics ship for miners. As long as this thing can easily tank any belt/gravimetric site rats, I'm happy. Untill a roaming pirate gang enters local, and you can't run away because your stuck in deployed mode. Then have to sit an watch as the gang probes you down and proceeds to blow the crap out of your 2 billion isk ship....
Magdala Equilibrium LLC	Posted - 2007.08.13 19:49:00 - [395] What's the base number of gang mods it can run? If it's 1 then it needs the +1 link per level of <insertskillhere>. If it's not 1, then it needs to be either 5 or 6.
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.13 19:50:00 - [396] Thats what scouts are for. Or gate camps. ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.13 19:54:00 - [397] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Chruker Question for Chronotis: I've updated my page with the job runtime calculations: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/new_rorqual.php Am I missing something or is it correct that compressing a cargohold full of a lowend ores will take between 20 and 75 minutes? And compression a cargohold full of ice ores will take between 63 and 68 minutes? Your not missing anything, It does have room for some adjustment, using the upper limit of 20,000m3 per run we can change it to as much as 550 batches per run which alters the output volume to 458m3. It was kept low in design stage due mainly to initial compression volumes but can be adjusted upwards easily as its roughly only 30mins for one hulk to get enough ore. I don't get what you mean by this part: It does have room for some adjustment, using the upper limit of 20,000m3 per run we can change it to as much as 550 batches per run which alters the output volume to 458m3. Also it just occured to me that the BPOs have production limits of 20. So the number of blocks per jobs is at max. 20 ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering
Amateratsu Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.13 20:02:00 - [398] and what are your scouts gonna fly? since the Rorqual can only carry hulks or industrials.. Im thinking of empire based corps running nomad operations in hostile territory, as was suggested in the original deblog. Its less of a problem for those of us that live in 0.0 and will not be shot on sight by the owning alliance.
Xeron Silverblade Esthar Industries	Posted - 2007.08.13 20:04:00 - [399] has it been stated how much the ship-bpo will be? sry.. can't find it..
Laendra	Posted - 2007.08.13 20:15:00 - [400] Originally by: Chruker Question for Chronotis: I've updated my page with the job runtime calculations: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/new_rorqual.php Am I missing something or is it correct that compressing a cargohold full of a lowend ores will take between 20 and 75 minutes? And compression a cargohold full of ice ores will take between 63 and 68 minutes? Chruker, one more thing that could be useful. The cost per unit of ore to compress the batch (total_cost_to_compress/batch_size). -------------------
Recon One Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.08.13 20:58:00 - [401] Tbh while i can see a couple of uses for this ship what i mainly see happening is one sitting in a pos in low sec next to a corp hangar array.... freighter with ore warps in drop in corp hangar array..... chug chug chug ding out pops compressed ore from the roq. carrier loads up and jumps out.... out in 0.0 carrier docks and compressed mins are refined. I may be missing the mineral/ore compression part but this thing isnt going any where with out a pos near by to sit in. If you want low ends in 0.0 its often wiser to ahul from empire as who wants to mine something worth 3 isk pu when you are sitting next to a rock with something worth 2000 isk pu. Also who realy is going to compress bistot for the long ride back? its safer to use a freindly refinery or even a pos refinery in the area and haul back with a carrier as not too many people save up over a million zyd to move at once... just my thoughts Recon One
Dead6re	Posted - 2007.08.13 21:40:00 - [402] You need to remember this ship isn't a carrier, It is not ment to be a combat support ship like carriers, its more for helping miners move gear around. CCP's idea for the ship is to jump into a system, put out a small POS and mine from there then pack up a leave. Under no circumstances is it ment to be a tank for attacks. CCP gives drones a buff on this ship if you look a couple of pages back, this is not on any screenshots yet. Remeber what the ship is ment to be used for, not what you would like it used for. My corporation is currently happy with the way this Rorqual is turning out and can't wait to see the final bugs.
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.13 22:06:00 - [403] Edited by: Chruker on 13/08/2007 22:14:17 404 - Server was unable to find this post EDIT: Sorry couldn't resist ;-) 2nd EDIT for Chronotis: I've noticed that the marketgroup for the compression BPOs has a non-blueprint icon (ie. doesn't have the blue stuff superimposed on it). Also the marketgroup is named: 'Manufacture & Research' Also the marketgroup icon for the 'Ships' -> 'Capital Industrial Ships' is just a blue'ish folder icon. The marketgroup for the 'Capital Industrial Ships' blueprints also has that blue'ish folder, instead of the regular blue'ish blob. ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.13 22:45:00 - [404] Edited by: Chruker on 13/08/2007 22:46:25 Addition question: So currently with the the production limit of 20 on the BPOs there is a 20 minute job time on the low-end & ice ore. Any 3rd graders will agree that 4 * 5 minutes is 20 minutes. So will the industrial core waste a cycle because job length matches x * cycles? Can you install jobs before activating the core? If not any compression will need a little waste time while installing and delivering the jobs. This would actually be solved if you could exchange it from cycle based to being a delay from the time you turn the module off. ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering
kasalupin	Posted - 2007.08.13 22:53:00 - [405] A 5ly jump range is smaller thn the carrier and thus it will not replace the carrier role as a glorified hauler as it should. Also, make him ew immune in deployed mode similarly to the carrier and dread deployed mode so it can at least continue to remote rep the hulks before dying.
Cloora APEX Unlimited APEX Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.14 00:01:00 - [406] Well I am happy this is finally coming to fruition and CCP listend to the ideas presented by the mining community. I am rather dissapointed by the stats of this ship. It really needs to have the output of at least a Retreiver with its drones or some mining lasers or it will be not be very well used. This is simply because even with it's bonuses another Hulk will add more yield. I think that the ship is not worth it as it stands.
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.14 00:32:00 - [407] Edited by: Chruker on 14/08/2007 00:32:07 Originally by: Laendra Originally by: Chruker Question for Chronotis: I've updated my page with the job runtime calculations: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/new_rorqual.php Am I missing something or is it correct that compressing a cargohold full of a lowend ores will take between 20 and 75 minutes? And compression a cargohold full of ice ores will take between 63 and 68 minutes? Chruker, one more thing that could be useful. The cost per unit of ore to compress the batch (total_cost_to_compress/batch_size). I've update the table with the number of units of Strontium that is needed to compress one unit of the regular ore. There are 3 columns, each with different skillcombos. Was this what you meant? ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering
Talons Two Brothers Mining Corp. The Sundering	Posted - 2007.08.14 00:35:00 - [408] So, why won't everyone just use this ship as the jump drive mini-freighter it is? Why was the carrier nerfed again? And if you are making a 'transformer' because the movie was cool, then for heaven's sake make it WORTHWHILE! I want a ship to come out of the design bureau actually capable of doing the damn job for a change! If it is a mining 'crusher', fine, but then why move it? Why fly it? Why anything? Make a pos module that does the job instead. If it is not a mobile refinert al by itself, you guys missed the boat... and since it is not, 'toot toot' there goes the boat. What it SHOULD do is be able to carry 5 fully outfitted hulks, refine the ore right there in the belts with say 30-40% loss, field its own self-defenses, have the ability for the miners to dock, but not be able to haul any ore and the ship maint array should only carry mining equipment. As a Cap ship, it should not go into mining in a system alone. After reading over the ship specs and its operation conditions, I think you guys missed your target... Too complex, not enough capability to 'do' the mining operation for a full 5 people and doesn't refine the ore right into minerals. However, all that being said, it also only needs a jump range the same as a Dread, at 4.5ly per skill level. Why would you make one a strange rate? So, since it is only going to 'crush rocks' into smaller volume, but higher density, it seems like a waste of time in what is already a very time consuming process. I am sure the model's animation is 'cool', but the reality is that we play to have FUN and this ship is nothing but WORK! Someone said you guys actually 'listen' to your customers, but from what I have seen in the game itself, you only listen to a very, very small group of them. Open your ears to MORE VOICES! Give me a Jump Drive Capable Mini-Freighter over this thing ANY day of the week! Talons Talons CEO Offices: Allebin, Droselory, Iivinen, C9N, VNGJ
Jaabaa Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.14 00:42:00 - [409] What can I say that hasn't already been said. I don't get involved in the industrial side of EVE, but IMHO, this is a fix for a non existent problem. Who cares if people are compressing and refining minerals using modules to transport them to 0.0 ? It's a level playing field, and everyone can train the skills to do it. But really, when you think of a REAL 0.0 mining op: 1) You might be prepared to deposit a combat ship for a hauler to help. * You can't do that with this ship's ship hangar, industrials only, so you have to leave it in space, outside, while you haul. Not going to happen IMHO 2) Mine and compress low ends in 0.0 (or in empire for that matter). * You really want to pay the ISK for Strontium to power a system that will compress Veldspar ? You think that people are going to pay for ice products to compress low ends ? Not going to happen IMHO 3) All the NPCers (mission runners in empire) are going to love this, a 20% drop in their refines of the loot that they get, just because it might have been built to compress minerals ? I guess that will go down like a ball of lead too. ------- I guess that changing the way that EVE works (and has worked for years) to justify a new ship class, with it's new and awesome capabilities is the way to go. Best of it is, this patch won't only ** off the industrialists, it will, well pretty much, ** off the whole of the 0.0 PvPer community (things are going to get even MORE expensive) and the alliance builders. Who will want to build an outpost in the depths of 0.0 based on what is going to happen here ? Very few I think. This is a move that really has global implications for just about EVERY aspect of EvE.
WGD118	Posted - 2007.08.14 01:52:00 - [410] CCP why not allow this ship in high sec? 1. It can't mine not much use to macros then even with its gang boost 2. Even if the macros use it they will just be easier to spot and petition as they will all be in a gang 3. By allowing this ship in high sec you setup for the mineral compression nerf. 4. Because it doesn't mine you are not going to see millions of them floating around high sec only large corps and alliances are going to use them. Just make two different versions one for 0.0 and one for high sec. For high sec just take out the clone vat and jump drive. Also make the compression just a little bit better for low end ores. Maybe cut the shield components needed for building it in half which would also cuts the shields in half. This also would make the ship a little cheaper since it uses less components and allows for low end ore to be moved into 0.0 when the mineral nerf is implemented. Thanks
dragonofearth	Posted - 2007.08.14 01:57:00 - [411] What skill are need to fly this ship?
Amateratsu Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.14 06:33:00 - [412] Originally by: kasalupin A 5ly jump range is smaller thn the carrier and thus it will not replace the carrier role as a glorified hauler as it should. Also, make him ew immune in deployed mode similarly to the carrier and dread deployed mode so it can at least continue to remote rep the hulks before dying. Any hulks that don't flee the moment hostiles appear will be dead long before this ship can get the remote reppers on them. Im not looking for this ship to be made a combat ship as powerful as a carrier or whatever, But a ship that can't escape due to being pinned down in deployed mode NEEDS to be able to put up at least a measure of defence. At the moment, the ship is a big fat juicy target with a big fat neon sign on its head saying to all pirates.... I CAN'T RUN, I CAN'T FIGHT, COME AND GANK ME. and the pirates will be queing up to hunt down and destroy these ships just for the hell of it.
Lougra Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.14 08:05:00 - [413] Originally by: Caol Edited by: Caol on 03/08/2007 12:56:08 Edited by: Caol on 03/08/2007 12:46:41 Originally by: CCP Chronotis will the mining capital ship have a bonus to mining ganglinks, like the command ships do? ie. 3% increase in effectiveness of all mining ganglinks? currently 5% per ship skill level with additional bonus when the industrial core is active. Thats great, the laser optimization link will now be a must fit module giving a further 25% reduction in mining duration to a maxed out pilot! Expanding on Haladas' mining guide, a pilot with Warfare Spec V, Mining Director V, the Mining Mindlink and the ORE Cap ship skill to V will get a 28.125% increase on link effectiveness (from 22.5*1.25). Or, a reduction in mining duration of 1/(1-0.28125) = 1.391 or 39.1%. In other words a ~ 10% boost to miner yield. Well worth having the ship in gang and thats without the industrial core being active Dont be so happy. My mining director finished yesterday the Warfare Link Specialist lvl 5 after 33(!!!) days of training. In description says "Improved gang leadership. Boosts effectiveness of all warfare link modules by 10% per level." At level 4 my mining cycle was 142.5 secs. At level 5 mining cycle is 139.5 secs. According to this, how much you thing you can get by 5% of level? a total reduce of 4-5 secs? Simple not worth it. This might gives a HUGE boost in ice mining where timer is insanely high and gives almost nothing there where timer is already low. Carebear is the surname that you got, if you enjoy to play eve, in other way than the rest want YOU to play it.
Onmiusha	Posted - 2007.08.14 08:20:00 - [414] Ok, I donÆt know where to post this at, so I will post it here . I finally have something to say after much reading. I always seen mining and hauling as two different job class. Why? Because you can only mine or haul at any given one point of time. I love mining and been waiting for a new mining ship for a long time. First off i would like to thank ccp for thinking about the hauls and not the miners. At first I wanted very much to fly this ship. Then after my week of not drinking, I realize this not a mining capt ship (WTH). (With much sadness I started drinking again.) à.. (If you're a miner, you're getting a new toy. And you guys said we didn't love you.) WTH????(BTW can I use WTH???).To reply to that statement...When will the miners get a new toy???Atm it seem like you donÆt love us .... Saying that we are getting a new toy. Bad CCPà Now back to drinking Before I finish this glass and pass out. OMG!! 5 drones to mining with? Are you guys on something? (If so pass me some.) Where are the mining lasers? Where the capt mining ship? Lets look at this statement again--- ôIf you're a miner, you're getting a new toy. And you guys said we didn't love you.ö Wait let look at it one more time ùôIf you're a hauler, you're getting a new toy. And you guys said we didn't love you.ö Btw I think a group of SB would take the hold mining opt out. That would be funny to see. OMG!! We lost 5 hulk and 1 capt industrial ship. When these happen just come and drink with me.
Zeros Alpha	Posted - 2007.08.14 11:04:00 - [415] What is the ships jump drive range in light years?
DaMaster Architect SOTI Inc. FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.14 11:37:00 - [416] Edited by: DaMaster Architect on 14/08/2007 11:38:41 It saddens me how many people think this ship sucks. Somehow it should be an end-all, be-all, holy careabear grail. To many people it should be able to not only compress ore, haul insane amounts of random stuff, and give awesome gang bonusses, but also it should be able to protect miners from a ganksquad in 0.0, it should be a mining ship too, refine ore, and whatnot else to be worth the 1.85bil costs. That's bs. Ignore them ccp, and chronitis especially, for I believe this is a great ship. If you want to mine in hostile space with or without this ship, bring protection. A mining vessel should never be able to protect itself and others from ganksquads and raids. The ship is a great hauler. With a ship maint array of 800k m3, and a basic cargohold of 20000m3, it can carry over 100k m3 of goods and therefore makes a very good jumpcapable mini-freighter. The ship is a great hauler-replacement. From my experience, several haulers were needed to bring the mined ore to an outpost, station or pos. One rorqual can replace them all, and the people who were hauling before, can now hop into a combat ship to protect the mining op or hop into some kind of mining ship and start mining! The ship is a great gang ship at mining ops. Like a command ship (or even better than a command ship) it boosts up mining significantly because of the gang mods. About the skill requirements. Yeah well, I've seen them changed several times over the past weeks. we'll see. As long as more people than only dedicated miners can fly them, I'll definitely be training up for one. I know you love us ccp! :)
LiBraga Corp 1 Allstars Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.14 11:47:00 - [417] Edited by: LiBraga on 14/08/2007 11:48:55 Remember there's still the possibility of fighter class mining drones. They're not coming with this addition but haven't been ruled out for later patches. If each one was roughly as effective as a retriever I'm sure you'd be happy. Shame about the lack of capital strip miners though. Finally I thought it was a capital mining barge that the industrial/miners wanted. I'll probably get my industrial account one in the hopes of the "fighter miners" being introduced later. But atm the only use I see is to compress mins in a pos then take them to the station.... oh wait.... with the freighter docking array in a pos you can do that and carry even more without needing to compress it. --------------- What! Caldari have dps now... noooo Aye, T2 HAMs FTW!!!!!
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.14 12:02:00 - [418] 30 minutes a new patch came on SISI. THe patch didn't change the ship/module stats, but the issue with compression time of a full cargohold of the low-end rock ores, has been solved. A full cargohold of any of the rock ores, will now take no longer than 3-5 minutes of compression time. However the ice compression BPOs had their production limit decreased to 10 runs, so you can at most compress 10 icecubes. There is always the chance that the complete set of changes didn't make it into the pre-lunch patch. So lets see what happens. Updated page here: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/new_rorqual.php Ohhh, and the ship finally got its graphics :-) Check this link ingame for the high-res images: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/test_images.php?typeID=28352 ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering
Lord Wack	Posted - 2007.08.14 14:32:00 - [419] Great ship, but i got some suggestions Give it invulnaralbilty to Warp-scamblers, or a Capital ECM burst so it wont be a pirates wet dream in low-sec Give it the ability to use a Drone Control units Drone hulks would be cool, or some other solo-mining thing (fit strips). I like the engulving of roid idea imho a solo miner should be able outmine 1 hulk if he uses this ship. And, please allow it to be used for transporting cruisers/bc/frigs etc Its a transport ship already, make it a real one
Mynas Atoch Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.14 14:33:00 - [420] Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 14/08/2007 14:34:15 Preventing the storage of combat ships in the hangar, and not permitting it to use fighters is a missed opportunity for interesting gameplay. This ship would be an ideal Auxilliary Carrier - a primarily civilian ship, bent into military service in time of great need. Precedents exist from prespaceflight legends, such as the Merchant Aircraft Carriers from WW2 and the Brithsh containers ships from the Falklans/Malvinas War. The former were hasilty converted merchant ships, the latter pre-planned limited dual-use ships, making use of helicoptor and VTOL fighters. None were ideal for their role, but the repurposing itself was fascinating. Allowing five fighters to be controlled by the Rorqual would create an interesting, but not game breaking, defensive capability. Allowing the covops/recon pilot who tracked down the hidden belt amd cyno'd in the Rorqual to exploit it, to then dock his covops and switch to a hulk reduces the number of accounts I need to run solo too! Myn
Aethrwolf	Posted - 2007.08.14 16:35:00 - [421] Well, I see that this favors large corps/alliances. compression is nice, but not what people have been asking for... and this is just another way for miners to lose isk as we are already targets for pirates and most of us cant defend ourselves, we can refuse to engage in high sec when someone steals from us and there for waste what may be an hour's mining for some people, but we cant usually fight back on our own. Thieves get penalized in absolutely no way.. oh yeah, our gang can attack them while the timer is up, but mining gangs/fleets are usually all industrial characters. This ship requires us to operate outside of high sec, where its basically open season on us.
POTUS Pimpology Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.08.14 17:41:00 - [422] Edited by: POTUS on 14/08/2007 17:41:32 Has it been posted what the skill tree is going to be for the ship and mods yet? If so, please link where. Also, what will the costs for the skill books be? I just want to have as much of this done when it comes out.
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.14 18:06:00 - [423] Originally by: POTUS Edited by: POTUS on 14/08/2007 17:41:32 Has it been posted what the skill tree is going to be for the ship and mods yet? If so, please link where. Also, what will the costs for the skill books be? I just want to have as much of this done when it comes out. Look at the skills sections for the ship and modules here: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/new_rorqual.php Also not that each ore group require level 4 in the relevant ore processing skills. Ex. to compress the 3 kinds of veldspar ore you need Veldspar Processing 4. So with the pre-requistics for the high-end and ice ore processing skills there is a lot of skill training hidden there. ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.14 18:08:00 - [424] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: DPSLogistics Mike How was the 600,000m3 figure derived for the assembly line capacity of 10 installed jobs not delivered? the cargobay capacity taking into account use of cargohold optimization rigs and expanders is around 63,000m3. Due to the run volumes, you can then install around 60,000m3 in each job and through normal S&I mechanics install and queue 10 jobs if you have advanced mass production V. The materials are effectively held in the assemblylines until you activate industrial mode again and deliver the jobs. Can't you with Advanced Mass Production 5 start 11 jobs? ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering
Caruleum Ursa	Posted - 2007.08.14 18:22:00 - [425] This game is all about the PvP. (Wake up, Miners! CCP is simply making the PvPers another big target to increase the carnage!) If you want a large red bullseye painted on your arse, BUY THIS SHIP! (Unless, your industrialists are well defended by loyal PvP fleets, who live to worship their care bears.) If you want to create an offworld super-drilling platform, it should at least drill 200% more crude than a regular mining ship. Otherwise, what's the point? Mineral conservation? This ship will reduce your mining gang by at least one more pilot, in addition to the lookouts and other support already needed in low sec ... I suppose it's a boon for some of the really large low sec corps, who may soon need to mine veldspar in 0.0 due to compression changes, but it is unfortunately not going to be sought after by the ordinary miners in EvE. Yes, this sounds like a glorified Super Tanker/Refinery ready to be set adrift in a war zone ... and, it's ready to go BOOM! What an expensive oil spill you'll have to clean up ...
Kallana Wren	Posted - 2007.08.14 18:57:00 - [426] Originally by: Amateratsu and what are your scouts gonna fly? since the Rorqual can only carry hulks or industrials.. Im thinking of empire based corps running nomad operations in hostile territory, as was suggested in the original deblog. Its less of a problem for those of us that live in 0.0 and will not be shot on sight by the owning alliance. Gee, cause it would be real hard to toss a few cov-ops in the holds of those indys and have them fit themselves out next to the ship. I mean... Unless you were planning on filling all the holds for the trip up? Makes it hard to store your ore that way...
Amateratsu Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.14 19:20:00 - [427] Edited by: Amateratsu on 14/08/2007 19:22:03 Originally by: Kallana Wren Originally by: Amateratsu and what are your scouts gonna fly? since the Rorqual can only carry hulks or industrials.. Im thinking of empire based corps running nomad operations in hostile territory, as was suggested in the original deblog. Its less of a problem for those of us that live in 0.0 and will not be shot on sight by the owning alliance. Gee, cause it would be real hard to toss a few cov-ops in the holds of those indys and have them fit themselves out next to the ship. I mean... Unless you were planning on filling all the holds for the trip up? Makes it hard to store your ore that way... Interesting possibility tho i will be very surprised if you can put a ship in a ship into the maintanance bay Btw Chronotis there is a typo error in the ships info Capital Industrial Ships skill bonuses: -5% reduction in fuel consumption for industrial cores per level 5% bonus to bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level when in deployed mode 50% bonus to the range of Capital Shield Transporters per level. 20% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level.
Kallana Wren	Posted - 2007.08.14 19:25:00 - [428] Edited by: Kallana Wren on 14/08/2007 19:31:11 You definitely can, since packaged ships pop out assembled (aside from shuttles iirc) So you just fill the hauler with scout ships and mods. 10 jump clones = 4 hulk pilots, 1-2 Indy pilots and? 4 scouts. Plus the recon that cyno'd them all in in the first place. And before someone says "omg you noob how you fit teh shipz?!" It has a ship maintenance array. Do I really need to expand on that? Also... I highly doubt CCP had even considered the miner equivalent of the solo belt pwning machine. Easy transport of minerals into 0.0 is part of what makes the massive lag-fest fleet battles so frequent. If the minerals are harder to come by, 2 things happen. One, ships become valued again. Two, miners become more important members of 0.0 alliances, as they will then be needed to produce the low ends needed to build BSs and other ships for survival. Easy mineral transport makes space too small.
Amateratsu Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.14 19:40:00 - [429] Originally by: Kallana Wren Edited by: Kallana Wren on 14/08/2007 19:31:11 You definitely can, since packaged ships pop out assembled (aside from shuttles iirc) So you just fill the hauler with scout ships and mods. 10 jump clones = 4 hulk pilots, 1-2 Indy pilots and? 4 scouts. Plus the recon that cyno'd them all in in the first place. so if you jettison a packaged ship from your cargohold, it pops out as an assembled ship ready for boarding? if thats the case, you could put more than a dosen pakaged hulks into a transport ship, then place the transport into the maintanance bay? would enable much larger ops to be fielded by this ship...
Duradam Black List Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.08.14 20:06:00 - [430] That is correct- however you will not be able to repackage the ship to jump it back out. While I don't mind clone jumping out and assembling/fitting a cheap frig or intercepter, mining in my hulk which will jump back safely, and then taking the risk of flying back in my cepter, I don't think most people will jump out 10 hulks and then try to fly them back to safe space.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.08.14 21:36:00 - [431] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Compression Rates ~20:1 for high end ores ~20:1 for 'medium' ores ~40:1 for low end ores ~8:1 for ice Please take another look at this! While 40:1 compression might sound okay, that is the compression of the ore, not the minerals. Your best actual compression ratio is 13:1 with Dense Veldspar. The nerf is to mineral compression, not to ore compression, so the balancing should be done against the same attribute as the nerf. With the current plan, logistics will require +30x as much work for transporting low end minerals. That is a harsh nerf. Here is a quick run down of the mineral compression/expansion ratios. The 'concentrated' and 'dense' versions of the ores would provide and addition 5% or 10% bonus to the compression ratio. Compression: 11.99 Veldspar 9.90 Scordite 4.09 Pyroxeres 3.47 Plagioclase Expansion: (Yes, these compressed ores are still larger than their minerals.) 2.03 Omber 2.07 Kernite 3.83 Jaspet 8.56 Hemorphite 6.85 Hedbergite 20.40 Spodumain 11.68 Gneiss 16.00 Ochre 29.36 Crokite 20.02 Bistot 20.02 Arkonor 94.33 Mercoxit With hi end minerals, it could be aurgued that compression was not truly required. However, low and mid level mineral compression needs another look. Going from 430x to 13x max compression is a huge change in low end mineral compression. In the case of the mid range minerals, compression simply doesn't exist any more. If the intention of the compressed ores was to add new content then there is no need to nerf mineral compression. However, the dev blog seemed to indicate that compressed ore was to replace modules as a form of mineral compression. Originally by: Dev Blog This ship's unique ore compression ability allows the movement of ores from fringe regions to empire space for refining, a feature requested since EVE's launch. The Rorqual's introduction grants us the ability to incorporate older æmetafeaturesÆ into EVE in a balanced and officially supported manner. I would recommend rebalancing the ores based on their mineral compression value, Low's ~30:1, Mid's ~15:1, Hi's ~7.5:1. This would also increase demand for some of the low sec ores, as they would be the primary sorce of compressed mid range minerals. As it is the only value provided by the Ore Capital ship in low sec, is the gang bonus. The added value of compressed ore for shipment, might increase usage of low sec. Quote: No misfortune is so bad that whining about it won't make it worse

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.15 06:55:00 - [432] However the ice compression BPOs had their production limit decreased to 10 runs, so you can at most compress 10 icecubes. There is always the chance that the complete set of changes didn't make it into the pre-lunch patch. So lets see what happens. ice compression does need some adjustment and may or may not come in 2.2 as the emphasis is on ore compression for now. Btw Chronotis there is a typo error in the ships info <doh> in an unrelated note: falling asleep whilst playing eve is bad.

Klaatu Nikto Gallente Frontier Combine Inc	Posted - 2007.08.15 08:50:00 - [433] Originally by: Chruker http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/new_rorqual.php Please add compressed ore:refined products volume ratio column. We'll see then which compressed ores have chance forming secondary market.
Sheha Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2007.08.15 09:04:00 - [434] Some of the WHINES are about the number of Hulks it can carry. Why use it as a ship platform? Remove the Ship Hangar. Add four Capital Mining Lasers. Keep all the rest. Now give it a crew of 5 players! One is the Pilot (cap skilled) whose job is solely to fly the ship and operate the industrial processes and drones. The remaining Four make up the Mining Crew, the Turret Controllers (mining skilled) who each operate one Capital Laser Turret, exactly like POS Defence Batteries. Make the Lasers slightly better than or at least equal to standard T2 turrets and let them mine anything within range that the Turret Controller has the skills for. ie; if the turret controller has no skills for Bistot he/she cannot mine Bistot with the turret. Make '"ore type" processing' level three minimum requirement - level five optimum turret yield, so that anyone with lvl 3 Veldspar processing can use it, but Arkonor 5 makes it rock. Tie in the yield with the skill level of the Operator to give a max of +10% (lvl 3 > lvl 4 =+5% - lvl 4 > lvl5 =+10%). Maxed out Ore Processing skills = maxed out Cap Laser Turret yield. No new skills required; just train up the ones you should have already! I hear it... "Five pods killed at once!"... well... defend the mining op and ship!
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.08.15 09:12:00 - [435] Give more cargo and less Ship Bay. Why should a mining capital have more ship bay as a carrier??????? Its crazy. Or boost the carrier ship Bay to 900k m3
Sheha Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2007.08.15 09:29:00 - [436] One more point is this... Why not let 5 people have the experience of flying in a massive Cap Ship, in stead of just one rich guy with uber skills? As it stands this is not much more than an single person uber factory with car park! All most people will ever be able to do with it is park a ship inside, or fly by and look at it... just like the other cap classes. Opportunity missed imo.
Amior Amarr Pringles Inc. YouWhat	Posted - 2007.08.15 10:49:00 - [437] This ships needs updating... and it will only hurt those people in lowsec/0.0... Would you be able to actually make a Capital Strip Miner so the ship can only fit one... Capital Strip Miner thats can do 4x Strip Miner Is Capital Ice Miner that can do 3x Ice Harvesters Is Capital Deepcore Strip Miner 2x Deepcore Strip Miner Is Capital Cloud Harvesters (into a special strip miner) 10x Cloud Harvesters Is Also add a new siege module that will be able to increase... 7.5% bonus to all shield resistances per level 3% better yield for Strip Miners per level 100% bonus Ice Harvester yield but 25% penalty to ice harvester duration 5% reduction in Ice Harvester duration per level 60% bonus to Mercoxit Mining Crystal yield multiplier 20% reduced chance of gas cloud forming per level Also make it a requirement to use the capital ore for Exhumer V... Thats it I guess until now if I can think of anything... Once you pop, you can't stop! - Pringles I R PIEWATE! Yarh haha! I eat noobs for breakfast
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.08.15 10:49:00 - [438] Originally by: CCP Chronotis [b] in an unrelated note: falling asleep whilst playing eve is bad. uh oh, did someone get blown up? lol -------------------------- Official VnV ocd forum resident :) Victory not Vengeance [VnV] Proud member of Intrepid Crossing [IRC]
Lady Darksaber J.I.T. Enterprises	Posted - 2007.08.15 11:03:00 - [439] i know there has been alot of talk about the skills needed ..what should or should not be there, but has anything been comfirmed by CCP skill vice ? Im getting one of this ships , but would like to get my skills in order first ... Thanks LD That is all www.eve-icsc.com
Helison Gallente Times of Ancar Pure.	Posted - 2007.08.15 13:04:00 - [440] Currently on Sisi you need about 15-16k m3 Ore for one compress-run. I think this is a bit high in comparison with the cargosize of the rorqual (you won¦t use 3 cargo-expander if you really use it in a belt) and in comparison with the size of roids. I personally think that it would be best, if it needs about 5000m3 Ore for compressing one run. The the time to compress one jet-conti is still ok (4-5min) and you won¦t have as much excess-material when finishing a mining-op.
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.15 14:34:00 - [441] Originally by: Lady Darksaber i know there has been alot of talk about the skills needed ..what should or should not be there, but has anything been comfirmed by CCP skill vice ? The at this reply a few posts above yours: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=568534&page=15#424 ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.15 16:07:00 - [442] Originally by: Klaatu Nikto Originally by: Chruker http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/new_rorqual.php Please add compressed ore:refined products volume ratio column. We'll see then which compressed ores have chance forming secondary market. I'm unsure if this is what you mean: You need 333 units of raw veldspar to refine it Each unit of raw veldspar is 0.1 m3 Each compression run compresses 500 x refine batches (166500 / 333 = 500). So (hopefully) it'll give 500x the minerals of a regular veldspar refine batch. A refine batch of regular veldspar should give 1000 units of tritanium, which each has a volume of 0.01. So the output volume of a regular refine batch is 10 m3. This means that refining a cube of compressed veldspar should give you 500 x 10 = 5000 m3 of minerals. A cube of compressed veldspar is 417 m3 So the compressed ore to refined products ration should be: 5000 / 417 = 1 : 11.99 If that is what you asked for, then that column is on the chart. ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering
Quutar Caldari Auraxian Irregulars The Sundering	Posted - 2007.08.15 17:14:00 - [443] is the BPO for the Rorqual finalized? it takes longer to research that a mothership BPO? and it's build time does not line up with the dreads/carriers/freighters is this intentional? Not finding research slots in Empire Space? Try Quutar Research Services.
dragonofearth	Posted - 2007.08.15 17:32:00 - [444] this ship should be allowed in high sec. Make another version of it that does well with low grade roids. Let it in high sec
WGD118	Posted - 2007.08.15 18:05:00 - [445] I agree with dragonofearth make one for high sec that does not have jump clones, jump drive and less of a tank
velocity7	Posted - 2007.08.15 18:45:00 - [446] Just basing my numbers off: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/new_rorqual.php So we have 166,500 Veldspar that will turn into 1 Compressed Veldspar. 166,500 Veldspar gives off 500,000 Tritanium given 100% refining, so 1 Compressed Veldspar should do the same. 1 Compressed Veldspar is 417 m3, so let's throw as much of that into the Medium Intensive Refining Array as we can. Say we get the maximum refine there, which is 75% refine. So we can throw in 59 of these Compressed Veldspar, and each of them is going to give off 500,000 * 0.75 = 375,000 Tritanium. Final output from a Medium Intensive Refining Array will give 22,125,000 Tritanium. This works out to be approximately 221,250 m3. Which is a hell of a lot bigger than the Medium Intensive Refining Array can hold. Can someone double-check?
Andrus Delai e X i l e FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.15 19:06:00 - [447] I don't see why the Rorqual needs two Capital Ship skills. Industrial ships are not more difficult to command than combat ships. Quite the contrary. Industrial Capital Ships should only require Advanced Spaceship Command and not have the additional requirement of Capital Ships. Leave the Capital Ships skill for the warships and perhaps rename the skill. Also, there are only two classes of ships that require Advanced Spaceship Command. Freighters require ASC-1 and Capital Ships require ASC-5. I can see why you might want to require all jump capable ships to have ASC-5 if there are going to be large non-jump ships coming. However, if there are no other ships coming, then it makes no sense to require ASC-5 for the Rorqual. One additional thing to consider would be make the Rorqual tank like a beast when it is in deployed mode while reducing its tanking while not deployed. After all, the Rorqual in deployed mode would be in its "natural" state. Hopefully, the ship model will reflect this. Not only would this would encourage players to deploy the ship during operations, but it would create interesting challenges on both sides if discovered by hostiles. For example, the hostiles would have to decide between trying to overpower the tank and camping the ship waiting for the possibility that the Stront will run out. I'm assuming that the Rorqual's drones are only for personal defense and are not expected to be used to aid the barges under its command. Given that the Rorqual is expected to be in deployed mode during an op, pulling in can from a great distance, its drones will often be out of range of the barges. If the ship is supposed to be able to defend the barges, then it needs a drone bonus more suitable to that task or the ability to assign.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.08.15 19:31:00 - [448] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Nyphur 2) Can compressed ore be removed from the bay and transported in a normal hauler? Also, can it be refined by someone else in a station? (This may have been answered but I didn't see the answer). Yes and yes. I take it from the fact that you skipped question 1 and went straight to number 2 that either you don't know the answer or the answer is yes and you're not permitted to share game balance change information of upcoming patches outside the scope of the current discussion. I'm hoping it's the first case and will wait for an answer if you're allowed to give one. My question was whether or not mineral compression via building items like passive targetters was being nerfed with the patch or if it's a separate issue that is not being changed. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Clansworth Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.15 20:22:00 - [449] I would just like to point out a small tidbit that seems to be getting lost. This ship does have great capabilities, I, as a mining director, especially like the ability to fit multiple links, and of course, get the bonus to effectiveness of them. However, there is no high-sec version of this capability. Command Ships are able to use their warfare link bonus for their specific role anywhere, but mining foreman are stuck out in low-sec and null-sec to get the most from their leadership skills? We really need an ORE command ship equivelant. Something that will get some of the leadership bonus of this cap ship, the ability to fit multiple links, and I'm realy not sure what else to tell you the truth. A mediocre tank, something a little better than a hulk. Seems ORE skipped a step fitting their nice fancy mining computers on the cap ship, without testing them out on a small platform first. Check out my prospector ship class in my sig to see what I am talking about. Cap ships are well and good, but mining foreman souldn't have to be masterful pilots to run a mining op effeciently. Prospector Class
weighd Gallente Orion Ore International Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.15 20:40:00 - [450] I may have miss read something but in the revamping of the Ice Harvesters link, is it going to change from reducing time and go to reducing cap? I'm all for the time reduction don't have a problem with cap. -------------------- Jaxon Rome > ***** is underated for all the good things it does! helps you lose weight....helps get rid of pesky possesions and family.....
Angela Toren Amarr Toren Shipyards	Posted - 2007.08.16 00:08:00 - [451] Edited by: Angela Toren on 16/08/2007 00:12:10 For those whining about it's defence/lack of offense you have to understand thats the trade off. Everything in EVE must have a risk vs reward or it is not balanced. If you want a deep space 'optimus-prime' mining platform that can jump over gate camps, store ships, store mods, provide fittings, give command bonuses, clone your mining pals, tractor beam mining cans from 200km AND compress your ore then there has to be a trade-off else its not balanced. Do you ever go mining in 0.0 or very low sec in just a mining barge alone? Just because this ship is capital it doesn't mean it has to be a solopwnmobile. All capital ships require support and thats how it should always be. Also I want to add; to prevent this ship from being placed at a pos as nothing more than a compressor I would suggest possibly one more deep space industrial use, bonus or ability for it so its encouraged to be used in belts as by design. Maybe change the drone damage bonus to a mining drone yield bonus for it and the whole gang?
Artmedis Valben Gallente Lobster of Babel	Posted - 2007.08.16 00:10:00 - [452] Laser Optimation (renamed?) will reduce cycles for all kinds of mining (ice and gas also) Ice Harvesting (renamed) will reduce cap on all kinds of mining turrets Drone Co-Ordination (renamed) will increase range on all kinds of turrets Cap and Range may have +3% per level base and cycles will keep their -2% per level base adjustment. ___________________________________________ Selling PERFECT PRINTS of almost all seeded BPOs. Lobster of Babel currently holds 671 of the 728 Tech 1 BPOs seeded. 7 ships and Capital are missing.
weighd Gallente Orion Ore International Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.16 02:44:00 - [453] Thnx Artmedis Valben -------------------- Jaxon Rome > ***** is underated for all the good things it does! helps you lose weight....helps get rid of pesky possesions and family.....
Andrus Delai e X i l e FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.16 03:39:00 - [454] Originally by: Artmedis Valben Laser Optimation (renamed?) will reduce cycles for all kinds of mining (ice and gas also) Ice Harvesting (renamed) will reduce cap on all kinds of mining turrets Drone Co-Ordination (renamed) will increase range on all kinds of turrets Cap and Range may have +3% per level base and cycles will keep their -2% per level base adjustment. I can't see any use in reducing the cap use of mining lasers. That one should be changed.
Clorthos Gallente Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.08.16 05:20:00 - [455] more ship maint bay please, need some room for clone jump hulks
Lougra Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.16 06:33:00 - [456] Originally by: Angela Toren Edited by: Angela Toren on 16/08/2007 00:12:10 For those whining about it's defence/lack of offense you have to understand thats the trade off. Everything in EVE must have a risk vs reward or it is not balanced. We have to pay 2.000.000isk for a bpo which cannot be found in empire. That bpo can build a ship which takes ore equivalent of bc while the bc bpos costs 340m for tier 2 bc and can be bought in empire. That ship cannot tank even rats in empire, you can destroy it even if you equip a cheap frigate with t1 cheap guns, and when i mine i have to warp back to station every 6 mins to store my mined ore, OR ore thieves wating for me to launch can, OR ccp expecting me to buy a new account to use it as hauler. Even if i get a 2nd account, every belt in "safe space" is ripped out because of mms. Even at this case, im not able to get more than 1-2m within an hour while ratters getting EVERYTHING. This is the ballance? This is the risk vs reward? I got all the risk. Where is the my reward? Carebear is the surname that you got, if you enjoy to play eve, in other way than the rest want YOU to play it.
DigsDirt	Posted - 2007.08.16 08:39:00 - [457] Waaay too many posts to read each response, but I imagine this has been mentioned before (not a *** or a compliment, just a partialed question!): Account #1 I trained one pilot to be an Command Ship pilot (Claymore), thru Mining Director V and with the Mining Foreman Mindlink Implant, etc. and associated Link Module skills to assist the massive MO's in speed, tanking, etc. Account #2 I trained one pilot to be the miner (duh). Exhumer V, the entire Industrial tree to IV or V (IV for each ore specialization), etc. The obvious intent, and per the skill tree, the characters compliment each other. One is for the gang MO Bonus's and the other the miner. Of course, if you examine the skill tree you will see the paths are designed to be complimentary - two characters working in tandum, as it should be, it order to maximize efficiency. This theme is repleat through out Eve, and with good reason (and success! Kudos!) Looking at the ORE Cap ship mentioned, I can only PRAY that it is the miners** that are expected to have the skills for using the ore compressor and NOT the ORE Cap ship pilot. Obviously my opinion is somewhat tainted, but not irresponsibly I believe. I KNOW I'm speaking ignorant of the actual ship application and usage, which may already be fully disclosed, so my question/opinion may be a waste of typing but: 1. Will other pilots operate the refinery for compression, which appears natural in flow -or- 2. Is the Ore cap ship pilot expected to operate the refinery? If #1, that makes complete sense. If #2 it means that in order to take full advantage of the ship, either a miner must train along the gang control route for the link modules (such as leverage by the command ship pilots) or it means the command ship pilots will need to learn mining skills in order to provide their gang link module skills. If someone has a little more info on this / thoughts, I would sincerly be interested. THANKS! (again, sorry if this was previously well covered)
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.16 09:16:00 - [458] All of this is covered in this post somewhere. The answer is basicly Both. You need mining skills and command skills to fly this ship. Originally by: DigsDirt Waaay too many posts to read each response, but I imagine this has been mentioned before (not a *** or a compliment, just a partialed question!): Account #1 I trained one pilot to be an Command Ship pilot (Claymore), thru Mining Director V and with the Mining Foreman Mindlink Implant, etc. and associated Link Module skills to assist the massive MO's in speed, tanking, etc. Account #2 I trained one pilot to be the miner (duh). Exhumer V, the entire Industrial tree to IV or V (IV for each ore specialization), etc. The obvious intent, and per the skill tree, the characters compliment each other. One is for the gang MO Bonus's and the other the miner. Of course, if you examine the skill tree you will see the paths are designed to be complimentary - two characters working in tandum, as it should be, it order to maximize efficiency. This theme is repleat through out Eve, and with good reason (and success! Kudos!) Looking at the ORE Cap ship mentioned, I can only PRAY that it is the miners** that are expected to have the skills for using the ore compressor and NOT the ORE Cap ship pilot. Obviously my opinion is somewhat tainted, but not irresponsibly I believe. I KNOW I'm speaking ignorant of the actual ship application and usage, which may already be fully disclosed, so my question/opinion may be a waste of typing but: 1. Will other pilots operate the refinery for compression, which appears natural in flow -or- 2. Is the Ore cap ship pilot expected to operate the refinery? If #1, that makes complete sense. If #2 it means that in order to take full advantage of the ship, either a miner must train along the gang control route for the link modules (such as leverage by the command ship pilots) or it means the command ship pilots will need to learn mining skills in order to provide their gang link module skills. If someone has a little more info on this / thoughts, I would sincerly be interested. THANKS! (again, sorry if this was previously well covered)
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.16 10:21:00 - [459] Originally by: DigsDirt 1. Will other pilots operate the refinery for compression, which appears natural in flow -or- 2. Is the Ore cap ship pilot expected to operate the refinery? Only the capital pilot can operate the refinery. ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering
Clansworth Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.16 21:04:00 - [460] This is something that realy should change... If it uses the manufacturing interface, why can't it be public/corp/whatever like the POS factories? This would greatly improve the usefullness, and allow people to specialize in a certain PART of the operation, instead of one guy having to have ALL the skills. Prospector Class
Elementatia Caldari Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.08.17 07:47:00 - [461] Hi guys ! By the way one question about mining future: ---> What is the nature of system wide asteroid belts. And what is the difference for miners compared to now ? And one remark to the "give miners love !" developement. --> The devs and all we players focus mainly on how to mine and what to get out of mining. That¦s ok. It¦s the main point of our view and it has to be. BUT ! We also do play to expirience fun, to expirience a story. I do miss this in mining. Right now there is only a "flat" story in the miners business. Flat Story "Verldspar is the most common mineral..." Better Story: (copy from Wikipedia and adapted for eve) "Feldspar is the name of a group of rock-forming minerals which makes up more than 60% of all known asteroid belts. Feldspars crystallize from magma, and they can also occur as compact minerals, as veins, and are also present in many types of metamorphic rock. The use of veldspar in shipconsturction is based on ...and needed because of. The mineral is especially known for it¦s good...." Maybe you could include those kind of deeper descriptions to the types of ore and to the mining lasers (how lasers get the ore out of the roids...)
Joyfull Death	Posted - 2007.08.17 07:50:00 - [462] I can¦t await to get the new baby in my hands. I got nice gang assist bonuses, but I think that one thing is missing. A capital veldspar miner. Some of the big roids (140k and more) are in the need of such a specialized miner that have a 200% or 300% bouns to the t2 stripminer. One of it will be nice, because your trained industry skills will have an direct affect. Otherwise you are nothing else than a big hangar that give bonuses to the gang. It is great to the gang, but as a miner you want to see roids disappear by your miner power. One of such a capital miner will be great. Fly save
albert jan LEAP Corp	Posted - 2007.08.17 10:07:00 - [463] is there a way for me to get into this ship on the sisi server (since i don't have the skills for it yet but i want to try it out before i go all out for the skills..) anyone able to boost my skills on sisi (or rather wich GM do i contact to make this happen ?)
Sanddor	Posted - 2007.08.17 12:48:00 - [464] Is the capital ore ship confined to low sec only? Sanddor
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.17 13:41:00 - [465] Some informatoin that would be really nice : 1 - When does this come out. Any ETA would be good. 2 - How much does the Ship BPO cost ? 3 - What are the skill req's for the Capital Tractor Beam ?
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2007.08.17 14:39:00 - [466] Originally by: Elementatia Maybe you could include those kind of deeper descriptions to the types of ore and to the mining lasers (how lasers get the ore out of the roids...) The lasers working is partially explained in the story about the mining drones: http://www.eve-online.com/background/potw/dec02.asp At least I suppose they use the same technology, with lasers perhaps being more advanced. What I'd like to see is more use for those fake ores. "Fools gneiss" and such. Perhaps requiring Astrogeology to recognize them for what they are. Would be fitting in the story as well, IMO. Currently, any newborn can differentiate every ore and it's fake counterpart.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.17 14:55:00 - [467] When does this come out. Any ETA would be good. Revelations 2.2 slated for end of august. How much does the Ship BPO cost? 3 billion What are the skill req's for the Capital Tractor Beam ? graviton physics 4.

Apertotes Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.17 16:02:00 - [468] Edited by: Apertotes on 17/08/2007 16:09:07 Chronotis, i am very worried about the skills needed to usufully fly this ship. you are mixing two skill careers that in my opinion should not be mixed. EVE already is very steep for new players, and the only way to compete is specialization. this ship achieves really the opposite. commanders will need to train industrial skills which will be completely useless on any other ship they fly or activity they engage. meanwhile, industrial chars will need to train leadership skills just for this one ship, skills that wont do any good for them on any other activity they may do. i think CCP hasnt looked very closely the situation. before the gang upgrade (or downgrade), any player in the gang could boost his mates. then you introduced the mining leadership skills. the first one - mining foreman - was useful for everybody, since it inmediatly boosted mining amount of everybody on the gang. thus, many miners trained that skill. the second mining leadership skill - mining director - was a slap in the face for dedicated miners, since it only worked on BCs, meaning that any mining gang needed a non-barge ship if it wanted a full bonus. but in the end we swallowed it up, and convinced our BC mates to train that skill (which required mining foreman 5, something that many of the miners already had, so it didnt boost mining any more). after some discussions, we convinced commanders (now completely dedicated because of the fleet upgrade) to train those mining leadership skills, even though many of them felt there were many more important skills to train. and now, CCP wants them to train industrial skills. i dont think many commanders will waste 2 or 3 months of training time for a capital winrar. and if they do, it will screw them a lot. commanders (even more those on capital ships) already have a huge career (skillpoints wise) and i dont think opening a whole new training tree for them will make them happy. on the other side, i do not think that any industrial char (who usually have low perc and willp) will want to train all the way to capital ships and add on top of that enough leaderships skills so that it'll be worth to use one precious fleet boost position with this ship. and of course, forget about his mining career, since this ship doesnt mine. anyway you look at it, i think you are mixing 2 very deep and different careers, making a new one, with huge skill necessities, and only able to use one ship and do one thing. please, think about, and at least let gang mates operate the compression machine when docked or near the rorqual, so that the pilot doesnt need to train all those industrial skills that for sure 90% of its gang mates will already have trained.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.17 17:46:00 - [469] Update The industrial core fuel use and industrial reconfiguration bonus has been changed in light of some changes to the assemblyline use which I will talk more about early next week. Summary info is below: Regarding the Industrial Core I The Industrial Core has a duration of 5 minutes and a base fuel consumption of 1000 heavy water modified by the Industrial Reconfiguration skill (-50 heavy water per lvl) and -5% per level of capital industrial ships skill so with maximum skills reduces this to 563 heavy water per 5 minutes.

Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.17 18:35:00 - [470] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Update The industrial core fuel use and industrial reconfiguration bonus has been changed in light of some changes to the assemblyline use which I will talk more about early next week. Summary info is below: Regarding the Industrial Core I The Industrial Core has a duration of 5 minutes and a base fuel consumption of 1000 heavy water modified by the Industrial Reconfiguration skill (-50 heavy water per lvl) and -5% per level of capital industrial ships skill so with maximum skills reduces this to 563 heavy water per 5 minutes. heh, I hear many people clapping their small hands ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Speedup IGB table rendering
Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.17 18:52:00 - [471] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Update The industrial core fuel use and industrial reconfiguration bonus has been changed in light of some changes to the assemblyline use which I will talk more about early next week. Summary info is below: Regarding the Industrial Core I The Industrial Core has a duration of 5 minutes and a base fuel consumption of 1000 heavy water modified by the Industrial Reconfiguration skill (-50 heavy water per lvl) and -5% per level of capital industrial ships skill so with maximum skills reduces this to 563 heavy water per 5 minutes. oh...hell...yes... /me dances This post has received the Borgholio Seal of ApprovalÖ. ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!
ChowChow	Posted - 2007.08.17 21:19:00 - [472] Please include ice compression in the patch, some of us do mine 0.0 ice as a career choice u know :-)
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.17 21:45:00 - [473] Originally by: ChowChow Please include ice compression in the patch, some of us do mine 0.0 ice as a career choice u know :-) uhmmm, it can already compress ice ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Speedup IGB table rendering
scotayne hawkins	Posted - 2007.08.17 22:21:00 - [474] been dreaming of this blog for years now massive thanks to the dev's who've finally got it out here with a release date. signed every serious mining gang in EvE
Karanth Gallente Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2007.08.18 00:17:00 - [475] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Update The industrial core fuel use and industrial reconfiguration bonus has been changed in light of some changes to the assemblyline use which I will talk more about early next week. Summary info is below: Regarding the Industrial Core I The Industrial Core has a duration of 5 minutes and a base fuel consumption of 1000 heavy water modified by the Industrial Reconfiguration skill (-50 heavy water per lvl) and -5% per level of capital industrial ships skill so with maximum skills reduces this to 563 heavy water per 5 minutes. Now Heavy Water has a use, and unless Eris comes up with something (or another sig mod ) you are now my god. All hail Chronotis! Free beer for those who mod my sig! There is only one sig hijack that matters, the orginal and only member of the hijack squad. me. -Eris. ps Black russians are better then beer. I'll see your beer, and raise you a goat kebab -Tirg I'll take that pint and raise you two -Timmeh I bet 2 goats, 1 pint and a bag of slugs -Lordharold I grab it all, cook it/eat and drink it all and say thank you. -Pirlouit I'll call your bluff, and go all in on 3 locks of Hutch's hair. -Incognus I'll see that bet, depending on where the hair came from. -Rauth pushes the other mods out of the way Mmmm, bree - Karass Bree & goat kebabs!!! I'm in!! - Yips IT WAS ME, MUHAHAHA. -Hango How did I miss free BREE!!? -Kaemonn always fashionably late - Deckard Better late than never! -Sahwoolo
Redback911 Malevolent Intentions Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.08.18 10:48:00 - [476] Originally by: Chruker Originally by: ChowChow Please include ice compression in the patch, some of us do mine 0.0 ice as a career choice u know :-) uhmmm, it can already compress ice Please read where he says the ice compression may be delayed before trolling.
Qelen Seastrider Rubycom Matrix United Corporations Of Modern Eve	Posted - 2007.08.18 13:14:00 - [477] The new ship sounds nice. It fails of being spectacular because of its narrow purposed usage. And speaking of that, what happened to logical progression? I'm speaking of ssomething in between the Hulk and this behemoth-sized flying moon? It's the same thing as on the freighter side of things- you have industrial haulers up to 8 or 9 k m3 and then it jumps straight to freighters at 800k m3 or so. Does it make any sense at all that humanity would have left that huge gap? I say NO! If you want logic and sense to rule EVE, then create a 'regional bulk hauler' of around 125k ( that fits one general freight container) and something like a heavy mining platform to match. Make it capable of mounting 4-5 strip miners and carrying a base 50k of ore. That's your really useful mining ship- something that can mine decent amounts of low-sec ores and carry it back to a refinery, without having to use a jetcan. = = = D = A = R = K = S = I = D = E == Q = = = = Qelen Seastrider /\ CEO
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.08.18 15:41:00 - [478] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Update The industrial core fuel use and industrial reconfiguration bonus has been changed in light of some changes to the assemblyline use which I will talk more about early next week. Summary info is below: Regarding the Industrial Core I The Industrial Core has a duration of 5 minutes and a base fuel consumption of 1000 heavy water modified by the Industrial Reconfiguration skill (-50 heavy water per lvl) and -5% per level of capital industrial ships skill so with maximum skills reduces this to 563 heavy water per 5 minutes. I was JUST writing an article about how the strontium use of the Rorqual makes it useless for compressing lowends and you pull this out of your hat :). Good show. Is there anything to be said for increasing compression rates for lowends a bit more so they can be compressed for transport into 0.0 a bit more easily? And how about looking some more at making it desirable to place this ship in an asteroid belt? I am absolutely serious in saying that I want to be literally forced to put this in a belt to get any benefit. I don't even want industrial mode to work outside of a belt. I was looking at your reasons behind not having a POS shield type bubble and I can see why they would be a stumbling block but it's not an unsurmountable problem. Could you not force the ship to be within 10km of an asteroid in order to go into deployed mode? After all, if it's going to become an industrial platform, surely it has to anchor itself on something. Make it so that you have to target two asteroids and then hit the industrial core button. It would shoot out a tractor beam style beam to those asteroids, throw up a target scattering field on them so they can't be targetted and enter industrial mode. Once in industrial mode, it could expand its shields out like a POS. Make the industrial core not function in deadspace and give it a bonus to shield strength. That POS bubble shield it emits would be the Rorqual's actual shields and you would have to make it so that the field would disappear if the Rorqual dropped below say 25% shield. You wouldn't need the remote shield transfer bonus any more, of course, and the bubble COULD be used as a staging area for defence of the mining gang if hostiles showed up, as well it should be. So using my idea, the industrial mode only works in an asteroid belt (thus forcing it to be deployed to gain benefit from it), it puts a heavy emphasis on defence of the mining gang and it rules out all possible abuses of the shield bubble. Can you see any gaping flaws in my idea that I may have missed? I'm getting the feeling, however, that you're in the unenviable position of having predetermined all of the mechanics behind the ship and only being allowed to work with balance. That would mean that no matter how well anyone argues for it, the POS bubble idea would never make it into the game. That's a little disheartening if it's true.. is it true? Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.08.18 15:42:00 - [479] Originally by: Qelen Seastrider The new ship sounds nice. It fails of being spectacular because of its narrow purposed usage. And speaking of that, what happened to logical progression? I'm speaking of ssomething in between the Hulk and this behemoth-sized flying moon? It's the same thing as on the freighter side of things- you have industrial haulers up to 8 or 9 k m3 and then it jumps straight to freighters at 800k m3 or so. Does it make any sense at all that humanity would have left that huge gap? I say NO! If you want logic and sense to rule EVE, then create a 'regional bulk hauler' of around 125k ( that fits one general freight container) and something like a heavy mining platform to match. Make it capable of mounting 4-5 strip miners and carrying a base 50k of ore. That's your really useful mining ship- something that can mine decent amounts of low-sec ores and carry it back to a refinery, without having to use a jetcan. Your argument doesn't apply at all because the Rorqual actually has virtually no mining ability. It's not the same as the difference between a hauler and a freighter. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Amateratsu Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.18 16:33:00 - [480] I have to agree with Nyphur Having now seen this ship transforming into its industrail mode, Defence of the Rorqual and the mining op is a major issue. even if you have scouts watching the stargates, hostile gangs will have more than enough time to locate and lock down the ship before it can get out of deployed mode and jump to safty. Cuttently this ship is only gonna be useful to larger corps and alliance's who can mount a large fleet of combat ships to patrol and defend the Rorqual and a mining op. Smaller corps will not have the resources to mount such a large mining op let alone defend itself in hostile territory. Give us a reason to put this beast into a belt. a 25% gang mining bonus is not enough to justify the risk of putting a 2 billion isk (virtually defenceless) ship into a locked down position.
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.18 17:07:00 - [481] Im not 100% sure I agree. Asuming that the enemy catch's you exactly the time you enter seige. The enemy has 5 mins to do the following : Find what system you are mining in. Find what belt you are in. Find and defeat the guards (if any). Tackle the Rorqual. Wait for cavalry. If your scouts are 2-3 jumps out you will be just fine. It will simply take too long to find you. If we assume a more average scenario then the Rorqual will have 3 mins left on its Core Tap when the enemy is sighted. Chances are the enemy wont be able to find you in that time, and if they do your 1 escort ship should stop them. I'd probably fit with a Large Energy Disruptor on one of the high slots. Anything that could potentialy Warp Scramble you will be doing it from within the range of the Disruptor, you'll nail his cap and then warp off. If he's got a faction WS then you overheat your ED a little bit to nab him, or use drones. Not a beat-everything proposition surely, but still quite viable. Wont work against 'Dictors or those Galente Force Recons, but you cant make an omlette without breaking a few eggs. Not to mention that Tech 2 Drones are mean, especially with a damage bonus. 95% of the time that will buy you the time you need to get out. I'm with Nyphur though - I dont ever want to see this thing idling at a damned pos. What an exploit. Ruins the entire risk vs. reward dynamic of the game. If your not happy with low ends though just make Super-Dense versions of Veld and Scord available in 0.0 and you will solve a lot of problems.
Lorran Arras	Posted - 2007.08.18 17:32:00 - [482] Edited by: Lorran Arras on 18/08/2007 17:33:15 sry all you complain about is you cant go solo in it. there will be 1 guy who opens the cyno for you and then you ask nicely the carrier pilot from next door if he likes to rat there and provide cover if needed. dont see the problem.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.08.18 19:56:00 - [483] Actually, if this thing can use a prototype cloak, it may be a lot safer in a belt than people give it credit for. I touched on this on my website today, where I wrote an article on the Rorqual. It's not the most comprehensive article as I was in a bit of a hurry and I deliberately avoided using a lot of stats to argue about it since the stats aren't finalised. My main point is that I'd like to know exactly what the motivation is behind the Rorqual and what EXACT roles it's supposed to be fulfilling. Is it meant to replace mineral compression? Is it meant to defend a fleet of miners against NPCs? Is it meant to tank an npc spawn? Is it meant to kill an npc spawn? Is it meant to defend a fleet of miners against roaming gangs of players? Is it meant to effectively be a jump-freighter for minerals? Is it meant to localise mineral aquisition? Is it meant to promote mineral aquisition through mining? Is it meant to replace a battlecruiser with mining gang mods? Is it meant to extend the range of efficient 0.0 mining to systems outside the immediate vicinity of an outpost? Is it meant to sneak into 0.0 and set up a mining op? is it supposed to support non-barge mining ships? (Like the cruisers with a mining yield bonus) How many covetors is it supposed to support in a gang? How many hours of ore from that gang is it supposed to hold when compressed? It it supposed to jump-haul the compressed ore to a nearby refinery? There are plenty of questions, but not many answers on the core design ethos for the Rorqual. Exactly what individual roles is it supposed to fill? Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Lady Darksaber J.I.T. Enterprises	Posted - 2007.08.18 22:11:00 - [484] not sure if someone posted this allready ..but here is a Youtue vid i found of the new ORE ship http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKGqZIlRvEE LD www.eve-icsc.com
ByFstugan Northern Shadowrunners FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.18 22:56:00 - [485] Edited by: ByFstugan on 18/08/2007 22:57:24 Thanks darksaber, but I found two better clips with the ship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI9SOpB2Sms http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ5l7Ahup0M enjoy _______________________________ The wise knows what he knows not.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.08.19 00:28:00 - [486] Originally by: ByFstugan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI9SOpB2Sms enjoy Transformers! More than meets the eye. Transformers! Freighters in disguise. :D Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
dragonofearth	Posted - 2007.08.19 02:19:00 - [487] when will they bring the ship to test server so it can be tested out pls do this and give us the skill needed to fly would be nice
Drendid'Toout	Posted - 2007.08.19 10:26:00 - [488] the ship is available in sisi
Amateratsu Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.19 11:17:00 - [489] Typical, just as my accounts on sisi are disabled again due to a bug deactivating etc accounts during sisi's DT
DPSLogistics Mike	Posted - 2007.08.19 13:39:00 - [490] The ship has been removed from the market on sisi for some reason
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2007.08.19 14:04:00 - [491] Somehow the ship reminds me of the Tiberium refinery in CnC (Renegade). Or a control tower, though I've not really seen many of them.
Fastercart Gallente Ihatalo Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.08.20 03:40:00 - [492] Originally by: ByFstugan Edited by: ByFstugan on 18/08/2007 22:57:24 Thanks darksaber, but I found two better clips with the ship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI9SOpB2Sms http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ5l7Ahup0M enjoy "Oh, my God. It's Mega Maid. She's gone from suck to blow." - Spaceballs
ByFstugan Northern Shadowrunners FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.20 11:22:00 - [493] Originally by: Fastercart "Oh, my God. It's Mega Maid. She's gone from suck to blow." - Spaceballs ROFL _______________________________ The wise knows what he knows not.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2007.08.20 12:59:00 - [494] Originally by: Montaire Im not 100% sure I agree. Asuming that the enemy catch's you exactly the time you enter seige. The enemy has 5 mins to do the following : Find what system you are mining in. Find what belt you are in. Find and defeat the guards (if any). Tackle the Rorqual. Wait for cavalry. Keeping in mind that I hardly have the skills to fit a Civilian Gatling Laser on my Hulk... Wouldn't just a few dictor bubbles keep the Ror in place for a while? Help me help you .

Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.20 13:28:00 - [495] Chronotis I noticed that the blueprint for Compressed Rich Plagioclase requires 33000 units of ore, where the blueprint for the two other variants of plagioclase requires 33300 units of ore. ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Speedup IGB table rendering
mamba mo	Posted - 2007.08.20 13:40:00 - [496] Originally by: Chribba Keeping in mind that I hardly have the skills to fit a Civilian Gatling Laser on my Hulk... Wouldn't just a few dictor bubbles keep the Ror in place for a while? 1) you cant fit civilan gatling lasers on a hulk =P 2)you need anchoring 2, Propulsion Jamming Level 4 to drop a med bubble an small ones are jus useless 3) if you deploy a few km away from the warp in spot they have still gota fight thew the guads( if any ) and drones an a swarp of T2's are deadly to get to you and the ror can still bring in cans from the gang using the capital tractors.
Oarwin	Posted - 2007.08.20 14:03:00 - [497] I have a question about the large ship assembly array. The info of this module is this: A mobile assembly facility where large ships such as Battleships, Carriers, Dreadnoughts and Freighters can be manufactured. Base time multiplier: 0.75 Base material multiplier: 1 (Note: To use a ship from a Ship Assembly Array a Ship Maintenance Array with enough free storage space needs to be in range that the ship can be moved there) My question: Will this module be changed and be able to also produce the Rorqual?

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2007.08.20 14:13:00 - [498] Originally by: Oarwin I have a question about the large ship assembly array. The info of this module is this: A mobile assembly facility where large ships such as Battleships, Carriers, Dreadnoughts and Freighters can be manufactured. Base time multiplier: 0.75 Base material multiplier: 1 (Note: To use a ship from a Ship Assembly Array a Ship Maintenance Array with enough free storage space needs to be in range that the ship can be moved there) My question: Will this module be changed and be able to also produce the Rorqual? It doesn't need to be changed, it already is capable of producing it unless ccp nerfed that in the past 2 days. Help me help you .

Oarwin	Posted - 2007.08.20 14:15:00 - [499] Ok thanks
mamba mo	Posted - 2007.08.20 14:30:00 - [500] is the ror being limited to low sec?
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.20 14:42:00 - [501] Originally by: mamba mo is the ror being limited to low sec? no it can go into 0.0 too ;-) ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Speedup IGB table rendering
mamba mo	Posted - 2007.08.20 18:26:00 - [502] nice, i cant wait for this new toy, the ore compesion will make hauling so much easyer an i HATE hauling ore!
Riame	Posted - 2007.08.20 19:14:00 - [503] Part of this things animation is it turning on its side??? This is space, who cares what SIDE its on! Also, this thing is being made for wandering gangs, nomad miners, but can't mine itself? Why not give it the ability to fly a Fighter equivilent to miner drones? If a fighter is the equivilent of a small battleship, why not give miners the equivilent of a procurer? It seems if this enormous capital class ship is serving as a gathering point for mining operations, providing bonuses and whatnot, it should be able to do some of its own pulling in as well. Otherwise, its basically a freighter for mining ops only, which seems a strange specificity to roll with. Why not make a combat specific freighter too then? And again, this thing jumps into a system, sets up shop, and people clone jump to it and hop out in Hulks... THEN what? They dock and have to wait 24 hours before jumping back? Unless this thing can open jump bridges, your looking at alot of stranded stragglers.
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.08.20 20:46:00 - [504] I'm with Nyphur, the POS shield would be a great idea and a much needed addition to 0.0 and lo-sec mining. It would be a great catalyst for decent combat at mining ops and would add the security that many miners desire (like a big electro-magnetic security blanket). However, I'm of the opinion that by the time CCP announce details on any feature it's pretty much set in stone to the point where anything beyond tweaking the numbers is beyond consideration (for example the POS changes and the community spotting many of the issues long before release). In addition we're probably too close to release for such a huge change. Can we has it for tier 2 please? Or a specialized ship for the purpose. Or both.
SiliconWolf	Posted - 2007.08.20 23:51:00 - [505] I'd like to see another new set of skills: Interconnectivity Mining Interconnectivity Obviously, Interconnectivity would be a base skill used to interconnect all sorts of equipment. Mining interconnectivity would provide a connection between mining equipment. I'd like to see something like this: level 1: using the roid scanner will cause ore amounts normally found in ore scan window to display on all locked roids (on main window) level 2: Ore scanner must be present, but no longer needs manual activation. level 3: displayed ore amounts UPDATE based on how much you pull in level 4: auto-calucaltes room left in cargohold and ends lazer cycle at perfect moment if not enough room for whole amount. level 5: auto-calculates remaining ore in roid and automatically ends lazer cycle at the exact moment roid runs out of ore. P.S. Interconnectivity could be a base skill for a new smartbomb skill! Interconnected Smartbombs! Each level reduces damage to non-hostile targets by 20% (to a maximum of 100% reduction), and increases damage to hostile targets by 3%
mamba mo Caldari griffin Star productions Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.21 00:25:00 - [506] Originally by: SiliconWolf I'd like to see another new set of skills: Interconnectivity Mining Interconnectivity Obviously, Interconnectivity would be a base skill used to interconnect all sorts of equipment. Mining interconnectivity would provide a connection between mining equipment. I'd like to see something like this: level 1: using the roid scanner will cause ore amounts normally found in ore scan window to display on all locked roids (on main window) level 2: Ore scanner must be present, but no longer needs manual activation. level 3: displayed ore amounts UPDATE based on how much you pull in level 4: auto-calucaltes room left in cargohold and ends lazer cycle at perfect moment if not enough room for whole amount. level 5: auto-calculates remaining ore in roid and automatically ends lazer cycle at the exact moment roid runs out of ore. P.S. Interconnectivity could be a base skill for a new smartbomb skill! Interconnected Smartbombs! Each level reduces damage to non-hostile targets by 20% (to a maximum of 100% reduction), and increases damage to hostile targets by 3% i think this is a verry good!! idea and would be a nice skill to have but the smart bomb bit isent so good the whole point of it is that it mofos everything around you my other ride has a image
Amateratsu Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.21 07:09:00 - [507] Originally by: SiliconWolf level 5: auto-calculates remaining ore in roid and automatically ends lazer cycle at the exact moment roid runs out of ore. I like this idea ALOT, altho you should not require extra skills to achive this. I believe it would also be very easy to implement... At the beginning of each mining cycle a small calculation is made to see how much ore is left in the asteroid, If for example the asteroid has 10% of the miners mining yield remaining in it, simply reduce the cycle time temporarilly, so that the mining cycle ends when the ore has been depleted. when the cycle completes normal mechanics then kick in, asteroid pops, cycle time is reset to normal. There is nothing more annoying than to spend a 3 miniute cycle only to see the roid pop and return a fraction of your yield This would significantly improve mining efficiency and would be worth far more than a 25% bonus to mining links effectiveness. especially in empire mining low ends where the asteroids pop 19 to the dosen
Friedrich IX Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.08.21 07:38:00 - [508] same as the previous post sayd. --- Hadean Drive Yards

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.21 08:52:00 - [509] Originally by: Chruker Chronotis I noticed that the blueprint for Compressed Rich Plagioclase requires 33000 units of ore, where the blueprint for the two other variants of plagioclase requires 33300 units of ore. already fixed internally, but if you spot any more oddities like that, please add them to bug reports. Always appreciated!


CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.21 09:25:00 - [510] Some Discussion In the future I think decoupling the survey/cargo scanner bonus from the industrial core will be fine as there is little purpose to its bonus being attached to the industrial mode. Operating the Rorqual in belt is very viable as much of the operation can be done outside of industrial mode. Whether you are simply tanking the spawns, healing a hulk which is tanking the spawn (not that its really needed with most low/null sec spawns), or sat 100km above the belt only decloaking when needed to tractor in cans. Even if a hostile enters local and your in industrial mode, you can still be remote assisted above your own possible shield tank which can tank around an average 5 bs gang and that's even if the attackers have enough neuts or dictors to keep you in place before you can jump away. Discussion on other possible features Venturing into the realm of concept and the pos bubble idea, even if we added some attribute like only deployable within 100km of an asteroid field beacon. Its still too dangerous to add to a mobile ship, at least for now as it not only requires extensive programming but a whole raft of undesired outcome testing as the simple ability of not targeting ships within the bubble is as powerful as it gets. Though we are not ruling out other possible ventures in future iterations (as ever with stuff, we iterate and evolve the design over time) along similar schools of thought.

Drendid'Toout	Posted - 2007.08.21 09:37:00 - [511] A new nerf for this already nerfed ship? This ship is going to be a "wannabe ship". It want to be a transport ship but isnt a good one because it cant jump as a carrier. It want to be a good mining support but its really expensive 2b for 200km tractors and some small ore compression. We dont need an "all in one ship" we want good capital ships for differents purposes
mamba mo Caldari griffin Star productions Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.21 12:53:00 - [512] Edited by: mamba mo on 21/08/2007 12:55:58 Originally by: Drendid'Toout Edited by: Drendid''Toout on 21/08/2007 09:45:35 A new nerf for this already nerfed ship? This ship is going to be a "wannabe ship". It want to be a transport ship but isnt a good one because it cant jump as a carrier, poor capacity and cant take combat ships to 0.0. It want to be a good mining support but its really expensive 2b for 200km tractors and some small ore compression. We dont need an "all in one ship" we want good capital ships for differents purposes i verry much disagree with the thought of this being a "wanna be ship". i think the ror is going to make minning opps a lot more effective becuse of its abilaty to take ore compress it an pass it on to haulers whitch means less haulers are needed an they can mine as well as this it can tank an kill npcs so no gurd is needed in friendly space whitch again leaves more room for miners meaning we can mine much bigger amounts of ore, but even so i do this it is a bit pricey for what it is an would be verry nervous about depploying this in any system that wasent compleatly coverd by my alliance at the current price even with its abilaty to cloak and carry a sizable drone armament but well done ccp this is swwet as a nut my other ride has a image
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:24:00 - [513] Rorqual just got kicked the roids. Ow. I thought it was absolutly perfect before, you'd reached just hte right balance. Now it seems to have nowhere near enough space for mining jobs. You'd reduced its capacity so it could only carry compressed ore en-masse, and that made it a great ore carrying machine. Now, its just a decent sized logistics cap ship with no overwhelming reason to be in the belt. As for your suggestion of activly having it hang out in belts, uncloaking only to tractor ore frankly thats an insult.
ByFstugan Northern Shadowrunners FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:38:00 - [514] Edited by: ByFstugan on 21/08/2007 13:44:16 Edited by: ByFstugan on 21/08/2007 13:40:04 Edited by: ByFstugan on 21/08/2007 13:38:51 Originally by: CCP Chronotis Discussion on other possible features Venturing into the realm of concept and the pos bubble idea, even if we added some attribute like only deployable within 100km of an asteroid field beacon. Its still too dangerous to add to a mobile ship, at least for now as it not only requires extensive programming but a whole raft of undesired outcome testing as the simple ability of not targeting ships within the bubble is as powerful as it gets. Though we are not ruling out other possible ventures in future iterations (as ever with stuff, we iterate and evolve the design over time) along similar schools of thought. I dunno all angels you have discussed about this, especially not internally, but it seems to me that the reason you dropped this pretty fast was, as I think someone of you said earlier, most due to the risk of exploits. Suggestion: When I gave it a fast thought it seems to me that those risk is mainly based around military activity, and should be avoided if the bubble only could be entered by industrial-kind of ships of same type as the ship's maintaince bay can hold. It would be really nice if a ship like this, with a cost like this, also could bring some safety to mining ops. Otherwise I think it risk being a "wannabe something" as suggested before. At least in my eyes concidering it¦s price. _______________________________ The wise knows what he knows not.
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:44:00 - [515] Originally by: ByFstugan Edited by: ByFstugan on 21/08/2007 13:42:03 Edited by: ByFstugan on 21/08/2007 13:40:04 Edited by: ByFstugan on 21/08/2007 13:38:51 Originally by: CCP Chronotis Discussion on other possible features Venturing into the realm of concept and the pos bubble idea, even if we added some attribute like only deployable within 100km of an asteroid field beacon. Its still too dangerous to add to a mobile ship, at least for now as it not only requires extensive programming but a whole raft of undesired outcome testing as the simple ability of not targeting ships within the bubble is as powerful as it gets. Though we are not ruling out other possible ventures in future iterations (as ever with stuff, we iterate and evolve the design over time) along similar schools of thought. I dunno all angels you have discussed about this, especially not internally, but it seems to me that the reason you dropped this pretty fast was, as I think someone of you said earlier, most due to the risk of exploits. When I gave it a fast thought it seems to me that those risk is mainly based around military activity, and should be avoided if the bubble only could be entered by industrial-kind of ships of same type as the ship's maintaince bay can hold. It would be really nice if a ship like this, with a cost like this, also could bring some safety to mining ops. Otherwise I think it risk being a "wannabe something" as suggested before. At least in my eyes concidering it¦s price. That would require hugely complicated programming.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.21 14:01:00 - [516] Originally by: Montaire Now it seems to have nowhere near enough space for mining jobs. Lets assume for now that your hulks have are using only their base 8,000m3 capacity. That means you have 8,000m3 4 space in the ship maintenance array. That you are not using any expanders on the rorqual either then your very base capacity is: Hulk cargo (8000 4) + Rorqual cargo (20,000) + Rorqual corp hanger (10,000) = 62,000m3 Average mining rate of 4 hulks in gang (1700m3 per hulk per minute) = 408,000m3 per hour. Average Compression (0.05) = 62,000 / 0.05 = 1,240,000m3 1,240,000 (+ 40,000 assembly line capacity) / 408,000 = 3.13 hours mining. And that is without using cargo expanders on the hulks or the rorqual which change that to ~5 hours capacity when planning a return trip after op and all storage within the rorqual only using hulks. Of course, you may have your own ideas about what a good storage value is, but to us at least, the above range assuming your using maxed out mining characters in your gang and having capacity for 3-5 hours mining op is very reasonable.

Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.21 14:40:00 - [517] Chronotis, Your comment is fair, and the response is appreciated. Please remember that if you have 4 hulks mining in a belt chances are you arent going to get a lot of m3 of the same mineral. There just wont be enough mins. So you will have lots of small batch's. Thus the lost "Hidden" capacity feels especially heavy. Other than that, I agree. 3-5 hours is well balanced and if thats how it works then I definatly withdraw my comments. Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Montaire Now it seems to have nowhere near enough space for mining jobs. Lets assume for now that your hulks have are using only their base 8,000m3 capacity. That means you have 8,000m3 4 space in the ship maintenance array. That you are not using any expanders on the rorqual either then your very base capacity is: Hulk cargo (8000 4) + Rorqual cargo (20,000) + Rorqual corp hanger (10,000) = 62,000m3 Average mining rate of 4 hulks in gang (1700m3 per hulk per minute) = 408,000m3 per hour. Average Compression (0.05) = 62,000 / 0.05 = 1,240,000m3 1,240,000 (+ 40,000 assembly line capacity) / 408,000 = 3.13 hours mining. And that is without using cargo expanders on the hulks or the rorqual which change that to ~5 hours capacity when planning a return trip after op and all storage within the rorqual only using hulks. Of course, you may have your own ideas about what a good storage value is, but to us at least, the above range assuming your using maxed out mining characters in your gang and having capacity for 3-5 hours mining op is very reasonable.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:01:00 - [518] Originally by: Montaire Thus the lost "Hidden" capacity feels especially heavy. Admittedly I never should have brought attention to it and left for players to figure it out after release, (my bad!). As I did mention when I first wrote about it, that it may, or may not stay in its previous form, but that was based back when the compression rates were much higher than now and the ship has been through several ongoing cycles of QA testing which revealed several exploitable loopholes with that 'feature' which would of allowed for infinite capacity as one of the more interesting effects. As with anything, we never give guarantees as things might always change for one reason or another.

Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:04:00 - [519] Thats indeed fair. I really want to find a place for this ship in the belt, really and truly. After months of sitting a POS with my carrier or seiging a POS in my dread I simply dont want to get stuck at a POS in my mining ship. Keep up the good work. Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Montaire Thus the lost "Hidden" capacity feels especially heavy. Admittedly I never should have brought attention to it and left for players to figure it out after release, (my bad!). As I did mention when I first wrote about it, that it may, or may not stay in its previous form, but that was based back when the compression rates were much higher than now and the ship has been through several ongoing cycles of QA testing which revealed several exploitable loopholes with that 'feature' which would of allowed for infinite capacity as one of the more interesting effects. As with anything, we never give guarantees as things might always change for one reason or another.
Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.21 16:46:00 - [520] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Change to maximum number of active manufacturing jobs on the rorqual The maximum number of jobs will be limited to 1 for each assembly line (2 ore compression assembly lines currently) which mean that the 'hidden capacity' I spoke about previously is no longer as generous as first advertised. Also this restriction is on the ship rather than the character as is normal with assembly line use. When you install an S&I job the materials go into limbo, which we shall call 'assembly line capacity'. On the rorqual, you are only allowed one active job per assembly line. Any installed jobs (status=in progress or ready) count as an active job so it should be impossible to queue jobs as is normally possible in station or assembly array assembly lines. In short this means that you can expect to hold ~110,000m3 of ore in the assembly lines after you finish the mining op or have bought ore for transport for example. The time you need to be in industrial mode to process all the ore is longer so the fuel use change was made to the industrial core to compensate (as stated here). What's the point of this change? Hauling minerals was too imbalanced with 640km3 of space? Can you decrease the amount of time per industrial cycle to compensate? Or maybe increase the cargo hold even further so you can load up on several jetcans of ore, warp to a POS, compress it, then warp back to the belt? ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!
Magdala Equilibrium LLC	Posted - 2007.08.21 16:50:00 - [521] Still no word on the base number of gang link mods it can run? I don't see anything in the ship description and sacrificing slots for Command Processors in order to run 3 mods just seems like asking for too much.
Deiko Quu	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:49:00 - [522] any comments on the blueprint details for the rorqual? is what is on SISI finalized? the sucker takes an obscene amount of time to research... and takes longer than a dread to build (where the dread, carrier, and freighter all had matching build times)
Quutar Caldari Auraxian Irregulars The Sundering	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:51:00 - [523] Originally by: Deiko Quu any comments on the blueprint details for the rorqual? is what is on SISI finalized? the sucker takes an obscene amount of time to research... and takes longer than a dread to build (where the dread, carrier, and freighter all had matching build times) (this is me... blah... it reset the default character on the account) Not finding research slots in Empire Space? Try Quutar Research Services.
Astrocarm Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:01:00 - [524] Edited by: Astrocarm on 21/08/2007 18:01:36 From 10 to 1 manu slot seems little harsh, granted I appricate its to fix a "feature" that was found, but now that makes this ship a little less useful. Maybe there would be a way to get around the "feature" with extra assembly lines been added through the use of a "Captial Assembly Line Module" been created for the mid slots? Similar to high slot Drone one for extra drones but this one is for extra assembly lines, If it was set at 1 slot per module could the programming not work the same way as how you have now set up the ships 1 slot currently and in doing so bypass the "feature"? Just a thought anyway.
DPSLogistics Mike	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:18:00 - [525] Drat, that hurts my plans to use this ship for the only thing that I can think itÆs useful for - compressing lowends from empire for import into 0.0 after the module compression nerf eventually happens. Oh well. Hopefully someday weÆll get something like a ôproduction coreö that letÆs you build ships and modules and ammo in this thing. Also, if you do plan on flying one of these things and sieging it in a belt, IÆd suggest that you donÆt advertise it by posting in this thread with that character. I hear rumblings of at least two pirate corps who are writing down names so that they can track you down with locator agents, bubble your butt in a belt, and paint a veldspar asteroid with the remains of your pretty little Rorqual.
Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:45:00 - [526] Originally by: DPSLogistics Mike Drat, that hurts my plans to use this ship for the only thing that I can think itÆs useful for - compressing lowends from empire for import into 0.0 after the module compression nerf eventually happens. Oh well. Hopefully someday weÆll get something like a ôproduction coreö that letÆs you build ships and modules and ammo in this thing. Also, if you do plan on flying one of these things and sieging it in a belt, IÆd suggest that you donÆt advertise it by posting in this thread with that character. I hear rumblings of at least two pirate corps who are writing down names so that they can track you down with locator agents, bubble your butt in a belt, and paint a veldspar asteroid with the remains of your pretty little Rorqual. The only way you'll find me sieging this in a belt is if I could remove it from siege immediately...rather than waiting until the end of the cycle as with carriers and dreads. I agree it's too much of a risk. Most likely I'll keep this in a belt to haul ore with the capital tractor, then warp to a POS and compress it there. Either that or I'll sit at the POS and have a regular hauler bring the ore to me, I compress it, then I jump it to the station when I'm full. ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!
Tarnia Xavian	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:45:00 - [527] As a hulk pilot and a carrier pilot I am pretty much skilled for this ship already. For the life of me, I just can't get excited about spending 2 billion isk for a 200km tractor beam. 20k cargo? You got to be kidding. Come on, CCP. We need more reward for risking these things. Give us the capital mining laser. You know you want to. Give us our big laser, and watch 0.0 blossom into the beautiful flower it can be.
Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.21 19:03:00 - [528] Originally by: Tarnia Xavian As a hulk pilot and a carrier pilot I am pretty much skilled for this ship already. For the life of me, I just can't get excited about spending 2 billion isk for a 200km tractor beam. 20k cargo? You got to be kidding. Come on, CCP. We need more reward for risking these things. Give us the capital mining laser. You know you want to. Give us our big laser, and watch 0.0 blossom into the beautiful flower it can be. I would suggest that capital mining lasers have a bonus to low-end ores and a penalty to high-end ores. For example, the laser can have a 300% bonus to veldspar yield, but only does 1/3 yield for arkonor. Why? Well low-ends are not worth mining in 0.0...which is why we have people doing mineral compression. However, if you had bonuses to the low-end ores, you could mine them in 0.0 and you wouldn't need to import anything. This would also prevent capital mining ships from destroying the market for high-end minerals, since a hulk would still mine those faster. ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!
Astrocarm Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.21 19:11:00 - [529] Originally by: Borgholio Originally by: Tarnia Xavian As a hulk pilot and a carrier pilot I am pretty much skilled for this ship already. For the life of me, I just can't get excited about spending 2 billion isk for a 200km tractor beam. 20k cargo? You got to be kidding. Come on, CCP. We need more reward for risking these things. Give us the capital mining laser. You know you want to. Give us our big laser, and watch 0.0 blossom into the beautiful flower it can be. I would suggest that capital mining lasers have a bonus to low-end ores and a penalty to high-end ores. For example, the laser can have a 300% bonus to veldspar yield, but only does 1/3 yield for arkonor. Why? Well low-ends are not worth mining in 0.0...which is why we have people doing mineral compression. However, if you had bonuses to the low-end ores, you could mine them in 0.0 and you wouldn't need to import anything. This would also prevent capital mining ships from destroying the market for high-end minerals, since a hulk would still mine those faster. Good Idea Borg, this would certainly make mining in o.o more useful, and reduce the need for compression for empire to o.o and back transport.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.08.22 01:02:00 - [530] Originally by: FireFoxx80 Originally by: Lord Nighthawk Mining barge 5 and Capital ships 4 the only ships pre-reqs? Please tell me your joking, right? *No way* should someone who can't even fly a Hulk be able to fly this. Add Exhumers 3 at minimum, although I'd say lvl 5 would be A LOT more appropriate. A brand new character that is a specialized Miner((rough Eve mon skill plan Est.)) only needs 172Days and change to fly the quintessential mining ship in the game?!?!? Albeit not all that well, but still, that doesn't sit well with me.. at all. Now add Exhumers 5 and Astrogeology 5, it becomes a slightly more reasonable 228days and change. Still seems to short, Why do I have this feeling Marco miners will be all over this. It's a T1 ship, not T2. Hence it does not require a T2 skillpath. Once we see T2 capitals though.... 172 days a quite some time. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP Quote: Why didn't we use them 80 man-years to fix bugs? Well, that's simple. We can't. These are visual ar
Sweet Majoram	Posted - 2007.08.22 06:42:00 - [531] We really need solo variants of a lot of ships. This goofy ship is one of them for sure. There's got to be a way to make it able to do some good solo mining if it was alone yet make it so it can't interact with other ships to give an unfair advantage over it's current design. Some simple modifications could do this... The solo version or some solo mode for this one could give a real heavy mining drone boost but would not be able to jetison a can or pick things up from jet cans. Strippers could be fitted in solo mode (ship bay fitting feature allready in it) but would offline if it went to cooperative mode (solo mode gives CPU bonus to strippers). It would also lock the ship hanger since nobody else would be using it in solo mode. If the same ship would be kept but solo features were added so it could do both types of things then at least a one hour cooldown would be nessisary to keep people from just switching back and forth to get the best from both worlds. In solo mode this thing should do at least as well as a hulk if not a hulk and a half... it's ability to carry lots of ore should level out the training and price half of the risk/reward ballance. Operating solo would also be quite crazy since it would only take a scout to hold on to it while everyone else comes. It should have at least a false security feature like more drone firepower and shields when in solo mode. Really though, I've got great mining skills and I'd like to do it a lot more just for a change of pace but the seperation of mining ability and cargo hold onto separate ships makes it cumbersome at best for one person. I can grab a T1 cruiser and have some fun solo-ratting or even some PVP but I can't get effective playtime solo mining even with a capital ship. I know that even solo operators would need a cyno and that's not a solo thing but for someone that doesn't mine regularly, does his own thing mostly, and is in a corp where nobody else really mines, getting a cyno there and back is really not as big of a problem as getting a 4 man mining op together at the time you want to get it. If this thing could mine as fast as 1 hulk in solo mode that would be... like 10 hours minimum to fill up? Have'nt calculated it but definately could open up a market for rent-a-cyno's to help people make their weekly trips. I'm not saying you built a bad ship there ORE/CCP, I'm just saying please don't stop with that one when the underlying needs and desires of the solo community are left unaddressed in this area.
Dr Aryandi Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2007.08.22 07:06:00 - [532] Well consider I posted asking if you had considered the hidden capacity almost immediately the ship specs were released I don't think you gave anything away. The change to use heavy water is a good one. Has anyone considered the problem of storing all the ore you are processing? i.e. the first batch of ore can be 60k m3 (or whatever) - but then once you have a hold full of compressed ore you will have steadily less and less space in which to put uncompressed ore to compress... Would it make sense to have a new storage space appear while in industrial mode (or cargo hold get bigger) to hold minerals ready to enter the compressor which then shrinks and ejects any excess when you transform back. Blueprint Research Service Available See thread for details.
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.22 08:14:00 - [533] No, we really dont. The solo part of this game is just training wheels for the multiplayer part. EVE isnt designed to feel like cold, dark place where you need friends to survive. EVE is designed TO BE a cold, dark place where you need friends to survive. Soloing is just the tutorial writ large. Originally by: Sweet Majoram We really need solo variants of a lot of ships.
mamba mo Caldari griffin Star productions Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.22 08:57:00 - [534] i also think that we should NEVER see a solo version of this apart from the fact that it is a ship suted verry well to minning opps as is a solo version will be used in gangs in richer corps and aliances so you may see 4 or 5 mining and then maby a few of the current design boosting there minning outputs an compressing ore whitch would be a major expliot in my opinion and would spoil a large part of eve. there are menny changes that could be made to make the ror better but this is by NO MEANS one of them my other ride has a image
Sweet Majoram	Posted - 2007.08.22 09:57:00 - [535] As it's been advertised so far it was intended to be for smaller nomadic mining parties, however there seems to be nobody sounding off from that camp in favor of it. The most comon post in favor of this ship is that they will only use it within the protected territories of alliance space. That seems like a design flaw from the start that will only increase the power of the bigger alliances while this ship is still quite a vulnerable sitting duck (and an expensive one at that) for any group that would be nomadic. It is simply not designed for it's purpose but it is most likely to feed the mega-aliances and isk-selling types before anyone else. Simply put: It's intended for small groups but... It gives the best mining boost in the game to everyone in the gang no matter how big the gang is. It can compress some of the ore to make transportation more effective so a big gang can use more miners and less haulers. It can consolidate all the jet cans near it's self so haulers coming to get ore can also take the compressed lumps it generates. Therefore... It is designed for a large group in safe territory, not a small nomadic mining party. If you truely intend this for small groups and for it to not be effective for large alliance, well protected groups, then I strongly urge you to re-design it thoroughly so that it fits it's intended purpose. If you don't then it will just further increase the size differances between groups in the game and that only makes big groups happy.
Sweet Majoram	Posted - 2007.08.22 10:13:00 - [536] ...and correct me if I'm wrong but with this ship they are also decreasing the size of the mining barges as well as this thing having the largest ship hanger... so carriers bring in the barges and one is the wing (or higher) bonus giver, this thing brings the haulers and with good skills brings the pilots clones, and gives it's bonus to the mining squad... and it's even more in favor of a large op... also it can totally break it's roll by carying haulers, cargo bay, and corp hanger full of POS gear, cloan-jumping pilots for the indies and some for ships tucked away in carriers that come with it... And your "small nomadic group" can put up several large POS's simultaniously with tackle and fighter support when only one cheap frig (the cyno) actually did some traveling. This is bad, wrong, and bad some more
Deacon Ix Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2007.08.22 10:21:00 - [537] Sorry if this has already been answered From the Compression BPOs on SiSi I assume the PE skill will not affect the compression? Originally by: Steini OFSI The most efficient way to get a dev response is to have the word beer somewhere in your thread.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.08.22 10:23:00 - [538] Originally by: Deacon Ix From the Compression BPOs on SiSi I assume the PE skill will not affect the compression? That is correct, as this are blueprints only usable on the rorqual and necessary to its function, they have zero waste and not intended for research. At some future point we are looking at much more complex additional processes that will require research.

Nicely Dunn	Posted - 2007.08.22 11:30:00 - [539] My main character is a Mining Director. This ship should be aimed at Mining Directors not Hulk pilots. It is a waste of time and skills to fly this ship if you are a Hulk pilot. CCP, get rid of the Mining Barge V skill requirement. That is just the ultimate stupidity. This ship has NOTHING to do with mining. It CAN'T mine. It doesn't know what an asteroid LOOKS like. Replace Mining Barge V with Command Ship V. That is the skill tree that Mining Directors have come from. For goodness sake show some sanity and logic. BTW I am annoyed (stamps foot). Kindest Regards Nicely Dunn. PS. Did I mention that it would be a good idea to please replace Mining Barge V with Command Ship V as a requirement for the Rorqual. (Otherwise, I will have to taunt you a second time)
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.22 11:58:00 - [540] Originally by: Nicely Dunn Replace Mining Barge V with Command Ship V. No.
Laendra	Posted - 2007.08.22 14:40:00 - [541] In my opinion, a jack-of-so-many-trades ship is not what is needed here. It would seem that you are trying to combine too many aspects together for one really expensive ship. A more logical approach would be to provide an ore compression starbase module, and convert the ORE Capital ship to a cheaper and more effective jump-drive capable industry ship with the following capabilities. Capital Tractor Beams (where are the medium and large ones?), Mining Gang Mod bonus (per level), Industry module that multiplies the Mining Gang mod bonus of the ship when activated, and the survey bonus mentioned for the the other. The max cargo space of the ship should be around 125k, including the Corp Hangar bay. The ship hangar bay should be large enough to carry several hulks. The clone bay should be excluded. Jump range should be somewhere between Carrier and Dreadnought, inclusive. Cost should be about 1.2b (base price). Skill Reqs should be Mining Director V, Advanced Spaceship Command III, Capital Ships III, ORE [Ship-type] I -------------------
Tarnia Xavian	Posted - 2007.08.22 16:43:00 - [542] It seems that the ore compression problem has been solved already by the implementation of jump bridges which have brought freighters into our 0.0 regions in a big way. We don't have an urgent need for a ship or mod that compresses ore anymore.
Oogane Mochi	Posted - 2007.08.22 17:26:00 - [543] Edited by: Oogane Mochi on 22/08/2007 17:27:34 Originally by: Laendra Skill Reqs should be Mining Director V, Advanced Spaceship Command III, Capital Ships III, ORE [Ship-type] I Quick Point: How do you get to Capital Ships III without Advanced Spaceship Command V? Also, there is no reason for Mining Director V should be a requirement. Most chars that have the Spaceship Command skills for this have like 3 base charisma. It would take me 60 days just to get that. Not saying I am not going to, I will train it AFTER I get the ship. Basically, dont punish other race combinations just because you chose Intaki. Edit: My main is Intaki as well.
Laendra	Posted - 2007.08.22 17:50:00 - [544] Originally by: Oogane Mochi Edited by: Oogane Mochi on 22/08/2007 17:27:34 Originally by: Laendra Skill Reqs should be Mining Director V, Advanced Spaceship Command III, Capital Ships III, ORE [Ship-type] I Quick Point: How do you get to Capital Ships III without Advanced Spaceship Command V? Also, there is no reason for Mining Director V should be a requirement. Most chars that have the Spaceship Command skills for this have like 3 base charisma. It would take me 60 days just to get that. Not saying I am not going to, I will train it AFTER I get the ship. Basically, dont punish other race combinations just because you chose Intaki. Edit: My main is Intaki as well. Meh, I changed my mind as I was thinking about it, and forgot to remove the ASC III req. As for mining director, that's kind of the point of the ship, is it not? You're driving bonuses for a ship based on a base set of bonuses, much like the T2 ships get a few bonuses based on the T1 ship type skill that it is based on (i.e. you get a bonus to skills per level of gallente cruiser for the T2 cruisers), they're not a "base stat" of the ship). To me, a ship with mining gang mod bonuses as one of it's main features, should be flown only by pilots that are the best at that particular function....much like Capital Ships requires Advanced Spaceship Command V to pilot the Carriers, Dreads, Motherships and Titans. -------------------
Flora Chase	Posted - 2007.08.22 19:27:00 - [545] I know much of this has been said before but I want to add my voice to it. I'm very pleased with most of the things planned, however I am concerned about giving a clone vat to a ship so inexpensive. Carriers cannot immediately deploy manned ships upon jumping in, that is reserved for the super-capital ships, and probably should not be so easily given to a smaller model, either that or allow carriers to use it as well. Perhaps make super-capital vats larger than smaller.
Brazero Amarr Noble House	Posted - 2007.08.22 20:58:00 - [546] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Nicely Dunn Replace Mining Barge V with Command Ship V. No. She's right you know, the ship provides gang bonus and need leadership skills, so commandship 5 is what it should have And to the noob with 3 charisma, it's a bit late to start whining now, don't you think. You gave your charater lots of points on combat related attribs and no you start crying about it Originally by: Rodj Blake CCP are planning to give Amarrians some "oomph" Unfortunately, "oomph" is the sound one makes when kicked repeatedly in the ribs.
billcips	Posted - 2007.08.23 01:45:00 - [547] instead of condesing the ore making it 20 times smaller why not just add super cargo and use as portable refining array with docking and ect.
Eternus8lux8lucis Minmatar FW Inc	Posted - 2007.08.23 01:55:00 - [548] I absolutely love it!! My character is so in place for this ship and its got all of the attributes I couldve wished for. Ive been spending the last few days reading and figuring out setups as well as deployment ideas. This ship gives 8-10 person corps the ability to mine 0.0 with ease. I love it!! Small, compact and beautiful, cant wait to train for it and fly it. Oh baby!! SHOW ME THE LOVE!!! *********************************************** Where do we go from here? When theres no up and no down anymore...onward....ever onward into the vastnes of chaos till you find the light within.
ByFstugan Northern Shadowrunners FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.23 03:20:00 - [549] It's an ORE constructed ship, not a T3 Battle Cruiser, therefor Mining Barge 5 is more in line than Command Ship 5 - beside the fact that it's an industrial [capital] ship and that "industrial category" is same for Mining Barges as well as haulers, not true for Battle Cruisers. The ship has an active practical work for ORE compressing, making the logistics easier for haulers, and this is all the category of industrials still. It has passive bonuses to mining gang links, but this is NOT it¦s main purpose, therefor the Mining Foreman 5 is totally out of question as I see it. No such advanced leadership skilled is demanded for any high levels at command ship even, so Command ship you can fly without any good leadership skills at all - why think different here? The capital tractor beam demands Graviton Physics 4, but you can fly the ship without be able to use this module at all, that¦s another reason not to think like you must be able to use this ships all bonuses at full just to fly it. The ship also has bonuses to shield transporters, and that could lead to the thought that the Rorqual must have Logistic ships 5 as well, but then again it's same error in thinking. That aside the argument about command ship and mining direcor level five we can easy see that the mining related bonuses on Leadership is in heavy minority, this ship fills a gap that gives the industialists some payback for learning this skills that are so few to them. Only one really with an advanced alternative that demands the first skill to full. The Rorqual's main purpose is to help industrial hauling by compressing ore, and to transport barges there - that's why the Mining Director requirement is out of place. The Rorqual is an ORE capital ship, built for industrial purpose - that is why an ORE ship Mining Barge 5 is best requirement. This is so even if this capital isn't mining as the Mining Barge, just as the Carriers who demands Battle Ship 5 isn't doing same thing as the Battle ships, but instead works as a support vessel. The Rorqual is the support to Mining Barges and other industrial ships, just as the Carriers is the support to Battle Ships and other fighting ships. To me it seems like CCP's staff have much more logic here than several who posted here lately complaining about this lack of logic. _______________________________ The wise knows what he knows not.
Nicely Dunn	Posted - 2007.08.23 04:44:00 - [550] Well ByF, here's the logic that you seem unwilling to grasp. The Hulk pilots in my corp are much closer to being able to fly the Rorqual than my Alt character who is a mining director. If one of the Hulk pilots changes over to fly the Rorqual that means we have one less hulk mining. The Mining Director is redundant as the bonuses are coming from the Rorqual. All my character's Leadership training gets thrown into the void of space. You don't need an Eos sitting there giving bonuses that are outweighed by the Rorqual. So instead of 5 hulks mining with bonuses from my Eos (which is also mining) we now have 4 hulks mining with a glorified taxi truck sitting next to them that has to be piloted by a very bored ex-hulk pilot. I go off and train something else and kiss my months of wasted leadership skill training goodbye. I could, of course, train up to become a Hulk pilot, a ship I will never use, just so I can pilot a ship that can't mine. If that is logic ByF then please let me stay illogical. If you don't like Command Ship V as an alternative to Mining Barge V, then Logistics V would at least be within the ballpark of common sense. It is, after all, logistic support for the mining gang. Hell, even Industrial V or Freighter III or IV would make more sense than Mining Barge. More regards Nicely Dunn PS: CCP, please make this ship accessable to Mining Directors without them having to train Mining Barge V. Pick some other skill that is equally fair to both Miners and Mining Directors.
ByFstugan Northern Shadowrunners FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.23 06:39:00 - [551] Originally by: Nicely Dunn Well ByF, here's the logic that you seem unwilling to grasp. The Hulk pilots in my corp are much closer to being able to fly the Rorqual than my Alt character who is a mining director. If one of the Hulk pilots changes over to fly the Rorqual that means we have one less hulk mining. The Mining Director is redundant as the bonuses are coming from the Rorqual. All my character's Leadership training gets thrown into the void of space. You don't need an Eos sitting there giving bonuses that are outweighed by the Rorqual. So instead of 5 hulks mining with bonuses from my Eos (which is also mining) we now have 4 hulks mining with a glorified taxi truck sitting next to them that has to be piloted by a very bored ex-hulk pilot. I go off and train something else and kiss my months of wasted leadership skill training goodbye. I could, of course, train up to become a Hulk pilot, a ship I will never use, just so I can pilot a ship that can't mine. If that is logic ByF then please let me stay illogical. If you don't like Command Ship V as an alternative to Mining Barge V, then Logistics V would at least be within the ballpark of common sense. It is, after all, logistic support for the mining gang. Hell, even Industrial V or Freighter III or IV would make more sense than Mining Barge. More regards Nicely Dunn PS: CCP, please make this ship accessable to Mining Directors without them having to train Mining Barge V. Pick some other skill that is equally fair to both Miners and Mining Directors. I'm not inwilling to grasp any "logic", I just stated my opinion on it with some referenses to what was said and how it compares to the game as it is now. I gave many examples to what was in line with the games logic, and what is primary and secondary as was missed in your "logic". You still lay your attention to the ships passive Leadership bonus, that is a secondary thing with this ship and not it¦s main purpose. It's main purpose is to compress ore and help the logistics. Your last reply seems to state that the skillrequierments on the Rorqual should suit your skillsetup on your differents charachters at present state as good as possible, so you don¦t have to wide their horizons to much. Besides that you want CCP to make the skillrequirements for EVE's first industrial capital to lack industrialrelated skills. I bet your Eos pilot lacks Mass production 4 also, so perhaps CCP can change that also to something that suit your skilltree? Besides that you don't need to make your Eos pilot an Hulk pilot - you don¦t even have to learn him fly the Covetor since Astrogeologhy 5 isn¦t a requirement. But if you train to Hulk and never use it anyway, then I really would call you illogical, or at least a bit stupid. That aside it¦s not unique anyware in EVE that you train some skill only to get access to something else. I bet many trained Destroyers 5 without inteding to fly anything with that hull that¦s not an interdictor. And finally, since you in a serious effort suggested the Logistics 5 as an alternative, I must simply state that you missed the point with my comparison between the Rorqual and Carriers and their similarity in logic concerning the requirements. Not only that, your other new suggestions about Industrial and Freighter skillrequirement shows that you totally ignore the fact of them NOT being ORE contructed ships. That¦s what make the Mining Barge the ONLY choice, besides the other stuff I said in my erlier mess. To learn the basics of the only ORE producted ships, the Mining Barges, is billions of times more logic when you shall fly the ORE producted capital than to max the skill of a T2 Battle Cruiser that only demands few leadership skills in itself. This is extra much so when it was the Leadership skills that was the argument. The ships requirements should not be based on a module you can use if you choose, but to the ship you should fly. This is an ORE ship. _______________________________ The wise knows what he knows not.
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2007.08.23 07:39:00 - [552] IMO, the requirement of Mining Barge 5 is irrelevant. More important is that the pilot has to operate the compression - which requies refining skills. I can accept the idea that ORE wants to produce a ship that requires a skill for their line of ships, but does it make sense that the pilot has to have perfect refining skills? Am I missing something? -------------------------------------------------- I'm a rich person. How I know? I can afford to be a miner.
Fish Evans Caldari Universal Mining Inc	Posted - 2007.08.23 12:59:00 - [553] just a thought but if we cant have that extra hidden space by stacking why not work in parrelel? add more assembely lines, compensate by increasing the run time on the BPO and Voila unless I've missed something.
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.23 13:12:00 - [554] Edited by: Montaire on 23/08/2007 13:16:21 I see a lot of sentiment regarding this bieng a "Command" capital ship. I dont think thats appropriate in this situation. This is a ship designed to coordinate mining operations. And as such a very detailed knowledge of mining is very important. Certianly so is leadership skills, but remember this is at its heart a Capital Industrial Ship. Which isnt to say Im against the idea of a Capital Command Ship. Quite the contrary I think it would be most excellent, I just dont think this ship is it. Nor should any firm backer of a Capital Command Ship want it to be.
AbyssStalker Dread Fleet	Posted - 2007.08.23 14:33:00 - [555] Well it sounds like a useful ship but you will need a fleet to protect it and the rest of the miners. I just don't see people getting a gang together to protect these guys for any decient amount of time.. baby sitting miners is boring as hell.. And the new Cap ships gonna be a great target for roaming gangs & pirates. Lets talk about COST & INSURANCE.. estimated cost is what... 1.8 bil or more... Max insurance will cost ya around 250-300 mil or more, and might cover 750-800 mil... And EXPIRES !! So your dropping another couple hundred mil for insurance again... So Who's gonna be willing to park that overpriced boat in a belt for all to take a ***** at it? not me... its just not worth the risk.. Buy hey thats just my opinion .
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.23 15:27:00 - [556] Originally by: AbyssStalker Well it sounds like a useful ship but you will need a fleet to protect it and the rest of the miners. I just don't see people getting a gang together to protect these guys for any decient amount of time.. baby sitting miners is boring as hell.. And the new Cap ships gonna be a great target for roaming gangs & pirates. Lets talk about COST & INSURANCE.. estimated cost is what... 1.8 bil or more... Max insurance will cost ya around 250-300 mil or more, and might cover 750-800 mil... And EXPIRES !! So your dropping another couple hundred mil for insurance again... So Who's gonna be willing to park that overpriced boat in a belt for all to take a ***** at it? not me... its just not worth the risk.. Buy hey thats just my opinion . Well I did the numbers and the thing is that a Rorqual is a force multiplier. Think of it as a modern day wet-top carrier. With just one fighter a carrier is pretty useless, but with the 40 or so it carries its a much bigger deal. The Rorqual can give a real nice force multiplier to the gang in terms of mineral yield. If the yield is a mere 25% better (And I know its a lot better than that in time saved vs. hauling. Especially if you account for time) then its worth it once you have more than 4 miners. This is like any other capital ship - its designed for use in corps and alliances. Two buddies enjoying the intro to eve that is empire will get use from this.
Mavric Viscosity	Posted - 2007.08.23 18:46:00 - [557] At initial thought, this is a great idea. Upon reading what it will do, its a bad idea. Noone is going to dump the kind of isk it will take to build one of these to risk losing it. It is a HUGE target. Unless they make it capable of raping belts in record time, its just not worth it. Even with 4 Hulks, it just isn't that time effective. In all reality it is nothing more than a really big barge with a couple nice bonuses.
Nicely Dunn	Posted - 2007.08.24 02:00:00 - [558] This baby needs to be able to defend itself to a greater degree, but at the same time not become a warefare capital. I would suggest giving it the ability to "deal" with a hostile gang of 5 or 6 that find the miners in a belt. If the Rorqual had the ability to fit 6 to 8 missile launchers that would give it the same offensive ability as a battleship. Combined with it's superior tank that would give it the chance to defend itself against a roaming gang. This would stop the small hostile force from taking it on by themselves and have to call backup. This extra time would also allow the Rorqual gang to call in their own support. If they have jumped into hostile territory to mine in someone else's backyard and don't have any support to call on then they deserve to die a horrible death With the way the Rorqual is at the moment, when it is attacked all it can do it sit there and tank. The small hostile force can camp around it and pound at the shields till they take it down. On the other hand, if the Rorqual had 6 to 8 cruise missiles firing back the hostiles can't just sit there and take it down easily. I can't see this being exploited in fleet warefare as who in their right mind would want to risk a 2 billion ISK ship that only has the firepower of a battleship. For precedent, look at the WWII. The merchant ships all carried guns. The didn't go looking for fights, but if the situation demanded it they had some sort of offensive capability. So, I would argue for 8 high slots that can fit 8 missile bays. In practice I would presume that pilots would opt for fitting a tractor beam and a gang link leaving you with only six missile bays. However, if you were heading for risky territory you have the option of packing a full eight launchers. If CCP wanted to make doubly sure that the Rorqual stayed out of fleet ops then make it only capable of using missile bays in it's deployed mode. That would make it stuck in place for 10 mins. Come on guys! Let this thing have half a chance of protecting itelf and it's mining gang. Even more regards, Nicely Dunn
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.24 03:36:00 - [559] I think its already quite capable. Its basicly got 10 drones, which is a nice little horde. 5 drones +20% per level damage and HP means it does more DPS than an Ishtar or a Domi. With its VERY generous mid-slot allotment it should be able to fit a very nice cap recharge. Assuming that this thing gets a decent sized drone bay (5 Lights + 5 Heavies) I think its already quite capable of detering a single attacker or a small gang. And for the rest : its a capital ship - dont use it unsupported. PS - Make sure that drone Bonus also affects mining drones maybe ? Originally by: Nicely Dunn This baby needs to be able to defend itself to a greater degree, but at the same time not become a warefare capital. I would suggest giving it the ability to "deal" with a hostile gang of 5 or 6 that find the miners in a belt. If the Rorqual had the ability to fit 6 to 8 missile launchers that would give it the same offensive ability as a battleship. Combined with it's superior tank that would give it the chance to defend itself against a roaming gang. This would stop the small hostile force from taking it on by themselves and have to call backup. This extra time would also allow the Rorqual gang to call in their own support. If they have jumped into hostile territory to mine in someone else's backyard and don't have any support to call on then they deserve to die a horrible death With the way the Rorqual is at the moment, when it is attacked all it can do it sit there and tank. The small hostile force can camp around it and pound at the shields till they take it down. On the other hand, if the Rorqual had 6 to 8 cruise missiles firing back the hostiles can't just sit there and take it down easily. I can't see this being exploited in fleet warefare as who in their right mind would want to risk a 2 billion ISK ship that only has the firepower of a battleship. For precedent, look at the WWII. The merchant ships all carried guns. The didn't go looking for fights, but if the situation demanded it they had some sort of offensive capability. So, I would argue for 8 high slots that can fit 8 missile bays. In practice I would presume that pilots would opt for fitting a tractor beam and a gang link leaving you with only six missile bays. However, if you were heading for risky territory you have the option of packing a full eight launchers. If CCP wanted to make doubly sure that the Rorqual stayed out of fleet ops then make it only capable of using missile bays in it's deployed mode. That would make it stuck in place for 10 mins. Come on guys! Let this thing have half a chance of protecting itelf and it's mining gang. Even more regards, Nicely Dunn
Nicely Dunn	Posted - 2007.08.24 05:33:00 - [560] Quote: And for the rest : its a capital ship - dont use it unsupported. Hmmm.... Wasn't the original concept for this thing to take 4 or 5 miners out into the field and support them? Or why give it a clone bay? After the initial 30 seconds and all your drones are dead what do we do then? Stare menacingly at the hostiles and call them names? Yes, yes, I know it will take longer than 30 seconds, but you know what I mean. My corp has extremely serious 0.0 miners and also dedicated PvPers so I can look at this thing from both sides. On one hand I am looking forward to flying the Rorqual in order to suport my Hulk buddies (my main alt is a mining Director), but on the other hand I can't wait for my covert PvP group to run into one. We'll warp scramble it, take out it's drones and then sit there and feast on the carcass. If it's you we get be sure to wave. o/ Because when your drones are gone that's all you'll be able to do. :) Regards Nicely Dunn
Sai Renn Leader Dogs For The Blind	Posted - 2007.08.24 07:18:00 - [561] Edited by: Sai Renn on 24/08/2007 07:21:16 Well I had not thought about the issue with mining barge 5. For me thats not much of an issue really, but I can see why it might be for others to have to train for a Mining Barge that they wont use, just so you can fly the Ro. I guess Astrogeologhy lvl 5 might be a better skill req? At least then it helps the mining director Chars when they are helping with high sec mining ops aswell. After all cant set it for Industrial Ship skills as then that bones over those who have trained for 1 type of hauler. The main Industrial would be redundant as you need that already to compress (I think?) so that would reduce the amount of training for one. Just giving my opinion anyways -----
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.24 14:51:00 - [562] Originally by: Nicely Dunn I can't wait for my covert PvP group to run into one. We'll warp scramble it, take out it's drones and then sit there and feast on the carcass. Nicely Dunn If your a covert gang you wont even be able to scratch the paint on my Capital Tank. And even assuming that a Covert Ops can hold me while eating what ammounts to 10 Tech 2 Light or Medium drones is ludicrous. A Lachesis or an Arazu might be able to do it. 10 drones worth of dps is nothing to sneeze at. Not ot mention that my scouts should have picked you up long before you get into system, and if theres' a hostile in local then damned sure my Rorqual is cloaked. Capital Tank people, no small gank gang is going to kill it. Hell 3-5 Hacs might not even take it. Also consider this. You had to have a Cyno to get the Rorqual there in the first place. Why not jump in some support if things go south. Then its their gang (Plus whatever is on its way as shouts of "Rorqual tackled in belt come help") vs. my gang (Also, shouts of "crap Rorqual in belt HELP!" in intel) and my support. Far from sounding bad, that sounds like the reason I play EVE!
Andrus Delai e X i l e FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.24 18:40:00 - [563] Edited by: Andrus Delai on 24/08/2007 18:42:42 AFAIK, the Rorqual can only have 5 drones. Have I missed something? In addition, with any number of drones, without any bonus to drone control range, the ship will be unable to use the drones to defend the barges if it is in deployed mode. Originally by: Montaire Originally by: Nicely Dunn I can't wait for my covert PvP group to run into one. We'll warp scramble it, take out it's drones and then sit there and feast on the carcass. Nicely Dunn If your a covert gang you wont even be able to scratch the paint on my Capital Tank. And even assuming that a Covert Ops can hold me while eating what ammounts to 10 Tech 2 Light or Medium drones is ludicrous. A Lachesis or an Arazu might be able to do it. 10 drones worth of dps is nothing to sneeze at. Not ot mention that my scouts should have picked you up long before you get into system, and if theres' a hostile in local then damned sure my Rorqual is cloaked. Capital Tank people, no small gank gang is going to kill it. Hell 3-5 Hacs might not even take it. Also consider this. You had to have a Cyno to get the Rorqual there in the first place. Why not jump in some support if things go south. Then its their gang (Plus whatever is on its way as shouts of "Rorqual tackled in belt come help") vs. my gang (Also, shouts of "crap Rorqual in belt HELP!" in intel) and my support. Far from sounding bad, that sounds like the reason I play EVE!
mamba mo Caldari griffin Star productions Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.24 18:48:00 - [564] evan iff they cant beat whats atacking you barges carry there own drones as well but who would go for a barge when theres a cap ship waiting and evan if you did if your low sec minnig you should aline with a safe spot in case of somthing like this hapaning if not you diserve to go splat Originally by: Andrus Delai Edited by: Andrus Delai on 24/08/2007 18:42:42 AFAIK, the Rorqual can only have 5 drones. Have I missed something? In addition, with any number of drones, without any bonus to drone control range, the ship will be unable to use the drones to defend the barges if it is in deployed mode. Originally by: Montaire Originally by: Nicely Dunn I can't wait for my covert PvP group to run into one. We'll warp scramble it, take out it's drones and then sit there and feast on the carcass. Nicely Dunn If your a covert gang you wont even be able to scratch the paint on my Capital Tank. And even assuming that a Covert Ops can hold me while eating what ammounts to 10 Tech 2 Light or Medium drones is ludicrous. A Lachesis or an Arazu might be able to do it. 10 drones worth of dps is nothing to sneeze at. Not ot mention that my scouts should have picked you up long before you get into system, and if theres' a hostile in local then damned sure my Rorqual is cloaked. Capital Tank people, no small gank gang is going to kill it. Hell 3-5 Hacs might not even take it. Also consider this. You had to have a Cyno to get the Rorqual there in the first place. Why not jump in some support if things go south. Then its their gang (Plus whatever is on its way as shouts of "Rorqual tackled in belt come help") vs. my gang (Also, shouts of "crap Rorqual in belt HELP!" in intel) and my support. Far from sounding bad, that sounds like the reason I play EVE! my other ride has a image
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.25 03:08:00 - [565] Yes, you are missing somthing. The +20% Per level in drone HP and Damage. Originally by: Andrus Delai AFAIK, the Rorqual can only have 5 drones. Have I missed something? In addition, with any number of drones, without any bonus to drone control range, the ship will be unable to use the drones to defend the barges if it is in deployed mode
Amateratsu Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.25 08:34:00 - [566] Originally by: Montaire Yes, you are missing somthing. The +20% Per level in drone HP and Damage. Originally by: Andrus Delai AFAIK, the Rorqual can only have 5 drones. Have I missed something? In addition, with any number of drones, without any bonus to drone control range, the ship will be unable to use the drones to defend the barges if it is in deployed mode 20% bonus per lvl to drone damage and hp will not do squat. As an above poster said, the Rorqual's drones will be called primery and will still be popped in a few seconds, leaving you a big fat defenceless sitting target. The only time this ship will be deployed in the field, is in alliance controlled space where it can quickly get support when needed, or enough advanced intell of inbound hostiles to jump out before they arrive.
mamba mo Caldari griffin Star productions Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.25 11:50:00 - [567] 20% per lev is not that much ill agree if you have that skill at I but at V thats 100% bounus so hp an damage are doubbled and then you have other large bounuses from other skills such as drone interfacing and drone durabliity ect ect as a minner thease skill are important as drones offer the only line of defence for solo minning and a large part in opps. in my oppinion ccp have noticed this and im glad they have featured it in this new beast of a ship. T2 drones are deadly in the control of a pilot with the skills for them and if you dont its just somthing you have to work on just the same as a mission runner has to work on tank or a pirate has to work on energy emision skills evan if the nos is geting nerfed to get the best out of there ship and and mods minners are no diffrent. on top of that do you or do you not need a cyno to get this thing into the system? you can jus as easaly scream help im geting **ed in aliance/corp or anywhere else and you can have capital support before the atackers can scrach the paint work. and on top of that you have to find it cos its easlay capable of siting cloaked 100km from the belt in any direction for any amount of time. this is a good ship like anyother ship it dose have weeknesses that people are just gunna have to work on strenghaning it and not moaning becuse it dosent sute there skill tree. well done CCP. Originally by:** Amateratsu Originally by: Montaire Yes, you are missing somthing. The +20% Per level in drone HP and Damage. Originally by: Andrus Delai AFAIK, the Rorqual can only have 5 drones. Have I missed something? In addition, with any number of drones, without any bonus to drone control range, the ship will be unable to use the drones to defend the barges if it is in deployed mode 20% bonus per lvl to drone damage and hp will not do squat. As an above poster said, the Rorqual's drones will be called primery and will still be popped in a few seconds, leaving you a big fat defenceless sitting target. The only time this ship will be deployed in the field, is in alliance controlled space where it can quickly get support when needed, or enough advanced intell of inbound hostiles to jump out before they arrive. my other ride has a image
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.25 13:21:00 - [568] Originally by: Amateratsu 20% bonus per lvl to drone damage and hp will not do squat. As an above poster said, the Rorqual's drones will be called primery and will still be popped in a few seconds, leaving you a big fat defenceless sitting target. The only time this ship will be deployed in the field, is in alliance controlled space where it can quickly get support when needed, or enough advanced intell of inbound hostiles to jump out before they arrive. Well I agree with you in part, and disagree in part. If the drones are unable to break the initial tackle either by destroying or sufficiently distracting (IE ECM or NOS) the ship doing it the ship is in a lot of trouble. You are definatly right on that one. Ideally you dont want this ship to ever see the enemy fleet, you should be able to avoid and evade. If you cant do that then the ship should be able to hold untill reinforcments arrive. It does have a healthy sized capital tank, plenty of mid slots and low slots. And then the fun will truly begin.
Andrus Delai e X i l e FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.26 06:08:00 - [569] No, I didn't miss that. That's not 10 drones. At Industrial Capitals 5 it's close to being the same but it still falls short. Originally by: Montaire Yes, you are missing somthing. The +20% Per level in drone HP and Damage. Originally by: Andrus Delai AFAIK, the Rorqual can only have 5 drones. Have I missed something? In addition, with any number of drones, without any bonus to drone control range, the ship will be unable to use the drones to defend the barges if it is in deployed mode
Doom Viper	Posted - 2007.08.26 16:08:00 - [570] .
GodsKnowledge Caldari Suns Of Korhal	Posted - 2007.08.26 23:30:00 - [571] To the dev. team. I saw a video of the rorqual. It truns the cans sideways then Two jets start rotating it aruond an axis. Majoing in physics here and i know for a fact the motion in that ship is not real. Two things need to be fixed if you can and care to. One there has to be two vecrors of acceleration on the ship on on the front and one on the back pointing in opposing directions. This will give the ship a cirqular motion so that it swings around its center of gravity or what ever axis you choose. Second a reverse action has to happen for the same period of time and seemingly the same intensity of thrust has to be applied in reverse for the ship to stop. Things in space do not slow down unless a opposing force is activated. This also goes with any other ships. The ships on eve have an easy time slowing down without using and reverse thrusters or without turning around and using their main thrusters. It would be nice if sutch principals were applied to Eve.
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.27 05:55:00 - [572] Originally by: GodsKnowledge To the dev. team. I saw a video of the rorqual. It truns the cans sideways then Two jets start rotating it aruond an axis. Majoing in physics here and i know for a fact the motion in that ship is not real. Two things need to be fixed if you can and care to. One there has to be two vecrors of acceleration on the ship on on the front and one on the back pointing in opposing directions. This will give the ship a cirqular motion so that it swings around its center of gravity or what ever axis you choose. Second a reverse action has to happen for the same period of time and seemingly the same intensity of thrust has to be applied in reverse for the ship to stop. Things in space do not slow down unless a opposing force is activated. This also goes with any other ships. The ships on eve have an easy time slowing down without using and reverse thrusters or without turning around and using their main thrusters. It would be nice if sutch principals were applied to Eve. Sadly physics laws from our universe doesn't work in the EVE universe. It has its pros and cons. ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Speedup IGB table rendering
Heisenburg Principle	Posted - 2007.08.27 13:14:00 - [573] Are any Screen shots or pictures of this thing available yet?
Fastercart Gallente Ihatalo Heavy Industries Ihatalo Cartel	Posted - 2007.08.27 13:42:00 - [574] Originally by: Heisenburg Principle Are any Screen shots or pictures of this thing available yet? There are a few youtube videos. __ Rorqual AKA Mega Maid Oh, my God. It's Mega Maid. She's gone from suck to blow.
Rhysheline Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.27 14:31:00 - [575] Is this ship hidden somewhere special on the test server (along with the capital skill needed)? I thought the ship and BPO would be available before the live patch tomorrow so that we can at least get into one before we do it live.
Ieu Duin Amarr Star Sabre Industries	Posted - 2007.08.27 18:35:00 - [576] Originally by: GodsKnowledge Things in space do not slow down unless a opposing force is activated. This also goes with any other ships. The ships on eve have an easy time slowing down without using and reverse thrusters or without turning around and using their main thrusters. It would be nice if sutch principals were applied to Eve. I agree with you on the issue of the ships turning without any apparent opposing thrust applied, but, I do see at least an attempt at a reverse thrust in the graphic of my ships slowing down and stopping. It could be done better, but I believe there is at least some representation there right now.
Ieu Duin Amarr Star Sabre Industries	Posted - 2007.08.27 18:39:00 - [577] Originally by: Nicely Dunn This ship should be aimed at Mining Directors not Hulk pilots. CCP, get rid of the Mining Barge V skill requirement. This ship has NOTHING to do with mining. It CAN'T mine. Replace Mining Barge V with Command Ship V. That is the skill tree that Mining Directors have come from. I agree with you on this. And not just becuause we have the same last name. Though, mine is spelled cooler.;)
marketBoy1	Posted - 2007.08.27 20:30:00 - [578]
Lougra Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.28 05:46:00 - [579] Originally by: Nicely Dunn My main character is a Mining Director. This ship should be aimed at Mining Directors not Hulk pilots. It is a waste of time and skills to fly this ship if you are a Hulk pilot. CCP, get rid of the Mining Barge V skill requirement. That is just the ultimate stupidity. This ship has NOTHING to do with mining. It CAN'T mine. It doesn't know what an asteroid LOOKS like. Replace Mining Barge V with Command Ship V. That is the skill tree that Mining Directors have come from. For goodness sake show some sanity and logic. BTW I am annoyed (stamps foot). Kindest Regards Nicely Dunn. PS. Did I mention that it would be a good idea to please replace Mining Barge V with Command Ship V as a requirement for the Rorqual. (Otherwise, I will have to taunt you a second time) I agree. Is useless to have mining barge and exhumer skills when is not supposed to mine. As about the bonus in links, ill tell you this. My mining director the last week finished the warfare link specialist skill at lvl 5. The total benefit from it in ore mining was only 3 secs. :P (have in ming that my director using the mindlink) According to this, the actual bonus from rorqual can be near 1-2 secs at most. Carebear is the surname that you got, if you enjoy to play eve, in other way than the rest want YOU to play it.
Amateratsu Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.28 08:01:00 - [580] Edited by: Amateratsu on 28/08/2007 08:02:02 Originally by: Lougra My mining director the last week finished the warfare link specialist skill at lvl 5. The total benefit from it in ore mining was only 3 secs. :P (have in ming that my director using the mindlink) According to this, the actual bonus from rorqual can be near 1-2 secs at most. Your doing something wrong my friend if you are only getting a 3 sec cycle bonus.... My mining director with the laser optimization link gives me a 40.5 sec reduction in strip miner cycle time. For this to work you need the following... Mining Foreman 5 Mining Director 5 Warfare Link Specialist 5 Mining Foreman Mindlink plugged in Your Director must be in a BC/CS and should be the squad leader with all miners being squad members to recieve the bonus which is a 22.5% command bonus or 40.5 sec reduction in cycle time.
Nicely Dunn	Posted - 2007.08.28 08:37:00 - [581] Originally by: Amateratsu Edited by: Amateratsu on 28/08/2007 08:02:02 Originally by: Lougra My mining director the last week finished the warfare link specialist skill at lvl 5. The total benefit from it in ore mining was only 3 secs. :P (have in ming that my director using the mindlink) According to this, the actual bonus from rorqual can be near 1-2 secs at most. Your doing something wrong my friend if you are only getting a 3 sec cycle bonus.... My mining director with the laser optimization link gives me a 40.5 sec reduction in strip miner cycle time. For this to work you need the following... Mining Foreman 5 Mining Director 5 Warfare Link Specialist 5 Mining Foreman Mindlink plugged in Your Director must be in a BC/CS and should be the squad leader with all miners being squad members to recieve the bonus which is a 22.5% command bonus or 40.5 sec reduction in cycle time. I think Lougra meant that the difference between staying at Level 4 (Warefare Link Specialist)and training up to level 5 gave him only a 3 second extra cycle reduction. At level 4 you get a 37.8 second reduction in cycle. At Level 5 you get 40.5 second reduction. So you spend two weeks of your life training a skill that gives you an extra 2.7 seconds. Obviously, there must be something psychologically wrong with those of us that choose to be Mining Directors. And then after we have invested all those months to get to the ultimate in our skills CCP bring out the ultimate Mining Director's ship, but guess what, it's up a completely different skill tree. OK, OK. I'm over it. It's OK. I can handle it. I'm feeling quite calm. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
Amateratsu Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.28 09:07:00 - [582] Edited by: Amateratsu on 28/08/2007 09:12:35 All my ingame chars are fully trained miners (inc exumers 5) I've not trained my director up for command ships since only a BC is needed. So im quite happy with barge 5 being a pre req for the Rorqual, tho its stiil gonna take him 8 months before he can fly and use a Rorqual efficiently. Command Ships 5 would add another 71 days training for him. 70 days to train jumpdrive operation and jumpdrive calibration to lvl5, to cover the distance between our outpost and empire in 4 jumps and thats just 2 of the many skills the Rorqual will require
Gemberkoekje	Posted - 2007.08.28 14:49:00 - [583] And here's how he looks like:
POTUS Pimpology Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.08.28 15:34:00 - [584] I have long since had all but, the two new skills trained. I have been looking all over and still cannot find the new books. Where can I buy them? I WANT MY NEW SHIPS !!!!!!
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.28 15:41:00 - [585] Originally by: POTUS I have long since had all but, the two new skills trained. I have been looking all over and still cannot find the new books. Where can I buy them? I WANT MY NEW SHIPS !!!!!! POTUS - the skillbooks are in empire. Frackin spendy though. The ship book was almost half a bil. Havent seen the BPO price.
Riame	Posted - 2007.08.28 16:14:00 - [586] The ships currently broken. Its perk is a mining foreman bonus, but you need barges 5 to fly it? Its perk is compression, to aid in nomad ops, but the thing costs nearly 5 bil to get up and running? Be interesting to see what sort of compensations people set up to use this ship instead of what ccp wants... Barges 5 is a ridiculous requirement for this ship, it can't do any of its own mining. Give it a small number of slots for a capital mining laser, the hulk has been the end all be all for miners for far too long. With 6 highslots, this thing can still be useful! 1 clone vat bay, 1 industrial core, 1-2 capital tractor beams, 1 mining link... give the users a choice between fitting shield transporters and capital mining lasers! some versatility to this thing would be nice, as would some functionality.
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.08.28 16:33:00 - [587] Originally by: Montaire Originally by: POTUS I have long since had all but, the two new skills trained. I have been looking all over and still cannot find the new books. Where can I buy them? I WANT MY NEW SHIPS !!!!!! POTUS - the skillbooks are in empire. Frackin spendy though. The ship book was almost half a bil. Havent seen the BPO price. 2.97 B in ore stations book is 597m(?) Comps, around 2b+ depending on what you spent for mins... The core module bpo is 500m ish "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Flor deMaria	Posted - 2007.08.28 16:43:00 - [588] This ship definitely needs a full 8 high slots. Could use more lows too. And that's a ridiculous price for the skillbook if that's the correct price.
POTUS Pimpology Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.08.28 17:01:00 - [589] Thanks for the info guys. I just spent about 1 bill on the Capital Industrial Ships & Industrial Reconfiguration books for my two crits but, I think I am going to wait to buy the ship until other people work the bugs out and the price comes down a bit. I remember spending 3 bill each on the first two carriers when they came out.
Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.28 18:32:00 - [590] After looking at the finalized numbers, it appears that the ORE ship can compress four jetcans of ore per hour. That's the same output as two mining barges. Changes need to be made so that the ORE ship can handle a more reasonable amount of barges...say between 4 - 6? ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!
DreamWizard	Posted - 2007.08.28 20:07:00 - [591] well from what i read , CCP again falls short on demand, can this platform even mine, does it mine faster than a HULK with mining ugrades, ? again CCP ignores the lone wolf, ( not in a corp, ( for CCP) ) this ship is only good to large corps ( like B.O.B. (which has developers support and involvement). This ship is totally usless to 50% or more of the general subscribers and a response from CCP woulg greatly be Appreciated DreamWizard
Lewisynn Clark	Posted - 2007.08.28 22:01:00 - [592] I'm in outer ring region on test, i can see the covetor blueprints, but, there's no Rorqual's and no Rorqual blueprints here on the market. Is there a different place they are stored on test?
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.29 01:05:00 - [593] The solo game in EVE is just training wheels for the multiplayer, 0.0 alliance level warfare. ALL capital ships are designed for teams of people. They are not solo shis. Originally by: DreamWizard well from what i read , CCP again falls short on demand, can this platform even mine, does it mine faster than a HULK with mining ugrades, ? again CCP ignores the lone wolf, ( not in a corp, ( for CCP) ) this ship is only good to large corps ( like B.O.B. (which has developers support and involvement). This ship is totally usless to 50% or more of the general subscribers and a response from CCP woulg greatly be Appreciated DreamWizard
ByFstugan Northern Shadowrunners FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.29 03:13:00 - [594] Originally by: Borgholio After looking at the finalized numbers, it appears that the ORE ship can compress four jetcans of ore per hour. That's the same output as two mining barges. Changes need to be made so that the ORE ship can handle a more reasonable amount of barges...say between 4 - 6? I haven't done the math here, but if you are right I totally agree. Such big machinery with a pricetag like that must be possible to do the compression of AT LEAST four Hulks as it can carry. But I think it should be much faster even, so that it almost is hard to get barges that mine more than the Rorqual can compress. Otherwise this ship really sucks, and this only could be a reason that I turn my back on this ship of my former dreams. Plzzz CCP, make it compress in much shorter times. PS. To all that still complain about the skillrequirements about the Mining Barge 5, plz read my posts above and see why I think that skill is the only thinkable, and that other gangskills or commandship alike skills is not an option. DS. _______________________________ The wise knows what he knows not.
Gazanz	Posted - 2007.08.29 03:29:00 - [595] After reading through this forum I think it is great the changes that have been made and thanks CCP. However 4 jetcans per hours is not enough, I do 1 can per 20minutes so it compresses just faster then what I mine at with 1 Hulk. Please advise? Thanks
Lougra Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.29 09:55:00 - [596] Originally by: Nicely Dunn Originally by: Amateratsu Edited by: Amateratsu on 28/08/2007 08:02:02 Originally by: Lougra My mining director the last week finished the warfare link specialist skill at lvl 5. The total benefit from it in ore mining was only 3 secs. :P (have in ming that my director using the mindlink) According to this, the actual bonus from rorqual can be near 1-2 secs at most. Your doing something wrong my friend if you are only getting a 3 sec cycle bonus.... My mining director with the laser optimization link gives me a 40.5 sec reduction in strip miner cycle time. For this to work you need the following... Mining Foreman 5 Mining Director 5 Warfare Link Specialist 5 Mining Foreman Mindlink plugged in Your Director must be in a BC/CS and should be the squad leader with all miners being squad members to recieve the bonus which is a 22.5% command bonus or 40.5 sec reduction in cycle time. I think Lougra meant that the difference between staying at Level 4 (Warefare Link Specialist)and training up to level 5 gave him only a 3 second extra cycle reduction. At level 4 you get a 37.8 second reduction in cycle. At Level 5 you get 40.5 second reduction. So you spend two weeks of your life training a skill that gives you an extra 2.7 seconds. Obviously, there must be something psychologically wrong with those of us that choose to be Mining Directors. And then after we have invested all those months to get to the ultimate in our skills CCP bring out the ultimate Mining Director's ship, but guess what, it's up a completely different skill tree. OK, OK. I'm over it. It's OK. I can handle it. I'm feeling quite calm. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Exactly that. The total benefit for lvl 4 to lvl 5 was 3 lousy secs for 33 days of training. Carebear is the surname that you got, if you enjoy to play eve, in other way than the rest want YOU to play it.
Thorbjorn Brundtland PezCo - Ice Services Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.08.29 11:27:00 - [597] For me the skillbook prices are a slap in the face. For example a Rookie/n00b what ever needs 117 days to train for a Dread (beginning with Frig, Cruiser etc.) All required skill to fly that thing (of course without support skills (guns...) cost nearly 550,000,000 ISK The same n00b need nearly 108 days to train for a Rorqual but have to pay 950,000,000 ISK. Both are highly specialized Capital Pilots only difference is that the second one have to pay 400,000,000 ISK more than the Dreadpilot. Why that? The Dreadpilot can fly all ships of his prefered race up to BS. The Rorqual can only fly a Covetor
AFU Convoy	Posted - 2007.08.29 11:37:00 - [598] Originally by: Gazanz After reading through this forum I think it is great the changes that have been made and thanks CCP. However 4 jetcans per hours is not enough, I do 1 can per 20minutes so it compresses just faster then what I mine at with 1 Hulk. Please advise? Thanks This ship is not wearth purchasing if it can't keep up with 4 maxed out hulks. A real pity,since it has some real nice features as well as was something to look out for for maxed out hulk/Miningforeman characters. If it supports only 4 mediocre covetors,than you might as well not mine. Than there way more lucrative things in eve without risking so much value. I truely hope CCP will fix this inconvenience. And will let this ship truely be for the more advanced miner that has the best equipment/skills. And that the Rorqual will be supporting that and nothing less.
Chruker	Posted - 2007.08.29 12:21:00 - [599] Originally by: Borgholio After looking at the finalized numbers, it appears that the ORE ship can compress four jetcans of ore per hour. That's the same output as two mining barges. Changes need to be made so that the ORE ship can handle a more reasonable amount of barges...say between 4 - 6? Can you put your math in here? My math is saying between 12 and 20 cargo loads per hour. And a cargoload is up to 68000 m3. ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Speedup IGB table rendering
Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.29 17:36:00 - [600] Edited by: Borgholio on 29/08/2007 17:38:17 Edited by: Borgholio on 29/08/2007 17:37:22 Originally by: Chruker Originally by: Borgholio After looking at the finalized numbers, it appears that the ORE ship can compress four jetcans of ore per hour. That's the same output as two mining barges. Changes need to be made so that the ORE ship can handle a more reasonable amount of barges...say between 4 - 6? Can you put your math in here? My math is saying between 12 and 20 cargo loads per hour. And a cargoload is up to 68000 m3. Okay....this'll teach me to do math when I'm half asleep. I forgot Arkonor was 16m3 per unit. I was going by 1m3 per unit. :-/ Let's see what we get when I do the math PROPERLY 1 jetcan = 1718 units of arkonor 1000 units of arkonor per compression cycle = 1.718 cycles per jetcan 1 minute per cycle = 1.718 minutes per jetcan 2 assembly lines in the ship = 0.859 minutes per jetcan overall So less than one minute per jetcan if you take into account both assembly lines. That's much better than my old numbers. How many hulks can it support then, I wonder? Assuming 1.1km3 per laser per minute, 25 minutes per jetcan per hulk. Soo.... Hulk = 25 min / jetcan ORE = .859 min / jetcan 25 / 0.859 = 29.1 So the ORE ship can compress enough ore to keep up with 29 hulks give or take. Someone care to check my math on that? It seems just as outrageous as my last equation. :) ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!
ByFstugan Northern Shadowrunners FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.29 19:54:00 - [601] Originally by: AFU Convoy This ship is not wearth purchasing if it can't keep up with 4 maxed out hulks. A real pity,since it has some real nice features as well as was something to look out for for maxed out hulk/Miningforeman characters. If it supports only 4 mediocre covetors,than you might as well not mine. Than there way more lucrative things in eve without risking so much value. I truely hope CCP will fix this inconvenience. And will let this ship truely be for the more advanced miner that has the best equipment/skills. And that the Rorqual will be supporting that and nothing less. Indeed this ship MUST be able to work at least as fast as 4 maxed Hulks, I can't see one good reason a ship of this type and price should be able to support like a gang of Retrievers. Is this ship made for n00bs, then that could be acceptable - but it isn't a n00bship, is it? Let's face it, the ship is supposed to help the logistics when mining, and if the ship can't handle the compression there will be one of two ways as I see it: 1) A gang goes to mine supported with a Rorqual, the Rorqual compress some of the ore, but most has to be transported uncompressed since it otherwise pile up to much... ...so... 2) the only alternativ would be for the Rorqual to stay in belt alone (without the barges) about twice the time the miners where there to compress the ore. Otherwise it has to (as in 1) be hauled uncompressed. Now, for the love of God, did CCP think when they "balanced" a ship like this? I still haven't done the math, but if it's like those above states this is ridiculous. And when the math is done I can't see it enough to make this ship only be able to speed up to what 4 Hulks could mine, it must be able to compress ore from much larger number of barges. I should be able to be a usefull (and it's not now) support for a corp, not only to one player and his alts and maybe his friend. I wonder if CCP can say something in this matterm since it's critical for this ships function and I don't recall they made any comment here about this. _______________________________ The wise knows what he knows not.
ByFstugan Northern Shadowrunners FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.29 20:02:00 - [602] Originally by: Borgholio Edited by: Borgholio on 29/08/2007 17:38:17 Edited by: Borgholio on 29/08/2007 17:37:22 Originally by: Chruker Originally by: Borgholio After looking at the finalized numbers, it appears that the ORE ship can compress four jetcans of ore per hour. That's the same output as two mining barges. Changes need to be made so that the ORE ship can handle a more reasonable amount of barges...say between 4 - 6? Can you put your math in here? My math is saying between 12 and 20 cargo loads per hour. And a cargoload is up to 68000 m3. Okay....this'll teach me to do math when I'm half asleep. I forgot Arkonor was 16m3 per unit. I was going by 1m3 per unit. :-/ Let's see what we get when I do the math PROPERLY 1 jetcan = 1718 units of arkonor 1000 units of arkonor per compression cycle = 1.718 cycles per jetcan 1 minute per cycle = 1.718 minutes per jetcan 2 assembly lines in the ship = 0.859 minutes per jetcan overall So less than one minute per jetcan if you take into account both assembly lines. That's much better than my old numbers. How many hulks can it support then, I wonder? Assuming 1.1km3 per laser per minute, 25 minutes per jetcan per hulk. Soo.... Hulk = 25 min / jetcan ORE = .859 min / jetcan 25 / 0.859 = 29.1 So the ORE ship can compress enough ore to keep up with 29 hulks give or take. Someone care to check my math on that? It seems just as outrageous as my last equation. :) Hmmm... perhaps my last posts are out of line then, since as I said they where made on the criteria that former math were correct. Since I don't have the energy to do the math here I'll just wanna point out that Hulks are capable of mining much faster than your math here. With a Exhumer 4, Mining Foreman 4 and a +3% implant I mine 1555m3 per minute with my Hulk, and that is without any mining director bonus or mindlink implant bonues that with the Rorquals extra bonus can boost this even more. Perhaps someone more advanced miner can say what a peaked Hulk with all gang bonuses and linkbonuses can give, and then that should be the number to use. _______________________________ The wise knows what he knows not.
Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.29 20:20:00 - [603] Ok, well using your hulk numbers... Hulk = 17.7 minutes per jetcan ORE = .859 min / jetcan 17.7 / 0.859 = 20.6 So with your numbers, it works out to be about 20 hulks. That's still good. ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!
ByFstugan Northern Shadowrunners FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.30 00:55:00 - [604] Originally by: Borgholio Ok, well using your hulk numbers... Hulk = 17.7 minutes per jetcan ORE = .859 min / jetcan 17.7 / 0.859 = 20.6 So with your numbers, it works out to be about 20 hulks. That's still good. To be lazy again I simply assume your math is correct, and in that case it sounds as a good number of Hulks it can assist. So no more complains from me in this matter then :) _______________________________ The wise knows what he knows not.
Lougra Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.30 08:23:00 - [605] Edited by: Lougra on 30/08/2007 08:23:42 Originally by: ByFstugan Originally by: Borgholio Edited by: Borgholio on 29/08/2007 17:38:17 Edited by: Borgholio on 29/08/2007 17:37:22 Originally by: Chruker Originally by: Borgholio After looking at the finalized numbers, it appears that the ORE ship can compress four jetcans of ore per hour. That's the same output as two mining barges. Changes need to be made so that the ORE ship can handle a more reasonable amount of barges...say between 4 - 6? Can you put your math in here? My math is saying between 12 and 20 cargo loads per hour. And a cargoload is up to 68000 m3. Okay....this'll teach me to do math when I'm half asleep. I forgot Arkonor was 16m3 per unit. I was going by 1m3 per unit. :-/ Let's see what we get when I do the math PROPERLY 1 jetcan = 1718 units of arkonor 1000 units of arkonor per compression cycle = 1.718 cycles per jetcan 1 minute per cycle = 1.718 minutes per jetcan 2 assembly lines in the ship = 0.859 minutes per jetcan overall So less than one minute per jetcan if you take into account both assembly lines. That's much better than my old numbers. How many hulks can it support then, I wonder? Assuming 1.1km3 per laser per minute, 25 minutes per jetcan per hulk. Soo.... Hulk = 25 min / jetcan ORE = .859 min / jetcan 25 / 0.859 = 29.1 So the ORE ship can compress enough ore to keep up with 29 hulks give or take. Someone care to check my math on that? It seems just as outrageous as my last equation. :) Hmmm... perhaps my last posts are out of line then, since as I said they where made on the criteria that former math were correct. Since I don't have the energy to do the math here I'll just wanna point out that Hulks are capable of mining much faster than your math here. With a Exhumer 4, Mining Foreman 4 and a +3% implant I mine 1555m3 per minute with my Hulk, and that is without any mining director bonus or mindlink implant bonues that with the Rorquals extra bonus can boost this even more. Perhaps someone more advanced miner can say what a peaked Hulk with all gang bonuses and linkbonuses can give, and then that should be the number to use. About the bonus on links take a look of what i said in previous page. I very doubt if the actual benefit (at link) of the ship in at lvl 5 can be greater than 3 secs totaly. Carebear is the surname that you got, if you enjoy to play eve, in other way than the rest want YOU to play it.
RuNr	Posted - 2007.09.01 10:59:00 - [606] Don't know if that has been asked before but I'd like to know why this capital has only 800K space in it's ship array. Who would start an mining Op with this baby in industial mode only with 4 hulks?? 8-10 Mining ships sound much more reasonable to me...
Altrisra	Posted - 2007.09.01 21:06:00 - [607] Edited by: Altrisra on 01/09/2007 21:08:15 Originally by: RuNr Don't know if that has been asked before but I'd like to know why this capital has only 800K space in it's ship array. Who would start an mining Op with this baby in industial mode only with 4 hulks?? 8-10 Mining ships sound much more reasonable to me... RuNr, any larger of a run and the op would garner attention. Knowing the malitious(sp) players out there, a mining run of 8 hulks or even worse, covetors, would be much too apatizing to resist. you would have every pirate in the region bearing down on your operation. as is this is going to be a great target. i have friends who love nothing better, sick as they are, to hit a large mining op, and by large i mean 7 plus ships including guards, with 5 HACs guns blazing. I believe ccp made that limitation very smartly. on youtube search "raven bomb" for a prime example.
Alteris Domond	Posted - 2007.09.02 00:58:00 - [608] Edited by: Alteris Domond on 02/09/2007 00:59:21 Originally by: DreamWizard well from what i read , CCP again falls short on demand, can this platform even mine, does it mine faster than a HULK with mining ugrades, ? again CCP ignores the lone wolf, ( not in a corp, ( for CCP) ) this ship is only good to large corps ( like B.O.B. (which has developers support and involvement). This ship is totally usless to 50% or more of the general subscribers and a response from CCP woulg greatly be Appreciated DreamWizard Dream as it has been said before, this is a capital ship in support of a GANG. saying that, it kinda nails your question on the head. I am not evening a miner but using this in my smaller corp operations will make it worth it for smaller corps to venture into 0.0 for brief periods. with the alliances and pirates controling major vectors into most of 0.0. it makes it harder and harder to get established out there, espeacially for a smaller industrial or mining corp. Such is the nature of the beast. this is a stepping stone to allowing them to hop in and out of 0.0 and make a profit from those ores. without fear of losing 4 hulks and their hauler, and possibly a freigter at a gate camp trying to get into the system.
Smyghe	Posted - 2007.09.02 03:32:00 - [609] Originally by: Altrisra Edited by: Altrisra on 01/09/2007 21:08:15 Originally by: RuNr Don't know if that has been asked before but I'd like to know why this capital has only 800K space in it's ship array. Who would start an mining Op with this baby in industial mode only with 4 hulks?? 8-10 Mining ships sound much more reasonable to me... RuNr, any larger of a run and the op would garner attention. Knowing the malitious(sp) players out there, a mining run of 8 hulks or even worse, covetors, would be much too apatizing to resist. you would have every pirate in the region bearing down on your operation. as is this is going to be a great target. i have friends who love nothing better, sick as they are, to hit a large mining op, and by large i mean 7 plus ships including guards, with 5 HACs guns blazing. I believe ccp made that limitation very smartly. on youtube search "raven bomb" for a prime example. So, basically you mean that a gang of pirates probably wouldn't notice, or not engage even if they notice, a Rorqual and four Hulks since it not tempting enough or doesn¦t send out enough signals of "we are here come and take us". But if you add in 4 Hulks more, then there will be a magical signal from that belt and system saying "we are here, dinner is served". I bet U are wrong and that they would enter and engage as much even without the Rorqual, and with only one Hulk instead of four or eight.
Altrisra	Posted - 2007.09.02 09:02:00 - [610] tru. very true. But most pies i do know truly like hitting larger targets. and all this math got me thinking since this ship can fit 6 hi slots, 1 used for clone bays and 1 for gang assist, that leaves only 4 for tractors. now asuming ur a fair distance, half of the 200 km range, ur still going to have your hands full pulling in cans from multiple hulks, esecially if they r mining in different parts of a belt
Chewy Bond The Company	Posted - 2007.09.10 19:00:00 - [611] Why the Mining and Mining Barge skill prereqs? It's not a mining ship. Astrogeology makes sense considering what it does. Metallurgy would almost make sense (except we're dealing with ore here, not minerals). Industrial would even make sense since it's a "Capital Industrial Ship." Mining and Mining Barge just don't make any sense to me though. I know they're only rank 1 and rank 4 skills, but if we could shorten that training que at all, I know I'd appreciate it. My Rorqual pilot would be a Damnation pilot (someone with Mining Director already) who's losing his laser bonuses in this same patch and has no missile skills or previous intention of switching from CS to a Capital. So Mining and Mining Barge for him are just two more useless skills on a very long list of huge training time waste. Seperate question that maybe I just missed the answer to: Is the Rorqual going to be buildable/dockable at stations like the Dread and Carrier, or too big like the Mom and Titan?
Thorbjorn Brundtland PezCo - Ice Services Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.09.14 07:53:00 - [612] Originally by: CCP Chronotis <snip> Where can the rorqual be built? same places as carriers and dreadnoughts, low sec stations, large ship assembly arrays, outposts. Quote: Recently, I tried to activate two different gang bonus links -- laser cycle time reduction and laser range increase. I was prevented from starting a second one at any time. I guess that's intended? I thought it can fit 3 gang links Any ideas?
Lougra Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.14 21:06:00 - [613] Just fit one command processor in med slot and you will be able to operate one additional Link. Carebear is the surname that you got, if you enjoy to play eve, in other way than the rest want YOU to play it.
paracidic Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.09.17 11:08:00 - [614] I have one now, but for the life of me I can't figure out how to load the compression bays etc. Anyone give some advise on this? Thanks *********************************************** How could they know what we are going to do? We have no idea what we are going to do.
Thorbjorn Brundtland PezCo - Ice Services Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.09.17 11:38:00 - [615] Originally by: CCP Chronotis <snip> Quote: Still no word on the base number of gang link mods it can run? 3 Originally by: Lougra Just fit one command processor in med slot and you will be able to operate one additional Link. As Chronotis said 3 links are already possible. So, does this mean that Rorqual can fit 3 links but can only use one link at any given time? And only Commandships, Motherships and Titans can fit/use more than one Link without a command processor?
25ToLife	Posted - 2007.09.18 16:43:00 - [616] Originally by: Borgholio Okay....this'll teach me to do math when I'm half asleep. I forgot Arkonor was 16m3 per unit. I was going by 1m3 per unit. :-/ Let's see what we get when I do the math PROPERLY 1 jetcan = 1718 units of arkonor 1000 units of arkonor per compression cycle = 1.718 cycles per jetcan 1 minute per cycle = 1.718 minutes per jetcan 2 assembly lines in the ship = 0.859 minutes per jetcan overall So less than one minute per jetcan if you take into account both assembly lines. That's much better than my old numbers. How many hulks can it support then, I wonder? Assuming 1.1km3 per laser per minute, 25 minutes per jetcan per hulk. Soo.... Hulk = 25 min / jetcan ORE = .859 min / jetcan 25 / 0.859 = 29.1 So the ORE ship can compress enough ore to keep up with 29 hulks give or take. Someone care to check my math on that? It seems just as outrageous as my last equation. :) What about Dark Glitter? As far as I can tell from the blueprint, it compresses 1 unit of DG per minute. Assuming 1 Mack would mine 4 DG in 5 minutes (=1.25 minute per unit; can be shorter with proper skills), 1 assembly line would hardly be able to keep up with 1 Mack. So 1 Rorqual would hardly be able to keep up with 2-3 Mack's maximum? What am I missing here? 25ToLife
Adm Tecumseh Caldari The Templars Knights	Posted - 2007.09.19 07:52:00 - [617] Edited by: Adm Tecumseh on 19/09/2007 07:52:24 Originally by: 25ToLife What about Dark Glitter? As far as I can tell from the blueprint, it compresses 1 unit of DG per minute. Assuming 1 Mack would mine 4 DG in 5 minutes (=1.25 minute per unit; can be shorter with proper skills), 1 assembly line would hardly be able to keep up with 1 Mack. So 1 Rorqual would hardly be able to keep up with 2-3 Mack's maximum? What am I missing here? 25ToLife From my personal experience the rorqual cannot kep up with 1 mackinaw, and coupled with the fact that it cost so much to run the industrial core it is not worth compressing the ice. YOu basically need a cargo hold full of heavy water to feed the industrial core. And you can only fit 19 ice in the the assembly array as you can only fit 19 ice into your cargo hold. I cannot figure out how to load more then that and ccp seems to be not very interested in supplying the answers. Help channel is full of isk sellers and what not so atm I have gotten help figuring this out from absolutely no one. I know crap about how to use this ship atm but judging from what I am seeing and hearing I am eve's formost expert on the rorqual. I would really like to speak with other rorqual owners to see if we can't get some sort of a guide made to help people out.
Syberbolt8 Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2007.09.25 11:55:00 - [618] How about this, alot of people are talking about making it safer for barges with a pos sheild, though the idea is nice, I like mine better. Why not add a 2nd highslot mod that run off strat, like pos's in reinforced, it could have its own storage bay, this mod when activated would create a bubble say 10k around the ship, with witch only indy and mining barges could enter. Instead of making it so you cant target ships through this sheild, why not have the sheild give a resist bonus, or make it set the resists of all ships inside to a static 85% or something like that, the bubble cant be operated within 30k of any roids,anchored cans, and other nonplayer controled objects and the sheilds 2nd bonus is a 300% bonus to gangs strip miner range. this way they can stay in the bubble and still mine, this sheild also would only be able to operate if you are in platform mode, that way you cant fly around with a bub up knocking ppl all over the place, just a though, I konw its been releesed but the 2nd mod would me its an add on not a change. would give ppl a huge reason to feild this ship in the belt instead of keeping it at a pos like a ore compressing array. ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Industry Director Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Meninha	Posted - 2007.09.27 12:51:00 - [619] Serveral questions and thoughts (copied) - Gang Modul Nerv, everyone is talking about... As i believe, the nerve will come, and IMHO, it makes sence... why should a Gang leader give gang boni to his squad, or even WIng, spreaded through a whole system... but if that nerve comes, what sence makes any Gang boni the ship is giving? like this, the ship will always be parked on POS So there has to be found a way to park it in a belt. Ok, we all know it is quite a bit dangerous. But let us build up a situation... U Place the ship in some belt. duraton is, if i got it right, 300.000,00 ms ... makes 300sec, makes 5 minutes. in that 5 minutes u have to scan all the containers, pull em near, scoop em in, .. only in that 5 minutes, u get the gang boni. Ok, other ppl would say - why dont u leave the ship in teh belt? Simple answer... o.o is, and will stay pvp area... even deep in ally Space, u still stay beeing a traget... what to do against it? Scouts, for sure... ok, who many scouts are needed? hm, who many systems u wanan secure? Dont forget, 5 minutes can be DAMM long time. Some good gangs fly around 100 jumps in 1hour.. makes around 8 jumps in 5 minutes... 8 jumps, an that in SERVERAL Directions! Everyone living in o.o knows, that a situation like that need quite a lot scouts! But ok, lets imagine we have a nice one-way system... or a Pipe... Did anyone read updates what is gonna come on Rev3? Recon BS, and way more mays to JUMP IN Ppl! So, there might log someone in, within 8 systems... (even 18 -2 where the scouts are, makes 16 systems that have to be covered with a scout each!) ok, then u tell the ppl, hey, its a capital, it can defend itself... can it really? ok, it might be able to defend agains a small gang.... but how small u think gangs are gonna be, when BS can Cloak, open Jumpsways? That ship wont have a chance at all... Its gonna be the most wanted target in Eve !!!! The industrial mode cant be compared to dread mode... its simply not the same. This ship is not ment to be guarded by a fleet, like dreads at POS war are. its a INDUSTRIAL SHIP, for MINERS, keep that in mind! Its not ment to be covert by damm lot of scouts, and its not build for tanking gangs. ok, it has Boni to drones, but 300m3 dronebay? u cant load fighters..so u have to skill all drones And 50% range for shield transportes... shieldtransportes, Hello? what to usem em for? All i can imagine is boosting barges! ok, why the hell should it boost barges? Is it now ment to stay in a belt? why should any barge get aggro? if u place a capital into a belt, staying there, u should also be able using it as the tank. So what is that boni good for in any way? If u go to o.o systems mining, the Pilots normaly fly Hulks.. and a hulk can tank quite some dps! even if lowslots are loaded with mining upgradesII. And mining drones are still "useless", so some more shield dones inside, and the hulks dont need a tank at all, and never ever need to be boosted... ok, that there might be the argument that it can boost the hulks if some gang warps in... dammed, anyone really believes one single hulk stays inside the belt, if anything blobs in local? and even if a Pilot does that, (and IMHO, he then deserves to be poded), which gangleader would ever, EVER call the hulk Primary? i dont think, that the skillplan for that ship is to hard.. ok, maybe some useless skill is that u have to learn MIning barge.. but that aint a problem.. I think, that this ship is ment to be a - stay in belt ship for lowsecs, but u could only put it in belts at highsec, all other is - short or long, suicide! Refering to what we know from rev3, and already from the possibiltys gangs/pvp guys already have, the system of that ship needs to be changed. Here some possible changes that might make the ship intresting: - Lower Duration of industrialcore ( maybe by skill, also lowering consumption to keep time/Consumption balance) - or make it imune to EW -or ad a "Emergency warp Possibilit
Meninha	Posted - 2007.09.27 12:52:00 - [620] If u dont give the ship the possbility to leave belts faster, or saver, the whole system of that capital makes no sence at all. it only makes sence as a "transport capital", but even therefore the need will fall in next month rapidly, as jumpbridges make it eays for Frighters to travel long distances realy save... and pumping up defence? Why, its an industrial, not a combat capital... I really appreciate that CCP as spend way more attention to mining then before, and the basic idea is really, really great. But the way it is in the moment, this ship is nothing els like a big huge target without chance of doing its job the way its ones was ment to be.... Ok, so far for my oppinion... think about it pll, mininer-friends, and specially CCP-Devs... Greetings Meninha
Syberbolt8 Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2007.09.29 23:27:00 - [621] I understand what your saying, but as all cap ships it will have to have a fleet to support it, even assuming the guards protecting it do bit the big one, it can still tank 5 or so BSs. Now with the forcefeild idea, only indy and mining barges would be able to enter, now unless you think thats a good way to fight then great GL, indy ships and barges will never see a day when they are in main stream battle. They might be forced to fight, but will never be willing to enter combat lightly. The idea of boosting the tank with this force feild is to keep the barges safer from pvpers not NPCs you cant tell me the hulks would be safe, and no they may not get called primary but they could still end up scramed to keep them there, most gangs have more then one scram. At least with the force feild there stats are alot higher, and idk about you but I wouldnt fit sheild rep drones in 0.0, always fit med combat drones, now think of this 4 hulks with 5 med drones each, plus a cap indy with 5 heavys thats 20 meds and 5 heavys with the dmg of 10 heavys, that swarm can easly take out a BS, quickly. and if anything this might get the hulks targeted and killed just to drop there drone control, this would enable the indy cap ship to be feilded with light defense maybe a carrier and a few BSs and still do its job, and most pirates would still attack and try to win. No this isnt a combat ship, but it is a ship design with 0.0 and lowsec dangers in mind, and with the safer and effective mining in mind, the hulks have defense in mind when there where relased so would you argue that they shouldnt have been because they where ment for mining and not combat? This is a great ship, and the force feild gives good reason to keep it in belt, it being effected by the feild as well, would have a much better tank assumeing you can fuel the mod, there is no reason this ship and 4 hulks couldnt last at least till backup arrived and even take a few targets out as well, plus in 0.0 there isnt always some place for the hulks to go, you might not have a pos in the area, remember this ship can jump into systems and clone ppl down, so there isnt a real need for a pos nearby. and safe spots arnt as safe as they used to be. I believe this would balance the risk vs the reward of putting this ship into a belt, making pirates think twice about attacking, or at least making them amass a larger force to take out the mining op easy. plus excluding the fact that the shild would help, lets assume that the hulks can run away to a pos, Chronotis already said the ship can be cloaked in platform mode, so that means the hulks warp away and the cap ship cloaks, and WOW they cant scan you out. it would be utter luck if they just so happend to warp into a belt and fly just the right way to run into your cloak feild. very unlikly. Cheers ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Co-CEO Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Myty CZ	Posted - 2007.10.11 18:28:00 - [622] There can be done very easy way how to improve surviving ror in 0,0 change siege mode from 5 min to 2-1 min 1) if enemy come and have probe he mostly can found you fast it take some time to align and warp out so you die 2) if you use scout you will get enought time to run away best solution i think forget ideas with force field or you will see ror in battlefield and 20+ gan under ror forcefield kiling smal gang of bs (i have seen how few indy ship each with nos and smal gun and full of EW kill bs+hac they didnt have chance)
Dirkmorfeld	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:29:00 - [623] just a short question. is there anythink planed, to get the rorqual to compress more ice? it take 48 sekends to compress one ice. it has 2 compression lines. that meens it need 96 sekends to handel toe output of one mack of 220 seconds. that meens it can only handel 2.3 macks. and that is quiet low for a ship that cost 2 bill. 6-8 mack would be the number i would suggest.
Razer Morphis Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.23 17:46:00 - [624] Originally by: Dirkmorfeld just a short question. is there anythink planed, to get the rorqual to compress more ice? it take 48 sekends to compress one ice. it has 2 compression lines. that meens it need 96 sekends to handel toe output of one mack of 220 seconds. that meens it can only handel 2.3 macks. and that is quiet low for a ship that cost 2 bill. 6-8 mack would be the number i would suggest. Can you rephrase your question.. in English? ----------------------
Syberbolt8 Gallente soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2007.10.24 14:35:00 - [625] Edited by: Syberbolt8 on 24/10/2007 14:36:40 Originally by: Razer Morphis Originally by: Dirkmorfeld just a short question. is there anythink planed, to get the rorqual to compress more ice? it take 48 sekends to compress one ice. it has 2 compression lines. that meens it need 96 sekends to handel toe output of one mack of 220 seconds. that meens it can only handel 2.3 macks. and that is quiet low for a ship that cost 2 bill. 6-8 mack would be the number i would suggest. Can you rephrase your question.. in English? I don't know seems to make sense to me, maybe you just want something to whine about in this forum for lack of anything better to do, He wants to know if there is anything planed to get the rorqual to compress more ice. seems simple to read to me. He then go's on to say what it does now, witch is: It take 48 seconds to compress one unit of ice. it has 2 compression lines. that means it need 96 seconds to handle the output of one mack of 220 seconds. that means it can only handle 2.3 mackinaws. and that is quiet low for a ship that cost 2 bill. 6-8 mackinaw would be the number i would suggest. I hope you really didn't need this, but just for you, still made sense to me though, was in English just not perfect spelling, give the guy a break. Edit: fix short hand IE: idk to I don't know, also corrected the spelling on mackinaw ------------------------------------ Soni-Corp Co-CEO Start a fire for a man, he stays warm for a day. Catch a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Vaari Amarr Imperial Pharmacy	Posted - 2007.10.30 17:15:00 - [626] I cannot find andy production line from my rorqual, IPS Manufacturia. It is in industrial mode, it has required amount of ore and required bp, i also have skills to compress ore. Problem is i cannot find any production line when i klick BPO--->manufacturing--->pic installation. I have tried all combinations, but i still cannot find any lines. Ship is in industrial mode. How i can find line? This beginning. This birth of life. This dawn of greatness. I can not fail, for I have the Emperor to lead me and destiny to follow. undefined
Rayjan	Posted - 2007.12.31 04:53:00 - [627] a two way trip as implied would be desireable for clones. when you say the ship has jump clones and didn't specify and thus misled. Loosing valuable training time each op is a substantial penalty
Rexthor Hammerfists Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.31 10:59:00 - [628] The Rorqual is only allowed to store industrial ships, such as Barges or Haulers in its shipbay. Now i understand this made sence when they first came out, as you were able to haul as many ships as a Mothership for a fraction of its price with it. But now trinity has arrived and the restriction still stands, even tho the Carriers and Motherships ability to carry ships has been vastly increased. I dont see what harm allowing Rorquals to carry combat ships would do now, since Carriers can carry the same amount of ships and jump further at the same time then the Rorqual. The Carriers and Rorquals roles would with that change still not interfere at all as i see it. A ccp reply to this would be very appreciated. -
Syberbolt8 Gallente The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.08 18:49:00 - [629] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists The Rorqual is only allowed to store industrial ships, such as Barges or Haulers in its shipbay. Now i understand this made sence when they first came out, as you were able to haul as many ships as a Mothership for a fraction of its price with it. But now trinity has arrived and the restriction still stands, even tho the Carriers and Motherships ability to carry ships has been vastly increased. I dont see what harm allowing Rorquals to carry combat ships would do now, since Carriers can carry the same amount of ships and jump further at the same time then the Rorqual. The Carriers and Rorquals roles would with that change still not interfere at all as i see it. A ccp reply to this would be very appreciated. There is no need to allow this ship to carry combat ships, If combat support didn't escort the cyno ship then you could always jump in a carrier with it. This is an industrial ship, and should stay that way.
Lil Mule	Posted - 2008.01.15 00:31:00 - [630] Sorry for reviving a dead thread, but I thought I would ask here as I dont see anything in ships/modules (and I posted once before for a Rorqual fitting) Anyhoo I dont currently own a Rorqual, but I am thinking about buying one, but I had some questions before I did so, and Im hoping someone who has purchased, and is using a Rorqual can answer my questions: 1)Do you find the ship to be a valuable purchase? If so why? 2)Do you actually use the Rorqual for mining or simply for hauling? 3)With the introduction of HACtors or HIC's, does this not increase the vulnerability of the Rorqual in 0.0? 4)When you do utilize the Rorqual for a mining op, how many support vessels do you also field? (I'd like to get an ISK/per player/per hour break down, if you can tell me how many people you have for support, or on stand by should you be attacked). 5)How long will it take you to re-coup your losses of purchasing the Rorqual? 6)Do you actually put the Rorqual in a belt, or do you park it at a temporary POS? Thanks to anyone who can answer those questions! LM
SmokeTheFly Caldari Templar Republic R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.01.19 21:50:00 - [631] It just seems that rorq pilots will be the new POS ***es and that the rorq cannot do that what it was intended to(sit in the belt). Still waiting for that mining cap ship or at least something that does not need faction mods to tank 0.0 if its a new hulk or soso. I dont see the big deal about it really, being able to use 6 lasers on the rorq would be awesome not to mention risky as hell :) I dont know the reason behind the lack of miner love in this game but its really starting to take the **.
Syberbolt8 Gallente The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.25 17:01:00 - [632] Originally by: Lil Mule Sorry for reviving a dead thread, but I thought I would ask here as I dont see anything in ships/modules (and I posted once before for a Rorqual fitting) Anyhoo I dont currently own a Rorqual, but I am thinking about buying one, but I had some questions before I did so, and Im hoping someone who has purchased, and is using a Rorqual can answer my questions: 1)Do you find the ship to be a valuable purchase? If so why? 2)Do you actually use the Rorqual for mining or simply for hauling? 3)With the introduction of HACtors or HIC's, does this not increase the vulnerability of the Rorqual in 0.0? 4)When you do utilize the Rorqual for a mining op, how many support vessels do you also field? (I'd like to get an ISK/per player/per hour break down, if you can tell me how many people you have for support, or on stand by should you be attacked). 5)How long will it take you to re-coup your losses of purchasing the Rorqual? 6)Do you actually put the Rorqual in a belt, or do you park it at a temporary POS? Thanks to anyone who can answer those questions! LM I don't own one either, but assumeing you get one and want to use it in belt where you dont have a pos near by this is the setup I would use, its 1/2 active 1/2 passive but provides for a great tank with the booster on, and a tank that would make most battleship tanks look bad when the booster is off. You can't perma run the remote rep, but I would tank with this ship then move the barges in, you can passivly tank any rats that show up with just the hardeners running. [Rorqual, ice3] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Capital Shield Booster I Capital Shield Transporter I Capital Tractor Beam I Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization Medium Remote Armor Repair System II Clone Vat Bay I Industrial Core I Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I 699 sheilds passive reped at 30% with hardeners only 3540 sheilds per sec after running booster with hardeners. (874 rep with the booster running, w/o resists taken into account.) As far as if this ship is worth owning? If your a med to small corp in a small alliance that can afford to support this ship with a 4 or 5 BS's or maybe 1 or 2 carriers and 2 BSs, and a few anti support, and you do not own your own 0.0 or lowsec space, then yes, its worth it in the fact that you can mine into it and easily transport the ore to a station to refine. Now in a larger alliance its good for putting extenders on it, and cargo rigs and calling it a mini jump freighter with teeth. but if you own your own space it has only limited uses, I couldn't see the need for it in my corp as we have pos's all over the place, and own space that makes moving ore easy, and much more cost effective to use freighters and Jump bridges. Despite the costs, it really is more usefull for small and med size corps and alliances then it is for large alliances.
Montaire Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.08 07:02:00 - [633] Bumping this thread because something is wrong with our beloved ship. The 5% yield bonus needs to be looked at. Right now there difference between a Battlecruiser and this behemoth of industry in terms of bonus's is hardly perceptible - even at Cap Industrial 5. The Rorqual is seeing most of its use as a logistics ship, carting its 120k m3 around 0.0. With the fixes to Jump Freighters I'd like to see this go away. Replace its current logistics utility with some serious and real mining bonus's. A + Yield bonus would be great. Capital Tractors - These are fantastic at long range, but when it comes to the last 6-3k for some reason they slow way, way down. Can this be looked into? It takes twice as long to tractor it from 3500m to 1500m as it does to get it from 200k away to 3k away. Something is off here. Finally ICE. The Rorqual is perhaps most at home on humongous mining operations. You dont see this often because asteroids pop so fast, even in deep 0.0 (make roids bigger!) - where you do see huge operations is on Ice. Alliances must have Ice products and Ice is basically limitless. And yet the Rorqual compression cant keep up with even 2 Mackinaw's. Something needs to be done in this regard. ~Monty

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2008.02.14 17:38:00 - [634] We have high hopes to bring automated compression in for the rorqual in the future (no eta) which will fix ice along the way since we would need to rescale units from many to one to one to one. As for the mining bonus, we are looking into other options beyond a gang bonus such as a targeted bonus of sorts and also other new options like the forcefield if it can be implemented in an ok way, though these are ideas we are just throwing around currently. In short, its never far from our minds to look again at the ships role in the future alongside all of the capital ships and other factors such as resource distribution but certainly in 1.1 the tractor beam should behave a little more better and come enough to scoop though we need fixes to our destiny physics engine to make the tractor beams behave properly and I am hoping by summer we can get automated compression if it looks promising and is ok to put in.

Montaire Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.14 18:57:00 - [635] Chronotis, I appreciate the reply. Instead of compression has an incredibly large Ore only cargobay been thought of ? There is no functional difference between 20:1 compression and an 'Ore Bay' that holds 2 million M3 of only ore. If you are looking for a collaborative process I think that you could post to the Starbases and Industry forum and get some great feedback. Please let us know when some development time gets set aside for this, and I am 100% confidant we can provide you with useful feedback and ideas. Originally by: CCP Chronotis We have high hopes to bring automated compression in for the rorqual in the future (no eta) which will fix ice along the way since we would need to rescale units from many to one to one to one. As for the mining bonus, we are looking into other options beyond a gang bonus such as a targeted bonus of sorts and also other new options like the forcefield if it can be implemented in an ok way, though these are ideas we are just throwing around currently. In short, its never far from our minds to look again at the ships role in the future alongside all of the capital ships and other factors such as resource distribution but certainly in 1.1 the tractor beam should behave a little more better and come enough to scoop though we need fixes to our destiny physics engine to make the tractor beams behave properly and I am hoping by summer we can get automated compression if it looks promising and is ok to put in.
Tehopenee	Posted - 2008.02.14 22:35:00 - [636] a new mining cap ship for the miners--way cool. Too bad you wont see many of them. I wonder how come we never see anything for what will be used. How about some ninja mining type stuff? Im not a main stream miner but with all the empty low sec and 00 space systems how about a miner that can survive and make it in and out of those areas without needing a ton of help? Seems to be lots of guys who like doing things by themselves -- bigger is cool-- how about something to open the areas no one can use all that much. :)
Ford Hakata Hakata Group	Posted - 2008.02.15 00:02:00 - [637] Originally by: CCP Chronotis As for the mining bonus, we are looking into other options beyond a gang bonus such as a targeted bonus of sorts Nice idea! With autocompression, you could use the compression blueprints as basis for a gang bonus too! (Think of it as as making the capital into an ore analyzing platform which can give everyone in gang a decent bonus for mining just that one ore. (And with a little research, one could improve the bonus, or perhaps even "open up" for alternative bonuses? ) Originally by: CCP Chronotis and also other new options like the forcefield if it can be implemented in an ok way. I hope you do. Make the Rorq into a strategic tool - another kind of chess piece that can be used by alliances for establishing beach-heads in hostile space. Or as a temporary base of operation for explorative mining operations. Or as a short-term moon mining platform, when you just need a little of that rare moon mineral in order to produce those hard-to-make T3 items... A ship that can convert into a temporary micro-POS... --

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2008.02.15 13:43:00 - [638] Originally by: Montaire Instead of compression has an incredibly large Ore only cargobay been thought of ? it was and may still come in some form as an ore/moon product/drone compound hold separate from the main cargohold where we would look to increase its specialised capacity but reduce its general freight role perhaps. Again all this is just one of many ideas we are looking at which only really make sense when the big picture is considered. Quote: If you are looking for a collaborative process I think that you could post to the Starbases and Industry forum and get some great feedback. Feel free to start your own thread of course :), whilst my actual participation in the thread may vary, I will always keep an eye on the good ones.

Zarch AlDain The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2008.02.15 14:45:00 - [639] Originally by: Montaire Chronotis, I appreciate the reply. Instead of compression has an incredibly large Ore only cargobay been thought of ? There is no functional difference between 20:1 compression and an 'Ore Bay' that holds 2 million M3 of only ore. Yes there is. A rorqual can compress the ore then pass the compressed ores to haulers so the haulers can take it to a station the next system over. (For example). Zarch AlDain
Rastigan Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.21 13:40:00 - [640] Edited by: Rastigan on 21/02/2008 13:39:50 Originally by: CCP Chronotis but reduce its general freight role perhaps. I hope not by too much, this ship is pretty good at logistics.

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